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Forum Post: Fight fire with fire?

Posted 8 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 1:54 p.m. EST by unlabeled (112)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Can't we just collectively buy some businesses? We could collectively run the businesses as well. And use the profits from the businesses to support all the people of the world rather than the privileged few. We could make sure that the businesses don't fail by purchasing their goods and services. Some of the profits could be used to buy more companies. We could run the businesses from a website. We could post all the information from the businesses on that website, and vote on how to run them. Collectively we could beat the one percent at their own game.

I recently found out that this idea is very similar to 'participatory economics' or Parecon for short. Here's a short video to highlight the concept. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd60nYW577U I have a few criticisms about the video myself. Some aspects about the video I feel could be changed are...

If we have say 50 businesses, employees could be paid depending on desirability of the job. For example, if no person wants to be on garbage duty, the starting pay for that job will go up until the position is filled. If everybody wants to photograph kittens(watch the video), the starting pay goes down.

We could make our own unemployment/retirement system. Each person's total time of employment will be recorded. When an employee becomes unemployed, they can continue to receive payment from our system. They would receive payments based on how much time they were employed. For example, if a person worked for 5 years before they quit, and the unemployed pay is $2,000 per year of service. This employee will receive a payment of $10,000 a year. So, after 30 years of service, this employee will receive $60,000 a year.

We need a web-based Direct Democracy now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu8J_UKKa-c

56 Comments

56 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Letsbereal (5) 8 years ago

sounds like the USSR, which was very successful!!!! Let's do it! You have my vote!

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

I'm not saying to change the government, just do this in the existing system.

[-] 2 points by jmcdarcy (158) 8 years ago

I think people do do that. I think it's a good idea. Go for it...be the change you want to see.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 8 years ago

like these businesses; http://www.usworker.coop/about/memberlist

worker run collectives are very successful,. in spite of corporate manipulations.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Yes, it is like a co-op with a a twist. Everyone in the world is a share owner. Therefore everyone has a vote on how this corporation is run. The profits will benefit the workers, and the entirety of the public. In time our corporation could start paying dividends and we could even start Eliminating Jobs. It would be beneficial to automate everything when the public is supported by the dividends from our corporation.

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 8 years ago

If the American public doesn't get their blindfolds off and unite for the purpose of getting our country back with a government that lives by integrity and accountability soon, we are doomed!

[-] 1 points by RevolutionaryTruth (95) from Houston, TX 8 years ago

Communism seems not to work, people have to be kept in the nation not out. http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 8 years ago

Wow, a workers collective is communism to you,. get a grip.

[-] 1 points by pissedoffconstructionworker (602) 8 years ago

The OP is about worker owned collectives, not "communism".

Communists don't buy the business, they just take the management out and hang them from the lamp posts in the parking lot.

[-] 1 points by RevolutionaryTruth (95) from Houston, TX 8 years ago

okay I see now I understand I'm sorry for the misjudgement

[-] 1 points by solidarity1 (25) 8 years ago

Business owners are evil. Bad idea.

[-] 1 points by Dubby (146) 8 years ago

Yeah with that $500K in donations we could collectively buy a Subway franchise and collectively decide how much to charge for double cheese.

Can we please stay within the realm of reality here?

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Trolls are lame.

[-] 1 points by Dubby (146) 8 years ago

I agree. Go read my other posts and you will find you have jumped to a conclusion here. Blind name callers are also lame.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Your comment was an attempt to ridicule my post without a logical point. If you don't want to be known as a troll, give me some solid criticism or delete your post.

[-] 1 points by Howtodoit (1232) 8 years ago

although, first we need to rebuild the walls of regulation for Wall Street. How about this plan?

Here's how we can easily Reform Wall Street: Take away their powers "Once Again." And the best way to get this done is a Million People March to Capitol Hill!

