Forum Post: Hello. I'm in the 1%. Ask me anything.
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 27, 2011, 12:22 a.m. EST by onepercentguy
(294)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I have been lurking here for a few hours, haven't seen anyone really from my POV post. I'm in my mid-30s. Do not work in the financial industry.
edit. I make about $500k a year, this year and last. The figure I see quoted frequently as to who the 1% is is the top 1% in household income, which was around $500k for 2010. Assets are over $2 million. Debt free, other than my $3-4k credit card balance that I pay in full every month. Paid for my house cash. This is new for me, didnt grow up with money and only made a fraction of that as an associate previously. Income does not include unrealized gains from stock I've owned for years. Agree that my assets aren't really representative of 1%. I hope to reach 20 to 40 million net worth by my prime earning years, we'll see.
mid 40's, software engineer, not going hungry any time soon. it pains me to see the decimation of industries in the US and the huge dent its made in formerly healthy and vibrant middle class. does anything in there sound like your POV?
Agreed. I'm concerned in two ways. First, just as a concerned neighbor and friend, seeing the people I know who are smart, hardworking getting by on unemployment benefits and their self esteem dropping by the day. When unemployment is persistently high for this long, our elected officials are to blame.
Second, as a student of history. Every other civilization in modern history that has had such a disparate wealth distribution has ended in bloody revolution.
yup on both points, most concerning to me is your second point... if the trend of the last few decades continue, not good at all, end of america scenarios... we have to find a healthy socio-economic situation that works in the face of globalization,
I have, what I believe to be, a healthy socio-economic strategy. I've posted two threads on this forum, titled, 'IT'S TIME' and 'Reconstructing the social/economic structure'. They don't exactly outline the strategy directly as that would require a whole book, but they give a sense of my point of view and general sense of where I'm going with it.
You got it
You have clearly identified the problems. Can you suggest some solutions.
I would push for targeted tax cuts that promote job growth while reducing the deficit. And for targeted spending cuts in entitlement programs.
Extend payroll tax cuts for workers through 2013, which will encourage consumer spending since payroll taxes are the biggest tax the lower-middle and lower classes pay - they don't pay that much income tax. Such a cut would have a bigger impact on those classes than the Bush tax cuts and wouldn't be that big a hit in terms of the deficit. I would encourage hiring by offering businesses cuts in their payroll taxes if they hire and keep new employees for several years. This is a common sense cut that has been defeated by special interests for years.
On the spending end, I would close most corporate tax loopholes. I would oppose any and all new extensions of unemployment benefits. I would implement true Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security reform. I would maintain benefits for current retirees but would institute clear benefit cuts for those younger than 50 years old right now. I would increase the ceiling on income that is taxed for such programs up to $250k. I would decrease defense spending by 25% right off the bat.
targeted tax cuts that promote job growth? tried that, didn't work. we need to use other incentives. reward companies that hire and pay living wages. punish companies that hold excessive capital or move it across borders. regulate the compensation levels for corporate executives in the financial industry.
Nah, we really haven't. The tax cuts have been anything but targeted regarding job growth, with many having little to no effect whatsoever on long-term job growth Particularly the credits, the housing credit and cash for clunkers were a complete waste of money. All the housing credit did was delay the inevitable bottoming of the housing market.
I agree with you about the credits. But now is not the time for more tax cuts. We will never lower the deficit with more tax cuts. We need punitive taxes on those holding wealth without hiring. We need to lower the unemployment (not just the official rate number) and get the wealth being held on the sidelines back into the system to juice the economy.
How will you force the government to take these actions.
I wouldn't force anyone to take these actions. I would support likeminded caucuses and vote for likeminded candidates.
the problem is that no one my/our age (20s-30s) give a crap about politics in large numbers, meaning my views are always run over by retirees who outnumber me and vote for all kinds of screwballs.
If income skew is dangerous, then we should shut down mass immigration of poor unskilled people. Income skew doesn't just come from better off people becoming more successful. It comes from adding people at the bottom too. Illegitimacy and dropping out are other gems, not imposed by the Man, but that are simply bad choices that contribute to inequality.
If we at the top are going to be held accountable for it all in the end, it's time we address immigration and dysfunction on our own terms now.
Eh. If citizens were willing to take on those unskilled, low paying positions, then I would agree. But they aren't. Produce won't pick itself, bathrooms won't clean themselves, have to hire someone to do it. Those companies have no choice but to legally hire immigrants, from my experience.
You're smart enough to have heard of elasticity. The mix of jobs in the economy isn't simply fixed, it moves with price. We've flooded the country will no-skill people. But what do we know? We know that markets clear. Demand and supply achieve balance. The only way to absorb this giant servant class has been to reduce price to generate demand. That's why we've seen an explosion in nail salons, lawn services, restaurants, and valet parking. At higher prices, those jobs don't exist; they melt away into a different equilibrium (a healthier one). In Houston, valet parking is everywhere. In Minnesota it isn't (yet). There's a reason for this. People in Minnesota don't stand there helpless wondering who's going to park their car. They don't.
There's another concept in economics that you should've bumped into by now. It's call externalities. The farms pay only part of the cost of their labor. The rest is borne by schools, hospitals, people that get hit by uninsured drivers, and social services, for example. If those costs were plugged back to the farmer, we'd be importing more of those tomatoes and, again, we'd have a different point of equilibrium with less poverty.
"externalities" another industry that has costs camouflaged is 'air travel'. If all the supporting costs were applied to the Airline Ticket- there would be a boom in AMTRAK activity. 'Pay for what you take' has its place in a mature industry.
Airlines do avoid some of their externalities. But I doubt that would do much for Amtrak. I've read where the govt would lose less money on a coast-to-coast Amtrak ticket if they just gave away plane tickets.
If you saw your plane ticket double- you might research alternatives. Being able to take 3 over-nite stops on one ticket was a great savings for me.
Amtrak takes time and patience. It also takes a government willing to bury losses on taxpayer.
Amtrak is moving away from taxpayer support. Their tickets should have the same realism as airlines. Many Subways and Light Rail connect with the Train, but hardly ever with airports. I have traveled about 10,000 miles by train.
No need to lecture me, my B.S. is in econ :) Merely stating the end result, the companies I do business with in hospitality and food are bringing in Guatamalans to do their work. Legally, to boot. Nor am I saying it is right.
Strange, I don't see that much valet parking in Houston. Downtown or midtown or in the medical district.
Now apply those economic principles you learned about to the situation at hand. Jobs aren't fixed, they relate to an equilibrium of supply and demand. Our current one is economically inefficient as it's based on extreme externalities. If the true costs of this unskilled labor were pushed through into the end services, demand for those services would collapse. Car washes, nail salons, massages, lawn service, valet parking, restaurants and the like are all pretty elastic things.
In St. Paul, what's probably the best restaurant in town doesn't have valet parking. But it will as this servant class fans out across the country. In Houston, even something as moderate as Carraba's (right there on Kirby) has it and if you go to places like Hugos, valet is the only option. In Houston, lawn guys leaf blow their way down the street. In Minnesota, people (for now) are much more likely to do their own or if they use a service, to use it sparingly because of the cost (again, simple elasticity). Do they just sit there and stare at each wondering about how the leafs are going to get raked or their cars washed?
Anyone serious about income skew and its consequences has to think about the border.
Demand for such services would collapse, correct. It would require further limitations and restrictions on legal immigrants for unskilled labor, however, limitations that the industry lobbyists will fight tooth and nail to prevent. Not saying its right, of course.
Sure, just like industry fights the cost of pollution rules. I can generate more demand for my product if it's cheaper because someone else bore part of my cost of production. They aren't stupid, they know what I've just been telling you. There's an externality sitting there that they prefer to leave external.
But use your background to understand the issue. You should recognize what I wrote as obvious. The next time someone pulls the "they're only doing jobs Americans won't do" line from the open-border apologist handbook, you'll hopefully call bullshit. Like you said, growing inequality is a pending threat.
Disagree, if such market inefficiency took place in a vacuum, then it would be that clear. They aren't. Has been discussed in this thread that they are doing jobs Americans won't do also because of (1) social stigma and unwillingness to take such a step down in taking those jobs and (2) the extension of unemployment benefits into perpetuity that removes the necessity of taking such a job of last resort.
All of this cheap neo-Keynesian talk about choices among the working class. There really aren't many choices, especially when you consider that the elite holds all the cards. Let's not be smug about "what the poor are doing wrong this time".
What needs to happen is wealth distribution - stop the blatant theft by the 1%. They inflate away our currency's buying power, run monopolies on basic essentials, and profit from human sickness and misery. They encourage the "race to the bottom" in terms of wages and working conditions. They are finding out in a big hurry where that gets you...
"1% guy", you are a fool to try to associate yourself with them - you have no idea how to wield your economic power. Secondly, you'll be thrown under the bus the minute your little petroleum tort-reform legal practice goes under - they don't care about you or what you have to say...
The nationality of who is doing the jobs has nothing to do with it. We've had a crushing over-supply of no-skill people. The market clearing prices needed to absorb that many people capable of so little is very low. Massive new demand had to be created; that took very low prices to generate. The jobs you see as fixed, grew radically in number because of our friend elasticity. Now we have a giant servant industry fueled by imported peasants. If the social costs I identified were plugged into the price, demand would reverse. This should be obvious to an economics major, it is to this one.
Now, let's deal with nationality. The fact that Americans won't do those jobs in large numbers is no argument that they should exist at today's extremes. The wage for a "job of last resort" has been pounded lower by an oversupply over our border. Taking away social support would, of course, simply force people into that market, that much is true. But that's not a surprise and that too is no argument for why an American peasantry is a good idea.
Building out a servant class has serious consequences for income skew and future social stability.
No, not really Ron. I don't disagree about job growth. That's not the point. But when we import wholly unskilled people, the kind of jobs we're creating are heavily skewed towards low income servant-type work. They're working, but they're working poor. OWS claims to be against inequality and what comes over our border is a major source of that inequality. OWS should "occupy" the border.
Most people do stay in poverty jobs. If you're a grown up and have a 6th grade education, mobility is extremely limited. Their children also under-participate in graduating high school and over-participate in illegitimacy, so the poverty and inequality roll forward.
Nah, I'm not arguing that Americans not going to those jobs justify the oversupply of no-skill labor. Pointing out the trend is by no means an endorsement of it :)
I get what you're saying, its going to take comprehensive immigration reform to have a tangible impact on reducing a servant class and close the wealth gap that I'm concerned about. No disagreement there.
There is a lot to think about in all of these comments and fortunately I don't see people in this thread that are adamant about forcing their opinions on all the rest of us..........This is the greatest method that ever existed to find the common solution to any problems. Thank all of you for your civility and sharing your ideas here Democracy at its' finest.
I think you both miss the point of common sense. Where does motivation come into the mix. Those immigrants have actually created jobs according to the information you provide and are creating them as they move about the country. More than I can say about some economic models. They are creating jobs for themselves and if your comprehensive surveys indicate that they plan to stay in those jobs the rest of their life so be it. However, in that case, I would question your statistics. These are a group of people that are motivated out of their situation. It is very difficult to motivate those of our society that have found a certain amount of comfort in their welfare state. I think they SEE the future, we only imagine it.
Tryagain - very well based in some wisdom missed by others. Everyone wants to look at history in their own context. Some of my grandparents came to America from Ireland - they didn't come here because they owned the railroad - they came here to work on the railroad. There were some pretty rich men controlling those railroads at the time. My grandparents decided to work their way up to where they saw they could be rather than plant their feet in the ground and drag everyone down to their poor state.
I see two things happening around.
I fully agree that we do need to address immigration and the dysfunctional but between the two, the dysfunctional are the ones that keep me working 60 hours a week to pay for their dysfunctional lifestyle and I only see this group getting larger and larger as 21 million immigrants that the lower paying jobs and out maneuver them for the better paying jobs in the future. I am watching it happen daily right in my own city.
HISTORY IS RIGHT OUT THERE
Do you see the difference between the workers standing out in front of Home Depot and the ones camped in the park. One wants to work to change their place in the system for the better and the other wants to change the system for who knows what.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
Here's what different now than in the past. In 1900, someone with a 6th average was about on level with the workforce, now it's radically below. If we had mass immigration of people with 1 year post high school, then you'd have a good analogy. But that's not what we're getting. In this way, we're averaging down our workforce and bloating poverty and an underclass.
Your ideas about their children are idealistic and untrue. Children of poor unskilled immigrants themselves UNDER-participate in graduating high school and OVER-participate in poverty behaviors like illegitimacy. So, we get a multi-generational underclass that maybe in 4 or 5 generations reaches parity, but certainly not with their kids.
True hard working peasants are better than dysfunctional non-working Americans. And I see a huge character step up from campers to unskilled immigrants. The work ethic is often truly admirable. But you can have all the work ethic. If you combined it with a 6th grade eduction, you'll still be poor.
It's just a fact: mass immigration of unskilled people has contributed a lot to poverty and income skew. This utterly escapes the OWSers.
Tryagain is right. I have an Associate of Applied Science Degree in horticulture. My dream is to start my own horticulturally based business. I can't even get a jumping off job in the field to gain business experience. Too many landscapers, garden centers, and farmers would rather employ an illegal under the table than employ an American at minimum wage.
I truly agree that this is currently the case as it applies to todays statistics. I was referring to the historic record that shows that generation by generation a people group can raise itself collectively out of poverty and improve its' educational accomplishments.I
I full agree that the current statistics and related assumptions are fully skewed and that it utterly escapes the OWSers and a lot more of us.
Very true.
there is a way to save that self esteem
The idea of the banks recovering the loss thru selling the property is, at this time, ludicrous
Idea: Banks should be required to ' Suspend' payments and interest accumulation if a person loses their job during an 'economic downturn' until that person finds a comparable paying job or until the national unemployment rate is less than 5%.
banks should be required to take a percentage of what they took for a bailout and set it aside for small business loans.
small business will not get us out of this recession. In most small businesses ,, only the owner and a few friends ever get an income sufficient to pay a mortgage anyway
Nope. "Small business" can mean anything up to 500 employees or more, if you like. Where I work there are trade journals--dozens of 'em each full slick full color ads costing $16k a page, and the business I'm in is something you probably have never heard of, nor have most people. Here we have 20+ people paying mortgages and rent, and we're not even a blip on the radar. Small business is the business world for all intents and purposes, and banks are choking them out, playing casino games instead of investing constructively. That's just one of the problems we face today. Others include military spending and government corruption.
I disagree with the benchmarks you name that would trigger such a suspension of payments and interest accumulation, but I wouldn't necessarily be against such legislation.
It's bad public policy to dump REOs on an already depressed housing market. Banks already know this, they're taking their sweet time putting their inventory on the market.
there wont be anyone to buy it when they do. just cost the bank more money to maintain. and wheres that money coming from
precisely. hence me not being against such an idea. i wouldnt tie it government compiled economic data like unemployment, would create an enormous conflict of interest, would have to find something else. Can't think of anything off the top of my head.
create an independent compiler or perhaps several operating off one set formula to find a number. the formula is published for everyone to agree on.
if its something that is free from any political influence, sure. i'm just wary of using any government published economic data as a triggering mechanism for any kind of market intervention legislation. it invites political influence where there absolutely should be none. goes to credibility, both to our citizens and to global markets. has train wreck written all over it.
I agree. could be done though
"The dice are loaded, the table's tilted, the game is rigged"
Excellent point!
You give politicians too much credit. They don't have that much influence on the economy. Face it, today we compete globally for work and people work cheap in other places.
the reason that is possible is cause our government allows this to happen. its not just the way things are. laws were passed that gave these corporations the method they used to cause this economic downturn.
we didn't always!
Disagree. The trade agreements we enter in and the tax breaks we give multinational corporations start with our elected officials. They are the gatekeepers and deserve such scrutiny.
People work cheaper in other places, but it isn't in a vacuum. Manufacturing is actually moving out of places like China and SE Asia because of the growing middle class in both places, desiring better wages and benefits, luxuries and products. All those empty freight containers that we used to send back across the Pacific after we get our cheap consumer products are now filled with American corn, beef and chicken and Buicks. Not opinion, fact.
yes, the government gives the corporations leeway to export the middle class ... the reason for the 'growing middle class' is because they have all the jobs that have been outsourced, when the government could make this too expensive for corporations instead of making it easy.
I'm not seeing that trend in the export figures?
dont know what numbers you are looking at. corn, soybeans, lumber, natural gas and beef exports from the US and Canada to China have been ramping up for years. Natural gas firms are scrambling to build more terminals on the west coast to handle it. I just read a story the other day that analysts project lumber shipments from US and Canada to double within two years. And GM can't build Buicks fast enough to meet the demand. Buick is being marketed and viewed by the Chinese as the aspirational luxury vehicle
the global economy is contracting. But the predicted crisis, decades long in the making, is now underway and has entered a new and different phase, one far more dangerous than that which preceded it. The world economy is now on the verge of a total systemic breakdown. The mechanism underlying the present credit-based system is now broken; for its two critical underpinnings, banks and government are not just broken—far more importantly, both are now literally flat broke.
I have worked for many years in Asia and have been astounded at the growth. I believe that in 20 years (or sooner) we will have wage parity between the US and China. We have seen this happen recently between the US and Japan. Trade agreements are a good thing as are multi-national companies. Remember that if goods don't cross your borders soldiers will. Multi-national Company is just a fancy name for a group of diverse people work together toward a common useful goal. There great thing about a corporation is that if they do a lousy job their competitors drive them out of business. Not so with governments. They have no motivation to produce a good product for a reasonable price.
If we got rid of our trade agreements we wouldn't have to compete on a global scale with slave labor willing to work for pennies on the dollar. We could write legislation that forces companies that makes the majority of their profits inside of the USA, to employ US workers and have their plants and HQ's here (and actually pay taxes on those profits), but that would require our politicians to grow a spinal chord and they won't do that as long as rulings like Citizens United are keeping all of their campaign coffers stuffed with blood money.
Folks in Tupelo work for lower wages than folks in NYC. Why not ban trade between New York and Mississippi?
unconstitutional.
And why did the framers want to insure inter-state commerce? Because trade is a good thing. If goods don't cross your borders soldiers will.
i am not saying fair trade is bad; i'm saying (one sided) free trade is terrible. Comparative advantage is a hokey proposition when it derives from totalitarian, un-american trading policies. why should i have to compete with people who don't have my liberties. That proposition seems like a step backwards.
We surely must be smart about the agreements that we negotiate, however the agreements can be used as a tool to change the un-appealing policies of our trading partners. We will have a greater ability to close down foreign sweat-shops if we maintain leverage with the offending government via the trade agreement. What is the alternative? Iraq?
Software engineer.....I wouldn't feel that secure!
jobwise, i'm doing just fine... and my savings help provide a sense of security too... like i said, i'm not going hungry anytime soon.
Good for you!
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It's amazing how every wealthy person on these forums is 100% self-made bootstrap pulling, rags to riches American dream pie-in-the-sky success story.
I tried pulling myself up from the bootstraps and the damn straps broke!
Eh, I wouldn't characterize myself as rags to riches, exactly. I always had a roof over my head and meals to eat.
Matters how much you give to charity, what you do for society, how you made your money--did you do it honestly.
We have many big money people on our side--Michael Moore, Naomi Klein, Ralph Nader, Noam Chomsky. It goes beyond money, it's really in the end about ethics. How you see the poor, the working class, do you see us as victims of the unfair system or entitled whiners.
Both. I feel most working poor at the victims of a broken system. But some are entitled whiners as well. I serve on the boards of two nonprofits and perform volunteer work regularly, I can tell you many poor simply milk available resources for all they are worth and move on to the next, happy with doing the bare minimum to get by. You see the same faces who do not comply with our requirements to get job training and job counseling as part of our aid. It is sad, but it's the truth.
I don't care about those people. The ones I do work their ass off and have no wealth to show for it.
Most people of my means see the freeloaders and lump all the poor with them. That is wrong.
THis is part of the blame the victim for the gamed system approach. If the poor would but take part in job counseling (for jobs that aren't there), and stop milking the system and actually work for a living (in jobs that aren't there), then you might have some emotion for them. Your time is over. Sustainable economies that recognize the true worth of the individual, provide for human need, and preserve and protect the environment is what this movement is about.
Accurately describes Wall St bankers...
Charity is humiliating. We are about empowering. Charity dis-empowers. That's why the capitalists love it.
Charity for the poor, sure. Especially for those who grow dependent on it. Charity for education, the arts, on the other hand, is very empowering. Wouldn't be here if it wasn't for all those foundation funded scholarships in undergrad, I spose.
hmmmm, so you benefited from "charity". Charity is replacing public services: decent education for everyone, access to higher education. Let's abolish charity and fully fund public services (not privatized), and create massive numbers of jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure, developing and producing clean energy, health care for all (universal), and free education for all, and end the wars to pay for it, and tax the rich...of course.
Agreed on all points except abolishing charity, of course. If people want to give away their money, they should.
Of course. A system though that favors charity above decent public services is one we are fighting to change. that's what I'm talkin 'bout.
Agreed. Don't be so combative, we agree on far more than we disagree on :)
GREAT comments that exhibit how compassion for your fellow man is a PRACTICAL and RATIONAL consideration. Thanks for contributing !
Good for you. It's not impossible to make it big. Just extremely unlikely. Not everyone can win the lottery, right?
I agree with another poster that the .1% is the problem, not the 1%. They are the ones that have rigged the system to favor the filthy rich; they are the ones that take advantage of the poor.
Hi 1% I just wanted to know on this topic of college, do you think that those born into privilege have an unfair advantage over others? I saw you mentioned earlier that many seeking employment simply do not have the qualifications, however many with the desire and hard work to back it up- will never have the opportunities to gather those qualifications. I believe some can 'overcome' their condition, but there is no question that simple 'hard work' is not enough to bring any one from the bottom to the top. The average American believed that ideal for so long and now find it lacking. Does the disparity between the 99 and 1 exacerbate this depravity?
I do, it is an unfair advantage. Read my other posts, I talk about how some folks, particularly young black men, are born into impossible situations with next to no opportunity to succeed. Hence my strong support of targeted increases in funding for underperforming schools. I would be willing to pay higher taxes levvied against the rich for this specific purpose by the state. Not federal, our secondary education system is not centralized nationally unlike the Germans and Japanese, if I recall correctly.
The problem for me is that I'm in Texas and we don't have a state income tax, but that's another matter entirely.
And I donate quite generously to my undergrad school for merit scholarships targeting lower income kids. I received the same assistance when I was there and feel a responsibility to pay it forward as best I can.
I disagree I grew up in a poor neigborhood and went to schools with High minority.. They were called Uncle Tom's if they preformed well in school. The Democrats want them to stay on the Democratic Planations: 14,000,000,000,000 (fourteen million million) plus $1,600,000,000,000 added each year. We currently can not pay the interest on this money with our tax revenue. Taking all of the money, not taxing all of the money, of those making over $250,000 per year does not fill the gap. The clear implication, taxes do not do the trick so "taxing the rich" is nothing but a Democratic buzz word to incite support. We must stop spending and that means some are going to suffer, some. If we do not control this insanity, we all will suffer, ALL. Are you aware that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of wealthy Americans making contingency plans to leave America if this thing blows up? No? It is true. Are you aware that millions of Americans are making plans to unite for mutual protection if this thing blows up? No? Well, it is true also. On the verge of collapse and the damned Democrats are still name calling, finger pointing, twisting words, lying and any thing else they can do to further a failing ideology. No? Read:
Do you advocate for a progressive tax system or a flat tax?
Am perfectly fine with a progressive tax system. Not against a flat tax in concept, its just that most of the flat tax proposals I've heard so far have some kind of regressive tax on the poor that punishes them for how much of their income is spent on consumption i.e. cain's 9% national sales tax. Am against that.
Yeah the 9 9 9 thing is a farce. There are progressive versions of a flat tax that eliminate all consumption taxes ( sales tax which is bad for poor people buying necessities and property tax which is bad for elderly people who are often house poor). Just tax income (all of it including capitol gains and inheritance) so only people with income pax taxes and only when they are currently employed. Wealthy, unemployed people would pay taxes on income not coming from employment ( dividends, capitol gains, inherited wealth).
not true- for anyone at or under the poverty line cains plain calls for 0% income tax Consumption tax is the fairest tax.... everyone pays the same % rate except on basic necessities such as food. If I collect 100% of my income, I think it should cost me 23% in tax for an IPOD... by the way, the cost of goods will drop if we go to a consumption tax or hybrid and will inflate the purchasing power of the U.S. dollar
Debateable. Does not take into account the growing middle classes overseas in places like India and China, driving up prices of soft commodities. No domestic sales tax policy can account for that potential catastrophe.
Cain's plan doesn't convince me. Plenty of working class poor above the poverty line who will get hurt needlessly.
I am firmly in the 1%. With that said, it's not the 1% that is an issue. It's not capitalism that is an issue.
It's that our entire political system has been bought and paid for by corporate interests. We have allowed our politicians to auction off the American constitution and the well-being of every person in this great country.
Our government no longer represents the will of its citizens. It is making laws, regulations, wars and treaties in order to serve those that pay for their political capital.
