Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr
OccupyForum

Forum Post: "America Is No Longer a Land of Opportunity", by Nobel Laureate, Joseph Stiglitz.

Posted 2 years ago on June 26, 2012, 3:47 p.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"America Is No Longer a Land of Opportunity",

by Joseph Stiglitz.

U.S. inequality is at its highest point for nearly a century. Those at the top - no matter how you slice it - are enjoying a larger share of the national pie; the number below the poverty level is growing. The gap between those with the median income and those at the top is growing, too. The U.S. used to think of itself as a middle-class country - but this is no longer true.

Economists have justified such disparities by citing “marginal productivity theory”, which explains higher incomes through greater societal contributions. But those who have really transformed our society, by providing the knowledge that underpins the advances in technology, earn a relative pittance. Just think of the inventors of the laser, the Turing machine or the discoverers of DNA. The innovation of those on Wall Street, while well compensated, brought the global economy to the brink of ruin; and these financial entrepreneurs walked off with mega-incomes.

One might feel better about inequality if there were a grain of truth in trickle-down economics. But the median income of Americans today is lower than it was a decade and a half ago; and the median income of a full-time male worker is lower than it was more than four decades ago. Meanwhile, those at the top have never had it so good.

Some argue that increased inequality is an inevitable byproduct of the market. False: several countries are reducing inequality while maintaining economic growth.

Markets are shaped by the rules of the game. Our political system has written rules that benefit the rich at the expense of others. Financial regulations allow predatory lending and abusive credit-card practices that transfer money from the bottom to the top. So do bankruptcy laws that provide priority for derivatives. The rules of globalization - where capital is freely mobile but workers are not - enhance an already large asymmetry of bargaining: businesses threaten to leave the country unless workers make strong concessions.

Textbooks teach us that we can have a more egalitarian society only if we give up growth or efficiency. However, closer analysis shows that we are paying a high price for inequality: it contributes to social, economic and political instability, and to lower growth. Western countries with the healthiest economies (for example those in Scandinavia) are also the countries with the highest degree of equality.

The U.S. grew far faster in the decades after the second world war, when inequality was lower, than it did after 1980, since when the gains have gone disproportionately to the top. There is growing evidence looking across countries over time that suggests a link between equality, growth and stability.

There is good news in this: by reducing rent-seeking - finding ways of getting a larger share of the pie, rather than making the pie larger - and the distortions that give rise to so much of America’s inequality we can achieve a fairer society and a better-performing economy. Laws that tax speculators at less than half the rate of those who work for a living or make the innovations that are transforming our society, say something about our values; but they also distort our economy, encouraging young people to move into gambling rather than into more productive areas. Since so much of the income at the top is derived from rent seeking, higher taxes at the top would discourage rent-seeking.

America used to be thought of as the land of opportunity. Today, a child’s life chances are more dependent on the income of his or her parents than in Europe, or any other of the advanced industrial countries for which there are data. The U.S. worked hard to create the American dream of opportunity. But today, that dream is a myth.

We can once again become a land of opportunity but it will not happen on its own, and it will not happen with a politics that focuses on cutting public education and other programs to enhance opportunities for the bottom and middle, while cutting taxes for those at the very top.

President Barack Obama’s support for these investments, as well as the “Buffett rule” that asks those at the top to pay at least as much in tax as a share of their income as those who are less fortunate, are moves in the right direction. Republican candidate Mitt Romney’s suggestion that we cut back on public employees is worrisome; as is his silence on whether capital gains on speculation should be taxed at a lower rate than income derived from hard work.

The country will have to make a choice: if it continues as it has in recent decades, the lack of opportunity will mean a more divided society, marked by lower growth and higher social, political and economic instability. Or it can recognize that the economy has lost its balance. The gilded age led to the progressive era, the excesses of the Roaring Twenties led to the Depression, which in turn led to the New Deal. Each time, the country saw the extremes to which it was going and pulled back. The question is, will it do so once again ?

~

per ardua ad astra ...

~

Joseph Eugene Stiglitz, is an American economist and a professor at Columbia University. He is a recipient of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences (2001) and the John Bates Clark Medal (1979). He is also the former Senior Vice President and Chief Economist of the World Bank.

[Article copied verbatim under "Fair Use" via http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31709.htm , from an article which originally appeared in the UK 'Financial Times'.]

93 Comments

93 Comments


Read the Rules

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by JackHall (401) 1 year ago

Many of the comments here make strong points. Americans have lost the flame. The fire has gone out. When? The day Richard M Nixon became President of the United States is as good a date as any. The Kennedy assassinations are other dates that are frequently referred to as turning points.

While the Tea Party is playing with torches the country could be ignited by reading the Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. (etc.)”

