Forum Post: How to get 40 percent of country to appreciate a Change in course is needed.
Posted 6 years ago on June 26, 2018, 10:15 a.m. EST by gsw
(3420)
from Woodbridge Township, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Democrats in the United States are already falling into this trap. They’re not going to win the 2020 presidential elections by convincing Donald Trump supporters that they were wrong to vote for him last November or that they’re responsible for his failures in office. Instead, as author and psychology professor Robert Cialdini explains, Democrats must offer Trump supporters a way to get out of their prior commitment while saving face: “Well, of course you were in a position to make that decision in November because no one knew about X.” https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/facts-dont-change-peoples-minds-heres-what-does
One month till these trump voters to start to wake up to the effects of their ignorant and deficient belief systems . Are they really pro American or just selfish, and especially the non voters http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-dorfman-chilean-plebiscite-lessons-for-america-20181005-story.html
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-ol-le-vote-democracy-20181007-story.html
Come on trumpers, follow this guy back to moderation from crazy power grab sellout GOP...you know is the correct thing to do https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/tom-nichols-why-im-leaving-republican-party/572419/
Was blind and now I see, Trumps a fake news president, and he’s a born scammer, but some of The people were not fooled all the time, just about 40 percent who still seem to only fool themselves?
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/d3q4kv/this-is-how-the-rich-steal-from-america
But he is a good god fearing man? Much of this money came to Mr. Trump because he helped his parents dodge taxes. He and his siblings set up a sham corporation to disguise millions of dollars in gifts from their parents, records and interviews show. Records indicate that Mr. Trump helped his father take improper tax deductions worth millions more. He also helped formulate a strategy to undervalue his parents’ real estate holdings by hundreds of millions of dollars on tax returns, sharply reducing the tax bill when those properties were transferred to him and his siblings.“
It's the Thomas Piketty thesis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_in_the_Twenty-First_Century
"The book's central thesis is that when the rate of return on capital (r) is greater than the rate of economic growth (g) over the long term, the result is concentration of wealth, and this unequal distribution of wealth causes social and economic instability. Piketty proposes a global system of progressive wealth taxes to help reduce inequality and avoid the vast majority of wealth coming under the control of a tiny minority."
Inheritance is really how most people get wealthy and hold onto wealth. "Merit" leads to riches much much less frequently. Hence, tax the rich!
But there is one simple strategy Democrats can employ as they hone in on a challenge to the president two years from now: relentlessly target the GOP not just as the party of the rich or the party of cruelty to immigrants or other marginalized groups, but the party of fraud, organized crime, and cheating.
Smack in the face good journalism https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/03/politics/donald-trump-taxes-fred-trump/
Hey Trumpers! YOUR GOP is Ballooning the USA DEBT!
Wake Up Please!
Tax Reform 2.0 robs even more from your future
https://usat.ly/2OKoM5T
I've noticed that some GOP candidates are running adds where they don't say who their party is - I guess they hope people won't look them up to find out that they are part of this horrendous presidency, administration & congressional supporters.
When I find em on twitter - I like to point this attempt at distancing by omission out - you know so that their possible supporters know that they are part of this current bloody train wreck.
I'm surprised that cons have enough courage to distance themselves from anything they're programmed to support.
"... submission is a trait common amongst conservatives, who hold the projection of strength above all else. This is likely due to their Ayn-Randian philosophy of survival of the fittest. The ones they perceive as strong are to be revered and feared. They are more rich, more powerful, and therefore better—it’s okay to submit to them.
"To liberals, who always stand up to power, this is bizarre and sickening behavior. We can’t comprehend why they constantly humiliate and degrade themselves ..."
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/7/28/1784147/-Meghan-McCain-s-Disgrace-Proves-the-Point-Conservatives-Are-Prone-to-Submission
OH - they STILL use the same talking points - they (some who realize just how toxic the GOP is becoming in the eyes of a growing number of the population) just try to keep it low (lower) key. All that happy bull shit about "gov not being job makers, but we know you are so we want money in your pockets" (when full disclosure = Truth - would be - they want the money in the pockets of the wealthy few who they cater to and are creating jobs (off-shore in sweatshops) and will tax the hell out of the rest of the population! As well as destroy all public protections to squeeze even more out for the wealthy few!
(edit) Plenty of uneducated as well as educated (? or is that = indoctrinated!) individuals do not or WILL NOT (refuse to) recognize the truth about t GOP and it's party members (white supremacist fascism anyone? that is all about supporting a feudal lord system).
Plantations have been replaced with CorpoRATions and indentured workers or share croppers are now called (or known as) wage slaves & Credit Slaves and just plain old slaves are known as prisoners in the for profit Corp Prison System!
But otherwise good people do not see this WILL NOT (REFUSE TO) SEE THIS !
Hell some GOP (pawns) supporters, actually believe that they are ANARCHISTS and refuse to see that they are supporting a feudal lord system that is couched as a government of the people (BLATANT LIE). The GOP campaigns on wanting to end government - BUT - THAT is opposite speak again, because they LOVE the part of government which caters to the wealthy few (would be) feudal lords, especially the arms of government which protect their unchallenged (in some parts of the country) suzerainty!
EDIT: And yes = it is not ALL self identified @GOP office holders - it is also Dem's that vote with em!
Is it just me, or is stuff like this https://www.truthdig.com/articles/are-trumps-mar-a-lago-cronies-secretly-running-the-va/
Slightly more important than a private email server?
I take it you mean sHillary's use of it for government business that should be on a secure government server/lap-top/desk-top computer?
I think that both issues (criminal trump & criminal clinton) are important.
Still: I find it totally insane as to the extent of trumps criminal presidency, administration agency/institution appointees and senate & congress.
Yes. It is just ironic that the “lock em up” crowd is happy to look the other way and excuse the massive amounts of crimes, ethical lapses, and swampy behavior that is emanating from the present White House.
The republican mob has a much higher threshold for accountability for their political leaders.
Yes, all should be held to the highest standard in government.
They are supposed to be highly educated - so ignorance of the law (which is supposed to be No excuse) is even LESS of an excuse.
RIGGED What if Trump Has Created a Monster That No Republican Can Control After He’s Gone? Trump will go out and give speeches this fall to his besotted crowds asserting that Russia is helping the Democrats
The cons have created a brain-drained mob of unscientific, self- centered mob of drones who are happy to believe in myths and authoritarian rule, while the earth and climate provide warnings and signs we must change ourselves and not relinquish the dream of democracy and truth, will lead us to a truer freedom, to believe progress can happen for good. Unite for Truth
https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-if-trump-has-created-a-monster-that-no-republican-can-control-after-hes-gone?ref=wrap
I disagree... the Trumpians want to be able to leave their doors unlocked again and it is their primary concern to the exclusion of all other issues...and sorry but the immigrant population unfortunately has a large chunk of gangs, drug culture, crime in it's midst. I live in an area where sadly this is true. But America isn't the third world. We aren't Mexico or Dominican Republic or Nigeria. Crime is foreign to us. It isn't our culture or way of life. We arent and werent prepared to deal with it. We didnt grow up having to look over our shoulders...we had some relative peace. So I don't blame people for making the association because it isnt just in their heads. The hard truth is...it doesn't spring out of nowhere, the high crime numbers are real and do go up when the cukture aka diversity increases. The Trumpians don't care about anything else...because firstly they want to be safe. They want their family and kids to be safe. They don't want to be around gangs or drug culture or shootings. They don't want to be around young adults turning their neighborhoods into an all night booming nightclub. They want peace and tranquility. And truth be told the reason immigrants come here is because America has developed a higher quality of life that actually allows people to be even able to focus on "first world problems" like security, quiet, and grass. So yeah I get them, those " evil Trumpians". I like peace and safety also so i guess I can kind of get where they are coming from. They want to maintain the idea that "someone elses freedom to swing their fist ends at my nose." It seems to them a good chunk of immigrants seem to be taking this idea for granted and show a lack of respect and courtesy for the culture of where they are moving to. It's about courtesy and respect. Preying on our citizens with theft drugs id theft and crime and turning once peaceful neighborhoods into night clubs is no better than WS. Entitled is the word I'm looking for. And dont give me this poor bs. It has little to do with it, It's about making a killing fast and easy and viewing naive 'crime virgin' Americans as easy pickings... same as WS. Murdering or pillaging is never excusable by WS or by immigrant gangs. And while not all immigrants cause crime. Everytime it's mentioned those who dont get seemingly weirdly defensive instead of saying yeah crime sucks. Like the people who are scared shouldn't care or be mentioning it and are themselves the problem. So there is a bit of gaslighting from that side as well going on. You can live poor and not commit crime. One doesn't have to coincide with the other. And I don't think we should excuse when it does.
I can not disagree with anything you have eloquently expressed on this matter.
As one whose daughter had a undocumented gang member invade the home and beat mercilessly, I understand the pain it brings, to get justice served to one who feels above laws, and threatens with violence and death to the whole family, I,agree that is not the world any should have to experience.