We see our politicians pass these laws "to benefit Americans" but the only beneficial portion of the laws are to reduce the costs or create loopholes for corporations and their owners.
We are effectively starving the poor and middle class - and allowing the money to flow one direction and pool up. We are effectively setting up exportation of all our manual labor jobs. We are allowing corporate law to remove our pensions and use them as parachutes.
Until we get money out of politics completely - this will continue to be the case.
Then we can have a true and honest discussion about what is right for this country. An amalgamation of ideas, a review of our current situation and a legitimate discussion on financial accountability. Extremist views, whether conservative or liberal, will never work and have always shown to be flawed. But we can't open up this discussion and determine the course that Americans want this country to take so long as money is in our political system and we allow ourselves to be divided by our media, our skin color and any other divide they like to foist on us.
"Until we get the money out of politics completely" as quoted by gtyper our financial crisis will continue. Lets get to the root of the problem. Please sign the petition at www.getmoneyout.com
Of course the 1% would say capitalism is not the issue. The very premise of capitalism, profit motive above all else, makes it a system ripe for corruption. This corruption started at the beginning of our country. It's time for a sustainable economy that addresses human need, preserves and cleans the environment, and provides ample opportunity for personal and community enrichment. Capitalism is a dinosaur whose time for extinction has come.
Duranta,
Every system that is adhered to without regard for anything else will fail.
It's the nature of extremes. For an extreme to exist and flourish - it needs to exist within a vacuum where actions are known and always within the expected behavior patterns. This will never happen - and thus extremes fail.
You advocate that capitalism is a dinosaur and should be abolished. For what, pray tell? Pure socialism?
So, all you are advocating is really that we reshuffle the cards and give the power and wealth to the political class who have been more than complicit in circumventing the will and needs of the American populous to line their pockets? Worst still, you are pushing the notion of granting more authority and fiscal powers to an entity that promotes inefficient usage of capital and has shown it is fiscally irresponsible.
Any consolidation of power should be looked at with a wary eye. The government is not to be trusted any more than a corporation or a dictator -- regardless of how well intentioned their motives seem.
Pure capitalism is just another form of economic/social ordering. And just like any system there are pros and cons which need monitoring and regulation. But you have to be wary of the regulators as well, for these people don't necessarily have good intentions or know the end result of even the most well-designed policy.
I will say again - capitalism isn't the problem. Human greed and unwatched capitalism is the problem. Worse, it's the mingling of our capitalism and government that is the biggest threat.
"Human greed and unwatched capitalism is the problem". It's not just capitalism that suffers from greed. Socialism, Communism, any-ism will be corrupted by greed if left unattended....They all start with noble goals, but become twisted and ugly when the fox is allowed to guard the hen house.
Just as an insert to this topic might I suggest that "success" needs to be carefully defined. The very fact that onepercentguy stated in one of his posts that he hopes to one day be worth 20-40 million illustrates that lack of a discernible goal line where one can consider him/herself successful creates an environment conducive to extremes of personal self indulgence. Why on Earth would anyone NEED such personal wealth? And therein lies the kicker the word NEED. I personally would consider myself a success if I owned my home, car, had health insurance, and could afford to shop for food I like not only that which is on sale
I know you want to protect your opportunities, and you have convinced yourself that you can have your cake and eat it to. You have also convinced yourself that you can appeal to the 99% reasonably that hey, I'm a good guy, and I'm part of the 1%. I'm not advocating we turn the power over to the political class. That's already happened, isn't it, as the political class serves the 1%. I'm advocating for direct democracy such has been established in the encampments. Representational democracy serves the 1%, and even with reforms, keeps intact the world banking system that has impoverished the people. I'm for abolishing representational democracy, and establishing people's assemblies to decide how to use resources, and where to put our collective wealth. Perhaps wealth itself will be redefined.
I do? Glad you have your psyche degree, but I'd put it away as you are way off base.
The political class hardly represents the 1%. You really think a doctor in Iowa is helping influence our political process? No. They sold out to the highest bidder. They sold out to corporations and the 0.01%.
A direct democracy is one of the scarier things one can suggest. It sounds wonderful in theory, but how many people have the time to truly educate themselves and vote on every issue?
Anyhow, have fun trying to instill your brand new form of government that no one has asked for or wants -- you'll be alone in your sandbox. Either that, or you can look at what we have today and try to fix it.
Political class as how defined? Elected officials, for the most part, work for their own enrichment by parasite behavior off of the 1%. We can't do any worse with direct democracy. Our economy is in shambles, millions are desperate, and our environment on a large scale is devastated. Time for a change. We'll work hard without the greedy awards your class revels in.
The political class = politicians. The politicians and the political system does not benefit the 1%.
I agree that the politicians of this country are motivated only by lining their own pockets and furthering their own political power base. This can partially be abolished by removing money from politics. A goal that I think needs to be in the minds of the OWS protestors.
Getting our political system back from the auction process is paramount to any real, helpful changes.
I understand where you're coming from - but that type of system just simply isn't realistic and would require too much upheaval to begin to realize. Something 99.999999% of the population would be against.
The ruling elite won't let go without a massive upheaval that will be fueled by direct democracy. Even in Europe with parliamentary systems and publicly funded elections, the top 1% dictate policy. Why? 'Cause the massive financial institutions are in control. Firmly. Taking the money out of politics won't take the corruption generally out of capitalism.
Every system of any government or social construct will have openings for corruption and consolidation of powers. You cannot regulate it through force.
In order for your form of society to exist we would need a change in metaphysical understanding. Not force through legislation.
Well said!!
Bravo
Oh, and avoid all the media bullshit. Any media that take the flat tax seriously should be ignored.
Investors would pay zero taxes! Amazing.
hey opg, first, thanks for coming on this forum and offering to share your views. personally, i think OWS and these open forums that allow an open and free exchange of ideas has it right where such an organic process can become both emergent and self organizing that will inform what this movement is about and where it will eventually lead us.
Now my question, even though that you are in the one percent, do feel any responsibility to address the inequities in our society where the middle class has shouldered a greater burden for a dysfunctional government, and a corrupt and abusive financial industry? you may not have contributed to the problems that we have today, but are you willing to become part of the solution even at purposes that may not be in your own economic interest.
Responsibility in a micro sense, as in personally? No. I don't. I've lived a decent, selfless life, I think. I am able to give money away now to causes I care about and am very gratified that I am in a position to do so.
Responsibility by association? Of course. Read my posts in this thread, the growing wealth gap and the sham of everyone needing to go to college bothers me greatly.
My economic interests are already marginalized by the taxes I pay and the scorn I get from having money, a little more selflessness in finding solutions isn't a problem.
OPG, I noticed that you mentioned the "sham of everyone needing to go to college" and I happen to agree 100% with that comment. What are your views on trade schools and how would they help America and the American people?
I think we should shut down over half of all public colleges, those that are diploma mills with worthless degrees that serve only to perpetuate themselves. The Texas Techs and UCFs of the world. Tech schools and community college enrollment should then skyrocket, with programs that teach real, professional trades that are marketable. Would save the states trillions over the years and people would be better off in the long run.
Those that are hardworking and smart enough to get into public university should then get a near free ride. Trade school and CC are practically free already.
Again, college is not a birthright. Your high school diploma is. College is a privilege that is earned.
A high school diploma used to get you a good blue collar job that paid a living wage, had benefits, pensions, and you could send your kids to college. Those jobs (and pensions) are all but extinct. To even come close to those standards in today's world, you must have a college degree. I've been downsized to a waitress, I have 4 above average kids (fact, taks scores to prove it). 3 of them are living with us because of under/un-employment, They cannot afford rent, let alone college. I certainly don't have the means to send them. If the bar has moved on the requirements for a good job, shouldn't the bar on your definition of "birthright" move a bit too. At least to the point where tuition is affordable, where one does not have to be overburdened by debt. To question an an earlier point on Demand and the treasures of IBM, et al., How do you create demand if those who traditionally had the money (ie the middle class) no longer have disposable/discretionary cash to spend to create the demand and in turn create jobs? It's a bit like the chicken or egg paradox.
dont get me wrong. i have no problem with people being successful. but, in the end, we all need to pull together to fix the mess we are in. thanks.
Hello 1 Percent Guy,
Do you really need all your money? Would you be willing to give some of it to your poor neighbors? WOuld you be willing to help fund a hospital in an underserved neighborhood or start a few soup kitchens, or schools? As I understand it, the average net worth of one percenters is 19 million dollars. What do you do with all your money, do you have a golden toilet or something? No really, what do you do with your money?
No, I don't need it. Like I said earlier, I invest all of it. Stocks, real estate, businesses. I am creating jobs while others aren't. I'll probably give it all away when I die.
Average net worth is $19 million? I'm rather new then to the 1% of top income, so I have a ways to go there. Who knows, my best earning years are ahead of me.
I give away a large percentage of it away every year. I fund scholarships at my undergrad and law school for hardworking, smart kids in my situation, not from money, I strive to help them climb the socioeconomic ladder as well. Fund arts programs at local schools. Fund the local modern art musuem. Would like to fund more causes with more money as I make more.
I live in a nice, modest house in a very nice neighborhood and very nice suburb. I live far below my means. I have no desire to buy something I don't really need to take up space. The most I spend my money on is travel, which I love, and expensive suits, shirts, ties and shoes for work. That's it.
I would not be willing to give any to poor neighbors. I don't believe in handouts. Having earned what I have, you can understand why I have such an opinion.
if the rest of the 1% were as considerate as you, i feel the world would be a much better place. i personally don't think that wealth is evil in and of itself, it is what people do with it. my feeling is that everyone is free to do with their earned income as they please. when i feel best is when i give. what i feel this movement should be about is getting big money interests OUT of politics. that is where the problems start. as long as our elected officials are representing joe worker dude, then everything is ok, but, when they are bought and paid for by big business interests before they even start the job, well, that is what has led us to the state of affairs that we are dealing with right now.
i really appreciate and respect that you are spending the time with all the folks here in this forum. god bless you brother.
Do you know what's done with the money that's invested? Is there such a thing as ethical investing? Hey, coal miners work harder than anybody and all they get is black lung, so giving some money to them wouldn't be giving a "hand out". I have nothing against people being comfortable nad being able to do the things they love. I think it's important for people to dress so that they feel good, to eat well, etc. I just think being invested in a system that destroys the earth, creates wars for profits, and exploits people isn't a good investment. I would really like to know how to invest money ETHICALLY.
Simple, research the companies you invest in. If they are publicly traded on the major exchanges, they have to disclose such basic information on a regular basis. How much they are making, how much of it they are spending on new shit, what exacting their plans are, etc.
Now, what a person finds ethical and unethical is a different discussion entirely. For example, I would not invest in diamond mining, find it distasteful. But I gladly invest in tobacco, Phillip Morris International and several of the generic label names, don't feel its unethical at all to profit from people consenting to putting poison into their bodies.
Yep, you are indeed part of the one percent! Companies make profit off the backs of the little people and turn around and pay their stock holders who do not work for the money.
Disagree. Smokers consent to putting poison in their bodies knowing that it will eventually kill them, in spite of being bombarded with warnings about the danger from advertising that the government makes big tobacco pay for. I feel no guilt about making money off of it, I find it to be amusing, really.
Fast food companies, I choose not to invest in. Because many working poor have no other choice other than to eat there regularly and screw up their health, I don't oppose taxes or restrictions on fast food or junk food as a class.
that's very honorable,,, if all the 1%ers were like you there likely would be no problem/s ... but can't you see that they are not... and they are doing reckless things with their power... helping no-one except themselves and their close networks...
[Deleted]
A philanthropical entrepreneur is hardly part of the oligarchy we have been talking about. The people we're referring to make your net worth in a week. In my opinion you are still part of the 99% and part of a solution as opposed to the problem. We're more concerned with the older money that dates back to the Feudal era and maybe before. People who were bred to be kings and who crave power and demand subservience. People engrained with a sense of superiority and desire conquest. These people were born with a silver spoon in their mouths and live in ivory towers while creating and shaping the world's economy to better line their pockets. 1% may be a bit of an exaggeration, it might be more like .01% or .001%; truth is its only a handful of people. These are the people that own conglomerates that own other conglomerates that own other conglomerates. We're not mad that you make money. Hell, we'd all love to be you. We're mad at people who abuse money. The banks that move to south dakota and delaware to bypass regulations on interest based on a technicality while continuing to do business nationwide. The federal reserve bank that creates unpresidented amounts of currency causing false inflation. The corporations that own major television networks and replace journalism with sensationalism. The small group of excentric billionaires that holds an anual meeting to decide who they want to endorse for candidacy. No, sir, you are not the 1% we've been talking about. You are still in the boat with all the rest of us in that with the tiniest error in judgment your 19 mil could be reduced to 0. So please, continue to enjoy yourself, enjoy your puplic works and continue your fulfilment of the American Dream. Rest assured, you are not the 1%.
I have a few questions and I want to say ahead of time they are by no means meant to be rude. I read them over and they could be interpreted as rude and a little condescending. So I read through maybe 2 dozen posts to get a feel for who you are. You seem like a pretty "Average Joe" that became wealthy over the years. With that being said, do you feel that you earned that money or was it just that you got lucky? Do you feel you actually earned maybe 200k/yr as opposed to 500k/yr? I mean earned not only on market value for your service, but based on the labor and risk you took. Also, what would a progressive tax do on your propensity to invest in whatever business you are in? I know how the markets work and theoretically, people will not invest more if taxes are taken away. Does a "haircut" really bother you, or is that just fiction?
Your questions are not rude, so no worries. They are a bit jumbled and refer to things I've already answered in this thread, so I suggest rereading my posts.
In short, yes. I feel like I earned every cent of it, based both in terms of market value and the labor I put in/risk I took. Law is not like medicine or finance, we work long hours and take a lot of bullshit. I'm not saying woe is me, I'm not flipping burgers, but I do work very hard for what I have. I'd be out of a job if i didnt.
But I also earlier acknowledge that luck played some small role in meeting my current employer, etc. That luck only goes so far, though. I didn't get into the schools I got into because of my race or legacy, I worked my ass off.
Your question about progressive tax is a bit confusing. We are in such a system and I invest my cash like crazy. If my capital gains taxes are reduced, I will invest even more because the "penalty" on my profits are reduced.
Occupy Wall Street's Most Interesting Occupier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8_cVHcbRkE
Spread this video people! :)
Wow, like I’ve said multiple times, all the true entrepreneurs don’t need the American Dream to feel proud about them selves. And the sad flip side of such a sentiment leaves me to believe that those chasing the dream like a hype chasing the dragon are lacking self confidence but are craving other people’s remuneration and acceptance.
As far as how I got to this point, I went to undergrand and grad school, got a job in my early 20s and climbed the ladder up to now.
No inheritance, my family is blue collar. Everything I have I earned myself. I make money from my job, stock and real estate investments.
Oh. I recognize you. You're a troll. You're writing this from your lair in your parents basement. I can picture it now, the stench of old pizza boxes and dirty laundry. How's that working' out for you living at home with mom and dad. Got your new Ron Lawl calendar hung up on the wall for Jan 2012 don't ya? Thought so. :)
Actually, I did live in my parent's house straight out of law school lol. My first few months as a junior associate, I put my whole paychecks towards student loans. Paid it off within months. Very proud of that accomplishment.
I love my folks so I didn't mind.
Takes one to spot one. Clearly you are a basement dweller as well.
People need to realize that you are an honest american who works for his money. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anything you have, you deserve it all.
No. Everything you have you did not earn yourself. You have been able to garner the benefits of eight generations of Americans investing in a system that gave you a stable country, good schools, higher education, good roads, safety standards, police, ad infinitum. Could you make any kind of living doing whatever you do in Bangladesh? Did you create the industry that you have so benefited from? Did you discover something, engineer a product, build and entire distribution system, establish a currency for exchange, educate your own workers.....you stupid louse. You sound like every nouveau riche that I've ever dealt with. You struck it big and luck had nothing to do with it. Nobody accomplishes anything without help and a lot of investments by all of us. Some people are very handsomely rewarded for their ability to manipulate our system, others build things. Play the tape back any way you want to, if you don't factor luck and the wisdom of our past generations into your success, then you are either a fool or a liar.
I think anyone who is successful, if they were truly honest with themselves, would admit that luck played a role as well. In my case, it was going to the right schools and meeting my employers when they had a certain need that I could fit into perfectly. So sure.
Like I said earlier, the problem isn't that the opportunities are there for me to use, the problem is that not everyone gets the same opportunities. That is unfair and unjust, in my opinion.
And there is a distinction between those unfortunate people and those who had the opportunities and chose not to use them out of laziness, whatever. Those people I don't really care about.
Pretty sure the one percent pays a huge majority of the taxes that support society. How did you help me exactly?
I don't know, I don't claim to have helped you at all. You don't owe me anything.
On you team dude that wasn't directed at you
Oh, but the system that you are benefiting from was not built with current taxes. Instead, the taxes on our parents and grandparents were most important. Current tax dollars are spend on entitlements and investments for the NEXT generation. That is the people who are being screwed by this Libertarian nonsense. Can you imagine America with no public schools, no public universities, no safety net (social security or medicare)? Our consumer economy is predicated upon knowing that when they get older, they will have some assurance of security. Do you know how long you will live? How much you must save for adequate safety? Can you be 100% sure that your investments will not fluctuate and you will be left with nothing when you are elderly? You don't know what America was like before the New Deal, but just imagine being 67 with a history of diabetes and try going to your local health insurer for a quote. Get real. Like every utopia, yours is built upon a fairy tale.
It's a two way street, I think. The same grandparents and parents who built the system are also the same ones who are retiring and selling their retirement account stocks, which weighs down our stock market and are straining our entitlement programs that current workers can't sustain. The same grandparents and parents who are in power and racking up our frightening deficits that we and our children will be dealing with and starting wars that we will be paying for.
Life is risk, in the broadest sense. I'm fine with it.
You will be broke within ten years.
Welcome to McDonald's, may I take your order please? :)
I think you're being here is sparking good food for thought... but relatively speaking you seem like you speak from where your general tier of wealth/income reflects. The greater the wealth, the greater the lack of awareness. The true problem is being in a monetary system. It hinders our progress as a species.
How many cures disease, social issues, even just FEEDING people are withheld when it won't play well with capitalism? Every industry depends on the problems sticking around. And it's driving our planet into the ground.
We are ALL inherent to the planets resources and all deserving of basic needs. We don't really need money to do that. How'd we get here in the first place? It's the system and those in control of the system that cannot support the sharing of resources and therefore giving up what they've "rightfully been passed" /earned whatever.
Abundance is a terrible thing for capitalism.
Disagree. Your assumptions on capitalism perpetuating human problems/suffering all the time simply is not true. For example, some of my most successful investments (100-300% return) have been in alternative energy, namely natural gas and solar energy. As we approach the problem of peak oil and gasoline set all time highs well past $100 a barrel, my investments in alternative energies have skyrocketed. On top of that, I live in the Barnett Shale, natural gas drillers paid me over $30k in signing bonuses and several thousand dollars in monthly royalties since. Our entire region flourished with homeowners getting the same payments, people were provided with jobs that paid six figures to work on gas rigs, the drillers donated millions to cities and foundations and the arts.
My point? The free market and capitalism responded to high oil prices with a move towards alternative goods. Goods that are far better for the environment and put people to work. Big Oil has noticed, Exxon recently purchased XTO Energy, one of the biggest natural gas firms in the Barnett. Big Oil isn't trying to stifle alternative energies to keep their death grip on petroleum, they're leading the charge into alternative energy in may ways. Not because it's the "right" and "just" thing to do, because they recognize that's where the money is in the future. That isn't assumption, it's fact and history.
Same argument can be made for disease, there are dozens and dozens of drugs over the years that have been reapproved by the FDA to treat other diseases, offlabel uses, meaning the drug companies didn't want to invest all that R&D into a new product. AZT was around since the 60s and it became the drug of choice to treat AIDS. Bupropion's 2nd life for getting people off cigarettes, etc.
Big pharma's greed let them sell the same drug for other diseases, extending the profitability of their product. and it paid off. It isn't a warm and fuzzy story, but it's the truth. And we're better off for it.
Are there plenty of examples where self interest and corporate greed stifle progress? Of course, that's why we're all here. But to imply that self-interest and the common good are never teammates is silly. If only our government could incentivize this phenomenon more ...
Have you seen storyofstuff.com? It's a 20min quick view on the nature of how capitalism is destroying our planet, depleting our resources.
The amount of waste in the name of business is beyond cataclysmic. What if we have products built without cyclic consumption and planned obsolescence at the root of their creation?
And you mention the FDA? They are beyond corrupt and have caused insane suffering along with big pharma in the name of $$$. I only choose products that have NOT been approved by the fda tyvm!
Granted there are success stories because there are good people everywhere in every industry. But on a global scale, I'm sorry brother, capitalism is going to fail. And it's because it's based on a system that rewards dishonesty and always leads to monopolies and cartels. How many societies, villages, and other countries have we destroyed in the name of business? COUNTLESS! We have the most feared and despised political institution on the planet and all in the name of capitalism. You take monetary gain out of the equation and you see what people really put their energy into.
The reason why capitalism is the root problem, is because we have NOW the technology and advancements in science that can create more than abundance on this planet. We think there's not enough food to go around, not enough resources, but we have enough. We could build schools, healing centers... free energy systems, everything we could dream up... we have that technology NOW. We have the resources NOW. But come on, there will NEVER EVER be ENOUGH MONEY for all of that. Our survival as a species depends on moving beyond the competitive monetary paradigm. And human nature is not inherently greedy. It's learned behavior created by a system of perpetuated scarcity. It only exists in our belief systems.
Disagree. No incentive for innovation, no incentive for efficiency, no incentive for hard work. If it wasn't for self-interest, the new world would never have been colonized and we never would have landed on the moon.
We agree to disagree :)
Disagree :) It's a common belief about incentive. All greatest advancements in human history have never been due to monetary incentive.
I have quite an educational video set about the moon landing. Did you happen to know that the gov hired Stanley Kubrick for a mock moon landing filming? Done on the set of Space Odyssey. Just in case, they claimed. But then of course, they never used it hmm ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUOItuKm5UE
Natural gas is not an alternative investment- but people are lubed into believing it is. The very name 'natural gas', im sure was coined by a marketing strategist.
Semantics. It is a far cleaner and cheaper alternative to oil that we have plenty of under our feet. It is an alternative energy. If you want to get specific, it is a gateway energy source as we ween ourselves off of oil and towards solar, wind, etc.
greenwashing
[Removed]
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-war-with-america-was-won-before-the-first-shot/
Were you surprised with LSU's win last night?
Can I borrow a few hundred bucks?
What do you think about fractional reserve banking? Is that the problem?
I don't think it is. Fractional reserve banking is the best system when properly regulated. Without it, banks' profit making capability would be crippled and we'd have a system where we'd be paying them a lot higher fees for basic services like maintaining checking accounts, wire transfers, stock trades, etc.
You saw how everyone threw a fit over those paltry debit card fees. Imagine the uproar if we went to a full reserve system and banks started nickel and diming even more just to be able to stay in business. Silliness.
Hi onepercentguy, you are not really 1% just because you make $500K. You are just common man in 99% who is successful . 1% are those who pay to lobbyist in favour of cause that would indirectly hurt 99%. and 1% are also those in power who accepted money from the big corps to support their ill-motives. If you still think you are 1% post your story why you think so and I will ask you questions.
Can I have a job?
Did anyone see THAT letter from a Wall Street worker? Here's my response: http://www.tocamu.com/?page_id=5665
You're actually not the 1%. You're the 1.3%. My problem is really the .2% and the large corporations moving our jobs overseas and asking us to pay for their wars with our money and our blood.
The political system is broken. We have a corporatocracy.
I am actually in the minority who says we don't need to tax the $#$ out of corporations (maybe we need to lower the corporate tax in fact). We need to reduce the size of government and tax cap gains just like regular income.
Have you stopped laughing at all these hippies yet?
OPG, would you support a consititutional amendment limiting national legislators to 2 term limits? what about limiting campaign financing to $5 per entity/person, a la Arizona and Maine in their state elections?
No, I would not. Because it'll never pass and would be a waste of time, as are most constitutional amendment proposals that i've been asked about. If you don't like someone in power for so long, beat them at the polls. If everyone in OWS actually voted, we wouldn't be in this mess, imho.
I support comprehensive campaign finance reform, not necessarily that proposal.
will you be in DC on 6/16/12?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/
no, but i support such a march. this should have been occupyDC, not occupy wall street, imho
Good point, but I feel, fundamentally, starting with WS and then coming to DC, is at least a good start. Because, these guys are the keeping the movement alive and in the media; without, we wouldn't have the chance to bring back the G-S act, we only have a small window here, let's go thru it and at least this done!. what do you think? I'm an independent
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of domestic wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent of Americans already own nearly 1/2 of all US wealth. An all-time high. More than double their share before Reagan took office. The lower 90 percent of Americans own less than 10 percent of all US wealth. An all-time low. Still, the rich want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority. The rich have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans, saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively. The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated around 40% of all United States wealth. The upper class held around 30%. The middle and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.
Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, the lions share of United States wealth was gradually transfered back to the middle class. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. This was the recovery. A massive redistribution of wealth. Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own well over 40 percent of all US wealth. The lower 90 percent own less than 10 percent of all US wealth. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible. No redistribution. No recovery.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
God damn it. You die hard winner take all bloodthirsty capitalists and filthy rich pigs absolutely refuse to understand the following: First, that record high charges in health care, energy, and finance also mean record high profits and record high dividends. 1/2 of which are paid to the richest one percent. This causes more hardship and more concentration of wealth. At the same time, more financial aid in the form of welfare, Medicare, and Medicaid becomes necessary. Especially with those record high charges and profits. As even more wealth is concentrated, the lower majority go into debt and lose their relative buying power. This results in less demand, layoffs, and higher unemployment. This results in even more legitimate need for financial aid, a slower economy, less revenue, and higher national debt. It's a downward cycle tied directly to the relentless concentration of wealth.
I'm not making excuses for those who sit on the couch, make no attempt to find work, and sponge off the government. I'm not calling for a welfare state. But God damn it. You die hard conservatives and filthy rich pigs need to stop being such cowards, open your god damn eyes, and finally admit that there is a downside as more and more wealth becomes concentrated.
The richest one percent now own well over 40 percent of all United States wealth. The lower 90 percent now own less than 10 percent of all United States wealth. This is true even after you account for all taxes, charity, and financial aid. This equation becomes more obscene when you account for nearly two trillion in consumer debt which is owed primarily by the lower 90 percent. Mark my words: this equation will get worse.
THERE IS A DOWNSIDE AS YOU GET RICHER AND RICHER!
A word for my critics: I'm no expert but I'm no fool. I predicted this socio-economic crisis in writing 6 years ago. I'm aware of all the conservative and liberal talking points. Of course, I hate politicians. But I don't hate liberals or conservatives. I agree with both on some issues. For example: I agree that we need an adequate safety net for those in need. Not for those who sit on the couch and watch TV.I agree with tax cuts for small business. But not for Wall Street and not for those making $500,000 and up. A heavy concentration of wealth is what got us here. A gradual and partial redistribution of wealth is vital.
I don't want socialism, communism, or marxism. I want modest capitalism. A reasonable scale of income opportunity for all those willing and able to work. An adequate safety net for those in need.
A word for the rich: I have received quite a bit of negative feedback from you one percent club pigs. I must be doing something right. After all, you took time away from your money bath just for me. You might want to check your ass crack for soggy bills. In the meantime, let me just say this for the record:
You can't intimidate me. You can't embarrass me. You can't make me feel uneducated, unintelligent, or otherwise insignificant. You can't confuse me. You can't divert my attention. You can't exhaust me and you sure as hell can't break my will. I know I'm getting to you because you're here with another lame psychological trick. You're here in an attempt to shut me up. It won't work. I've had it with all of you.
I won't break any laws. I would never discredit the cause with a criminal act. But I'm telling you right now that I'm virtually impossible to stop. It's a big world and I have a lot to say. If you want to break my will, you're going to have to break my neck first.
If you pull a stunt like that, a lot of people will know what happened to me and why.
Now get out of my face. I have work to do.
My income varies as a small business, but generally we are considered in the top 5% I would guess. I wholeheartedly support OWS. My questions to you are: what percent of your income do you give to charities, and what type of health benefits do the employees in your firm receive? Finally, do you consider healthcare a human right - or an industry?
I'm not sure if I agree with the immigration stances being taken. We are talking about people who take typically the crap jobs no citizens in this country wants because the majority believe they are better than these positions and then we blame them (immigrants) for all of our economic problems? That I say is not fair and distorted. Are you aware that there are less people immigrating to this country illegally? The numbers are down. Also, we have more pressing issues that can be resolved if we work together and put our differences aside. One of these things is the corrupt tax code. All of these so-called "credits" and "exemptions" are really costing us more than if we did away with them all together and had a flat tax rate. I'd rather see more money in my check than taking a deduction on April 15th. I mean we pay taxes on goods and services, property, and various other local and state taxes, such as state income taxes. Then we have federal taxes that cover Social Security (that I will probably never benefit from) and income taxes. I work to pay taxes so corporations can skimp on them by pushing work oversees and utilizing foreign tax credits and other vehicles to delay or permanently not pay taxes. There is no reason why my meager income is taxed at 30% while a hedge fund manager is taxed at 10-15% on millions of dollars from speculating. Also, our social system structure is disastrous to say the least. Do I need to go on? Immigrants are not the issue, we live off of their backs, corporations and the politicians in their pockets are the problem.
Question: CEOs in this country make absurd amounts of money. If good decision making is that important that you would pay such a salary, why not hire twenty or fifty people at a hundredth the wage to make decisions about each specific aspect of the company, ruling by committee when necessary?
One explanation in mind: what percentage of that salary does the CEO actually plow back into off-the-books transactions - bribes, "contributions", criminal services etc.?
Simple, because CEOs of public companies in this country are accountable to their shareholders on a near daily basis. Shareholders want a clear vision, strategy and ultimately, accountability, when things go sour. There's zero accountability under your idea. Why would I want to put my money into a company where I don't know who is in charge and what his/her vision is. Why would I want to figure out who of the 20-50 people are responsible for the screw up when I can just fire them all and start anew?
I think you're being a little too paranoid. And from a management standpoint, there are 20 or 50 people making a fraction of the wage to run each specific aspect of the company - they're middle managers. It isn't about the money, its about accountability and clear, decisive decision making.
When you talk about "clear, decisive decision making" it makes me think of Steve Jobs who didn't want his computers to have an off switch. I believe all the good features in products come from the detail people; the bold ideas from the top are often just plain nuts and the employees and customers all know it.
Agreed, to a certain extent. Detail people are there to worry about the product. The suits are there to not screw the company up in the meantime, because without a great product, it doesnt matter who is in charge, you're not making money.
You are not the 1% get over yourself! The 1% would never accept YOU just like they would never accept Herman Cain. Yes they will use him, but will piss him out to dry once he is no longer effective. WATCH & LEARN as they do not give a shit about you!
I dont want to be accepted by them, so great :)
Personally I think that using 99% in regards to money is stupid, it was a knee-jerk slogan. 99% Could and should however, be used in reference to power in govt.
There are plenty of people who don't hate wealth here. I applaud your hard work and success. The reason I'm in support is the chance to reform the wasteful govt.
I learned a trade, and for reasons I don't fully understand considering that I was responsible and did good work, it failed....maybe if I were willing to move far from my family it would have. Maybe if as a woman I stopped trying to work in male oriented fields and went to get a nursing degree things would be better for me.
But I own my mistakes, and still abhor govt waste and corruption.
As a 60's Protestor, now Senior Citizen & Florida Supporter of OWS Manhattan may I suggest the following:
A 2nd offensive must be started, now that the weather will dwindle the numbers of outside participants. All citizens of conscience and support who work for corporate America (e.g., banking, big pharma, insurance, oil, police departments, political operatives, and any other major industry who impacts the quality of our lives) should start to divulge the "dirty little secrets of their bosses/industry" anonymously (e.g., deliberate and trained lies told to the public about products; violations of the law within their industry/company; cheating of the public with specific tactics; training designed to deceive the public, etc.).
We need to expose corporate America for who they really are...ONLY then will they start to bring some modicum of fair play to their dealings with the 99% of us. Much like http://wikileaks.org - JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS WILL ONLY COME BY EXPOSING THE WRONGS. It no longer is acceptable to say "I was just doing my job." If our supporters can understand this, all of the politicians and lobbyist in the country won't be able to stop this tide.
Terrible idea. The folks you are talking about with highly technical or confidential management decision information are probably bound to non-disclosure agreements as part of their employment, meaning they risk getting sued or worse if they disclose anything. And the idea of disclosing anything anonymously in the information age is absurd, corporations and their lawyers have an endless line of computer forensics teams to figure out who got the information out and how.
You are NOT in the 1%.
If you only make a half million a year, you are poor in America. This is about the people who make $150 million a year, just for being in the position to take a piece off the top of the major banks and corporations that buy politicians. You are not the one percent.
Capitalism,..when it pays me more,...to pay you less. That has to change.
hey onepercentguy, this is a really good thread that you started, thanx and thnx for keeping it alive.
If you only make 500k a year you aren't even close to one of the people being protested. Nobody cares about you. You're one of us. BTW. We are the 99% is really the 99.9% but that would look stupid on the sign. If you're not in the council on foreign relations or the business round table you're getting robbed just like us.
Why are you supporting OWS thru Soros?
What are zionist Jews up?????????????????????????????????????
Please OWS help me understand something. I agree with your cause... but WHY dont you side with Democrats, instead of hating all politicians? Isnt it clear the democrats are at least trying to redistribute wealth, and make the middle class successful. I'm lost... you could be so helpful here...
Please OWS help me understand something. I agree with your cause... but WHY dont you side with Democrats, instead of hating all politicians? Isnt it clear the democrats are at least trying to redistribute wealth, and make the middle class successful. I'm lost... you could be so helpful here...
I personally feel that our entire political system has become so entrenched with good ole boy cronyism that it has become entirely compromised. The health care debate is a most perfect example. While poll after poll confirmed that Americans want affordable health care for all, what we ended up getting was a reform package so watered down that it in fact did nothing to change the status quo. My own idea for repairing this is for us to start electing real life Americans and not professional politicians. The internet, I foresee, might just be an avenue for Americans of little means to conduct legitimate campaigns. This would require that we all start taking our vote seriously, and take the initiative to seek out and campaign for more scrupulous people with real integrity not just flash and glam.
I admit that I don't have the time to read all of the comments so I apologize if my comment rehashes what has already been debated.
So here is my situation I will be as brief as I can. 48 years old, and possessing many marketable skills. I have over 20 years experience as a gourmet chef. In the 80's this was a very lucrative position as Americans were only just becoming savvy gastronomically speaking. I was a kitchen manager earning roughly $35,000 annually, with full coverage insurance ( $22 every two weeks no deductible oldest daughters birth cost me $150 out of pocket ) with 2% profit sharing, and performance based quarterly bonuses. By the mid 90's, that same position was paying no better than $25,000 annually, and my insurance for two daughters and myself was $245 every two weeks with a $1000 deductible. As such I changed professions and became a stone mason making $16 an hour with no benefits. Then the illegal masons came to town ( masonry is a skilled trade ) and they were willing to work for $9 an hour. They could do this because they are willing to pack 3 dozen people into a 3BR trailer and eat little more than rice and beans. So, back to the kitchen for me. Once my daughters were grown I went back to school to become an OTR truck driver, and was able to make $2-3,000 per month. I discovered that I just wasn't cut out to be an OTR driver ( really sucks when things go bad at home and you're thousands of miles away ) so I started driving for a local asphalt company. While there ( 2005-2008 ) I learned to operate many types of heavy equipment from front end loaders to skid steers, backhoes to water trucks, jack hammers to infrared patch trucks. In 2008 I was making a base $18 an hour ( $27 when I worked on military bases ) when the economy tanked I would have had to take a $9 an hour cut in pay to keep working due to the fact that unemployment made it possible for my boss to find qualified workers willing to take that low pay. Now I am again in the kitchen as the head chef of a small microbrewery/restaurant making $400 a week salary.
I have worked hard my whole life, never sought or accepted anything more than a few months worth of food stamps when things were at their worst. I have an endless supply of marketable skills I have no retirement fund, no insurance, and live paycheck to paycheck. My plight is a direct result of 1% deciding that the accumulation of obnoxious levels of personal wealth far outweighed any and all concerns for those in their employ. Now ( again instead of any compassion for their workers ) many amongst the 1% are willing to spend hundreds of millions ( see Koch brothers and the Tea Party ) disparaging the American workers as shiftless, uneducated, lazy individuals looking for nothing but a hand out, while simultaneously using the poor economy as an excuse to further deflate wages and benefits.
So, here is my question and perhaps, considering your credentials, you can explain the intricacies I may be missing.
We in America share a consumer driven economy. As such it would seem to me that big business is cutting its own throat the more they deflate wages. If we 99% have no money we don't purchase and the economy stagnates. So where is the incentive to continue the wage disparity?
There isn't an incentive. I agree that such wage disparity is good for no one.
The current and past administrations have done nothing to deal with big business except when it pertains to lobbying and stimulus payouts. The stimulus packages passed by the Democrats were payoffs to their political buddies and radical unions. The money could have been better spent developing small businesses which actually create jobs. I am not saying that the Republicans are innocent in this fiasco but it was Obama who received a ton of support financially from Wall Street. The govenrment will never properly regulate big business with the powers that be. You can change that by voting for people who want to serve the nation rather than be served up with your hard earned tax money.
How do you make your money? Do you play by the rules?
I am an attorney, business owner and investor. Yes, but I also help make the rules.
and if you're not making better rules and bending every effort in your power to see that they get enforced, then you are part of the problem. If we had had the common sense reforms passed after the 1929 crash, and if they had been properly enforced, most likely this forum would not exist.
In short, 1% guy, nobody begrudges you your honest buck. OWS and most of the rest of us are objecting, finally, to the ill-gotten gains of the very few at the expense of the very many. Inequality in the US surpasses the rest of the developed world today. We don't even have equality under the law any more. You of all people should understand that.
First understand this: everybody works hard, and very few make a lot of money doing it. There are a few who don't work much, but that is not what OWS is or what it is about. If you're a good honest worker, then no one has any reason to complain about you. But be clear on this: your prosperity is not what OWS is about. Did you issue mortgages without disclosing all fees? Did you knowingly lend money to marginal borrowers, then sell the paper for profit, package them in worthless "securities," rate then AAA, and make a killing? Did you participate in the activities that have trashed the prospects of these mostly young protesters, many shouldering usurious student debt? Did you shell out trillions of taxpayer dollars to the criminals who did all this? If you don't understand that inequality in the US today is of historic proportions, then you need to study history.
The current and past administrations have done nothing to deal with big business except when it pertains to lobbying and stimulus payouts. The stimulus packages passed by the Democrats were payoffs to their political buddies and radical unions. The money could have been better spent developing small businesses which actually create jobs. I am not saying that the Republicans are innocent in this fiasco but it was Obama who received a ton of support financially from Wall Street. The govenrment will never properly regulate big business with the powers that be. You can change that by voting for people who want to serve the nation rather than be served up with your hard earned tax money.
I think that the change has to go much deeper than electing this or that candidate. I think that the last hope for preserving the US Constitution and the rule of law in this country lies in amending the Constitution to overrule the Citizens United Supreme Court decision and deny that money is speech, issuing harsh prison sentences to elite public and private sector wrongdoers, rescinding Presidential pardons for high officials guilty of crimes going back at least to Nixon, and more. In other words, it's time to clean house in the USA.
Are you people serious? Someone please explain to me what this is really about, and don't give me the talking points yada yada. I am a real person, who really works for a living, and who lives in the real world, and I want to know how so many people can be bamboozled into believing a bunch of lies. You should be occupying Washington D.C. Most of the people who you Occupiers don't like are legitimate, and have earned there money. Washington is who fed you guys a bunch of lies and promises, and I bet many of you support these same shysters that screwed you over, and tricked you into believing that you could have everything for nothing. I agree there is "some" greed on Wallstreet, but there is greed everywhere it is called human nature, and that is just life. I'm sure 99 percent of the protesters are greedy in some aspect or another and I could prove it. STOP being manipulated, STOP being useful idiots that will end up giving power to those who will make your current woes look like a "walk in the park" If anyone is willing to listen I will tell you the truth, I will show you who is to really blame, and I will give you an "actual" solution, not some hairbrained 99 versus the 1 percent nonsense that is nothing more than a propaganda tool. This is my first post, maybe if there is some sense here it will not be my last.
Have you read Wildfire:The Legislation that Ignited the Great Recession? You are probably one of the main characters. Your thoughts....
No, I have not.
You ought to check it out. It's on Amazon, and thank you for your response.
i have a question for you.
could you specify the pro and cons of our monetary-system?
we allow the banks to charge us interests for the very money we allow them to create out of thin air.
how does this benefit anyone except the banks?
and we allow them to pay interest on financial instruments we purchase. in terms of monetary policy, its the federal reserve that prints money out of thin air. if anything, with rates so low now thanks to the pro-growth, pro-investment policies of the fed (to very weak results so far), banks don't really want our deposits. they're not lending as much so they cant generate nearly as much profit on our deposits. hence my amusement at the calls by occupiers to withdraw deposits from the big banks. you're doing them a favor.
The banks don't create money out of thin air, the Federal Reserve is who prints money. The banks charge those who borrow from them interest, but they also pay interest to those that invest in them typically via checking and savings accounts. The reason the bank pays interest on you savings and checkings account is because they then use that money as capital to loan money to other people who they then charge interest. The whole problem came, because the bank was making those loans to people who could not pay them back, because the government leaned on them to do so, and admittedly because some were greedy. However, the federal reserve printing money is a huge problem and every dollar they print to pay for promises that politicians make and knew they could not keep makes every dollar YOU have worth that much less. That is a whole other conversation in itself.
Hey brother can uspare a dime?
This is probably the most important thing to consider...capitalism demands a certain level of poverty, unemployment, crime, and general disparity between people. Not everyone can be rich...not everyone can be employed, not everyone can be educated (college level), not everyone innocent person stays out of jail, etc etc. One simple example....if we had 1% unemployment and everyone made at least $50k per year...a loaf of bread would cost $200 (not perfect math, but you see my point. Capitalism creates externalities that in turn cause misery for those who will never come out of poverty, no matter how hard they work or save.
curious how you made your money 1percent? I am in the real estate industru and made money while it was up and continue to make money while it is down. Always interested in how creative minds work.
www.asusoeff.com
Hi, I have some ideas. Please read my two posts, 'IT'S TIME' and 'Reconstructig the social/economic structure'. Let know what comes to mind after reading them. I haven't directly outlined my idea but give a supportive view on large-scale changes. Writing out my ideas in full would require a lot more time, diligence and about 600 loose-leaf pages. Instead, in Light of this forum, I prefer to share my idea through questions and friendly debate.
I will read them. Where are they? Can you in someway link them here?
Also:
Restructuring the global social/economic structure Today we live in a global society structure that runs like a complex machine, a clockwork; analogous even to an organism. A system of complex networks of communication, transport, cultivation, distribution of resources, etc. This system was devised some time ago for the benefit of mankind. It worked well, insofar as it's ability to raise the standards of living for a portion of the human population. Industry has bequeathed on us, both salvation from the unrelenting struggle for survival for some, as well as a life indistinguishable from slavery, wrought with poverty for others. So why should I care? If I don't belong to the latter group. One reason might be because, if we use the analogy of an organism, efficiency and effectiveness require that the system as a whole regard it's individual parts equally in order to perform at it's full capacity or potential. Take a cheetah for instance, if the internal structure of the organism was fighting with itself for resources, and say, the muscles won the fight over the lungs for extra food, we would be left with an organism unable to perform because its muscles expanded while reducing the lung capacity to provide enough oxygen. Hence an organism that, overall, performed worse than the one we started with. This simple example illustrates how human society, as a whole, operates much like an organism and is therefore subject to the same parameters required for survival. If we expect human 'society' to survive, we are forced to recognize the requirements this survival depends on. Now, a paradigm-shift. Just as single-celled organisms evolved from individual survival tactics, to community structures for mutual benefit and protection, (all the while competing with eachother), to a miraculous transition - they discovered a way of networking communication across vast numbers of themselves and in it, discovered a sense of unity that bore the first emergence of a multi-celled organism. We as humans are now at the stage where we get to decide; do we unite, and together become something greater than any individual can achieve, or do we fall prey to competition, devouring everything in our path, including our competitors?
A Proposal How do we take what we have and make it something we "All" can, more or less, happily live with? Perhaps the time has come for the next major transition in the development in human civilizations. We have the opportunity, if we stand together, to put an end to poverty, an end to hunger, and most importantly an end to the blatant disregard for human liberty and the environmental disposition of our planet. What I propose is to re-create our system of government and not simply to change policy or elected officials. The Occupy Wall Street movement is giving us a unique opportunity to make changes far greater than any protest has ever bestowed upon us. What we can achieve through a global coalition of protesters can mark history with a point where our grandchildren will look in their history books to this day and say, "this is how our world was saved. This is a testament to the courage and conviction of our ancestors that brought equality, liberty and justice to us all." This is my aim. This is my goal. I personally believe In the human race. I know we are all individually different yet believe we share more similarities than differences. If we work together, if we work for each other, we will wake to the day when the single-celled individual human being stops competing with its fellow individuals and unite to form the first emergence of the multi-celled united human race.
I have just read this. I agree OWS has provided an opportunity but It is still unclear what that opportunity is. I am not as enthusiastic about OWS as you seem to be. There is a long way to go and much work to be done before there is any prospect of real change.
Yes of course, I agree. I guess I'm optimistic for three reasons. One, attitude is contagious whether it's positive or negative. People are usually swayed fairly easily by a speaker's attitude on any subject if his discourse is powerfully emotional. Or at the very least, signs of empathy start to appear. Two, any movement in history that has accomplished any real change took years from the onset of that movement. And this from it's onset, is the largest global movement I think the world has ever seen. Three, I am not only a spiritual man but predominantly scientific. Both views point in the direction of progress. Spiritually, I feel the conscious condition is broadening. We are becoming more aware, which echoes spiritual beliefs from all walks of life (if viewig from the common denominator perspective of all of them). Scientifically speaking, evolution is nowhere near finished and in terms of human beings, what else can we evolve but the mental faculties of human consciousness. Which to me, point in the direction of ethics, compassion, cognitive reasoning, comprehension, etc. I know my spiritual/scientific views seem perhaps the same, but the distinction is in their perspective view. Which is important to note because each perspective offers something to the human senses we seem to inherently crave or need.
I re-thread IT'S TIME as This is what NEEDS to be addressed. Here it is.
Put simply, I believe the whole movement worldwide needs to be centered on the FACT that in a democracy the people are in charge. Government officials need to be reminded that they are not our RULERS but our SERVANTS. Even the title CIVIL SERVANT implies the obvious; an admission entitling them to 'authority' in the 'service of civilians'. This does not give them power over us but grants them distinguishable rights that provide authority to serve the voice of society as a whole. It would seem to me that, we the people, feel the voice of these servants no longer echoes our voice, if indeed it ever has. We are met with disdain for our claim to freedom. Our governments would prefer we keep our noses out of our own business - a fools errand. We are the business, we are the consumer, we are the links in this vast network of supply and demand. The world belongs to us, to all of us. Not just a squandered few who through beauraucratic deployment ASSUME ownership over the material goods and resources of this world. I for one stand by the notion that, given the opportunity, freedom and education, we would prove to our elected officials that a true democracy would outshine the dismal glow provided by imperialism and the competition of capitalism. I'm not talking about abolishing the entire infrastructure we've come to depend on. Rather, to take the system we have in place and adjust its paradigm, which would in turn change the way in which we utilize the infrastructure of civilization. I have ideas for this, as I'm sure many others do as well. Let us cooperate and comprimise. What do you make of what I've said so far? Even though there is still so much more to say. Where do we go from here? Thank you.
I would need to know a great deal more of the "still so much more to say" to make an intelligent response to what you have expressed here. But let us make a start on understanding each other and see how far we can go. Lets start with democracy as your first point is centered on that. It would be difficult to imagine this term never being contested particularly in any sort of democracy. OWS is a good example of how democracy means different things to different people. My understanding of how OWS works is that decisions are made through consensus. No action is able to be codified unless there is an overwhelming majority in the General Assemblies, at least in NY. At some other occupation sites the assemblies appear to be more problematic and sometimes there has not been enough of a commitment to even hold a discussion. But OWS is at least 'formally' committed to a process that is 'more' democratic than the present democratic institutions that prevail in the West. OWS is contesting what democracy has come to mean in the West. Now besides this contest there are undoubtedly arguments about what real democracy is among those participating in OWS. So, we need to do what really should be done regularly in any form of society, institution or discourse claiming to be democratic. We need to answer the question: what does democracy mean? If democracy only amounts to the type of representative government we have at present then our representatives are serving, "the voice of society as a whole". Democracy needs to be more than representative government for this not to be so. Therefore, what do you mean by democracy? What do I mean by democracy? What is democracy? This is the discussion that we need to have to begin with.
What you say reads a lot like something I imagine Socrates saying, as he was an advocate of the limitations of verbal communication. I'll point out that I ended my post with, "Still so much more to say," primarily because of the limits on the length of each post but also my available time to write. So in order to yield a discussion, ill begin with agreeing that words need be well defined before a discussion can move forward. In terms of the one in question, 'democracy', I would describe as this: democracy is the act of deliberation between a collective of individuals whose sole function is to arrive at a consensus. Given this definition, to me, democracy lays the basic ground work for humans to collectively strive for things that would otherwise be impossible for individuals to accomplish. In this way, working together, cooperating instead of competing, provides a fulfilling life that promotes the basic human need of acceptance, creativity, and purpose.
