Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: Clinton Attacks Israeli Boycott Movement In AIPAC Speech

Posted 1 year ago on March 22, 2016, 1:40 p.m. EST by Viking (417)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

It's incredulous to me how Sanders can regard this woman as a friend, and want us to support her if he loses. She is one twisted, Islamophobic War Monger!

https://theintercept.com/

45 Comments

45 Comments


Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

''Hillary Clinton's friends'' ...

The poster of that video; Jeanette Johnson-Jing, aka Jeanette Jing, aka Jeanette Sandernista, is a very well known Bernie activist on Twitter - but was suspended from Twitter for this video! For an insight into her work and copious evidence of Hitlary Rotten Clinton's - Neocon and Neoliberal Perfidy.. please see:

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

I don't understand how so many people give her a pass for all of the atrocities that she is guilty of. It's sad to say, but that does not speak well for much our society.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Reason that Hitlary Rotten Clinton gets "a pass" is because Oligarchy's MSM keeps people ignorant about her. Most folk have not got the time, means or inclination - to go find their own news & info and thus don't realise that they have their theories, ideas, views and opinions. moulded or even handed to them. The Myth of The Liberal Media and mis-education and propaganda, means The U$A under The 0.01%'s Duopoly Shamocracy is one of The Most Mind Managed societies on earth (imo)! Also fyi ...

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

To change the subject. Sanders probable impending loss as the Democrat nominee, although a bummer for most of us, may well turn out to be a blessing in disguise. It hinges on what he, and the majority of his supporters do. This is our chance...

About That Post Bernie Movement

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/18/about-that-post-bernie-movement/

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Bernie bringing ''Democratic Socialism'' and the OWS' message and then - running with that platform to the American people - coast to coast, was a ''blessing'' in and of itself, I'd argue. The good that that has done for the future is incalculable right now - despite the disappointment of late stage miscalculations & the extent of DNC & the Democrap's: Voter Suppression; Electoral Fraud; Stolen Election; Registration Irregularities and the ''Strip & Flip'' Shenanigans! I will continue to do what I can for Mr.Sanders because The Message & The Movement - are bigger than The Man!! Thanx for a very interesting link, from which..

I quote ... ''The post-nomination Sanders movement will face its first test — or opportunity, if you prefer — in September. Will Mr. Sanders and his supporters demand a place for the Green Party nominee in the fall presidential debates?

''Or will they look the other way while ideas they claim to support are silenced and only the Democratic and Republican nominees are allowed to participate?''

''The political revolution inspired by Bernie Sanders must continue outside of the two parties of War and Wall Street or it won’t continue at all.'' Also fyi:

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

We will have our answer soon. Re: Outreach, Sanders has already done more in a year, than Occupy did in the previous 4 years. From here, he gets to choose what his lasting legacy will be. And your right, this struggle is way bigger than just him. It's up to us, now... not to drop the baton.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22801) 1 year ago

The movement is bigger than Bernie and he knows it, and we forge on, no matter what, but hey Bernie: "Go third party, would ya?" Free us from the chains of the duopoly.

We have never had a more clear and better opportunity than right now with Bernie Sanders.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

I waited for quite a while for Bernie to make a move, and run as an Independent. I'm very disappointed that he hasn't. If he had, I more than likely would have went to Philly (about 60 mi from me) during the DNC convention.

I really hope the people that do go to can convince him, or that they support candidates that are not in the duopoly.

As for me, I instead chose to visit members of my family in Alaska (leaving Sat). The irony is that one friend who lives in Fairbanks, AK, and the guy who I went to Zuccotti with several times in 2011 will be there along with a couple of his friends.

I still have mixed feelings about not going, but family and in particular my granddaughters comes first.

I will continue with our struggle when I get back, both here, and in NY (a little over 60 miles from my home), as the World that my gd's grow up in is very important to me.