The crime culture which robs all of there basic rights and freedoms from fear, is all too prevalent in much of the world. In the past I would love to walk los Caminos de los pueblos Mejicanos, but the peaceful idyllic past has been rudely encroached upon by gangs of violent killers and kidnappers, people without any regard for individual life, and peace.
We must agree to abide by common fundamental principals of life, and liberty, safety, and rule of law for all
It is good better to understand and appreciate some commonality.
No one wishes for a daughter be beaten by a gangster
There are never enough words that can comfort victims of such violence I'm sorry she and you have had to experience this. I only hope she is getting both adequate physical and emotional care. I think we can only say victim is not a negative word and a victim is never to blame and that we can recognize her pain and the lasting wounds on her and the people who love her. I believe safety is a fundamental right.
Additionally, ..... from chapter 8 https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/
resentment in the United States. In the person of Donald Trump, resentment entered the White House. It rode in on the back of an alliance between a tiny subset of super-wealthy 0.1 percenters (not all of them necessarily American) and a large number of 90 percenters who stand for pretty much everything the 9.9 percent are not.
According to exit polls by CNN and Pew, Trump won white voters by about 20 percent. But these weren’t just any old whites (though they were old, too). The first thing to know about the substantial majority of them is that they weren’t the winners in the new economy. To be sure, for the most part they weren’t poor either. But they did have reason to feel judged by the market—and found wanting. The counties that supported Hillary Clinton represented an astonishing 64 percent of the GDP, while Trump counties accounted for a mere 36 percent. Aaron Terrazas, a senior economist at Zillow, found that the median home value in Clinton counties was $250,000, while the median in Trump counties was $154,000. When you adjust for inflation, Clinton counties enjoyed real-estate price appreciation of 27 percent from January 2000 to October 2016; Trump counties got only a 6 percent bump.
The residents of Trump country were also the losers in the war on human health. According to Shannon Monnat, an associate professor of sociology at Syracuse, the Rust Belt counties that put the anti-government-health-care candidate over the top were those that lost the most people in recent years to deaths of despair—those due to alcohol, drugs, and suicide. To make all of America as great as Trump country, you would have to torch about a quarter of total GDP, wipe a similar proportion of the nation’s housing stock into the sea, and lose a few years in life expectancy. There’s a reason why one of Trump’s favorite words is unfair. That’s the only word resentment wants to hear.
Even so, the distinguishing feature of Trump’s (white) voters wasn’t their income but their education, or lack thereof. Pew’s latest analysis indicates that Trump lost college-educated white voters by a humiliating 17 percent margin. But he got revenge with non-college-educated whites, whom he captured by a stomping 36 percent margin. According to an analysis by Nate Silver, the 50 most educated counties in the nation surged to Clinton: In 2012, Obama had won them by a mere 17 percentage points; Clinton took them by 26 points. The 50 least educated counties moved in the opposite direction; whereas Obama had lost them by 19 points, Clinton lost them by 31. Majority-minority counties split the same way: The more educated moved toward Clinton, and the less educated toward Trump.
The historian Richard Hofstadter drew attention to Anti-intellectualism in American Life in 1963; Susan Jacoby warned in 2008 about The Age of American Unreason; and Tom Nichols announced The Death of Expertise in 2017. In Trump, the age of unreason has at last found its hero. The “self-made man” is always the idol of those who aren’t quite making it. He is the sacred embodiment of the American dream, the guy who answers to nobody, the poor man’s idea of a rich man. It’s the educated phonies this group can’t stand. With his utter lack of policy knowledge and belligerent commitment to maintaining his ignorance, Trump is the perfect representative for a population whose idea of good governance is just to scramble the eggheads. When reason becomes the enemy of the common man, the common man becomes the enemy of reason.
Did I mention that the common man is white? That brings us to the other side of American-style resentment. You kick down, and then you close ranks around an imaginary tribe.
Additionally continued excerp https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/ from chapter 8 .... Did I mention that the common man is white? That brings us to the other side of American-style resentment. You kick down, and then you close ranks around an imaginary tribe. The problem, you say, is the moochers, the snakes, the handout queens; the solution is the flag and the religion of your (white) ancestors. According to a survey by the political scientist Brian Schaffner, Trump crushed it among voters who “strongly disagree” that “white people have advantages because of the color of their skin,” as well as among those who “strongly agree” that “women seek to gain power over men.” It’s worth adding that these responses measure not racism or sexism directly, but rather resentment. They’re good for picking out the kind of people who will vehemently insist that they are the least racist or sexist person you have ever met, even as they vote for a flagrant racist and an accused sexual predator.
No one is born resentful. As mass phenomena, racism, xenophobia, anti-intellectualism, narcissism, irrationalism, and all other variants of resentment are as expensive to produce as they are deadly to democratic politics. Only long hours of television programming, intelligently manipulated social-media feeds, and expensively sustained information bubbles can actualize the unhappy dispositions of humanity to the point where they may be fruitfully manipulated for political gain. Racism in particular is not just a legacy of the past, as many Americans would like to believe; it also must be constantly reinvented for the present. Mass incarceration, fearmongering, and segregation are not just the results of prejudice, but also the means of reproducing it.
The raging polarization of American political life is not the consequence of bad manners or a lack of mutual understanding. It is just the loud aftermath of escalating inequality. It could not have happened without the 0.1 percent (or, rather, an aggressive subset of its members). Wealth always preserves itself by dividing the opposition.
The first important thing to know about these consequences is the most obvious: Resentment is a solution to nothing. It isn’t a program of reform. It isn’t “populism.” It is an affliction of democracy, not an instance of it. The politics of resentment is a means of increasing inequality, not reducing it. Every policy change that has waded out of the Trump administration’s baffling morass of incompetence makes this clear. The new tax law; the executive actions on the environment and telecommunications, and on financial-services regulation; the judicial appointments of conservative ideologues—all will have the effect of keeping the 90 percent toiling in the foothills of merit for many years to come.
The second thing to know is that we are next in line for the chopping block. As the population of the resentful expands, the circle of joy near the top gets smaller. The people riding popular rage to glory eventually realize that we are less useful to them as servants of the economic machine than we are as model enemies of the people. The anti-blue-state provisions of the recent tax law have miffed some members of the 9.9 percent, but they’re just a taste of the bad things that happen to people like us as the politics of resentment unfolds.
The past year provides ample confirmation of the third and most important consequence of the process: instability. Unreasonable people also tend to be ungovernable. I won’t belabor the point. Just try doing a frequency search on the phrase constitutional crisis over the past five years. That’s the thing about the Gatsby Curve. You think it’s locking all of your gains in place. But the crystallization process actually has the effect of making the whole system more brittle. If you look again at history, you can get a sense of how the process usually ends.
Continued from above....chapter 8 https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/
The Choice (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/ )
I like to think that the ending of The Great Gatsby is too down-beat. Even if we are doomed to row our boats ceaselessly back into the past, how do we know which part of the past that will be?
History shows us a number of aristocracies that have made good choices. The 9.9 percenters of ancient Athens held off the dead tide of the Gatsby Curve for a time, even if democracy wasn’t quite the right word for their system of government. America’s first generation of revolutionaries was mostly 9.9 percenters, and yet they turned their backs on the man at the very top in order to create a government of, by, and for the people. The best revolutions do not start at the bottom; they are the work of the upper-middle class.
These exceptions are rare, to be sure, and yet they are the story of the modern world. In total population, average life expectancy, material wealth, artistic expression, rates of violence, and almost every other measure that matters for the quality of human life, the modern world is a dramatically different place than anything that came before. Historians offer many complicated explanations for this happy turn in human events—the steam engine, microbes, the weather—but a simple answer precedes them all: equality. The history of the modern world is the unfolding of the idea at the vital center of the American Revolution.
The defining challenge of our time is to renew the promise of American democracy by reversing the calcifying effects of accelerating inequality. As long as inequality rules, reason will be absent from our politics; without reason, none of our other issues can be solved. It’s a world-historical problem. But the solutions that have been put forward so far are, for the most part, shoebox in size.
Well-meaning meritocrats have proposed new and better tests for admitting people into their jewel-encrusted classrooms. Fine—but we aren’t going to beat back the Gatsby Curve by tweaking the formulas for excluding people from fancy universities. Policy wonks have taken aim at the more-egregious tax-code handouts, such as the mortgage-interest deduction and college-savings plans. Good—and then what? Conservatives continue to recycle the characterological solutions, like celebrating traditional marriage or bringing back that old-time religion. Sure—reforging familial and community bonds is a worthy goal. But talking up those virtues won’t save any families from the withering pressures of a rigged economy. Meanwhile, coffee-shop radicals say they want a revolution. They don’t seem to appreciate that the only simple solutions are the incredibly violent and destructive ones.