I would like to be more specific to the present situation with my definition of democracy. At present OWS has an idea of what democracy is. As yet there has not been much articulation of ends coming out of what they are doing. Perhaps they are concentrating on the means at present. They are trying to be more democratic than the Government. But both have claims to being democratic. This is part of the contest and how democracy's meaning is contested. One pertinent question for those who are for democracy is: which is more democratic? The many competing claims of 'being democratic' today calls for a refinement of what we mean by democracy. None of the formal arrangements of democratic governments have proved enough. My definition is: real democracy is becoming more democratic. This is how we can tell whether something is democratic: its democratization of itself. It is a work in progress, our work too. So whilst democracy promotes acceptance, creativity and purpose we need to develop democracy. So how do we become more democratic?
There is no short answer for this because any short answer falls short of incorporating everything necessary to achieve that end. First and foremost, I believe democracy requires educated, rational and patient people. Education being the most important because a good education provides the means to be rational and patient. So for starters, a complete remodeling of the education system.
For the time being, I think the best we can hope for is to remodel a few facets of modern society that provide a stable foundation for democracy. The first being education, as I mentioned, followed by transparency in politics, including but not limited to, the budget and funding allocations. Also I should have mentioned earlier in education, the education of adults in parenting skills. What else provides the foundations for democracy? I've been up long hours working and supporting this cause. My brain is a little slow today. Can you offer any suggestions?
If you are actively involved in OWS then I will try to remember that you have work to do and need rest and recuperation. I am not actively involved yet. I am reserving my judgment. One of the reasons for this is the lack of ends to OWS. It has been good at attracting support but not very good at developing a solidarity that essentially knows enough to be able to work change. It is early days yet but the market economy is very good at working masses. It is big on crazes, fads, bubbles, frenzies, media storms, marketing ploys, latest things and must haves. There is an enormous amount of stuff to get sold in a market economy so it depends on such things to turn product over. OWS needs to be different: it needs to be mindful of how easily it is to grow big very quickly and become a passing fad. It needs to develop adequate ends to get beyond the superficiality of the market economy. In short, the real problem I have with OWS is it is not revolutionary enough. I think this is reflected in your posts. You have obviously been engaged by it. That is a good thing. That does OWS and you credit. There is this new feel to politics. There is new enthusiasm. But there is not much else. Real practical solutions need to be developed not simply sentiments that show your heart is in the right place. As for education, science and spirituality these things have long been capitalized and commodified. Most teachers and scientists are busy now shaking their tail feathers to the highest bidder and priests have always done this. Education, science and spirituality are in desperate need of revolution. Nothing much is going to change taking those slow roads. The problem is systemic and they are part of the system. So again, how do we become more democratic? The first step is to know our present predicament especially as we want to go beyond it. The world is at capitalism. What is capitalism?
I have a solution; one that would benefit the whole of mankind... Including the 1%. And I'll admit it's as revolutionary as they come. It falls nothing short of a utopian society and the best part of my solution is its plausibility. I only wish I could have 30 days at a UN conference with worldwide media coverage. I say 30 days, to allow ample time to produce the paradigm-shift necessary for a change of this scale.
Without getting into all the finer details, allow me to paint a general picture. First things first, everyone needs their basic needs for survival met as well as gainful employment. In order to accomish this every country needs to build a national database comprised of every citizen (their general info, education, skills acquired, desired aspirations and the like), every business (their current employees, job listings, inventory, sales records, and the like), and a detailed inventory of available resources. With this information all compiled into one database, software is designed to redistribute all relevant work involving all currently unemployed people. At first many new jobs can be created since the primary goal in the beginning is for everyone's needs to be met - more housing developments, redistribution of food, clothing and transport vehicles. Also, recycling programs are a large part of employment as recycling would no longer be an option, it's mandatory (this is important because resource management is crucial today). As people get settled into their new life where these basic needs are not a question but a certainty, we begin shifting the scope of work from providing basic needs to broadening the automation industry. This again provides much for us to do. We need education to focus on this need at this point. Our aim now is to automate all the menial jobs people hate doing because it offers nothing of their creative or skillful faculties. Eventually, as these jobs get automated, hours worked per person is reduced. In a capitalist society, this isn't always a good thing. Fortunately, this isn't capitalism. So here we are at a position where everyone's basic needs are met, everyone takes part in providing work (delegated by need, skill and the preference of each individual). In a society like this there is no desire for mass production and the pushing of products to maintain economic growth. Instead, every product is manufactured using the most efficient production methods and the highest quality materials available. This way we build as little as possible, hoping our products last as long as possible - because everyone wants to work less. In time, we can have people custom design their products online, allowing creativity to grow in the consumer market. At this point automation continues to climb its way through the ranks, taking over more and more jobs. In this society automation is a heaven-sent. Eventually we arrive at a global society that provides for everyone, manages resources responsibly, education and health care are universal (mind you, these institutions have been radically remodeled. More on that in another post). I know it's feasible to make claims of providing for everyone for two reasons: 1. People don't normally take into accout how much we waste, which could have been used instead. As well as the increase in efficient production in quality products. 2. Everyone is participating in the effort and happily might I add because we've managed to take away the stresses caused by uncertainty in finances, shelter, food, clothing and transportation. So that's the basic version without all the technical detail in actual transitions. Also its only a small part of all that comes with a complex society. I have much more than this. I have thought about most frames of societal structure and how they fit into this new paradigm. I simply don't have enough space to write them all out here.
It is good that you are thinking about these things but the question was what is capitalism? It was a very awkward question admittedly but to change something, at least for the better, it is best and most practical to know what it is that you want to change. No one is going to be able to go beyond capitalism unless most people understand what it is. So, firstly someone has to know what it really is and secondly be capable of making others realize it. Many of the things you want to see happen are already happening and happening under capitalism and because of capitalism: recycling is now an industry; there is massive redistribution of food, clothing, health, technology etc, there are massive banks of all kinds of data and there is the UN. And capitalism already produces far more than can be consumed. Capitalism creates enormous problems but it also creates responses to those problems and both are very profitable so the responses are unlikely to ever eradicate the problems which makes good economic sense if the economy remains capitalist. I think you need to start reading Marx. Marx wrote mainly about capitalism. He wrote about its complexity, beauty, dynamism, historic necessity, its contradictions and use by date. He was the first to realize we needed to know it fully to be able to go beyond it. He did not write much about socialism or communism and most of what he did write was scathing criticism of their Utopian versions and perspectives. Because they are not revolutionary. You need a Marxist perspective and OWS needs Marxist critique. I think you need to be more grounded.
I have read Marx. To answer your question, 'what is capitalism'? My short answer is, capitalism is the competitive pursuit of capital through the principle of a free market system. Competition here is seen as a good thing and perhaps in some ways it does provide incentive. But the point I illustrated much earlier using the metaphor of single-celled organisms is that we as humans act much like them. I felt it might be time for the human race to evolve from the COMPETITION similar to single-celled organisms to the COOPERATION of multi-celled organisms. In a multi-celled organism, no cell competes with another. The 'whole' cooperates. In this, a body much greater than any individual emerges, providing capabilities never possible before. Now to come back to some of your comments about capitalism. Many of the things I want to see are not happening under capitalism. You are correct that these infrastructures have been created by capitalism and I applaud capitalism for creating it. But capitalism still holds back our potential because we compete through these industries as opposed to cooperating through these industries. Recycling is a huge industry but it recycles less than 10% of all recyclable materials. Food, clothing, etc, etc, are distributed but not equally because it's competitive not cooperative. I like the comment you made, "capitalism already produces far more than can be consumed" - thats exactly what im getting at. We are wasteful. We dont cooperate. We over stock our grocery stores and throw massive amounts of food away, while others are starving to death. When i said, "redistribute" i was referring to reallocating these over produced resources to those who need them. Instead of being so irresponsibly wasteful. There are databases of information the world over, which I am well aware of and I designed what I said earlier based on the fact that I know many of the systems already exist that provide a foundation for us to build a unified system. The only thing is, we HAVEN'T unified the system yet. We keep it segregated, divided, because it suits capitalism to do so.
It is good that you have read Marx. Marx too used metaphors from the physical sciences and not much good has come of this for Marxism. Marx probably had more of an excuse because when he was around, Darwinism was in the air and it was a revolutionary perspective then. Also, Marx was engaged in the education of cadre. As anyone involved in education should know, to induct someone into any discipline you have to dumb things down before they can begin to contribute. I don't think we have an excuse for resorting to metaphors or analogies from the sciences to illuminate what is human. Science is only one of the stories we make up for our convenience and to science's credit there are still some practicing scientist who can emphasize the presumptions and arbitrariness it is based on. I suspect most scientist would be scandalized by the truth that we are making science up as we go along. Most scientist use science as an excuse to not think much and this explains how easily it is co-opted by investors.
Following on from my previous post about what capitalism has done and in response to your response, we have already unified the system. This is what globalization is. I say "we" because if you have read Marx you should know capital is the accumulated surplus labour of workers. Out of the wealth that they create their wages are paid as is profit, interest, rent, tax and out of these revenues the whole parasitic layer is financed including of course all economists whose major task it is to put people out of work and all the ideologues whose only task is to control thought so this truth can't be known. The world is already unified. There is not a border, or a space, or a skin, or a mind that has not been penetrated by the flow of capital. And this is all workers' doing. At least if you agree with Marx. I suspect most workers know they are responsible for the present state of the world. They do all the work so it would be surprising if they did not know they do all the work. The problem is they only know this intuitively or in isolation. It is almost a secret they keep. They don't know enough about how the system works to know it together. This was where Marx came into it. It is why he concentrated on exposing what capital really is: it is the wealth that workers create that is then turned against them. Workers are responsible for the present state of the world. Revolution happens when they take this responsibility and turn it to good effect. It is like the 'power of the people': it is a permanent condition. The only thing that kept Mubarak afloat was the people's complying with an existing regime. Mubarak was their doing. The only thing that got rid of him was their determination to finally take responsibility for it.
You seem to be more focused on making a speech at the UN. It is not that I don't think you could make a good speech. It is that the UN has heard it all before. The UN is a place designed for hearing and making speeches. In fact there is a market in great speeches now: they are on CD and there is one from JFK and Martin Luther King jnr and Churchill and probably Obama. All this is a good indication that speeches have had their day. They were always suspect because for a good speech you need people to be quiet, not butt in and preferably be only bums on seats: the last thing you need for a revolution.
What needs to be done is more work than what is required in making a speech. We need to realize humanity. That is a work in cooperation, not becoming a personality.
I don't think it is literally a 1% vs 99%, liberal vs conservative, democrat vs republican. People are tired of being screwed over by a political/financial system that incentivizes fraud without accountability, forces bailouts/handouts on the backs of the 99.99% in a corrupt, "de-regulated", over-leveraged, and unfair system, that inevitably leads to a huge disparity in purchasing power and the ability to be heard politically (until it all collapses). Why is it okay for Bank of America to literally dump their crap on our heads, etc? http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/10/bank-of-americas-death-rattle.html
"The Quiet Coup The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has effectively captured our government—a state of affairs that more typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many emerging-market crises. If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time."
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/7364/
2009 article and still applicable today
You've done well for yourself. Great job. Are you shoveling that money at politicians in exchange for taxpayer bailouts? No? Then we are not against you in any way and only wish for your continued sucess.
2 Questions: 1) Would you be willing to have 100% of your income, including capital gains, taxed at the same rate as "earned income", i.e. as a person who works for wages does. 2) Would you be willing to pay the FICA and Medicare taxes on 100% of your income, including capital gains income, above and beyond the $106.000.00 yearly cap?
No, because that means I would be paying more for capital gains. I believe higher rates on capital gains for everyone would discourage capital investments.
No, I would not be willing to pay FICA on 100% of my income. But I would be willing to pay an amount more than what I'm paying now, I would support higher limits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PJ-fvCEd4U
"fell free to reach me on twitter @1percentguy" ???
nobody making the kind of money you describe would take the time to make a new twitter account and spell "feel" wrong
hope you get the troll following you were after...good luck
Ask you anything ??? Here are three questions I asked you two days ago. 1. In two hundred words or less tell us what Senetor Dod stands for and how you feel he is right or wrong. 2. Tell us how many total dollars did the Senate committee on banking take in campaign contributions from the banking lobby in 2010?
Let me guess, you are a lawyer.
One percent guy, I applaud you for posting here and inviting everyone to have a dialogue with you on these important issues facing our country. We need to be civil with each other. The churn of the internet can foster anger, hate and disinformation. Since anyone can publish anything, it is very hard to get lost and not know what is real or what is not. In principle I agree with the overall cause of the Occupy Wall Street protests. I am very sympathetic to the struggles of everyone in our society who work so hard and not able to make ends meet. This is not the American dream our great forefathers wanted for this country. Unfortunately though, I have become disenchanted as so many here want to blame and complain. It's very easy for all of us to find a common enemy, history has shown that societies look for a simple solution and find one common enemy to blame. I ask that everyone here realize that we are dealing with difficult issues which are driven by interlinked factors. Blaming the 1% can feel right, but are they the real reason many of us are struggling? Lets face it, we all want to attain the American Dream, that is why we live in this country and it is the best country in the world to allow such opportunity, so please don't all forget this. If we are going to fix this country, whether it is via dialogue with those like yourself, or others, we all need to come to consensus on what are the root problems and come to our government leaders with suggested solutions. That is what I hope Occupy Wall Street can become...a force for positive action and reasonable change. I believe we need campaign finance reform. Political leaders should not be bought. Most got into government because they believed in helping our country, but the system has corrupted them. I believe that lobbying of political leaders by business is wrong. In the company where i work, i am not allowed to accept a gift from a vendor, it would be conflict of interest. Our political leaders must hold to the same values. I believe we need federal regulations that hold banks and or individuals accountable for irresponsible behavior. I believe we need leaders who represent the people in their communities and states first, in the end businesses come and go, but they are only a shadow without the people to run them. I believe we must have separation of church and state. I believe we need serious tax reform in this country. I believe we need to put child education and our support of our teachers as a highest priority for our country, we are eroding our future if kids are not able to get good educations. I believe we need a reformed healthcare system, one where people on all sides are not gaming the system. I believe we need a country which can grow, foster and protect it's manufacturing base. How do we do this when capitalism fuels a need for companies to use the lowest cost producer. I believe our leaders need to plan strategically for the long term interest of our country and have the hard talks when we need to hear them. What do all of you believe? Let's solve the problems in our great America, not fuel it with anger and hate!
From what I understand you are actually in the group that should be most pissed off. From what you wrote it sounds like your income is derived from work, not from capital gains. This means that income is taxed at a 35% tax rate. After all of your deductions, my guess is that your applied tax rate is somewhere in the mid to high 20% range (maybe even low 20% if you have a great accountant).
This would put you at one of the higher applied tax rates in the country. My question is "Does it bother you that the people who make more than you pay a much lower applied rate?" Those who attain the majority of their income from capital gains as opposed to work are taxed at 15%. This is before there deductions.
No, capital gains comprises a noticeable amount of my income, especially in earlier years before my most recent pay hike. And they will only grow as I make more and more money and I invest more of it. Not by choice, mind you, my stop loss orders executed en masse during every sustained pullback in the economy post '07. If it were up to me, we would have slower, sustained growth and I'd still be holding onto my unrealized gains.
No, it does not piss me off. I would not oppose lower capital gains taxes as they would encourage more investment as opposed to saving in cash. I do oppose proposals that eliminate all capital gains taxes while compensating for the lost revenue by placing regressive taxes that punish the poor, who consume a far larger share of their income than the rich do i.e. the herman cain national sales tax.
I think it is important to remember that 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending. As the tax code has helped direct money to the top 1% they have been left without people to buy their products. Distributing the tax burden is not just about what is right and just, but also about what is economically efficient. I would say that we have passed the point of efficiency and need to slide the rates to enable the working class of America to once again be the driving force of this economy,
Thanks for representing the 1% in a respectable manner. There don't seem to be too many out there that do and it's worrisome. My view on all this isn't that we want to be the 1%, the 1% are entitled to their money that they worked hard for. I just don't want to have to struggle to eat,pay for rent, or pay for gas when I work just as hard.
I think that many people were predisposed to financial success if they have made it to the top with the economy the way it is. When did you hit the 1% mark? I really don't think many people have gone far with their careers within the last 4 years. Especially not new graduates. It's not a good time to try and be the best since there is a lot of financial adversity.
Two years ago, when I made partner. Not that I was starving before.
Agreed in that I believe no one should be struggling to pay for basic necessities if they work every bit as hard as I do. It comes down to providing equal opportunities for all, regardless of status or background, and those folks choosing to take advantage of those opportunities.
Disagree with the perception that not too many or most 1% dont represent themselves in a respectable manner. Overwhelming majority that I know personally and do business with are generous, community minded people like I am. Perhaps their unwillingness to engage OWS feeds into the perception that they are uncaring. I don't blame them for not doing so, there's no point trying to reason with a mob that will hate you no matter what you say or do. Anything positive you say to defend yourself will probably be construed as being self-serving or crass.
In fact, the internal pressure from other wealthy people to be philanthropic is quite intense, at least in my circles. When people hold fundraisers, they don't call strangers, they call their acquaintances and friends. The rich call their rich friends and pester them until they open their wallets. I see it all the time.
Charity is always good and should never been seen as anything else. But charity is just a band-aid. What people want most is for people to take risks and hire employees, to employ people in the US and to pay them livable wages. Right now, in my personal situation, I can't find the right work to pay for my outrageous student loans. And I went through school the thrifty way, sadly.
I agree on all points. I'm not saying charity excuses the systemic issues needing to be addressed with the widening wealth gap, I'm just responding to the comment that wealthy people are inclined to not represent themselves well. Those that I do know represent themselves quite well, I think. But that's just my POV.
I'm sure they do. Just not to the people that count right now. What you're doing is really great. Offering suggestions and listening to concerns.
I can understand that 1%'ers are afraid of being thrown into a barrage verbal abuse. But they have the upper hand in that they aren't desperate and angry like the 99%'ers. If they can be patient, turn the other cheek when people act rude, and answer questions honestly I think there could be a solution.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there falsely representing the top %1 like Foxnews who have called protesters disgusting, and political figures like Herman Caine who have essentially called people lazy. And that is the worst way to be represented.
I think more of you should get out there and show that you are empathetic people and not greedy money monsters.
Well, I'm here. It's a start, i suppose.
I hope your courageousness to communicate will be contagious. Thank you, and I really mean it. :)
Your not in the 1% unless you make over $1 mil a year by the way. Probably closer to around 8% mark.
http://americansforsafeaccess.org/downloads/ASA_v_Holder.pdf *ASA has filed a Federal lawsuit on behalf of Ms. Carmel Mireles a member of our collective.
*MMJ Freedom Rally Chico,Ca Courthouse 11-11-11
Good,
But if you invest in companies that screw the American people...then it gets crazzy for u (: aka occupy wallstreet!!
Our approach has always been to not talk about money or how much you have, its just shows no class. People with millions should be more aware of the current climate and not throw their money pile out there for all to see. Be wise with your cash....it wont last forever. Always be investing in new markets with unmarked potential. Medical marijuana is one avenue for you to explore.
Be Well, Organic Roots
www.organicrootsdelivery.com
www.organicrootsdelivery.com
I would invest in medical marijuana if there wasn't so much uncertainty over its regulation i.e. the contradiction between state and federal laws. With the uncertainty, the feds can just swoop in whenever they choose and kill the company. Too risky.
Most of my money is invested with Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway. Several of its subsidiaries could be viewed as "screwing" the American people. I also have been steadily buying more stock in the big banks this summer as they pull back. And we all know how you guys feel about them :)
Currently building positions in shares of Wells Fargo and JPMorgan, in particular.
You mean the bottom 1% ?
Hi 1% guy-
You and I seem to have the most commented-on posts. I'd be interested in what you think of my post:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/tax-system-insures-that-bottom-50-holds-le-than-1-/
(I'm more likely to find your opinion if you add your comments to my post.)
No thank you.
Interesting. My financial situation is much like yous. I would think you'd have an opinion.
Not really. Civil discussion and dialogue is great, but to entice me with your comments on my posts in exchange for my comments on yours seems strangely attention-starved. No offense.
This from someone who posts his top 1% financial info on-line? No offense. See you (perhaps only figuratively) on Wall Street. I'll be holding the sign - and not because I'm attention starved.
lol. suit yourself.
When 99% succeeds you will continue to keep what is yours not more.
What do you think about the SEC's lack of prosecution of the upper echelon of financial corporations that have been found guilty of betting against their own interests after selling them as sound investments? So far, the SEC has only targeted "low hanging fruit" for prosecution and has not indicted the leadership of these investment firms.
Why Dick Fuld is not in federal prison right now is a complete mystery to me. They should all be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Why Schapiro and Holder are not going after these guys guns blazing is infuriating. If they did so, OWS probably would not be happening.
I do not need to ask you anything I see and hear nothing but 1%ers on TV 24/7 your overkill dude and you time is running out!
You are not a member of the 1%. You are a solid member of the 99%.
These classifications are not necessarily income related. They are references to the amount of wealth (assets - debts) that you own. You stated that you have $2 million in assets. Do you have a mortgage or mortgages, car loans, credit card debt? To be a member of the 1% you must have assets worth more than $19 million (and that is the 2007 figure). With only a mere $2 million, you did not even make the top 10%. The average net worth of the next 9 percent of Americans was $2,371,500 (in 2007).
Check out this link http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/about-that-99-percent/
onepercentguy, I'll catch you down ta Zuccotti Park?
No one should be paying any more taxes than they do now, Government spending is out of control. This should not be a rich against poor or middle class fight. The Federal government has become one big cancerous tumor for all of us. I have a successful manufacturing corporation (made in USA) and am close to the 1% but support the Occupy movement and the 99%. It's about social and moral principals. We need to work together. Our government is too big and controls too much. Local and state governments need to take back their control. Capitalism can work and industry and jobs can return to the USA. It's great that you make $500K a year, but SOME corporations have really taken advantage of their workers and really have only have a goal to boost up their stock value at any expense. Moral Capitalism should be our goal. Peace...Love...Harmony...We are all on this little rock together floating around in this vast universe! There is a larger purpose that we all do not understand...
Yes. I wish there was a way to incentivize moral capitalism more.
Our firm tries to. Our attorneys perform thousands of pro bono (free) legal services for the indigent every year. We donate close to a million dollars a year to community and education programs.
Some will say one million isn't enough considering how much revenue we generate. I agree.
I don't think it's federal government alone. Huge corrupt corporations lobby and fuel campaigns. As a result our federal government is filled with political puppets who are force to compromise the nations best interest. Both Wall St. and the Federal government are cancerous but they are also vital parts of this nation that can't simply be cut out. Removing one or the other can will simply destroy this nation. We must CAREFULLY identify and remove what is corrupt and swiftly replace with what is needed.
I hear the housing market is going to pick back up on 2012, and based off the work of Rogoff It may very well occur. What do you think i should look for on the housing market??
I don't know. I'm not a seasoned residential real estate investor, nor am I a realtor. I think that if you're already looking for a house and can afford a larger than typical down payment, then you'll probably get a great steal right now. Rates are so absurdly low. And while we are definitely in a growth slowdown, the calls for recession are silly. The economic indicators just dont show it.
You're not the 1%
The 1% are those that make way over half a billion annually. Pretty much those that can get away with murder and genocide because they have more greens than the people they killed.
The 1% is not necessarily income related. It refers to wealth which are assets minus debts. But you are right that he is not in the 1%. With only $2 million in assets, he is most certainly not in it. in 2007 the 1% had assets of almost $20 million.
To consistently be earning over 1M per year I think gets you in the club
No, it does not. It is not about income. It is about wealth -- meaning the value of all of your assets minus debts.
If you ean $30 million a year and spend $30 million a year and do not own anything, you are no more a member than someone earning $36,000 a year. To qualify as a 1% member in 2007 one would have had to own almost $20 million in assets.
So the average news ancor could only be a 1%er if he or she saved alot?
The average news anchor does not make enough. If you are talking about the top news anchors, yes, they could join the club so long as their debts did not preclude them.
I was just going by what that brilliant mind of Pierce Organ said to Michael Moore on CNN the other night when they were discussing the OWS.
I just looked that up. I understand what you are saying. According to Pierce Morgan, all one need do to enter the 1% is to earn more than $1 million a year.
The number of people making more $1 million or more soared by more than 18 percent from 2009, according to th the Social Security Administration, citing payroll data based on W-2 forms submitted by employers to the Internal Revenue Service.
This is scary because at the same time wages for the majority have gone down.
Want to test if you're top 1%?
Go take a gun, and kill a House of Representative member leaving back as much evidence as possible, and see if you go to jail.
If you do, you're the 99% still, sorry bro. If not, you're top 1%, congratulations!
Very good.
what makes you authority on anything? The money you make? The privileged job that you have? Are you trying to imply that anybody can get a job like yours?
no, i'm not an authority on anything. just one person with one point of view. yes, anyone who had access to public schools could have gotten a job similar to mine.
well - so why didn't they? If anybody can get a job like yours - why is there unemployment?
he wont have a job when his company shuts down thats why there is unemployment
Several reasons. My concern, as I've discussed ad nauseum, is that many people simply aren't born into situations where they have the same opportunities, whether it be quality of upbringing or quality of schools. Meaning the odds of them succeeding are drastically reduced.
If I was born to a black lady with no father figure, living in a dangerous urban neighborhood, going to a poorly performing school and being allowed to roam the streets after school due to mom being at work, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be here right now.
