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Forum Post: Looks like TRUMP is the man.

Posted 6 years ago on March 9, 2016, 2:39 a.m. EST by Shule (2638)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

With Bernie Sanders slipping more and more behind in the delegate count against the Hag, looks like the only person left for the anti-establishment crowd, left or right, is Donald Trump.

I heard somebody say while at the grocery store the other day, "I don't care what he [Trump] says about me, so long as he might put money in my pocket, I'm pulling the lever for him."



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[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

"I don't care what he [Trump] says about me, so long as he might put money in my pocket, I'm pulling the lever for him."!!! That's just fkn ridiculous and tantamount to hoping that some RWNJ billionaire will bribe y'all! ACA costs average American family $7k+/yr BUT Universal Healthcare would be circa $500 increase in taxes (shock, horror) BUT - must be offset with less/no Health Insurance Premiums & their bull-shit deductibles and co-pays! Also fyi, please consider:

No doubt about it that Trump can win GOP nomination ... IF the party establishment don't chop him off however, though the other Neoliberal Nutjob HRC is preferred by The 0.01% - Bernie can beat 'em all IF folk like the person u overheard can STOP; Think & decide NOT to be Turkeys Voting For Thanksgiving!

ad iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

No care is better than Obama-care for most all people.

By the fact the Trump is hated and feared by the party establishment is enough to vote for guy.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

I'm Pro-Universal Healthcare & I was NOT defending The ACA!!! It is essentially The Heritage Foundation Plan to further entrench the interests of The Private Healthcare Mega-Corps!! There is No Way that I can comprehend, believe or accept that Donald Drumf - is, in any way shape or form, a preferable POTUS to Bernie Sanders - but then again .. I am pro-OWS; The 99% & have NOTHING whatsoever to do with The Republican Party! Li'l more to say here right now really .. bar my sincerely recommending this to you ...

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Good for Bernie, but the fact is that the Hag will be selected to be the Democratic nominie. Even if Bernie wins every primary remaining, and wins every delegate left, he still will not have enough to win. Bernie is for all practical purposes already history. So, the only real question is should one pull the lever for Trump, pull the lever for the Pshyco-Hag who is going to start WWIII, or do we just say screw it, and stay in bed on election day?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

43% of Registered Voters are Independents and that is the sleeping GIANT fact of US Politics right now. Furthermore, I agree with DKAt's reply to you here too. Finally Shule - I believe that there's every chance that it will be a Contested Convention in Philly and, that there is still time for those undemocratic, Super Delegates to realize, that while there is every chance that tRUMP will beat Hitlary ... EVERY poll on the matter - shows Bernie beating The Donald with clear double digit margins! Also fyi, please consider this:

dum spiro, spero ....

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

But the problem is the Democratic elite are way too hung up on their darling Hag to give Bernie a chance, and Bernie already said he is not going to run a third party campaign.

[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

What Bernie said was that he - ''would not run as a spoiler'' BUT he is waaay beyond that now ... he is a viable candidate for PotUS and he and The USA's 99% know it. People can #FeelTheBern and - are very keen, verging on desperate, to vote for him in November. I think (hope and believe) - that the duty for him to run in November is/will be - overwhelming. This is what it is really all about ...

Which starts with this excellent preamble .. ''The American people must make a fundamental decision. Do we continue the 40-year decline of our middle class and the growing gap between the very rich and everyone else, or ... do we fight for a progressive economic agenda that creates jobs, raises wages, protects the environment and provides health care for all? Are we prepared to take on the enormous economic and political power of the billionaire class or .. do we continue to slide into economic and political oligarchy? These are the most important questions of our time .. and how we answer them will determine the future of our country.'' - before it lists & expands on all The Issues Americans face & the Solutions he proposes. Click and have a look Shule.

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 0 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

So Bernie is going to throw a few bones to the poor and working class. But it does not look like he will change the fundamental makeup of our political/economic environment. What is the big deal?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

I have NO IDEA what the basis of ... "So Bernie is going to throw a few bones to the poor and working class.'' .. is or where you're getting that from!!! Are you really expecting any new POTUS to come and just flick a switch and ''change the fundamental makeup of our political/economic environment'' in one quick easy step?!! Do you actually think tRUMP ''is the big deal'' over Bernie for The US' 99%?! + Fyi:

What is tRUMP's platform that is going to ''bigly'' change shit for The 99%? And who is closer to OWS' original demands and platform? Does it matter that Herr Drumf is a billionaire who inherited his wealth? Repugnant Establishment may not like him & consider him a maverick BUT is that reason to vote4DT? Bar Hillary type lip-service to The 99% & xenophobic finger pointing; what real solutions is he bringing?

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

It can become really serious, Shule. I don't want the U.S. to go down the path to be in the boiling-hot water like a Venezuela or a Zimbabwe. Bernie may be the ONLY one who can save us from the certainty of the election result of monster v. monster. Bernie, prepare to go Third Party! Help!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Bernie, prepare to go Third Party! Help!!!

[EDIT] Monday is his last chance.



Lets get busy

Let Bernie here from you before Monday as to why he needs to re-register: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/contact/

Yes people - Bernie to hear from you from "here"

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Let Bernie hear from you before Monday as to why he needs to re-register: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/contact/

I've sent a few similar to the following:

Bernie should re-register as an independent to ensure his ability to continue his run through the general election in November.

I do believe Monday the 9th is Bernie's last opportunity to do so.

Re-registering should give Bernie all kinds of power and leverage going into the democratic convention.


If there had been no closed primaries - THEN - Bernie would likely be leading this race in pledged delegates.

That some 520 Super delegates pledged sHillary Rotten Clinton prior to the race even beginning shows that the DNC was working from the very start to FIX the race.

I tell you - Bernie's true supporters - those who see the absolute need for the political revolution - WILL NOT VOTE FOR sHillary who is basically a republican with a d behind her name - who those with eyes to see - know is wealthy establishment catering to the wealthy few. and will go right back to supporting TPP and the Keystone pipeline and expand fracking and other fossil fuel access. ALL OF THESE THINGS AND WORSE.

You think that a large portion of the population is disillusioned NOW (?) - wait and see how much worse it gets if Bernie does not get the DNC nomination AND has not planned ahead to continue his run as a 3rd party independent democrat.

[-] 0 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Unfortunately, Bernie is no revolution. He is a sheepdog. Just watch what is coming.

[-] 0 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

I'm not sure sure Trump is the monster he is being made out to be. If you can look past his rhetoric, he single handedly routed the entire leadership of the Republican party; something all the liberals and progressives for thirty years have not been able to do. And as for Bernie what is he doing; going out to say he supports drone strikes and wars in the Middle-East. So, I am suspicious. Watch, Bernie will be supporting Hillary within the next few months having done his job in hearding the liberal sheep back into the Demcratic party.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

On the road to Damascus, GOOP Pump tapped into the power of the Silent Majority. I hope that he is truly well intentioned. He surely knows how to raise people's blood pressure readings with his rhetorics. The collapse of the creditworthiness of the U.S. must not be allowed to happen. Without credit, our economy can nearly grind to a halt (unless we go down the path of 'das dritte Reich').

We'll see what Bernie will do. Will he go Third Party? He also tapped into the power of the Silent Majority. His goal initially was to pull the Democratic Party's platform left but it has gone far beyond that because he has a good chance of winning the Presidency should Mx. Cheese get indicted and sent to prison.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

The DNC is hung up on catering to the wealthy. Not as toxic-ly as the republicans (yet) but still pretty badly.

Which is exactly why Bernie should continue as he is through the dem convention - but - be ready to continue as an ind if the convention screws him as I expect them to.

Either sHillary or tRump would be a travesty for this country.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

The FBI interviews Huma Abedin, Hillary Clinton's closest aid today, 5/5/16. What shall we make of that?

It ain't over 'til it's over folks.

GO BERNIE! Stay in until November no matter how you have to do it. You will beat the imperialist and the fascist!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''Seize the Moment'' by Sen. Bernie Sanders:

Yes, it's two and a half years old BUT relevant and prescient,imo.

Also, from just after the start of OWS in Sept. 2011 ... ''Despair is Not an Option'' by Bernie Sanders

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

If California be our true love, the Queen, there will be a contested convention, likely followed by Bernie's holocaust. I'll then press '3' on our globalized world's helpline for T. Rex to barge through the bamboo wall of China to devour Mx. Cheese sitting on the toilet. Jurassic Park will give rise to the Cretaceous Period in which the laboratory mice will discover that chuckie cheese is better.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Bernie can still register as an independent prior to May 9th and continue on to the general election. At the general election - the millions of his supporters who were disenfranchised at the closed primaries will be able to vote for him. Yep independents as well as registered & disenfranchised democrats as well as disenfranchised republicans.

[-] 3 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

i hope Bernie will do that.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

I have sent him a lot of e-mail urging him to do so. I have signed and forwarded a petition asking him to do so.

It only makes sense to me that he would to be able to continue the race no matter what the f'ed up DNC decides to do.

He won Indiana tonight = an open primary.

I think people should rally to invalidate closed primaries as being un-democratic!

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Bernie already said he is not going to run a third party campaign. You might be better off writing the FBI to hurry up with their investigation and get her into jail. Or pray that her eyeballs will fall out of her head.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

I believe Bernie has said that he wouldn't run as an independent if he were going to be a "spoiler" but....ahhhh.....as a winner, he just might. Have hope, will ya?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

LOL = eyeballs popping out of her head. Yeah looking at some of her crazy eyed photos I sometimes wonder how close they are to popping out.

Also funny = that foreign hacker lately coming to light saying he hacked her personal server. USA extradited and is talking to him now. Seriously don't expect anything to come from it all though.

If the public can not change Bernie's mind - then - this country is really screwed come Nov

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

tRump is the posterchild for afluensa and pretty much everything else that is wrong with the GOP and government.

[-] 3 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Trump is the only guy who is saying shut down them Middle-East aggressions; wants to make peace in the world .
Trump wants to get out of NAFTA and all those other bad foreign trade deals.

Trump wants to shut down offshore banking and other overseas tax havens.

Trump wants to have anyone making under $50k not pay taxes.

Trump wants to shut down drug dealers.

Trump wants to shut down Obama-care.

Sounds like a pretty populist platform if you ask the common man.