The American idea has always been a guide star, not a policy program, much less a reality. The rights of human beings never have been and never could be permanently established in a handful of phrases or old declarations. They are always rushing to catch up to the world that we inhabit. In our world, now, we need to understand that access to the means of sustaining good health, the opportunity to learn from the wisdom accumulated in our culture, and the expectation that one may do so in a decent home and neighborhood are not privileges to be reserved for the few who have learned to game the system. They are rights that follow from the same source as those that an earlier generation called life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
RELATED STORIES
The Masthead Discusses a “New American Aristocracy” The Secret Shame of Middle-Class Americans Images of a New American Aristocracy Rich People Are Great at Spending Money to Make Their Kids Rich, Too Can the Middle Class Be Saved? Yes, the kind of change that really matters is going to require action from the federal government. That which creates monopoly power can also destroy it; that which allows money into politics can also take it out; that which has transferred power from labor to capital can transfer it back. Change also needs to happen at the state and local levels. How else are we going to open up our neighborhoods and restore the public character of education?
It’s going to take something from each of us, too, and perhaps especially from those who happen to be the momentary winners of this cycle in the game. We need to peel our eyes away from the mirror of our own success and think about what we can do in our everyday lives for the people who aren’t our neighbors. We should be fighting for opportunities for other people’s children as if the future of our own children depended on it. It probably does. Chapter 10:
“As long as inequality rules, reason will be absent from our politics; without reason, none of our other issues can be solved. ”
This is the dilemma of our years of programming, that” our American system “ of “democracy in the present form” and unhindered naked capitalism without safeguards for humanity, is the best possible scenario
Blow your Mind....Modern Money Theory:
Here is a simple lay out of this concept: The US government really can have as much money it writes into law.
https://citizensmedia.tv/2018/07/03/grahamelwoodtranscript/
So the argument should just be, because we create our own currency, we could just write a check for 80 billion dollars and everybody has Medicare for All. We can just give that to people. We don’t need to take it from somewhere else. We don’t need to balance any budgets. Separate from that, we should reduce military spending just because it’s immoral and it kills people and ruins lives
WTF? .... MMT, modern money, shows us why we can actually get all the things that we, all progressives, preach about. It shows us that we’re actually really messing up how we preach about it and we’re sabotaging ourselves.....
https://citizensmedia.tv/2018/07/03/grahamelwoodtranscript/
.....But the even bigger travesty is that the American people have been tricked into thinking that we only have enough money for one or the other. That we have to choose. And that we spend most of our time analyzing and justifying and researching why we should be able to afford this, when the United States can easily afford to give us all of it.
They can keep their endless war, they can keep – I mean temporarily, this is not a good thing, but – it shouldn’t be a prerequisite to end endless war and to reduce the military (because it’s ridiculous) a
Money - IS - FICTION
You are absolutely correct when you say that this country can afford it!
"IT" - being affordable housing for all or complete coverage health care for all or totally clean power production infrastructure or a completely clean transportation system, for personal use as well as commercial and mass transit use or for totally clean operating/recycling industries....and so on and so on.....................
What stops all of these things are the WRONG people put in office (wrong people put in charge).
Because? ... They want to keep us distracted and divided.
J: Those two sides are not exactly what you think. Those two sides are the powerful and the powerless. It’s not, you know, black and white people, separating them with racism or anything like that. But go on.
G: Sure it is a class war. It’s the one-percenters versus everybody else. The tactics that the one-percenters use to keep the 99% divided is race and red state, blue state and whatever else they can find.
Could our youth through Supreme Court challenge government to protect the earth for posterity https://thinkprogress.org/supreme-court-landmark-climate-lawsuit-against-trump-administration-can-go-forward-97f20d2f4696/
Check out this article from USA TODAY:
Trump should revive the wealth tax he called for in 1999. America needs it more than ever.
https://usat.ly/2M8I7vC
Was a much better proposal for the common man, than what was delivered https://thinkprogress.org/ceos-using-share-buybacks-enrich-themselves-worker-wages-stagnant-faa627afa0f7/
Remedy: how might we equitably reduce inequality and restore reason, so system is less unfair? Many adjustments, tax stock gains income equitably, raise social security caps on high income, living wage, Medicare for all, guaranteed basic income $600, right to a dwelling space, a right to employment (cleaning or farmers needed I heard) that pays minimum wage, $15 an hour. Have Congressional Budget Office study feasibility, meanwhile Run on this platform, I propose. . Also don’t neglect secure boarder, no early release on bail of felon accused ileagles, and tough on crime, including especially “overzealous law enforcement providers, and violent crime.
Also some ideas here could be applicable http://www.cusdi.org/summary_paper.pdf
A single-payer Medicare for All system would reduce the amount the U.S. spends on health care by more than $2 trillion, a Koch brothers-funded study released Monday found.
https://thinkprogress.org/mercatis-medicare-for-all-study-0a8681353316/
Koch-backed study finds ‘Medicare for All’ would save U.S. trillions An estimated cost of $32.6 trillion over 10 years is less than the US would spend over the next 10 years under the current system
Why More White Americans Are Opposing Government Welfare
we tend to place selves self identified tribes and clans, which precludes us from making rationale decisions because of our fears “others are surpassing you The way that we understood this is that those perceptions [that] whites' income advantage were declining were perceived as a threat to white status and this status threat increased their feelings of resentment of minorities.“. ....https://www.npr.org/616684259
survey data, we show that white racial resentment rose beginning in 2008, and we argue that this was likely due to, again, this perceived threat to whites' racial status caused by a sort of confluence of Barack Obama being elected the first non-white president, and also the beginning of the Great Recession. So, you know, Obama's election was an event with huge symbolic significance for racial relations, like people were talking at the time that we'd entered this [so-called] post-racial era.
So for many people, we believe that they perceived this as a sign, that this is a sign of ... relative political power decline for whites at a moment of economic recession. [It] created this sense of racial threat that led to heightened racial resentment and heightened opposition to welfare among whites, even during this time of economic crisis.
On more of the opposite speak of the totally corrupted Drumpf, his family, his administration, his appointees, his GOP in office support.
See: https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1021974365150371841
Numbers how many voted or not ....How many Americans Actually Support Trump
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/26/politics/actual-trump-support/
20 percent of Trumpers thought freeing slaves a bad idea ? http://time.com/4236640/donald-trump-racist-supporters/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social-share-article&utm_content=20180923
We need accordding to this author, voting reforms. Make voting day a national holiday, IMO. Expand voting, and democratic access, with back up paper ballots, to safeguard our democracy and freedoms, if any remain, they would be important to protect https://usat.ly/2MgnEs5https://usat.ly/2MgnEs5
Another Civil Rights Movement needed? It is not just Russian trying to hack our democracy. Look in mirror GOP https://thinkprogress.org/georgia-election-board-plots-jim-crow-like-assault-on-black-voting-cf7c30ac7809/
“Why Are Our Pockets Only Empty For Health Care and Education” Alexandria Ocasio Cortez poignantly promotes the causes Americans would like to prioritize.
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-why-are-our-pockets-only-empty-for-health-care-and-education/
Hey! No one gives s fuck. Let’s “stal” all the money from USA! It’s legal now! It’s the law, only for big banks.
... New Trump Rule Would Give $2.5 Billion Tax Cut to Big Banks ....
.
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/new-trump-rule-would-give-2-5-billion-tax-cut-to-big-banks/
Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin just quietly copied & pasted bank lobbyists’ talking points into an IRS rule, thereby handing bankers a new $2.5 billion tax cut https://t.co/NEgSJJhn2h
the direction of bank lobbyists, the Trump administration’s new rule asserts that “‘financial services’ don’t include banking,” thus allowing “hundreds of banks operating as S corporations—as well as their owners—[to] claim the tax cut,” Sirota writes.
Focus on one issue, a month on 1 issue, may be a way to make inroads on the financiers of special interests that have legislators in pocket and tie up democracy, with undue influence, and contradict will of people. NRA facing financial problems. https://thinkprogress.org/the-nra-plays-the-victim-claims-its-nearly-broke-8cd4552c38b3/
Trump Cult ...
...They have discovered a way to escape Jeffersonian self-doubt. They play god themselves, crusader’s for their cult. Out of frustration, desperation and/or ignorance, they have escaped into a fantasy that about, politics and morality they are infallible, invincible and unassailable, godlike, on God’s side, on Trump’s side.
To pretend that it’s left vs. right enables the cult. That’s what it would have us believe. It’s how they keep their cult members enthralled. Every time we fight for leftist causes, it bolsters their sense that their cultish mission is imperative
https://www.alternet.org/isnt-culture-war-patriotic-defense-against-all-cults
However even Koch brothers having doubts voiced of the Trump cult https://www.alternet.org/koch-brothers-turn-trump-during-annual-donor-conference-officials-warn-white-house-causing-long-term recently
The Cult enables “the permanent lie” https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-permanent-lie-our-deadliest-threat/
. The most ominous danger we face comes from the marginalization and destruction of institutions, including the courts, academia, legislative bodies, cultural organizations and the press, that once ensured that civil discourse was rooted in reality and fact, helped us distinguish lies from truth and facilitated justice.