Have people gone through such upbringings and still succeeded? Of course. But outliers don't make a trend. And we, as society, have to deal with those who did not become an outlier.
We address that and many of these issues would be fixed.
you are missing a bigger picture. Let's say that everybody were born to white parents and went to exactly the same school. Would there be unemployment?
Of course. Because all markets, whether it be labor or housing or whatever, are not perfectly efficient.
What reasons would cause such inefficiencies in a rainbows and lollipops world of everyone growing up the same? Too many to mention. Offhand, you can point to employers taking time to adjust to changing technologies and the need to hire qualified folks for new technologies while laying off those who are not. Or migration trends throughout the country, as folks of a certain age group move from one group of areas in the country to another. The people working in service industries supporting them in their former home would no longer be needed and they would be laid off.
Market inefficiencies will always result in some unemployment. If you're aim is to kill all unemployment to 0 (which I don't understand why anyone would), then we should just trash the republic and start over.
what creates unemployment is not market inefficiencies (whatever that means) - but insufficient buying power - insufficient demand for goods and services offered for sale. If demand is sufficient - then people are hired to fulfill it - thus becoming richer and further increasing demand. The demand is insufficient because businesses are trying to be efficient and minimize costs - thus paying people less. People buy less, and thus businesses have to fire employees, etc. You can educate unemployed all you want - if there is no demand for goods and services - there will be no hiring. The educated ones might replace uneducated ones, but that will not change unemployment level. So what can break the cycle? Government can.
No one is saying market inefficiencies creates all unemployment, you're confusing the issue. You asked me why is there any unemployment, meaning it should be at 0%. I told you why it can't ever be at zero, because of market inefficiencies and government not being that big enough or voters like me wanting it to try and manage labor markets to that degree, among other things. Past that, there of course are several factors why there is increased unemployment, insufficient demand for consumer goods being one of them.
of course unemployment can be zero. Government can employe the unemployed. Look up New Deal.
The problem is that there are some "true believers" in market efficiencies and inefficiencies who does not want it. Selfish brats - what else can I say. Like I said - their beliefs would quickly change if it is them that were unemployed.
why? Don't you think government could employ the unemployed?
What is market inefficiency by the way?
No, because I don't believe, nor to I support big government trying to correct every small inefficiency in every market in the economy. It would waste a ton of money and would not be effective due to how slow politically it would take to get measures through.
Market inefficiency means all markets don't work 100% perfectly, that there are many reasons why there are small deviations against the larger trend. I urge you to look up the phenomenon in a macroeconomics textbook or website, it will discuss it far better than I can
well - unemployment level that we have now is no "small inefficiency". And who gives a .... about market inefficiencies. People need jobs and not some "beliefs" what government should do. I bet your belief about "big government" would change quickly if you were unemployed and lost your money, and suddenly nobody needed lawyers anymore, and you would have to retrain to compete for some housekeeper job - which you just could not find.
But you didn't ask me about the overall unemployment level now, you asked me about all unemployment. Then you used my response to that scenario as somehow being my answer for a different measure of unemployment, the current level. It makes no sense.
I suggest focusing your arguments more, its difficult for me to take you seriously when you can't follow the conversation :) No offense, of course.
what is the difference between "overall unemployment level" and "all unemployment"? I can follow conversation just fine.
Current unemployment is over 9%, all unemployment is 0%. It's a big difference :)
OnePercentGuy, Thank you for being so revealing about your financial assets. And congratulations for your continued success.
Our nation's assets are $78 trillion. Our nation's debt is $116 trillion Our nation's currency and credit derivatives are $616 trillion.
Our country's combined debt exceeds our assets. That's an upside down financial picture. Then there is the addition of the $616 trillion.
I struggle to comprehend how you can be classified in the 1%, not in comparison to those figures. It appears that no percentage of our population, to include all 100%, much less the top 1% of our taxpayers, can lay claim to this level of funding. Albeit, our government who spends almost $4 trillion, annually.
In my humble opinion, sir, your government has classified you on a scale separate from their own thresholds. My intent is not to come across as disingenuous.
Agreed. You are not being disingenuous at all. Facts are facts.
same age group- make 100K+ a year in big pharma with no degree- worked from the bottom up and took about 10 years. So I am a third of the way to the 1% group. Hope to be there sooner rather than later. started a roofing company when I was in my early twentys with no money up front... I do have some formal education but dropped out with 3.5 GPA because i needed money to survive basically- I just got to say.... People think hard work pays off, which it does most of the time, but working smarter pays off a lot better.
Agreed. Congrats on your success.
thank you sir
Why bother to acquire so much private wealth? You seem to have it all worked out. "I hope to reach 20 to 40 million by my prime earning years, we'll see." On the face of it it seems pretty ordinary. After all some are worth billions. But its real mediocrity is its waste of time. Why bother? You are in your mid thirties already and the best you hope for is to imitate that abstract entity that insurance companies bank on: a figment of their arithmetic. The real problem with capitalism is its lousiness. You have to become less to play a numbers game. You are in danger of slipping through life without touching the sides. Wake up to yourself.
Well, that's assuming I live my life in constant competition/comparison with those ahead of me. I don't. What other people have doesn't bother me, as long as I'm living a good, decent, happy life, I'm good. I feel I'm very blessed. Not having to worry about money is blessing and I'm very grateful. Like I said earlier, I don't live a lifestyle that people expect of my income. Very modest, only the things I really need or desire, which isn't much. The 20-40 million number was merely a guess at what I might have if I continue on this track, with this employer, etc. It isn't a hard and fast benchmark that I'll judge my self-worth against.
Who knows, I could just say fuck it all by 40 and just quit and go live on a farm or something. We'll see.
As to why bother acquiring so much even though I don't spend much of it, I think it's because money in this society equals influence. As I make more and more, I find myself giving more and more away and discovering how much influence and sway it gets me. I'm not saying it's right, just saying that it's the way it is. That relationship what we're all pissed about and posting on here about, after all.
Perhaps I need to be clearer. Stop wasting your life. Anyone can do what you have done: it has been done so many times before. Stop being a routine, a convention, a scheme, an algorithm. And one of the enabling myths for those who have done what you do has always been the fairy tale of retiring to a farm, sometime. Stop being so modest. Stop being just anyone. Every human being is capable of much more than this. If you were becoming more, if you were becoming real, "money in this society equals influence" would be enough for you to want to change everything and to become capable of such a thing. In the name of humanity want everything.
Agree in that anyone can do what I've done. Interesting that so many people in this thread argue vehemently to the contrary when I make the same point lol.
Disagree as to wasting my life and being just anyone, it never ceases to amaze me how much influence someone of my position has, both in terms of money and job. It is quite gratifying to be able to do something about the things that concern me about my community, I love it.
Anyone can do what you have done but the problem is you have to become just anyone to do it. To be successful in capitalism you have to become less. You have to ignore just about everything. You have to disregard just about everyone. You have to narrow your mind to very superficial ends. You have to stop the consequences of your actions at a property line. You have to limit your responsibility to a bottom line. You have to arrest yourself to avoid any real engagement. You have to only go through the motions. It feels like gliding but it is really just disappearing without trace. This is the same whether you are a worker or a boss but bosses make money out of it. Capitalism makes people superfluous. No one has much influence individually.
Nah, those assumptions don't really apply to me. No such thing as going through the motions with the job, get to travel a lot, meet new and interesting people all the time. Happily engaged. Am able to care for my mom and uncle. Things are so much better this way than if I just chose some other path.
On the other hand, I see some coworkers and friends from school in other careers that fit your assessment pretty closely. Eerily so.
what kind of influence have you bought?
Two kinds. First, at my school, a large public university. Giving a certain amount to fund programs and scholarships means that you are asked for your opinion on certain courses of action by the decisionmakers. When you call to voice your approval or displeasure, they are inclined to listen.
Second is in my community. You find out very fast that it's the same names and faces at benefit events and fundraisers for various causes, from both business and government. You network at those events and you find out that, alas, you have many of the same beliefs, concerns about the future and similar background stories. This leads to doing business with them in the future.
I'm not saying it's right. Just saying that it's the way it is.
You keep saying that. If you really were 1%, you could change it.
That's assuming I want to change folks of means networking with one another, I don't. If anything, I want to elevate more folks to that level.
No offense, for a smart guy who "has it all figured out" you don't seem to "get it".
This thread was largely a rehash of all the mainstream arguments of how the poor can get some money, if they just pull themselves together. I think you're missing the whole point that the system is rigged to a degree that even the middle class has no choice but to take it to the streets.
Just sayin'
nah, the thread and my comments in particular agree with you that such an impairment exists for the middle class and that this kind of mass protest is needed. it is rigged, so many ppl are destined to fail.
making lots of money doesnt make me an authority on anything, nor does it mean i have anything figured out. i wouldnt be here if i did.
let go of your preconceived notions and hostility. the only thing i claim to have in this forum is one pov and one voice. no louder than anyone elses.
I have respect for your voice, and you seem like an intelligent person. My comments were more directed toward the "Econ 101" nature of the thread, as well as the "that's the way it is" copout.
I'd rather talk about "the way it should be", or "the way it will be". Obviously the 1% has to give some ground soon, or they risk losing everything! Basically the elite will need to put together a "New Deal" of some sort. My guess would be that it will involve the Fed printing more money, but this time for the lower class.
That's a silly conclusion to draw. Talking strictly about the way things should be without discussion of the current situation in a frank, technical, nuts and bolts manner means there's no blueprint to get from here to there. Rainbows and sunshine aren't going to fix the issues of income and wealth disparity, blunt self-evaluation and hard decisionmaking will.
Uhh I don't think econ 101 relates much to the current situation. A pseudo-intellectual discussion on elasticity and supply/demand has nothing to do with what's going on right now - this is BLATANT FRAUD. Regurgitating some neo-keynesian garbage won't help anybody understand that. At best you'll provide yourself with some justification for why you made it and nobody else did.
Disagree. Implementing real, not pie in the sky, pro growth and pro employment policies, is rooted in macroeconomic theory and decisionmaking. Focusing on one narrow aspect of what got us into this problem changes little, as OWS has demonstrated oh so painfully the past two months. It wasn't just fraud at the top that got us here. Piss poor regulation, an unchecked culture of consumerism, etc.
To say otherwise is intellecual laziness.
Do you believe that separating Investment banks from Lending/Commercial banks is a good Idea?
depends. from a regulatory standpoint, no. from a shareholder standpoint, yes.
why? (on both counts)
Regarding the former, such arrangements allows banks to no longer be regulated by the Federal Reserve. Meaning there isnt as much diligence concerning liquidity, adequate capitalization and risk management.
Regarding the latter, it is a good thing for me when I take my citizen hat off and put my devil shareholder cap on. Because without as much regulation, the bank can be more creative and take on more risk, increasing the likelihood of higher profits.
As we all see post-08 meltdown, shouldering more risk = lost all your money. But when it comes to greed, humans have short memory spans and an insatiable itch for gambling. It is what it is.
So would I be correct to summarize that you would be in favor of bringing back Glass Steagall, providing you were someone with no dog in the race but were a supporter of sound money and a strong dollar?
Yes, I would support such a measure, even as a greedy, selfish money grubbing bank shareholder. No Glass Steagall means more booms led by excessive risk taking, then catastrophic busts that result in systemic risk-induced bailouts and repeat and repeat and repeat. Slower, sustainable growth from the financial industry is needed, my heart can't take the roller coaster ride.
Interesting, the Idea of a banker supporting the separation of investment banks (which take an ownership position) from commercial banks (lending) thereby ending a conflict of interest. Which is what Glass Steagall did. Glass Steagall said that you can have investment banks, and you can have commercial banks. But they must be separate.
The repeal of Glass Stegall did away with position limits banks could take. (Thank you Robert Rubin and Citigroup) And let the two merge together into the Too Big To Fail Vampire Squids that are currently wrapped around the face of humanity eating of its substance.
10 years after its repeal, looking around... Coincidence? No ...and you don't sound like the 1% to me at all. A toast to Glass Steagalls timely return then! ~dink~
Stop basing you assumptions on this economic downturn alone. They have been going on for years. Stop only looking at our current crisis and ignoring the the global crisis that we are simply a part of. There is a reason OWS is a global movement. We are all in this together.
What assumptions am I making?
Sorry that was not directed at you. Leynna is right and its the people that have there hands in every central bank that are the ones responsible for the mess the world is in.
ah. agree 100%. ECB is trying to put out a wildfire with a spray bottle in greece, spain, italy etc. and the fed has flattened the yield curve to absurd proportions. the mess began with greenspan.
Just to keep things going. Lets not forget Sweden fell victim to a housing bubble back in the early 1990's. Funny thing is if you look at what helped create the bubble its pretty much the exact same thing that happened to the US. "A bursting real estate bubble caused by inadequate controls on lending combined with an international recession and a policy switch from anti-unemployment policies to anti-inflationary policies resulted in a fiscal crisis in the early 1990s." Makes you wonder doesn't it?
Can you loan me about $100k??
You in particular? No. But I would loan/invest +$100k into a compelling small business opportunity.
Here is a poignant rant on things we are looking to change: Change existing SEC ACT and REGULATIONs that will disallow Golden Parachute awards to SENIOR Execs - Rid the BONUS plans to Senior execs. --- 1. MAKE every CORPORATION sitting on a stock index to BUILD their CORPORATE Balance sheet to now include "%" revenue going back to community - Feed the HUNGRY- clothe the poor and provide community with first OPPORTUNITY for any and all job openings/new hires they have; 2. PUBLISH every single employee salary, job titles- This now becomes public information to instill a new level of trust; this alone will BREAK Corporations of "feathering their nests" with their buddies from a company they just left - MAKE THEM hire Executive level individuals RESPONSIBLY 3. CAP EXECUTIVE SALARIES - No one in a publicly traded company can make over $300,000. CEO, CIO, CFO capped at $300K; COO' and any other Chief officers of the company capped at $250K; Senior VP's capped at $200K. BONUS Packages voted on by the employees. - When a CEO fails YOU DO NOT GET A BONUS PACKAGE. You DO NOT GET REWARDED FOR FAILURE a. When you establish the CAP on salaries you then put a plan in motion to remove a dividend plan and motion to change with a profit sharing plan that INCLUDES every employee in the company. i. The left over revenue and profit will now be divided out first a percentage goes to every employee EQUALLY - no one deserves any more than another ii Another percentage goes to community caring projects - charities that are chosen by the employees - VOTE internally - and come up with a few choice ways for the CORPORATION to give back to their community at large This is a start to CHANGING our SYSTEMS that have grown corrupt and full of GREED. Please write this to every congressperson you can - send this message out ... we 99%'ers need to take action now and drive this change. NO MORE CORPORATE GREED _ it ends now!
so i will make the company private so I can make more money.... A company is only becomes public to gain investors, gain assets, etc... but its all a pony show in the end... The original founder (the guy that took the risk to get a loan to start the company) will usually end up owning a majority of the shares to maintain control and his/her seat on the board. Scenario- I start a company- by creating a business plan and getting a loan from the bank... Lets say this company is Facebook, a free web site, and generates income by selling ad space and subscriptions etc.... I take the company public and have, lets say, 50 employees.. After taking the company public I have created a revenue stream of over 1 billion dollars.... YOu did absolutely nothing to create the site, take the risk, etc.... and want to tell me how much I can make.... Are you kidding me?
not kidding... laws for large corporations and for business owners of small time rinky dinks too... public first ... phase into the non-publics but have to make adaptations to be right for the business and the mission. If business owners take their community into consideration - where they set up shop then fantastic... they can start it up with the "do-good" path that congress has to put in writing for larger public trading corps. end of story - business brings it home and spreads the wealth no matter how big... yep that would be what i would parlay for and debate for and in the end, something that works for the masses and for creating better life for us all would be what should come out of it - no more "this is MY world, MY money, MY life ... NO ONE ELSE MATTERS - its all ME ME ME ME... " <-- That my friend has got to end! If you are opening a non-prof already in the throws of giving back and helping to make life better for your community then hats off ... It would be wise for this sector to become a HUGE player in the new order for doing business in America!"
not kidding... laws for large corporations and for business owners of small time rinky dinks too... public first ... phase into the non-publics but have to make adaptations to be right for the business and the mission. If business owners take their community into consideration - where they set up shop then fantastic... they can start it up with the "do-good" path that congress has to put in writing for larger public trading corps. end of story - business brings it home and spreads the wealth no matter how big... yep that would be what i would parlay for and debate for and in the end, something that works for the masses and for creating better life for us all would be what should come out of it - no more "this is MY world, MY money, MY life ... NO ONE ELSE MATTERS - its all ME ME ME ME... " <-- That my friend has got to end! If you are opening a non-prof already in the throws of giving back and helping to make life better for your community then hats off ... It would be wise for this sector to become a HUGE player in the new order for doing business in America!"
In two hundred words or less tell us what Senetor Dod stands for and how you feel he is right or wrong.
Tell us how many total dollars did the Senate committee on banking take in campaign contributions from the banking lobby in 2010?
Who played 3rd base for the 1960 Pirates?
List five banking laws that have been "deregulated" in the last ten years
Iran’s Supreme Leader’s Speech to People of Kermanshah The last point that I would like to make is related to the issues of the west. The event that is happening in America is an important event. The movement known as "Occupy Wall Street", which has created excitement among the American people, is important. They tried to present this movement as insignificant and they are still trying to do so. Until two, three weeks after the movement, among all important newspapers of America, only one newspaper published a report on this movement. The rest of their newspapers stayed silent. The same gentlemen who claim to support freedom of expression, the same people who hugely magnify everything that happens in every part of the world - of course only if this is in line with their policies - stayed completely silent about such a great movement. But they realized that they did not have a choice. They were forced to report the news. They were forced to do so by thousands of people who have gathered on Wall Street in New York and in other cities and states of America. Of course they want to ride the waves of the movement. In any case, the issue is an important issue.
One issue is that the corruption of capitalism has become tangible and visible to the people of America. They may manage to suppress this movement, but they cannot destroy the roots of the movement. After all, one day this movement will thrive to the extent that the capitalist system of America and the west will be completely razed to the ground.
The brutality of the corrupt capitalist system is not just limited to the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and other countries. They do not even show mercy to their own people. In the thousands-strong demonstrations in New York, the people were carrying a placard which said, "We are the 99 percent." This means that 99 percent of the people of America have to follow the other one percent of the American population. The wars on Iraq and Afghanistan were waged by one percent of the American population, but the other 99 percent had to suffer the casualties and pay the money. This is what has awakened the people and made them protest. Of course the propaganda methods and the psychological warfare of American officials, the CIA and others are extremely oppressive and cruel. They might suppress the protests. But the truth was revealed and it will be revealed even more. Contrary to all those claims, this is what the capitalist system is. This is what western liberal democracy is.
Israel is being supported by one percent of the Americans. The people of America are not interested in supporting Israel. They are not interested in paying the money to keep the cancerous tumor, the fake Israeli regime, in power in the region. They way they treated the movement is also interesting. They first kept silent about the movement and then they crushed it cruelly - both in America and in certain European countries. In England, brutality was so much that one would not see even one tenth of it in backward countries which are ruled by dictatorial regimes. But then these people are claiming to support human rights. They are claiming to support freedom of expression. They are claiming to support freedom of assembly. They claim to support all people throughout the world. Those who were advising us to follow the methods of the capitalist system should take a look at these realities and see what capitalism is: a complete dead end. Today capitalism has reached a dead end. It might take years for the consequences to emerge, but the crisis in the west is in full swing. http://english.khamenei.ir//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1546&Itemid=4
capitalism was never corrupt- people are corrupt You obviously a muslim jew hater!!! whats your solution- socialism- tyranny- u ruling the world- Also we dont have a truly capitalistic system because by definition the banks would all fail. because of people like you- this world is going to crap- True Capitalism is Survival of the Fittest.... take religion out of it... its Nature!
capitalism was never corrupt- people are corrupt You obviously a muslim jew hater!!! whats your solution- socialism- tyranny- u ruling the world- Also we dont have a truly capitalistic system because by definition the banks would all fail. because of people like you- this world is going to crap- True Capitalism is Survival of the Fittest.... take religion out of it... its Nature!
Do you have an opinion on using Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) for Presidential, Congressional state or local elections? Personally, I believe the implementation of an extremely simple voting system change solves 99% of problems our political system currently has. What do you think about it?
am not against IRV, is used by other countries. do not agree with change from the electoral college to a general vote count, candidates would just concentrate on the cities to get the most votes and neglect rural areas and issues.
I think I did and you didn't answer me. Typical.
hey onepercentguy, well you really pissed me off.. with the continuous "there are job's out there ...get a job BS"... but I learned something from the conversation... I should focus on the real current position ....this movement is past the the poor economic conditions that the greedy have inflicted upon us... it is now about addressing the injustice... and the taking back of our country... and for the record... we all now have a job... a worthy job ...doing just that...
@BradB: We need to provide you with training/re-training. If your skills are needed in the job market, you'll find a well-paying job.
cool... let me go see if I can qualify for a $30k training loan... brb
BradB:
Well...we SHOULD provide you with the skills you need to get a well-paying job. I know we don't, and we need to fix that.
If ur a business owner, u r a person that should have one voice in the way this country is run. If your business (corporation, etc) uses cash to influence people elected representatives, then ur property is being given rights it should not have.
a good point, this is. i do not make poliical contributions of any sort and dont plan to.
if there were candidates that were representativeof my views, i would. but most here in texas arent. you have a bunch of folks on the far right and all the blacks are on the far left in urban areas. no moderates who are socially moderate and fiscally conservative.
oh yeah- and Go Herman Cain!!!! sorry for the bad grammar and spelling in my posts.
will say that im a libertarian and disagree with any social "justice" or "moderation". Govt should serve as the following only- Defend my land foreign invasion Collect a small %revenue to build and maintain public highways and transportation, support the military, and provide a very very limited amount of public assistance programs for the mentally and physically disabled. Moderate regulation of the monetary system
Thats about it- Govt should Stay off my land out of my bedroom out of my wallet and let me seek prosperity in the way that I choose.
Disagree, but I'm not libertarian so whatever.
Umm...onepercentguy, do you have your own business or do you work for someone else?
http://occupyyallstreet.blogspot.com
Both. I work for a law firm and money from that, I have invested, including in a few local businesses. I own those businesses but I do not actively manage them.
I really hope OWS can move toward a concise focus directed at the root of so many 99%'s grievances - money in politics. I'm advocating the single demand of prohibiting private spending on public campaigns. I think this issue will have the most wide reaching impact, gain the broadest support, and will allow the 99% to participate meaningfully as both candidates and voters. Right now I can only think of two ways to get there www.lobbydemocracy.com and www.getmoneyout.com
Add to the discussion here https://docs.google.com/document/d/14MNou3pijCZ6WeRCinuOmwo75Ul20-fZrlraL7aCzUE/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1
Would you support something like this form of democracy? - I think there should be a minimum number of signatures that need to be gathered in order to initially participate. From there, public debates should be held and follow up polls should determine the top x# candidates. Those candidates should be awarded airtime, funding, and another spot in a debate. Repeating the debates, polling, funding cycle should narrow down the candidates until x# remain and an election is held. An election should look something like a tournament where the candidates with the best ideas/platform advance and are rewarded with airtime and campaign funds. With national elections, candidates must start local, and work up regionally through each level.
this is my primary gripe, as well. have supported such measures for years. comprehensive campaign finance reform should be step one.
Hi 1%. I do not see campaign finance reform as a solution, as a brit we do not have the same level of money involved in our political system but still have the same problems. I am not saying money funding politics helps but to me it’s simpler; the political elite naturally mix with the financial elite so it is natural (if unacceptable) that we end up with a system that suits their common interests, people do business with the people they know.
Agreed. People of similar backgrounds and lifestyles will hang out, socialize and do business with one another, that is unavoidable. OWS makes it all sound like one big sinister plot when meanwhile, it could be nothing more than meeting some dude in a restaurant.
Great! I'm really trying to spread the word to stop all the whining about symptoms deriving from this issue. Pass along the links if you'd like
One more! It is obvious our elected representatives do not actually represent the populaces desires, motivations and vote (quite the contrary- media and politicians tell ppl how to think which cause them to repeat blindly what they do not understand as if it were a value). How do you feel about this?
I agree. That's why I am here. Like I said earlier, my job requires me to wrangle with elected officials on a regular basis and it pains me to see them only make decisions that benefit themselves politically or their campaign contributors. It is quite disgusting.
Nice
Lastly, I would be interested to hear your take on CEOs and psychopathic patterns... and please, if you have not read about this topic or know about the indicators and how they relate, then your answer would be merely speculative. If you have, then please share.
I can answer- Its called type A personality and means they are driven individuals- some would say narcissist but that condition is more left to all you OWS.... since it is only identified when it becomes distracting or disabling. But please you have to be specfic because CEO's is a generality... give me specific people because for every 1 CEO that may have a psychopathic pattern I'll show you 100 who are down at Zuchotti park supporting OWS and who are displaying the same.... I dont support OWS- just a bunch of complainers and whiners- A 15 year old tried to rape two women down at the park---- not a very nice movement...