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

If one didn't know better and they believed him, Trump seems a bit more palatable to a lot of people. If I didn't consider him a bag of wind, a liar and a racist pig...... I would say that he shines next to Hillary. Imagine that, Trump driving the Hag further to the left! ...lol

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

A wind bag, liar, and pig is preferable to a pscyho lizard in a woman suit who drools on blood. At least he may well be wind bagging, liaring, and pigging for us. We all know what a lizard is going to do.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Trump is the live-virus trial vaccine but Mx. Cheese is the long-enduring chronic 'dry-rot' disease. It's called 'dry' rot to fool the low-information voters. Dead wood doesn't rot from dryness - it rots from the opposite, namely wetness. The present ist ein Gift. Don't get wet, Virginia. Santa Claus is missing but we the laboratory mice will dance through the arctic night.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Be realistic. Middle East's aggressions are partly due to our aggressions. We cannot even hope to achieve any sort of lasting peace there because that region was fractured beyond all recognition by tribalism, sectarianism, colonialism, authoritarianism, fundamentalism, etc. for millennia. The U.S. cannot expunge the biblical 'filth in men's hearts' with even the most powerful military force but we can reduce our aggressions. Let the sore wound fester by itself and call it 'freedom' for the peoples there.

NAFTA and all those bad foreign trade deals need to be abrogated. 45% tariffs are an excellent start.

Obama says that everybody is walking around with a Swiss Bank account in their pocket so he wants the government to have access to data on all electronic devices of people: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-government-cant-access-phones-223422581.html Although he was supposedly a constitutional-law scholar, he may have forgotten 'habeas corpus' that underlies our Bill of Rights. Sucking around for too long in the cesspool tidal flats of the District of Colombia can destroy brain tissues with algal toxins and poisonous drugs.

Kaiser Drumpf will certainly appreciate the means-of-control preparation for his ascendancy. "Wir brauchen amerikanische Staatssicherheit. Amerika, heute; morgen, die Welt."

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

The U.S. can very easily unilaterally shut down most all of them wacos causing trouble in the Middle-East. All it has to do is stop funding them.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Much of the funding for the wackos came through our consumption of oil. That's not going to end anytime soon with our idiotic people (especially those living in cities) starting to buy more SUVs and trucks again. The money flows like this: oil consumer -> oil producer -> islamic charities and foundations -> wackos, both allies and enemies.

Yep, if you see that huge truck or SUV in the city being used by the idiots who live in the city, you are seeing the face of urban terrorism as well as the source of the so-called islamo-fascism. My old-school-gaming generation calls that 'consumption' for a very good reason. The U.S. got tuberculosis after having lost virginities with Theresa Carmody on the green sofa!

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Trump is a fascist hater. He's vengeful, arrogant, opportunistic, narcissistic and divisive. Not exactly what America, the melting pot of the world, needs.

Although he does point out what the problems are, he has no plan to solve them. Go to: https://berniesanders.com/issues/ for some real ideas and not just vomit from a blowhard braggadocio.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

It looks like Trump is all but installed as the GOP nominee so supporting Bernie now is critical. The pay-for-play super delegates must be made to understand the importance of Bern it down or they will get, "You are fired!" from their voters' base. Either do Bernie, Bernie, or there will be Trump, Trump, Trump for at least several decades of Fascism-biased rulings from the Supreme Court.

Paging all oysters of Dumbo, keep this chart in mind when you vote: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/03/13/1-chart-every-middle-class-american-needs-to-see.aspx

The U.S. is still number one in its middle class' share of wealth as long as you believe in Jesus (that the first shall be last and the last shall be first). "Here comes Jesus, walking on the water. He'll lift you up and He'll help you to stand." U.S.A. U.S.A.!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

A shrinking middle class means more are in poverty and more are suffering, hence the backlash against the establishment that got us here.

Bernie Sanders is the only one who can get us out of this mess with any sense of decency. Feel the Bern and learn how to Phone Bank for Bernie here:


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

There are anti-poverty legacies from the Reagan years when the political system could reach compromises: inflation-indexed income tax and earned-income tax credit.

They said that people who worked should not live deeply in poverty and federal government should not steal so much value of people's incomes through arcane means hiding in plain sight(i.e., by printing money - I'm of the Austrian school of sound money which claims that inflation is ultimately caused by a government's monetary supply expansion without basis).

The American Dream consists of making people living in poverty believe that they are not 'poor' but they are actually poverty-stricken. Jesus said that the poor will always be with us (but they need not be the same people all the time in a dynamic economy). Being stricken by poverty but not being 'poor' can make a huge difference in people's happiness, just as the itty-bitty Hope fluttering last out of the opened Pandora's Box can.

Bernie, Bernie, Bernie, to the rescue!

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

No one, in the richest nation on earth should be living in poverty. Yet something like 49 million are. Do we sit back and allow this to continue? Do we whine and say oh, we can't do anything about this! The establishment won't let us! It's rigged forever! I don't think so. I think we fight back. We fight back and end the American nightmare that we've been living in for 40 years.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

I saw mice playing parts in "The Nutcracker." That's an inspiration. I must watch the cute squirrel hugging the acorn hopping up the tree.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Since the Yom Kippur War of 1973 and the resulting Arab Oil Embargo, wages have gone 'postal' because at that time first-class postage cost 8 cents and now it is about six times that.

Until our populace figures out why 'going postal' doesn't mean becoming six times richer, all is for nought. Hints: Sound money <> Phony money. In Gold We Trust. Truth <> Truthiness. In God We Trust. Bathtub brewery in Saudi Arabia. Casino in Indonesia. Speakeasy in Amerika.

Langston Hughes wrote, "For if dreams die, life is a broken-winged bird that cannot fly." As long as our people can't figure out how the wing has been broken and towards which direction the bird should fly, we'll continue to be the laboratory mice starving in the snow and ice of North Pole where Santa Claus supposedly lives.

Our globalized world's helpline says, "¿Hablar usted Español? Können Sie Deutsch sprechen? 你说说看。Press '1' for English. Press '2' for Spanish. Press '3' for T. Rex. Press '4' for bamboo wall. Press '5' for Mx. Cheese sitting on the toilet. Press '6' for 'going postal'. Press '7' for magic mushroom. Press '8' for oxy-con-tin. Press '9' for nucular 'exchange'. Press '0' for infinite loop."

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Even if you put the U.S. back on the gold standard, Austrian economics is still lacking in that a "free market" inevitably exploits if there are no checks and balances. Just saying.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Maybe I misspoke that I am of Austrian school if that means "free market" and "gold standard" to you. I believe that "free market" has never existed and never will because my definition of a market is a set of protocols and regulations accepted by the market participants. Without just regulations there's no market so shut down whatever contraption making the false claim.

Gold is what people commonly believe to hold value so yes, I think that some backing of the value of money by gold makes good sense. However, gold occupies that special place due to its indestructibility, recyclability, and fungibility. ANYthing satisfying these criteria when accepted widely will do. Ultimately, it's the labor represented by the item that will determine its minimal market value. I'm therefore not a gold bug. We probably need something more than just gold for a modern economy but going overboard with creating money "out of thin air" inevitably leads to bubbles which are better characterized as the "boils" of the biblical plagues.

Sound market, sound money - not phony market, phony money. Real pay for real work.

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

I wont go into the biblical side of things, but " the strong from preying on the weak " is probably an accurate analysis at this point.

We are weak. WE the PEOPLE are weak. We are spoiled. We have totally opted out of running our cities.

That needs to change.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

I like the metaphor of "the quick and sighted ones robbing the slow blind ones" better. Anyone without preferential treatment in the Wall Street world of finance are most likely the slow blind ones who have the overlapping financial claims on the same assets through fractionalism. China tried to do the same smoke-and-mirror trick as the U.S. stock market and was partly burnt. China is really an algal bloom that suffocates a number of smaller fishes through category killers like Walmart.

Yes, we the people need to take back our country, states, legislatures, executive suites, boardrooms, cities, towns, streets, hospitals, schools, etc. in our proud heritage of self governance. There are things better done at larger scales due to efficiency such as Medicare but we the people must regain control of many things. I have started to wonder if the ACA or Obamacare was actually created to kill Medicare gradually as some seemingly ridiculous people (keep government's dirty hands off of Medicare) might actually be very prescient. I saw how 401(k)'s and IRA's were instituted and then the company pension plans for most people disappeared.

Wealth (essentially a fissile material called plutonium - pluto means "rich") is being divided amongst fewer and fewer humans. In the limit of dividing wealth amongst sub-humans, die Untermenschen, (i.e., half humans can possess twice what they have through fractionalism's magic when they were fully humans), wealth can multiply without bounds until the critical limit is reached.

[-] -1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Not sure if an "ism" exists where people are not being exploited.

I think the best way to look at it is, is what system allows people to innovate and provide opportunities for each other?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

A system that provides the freedom of enterprise framed by bounds and encouragement arising from Mercy, 仁。

仁 = 人 + 二 = person(s) + two

For any two persons who gather in His Name, Jesus referred at Matthew 4:4 to Deuteronomy 8:3, "He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD."

Manna is the transcendent bread organized with the Word between you and the LORD.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Not saying get rid of the federal level. Im saying they have no business being involved in much of anything besides commerce infrastructure and national defense. Flint is the perfect example.

They are sucking all the money from the states and going to war with it. Its not hard to figure out. All those bailouts and subsidies? From us. All of it. The debt is paid with the credit card, there is over 2 TRILLION a year they are sucking from us. Its absurd. They are tyrants. They need to go.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Identify "they" specifically and I'm sure "unserer herrliche Drumpf" can command, "You are fired!" to those under his command but he may not be able to do much to the cesspool.

Flint proved that the state government of Michigan was inadequate, incompetent, or malevolent. If you can come up with a better way to stop the strong from preying on the weak aside from having the strongest one called the government being in charge, let us hear it.

The government enforcers to be effective must necessarily be the number-one gang of them all and of course, it will fall into corruption unless it has the moral compass to be a servant of the people. That means a very strict adherence to the rule of Law with a dash of saving Grace bending the Law for Love at appropriate times.

The Law said, "The Wages of Sin is Death." Jesus raised Lazarus from Death so was He defying the Law? What did Jesus say about the Law going away? Not a single iota till the end of time! Is there a contradiction here in the Bible? The Word trumps the Law because the Word is Love, Grace from the Will. Law is a means, not an end.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

"Submit your proposal to the city of Flint and get people working and drinking healthy water."

See, thats the thing. All that grant money was ours to begin with. The Feds take it all, then they horde it, then they give it to their special pet projects, then they come in and say "we will save you".

Fuck that. Get them out of our lives 100%. They need some tax money for intrastate roads and national defense? Fine. Take 2% from each of us, that should be more than enough.