Donald Trump and today’s Republican Party represent the last stage in the emergence of corporate totalitarianism. Pillage and oppression are justified by the permanent lie
Dump TRUMP! No Responsibility to protect our Public Lands, new federal policy from president Dump and his GOP oligarchs
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-administration-to-stop-collecting-money-from-companies-that-damage-public-lands-1d882c7d473a/
.....The Department of the Interior’s Bureau of Land Management (BLM) will no longer require oil and gas companies, land developers, and other companies to pay into government funds set up to offset damage they do to natural resources and wildlife habitats when operating on public lands.
Prior to the Trump administration’s change in policy, the BLM mandated that companies offset the impacts of their activities on public lands through programs such as funding the restoration and protection of wetlands and other habitats. The off-site “compensatory mitigation” practice will now be voluntary.
The new policy, outlined in a BLM instruction memo issued Tuesday, states that “in no circumstance may BLM agree to accept a monetary contribution for the implementation of compensatory mitigation.” Under limited circumstances, the BLM said it will consider voluntary proposals for compensatory mitigation.
The BLM memo “is part of a wave of deregulation that is aimed at removing requirements to care for the land and fast-tracking industrial and corporate exploitation of public lands and resources,” Erik Molvar, executive director of the Western Watersheds Project, told ThinkProgress.
Ex-Republican Operative Steve Schmidt: 'The Party of Trump Must Be Obliterated. Annihilated. Destroyed
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/steve-schmidt-party-of-trump-obliterated-w521978 Under Trump, he wrote, the party had become "corrupt, indecent, and immoral." With the exception of a select few, the GOP was "filled with feckless cowards who disgrace and dishonor the legacies of the party's greatest leaders." He pointed to the Trump administration's family separation policy and use of detention centers for young immigrant children – "internment camps for babies" – and the refusal of House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to repudiate the president.
In the days since, Schmidt's former party brethren appear to have confirmed his prognosis. First, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee tweeted an image of five heavily tattooed Hispanic-looking men – ostensibly gang members – with the message: "Nancy Pelosi introduces her campaign committee for the take back of the House." Huckabee's tweet was roundly criticized as bigoted and xenophobic. (He stiff-armed these accusations.) On Sunday, David Bossie, a veteran conservative activist who was Trump's deputy campaign manager in 2016, told a black panelist on Fox News that he was "out of his cotton-picking mind." (Bossie later apologized.) These weren't the dog whistles of yore; this was plain-as-day bigotry and racism
...”
They are the party for more dark money. What have you done for me lately GOP?
WASHINGTON – Montana's Democratic Gov. Steve Bullock on Tuesday said he is suing the Trump administration over its decision to stop collecting information about donors to politically active nonprofit groups.
Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin last week announced that certain tax-exempt organizations, ranging from trade associations to the National Rifle Association, would no longer have to include donors' names and addresses on the annual tax returns they file with the IRS.
Additionally, "Freedom of thought and speech on the American campus are under attack today," Jeff Sessions admits today, in response to right wing muggles chanting “lock her up” USA Today, July Check out this article from USA TODAY:
Attorney General Jeff Sessions' speech to high schoolers interrupted by 'lock her up' chant
Check out this article from USA TODAY:
Attorney General Jeff Sessions' speech to high schoolers interrupted by 'lock her up' chant
https://usat.ly/2uSIrZd
Yes, even Facebook is part of your mind con troll ed nihilistic lives
Facebook is Pro-neoliberalism. https://www.salon.com/2018/07/24/under-facebooks-new-algorithm-conservative-meme-pages-are-outperforming-all-political-news-pages_partner/
Facebook allows misinformation, and conspiracy theories on school shooting Sandy Hook. This is where Americans shop for information. https://thinkprogress.org/sandy-hook-parents-criticize-facebook-mark-zuckerberg-28b0fc5d9202/
.....The parents of 6-year-old Noah Pozner, who was killed in the December 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary shooting, penned an open letter in The Guardian Wednesday condemning Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg for failing to effectively stop those spreading hoaxes and conspiracies on the social media platform.
The couple detailed how they were forced to live in hiding after “conspiracy groups and anti-government provocateurs” began spreading misinformation about their son’s death spread on Facebook. The couple wrote that Facebook subsequently chose to protect those claims — despite the fact that they were false — rather than deleting the sensitive material.
So openly caugt, but not reported in mainstream media....Here is should-be unAmerican activity that was conducted by foreigners for Gulible Obtuse Ratbrained partners, again https://www.truthdig.com/articles/american-conservatives-tied-to-pro-trump-trolls-in-macedonia/
It didn't take Trump for me to realize the GOP must die.
Go Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and how come it didn't take Hellary Rotten Clinton; Blow Job Bill
and Bollocks Obomber, for U to "realize" that GOP-lite ''must die'' too?! Watch this Mr.Partisan:
'Til U face & accept just how RW Dems are,U'll stay in the dark. Real Eyes; Realize; Real Lies!
fiat lux ...
you should see someone about your Hillary obsession...
Real eyes; realize; real lies! The "$Hillary obsession" is all yours and quite frankly - always has been!!
U'd sooner kiss HRC's fat arse, then get your fatter head .. out of your own!!! And here's the evidence:
temet nosce!
I know that you are so grateful to Donald trump for saving you from Hillary, IO know how much you LOVE Donald Trump, but really you should MoveOn...
It must depend on what side of the bed U get out on each morning - after your drunken nights before, as
on one day U will accuse posters of being for tRUMP and on next for the US Greens! So frf, d'U get how
bi-polar/schizoid that is?!! PLEASE extract your DNC luvin' RW head, from outta your RW "centrist" A$$
& realize that real eyes see real lies - from Pro-Status Quo; Corporate Duopoly adDICKts! Also consider
http://occupywallst.org/forum/still-the-same/#comment-1076221 &
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-get-40-percent-of-country-to-appreciate-a-c/#comment-1076146
fiat lux ...
Life must really suck for you Shadz, what with all the radicals joining the Democratic Party to fight Trump.
''139 House Democrats Join GOP to Approve $717 Billion in Military Spending'' by Jake Johnson:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/07/26/139-house-democrats-join-gop-approve-717-billion-military-spending
also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kotO-kAFZ70 (with Chris Hedges and Kshama Sawant)
& - https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/08/04/denouncing-centrist-corporate-democrats-cynthia-nixon-declares-time-fight
What does "suck" - is the fact that DLC/DNC/Dem Establishment right-wingers are so fkn RW and blind!
U however serve the same purpose here that TrashyManque' did & does, so I still thank U for doing that.
Now read & reflect on the contents of this useful link ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agon &
consider this https://twitter.com/profwolff/status/1027611215588192256 by Prof. R. D. Wolff
ad iudicium ...
That is a lot of money! Can’t wait till next year we can also fund Space Force https://www.truthdig.com/articles/pence-outlines-plan-for-new-space-force-by-2020/
“a domain that was once peaceful and uncontested that has now become crowded and adversarial.
“Now the time has come to write the next great chapter in the history of our armed forces, to prepare for the next battlefield where America’s best and bravest will be called to deter and defeat a new generation of threats to our people, to our nation,” said Pence. “The time has come to establish the United States Space Force.”
Trump marked Pence’s announcement with a tweet: “Space Force all the way!””
Defense Secretary Jim Mattis has endorsed steps to reorganize the military’s space warfighting forces and create a new command, but has previously opposed launching a pricey, new service. A new branch of the military would require layers of bureaucracy, military and civilian leaders, uniforms, equipment and an expansive support structure
U$A's Military Expenditure is TOTALLY out of control & Americans need to wake up to the truth that they do NOT live in even a semblance of a ''Democracy'' .. as a Highly Militarized Police State, owned by the Military Industrial Banker Complex is now the reality. Your excellent link deserves wider readership, as it shows how the Military Trumps ALL other considerations in the US. I repeat it here ...
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/pence-outlines-plan-for-new-space-force-by-2020/ meanwhile
https://truthout.org/articles/alec-is-pushing-a-new-slate-of-viciously-anti-worker-pro-corporate-laws/ & ...
http://wallstreetonparade.com/2018/08/financial-health-of-u-s-consumer-will-determine-severity-of-the-next-recession/
radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...
Green Party ego whores helped elect another Republican in Ohio, did you hear?
Perhaps U can provide details of Ohio - or are U actually still fixated on the 2000 Election?
Ohio was & is a state of major electoral skullduggery & btw do U remember 2004 & Kerry?
Furthermore - do U actually know how the Electoral College works in U$A? Also consider:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/still-the-same/#comment-1076326 &
this https://twitter.com/BenSwann_/status/1030114179888369667
multum in parvo ...