There are ppl in the park that have nothing to do with own... same as this board. Being a ceo cannot be compared to ppl in a public park. There are 46 questions designed to determine major traits of a sociopath or its bug brother psychopath. Things such as lack of empathy, grandiosity, and the like. Sir please try not to comments. On something you know nothing about.
I know nothing of the topic other than anecdotally noticing that some of the most successful people I know in places of power are complete assholes and/or douchebags. But the topic intrigues me. Suggested readings on the topic?
The book The Corporation is a good ice breaker.
what do you think of this? http://occupywallst.org/forum/lets-get-focused-and-bring-back-glass-steagall-act/
I would also like to ask you for your insights on billionaires and philanthropy.
I personally know about 10 billionaires, some through work, some through community-related connections. All from assorted backgrounds, some self made, some old money. All of them donate generously to social and educational causes they believe in, in many cases with no fanfare or anonymously. Are one or two that I don't know what their motivation in doing so is, the others come across as genuinely feeling empathy for their fellow man and feeling good about themselves being able to help others or benefit their communities. I admire all of them for it.
Actually 1%, I'm a metal investor and not a trader but can you explain to these kids what things like shorts and stops and whatever so they can financially set them selves up the way you know how to do?
Think of how you would start over with just a couple hundred bucks and tell them. I think you will get farther just showing some human concern for their well being.
It would require them to have money to invest. I can't teach someone how to create money out of thin air and I can't teach someone how to make a fortune with a few hundred bucks. If they had the jobs and money, we wouldn't be having OWS.
Do you own physical gold and silver ?
Yes, I do. Physical silver is much more difficult to store, seeing as how you need to store so much more of it to even approach the value of your physical gold holdings. So I also own a lot of silver ETFs.
Wow ... Ditto ...It has been a crazy 10 years ... I wish I had gotten more grams of gold when it was cheap
the leveraged silver etf is where the real wild ride has been this year. up 300% percent within weeks, down 75%, up again. scary yet entertaining.
Wondering where it will be by 2014 ... guessing silver will check up with gold close to the 16:1 ratio
Can you tell me how to make a good deal of money? If I had money to pay my bills and student loans, then I wouldn't be protesting. They take such high taxes from me- and I earn little money.
No idea, its different for everyone. For me, it was simple. Studied my ass off in high school, got good grades, went to the best school I could get into, got good grades in a marketable major, went to the best law school I could get into, got licensed, got the best job I could possibly hope for. Took that paycheck and invested almost all of it. All that resulted in my current situation.
I took advantage of the opportunities afforded me and it worked out. Do I consider myself an outlier, an exception? I don't know. I didn't do anything special or out of the ordinary. I just decided early on what I wanted and worked towards it.
Can you tell me how to make a good deal of money? If I had money to pay my bills and student loans, then I wouldn't be protesting. They take such high taxes from me- and I earn little money.
Can i ask for a job?
Wanna drive a forklift and move to Texas? Sure.
would that pay $35/hour with health benefits? if it does, I am so there!
$35/hr comes to over $72k a year. No, we do not pay entry warehouse employees that much.
then forget it. But it sucks that my degree is only good enough for an entry warehouse employee position.
PEOPLE! IT IS NOT THE 1% WE ARE FIGHTING. WE ARE FIGHTING THE SYSTEM THAT CREATES THE 1%
Our current social system has the entire world playing this game of money/power acquisition. Don't blame the people who have succeeded in the game. Blame the fucked up rules of the game. I take that back, simply blaming something or someone gets us nowhere. How about learn from mistakes we have made, change what is not working, and evolve. We have walked on the moon but havent figured out how to defeat starvation. It's not that we don't have the ability to feed people, its that we choose not to. Decades from now they will be looking at today's society in disbelief. We are incredibly advanced technologically, but socially primitive, paralized by outdated customs and traditions
The !% either make the rules of the game or make sure the rules of the game work to their advantage. Duh.
Sorry the site is malfunctioning...Do you advocate for a progressive tax system or a flat tax?
You made a point to make a point of stating you are not in the financial industry? Please explain?
Because the protesters I talk to outside of my office sometimes seem to think that everyone or the majority of people in the 1% are in finance. They aren't. It's a lot of working professionals.
Most people in finance don't make much at all. Most of those folks walking past the OWS site in new york probably make around 35-50k.
I am in my mid 30s. I am not the 99% that appears in the mainstream media. I have a career, I have an education and I'm not in major debt. I pay my bills on time and my gripes are centered around how I have been effected by the recession and the system. What is your point of view regarding how our society can help someone that just had bad luck one year - ie medical emergency, lay off, etc.?
It disturbs me to hear how you delineate yourself from the 99% by saying "I have a career, an education and am not in major debt. I pay my bills on time..." Whether you mean to or not you are suggesting that the 99% is all: jobless, uneducated, owes money and doesn't pay their bills. While we are fighting the circumstances that make those things unfortunate realities for many, we are a very disparate group and include many people with "careers", degrees and functioning checkbooks and even include many very wealthy people who see the same fundamental problems as we do, and who have "gripes centered around how I have been effected [sic -- some of us have English degrees] by the recession and the system". I don't know where you're getting your skewed impression from, but this is not a movement about hating people who are financially comfortable. This is about anger at specific events that created a situation in which people (including you) are sliding ever more down the food chain due to wildly excessive greed and theft on the part of BIG, BIG business.
Sassafrass, I didn't say I was not a member of the 99%. I am very much the 99%. You misread my statement. I said I am not the 99% that the media is saying is all of OWS. The media is saying that the only protestors are "hippies, etc" I wasn't at all denegrating anyone. I think you just misread my statement. I am in total agreement with OWS and what it stands for. I have been down to OWS, Times Square, Washington Square and was part of the movement in my small city of Mount Vernon. What I was saying is the media is calling the protestors the lazy and jobless and that is not at all the case.
Society is trying to help, namely the federal government. Unemployment benefits have been extended several times, help with mortgages has been passed several times.
Now, whether or not the help has been an effective use of resources, is the real question. I supported the first rounds of unemployment benefits but up to a certain point, it creates chronic unemployment and gives people a safety net against taking jobs they view as beneath them.
what about universal health care? What are your feelings about that. There are many people who have jobs but can not afford health care.
I don't oppose universal health care.
Are you part of a special interest or corporation that purchases influence over our government? That's what I have a problem with. with the rest, live and let live.
I don't have a problem with the symptoms, only the root cause. Money in Washington that subverts the entire political process.
1% of the population controlls 99% of the wealth. Now think about it how could you do that earing four or five hundred thousand a year that's rediculous. Rothchild is worth 300 trillion, Rockefeller around 35 trillion. For top 100 Ceo pay go to http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceou/top100_2011.cfm out of 100 the top earned about 7 million a month last year and the lowest in the top 100 earned about 1.5 million a month last year. People who's net worth is less than 100 million that think they are rich really bug me. And people who earn less than 5 million a year and think they are rich are really obnoxious.
check it out 1%...it's very hard to argue with simple, down to earth, old fashioned ideas. this is micheal moore at a book signind talking about the protests...it's long but you can skim through to hear some very sensible idea and basically this is the platform from which most of us speak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQx6M8FPe_I
Another one percenter here, at 29.
I worked my tail off to get where I am today. Started as a teen mom from a lower-middle-class family. Chose between lights and food more times than I'd like to remember. Worked my way up, starting as a dishwasher at 14, to a comfortable professional position with and a graduate degree. Two jobs at a time, plus full-time school...I operated on a sleep deficit for 9 years, and I scrimped and saved. My cell phone (right now) was made in 1996 and cost $8 - I've had it for 3 years. We shop at Aldi's. My kids wear a lot of Goodwill clothes. We're not rolling in dollars - we're saving so we can retire and the kids can start off better than we did.
Last year we paid 40% of our income in combined state/fed taxes. We gave another 12% to charity. Out current family project is "adopting" a bunch of struggling families in our area for Christmas. My kids -chose- not to get anything for Christmas this year so we could take on a couple more families.
I'm a liberal, generally, with liberal friends.
But I have not heard any explanations about why my family should pay more in taxes than we already do. We have a large net worth because we worked for it. I have student loans too. Please tell me what my family is doing wrong here.
You're not a 1 percenter if you paid that much in taxes. I applaud your work ethic and success, but don't flatter yourself. "1 percenter" is not shorthand for "successful person with high income". We're talking about extreme excess at the very top. The kind that's got nothing to do with hard work, the kind that appears to be totally above the law. The kind that burns money instead of a yule log at Christmas and isn't taking in anyone for the holidays.
This isn't a movement against rich people per se. It's against wealth being used to gain more wealth and power to the detriment of society. It's not about punishing entrepreneurs and hard workers. It's about letting them flourish in a world that protects those who do not want or are not capable of owning their own business. I've yet to see a consensus on how this will happen. I believe that those who say "tax the rich" are just at a loss at how to fix the problem and that's just an easy not very creative way to solve the problem. I don't think the rich need to be taxed more. I think their business should pay more in wages and create more jobs instead of sending them overseas to boost profits. We can solve corporate greed without resorting to human greed.
though this does not appear to be the case with you.... the rich should pay more because they prey upon a system where the poor are paid less and less all the time. thus, class warfare, as the republicans like calling it, already exists but not in the direction the people are being told.
if nothing else, do it for the sake of compassion, which you appear to already have a lot of. you persevered, triumphed, and we should all take our hats off to you for your great work. not everyone has the same constitution you do though (call it nature/nurture, whatever). so while i'm not advocating a free pass, just know that a lot of people have it really hard and can't seem to overcome. just think that your money can help them. you are already doing a tremendous job through charity. taxes, in essence, serve some function as a national charity (to the extent they're devoted to social programs). if you dont perceive taxes to be a menace, they won't be. upward mobility in this country is so hard.
the person you should be talking to is michael moore, live on TV. I am sure someone with your money and your connections can wrangle that. guaranteed michael moore, in one hour, could sift through most of these questions and complaints in a way where you would see where all of you could be really rich without being greedy, capitalism without corruption.
Nah. I think Moore is very self-serving and manipulative, which is unfortunate, because he does make good observations that people should know about.
I liked his old show on NBC, TV Nation. His interview with Jack Kevorkian was outstanding and very entertaining.
Are u hiring? They tell me you are one of the job "creators."
My firm is, yes. Having a hard time finding qualified paralegals. My business interests are, having a hard time finding folks willing to drive forklifts and delivery trucks
People don't want the jobs that are available.
I have to partly agree with you about "people don't want the jobs that are available". Though there are many, many people (especially now) who will do anything to get by, there are some who won't. And I'm not even judging them for it harshly. American society is by now well conditioned to not only create a poor class but to stigmatize them. This is evident in the phenomenon you often see where someone who grew up dirt poor gets richer somehow and henceforth shows contempt for the poor (often this is due to a somewhat skewed impression of why they were able to become wealthier and why others are not). The root cause of this is abject terro of ever going "back to that". The American Way is largely built on this kind of abject shame and contempt for the poor and on an ideal of upward mobility that therefore gets way too rigid in hard times when everyone has to scale back. Also, there is understandable resentment that WE should have to be the ones scaling back and starting to get comfortable with the idea of working at McDonald's or digging ditches (some people at 60+ years old) after we have been sold the bill of goods of "just work hard and you'll advance" and many people have done exactly that all their lives and now they are faced with having to radically downscale not only their physical circumstances but their pride and dignity through no fault of their own but because of the colossal grift that has been pulled by the top 1%. There is understandable rage and rebellion at that. I do feel, though, unfortunately, that some of us need to become more comfortable with the idea of taking jobs we wouldn't ordinarily want--- not because we should have to, but because we'll starve otherwise. And because the likelihood is that if there is a job recovery plan of some sort instituted here (i.e. WPA style), the reality is that many of these jobs will be quite a bit less glamorous than what many of us are used to. It would not be an ideal situation, but at least it would help this country start to get back on its feet.
Wow, that is a hard truth to ponder.
Agreed. People perceive themselves as becoming what they used to despise.
Perhaps that is the biggest problem with the American Dream, such contempt for the poor, even by the middle class. Rather than simply striving to better oneself and be happy with whatever the result is, its more about feeling better about yourself because you are better off than someone else. It's quite dysfunctional.
did you earn your money honestly? For example: did you use polititicians to shape the laws for your profit? This is not technically criminal but is dishonest.
I think I do. I sleep well at night. Part of the nature of my work requires constant battles with elected officials, many of whole do not do what is right and just in order to further their own political careers, to the detriment of the citizens they represent.
What do you think about the subject of Interest? There seems to be nothing wrong with money if it is used only as a measure of exchange for goods and services but when you can charge interest on money, most of which doesn’t physically exist often guarantees that enormous dangers will arise.
The interest is payment for service of borrowing money. Without interest, there is no incentive for the lender to lend, nothing to offset the credit risk and the opportunity cost of putting the money for use elsewhere.
If I didn't have to pay interest on my business loans, I wouldn't be able to borrow a dime because there's no incentive for the lender to give me his money.
But shouldn't it work both ways equally. When you borrow money particularly with mortgage loans your saddled with most of the interest up front. If say within the first 7 years of you mortgage you win the lottery and you want to pay it off you do not get credit for the over charge in interest. So you have paid a mortgage rate of about 83% in the first 7 years of your 30 year mortgage. But your original rate is 5.60% how is that Fair! Show me a savings account that works that way?
I'm not sure what kind of mortgage you have but conventional mortgages charge interest on the principle. The reason you pay so much up front is because the principle is higher. No matter when you pay off the mortgage the interest rate should remain the same... now if you are calculating the interest paid verses the difference in the principle when you pay it off you've got it backwards.... interest is for the principle over the time you had it.. not just on the principle you paid off...
I have a 30 year fixed rate mortgage and your right I suck at math. But I don't think I over borrowed. I'm just shocked that after 5 years of mortgage payments I have only paid less than 10K in principal towards my 30 year mortgage. I borrowed just 120K, my down payment was a matched of that amount. so after 5 years i paid 61,574 in mortgage and taxes. I think the principal and interest rate should be equal amounts throughout the length of the loan. the only reason it's top loaded is so the bank gets its profit up front.
It is unfair. Then have a larger down payment. Or don't get a mortgage. Or rent. No one is forcing you buy a house. The misguided idea that everyone deserves a house and the government policies supporting that is what got us into this mess in the first place.
everyone does deserve a house or a place to stay,,, if corporate America can't see that... then we will end up Socialistic...
Nothing is stopping anyone from getting a basic services job and getting an apartment. Home ownership is not a birthright. The opportunities (education, work) that result in home ownership are, I think.
damnit onepercentguy... There are no jobs... get it straight.... get out of your fancy office ....go walk the streets... go to Detroit... go to New Orleans.. go to LA... get real....
Quite the contrary, there are job openings, people are either not qualified or they are unwilling to take the jobs because they are beneath them. Not opinion, it is fact. My law firm is having a hard time finding qualified paralegals and my business interests are having a hard time hiring warehouse workers, delivery drivers, etc. People don't want the jobs.
Things are particularly good here in North Texas, our unemployment rate has been consistently lower than the national average, lots of job growth in healthcare and telecom.
I see. You and your partners feel that your subordinates have absolutely no goodwill whatsoever like the rest of the USA. Did you ever consider training some junior paralegals for the position or let them climb the corporate ladder? Do you feel that they will simply jump ship once they reach the next tier of their career for better pay? One would think that partners displaying outstanding etiquette and morals as well as paying a competitive salary would encourage employees to stay on for the long haul. I am absolutely dying to hear your response on this.
Trust me, people will take warehouse jobs. Are there some odd stipulations associated with the positions that make them unattractive?
The only reason that someone would refuse a warehouse job is because it is in a remote location. You have to keep in mind that sometimes the cost of the commute and maintaining an automobile could make the actual wages of the job worthless. Figure 2500 annual depreciation for an automobile plus 500 maintenance plus 500 for insurance plus 2k for gas plus any other related issues and a 12k job per year equals under 6k. How is somebody going to live on 6k? The country is not designed to live on 6k.
Well, its not that simple, there is not corporate ladder in a traditional sense. A paralegal can only go so far and do so much as a paralegal, they can't take on certain tasks and responsibilities beyond that because it would require a law license, because all kinda of professional ethics rules kick in.
Which is why when they hit that wall, they're willing to go to law school and come back as attorneys. Which is why I have my problem. They're leaving faster than we can elevate replacements with comparable skills. And it isn't a problem just with us, many others in our industry have the same issues, resulting in lots of bidding. It is what it is.
No odd stipulations, the location isn't remote but it is out there to where there isn't any public transportation or cheap housing nearby. And no, the job pays much more than 12k. We get a ton of applications but people want more money or don't have the correct immigration status or can't pass a drug test or can't get out there.
I understand that paralegals don't have a law license and need one to practice law.
I admit that I don't understand the details of your circumstances and can only formulate an opinion based on the information you have provided which isn't much at all. I don't know the size of your firm, management structure, area of expertise, etc.
I wouldn't call "lots of bidding" creating a job. Based on my own personal experience, an attorney wouldn't dare smarten up a junior paralegal or another attorney with their intellectual property for fear of saturating their field; instead they just maliciously pluck the good ones from their competitors. Maybe a few of them might pursue a J.D., but I doubt that the majority of them are going like you stated. This simply isn't bona fide job creation, it's more like horse trading.
If you're wondering, yes, I hate your industry. It's nothing personal:)
Majority implies over 50%. So correct, I doubt most of them industry-wide are.
Disagree that it isn't bona fide job creation, because regardless of who leaves and who is hired at the bottom of the ladder, the jobs need to be filled because they are mission critical. It isn't a government job that can just be absorbed by the collective, I guess.
Lol. Completely understand. Wasn't wondering, I just assume it with everyone.
There are no jobs... get it straight.... get out of your fancy office ....go walk the streets... go to Detroit... go to New Orleans.. go to LA... get real.... and it is going to get worse ....you are living in a dreamland...
Disagree. As someone who is actively creating jobs, I'm not making assumptions. People don't want the jobs I'm trying to fill. That's not my fault.
you guys cashed in on the housing boom... drove the prices so high it had to collapse ... a ponzi scheme... and now you wonder why so many can't pay for your usury profits... pretty sad huh?
Nah, I didn't cash in on any housing boom. When I bought my house, the Dallas market was viewed as very undervalued. Still is.
what are you offering to pay for those jobs? can they pay their bills with it?... can they even think about sending their kids to college? ... can they fill their gas tanks?...
The problem with your type, is the job is never good enough, the pay is never good enough, too much stress, etc. First of all, wtf says it's your job to put kids through school? Mine didn't commit a dime. I'm paying for kids housing, nothing else. You will never climb to the top if you don't start busting ass at the bottom. If it takes you an extra 5-10 years to realize it, you will just be that far behind your classmates that STFU and got to work.
Sure, our paralegals make very good money and get very generous benefits. Healthcare, retirement, profit sharing, etc.
The problem is a lot of qualified paralegals here with specialized skills that our firm wants realize they could make a lot more as attorneys and are going to law school. Some of our senior paralegals make almost as much as our brand new junior associates, their skills are so coveted.
Warehouse employees are paid a very competitive wage, full benefits for full timers. A lot of applicants are Hispanic without the correct paperwork, and our hands are tied in that we won't hire folks without the correct immigration status.
The jobs are there. The people either don't want them or are not qualified academically or don't have the prereq skills.
I would rather work at McDonalds or live on the streets than work for the medical "business" - talking about corrupt!
McDonalds is hiring.
That was just a statement I made. Luckily, I am age 64 and retired AND yes, I worked all my life and received help from no one!
Maybe the once plentiful paralegal people just got tired of working their butts off, working such long hours and dealing with a lot of stress and have changed professions. Are you paying a living wage for your warehouse and delivery drivers?
Definitely a living wage. See my reply to your question below, someone else asked it earlier.
If your warehouse jobs provide a living wage I cannot believe you can't find help. Huh, maybe it is the area the business is in ... assuming it is upscale.
I have read that a lot of employers' are not hiring unemployed people ... is this the case with your company? I cannot believe with all the people that have lost their jobs and homes and are living on the street do not want to work in your warehouse.
onepercentguy says ..."The jobs are there. The people either don't want them or are not qualified academically or don't have the prereq skills...."
ok I guess everyone should move to Texas.... look,,,onepercentguy ... you are living in the dark... if you want to keep believing in your fairy tale.. go ahead... but don't think for one minute that any of us are buying that crap...
the greed of corporate America is creating an America where the only way to make a living is thru crime.... it needs to be fixed... stop the denial
You may simply be too stupid to borrow money. Something tells me you have credit card debt that is unfairly expensive now, after the teaser rate wore off.
my mortgage rate was 5.46 five years ago smarty pants and I have a 5.05 credit card with an 85K credit limit. Match that wise ass!
So was everybody's 5 years ago. You were the one claiming you paid 83%. I'd say my rate and available credit are about the same. But, I understand how interest works ;)
Yes but if that borrowed money was lets say created out of thin air. Who's interest was served? One can then make more money from manipulating pieces of paper and electronic numbers than they can from producing essential goods and services for people who need them.
This seems to be the number 1 problem. With the charging of interest, the money chases those who already have money and ignores those who have not.
And the alternative would be worse. In that world, the only people who could afford to invest in business would be people like me with a ton of cash, small business people would be unable to get financing because financial institutions would have no incentive to lend. The 1% gets richer.
but that (the alternative) is what is happening ...
It is the current economic system itself that is the root cause of these problems. Greed, corruption, and war are inevitable byproducts of a system that feeds off interest with no care or concern of the planet or human beings. The main aim of such a system is the creation of wealth, property, and power. This results in everyone being out for themselves.
It is, in effect. Hence the guy's argument not making any sense.
You and I both know there is no need for anyone to be cold, hungry, homeless or in poverty. All these things are caused by the lack of pieces of paper and electronic numbers called money circulating in the world and by the charging of interest on them. We could change that today if the desire was there.
Disagree. Ignoring the substance of my rebuttal doesn't change the fact that your wish to rid the world of interest would make the rich richer. Much richer. Widening the wealth gap. This isn't opinion, it is fact.
We live in a free society, a society based on people making choices. Freedom at its core is the privilege of being able to make a choice, if you boil it down. I think it is unjust when people do not have the same opportunities and are not given that choice. Poor children who wish to climb the socioeconomic ladder should have those opportunities. People should have the choice to succeed if they are willing to do the work and make the right decisions. If people choose not to, given they had that choice and had the same opportunities, then they choose their own fate. I don't owe them anything and will not wave my hand to end their suffering.
We all have to own up to the consequences of our decisions and choices. It's part of growing up and being a reasonable person.
onepercentguy, think about this.... the world is under-going a financial crisis.. no?... and it is doing that primarily for two reasons... one, we have allowed industrialization to globalize.. including far more people to enter the prosperity building game... which is a good thing ... yet with more people playing we need more capital... and two... the lending institutions for the most part have lost their vision, their leadership... they no-longer concern themselves with the result of their actions,, they only see that they can increase their worth... solely on moving money... well when money only moves between the same people ... little progress is made... and the middle class is decimated...
what do you think will happen to the big manufacturing & distribution concerns when the middle class is gone? ... that is their primary customer base... inflation will take place and the whole thing will collapse ...
this ain't no joke... greed & apathy is destroying the financial world...
Disagree as to the root causes of the financial crisis. It lies with poor regulation and poor monetary policy, as I talked about in detail in my earlier posts. It starts with our elected officials, who are bought through our disgraceful campaign finance laws, elected officials who refuse to prosecute those who speculated and broke the law.
kind of correct... regulation and monetary policy is the safety net... (and it did get corrupted) ... the root cause is simple greed and apathy ...
Unfortunate that the root cause, greed and self-interest, is the same thing that makes capitalism so great and rewarded and enabling.
We don't disagree on the elements.
yep... kind of a good evil sometimes... but it does need to be great,rewarding and enabling. for all .. or it will fail
oh... sorry I mis-read your post
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Nah, just trying to understand. Glad I made the thread, been very insightful.
Don't you see the result is everyone being out for themselves. Your statement "I don't owe them anything and will not wave my hand to end their suffering" clarifies the fact that the problem with the poor is they are in poverty, the problem with the rich is they are useless.
Self-interest and the public good are not analogous. The relationship drives innovation i.e. edison and jobs. It moves us into better choices for the environment i.e. big oil's lead role in moving towards alternative energies. Don't be so afraid of the two coexisting.
I see what your saying but today's production is geared to greed, not need.
Hence the responsibility being on our elected officials to properly act as gatekeepers. Our economy was never intended to be laissez faire, it has always been an actively managed, mixed economy. Our leaders have failed us through the repeal of GS, through piss poor tax policy and monetary policy and through our embarrassing campaign finance laws that minimize the voices of the voters.
Its hard to not categorize the whole show as a giant Ponzi scheme, a fraudulent investment operation that the people are mixed up in. I hope you're not proposing more reform?
No more 1%. It's that simple. Share the wealth, meet human needs, and creativity will flourish. The long era of greed is winding down to a messy close.
As long as monetary economics are used rather than resource based economics, greed will continue.
How should I share my wealth and meet human needs beyond what I'm already doing? Suggestions are welcome.
