Forum Post: Does OWS support Ron Paul?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 3:10 p.m. EST by Gr8Gatzby
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Well are we?
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No.
well said
Ron Paul thinks the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a bad idea, thinks racist attitudes toward black men are justified, is supported by supremacist organizations like Stormfront http://goo.gl/8rwlV
He kept donations from white supremacist organizations http://goo.gl/tjZfc
He quoted KKK founder on the House floor http://goo.gl/btkXH
He's participated in photo ops with the son of the founder of Stormfront, and KKK members have been involved in his presidential campaigns. http://goo.gl/dh09S
He is unabashedly anti-choice, and has defended big government attempts to limit women's reproductive rights. http://goo.gl/UHvYQ
So let me get this straight - you expect someone to know the names of all racists in the world and scour their donations list for people with those names - in addition you want them to memorize the pictures of all of those racists and then be able to recognize them when they approach you for a photograph?
You also think its better to give money back to racists so they can fund racist activities rather than keep it away from them?
Your link about quoting the KKK was for a Representative Poe not Paul (might want to verify your facts there).
You do an amazing job of not only being logical inconsistent but also of embarrassingly exposing your inability to verify facts before you include them as evidence in your own posts.
Please stop embarrassing the movement by your association.
"So let me get this straight - you expect someone to know the names of all racists in the world and scour their donations list for people with those names - in addition you want them to memorize the pictures of all of those racists and then be able to recognize them when they approach you for a photograph?"
If you're one of the most powerful people on the planet, and you choose to quote someone on the Floor of the House, you'd better damn well know whom you're quoting. That's basic, and it's not unreasonable to conflate the two.
"You also think its better to give money back to racists so they can fund racist activities rather than keep it away from them?"
What? No. You return the money, you don't keep hate money.
"Please stop embarrassing the movement by your association."
It's fine to support Ron Paul; that's your right, but this person makes some good points. You didn't dismiss them very well, and are condescending to boot.
Here's one thing that's true: Ron Paul is against almost everything that the government does. But that's extremely radical.
As for those who revile the evils of interventionist government I say...
...If you don't speak German as a native language, ach! It's the result of government intervention that took over the economy and helped save the world from fascism. If Ron Paul had been president, our national anthem would probably be "Deutschland Uber Alles.
...if you drive a car on the highway, please stop doing that! It's the result of socialist government intervention!
...If you are using the Internet, please stop now! DARPA, a federally funded entity, invented it and that's socialism that you're supporting--cease and desist!
...if your parents or grandparents get a social security check--go quickly, and take it away from them! That's socialism.
Dont be ridiculous, those last 4 sentences use logic on the level of a fourth grader. Thats what makes it so easy to spot you people. If you cannot understand why the logic fails then you do not deserve to vote.
[Deleted]
I dont have to prove how dumb they were, all it takes is a sensible person to read them, you did all the proving yourself. For that I thank you.
You followed up with a fancy way of saying "I know you are but what am I?" Thats pretty cool man. You lost before you even began.
[Deleted]
It is what it is.
i loled.
BTW, do you actually address points, or just respond with snarky comments all the time? Here, I'll speak in your language. Ron Paul is a putz. So are you. Go find another board where your puerile bullshit makes sense, like, say, Herman Cain's campaign web site.
Christ, you conservatives are fucking basic.
But hey, great job on trying to derail this movement. You condescending bullshit only makes us stronger.
Actually, come to think of you, your comments are like air. There's no substance to them. Empty.
groobiecat2, No. You are the one derailing this movement. If the OWS only embraces liberals, conservatives will turn against you and you will achieve
NOTHING
We need to be inclusive. You are hurting the movement.
No, I'm not "hurting the movement." But I am tired of arguing with people who ignore facts and prefer ad hominem attacks over civil discourse.
But I appreciate the feedback.
Peace.
Ron Paul never quoted the KKK that was someone else. Did you read the link?
Maybe you didn't read the link but the news article was about a legislator named Poe not Paul who quoted a racist in the House.
I mentioned that in the message you are replying to but you don't quote it and you apparently didn't even read it.
I am sorry but I don't have time to discuss with people who aren't even interested in correcting their own errors because it shows an unwillingness to even agree on facts let alone be open to agree on opinions.
I didn't post the link, and actually never commented on it. You're confused. The person who posted the link is jart.
Peace.
Groobiecat
[ There's an #OWS election process here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/come-to-the-nyc-general-assembly-on-10-15-12-to-st/ ]
[ There's a draft Declaration here: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ ]
You need to know the context of all these statements. This is a lot like what the media does. They will tell you OWS is the far left of the Democrat party and spin it with a couple comments from a couple people who they say then represents the whole movement.
A small amount of research in to Ron Paul's character, testifies that he is not even close to being racist. He is pretty anti-choice when it comes to abortion, however.
He's not racist, the liberal media just spins it that way! I swear he's a great guy! Except for that part where he wants to control womens bodies, but no one cares about patriarchy amirite?
Civil Rights Act of 1964 was unconstitutional. Why is the money and the quote relevant?
You don't understand how the judicial system works :\
explain
[Removed]
then this movement is already proven flawed. In all actuality it is not possible to represent 99% of anything....let alone the most diverse population on this planet called Americans......as much as we would like to believe...