In NYC, Go VOTE Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez!
CHECK YOUR NY POLLING LOCATION: http://nyc.pollsitelocator.com/search & see:
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/25/ahead-tuesday-primary-progressive-candidates-vow-bust-big-money-politics-new-york & also perhaps try to consider this..
https://www.vogue.com/article/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-interview-primary-election &...
https://readsludge.com/2018/06/23/facing-progressive-challenger-crowley-embraces-corporate-cash/ + this..
https://www.wsj.com/articles/political-newcomer-shakes-up-congressional-primary-in-new-york-1529848800
per ardua ad astra ...
Young Democrats open to Socialism.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-win-and-the-energy-on-the-left.html
''America’s New Revolutionaries show how The Left can win'', byGeorge Monbiot:
''The little-known history of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s victory in a New York primary hints at the coming transformation.''
Re.your xcllt link, see my reply here: http://occupywallst.org/article/lehman-brothers/#comment-1075826
dum spiro, spero ...
As Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeats GOPlite/Corp.Dem behemoth Joe Crowley - in the race for NY14 House seat .. the real point to take away is NOT some Corp./DNC sanctioned crappy "Blue Wave" - of Corporation friendly Dem. Party robots .. but an actual movement OF The 99%; BY The 99%; FOR the 99%! NB:
https://twitter.com/Shadz66Shadz6t6/status/1011818384634404864 & more importantly NB:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/26/democrats-primaries-upset-joe-crowley-alexandria-osacio-cortez
Ocasio-Cortez has a pretty incredible explanation of Socialism ... "There is no other force, there is no other party, there is no other real ideology out there right now that is asserting the minimum elements necessary to lead a dignified American life." from ...
veritas vos liberabit ...
[Removed]
Shadz are you finally interested in doing something besides electing the GOP? That is good news! Yes I agree people should get involved in the primaries and pick good people, BTW she won, Big Time!
Ocasio-Cortez on Socialism .. "There is no other force, there is no other party, there is no other real ideology out there right now that is asserting the minimum elements necessary to lead a dignified American life."
So, re. your GOP-lite idiocy (aka Corp.Dem/DLC addiction) ... are U 'frf' going to do anything but kiss
Corporate DNC/HRC arse - even as U hide behind a real Berniecrat, OWS, Democratic Socialist like
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? U are closer to GOP than I'll ever be, but Zero-Sum Game Binary has U!
Have U dealt with this http://occupywallst.org/forum/crime-and-punishment/#comment-1075711 yet?
Or have U even heard her speak? Do try to listen up here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5uOa7NGLJE
& https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuoKLLLpiuE
Also https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/06/there-is-still-only-one-clear-way-to-get-rid-of-trump
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-and-the-legacy-of-the-bernie-sanders-movement
and finally https://www.democracynow.org/2018/6/27/28_year_old_socialist_alexandria_ocasio
Will U take this to your Corp.Dem flunkies in Arizona and how are U "Killing GOP" there or anywhere?
The GOP will NOT be defeated by aping it! GOPlite does NOT cut it & so ... Alex O-C shows the way!
ad iudicium ...
Democratic Socialist Ocasio Victory in NY.
A 28-year-old Democratic Socialist just ousted a powerful, 10-term congressman in New York
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-joe-crowley-new-york-14-primary/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44625617
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/26/democrats-primaries-upset-joe-crowley-alexandria-osacio-cortez
The future.
Alex Ocasio-Cortez was a Bernie campaign local organizer. She knows it isn't difficult to be honest with people, IF U are honest with yourself! She knows that The 1% OF a 1% - are calling the shots in U$A!!
She knows that the advantage of telling the truth is that she will never have to remember what it is that she is supposed to say!!! And that it's all here already IF people really want a change they can believe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs5fmEc5QIY&feature=youtu.be & fyi, see ...
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/6/27/28_year_old_socialist_alexandria_ocasio +
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-and-the-legacy-of-the-bernie-sanders-movement
Thanx for the links. U are right. A O-C is ''The Future''! OWS was/is the wind behind Bernie. Solidarity wishes to U & yours. OWS' & The 99%'s struggle goes on. Both the GOP & GOP-lite can count on it!
dum spiro, spero ...
Well said. Politicians have been constructing a new reality for so long I think even Frontline has lost track of which word salad saga leads where and what begets what.
''Frontline" has had its moments but I get your point. Thanx and also fyi - consider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsM1WrRdGi0 (''Black Money'')
https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-climate-doubt/ ("Climate of Doubt'')
https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-poor-kids/ (''Poor Kids" 2012' + still apt)
https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-money-power-and-wall-street-part-one/
https://www.pbs.org/video/frontline-money-power-and-wall-street-part-two/
Re. Alexandria O-C see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fptoDskNU9w
e tenebris, lux?
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez talks poverty in the U.S. with Steven Colbert.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/29/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-talks-poverty-in-the-us-with-steven-colbert.html
With Democratic Socialism we can redistribute enough money to end suffering. And, yes, rich people can still be rich.
''In a moral, wealthy society, 'no person in America should be too poor to live''' - from ^your link^.
Here are the issues that affect USA's 99%: https://berniesanders.com/issues/ & their rational solutions.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez comes out of the Democratic Socialists of America: https://www.dsausa.org/
per aspera ad astra ...
40% of Americans don't have $400 for an emergency.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/22/pf/emergency-expenses-household-finances/index.html
And, the article says:
"More concerning are the 25% of Americans with no retirement savings whatsoever, according to the report."
We need Democratic Socialism more than ever!
“Nearly 70 percent of Americans don’t have $1,000 in the bank for an emergency ... UBI could be an incredible benefit for people who are working and are having a tough time making ends meet or putting food on the table at the end of the month.” - from ...
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/16/chicago-universal-basic-income-ubi/
also see: https://twitter.com/philosophrob/status/1021089541262925825
fiat justitia ...
“Not having enough money to make ends meet is not the same thing as living beyond your means – which implies you have a choice, when too many people do not.”
Brits are facing the same problems as Americans.
"Household debt in UK 'worse than at any time on record'
British household finances among most indebted in major western countries, ONS says"
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/26/household-debt-in-uk-worse-than-at-any-time-on-record
It's time for we the people to quit blaming and shaming ourselves for our poor economic condition. It's not our fault wages have declined, that pensions and health benefits aren't offered anymore or that "employment at will" has taken over the land. It's not our fault that corporations are treated as people and unions have been demolished.
We need to fight back and demand a living wage, healthcare for all, retirement income, affordable housing and education and a transportation infrastructure so that we can fulfill our human right of living in dignity and raising a family if we so choose.
Individuals; couples; families; self-employed; sole traders; small businesses; medium sized enterprises; large companies; multinational corporations AND ENTIRE COUNTRIES ... are all in fkn debt! To who?!! For how long & at what rate of (usurious?) interest & has anyone ever heard of the term .. JUBILLEE?!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury also note:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(biblical)
radix omnium malorum est cupiditas!
Land redistribution in South Africa.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-44278164
"This could be a turning point for South Africa. I think politically this is a moment of enormous opportunity," said Prof Ruth Hall, a leading expert on land reform, and prominent critic of the government's recent handling of the issue.
"For 20 years the state had a mandate for land reform and failed to do so. [President Jacob] Zuma rolled back the land reform programme. Almost no land was transferred in recent years. Now business and government are coming together. There's actually quite a lot of goodwill."
Prof Hall argues that land expropriation - with or without compensation - is already an option under the existing constitution, and that those pushing a constitutional amendment are doing so for political reasons."
https://www.news24.com/Analysis/the-land-debate-will-of-the-people-or-time-to-panic-20180803
This is interesting stuff. It's much argued that it is simply land from white people being given to black people but it's more than that. It's correcting colonial power grabs and it's economic at it's base level, and economic divides in South Africa, are unfortunately, racial for the most part.
It begs the question of how long unsustainable chasms in wealth distribution will be tolerated by the masses of people and when and what they will do about it when the unsustainability reaches such a level that really, revolution happens.
This has happened throughout history. So, peaceful redistribution is preferred and something groups like Occupy have been calling for for a long time.
In South Africa it's over land at the moment, but long term it's over much more than just land.
In the West it's debt, low wages, no pensions, unequal health care, unaffordable education, etc. At what point do the masses say enough?
This is SUCH an important matter & it has very deep parallels in U$A. Sadly I don't have the time to fully engage with your links. I'll come back to this at a later date tho'. In the interim, as U'll get the connection, I link to this prior reply:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/crime-and-punishment/#comment-1076330 & also fyi, consider:
https://truthout.org/articles/alec-is-pushing-a-new-slate-of-viciously-anti-worker-pro-corporate-laws/
respice; adspice; prospice ...
ALEC, enemy of the 99%, is proposing legislation that is deleterious for Americans.