There is no doubt I will be doing some outreach in AK too.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22801) 1 year ago

In the end, you were right. The revolution can only happen outside the system. This is something I have always believed to be true and which is why I always stuck with Occupy. And, Occupy still works today because it is outside the system. It works as an idea that has pervaded the American mind.

Bernie carried the torch of Occupy, and truth be told, he always carried that same torch. Why on earth he has endorsed that woman is beyond me. Endorsing a fracking, warmongering, Wall Street loving, TPP supporting, Monsanto defending candidate like Clinton is beyond me! I just don't get it and I never will. And, I don't think we should waste our time trying to figure it out because in the end the movement is the movement.

The movement is not Bernie Sanders. The movement is the 99%. It's the people and they people have to go with whoever and whatever is going to help them. Bernie did a great job at spreading the message and awakening the inner socialist of the average American. Bravo. But now he has stepped aside and we have to continue. I believe in terms of politicians, Jill Stein and Kshama Sawant and people like them will help, but the movement continues regardless.

Enjoy your family. Nothing is more important in this crazy world than loving and being loved so just go and enjoy them.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 1 year ago

Here ya go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtI6rdCWSwA

Hope you like ;)

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22801) 1 year ago

Nice insight into your company in a down to earth way.

Not sure I have an advertising mind at all, in fact, I am sure I don't so don't listen to anything I say, lol.

I get your striving but isn't that a bit painful? The only things I strive for these days are my kids, my significant other and the 99%. I work to live, I don't live to work but I admire people who love their work as you seem to.

One tidbit of advice though, having known you on the forum for many years now: Why don't you put some of your energies into promoting up and coming politicians and activists. I think that you would do very very well with that.

Peace and solidarity, turbo. Thanks for sharing.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 1 year ago

Most of the people running for office dont want much to do with me, Im just too aggressive lol. They want to play it safe. Thats just the mind of someone doing that.

The groups are always tough to deal with as well. I like to move quick, and make decisions quick. If we are gonna fuck up, lets do it quick and move past it. Most of the groups dont roll like that.

I might be getting the chance for a radio show though, about how to get outta poverty and how to make options outta nothing.

As far as painful goes, nothing will ever compare to what Im coming from. Achieving is all I have ever known. I guess ignorance is bliss for me too, in my own fucked up way.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1756) 1 year ago

I do a nice chunk of the political promotions still. A lot of times though they have a hard time keeping up

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"One of the great successes of this campaign is that Bernie Sanders has really electrified a whole new generation of young people to become engaged in the political process."

"And they're young, and they're not apathetic, and they're energetic, and they're smart."

''We can contend that ''Sanders fundamentally changed America's political conversation, making a movement like Occupy, and an ideology like Democratic Socialism, mainstream.''

"Prior to Bernie Sanders, nobody ever dared utter the word socialism," she said. "Forget about the 10 million who cast their vote for a Democratic Socialist. Think about the many more millions, across this country, who are talking about it, probably right now. That's even more important."

''If you look at Sanders' campaign as part of a larger, progressive, populist movement that had been building for years — from Zucotti Park to Burlington, Vermont, and almost to the White House — all of a sudden it makes more sense. And it also feels, in many ways, not finished just yet.''

"People in social movements don't really see an end to their work," Wong said. "The very idea that something has failed, it's not a part of our language."


Most of the above is quoted from "Winnie Wong, founder of the online group People For Bernie, is one of the former Occupy Wall Street candidates who helped draft Bernie Sanders to run.'' .. from this following fork-tongued article by NPR:

It is of course an NPR article & so an MSM Gate Keeper Organ but it's an interesting read and seemed apt in reply to you here. I've been busy for Bernie and so less time for the forum and - like Bernie ... this Forum Still Stands .. speaking truth to power. Hope all well with you & yours; here, there & everywhere.