I am a Kucinich liberal who WILL vote for Ron Paul! Why? because I did my homework and read Griffen and Hayek! I understand the misconceptions with regards to RP on the left like nobody else!
Kucinich and Paul are diametrically opposed on just about everything but the war, what exactly did they hoodwink you with?
Waitaminuto.They agree on the Fed, the wars, trade agreements, civil liberties!!!! Even Ralph Nader agrees on those topics as well
They fundamentally disagree on economics but I have now read Griffin and Hayek. Griffin opened my eyes. Hayek sealed the deal...Ron Paul it is.
But yet they work together, and in 2008 Kucinich did not hesitate to say he would select Ron Paul for potential VP candidates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py8cXlLyX18 here's Nader and Kucinich on Ron Paul.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xrSR552IXA
It would be silly for #OWS to claim to be united on all issues, or to have a completely united vote (unless it becomes a new party). There is a very real consensus concerning certain areas of the system that are broken, but not on the rest. And that is fine.
Beyond that Dutchess, this movement isn't flawed, it is just lacking a central vision that encompasses something we call can support. I personally do not support Ron Paul. I like him, but his policies vary too far from things which I believe to support him as my candidate for President.
And before you or anyone else asks, no, Obama, Romney, Santorum, Cain, any of the others...I don't like them either.
But this movement is about more than a simple candidate, or even a specific vision of the future. This is a true and pure reaction to a level of corruption and incompetence in government that we all recognize and all no long can tolerate.
Be you a socialist or marxist who seeks state control of industry or a libertarian constitutionalist who wants the government to stop using taxpayer money to bail out wallstreet, or any variation thereof...this movement is about our collective frustration over the fact that specific and select private interests have come to dominate our legislative process and corrupt every potential leader who has a viable chance of actually being elected before any of us even have the chance to cast our vote.
May I suggest the following? And please make sure to read through the comments and conversations as that is where the general thesis is so much more refined...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-central-message-we-need/
No.
No!
Factions within the movement do, but not the movement as a whole. It is important for OWS supporters and occupiers to embrace a central issue which speaks to more than just a portion of their support base. Some want it to be "end the fed," others want an anti war message, still others want environmentalism, etc...
IMO, the best issue that the movement could embrace is one that speaks in a good measure to the general tone of demands outlined so far. Be you socialist, libertarian, green, constitutionalist, anarchist, whathaveyou, the central theme is about corporate corruption of a for-sale government.
I suggest the central message be one of reforming the way campaigns and elections are run and financed. We get that, we get a government that is clean and transparent and honest enough to where we can all hold our other debates with candidates and politicians who do more than scratch the backs of the wealthy elite to secure their reelection funds.
Thoughts?
Well said. Make it a crime to bribe elected officials.
How about have a system where it is pointless to bribe, because the state doesn't have goodies to dole out to its friends?
Some of us think that government has a role to play in a society where people care about what happens to our fellow citizens. Frankly, the whole "I go mine, fuck the rest of you" mentality is a moral black hole. It certainly isn't very Christian.
So you're for more of the same? A system developed to steal and regulate the 99% and redistribute it to those who have purchased favor?
I misread you. We aren't at odds if you think the essential problem is that our government has been bought by special interest groups and no longer represents the electorate. We can fight about the rest later when we have a representative government that will hear and respond to our petitions.
I think the essential problem is we give too much power to the government, which is the reason corporations either use it, or go to it for their advantage. I don't want to have a need for the government to respond to our petitions, because it will be entirely neutral and the wills of others would not be allowed to be forced upon anybody. If we return it to a constitutional republic, whose job of the government is to ensure every person is treated equally under law and maintain general order, no one will have a need to petition and we can all solve our individual and collective problems or meet our desires in our own ways.
And when we have a truly representative government, and our arguments and petitions actually mean something, you and I will fight about government's role in society. Until then, you and I are allies defending this great country against the corruption of our democracy by special interest groups (corporations, unions, churches).
how bout elect officials who don't accept bribes first.
The system is so f'd up that you can't get elected unless you take the graft. Money buys elections anymore. It's all about how much media time you can buy. Not the politicians. It's the system that enslaves them to their "benefactors".
Well, it already pretty much is. My suggestion, which is shared by many, is that we make elections run strictly on public funds. Without the need for politicians to cozy up to the corporatocracy, we'll have the ability to hear what they really believe and see them govern as the hard facts and honest truths will dictate.
When I say bribe, I mean giving contributions to a political campaign for the purpose gaining influence over an elected official. I agree 100% that elections need to run on public funds.
When a person pays off a cop, its a bribe. When a corporation pays off a government, its called fund raising.
Yes, twisted isn't it. And we all just accept it as the way of the world. I think we could do better.
This is where I believe we can all start...
And remember to read the discussions contained below the thesis statement. They refine the idea in ways I hadn't even thought of.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-central-message-we-need/
We need to put an end to corporate personhood. That's what this movement should be about.
IMO we need to end leecher personhood, that means you and all the dirty hippie social justice wannabes. Your no longer people, doesnt feel good does it?
No.
I don't want to start a Ron Paul debate war. I will just say this. If the OWS movement officially supports Ron Paul or attempts to push for Ron Paul, the masses will leave. He has a nice message and all but his stances on Unions, States rights to govern them self, repealing the Civil Rights Act, health care, taxes, even more deregulation of the banks and wall street ( code name "Free Market" ) , End the Fed ( code words for A resource based economy ) ... The man is totally unelectable in the U.S and most view him as insane.
end the fed is NOT a code word for a resource based economy, lol where did you get that?