You shouldn't. Not your responsibility. The problem is coming from the huge corporations who have bought our government out from under us. There is simply no way that you can look at the facts and have any other conclusion other than that what they are doing is a form of slavery. As for the individual that goes out and through hard work, luck, and innovation makes his or her fortune, hats off to you. You owe nobody anything.
I wouldn't be so confused if folks told me exactly what they mean when they say share the wealth. Do they mean share the wealth as in providing everyone the same educational opportunities to succeed? If so, we agree. Do they mean open my wallet and start handing out hundreds on the street corner? I don't know.
I do understand and sympathize to a degree how young people feel its so unfair. Right now, I have $150k in my checking accounts, paid that over the span of several weeks. I didn't mop floors or cut grass to make it, I sat in a comfortable desk for the most part, got up occasionally to walk around downtown and took a couple of flights out of town, that's about it.
I often stare at my checking account balance and am completely stumped as to what to do with the money. I'm already near fully invested in the stock market, not willing to put more cash there. Already have real estate holdings, have plenty of cash in there for more purchases. The constant flow of money in is overwhelming at times. I'm still young and this is all very new to me.
That doesn't mean I owe you a handout, though. Life is unfair. To think it should all be rainbows and sunshine is silly. You are responsible for your own decisions, whether it be go to college and take too many loans or take a unmarketable field of study. That's not my fault. I wasn't dealt a very good hand and I made the best of it. Yes, luck played a small role, but my hard work and persistence is what got the job done, I feel.
Congratulations on your success.
You didn't say what your net worth is, but $150K in checking is far from putting you in the 1%. Net worth statistics are much harder to come by than income, but the estimates are a minimum $8 million net worth and up, and those people hold nearly 40% of the wealth in the US. I think it is hard for most of us to fathom how much money they have.
Check Martin Weiss investment services. There is some good advice for perilous times. Think about inverse ETF's , safer currencies (maybe the Swiss franc), and gold if there is a dip.
already been asked and answered. a bit over 2 million, make about 500k/year, this year and last.
a fairly recent increase, made 150k to 300k as an associate. kinda fucks with my head, being paid so much at such a young age.
You have $150k in your checking account? hopefully it's a money market account that makes at least 1% ;)
I appreciate what you're doing on here, a lot of people on here have skewed views but that's okay, it's important for them to fight for what they think is right.
I suggest you tell your friends what everyone else is so upset about.
Personally we just want fairness. We may not pay as much taxes as you, but our group keeps you in business. All that political special interest or bonuses during lay offs is not right.
Historically speaking societies just don't do well when there is this much imbalance. We're not saying to physically balance society. Just don't patronize us and keep saying, trickle down works when they're not trickling (granted why expand in a bad economy). But as the 1% that's the responsibility you as leaders must think about. You must think about the bottom 1% not just say, they didn't work hard (I'm sure you don't say that) or point out that they don't pay taxes (again you don't say that, but your friends do).
It's the responsibility of the upper upper to figure out how to make the whole system work and they're not doing it correctly or fairly.
on all of that, I made $21.09 in interest for october. lol.
agreed. i want fairness too. agreed regarding history, i spoke at the start of the thread about every civilization in modern history with this degree of wealth disparity ending in bloody revolution. cant ignore that.
And the system isn't gamed for the 1%? Perhaps many or most don't want to engage in practices that exploit others for gain. We want a sustainable economy that doesn't destroy people and the environment, and we're willing to imagine doing without the 1% to get there.
Just checked my portfolio. I'm up about $32,500 in paper gains in the past 2.5 hours thanks to the Greek bond writedown, EU compromise and GDP news. Markets rallying hard.
Is that fair? I don't know.
How crass, but honest. No, the 1% gamed system is a dinosaur and must be replaced with a sustainable economy that addresses directly human need without destroying the environment. Your time has passed.
I have a question. Assume the highest tax brackets had the following marginal rates 40% for income over $1 million 60% for income over $10 million 80% for income over $100 million and dividend income was taxed in the same category as wages.
How would that change how much you make, how much you give to your causes, how much you work. In short how would a progressive tax system similar to the system in the early 20th century change your behavior? Do you think it would be good or bad for you and or society overall?
Simple. To maintain a comparable amount of saving as I do now, it would mean I would consume less, invest less and donate less in proportion to whatever my wage growth is. Taxing dividends as wages would be the most costly, in my case. Saving less is really not an option for me, I believe in have ample cash reserves as a safety net, even when the stock market is so cheap as it is now.
It in and of itself wouldn't change what I make, I can't really work any harder than I do now. Such a tax system wouldn't necessarily be bad for society, I just have a problem with the folks in power spending my money on silly things like war. Them wasting it = bad for me.
i agree, the thought that the largest slice of the pie, along with the greatest of human intellect going toward new and better ways of killing people absolutely disgusts me.
I noticed you mentioned you make or clear 500mil a year. Great that you're sympathetic to those who have little to no chance such as minorities, but what incredible hoarding you have going on. And you whine about unemployment benefits being extended. Lazy bastards huh? You really think your amount of "work" equals 500 million a year? Whether you believe it or not, you're a contributor to system that fails the majority. I appreciate your attention here but hoarding wealth and greed is what has brought us to this forum.
Quite the contrary, I dont think those on the unemployment rolls are lazy or bastards. By extending benefits, though, they have no incentive to take the distasteful and uncomfortable jobs that arent being filled now. Taking away extended benefits takes away that unfortunate choice while closing the deficit just a little bit more.
And no, not $500 million. $500,000. It's more than I need and I give away a sizeable portion of it :)
Sir, there are not enough jobs "left" in the US to employ everyone and that is the bottom line! I would love to see your stats from the Workforce Commission or else where on the number of unfilled positions in America. When you are on unemployment you are required to apply for jobs (I am sure some get around this since WFC is very busy and understaffed) and if you are offered a job that is 25% less of your previous job you have to take it. Now I know some are probably using unemployment insurance payments to take a vacation, but they are in for a rude awakening when they look for work again.
Agreed, there are not enough jobs left to pay a living wage in the US. My hope is that they are coming, because corporations are sitting on large cash war chests, particularly large tech companies like IBM, Google, Microsoft and Cisco. The first sign of sustained return of demand for their goods and services and the money will be put to use putting people back to work. The problem is that the recovery is so fragile and so much slower than people have expected, GDP growth from quarter to quarter has been anemic. Today's consumer spending numbers out of the Commerce Dept. showing a surprising uptick was welcomed by Wall Street. I'd like to see more of that into the new year.
We can't rely on Congress or the Fed mingling in the labor markets anymore. Bernanke has flattened the yield curve to ridiculous levels and Congress has filled every single jobs proposal with pork.
There are not enough jobs period from what I understand and there is certainly no security in "high tech" firms. They either manufacturer overseas or they lay off at the drop of the hat if their profits go down. I, personally, believe that the US economy is going down and it is just a matter of time.
Well then people like me are doomed as well, then, if you're right. So at least everyone isn't going down alone, right? :)
So do not forget to take time to smell the roses! Yes, America is in transition to a "less material" lifestyle or you may call it the elimination of the middle class.
A good thing, that is. Our obsession with material goods is unhealthy.
I do agree! The American people though have been "raised" to buy, buy, buy and to keep up with the Jones-es and this transition will be hard on some. America, at least, has been great resource hogs in the past and this is not sustainable. I have never been very materialistic although I do like quality products which costs a lot of money, but as a teenager I promised myself I would never sell my soul for "things" and I have not. Now at age 64 (today), I realize more than ever how unimportant things are. You are very wise young man ... have a wonderful weekend
hi, welcome to the movement, nice to have you around, radical social change is in everyones best interests, i hope you join me on the wiki.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Lemme guess ... are you a drug kingpin? If so, then I guess your POV ain't tax policy, since you don't have to pay any ...
How much money equals a 1%er? A BILLION? More?
it's like $385,000 a year...
In my opinion, 385k does not "sound" like that much. The real problem is that it's only in the 1% which being since only 3% of money is actually physical, it's really the wealthiest of 1%ers (billionaires?) that are hoarding imo. I can imagine being quite satisfied making a 100k a year. But I see so much suffering, so much social inequality, and so much self righteousness for being dealt a good hand in life.
If I didn't know what to do with my excess.... I'd simply go out and feed people. It's not about creating dependency. It's about people with immediate need that have no way of getting out of their situation. I would simply give until I couldn't give anymore. But that's from someone who has never been introduced to wealth. Money changes people.
Does anyone really believe that the current distribution of wealth makes sense, will last much longer without causing rebellion, is really good for anyone? This sort of thing has happened throughout history. Happens today in African Kleptocracies, Middle East and Southeast Asian Monarchies. Eventually the corruption creates it's own destruction.
Hey, onepercentguy. I congratulate you on your successes and your giving back to your community moreso, but would ask you to please not categorize the protestors as lazy 20-somethings with their hands out for charity. That's certainly not the case with teachers or any number of highly educated, hard working people who are no longer able to call themselves "middle class". The last 25 years of "trickle down" economic theory has brought to remnants what was once a growing and strong middle class, and the privatization of student loans and health care is making it worse for the future. Since you graduated, the cost of a college education in California has doubled or more from state university. Without job sponsored health insurance, most people are one emergency away from debt. These are real problems in our runaway capitalist state. I do not begrudge you your earned affluency, but you're not the targeted 1% here anyway (try the CEO's who got bonuses after running their companies and our economy into the ground). The vast majority of people here just want the hyper-wealthy to pay their fair share, not continue to get breaks through Bush's tax breaks. Profits are up, wages are stagnant and no new jobs are being created. This is not equitable, and this is what drives people outside your office window to protest. That and sh*tty bank practices, predatory lending, etc...but that's enough from me.
If college education costs so much, don't go? No one is forcing anyone to go, nor is anyone being forced to enter into student loan agreements that they know will be impossible to repay.
Go to a cheap trade school and learn a marketable trade. They're begging for more HVAC guys all across the south, you can easily make 50-100k a year doing that in Texas here. Go to a cheaper community college.
This idea that college is a birthright and for everyone is silly. College is a privilege. A privilege earned by our grandparents who fought in WWII and benefitted from the GI Bill, and a privilege earned by our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan today.
With all due respect you are somewhat in la la land.
college is not a birthright....but it is the prerequisite for getting any sort of job that pays above a certain bracket. I am sorry, but there are only a set number of HVAC jobs this country can possibly have and once they are filled you still have several million people to go.
You can't become a teacher without a college degree and you can't even get a license with just a high school diploma. This country is screaming for teachers. You can't really go into nursing with just a h.s. diploma as even the most basic nursing program is a 2 year degree-this country is screaming for nurses. Education should not be the provenance of the wealthy, sir, but that is exactly what it is becoming, more and more. Not everyone can be a Harvard trained economist, you are correct. But how as a society are we going to survive if we build more jails than schools? Have more rag pickers than nurses? When many schools are so poorly funded that just becoming a plumber will eventually be out of reach (as it is already in the inner city?)
I don't claim college as a birthright, and in fact have no degree. I earn enough through skilled trade to get by within my means and honestly do not aspire to make 100k/year. What I'm trying to point out is the absurdly high cost of said degree. The increase in college costs has absolutely dwarfed inflation, the change in cost of living, and most importantly the living wage changes these past several years. It's not a birthright by any angle, but it's quickly become a financial impossibility for many people without taking out insane, private (predatory) loans. Trade schools and community colleges are fine enough, but that still doesn't really explain the pricing of state universities into the hemisphere. And the graduates of those options have will be blue collar pretty much their whole lives. Since that's a background you chose to migrate from and into white collar world, it seems odd that you suggest others to follow that path. I'm not arguing with you, just stating that the advantages and opportunities you (and I) had even a decade ago are no longer there.
Years ago when the jobs were starting to leave the country, People I shared this concern with said not to worry that government envisioned America to be the primary creator on new technology and that we would become the leaders in a global economy.
The problem is that in order to allow this to unfold, college expenses should have been reduced enough so many people would have a opportunity to obtain higher education.by getting a degree in college.
Great ideas and innovators is a random process in the gene pool so the solution is to enable as many young people the chance to go to college. The system did not reduce costs but increased them and this you can blame on government.
Fair enough. I still maintain that its a good thing. So many worthless degrees out there from meh schools devalue my degree, I think. There's nothing wrong with learning a trade and making money as opposed to studying sociology from a not-so-reputable school and going into debt because of it.
True again. That said however, nothing would make me happier than to see the field of education rewarded more financially. Getting certification and a masters is not cheap anywhere in this country, and the wages are well below decent compensation. They instruct your children and see them awake as many if not more hours of the week than parents do. It would behoove this country to respect and reward that profession enough so that the best minds and motivators are drawn to work there. It's an investment, you know.
But university budgets aren't balanced by abstract ideas and flowery speeches about the virtues of educators. Tax revenues are down, state funding dries up, more students are attending. Something has to give, hard decisions have to be made. It's that simple.
I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.
So then...where has the money gone? The fed isn't supporting the states so the states cut funding to the schools (not universities, but grade/middle/high schools)? What kind of logic was there in both lowering taxes (fed revenue) and deploying however many troops overseas for a decade (fed expenses)? Especially in Iraq, which is almost a duplicate of the 1980's "Blood for Oil" campaign.
Whether you agree with that assessment of the Iraq operation or not, tax revenues should not have gone down these past several years. It's a simple idea; to take in as much revenue as is proposed to go out, but the past 25 years of fed gov haven't figured that out. Just where this lowered revenue is spent has been to take from the lower class' needs and social programs as well as education, and give it to the military, and big business/bank bail-out for the most part. This goes on top of the tax loopholes already given to "investors" who traded junk and false values to get us into the housing mess.
Wall Street deserved the recession, not the bail-out. GM built crappy cars that no-one wanted to buy, they didn't deserve a bail-out. Banks? Should never have gotten "too big to fail". Putting faith in Wall Street and big business to "self-regulate" gave us 2008's crash. And public schools lose their funding because they are low on the priority list, which is beyond a sad portrait of this country and it's values. I tire of seeing those who f-ed up the economy get off pretty much without punishment, and then pass out bonuses to their CEOs, while grade school classrooms get more crowded and the teachers get no raises and lose the weak benefits they may have had.
I did see in another post that you are not against univeral health care. You gained a respect point there. Thank you for that, and for your continued, civil conversation. It's appreciated.
I'm not against universal health care as a concept. I think health care is probably the best way to measure a society's character. Because nationalized health care of any kind is guaranteed to be a massively expensive albatross that is full of inefficiencies and waste. But yet a society chooses to do it anyway out of moral duty. Medicine should not a be a commodity that only the well off can afford, it should be available to one and all with no preferences. It is an entitlement program we should be paying for. Namely, I should be helping pay for.
The devil, of course, is in the details. Non-emergency care in places like Canada could take weeks, months if you're looking for a specialist out in the sticks. Then again, no one in Canada's going bankrupt over hospital bills. And I'm not the biggest fan of the way Obama wants people like me to pay for all of it, but I shouldnt be surprised.
I'm also for the government paying cash grants to certain people (drug offenders, poor southern women, etc.) to get their tubes tied. For obvious reasons.
It's called the elimination of the middle class!
onepercentguy, I have two questions. 1) Why 99% have been penalized for the mortgage scandal, and the 1% who created the scandal are getting bonuses. 2) You can also be the 1% by starting a ponzi scheme. Would you like to start one.
Well, I disagree that it was just the 1% that created the scandal. Greenspan did the most damage, his easy money monetary policies after the dot com implosion made it easy for people to buy houses they couldn't afford and the politicians failed to respond with more stringent regulation regarding mortgage securitization, among other shit.
Those in the elite who were too speculative and broke the law should be prosecuted by the justice department and rotting in jail next to Jeff Skilling and Bernie Madoff, I think. But for some reason, our current president and our previous president refuse to prosecute. I don't for the life of me know why.
Finally, those that are underwater on their loans and those who were foreclosed on who bought their homes after 2001 on a sub-prime loan, I have zero sympathy for. You bought something you knew you couldn't afford and you helped contribute to the meltdown. Folks who bought their homes previously or who had the credit to get a better, traditional 15/30yo mortgage, I sympathize with and they deserve more help from lenders and the regulators.
But that's just my POV.
That is the point. The system allows the 1% to cheat 99%. The system uses tax money collected from 99% to bail out the 1%. *This system needs to be changed.
Do you feel the folks who bought homes they knew they couldn't afford on variable rate loans are blameless? I don't, that's all. We all should be held accountable for our decisions, 1% or not, naw mean.
If they were more responsible and less speculative with their own finances, this would have never happened.
Jumping in for a minute, I don't feel much sympathy for the people who bought in on a house when they knew it was "too good to be true". If it sounds like it's a trap, it's probably a trap.
Still, that doesn't excuse Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from offering the insane rates and loans. How could they not expect a shit-ton of defaults?
And who appraised these houses for the preposterous values they were listed for? Shouldn't they also be held somewhat responsible for the number of foreclosed properties?
I agree that home buyers should have been more responsible with their own finances, but the loan officers who offered and approved on them should be fired and forced to retake some economics classes. The appraisers who over valued properties should be punished with their own home going underwater and losing 1/2 its value as well. Home buyers lived in a fantasy world, but they did not create it. That was courtesy of the banks/etc.
Why bail out the 1% ??
Answer the question, show me the same courtesy I have shown your questions :) Do you feel those people are blameless?
And no, we should not bail out anyone, but we do because of the systemic risk boogie man. Which I think is a cop out.
The 1% plant lucrative schemes, LURE 99% and TRAP them. *ALL cheaters use the same trick.
are you asking to start a ponzi scheme? I'll do it!! I'd do ANYTHING to get billions of dollars. Even clog the streets and waste time yelling.
makes sense to me
This is why I believe in OWS: http://occupywallst.org/forum/ive-already-said-it-before-but-here-it-is-again-fo/ What I'm curious about is where you stand on the matter and why...
Oh, you came from blue collar family? You have a job? All sounds very yucky, I hope when you say grad school you mean an ivy league school. You would have been a joke at an ivy league school, being from a blue collar family and all but still I hope you didn't have to go to a state school.
Went to a state school for undergrad, another state school for law school. So I fit in just fine.
Fit in where you say your not a 99%er and the 1% won't claim you. So where do you fit in?
Oh, I don't care if the 1% won't claim me. I don't live like I'm in the 1%. I live in the same McMansion I bought five years ago, no need to buy something I can afford when I don't need the room. I take pride in my frugality, so it's all good.
You have to be careful on this site onepercent. Unfortunately it no longer represents the true picture of the OWS movement. Far too much BS, troublemakers, disinfo, various biases, people trying to derail the movement. It's become a serious problem. You probably gathered that from some of these totally uncalled-for responses from what was a sincere question. In fact, much of the serious discussion has already left this unmonitored site for more fertile grounds. We need sincere members from the upper crust. I have a few links: http://themultitude.org/ http://occupyr.com/ http://citicommons.com/
Oh, I noticed that early. Figured out what a troll is lol. I kinda like the trolling, watching serious people flip out at it and take the bait is entertaining.
Just wanted to generate good discussion, no big deal.
The point is . . . . since you seem to be a little slow on the uptake. You come in hear ready to spout off, and you don't even have so little knowledge as to understand who is 1% and who is 99%. Your 99%. And before you go hitting the keyboards about a subject and proclaiming yourself to be something your not. Why don't you step away from the TV and do a little research? That way your wouldn't have to look like such an idiot. (not that you are). But like I said you look like one when you post a comment that clearly demonstrates that you don't have even a basic understanding of the subject. I am sure you are a nice guy just under/misinformed.
I thought the top 1% of income is right around $400k/year, if I recall correctly. I pulled in about $500k last year and the year before.
If not, oh well. Mea culpa, no big deal.
What branch of law are you in sir? Criminal, Business, etc.. How much do your para legals make who I know work their butts off too? Could you make that $500k without the para legals?
I mostly do corporate and and intellectual property. Our senior paralegals make about as much as our junior associates do, which is well over $100k. And they deserve every penny, which is why I gladly pay them that much. No, I could not make the $500k without them or without my secretary or associates, who are also paid very well.
Onepercentguy you might want to change your screen name very inaccurate their is a web site called executive pay watch on it you can find CEOs who where the top 100 earners last year. The lowest paid CEO on the list made more than seven time your total worth last year alone. As a matter of fact he makes your net worth every week. He's the runt of the liter. Imagine how far over you the number one guy reins.
Good for them. I aspire to be that successful someday.
Honestly, I feel very blessed. I have more money than I'll ever realistically need.
Bro, let's start a business. Message me.
Said the guy who still lives in his parents basement and wishes he were rich. :)
Really, I thought you wanted to be a 1%er?
Why do you need to be that successful someday? Why isn't $500k enough? Why does anyone need $500k a year to live a simple, clean life?
I ask myself that frequently. Sometimes I wonder if I should just retire and be a gentleman of leisure.
Then I realize I really like my job, a really like helping people and I really like having the power an attorney has in bringing out that kind of help.
I suppose when I don't enjoy it anymore, I'll stop. We'll see. I don't really measure my self worth by how much I make, I measure it with job satisfaction.
Curious as to what kind of help do you provide people at your job?
A little bit of everything. I've represented the elderly, disabled and poor in keeping their housing, temporary or permanent. Represented news organizations who's first amendment rights have been stepped on by the government. I've represented old ladies who've had their entire life savings ripped off by others, usually family memebrs and/or business partners. Provided free legal service through a legal clinic for those below the poverty line.
Well, alright then ... (-: I know that lawyers are "a dime a dozen" as they say and many do not do as well as you. So I guess you are blessed!
Or you could give the janitor a raise! lol Good night young man ...
Would it be possible to get larger companies to focus on quality education? I know the majority of high tech outsourcing is a human resources issue. What would it take to get a few of you guys together to change up public education. Im a neuropsychology major and one of my pet interests has become education. I understand the problem, and I think people want solutions handed to them without them having to work for it. It could be that the next generation can be saved from this mass degenerative thinking if we take responsibility for the welfare of our fellow man. Feel free to pm me if you think that a plan could be developed and presented to various owners and chairs of larger companies to reconstruct or replace the current educational system.
Thanks for stepping out and letting your voice be herd.
that is not the problem... the problem is that there is no capital available to create jobs
Eh, disagree. There's capital out there, people and institutions are just too gunshy to put it to work.
I wish the fed would stop with its shenanigans and let this labor and housing market sort itself out. Ever changing monetary policy by the fed and tax policy by Congress is like moving the goalposts every quarter.
oh... there's capital there... but it's not available for anyone or anything that wishes to support the middle class... what's going on is economic genocide ... and the housing market ? ... that will be gone for 20 yrs if the middle class are not allowed to get back in the game...
Disagree. I see such capital expenditures targeting the middle class every day in work and in my investments. Its just not fast enough to everyone's satisfaction ... yet.
hope so... but we still need to "Get The Money Out Of Politics" or it will repeat itself...
there is no capital available to create low level jobs. The ones a bachlors degree in lib arts would prepare you for. There is plenty of money for jobs in the maths and sciences.
sure... where?
No, I don't think it has anything to do with larger companies in and of themselves regarding education. The responsibility lies with our elected officials and they have failed miserably due, in large part, to our disgraceful campaign finance laws, which allow Vendor X to outbribe Vendor Y, etc.
I don't plan on ever running for state judge here, the idea of raising campaign funds and declaring a party sickens me.
bingo!
only solution is to take ALL MONEY OUT of politics
NO ADVERTISING ALLOWED - only free open, public broadsides and debates
anyone complaining of being denied free speech rights by not being permitted to purchase advertising for their favorite candidate would be offered the opportunity to write a book to be photocopied and placed in every public library in their state for at least 3 months - if the author can get it published, more power... - another option is to be offered the privilege to produce a media program to be aired 5 times on their local public access TV or public radio station - beyond that, they too can run for office, write or blog or make internet videos or demonstrate or perform... anything to creatively voice their opinion
Its not that they are responsible for the problem, its that they are the most capable of fixing it. These poor people dont have a chance.....
Some poor people don't have a chance. Blacks and Hispanics I most sympathize with, many are simply born into impossible situations with no opportunity.
Other poor people are too lazy in spite of having adequate opportunities, therefore choose to be poor. Don't really care about them too much.
I didnt mean poor as in money, I meant poor as in character. I am poor, I work hard to make a life for my kids and I. I focus on the future and how I can make things better for my children and I. I put the responsibility on myself to have the choices I want in life. My aunt once told me that life is about choices and consequences. I think that one sentence is what saved me. it meant that if I want something, I have to make the choices that support that desire.
Ah, I see. Fair enough.
Well if a few major corporations got together to out bribe the teachers union (do you know how much money they spend to keep the current crappy system in place), something could be done. That wouldnt be the most effecient or cost effective method though.
This is the idea, an oversight education panel could be established like Corporations for Education or something. Ways of making the operation lucrative would be the use of advertising in schools, school merchandising, and sports. You could even capitalize on student talent. Profits would be reinvested in the school and used to recover funds from the initial investment....what do you think?
Terrible idea. Our education system is not centralized unlike the Germans or Japanese. Any true, widespread reform lies with coordination of the states, at best.
Anyway, I am sympathetic to the plight of college aged ppl today. I graduated from undergrad the December after 911 and the job market was shit then, too. Went to law school rather than try to get a job.
