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Forum Post: It's a damn shame how the Green Party hacks have been allowed to destroy this forum.

Posted 5 years ago on March 6, 2015, 9:03 a.m. EST by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Here's a post about something that might actually matter,


but the Green Party "Republican Electors" come jumping in to twist the discussion to the only thing they ever want to talk about. demonizing the Dems.

Damn shame the way the founders let these Green Party scum hijack the movement.



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[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

No. The shame is the Democratic hacks that have been allowed to post here, you being the leader of the pack. You besmirch Occupy Wall Street and all that it stands for with your nonsense.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

anyone should be allowed to post here

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Matt at least you are open about your priority, you would let the knife plunge into your heart rather than strike another, you set a high standard indeed....

[+] -6 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

of course I refer to the larger movement, the Greens crept into the meetings and just stunk the whole place up with their ego feeding shit

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1756) 5 years ago


[+] -5 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

It is true, that it is obvious that anyone who feels the rich are too rich would quickly see how the GOP work to make it so. The question I have for you is why does that brother you so much? Why does it seem more important to you that OWS not fully endorse the Democratic Party than it is to address wealth inequality? What is your true reason for posting here? It seems your chief concern is not wealth inequality but you have a different priority.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

I do not endorse the Democratic Party via Occupy Wall Street and my work here because I've been voting Democratic for over 3 decades and I don't feel it's gotten me or my country anywhere. OWS, on the other hand, speaks to what I believe in, that this 2 party system, both of which have been bought out by corporations, is sick and doesn't work. I have been posting here about wealth inequality since the early days. You are the one here posting about how great the Dems are all the time. Talk to me about facts. Why are half of our school age children living in poverty? Why is the average wage in America a mere $26,000? Why does the average CEO earn 343 times the pay of the average worker when 40 years ago it was around 40 times? Why does higher education cost so much? Why are our children starting out their lives with an average student loan debt of $27,000? Why have wages declined for 40 years? Why do 85 people on earth own as much wealth as the bottom 3.5 billion people? Why isn't anything done to change that? Why does it not seem to matter if we have a Republican or Democrat in office? Why do things never change?

[-] 5 points by turbocharger (1756) 5 years ago

"Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. "


[+] -6 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

it's true your only hope is to not engage, your lies are so easily exposed

[-] 3 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

US fighting in the middle east for 40 years

they'll warmongers anyway

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

The U.S. spends 55% of it's budget on military expenditure.

The U.K. spends 6% of it's budget on military expenditure.

No wonder why we don't have education or infrastructure or healthcare or a meaningful safety net for the unemployed, the disabled, the elderly and the homeless. No wonder why we have an economic system that is turned upside down, that works for the few while dumping on the masses. Sad.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

Things did change but the changes were "changes that you can believe in" but not what were for real. School-aged children can be excused for not taking the matter into their own hands but others must all share the blame. Hold the ones who were goofing off accountable.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

The rich are too damn rich, is the short answer to every issue you list, the problem is the GOP work night and day to make the rich richer and no one seems willing to point that out. You instead decide to come here and applaud those who say the most vile things like "punk ass fuck" to any that won't sign on to your hate campaign against the Democratic Party, In the 1990's working wages were actually gaining on inflation and we had started to remove the federal debt which we all know is an excuse for austerity, but the Greens and Nader decide to go to work to elect W Bush and all that progress was lost, so let's see if you run down the road of denial or are you really ready to discuss the issues and how we address them? I say we do all we can to keep the GOP from doing any more harm, what say you? we are starting to make progress again but just barely where were your posts warning of the dangers of allowing the GOP to win in 2014? You ask why are things not better and do nothing to make it so. here you can see I think public funding of elections so important I speak to it on my profile:


I see from yours you prefer to stay flexible in your positions, that's why there's nothing there

and if you voted for Al Gore like I did in 2000 you must be as pissed off as I am that Nader ran around the country saying he could find no difference and fooled 5 million people into feeding his ego

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

The 1994 election "revolution" de facto forced the two parties to work together. Also the U.S. was collecting the "peace dividend" for having won the Cold War. Besides, the Gulf War to free Kuwait was paid for mostly by U.S. allies. It was not just due to the Democrats being in power that the national debt was worked down. In fact, George Herbert Walker Bush had trimmed the defense budget greatly and totally scraped his "Read my lips. No new taxes!" campaign promise even before the Democrats took power. Reagan ran up the national debt by at least a trillion dollars but his ingenious Alzheimer's affliction and Strategic Defense Initiative combined with the Great Gorbachov ended the Cold War without an armageddon.

Pope John Paul II was also instrumental in helping Poland's non-melodramatic transition to Freedom. Solidarity Union would not otherwise have become the hand-maiden and in-place caretaker of the freed Poland. It is important to give power to ABLE hands. Syria, Iraq, and Libya all had this benefit lacking. George Walker Bush appointed the person with the wrong experience in charge of rebuilding Iraq. It was a colossal mistake to de-Ba'athize Iraq's security forces.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

The election of 1994 was driven by the Ombudsman Bill of 1993 where the Democrats, without a single Republican vote, raised taxes and cut spending in a multi year plan, which after 1994 when many noble congresspeople, great American heroes who voted for the Omnibus bill knowing it would cost them their seats, (and it did), Clinton proceeded to protect the bill through vetoes for the rest of his Presidency, that is why by the end of it we were on track to pay the debt off completely thereby removing the chief reason for austerity and of course the GOP could not have that so we got the tax cut of 2001 to take care of the problem.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

After George Herbert Walker Bush, we have had sinister south paws as our Presidents ever since. There was a study that said that south paws might have been damaged in their mothers' wombs. An interesting hypothesis is that the U.S. was led by sinister brain-damaged south paws ever since the elder Bush.

