Forum Post: PUBLIC VOTE OPTION on COMPETING Democratic vs Republican VERSIONS of Congressional Bills.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 11, 2011, 10:28 p.m. EST by david19harness
(87)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
White House website sponsored petition: http://wh.gov/bhC
PUBLIC VOTE on the COMPETING FINAL DEMOCRATIC vs FINAL REPUBLICAN vs INDEPENDENT VERSIONS of a CONGRESSIONAL BILL. For example, both the Republican and Democratic parties claim to have tax code and healthcare reform plans. It is time to show these plans to the public in writing. Here the media polls and media talk shows would have something real to talk about before submitting the competing versions to the final decision-making responsibility of We the People.
We the Signers demand a PUBLIC VOTE OPTION be incorporated as a new legislative continuing JOINT RESOLUTION. Binding on Congress itself to pass along the public majority winning version of a bill to the President. The legislative precedent being no legal difference between a joint resolution and a bill.
Petitions receiving 25,000 votes in 30 days, are referred to evaluation followed by OFFICIAL WHITE HOUSE STATEMENT. Website RULES are sponsored petitions CANNOT be SEARCHED on WhiteHouse.gov until receiving 150 VOTES. Following link, same as above, is only way to initiate petition.
Steps to vote on White House website petition:
Visit http://wh.gov/bhC and sign in to White House website with: (a) First name. (b) Last name. (c) Zip code. (d) email address.
White House sends you email with link back to petition, where you can click on "sign this petition".
FOR THE RECORD. As indicated in the comments, nucleus has found the COMPETING VERSION of this petition on the White House website: https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/we-demand-vapid-condescending-meaningless-politically-safe-response-petition/gCZfn86x
sounds like a horrible idea.
Horrifying idea actually. I've been promoting this PUBLIC VOTE OPTION idea for 20 years, I describe it to a Democrat or a Republican party operative, or Political Science Professor and get the same reaction: They get sucked up and don't say anything.
So far that's the real value of the thing.
i'm not saying they are accomplishing anything. i think the only real good they've done is open the dialogue. i don't think there's a particularly large set of good ideas coming out of this thing.
The dialogue has been going on for years and years, just now reaching a new crescendo...cacophony...We the People milling around in the streets...treading water...trying to out-flank each other with clever comments. How deep is it where yer at?
i don't think it has. my progressive friends seem to just be discovering some economics.
Your comment "i don't think it has." is extremely telling. Meaning you don't think the dialogue has been going on for years. I disagree. We are all Children of VooDoo Economics (i.e., the fallacy of the Reagan-Democratic borrow-and-spend tax cuts of the 1980 Deal-with-the-Devil now coming due in 2011).
The Reagan-Democratic tax cuts never paid for themselves right from the start. Hence they're called "Slippery-Slope" tax cuts, temporarily stimulating the economy, requiring further tax cuts, printing of money...to the present point of the bankruptcy of Western Civilization.
I've heard the same things they're saying now, over and over, starting from the 1980 Presidential election: "We need to get this stimulus passed now...but at some point we'll have to...." You and your progressive friends, who are just discovering economics, are not starting anything yet...just coming in at the finish.
i'm not saying that nobody was talking about it, i'm saying that there seems to be far less people talking than their should have, and i think OWS has some more people talking about it. kind of. you are making some pretty broad assumptions regarding myself and what i think about this movement as well. fyi i'm not progressive i'm a libertarian.
Progressive, Libertarian, Republic, Monarchy...one thing the Conservatives, Communists, and Liberals all said in the beginning: "In the End the govt will just wither away!"
Clearly the Moral Authority of the Govt has withered away...wherein perhaps this is the central thing OWS is in agreement on? Yes/No? Choose wisely.
Crook "A"
Crook "B"
Please select one.
(both work for Crook "C", who is running the whole show).
Yes, nucleus, you make a correct analysis of present broken system. Crook A makes campaign promise of Plan A. Crook B makes COMPETING CLAIM of Plan B. Neither actually has Plan A or B, because they're all hookers workin for Crook C. We the People are just selecting our favorite beauty contestant (who all want world peace).
Say however OWS causes the PUBLIC VOTE OPTION petition http://wh.gov/bhC of its thread here to receive the required 25,000 votes in 30 days, so that the White House by its own rules has to make an official statement to the world media.
Now yer analysis becomes highly critical nucleus, if you would please write the first rough draft of the White House official statement:
https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/we-demand-vapid-condescending-meaningless-politically-safe-response-petition/gCZfn86x
FOR THE RECORD: The link nucleus has posted is a White House website sponsored petition already drawn up, with over 11,000 votes. Which nucleus submits here for an Official White House Statement regarding the PUBLIC VOTE OPTION:
"We demand a vapid, condescending, meaningless, politically safe response to this petition.
