Forum Post: Bernie Sanders' 'socialism' may have mainstream appeal
Posted 8 years ago on May 9, 2015, 7:45 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8310)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Finally, conservatives have a real socialist to go crazy about. Instead of concocting dark fairytales about how Barack Obama, a very conventional liberal Democrat, is a secret Marxist who wants to destroy the American way of life, they can shriek about Bernie Sanders, the independent Vermont senator who has never shied away from the socialist label.
Sanders is now the first person to challenge Hillary Rodham Clinton in the race to win the 2016 Democratic Party presidential nomination. Clinton, though, is not his real adversary, Sanders says. He refuses to make disparaging comments about Clinton and insists he has never run an attack ad in any campaign and will not do so against her. Sanders wants to take on the billionaires, not Hillary.
Nobody gives the 73-year-old Sanders a chance of stopping the Clinton political juggernaut, but some think he could make it veer to the left. If the Vermonter gets traction in debates and primaries with his unabashedly progressive positions, Clinton might be forced to match at least some of his rhetoric. Would that be a bad thing for Democrats? Not if enough beleaguered middle class voters get a chance to consider what Sanders’ version of “socialism” entails and like what they see.
Let’s consider some of Sanders’ wild ideas:
Free college tuition. This is something that students can count on in many European countries and that once was not uncommon in the United States. In what many consider the most golden era of the Golden State, California’s great public university system was tuition-free. In many other states, students paid only a few hundred dollars per year to go to top state colleges. Now, of course, American students are graduating with crushing student loan debts while many others cannot afford to pay in the first place. Sanders’ idea seems radical only in that it makes radically good sense.
A $1-trillion program to rebuild the nation’s roads and bridges. This would not only create thousands of jobs, it would finally address the country’s glaring infrastructure crisis that threatens freight mobility and interstate commerce. This sounds pretty pro-business — in a good way.
Break up giant financial institutions. “If they are too big to fail, they are too big to exist,” Sanders says. Unless you enjoyed the economic crash of 2008, this probably sounds like a pretty reasonable idea.
Publicly funded elections. Instead of seeing the spectacle of candidates for president and Congress taking turns begging for money at gatherings of billionaires and corporate lobbyists, public funding for campaigns might encourage politicians to pay attention to those of us who don’t have the ability to buy influence in our government. This feels vaguely un-American only because it has been so long since money did not rule American politics.
Higher taxes on the wealthy. Well, obviously, the schemes Sanders wants to enact would not be free. The money has to come from somewhere. The United States is a very rich country and should be able to do things like rebuild bridges, fix highways and insure that the next generation gets an education without being loaded with debt. The problem is that the vast majority of that wealth is held by a tiny few and a huge share of the new dollars coming into the economy is derived from the financial sector. Those financiers are really bad at creating middle-class jobs, but they are experts at avoiding taxes. Getting more of the wealth spun from elaborate financial trickery to spend on the common good rather than on more mansions in the Hamptons may be a radical idea, but it’s not necessarily a bad idea.
Government-run healthcare. Yup, this one really is socialism. It’s what they have in hellish commie wastelands like Germany, Denmark, Japan, Canada and the rest of the industrialized world. It’s also what Americans over the age of 64 have. We call it Medicare.
Sanders is never going to be president.(Let's stop here for a moment, this is where the revolution begins...) Most voters are not ready to approve his full program. Still, he will have done this country a great service if, through his blunt talk and grandfatherly presence, he gets more citizens to stop being distracted by scare stories and political labels and to start considering ideas on their merits. A 40-hour work week, a minimum wage and restrictions on child labor were once thought of as subversive, socialist doctrines, but they have turned out to be pretty good ideas for Americans — except maybe for the billionaires.
Copyright © 2015, Los Angeles Times
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-bernie-sanders-socialism-20150505-story.html
What do you guys think about this idea of "Higher taxes on the wealthy" do you think it's a good one?
Tax evasion and avoidance by US Corporations and Banks is the highest priority ... as is The Financial Transaction / ''Robin Hood'' / ''Tobin'' Tax. The trouble with saying explicitly ''Tax The Wealthy'' in U$A is the John Steinbeck quote about Americans' false consciousness about seeing themselves as frustrated millionaires as opposed to an (organised) oppressed proletariat!
Look and learn how other 99%s took a different road: http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-the-power-of-the-1-percent/ However - do ''Tax The wealthy'' by removing their tax concessions, perks and 'write off' scams first. But in truth it's now 99% v The Banks and 0.01% - who'll use their 1% cronies to control the 10% to con a 20-30% to act like - Turkeys Voting For Thanksgiving!
How about the public funding of elections?
I am TOTALLY for the Public Funding of Political Parties in elections but Corporate Mega-Bucks have GOT TO GO - as per basic Occupy tenets. Supporting Parties who are financed by Private Corporate Profits is a fact that's fukt! Corporations are NOT people; Money is NOT ''speech''! Furthermore, see.. http://occupywallst.org/forum/dimon-says-chase-shareholders-are-lazy-as-bankers-/#comment-1060433
All the Democrats I know personally want public funding of elections and many I don't know, like Bernie Sanders does as well, can we count on you to work your ass off in the primaries to help get Bernie nominated?