Other than that, fuck em. Fuck all their alphabet agencies that protect the corrupt and hammer on the little guy. Screw their "Dept of Education" who wants nothing more than to make us dumb consumers. End their EPA crap that only protects the oil and auto industries.

Let the states handle it all. Better let, let the communities handle it all.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

If you are so incensed about assuring healthy water for Flint, think about the tax expenditures shelled out to the corporations every year. It's in the same order of magnitude as operation Iraqi Freedom. We can restore 10,000 Flints EVERY YEAR by eliminating corporate welfare.

A federal government shutdown costs more than $1,000,000,000 a week. With Ted Cruz leading the way, we got two weeks of that. Saving that loss, we could have restored 20 Flints. What's more important? Shooting a hole in our national pocket to leak out billions and trillions of dollars to make a moot point (worse yet, the U.S. was downgraded by S&P) or getting people healthy water to drink so their children will not grow up mentally challenged and criminally inclined for life?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Let us assume that Flint got an exaggerated round number $100 million from the federal government. How many Flints can we restore if mega-Wiener didn't launch operation Iraqi Freedom ("gewissermaßen Selbstmord aus Besorgniß vor dem Tode" - Otto von Bismarck on preemptive war: so to speak committing suicide for the fear of death)? Let's make it easy and say an underestimated round number of $1 trillion. We can restore 10,000 Flints!!! Vote "NO WARS."

Not all that grant money is ours to begin with. It's borrowed with our national credit card.

If the states could handle it all, our Founding Fathers wouldn't have created the federal government. I really wonder if you have studied U.S. history. If you did, you might have discovered the struggles and travails the individual independent colonies had in relinquishing a few of their powers to the federal government (European Union is struggling with what the U.S. overcame nearly two centuries ago - remember that in Kosovo, the U.S. military was the only one that could do the heavy-duty liftings although it was a European backyard).

Even a loosely-coupled confederation proved inadequate. Without the federal government, there would just be the multiple rebellious provinces of America instead of the United States of America. Do you see the colours? Get out of the boot! Oh, say can you hear?

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Repying here:

This is what happens when you mess with the communities. The people of Flint were so dienfranchised from something as basic as their water that they had no idea this was happening?

How does a community have no idea whats going on with the water? How does a community not come together to fix it?

Because its someone else running it, its someone else to fix it.

DecentralizeEverything #OccupyEverything

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

The Flint, MI community knew the problem early and General Motors knew not to use the water because it was rusting their auto parts. The real issue was how to get the ones with the powers to do something. Apparently, states' right won out and the EPA bowed out.

Twice, I had similar problems with two medicines that I was taking. Each time, I stopped them cold because my body was telling me that they were doing me wrong. Each time, it turned out that they were eventually banned. This is why I say that my body talks and I must listen well. I recommend this to others, too.

We are really all laboratory mice dancing for Virginia while starving in the snow and ice of North Pole, with Santa Claus missing. We must keep the cheers through the long arctic night.

The crux of the matter of potable water is not about decentralization or centralization. It's about having competent and moral people in charge. The EPA backed off because the state of Michigan had the jurisdiction upon assuming the receivership of Flint and it appointed financial klutzes who see spreadsheets but no Human lives. Damn the depraved finance idiots! Damn the morally bankrupt Retardican government of Michigan!

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

I can get my guys to repipe an entire house for $2500.00 Retrenching and running new pipes per house should not cost nearly that much.

We are talking about next to nothing to run that section along the road and then up to the house. This isn't rocket science.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Your figure looks like both you and I are within ballpark range $100,000,000 to $1,500,000,000 to replace Flint's pipes. Flint already got tens of millions of dollars of federal grants so if your figure holds true, Flint can at least get the replacement process started this spring when weather warms up. Submit your proposal to the city of Flint and get people working and drinking healthy water.

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

" It's about having competent and moral people in charge."

I agree whole heartedly. So when the problem arose, where were all the people of Flint to step up and put together a funding plan to get the pipes replaced?

This is what I mean. We, the people, have been out of the loop for so long, we dont even know what it takes to manage our communities at this point.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Flint, MI became ward of the state of Michigan because it got into deep financial troubles. The people were not capable of supporting their municipality's financial needs. Let's say it costs $1,000,000,000 to replace the pipes. Flint has about 100,000 residents. If evenly shared, each resident needs to come up with $10,000. That's not going to happen for the already financially strapped people of Flint. A solution is to impose a long-term tax on all government workers of Lansing to pay for an ongoing replacement of Flint's pipes.

The people "outsourced" their governmental function to Lansing, MI but it shirked the responsibility. Based on how market prices are determined, the people of Flint should get to swap residences with the governing ones in Lansing. If the swap occurs with no complaint, it has become a just swap.

The more I think about it, the more upset I get because it seems that I was treated as a laboratory mouse, and so were Flint's people.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

How to organize human beings socially is quite a conundrum but perhaps more important than innovation is economic fairness because it is through economic fairness where opportunity to find meaning in life is provided. Innovation may be one person's meaning in life and poetry in the woods, another's.

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

No one hates the oligarchs more than I do.

But we have to empower that 18 year old who wants to change the world, to the fullest. That girl who is dreaming of becoming the best doctor possible. That boy who knows he can be the best teacher ever.

This is what made us the most incredible nation the world has ever seen. More people immigrate here from all over the world than anywhere else.

We have MASSIVE problems, and we have gotten away from the hustle attitude that made us, becoming complacent and letting the politicians run wild.

I am just such a big believer in humanity that I believe if you leave communities alone, they will come together and take care of people for the most part. But when you start putting strangers from afar in teh mix that promise the solutions, so dont worry, you rob people of their humanity. You destroy communities.

We are social beings. We love each other. Its incredible how good we are to each other considering how it could easily be otherwise.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Well, don't you think that universal healthcare and jobs that pay a living wage and free education would empower people to do just that? I really don't see the argument against Sanders' platform.

Human beings don't want to have to think about these basic things and providing them for one another. They, in large part, want the government to do these basic things for them. Then they are free. See the polls, most Americans identify with socialist policies.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

The EPA certainly let the state of Michigan "take care of" the predominantly poor and darker people of Flint, Michigan. Oh, say can you see?

What a terrible mess! It's unconscionable. It's not as if no one knows water chemistry. It's just the callous attitudes or the biblical "filth in men's hearts" that had caused the horrendous mess.

There must be bounds. Governments must be governed.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

"Human beings don't want to have to think about these basic things and providing them for one another. They, in large part, want the government to do these basic things for them. Then they are free."

This is exactly why we are in this position. People don't want to have to figure out how to care for one another. Or educate one another. They want to be able to play on their iphone for days on end.

I watch the polls. I watch them every election, when over half of us just want them to leave us the hell alone. Then you have another 25% that goes because of the constant brainwashing from the establishment that "its your duty"...

So ya. We have about 20% keeping this thing going. Keeping the war machine going, the bribes going, it all.

Thats the only polling I watch.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Well, I really don't want whether or not I have healthcare or whether or not I earn a living wage to be at the mercy of my neighbors or any other random group of individuals. I want them legislated so they're a right that no other single person or group of people can take these things away from me. That's what governments are for. That's what laws and regulations are for. So that my natural and human rights are secure to me. Inalienable rights.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

You are, of course, correct as always but respecting people's freedom means letting them walk off the cliff if they so choose. Decades ago, my generation nearly blew it ALL up several times but we lucked out by the plaque of our teeth. May Lady Luck smile again on the new generation holding the passed torch in the gas terminal. That's awesome raw power! Good luck!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

A populist platform he has no belief in and no intention to actually pursue beyond garnering votes. Pretty much like (exactly like) HRC trying to claim Bernie's campaign for herself. This grabbing and running with the populist platform is working really well for tRump because it appeals to the common worker who the rest of the GOP establishment have alienated pretty thoroughly over the last 40 years - problem being the lack of education combined with the disgust for establishment politics has tRumps supporters supporting the embodiment of everything that has shoved their face into the mud BECAUSE he is not a professional politician.

tRumps supporters are actually hungering for Bernie - they just don't know any better.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

tRump supporters know Bernie is a lost cause. That is why they've defaulted to tRump. As caustic as he is, tRump is the only option left outside the Wall Street greed machine.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Well, it is official. Hillary is going to be the Democratic nominie as she garnered enough delegates, dubious or otherwise.
Short of her eyes falling out, a lizard popping out of that woman suit, and a bolt of lighting out of the sky hitting the lizard, Bernie is pretty much done for.

Sure, I can see it now, the Hag's establishment will throw a few bones to Bernie, and his cause, like maybe a free lunch at the local university or something, to pacify the good people rooting for Bernie; to con them into voting for the Hag, only to see the token socialist agenda re-neged once elected. I can only say, Folks don't be fooled.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Bring back my beautiful to me.

Rossiya, Angina et al may have the leverage to dethrone Mx. Cheese sitting on the toilet behind the bamboo wall before Tera eRex barges through it. Hmm, it may be even more valuable for them to keep it as a leash on the U.S. (blackmail is passé, possibly wasis, and too last-century; eekmail will be newly understood) so they probably will not use the leverage to meddle yet. Most of them prefer the predictability of Mx. Cheese.

Liberty beckons.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Gotta continue to rail against the dark.

I betcha tht u @dailykos would have loved to remove 1/2 of this conversation http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=4VdrWexMU5kv3Uko2tUDNtDQOPT0LoZS … U know = the sane anti-wealthy est 1/2 https://twitter.com/DKAtoday/status/742089900376358916

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

And so the stray sheep are being herded back to the flock.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

That is exactly what the DNC want's Bernie for......a Judas Goat

I've suggested to him that he not comply and just continue to endorse replacements for those who need to leave office - like he endorsed DWS's opponent.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

He needs to start a third party, not try to reform the corrupt Democratic Party.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

I agree with you, that third party would be the most effective way to go. Millennials have no allegiance to the Democratic Party and people who have been let down for decades by the Democrats would be happy to have an alternative. I think Bernie would win if he ran on a new third party ticket. He could also go with Jill Stein and I think he'd win that way too.

Of course, staying in and trying to reform the Dems is better than dropping out altogether and saying "vote for Clinton." But third party would be the very best way to go.

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

Trying to reform the Democrats is a diversion. If we formed a viable third party... we would be on our way to a solution. The only way Hillary will follow through on any concessions that she may make is to force-feed her some truth serum. Thanks Bernie for all you've done. We've got it from here....