Since these petitions are ignored apart from an occasional patronizing and inane political statement amounting to nothing more than a condescending pat on the head, we the signers would enjoy having the illusion of success. Since no other outcome to this process seems possible, we demand that the White House immediately assign a junior staffer to compose a tame and vapid response to this petition, and never attempt to take any meaningful action on this or any other issue. We would also like a cookie."
Our government (politicians) responds to money, and if you really want some service, start buying senators (there are only 100 of them) and congressmen (there are 435 of them, but you don't have to pay them them as much).*
*Best results obtained when you buy a majority of both parties.
Yes exactly, that's the point of this PUBLIC VOTE OPTION, to re-direct the CASH FLOW so that the CORPORATIONS would cut out the middlemen lobbyists and create media ads to tell their truths, half-truths, and OUTRIGHT LIES to We the People directly...instead of having to rely on the UNSCRUPULOUS POLITICIANS to do it for them.
You really don't get it, do you. You think a petition can compete with hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign, PAC SuperPac, 504(c) and other "legal" and illegal funding.
BO spent $750 million to buy the presidency. It could be argued that he "won" because McCain only had $450 million. Where did all that money come from? The bigger campaign fund wins election 85% of the time
The next presidential election is expected to spend over $1 billion directly on advertising alone, and that does not include spending on 33 senate seats and all 435 house seats.
It's more than that, in Oct 2008 when the world was "just hours from a global financial meltdown" the global banking casino financial derivatives exposure was about 170 trillion...far from "solving the crisis" now the global banking derivatives exposure is about 290 trillion. There is nothing stopping the coming global financial meltdown, including all the official denials we'll hear right up until the last minute.
This PUBLIC VOTE OPTION idea http://wh.gov/bhC is about what could come the MORNING AFTER the crash...just an option to revive the Constitution from its present near-death experience.
We continue to be in agreement: global economic collapse is inevitable and imminent.
We will have to disagree about the petition, because the collapse will make a petition even more meaningless than it already is (if that is even possible).
It is possible for the petition to mean even less to you than it already does. Fortunately it will mean more to others rather than less, certainly you would grant your colleagues at OWS that measure of personal opinion.
That said I see the ultimate meaning of the petition is it condemns the two parties by their own standards...meaning continuously calling for meaningful citizen involvement in politics...because it's an informed citizen's responsibility...and so on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum...yet sabotaging the voting machines, free speech, and free assembly every step of the way...for which the present two-into-one-party system is guilty as charged.
I figure that should be worth clicking on a link. So see ya, thanks for stopping by.
Making demands recognizes authority. Recognizing corrupt authority legitimizes tyranny.
OWS doesn't make demands.
What you still here, ha. No demands- the word is Justice. Words matter, another is Yah-ta-hey, Navajo greeting "like the devil". Third is let's see, The Art of War. Recall all warfare is deception, the #1 Constant Factor to the Victorious is Moral Authority. The quantum information field evolution operator generally proceeding along those spacetime event world lines.
Legislative PUBLIC VOTE OPTION re-strikes the BALANCE OF POWER between representation and democracy, effecting CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM via re-directing the CASH FLOW. Not sure how? Sign the petition and find out, effect starts immediately.
Voting? Politics? Are you kidding? This is what the OWS is about. Corporations control our government and our economy. Voting has done and will do nothing to change anything. The OWS should continue to do actions on the streets (and, in my opinion, in the homes of people that are facing foreclosure/eviction) to make real change. NOT to get involved in politics. OWS is a social movement, NOT a political movement.
I see you started a new thread, with your "Voting? Politics? Are you kidding? ... NOT a political movement" reply/comment. I post your links here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-a-social-movement-not-a-political-one/ and http://occupywallst.org/forum/keep-politics-out-of-the-occupy-movement/
Congratulations, I noticed after the first hour your first VERSION was up to about 36 comments. Now a day later its up to 238 comments. Note that you have two COMPETING VERSIONS of your own ideas. In which looks like you found the OWS intellectuals area of interest in making clear the distinctions between the COMPETING VERSIONS of OWS being either a Social Movement vs Political Movement vs Anarchy Movement vs...perhaps a FRACTALS Movement, and so on. Should make for interesting reading when this whole OWS Forum record is printed out in a Journal.