It's NOT over 'til it's over & the point is - IT IS NEVER Over!!! Bernie has to (& will) take it to a Contested Convention in Philly where he will force & expose The Super Delegate Fix for Hellary Rancid Clinton and then I hope he'll join Dr.Jill Stein's ticket - 'cause it may well be too late for a full Independent run!! When we look at what Bernie has done so far despite Massive Voter Registration Issues / Suppression by the DNC/DWS .. we can see what a YUUUGE Service Bernie has done for The 99%, especially as his task was Education but then quickly turned to Insurrection! This is his gift https://berniesanders.com/issues/

per ardua ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5049) 1 year ago

The less one knows, the better she looks. This is borne out in the results of the primaries and the caucuses. In my case, I know more as the Presidential reality looms larger.

There is a reason for her to set up her homebrewed private server. It's called "cover." The intelligence agencies did not trust her and she thinks that they are untrustworthy and pesky. This is why Ambassador Stevens was killed in Benghazi. There IS a reason why China gained rocket technology from the U.S. On a similar vein, Walmart used to pride itself on being an all-American company. Does it look and feel all-American now? It's Evillution, pal!

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Re. AIPAC & Hillary Rotten Clinton, these are actually the most relevant links you need here:

It is incredible to me just how naive, utopian, perfectionist & shallow, your reading of political realities in USA is! In fact one may consider it to be ''freaking shameful''!! Indeed - maybe even ''sad''!!! I hope this is all short and curt enough for you, as you fixate on Dems & try to attach Bernie to HRC rather than focus on The 99% but IF you want more expansive explanations, the salient points in the following links apply:

You may as well get your best ''Jersey'' on, as I'm up for 15, 3m rounds on this over the next week or so but I am going to get busy for Bernie right now, on the day of three more primaries in AZ, ID & UT today. See Bernie's platform. It's 99%! + fyi: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44488.htm by CLH I'm up for the Revolution, but won't sit quietly by & sit on my hands as I am also Pragmatic for The 99%.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

One thing that I would guess that we both share is that, we hope that Sanders wins big tonight too. I also give credit to Bernie for listening to many of his supporters, and not going to the AIPAC gathering in DC, but his denunciation of that vile group was tepid, and did not go near far enough for me. And his promised support of Hillary if he loses stinks, especially after the twisted speech she gave at the conference. No more excusing our leaders for political expedient reasons for me. And if you view that as being naïve, or "freaking shameful", so be it.

Sanders has done a terrific job at opening peoples' eyes up to what is going on. If he doesn't want to follow it up and leave the BS behind, he should not be surprised that people view him as "suspect", nor should he expect the full support of all the people who want real change.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

As ''we both share .. hope that Sanders wins ..'' - I'll consider our exchanges as not a full championship bout - but more like sparring with head-guards and over sized gloves! Do you think that we can agree to agree that any and all criticisms of Bernie's alleged .. ''promised support of Hillary if he loses'' - actually wait until that has transpired in reality or else - we are talking about what hasn't happened yet?!! What I considered ''freaking shameful'' is .. inter alia - an attempt to stitch Sanders to Hitlary's hip re. AIPAC!!!

See Zaid Jilani's link above on this & I agree with ''tepid'' but what's most important to you?!!! AI-fkn-PAC OR https://berniesanders.com/issues/ from an OWS/US (and then later,Global) 99% p-o-v or is that too ''political expedient'' - of me?!! It's a point I keep making with gentle jabs but you keep ducking - tho' that is allowed, lol! B's platform is the most OWS friendly & 99% focussed of any POTUS wannabe ever,imo. I believe we both like Kshama Sawant a lot. Shall we make her a long distance referee here? Consider..

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

Sanders refusal to harshly denunciate AIPAC, militarism or that witch, Hillary guarantees him a chance to return to his cushy life as Senator and all the perks that come with it. No matter how many pictures of Eugene Debbs that he puts up on his wall, nor how many times that you put up a Kshama Sawant (whom I love) link up, he is no Socialist like them, or Jill Stein or Chris Hedges for that matter..... OR at least he is not a practicing one.

Like Ms Sawant (in your link), I cannot ignore the human misery that is brought on my our Imperial wars, and how it promotes Islamophobia and racism.... and how that correlates with the huge sums of money that could be far better spent on making our World a far better one.