In 2013 the highest tax bracket is taxed at 39.6% on income above $450K. In 1986 it was 50% on income above $175K. In 1980 it was 70% on income above $215K. In 1961 it was 90% on income above $400K. In 1944 it was 94% on income above $200K. In 1927 it as 22% on income above $64K.

Stiglitz said:The U.S. grew far faster in the decades after the second world war, when inequality was lower, than it did after 1980, since when the gains have gone disproportionately to the top.

The period of greatest economic growth was when the income taxes were the highest!

If our government had left the tax brackets the way FDR had them we would not be having this discussion.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Revolution : An Instruction Manual'' :

Thanx for your very strong cris de coeur comment and in compliment I append and recommend the short video essay above and hope you'll get the relevance here. He talks fast but quite sensibly ~i~

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

Nope, it's a land where "80 Percent Of U.S. Adults Face Near-Poverty, Unemployment: Survey" according to the Associated Press.

"Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/28/poverty-unemployment-rates_n_3666594.html

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

J. Stiglitz's analysis is quite correct again. The last time I needed a commitment for seed capital I found that after meeting with 26 potential investors in Japan I came home with a commitment for $10 million, exactly what I needed. I couldn't raise half of that with three times the meetings in the US/. Plenty here wanted to be invited into the second round, almost none in the first.

There a number of places that will offer seed funding if you will locate where they are.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I'll be interested to find out how this works. I'll bet that some will abuse it right away and discredit it, thereby poisoning the well for the good guys.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I have to ask, if this is not the land of opportunity, then where would one go who wants to be aggressive and create something?

Which countries would be a better place to go and make something great?

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

It won't take much research to get you there, if you are serious. Of course it depends on what you want to do. I looked seriously at Canada. The Maritime provinces provided very attractive packages, trained happy workforces, turnkey facilities, IP security, etc. Alberta was also attractive. If I had a serious software requirement, Northern Europe or Estonia would be interesting.

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Given the obviousness of these facts for all to see, how can anyone defend against them? How???

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"How ?" - you ask ! I'll answer by saying that by "anyone" being a victim if a lifetime's worth of Wholly Corporate Owned MSM (ABCNNBCBS-FUX SNEWzzz ; Sean Insanity / Bull O'Really / Thrush Slimeball et al) "PROPAGANDA" !!!

Television is the most powerful weapon of psychological warfare in history and yet it is a member of the family in most households. The programming that we are constantly assaulted with conditions us to a particular worldview. This fake reality changes our behavior making us less active and more compliant with society's shortcomings.

Since television is controlled by a small handful of powerful corporations, viewers will never witness informing, truthful news and entertainment. As political and corporate power unite at an ever increasing rate, being informed is more important than ever.

People need to seek out independent and alternative unbiased sources on the internet for their information or we will continue to be manipulated by the corporate controlled media.

fallaces sunt rerum species ...

[-] 1 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 1 year ago

It's so nice when the enemy without psychoanalyzes itself isn't it? So conscientious, so self-conscious, nice... note that this was not published in the US; the Brits are so much more sophisticated in their critiques aren't they?

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Re. ''note that this was not published in the US'' ! Right !! Neither was this :

Brits aren't more ''sophisticated'' but they do get that 'socialism' is not evil. And 'question for a question' :

What ''enemy without'' ?! What about 'the enemy within' of Wall Street ?! Ever heard of The Lewis Powell Memorandum or are you going to need spoon feeding ?!!!

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 1 year ago

I see Lewis Powell as a moderate and in many ways far too liberal; perhaps I should say, too generous.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Lewis Powell Memo ''too liberal'' ?!!! Really ?!! 'Mein Kampf' too wishy-washy for you ?! Are you trying to get a rise or do you you even know what you are saying ? Lol & :

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 1 year ago

Yearight... but look at this forum. The only forces of opposition we have in this country right now are the so called Tea Baggers, the Conservatives, and the Republicans, against government that has become increasingly paranoid. We have a Supreme Court that regularly rules against Constitutionality and the rights of the people, that has militarized our police, that has relaxed the 4th and increased surveillance, that is demanding high taxes, attempting to disarm us, that is decidedly anti-Christian. Anti-Christian in a place like America? Really? In short the reason they are paranoid is because they are anti-American and not just anti some Americans but anti all Americans - they are against the people. These things effect everyone. What was once a slave to the people has become its master. Our institutions like academia and Hollywood have also become increasingly paranoid because they know that without the support of authoritarian government that they too will cease to exist. Because they are determined narcissists whose opinions are not those of a majority. When was the last time you watched TV? I haven't watched it in over ten years; why? Because it's all about sensationalism, degradation, and atypical behavior. There is nothing there that glamorizes the human condition; there is nothing there that offers hope. But... this forum, this supposed force of opposition, fully supports them.