I wish OWS success, we need uprisings in the streets to really show our displeasure. I find it hard to take OWS seriously in the long term, though. Not really organized, so no way to hold themselves accountable in any way. The guys I see outside my office are like 20 years old and are holding signs about the banks giving "me back my fucking money" ... what money are they talking about? They haven't really paid anything yet and if anything its all of my money that I should be asking for back, God knows I pay enough for so many other people and then some.
OPG, I've been checking out this thread and I appreciate your openness and honesty. wish we had more people like you on this forum.
anyway, i want to ask you for your thoughts if OWS pushed for building a "local movement" in communities across the country. this 'localism' effort would help support and build local institutions, businesses and manufacturing within the framework of a local economy as pushback against corporations. OWS can provide networking opportunities and resources for each community address issues and concerns particular to them that align with the larger overarching goals that is nonpartisan inclusive and in the larger sense to reconnect and support each other on a person to person level rather than the person to corporate relationship in all manners of our lives from our banks, shopping, healthcare and education. Not saying, we should eschew all corporations in our lives - that would not be possible, but we can support those corporations that have invested in a local community which some consciously try to do. i think this local movement can parallel OWS in the sense that both have grassroots participation and can filter and refine its message through an organic process over time. we can make an immediate impact with this bottoms up approach while defining our collective message to Washington and Wall Street as we build and support 'local economies' in our communities. i guess, my question is - would you support such an approach if OWS adopted such a position?
I would support such an initiative but we both know OWS is not nearly organized or accountable enough for any such thing to happen.
Surprise me, I guess.
I will do all I can to push this message because I think it is the path to address a lot of our problems from oil dependence, our industrial food system, or loss of local businesses/manufacturing, and that's just to start. If we believe in it, we should all try to make a difference, especially with your wealth and influence. Perhaps a bit utopian but we got to do something to change the current system.
Yea, Im going into neuroscience research. Pretty much all I have to do is study my butt off and Ill have a job by the end of it guaranteed. I feel blessed though. Not everyone has my aptitude.
I hate to tell you, your not even close to a 1%er. As a matter of fact the 1% wouldn't let your broke ass walk their dog. Rothchild is a 1%er and he is worth 300 trillion.
Considering the richest people on earth have net worths in billions your "trillion" comment further highlights your ignorance....thanks....also look up 1 percent.....390k a year to be included...heck I made that at 28.....you hate billionaires' .01 percent.....as long as they are not liberals like Soros.........do you all think we got here being ignorant? If so I'd rather be ignorant in your eyes, because your "smart" puts you in a camp in a public park. I am doing a bit better.......sorry
Also I forgot to mention that Rockefeller is worth nearly 35 trillion. By the way just cause it anint in Forbes don't mean it aint so.
Hope you take some time to research Rothchild don't take my word for it as you say I may very well be ignorant.
Better do some research. I wrote Rothchild worth 300 trillion and I am absolutely correct. I never said I hate billionaires where did you get that? Do I think you got hear being ignorant? Yes about some things. I am not in a park and you have no idea about my economic status. Here are some documenteries I have watched I think you would enjoy and find informative. Finance: Born Rich Breaking the Bank Capitalism A Love Story College Inc I want your Money Inside The meltdown IOUSA Maxed Out Mind Over Money Money Masters Speaking Freely Ten Trillion and Counting The American Ruling Class The Best Government Money Can Buy The Big One The Card Game The Corporation The Madoff Affair The Warning Trading on Thin Air
Politics: After Innocence An Inconvenient tax An Unreasonable Man Burzynski Business of Being Born Can Mr. Smith Get to Washington anymore Casino Jack Electile Dysfunction Flow Freedom Fries Ken Burns America the Congress The American drug War XXI Century
Medicine/Health: Business of Being Born Fed Up Food Beware Food Matters King Corn Medicated Cheap Panama Deception Power and Terror Sick Around the World Speaking Freely vol.2 Speaking Freely vol.4 Speaking Freely vol.5 Hugo Chevez The Big One The Most Dangerous Man In America The War on Democracy Thirst Vaccine War
Your obviously very smart but watching all of these will give you some additional insight into finance, politics, and medicine. If by chance you have seen them all I can recommend some more and some books if you prefer to read.
Good job; go enjoy the fruits of your labors
Btw...all you fools using Apple products...and hating corporate "greed" I hope you know Apple is one of the worlds largest public companies...huge outsourced oh and when Jobs was made CEO he eliminated the entire corporate charity program to focus on....yes...profits....so you children have your iPods and computers that you now use to claim it is wrong. If you want no capitalism..pls read about east Germany......north Korea, or go live in Cuba......
i agree with you in some part but the whole Cuba thing kinda harsh
What is your net worth?
Total assets ... probably $2 million. It's fluctuated due to the market this year, obviously.
AND it could be gone in a blink of an eye ...
Perhaps. I doubt it, so much of it it in precious metals and cash that I won't touch.
Smart! Precious metals is good. I do not know about the dollar bill though ... lol
what do you accomplish other than making money ?
We provide financing for companies, the capital that they use to grow and expand, research and create new products and services. Advise CEOs on the best way to raise capital so they can expand their "evil" businesses, create jobs.....most people do work at companies oh..and support my family. What do you do besides not make it?
oh... I've made my share... do you invest in any ventures that do not have collateral to cover the investment ?
Nothing much, I really enjoy my job and it does take up much of my time and effort. I am active in the community, have the means to be philanthropic and have an immediate impact on my community, which is very gratifying. Volunteer at my church, etc.
do you believe that wealth is being extracted from the country?
In what sense? Do I feel guilty that I make so much money? No, I worked for it, every penny. Do I feel bad that the wealth gap is so wide? Of course, and I would like the key causes of it to be addressed. Do I think the key causes of the wealth gap are being addressed? No. It's education and opportunity and work ethic that are required. So I do not agree with some OWS participants who think I should open my checkbook and start handing out hundreds. To blame the rich for being rich is misguided, because not all of us inherited our wealth. But that's just my opinion.
I'm sure you know it's possible to work in excess of 40 hours per week and not make enough to afford rent, food and essentials let alone save for a college education for ones kids. The "work ethic" comment stings to be honest...People can work very hard and still barely make a living. There may be justifications for why wages have remained stagnant over the years while the price of everything else goes up. But living that reality is different than making a cold calculation that one type of labor be valued at a rate 10-1000 times more than another type of labor.
Agreed. I'm not lumping the poor into one, gray mass. All of my concern and attention in terms of providing more opportunties is with the "working poor."
And I'm not naive enough to think that even within the working poor, there are there for various reasons. Some didn't have the same opportunities as others to succeed due to race or family situation or whatever. Some did have opportunity and by the time they realized they blew it, it was too late. No shades of gray there, I guess.
btw... the members here are not blaming the rich... they are blaming the criminals that are destroying our country and our economy...
Brad, honestly......I've been here for a bit, reading every last line discerning truthful exhalations and the Insincere. Delineated areas are very gray.
well.. this site is the front.. the trenches... maybe visit some of the other official sites .. such as http://www.occupytogether.org ...
I don't know. I talk to some of the protesters outside my office frequently. Some try to draw the same narrow distinction that you are, which I agree with. Most of them are just pissed they are unemployed and penniless and are impossible to talk to past that. It makes me sad.
hehe.. it sounds like you have joined the 99%... we are all sad... but we will make it change...
Not really. I don't believe in handouts and so many of the folks I see outside work want just that and they're unapologetic about it. Every extension in unemployment benefits irritates me.
you still don't get it... nobody wants handouts.. they want jobs
So being handed a job is not a handout?
Disagree. If unemployment benefits were not being extended into perpetuity, people would have no choice but to take those McDonalds orders and scrub those urinals. Jobs that are going unfilled right now. Basic services jobs.
People need to swallow their pride and do what's right, I think. I had no problem doing those jobs in school and if I ever were unfortunate enough to lose my money, I'd be right back in there, no problem.
It's socially degrading to have a shit job scrubbing urinals. You might have done it as a young person, we all start at the bottom, but you would NEVER do it now. And by what comparison did you work for every penny. There's no way you can possibly get to the top 1% without hoards of folk getting screwed. That's the system. It rewards greed and dishonesty. It's not equal. It's based on perpetuated scarcity of money. If you are a 1%er, you are hoarding wealth. Unless I am incorrect.
1%ers make money off simply having money while poor people pay higher interest rates to cover the tops interest payments. Studies also show that if you are born into money or born into poverty... you're pretty much guaranteed to stay there.
You want jobs, but only jobs you won't feel bad about having. Lol. Oh well, I disagree.
Most would say being an attorney is a socially degrading job, heh.
you'll be back
I completely agree with you onepercentguy. You are an honest american who earned every cent by working hard to attain success. I applaude you. If people would just read what you say and try to develop their lives by your example, that education and work ethic are required, then less people would be marching in an already crowded city clogging the streets, and instead would be reading books and improving their lives in a constructive way.
most of the 99% already have degrees
well... then you sound like the majority of us here.. you should read more of the posts... maybe from other sites also .. such as http://www.occupytogether.org ... best wishes ..b
I'm 29, investment banker at top firm. Worked my ass of to get here, these people sicken me. If I sat in a park all day playing I'd never have made it. I earned my money, I didn't steal nor commit crimes. Why are these people so foolish....Marxism does not work....you have to be motivated. Please ask questions.
Eh, I admit it is easy to write them all off as foolish children. But stepping out of yourself and rising above their hatred of you and your status and income, its impossible to deny the validity of some of their grievances. Dialogue and civility can't hurt.
Its not like people on wall street like yourself are the only ones that work hard. get that straight. you chose to work there so if you work 80 to 100 hours each week, thats your problem. and not everyone wants to become an investment banker. if you havent noticed, some people would rather become teachers, firemen, designers and still have a decent life. the way the cards are stacked, everyone needs to raise their kids to work on wall street and that is world that has no future.
Agreed, that's why I have more than you. So what is the problem
you dont get it and never will. good luck to you.
What would it take to get corporations to fix the education problem.
What do you make?
gold and medlas would be my answer to that question
What have you done to crash-proof your portfolio vis a vis the upcoming Eurozone collapse?
Nothing. My opinion is that the generational crash was the 2008 financial crisis, so I did almost all of my buying the following spring and summer. This summer's pullback has been a buying opportunity, I believe, so I've been slowly adding to my positions.
if you're right, did you earn your gains through skill? if you're wrong, was it bad luck or does it confirm you have no skill?
Well, I don't really think I'm that's skilled. I just invest when things are on sale and I just hang onto it. I buy value stocks, mostly. I don't really trade actively or speculate.
Berkshire Hathaway and Apple have been very very kind to me. Even through the crisis.
I love commodities over the next couple years, some of them really pulled back a lot.
Agreed. I don't think the devaluation of the dollar is near over. QE3 is in the bag, barring a miracle resolution to Greece and a quick turnaround in corporate earnings. Which so far this earnings season has been muddled to say the least.
Gold was the way to go a couple years ago. Its going up and I knew it would when they started advertising for people to send in their gold. That was an easy prediction that I wish I would have taken advantage of :(
If you believe in devaluation of the dollar and hyperinflation, then you should be buying rental properties. You can find 30 year money at less than 5% and have immediate cash flow. The beauty of it is that in an inflationary environment, the FCF growth will exceed inflation. I've been buying apartment buildings, single family homes, etc. and there are no shortage of renters right now. The easiest way to lose money in the world is to buy commodities at inflated prices as an inflation hedge. It just doesn't seem to work out to well for most people. The one commodity that I would look into, however, would be oil companies. Good dividends and, since oil is denominated in dollars (for now), devaluation of the dollar will result in higher prices per barrel of oil and a subsequent rise in the price of oil. A lot of these companies are cheap right now. Stay with the big names and CNOOC (Chinese). Do not buy metals as there are always a lot of skittish speculators and too many variables.
do you any need any good construction help that is willing to travel?
Follow the storms. Type in "hail storm" in google news and, if you can travel, you will find work. They still need help in Joplin, Missouri and in Tuscaloosa, Alabama (particularly after they scared every latino out of the state) after last summer's tornadoes. If you know how to run tree trimming equipment, then you look at the northeast....we're about to get whomped.
yeah, you are right there. thanks
You sound like a capitalist to me.....buying cheap homes then renting to those who cannot afford to own or were foreclosed on.......btw considering us shale reserves..oil will stay in dollars
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What would you do if you today was your last day to live and you have the freedom to do what ever you like?
I'd invite as many friends and family over as possible and enjoy their company for the day.
I would do the same plus have a big ass party and I'm buying the rounds of drinks cause I won't need my cash when the sun come around next time. Hell I might go max out a credit card or two.
what is the square root of 26 Trillion Dollars that's How much you owe us
Great goal. Amass money. There are rappers whose income dwarfs yours and they brag less. There are restaurants that won't let you in because you don't earn enough. You aren't even slightly special. What is special is what you do with the money and how you obtained it.
U jelly?
Yeah. It's me, Jelly, your long lost husband. You owe me half your wealth.
I think I'm gonna buy that $8,000 watch tomorrow. And then soonafter throw the empty box at a homeless person while kackling with glee.
You will. You don't have 8 cents. You make no sense. You are senseless. You sense me?
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I've read your post, I doubt that your even in the top 10%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLUpGGmku8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMrnx6nkRw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wg1bH6-1YY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgKS4i-u0OM
http://www.reverbnation.com/Killumination
Donate!!!
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=NKRL8TGE95H2Y
will you pay taxes today as were paid in Year 1964 Top Federal Income Tax Rates on Regular Income 91% Highest Income Tax Tier $200,000 Top Rate on Capital Gains 25%
Are you still at this? I hope the Koch brothers give you a Golden Gate tonight.
Hey Folks! onepercentguy has been planted here to keep you guys very busy, squabbling back and forth while the elite laugh and keep going with their agenda. I've put my post on here 4 times and they've all been pulled because I mention the elite by name. What they're doing to you is called subterfuge....."controlled opposition". Its one of their favorite tactics! Don't fall for it! onepercentguy can't help us in any way!
Your fellow human being
Leynna
what did you post? i'll be glad to answer any question you may have.
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The idea of the banks recovering the loss thru selling the property is, at this time, ludicrous
Idea: Banks should be required to ' Suspend' payments and interest accumulation if a person loses their job during an 'economic downturn' until that person finds a comparable paying job or until the national unemployment rate is less than 5%.
You illuminati fuck why are you poisoning our skies food and water answer me that. You're not even in the 1% the devil is in the 1% and if you don't know SATAN the man who owns money and has no COUNTRY then you are not in the 1%. WE need to expose the REAL 1% which is the illuminati.
Yeah I got a question for you 1%: Ginger or Maryanne?
The 1% is a metaphor for those who control our economy and political system.
You sir, I suspect, participate in the control of neither.
You are likely one of us, whether you like it or not.
I am one of you. Why would I not like that?
Is it true you 1%ers gather at the racquet ball courts on Friday afternoons to protest the outrageous incomes of the .1%ers?
I don't play racquetball. I train BJJ and race go karts lol.
Is it true 1%ers eat hot fudge sundaes for breakfast?
I wouldn't know. I had a bagel with peanut butter and green tea.
Our managing partner, who makes far more than I do, had cheese crackers and a dr pepper.
He must be slumming.
I am so glad my parents raised me so well. They came from nothing. I mean absolutely nothing and became millionaires. Good for them. They gave me a great Childhood and paid for my college education. I am so very grateful to them for that. After that I started with nothing and married my husband and we both had the same drive and motivation. We are just as successful as my parents. We never got a hand out. We both knew what we wanted and went out and got it. America is about opportunity. No matter where you come from you can make something of your life. It is your choice! Don't blame anybody else for your position. Trust me, my husband and I both lost our jobs within a day of each other. We were in a very bad position for a very long time. But we both believed in each other and we are in a better place than we were before.
Point of fact, you did not start with "nothing". Your college was paid for. Congratulations for making the right choices and not wasting the opportunity so many do not have.
Did you become millionaires by not lying, stealing, cheating or taking advantage of people?
gimme some money before we all gang up and take it by force
No worries, you're already taking an enormous chunk of my income. Which I'm glad to pay. I have more, I should pay a larger percentage of my income.
The question is, how much more will you guys take before I lose all incentive to work so hard and make so much money? I'm curious to find out.
i am sure we can force you to work and take your income
Swing low, sweet chariot ...
Ain't that the truth. America has always had slavery. Those who work who pay for those who don't.
beardy = right-wing troll. You = same?
What time is it?
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Is it true that you are the spawn of satan and have stolen lazy people's money oh so evil one?
Yes it is.
Please read the article for further insight. Have a nice day!
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/04/30/217381/we-are-wall-street-we-are-smarter-and-more-vicious-than-dinosaurs/
Learn what investment bankers do....we are not mortgage brokers. I implore you to educate yourself so when we are older it's not my kids hiring yours....America is not perfect, but it's the best thing we have so far, nowhere has communism worked. watching v for vendetta and listening to multi millionaire michael Moore is not going to make the world better. We are smart, very smart, love our families, give to charity, are good men and woman, good dads and moms - why do you hate us because we have become wealthy. I was born middle class and got here. Why can't you? What is wrong with you that makes you not able to succeed?
It's not possible for EVERYONE to succeed in this flawed system. But everyone I know who's done "very well for themselves" seems to think everyone who can't get a job, just doesn't want one bad enough. Lemme guess... you weren't born black or latino???
the problem lies in the people who were born poor. There are allot of us. Many dont have the parents I did to educate them outside of what is offered in school. I consider myself fortunate because I have seen both sides of the coin. You dont know how blessed you are.
Louis Blankfein...CEO of gold man was born dirt poor in a housing project......don't blame where you started.....get somewhere on your own.....
extreme exceptions, not the rule.
That may be true, but you have a hard time picking up sarcasm
How does it feel to lack all understanding of your fellow man? Also, how much of a trust fund did daddy give you? Do you suck caviar after you clean the Santorum off your partner's cock? Thought so.
You wonder why you are unhappy.....classy man...classy...argue with facts not silly insults. I feel sorry you are so angry and uninformed. I hope you get help.
Inform me. Explain to me whether the Laffer curve is a joke or has some evident validity. Describe to me "The Great Compression," the factors leading to it, and why you are so intent on rolling back everything that led to a vibrant middle class. Give me strong evidence that tax cuts, particularly for the wealthy, has ever led to true economic gains. What facts do you work from? I have read everything from Friedman to Krugman and I know that some little spoiled ideologue like you will not work from the basis of reality, so go back to your Santorum, unless you actually want to learn what will work.
Really? Is this what passes for intelligent debate in this country now. I am not rich, not anwhere close to it, and I think you sound like a spoiled brat that is mad because someone might have more than you. I am "happy" that is what matters, and money can not buy happiness, you guys have been fed a bunch of BS, and now you are mad because those that fed you the BS couldn't back it up, and now instead of legitimately blaming them, instead you blame others, who those same people that fed you the BS tell you to blame. You people are nothing more than robots, and for the most part it is your fault you are in this situation. I tried to be sympathetic, and give this a chance, but all I see is a 3 ringed circus institued and led by those same people that have screwed all of you over. What a joke.
did I argue economics? No..also, don't think you sound intelligent by taking macro economic 101 themes and using supply side buzz phrases to cover up you blatant ignorance. What you said is like me asking you if you are an expert one baseball and you saying you know all about Babe Ruth.....I'm not some kid in the park....wake up. Also, Santorum is a made up word to insult a former senator. I will however argue....if you read all these books...from Adam Smith to Keynes, the Friedman you will see that there have been huge gains....I dunno, industrial revolution...(smith) is a simple example a nitwit can understand. Try again child
You do ramble when you're flustered, don't you. I asked you to educate me. Tell me how we can increase a company hiring when tax breaks didn't do a damn thing under George Bush? Explain to me how to increase return on investment in a deflationary spiral? Who is you favorite economist and why? Educate me, pawn of the oppressor.
It's not about theory.....it's about not sitting in a park and complaining. I Iike Keynes, believe Veblen and hate Sachs....but it's about working through the cyclicality that defines this economy and always has. You feel free to opine on theory. I will keep working my ass off. No theory is the gold standard, it's about taking the themes from each paradigm shift of theoretical analysis and applying it to a random market. Its sad you have guts and a view, which I respect, you just are too tied up on theory and not application. gatsby never figured out that daisy was a dream, so is your economic view. The world is not fair..but hard work had driven success and innovation for generations and always will. Join us...at least the 53 percent who actually pay taxes
Everyone, everyone, pays taxes. The fact that half of our population, after deductions for kids and their mortgage, doesn't have enough left over to actually have enough left to tax is kinda revealing in itself. Nevertheless, those individuals still pay payroll taxes, state taxes, sales taxes, and etc. that tend to be very regressive.
I am on this board because I have come to believe that there is an entire extension to almost every industry in America that is dedicated to screwing the hell out of poor people. That is not theory, that is application. When you see predatory credit offers, payday loans, ITT tech advertisements, and etc. you begin to grow a bit cynical about what the Republican party has become. Believe me, Teddy Roosevelt, Barry Goldwater, and even Ronald Reagan all had the germs of a good idea. But each of these men would be decimated by the Tea Party and the current Republican mind-set.
I reject this "predatory lending, payday loan etc" Blame game....if I told young jump off a cliff, would you? No! Freedom means you are allowed to make mistakes....the government doesn't tell you you cannot pierce your nose and dress in tie dye because you may not get hired somewhere..because we are free.....I believe a government that is a nanny is just as bad as you think bankers like me are....democrats believe they know better and need to protect and guide "silly citizens" republicans...(I am libertarian) believe people need to make their own way. I know I am smarter than most....but even if not I would want the right to make my own mistakes. I dont want people telling me what I can buy, what I can eat, who I can screw or whatever. You cannot have a society that thrives without some resulting inequality. Everyone can't be a CEO and wear a roles and have a plane....but we have a society that let's us only be limited by our work ethic and dreams. I bet most people at owe wouldnt work my hours...miss holidays, mess up relationships.....that's fine....with sacrifice comes success. The only place where success comes before hard work is in the dictionary. On that note I'm on a redeye so I can be at work tmrw. Good luck all, use all this hate to motivate you to work, innovate, invent and I hope I'll be your banker when you are a ceo some day. Every one of you can do it
Why did all of the smartest people on Wall Street fail to see that subprime loans, MBS's, CDO's, synthetics, and CDS's would tank them? It's because they drank from the same cool-aide as their victims. Demosthenes once said, "The easiest thing of all is to deceive one's self; for what a man wishes he generally believes to be true." Poor, unsophisticated, people; middle class people who wanted their dream home; and aging adults who wanted to turn their home into an ATM all wanted to believe something that ended up not being true. There were, undoubtedly, hoards of poor individuals who had no idea what the real terms of their mortgage agreement entailed. They were preyed upon terribly. If you want to read more about the abuses, get "All the Devils are Here," by Bethany McClane or whatever, and begin reading. The rest of the mortgage crisis.....Stockton, CA; Las Vegas; Florida.....were people who fell prey to self-deceit.
I am not trying to blame Payday loans, etc., for any part of the current crisis. I am trying, however, to say that they should not exist PERIOD. These cottage industries, that every ethical person knows are venomous, should not be allowed to exploit anybody. They're the moral equivalent of a loan shark and, if in your Libertarian utopia they would be allowed, then you need to live in Mexico or some other Libertarian utopia.
In fairness, I have studies Libertarian philosophy and I would rename it "Corporate Anarchism." That is what it truly is, a world in which corporations can do whatever the hell they want and all they have to worry about is other corporations. It's a sad world for most, with very high walls for the rest. Wouldn't it be easier just to move to Mexico than to screw up this country any further with some utopian rhetoric?
Ok, how bout this...say I make 400k...pay 200k in federal, state and excise taxes.....how much more should I pay? What else do you want from me and the other like me? Seriously.....how much
I want you to be like some character in Atlas Shrugged and actually build something. I want you to run an industry where you value your workers. I want you to reflect that only in America could you have been so lucky.....and recognize that you have drawn from the investments of past generations in creating a system in which you are fantastically rewarded as compared to a teacher. That implies that you should be expected to refill that relative overdraft from our societal bank in the form of, yes a progressive tax system, with graduated rates upon those who have benefited disproportionately. Pay your taxes, live your life, because all you have is your brief time here.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/04/30/217381/we-are-wall-street-we-are-smarter-and-more-vicious-than-dinosaurs/
Didn't answer my question....how much more do you think I owe you...and what do you create again??
Folks - this guy is clearly an imposter either planted here by or with direct interest in a bank or a law enforcement agency. As a self-proclaimed "attorney, business owner & investor", he must be a very busy guy and certainly too busy to be responding to 746 comments (as of this note). I am only in the top 2% in income & wealth and I definitely wouldn't have the time to write 1/10th of the responses this guy wrote unless it was my full-time job. Further background - I am also in my mid-30's, top 1% educated (happy to duke it out with this moron any day) and fully support OWS.
And by the way, just like the rest of Wall Street (e.g., Peter Schiff, et. al.), this guy is trying to deflect blame on Wall Street to the government - just another corporate shill.
Don't waste your time with this miscreant.