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Forum Post: Bernie Sanders' 'socialism' may have mainstream appeal

Posted 2 years ago on May 9, 2015, 7:45 a.m. EST by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Finally, conservatives have a real socialist to go crazy about. Instead of concocting dark fairytales about how Barack Obama, a very conventional liberal Democrat, is a secret Marxist who wants to destroy the American way of life, they can shriek about Bernie Sanders, the independent Vermont senator who has never shied away from the socialist label.

Sanders is now the first person to challenge Hillary Rodham Clinton in the race to win the 2016 Democratic Party presidential nomination. Clinton, though, is not his real adversary, Sanders says. He refuses to make disparaging comments about Clinton and insists he has never run an attack ad in any campaign and will not do so against her. Sanders wants to take on the billionaires, not Hillary.

Nobody gives the 73-year-old Sanders a chance of stopping the Clinton political juggernaut, but some think he could make it veer to the left. If the Vermonter gets traction in debates and primaries with his unabashedly progressive positions, Clinton might be forced to match at least some of his rhetoric. Would that be a bad thing for Democrats? Not if enough beleaguered middle class voters get a chance to consider what Sanders’ version of “socialism” entails and like what they see.

Let’s consider some of Sanders’ wild ideas:

Free college tuition. This is something that students can count on in many European countries and that once was not uncommon in the United States. In what many consider the most golden era of the Golden State, California’s great public university system was tuition-free. In many other states, students paid only a few hundred dollars per year to go to top state colleges. Now, of course, American students are graduating with crushing student loan debts while many others cannot afford to pay in the first place. Sanders’ idea seems radical only in that it makes radically good sense.

A $1-trillion program to rebuild the nation’s roads and bridges. This would not only create thousands of jobs, it would finally address the country’s glaring infrastructure crisis that threatens freight mobility and interstate commerce. This sounds pretty pro-business — in a good way.

Break up giant financial institutions. “If they are too big to fail, they are too big to exist,” Sanders says. Unless you enjoyed the economic crash of 2008, this probably sounds like a pretty reasonable idea.

Publicly funded elections. Instead of seeing the spectacle of candidates for president and Congress taking turns begging for money at gatherings of billionaires and corporate lobbyists, public funding for campaigns might encourage politicians to pay attention to those of us who don’t have the ability to buy influence in our government. This feels vaguely un-American only because it has been so long since money did not rule American politics.

Higher taxes on the wealthy. Well, obviously, the schemes Sanders wants to enact would not be free. The money has to come from somewhere. The United States is a very rich country and should be able to do things like rebuild bridges, fix highways and insure that the next generation gets an education without being loaded with debt. The problem is that the vast majority of that wealth is held by a tiny few and a huge share of the new dollars coming into the economy is derived from the financial sector. Those financiers are really bad at creating middle-class jobs, but they are experts at avoiding taxes. Getting more of the wealth spun from elaborate financial trickery to spend on the common good rather than on more mansions in the Hamptons may be a radical idea, but it’s not necessarily a bad idea.

Government-run healthcare. Yup, this one really is socialism. It’s what they have in hellish commie wastelands like Germany, Denmark, Japan, Canada and the rest of the industrialized world. It’s also what Americans over the age of 64 have. We call it Medicare.

Sanders is never going to be president.(Let's stop here for a moment, this is where the revolution begins...) Most voters are not ready to approve his full program. Still, he will have done this country a great service if, through his blunt talk and grandfatherly presence, he gets more citizens to stop being distracted by scare stories and political labels and to start considering ideas on their merits. A 40-hour work week, a minimum wage and restrictions on child labor were once thought of as subversive, socialist doctrines, but they have turned out to be pretty good ideas for Americans — except maybe for the billionaires.

Copyright © 2015, Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-bernie-sanders-socialism-20150505-story.html

http://www.trbimg.com/img-55492ed2/turbine/la-na-tt-bernie-sanders-socialism-20150505-001/1150/1150x647

40 Comments

40 Comments


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[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

What do you guys think about this idea of "Higher taxes on the wealthy" do you think it's a good one?

[-] 0 points by lugano (1221) 2 years ago

Tax evasion and avoidance by US Corporations and Banks is the highest priority ... as is The Financial Transaction / ''Robin Hood'' / ''Tobin'' Tax. The trouble with saying explicitly ''Tax The Wealthy'' in U$A is the John Steinbeck quote about Americans' false consciousness about seeing themselves as frustrated millionaires as opposed to an (organised) oppressed proletariat!

