Forum Post: Sanders Has Already Won
Posted 8 years ago on May 15, 2015, 7:34 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8310)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
By Justin Akers / socialistworker.org
Bernie Sanders does not have to become president in order to win. Just by getting in the ring, he has already scored a major victory for the American working class. His campaign is blazing a new trail to the left in the American political system. In the coming years, we will probably see the development of a Democratic Socialist Party in the U.S.
Win or lose, his campaign will lay the foundation for a new American left. His candidacy has opened the door to socialism in the U.S. The debate about America's economic future will no longer be a debate between the center and the right. Finally, the real left will be heard.
The people who will be galvanized by the Sanders campaign have no reason to consider socialism a dirty word. We have witnessed in our lifetime the epic, miserable failure of unrestrained capital. We can see the devastation global capital is inflicting on the environment. Our generation has trillions in student loan debt. We have no health care. Our wages are stagnant. We feel these truths to be self-evident.
The steel door that capital bolted shut on the working class, locking socialism away from the debate, has been blown off its hinges by Bernie Sanders, allowing socialism in America to finally breath again.
There is a real possibility now for a sustained assault on capital. For too long, radicals have felt completely shut out of the mainstream debate. For too long, we have felt apathetic about the political process in this country because we were relegated to the fringes of society. We had to Occupy in order to be heard. We were totally shut out of the system. All we could do was occupy, protest, or riot.
Now we have the ultimate, mainstream option available: Taking over the White House.
It's only been a few days since Sanders announced his candidacy, but already, the left is beginning to realize how hugely significant a moment this is for American politics. You can hear the first rumblings of an enormous grassroots movement developing. One hundred seventy-five thousand people have already signed up to volunteer for the Sanders campaign.
Hillary Clinton is not a foregone conclusion in 2016, any more than she was in 2008. She can be beat, again. She is not entitled to the presidency. And neither is Jeb Bush.
Americans do not necessarily want to hand over the future of this country to another Bush or another Clinton. We do have the ability to chart a different path. We are capable of another revolution in America: a socialist revolution.
Justin Akers, McMurdo Station, Antarctica
http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/sanders-has-already-won/
The people on this site now have a clear choice between the ego whore, power hungry idiots and real CHANGE!
Is "removed" the same as "deleted"?
it is if it was [re]moved to the trash.
thank you, a fair amount of trash needs to be moved from time to time, I can remembering helping someone change apartments once we spent the first hour taking out trash....
Nope. It is qualitatively VERY different.''Deleted'' is something done by choice by a poster whereas
''Removed'' is arbitrarily done by Petty Pissant Tinpot Tyrants, who act mainly out of mean minded
mendacity and manipulation. It is not pretty at all and it seriously undermines all of us on this site.
so "removed" is something the founders wish I see, you Green Party hacks are being revealed by Bernie just as the Bankers will be....
It has nothing to do with ''the founders'' and everything to do with parDisan mods - so you ''see'' fuck-all, even with those spectacles! Despite their numerous good ideas - I don't have anything whatsoever to do with the US Green Party but that that won't stop your lies or help you with your fixations, will it? See IF you can put your parDisan prejudices aside for a moment or two and ask yourself - exactly what bits of http://www.gp.org/what-we-believe/10-key-values you find so objectionable?You cranky, hung-over iDiot!
You are a pathic power seeker trying to co-opt OWS to feed your ego.
P-ass-ive Aggressive, huh? Dolt! + fyi ... http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-sanders-socialism-may-have-mainstream-appea/#comment-1060435 Try to focus and meditate on ''The 99% General Welfare''.
Didn't read that passive to me.
The Greens are dead you should get over it and get on with your life.
''Greens'' worldwide have more to do with Future Solutions, than the Corporate Controlled Conservative voices of 'more of the same' Reaction.The Left has many faces.Try to find a new tune frf + again, try to read the article from 'The Atlantic', here and take heart .. http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-sanders-may-run-will-that-motivate-ows-to-g/#comment-1061018 The OWS 99% Struggle is a 20-25 yr project and all those with a perspective of longer than 1 or 2 election cycles get this - so keep planting seeds.
Have you ever heard about how you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. The road is a long one but we can get the job done one election at a time. You won a big one in 2014 sending a bunch of Dems home, but there are many more to come and the GOP can be killed, the force is with us!
You are in denial about The Hard Right Wing; Anti-Progressive; ''Liberal''-Hating; Racist ~20% Rump of mainly white people in The US and frankly, this is hard to understand given how you're living in Arizona!
You may aspire to 'kill' The Repugnant Elephant ''one bite at a time''but it won't serve The 99% to be left with a .. Bloated Corporate Co-opted Democratic Party Jackass! Your aspirations to a One Party State are as telling as your refusal/inability to say a single word of criticism about your beloved DNC. Also fyi: http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-a-damn-shame-how-the-green-party-hacks-have-be/#comment-1057875
Go read that and try to figure out how to appeal to a 40%+ of Americans, who don't vote for a POTUS + fyi http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-sanders-may-run-will-that-motivate-ows-to-g/#comment-1061018
You are as lost and confused as your comments, you storm about talking about a great movement that can bring down the whole system yet you tremble at the magnitude of bringing down the GOP. 20% can't elect anybody if the 80% vote and aren't stupid.
Have you ever read the US Constitution? and no I don't support a convention to change it, that would be stupid to give such a small group so much power. There will never be one bloated party nor will there ever be three, but if we kill the GOP the Dems could be split into two and that is how we get there, that is a real workable plan.
You seem addicted to your own lies and extremely limited analysis of the US electorate and the politics/economics of societal change. You offer no answers outside the 'more of the same - will somehow yield new and different results' paradigm. Good luck with inspiring the young with that.
So, have people in ''the nation'' woken up - to their self-interest, yet? Who is telling ''the truth about the GOP'' to them, other than a Corporate owned MSM? Are Americans - and especially white Americans, receptive to the 'GOP is Evil' message?Or are they just too busy allowing themselves to be scared and manipulated into blaming everyone that isn't exactly like themselves? Is The Democratic Party, offering The99% an analysis of this or a critique of how to change things for the better so as to inspire the kids?
20-25% of White Americans are more addicted to ass-licking the 1% and hoping for either some trickle down or that they too can join the 1%, than they're willing to realise + accept their 99% co-dependence and common interest. They are happy to 'kiss up and kick down', and what was it that Steinbeck said?
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires”! +see http://occupywallst.org/forum/rent-rape/#comment-1057838 for more. Focussing on Wall Street's co-option, control and death-grip is very important, right?
Your strategy of just scaring people with 'GOP = Evil' (which I get) is NOT working. How do you inspire people with the possibility and actuality of real change?With Hillary Clinton? With a different Corporate Banker Controlled 'GOP-Lite'? Other than the usual and tribal Democratic Party voter - just who else is buying that message with any enthusiasm or belief? What do you honestly think OWS is really about?