[-] 3 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

How does this forum "fully support them".

And define "them", while you're at it.

[-] 1 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 1 year ago

"Them" is the Democrat party that is currently the reigning central authority, that grows increasingly authoritarian, increasingly dictatorial and militaristic, increasingly fascist. And increasingly paranoid. They are not your savior, they are our enemy. Only the conservative stands opposed. And they stand alone.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Sorry to piss on your parade, but there is no "us and them" as in left and right, conservative and democrat.

It's a class war, and I'm surprised that someone who clearly has a grasp on the language is still falling for the bullshit spread by the corporatocracy.

[-] 1 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 1 year ago

Bullpussy... this isn't class war; this is us against corporatocracy, it's us against them. You're merely introducing semantics to obfuscate.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Did you read my post?

"As in" did you read my post?

If corporatocracy is the enemy, then what part of "it's a class war" are you having trouble with, exactly?

[-] 1 points by PortugueseExplorer (10) 1 year ago

It's semantics; you are assuming an aristocracy that does not exist.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Errrr, re. ''The only forces of opposition we have in this country right now are the so called Tea Baggers, the Conservatives, and the Republicans, against government that has become increasingly paranoid.'' - errrrrm ... IF you think that The Repugnants are the answer to anything then you've got the memory of a goldfish and are too trapped in your Duopoly Democracy Delusion to see that all Americans have is the choice between Bat Shit Crazy Republicons and de facto right wing Democraps.

The American Left and the majority of people who instinctively understand 'The General Welfare Clause' of the US Constitution have no voice in the US & that's OWS' raison d'etre & the root of why most of us are here on this forum.

I don't talk about Repubs like I don't talk about stepping in dog shit !!! I just wipe, curse and try to move on !! I don't have the memory of a goldfish and I have not forgotten that utter bunch of mad criminals that constituted the George fkn W Bush administration ! Are you really sure that you are on the right forum ?

So, I suppose now the only real question here is ... dare you read that article ?!

spero ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

"On the Road to Ryan and Ruin", by Lawrence Davidson :

"With Romney-Ryan, GOP Becomes Grand Old Private-Equity Party", by John Nichols :

caveat emptor ...

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

U.S. Median Annual Wage Falls To $26,364 As Pessimism Reaches 10-Year High

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/us-incomes-falling-as-optimism-reaches-10-year-low_n_1022118.html

While corporations earn ridiculous profits and share very meager, tiny portions with employees:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-profit-2012-1

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=revenue+per+employee+amazon+walmart+safeway

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''There was a time when slaves and indentured servants in America were owned and rented. Slavery was eventually abolished by the 13th amendment to the Constitution, and in 1935, the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) gave workers rights to join together to bargain about their working conditions. But what if an employer could block its employees from hearing about the advantages of collective bargaining ?

''Lechmere was the anchor store and part owner of a strip mall located within the Greater Hartford, Connecticut area. Lechmere had roughly 200 employees. Members of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union (UFCW) were interested in talking with Lechmere employees about joining the UFCW. Cynics will say that "union bosses" just want more members so they can collect more dues. Those cynics are correct that money is an issue, but they misunderstand the many ways that money matters to unions and union members and the ways that unions and money matter to our quality of life.

''Long experience has shown that employers will compete based on price, and the easiest way to compete on price is to cut wages and benefits. When employees are powerless and desperate enough, they will agree to work for nothing.'' Excerpted from :

Many thanx bw for your excellent and highly informative links which I recommend to all serious readers.

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

Yes, they cut wages and benefits for everyone but themselves. From today's NY Times, "An Unstoppable Climb in CEO Pay"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/business/an-unstoppable-climb-in-ceo-pay.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

What is it these people don't get about their unbridled, immoral greed?

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Self-righteous Randian psychopathy is conducive to 'the not getting' but history and reality will still have to take their course. Thanx for your strong link, in compliment to which, I append :

''Income inequality is at its greatest level since The Great Depression, with the top one percent of Americans capturing an astounding 93 percent of all annual income gains in the post-2008 era. This represents a dramatic acceleration of an already extreme trend from the 1980s through the 2000s, when the top one percent captured one-sixth of all income created, and the top 10 percent captured approximately one half of created wealth.

''With the dramatic decline in the economic fortunes of most Americans, one would think that awareness of the growing class divide in the United States would be as pronounced as ever. Sadly, this is not the case. On one level, recognition of inequality and elite power is fairly high among Americans. For example, a December 2012 Pew Research Center poll found that 76 percent of Americans felt that "it's really true that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer." Similarly, a Pew survey from January 2012 revealed that 77 percent agreed "there is too much power in the hands of a few rich people and large corporations in the United States."