There is no need to pay the debt off completely. If you have ever been a rich person, you will understand. The rich de-facto owns other people's capital. That is the most important reason why they are rich to begin with. Wall Street is really NOT rich - it is just the face of the rich.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

I blame the Age of Aquarius.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

In those days (elder Bush and Clinton administration), more than a trillion dollars worth of debt piled on in Reagan years for disintegrating the former Soviet Union through the greatest peacetime U.S. arms buildup ever was truly a BIG deal, both to elder Bush and Clinton administrations. We can say that they were scared stiff.

Not so with younger Bush who apparently believed (yep, faith alright!) that deficits do not matter. Oh yeah, I too believe that Assad is hiding chlorine gas generator in his palace basement. Now that is the essence of Enlightenment through faith intelligence. Yes, omniscient God knows everything and chirps to the faithful ones who listen.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Don't underestimate the effect of tax cuts, Reagan the only President in history to raises taxes on working class and cut taxes for the super rich, in the same bill! Now that man had gall.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

It was done with the blessings of Congress mostly controlled by the Democrats. Yep, the man had gall alright. In fact, I would say foolhardy but he surely knew how to make a complete about-face when confronted.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

GOP apologist? You should check the vote on that one.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

Which one? Strictly speaking, bills are only proposals and therefore do not count unless they become laws.

I am no GOP apologist but I am surely grateful that we and the Soviets did not blow us ALL up to kingdom come. Check into how really close and often the Cold War nearly turned into Plasma War!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

So reading from below I see you are a GOP apologist with your "they're not that different" are you stupid or blind? you really don't see much difference between W Bush and Al Gore? you are either stupid or a liar.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

I may be stupid but I was not blind. W and Gored were different but the latter did not govern as President aside possibly from his advisory capacity as Vice President. Gored was far more scientifically literate than duh Wiener. If I state that I am a liar, I must be telling the truth because I must be lying about my being a liar.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

congress understands that nations like Iran can't be trusted because states like the US would lie to go to war

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

which bill are you complaining about? or are you just making excuses for the GOP saying they are not much different than the Dems?

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

congress man claims Iran cannot be trusted because of ???

inherited resolve ?

weapons of mass destruction ?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

You seemed to be referring to a bill by Reagan "to raise taxes on working class and cut taxes for the super rich, in the same bill!" Please identify which one it was.

Ronnie had a very hands-off form of governing but in his eight years in office, he still got more than one bill through Congress to become law.

Whether the Democrats and the GOOP differ by much depends on from where and with what resolution one views them. I have watched them for a few decades so I know the "fruits of their labor." As I have said before, new suckers must be born to replace us who have experience. I am sure that Wall Street agreeing with the God of Eden, likes that very much, too.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

There are ages which are worse - there is no need to blame this particular age for what we all together created. For the criminals, they are still criminals even without the laws to cite. For others, negligence is still a chargeable offense. "All have fallen short of the glory of God. "

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

Our Gulf War victory stabilized world oil prices at a lower level (eliminating the fear premium) letting our economy grow together with much of the world's economy. Economic growth coupled with higher tax rates in place captured much revenue.

The significant thing to remember is that the financial markets value responsible behaviors and reward accordingly. Higher tax rates for wealthier segments of societies, even if they were to capture nearly nothing in revenue sends the message that this government is serious about its financial responsibilities. The borrowing costs drop accordingly. Coupled with economic growth, debts can be reduced fairly significantly.

Show resolve and we will be rewarded accordingly.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

As a forester you have excellent knowledge of the leaves.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

You can drink tea with me on our luxury yacht trip through the soon-to-open fabled Northwest Passage to Fukushima and Mount Kilimanjaro and I will show you how to read the tea leaves and examine the seismographic records.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Ahh the Northwest Passage and to think the journey would not be possible except for the unfortunate blindness of Nader.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

I wish that I could see the world with your single-cause lens but I cannot because reality cannot be simpler than it is. The politics of the Greens did NOT melt the Arctic Ice. The climate change started long before Nader's run for the Presidency. It was actually the U.S. which detected something amiss in the late 1980's that it called for the global convention to address the vaguely sensed global warming change. That eventually led to the Kyoto Protocol.

Surely living up to its reputation as the world's Tex-Ass, the U.S. Congress would not ratify the Kyotol Protocol which the U.S. had inseminated.

[+] -5 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

The Green ego whores like you have been working to divide OWS from the very beginning attacking anyone who attacks the GOP. You are one of the worst offenders trying to hijack OWS to kickstart your political party, you have no interest in addressing wealth inequality unless it involves attacking the Dems as well, addressing wealth inequality by attacking it's greatest champions the GOP doesn't interest you at all and you attack any that suggest it is a good path to follow.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

"The Green ego whores like you....." You are such a low life. And, you're getting lower and lower the quicker you realize your precious Hilary ain't all that.