Did you read this: http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-the-power-of-the-1-percent/ ? Is it inspiring to the young and others?Have you any vision outside one electoral cycle? Or are you just too busy fighting the 2000 POTUS election for that 0.01%er Al Gore....again and again? Or are you so fixated on your simple magical cure - so as to be unable to see the longer term struggle?
Figuring things out is one of the only freedoms we really have left.So Go Use That Freedom. Go Figure!
Nice little history bit going back for someone who thinks 2000 too far back to be considered, today Sweden has over 85% voter turnout, Norway over 78% the US is at 36%, so getting people out to participate in the system is vital to controlling the 1%.
It's a "nice story" because it's closer to the truth than your lies will ever be and re Sweden and Norway -
See http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-the-power-of-the-1-percent/
Educating folk with facts, history and ideas is what's needed NOT just ''do more of the same and hope"!
and don't forget getting them to the polls to vote that is clearly the most important thing, vote and vote wisely that's how we get the results of Sweden and Norway,
You are scum bent on supporting the 1% by discouraging voting.
You wanna have a case? Present the actual voting records (senatorial and congressional) - show us the voting breakdown - then perhaps you could clearly show how much the same the members of the two parties are.
So far all your rhetoric - is - just that - rhetoric.
Put up or Shut Up.
11th track: (We erroneously conflate)
We erroneously conflate the dems and reps - as it provides us with cover as being against the system - while it throws mud at those who do not deserve it - and basically works to help people to choose to opt out of the process rather than make any united attempt to remove the actively evil from government - and so we support the status quo - "of this country being given to the 1%" - while hiding behind a claim of being revolutionary supporters of the people.
I kind of like the way you save time by having the canned answers to their canned bullcrap.
I figured that it was about time - they have been spouting this same crap for three years now.
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Translation: You want us to keep doing the same thing that we have always been doing, and you expect that it will be different this time. Can I deduce from your comment that you think of yourself as a rebel? ...lol
Remember, we have a Democratic President who is trying to pass the TPP, and who undoubtedly you did support.
9th track: (Take no action) "as Nothing can be done - believe us!"
We support the status quo of handing the USA over to the 1% - but that just don't float - so instead we urge taking no action and clothe it in an appearence to be rebelling against the system - and we are so happy that few catch on to these facts
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you
But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do
'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase
All the right crap spread in all the right places
We see the citizens groups working that action to take
We know that shit ain't real (believe us)
Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)
If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up
'Cause every inch of you is perfect
From the bottom to the top
Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
We're bringing doody back
Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey
No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,
We're here to tell you,
Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave
Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
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11th track: (We erroneously conflate)
We erroneously conflate the dems and reps - as it provides us with cover as being against the system - while it throws mud at those who do not deserve it - and basically works to help people to choose to opt out of the process rather than make any united attempt to remove the actively evil from government - and so we support the status quo - "of this country being given to the 1%" - while hiding behind a claim of being revolutionary supporters of the people.
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Thanks, facts, perfect time to promote this post
Bernie Sanders is saying things that are quite obvious to Left, Liberal, Progressives - but which seldom if ever get any airplay or discussion on Corporate Owned MSM and for that alone - his POTUS run has value. It's difficult for me to fully understand how he can make that run - Without the say so and nod of the DNC though. Going forward, The 99% need a multi-headed, many issued, myriad faced Movement.
My opinion, I believe the Democrats connived with Sanders to get him to run for President. I think that Hillary thought that by having Sanders run, and him not attacking her... it would add to the validity of her wanting to come across as being reborn as a people person and a more rational choice, the difference being she combs her hair, and is more mild mannered.... more Presidential.like.
I do think that the Democrats miscalculated though... the degree of discontent in this country, and consequently the appeal of Sanders. Hillary cannot afford to lose the growing far left which is basically a wing of her party, and expect to win the general election. Along with the DNC's previous mis step is the strong, justified, cynacal feeling of many radicals (that's us;) that just about all politicians, especially ones who have Hillary's record are liars. They do not trust her, and see her words, or plan as a ruse. and i believe that she is very aware of that.
The TPP, as I mentioned in past posts, is one of the major differences between the two primary candidates. Since she has not come out vehemently against it, a long time ago, she in effect has already shown her real stripes, and it won't matter what she says, now. And with that fact alone, it would be near impossible for her to mend her party, and for her to win in Novemeber.
Whoever wins in Novemeber will again be masterful at the art of double speak... portraying themselves as a candidate for the people, without pissing off their real constituents, BIG MONEY.
''What we saw in 2008 was the enactment of a welfare state for the rich, a kind of state socialism for the financial elites that Marx predicted. But with this comes an increased and volatile cycle of boom and bust, bringing the system closer to disintegration and collapse. We have undergone two major stock market crashes and the implosion of real estate prices in just the first decade of the 21st century.
''The corporations that own the media have worked overtime to sell to a bewildered public the fiction that we are enjoying a recovery. Employment figures, through a variety of gimmicks, including erasing those who are unemployed for over a year from unemployment rolls, are a lie, as is nearly every other financial indicator pumped out for public consumption. We live, rather, in the twilight stages of global capitalism, which may be surprisingly more resilient than we expect, but which is ultimately terminal. Marx knew that once the market mechanism became the sole determining factor for the fate of the nation-state, as well as the natural world, both would be demolished. No one knows when this will happen. But that it will happen, perhaps within our lifetime, seems certain.
“The old is dying, the new struggles to be born, and in the interregnum there are many morbid symptoms,” Antonio Gramsci wrote.
''What comes next is up to us.''
From: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/karl_marx_was_right_20150531 by Chris Hedges.Thank you for your thought provoking reply. The jury is out and we are all better off looking forward and while noting the small steps ... never losing sight of the long term work that lasting change and ethos shift, requires. Finally, re TPP ... http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42017.htm by Dr. Paul Craig Roberts.
I mean really, factsrfun, what happened to Hillary? You've just forsaken her? I am not asking in jest. I'd really like to know. Please respond. I've noticed you carefully ignoring this question.
If you would could you link to the post where I was praising Hillary I don't recall it, but there are many posts I have made about how stupid it is to let the GOP win. I have made many post to that affect because there is stupid and there is really really stupid and people who care about the 99% but let the GOP win are really really stupid.
As long as you are in a question answering mood tell me what do you think of letting the GOP win?
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11th track: (We erroneously conflate)
We erroneously conflate the dems and reps - as it provides us with cover as being against the system - while it throws mud at those who do not deserve it - and basically works to help people to choose to opt out of the process rather than make any united attempt to remove the actively evil from government - and so we support the status quo - "of this country being given to the 1%" - while hiding behind a claim of being revolutionary supporters of the people.
12th track: (Hiding in plain sight)
All it requires - is - enough expressed vitriol for the system in general - and many will believe you mean it - while one need not provide any supporting substance.
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Forum Post: Sanders Has Already Won
While I can't agree with that sentiment.
Being in the race and talking to the public on a much wider access than on cspan will be a very healthy shot in the arm for the public and the issues that need to be faced and forwarded or defeated.