What happens after we End the Fed ?
back to sound money, which isn't same as resource based economy, which calls for no money
And what in the world could this mysterious and magical new currency be ? Hmmmm I'm so curious !
gold/silver/copper
RBE is about technological advancement to the point of zero scarcity. It has nothing to do with commodity currency.
No currency ? Wow... And what would this revolutionary idea be called ?
Who said no currency? No one said no currency.
So then how would we buy what we need ? Our Ipod's and Droids and little robots and things ...
We have coins made of precious metal or cards like credit cards which scan through which lead to out accounts with x grams or ounces or a blended standard and prices are set to a weight. Or it could be set to an interim medium like dollars in order to ignore changes in exchange rates.
In any case its extremely easy to do (since its been done for thousands of years already) and a cakewalk with today's electronic systems.
While your at it implant the currency chips under our skin. No thanks, move to China.
I don't see how a voluntary usage of currency somehow implies to forced implantation.
Could you please describe how you arrived at that conclusion?
So in other words End The Fed really is code word for the Gold standard and later, in it's most extreme version a "Resource based economy" where Robots Strip mine the earth and we all just exist and take what we need then recycle it... Why did we have this conversation again ?
For fuckssake, dude! Get some education. Ending the Fed means taking the power to create currency away from private banksters and putting it back where the constitution intended.
What happens when we End the Fed ?
They stop having a monopoly on the currency; have the privilege of charging interest on nothing revoked; and we'll either have a currency with intrinsic value or well have US notes .
Will we recreate another central bank ? One with out corruption, preferably one not owned by private banks.
No not at all. You asked a question regarding a statement from another poster.
Ending the Fed would simply take the monetary control out of the hands of the major banks and put it into the hands of Congress again - where there is some measure of accountability via elections. Fundamentally that is all that would change - more direct accountability. For example we could find the Congresspersons that voted to send 9 trillion dollars to prop up foreign banks and vote them out of office. We cannot do that with the Federal Reserve and we only found out about it because Congress passed one specific bill allowing a window peek into the Fed's dealings - normally Congress has no oversight over the Fed.
I'm a little confused... Do you want to do away with a central bank all together ? Or do you mean fix the corruption in our central bank and take it out of the hands of private banks ?
I'll take every little step that gets us to what I think is the best monetary system for all people.
It begins first of all by taking control of the monetary system from private bankers who are unaccountable to elected officials who are accountable.
Can we agree with that first step?
I just wanted to add, Removing the corruption from the Federal Reserve is a good thing, one i think every one would agree with. Taking it out of the hands of private banks and opening the books would be nice too. Flat out ending the Fed though, completely doing away with a central bank all together... Go look up U.S recessions before and after the Fed, And that's just 1 small reason why we need a Central bank.
So you are advocating a different monetary system, what type of monetary system do you think would be best ?
I would advocate a system where we have a variety of competing currencies and where no legal tender laws apply. I believe commodity currencies would be preferred for physical exchanges and secure and anonymous virtual currencies be preferred for information exchanges. (BitCoin, SolidCoin, etc)
As nice as that would be ... You agree with me, End the Fed is just code word for a resource based economy. Why not just say i want a Resource based economy and a central bank would no longer be needed ? Is it because Libertarians know that people don't want a gold standard and need to use deceptive and misleading slogans to con people into something they don't want and know wont work ?
No no no. End the Fed is about ending the Fed. What I personally desire is of no real importance. I am not the movement, I do not speak for the movement.
Also RBE is not the same thing as a commodity currency (that which I desire) or competing currencies. It is entirely different thing I think is foolish in the extreme, impractical, and to be blunt - exceedingly harmful to pursue.
I don't say it because that isn't what an RBE is, I don't want an RBE, cannot stand the idea and you're using the phrase entirely incorrectly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource-based_economy
I agree with you that something needs to be done with the Fed. I'm not delusional, I know damn well what OUR Federal Reserve does and how corrupt it is. Most people do as well. I also understand what Ending the Fed with our current monetary system means. Constant recessions and an economy totally at the mercy of the global markets. This is why i get pissed off at the End the Fed slogan. People who say End the Fed either mean let's change the monetary system in some way or let's End the Fed because it's a catchy slogan and they have no clue what the Federal Reserve even is or does. It's a misleading slogan and one designed specifically to do just that. How about Fix the Fed ? More to the point, not misleading, still cool with the internet kids ... lol
As for moving to a gold standard or commodity based currency, I'm not an economist. I have a basic understanding of it but not enough to debate any one that truly knows and may have studied economics in collage.
I go to a lot of rallies for it and there are plenty of people who want to return monetary policy to the Congress and that is the end of their concerns. Not the majority but then most people have different goals in mind.
End the Fed is about that. If anyone wants to take it further they are free to start another group right now or after the Fed ends. I may or may not join.
Please don't take my desires as representative of the movement.
How does one fix a group of private banks given monopoly control of our monetary system?
Thats ok - lots of economists with PHD's discuss the merits and flaws of a commodity currency to this day. All debate is good debate, the worst that happens is someone can learn something :)
Lot's of people want lot's of different things and they are discussing all their ideas. That's a good thing ! Like you said "the worst that happens is someone can learn something " i agree completely !