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Agreed. There was no more opportune time or candidate than Bernie Sanders going third party after the loss in New York. Ho hum. I appreciate that he's not full on dropping out and telling us all to "vote for her" but I am disappointed. The pace of change is actually really important to millions of people and "reform" just isn't enough. Too slow and won't be enough. I will be voting for and supporting Jill Stein who will be on the ballot in November.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

It never has been about reform - per say. It has always been a matter of cleaning house. GOP as well as Dem! Removing the ones who cater to the wealthy few. Hint for removal without ever looking at a voting record = is the representative who is of the wealthy few? Good chance they support the wealthy few. We can survive a lousy president = SHillary or Drumpf - as long as we have a worthy senate & congress! Currently the near total working majority - consists of the very toxic GOP. Movement forward of third party candidates would be a good thing dependent of course on the individual and their beliefs - just like any dem or GOPer.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Reform vs cleaning house... you are still talking about the same company.

The parent company needs to change. This should be obvious. The fact we cannot do this, is pathetic.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Bernie Sanders should be going third party either with a newly formed party or with the wonderful Jill Stein of the Green Party. Reforming the Democratic Party doesn't end the duopoly, does it? Once he knew he wasn't going to win the nomination, ie. after New York, he should have flipped 'em the finger and gone independent.

I suppose this call to reform the Democratic Party at the convention and going forward is better than simply dropping out and saying "Vote for her" but I am way disappointed.

You and Viking were right. I was right that he was able to get his message to so many more people by going with the Democrats, but you guys were right about how rigged and vicious the whole thing would be.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

We can survive an unworthy president = sHillary or Drumpf


The People need 2 clean house state & fed

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Trump is a master promoter. Getting shut down did more to get him air time than the fighting inside ever could have.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Bernie will win. He'll win despite the media blackout, despite the establishment support for Clinton and despite those on the far left who refuse to lift a finger for him.

Writing him off is premature of you and the many pundits out there who underestimate a. how knowledgeable the American people have become (in large part, thanks to Bernie) and b. how much they want real change.

There are thousands of delegates to go and many Sanders friendly states coming up. FEEL THE BERN!

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Bernie just lost in key states Ohio, Florida, Illinous, North Carolina, and is falling further behind in the popular delegate count. It is not looking good for Bernie.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

There is still a viable path forward for Sanders. Will he definitely win? Are we 3 year olds in preschool who need to win win win and need the biggest slice of pizza or we'll throw a tantrum in the corner? I hope not.

No, of course, he won't definitely win. He started out with 3% and is going against the most famous woman in the world bar some singers and actresses. But you must be listening to MSM that tells you there is no path forward. You are falling for exactly what the establishment wants you fo fall for. "Give up, there's no hope." There is hope. The states coming up lean for Bernie. And, there's hope in the millions of more people that Bernie can reach in the meantime, whether he wins or loses.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

At the risk of sounding like I have sour grapes, or that I am a conspiratorial nut, I think it is safe to say that Hillary did not achieve her successes in a natural, organic way. This forum, the posters who rode rough-shod over it, especially in the earlier years could be viewed as a microcosm on how important it was to them for our revolution to be crushed.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Sounding even more conspiratorial, I believe Bernie is/was part of the conspiracy. Watch come convention time, he'll bow out and defer his delegates and alliegence to the Hag. There never was a "revolution" on his part. Only a diversion so as to prevent a real revolution.

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

I don't think it is a secret that I am no fan of Sanders doublespeak, but I do think that he has done an amazing amount of good for our struggle. And I also think that he had to agree to make a deal with the devil, or show support for the eventual winner in order to get the benefits of running as a Democrat that he has gotten. I just hope that he can perform one last act of ambiguity before doing the right thing. I would hate to think that you are right, and that his candidacy was just to sheepdog the dissidents back into the Democratic Party.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

So who IS real Shule? Did you not get the memo that he's forging on past this election? I suppose not since you haven't supported him. He himself says this movement is bigger than himself and bigger than this one election. The guy is educating the masses in a way Occupy couldn't even come close to doing despite all it's successes and all you do is criticize. Sad, really.

[-] 3 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

I did vote for Sanders in the primary in my State, and should he win the nomination, I'll certainly vote for him. However, having said that, one needs to keep one's head in reality, acknowledge the probabilites, and be ready to play the next viable option.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

It was completely realistic to support Bernie Sanders. And, had the left not been divided like it always is and had Jill Stein and Elizabeth Warren and people like them gotten behind Sanders, who knows where we'd be. It's been a very close race. But, nah, they had to be "realistic" and look at "probabilities" and "inevitabilites." Sad, is all I have to say.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Socialism for all its worth has been around almost as long as Capitalism. One can almost say they're jointed at the hip. A little left a little right, but one is still on the same dance floor, bowing to the same old same old oligarchy who dangle their pathetic green backs before us which makes puppets of us all.

Did you ever think that the real revolution may be with Trump?

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

My concern is that Trump may not have enough good advisors to fill him in with the absolutely necessary background information about the inevitable and unexpected 'incomings' arriving at sometimes fiendish rates.

The Presidency is a 24/7 365 all-weather sometimes-no-real-vacation-carpe-diem job. All Presidents have very visibly turned gray and old under the pressure of the job. It's the most powerful office but it can be really really lonely and lonesome being cooked under the pressure. The U.S. doesn't have a parliamentary system (that can turn on a dime once a majority has been achieved willy-nilly through alliances if need be) but instead has a checks-and-balance system that often generates gridlocks (as designed!) so even the most powerful can be rendered rather powerless.

Trump can offend people even before he has to deal with them. Relationships take finesse, time, and rapport to cultivate but can be very easily and quickly damaged.

[-] 3 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Its obvious that Trump is already pissing a lot of people off; mostly the Wall Street crowd. I suppose that is what makes him so attractive to very many ordinary folk.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

He pissed off the rich folks behind the super PACs. He's lunatic businessman but lunacy also has its phases, both good and bad. Businessmen are used to compromise or else they never survive. Lunacy is more preferable than insanity (which I admit has afflicted our Presidency before) because it is vastly more predictable. I know when to avoid the tides' inundations by looking at the moon and the sun.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

No. Trump is an oligarch, don't be fooled.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

But he is not a wall street oligarch. What other choice is out there?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Bernie is out there.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Of course, Bernie is my first choice as long as he's not shut out by the demonkrapts. Trump seems to be potentially capable as long as he has his heart set on serving my people. I suspect that Bernie will be machined out so a live-virus trial vaccine will be acceptable because desperate times call for desperate measures.

The long-term consequences of the supreme court appointments will be endured by posterity, not be my problem, really. Kicking the can down the road is expedient but people have been blown up doing just that - a rather ugly sight! Just close my eyes and everything will be alright.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago


[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Listen to Tweety and he shall teach thee.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Tweety woke up millions of people. Good job, Tweety. Thank you, Tweety. The political revolution continues.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Matt. 3:16.

Tweety eating the fly is the natural order of things.

Fly loves crawling into and all over any soiled diaper. How many flies can hatch from a soiled diaper of a boom-boom tritium-dated baby's? Easily more than two hundreds.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Good reason to vote Trump. all other candidates want to continue the wars.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Yes, I like Trump for this reason but I really wished that he had the poignant experience of John F. Kennedy of war's bitter fruit first-hand as a sunk-torpedo-boat captain tending to his crew.

Kennedy's being able to save the world from "nucular" war depended greatly on his war experience after his colossal blunder of allowing the Bay of Pigs invasion to go ahead. He found the courage to defy his generals wearing the "fruit salads" on their chests and exercised great restraints instead. He was a changed man after the close encounter brushing against the End of the World. We got some safeguards such as the direct hotline between the White House and the Kremlin and "nucular" test ban treaty.

It's time for a direct hotline between Pyongyang and Washington, D.C. We don't want any unintended consequences from the misinterpretation of intentions. "Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let's never fear to negotiate." - JFK.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Do what you must to convince youself of the nature of the two parties but don't be overly emotionally invested in the outcome. It's inherent in the nature of the presidential race that all but one will be the losers. The failed efforts will still contribute greatly to the success of the process. Mx. Cheese has surely changed her policy positions as affected by Bernie's caust.

I saw the two parties as two linked Möbius strips. Sanders and Mx. Cheese are being separated by cutting length-wise in half along one strip. Trump is being cut out width-wise across the other strip. No matter what, it will still be an American citizen who will win and swear to uphold the Constitution.

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

It's not sad. Its a corrupted, fucked up party. To join it and think that "winning" is part of the strategy is naive.

Sanders campaign manager came out and said they will stay in it till the convention, in order to help the Dems and Hillary.

From the campaign manager: "“Were this contest to end, you know, by Secretary Clinton, or us getting out—certainly if the Secretary were still in the race, she could expect months and months and months of immediate, and vicious, and very personal attacks from the Trump people,” Weaver said. “So I don’t know if that’s necessarily healthy for her.”

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Um, no. Bernie Sanders said last night on Rachel Maddow that he will be staying in until the convention and if he doesn't have enough won delegates by then, he will be calling for superdelegates to move over to him because of his momentum and better chances of beating Trump. He thinks he can overtake Clinton at the convention in a convention similar to a brokered convention. Yeah, that's really pandering to Hillary Clinton. Jeff Weaver is the farthest thing from a Hillary supporter if that is who you are talking about.

The most unrealistic thing is to be with the people who refuse to do what is practical. I voted for Jill Stein against Obama in the last election but Bernie Sanders is NO Barack Obama, he is no establishment candidate. All lefties not on board with Bernie are suspect. What I said was sad is that fact. I never said the 2 party system wasn't corrupt. Expecting to make change by keeping votes and support away from a candidate like Sanders at this day and time is freaking shameful. Shameful.

[-] 3 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Beautifulworld is correct. We should not be throwing Bernie under the bus quite just yet. The Hag may just choke on some Meds before the Convention, and who knows Bernie might just be the one left standing before its all over.

I think though it for us to also realize Trump is no foe, but offers yet another option, albeit a perspective most of us are not used to, to stand up against the real problem which is the Wall Street oligarchy which the Hag very much represents. The Hag and the ilk supporting her are the real problem.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

I concur. It's Bernie first and Trump next for me. I prefer going for a trial vaccine than getting more 'dry' rot. Innovation requires doing something different after each time we have failed.

[-] 0 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

Will Sanders and you be accepting the AIPAC invitation, and attend their conference in Washington next week? It seems like an opportune time for you both to speak out loudly against the militarism and his long support for the Islamophobia based, genocidal policies of Israel. He can reject their invitation from afar too without anymore of his doublespeak. And if he did, he would have my full support.

Bernie's brother is a BDS supporter, as I am. So too should Bernie be, MO, of course! You?