[+] -6 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Oh I should of said "punk-assed fuck" that's the lanuage you prefer, oh but only if it's being said about someone who supports and votes for Dems, any sort of vile language is OK with the ego whores as long as it helps them co-opt OWS to kickstart their ego whore party the stinking Green Party.

Ego whores like you come here to divide those who would do something about wealth inequality so that those you truly love the 1% can stay in power.

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

Democracy with only two choices that barely differ is a sham. Have another drink.

[+] -4 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

And claiming to care about wealth inequality while working to elect republicans is just plain stupid.

You can talk about choices all you want to but tell me how you are going to keep the Republicans from taking everything and giving it to the rich? Tell how you plan to do that first, because if the rich own it all then who cares how many choices we have? The government will be broke and powerless if the GOP keep winning in the mean time, how many Bushes do we have to live through before your great revolution? Tell me where is it? hidden under the huge GOP victory of the last election? You and those like you put the GOP into power and you are responsible for what they do when they get there.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

Do you really not realize that both the Democrats and the Republicans have allowed the biggest wealth transfer in human history over the past 40 years?

[-] -3 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

The GOP work night and day to make the rich richer, the Dems work to raise minimum wage to support unions to ensure healthcare for all, do the Dems always win? No. Are all dems perfect? No.

But people like you who electing Republicans like W Bush, because you are so full of yourself that you think your way is the only way.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

The Dems work to raise the minimum wage, huh? Really? Well not very hard, it seems, over the past 40 years:


Nothing like sucking at doing your job. Now, I'll agree that the Reps are worse, but come on, the Dems are not the answer. And quit accusing those of us on the LEFT of electing Republicans. That is such a cop out.

[-] -3 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

I'm just telling the truth beautiful, it's not hardly been six months till you and yours kicked a bunch of them evil, Dems from office how are you liking what you been seeing so far?

There is a path to change things radically, by completely destroying the GOP and by doing so bringing down the current system, but you think it more important for people to know you are better than the Dems, than it is to affect change, a common symptom of inflated ego.

[-] 4 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

correct, the voting system has failed the leading parties

the people do not have confidence in the voting system

and thus do not have confidence in congress

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

if the voting system has failed it is because the people failed it, the people are the country they cannot blame others for the outcome, the people put W Bush in office and in 2010, and 2014 the people elected many GOP to office, knowing that the GOP care nothing for the climate, for the working class, or anything other than making the rich richer, the people many of whom just sat out the election entirely have no one to blame than themselves, the people get the government they vote for, even the people that don't vote at all.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

the government should seek to serve the people

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

the government is very responsive to votes, voices maybe not so much, esp. primary votes, which reminds me what do you think about Bernie Sanders?

[-] 0 points by mdonelly (324) from Mineola, NY 5 years ago

"the governement is responsive to votes" laughing. Is that why Obama is trying to push the TPP down our throats??

[-] 0 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

I do not think Bernie Sanders opposes the US air strikes

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (2996) 1 day ago I do not think Bernie Sanders opposes the US air strikes

Have you looked into this or are you just guessing? and just to confirm you would bow to a King before dropping a bomb, correct?

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

I like John Boehner's kissing Nancy Perlosi on her cheek. Hey, if they can get real work done for our people rather than wasting billions of dollars shutting down our government inconveniencing people and damaging national security, they should get Friday Happy Hours every week on our dimes. Whoever is in power must prove that they can govern or out they go.

Radical changes are often damaging to innocent bystanders so you should abhor that as I do. We do not want to end up as Syria, Iraq, or Libya!

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

It is time for the complete destruction of the GOP, anything short of that will result in the coming Monarchy.

[-] 3 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

What do you propose for achieving that?

As for Monarchy, hasn't "Two countries, one party" qualified already?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

'That core binding principle is no different from the other party's. Recall that we have had nearly every combination of these two parties' control of our governmenT"

Bullshit. If you are stupid enough to believe that then you are too stupid to matter anyway. Only the Dems introduce to attempt to pass MW increases it is the Dems that work for universal health care and public education. The GOP are consistent in their support of the rich and the power of money. Are the dems without flaws of course not, but certainly they are far better than say the ego whore Greens, who would destroy the planet to see their name on a ballot. But when it comes to purity no one holds a candle to the GOP, which is pure evil.


[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

Abraham Lincoln was of the GOP. He was and still is revered by most. Yes, money regarding the cotton-picking slaves of the South might have irked the GOP leading to the American Civil War but most will agree that the possibly banal desire had still led to the preservation of the Union and freeing of the slaves. Very rotten grapes can be the making of the finest wines. The United States grew into the global superpower but the split Union probably would have never achieved that. Our motto is, "E Pluribus Unum", remember? Texass is the baddest ass but it is still OUR family's Donbass!

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Given that the core binding principle of the GOP is that the rich should be richer and money should have more power in politics, all it really would take is to ensure that question is put to every Republican running for office, publicly, I don't really see them winning many seats under that condition.

The GOP could be killed and the system brought down in a single election, it would have happened had OWS told the truth already, there really is a huge difference between the GOP and everyone else really, the moment has somewhat been lost but it could be done and every two years we get a chance to do it.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 5 years ago

That core binding principle is no different from the other party's. Recall that we have had nearly every combination of these two parties' control of our government. What did we get? Exactly as you said - the rich got richer and money had more power in politics. Assuming that our government is at all relevant to the distribution of wealth and influence, we must conclude that gerrymandering and heavily funded political elections did not and will not get us off of this rut to hell.