As for the Fed, I don't know what to do with it or how to fix it. I know what i would do but if i were in control of this countries economic system, I would be doing just fine. I don't know about the rest of you though. =) I do know we need to get the corruption out and keep it honest. Removing it from the hands of private banks and opening the books would probably be a good idea also. Other then that, if i go into any more detail i would just be talking out of my butt.
The point in my original post was not about what we need to do with the Fed. What i lack in economic understanding i more then make up in manipulation. I just know how to tell people what they want to hear and how to use that to my advantage... I know what the Slogan End the Fed is really supposed to do and why it's used so often. It's a message designed to be vague but used in a way to push a specific point of view.
Ok I can't agree with your belief that you know that a secret code exists and what it means for others.
I know lots of people in the End the Fed movement - the are very forthright people and End the Fed means End the Fed.
Good luck.
It's not a secrete code. A good salesmen is a good salesmen because he knows how to tell people the things they want to hear. He knows how to misdirect their attention and confuse while informing some one. It's not some big secrete.
And End the Fed means change the monetary system, like i said and got you to say also. Go back and read what you said, you were conned into admitting what you didn't want to admit.
Good luck, you will need it.
I didn't say that at all. You asked me what I personally wanted and I told you.
If you want to be that dishonest and intellectually bankrupt in an attempt to exercise confirmation bias you continue to do so. You should understand that all it does is bring to light your inability or unwillingness to actually understand a position outside what you've imagined it to be.
It's because i let you off the hook when i made 2 reply's to you and didn't press you to comment on the first one. It was the one where i started agreeing with you, and i do to some extent.
As for the rest of your comment, you should apply it to yourself. I'm not the one pushing my political ideology with a misleading phrase.
Neither am I. You've used a term (RBE) incorrectly and continued to do so after I provided you a link with it and explained the difference. The only reason I can see for your actions like this is because you have come to this discussion with such a strong opinion you're unwilling or unable to accept contradictory inputs. Thus no matter what I say or present you will always see it to back up your base assumption. You are a victim of your own confirmation bias.
The point is, it's about changing the monetary system. That is the ultimate goal of most who say End the Fed. That's also why i keep saying it's a misleading slogan. I'm not debating if we should or should not change it. I have a basic understanding of economics and if we got into any serious discussion on the pro's and cons of doing that ... Half of what i say would be just me talking out of my butt ! lol
I do personally but the movement doesn't take a stance on politicians - too divisive. Lets agree where we can agree.
no, but you can. we don't endorse candidates. we are a unified body of ideas.
Do you vote?
I am registered to vote, though I was not old enough to vote in the last presidential election. I am extremely politically and ethically conscious. What's the difference, though? The electoral college make's my vote insignificant anyway...that's one of the reason's this movement appeals to me.
I believe the whole system needs to go. I believe that we cannot sustain ourselves as a planet within the current monetary system. However, while we are within the constraints of it I would rather have someone like Ron Paul who is all about diminishing government rather then empowering it. Someone who is not in bed with the elites that we protest about. If we do nothing and vote for no one, someone will get into office and most likely it will be the one that will make it all the more difficult for you to have the freedom to change it or remove it. Common sense. Step by step plan.
oooo, feel the hate, lol. The ZioNazis are out in full force.
OWS is not partisan and I would be unhappy to see any candidate endorsed. Neither am partisan, I but I support Ron Paul (as I supported Nader before). I want the wars ended (ZioNazis HATE that!); the Fed abolished; the PATRIOT Act repealed; the Nazi "Homeland Security" shut down; and the constitution and my freedom restored!
RON PAUL 2012!
NO.
No, but seriously, we'd be speaking German if Ron Paul had been president during WWII.
The real question is: Does Ron Paul support #OWS?
And what do you mean by "we"?
NO!!!
Enough about Ron Paul! Whoever got it in their head that any of us want to represent, or be represented by Ron Paul?!! Let him go on failing to build his own movement. I think none of us should even respond any longer to this nonsense! I know I won't!
No.
Why do you want to end the Federal Reserve Bank? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Bank)
Do you think the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve Bank are heads of a massive global conspiracy or part of one? (http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty1.html)
Do you think the Chairman of The Board just creates money out of thin air and sticks it in his bank account? (http://weakonomics.com/2010/08/03/11-things-you-didn%E2%80%99t-know-about-ben-bernanke/)
Do you want to ‘end the fed’ because you hate regulation? (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/)
Are you suspicious that the Federal Reserve Bank has never been audited? (http://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/budget-review/default.htm)
Are you upset because the Federal Reserve Bank sucked you into a crappy loan with a teaser rate, then jacked up the interest rate and when you couldn’t pay the mortgage and they came to foreclose on you and they couldn’t even produce the deed to the house because of ‘robo-signing’ or was that some other bank? (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8VdF24EZqFQ&refer=us)
Are you upset because the Federal Reserve Bank is ending free checking service and imposing fees to their debit card holders or do they not do personal checking accounts?
Are you upset because the Federal Reserve Bank invented exotic finical products like credit default swaps or because they invented high frequency day trading?
Are you upset that the Fed turned you down for an auto loan or credit card, because I don’t think they have anything to do with credit ratings or offering consumer credit products?