Berne Sanders brother is a BDS supporter....[why not Bernie?]


Thousands Call on Bernie Sanders to Reject AIPAC's Invitation to Speak Alongside Trump and Clinton


From previous posts of yours, it is "sad" and "freaking shameful" that ....., Jill Stein, "and people like them [like Hedges maybe, or other people who haven't sold out to AIPAC, I would suppose] hadn't gotten. behind Sanders."

Your ignoble crowning glory though, from this post, "All lefties not on board with Bernie are suspect." WOW!....reverse red baiting!.., how sanctimonious of you, and what a f..king insult to all the people who have and continue to work so hard to make this revolution succeed.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Well, apparently, Bernie Sanders did not accept the AIPAC invitation.

I don't care about your insults. I stand by what I said. Supporting Nader over Gore or Stein over Obama is just not the same thing at all as forsaking Bernie Sanders at this time in history.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

So more lesser evil for you. EDIT: That doesn't make sense entirely. I do believe that putting much of our energies into creating a third party is vital. Perhaps if we accepted some short term pain 20 years ago, we would have a viable third party today.

Yes, I can see where you might be upset with my insults. "All lefties not on board with Bernie are suspect." I'll do my best not to lower myself again. You?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Bernie's going to come very close. He's closing Clinton's lead. We'll see what happens and how we all feel about our choices at the end.

In the end, however, it will be a victory, it is a victory right now, actually, for how he is educating the masses, who yes, need educating. Many people had no idea about Citizens United and it's affects on their lives. Many people had no idea about the corruption of Wall Street and how it caused the Global Financial Crisis and affected their lives.

Now they know. And, now that they know, I believe as does Bernie Sanders, that those millions of people will demand change. And, in that fact lies the victory.

[-] -1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

"To debate respectfully is actually far more important than to merely ''agree'', imo" - was was I said to you here ...

before you, somewhat disrespectfully decided to ''Delete" your reply without explanation or editing to remove whatever it is you suddenly became embarrassed about in your reply - that seemed perfectly fine to me. So why should folk make replies if they are going to be left hanging with deleted or totally ignored substantive comments? Another example of this, would be here ...

However, now you insinuate yourself into another exchange & harangue long established posters here with baseless rhetorical pomposity?! Has bw, who has oft spoken for BDS here - EVER said anything on this forum over the past Fifty-Four months here which indicates that she could .. ''be accepting the AIPAC invitation, and attend their conference ...''?!! Are you even aware of just insulted YOU would be IF someone asked that of you given your input here that matter?!!!

Until Bernie accepts or declines AIPAC's call for ritual obeisance, you've nothing but conjecture/fury to base your bluster on BUT we know for sure Herr Drumf will be going tho' don't we? [see 1st link above!]

You seem to think it ok to jump into exchanges and debate disrespectfully, so I'll take a cue from you, although bw can reply for herself in due course - of course. All I know is - just how busy she is working, raising her kids AND working for Bernie and putting her butt on the line .. rather than just sitting on her hands, waiting for Dr.Jill Stein (who we all like & who bw voted for before) to come riding over the hill to save The 99% before November! You can also consider what I say here as reply to your comment here:

Please feel free to educate me as who it is you think best represents .. The Clear Interests of The US 99% right now? Because clearly - like bw, I'm clueless too as to who to support from a OWS p-o-v for November 2016 other than Bernie Sanders and as to why I say and think as I do ... perhaps consider:

You may be another person who doesn't like to read anything that doesn't confirm or conform with what you believe in or think you know .. and so may not read that ''Bernie - issues'' link or watch/read the ICH link - but maybe read your replies to me per the links above & then reconsider your understanding of the definition of: a) ''kumbaya''; b) ''sanctimonious'' & c) ''doublespeak''!!!

I don't appreciate amnesia or disrespecting posters who are and always have been - Totally 99%-Centric here on this forum and so .. boorish, oafish, angry replies to people are only ever justified IF people have behaved that way with you. Swearing at people who seldom if ever swear .. doesn't fkn look good either!!

All of us here can hold our own views ardently and none of us may totally agree but I don't feel obliged to stand quietly aside when anyone resorts to bullying others re. a reply that isn't even directed to u & your recalcitrance and ire.

It is an open forum tho' .. and we can all say what we like; to whoever we like; wherever we like and thus I will invoke those very rights here too, in my replying to you now. IF you still think - that bw has to prove something to you and she owes you replies or that she even has to jump through your hoops, in order to prove something - then you can consider that the very same can apply to you too .. as what is sauce for a goose can surely be sauce for a gander especially as The 99% is much bigger issue than AIPAC,imo.

Finally, for the record - I too believe that Dr.Jill Sanders and Elizabeth Warren do a disservice to The US 99% re. Domestic Issues - by not accepting that Sanders is NOT a Democrap, as he's Pro-99% & time-served as such for 50+ years. He's not the ''Hope & Change - Smoke & Mirrors'' establishment con-man that the now nearly sainted Obummer is, and he is now running as a de facto 3rd Party - insurgent, pro-99% candidate. Many things are possible later ... but who has the momentum and following right now?! Having been burned by falling for Obomber in 2008 isn't a good or rational reason for doing nothing now!!

quid pro quo?

[-] -1 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

With limited time, for now, "debate respectfully"?? Tell me, do you think that means we should give another poster a pass for implying that people who disagree with them in supporting Bernie are "freaking shameful," or they should be viewed in a "sad" manner... that despite his militarism and his doublespeak support on Israeli's genocidal policies?? And reverse red baiting is now acceptable to you?! You reckon that should go unchallenged?! Really!

We all have crosses to bear, but that is no excuse for "disrespectful debat[ing]", No matter how many words that you can cobble together in an attempt to whitewash this, that cannot be justified

As for me, deleting my St Patty's Day, Danny Boy (and the beautiful lyrics) post, which had uncanny similarities to my Dad's personal life was the right thing to do. I share far more of my personal life on this forum than most people do. I did share it, verbatim almost with my family in a group text. For you to suggest that I was hiding something is very disingenuous... But it does make me feel happier that I removed it.

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

I'll be mindful to keep any and all replies short, curt and to the point in future ... although of course I feel that I was the latter, imo - in my (now clearly) overly long, previous response above. Now in reply to you:

a) Yes to ''debate respectfully'' is always good and I still tried to do that.

b) Nobody should get a pass about anything .. but do look at your tone!

c) Note: ''implying'' would be your subjective interpretation of ''freaking shameful'' and - that oh, so loaded word ''sad''! The ongoing realities of ''Left Division'' due to an insistence on doctrinal purity, is a really well known phenomenon on The Left - which is exactly that (f s&s) imo. I try to be a pragmatist for The 99%.

d) Re. ''despite his militarism and his doublespeak support on Israel's genocidal policies'' .. do you think we should simply accept your unsubstantiated allegations? Should you at least provide a li'l evidence of this .. before we all just accept your subjective opinion as anything like - Objective Fact on this matter?! There are things to say on such matters & I touched on them in previous reply [#comment-1070108 abv]

e) Re. ''reverse red baiting'' .. well I've been rather red since I was 15 and been getting redder and I don't understand that term .. never mind relate to it & bw was expressing her frustration here - not baiting folk.

f) I ''reckon'' EVERYTHING is open to challenge - but not just with cantankerous subjective opinions, but with reasonably argued out explanations & some corroboration offered as evidence, if not objective proof.

g) Yes ... '''Really!''

h) Sorry for cobbling together words.What can I say?I'm old fashioned like that! + "Whitewashing" what?

i) There was nothing wrong with your very nice St.Pat's Day comment in reply to me ... in my subjective opinion & I did try to reply reasonably gracefully, I thought. I could relate to it - as my father too travelled thousands of miles to make a new life. I did NOT suggest you were ''hiding'' anything - because .. I read & liked your reply, remember. I was confused as to why u chose to ''Delete'' it and was annoyed by that.

j) I'm glad you ''feel happier'' & I'll try to do that.I don't usually reply to anything not to me but I did above.

k) Is AIPAC & its effect on U$A's Polytricks more important than The Economic Plight of The US 99%?

l) Who do you suggest we support for a November POTUS General Election from a OWS & 99% p-o-v?

m) Am I asking too many (ir)relevant questions? Good night & ooops re. not being short & curt enough.

omnia causa fiunt ...

EDIT: For what It is worth, I append: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL9oIV6kviQ - speaks for itself.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

Thanks for the beautiful new format...;) Giving me your best, more concise shot is preferable to me, probably 'cause of my shorter attention span. I blame or credit that on all the sound bytes that have been forced upon me for the past 40 years or so.. Errr...Thank You neoliberalism! For real...no joke, I do admire people who can say a lot with few words, ie, Abe Lincoln's Gettysburgh Address being the best. And yes, I do know that I need to practice what I preach. And I did watch Sanders' link (1 plus hours) in its entirety a few days ago. Thanks. One, maybe two links...perfect for me!

Kudos to Sanders for turning down an invitation to speak at the AIPAC conference in Washington. However, his reason for not going... being his busy west coast schedule fall way short on credibility for me at this point. The fact that their was a petition brought up on short notice (about 20,000 people signed, me too) asking him not to go had more to do with it, I'm sure. Monday he is due to have an address written to the AIPAC members, so we'll see then.

Next, please know that I have been following the exchanges between Shule and bw for the last 2 or 3 days. I have twinkled them both up at different times..... (bw, a time or two more) as I thought that both had some valid points of view. They made me think also. On the one hand I listened to bw's optimism/idealism (and I don't mean that in a condescending way at all), and some the good points that she brought up. And I admit having lost some of that which saddens me. Then on the other hand, I could relate really well to Shule's pragmatism, which borders on, and maybe crosses over into pessimism, which I share sometimes & it kinda bums me out.

I'm resigned to hearing this place become ELECTION CENTRAL for Sanders, but it is not my cup of tea. AND.. I take offense, BIG time at anyone who sanctimoniously (and that is a well chosen word & you can look it up this time) proclaims, that, "All lefties not on board [the Bernie bandwagon] are suspect." I find that statement personally offensive, and it is indeed reverse red baiting (you know what red baiting means, well it should be easy to figure out from there) To my bad, I can be caustic with my Jersey attitude at times, but I would never say that to anyone of good heart and whom I respected.

For me, this is not so much about whether Bernie wins or loses, although I do really hope he wins. And I give a lot of credit to anyone who walks the talk, like bw has/does. Rather this revolution is about holding our leaders up to a higher standard... holding their feet to the fire as Max Blumenthal's petition has done in calling on Sanders to skip the AIPAC conference. MO, there should be a lot more like that.. This is a bottom up, people's revolution, and it should be conducted that way....