''Despite these findings, evidence suggests that Americans - while they are concerned about wealth inequality - are not sufficiently aware of the fundamental divide that exists within the American economic class system. Americans are concerned with growing inequality and with excessive corporate power, but they aren't aware of just how extreme the American wealth divide has become. This point was made clear in a 2011 Duke-Harvard study, which found that perceptions of inequality were far less extreme than actual inequality.''

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

It is a ruse that this is not a class society. This is very much a class society and it's highly segregated. None of this is official, but it's there, beneath the surface. It's also not a meritocracy because money can buy just about anything, nothing is sacred.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

The US IS a class based society & you're right - it's a fantasy to presume otherwise. Thus, consider :

''One of the most important and yet most neglected determinants of the outcomes of the economic crisis and resultant deepening of social inequalities and immiseration is the ‘class struggle’.

''The future lies in building bridges within & between the millions of exploited, excluded & dispossessed who have lost everything & have finally recognized that only via the class struggle can they recover their humanity & a dignified standard of living.''

ad iudicium ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20524) 1 year ago

"Our middle class is falling further and further behind in comparison to the rest of the world. We keep hearing that America is number one. Well, when it comes to middle-class wealth, we’re number 27."

"The International Labor organization produced a remarkable study (Global Wage Report 2012-13) that sorts out the causes of why wages have remained stagnant while elite incomes have soared"

FINANCIALIZATION.

“Financialization means the increasing role of financial motives, financial markets, financial actors and financial institutions in the operation of the domestic and international economies.” From Leopold.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

'Globalisation' as TPTB push it is really all about the freedom for the venal corporations and The 0.01% Parasite Class and is a way for them to divide and pit the Global 99% against itself, in a blind pursuit of ever lower wages and ever lower returns for Labour and simultaneously, the fastest extraction possible of ever greater profits and returns for Capital. Increasingly, we need to Globalise Resistance :

Globalisation and ''Finacialization'' are now inseparable bedfellows. Thanx for your excerpts and to quote Adam Smith, ''the vile maxim of the masters of mankind : all for ourselves and nothing for other people."

The grossly inflated financial sector has actually become a job-destroying, home-breaking, life-crushing machine, which clearly impoverishes others to enrich itself. The tighter its grip on politics, the more its representatives must tell the opposite story, ie. of life-affirming enterprise, innovation and investment, of brave entrepreneurs making their fortunes out of nothing but grit and wit. A century ago, entrepreneurs sought to pass themselves off as parasites as they adopted the style and manner of the titled, rentier class and the idle aristocracy. Today the parasites claim to be hard working entrepreneurs.

The old joke goes that there is no such thing as an 'American Working Class' as it's only a nation full of temporary distressed millionaires, though any 'lol' is now rather forced. There is little free about the 'free market', as someone somewhere always has to pay, such are the nature of "Externalities". These days, it is quite explicitly - The 99% who are simultaneously paying the cruel price all across this whole 'bw' !

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20524) 11 months ago

"The grossly inflated financial sector has actually become a job-destroying, home-breaking, life-crushing machine, which clearly impoverishes others to enrich itself. The tighter its grip on politics, the more its representatives must tell the opposite story, ie. of life-affirming enterprise, innovation and investment, of brave entrepreneurs making their fortunes out of nothing but grit and wit. A century ago, entrepreneurs sought to pass themselves off as parasites as they adopted the style and manner of the titled, rentier class and the idle aristocracy. Today the parasites claim to be hard working entrepreneurs."

That was worth repeating. Thanks.

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

For a short but stomach churning insight into said 'parasitism', please further consider :

Thanx bw for excerpting the above but re. my link above : 'Warning ; Apoplexy Inducing' !!!

fiat justitia ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20524) 11 months ago

"The Totally Unfair And Bitterly Uneven 'Recovery,' In 12 Charts"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/13/uneven-financial-crisis-recovery-charts_n_3913882.html

That article you link to is so very sad. From it: "This man owed $134 in property taxes. The District sold the lien to an investor who foreclosed on his $197,000 house and sold it. He and many other homeowners like him were left with nothing."

What those charts and your article shows is that our country has gone mad. It has lost it's humanity. We must get the economic system back to a place where it serves the people and not vice versa.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

''Wall Street, the wealthy and the powerful have done amazingly well since the crisis ended. Little of that has trickled down to everybody else, in what has been the most uneven recovery in at least several decades.'' - from your excellent link, which I recommend to all readers & further to which, I append :

''We feel instinctively that societies with huge income gaps are somehow going wrong. Richard Wilkinson charts the hard data on economic inequality, and shows what gets worse when rich and poor are too far apart: real effects on health, lifespan, even such basic values as trust. In "The Spirit Level," Richard Wilkinson charts data that proves societies that are more equal are healthier, happier societies.''