Are you upset because you are concerned that 4% target inflation will deprecate the value of your massive bond holdings?
Are you really posting right leaning, libertarian, conspiracy propaganda on a site for a left leaning, progressive movement?
The problem isn’t the Fed, the problem is there aren’t more regulatory institutions in this country that have as much power and strength like the Federal Reserve System. http://webskeptic.wikidot.com/federal-reserve-system
Wow. So the answer is MORE government. I'm starting to get REALLY confused about what this movement believes in. More of a bad thing certainly is not an answer
It's not the tea party. it's an anti corruption progressive movement.
Why don't you ask Ron Paul if he supports us? His campaign said No. So clearly you can see where that is going. We don't trust any politician while the system is currently corrupt.
no.
As soon as we start talking candidates, 99% turns to 49.5% - or less. We need to focus on those things that we can all get behind, that will get some momentum going. I agree with WorkingClassAntiHero below. Who can argue against the end of institutionalization bribery? This is a rallying cry. Later we can argue about direction, depth, and velocity. Right now we need a message that will build a critical mass of support. And we need an early win to solidify credibility.
Hear, hear!
How about: End The Looting And Start Prosecuting.
We Libertarians started the r3VOLution ,the Tea party and now we just want to walk hand and hand with OWS. A Libertarian - Socialist alliance is a beautiful thing man a beautiful thing.
OWS shouldn't support any candidate in my opinion.
YOU should support a candidate based on your own analysis not because someone or some group does.
Ron Paul is the man. There is no one else we can rely on. The govnmt corruption is too thick and deep and most have given in to it. Ron stands tall and they throw garbage at him almost constantly. He's the one. The one they want to crucify.. The one they most fear. Worth taking a look at his track record and his position if you haven't yet. He is libertarian. Its about time we had a libertarian president, isn't it??
I think that's a personal decision there. As much as I disagree with Ron Paul, his personal integrity can be said to make up for many of his policy positions, which are reasonable to begin with. If we want to change Washington, we have to elect people of integrity that can refuse being bought out by wall street, whether we agree with them or not. Obama gave up on us, but Ron Paul is still reasonable. If Kucinich doesn't do anything, i'll probably vote for him.
If OWS is about democracy, I'm sure some or many do.
OWS doesn't advocate partisan politics (even though partisan politics are trying to co-opt it... be very careful of this folks - reject all such attempts by corporations, union, Bernie Sanders, Democrats, Republicans, etc)... there are too many varying views, and thus cannot nor should it 'endorse' a politican president... BUT.
But.
I, as an individual - absolutely support Ron Paul for president in 2012. If you want to end the corporatism, end the wars, end the drug war, maximize the freedom for us as individuals to live our lives as we don't violate the person nor property of others - if you believe in that, then Ron Paul is the only choice for President for those who vote.
Plus, if this simple comic doesn't convince you to be a libertarian, or at least stop asking the government to 'fix the problem', then I don't know what will.
http://mimiandeunice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/ME_420_CorporateState-640x199.png
I like what the people at reclaimdemocracy.org said about the Corp. Personhood. Corp. Are not people. It is a thing owned by people. Those people already have same rights as you and me. Why should they get more and more? one person one veto. If we did away with Corp. Personhood and the right given to it, woundn't it help give the people back the power? Please help me with question.
I support him over any other person ,do I trust him 100% well nope lol
As long as we keep identifying as left or right it won't support anyone.
This movement is so much more that the political divide.
It belongs to everyone.
no.
Yeah, right. A movement calling for the reigning in of untethered capitalism will support a racist looneytarian calling for less regulations and MORE of the same neoliberal policies that have created this mess? PUHLEEEZE!
How? At least those of us calling for less regulations have reasoning as to why. You on the other hand make outrageous claims of racism with no backing.
You are confused because its the regulations in place that keep people from becoming entreprenuers and competing against these huge corporations. And the people who created this mess are the same people YOU are asking to solve it -ie. govt.
i do
Gr8Gatzby, this is a leaderless organization. Consensus is reached by the majority. Some members of the OWS support Ron Paul. Some don't. The OWS doesn't endorse any candidate unless 100% of the 99% support them (which isn't going to happen anytime soon).
No. He's a joke. Austrian economics died with well...was it ever popular?
And lack of popularity makes his ideas false?
it's unpopular because it's wrong.
I hope the hell not. He is my representative and he is reprehensable. If they can't afford insurance, let them die. That is a real humane attitude, especially for a doctor.
No. Of course not> have you heard his comments at the debates. I like the guy for a number of reasons but he is a conservative mostly and while some of his ideas are good, some are too far out there.
I surely hope not his policys scare the crap out of me.
NO!
We don't support people who think that people were better off in the 1900s than we are today. We don't support people who think that healthcare should be available only to those who can afford it, or that bake sales should be used to help those in need. We don't support people who name their kids after Ayn Rand.
And it's "Does OWS support Ron Paul? Well do we?"
Christ, you people are simple...
Ron Paul is right on healthcare - it's not that only people who can afford it deserve it, it's that we need reform that makes it affordable by everyone.
You're joking, right? Ron Paul's solution to a dying man's problem is hold a bake sale. He wants government out of everything, especially healthcare.
The one thing I've never heard an RP supporter discuss is the fact that, simply put, corporations have a built in, inherent discincentive to funds medical procedures. That's a serious problem--not just "affordability."