We have been used and abused by corrupt political parties for so long, and now is the ideal time, preferably for me, but not necessarily with Bernie leading IMO to turn the tables, and figure out what the best way is to continue turning the tide..... hopefully in a peaceful way.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

So you liked the ''new format'' re. my an attempt at brevity and concision above ... then you proceed to advise me how I ought to reply & THEN I get the full essay in reply?!!! LOL!! Different sauces for goose and gander, much?!!! Do as I say - but not as I do, lol?!! No matter ... all's fair in debate and to and fro!

While I'm still being touchy and per your previous reply: ''We all have crosses to bear, but that is no excuse for "disrespectful debat[ing]", No matter how many words that you can cobble together in an attempt to whitewash this, that cannot be justified'' ... well you do get that that was my predominant point of contention with your reply at bw,right? Now for the meat of my reply to your comment above:

a) Your ''Kudos to Sanders'' or the ''credibility'' of his actions aside, he did not go to AIPAC's ritual of genuflection and obeisance. That is the objective fact.

b) Your personal feelings aside, what is now actually most important to The US 99% at this juncture, AIPAC or ... https://berniesanders.com/issues/ ?!

c) ''ELECTION CENTRAL'' ... is EXACTLY what it is going to be here .. for the next few months! What would you expect now?!! Especially as Bernie's platform, plans and policies are soooo close to OWS' demands and initial ambitions?!!!

d) ''Sanctimonious'' would be you interjecting into bw's reply at turbo; then internalising what she said; taking offence & then castigating her for things she made you feel!

e) I really do want to hear from any and all old, new and resurrected ''Lefties'',just whoTF is closest to ANY Left Positions to surface in U$A in last 40 or 50 or 70 years ... or maybe - ever?!!

f) Your personal feelings of - ''reverse read-baited'' or ''personally offended'', really are utterly incidental here. Your ''bad & caustic & being Jersey'' do not really excuse your boorish reply at bw and you can read that again if you're in any doubt.

g) The points & short questions per k), l) & m) - above all still apply & remain for your consideration.

h) I do agree that this Election 2016 process is bigger than Bernie and I too ''really hope he wins'' of course but I argue that ''this revolution'' is all about The 99% and raising consciousness - maybe to break The Oligarcical Corporate Duopoly in the U$A once and for all with 3rd,4th or more parties for 2020, when the collective Political Vision could be clearer for all! Bernie seeds this 99% Movement.

per ardua ad astra et dum spiro, spero ...

EDIT: Do feel free to try to reply to the points and observations above, to my other reply to you here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/clinton-attacks-israeli-boycott-movement-in-aipac-/#comment-1070276

[-] -2 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Well he got mopped in Florida, so we will see what happens at the convention. I suppose I could phone bank for others, thats still an option.

Is your state done at this point as well?

The real lefties are anarchists, not statists, fyi.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Libertarian socialism is the closest ism I can find to describe myself. Funny, that's often known as social anarchism.

I can be that, libertarian socialist, and still want the greatest change for the nation I find myself and my children in which is an oligarchic capitalist society.

Yep, my state is done and lost, lol, but I am doing work for Bernie that is national and I also have canvassing coming up in my neighboring states.

He won Idaho 78% to 21% and Utah 80% to 20% so we'll just see what happens in the end. One thing I know for sure, in the end, is that there's been a great awakening and jig is up for the 1%.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

REALLY?! Don't you think that that is just a touch subjective?!! Does anyone here cast aspersions as what you ''really'' are or are not .. and might you be just a tad insulted IF they did?!!! Try this for size ..

So does ''Democracy'' factor into any ideas or ideology - that you may hold to? Also perhaps see the (important, imo) video attached in ''Edit'' to Viking above. No need to hear it all - just first 5-10m is ok.

This General Election in the US is going to be qualitatively different to any other in my lifetime I think, therefore folk are going to get cranky & touchy (mea culpa) so, we'll have to do what we think is right.

ad iudicium ...

[-] -1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

I should not have put it as "the real" but the furthest in over in that spectrum.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

Consider that - ''Despite a concerted effort by the U.S. Empire to snuff out the ideology, a 2016 poll found young Americans have a much more favorable view of socialism than capitalism.'' & thus see:

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

I hope I'm wrong, and you're right. But looking at the delegate count so far, the numbers just don't add up. Where Bernie has been winning, he has not been winning by the margins necessary to overwhelm the Hag's machine. The fact is he is slipping further behind. They make it sound like Bern' is going to win the popular delegates, but in my opinion they're using Bernie to steer the sheep.

So, what is plan B?

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

I could be wrong, but the way that I get it is that the super delegates can vote for anyone they want to. Since most of them are part of the establishment, that portends well for Hillary, but conversely and more importantly, it makes the primary process even more of a mockery than it already is.This is the time that Sanders and all of his supporters should stand up and DEMAND that the will of the majority of the voters be the overwhelming factor in who gets the nomination.

The time for us to compliantly accept a corrupt system should be over!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

The party mechanism of the super delegates was originally put in to enable a veto by the party establishment (which has already traded favors to bias the outcome - yes, HRC being insider has a commanding lead over Bernie in this institutionalized pay-to-play scheme). Bernie was permitted to run by the establishment after having signed the pledge to support whoever the party nominees would be. The only thing that can realistically stop HRC is the trusty and sturdy burro but it may have already contracted the rickets. Of course, super delegates are afraid of getting "You are fired!" from their voters' base.

Supporting Trump is actually applying leverage on the super delegates to allow the voters' base to have a stronger say. I'm willing to give Herr Drumpf a chance because even our demented Reagan did a great job on the foreign policy front. Of course, there must be a great heart in there to begin with - Pinocchio of the growing nose does not qualify but the lion accompanying Dorothy does. Flight KAL007 casualties (including New Yorkers and Washingtonians) and the TV mini-series 'The Day After' activated the heart of Reagan regarding the late Soviet Union. Yes, there were grave consequences possible even before WW3's nuclear 'exchange.'

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

The superdelegates are meaningless. They always turn toward the candidate with the most votes in the end, they just make an early attempt to try to sway and intimidate voters. Lovely isn't it? Not real democracy, but then again we don't have real democracy. We have oligarchy, which we are trying to overthrow.

Truth is, Bernie is only behind by 206 delegates and there are almost 3000 left to contest so have some faith and get to work for Bernie.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Super delegates exist precisely to make sure that somebody like Bernie does not become the nominee on the basis of popular vote. Check out the history. It all started with Jimmy Carter. The Democratic party does not want have a real do gooder like Carter in the White house again; at least not on their ticket.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Of course they don't want a do gooder in office. So, what to do? Stick our heads in the sand? Give up? I think fighting back is a much better option.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

So, how do you fight back? What good cards do you have to play?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

The cards are the millions of people who a. have become knowledgeable that neoliberal policies have led to the greed of Wall Street, Citizens United and extreme wealth and income inequality and b. who have learned that we can reverse those neoliberal policies by actively demanding change because those policies and their results are not inevitable. And c. and most importantly, the cards are the millions of people who no longer feel helpless, no longer ashamed, but who are gonna make demands en masse.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

I think the sticking point with the "millions of people coming together" is "knowledgeable." It is too much to expect that from "millions" of people. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who are very smart, but there is such a thing as collective stupidity. Ever try to organize anything? You'll see what I mean. Most people are just too busy trying to save there own ass, much less their neighbors.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

My sister didn't know Bernie from a hole in the ground several months ago - talking to her on Sunday she said that Bernie was "THE ONLY Candidate" to support in the presidential race. More reason for more national debate exposure for Bernie.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Ok, so your sister got a brain. But I hardly think she is representative of the greater American public ('cause she has a brain.)

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

What she got that many have not as of yet - was an opportunity to see him in a national debate - and then took the time to check records - and so found the truth of one and the lies of the other. Main thing being the opportunity to meet Bernie on a national event and then being able to verify content. Many have had the same experience = exposure and ability to check assertions and so a solid foundation of realization of decades of spoken truth and spoken lip service. The more national public exposure = the more who can find enlightenment.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Trump did put up a row of trees between his Casino in Atlantic City and the rest of the town, and called it the "Scum Line."

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

hmmmmm . . . he was too cheap to encircle the place so that no one would accidentally approach into the scum zone?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

As people learn about Bernie Sanders and about his platform (which is very similar to Occupy's platform, btw) they tend to go toward him. His problem has been time and the fact that Clinton started this race with a head start.

But, in the end, the education that he is giving to millions is priceless, because once out of the cave and into the light, there is no going back.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Trump brought up some incredible points about Bernie this morning... http://video.foxnews.com/v/4840581622001/trump-the-system-is-rigged-its-crooked/?#sp=show-clips

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

What is different about this election cycle is that the people are actually hearing some real truths about their democracy, their economy, their media and their political system. Kinda priceless.

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

I think one of the main things that portends really well for our revolution is that probably for the first time a near majority of people are realizing how the corporate-owned media has become a tool of the criminal elite. They are being exposed for their bias, and as they are... people are continuing to leave the MSM in droves and going to Internet news. And as that happens, the MSM are realizing how powerless they have become in controlling the masses in the way they have been accustomed to. I must admit to have taken a perverse amusement at their predicament. lol

Are The 'Young Turks' The Future of Bradcast News?


[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Trump absolutely demolished the entire system as a whole over the last few days, and Bernie pretty much decimated Clinton last night.

When it comes to November, I still see everyone falling victim and pulling the lever for the Clinton or Cruz.

[-] 4 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

Geesh.. I hope you're wrong! I think we have come to a turning point, and Sanders deserves oodles of credit for bringing us there. EDIT: I'm kinda thinking that this may be the ideal time for the emergence of a third party, but I can only guess how this all plays out. I will say, 'We are enetering some really interesting times.'

[-] 4 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Yes, Sanders persevered and put up a good fight for what he believes, in all his political career spanning decades. I hope that he will succeed despite the machinations by the party. Power to the people!

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

An "anti-homeland-terrorism" party can emerge from the sanguine remains of the novice New York love birds impaled by the "thorny bushes under the double Schlongs of Berlusconi." Around us for blackness the goldball was singing, but then little thought I how soon we should part. "The dead I have mourned are again living here."

An eclectic coalition has formed to advance a bill to allow foreign countries to be held responsible for committing and/or aiding/abetting terrorist acts on U.S. soil.


Hypocritically, the Obama administration has tried assiduously to block the bill in Congress while saying it's "stand[ing] by the victims" of 9/11. Will blood or oil win in the blood-for-oil faustian pact?