What you can count on is that I'll push towards The Left and pull from The Left & take the long view like Bernie Sanders himself ... http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/30978-movement-builders-should-listen-to-bernie-sanders-focus-on-mass-action-not-candidates Democracy demands Public Funding and a form of Proportional Representation + other Political Modalities beyond today's Cancerous Corporate Control.
How long are you willing to let the Bushes be President?
When are fools like you going to wake up and take action.
The author seems unaware of Warren's age.
Stay real and don't lose the plot again frf! + again http://www.occupydemocrats.com/
So again I ask how many Bushes will it take for you to wake up?
Have you succeeded in the ouster of all The Repugnants in Arizona yet? If not .. why not? And btw: http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/31317-the-supreme-court-s-5-4-decisions-can-be-reversed-with-even-one-new-justice .. as The SCOTUS is where the struggle just might be in the immediate future.
Presidents appoint Justices you would have it be Jeb! I would have anyone that is not a Republican, of course Sanders is my first choice as you well know but I will do all I can to make sure it is not a Republican, will YOU?
Other than the miasma of your damaged brain - have you got ANY Fkn Evidence at all ... just one reply, comment or link ... that would be evidence of my having ANYTHING to do with Jeb fkn Bush?! I get your new found affiliation for Bernie Sanders but please do not make me find evidence of your explicit support for that Neoliberal/Neocon Corporate Darling! + fyi: http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-sanders-is-the-1-percents-worst-nightmare-h/#comment-1061670 .. Please try to stop being so fkn boring and focus now.
Your hatred of the Dems is well know, as is my hatred of the GOP you say that if you hate the GOP and want to do all that can be done to remove them from office somehow that is loving the Dems, it is your own logic that dictates you love the GOP, not mine.
Wrong in fact and in logic. You're the one who equates Any & All reservations about and criticisms of - Corporate Co-opted and Controlled Dems, as somehow de facto GOP actions! You're the one reduced to binary thinking by your fixation on one side of the ''Corporate Donkey / Corporate Elephant'', kabuki!
EDIT: Re. below - please see http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-sanders-may-run-will-that-motivate-ows-to-g/#comment-1061996 and follow the links + consider .. we're more on the same side than not!
well I will continue my attacks on the GOP and the absolute need to remove them from office and see how long it is before you accuse me of "defend the corporate control dems"
I acknowledge that people win elections and pass laws, you don't, it is you who are living in a world of your own creation. It is a fact that people do win, I believe people who care, care about who wins.
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So we can expect to see you forwarding Move To Amend like there is no tomorrow?
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Ouch! ;-) + fyi: http://occupywallst.org/forum/for-httpwwwleftforumorg-thom-hartmann-and-profrdwo/
Funny how the twinkle team use to blast a certain someone for allegedly spamming the site, and wanting to remove the point system...
The longer relationships go, the more the truth of people's characters come out. DKA is just finally letting us in on an emotional level as to what type of human it really is.
Of course anyone that openly condones the use of racist, misogynistic and homophoebic language by people simply because they support the same political party is most likely , well, probably a politician! :)
Did anyone ever figure out what the process was that allowed those four clowns to take control of the lead site of the most awesome political uprising in decades?
Enjoy your day my friend.
The real answer to your quandary is to be found in the 'current attitude' of 'The Founder'. Find and read her Twitter Time Line. All is revealed there but I should warn you .. There Be Monsters! Solidarity and I contend that "those four clowns'' took control here tho' - but they sure as hell tried (and still try) hard.As long as there are Occupiers who remember Sept. 2011 here, the 'CON-Troll-ing' can never fully succeed.
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12th track: (Hiding in plain sight) "we get really strident with this - when we feel we need to reapply shredded cover"
All it requires - is - enough expressed vitriol for the system in general - and many will believe you mean it - while one need not provide any supporting substance.
(part 2)
When the 1st part is not enough we also love to pretend to support protest and things (whatever is handy) - helps to throw off suspicion.
Bernie Sanders is just this year's version of Ron Paul. Someone viewed as an outsider, to further herd in the disenfranchised.
Being that we all know that presidents all go the full 8 years (look at the sorry saps each party runs against the incumbent), its not surprise that after 8 years of Obama the Dems need to get someone in there to keep people from defecting.
Just remember... The people that run the DNC and RNC are a lot smarter than most of us, and incredibly better at understand mass dynamics and how to control power.
I agree. The friendly relationship that Hillary and Sanders have is weird. If he were for real, he should be outraged at her and the support that she has given the adminstation as Secretary of State., but he is NOT. I think it's pay back time for him, for the support that the Democrats gave him in Vermont, where he became a socialist in disguise. As long as you have two corrupt parties ruling our elections and in control of a crappy agenda, like we do, that saying that I once heard holds true, 'The higher that you go in politics, the more concessions that you have to make.' At this particular time, that translates into selling out.