Assume that the Goop were killed, where do you put the functions of our government? Into Slick?

The principle of proportionate response says that if we find deaf ears when we have tried engagement, we go to the next stage of turning deaf ears, too, and try containment. That is where I am at. I have definitely smelled something rotten in our system but we should think hard about what cleaning out the rot may lead to. Keep in mind that high level of radiation was discovered in a Tokyo children's playground. How did that get there? Was it from the cleaning up of Fukushima?

[-] 4 points by BradB (2693) from Washington, DC 5 years ago

Hey Shit Head !!! you like being called names ? ... well no one else here does either !!! ...

you sound like a tiny little baby ... throwing a temper tantrum when he can't get his way!! ... grow the FUK up !!!

the intelligent & caring members here ... argue issues & facts !!!

the Sheep follow party line !!! ... and you are acting like a tiny little baby sheep ... at that !!

[-] 5 points by lugano (1221) 5 years ago

He's on the lam(b) and is going baa-aa-ack to his 'Wolves Disguised As Shepherds' Democratic Party higher-ups for more advice about how to handle people like bw, who just won't fall for his.. 'more of the same - will somehow yield different results', partisan politics. To paraphrase Dr. Cornel West, 'Obama (and The Democratic Party) is a Disaster and Romney (and The Republican Party) are a Catastrophe'.

"Dr. Cornel West - Remaking America, From Poverty to Prosperity" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ4A4K18hOk .

[+] -5 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

have you banned again Shadz?

[-] 4 points by lugano (1221) 5 years ago

Haven't you been banned for shilling for The Democratic Party yet? Watch Dr.West if you dare and ask if he is much closer to OWS and what The 99% need or are the 1%-Pandering Democratic Party? How will Hillary be different to her husband and Obama? Or will she be more of the same or worse? Will The 99% be considered... other than as voters to get her in and then - annoyances to be played and duped? Take your suspicions to the mods so they can compare IPAds and keep trying to make sense of OWS.

With reference to your reply to me here http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-to-take-our-country-back-tax-the-rich/#comment-1057507 .. you do manage to say that .. "I do believe you actually disagree with what the GOP do" in a nice moment of insight into obvious reality and so now just take that final step of realizing that I also do not agree with most of what the GOP-lite do either.Perhaps you can try to watch this Oliver Stone video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc-Xp2DVBjo to see the point more clearly.

Finally, I must link to this very clear reply by "Rollo" - on your recent post, and ask all readers to read it too - http://occupywallst.org/forum/when-rich-people-see-republicans-win-they-smile/#comment-1057522

[+] -6 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Nope I've been here since 2011 using the same id the whole time, because I post for the 99%, while you have been banned many times because you are a political hack trying to co-opt OWS to kickstart your ego driven political party.

I see the problem and urge people to act to reverse the wealth inequality while your only interest is tearing down the Dems in an effort to build your bullshit Green Party.

That's the difference between us, you are a political hack who comes here to attack those trying to make things better, while helping to elect the GOP, why?

Because you love the GOP

[-] 5 points by lugano (1221) 5 years ago

Repeating lies a thousand times will never make them true. I have nothing to do with ''the GOP'' or the Green Party, who have plenty of very good ideas though. You, however - do have everything to do with Dems.My loyalties are with The 99% and I will not hesitate to ''tear down'' all those who will profess to support them but then betray them again and again and again and again - to Banks and Corporations!

Read this - http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-the-power-of-the-1-percent/ and ask how to bring that about in US for your kids and grandkids' sake IF not yours. Please stop fixating on the smoke and mirrors of Corporate R+D'uopoly.It has got and is getting, you nowhere. Also... http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-many-of-us-are-there-die-hard-occupiers/#comment-1057695

[+] -4 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Your work is to elect the GOP nothing more; you care for nothing except how you can help elect more GOP to office and you had a great victory in 2014 running the evil Dems from office all you are is a Dem hater, it is all you post about your only reason for being here is to tear down the Dems and to elect the GOP.

I would ask you to please stop helping elect the GOP wasn't W Bush enough? but I know you will not you are bent on electing more GOP and giving the 1% more power, if it were not for ego whores like you we would have made much more progress by now, we were in 2000 till idiot ego whores like you could find no difference and we ended up with W Bush!

I have been very clear, wake the nation up tell the truth about the GOP and it will fall and with it the whole system will come crashing down, what you do supports the system and keeps it alive.

What you do is well factored into their plan.

[-] 5 points by lugano (1221) 5 years ago

You seem addicted to your own lies and extremely limited analysis of the US electorate and the politics/economics of societal change. You offer no answers outside the 'more of the same - will somehow yield new and different results' paradigm. Good luck with inspiring the young with that.

So, have people in ''the nation'' woken up - to their self-interest, yet? Who is telling ''the truth about the GOP'' to them, other than a Corporate owned MSM? Are Americans - and especially white Americans, receptive to the 'GOP is Evil' message?Or are they just too busy allowing themselves to be scared and manipulated into blaming everyone that isn't exactly like themselves? Is The Democratic Party, offering The99% an analysis of this or a critique of how to change things for the better so as to inspire the kids?