Sanders has not gotten to where he is without making tons of concessions to the corrupt elite. That's not saying that he did not do a lot of good though. In essence, he was a figurehead in Vermont, and served a purpose where he could do little harm in upsetting the duopoly so he went seriously unchallenged by the Democrats, and he was the false proof that we do have a well functioning democracy. ie, See there he is, an Independent!

I fully realize that my criticism of Sanders are of little matter, and also realize all the good that he has and continues to do, especially in light of all the shitty candidates out there. But, I want more. He needs to break free, completely of his corrupt ties before I'm ready to give him my full support!

EDIT; I just read this link below, and will have to admit, that for better or worse, it fits me. At least two differences are, 1. I would never vote for Hillary, and 2. I do believe that Sanders can change. I truly hope he does.

Notes From an Ultra-Radical Perfectionist

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/24/notes-from-an-ultra-radical-perfectionist/

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Good Grief! Now you are playing the man - rather than the message!! Looks like Bernie has to again pass your ''Socialism or AIPAC Test'' .. before you can support him .. BUT have you thought this out above and beyond .. YOUR personal and narrow p-o-v AND ... is this - what bw called .. ''suspect''?!!!

I'm really rather cross now at your reply above as it is: naive, puritanical and sanctimonious imo, to a really quite unacceptable level! You seem to speak with two voices above - as though you are deeply conflicted!! Furthermore ... name and specify his alleged ''corrupt ties'' - because I'm NOT taking your expression of subjective opinion as any assertion of objective fact!!! Bernie is NOT a Democrap, ffs!!!!

I end by quoting Bernie directly:''I'm going to do my best to create a country in which children are not living in poverty, in which kids can go to college, in which old people can have healthcare. Will I succeed? I can't guarantee you that ... but I can tell you from a human point of view - it is better to show up than to give up!'' + Again fyi - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30pdyzWOxnE

So ... which bit of that or https://berniesanders.com/issues/ .. do you disagree with? I'll read your link later - when I've calmed down but no more head guards or oversized gloves & I suggest you take your over-sized clown-shoes off too! I'm off to get busy for Alaska, Washington & Hawaii Caucuses now as:

tempus fugit!


Also see my reply to you here ... http://occupywallst.org/forum/looks-like-trump-is-the-man/#comment-1070275 - made when I was about 5 degrees cooler and nothing like as cross as I was replying above!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

Barack was supposedly no "Democrap" either, and look what happened! Makes my going to DC to witness his first inauguration seem kinda stupid, don't-ya think? I'll get back to you tomorrow, or the next day, or.... I wanted to give you a chance to stew... err I mean calm down. You're "cross" at me? That means pissed off, right?

EDIT: Maybe, before you pass your harsh judgement on people who do not agree with you, you should give thought to Harper Lee's (RIP... deceased recently) words in her book, To Kill A Mockingbird, "You never know a man until you understand things from his point of view, until you climb into his skin and walk around in it."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Consider that maybe the trauma of the past .. is troubling your present .. and so clouding your vision of the future?! I have NO idea whereTF .. you are getting ''Barack was supposedly no Democrap" from, as he was/is ... ''Democrap To The Fkn Bone" .. AND you are forgetting The Global & US National RELIEF FACTOR that BO was NO GWB, imo!! Get over yourself & how, "stupid" you felt for going to Obomber's inauguration .. as we were ALL there in body or in Spirit & there's NO shame in hoping or wanting better OR in being fooled - as ''hope springs eternal'' and That Is Honorable!

Don't go feeble minded on me re. my alleged .. ''harsh judgement'' here - it's a fair scrap & you were not slow with that at bw - right? I know the book very well but I am not looking to ''know'' you .. I am making points and observations for The 99%, OWS and .. Bernie's OWS 2.0 ;-) so all is fair game here. Try this for some roots of The 99% dilemma in U$A ...