It is my hope that he will gain widespread popular support - not just with democrats but with republicans who are waking up to the fact that "they" have absolutely no representation in office - and support from progressives independent or otherwise.
It is my hope that he will have overwhelming support that leaves the democratic party no choice other than to run him as the choice over Hillary as the presidential candidate.
While I sing back up I would like to compliment you for this post. Widespread popular support for progressives is exactly what we need, unless it's a strategy for destroying populism by using the media to make him out to be a buffoon.
Many of the best minds behind OWS never gave a crap what was on this forum so it is hard to say what will happen. I believe that the media's power to inform paled by what OWS did in 2011/2012 so it is no doubt in the people's hands.
I agree to a point, and I cannot say for sure that, "..[Some] of the best minds behind OWS never gave a crap what was on this forum..." I would say that they learned fairly quickly that the place was full of Democrats trying to absorb this movement into their corrupted party. Rather than expending their energies in opposing them, they went on to join more altruistic activist groups. Just as it was beneficial to Occupy that it had no leaders for the corrupted system to single out and denigrate.... it is also benefical that there is no singular group for 'them' to villify for wanting to bring true justice to our country. We are everywhere now.
You are an infestation, a political hack bent on co-opting OWS to kickstart your ego driven bullshit party.
Calling me an "infestation," and a "political hack" ?? And so thinks one of the people who wants us all to vote Democratic....AGAIN. I didn't see you at the Left Forum today. Will you be at the Unitarian Church Of All Souls tonight? Kshama Sawant and Chris Hedges will be speaking. Perhaps you should think about becoming enlightened, or to ask for forgiveness.
I push people to address wealth inequality I am open to any path that does that, you only care about attacking the Dems in order to build your bullshit ego driven party, you don't give a damn about wealth inequality or money's power in government, you don't care if the GOP are elected and increase wealth inequality because as a political hack you care only about attacking the Dems to build your ego driven party, that is why you are an infestation, that is why you have been banned from the site many times.
Anyone who relied on the Democrats, and especially the Republicans to bring about systemic change is a fool.
If you rely on anyone but yourself, you are a fool.
But "the system" is a ladder of power if one leg is taken out the whole thing will fall.
Kill the GOP; Change the World!
So then you must rely only on yourself to "Kill the GOP...". Err... I think you're in trouble, and a "fool" too. Systemic change will not happen with the elecoral proocess. That's how they keep people like you diverted.
The 1% depend on people like you to suppress the vote, it is their only hope.
For people who actually want to change the world it is actually quite simple get your ass to the polls and kick a Republican out of office, if you disagree then tell uis why are you OK with the GOP? What about them do you like so much?
You want us to "get ..[our] ass[es] to the polls," like we did when we elected Obama??
yeah I would have liked to see some bankers in jail, but tell me which do you regret the most not getting McCain or not getting Romney? Life is choices, now back in 08 I did support Hilary over Obama but you young folks rush to Obama, I wanted Hilary because she wouldn't have wasted all that time reaching out to the pure evil that is the GOP, oddly enough some people on here are doing that all the time thinking that pure evil can be saved that is why people like you are here attacking the Dems every day trying to reach out to the GOP just like Obama did.
It would appear insane if it weren't so clear that you are really just political hacks trying to tear down the Dems to build up your bullshit, then it makes sense, you don't give a damn about what obama did or what McCain or romney would have done you care only about how smart everyone thinks you are.
You wanted to see the Hag, the WAR monger as President?
so you wanted Obama? interesting
you must be one pimple faced ugly little punk you got a lot of time to type
9th track: (Take no action) "as Nothing can be done - believe us!"
We support the status quo of handing the USA over to the 1% - but that just don't float - so instead we urge taking no action and clothe it in an appearence to be rebelling against the system - and we are so happy that few catch on to these facts
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you
But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do
'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase
All the right crap spread in all the right places
We see the citizens groups working that action to take
We know that shit ain't real (believe us)
Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)
If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up
'Cause every inch of you is perfect
From the bottom to the top
Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
We're bringing doody back
Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey
No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,
We're here to tell you,
Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave
Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Just because that you can't get your way, and have this Occupy forum be a pro corrupt Democratic place, does not mean that you should act like an ass. Candidates in both parties are beholden to their party, and both parties have been bought off by BIG money.
16th track "(When we conflate the dems with the rethuglicans)"
We are doing our best to prevent legitimate debate.
As - we can't have people considering matters like:
Who supports access to Health care for all
Who attacks and denies Health care for all
or
Who supports raising taxes on the wealthy
Who attacks raising taxes on the wealthy
or
Who supports expanding Social Security
Who attacks Social Security
or
Who promotes environmental standards and protective restrictions
Who attacks environmental standards and protective restrictions
I mean if we do not shut this stuff down it becomes pretty easy to see that we really can't conflate the dems as being exactly the same as the rethuglicans.
We need to support our meaningless "public self defeating" circular logic arguments - that to gain participatory democracy and control of government - that the people need to opt out.
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You may have limited succes in controlling this forum by removing comments, but you and your cohorts will NEVER be able to co-opt this this struggle into the corrupt Democratic Party!
8th track: (False flag) "We tear down the dems and even independent socialists who are forced to run as a dem in order to have a chance to compete - but you will not hear us go after any rethuglican no matter how actively evil they are - the furthest we will generally go - is to conflate the dems with the rethuglicans - does it make you wonder?"
Because you know we're all about them Dems,
'Bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
.......
Because you know we're all about them Dems,
'Bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
Who gave the OK for Shell to drill In the Arctic? It was YOUR DEMOCRATIC President Obama who did.
20th track "(We really really really are not about Direct Democracy)"
As people could tell if only people paid attention to our activities
Lucky for us the people do not and so we can continue with our politi-speak = talking endlessly while saying "really" nothing at all - nothing of any value - see also: endlessly arguing circular "public self defeating" logic, tossing shit, spouting specious aspersions, trying to hide in the light, etc etc etc
Lucky thing that more people don't ask us why:
"Why don't you take over government for the people from within?"
"Seeing as you don't have a national party in place to successfully run your candidates in all 50 states - WHY don't you run your candidates as dems and reps?"
Well we would just have to say (and we do) that the people can't be successful that way. Better we say - if we all stay away - and just protest for government to get better.
We really do not want people to consider a possible winner by doing things like Bernie Sanders and run as a dem for a real chance to win - and have "more" people running on the issues where they can legitimately destroy their opponents in office or also running for office - by pointing out past voting records showing non support for the people - even showing active attacks on the people - or even calling on them to declare a public stance.
Gosh that would ruin our whole "public self defeating" circular do nothing opt out and just protest logic.
You view a person that "Take[s] no action" as someone who does NOT vote for a corrupted DEMOCRAT every couple of years? So then you must view yourself as an 'activist?'
16th track "(When we conflate the dems with the rethuglicans)"
We are doing our best to prevent legitimate debate.
