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Forum Post: Liberals want to end America

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 29, 2011, 1:41 p.m. EST by mandodod (144)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Remember that the US is half conservative. We will never let the US go the way of Europe. Look what has happened to them. Their spending is unsustainable. We need small Government to survive.

42 Comments

42 Comments


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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23782) 12 years ago

Well, conservatives sure have been louder in this country, that is until recently....

[-] 3 points by Vooter (441) 12 years ago

THEIR spending is unsustainable??? LOLOLOLOL...don't worry, we're going the way of Europe. Just not the way you're thinking....

[-] 3 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 12 years ago

Perhaps we do.. however, government allows for things that a free market does not, because it is interested in more than the bottom line. So some sort of balance seems to be necessary. For example. Because the market is so free- our investment banks are able to gamble with derivatives rather than invest in venture capitalism. This is a real problem. What happens to innovation under these circumstances? A government program designed to encourage large scale investment in new ideas would help balance this. Alternately, we can use government regulations to curtail some of the emphasis on trading and encourage these banks to invest in our country.

[-] 3 points by Fishp00 (122) 12 years ago

Are you proposing we split up the U.S. and call it even???

The Blue States and The Red States.

hmmm you guys can have a small government that proposes that people can do whatever they like to others as long as they call it capitalism and our government will be reclaimed by the people for the people. Considering we blue states usually have the most people we should be making decisions to protect and serve them anyway.

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[-] 2 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 12 years ago

Thank you for engaging OWS. I hope OWS will be serious about its 99% slogan and reach out to everyone, especially Conservatives.

I'm an American patriot, but I happen to be in Paris at the moment. I'm a bit homesick, actually, and I definitely do not want the French system. But it's worth considering a few things:

Do you know that Every French citizen/ worker gets: 1) Free health care (even covers your kid's braces!) 2) Free university education 3) 5 weeks PAID vacation (this is for Everyone... even people working at McDonald's and other USA outlets) 4) Retirement age of 60

And I think (but don't quote me) the minimum wage is about $1000 per month. Not bad, eh? It's not perfect. For example, our universities are indeed better. But hey, theirs are Free!

Again, I would not want to change anything about our American Constitution or Democracy-- except to outlaw the "legalized bribery" that is completely corrupting it by allowing corporations to virtually buy our politicians. But I'm sure we could at least provide health care and give allow people to take more vacation time to enjoy life. (French are very big on enjoying life and don't really work that hard).

As for the European crisis... I don't know a lot about it, but it's not necessarily big spending that is causing the problem. It is Greek debt, and the Greeks got into the derivatives racket along with US firms. France is fine. Germany is fine. Lots of the northern countries are fine. But they're all tied to the euro... so there's a problem.

lastly... I'm all for free enterprise/ capitalism. I just want regulations to keep that monster from destroying human life and planet Earth.

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[-] 0 points by mandodod (144) 12 years ago

Great about French healthcare and all the free stuff. But did you know that the French healthcare system is billions in the red? Most of Europe has free healthcare but it is unsustainable. All the free stuff is great until it all goes away when there is no more money. The problem with Greese is more than big spending. It is also their culture of not paying taxes.

[-] 1 points by beamerbikeclub (414) 12 years ago

no I did not "know" that French healthcare is "in the red" and after you have asserted it I still don't "know" it. No one here in France seems to "know" it either. For all the protesting and political discussions they are having, that's one issue that hasn't come up. In other words, I think you swallowed some USA propaganda on that one.

And it doesn't make sense that health care is "unsustainable". It seems super sustainable to the private US insurers that makes billions in profits from our privatized system. You have to imagine that the French could at least break even (especially since they seem to be a lot healthier in general, despite their enjoyment of wine and cigarettes. (the fresh vegetables and hand-crafted cheese and lack of "super-size" portions may help.

And finally, don't know what info you have on Greece. The reporting I have followed always talks about Greeece having been hit by the same thing that hit US markets... so they are looking for the same bailout from their European partners. It's like Deleware going bankrupt and looking to the US. But I have also heard that Greece does not have a very strong economy-- tourism being one of their top sources. Perhaps they should pay more taxes. But that's for them to decide.

[-] 2 points by PandoraK (1678) 12 years ago

Forum Post: Liberals want to end America

What a wonderful way to title a post! Immediate confrontation, with a false statement.

We trundled along pretty darned well with those regulations in place. Corporations made money while protecting the investors, investors made money, workers earned a living which supported the housing industry, which in turn helped support the auto industry, which in turn...

Regulations help the honest stay honest, the dishonest will do whatever they will do, knowing the consequences when caught.

We need national standards, highways, commerce etc or we dissolve into virtual city states with nothing in common.

We have three recognized parties, Conservative, Democrat and Independent, which leads to the conclusion that neither Democrat or Conservative holds half the nation, as the Independents divide them.

The Constitution is a living document, able to change as the people see fit, it is not written in stone with no option for change. The authors were wise enough to realize that the population of slightly over 50 million (estimated) was going to change into numbers possibly unimaginable to them at the time, but growth was a given. With growth comes the need for change.

The Constitution with it's built in ability to change is also subject to changes that aren't good for the nation, the beauty is that the change also allows it to recover from those less than stellar changes.

When engaging in confrontation it is always best to do so based on fact, not emotion or falsity.

[-] 2 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 12 years ago

In some states, there is no such thing as registering "independent". Where I am, the registration is "unaffiliated". Very few people who are registered as unaffiliated know that.

Independent is not a party, just to be exact about it. It is the no-party choice.

The independent/unaffiliated are the swing voters.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 12 years ago

I use the word Independent loosely to cover everything that isn't covered between the two major parties.