For example, "We are here Congress because we want you to REINSTATE the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wX which was created to help save our country from the Great Depression by preventing investment companies, banks, and insurance companies from merging and becoming large brokerage firms; instead of just being Banks and Insurance companies -- Congress why can't you learn a history lesson from 1929? The current system doesn't work, except for the 1%, once again. Btw, why did most of you vote for the major repeal of G-S Act in 1999? Shattering The Glass-Steagall Act: http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act (2nd story here)

Think about where we are now, it all started in 1999 with lawmakers like Senator Phil Gramm who helped create legal gambling casinos for our banks: CNN's The Ten Most Responsible for Economy Collapse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKQOxr2wBZQ&feature=related

Furthermore Congress, we also want you to CHANGE the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000 BACK to where it was before 2000, which since has deregulated energy markets and consequently allowed for such scams as The Enron Loophole; whereas in the early 2000's Enron Corp. was charging 250 bucks plus for a kilowatt hour...They all when to jail for this. But, the Enron loophole is still not closed, for example, allowing speculators to resell barrels of oil over and over again before it reaches the gas station owner. It's basically legal gambling at our expense. What were those lawmakers thinking then? What are you thinking now? Either do the right thing, or you're part of the 1%."

So why are oil prices high? The Enron Loophole. Former Head of U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission Michael Greenberger speaks to Congress on the high price of oil--and he's not happy about energy deregulations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related

Rolling Stones Reporter Matt Taibbi: Truth about Goldman Sachs--how they have cornered the markets--basically, The Enron Loophole and the shattering of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waL5UxScgUw

Let's get focused and bring back The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, they got it right 1933, we don't need to REINVENT the wheel because bringing this Act back will help create an even playing field once again....and let's finally Close the Enron Loophole, which allowed Enron to charge what they wanted for energy; they went to jail for this; but no one closed the loophole, why? Re-election Monies from the big brokerage firms and oil companies! The writing is on the wall.

Let's get organized and reinstate these critical financial reforms with a Million People March to Capitol Hill!

Considering we need a strong central focus, maybe call it: "The Million People March to Capital Hill to Reinstate The Glass-Steagall Act and to Finally Close The Enron Loophole"

[-] 1 points by Markmad (323) 8 years ago

That was one of my ideas initially, to create a large public fund to buy all the banks. I don’t know why but it does sound so fissionable.

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 8 years ago

Yes, very well. What shall we sell and market?

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

It would be easiest to buy out some currently existing business. Banks would be a good idea. In my opinion we should purchase internet providers first. That would be something everyone could easily support. It will be absolutely essential to set up some kind of web-based voting system in the near future. If we own the internet, it will be harder for the existing authorities to pull the Internet Kill Switch that many of our elected politicians are working on.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Wow, things are moving faster in OWS than I thought possible. I know that this proposal will take a few years to implement, but we have to consider something like this so that we have a smooth transition. I also realize that there are many more people coming to us with their confusion and we have to work on getting them up to date on the information. I am learning myself, and I've got to say, "I love it!!" this is so awesome :)

[-] 1 points by technoviking (484) 8 years ago

post your business strategy on the website please!!

i'll run another business to beat yours.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

It's already here in the comments. Do some more reading please! If you make yourself look stupid that easily, there's no way you could compete with OUR businesses. Democracy in the workplace will destroy the current system of Monarchy in the workplace!

[-] 1 points by technoviking (484) 8 years ago

yes ok... you're right... it's hard to beat your business plan.

please keep me updated if you can get better prices than walmart.

things are starting to get expensive in china.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

That's right, keep giving me a reason to keep my post on the top of the forum list so everyone can read about my business plan. :) thank you

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Awesome! It seems like most of us, are leaning toward something like this:) We can take down the Monarchy that exists at our workplaces!