As - we can't have people considering matters like:
Who supports access to Health care for all
Who attacks and denies Health care for all
or
Who supports raising taxes on the wealthy
Who attacks raising taxes on the wealthy
or
Who supports expanding Social Security
Who attacks Social Security
or
Who promotes environmental standards and protective restrictions
Who attacks environmental standards and protective restrictions
I mean if we do not shut this stuff down it becomes pretty easy to see that we really can't conflate the dems as being exactly the same as the rethuglicans.
We need to support our meaningless "public self defeating" circular logic arguments - that to gain participatory democracy and control of government - that the people need to opt out.
The political process is broken beyond repair, yet you want us to vote for more CORRUPT politicians in the Democratic Party?
16th track "(When we conflate the dems with the rethuglicans)"
We are doing our best to prevent legitimate debate.
As - we can't have people considering matters like:
Who supports access to Health care for all
Who attacks and denies Health care for all
or
Who supports raising taxes on the wealthy
Who attacks raising taxes on the wealthy
or
Who supports expanding Social Security
Who attacks Social Security
or
Who promotes environmental standards and protective restrictions
Who attacks environmental standards and protective restrictions
I mean if we do not shut this stuff down it becomes pretty easy to see that we really can't conflate the dems as being exactly the same as the rethuglicans.
We need to support our meaningless "public self defeating" circular logic arguments - that to gain participatory democracy and control of government - that the people need to opt out.
The sedintary man critizing other posters for not voting for more CORRUPTED DEMOCRATS?? That seems a bit non-sensical to me,
20th track "(We really really really are not about Direct Democracy)"
As people could tell if only people paid attention to our activities
Lucky for us the people do not and so we can continue with our politi-speak = talking endlessly while saying "really" nothing at all - nothing of any value - see also: endlessly arguing circular "public self defeating" logic, tossing shit, spouting specious aspersions, trying to hide in the light, etc etc etc
Lucky thing that more people don't ask us why:
"Why don't you take over government for the people from within?"
"Seeing as you don't have a national party in place to successfully run your candidates in all 50 states - WHY don't you run your candidates as dems and reps?"
Well we would just have to say (and we do) that the people can't be successful that way. Better we say - if we all stay away - and just protest for government to get better.
We really do not want people to consider a possible winner by doing things like Bernie Sanders and run as a dem for a real chance to win - and have "more" people running on the issues where they can legitimately destroy their opponents in office or also running for office - by pointing out past voting records showing non support for the people - even showing active attacks on the people - or even calling on them to declare a public stance.
Gosh that would ruin our whole "public self defeating" circular do nothing opt out and just protest logic.
The current CORRUPT "status quo" is your bag, not mine.
4th track: (Fooling You)
We support the status quo - though you wouldn't know - cause we are so sneaky and say damn it all - with no plan at all - to change it at all. So we say do nothing at all - and - it will all - just get better - well just because. If ya go for that one - we also have water rights leases to some real fresh sparkling fracked ground water we can let ya have for cheap.
Accusing me of "polit-speak" while you continue to support a corrupt DEMOCRATIC Party?? Get real!
4th track: (Fooling You)
We support the status quo - though you wouldn't know - cause we are so sneaky and say damn it all - with no plan at all - to change it at all. So we say do nothing at all - and - it will all - just get better - well just because. If ya go for that one - we also have water rights leases to some real fresh sparkling fracked ground water we can let ya have for cheap.
[Removed]
No matter how many "track" comments that you put up, I will not let you trash our revolution and co-opt it into your beloved & CORRUPT Democratic Party. Your resistance to Occupy is yet another example of a person who has sold out.
Do something useful - organize - and get out the vote :
50 state senatorial listing of who to remove from office. Please share.
50 state congressional listing of who to remove from office. Please share.
My "plan", unlike your's is not to keep doing the same thing that we have been doing and expect different results. Both parties stink!
17th track "(We will endlessly argue meaningless "public self defeating" circular logic)"
We will endlessly argue meaningless "public self defeating" circular logic
We get that from the rethuglicans.
We will tell you that we have something good.
But when asked what that is - we can't formulate a straight answer.
So we will go back to arguing a meaningless self defeating circular logic.
Like:
Don't vote because that won't help - just protest instead because that will make everything better all by itself.
And if you don't accept that and refute it - we will gang-up on you and stinkle team you relentlessly - because that proves that we are right and you are wrong. It goes hand in hand with our meaningless "public self defeating" circular logic.
The rethuglicans "have" been making a systemic change for over 40 years now = wealth and control to the 1% and a shift towards poverty and abject slavery for everyone else.
So the real fools are individuals who would continue to support the rethuglican's.
And the Democrats have joined the Republicans in their quest to propagate more injustices.
Are there some dethuglicans in office?
You damn betcha.
Do they need to be removed from office?
You damn betcha.
That being said the majority of individuals in office that need removal from office ASAP do reside in office as rethuglicans.
FACT not fiction.
So go ahead and campaign for third party individuals in state campaigns that they can win - like the city council win for Kshama Sawant - but we really need wins in state government. Do this in all 50 states - that is where the population can go head to head with big money and win on the issues.
Then if you ever get around to making a meaningful cohesive and fully supported "national 3rd party organization". Run third party candidates that have a proven record of standing and fighting for the people - for continued office and for higher office including for POTUS where the now national and cohesive third party can then run a successful campaign for POTUS.
Or you can continue with your current program of conflation and urging people to do nothing (this I fully expect from you and your cronies).
That's just another way of saying that you want us to keep investing, or wasting our time in the corporate owned parties. No thanks
Stand Up For Truth: An International Week to Support Whistleblowing June 1-7, 2015 -- StandUpForTruth.org
Thomas Drake, Dan Ellsberg, Jesselyn Radack, Coleen Rowley, and Norman Solomon are off to Europe for these events. They will deliver this petition in Berlin. Big news there, and it's not too late to add your name and comments.
Anywhere in the world, you can participate in webcasts with whistleblowers and their supporters:
Former State Dept. official Matthew Hoh and author and RootsAction campaigner David Swanson -- 9 pm ET (Eastern Time, GMT -5) June 2
Journalist, activist, and lawyer Trevor Timm and investigative journalist Tim Shorrock -- 9 pm ET June 3
Director of media for the Institute for Public Accuracy Sam Husseini and author and law professor Marjorie Cohn -- 9 pm ET June 4
NSA whistleblower William Binney and NSA whistleblower Kirk Wiebe -- 8 pm ET June 5
Media critic and RootsAction cofounder Jeff Cohen and Author and communications professor Robert McChesney -- 9 pm ET June 5
Journalist Kevin Gosztola and EPA whistleblower Marsha Coleman-Adebayo -- 5 pm ET June 6
The webcasts will each last 60 minutes. To listen and type in questions, just point your web browser here (bookmark it now) and turn up your volume. Everyone is encouraged to use the webcast and to type in questions there. It requires a computer and will not work on a phone. If you can't use a computer, there are a very limited number of lines on which you can phone in. Just call 1-844-472-8237 (toll-free in U.S.)