You see the difference between Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders is that Ron Paul is crazy, that tends to push people away, what Bernie is saying makes a lot of sense.
and you are just a conservative here to dismantle OWS,
it is hard to find people who are not smarter than you, even I can't hold that against the GOP or the Dems, I mean you are one stupid person
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1st track:
Dancing............ dancing............. dancing................ we're a dancing machine
Ah babe
Move it baby
2nd track:
We throw specious aspersions as we have nothing else to say.
3rd track:
More specious aspersions - as we have got nothing - nothing - nothing else.
4th track:
We support the status quo - though you wouldn't know - cause we are so sneaky and say damn it all - with no plan at all to change it at all.
turbo the con keeps getting removed....
The American People Are Angry Bernie Sanders
I never heard Elizabeth Warren say she wouldn't run for Vice President, I think Bernie can win this.
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most Americans have a permanent memory
and these leaders only want to believe they have the people fooled
are you also adding to conspiracy crap Matt? it was better when people were banned for such crap as "who is ALLOWED to win"
the person that gets the most votes will win, the books aren't cooked, they are just depressed by idiots that suggest voting isn't all that important
voting isn't voting here in two party hell
Americans get exactly what they vote for.
17th track "(We will endlessly argue meaningless circular logic)"
We will endlessly argue meaningless circular logic
We get that from the rethuglicans.
We will tell you that we have something good.
But when asked what that is - we can't formulate a straight answer.
So we will go back to arguing a meaningless circular logic.
Like:
Don't vote because that won't help - just protest instead because that will make everything better all by itself.
And if you don't accept that and refute it - we will gang-up on you and stinkle team you relentlessly - because that proves that we are right and you are wrong. It goes hand in hand with our meaningless circular logic.
They would make a good team.
Good post. Notice ya got the status quo supporters attacking Bernie.
Running as a dem - Bernie has a very good chance of toppling Hillary into an unsupportable position and take away public support in a major way from her - Leaving Himself as the only one to support for a successful run at the presidency.
Flatly smashing any rethuglican opponent and their against the population policies.
Bernie is so very well outspoken against the TPP. That issue alone could derail Hillary - who to this point in time has not and will not take a position on the TPP.
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The collected styling s of the status quo defenders
1st track:
Dancing............ dancing............. dancing................ we're a dancing machine
Ah babe
Move it baby
2nd track:
We throw specious aspersions as we have nothing else to say.
3rd track:
More specious aspersions - as we have got nothing - nothing - nothing else.
4th track:
We support the status quo - though you wouldn't know - cause we are so sneaky and say damn it all - with no plan at all to change it at all.
5th track:
We sing our own politi-speak - saying much while saying nothing at all - tossing aspersions and providing no plans - we're the next best thing to the rethuglicans in office - listen to us sing and pay no attention to the fact that we forward nothing - and so we serve the status quo.
6th track:
On taking legal action - We so stink - that some might think - that we are quietly buying up fertilizer and plumbing supplies - truth of the matter is - we are just about keeping the public from taking action - cause we are all about supporting the status quo.
7th track:
You might confuse us as being GOP - because we support them in their attacks on anyone who would speak for the people and would forward actions to take to make the government for the people again. As we are for the staus quo - so fuck ya all who are not 1% supporters.
8th track:
Because you know we're all about them Dems,
'Bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
.......
Because you know we're all about them Dems,
'Bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans
9th track:
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you
But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do
'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase
All the right crap spread in all the right places
We see the citizens groups working that action to take
We know that shit ain't real (believe us)
Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)
If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up
'Cause every inch of you is perfect
From the bottom to the top
Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
We're bringing doody back
Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey
No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,
We're here to tell you,
Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave
Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
9th track:
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you
But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do
'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase
All the right crap spread in all the right places
We see the citizens groups working that action to take
We know that shit ain't real (believe us)
Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)
If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up
'Cause every inch of you is perfect
From the bottom to the top
Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
We're bringing doody back
Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey
No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,
We're here to tell you,
Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave
Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance
He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night
You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,
So, if that's what's you're into
Then go ahead and move along
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action
We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base
4th track: We support the status quo - though you wouldn't know - cause we are so sneaky and say damn it all - with no plan at all to change it at all. - by mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)
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3rd track:
More specious aspersions - as we have got nothing - nothing - nothing else.
6th track:
On taking legal action - We so stink - that some might think - that we are quietly buying up fertilizer and plumbing supplies - truth of the matter is - we are just about keeping the public from taking action - cause we are all about supporting the status quo.
I don't think any treaty position will be determinant. I simply reposted the story, I will most likely write some original thoughts on this over time. Yeah Bernie puts the Green Party ego whores back on their heels a bit, it's a good litmus test for those who are here just to build their own power base and those who want change.