Btw my being ''cross'' could be .. angry; annoyed; irritated; or ''pissed off'' if you like - but DO NOT take things so personally .. you can't and shouldn't be in ANY doubt for my affection for you and your family, ''Ye Big Joizey Blockhead'', you! Calm down & toke on a fat one, here: ========###~~' with me now!

Finally - I am not reading ''Notes From an Ultra-Radical Perfectionist'' - because it may send me over the edge & I may not be able to un-cross myself, lol. I'll read it after the DNC in July or maybe in December!

pax, amor et lux, et - respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

OK, let me give you this little analogy. Let's say we both need newer second hand cars... (eco friendly ones preferably & definitely not MGs..no offense...;). You're young and can't wait to jump in your new car, so you buy yours' right away in the hopes that the little tick that you hear in the transmission won't turn into a major problem. I'm a bit more mature (old!;( and wait to fork over my money for a car with the same disturbing noise. Instead, from having gotten screwed badly in the past, I ask an independent mechanic to check the car out thoroughly, before I give the dealer my money, and if indeed the car needed repairs, I would expect the dealer to do them before he got my money. I'm not asking you to stop doing your thing... you go about pursing our struggle your way, and I'll do it my way.

I've done a lot of reading and soul searching in the last few days. I so much want our movement to succeed, and hopefully Sanders' win will make that more likely, and I do know that it will take a lot more than that.... as bw recently pointed out accurately in a post, but I am very concerned that our revolution will get swallowed up by the Democratic Party. There is a long history of that as I'm sure that you know...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in one post... that you implied that we should wait to see if Sanders wins or loses, and just see how things play out (before you get cross with me & me pissed at you ;). I adamantly disagree that we should wait. This is a bottom up revolution, remember? Instead, I believe that a lot the people that support Bernie should take the initiative... use this time constructively to see that it is far less likely that a our struggle dies like so many other ones have in the Democratic Party.

I thought about bringing this idea up for for several days, but was amazed, and maybe a little disappointed ;( that other people (about 70,000 of them...;) already had this idea. Sanders may have had to sign a pact with the devil in order to get the benefit$ of running as a Democrat...BUT I didn't!! Anyway, I had no qualms at all about signing on. And I do realize that there are really good benefits... one of which is ... putting more leverage on super delegates by taking this action, and perhaps the consequences if we failed, no matter whether a D or R wins... from my POV, both stink... and we're screwed!

Finally, I will not overlook it when I think that Sanders' obviously doesn't walk the talk, and will continue to demand more from him. We've lived so long with far too less....

Bernie or Bust

https://citizensagainstplutocracy.wordpress.com/

OK... now.. ====####~~'

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Now suppose I was to equate ''old'' to being sceptical (especially due to previously being ''screwed'' - as opposed to ''Berned'' ;-) and very possibly as result - being cynical too?!!! How offended would you be?!! Even IF that was not my intent and btw .. your analogy falls down at the "dealer" stage .. because there is no ''dealer'', only our own intuition!

The thing is ''Our Movement'' has been going on for hundreds of years with both OWS and Bernie {OWS 2.0!!} as just the most significant latest milestones.As Bernie Sanders himself says [per 1st link below]:


''Let me tell you something that no other candidate for president will tell you. And that is no matter who is elected to be president, that person will not be able to address the enormous problems facing the working families of our country. They will not be able to succeed because the power of Corporate America, the power of Wall Street, the power of campaign donors is so great that no president alone can stand up to them.''

''That is the truth. People may be uncomfortable about hearing it, but that is the reality. And that is why what this campaign is about is saying loudly and clearly: It is not just about elected Bernie Sanders for president, it is about creating a grassroots political movement in this country.''


If your real concern is ''Democrap Co-Option'' .. please let me share with you that imo - Bernie's skill and strategy may just mean that - The Dems & DNC are the ones who are being co-opted! I TOTALLY agree with Kshama Sawant's thoughts [I'll spare you the link again} & believe that if/when HRC & DWS & DNC finagle him out; then he must go Independent or possibly with The Greens of Dr.Jill Stein's Green Party!! This possibility increases as time goes by; as does the HUGE level of 99% Centred Education Bernie is bringing to The US and Global 99% and the value of this point ... just can NOT be underestimated here!!!