You can also ask these whistleblowers and truth tellers questions beforehand or during the webcasts by tweeting them to @Roots_Action.
The webcasts are sponsored by RootsAction Education Fund and ExposeFacts.
Bill Binney and Marcy Wheeler are speaking in Chicago on June 2nd, and Binney in Minneapolis/St. Paul on June 3rd. Area residents can join this awesome art creation in Los Angeles on June 6th.
Find an event near you, or create an event for June 1-7 or later. We'll help you promote it. -- The RootsAction.org Team
Initiating Organizations: ExposeFacts, Freedom of the Press Foundation, International Modern Media Institute, Networkers SouthNorth, RootsAction.org.
www.RootsAction.org
[Removed]
Pretty much the entire nation is aware of how corrupt they are except for about 25%.
Roughly 10-15% on each side keep this nonsense going. If they would just shut the fuck up and join ranks with the other 75% of the nation we might be able to turn this thing around.
Trying to attach yourself and your rotten, corporate Democratic Party with all the good "actions" taking place all over the World is disingenuous. The criminal Democrats and Republicans are the main reason why we are here.
Will you and your opt-out buddies be promoting this week of events or not?
Stand Up For Truth: An International Week to Support Whistleblowing June 1-7, 2015 -- StandUpForTruth.org
Thomas Drake, Dan Ellsberg, Jesselyn Radack, Coleen Rowley, and Norman Solomon are off to Europe for these events. They will deliver this petition in Berlin. Big news there, and it's not too late to add your name and comments.
Anywhere in the world, you can participate in webcasts with whistleblowers and their supporters:
Former State Dept. official Matthew Hoh and author and RootsAction campaigner David Swanson -- 9 pm ET (Eastern Time, GMT -5) June 2
Journalist, activist, and lawyer Trevor Timm and investigative journalist Tim Shorrock -- 9 pm ET June 3
Director of media for the Institute for Public Accuracy Sam Husseini and author and law professor Marjorie Cohn -- 9 pm ET June 4
NSA whistleblower William Binney and NSA whistleblower Kirk Wiebe -- 8 pm ET June 5
Media critic and RootsAction cofounder Jeff Cohen and Author and communications professor Robert McChesney -- 9 pm ET June 5
Journalist Kevin Gosztola and EPA whistleblower Marsha Coleman-Adebayo -- 5 pm ET June 6
The webcasts will each last 60 minutes. To listen and type in questions, just point your web browser here (bookmark it now) and turn up your volume. Everyone is encouraged to use the webcast and to type in questions there. It requires a computer and will not work on a phone. If you can't use a computer, there are a very limited number of lines on which you can phone in. Just call 1-844-472-8237 (toll-free in U.S.)
You can also ask these whistleblowers and truth tellers questions beforehand or during the webcasts by tweeting them to @Roots_Action.
The webcasts are sponsored by RootsAction Education Fund and ExposeFacts.
Bill Binney and Marcy Wheeler are speaking in Chicago on June 2nd, and Binney in Minneapolis/St. Paul on June 3rd. Area residents can join this awesome art creation in Los Angeles on June 6th.
Find an event near you, or create an event for June 1-7 or later. We'll help you promote it. -- The RootsAction.org Team
Initiating Organizations: ExposeFacts, Freedom of the Press Foundation, International Modern Media Institute, Networkers SouthNorth, RootsAction.org.
www.RootsAction.org
9th track: (Take no action) "as Nothing can be done - believe us!"
We support the status quo of handing the USA over to the 1% - but that just don't float - so instead we urge taking no action and clothe it in an appearence to be rebelling against the system - and we are so happy that few catch on to these facts
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you
But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do
'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase
All the right crap spread in all the right places
We see the citizens groups working that action to take
We know that shit ain't real (believe us)
Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)
If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up
'Cause every inch of you is perfect
From the bottom to the top
Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
We're bringing doody back
Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey
No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,
We're here to tell you,
Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave
Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Have you been busy, DK? Your shitlist isn't up to date. Do you still regard these people as being here for nefarious reasons? These people's views are far closer to the activists that I know in Occupy. I think that this may indicate that you are a paid hacker.
There ya go again = erroneous/false conflation.
Your goal? Apparently to get people to do nothing.
The result? Full ownership of government by the 1%.
You present nothing that would change my opinion of you and your opt-out and give up control Cadre.
You talk revolution - but you forward nothing that would support your "talk". You have "NO" walk - to go along with your "talk".
Basically you are exactly like rethuglicans = trying to suppress the vote.
For you and many unaware, especially older people, this revolution will always be a black hat vs white hat scenario or Republicans vs the Democrats ... because that's all you know and you are incapable of envisioning anything else. You have fallen into the trap of how this corrupt system controls us... diverts us and advances its nefarious agenda on the people.
9th track: (Take no action) "as Nothing can be done - believe us!"
We support the status quo of handing the USA over to the 1% - but that just don't float - so instead we urge taking no action and clothe it in an appearence to be rebelling against the system - and we are so happy that few catch on to these facts
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you
But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do
'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase
All the right crap spread in all the right places
We see the citizens groups working that action to take
We know that shit ain't real (believe us)
Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)
If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up
'Cause every inch of you is perfect
From the bottom to the top
Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
We're bringing doody back
Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey
No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,
We're here to tell you,
Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave
Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Of course the corp(se)oRAT MSM will not be kind to Bernie - and will do anything they feel they can get away with - to be a major stumbling block for Bernie.There are a concerted bunch of mutts trying to use this forum that way. Not as wide of coverage as MSM gets - but still this is a forum that should be supporting progressives.
The media will continue to protect the wealthy. The repubs will resonate with, "We will not raise taxes", even though the taxes would only be "suffering", to cause the very, very, wealthy, to only be very wealthy. In this world, the "suffering" of the masses is ignored, while the naive continue to believe in the American dream and vote against their own interests as if their football team must win and they believe their leaders. There must be a plan for Bernie to fall on his face, his beliefs in a democracy would alter the government process, which is exactly what we need. I wish I was more hopeful.
[EDIT] [EDIT] [EDIT] That sounds an awful lot like red state voters = blindly supporting those who do not represent them at all - and worse - have their boots on their throats. Major case of Stockholm syndrome - generationally acquired and maintained?
EDIT-> Welllllll.......here's another thought........... he wouldn't be the 1st individual running for office who was a threat to corruption - that the corrupt assassinated. So even if TPTB couldn't successfully discredit him or get him to fall on his face . . . . . . . . . . .
EDIT EDIT-> My God Bernie - do you have a reliable security team? I mean - I really don't think you want to have to depend on the partying service . . . . . . ummmmm scuse - the Secret Service - at this point in time.
EDIT EDIT EDIT-> Though on second thought Bernie - maybe the Secret Service might find themselves re-energized and rededicated to the job - if they felt that they were actually caring for someone who took "their" job as president and the support of the constitution seriously. I mean ya know - it could make a huge difference if they felt that they were working to protect and support this country again - rather than be called upon to protect someone who could care less about the country and was only in the job for what it could provide to them for their own personal gain.