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Trump's feeling the blade of the party's machine. Wyoming delegates have gone to Ted Cruz. The process is undemocratic. It's Retard-i-can't!

[-] 4 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

Replying here. Don't be too quick to write Sanders off. From one of my childhood idols, "It ain't over, till it's over.".....Yogi Berra, RIP, New York Yankees...

Perhaps one of his other famous quotes, in referring to a restaurant, but it's also apropos for Sander's rallies, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."...lol

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Truth! And, young people simply do not watch or listen to MSM at all! So, while we've made great progress in the political revolution that we need, I think, once these kids are a bit older and the old status quo farts that are in office die off, this revolution is inevitable. But, we forge on to try to bring it about sooner.....because the sooner the better, for all of us.


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Original American said that the two parties are one and we live in the laboratory: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-LA-S64QY3o

Yes! I did feel like being treated as a laboratory mouse in a cryogenic calorie-restriction life-extension experiment at North Pole.

I really wonder who the wacko was at the Holocaust near Waco, Texas. Was it the Kryptonite gubbermint or the Branch Davidians? Being white offered no protection then.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Trump is experiencing discrimination from the Establishment just as Sanders. He's being outfoxed by Ted Cruz despite many more people wanting him to be the nominee.

It's indeed a rigged system not only on the Demonkrapts' side with the favor-trading super delegates but also on the Retard-i-can't's' side with the goodies-collecting delegates.

The little owl on the dollar bill will speak in the dead of the night when July comes. Who? Who? Who? Who? Who? Trump may not know the Rule, being uninitiated in the rites of the redwood groves. "The ash grove, how graceful, how plainly 'tis speaking. The harp through it playing has language for me."

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

As I'm sure you know, the "head start" that Hillary got, and that you alluded to was due to the fact that the first primaries were orchestrated to take place in conservative states (the South), ones which she was destined to win, but the Democrats will most likely not carry these states in the general election... They assured her of a quick pledge delegate lead. And together with a rigged, convoluted, polluted system based on money (bribes & a cut of the PAC money), gifts (like promised ambassadorships)... and pressure put on delegates if they wanted to keep their position in the party.... Hillary also received a huge number of super delegates. The system likes to benignly refer to this as the rules, but in reality, it is a corrupt scheme, and it is extremely undemocratic. The basic purpose is to thwart the will of the people, and to disparage anyone who challenges the the established, status quo, neoliberal candidate!

Along the way, the corrupt MSM colludes with the Party using different strategies to make the challenger (Sanders) look inept, stupid, and to make his candidacy look futile. From the get-go, it is repeated.. time and again... that the establishment candidate has an insurmountable lead. The implication is clear: OK, we heard you, but it's time to get real, and for Sanders and his followers to throw the towel in and help bring about party unity.

It's a screwed up system that sucks big time!

This is what Corruption Looks Like: How Hundreds of Superdelegates were "bought" by the Clinton Campaign


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

All so true. No argument from me.

We'll have to just wait and see what Sanders and his followers do going forward if he doesn't win during the convention, keeping in mind that he still might, despite what the pundits spin.

I for one, will not be voting for Hillary Clinton. I think the time is ripe for Bernie to go third party and Trump fourth party (or vice versa, lol.) Let's get this thing going. Time to get rid of the two establishment parties that have corrupted, stolen and ruined our democracy.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Trump's home has a great view for miles. I remember that the South Tower also had a great view for miles until it was returned to ashes. I trust Bernie and Trump on this - East River, Central Park, or Hudson River, what's the difference? It is Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, and New York, New York.

Remember New Amsterdam and its surrender that is still revered? Does Chappaqua still ring a bell in the subways?


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Isn't this just another go-around, no different from when geoduck trounced Mx. Cheese about eight years ago? On the global helpline, pressing 0 gets us the infinite loop. Give Mx. Cheese credit for having learnt the Rule of the redwood groves well. She knows where to pee now, perhaps with geoduck's jerky guidance. Geoduck was Goldman-Sachs' candidate (it takes money to buy super delegates) and worked great as a darkish sheepdog rounding up the black sheep.

"Are you living better off now than eight years ago?" Who got snuffed out? Who got bailed out? Who got kicked out? Who got pigged out? Who'll be hemmed in? Who'll be locked in? Who'll be shoo-ed in?

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

It's never over till it's over. Be patient. Of course, Bernie may very well be used for steering the sheep. I would not be surprised at all to see HRC and Bernie to end up on the same ticket should Bernie win the nomination and HRC is not indicted by the Feral Burro of Incompetence and disqualified.

Basing on how politics corrupts justice, HRC is unlikely to be indicted because we have already heard contradictory information from the White House spokesman and the Attorney General. Influence is better exerted in secrecy. Cover for the untruth tends to lack the consistency of truth.

Extremely few people will dare to indict their potential future boss. Feral Burro of Incompetence does not practise Bushido 武士道.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

HRC has won so far in red states (over Bernie that is) - Bernie came from a 20 or 30 point deficit to win Michigan. Lets see how he does on the 15th before we panic.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Should we take bets?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

No no bets - look at the super delegate process. Does not matter where the public support lies - the SD's can vote any which way they like - they are not tied to the public's choice.

Which brings up an interesting question about the GOP. I mean they are all "publicly" going crazy about Donald's tRump being the front runner - BUT - the GOP establishment SD's are not moving against the Donald.

This also works against Bernie in the dem run = SD's supporting establishment HRC - irregardless of public wishes/support.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

I am hoping to see a showing of sanity = support for Bernie and disgust for HRC. Sanity showed up in Chicago with 1000s of protestors forcing a shutdown of tRumps rally.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Doesn't look like there is much sanity out there these days.

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

Barring a miracle, it's soon time that we accept possible short time pain, for the hope of long-term gain, and use this point in history to start a third party. If Sanders were to lose, voting for either candidate remaining in the duopoly should not be an option.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Hate to say this, but I believe reality is there is no option within the bounds of our current political system. Third parties in U.S. national politics for all practical purposes do not exist, an never will. Only real options for us lie quite outside the current political spectrum.

(The only reason I'm "trumping" up Trump here is for the joke of it all.)

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Bernie just lost in Ohio, Florida, Illinois, North Carolina. May we panic now?

The ugly reality should be settling in by now. The Democratic party IS the Wall Street establishment, and they are about to install their darling Hag in as Prez who is going to only further their corrupt wall street reign aside from starting world war III. The only thing up against it is (that is within the regular political process), of all things, a Republican conman named Trump. Trump is the only chance humanity got.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

tRump? The poster child for afluenza?

[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Knowledgeable American People? Ha, Ha, Ha, ha, ha, ................

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Yeah - that is pretty funny. The American people knew nothing about Bernie a year ago and only those who have attended campaign speeches or seen something shared off the internet have gotten any idea of who he is. Main stream corp(se)oRAT media has been doing it's best to not give him any sort of coverage.

So all in all it is pretty amazing how well Bernie has been doing.

[-] 3 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

For all the billions Larry Fink and the rest of the Wall Street crime gang is pouring into the Hag, I'm sure they are pretty frustrated. Then again who should be surpised? Afterall, Bernie is running against a pscyhopathic lizard in a woman suit. Not too many reasonable people are going to vote for that.

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 6 years ago

I agree. The fact that people are not responding to the big corporate money being poured into campaigns, like they have in the past... Is a very positive sign.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago


[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

HRC is pretty much a GOPer anyway = her doing well in the south. So is really another GOP candidate running with a D behind her name.

Big money is starting to get a very bad name and lose to less well financed because of it.

Because of OWS - many people are waking up and looking around for the 1st time in decades.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

OWS voting for Trump. Whoever would of thought.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Looks like TRUMP is the man.

Who woulda EVER thunk it?


Yep that was the republican party kissing the sidewalk after falling off of the top of the tRump tower!

Now - unless Bernie re-registers in time b4 may 9th it looks like the November ticket will b a real insane total republican ticket (yep HRC & the Donnie).

People the world over pulling their hair out by the roots while running screaming into the night.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Shule did and I did.

Bernie may still be able to get onto the Green Party's ticket after Cleveland. However, the number of states carrying his name on the ballots may be limited.

Actually, T. Rex and Mx. Cheese being similarly Retard-i-can't will be a relief to the finance community the whole world over. Diseases, Wars, Famines, and Deaths do not scare the finance community as much as uncertainties. The two choices' being really no choice presents certainty that will rally the finance community.

Times New Roman is an eminently readable font with which to present U.S. intentions transparently to the world after Jurassic Park has been breached. The Cretaceous Period is hard to run away from. People need "parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme." "She once was a true love of mine."

The Italians will probably sympathize with the leadership of our 1776'-tall robotic TV schlong following the example of Berlusconi's double-sclong phallic symbols. Having no problem with pulling hair out, (the Russians and) Poo Tin the Great have already declared "Love!" Russland, Russland, Russland! Geh nur an meiner Seite, und sei mein Freund.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

The GOP created a monster and the monster got away from em. The DNC is screwing Bernie so their nomination will be the sHillary monster So unless Bernie continues his run as an independent - the general election ticket will be total republican offering to the public tRump or sHillary One wonders how much sHillary is hated Cause tRump (insane as the thought is) could beat her lip-service professional political ass.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

It will take Bernie going independent (Green?) to avoid the certainty of the election result from monster v. monster. Shule had a good point that a supermodel would be a definite plus. Big hands are also positive but the hair may be less competitive with the ones resistant to being pulled. Strong-armed enforcers need to be hairless (like the sexy bald ones) or have extremely short hair.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

If Bernie re-registers prior to May 9th to run as an independent as a back-up to the DNC screwing him at a contested convention (if it even gets that far- gotta keep in mind the DNC gave sHillary 520 SD's prior to the race even beginning). I don't know how he would run as an independent - would he be locked into running green(?) or could he run as an independent democrat?

The thing for Bernie to keep in mind and for his supporters to stress the point to him "is" the fact that an HRC win or a tRump win would both be catastrophic to the people of the USA as well as to the environment and the whole world!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Bernie does not have to run as a Green Party nominee but joining forces with others makes getting onto ballots easier. The Green Party is likeminded on a number of issues, far more so than any one of the duopoly which has given us many decades of blood, sweat, tears, dismemberments, crippling disabilities, inflations, recessions, depressions, unemployments, suicides, murders, crimes, divorces, broken homes, orphans, etc.