From your link:
"When the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) convened its 45th annual meeting of legislators and corporate lobbyists at the swank Hilton New Orleans Riverside hotel on August 8, it served up a veritable banquet of union-busting, gerrymandering, pro-fossil fuel, and school privatization proposals for lawmakers to take back home."
1 Right to Gerrymander Resolution
With citizens turning to the courts and ballot box in a growing number of states to clamp down on hyper-partisan “gerrymandering” schemes, ALEC members will instead be voting on a resolution to defend the right of politicians to keep hand-picking their voters."
2 Diminishing right to bargain collectively
"Under the proposed measure, unions would have to get the votes of a majority of all members–not just those showing up to vote–in order to retain their right to represent workers in a bargaining unit."
3 Keeping Down Pay and Benefits in the Gig Economy
ALEC will also be considering a “Uniform Worker Classification Act” that promotes short-term contracts and freelance work over permanent jobs. The resolution focuses on “uniform standards for determining who is an employee and who is an independent contractor," but is designed to establish a very broad definition of independent contractor that lets employers off the hook for the rights and benefits enjoyed by traditional employees and prevents union organizing. Misclassifying workers is a classic corporate strategy for short-shrifting employees and has been the subject of much litigation.
4 Protecting Fossil Fuel Industry With Bills Undermining Electric Cars, Fuel Economy Standards
What a bunch of sick psychopaths. These proposals simply tear away at the fabric of our society and entrench the masses of people in poverty, debt and and atomized from each other as they scrape to get by. Not to mention the health of Mother Earth.
ALEC and The Powell Memo are very closely linked. NB:
Thanx for an extensive excerpt. It was well worth reading.
multum in parvo ...
Ouch, those a bad stats!
Americans need to start thinking about their neighbors and stop being such individualists.
She's a maniac! Yes, yes, yes!!!
Spit out coporalite. It's "inflammable."
"I'll have what she's having." Me, too.
"Es gibt auch Meisterstalag 13." Jawohl, Herr Kommandant!
"What's that big black disc?" We are Millennials... Not Stupids.
So what are U actually talking about grapes?!
This is really the only video that matters here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dyVxMmmMZE - re. A O-C and see this forum reply too:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-get-40-percent-of-country-to-appreciate-a-c/#comment-1075774
fiat lux ...
"BOTH parties are owned & controlled by People Before Profit Psychos!"
I have no problem with the "People Before Profit Psychos!"
The great empires surrounding Poland divided it up amongst themselves in the Nineteenth Century. Poland was reunified, later repartitioned, and reconstituted in the Twentieth Century in war after war. Prussia's Königsberg is now Russia's Kaliningrad. Its free port of Danzig is now Poland's Gdansk. DDR came under the thumb of the USSR. It's no accident that DDR's national anthem had better drum the idea of not recovering old Prussia subliminally into DDR youth's minds. Russia doesn't want Germany to try to recover Kaliningrad where Russia under the USSR regime had committed large-scale ethnic cleansing of the German-speaking population there. As Russia had annexed Crimea ( if Ukraine had foresight, it should have ethnically cleansed Crimea of its Russian-speaking population as Russia had done to Königsberg's German-speaking population,) Germany should annex Gdansk and Kaliningrad and rename them as Danzig and Königsberg, respectively. I saw old maps marking them so. We need to ethnic-cleanse Poland and Russia to recover Preussen. War will be the never-ending story. Nazi soldiers said of their dreams of owning farms on the fertile soil of Ukraine and garnishing the oil of the Caucasus and Caspian Sea for the Wehrmacht's conquest of the German-speaking world. The captured Slavs could work for the Aryan master race's farms as slaves, as they had been aptly named. Hmm, the U.S. should ethnically cleanse our Southwest of its Spanish-speaking population to head off a potential Donbass/Luhansk East-Ukraine warring situation. The captured Hispanics can work on Mitt Romney's interstate dog pound.
I am actually talking about this matter of oscillating, disappearing, reappearing, etc. of the various states' dominions. In many bloody wars, Berlin has overrun others and been overrun itself a few times. The matter of who owes whom and what due to the past wars is rather fuzzy depending on the time periods each state chooses. Many countries still cannot get over this fixation and mentally dwell in the last century or even earlier, with the Middle-East being stuck at a few millennia ago due to its being the fountainhead of monotheistic religions with BOTH superiority and inferiority complexes running rampant.
I have claims for my ancestral properties which had been confiscated, declared "abandoned," or usurped, occupied, sold to vultures by governments ( why did I have to cut my milk teeth on soot and eat the sweet honey-glazed cracker { to be honest, I enjoyed this treat but you can guess correctly that my sweet tooth hurt me from my "pursuit of happiness"--in excess without the prophylactics of brushing teeth clean after sweets, pleasure led to pain but I didn't know about oral bacteria, their oxidation of carbohydrates to carbonic acid which dissolves calcium in teeth making them holey and painful at every bite of food chewed; my epiphany much later in life was that none of that pain was necessary if I had just kept my teeth low in bacterial count and devoid of sweets by brushing, rinsing after eating carbohydrates, and disinfecting a few times a week; if I worship my mouth in "the people's temple" after eating carbohydrates, "I can have it all"--there is karma but a bit of Shiva's eternal flame of creation and destruction is within me as in that redwood tree so I am a lord of karma by my birthright, livingright, and deathright } trade-recycled from a neighborhood garbage dump, huh? ) but I am not going to raise an army to get them back. In turn, I hope that the Original Americans don't show up on my doorsteps and kick me out of their ancestral properties that had been stolen by the laws ( and guns, of course, what else do you think is actually backing up the laws? )
It's great never to forget so that we can avoid repeating the past catastrophes but to forgive, despite that memory, is Divine: 》Auferstanden aus Ruinen/ Und der Zukunft zu gewandt,/《
The DDR secret police, die Staatssicherheit, was notoriously terrible in a Biblical prophetic manner turning fathers against sons, sons against fathers, mothers against daughters, daughters against mothers, neighbors against neighbors, and everyone against everyone else all in the name of "national security" but how sweet it had sounded in DDR's national anthem: 》Wenn wir brüderlich uns einen,/ Schlagen wir des Volkes Feind./《 It represents the awful broken dream of Socialism as handmaidened by Totalitarianism, deserving our youth's shedding of tears.
Capitalism as handmaidened by Totalitarianism is NO better. There's hope though from a broken umbrella's steel ribs that we the neighborhood kids had found in a neighborhood garbage dump. God put His rainbow in the sky after Noah's Flood as a token of His Covenant with us and all living ( Note this! God is "the Breath of Life," the running and not dead operating system software of the Universe ) creatures below. It's an inspiration writ large for all generations to see and for all time that God is an ROYGBIVX ( LGBTQAIX in NSA-encrypted Gibberish ) archer whom we should emulate.
As a kid playing in a neighborhood garbage dump, I tried to emulate the NSA, which got the American Shogun fired, to grab hold of the shiny key to almighty power wrapped within a sharp steel strip removed from a can of SPAM that had been opened with the key. As I was unwinding the steel strip, it slipped and cut my finger to the bone. Blood spewed out. While crying out loudly, I ran home fast to my Mom. She bent my finger, wrapped it tightly in a piece of cloth, and took me to the emergency room. I experienced efficient and effective national healthcare firsthand. I did have a second hand but my first hand was painful enough! The emergency room was almost devoid of patients so my finger was quickly disinfected and stitched up. It didn't take three hours! No one asked me whether I was fucking with that mysterious woman, "Aetna," when my finger slipped. Maybe it was due to my young age so it didn't flash across their minds that a preschooler could be fucking but they could conceivably have asked me, "did you have SPAM?" instead of "Aetna." Thus ended my kiddy quest for absolute power as the dictator of a dead-turkey-sandwich ant farm. Blood atoned for Sin.
Well, in order to make myself feel better, I could still go back to the garbage dump, whip out my firehose, and golden-flood the red and black ants fighting each other over that crumb of dead-turkey-sandwich. As I exercised my bit of the power of Shiva's hair with the Golden Flood making all of the ants scurry for higher grounds, I said unto myself, "I am become Flood, the Destroyer of Strife!" Mx. Peacemaker was sent to Stockholm for my Syndrome award.
In Christianity, blood is an offering to God. To honor God, we the neighborhood children pinned the toxic toad, which we had caught from an open-sewer drainage ditch, onto a wooden board, propped the board up at one end of the dump, lined up in a queue, and shot at it in turn using our steel bows and arrows made from the ribs of the broken umbrella that didn't shield somebody from the Deluge pouring down from the firmament above. Toad bled and twitched. Its blood redeemed the Romulans who had built for the ants the eternal-until-the-Golden-Flood city of Antwarp. Hallelujah!
''America the Failed State'', by Chis Hedges:
When U say: ''I have no problem with the 'People Before Profit Psychos'!", U can consider me
diametrically opposed to that sentiment, as "Capitalism IS handmaidened by Totalitarianism''!!