I sent him a few bucks so his contributor list would be larger than Hillary's, with the net and the awareness that OWS brought to wealth inequality I really do think this is possible.
Absolutely - and that is why the 1%er's and their supporters who infest this site are absolutely rabid towards Bernie - as he could inspire the people to get involved and make the changes that are needed.
Many who have been trying to co-opt OWS from the beginning are now lining up with the main stream media to sell the message that Bernie can't win.
Anyone who comes here to read can see this for themselves if you want to know who is doing the work of the 1% look and see who is pushing the same message as the 1% owned media.
Yep - and then they try to hide in plain sight by calling themselves revolutionaries and true supporters of OWS - all the while - when they are not trying to throw off suspicion - they talk like they are rethuglicans. They put out a cover story that they are for building a third party (when they are not saying opt out that is) but never say what that party is. This way they can say that they are for taking over government by bypassing the duopoly (that is when they are not saying that the people can't do anything because the system is too corrupted) - they never introduce that third party - they just say it is what needs to be done - and to hell with putting people in office locally or in the state or federal government because nothing can be done. Yeah they talk circular go nowhere public self defeating logic. They are supporters of the top of the 1% - they are supporters of their own slavery - they are Judas Goats.
America is faced with an opportunity to change everything and that is going to scare a lot of people, dealing with the wealth inequality will be a huge battle but it may be starting soon.
Will you be working on having YOUR Minnesota Democrat Senator Klobuchar impeached? I hear that she is close friends with Democratic Senator Menendez of NJ, both of whom accepted campaign funds or bribes, and free trips for Menny to the Caribbean as well, all from Dr Melgen. Do you think that she will be indicted for corruption like Menny was? Is "owning the system," a euphemistic way of saying that, 'We must focus on voting on more of the corrupted people who are candiadates in those parties?'
Our democracy is in trouble.
The Supreme Court’s now infamous Citizens United ruling has permitted wealthy special interests to drown out the voices of We the People and distort our entire political process.
An amendment to overturn Citizens United has been introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives.
Find out where your representative stands on overturning Citizens United. If he or she hasn’t yet supported an amendment, urge him or her to sign on now. (Or say thanks if your representative is already on board.)
It’s not easy to win a constitutional amendment.
But it’s not impossible, either.
In fact, more than a third of the 17 amendments passed since the Bill of Rights were necessitated by bad Supreme Court rulings.
And Citizens United is a deplorably bad Supreme Court ruling.
We have the power to overturn Citizens United and take back our democracy.
Tell your member of Congress that you support a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United.
In a historic vote last fall, a majority of senators supported an amendment.
Of course, we’ve had an election — with more corruption by billionaires and Big Business — since then.
Nevertheless, 127 representatives and 40 senators have already added their names in support of the amendment in the current Congress.
We’ve made more progress, more quickly, than even we expected when we launched the campaign for an amendment on that fateful day back in 2010 when the Supreme Court handed down its Citizens United debacle.
But we still have a long way to go. And that’s why we have to push harder today than we did yesterday.
Make sure your representative knows that the American people deserve and demand a constitutional amendment to restore OUR voices in OUR democracy.
If you want to end Citizens United, take this next step today.
Onward,
Robert Weissman President, Public Citizen
© 2015 Public Citizen • 1600 20th Street, NW / Washington, D.C. 20009 • unsubscribe
Blah blah blah blah blah "something shiny" Blah blah blah blah blah "take no action" Blah blah blah blah blah "we got something better we just can't tell you about it " Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah (says mdonelly and his opt-out crew)
When you cannot respond to what was based on what you must believe to be uncomfortable facts, not my opinion.... and then can't defend your overall point of view in a cogent manner, void of your BS... you are showing your true colors as to why you are here. Have you added on to your shit list yet, which is comprised of posters who are not partisan Democrats?
BTW, will you be at the Left Forum tomorrow, where we can discuss your hacking for the corrupted Democrats further? Don't forget, high school kids get in FREE to the LF, and there is FREE childcare on Saturday and Sunday.
Why should I answer your queries when you refuse to answer any yourself? All you have ever presented so far as something which you support is = the left forum. That is where you go to every time you want to dodge why you have nothing to say about what the people should be uniting to support. You talk about a third party (well not really - you just say that there should be one - not anything about what you or anyone else is doing to create one). You and your buddies are deep in rhetoric but you provide nothing of substance to support your (so far) meaningless rhetoric - you just say left forum - "go" - and then go back to your regular program of circular "public self defeating" go nowhere propaganda.
"will you be at the Left Forum tomorrow"
Hey rock head! How many times I gotta tell you that I don't live in New York before that fact sinks into what you call your brain?
Here is another grassroots movement that you never talk about:
Move to Amend - Official Site
So - you are all hopped up about the left forum. What do you plan on getting out of it? More grassroots movements to take part in?
Your Democratic Senator Klobuchar is from your home state, Minnesota. Do you not regard her as being corrupt, for taking cash or bribes from Dr Melgen too? Will you be working all day trying to get us to accept the lesser of the two evils.... AGAIN?
My God - $4,000.00 dollars in donations for 2012 - how could this have been overlooked? - I mean someone could run for president with such single source donations - think of the air-time and propaganda that that money could buy - easily decades worth of dark money political support just from that one source - diabolical - monstrous. One just has gotta wonder - just what exactly did Klobuchar promise for such a monumental financing sum?
Blah blah blah blah blah "something shiny" Blah blah blah blah blah "take no action" Blah blah blah blah blah "we got something better we just can't tell you about it " Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah (says mdonelly and his opt-out crew)
Will you soon be deploying your juvenile song & dance routine because you are finding it difficult to defend your beloved, corrupted Democrats?
Blah blah blah blah blah "something shiny" Blah blah blah blah blah "take no action" Blah blah blah blah blah "we got something better we just can't tell you about it " Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah (says mdonelly and his opt-out crew)
Will you be attending the Left Forum today? Distance should not be a problem for you. They have planes now. Maybe, you could call one of your buddies from Boeing, and if he is not too busy making armaments for the MIC, he could help set something up for you.
Blah blah blah blah blah "something shiny" Blah blah blah blah blah "take no action" Blah blah blah blah blah "we got something better we just can't tell you about it " Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah "left forum" Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah (says mdonelly and his opt-out crew)
So you will continue to use this disruptive format? OK, it's almost as revealing about your intentions as the other one. The bigee for you is still to have Occupy swallowed up by the corrupt Democrats, right?
"The bigee for you is still to have Occupy swallowed up by the corrupt Democrats, right?"
That is "your" bullshit - you and your opt out do nothing and win propagandists.
The message I think that is the most prominent going around many of the radicals in NY is very similar to the one I have. And that is, we should use Sander's candidacy to further our goals, on wealth inequality especially, and that we should be very wary of him using us to pump up their corrupt establishment instead. The latter is what the two parties have a long infamous history of doing.