Look and learn how other 99%s took a different road: http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-the-power-of-the-1-percent/ However - do ''Tax The wealthy'' by removing their tax concessions, perks and 'write off' scams first. But in truth it's now 99% v The Banks and 0.01% - who'll use their 1% cronies to control the 10% to con a 20-30% to act like - Turkeys Voting For Thanksgiving!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

How about the public funding of elections?

[-] 0 points by lugano (1221) 2 years ago

I am TOTALLY for the Public Funding of Political Parties in elections but Corporate Mega-Bucks have GOT TO GO - as per basic Occupy tenets. Supporting Parties who are financed by Private Corporate Profits is a fact that's fukt! Corporations are NOT people; Money is NOT ''speech''! Furthermore, see.. http://occupywallst.org/forum/dimon-says-chase-shareholders-are-lazy-as-bankers-/#comment-1060433

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

All the Democrats I know personally want public funding of elections and many I don't know, like Bernie Sanders does as well, can we count on you to work your ass off in the primaries to help get Bernie nominated?

[-] 0 points by lugano (1221) 2 years ago

What you can count on is that I'll push towards The Left and pull from The Left & take the long view like Bernie Sanders himself ... http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/30978-movement-builders-should-listen-to-bernie-sanders-focus-on-mass-action-not-candidates Democracy demands Public Funding and a form of Proportional Representation + other Political Modalities beyond today's Cancerous Corporate Control.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

How long are you willing to let the Bushes be President?

When are fools like you going to wake up and take action.

The author seems unaware of Warren's age.

[-] -1 points by lugano (1221) 2 years ago

Stay real and don't lose the plot again frf! + again http://www.occupydemocrats.com/

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So again I ask how many Bushes will it take for you to wake up?

[-] -1 points by lugano (1221) 2 years ago

Have you succeeded in the ouster of all The Repugnants in Arizona yet? If not .. why not? And btw: http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/31317-the-supreme-court-s-5-4-decisions-can-be-reversed-with-even-one-new-justice .. as The SCOTUS is where the struggle just might be in the immediate future.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Presidents appoint Justices you would have it be Jeb! I would have anyone that is not a Republican, of course Sanders is my first choice as you well know but I will do all I can to make sure it is not a Republican, will YOU?

[-] -1 points by lugano (1221) 2 years ago

Other than the miasma of your damaged brain - have you got ANY Fkn Evidence at all ... just one reply, comment or link ... that would be evidence of my having ANYTHING to do with Jeb fkn Bush?! I get your new found affiliation for Bernie Sanders but please do not make me find evidence of your explicit support for that Neoliberal/Neocon Corporate Darling! + fyi: http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-sanders-is-the-1-percents-worst-nightmare-h/#comment-1061670 .. Please try to stop being so fkn boring and focus now.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Your hatred of the Dems is well know, as is my hatred of the GOP you say that if you hate the GOP and want to do all that can be done to remove them from office somehow that is loving the Dems, it is your own logic that dictates you love the GOP, not mine.

[-] -1 points by lugano (1221) 2 years ago

Wrong in fact and in logic. You're the one who equates Any & All reservations about and criticisms of - Corporate Co-opted and Controlled Dems, as somehow de facto GOP actions! You're the one reduced to binary thinking by your fixation on one side of the ''Corporate Donkey / Corporate Elephant'', kabuki!

EDIT: Re. below - please see http://occupywallst.org/forum/bernie-sanders-may-run-will-that-motivate-ows-to-g/#comment-1061996 and follow the links + consider .. we're more on the same side than not!

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

well I will continue my attacks on the GOP and the absolute need to remove them from office and see how long it is before you accuse me of "defend the corporate control dems"

I acknowledge that people win elections and pass laws, you don't, it is you who are living in a world of your own creation. It is a fact that people do win, I believe people who care, care about who wins.

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So we can expect to see you forwarding Move To Amend like there is no tomorrow?

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[-] -1 points by turbocharger (1756) 2 years ago

Funny how the twinkle team use to blast a certain someone for allegedly spamming the site, and wanting to remove the point system...

The longer relationships go, the more the truth of people's characters come out. DKA is just finally letting us in on an emotional level as to what type of human it really is.

Of course anyone that openly condones the use of racist, misogynistic and homophoebic language by people simply because they support the same political party is most likely , well, probably a politician! :)

Did anyone ever figure out what the process was that allowed those four clowns to take control of the lead site of the most awesome political uprising in decades?

Enjoy your day my friend.

[-] -1 points by lugano (1221) 2 years ago

The real answer to your quandary is to be found in the 'current attitude' of 'The Founder'. Find and read her Twitter Time Line. All is revealed there but I should warn you .. There Be Monsters! Solidarity and I contend that "those four clowns'' took control here tho' - but they sure as hell tried (and still try) hard.As long as there are Occupiers who remember Sept. 2011 here, the 'CON-Troll-ing' can never fully succeed.