20-25% of White Americans are more addicted to ass-licking the 1% and hoping for either some trickle down or that they too can join the 1%, than they're willing to realise + accept their 99% co-dependence and common interest. They are happy to 'kiss up and kick down', and what was it that Steinbeck said?

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires”! +see http://occupywallst.org/forum/rent-rape/#comment-1057838 for more. Focussing on Wall Street's co-option, control and death-grip is very important, right?

Your strategy of just scaring people with 'GOP = Evil' (which I get) is NOT working. How do you inspire people with the possibility and actuality of real change?With Hillary Clinton? With a different Corporate Banker Controlled 'GOP-Lite'? Other than the usual and tribal Democratic Party voter - just who else is buying that message with any enthusiasm or belief? What do you honestly think OWS is really about?

Did you read this: http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-the-power-of-the-1-percent/ ? Is it inspiring to the young and others?Have you any vision outside one electoral cycle? Or are you just too busy fighting the 2000 POTUS election for that 0.01%er Al Gore....again and again? Or are you so fixated on your simple magical cure - so as to be unable to see the longer term struggle?

Figuring things out is one of the only freedoms we really have left.So Go Use That Freedom. Go Figure!

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

"presidential" rabbit race verges on absurd.

put forward by parties the majority of the people never voted for

[-] 3 points by lugano (1221) 5 years ago

The POTUS races are a kabuki... calculated to maintain 'the charade of democracy' in the USA - where both sides are controlled by Banking Corporations and any choice is merely illusory. Perhaps... here is what its about http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/thefederalreserve.htm and where the solutions may be and see http://wagingnonviolence.org/feature/how-swedes-and-norwegians-broke-the-power-of-the-1-percent/

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

all of life is an illusion, even the bombs...

[+] -4 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

You seem addicted to your inability to see the real world, your constant attacks on democrats do nothing but elect the GOP, when this is pointed out or you are asked about it you run hide, your behavior on here makes it clear,


The path is clear, completely wipe out the GOP, the system will fall and we can build anew

[-] 5 points by lugano (1221) 5 years ago

''Bernie Sanders Announces He Is Running For President In 2016" -


In standing against The Billary Machine no doubt Sanders too has an.. ''inability to see the real world'' and so must be party to secret plans to... ''elect the GOP''! Why does your - ''completely wipe out the GOP" depend on a 'Neoliberal at home; Neocon abroad' Bankers' Friend Hillary Clinton? Do you think heavily propagandized, Bat Shit Crazy GOPers will just dissolve into thin air, because you wish it so?


[-] 1 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Great news to hear on Bernie Sanders running.

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

ahhh is Bernie screwing up your plans for power and glory? has it got you all tongue tied?

[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

People on here, posting crap like "It's all about the Hag" are as disgusting as any banker on Wall Street so if I get a little angry it is in the great spirit of OWS.

[-] 4 points by turbocharger (1756) 5 years ago

Wow, just when I think you couldn't possibly get any dumber...

Still wanna roll with the duopoly? Hell ya, lets go!


[-] -2 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

The only stupid people on here are the ones that believe your shit, you are a con, more worried about government spending than wealth inequality, it is hacks like you that sabotaged OWS and have been instrumental in its demise.

(not you personally you are an idiot, but the general infection of the Greens has been disastrous to the cause.)

[+] -5 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Hey shit head, you like GOP policies?

You sure post like you do. Why the hell are you so fired up on electing more GOP?

Is it the Dems aren't su@king you off just right, or what?

I guess how rich the rich are doesn't matter so much as your precious point of view, so we should all just acknowledge what a wise saint you are and all the people trying to keep the GOP and 1% from stealing it all are just dumb after all being heard is so much more important than public policy right?

and you got every right to come here to elect republicans if you want to, and I got every right to tell people you do that

[-] 4 points by Narley (272) 5 years ago

Everyone keeps arguing about the Dems and Repubs. When will people realize we're past the point of political solutions. We're past the point of voting our way out of this mess.

Real change will come when something catastrophic happens. Maybe another great depression, maybe a financial collapse, maybe WWIII. I don't know what it will be, but nothing will change until then.

[-] 5 points by turbocharger (1756) 5 years ago

Unfortunately, when it does, the elites will have a good idea it's coming, and have some bullshit solution along with a charismatic clown to parade out there with all the answers.

And the people will follow along as usual. My prediction with this one is another financial disaster. Its been 7 years since the last one, so we are due. Nothing really changed except printing a shit ton of money and lowering rates to 0.

I'd like to see what their solution for this next one is going to be.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

When greed gets to the point that people can no longer pay even the minimum interest on their debts to stay alive, maybe then, something will happen. As long as Americans can whip out the plastic and keep living on debt to "appear" to be living a respectable life, the revolution is on hold. When it finally happens, and it will one day, it isn't going to be pretty, I don't think.

[-] 5 points by Narley (272) 5 years ago

I agree. No one can predict what or when the next "thing" happens. But whatever it is. it will be messy. If it really get bad and society breaks down and we lose civil order it could get bloody. Just too many people with guns looking for an excuse to use them.

I'"m not predicting it will be that bad, but I think anything is possible. I believe it's a matter of when rather than if.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

It would be much easier if the greedy would start sharing before anything worse becomes inevitable. I think we'd all prefer that. Jobs that pay wages people can live on without going into debt, for one thing, would be a good place to start.

