Forum Post: corporate influence in government and its effect on our social contract
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 12:31 a.m. EST by cives
(8)
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If I understand correctly, Occupy Wall Street has, at least as part of its purpose, the idea of protesting corporate influence in our government.
I'm just starting to read Rousseau's "The Social Contract". One thing that he states is that "the social pact...substitutes...a moral and lawful equality for whatever physical inequality that nature may have imposed...so that however unequal in strength and intelligence, men become equal by covenant and right. Under a bad government, this equality is only an appearance and an illusion; it serves to keep the poor in their wretchedness and sustain the rich in their usurpation. In truth, laws are always useful to those with possessions and harmful to those who have nothing; from which it follows that the social state is advantageous to men only when all possess something and none too much" (Book 1, Ch 9).
The resources of corporations and the singularity of their purpose far outweigh the resources of the people and their diverse interests, thus leaving our system in a social state where the few (corporations) possess what can only be stated as too much.
Certainly when regulatory agencies that are supposed to protect the welfare of the citizens instead protect the interests of corporations, the system has gone awry. Rousseau also claims that the end to which a state has been established is expressly that of the common good (Book 2, Ch 1). When a government caters to the interests of corporations at the expense of the interests of its citizenry, it is a bad government.
If people in the movement "Occupy Wall Street" can articulate this purpose in a coherent manner, I think the vast majority of the populous would be in agreement and find some way to show solidarity with the movement.
I would also like to add that the mass of peole do not think they are in controll, so they give thier power away. The energy that is the driving force of ows had the spirit that has the peoples best intrest from tapping into all thats been. I hope this fact is not covered or over looked further. The goal is big not small.
Allow a translation. Your perspective is correct.--------
The people do not think they are independent from corporations. We are suffering an instinctual division similar to that of an insect colony and it happens without our awareness so our claim to our knowledge of how to meet our own needs is not met.-----
Yes, big goal.
I hope this post stayes up and is read by everyone. In my very limited way i have tried to say what others have said here. I want desperately for ows to see the power they can have. I hope they focus on the bigger picture and to bring... this movement has what nothing else will ever have. It may veer off course, but please come back, its the cumulative energy of hundreds of years that is trying to manifest the beginning of what this guy has touched. I have been at ows nyc on Saturdays the first 4 weeks and was brought to tears with faith in the possibilities this movement can bring.
This dude articulates the purpose of the movement very well and I believe most can rally around his message. The book: Wildfire, the Legislation that Ignited the Great Recession. Help get the word out.
Is the purpose of the movement to actually see demands met? How can you verify that it is?
End corporate person-hood. Support the Human Worth Amendment! Learn more at: http://occupywallst.org/forum/human-worth-amendment/
The use of article 5 will assure amendment. Congress is unconstitutional,
Analysis of applications for a convention. Congress violates the constitution for 100 years. http://www.foa5c.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=2
A lawsuit against all members of congress for not calling an Article 5. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8
Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk
A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.-- http://www.articlevmeeting.info/
Comprehensive strategy.--- http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
I like this post and replies. I think the fundamental framework of our democracy is sound, it just has to have the layers of legalized corruption striped away to get to a more equalized representative system. I put up a post yesterday named "fight crony capitalism not capitalism" and would like your opinions of a list of problems I put there. Add your ideas, there are smart people here and I'm sure I haven't thought of everything.
Now if you had left a link to yesterdays post, now 7 days lost, I certainly would read your list, and offer a solution. Article 5 of the constitution.----
Congress is very afraid of Article 5 of the US constitution. They are infiltrated and have been.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_to_propose_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution "Congress acted preemptively to propose the amendments instead. At least four amendments (the Seventeenth, Twenty-First, Twenty-Second, and Twenty-Fifth Amendments) have been identified as being proposed by Congress at least partly in response to the threat of an Article V convention."
Our first right in our contract is Article V, the right to have congress convene delgates when 2/3 of the states have applied for an amendatory convention.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.-------
Here's the link to my post 13 days ago. It would be tough to tackle all of the items on my list but I really do believe they are the root cause of many of our problems. The first two items might be the most important things to fix first. Another thing I should have put on the list are the effects of a for profit health care system in this country. http://occupywallst.org/forum/fight-crony-capitalism-not-capitalism/
Those are all excellent issues which I support. I would say they are problems that create problems rather than the root cause. The root cause is psychological, behavioral and sociological and western humnity is terrified of learning it.
Such a fact is why 9-11 was resolced with a fraud.
Issues can be addressed in a number ways, some more comprehensive than others, so examining exactly how to get the effect is very important. Quite often hasty legislation creates boondoggles that are later used to compromise the intent of the legislation.
Our system is mechanistic. It, however, existing under the constitution has human sensitivity. I've seen thsi from government employees and elected officials. Certainly not all and no often, but often enough to know that if we are certain the constitutions natural law aspects are strictly enforced by us upon government fully in accord with law, we will solve those issues and many others.
Article 5 is our first and last constitutional right.
"corporate influence in government and its effect on our social contract"
Yes, exactly, but do not forget how to stop it. Uh, did you know?
This. Precisely.
I'm practically screaming the same thing.
Campaign. Finance. Reform. Make this the first thing we focus on. Get private money out of government.
All that is needed is the authority to do . . . anything. Therefore, logically, because so many things need to be done, and done well with truth, we need to consolidate our demand into one lawfully based supreme demand under the law of the land with an Article V convention.
Learn about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
cives wrote: If people in the movement "Occupy Wall Street" can articulate this purpose in a coherent manner, I think the vast majority of the populous would be in agreement and find some way to show solidarity with the movement.END Yes, it is the best way to expand and perpetuate action. Very important to not loose inertia. EXACTLY how corporate indivdual rights are to be removed is the question. Personally, it is such a huge undertaking, that only congress and the supreme court could sort it out, and they are corrupt. So, purification of government is a prime issue. When is purified, it will find the best way to remove constitutional individual civil rights from corporate status. It is not going to be easy, but we will get it done, and it's really going to good for business, in the end.
I so wish any protesters could grasp this issue, and wrap their head around the solution. Article V of the US Constitution. You are just beginning to uncover the truth, so this page will help you a great deal. http://algoxy.com/poly/emergency_powers_statutes.html It deals with everything using substance, evidence and law. Basically, our government is the defacto government in place at the end of the civil war, and the war was never formally ended, leaving the defacto government in place rather than instituting constitutional government. I suppose there needs to be an amendment preventing this from happening again somehow. The government of the north was aided by british arms manufacturers who then established what we call the "Military Industrial Complex". Shortly thereafter corporations gained individual rights which put the groups they are in dominance over the populations. Article V is the only way to deal with this.
Article 5 convention NOW! This is the only way to end the corruption of corporate influence.
cives wrote: Certainly when regulatory agencies that are supposed to protect the welfare of the citizens instead protect the interests of corporations, the system has gone awry.END-
And some of those are unconstitutional. Only an article 5 convention can create the authority to address the many issues.
Learn about the article 5 convention to propose amendments.
Analysis of applications. http://www.foa5c.org/mod/resource/view.php?id=2
A lawsuit against all members of congress for not calling an Article 5. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8
Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk
A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.-- http://www.articlevmeeting.info/
Comprehensive strategy.--- http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html