More charts and some chat to back up your fundamental point re. the economy and who it should serve.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20524) 11 months ago

And, they say happiness levels off after a certain amount of income anyway. So, what are all these rich people doing with all that money? Is it making them any happier? Statistics say no. Perhaps, in the end, the money owns them and their happiness decreases. I wouldn't be surprised.

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (14035) 0 minutes ago

It's today's plague.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

The plague caught by the few but killing the masses.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Replying here no reply button.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (14035) 1 minute ago

True. Because the kind of greed we have seen has to be an illness because it lacks all signs of humanity.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Greed - " The MAJOR Pandemic of our times " that was always feared - has arrived. Call the CDC the AMA - the Sturgeon General.......................ground all flights entering or leaving USA airspace............quarantine wallstreet and the Fed Reserve....................Haz-mat teams to set-up treatment centers at all governmental offices........................seal the borders.....shutdown the ports....This disease that has already killed uncounted millions before now......it is now spreading like wild fire through drought bleached fields and forests.......

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20524) 11 months ago

It's today's plague.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 months ago

Such is the nature of addiction.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20524) 11 months ago

True. Because the kind of greed we have seen has to be an illness because it lacks all signs of humanity.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 months ago

Alas, in The U$A such is ''The Price of Inequality and the Myth of Opportunity", by Joseph Stiglitz:

''A closer look at those at the top reveals a disproportionate role for rent-seeking: some have obtained their wealth by exercising monopoly power; others are CEOs who have taken advantage of deficiencies in corporate governance to extract for themselves an excessive share of corporate earnings; and still others have used political connections to benefit from government munificence – either excessively high prices for what the government buys (drugs), or excessively low prices for what the government sells (mineral rights).

''Likewise, part of the wealth of those in finance comes from exploiting the poor, through predatory lending and abusive credit-card practices. Those at the top, in such cases, are enriched at the direct expense of those at the bottom.

''It might not be so bad if there were even a grain of truth to trickle-down economics – the quaint notion that everyone benefits from enriching those at the top. But most Americans today are worse off – with lower real (inflation-adjusted) incomes – than they were in 1997, a decade and a half ago. All of the benefits of growth have gone to the top.''

All who overdose on avarice, larceny and selfishness had better contemplate the camel getting the the eye of the needle in the parable and reflect on the tenets and precepts of karma.

fallaces sunt rerum species et momento mori ...

[EDIT : Excellent !! Thanx for below :-) & Solidarity bw & @ #S17]

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20524) 11 months ago

In honor of the anniversary of the Occupation of Zuccotti Park 2 years ago, let's contemplate some of the many placards that people took the time to think about and make and display in that beautiful array of humanity:

"Arrest One of Us, Two More Appear: You Can't Arrest an Idea"

"End Corporate Personhood"

"Wall Street Has Murdered Me, I'm Dead"

"Next Step: General Strike"

"1% Rich, 99% Poor"

"Betrayed"

"Democracy Not Plutocracy"

"I Love Humanity: Let's Figure This Shit Out Together"

"I Could Lose My Job For Having a Voice"

"Welcome to the USA Where We Still Profit Off of Sickness"

"Where's Our Bailout?"

"I'm So Angry That I Made a Sign"

"Foreclose On Banks, Not People"

"Tear Down Wall Street Greed"

"Smash Capitalism, Liberate the Planet"

See them here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=placards+at+zuccotti+park&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.52164340,d.dmg,pv.xjs.s.en_US.CQsooEYev9Y.O&biw=1366&bih=640&dpr=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=rI03UoPyGeLi4APq4IGgBw

[-] -2 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Agreed, it's time for a new deal, so a new constitution is needed for new times, as follows:

We the peoples, in order to secure Freedom and Justice for All, do enact this Constitution for Strategic International Systems LLC (or SIS LLC) as summarized in the following Business Operations Forecast:

The customer value mission of SIS LLC is (1) to organize all customer-investors into 3,000 investment squad sites of 16 friends (or virtual specialties), and related internet investment legislatures of 50,000 friends (or virtual towns), requiring (2) a $20 weekly capital contribution for 1 year (or $1,000) to (3) create your investment club bank of 50,000 friends (or physical town) -- that is, having $50 million in initial assets -- which (4) due to the operation of today’s fractional banking system becomes (5) $500 million in new annual business loans (or $10,000 in new annual individual loans, plus $10,000 more credit every year thereafter) from yourself as a new bank officer to yourself as a new business officer who (6) takes 75% employee business control as business officer-investors and 25% customer business control as bank officer-investors of (7) your specific 12 businesses (or investments) in your new bank investment account wherein (8) your investor voting power equals (9) your 1 of 12 levels of experience in (10) your 1 of 12 sectors in 1 of 50 industries in 1 of 200 occupations in 1 of 3,000 specialities which (11) votes-upon your purchasing (or investment) orders as (12) proposed by your employee-elected chain of command.