[-] 5 points by Narley (272) 5 years ago

I think it's wrong to assume that any change will be for the better, when in fact change may well mean things will get worse. Think a 3rd World America.

When people are cold, hungry and scared they will do whatever it takes to care for their families. Political causes and social agendas become much less important. People will follow whoever can provide jobs and security; and their only interest will be survival.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

Well, I'm hopeful for a revolution if things get that bad. History tells us that people make revolutions when things get that bad, and history repeats.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

What we have faced in the past is that when a large "critical mass" develops to create and sustain change, like when we finally balanced the federal budget in 1999-2000 timeframe people start to split out because they want more they want their own thing and we end up with things like the Nader run and the W Bush win, something no one thought could happen but so often does when we are close to real change, more recently we see this in the 2010 and 2014 elections, you would think things like OWS would make it harder for conservatives to win yet it seems now that wealth inequality is out in the open, people are fine with expecting someone else to fix the problem.

[-] 3 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

what should we hire the people to do ?

[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

It's not about "what" the people do. It's about revamping the economic system so that it works for the people and not vice versa. So, it's about having an understanding that regardless of what work a person does, it is necessary to pay them enough money to live decently on. This is because we are human beings, and we should treat each other as such.

We need a "human" labor theory of value that puts people over profit.

[-] 5 points by elf3 (4187) 5 years ago

But it isn't that they don't know they are mistreating people...some people enjoy that. It gives them a warm little feeling inside when they abuse others. So I think it isn't that we need to convince anyone or keep making all of these logical points. It is that we need to stop them ...everybody knows as the saying goes. We are pawns in a game they control. We can't get control by asking nicely...can we? They think we're funny. We have to stop being funny to them and start making them afraid. We have numbers ...they have money. So did the french aristocracy...numbers won. The wallstreet aristocracy should know their reign is almost done.

[-] 6 points by Renneye (3874) 5 years ago

"Rise, like lions after slumber

In unvanquishable number!

Shake your chains to earth like dew

Which in sleep had fallen on you:

Ye are many—they are few!"

From: The Masque of Anarchy (1819), ~ Percy Bysshe Shelley



This very subject has been my contention right from the beginning. Shine a light on them. The oligarchs and other ruling elite hide behind their corporations. Corporations cannot run themselves. They have owners. That seems to get overlooked. Indoctrinated by media. It is intentional. Even so-called revolutionary alternative media. It's how I can tell the difference between media that is truly for the 99% and 'controlled opposition'. It's been so cleverly indoctrinated that, even here, many say 'corporations rule', or, 'corporations have taken over.' Corporations are not people. They are not capable of hurting anyone. It seems silly to have to point it out, but, there it is. The owners and other oligarchs need to be identified, headlined here...loudly...and brought to justice.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

One thing!

Part of taking out these sociopaths is taking out their hired muscle and/or getting that hired muscle to abandon them.

Hired Muscle like the Police - the National Guard - The Army - The Navy - The Air Force - The marines - the alphabet soup of FBI DHS CIA DEA etc etc etc

Yes the 1% greedy bastard sociopaths - may be few in actual numbers - but they have many hirelings.

EDIT-> Those with family who are in "ANY" of the services need to do their best to reach out to them. Yes it is a hard thing and a contentious thing to ask - but it is necessary - if the power structures of enforcement are to break free of their corrupting masters/leaders/employers.

I think the Secret Service might be open for recruitment - just look at em - partying with hookers while on the job - preparing to meet security requirements of a sitting POTUS arriving in a foreign country - or - just lately showing up drunk at an incident ( or was it they who caused the incident while drunk? ) - any way - has anyone EVER heard of such creeping ROT in the Secret Service? Kinda makes one think that they are not on the job because government has totally disillusioned them - and they are the prime inner circle of the defense of the leader of government.

[-] 6 points by elf3 (4187) 5 years ago

Add to that corporations advocate for a lack of empathy and injustice they have done more violence and damage around the world than any protest group who they threaten to label with terrorism...while we advocate for fairness, empathy, and peace. We don't want stuff for ourselves, we want fairness for all. Who is the terrorist in this equation? Who is the oppressor? Not Occupy. Who are the bad guys? The third world slave laborers...is it them? Who partners with a despot Regime and follows the orders of Chinese Communists? Not Occupy. The real bad guys are the corporate ceos and decision makers who bribe our governments as well as attack our freedom ,privacy and dignity. An entire civilization for every 500 ceos...so they can be richer than everyone else. It's about having more stuff and more power...not about sharing or providing. We see the lies as plain as daylight. They are corporate terrorists. This is not aggression or terrorism...Occupy is the SELF DEFENSE of the PEOPLE against a growing Corporate Regime. At what point after they continue to ignore us and refuse to back down or have a peace chat with the people, will they force the hand of a necessary war?

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

air strikes kill lots more than the CIA does

weapons distribution kills even more than airstrikes

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 5 years ago

Good comment. And the greedy bastards that have all of the power at this point in time could care less what their abuses of people and the environment will cause tomorrow - BECAUSE - they figure - THAT - they have theirs and will die from natural causes before any of the repercussions of their programs of destructive pollution come to haunt them.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

I'm totally in agreement. We have to make them share. Period end of story.

The problem is that most Americans are too busy feeling bad about themselves and ashamed of their economic situation because they don't know that it isn't their fault. They don't know that this is all a set up and that it doesn't have to be this way and that economic systems are man made and thus can be, and are, controlled by man.

