Forum Post: Please consider this. everyone focused on 1 thing
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 4:23 p.m. EST by Chaotic
(35)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
All of these lists of demands (we want his, we want that) isn't going to get us anywhere! Get behind 1 demand and stick to it.
Get the money out of our political system! While I understand there are a lot of things involved in doing this, it remains the single most important goal that will affectively let us meet other goals.
Get the money out, get your voice and then be heard on all of the other issues.
With a watered down list, what we're going to wind up with is a "compromise" where 5 of 10 demands are met and we still have no voice.
Help keep the chaos to a minimum by staying on topic and of course DONT FEED THE TROLLS!
As a 60's Protestor, now Senior Citizen & Florida Supporter of OWS Manhattan may I suggest the following:
A 2nd offensive must be started, now that the weather will dwindle the numbers of outside participants. All citizens of conscience and support who work for corporate America (e.g., banking, big pharma, insurance, oil, police departments, political operatives, and any other major industry who impacts the quality of our lives) should start to divulge the "dirty little secrets of their bosses/industry" anonymously (e.g., deliberate and trained lies told to the public about products; violations of the law within their industry/company; cheating of the public with specific tactics; training designed to deceive the public, etc.).
We need to expose corporate America for who they really are...ONLY then will they start to bring some modicum of fair play to their dealings with the 99% of us. Much like http://wikileaks.org - JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS WILL ONLY COME BY EXPOSING THE WRONGS. It no longer is acceptable to say "I was just doing my job." If our supporters can understand this, all of the politicians and lobbyist in the country won't be able to stop this tide.
Here is an 8.5x11 .jpeg flyer for an article 5 convention that grapically communicates the complexity, over time, needed to address and end the secrecy we are immersed in.--
http://algoxy.com/poly/polyims/puzzle-flyer3.1yourstate.jpg
owsartist39 wrote: We need to expose corporate America for who they really are END----
I love the idea. One thing, where is the authority going to come from? How will you get media, the only way is to get commercial meaningfully sharing the truth. Accordingly, the authority to deal with media can only come from article 5 of the constitution.---
Comprehensive strategy for actually doing what you suggest.--- http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
Why should we have one demand? We need a Social Democratic Party, not a single demand.
OUT !
There are a huge number of great, well thought out, COMPLICATED ideas that will require a huge amount of "selling" and explanation" and will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple - that is popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
that 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons & have no personhood rights”
and
“money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)
If they could tie the left and right into a success -
WHY CAN'T WE??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.
5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.
A proposal at http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/
Please read this.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/socialize-pensions/
Yes. Yes. And Yes.
Some countries have gotten the money out of politics, but its changed nothing. Why? 'Cause the banks still control all of the resources.
There is only one way to manage all aspects in own life, it is to control it by yourself. If you let government continue to be your master, you are going to be a bagger for that and this FOREVER!
There are many posts on this... but they seem to fall on deaf ears. Here is a previous post. http://occupywallst.org/forum/objectives-for-ows-and-oks-occupy-k-street/
Chaotic wrote: Help keep the chaos to a minimum by staying on topic and of course DONT FEED THE TROLLS!END------
Excellent post, probably troll poison:) -
And make sure that thing covers everything. Artcle V of the US constitution has the authority to do it all and it is our FIRST constitutional right.
The government answers to corporations, interest groups backed by the 1%. That's who they make policy for.
Everything we've done so far to make the democratic process accessible over the course of our country's history has been undermined.
We can't address the wealth disparity with a government that facilitated it because 99% of Americans have no say in government policy.
Banking reform, tax reform, healthcare reform.. are UNATTAINABLE because every line of every bill passed has been AUCTIONED OFF!
Corporate person hood is the one and only obstacle to getting things done. Getting rid of it will be the window to changing America.
Why don't representatives vote for things a majority of the constituents want? Joke is on us because we're not the real constituents.
We (the people) alone should fund candidates so they answer to us!
OF the people. BY the people. FOR the people. Corporations are NOT people.
Basically, we need to demand Congress top reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933,which was the solution that ended the wide-spread corruption on Wall Street during the Great Depression by preventing banks and insurance companies from being one, which I feel is the root issue of how we got here. Please read this:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/
don't feed a troll, instead take this poll
on my blog
http://blog.richardkentgates.com/
or just the form
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&formkey=dFlNNHJTRlZwMWs5ZjlhTWN0NlZReHc6MQ#gid=0
That will never get republican leader support
This isn't going to get support from either side. It isn't a Repub vs Dem issue, they are ALL on the take.
You are correct. It is an absolute of human behavior that is in operation, and psychology APPEARS to be so NEGLIGENT, from their protected position in academia, that they have not produced the proper understanding. Really, it is not negligence, it is collusion.-----
Accordingly we do not know why Washington is doing what they are doing, we can only try to cope with our own alienation from one another and our fundamental human purposes and invoke an Article V convention to protect them, exactly as the constitution intends.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
I dont see many dems lining up to stop the flow of money. I'm not saying I like the repubs either, but good grief you can't get fooled in to thinking that any of them will solve this without being forced.
republicans have way more ties to the 1% and dems have supported from day one while republicans demonize the movement and do nothing OWS is not stupid
no OWS is not stupid, but you have to know that if there were nothing to gain there would be no dems either.