I did say ''wait'' in my second reply above and I say the same again but I am NOT actually waiting .. I am doing what I can for Bernie now - in my own way and ever day. You ''adamantly disagree'' and don't want to "wait''? Ok. What do you want to do? This Bernie, OWS 2.0 thing is on another level of politics - that I have never seen in the U$A, in my lifetime but I'm still open to thoughts and ideas as to what else to do.

Finally - what "pact with the devil"?! I don't know what you're talking about there!! Do you really think that his 60 year Personal Revolutionary Path indicates that he is in this thing for himself?!!! Look man .. don't ''overlook'' anything and I can agree totally that we should ''continue to demand more from him'' but - I will NOT forsake him at this critically important time. I have more to say but also things to do - so I end now with some relevant links ...

From your link - ''Why Senator Sanders? While we do not agree with every vote Bernie has taken as a member of Congress, we believe that he’s the only revolutionary candidate opposed to plutocracy and the “best bet” for winning the election in 2016. Sanders is running on a “radical idea,” telling the truth.

''Revolt Beyond Bernie: We seek political power for the sane majority, who are opposed to government of, by and for the wealthy. Bernie Sanders is not responsible for what we do but, we can help him fight battles–especially against the DNC– like few others can.'' Thanx and I'll finish that stub now ==###~~'

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

I'll answer this later. Newsflash: Hillary left the campaign trail today for a fancy, big monied fundraiser at the Dakotas (Yoko Ono's?) on the Upper West Side. As I write this, protesters are preparing to greet her including two very dynamic creative activists, and friends, Marni & Elliot. Unfortunately I had other things going on today, so I missed it, but I did tell them in a text that I respected them much. There should be some good pictures coming out.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

I hope Marni, Elliot and crew gave Hitlary an earful at Yoko's li'l millionaire's fundraiser - at The Dakotas. Mr. & Mrs. Clooney did the same recently. Millionaires much prefer Billary Rotten Clinton because any thoughts of some extra tax liability is so repugnant to their pseudo-liberal sensibilities. Also see here...

These are the times that Americans should realise in general - just how Right-Wing ''Liberal'' actually is and in particular, just how Reich-Wing Shillary really is! The US MSM version of the American Political Spectrum goes from a - Neoliberal ''Vaguely Socially Liberal'' Imperial Neocon Endorsing Notion of R-W ''Liberal'' ... all the way through to the Bat Shit Crazy RWNJs like Cruz and worse. There is a previously amorphous ''American Left'' that's now coalescing behind Bernie. Many things are increasingly possible for The US 99% right now. I look forward with hope, excitement & with determination to do my bit. + fyi:

Consider .. ''Sanders' talented campaign team has learned how to benefit from activists that can and are organizing themselves, creating their own communities online and in neighborhoods. This is energy that will continue long after the campaign is over.'' - from ...

dum spiro, spero et per ardua ad astra!

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

I found this link on the Dakota protest this morning. You can see Marni dressed as Hillary with money dangling from her. I don't think that Elliot made it though as I don't see him. I have tons of respect for their dedication.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-JTMyio1jx8&autoplay=1

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

That was scary! Masked Marni looked just like the cloned offspring of SHillary & tRUMP!! Kudos to your comrades!!! I've got to darken the mood a li'l now with a very good article by one of my favorite journalists

From which, I very briefly quote: ''When it comes to Obama, people have to own their disappointment. That doesn’t mean it’s not valid, just that it often says as much about them as it does about him. No individual can solve America’s problems. Most radical change in the US, like elsewhere, comes from huge social movements from below. Poor people cannot simply elect a better life for themselves and expect that vested interests won’t resist them at every turn: that’s not how western democracy works."