People think the government is incompetent, but here's the thing: a) many people in the government are corporate contractors, b) corporations are incompetent too!
They're both comprised of people...
Giving the government more of your money will certainly not mean that things will change - the healthcare industry will keep milking the funds as they are now.
Ron Paul makes is great congressman for Texas, but not as a president of the United States.
OWS doesn't support anyone.
Ron Paul has two switches (constitutional non-constitutinal) his moral compass operates in politics. I wouldn't take what he says personally he is an objective person in a highly subjective environment, Congress.
he can eat a bowl of hot dicks
this is not about party
I can only speak for myself, I do support Dr. Paul.
No. Too much freedom. We need to be watched over with a whip and a pistol. What kind of question is that?
world is paying 80 trillion $ annual interest and its annual product is just 60 trillion $... to whom is the whole world working for? we must end all kinds of interest-based systems... money is not created to be sold... money can not be sold... if you have money make a real business or be a partner with someone who has a real business working for real things for humanity... earning by selling money is the root of all evils in this world... its the basics and cause of humanities slavery to just 1%.
the world needs "equalistic united humanity order" euho , we should start stopping all kind of interest in all world. interest is prohibited in all belief on the earth. we unite to stop interest based economic,social activities as humans and by this way we start destroying capitalism enslaving system over humanity. http://pic.twitter.com/wu5uH0C2
We are open to all ideas.
We are the ideas.
We have no leader.
We are the leaders.
We stand united.
We stand as a voice of the people.
We hope for a constitutional government.
We hope for a sustainable economy.
We hope you will join us if you have similar interests.
Is this another way of saying you don't know what you want or how to fix things? Or is it that the system is so far gone with so many problems that you can't address everything without posting a PhD thesis?
the latter- the system is so far gone with so many problems that you can't address everything without posting a PhD thesis.
We need an non-affiliated representative. Nor Rep or Dem should be in office. They only will continue where the previous left off. We need somebody who shares the 99% views and feelings. I realize everyone has their own partial take as to why they are rep or dem. In the future when we reclaim our nation back from the greed, we can begin working on those values. I say this from my heart, any values or personal feelings you have towards voting for a dem or rup are valued. I value your choices as an American, but if this problem isn't fixed, those values will be GONE. There will be nothing to vote for. I'm tired of being a slave to the machine. I want freedom first and above all. I want my nation free from this debt. I want my neighbor not to lose his home. I want my mom to be free in her older age. I want my children to be educated and free, and not starve. If I want those things, I have to put other things aside and put this nation back on track. Who this person is to vote in, I don't know yet. I assure somebody will emerge, and very soon.
I am amased at how Occupy works and would like to have your input on the movement to understand it better. Can you answer 10 questions, please. I am happy to send results if you are interested. Thank you! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB
Not me. The only value of his approach is that it would reduce the population. Elderly, infirm, poor etc. would soon be dead from lack of social services.
End the wars! End corporatism! End drug prohibition! End the fed and 'to big to fail' banks!
(full disclosure, I'm not OWS personally, just a fan of OWS)
Well if Ron Paul would support the OWS movement, would OWSers support and encourage others to support his campaign?
Bill
Why people cannot understand that reforming a system whose entirely legitamacy is enforced by the largest most ruthless military in the world is a complete red herring, i will never understand.
If you won't DEMAND PEACE you won't have ANYTHING! You see this same global market, enforced by violence and war, failing right before your eyes. So how can this be? A man-made system, enforced through violence is failing.. HOW? BY DESIGN. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT MONEY. They PLAN ON STARTING WWIII. SO start demanding PEACE NOW or not having a job will be the least of your worries.
For me? Yes! because I don't speak for everyone
They shouldn't endorse him, but they should support the things that the two groups align on. Seems stupid to toss the baby out with the bathwater.
OWS should. He's the only candidate from either party who has the guts to do something significant in the financial arena.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka1ym7S3F3w&feature=related
he might not be perfect, but hes the BEST we can possibly get. hes the beginning.
Yep, I agree. The more and more I study his track record, the more I realize that he has predicted and voted against everything that has gone to shit in the past 30 years. He's honest, consistent, correct in his predictions, and I trust that he'll be correct in his solutions. I think he is our best chance of making positive changes from the inside out. Like someone said above me, there's no use in throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I would prefer Buddy Roemer over Ron Paul. Just a personal opinion.
http://www.buddyroemer.com/issues/
listen, many people may seem Better in some specific issues, but paul is the one gaining all this ground. We need him, a feasible answer to this SHIT system
Yes yes yes yes.
I certainly don't. He's wrong about a gold standard & ending the Fed: http://www.amazon.com/review/R2IB97C8SRVEE7/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0446549177
Right, the Fed should continue to give free money to the big banks and let them continue to raid the middle class. Go Fed Reserve!
The Fed doesn't give "free money" to banks, the banks borrow the money.
One of the national Socialist Party Program planks under Adolph Hitler was to abolish interest . . . maybe that's why the plutocrats were against him?
You are 100% wrong. Educate yourself. Look at how Quantitative Easing works. From November 2010 to June 2011, the Fed Reserve ordered the creation of $600 billion in new US dollars. That money was deposited into the accounts of the primary dealers, aka the big banks, like Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc. The primary dealers then took that money and ramped up the stock market and commodities. This is why gas prices increased substantially over that time period and why food inflation sparked riots in the Middle East.