This means you will have 75% employee business control over your workplace as business officers and, as bank officers, 25% customer business control over all 12 investments (or businesses) in your new bank investment account. In turn, with this 100% town-level business control of your 3,000 workplaces, you can decrease your 12 customer consumption expenses by 75% for services, vehicles, education, retail, food, construction, technology, manufacturing, wholesale, health, justice, and banking expenses; that is, over your first 12 years of SIS LLC membership using a 75% more effective and efficient town design, and related 3,000 workplace designs (herein). Furthermore, while creating your new town & workplace design as described by this constitution, you will replace today’s communist big businesses, and related big governments, with your new small investment club banks, and related small businesses (or investments), as proposed, financed, and patronized by your 3,000 investment squad sites of 16 friends (or virtual specialties) in your internet investment legislature of 50,000 friends (or virtual town).

Why? First, because today’s executive business income (mostly from bank or financial asset income) is 33% of all income which is a huge amount of upper 1% income to split among yourselves as new bank officers having 25% customer business control, right? Second, because today’s executive business wealth is 42% of all wealth which is a huge amount of upper 1% wealth to split among yourselves as new business officers having 75% employee business control; that is, only after becoming new bank officers (above) first, right?

For example, this means if you earn $12/hour today, then you will earn $36/hour tomorrow after adding (1) your old wage income, plus (2) your 33% (more and new) interest income as a new bank officer, plus (3) your 42% (more and new) dividend & gain income as a new business officer. Together, these 4 sources of wealth & income from your specific 12 businesses (or investments) will double your net worth every 6-12 years (until retirement); that is, from the compound interest decline of today's upper 1% executives whom you will replace as the new bank & business investor-officers. So, with this power, let’s end today’s communist big businesses, and related big governments, okay? How? By helping to operate your own Business Operations Forecast (above) at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/ in combination with NextDoor.com; so help us help you, today!

The full specification, if you don't fully understand the above, is at: https://docs.google.com/a/strategicinternationalsystems.com/document/pub?id=1mKKLMTIyvRCLK2ppPj_GDjdieCvJnATaZaCmlajubWU

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

When people arent responding it means that either your messaging is off or they dont care.

Either way, head back to the drawing board.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

And by the way, 20 people have joined the site, so I guess the drawing board is working well enough so far.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Hey, at least you are doing something, better than most of em.

It was just a suggestion to help you, no need to get your junk in a twist.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Or they are too stupid to understand facts (or math). Republicans understand but they're blinded by bigotry; Democrats don't understand because they're blinded by mental laziness. I'll speak as much as I like and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it, so piss-off.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Keep pissing in the wind dude...

I personally think you are asking too much time of people for the simple act of banking.

Apparently no one else thinks much of it at all.....

Only one thing to do, get a bigger hammer :)

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

The actual return for a bank investor-officer is much greater than it is for a business investor-officer. For example, if you invest a $1,000 in capital you can loan out 10 times more (or $10,000). If you loan that out at 10%, then your interest income is $1,000 on a $1,000 investment, or a 100% return per year (but you have to have 50,000 people and a CEO plus staff to make that return). Nonetheless, that's why banks earn 33% of all profit (10 times higher than any other industry except health care). Consequently, if you are not a bank investor-officer, you're nobody because the entire business and government system revolves around bank investor-officers, right? I guess you're a nobody, but not me and mine -- he, he, he.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Well lets not start declaring who is a nobody and who isnt, because quite frankly Im sure htere are quite a few areas that you are inadequate in.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Like I said, if you're not a bank investor-officer, you're nobody; that's fact, not whatever world of fantasy you live in.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I live in the same world as you. And if you were next to me right now, your tone would be much different, one would think. People who place a very high importance on money are usually the wormy, squirmy type.

Good night worm. We should post pics of spouses on here and let the world judge who the nobody is.

Later.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

In order to catch a criminal, like today's communist big banks, and related big businesses and big governments, the cop mirrors the criminal, step-by-step. That's what the above plan does, it mirrors the criminal who is focused on money by taking the money away from him and spreading it out. They have absolute power as upper 1% bank investor-officers. I'm just giving the other 99% the means to have the same power, albeit much more greatly disbursed, for disbursed power can't be dictatorial like it is today among upper 1% bank investor-officers. If you like being suckered by these dictators, that's okay, you're not the first repuglican to be suckered, nor will you be the last. My direct democrats will do better -- bank on it -- while overthrowing today's fake democrats too (who are just more repuglicans in disguise). See you in the financial statements -- oh no, that's right, you'd rather take a hammer to your head as a republican stooge or democrat know-nothing.