As for rest of your screed .. "did you have SPAM?''!!! Re. the ''Socialism'' I advocate for, see ...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/in-defence-of-the-broad-church-of-socialism-from-t/
from which https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism by Albert Einstein
verum ex absurdo ...
You want "Profit Before People Psychos?" Really?
No, U twit, I did NOT say that: ''I have no problem with the 'People Before Profit Psychos'" .. I was just
quoting U, ffs!!! Maybe if U read wTf U yourself write, instead of writing obtuse & obscure screeds, it'd
help U & others to understand what it is .. that U are actually trying to say?! Reread the exchange abv.
ad iudicium ...
You mean truth like the Greens have no chance don't waste your vote. Or how about the truth that if you want to have an impact you should get involved in the Democratic primaries and nominate good people.
So still bleating about The US Greens, factsRfukt?!!! U pro status quo, conservative ass kissing tool!!
Fuck U and your Corp. GOP-lite, Dem fixations! So - guess what, fool? .. a) A O-C self-identifies with
''Democratic Socialists of America" .. and: b) Now guess whoTF again wants a POTUS run in 2020?!
Note .. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/27/17509604/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-democratic-socialist-of-america
& https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/could-hillary-clinton-take-on-donald-trump-again/ + see:
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-ignore-left-their-peril-midwesterners-aren-t-scared-socialism-ncna889741
& http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5931169/Talk-emerges-Hillary-Clinton-plotting-2020-comeback-prepping-Trump-rematch.html +
e tenebris, lux ...
So truth stops when it comes to your fucking Greens?
The TRUTH is voting for a Green is stupid as shit because it only helps elect the GOP but you don't give a shit about TRUTH!
At least Alex Ocasio-Cortez isn't a stupid shit like you, YOU are nothing but a shit Political hack pushing your Party at the cost of everything else!
Still trapped in Zero-Sum Game Binary b-s, frf?! Still wearing Al Gore's A$$ as a hat, factsRfukt?!! And
still making $H!T up, while failing to deal with the evidence provided that proves U wrong?!!! I'm NOT a
Green but it's "The TRUTH" that Stein's platform was closer to OWS' & Bernie's than ANY mainstream
Dem and it is clear that U want to claim Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a mainstream GOPlite Dem, but I
do agree that she "isn't a stupid shit like you" lol! I'm an Independent Internationalist Socialist, whereas
U .. are just another parochial conservative traditionalist for U$A's Dirty, Duplicitous, Duopoly Delusion!
Try to read: https://www.truthdig.com/articles/needed-now-a-real-and-radical-left/ by Paul Street
& .. http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-get-40-percent-of-country-to-appreciate-a-c/#comment-1075774 One minute I'm a tRUMPer, next I'm Green, lol! U Corp.Dem ass kissing loon! WTFU -
et temet nosce!
Still denying reality?
and electing the GOP...and why not?...after all, you LOVE Donald Trump!
The fact is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will be running as a Democrat, NOT a fucking Green because SHE is not stupid as shit, like YOU!
'DUOPOLY' is the "reality'' .. that U have been ''denying'' - for as long as your RW, reactionary arse has
been here! ALL your efforts are about inflating Corp. Dems, because U are in TOTAL denial about how
RW and Corp. co-opted & controlled the DNC & DEM Establishment are!! One minute U accuse me of
being a US Green and another minute, U think I "LOVE Donald Trump'' LOL!!! Consider the following...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/11/america-left-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-new-york-primary- by George Monbiot.
& see the problem here .. https://twitter.com/BernieSNewschan/status/1017570390221164544
& http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5931169/Talk-emerges-Hillary-Clinton-plotting-2020-comeback-prepping-Trump-rematch.html
Finally, do consider this: https://theintercept.com/2018/04/26/steny-hoyer-audio-levi-tillemann/
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has my full support in her struggle against the Corp.Dems ... but she should
beware the Corp. Bankers who detest her but own the Dems/DNC! Keep denying this reality, but know
that I'll be putting U right at every opportunity, as I will never support your attempts at Co-option here!!!
e tenebris, lux?
You want people to vote for small parties that can't win to give Trump a better chance at re-election?
I'm NOT surprised Trashy-Manqué that U too are a fan of U$A's Corporate Duopoly! Now, address this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-this-site-a-secret-front-for-wall-street/#comment-1075886 or this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/11/america-left-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-new-york-primary
So I'm guessing that U either don't know or care that both Dems & GOP were born as 3rd Party rebels?
multum in parvo!
No one should ever confuse you with anyone that gives a shit about anything other than your fucking political party. You are nothing but a political stooge pushing your Party's ego whores..
Your Bi-Polar Duopoly Disorder, just isn't going away any time soon - is it?
I told U before factsRfukt, neither am I a tRUMPer NOR am I a US Green!
In your Zero-Sum Game world - if I'm NOT a Dem; I must be GOP/Green!
Nope doofus but no matter how often I repeat it, U won't get what I mean!
verum ex absurdo!
I consider both Dems and GOP a bad choice, but I view Trump as a worse choice then the Dems. I don't consider them equivalent like you do.
You are confusing me with a person who gives a fk what U think, lol! That U'd defend U$A's Corporate Owned GOP/GOPlite charade - is NO surprise to me whatsoever!! Read, watch & digest the following:
"How to counter establishment politics'': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kotO-kAFZ70
and https://www.alternet.org/meet-economist-behind-one-percents-stealth-takeover-america ;
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-win-and-the-energy-on-the-left.html ;
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-and-the-legacy-of-the-bernie-sanders-movement &
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-ignore-left-their-peril-midwesterners-aren-t-scared-socialism-ncna889741
per aspera ad astra ...
Alex Ocasio-Cortez was recruited by the Justice Democrats did you know that? Do you remember me posting about them over 6 months ago? If you would remove your head from your ass and stop electing the GOP you too could become part of the revolution.
For any who want to do something other than elect the GOP, there is Justice Democrats.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/for-any-who-want-to-do-something-other-than-elect-/
Who did Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez beat? And how times does she mention "Justice Democrats" here..
Looks like she has to fight RW Corp.Dems / DNC, machine .. BEFORE she gets to beat the Repugnant!
U're the one wearing Hellary Rotten Clinton's well padded A$$ as a cowboy hat!! U Dem adickted loon!!!
Your Zero-Sum Game, Binary Fixation wants to ignore facts in favor of fantasy & fables of Dem integrity!
veritas vos liberabit ...
She will trying to beat a fucking Republican after running as and winning the Democratic Primary people who want to change this country are joining the Democratic Party in HUGE numbers to KILL the GOP!
U've absolutely N0THING to really say other than - "Vote Dems" have U?! Has voting Corp.Dems/DNC
"destroyed" the Corp.GOP to date?!! NO it fkn has NOT .. but U don't really care about that, so long as
U can claim to vote for the lesser of two evils, right?!!! Idiot ...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-get-40-percent-of-country-to-appreciate-a-c/#comment-1075993
Also try to see A O-C in her own words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dyVxMmmMZE
& "How to counter establishment politics'' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kotO-kAFZ70
multum in parvo ...
same thing I've been saying for seven years, KILL the GOP, you are hell bent on keeping them on life support in hope your fucking Green Party can crawl out the sewer where it belongs....
And your "Kill the GOP'' is to re achieved how exactly ... in a country with a DEEPLY PROGRAMMED
RW Reactionary rump, that is in love with its Stockholm Syndrome & suffers from severe Cognitive
Dissonance as well as Confirmation Bias?!!! Have U - ANYTHING, to say to the points made here..
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-get-40-percent-of-country-to-appreciate-a-c/#comment-1076143 ?!?!?!
BTW frf - didn't U once ask: http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-liberals-have-to-be-radicals/ ?!!
Don't be ''stupid as shit'' - WTFU & start looking for New Solutions to the old problems of DUOPOLY!
Are U a Centrist Dem frf? If so, U need to see https://www.thenation.com/article/debunking-centrism/
veritas vos liberabit!
and round and round we go, idiots like you that say we can change the world, but kill the GOP? oh no that's too hard....
So this "kill the GOP" .. "is to be achieved how exactly in a country with a ... DEEPLY PROGRAMMED
"RW Reactionary rump, that is in love with its Stockholm Syndrome & suffers from severe Cognitive
"Dissonance as well as Confirmation Bias?!!!'' All U really want is a One Party State for your Pseudo-
Liberal, GOPlite, Establishment A$$ Kissing, Corporate scum; whose idea of Pro-99% does NOT even
extend to Universal Healthcare!! U have NO vision outside Duopoly, U binary brained numbskull! + FYI
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/06/30/cynical-opposition-some-democrats-universal-health-care & also try to consider this link - IF U dare ...
http://www.wfmz.com/news/politics/behind-the-ballot-democratic-socialists-of-america/776576725
verum ex absurdo?