Huge contrast to this thread's White House website petition link: http://wh.gov/bhC Which if it got the 25,000 votes in 30 days it would cause the White House to make an Official Statement on the merits of having Informed Citizens vote directly on the competing versions of Congressional Bills. The merits of actually getting meaningfully involved in the legislative process, because its their responsibility to make the govt work...and so on, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
Well with only 4 votes, the world is safe from that.
While the War of Words rages on your thread. Recall however from THE ART OF WAR, "all warfare is based on deception." And in I. Laying Plans, Sun Tzu says the #1 constant factor to the VICTORIOUS is Moral Authority.
So say you're a general in the Social Movement camp...Howz the war goin general?
Your statements tulak, "OWS is a social movement, NOT a political movement." ... "OWS should continue to take its actions to the streets not to the halls of corporations/congress" attempt to make a distinction between social movements and political movements. However, the definition of your COMPETING VERSION of OWS is that of an ARMY.
OK fine, what WEAPONS will your CITIZENS ARMY competing version of OWS be taking into the streets, against whom exactly?
well, that's typical. if you are a conservative, then, you think "action" means killing people.
OK I repeat, what MEANS exactly are you suggesting by which: "OWS is a social movement, NOT a political movement." ... "OWS should continue to take its actions to the streets not to the halls of corporations/congress" ...?
WTF are you talking about? my statement is self-evident. I couldn't say it any clearer than "black is black" and "blue is blue". what are you babbling about really?
More Constitutional amendments have dealt with the extension of voting rights than any other matter. The PUBLIC VOTE OPTION of this thread, via the White House website sponsored petition http://wh.gov/bhC is advocating the next logical step in the extension of voting rights within the system. That's what I'm talkin about.
[Removed]
Just watched "Zeitgeist Moving Forward 2011." Yeah, the "Monopoly" board game is the perfect analogy. Job #1 of both parties is to keep the broken system broken, spinning everything new apart by its extremes. Every election polling for what our concerns are, taking those concerns to focus groups, to figure out what new lies to tell. Then new candidates make new campaign promises, culminating in a bait-and-switch = business-as-usual.
ZEITGEIST asks "What matters?" I realize OWS is a diverse group, some want OWS to be an ARMY, some want CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM, some want to interject DIS-INFORMATION and DISORDER. This tread suggests to OWS and Zeitgeist what matters is INDIVIDUAL SOVEREIGNTY.
Promoting the MEANS (as much as govt is capable) to ACT on it in accord with - dare say it SPIRITUAL GROWTH. Focusing the present INFORMATION SYNTHESIS REACTION along the lines of Shankara's Hindu Sanskrit concept of the self-realization of cosmic consciousness. Wherein we're all heterogeneous facets of cosmic consciousness, as the basis for individual sovereignty - as opposed to the false personalities of the global corporations (see "The Aristocrats" joke movie: http://www.netflix.com/Movie/The-Aristocrats/70024091?mqso=80030196&mkwid=s77KMadVP&pcrid=7515573084&gclid=COLajtvlsawCFQVlhwodqVwaHw).
Tired of hearing OWS isn't promoting any intelligible means of reform? Is that what's got ya down bunkies? Let's call their bluff. Sure, look at the big picture, consider all ideas and solutions...then y'all still need to break the legislative decision-making filibuster. This is where the simulated democracy goes live.
Good post.
OK FINE y'all, by your own self-definitions tulcak and gnomunny, OWS is NOT a social movement, it's an ARMY.
My comment about good post was in reference to your original post Dave, not to any subsequent comments. I believe I was the first to comment on it. Check the times.
My bad, glad you stopped by again to point that out. Looks like after you posted it got tucked under tulcak's somehow. Anyway my friend, thanks for making that first comment.
No problem. The layout of this website does tend to make it hard to follow the conversation. I much prefer a format that has them chronologically, oldest to newest. I wonder why they didn't do it that way?
I agree about the chronological format. Oldest to newest, is the proper format for reading through these posts like a journal. However, in the actual practice of communication of writing, I think we still need to have the newest comments at the top. What d'ya think of a toggle switch between the newest-to-oldest / oldest-to-newest formats? Course that could invite another glitch in the matrix.
Yeah, the toggle idea is good. You'd think they would've incorporated that into their layout since so many sites are set up that way. I've seen other suggestions too, like having sub-formats. If this thing continues to grow, maybe they should completely update it. That's what I think they should do anyway, but I also hear they're not too quick on responding to suggestions. That sub-format idea was proposed at least two weeks ago.
politics will not change anything. OWS should continue to take its actions to the streets not to the halls of corporations, oh, I mean, congress.