Yes I would imagine the people you hang with are verse at co-opting or at least dreaming about it, just sort of stupid when it come to actually getting shit done.
After all you have seen OWS as a means to your ends working to co-opt it to further your ego driven bullshit party.
And I would "imagine that the people that you hang with.." also think that, 'focusing on voting for another corrupt Democrat is the same as being in Occupty.'/
Most the people I know fully understand how completely stupid it is to let the GOP win, you I know love the GOP and rejoice when they win. Feel free to explain why you think it just fine when the GOP win, it's just when the Dems win you have problem.
I doubt most of the people that you know have left town in the last ten years. Do you think that, it was "stupid" of yourself to have supported your Democratic President for re-election, especially since he is supporting the passage of the TPP?
Well I lived through W Bush so the thought of what McCain or Romney would do in any given situation always made me very happy that it was Obama and not them. Of course I supported Hillary in 2008 because of the whole wasting time "reaching out" to the GOP, that is just stupid.
You on the other hand don't give a damn about how much worst McCain or Romney would have been all you care about is your pithic political party.
There's plenty of hints that his poll numbers will always be low. I worry that he will not be allowed to be serious because of the media. The expectation, (plan), is for points to be made on issues, but mainstream is always correct and the polls prove it.
perhaps you could find something to post here in his support and help change that scenario.. .
I read and hear Mr. Sander's words and am aware of his past actions. Posting in his support will not necessarily, "change that scenario", if you feel as I do that these things are corrupt and controlled by elites. I have stated that I would vote for Warren or Sanders if they were on the dems ticket. I will be thrilled but most of all shocked if that scenario happens. When Hilary gets the nomination, I will vote 3rd party.
You continue to post about eliminating the GOP which would be fine with me, but the difference in our beliefs is that the dems themselves would not allow that to happen. I don't even dream in that world. We have to show the establishment we are regaining control of the political process.
Your life seems very controlled by outside forces, perhaps there is no point in posting or commenting or protesting or anything really, if you truly believe "they" will never allow change to occur....
I think change is as simple as telling the truth, the truth is the GOP work to make the rich, richer and the rich are too damn rich now, but simple truth does not serve everyone's purpose some have other things like their own power that concerns them.
I'm not sure what your simple truth is but why didn't the Occupy movement commit to convincing everyone to vote for dems instead of repubs? You are committed to that, as a dem shill should, but apparently there are truths about the dems you don't understand. "They", include the dem establishment, and even though you are a hopeless case, we might succeed without you. Long live Occupy!
I am committed to addressing wealth inequality it is obvious to any who are not blind that killing the GOP is a part of what is needed. Occupy wants to reduce the power of money in government the GOP wants to increase it, there are many areas where the people's power is reduced but the one place we can use our power and can do so in a way they can not ignore is to kick their footmen from office, proving to the 1% that we are not stupid we see what they are doing and we are ready to act is a vital step in achieving our goals.
There are many here on this site and at the meeting that don't give a damn about taking effective actions to force change but care only about building their own political power base, those people spend all their time worried that people will see of course that the GOP must be killed, that is why they spend all their time attacking the Dems.
Those people are bullshit co-opter trying to take the energy of OWS to kickstart their bullshit ego driven political party.
Aren't there Democratic Party forums for this bullshit? I ask you again, Why didn't the Occupy movement call for the killing of the GOP and strongly endorse the Dems? The answer is because, Occupy, does not believe the Dem party is much better than the Repubs. This is an Occupy forum and we want a political revolution, something Bernie Sanders has mentioned. We are not counting on Sanders or any politician to bring about this altering of the political process, Occupy wants people that will help build the new process. You just seem to be in the way of progress. Please find a Dem forum and kill the GOP.
Perhaps you don't speak for occupy any more than I do.
Isn't that the true core of occupy? Is it your opinion that if one examines the subject of wealth inequality and determine the GOP must go, they are no longer part of occupy? That is ridiculous. You can be as stupid as you want to be, you can elect all the GOP you want to, you can let the 1% run everything, no wait I guess that would make YOU not occupy after all.
Micha White has recognized the failure of Occupy to act and has even begun to address that failure = http://occupywallst.org/article/crisis-within-activism/
But you defeatists won't face reality or you stand against taking action - not because you are defeatists But Because You Are Actually Supporters Of The 1% trying to hide in the guise of revolutionaries.
i stand against the daily active airstrikes
I'm glad justine has a job
I mean outside of missing conversation
Neither you, or Micah White are representative of the vast majority of people in our struggle. You do remind me of co-opters though.
2nd track: (Specious aspersions) "When one has nothing and can't defend their position""
We throw specious aspersions as we have nothing else to say.
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Read quickly, before it's removed again.
[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (21898) 48 minutes ago
"She wrote that she locked down the Twitter account partly in order to keep it from being just a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party."
That "she" would be jart. Renneye had mentioned that she read that somewhere, and I had too, but here it is mentioned on her wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justine_Tunney
And, for fun, because this reply won't last very long before the tyrant deletes it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWGeRgFa-hI
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQV0hbK6P6c
I guess the founders are getting tired of you ego whores and your Green Party bullshit.
You political hacks take the cake, acting all radical when in fact all you care about is building your political party you never do anything but whine about the Dems because you think you can co-opt OWS to kick start your bullshit Green Party.
Funny that - really - of course then she must not think that the democratic party is trying to take over the forum - or is it that she does not see frf or myself as being co-opters sent here by the democratic party that she has allowed us to stay?
Could she view you and your opt-out bunch as being as dumb as a box of rocks in your continued attempts to get people to opt-out and do nothing?
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I'm "look[ing]", and I can see what you are talking about. I know that I won't need a mirror either. Will you and DK be joining us tomorrow at the Left Forum? Don't forget high school kids allowed in FREE, and childcare is also FREE on Saturday and Sunday.
Replying here. The trouble for you DK, after putting up so many stupid posts that were clearly meant to disrupt this revolution is; Nobody in his right mind reads and believes your coopting crap.
9th track: (Take no action) "as Nothing can be done - believe us!"
We support the status quo of handing the USA over to the 1% - but that just don't float - so instead we urge taking no action and clothe it in an appearence to be rebelling against the system - and we are so happy that few catch on to these facts
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you
But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do
'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase
All the right crap spread in all the right places
We see the citizens groups working that action to take
We know that shit ain't real (believe us)
Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)
If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up
'Cause every inch of you is perfect
From the bottom to the top
Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
We're bringing doody back
Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey
No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,
We're here to tell you,
Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave
Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
In your quest to coopt this revolution with your twisted logic, and bring it into the corrupt Democratic party, you are entertaining. You should have come to the Left Forum, and spewed your bullshit there 'cause radicals like to laugh too.
Since the left forum is over you and your opt-out buddies probably need something else to do.
Here:
Stand Up For Truth: An International Week to Support Whistleblowing June 1-7, 2015 -- StandUpForTruth.org
Thomas Drake, Dan Ellsberg, Jesselyn Radack, Coleen Rowley, and Norman Solomon are off to Europe for these events. They will deliver this petition in Berlin. Big news there, and it's not too late to add your name and comments.