And ''I supported Obama against Hillary Clinton because he had opposed the war in Iraq at a time when that could have damaged his political career; she had supported it in order to sustain her own. I thought he was the most progressive candidate that could be elected, & while even his agenda was inadequate for the needs of the people I most care about – the poor and the marginalised – it could still make a difference. I got my disappointment in early, to avoid the rush.''

I'll leave it at that now and re-recommend my links in the previous reply to you. In fact - all the ''replies''!

pax.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

Make no mistake about it though, Marni is a tremendous asset to our struggle. And whether dressing in an often provocative, or "scary" (Hillary;) outfit during a protest, she is an intelligent and very dedicated young lady.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/nyregion/marni-halasa-professional-protester.html?referer=&_r=0

In a "darker mood," I will accept responsibility for my generation having fallen asleep at the wheel, but will not equate that with, or attempt to absolve the people that carried out their nefarious agenda on us.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Go Situationist Pranksters For Bernie!!! You should know that I know Marni - on your recommendation!! Great link & you are absolutely right - she ain't no slouch! You may wish to bring this to her attention ...

Finally - no need to ''absolve'' anyone of anything but forget your assumed "responsibility"" for The Past!! Grasp The Moment & The Momentum For The Future!! Press The Peddle To The Metal - For OWS 2.0!!!

respice, adspice, prospice; carpe diem; per ardua ad astra ....

[-] -1 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 1 year ago

Seems strange that Bernie claims to be powerless to help working families if he is elected. I never liked politicians and philosophers that are negative, instead of positive. We should always believe change is possible and strive to achieve it. I wish Bernie believed in his powers to change things.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Personality Disorder projecting, rancid, mendacious hypocrite - much?! So you ''never liked politicians and philosophers that are negative''!! As ever - u have nothing to add and nothing to say, bar revealing the ever more mixed up and completely confused noxious nature of your muddled mind, u fkn halfwit!!!

vale et temet nosce ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5049) 1 year ago

That's Feel the Bern until it flames out. It's choosing the ONLY sane candidate.

Herr Drumpf seems oblivious of the climate threats and wishes for big tax cuts for himself and other oligarchs. Does he seem like Crazy Eddie? Of course, if you believe in the Passion of the Christ and get Ted Cruz instead, it would be even worse because we'd be crucified in addition to being mugged. We're already $19 trillions downunder. Digging a deeper hole and digging it faster seems awfully stupid, considering that the [Non-]U.S. [Non-]Federal [No-]Reserve is already afraid of raising interest rates, lest the debt bombs should detonate.

I lived through the supply-side economics of the demented Reagan (famously called voodoo economics by the elder Bush). The economy grew but we only got DEEPER into the hole. The Laffer Curve was good for a not-so-funny laugh, but disastrous for the Middle Class as we can see by now decades later. Only when the elder Bush reneged on his Meineke man's vow, "Read my lips. No new taxes!" did the hole begin to be filled in a bit. It seems that the Retardicans are still casting the spell of "voodoo economics."

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

So you're signing "The Pledge" not to vote for Hillary if Sanders loses?

Bernie or Bust

https://citizensagainstplutocracy.wordpress.com/

[-] 2 points by grapes (5049) 1 year ago

Of course. Heaven or Hell is of our own making. It's no big deal really because so many have said that "I am taking full responsibility for __!" after $&£% has happened. Then no $&£% happens. I have Dr. Who's escape pod ready to go, after all, having learnt of the importance of that from the Apollo project. We shall resolve to put me in the ground, six feet under and back, on Judgment Day before God's week's out.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

Good.

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

"The trauma of the past.. is troubling..[my] present... and so clouding..[my] vision of the future." No, I don't think that's it at all. Like most people though I learn from my mistakes! You?

SO I will continue to hold Sanders' feet to the fire as the Bernie or Bust campaign is doing, and like the petition calling for him to boycott the AIPAC conference did. And, I like others in that campaign in particular will criticize him for not strongly denouncing that vile group. You might want to wait for a directive from his people before you take action, but I am not.