Better to be unaffiliated than to be affiliated I would think for some, I know it is for me. It helps keep the self honesty factor working full time.

[-] 1 points by cmt (1195) from Tolland, CT 12 years ago

That's cool. I was just trying to be accurate as I've found many unaffiliated voters to be unclear.

[-] 1 points by PandoraK (1678) 12 years ago

Not trying to overstate, just making the statement a bit more clear...I tend to forget that we all have our 'dialects' and what a word means to one might not mean exactly the same thing to all...took me forever to figure out y'll was actually two words run together.

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[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

Right. Pbbtttt.... where do you come up with this?

[-] 2 points by XaiverBuchsIV (508) 12 years ago

Whoops! Wrong again. Number of registered voters by party:

72 million Democrats 55 million Republicans 42 million Independents

If smaller government is better, NO government must be the best!

[-] 1 points by kingscrosssection (314) 12 years ago

He meant that there is a substantial amount of conservatives. to be honest, they would probably come out as a draw ifit came down to a fight because they have more guns.

[-] 0 points by BumpyTheBumper (-16) 12 years ago

Another uninformed liberal trying to convince herself that she's the majority.

[-] 0 points by Tinhorn (285) 12 years ago

Your post is close to correct. Problem is Democrat does not equal Liberal. His post said Liberal's want to end America, not Democrats. Most democrats run away from Liberals.

[-] -3 points by superman22x (188) 12 years ago

Libtard thinking right there.

[-] 2 points by XaiverBuchsIV (508) 12 years ago

I think you mean Libertard.

[-] 1 points by American4ThePeople (11) 12 years ago

@superman22x what are we are we 12 name calling just stick to the facts

[+] -4 points by mandodod (144) 12 years ago

Whoops! We will have a civil war. Who do you think would win?

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 12 years ago

Nobody.

[-] 1 points by OWSWhat (66) 12 years ago

Over 70% of independents will not vote for commando Odumbo in 2012. The poor dummycrats are really going to suffer next year

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

This is way out of date.

The republicans ended it years ago.

Some people just wake up late, and miss the bus.

[-] 1 points by Brandon37 (372) 12 years ago

It's over half. Only 20 percent of the population calls themselves liberal.

[-] 1 points by thrsaymaquf (15) 12 years ago

the usa and europe have both gone the same way- there governments are corrupt and only support the rich who payed for them to be in power--- the best governments money can buy..

we need a very large government- with its only concern is taking care of the us population- like in of the people by the people and for the people-

training web page http://url2it.com/jsne thrasymaque

[-] 1 points by mandodod (144) 12 years ago

Nope, tiny Gonernment. We cannot afford to pay for everything. If Jack in the Box gave away free hambergers mon-fri, they would go belly up in 6 months. The only reason we have not gone belly up yet is because we keep printing money out of thin air.

[-] 1 points by TheTrollSlayer (347) from Kingsport, TN 12 years ago

From what i can tell its also to end american ignorance and propaganda that makes fools like you think your speaking for this country instead of against it. And theres much more. The movement can document thru many years what its standing against. Being Fox news politically stupid is no way to go thru life son, educate yourself.

[-] 1 points by Jellow (5) 12 years ago

The Plan is actually to bring the whole world into the China model. China has been the test case. China is being used (through the devaluing of their curency) to drain the whole world, putting every country into debt. When the time is ready China will demand their deus. Then China will see that they were just being used, and the Rothchilds will secure their place of supremacy, defacto Rulers.

[-] 1 points by aahpat (1407) 12 years ago

Wrong on all points.

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[-] 0 points by BumpyTheBumper (-16) 12 years ago

America is not half liberal and half conservative. Most of America is considered wishy washy moderates...they embrace both liberal and conservative ideology.

By saying that America is half conservative you give to much credibility to liberals.

And liberals are not the opposite of conservatives. Some how they've managed to be on their own spectrum. What is the opposite of burning the American flag?

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 12 years ago

Give up. These Red scum will never believe anything will work except there system of gulags/concentration camps/graveyards.

[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

conservatives want to end America. thats why they make this insane shit up about liberals to play scare tactics by which to bring about the very thing they are trying to terrify you with.

========

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA

I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

  1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
  2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
  3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
  4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
  5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
  6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
  7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.
  8. I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement.
  9. Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction.
  10. The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country.
  11. Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY

http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ

http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw

http://www.opensecrets.org/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/

[-] 0 points by jaimes (86) 12 years ago

You have to a registered dem/republican to vote in their primaires. In a general election , you are not bound by your registered party affiliation.

[-] -3 points by energy17 (4) 12 years ago

Liberals have been trained that "Constitution" is a dirty word. That is total propaganda. The Constitution is a beautiful document composed by the most brilliant men in history. Our Constitution has lasted over 200 years while other countries' constitutions frequently are less than ten years old.

The NDAA is a huge attack on political freedom right now. Call your senator to get this bill quashed.

http://newworldordersatire.com/2011/11/29/national-defense-authorization-act-more-federal-tyranny/

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

Are you a graduate of Beck U?

[-] 0 points by energy17 (4) 12 years ago

hahaha I try to be friendly anyway... but the system is way beyond the sophistication of the two party facade. The two parties are only for public consumption. The "Conservatives" are really liberals because they are not defending the Constitution either. By "liberal" I don't just mean Democrats.

Beck is just a creature of the media to me. He only attacks the system when that ploy serves his ratings objectives.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

Liberals have not been trained that the Constitution is a dirty word. That is a bunch of crap. By liberal, I mean lee-bur-uhl.