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[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 13 hours ago

Incredible how while spending 3 Trillion a year every year that our roads look the way they do.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

12th track: (Hiding in plain sight) "we get really strident with this - when we feel we need to reapply shredded cover"

All it requires - is - enough expressed vitriol for the system in general - and many will believe you mean it - while one need not provide any supporting substance.

(part 2)

When the 1st part is not enough we also love to pretend to support protest and things (whatever is handy) - helps to throw off suspicion.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)
[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 2 years ago

Bernie Sanders is just this year's version of Ron Paul. Someone viewed as an outsider, to further herd in the disenfranchised.

Being that we all know that presidents all go the full 8 years (look at the sorry saps each party runs against the incumbent), its not surprise that after 8 years of Obama the Dems need to get someone in there to keep people from defecting.

Just remember... The people that run the DNC and RNC are a lot smarter than most of us, and incredibly better at understand mass dynamics and how to control power.

[-] 2 points by mdonelly (324) from Mineola, NY 2 years ago

I agree. The friendly relationship that Hillary and Sanders have is weird. If he were for real, he should be outraged at her and the support that she has given the adminstation as Secretary of State., but he is NOT. I think it's pay back time for him, for the support that the Democrats gave him in Vermont, where he became a socialist in disguise. As long as you have two corrupt parties ruling our elections and in control of a crappy agenda, like we do, that saying that I once heard holds true, 'The higher that you go in politics, the more concessions that you have to make.' At this particular time, that translates into selling out.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You see the difference between Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders is that Ron Paul is crazy, that tends to push people away, what Bernie is saying makes a lot of sense.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and you are just a conservative here to dismantle OWS,

it is hard to find people who are not smarter than you, even I can't hold that against the GOP or the Dems, I mean you are one stupid person

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[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 12 hours ago

Thanks for the glowing review as usual :)

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

1st track:

Dancing............ dancing............. dancing................ we're a dancing machine

Ah babe

Move it baby

  • Our theme song - by (mdonelly, turbocharger and the Cronies)

2nd track:

We throw specious aspersions as we have nothing else to say.

  • by mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing)

3rd track:

More specious aspersions - as we have got nothing - nothing - nothing else.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)

4th track:

We support the status quo - though you wouldn't know - cause we are so sneaky and say damn it all - with no plan at all to change it at all.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)
[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

turbo the con keeps getting removed....

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I never heard Elizabeth Warren say she wouldn't run for Vice President, I think Bernie can win this.

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[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 2 years ago

most Americans have a permanent memory

and these leaders only want to believe they have the people fooled

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

are you also adding to conspiracy crap Matt? it was better when people were banned for such crap as "who is ALLOWED to win"

the person that gets the most votes will win, the books aren't cooked, they are just depressed by idiots that suggest voting isn't all that important

[-] 0 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 2 years ago

voting isn't voting here in two party hell

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Americans get exactly what they vote for.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 3 hours ago

And the romance of "what could be" begins...

Of course Bernie could win it. The nation is full of qualified people who could win this.

But unfortunately, its about who is ALLOWED to "win" it.

You need to take a look at Obama and think back all the way back - I realize most Americans only have a two year memory (the machine realizes this as well) to 2008 and how did you feel?

Do you find yourself going down the same path again?

What will be different this time?

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

17th track "(We will endlessly argue meaningless circular logic)"

We will endlessly argue meaningless circular logic

We get that from the rethuglicans.

We will tell you that we have something good.

But when asked what that is - we can't formulate a straight answer.

So we will go back to arguing a meaningless circular logic.

Like:

Don't vote because that won't help - just protest instead because that will make everything better all by itself.

And if you don't accept that and refute it - we will gang-up on you and stinkle team you relentlessly - because that proves that we are right and you are wrong. It goes hand in hand with our meaningless circular logic.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)
[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

They would make a good team.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Good post. Notice ya got the status quo supporters attacking Bernie.

Running as a dem - Bernie has a very good chance of toppling Hillary into an unsupportable position and take away public support in a major way from her - Leaving Himself as the only one to support for a successful run at the presidency.

Flatly smashing any rethuglican opponent and their against the population policies.

Bernie is so very well outspoken against the TPP. That issue alone could derail Hillary - who to this point in time has not and will not take a position on the TPP.