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

The world must unite. A united world will have no need for wars. A simple police force will be sufficient.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

If we buy out enough companies, we can take control of local services. With our money we could hire our own police force, fire department etc. We could take control of all government functions, hire our own people to run them, and quickly vote them out if they do an unsatisfactory job. A small change yes, but, more control for us and less for the government. In time we could phase out all governments.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

In the future, many of our arguments about taxes will be irrelevant. Artificial intelligence and automation will take most, if not all, of the jobs. Who will pay taxes when no one is employed? This should be looked at as a blessing. Arts, hobbies, sports, etc. will be our past times. We need a dynamic system to encourage these changes, not fight against them. If we start now, we can be in control of our future. There may very well be individuals who see this inevitable future, and view us as an unnecessary part of it!

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 8 years ago

Well the venus project could use support and offer an alternative solution to many problems which have been raised.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dWjNg7i2zNk

A resource based economy explained: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8

Zeitgeist Moving Forward: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

yes, I'm familiar with the venus project. I believe this may be a step to achieve their goals as well. If we buy out much of the means of production, we may be able to eliminate money as well.

[-] 1 points by genanmer (822) 8 years ago

Many people (especially those that don't surf the internet often) havn't been exposed to these sort of ideas.

That's why they are trying to gain support for a major motion picture film.

[-] 2 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

The zeitgeist movies are some of my favorites. :) Yes, everyone should become familiar with them.

[-] 1 points by thatgamerguy (1) 8 years ago

Isn't this just what a corporation is?

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Yes, very similar. Except there are no official shareholders. Every person on the planet is an owner.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

The website would have all finances posted. All employees pay would be known. This way we would know exactly where our money is going. The main page would show the total amount of money controlled by the people.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

This business model is already in place. It would be like a publicly traded company. However, there would be no shareholders. Operating along side the stock market, this would be an economic stabilizing force.

[-] 1 points by Elysium22 (95) 8 years ago

Agreed

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Also with the money that is under our control we could set up a universal health care system. We could upgrade to renewable energy sources. We could send money to the poor, no matter where they are in the world. And we would never need a leader!

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Thank you :) it would mover things along faster if we could talk a business owner into donating their existing business to all the people of the world. Every person in the world would immediately become a share holder. A collective non-ownership

[-] 1 points by SIBob (154) from Staten Island, NY 8 years ago

This is a very good post. Empower the workers themselves, buy products from these enterprises and bypass the mega-corporations entirely. Great idea.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

thank you, all i ask is to think about the possibilities and spread the word if you believe this is a solution

[-] 1 points by SIBob (154) from Staten Island, NY 8 years ago

It is a good start, and a positive contribution.

[-] 1 points by OWSNewPartyTakeNY2012 (195) 8 years ago

we could totally do that and we should. But we should elect our own into office as well.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

This could eliminate a lot of problems. We could vote to make products that last, and are cheaper. We could vote to pay the workers of our businesses more money. We could vote to use materials that have less impact on the environment.

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[-] 0 points by junglylion (55) 8 years ago

Though more and more people have realized the injustice of the society, and protested, most still don't know what is the right way. voice, if diverse, will be weakened and hardly be effective. so, here, we suggest a possible way for your consideration.

People's voice should be consistently like this:

1) To the government and the capitalists: you are elits and were granted the capital and power based on our trust on you. However you abuse your wisdom for gathering your own wealth; you abuse your power and military force for maintaining your government. So, you have no right anymore to control the capital and materials, and to lead the army. You should either whole-heartedly serve the people, or give up and let those who have a higher wisdom as well as mercy to lead us and control the capital.

2) To all the monopoly : you should give up the aim of pursuing maximum profits, and change the aim into minimizing the costs and the labor time but should not fire the workers or reduce the payment for the reason of improved productivity and reduced costs. the enterprises are not yours, but us all human beings. If you feel reluctant to serve us all, you should leave your position and let all the people to chose the managers of the enterprises.

3) To all the citizens on the Earth: We should be united. We should all be benevolent and selfless, should advocate virtue and high spiritual pursuit. We should make the global enlightment and the global material and spiritual freedom our common goal and struggle for it whole-heartedly.

[-] 1 points by unlabeled (112) 8 years ago

Excellent post, i whole heartedly agree with you