[-] -1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

And by the way, I'm at 1505 Woodbury, in Orlando, FL; stop by on Monday at 10:00, call out for Eric Atkinson, and I'll be happy to kick your ass.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

no need to get touchy, are you a trained fighter?

[-] -1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Don't come alone though; I've got friends, do you?

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Bringing the butcher crew along for this one?

[-] 0 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Former Marine, I apologize though. I'm just bitter about the ineffectiveness and inefficiency of mankind's societal design, so when people start making threats to protect that design, I revert to military thinking in how to corner, cuff, chain, and cage the beast. And yes, I am trained as a warrior along with my friends, but the last person who wants real war is a soldier.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Marines arent soldiers. And once a Marine, always a marine.

Im guessing you werent infantry?

Sincerly, A possible hard charger devil dog that may or may not give you too much to chew on.

PS- favorite Chesty Puller quote- take me to the brig, i want to see the REAL marines :)

[-] 0 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Not infantry, avionics, but can kill with my hands (several ways), am a sharpshooter with a rifle, and I always "carry a big stick" because I don't believe in "speaking softly" to repuglican-stooges or demo-fascists. Most people are neither after they get to know me for a while (face-to-face), but sometimes it takes time to break the ice, so being armed, at all times, is justified, given my attitude of cutting straight through their crap to the law (or science). His permalink on the next line about shooting expert on the first try is a LIE -- typical for repuglicans to lie about their accomplishments just to feed their fantasy egos.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Sharp shooter? I shot expert my first time through...

[-] 0 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 2 years ago

Like I said, 20 people have joined, so you're obviously wrong; you just can't admit being in a turkey shoot.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

In compliment: Has the classic Uncle Toms cabin scenario been revived modernly as a colorless struggle beset on all peoples by Simon Legree ( the banks/corpoRATions ) ?

Simon Legree is a cruel slave owner—a Northerner by birth—whose name has become synonymous with greed.

Uncle Tom's Cabin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[-] -2 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

See, "Financial Crime" (A 'Must Watch' Video) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqvU83sqhPE ~

Thanx for your link and comment - in compliment of which, I append and recommend the above telling, short and infuriating link & note that 'stinkle-bots' are loose. The raving, rancid reactionaries abound, lol.

pax ...

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Thanks, Financial Crime is a concise video that everyone should watch.

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''The epiphany (is) in some cases that our grievances are all connected...and what binds us is far more powerful than what has divided us'' Amen :-) &

But as you say re. the video link above, ''Financial Crime - is a concise video that everyone should watch.'' Solidarity 'O' to you and yours and happy Skype-ing the li'l one :-)

pax ...

[-] 4 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

The absurdities that have been propagated by the beneficiaries of the status quo to perpetuate this corupt financial system would be laughabe if the consequences to 'we the people' weren't so bad

People in the rest of the world must think Americans are a bit daft, or....lost their direction

I mean for a country that led the world with so many good things that benefited the common people, we seem to be the least aware of what is going on, and/ the least prepared to do anything to rectify it

Still though, I am confident that we will awaken from our slumber, and when we do, there will be hell to pay

Thanks for the great very relevant links that were concise enough so that there's still time to see what the li'l one was up today....Solidarity shadzy to you & yours here & there!

On another note, I wanted to share this with everyone, and here with you is a good time to do it. I was in NY Saturday for the first time since returning from AK... where I saw some of my OTS/OWS friends and where I met some lovely new ones

We took part in the Bradley Manning demonstration in Central Park. The high-light was a play that was put on in front of the IMAGINE sidewalk mosaic at Strawberry Fields.

Let's see if I remember correctly.....rope laid out on the ground in a rectangular fashion (prison)...Manning dressed in a dark jump-suit pleading his case....two stern-looking guards in Army fatigues....then suddenly people speaking up from the crowd...one by one on the need to have honesty, and the people's right to know what it's government is doing....and one by one....they were grabbed by the guards and put in the prison.

It was very well done, and it brought the crowd to a complete silence. I do not tear up easily, but I did as i thought of how rotten my country has become

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

Solidarity @ www.bradleymanning.org/ ~*~ Many thanx for your very moving comment and report back from the demo 'O' & solidarity as Pvt. Bradley Manning joins the biggest prison population in the world :

''The United States has spent $300 billion since 1980 to expand its prison system. We imprison 2.2 million people, 25 percent of the world’s prison population. For every 100,000 adults in this country there are 742 behind bars. Five million are on parole.''

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] -1 points by TikiJ (-38) 1 year ago

Damn.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 1 year ago

Yes.."Damn" is a good word for it

~Odin~

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

(A 'Must Watch' Video)

Absolutely.