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[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

[-] 0 points by mdonelly (290) from Mineola, NY 8 minutes ago

Our corrupt political system depends on the unaware, creating division amongst us, the monied beneficiaries of it, and the partisan minions for it to continue. Unfortuately some of the people that want to advance this corrupt system are here too.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

The collected styling s of the status quo defenders

1st track:

Dancing............ dancing............. dancing................ we're a dancing machine

Ah babe

Move it baby

  • "Our theme song" - by (mdonelly, turbocharger and the Cronies)

2nd track:

We throw specious aspersions as we have nothing else to say.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing)

3rd track:

More specious aspersions - as we have got nothing - nothing - nothing else.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)

4th track:

We support the status quo - though you wouldn't know - cause we are so sneaky and say damn it all - with no plan at all to change it at all.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)

5th track:

We sing our own politi-speak - saying much while saying nothing at all - tossing aspersions and providing no plans - we're the next best thing to the rethuglicans in office - listen to us sing and pay no attention to the fact that we forward nothing - and so we serve the status quo.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)

6th track:

On taking legal action - We so stink - that some might think - that we are quietly buying up fertilizer and plumbing supplies - truth of the matter is - we are just about keeping the public from taking action - cause we are all about supporting the status quo.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)

7th track:

You might confuse us as being GOP - because we support them in their attacks on anyone who would speak for the people and would forward actions to take to make the government for the people again. As we are for the staus quo - so fuck ya all who are not 1% supporters.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)

8th track:

Because you know we're all about them Dems,

'Bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans

we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans

we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans

we're all about them Dems, 'bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans

.......

Because you know we're all about them Dems,

'Bout them Dems, not Rethuglicans

  • by (mdonelly, turbocharger & the Cronies singing back-up)

9th track:

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you

But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do

'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase

All the right crap spread in all the right places

We see the citizens groups working that action to take

We know that shit ain't real (believe us)

Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)

If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up

'Cause every inch of you is perfect

From the bottom to the top

Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance

He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night

You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,

So, if that's what's you're into

Then go ahead and move along

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

We're bringing doody back

Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey

No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,

We're here to tell you,

Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave

Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance

He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night

You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,

So, if that's what's you're into

Then go ahead and move along

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

  • by ( mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)
[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 11 hours ago

haha you think the machine is going to put Bernie into the presidency, thats hysterical.

Its almost as if you think the entire voting thing at that level is real. How cute.

If by some miracle the overwhelming support from Democrats moves to Bernie (which wont happen because they control the media, and perception is reality) then they will just put a Republican stooge in there instead of a Democrat one.

Wake up man, you are being played like a fiddle. 100 yrs of Dems and Reps for a reason.

No one- again, repeat - NO ONE can go through the D/R Machine and make a difference.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

9th track:

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Yeah it's pretty clear, we ain't for you

But we can shake it, shake it like we're supposed to do

'Cause We got that boom boom that all the 1%'s chase

All the right crap spread in all the right places

We see the citizens groups working that action to take

We know that shit ain't real (believe us)

Come on now, make it stop ( as we like things the way they are)

If you got apathy apathy - just raise it up

'Cause every inch of you is perfect

From the bottom to the top

Yeah, our Koch he told us don't worry about your stance

He says, people they like a little more BS to hold to at night

You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,

So, if that's what's you're into

Then go ahead and move along

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

We're bringing doody back

Go ahead and tell them citizens groups hey

No, We're not playing - you stink - you're naive,

We're here to tell you,

Every inch of you is played from from the cradle to the grave

Yeah, our Koch told us don't worry about your stance

He says, people they like a little more BS to hold at night

You know we won't support no publc-figure, speaking truth to all,

So, if that's what's you're into

Then go ahead and move along

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

Because you know we're all about that base, 'Bout that base, no action

We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base, no action We're all 'bout that base, 'bout that base

  • by ( mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)
[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

4th track: We support the status quo - though you wouldn't know - cause we are so sneaky and say damn it all - with no plan at all to change it at all. - by mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)

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[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33169) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

[-] 1 points by mdonelly (293) from Mineola, NY 6 hours ago

Can I extrapolate from your comment, "...[he] support[s] the status quo," that you consider yourself to be a rebel for wanting us to vote for one of the two corrupted parties? That's twisted, but thanks for the laughs....

↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

3rd track:

More specious aspersions - as we have got nothing - nothing - nothing else.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)

6th track:

On taking legal action - We so stink - that some might think - that we are quietly buying up fertilizer and plumbing supplies - truth of the matter is - we are just about keeping the public from taking action - cause we are all about supporting the status quo.

  • by (mdonelly & turbocharger - harmonizing - the Cronies singing back-up)
[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8851) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I don't think any treaty position will be determinant. I simply reposted the story, I will most likely write some original thoughts on this over time. Yeah Bernie puts the Green Party ego whores back on their heels a bit, it's a good litmus test for those who are here just to build their own power base and those who want change.