[-] 4 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Good points. If job providers don't provide living wage ( and half of children are in poverty, hard to raise yourself up from such a low level, and environment, when from poverty) we should provide plenty of humane food stamps, and housing reimbursements tio workers, to raise all our standard, and boost all our well being, and the "economy" which grows from the expanding middle class!

We need to go forward. I hope, Soon, through karma and common sense prevailing, all the wealthy bastards who are screwing us politically through their representatives, our peoples' branches of congress, will learn we are all part of a human community.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

Right, gsw. Our government is supposed to provide for and ensure the general welfare of the people. This would require ethics in government and a government willing to stand up to corporate interests to ensure that the citizens, the human beings living in the nation, are generally in a healthy state, both socially and economically.

We, however, have a very sick government. It cannot go on like this. How can America have half of it's school age children in poverty? Only by having a government that has no mandate from the people and that has been bought and paid for by the wealthy and the corporations. If that doesn't get fixed soon, I'm afraid elf is right, that revolution will come. People only stay down for so long, history tells us.

[-] 5 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Yes it will happen. When the old bastards, and I am in that group by age, who hold power and refuse to listen, it happens. They should have listened more perceptively, wisely, represented as is their legal moral, political duty and responsibility, to those much is given, much is expected.

We are all responsible, in a democracy/republic. Maybe that is not what we have now, so rules and laws become trampled, and it's unfortunate.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

It's very unfortunate. You know, OWS has shed more light on this than any other group and it's still not enough. You'd think the greedy grubbers might be rubbing their chins by now, saying, ok, we'll throw something to the little guys, the workers who break their backs to spend their days worrying how they'll get from one day to the next. You'd think they'd throw something! Something! But, nah, not a thing. It doesn't bode well for the future.

And, sadly, as you mention, the generations who do have more have been quite lacking at fighting for the younger generations who clearly have less and less, the younger they get. We've been alienated and atomized. It's capitalism at it's very best.

[-] 5 points by mdonelly (324) from Mineola, NY 5 years ago

I do not want the "greedy grubbers" to 'give' us anything!! Rather I want them to return what they have stolen from us! Crumbs will undoubtedly be offered to appease us, divide and even conquer us. That's not an option! Instead we should all want our fair slice of the pie, and we must have justice restored.

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

We have every right to our slice of the pie and you know the saying:

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy, President of the United States

[-] 4 points by mdonelly (324) from Mineola, NY 5 years ago

Who we are as a people, or our collective conciousness is being challenged, and it is growing by the day, while shedding light on the inequities that are being pushed by the plutocracy. There are deep divisions forming between aware, caring people, and those who are still sleeping, or who benefit from the corrupt status quo. That is especially the case with more idealistic, young people and their often less cognizant parents. More people who refuse to to sell out to the highest bidders are being lauded, and those who do cash in are being vehemently criticized. That is long overdue, and it is a very positive development.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

When humans begin to realize that more for everyone is more for themselves and when they can break through the fear that capitalism has rendered them in, then we will break free from the political and economic tyranny that we sadly find ourselves in now. Yes, it is up to the young people to overcome this militarized, consumerist society. I think they can do it. Solidarity to you mdonnelly!

[-] 2 points by mdonelly (324) from Mineola, NY 5 years ago

It is extremely unlikely that capitalism, especially the corrupt way it is practiced now, will meet our needs in the future. At the top of the list that it is no longer viable is, our evironment can no longer support it.

[-] 4 points by turbocharger (1756) 5 years ago

This level of corruption will fuck up and give us the same results regardless if its socialism, communism, capitalism, etc.

Our problem is, imo, overwhelmingly the corruption mixed with the inability of the general population to pull its head from its ass.

There isnt an ism alive that is resistant to this stuff. We've seen some of the most horrific acts against humanity practiced under them all.

Ill take any ism with an engaged and aggressive population over the ism of choice with this population, any day.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

I agree that capitalism is on it's way out. It's unsustainable. If we continue on this path it will be not only to our peril as human beings, but also the destruction of earth's ability to sustain any life at all.

Here's Chris Hedges on "The Myth of Human Progress."


"The human species, led by white Europeans and Euro-Americans, has been on a 500-year-long planetwide rampage of conquering, plundering, looting, exploiting and polluting the Earth—as well as killing the indigenous communities that stood in the way. But the game is up."

Capitalism, you must be put on notice.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

oppression is not enforceable without violence

[-] 3 points by mdonelly (324) from Mineola, NY 5 years ago

You're right, "oppression is not enforceable without violence." Convincing us that the last 40 years or so, in which our liberties have been being trampled on, is the new norm, is paramount to them in the continuation of more egregious assaults to us in the future. They have a lot to lose with an awakened populace.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23319) 5 years ago

Perhaps it is the same for overthrowing oppression.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

It is really pretty simple, jobs don't pay enough that's because there are fewer unions, that's because Republicans like Scott Walker signing "right to work" laws, people get upset when they don't get what they want, unions get upset at the Dems for caving to the environmentalists and they get upset when the Dems cave to the unions, while the rich can be safe knowing that all republicans will always put their interest first and foremost, so the rich win, it is really pretty simple. Oh and without public funding for public elections, everybody has to beg the rich for money to run, they got that going for them too.