A 'Must TWEET' Video

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday

Financial Crime http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqvU83sqhPE … But why is it not dealt with as such? Pls Share/Circulate

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

WTF is it coming to when your 99%-centric comment and video tweet gets stinkled ?!!! Beware, 0.01% stooges, Koch suckers & corporo-whores are loose on this forum, lol !! Fk 'em, with a cactus - no 'KY' !

e tenebris ...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

http://occupywallst.org/forum/welcome-to-botopia/

whoever is aware of them and running them, are not happy.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

The stand out comment from your link :

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Yes!

I like what BW said there.

I know when I've felt cornered by glib attacks, I just start posting informative links.

I've done that to trashy a few times, it makes them start acting weird.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''Cornered by glib attacks'' ?! Nah !! She can chew up any right-wing, corporate, 99% hating fool without breaking a sweat !!! And there lies the crux of the matter, as they won't take her on in a fair fight so will snipe and gripe silently from the dark like the dickless, halfwits that they are, lol.''Informative facts'' you say ? Wrap your eyeballs around this then :

Hmmm, maybe that's why multi-millionaires keep voting for the benefit of The 0.01% & their 1% cronies.

radix omnium malorum est cupiditas ....

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Pleonexia, has become pandemic!

Too bad they won't develop a pill for that.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

They have one - but they only issue it to secret agents in case they are captured - Should any of your economic terror force be captured the secretary will disavow any knowledge.......

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

LOL

We could feed them those bitumin infused catfish!!!!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

We could feed them those bitumin infused catfish!!!!

Meals ready to eat ( LOL ) - well kind of - just strike a match and - walla - a hot meal in moments. Food fit for a kink - perfect for the greedy in your neighborhood.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

There's 'Kleptocracy in The U$A' or as Gore Vidal had it ''The United States of Amnesia''. Also see :

''All the monsters of history are to be found among the absolute leaders exercising absolute power in disregard of the interests of people. Since the Washington-based major war complex orchestrated the bogus War on Terrorism, American politics in one-sided syndrome for unknown present and futuristic disasters. If America cannot deal with its own domestic problems of unusual violence, killings of the innocent, natural disasters and fear-mongering politics, how could it be helpful to others in global political domains?

''Do politicians having small wisdom but big mouth and knowledge can determine the future of mankind? If history is relevant and is seen as a source of learning and warning, undeniably all those superpowers well equipped with weapons and animosity to destroy others or all have met the same fate of self annihilation. It is beyond doubts that when they challenged the sanctity of the Laws of God governing the earth and the living Universe, and invaded small and poor nations in farfetched lands, they ultimately met their own end in waiting by the natural causes such earthquakes, flooding, tornados, exploding lavas, sound blasts, lightning and lot more. There is no denying but a fact of life that this is how the Roman Empire, Nazi Germany, British, Russian (USSR) and so many others have ended up in human history. Is this is what the US Empire in its infancy waiting to endure?''

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

I remember quite well.

Observant motherfucker, I am.

Today it's the United States of ALEC.

Pleonexia by the way, is an actual medical condition.

http://wordsmith.org/words/pleonexia.html

It's been known since the time of ancient Greeks.

http://www.tecumsehproject.org/pleonexia-and-psychopathy.html

Is there a doctor in the house?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Hhmmmmmmmmm - co-inky-dink ?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

LOL = Fk 'em ... with a cactus .. no 'KY' !

Or a Rasp mounted in a power drill?

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

I know that they're a bunch of bloody asses but steady on there (I say throwing stones from my glass house, lol). Solidarity & also fyi, consider : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35688.htm .

verum ex absurdo et fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No prob - it does not bother me - as I know what they are about - what sucks is when they do it to new-comers who don't know about them.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

BTW - good article: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35688.htm Heaven help you if you are poor - hell the fed government won't talk about you let alone recognize that you exist.

There is the wealthy class

There is the middle class

and apparently

there is the void from which new middle class people appear from or failing to remain middle class disappear back into.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

BTW - TWEET - BTW.

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday

The Business of Mass Incarceration http://j.mp/19vDwO3

It's hell to be poor.

Hell the Government won't even talk about you.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 1 year ago

''How Rich is Congress ?'' : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35705.htm .

Tweet that please buddy & thanx for doing so to that previous alarming article. Solidarity.

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28248) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That "IS" a Huge problem = wealthy in office. Because their reality has very little to do with the rest of us.

TWEETEN-TWEET

DKAtoday ‏@DKAtoday Protected account 20s

How Rich is Congress? http://j.mp/11tgUZs

Look & Understand why they are out of touch with all of our REALITIES.

No basis 4 comprehension