She ran because the Justice Democrats recruited her, the Justice Democrats are part of a huge revolution that is sweeping the nation, you should get involved.
Hillary who?
You should MoveOn.
Your ability to completely ignore reality rivals that of any Trump supporter.
Here's Alex O-C in her own words:
The "reality", is Corporate Duopoly!
She knows it; shame that U do not!
STOP kissing DNC ass & .. WTFU!
Here is the fkn problem with Dems:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/nancy-pelosi-dismisses-ascendent-left-after-democratic-socialist-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wins-primary
& https://splinternews.com/do-not-ask-nancy-pelosi-about-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-1827209798
multum in parvo ...
Marches across the nation today in support of keeping immigrant families together.
Protest and solidarity and learning how to voice concerns is one way to get 40 percent of the country to realize that we can not only fight for change but we can actually bring about that change. Power in numbers!
Thousands are marching today against Trump's cruel immigration policies.
thttps://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/thousands-across-u-s-join-keep-families-together-march-protest-n888006
In the end, one thing Trump has done which is good is he has politicized a lot of people! That's a good thing and maybe more Alexandria Ocasio Cortes' will come out of that.
Re. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, please consider ...
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/democrats-ignore-left-their-peril-midwesterners-aren-t-scared-socialism-ncna889741 & re. tRUMP's baby imprisoning fukwittery ...
https://truthout.org/articles/two-weeks-after-ending-family-separation-parents-still-cant-contact-their-children/
multum in parvo ...
I just love it when the newsmaker makes fake news into news. My constipated kid told me, "sooner or later, it will ALL come back out!" I savor and miss the days when we were told, "you are fired! And you, and you!" as the black-leather executive chair spun a tizzy after having been mounted by the kid. Die Gedankenpolizeisäuberung gefällt mir. Ich liebe die amerikanische Staatssicherheit.
The solution to an entanglement of the constitutional sort is to purge and perch. Eat and drink more per my kid's tried-and-true ( Enviromental Pollution Agency's caveat: immediately engage a high-caliber oil/gas service company should hydraulic hydrofracking become necessary to dislodge the tight gas for it to escape ) scientific prescription for liquidating constipation.
Some of us voted to stop Trump from winning, not enough a lot voted for the ego whore Greens and let Trump win too bad more weren't there to stop him from winning in the first place.
Will you show "solidarity" as we approach election day or will you "go your own way" to make "a point"?
I have posted about these people before, here is a link to the group that got Alex started on her way to Congress.
https://now.justicedemocrats.com/candidates
You can continue to elect the GOP and Donald Trumps, after all we all know you LOVE Donald Trump and ALL he does,. but some like Alex O-C will join with the Democrats to defeat them.
Here is a link to people who are actually trying to stop Trump rather than working like you to elect more GOP, you can see Alex near the middle of the page.
https://now.justicedemocrats.com/candidates
Alex O-C has figured it out, so ... WHY haven't U?!
BOTH parties are owned by Banks!
BOTH parties are slaves to Corporations!
BOTH parties are prepared to spy on Americans!
BOTH parties will continue with The Police State in USA!
BOTH parties support US War Machine and start Illegal Wars!
BOTH parties want to continue The War on Drugs causing migration!
BOTH parties are owned & controlled by People Before Profit Psychos!
BOTH parties pay lip service to US Democracy, while defending Oligarchy!
BOTH GOP AND GOP-lite ... ARE THE PROBLEM - AND NOT THE SOLUTION!
Also note, if U dare ...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nancy-pelosi-says-socialism-is-not-ascendant-in-the-democratic-party/
&: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-win-and-the-energy-on-the-left.html
A O-C "recruited" herself and her Bronx/Queens NYC community! U have NOTHING to say about Corp.
Dems like Pelosi & A O-C's defeated DEM OPPONENT tho' - have U factsRfukt? Why?! Because U are
totally fkn adickted to the Dems - aren't U?!! There is a Left/Liberal/Prgressive fighting to get out of your
MSM/Establishment programmed conservative self, so do yourself a favor now and try to LET IT OUT!!!
Once again, U need to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dyVxMmmMZE and also see:
this https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-and-the-legacy-of-the-bernie-sanders-movement & finally this Tweet in reply to a famous Dem fixated, HRC arse kisser:
https://twitter.com/Shadz66Shadz6t6/status/1013422568890621952 where I xpln to Deanna Troi!
& https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1013540404879396865 to see what A O-C has to endure
BTfknW, how about U show a single piece of evidence of me .. ''supporting or loving'' tRUMP - that does
NOT rely to your persistent Zero-Sum Game Binary of: ''GOP; Bad / GOPlite; Good'', schizoid horseshit!
Maybe conservative attachment to youthful JFK/RFK liberal politics, is now clouding present judgement?
Whatever your major malfunction re.Dems, U won't inspire A O-C type youth, with your Binary Bullcrap!!
ad iudicium ...
So do feel Alex sold out by joining the Democratic Party? Do you think she should have ran as a Green? Do you think Alex has given in to the duopoly? Now that Alex is a Democrat is she owned by the banks too?
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez & her team, basically infiltrated, co-opted & subverted the DNC/Dem machine
in Bronx/Queens, NYC .. IN ORDER TO BEAT THE CORP. DEM who was in situ & fkn good luck to her!
Don't know really whyTF U keep mentioning Greens to me - U stupid oaf OR are U still fighting the 2000
(S)election?!! Who was A O-C's predecessor and, was he ''owned by the banks'' OR NOT & is THAT the
actual problem with the RW Corp.Dems .. OR NOT?!!!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-get-40-percent-of-country-to-appreciate-a-c/#comment-1075993
http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-get-40-percent-of-country-to-appreciate-a-c/#comment-1075994
fiat lux ...
Tthe thing is you NEVER said shit about Bernie when he was running because you are Green Party shithead that don't give a damn about anything but your fucking party.
Nope numbskull, I have said plenty in support of Bernie here, on Twitter and elsewhere - it's just that my
contributions here were in the form of comments on other people's forum-posts, as that's what I do more
of since the previous Dem/Likud obsessed mods here, kept trying to ban me from this forum! U can now
check some of my Twitter support for Bernie via the 1st link below, U Democrap obsessed, RW dingbat!
https://twitter.com/search?q=%40Shadz66Shadz6t6%20%20%23BernieSanders&src=typd&lang=en + more importantly
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/08/04/denouncing-centrist-corporate-democrats-cynthia-nixon-declares-time-fight
verum ex absurdo?
I have been calling for the infiltration of the Democratic Party since before there was an OWS, only idiots push third party bullshit.
BOTH the GOP & GOPlite Dems - originally came into being as 3rd Party Entities, in reaction to the then
ossified political status quo. Sadly, ''As your whole animus here is devoted to extolling the GOPlite Corp.
Dems, U really need to watch'' this video about ... ''How To Counter Establishment Politics'' ...
On this radical OWS forum, to continue to bleat in support of the twisted status quo - is to reveal yourself
frf, as having the definitive conservative PoV! So: How Long will it take to ''infiltrate'' your beloved DEMS
for The 99%?!! Will there be ''Resistance'' to that all the way by all the entrenched RW elements who put
HRC up against tRUMP, KNOWING BERNIE WOULD HAVE WON?!!! U're the ''only idiot'' here, pushing
more of the same - expecting new & different results!!!! My personal hope, was that Bernie would go 3rd
Party; that the GOP had rejected DJT & gone with eg. Mittens Romoney & that tRUMP & his ego, would
have run as an independent RW Ultra-Reactionary & Nativist option - so that there would have been a 4
way split, as Bernie'd have won a 2 way; 3 way OR a 4 way fight. U however are stuck in your old ways,
hankering for a long distant ''liberal'' Dem Party but U just can't compute just how RW they are now, with
their addiction to the Psycho-Economics of Neoliberalism & their infatuation with Neocon Foreign Policy!
U really need to wakeTF up IF U are ever going to be party to the revolutionary change that USA needs!
So didn't U once say: http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-liberals-have-to-be-radicals/ ? (Read It!)
Also see .. https://truthout.org/articles/neoliberalism-the-ideology-at-the-root-of-all-our-problems/
and ask .. ''Who are The Neocons?" - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35106.htm
veritas vos liberabit!
By becoming Democrats? That's brilliant! You should do that too, everyone should!
I have been calling on people here to infiltrate and take over the Democratic Party for 6 years now, and you know I have.
"How To Counter Establishment Politics'':
As your whole animus here is devoted to extolling the GOPlite Corp.Dems, U must ^watch^ or see:
multum in parvo ...
Alexandria ran because the Justice Democrats asked her to, you should get involved electing good people like her by supporting other Justice Democrat candidates.
https://now.justicedemocrats.com/candidates
Alex Ocasio-Cortez was recruited by the Justice Democrats. Here's a link to a post I put up about them about 7 months ago.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/for-any-who-want-to-do-something-other-than-elect-/