Hopping on makes sense because the Green Party will likely become entrenched as a viable third party even if Bernie could not capture the Presidency. There was precedent set before by geoduck for exceeding public finance campaign spending limit - "by popular demands."

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

I keep telling Bernie to endorse like minded people for other offices in state and federal government as he or anyone else would need a working majority to push the peoples platform.

He should be prepared to run as a 3rd party candidate - but he should also be campaigning for his needed support in office!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Sure. Bernie seems to know this because he had said that his effort was part of a "movement." Geoduck had been sent in without reinforcements so we got mostly 'half-assed threadbare see-through underwear' solutions to our people's problems.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

The obstructionism of the last 8 years was due completely to the fact that no one was put into office to support Obama. In fact the worst thing that could have possibly happened - DID = rethuglicans gained the majorities needed to obstruct.

This year with the insanity of The Donald as the front runner in a party that has gone totally insane "should" be the death rattle of the GOP as a viable party.

Bernie has not made a good effort to promote people who stand by his platform and thereby the people - this is a huge failure (repeated on the failure of Obama's 2 terms campaigning for the office of president).

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

With the Donald suggesting that the U.S. restructure the national debt in times of the U.S. economy tanking, I have realized just how boiling-hot the water is that the U.S. may be put into. The U.S. is very different from a business (it's not a lobster, okay?). There is no global government enforcing bankruptcy protection for the U.S. Credit markets will freeze up for the U.S. That will be a disaster for my people.

Do remember that credit is ample but cash is scarce in this strange time of ours. Credit distinguishes the U.S. from Zimbabwe where the believable cash is scarce, too.

I can live with braggadocio-in-chief, strawbrained scarecrow-in-chief, or even a lunatic-in-chief, but I cannot tolerate a suicidio-in-chief who ignites a debt bomb. WOW! The death rattle of the GOP is extremely serious!

Some historical knowledge may help: Richard D. Heffner, "A Documentary History of the United States."

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Funny thing

The Bankruptcy King might b a lesser evil

Yeah he will likely be known as the Hater-n-chief

But will he have any support for his agendas?

There is the question

The republicans say they can't support him

But is that just another sly psyop? to get disillusioned republicans to vote for him?

Doesn't look like Bernie will ensure his continued run through the general election by re-registering as ind.

So that really leaves the public with a lose lose proposition in wealthy sHillary or the wealthy Donald after the DNC finishes screwing Bernie at the convention.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

We must not believe the Hater-in-chief that "There are devils amongst you. Submit to the greatness of the Fourth Reich. I'm your Exorcist."

We must trust our fellow Americans unless proven otherwise. It's not a sly psyop.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Noam Chomsky prefers Trump to Cruz in the video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gVqO3r3ugVo. Apparently, we the laboratory mice starving in the snow and ice of North Pole will be getting the Great Thaw. It's time to learn to swim or piggyback on the polar bears. Waterboarding is coming for all.

Business hot air is preferable to the passion of the Cross. Global warming will arrive with a vengeance regardless of whichever low-information Retardican wins the Presidency. They are the delusional climate deniers. It's time for the world to believe in the tritium Kaffee.

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (2515) from Fredericksburg, TX 6 years ago

not as ironic as it seems at first glance is the "Jacksonian" reaction: "Michael Pettis: Trump and the Re-Emergence of the Jacksonians"


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Trump taps into a rich vein of popular resentments. These are what I found:

  1. Robotic voice says, "Press '1' for English." When did English become the non-default language of the U.S. that we need to specify that we speak English? Why can't this calling phone number be specified as belonging to an English speaker instead of waiting for a blast of $H£% and the robotic voice saying to press '1'?
  2. People mill around or cut into a line to get serviced fast. Standing in an orderly line waiting for service was the American way. Whatever happened to that? Oh say, can you see? Oh yes, I can see - new people claiming that they 'pay taxes' when challenged. How does 'paying taxes' entitle one to cut into an orderly line?
  3. Call up a helpline. Welcome to the robo-dumbass District of Colombia where the e-drug is cheap and the menu is long! Finally, after winding through the maze like a good little laboratory white mouse and discovering that the long menus 'helfen nicht', here comes the voice of a Homo accentus, sounding muffled and chewing coke. Why can't (yes, '1' for English-speaking) Americans be working as helpline representatives? After some spelling games, Aha!!! Google, google, this is why laboratory mice just love googling... Homo's will be displaced by Robo's! Robo's don't /€"( around. Robo self-gratification evolutionary sequence may still be R. habilis, R. erect-us, R. sap-iens, R. a-meri-kus.
  4. Call up a helpline. This one has no robo-dumbass menu of e-drugs but it has 'elevator music' galore with NO mute button. After waiting twenty minutes listening for, "May I help you?" to no avail but instead starting to get calluses growing in both ears from the terrible Moo-sick, the handset's rechargeable batteries died. Where's that other handset with charged batteries? Okay, dynamic swapping is within the capability of my Neandertaler genes' repertoire - thanks to my ancestors' good taste for motherf--kers. Paraphrasing Darwin, evolutionarily successful animals descended through an unbroken line of motherf--kers from eons ago. The successful ones will f--k more for offspring to become proud ancestors. There's a nice ring to that but why hasn't it rung to the Homo yet?
  5. The decade-long used gadget broke. Went to a store to buy a replacement. It's no longer available because that company had been driven out of business by cheap imports. ALL replacements came from China. Okay, so be it, we must assume the 'white-man's burden' to help out other parts of the world, left? China's gadget worked a few times and broke. Bought another one, same old crap-out! The only non-solution solution was to 'chill out and forget about it'. Zen...zzzzz...till the crappy system crashes!
[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Our country is more than anyone's pocket change. Duty, Honor, Country.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Duty? Honor? Country? Ho, Ho, Ho. Where do you live? This country has been and always will be all about money.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

I think it's North Pole. Laboratory mice dialing up helplines for Santa Claus have good camouflage here (there are those "Who? Who? Who?" calls of the owls). I'm old-schooled so I'm very afraid of contracting 'consumption,' unlike the great country cavorting with Theresa on the green sofa. Theresa fragte, "Grabbelst du mich gern?"

Believe me, venison is rumbling wild here. In snow and ice, money may be venal.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Duty? Honor? Country?

Concepts twisted and misused from the beginning of time.

Perhaps if it was reworked and presented something more like:

Duty and Honor To Humanity Through Country (?)

Naw I suppose that would get twisted as well.

[-] 2 points by Shule (2638) 6 years ago

Money, Money, and Money. That concept never gets twisted. Maybe 'cause it is twisted in and of it self, but that is beside the point.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

國家 - 有國先,有家。

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Looks like TRUMP is the man.

tRump would be the 1st to agree with you.

Though tRump reminds me of a scene from an animated movie:

TRex trying to get at what it want's but is blocked in it's effort: TRex looks towards screen and says "My Head Is Too Big and My Arms Too Short".

Substitute tRump for TRex and imagine the presidency as the target tRump can't get to.

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

TRex is fully capable of devouring the lawyer who abandoned the children in the car to sit on the bamboo-walled-in toilet: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VMzfrod7hcE

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago
[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Drumpf takes beating 3/12/2016 in DC & Wyoming. Hey Donnie! Those weren't Bernie supporters - though by election time maybe they will be. No one should be trying to forward the GOP = it is against the average working individuals best interests.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Unfortunately the Democrats are as well. Why anyone who cares about their kids future would continue to endorse those two parties and screw the next generation is beyond me.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

Look dipshit - for once and ALL - if the dems were every bit as bad as the GOP - then - we would all be abject slaves with no rights whatsoever as well as no health care whatsoever - Years ago - decades ago.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

Our rights were there long before these two parties came around.

As far as no healthcare, are you saying that without these two parties my doctor's office would just shut down?

I suppose they could just force us to purchase healthcare. Oh wait...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

You may be looking at the two parties from afar and DK from close-up. There may actually be no disagreement. I saw Venus right next to Jupiter in the sky but astronomers would tell me that they are really really far apart if I were to fly from one to the other in a spaceship. Einstein would say that if I were the light beam from Jupiter to Venus, the trip would very likely take no time.

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 6 years ago

No Im up close. Ive been more up close than Dan ever thought about being.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Okay, I get it. "If life is a big bowl of fresh oysters of Dumbo, why am I always in their piss?" Maybe they love your southerly warmth in the sunshine state.

[-] -2 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 6 years ago

Stop insulting other forum users, and keep quiet. You should be strapped onto your therapeutic bed. Mentally ill people such as yourself are dangerous.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

How does Donnie know them as Bernie supporters? How do you know them as otherwise?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

The ones that voted for Rubio and Cruz? I would think that that would be apparent. The ones that protested in Chicago? - that made tRump cancel his appearance? - I have no doubt that there were supporters of Bernie "there".

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

I agree with the assessment that Rubio & Cruz supporters do not overlap much with Bernie supporters due to the very different proposed agendas. The protestors in Chicago may not have been reached yet to support Bernie. Is that what you mean?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago

The protestors in Chicago may not have been reached yet to support Bernie. Is that what you mean?

No - tRump blamed Bernie for the protestors in Chicago - said Bernie sent them - though there were no doubt Bernie supporters in the protests in Chicago - I very much doubt that Bernie had anything to do with sending them - So - as to the major defeats tRump experienced in DC & Wyoming - I was stating that tRump couldn't even begin to try to blame Bernie for that as well.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Yes, I agree. I doubt that Bernie sent the protestors in Chicago or caused DC & Wyoming to flip away.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

Trump Rally Protester, Jedediah Brown:


"I was told to go back to Africa."

"No, he will not be the next President of the United States. I have more faith in this country than that."

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

If Jedediah is a U.S. citizen, he needs not "go back to Africa." He belongs here, naturally.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23643) 6 years ago

The truth is that most African Americans have deeper roots that reach much farther back in this country than white people. We are all immigrants. If we weren't, the native Americans would not be stuck on reservations, they'd be in charge of this place and we'd probably all be better off for it.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

That's true because white immigrants came in droves much later. The original Americans know better about the need to live peacefully with nature. In my lifetime, many wooded areas have become housings, probably making profits for real estate developers but where could the wildlife go?

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 6 years ago


@HillaryClinton @SenSanders

Michigan votes sanity = Bernie & insanity = tRump on 3/08/16 Y anyone would vote 4 anyone in t GOP is a mystery.


@HillaryClinton @SenSanders

Mississippi votes insanity twice = HRC 1%er GOP Light elitist & tRump 1%er narcissist misogynist racist elitist!

[-] 0 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 6 years ago

Hey Tweety Bird, that ain't no tweet. Just a forum comment.