BTW, have you joined the Bernie or Bust campaign? I didn't ask yet, right? Anyway, what would your reason be for not joining it, especially since, the bigger it got.. the more it would encourage many super delegates to support Sanders? I hope you're not thinking of voting for Hillary if Sanders were to lose, and Bernie asked you to nicely.

Bernie or Bust ... "Ready to start a political revolution?"

https://citizensagainstplutocracy.wordpress.com/

Re. Your below post; I avoid being around cynical people and work on not becoming one. A simplistic definition that I adhere to is; A cynical person is a person that never became skeptical, then got screwed and became immediately cynical! I do miss not being an idealist though. It's just... I found myself losing too much of what I held most dearly. I guess that's one of the main reasons (not having enough skeptics) we are here, eh?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

I have never voted for Obama and so don't have the ''trauma'' of broken heart or resentment at having been had. However, I too was taken in by him initially - because I didn't then know the facts to know better nor was I sufficiently cynical to assume the worst.All this was further compounded by the fact that - there was a HUGE relief of GWB gone, with no Repugnant Warmonger (like McCain) to follow!

I thought that we'd done our 15 x 3m rounds here but it seems that you are up for more. Fairy Nuff. You continue your ''feet to the fire'' campaign .. but IF you believe that renouncing AIPAC {and its immediate political consequences} somehow trumps the immediate and pressing needs of The US 99% .. then we are miles apart on that one! As an aside - I don't like your tone about "directive" either!! Nor your cranky hypothetical questions & I have no fkn idea wtf you're thinking you are doing asking me if I'm thinking of voting for HRC - AND do you think that you may feel just a tad insulted IF I asked you .. that given your disapproval of various aspects of Bernie's actions ... if you are considering voting for Trump?!!! Hmmmm.

Scepticism has its place and can be healthy but cynicism in mostly self-defeating & sort of reactionary. Be very wary of harking for The Purity of being an ''idealist'' or of being ''cynical'', as a result of feeling ''screwed''! The needs of The 99% trump personal feelings right now .. imo. Other Occupiers may agree:

I quote ''Why Senator Sanders? While we do not agree with every vote Bernie has taken as a member of Congress, we believe that he’s the only revolutionary candidate opposed to plutocracy and the “best bet” for winning the election in 2016. Sanders is running on a “radical idea,” telling the truth.

''Revolt Beyond Bernie: We seek political power for the sane majority, who are opposed to government of, by and for the wealthy. Bernie Sanders is not responsible for what we do but, we can help him fight battles–especially against the DNC– like few others can."

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

I'll pick up on this later. I just got a text from one of my two daughters in Alaska. She was elated that Sanders had a landslide victory, 79%. I can't control those kids either. I guess Sanders, being their Congressman when they were teenagers back in Vermont affected them.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22801) 1 year ago

Couldn't possibly have been that your daughters know something good when they see it?

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

Yes, they probably got some of that from their Mom & Dad. In my defense, wanting someone who is running for President to rid himself of the BS that results in untold human misery, and the World that they and my granddaughters grow up in... before he gets my full support is not unreasonable.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5049) 1 year ago

I'm in the mood of being the grammar police, having seen quite a few public-school mutations popped up. It should be "when they were teenagers back in Vermont affected them." Effect/affect mutation probably started with American pronunciations of short e and short a aliasing in public-school teenagers' feeling squeamish and appearing amorous and sissy using "affect."

[-] 1 points by fionachuckles (-375) from Fairview, NJ 1 year ago

Are you the one they used to call zendog? I remember that troll got banned months ago...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5049) 1 year ago

He's Thor's Hammer from alten Zeiten based in the thought/gangster police state of the oxymoron, "garden" in Elizabeth. He hasn't dispensed "metal or finger" yet, unlike the "poet."

[-] 1 points by Viking (417) 1 year ago

No, it's sad for me to say this, but I would be ashamed to be him.