Anywhere in the world, you can participate in webcasts with whistleblowers and their supporters:
Former State Dept. official Matthew Hoh and author and RootsAction campaigner David Swanson -- 9 pm ET (Eastern Time, GMT -5) June 2
Journalist, activist, and lawyer Trevor Timm and investigative journalist Tim Shorrock -- 9 pm ET June 3
Director of media for the Institute for Public Accuracy Sam Husseini and author and law professor Marjorie Cohn -- 9 pm ET June 4
NSA whistleblower William Binney and NSA whistleblower Kirk Wiebe -- 8 pm ET June 5
Media critic and RootsAction cofounder Jeff Cohen and Author and communications professor Robert McChesney -- 9 pm ET June 5
Journalist Kevin Gosztola and EPA whistleblower Marsha Coleman-Adebayo -- 5 pm ET June 6
The webcasts will each last 60 minutes. To listen and type in questions, just point your web browser here (bookmark it now) and turn up your volume. Everyone is encouraged to use the webcast and to type in questions there. It requires a computer and will not work on a phone. If you can't use a computer, there are a very limited number of lines on which you can phone in. Just call 1-844-472-8237 (toll-free in U.S.)
You can also ask these whistleblowers and truth tellers questions beforehand or during the webcasts by tweeting them to @Roots_Action.
The webcasts are sponsored by RootsAction Education Fund and ExposeFacts.
Bill Binney and Marcy Wheeler are speaking in Chicago on June 2nd, and Binney in Minneapolis/St. Paul on June 3rd. Area residents can join this awesome art creation in Los Angeles on June 6th.
Find an event near you, or create an event for June 1-7 or later. We'll help you promote it. -- The RootsAction.org Team
Initiating Organizations: ExposeFacts, Freedom of the Press Foundation, International Modern Media Institute, Networkers SouthNorth, RootsAction.org.
www.RootsAction.org
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A webcast?
Wow, what a gamechanger.
In reply, I agree to one your previous comments, that there is only a small per centage of people who are unaware of how "corrupt" our political system is. I think most people just don't know what to do, and sadly have given up hope in some cases. It is the job of people in our struggle to rectify that, and give them optimism, and remind them that the real power of any supposed democratic government is the people.
Pretty much the response I expect from you = to belittle.
BTW - what is wrong with web casts? They have the opportunity to reach more people than were able to attend the left forum (did you go?).
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I am empathetic to you plight hence I can understand how you confuse taking "action" with voting every couple of years for a corrupt candidate in the two parties. I guess at a certain point, all unaware, or partisan people in particular, unfortunately will reach that stage in life. This revolution will go on unabated without people like you. That was reconfirmed to me in NY, to this past weekend.
9th track: (Take no action) "as Nothing can be done - believe us!"
We support the status quo of handing the USA over to the 1% - but that just don't float - so instead we urge taking no action and clothe it in an appearence to be rebelling against the system - and we are so happy that few catch on to these facts
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you
But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do
'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase
All the right crap spread in all the right places
We see the citizens groups working that action to take
We know that shit ain't real (believe us)
Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)
If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up
'Cause every inch of you is perfect
From the bottom to the top
Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
We're bringing doody back
Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey
No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,
We're here to tell you,
Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave
Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Public base, to take no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base, take no action We're all 'bout that base, 'Public base
STINKLE #23 for DKA.. - For trying to slap the label of a "..1%er....", on anyone who does not want to vote for someone in either of the two corrupted parties. Will you be trying convince people ALL DAY to vote for the lesser of the two corrupted evils...AGAIN?
So you "do" see your self as a 1% supporter - I mean you did just now attach your self to being rabid towards Bernie - right? And you have no "good" excuse as to why you hate him and his anti-establishment stances that are all in support for the people. So I guess you must be feeling conflicted about being a 1% supporter willingly or not. You out yourself pretty much every time you make an opt-out comment.
STINKLE #24 for DK... For.. 1. Continuing to insinuate that the corrupted Democrats, and Occupy are one and the same. 2. And for implying the foolish notion that his beloved corrupt Democrats are "anti establishment"! WOW! Thats twisted! Are you laughing too? And finally for the daft* belief that him and his accomplices are not "opt[ing] out" because they will be voting for more corrupt party members.
That would be you and your 1% supporting buddies trying to put words in my mouth = "Continuing to insinuate that the corrupted Democrats, and Occupy are one and the same."
That would be you trying to put words in my mouth = "And for implying the foolish notion that his beloved corrupt Democrats are "anti establishment"! "
And another specious aspersion (tossing shit) by you = "And finally for the daft* belief that him and his accomplices are not "opt[ing] out" because they will be voting for more corrupt party members."
the measure of a soul starts at the center of its perception making each exception
so know there is no > ascension
I prefer to give my money to people who walk the talk, so I sent "a few bucks" to Kshama Sawant's low wage campaign. For some reason, the corrupted Democrats seem to view her as a threat. I wonder why.
Yeah you would prefer the GOP win.
Anyone on here who voted for a GOP candidate would be nuts!I I would prefer a strong third party be created.
yes it is well known that you are a political hack that don't give a damn if people like W Bush are elected, you don't give a damn about what happens just your dream of power you just care about your stupid political party.
Go find solace with your accomplice on here. We've had 40 + years of your smearing people; tons of your stupidity; your countless lies, and twisting of the English language.
I haven't congratulated you on your huge 2014 election win defeating all them evil dems, I don't think 2016 will be so good for you.
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8th track: (False flag) "We tear down the dems and even independent socialists who are forced to run as a dem in order to have a chance to compete - but you will not hear us go after any rethuglican no matter how actively evil they are - the furthest we will generally go - is to conflate the dems with the rethuglicans - does it make you wonder?"
Because you know we're all about them Dems,
'Bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
.......
Because you know we're all about them Dems,
'Bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
For you, it's all about turning Occupy into a branch of the corrupt Democratic Party, and us continuing to vote for the lesser of two evils. Systemic change will never come about by voting for anyone in these two corrupt parties. Your Democratic President has proven that he is to the right of most politicians from forty plus years ago. Think, TPP!
7th track: (Confusing identity)
You might confuse us as being GOP - because we support them in their attacks on anyone who would speak for the people and would forward actions to take to make the government for the people again. As we are for the staus quo - so fuck ya all who are not 1% supporters.
You will never drag me into the Democrat vs the Republican battle. That is how they control us while advancing their nefarious agenda. And you know it! Both parties are corrupt beyond repair.
5th track: (We copy from the worst)
We sing our own politi-speak (politi-speak = talking endlessly while saying "really" nothing at all - nothing of any value - see also: endlessly arguing circular "public self defeating" logic) - tossing aspersions and providing no plans - we're the next best thing to the rethuglicans in office - listen to us sing and pay no attention to the fact that we forward nothing that would be supportive of the people - and so we serve the status quo.
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