[-] 3 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

So we change it by?

Get all the lazy dregs to fill a ballot, to provide life credits, and sustainable jobs, billed to Uncle Sam. Outlaw "capitalism" that impinges health of humanity, especially in medicines, which is terrorism.

Own a right to a decent life campaign

[-] 4 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Should not we all be rich, with the natural wealth, minerals, and knowledge of the universe at our fingertips?

We can build ourselves a better condition....for those below median income, and this should be at the state level, which can seek from national resource pools, proper reimburesments

Education, food, housing, health credits, 85 percent 99 percent reimbursed through immediate tax credit,

[-] -3 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

like I said it is really simple, tell the truth, the truth is useless as it cannot be swayed to your advantage, yet it is the most powerful force on earth, the truth is the GOP work to make the rich, richer and the rich are too damn rich already, tell the truth tell it long tell it hard, those who are in this for their own power may not get what they want, but the GOP would lose and be forced to explain "broaden the base and lower the rate" and the world would change, all we have to do is tell the truth

[-] 2 points by gsw (3324) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 5 years ago

Ok. The Gop party, republicans, are domestic terrorists against the USA, and our rules of law and government, they imperiled traitors and puppets of the rich.

Nice article on all this below


[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

the NFL plays against the AFl; in the superbowl

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

mistake or lie? sometimes hard to tell, but it is the NFC and AFC that play in the Superbowl, when telling the truth, one is entitled to one's own opinion but nots facts

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

i predict airstrikes in Iraq and Syria tomorrow

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

I forgot to check did this happen?

[-] 0 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

US airstrikes never stopped for a day

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Really? There is an air strike every single day?

So you're not going to vote for this Bernie Sanders guy either I take it.

[-] 0 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 5 years ago

I'm not going to work fr the weapons industry

I'm not going to support the US war

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Was that an answer?

I get it if even your vote was the difference between Bernie and Jeb you would choose to keep your hands clean (as you see it).

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 5 years ago

I absolutely agree.The victims of Hurricane Katrina were abandoned just as we all shall be when environmental,economic and natural disasters finally intersect.After seeing the live video of desperate Americans after Katrina,I saw what the Plan is.That night I had a dream of walking on a silent highway jammed with cars occupied only by the Dead.I really don't think Americans are willing to believe that the Elites have made the arrangements to save themselves while throwing the rest of us under the bus.That's what happened at Chernobyl.Everyone figured it out and after that nobody could ever believe in the USSR anymore,and it ceased to exist.I expect a similar sequence of events in the case of our own thoroughly corrupt and dysfunctional system.Hopefully we will transition into a better situation,but it will certainly be even more catastrophic and turbulent than the Collapse of the USSR was.

[-] -3 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Certainly if we continue to fail to wisely use our votes catastrophe is coming, look at the last election where turnout was the lowest in 70 years and the GOP had their biggest win decades, and with ego whores like the Greens grabbing up all the fools they can to feed their lust for power there really are fewer and fewer actually trying to do anything about wages and the planet melting and such as that.

[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 5 years ago

Labor has supported the Democrats for decades.They literally got nothing in exchange.African Americans have supported Democrats for decades.They have literally gotten LESS than nothing for their loyal support.Women turn out for the Democrats in election after election.Their loyal support has paid off with-NOTHING.After all these years,anyone can see that the Democrats can't be expected to stand and fight for the People in the Congress,or shift policy in a progressive direction when they win the executive branch.Denying that you are a party of the 1% can't be taken as the truth unless there is evidence of some kind that you will oppose militarism,institutional racism,institutional sexism,corporatism,and globalist trade agreements that all hurt the 99%.The Democrats either openly support those things,or fail consistently to roll back or stop the rapid worsening of all of those trends in the US.That is why US citizens are currently the Leading Edge of the catastrophic Race to the Bottom.The Middle Class with their disposable income was the engine of our economy in the past.Now the middle class is too small and poor to turn things around-and it continues to shrink.Bold policy initiatives are needed to put America back to work.Democrats are famous for putting band-aids on Sucking Chest Wounds and excuses when that strategy fails.And so,their feeble efforts and excuses have come to be seen as attempts to cover actual collusion with the Republicans,because everything and anything they do is open collusion,ineffectual,or window dressing.You call it Hope and Change,I guess.Everyone else calls it a Knife in the Back.

[+] -5 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

So I gather from your post you prefer the GOP, you believe only the GOP really delivers for their voters so you support them and help to elect them as you did in the last election where the turnout was the lowest in 70 years and the GOP victory the largest in 87 years. Would you care to tell us more about the wonderful things you believe the GOP has done throughout the decades so we can understand why you support them so.

Of course in the case that you don't really, really love the GOP tell us how would you keep them from writing laws?

The Greens of course love it when the Republicans win they hate the Dems so much and they care nothing for the country they are pure ego whores who are just in this for themselves.

I call it the GOP are pure evil and anything that lets them win is stupid as shit.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

I see the Green Party hacks are rolling out Howie Hawkins the ego whore in chief.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

Is there any thinking person who honestly believes Jill Stein is an acceptable alternative to Bernie Sanders? Did you see her in the debates in 2012?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

I guess there was an adjustment to reduce the influence these political hacks have on the board, we will see how it works out.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8258) from Phoenix, AZ 5 years ago

I just felt like this needed a bump for some reason.