There was no borrowing at all.
QE involves the FED buying assets, that's how they spread that $$$ around. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation#Quantitative_easing
Every man for himself, sink or swim, no regulations, go to a church instead of a hospital when you are having a heart attack and can't afford insurance, go to school as a kid only if you want to, no FDA, doctors getting "licensed" like companies get their credit rated, no social security which eliminated 90% of the poverty among seniors, no medicare which means seniors can forget about medical treatment unless they are rich, no student loan programs, no NIH which does most of the medical research in this country, doubling the poverty rate, accelerating the rate of inequality, letting states determine whether they want slavery, bringing back depression era unemployment rates.
I am all for him, so society can see just how idiotic capitalism is and so we can get rid of this cancer once and for all.
Personal responsibility and individual freedom. Enough regulations to protect life, liberty and property, which covers just about everything. Libertarians are pretty much indifferent on the whole topic of religion and we like hospitals. The FDA protects big pharma. Whats wrong with rating doctors? 90%? Let me see your numbers. Once upon a time people lived in homes with three and sometimes 4 generations. How much longer can we pay for medicare before it takes over the whole budget. If we ain't got the money we ain't got it. Prove it. Prove it. Prove it. Libertarians are for an individuals right to life, liberty and property. That means for every individual, hint, hint that means we're against slavery as it violates all three of those rights. Prove it. Now that we got that cleared up.
Yeah, if a senior, who cannot get insurance since they are guaranteed to get a serious, expensive illness in short order, can't afford the $200k heart surgery,let them die. It serves them right for not being better capitalists.
Libertarians are very clear on hospitals. If you can't pay, you ain't getting in.
Not only do I not know how to effectively rate doctors, I don't know how to effectively rate all the competing rating agencies for all the dangerous goods and services I need to consume.
We have $15 trillion. All medicine, including seniors, takes up a small percentage of our economy. We have the money and always will. We are the richest country on the planet and the only developed one that doesn't provide medical care to all.
The FDA or providing medicare is not slavery.
Sorry your wrong on almost every count. If we did away with the entire budget except for SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment/Welfare and Department of Defense we would still need to borrow money to pay the interest on the debt. Just because we know how to do heart surgery doesn't mean we can afford it. The Medicare budget is growing exponentially and is paying out more than it takes in now and into the future. We have an unfunded liability to SS, Medicare and Medicaid of over $115 trillion right now and growing. GDP is growing at less than 2% health care cost are growing at 9%. That means that we can't pay for Medicare right now with out borrowing the money from China. And guess what, its going to get worse. All transfer payments are unconstitutional. Medicare is a pay-as-you plan. Which means they take the money from me and you today to give to todays seniors.and tomorrows taxpayers will pay for your Medicare...maybe. The whole damn thing is unsustainable. Hey man I don't like it either. I didn't know any of this shit three years ago but after I started looking into it I couldn't believe how totally f--ked up everything is and how totally screwed we are. This train wreak was over 50 years in the making. Everybody thought that somebody down the road would fix the problems but nobody ever did. They just kept adding to them
You are wrong.
Only 16% of our total income is spent on health care. We have more than enough money. Stop getting your information from fox news.
I got my info straight fro the federal budget. The 6 biggest items on the budget total $2.6 trillion.
What does that have to do with the fact that we can afford health care since it only accounts for 16% of this country's total income?
That $2.6 trillion accounts for more than all tax revenue. After that we have to borrow for every thing else. We borrow 43% of what our government spends. And now we have health care on top of that and you say we can afford it. I guess you failed math in school we're broke. We're more than broke we're $15 trillion in the whole and counting. So that means that WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!! You would not run your house hold budget like so why do you except the government to run its budget like that?
You could pay for 100% of healthcare costs with a flat, 16% tax.
The government may not be able to pay for it under its current tax scheme. But that doesn't mean we can't afford it. We would just have to change taxes.
Show me the numbers. We have a $100 trillion unfunded liability to Medicare and Medicare part B right now, what do we do about that>
We produce $15 trillion in income each year. We spend $2.4 trillion each year on healthcare. $15 trillion is enough to buy $2.4 trillion healthcare.
Unfunded liabilities are the accumulation of the healthcare payments we make each year. Since healthcare costs will never exceed our total income, we will never not be able to pay for them.
That which can not be paid will not be paid. Health care isn't the only thing we spend money on. If interest rates go up just a few percent service on the debt will eat half of the entire budget. How much do you plan on taxing all those young people at OWS to get the money to pay for your Medicare. Do you think they might have something to say about it. I don't want to live in your utopian world but you would force me to pay for it. Thats the problem with the leftist wet dream they can only have if they force somebody else to pay for it.
That's right. The entire leftist movement is relying on you to pay for their healthcare. The world is counting on you. You are our hero. Please don't let us down.
We will all die if you do not come through for us. So I'm willing to do anything it takes. I will memorize the entire Ronald Reagan Socialism album.
Why do you support the FDA?
Because I value safety and efficacy, I don't have the expertise to make those judgements and I want the people making those judgements independent with no conflict of interest
No conflicts of interest here! Monsanto’s man Taylor returns to FDA in food-czar role http://tiny.cc/uiwjj
They are better than a private FDA that must make a profit.