Agreeable!
committed to "Get the money out of our political system!"
Do you realize we need to see the ultimate form of democracy, we need to use our first constitutional right, article 5 of the constitution? This is the only way any demand will be met.--
Congress is very afraid of an Article 5 because congress has no control IF 3/4 of the states are ratifying Meaning, we need to stay in our states and make the demand for an article 5. We only need 2 more states then congress is in OBVIOUS violation of the constitution and the military, YES, the military will have to defnd the constitution. -
If the state won't, apply, you are looking at a state controlled at key points by the nwo- jack up the pressure! talk about "lawful government" a lot and cite violations of laws on a federal level that impair the states constitution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."
Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.-------
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
Exactly, but many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link above, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. Sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link, so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for by e-mail from the group in the 2nd link, and then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the strategy of the 1st link as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your Occupation & Generation.
I think that our message should be "End the Corruption" and then when people ask what we mean or how to do that we can talk further about several issues including the money one.
Have you seen this video? I think understanding what is presented here can really help us a lot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Qz1C-dAGc
That is about the same as "Act constitutonally", or demand that citizens exhibit some common sense and go to their states, unify for protest and demand to the state legislation to apply to congress for an article 5 convention.
A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.--
http://www.articlevmeeting.info/
Comprehensive strategy.---
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
Hmmmm, would the most legitimate focus possible be the constitution? Would we be right in focusing on one thing that could defend the rights we need? How much protection would this provide protestors?-----
Consider reaching for the authority to meet your demands by using law.
If this thing doesn't find organization soon what we'll have is a colossal failure.
I agree, the one issue, money out of Washington. It's root cause, everything else, merely a symptom.
Organization, leadership, a single issue, a single vision, and a strategy to get there. All these things do not exist, and if they don't come about soon, this thing will be toast.
This experiment in Direct Democracy by anarchists has been effective in attracting alot of attention. This movement has managed take advantage of every social/political/economic frustration to gain attention.
However, Direct Democracy in a park will not translate to the government of a country that is the greatest country on earth and leader of the free world.
Our Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us a Representative Republic. No way is a group of anarchists going to improve on what our Founding Fathers gave to us.
I suppose the 98.99% should give proper credit to the anarchists for launching this experiment. It has helped us to discuss and speak out about many legitimate frustrations and problems in our country.
However, no OWS GA will ever take up the legitimate demands of the majority (ie: campaign finance reform, financial reform, corporate personhood) with the purpose of affecting change through government. Because this is not their goal. Their goal is to use the majorities legitimate frustration to gain support for one thing: Direct Democracy.
I believe that 99.99% of people will reject Direct Democracy beyond the park. It is up to the 98.99% to move our legitimate issues with government out of the park. To work with government and through government to enact the positive changes that we want for our country.
Wow, I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. You should post this as it's own thread. It's perfect.
I hope others realize this in time to make this happen. If not this movement will die a quick death.
Help me. Spread the word. People need to know this. We've come this far.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/bring-me-to-your-leader/ http://occupywallst.org/forum/enacting-the-impossible/
Will try. I'm starting to think that as many people want more structure, there are a good number of people who would agree with Mr. Graer, or what ever his name is.
We got this far with his methodology. I'll give him that. But I don't think the majority of people will want to up-end our Representative Republic. But I think it is important for people to know WHY, for weeks, so many people have been calling for the demands to be taken up by the GA. They never will be. Let the GA prove us wrong. Or the 98.99% split off.
Listen, there are those of us who want this, who can see that if this thing doesn't get it's act together it will fail. Problem is, the people who are actually calling the shots and doing this thing don't want any part of it. They want to continue on this path, and there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. I truly believe that.
I still might try that thing I told you about, but I doubt it will make a difference. The people leading this movement want no part of it, and therefore it will not happen.
I'm sorry! I can't remember what you told me before. You'll have to remind me!
I was planning on coming up with some sort of post. Actually I haven't decided on the exact wording. But to post it maybe a dozen times, then work hard to keep all twelve near the top, to sound as sort of an alarm. It's a weak effort, but it's the best I can come up with.
You mean about getting some sort of leadership and organization around this thing?
I think I may post in a few minutes. It's all about the lack or org, leadership, liberal leanings, etc...
Have you seen this?
I think it is legit. I think this was on the GA page here at one time. And there was a post about it a while back . It has been deleted from the GA page now. But I think this group split off. I remember seeing it before, I just didn't recognize the significance at the time.
https://www.facebook.com/www.the99declaration.org#!/www.the99declaration.org?sk=wall
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
These pages have strategy that empowers lawful rebellion. http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html http://algoxy.com/ows/statestrategies.html
Yes, unity is critical. We can use a legal concept to unify behind IF we are willing to educate ourselves into exactly HOW we can gain the authority as a people to effect the changes that need to be done. The product of an Article 5 convention to propose amendments has all the authority needed. Here is a page explaining just how illegal congress is.
http://www.foa5c.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=2