But that is why i want ron paul elected. so society can see how idiotic capitalism really is and so society would be motivated to finally get rid of it and replace it with a democratic economy where those conflicts of interest won't exist at all.
Well you should do some research on the FDA, theyre not giving it to you.
They are better than a private FDA that must make a profit.
But that is why i want ron paul elected. so society can see how idiotic capitalism really is and so society would be motivated to finally get rid of it and replace it with a democratic economy where those conflicts of interest won't exist at all.
I trust you have not done your research yet.
research on what? you have research on how a private, for profit fda would be better?
nope. just the injustices of the FDA as it currently is.
and what is your solution to that injustice?
I need not offer solutions, that is not my role. I only ask that you research them yourself before you back the agency.
right on, we should elect obama to a 2nd term. things are going awesome right now.
Well as long as we are at it: Socialism = slavery and death every where its been tried.
Yes, nothing but death and slavery at NASA, the National Science Foundation, schools, public universities, Veterans Hospitals, police departments, fire departments, the FBI, the CIA, the military, the post office, garbage collection.
And the Nordic countries, which have the most socialism of all the developed countries, have the highest incidence of death and slavery in the developed world, not the highest wealth, standard of living and happiness.
And I'm wrong how? Death and/or slavery is involved in every one of those things.
How does a grammar school, for example, produce death and slavery?
If you take the money to pay for that school from me by force than the time I spent earning that money was involuntary servitude.
I reject the idea that a tax is taking money by force. Things cost money. If you don't want to pay, you can live some place where there are no taxes or any other kind of fees.
There would be no income taxes in a socialist society. Only the consumption portion of GDP would be paid out to workers. You wouldn't need to use a tax.
I don't care if you reject it or not it is what it is. The government ran for over 100 years with out an income tax and we did pretty good without it. If the government would stop doing so many unconstitutional things they would not need all that money.
Yeah things were great. Nearly everyone was poor, nobody went to college and nobody got any real medical treatment. If we can only bring back the good ole days.
You are totally and completely clueless. Peace.
Life expectancy back then was 38 years, you have go to be kidding!
Back when? Its hard to get a good fix on the numbers but form what I've been able to find I think your off a bit on the low side. In 1900 the life expectancy from birth was about 48 years. Lots of newborns didn't make it to their first birthday. But if they did make it then life expectancy rose sharply from there on. Here's a site I found: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html Have you ever done a family history? In my family (working class from beginning to end) I found many times grandparents, children, grandchildren and great grandchildren living in the same house all at one time. This was the norm. Back then families took care of their own.The didn't look to the government to do something that they knew was their responsibility. There were mutual (or benefit)aid societies where people banded together to help each other through life's difficulties. The Amish, today do not take SS or medicare. They also do not carry insurance. They depend, instead, on one another. Many a time in Lancaster county PA I have seen the Amish holding some kind of fund raiser to help another Amish family with medical bills or to rebuild a burned down home. No one forces them to do it. They do it because they believe it's their responsibility to take care of their own. It used to be that way for the rest of American society as well. Americans are still the most charitable people in the world . In 2010 Americans gave, to one charity or another almost $300 billion on top of the over $2.1 trillion we paid in taxes and that does not count all the hours that Americans spend doing volunteer work. So, I disagree totally with your entire premise.
Few people want to live like it was 1900 with 4 generations crammed into a house or like the Amish. People want modern, sophisticated living, not primitive living. They want guaranteed access to a hospital, not mutual aid. They want real doctors, not some friend doing you a favor.
Despite America's charity they still can't provide healthcare for all. I'm not sure what makes you think they will all of a sudden be able to take care of everyone when the need grows 10 fold.
$300 billion is pocket change compared to the cost of healthcare and social security. And people don't want to ask for handouts at a charity. they want a guaranteed program that works.
Sadly no, but if they actually looked into the systemic causes of our crises, and took the time to actually hear Ron Paul's views, and look at his track record, they would be. but the more i see from OWS, the less I consider myself a part of it.. RON PAUL 2012!
Yes its more and more just a looney left wet dream. We want free this and free that make the rich pay for everything, they don't deserve it anyway. We're not in a depression there's plenty of money. Wait till the first cold rain of late October.
There isn't plenty of money, most of that money was created out of thin air from fractional lending. Not all rich people are corrupt, and we should be going after the fraud in the system, not just the generality of "rich people"
I agree but you don't hear OWS people talking about that.
thats why we have to tell and show them, otherwise we end up with the left version of the tea party
There isn't plenty of money, most of that money was created out of thin air from fractional lending. Not all rich people are corrupt, and we should be going after the fraud in the system, not just the generality of "rich people"
garyjohnson2012.com
Paul/Johnson or Johnson/Paul
haha johnson/paul
Trolling
what?
Occupy Wall Street has been taken over by the Globalists led by MoveOn.Org courtesy of George Soros. Get them out, Switch your allegiance to Occupy The Fed(eral Reserve), or start a new movement. Once the New World Order saw that OWS was not going away and was leaderless they moved right in and are offering the media the "demands of the protesters". Have you noticed they sound quite socialist? And why on earth would they ban Ron Paul stickers and banners? If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd.......
Ron Paul is a Douchebag
OWS was started by Adbusters - indirectly connected to Soros. Not sure if that means anything.
as well as stephen lerner