#ows Takes The Streets In Solidarity With #occupyoakland
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 27, 2011, 2:53 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Last night hundreds marched through the streets of NYC, chanting "New York is Oakland, Oakland is New York." We circled City Hall, ran in the streets, refused to be kettled or have our voices silenced, marched up broadway, North on 6th Ave, circled around on Bleecker, and marched south against traffic on 6th ave, running past police barricades, running past our fear, running in solidarity with each other and #occupyoakland.
A second march split off and rushed past police, marching against traffic on Broadway, to make our way to Union Square, where we read a message of solidarity with Oakland and held an impromptu forum on police brutality. We marched, ran, chanted and drummed for hours, and took our streets back on the way home to Liberty Square.
We will not be afraid, we will not be silenced, we will not stand quietly while police brutalize peaceful occupiers. We fight for true democracy, and we fight to end the tyranny of the 1%. This is only the beginning. We are all Scott Olsen.
Capitalism must be replaced by democracy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlB3AxBws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu8J_UKKa-c
Its going to be a hard struggle, but the Occupy movement will prevail.
You do not have to replace capitalism to do that. Use your dollar as your vote. Capitalism is based on the idea that the consumer will balance and maintain the system. However, in today's world the consumer has been greedy, they have sought only the cheapest product with little regard to ethical impact of their decision. This greed has been reflected at the top. It is now up to consumers, it is up to us, to balance the system. We must overcome our greed and spend the extra dollar on the most ethical purchase, not the cheapest. Your dollar is a moral extension of yourself. You decide which companies to grow and which to weed out with each purchase you make. Support the organic, the sustainable, and the green. Buy your gifts from Main St. not Wal-Mart and shop local. Put your money in your local bank or credit union while avoiding the too big to fail.
Currently we need regulation to maintain accountability. It would not happen overnight but in a morally conscious market any immoral company would be defeated and render government regulation unnecessary. This could pave a path for liberals and conservatives overcome their differences come together under one movement acting as one people, which is what we truly are. United we will be powerful enough to make the change we both so desire. We can stand together to end corruption by reestablishing a morally accountable capitalism where government regulation is no longer necessary. We are not different, we are human beings. This is our moment. Be the change you want to see.
Comrades, Unite!!!
Unite for a Utopian States of AmeriKKKa!!!
That's good stuff there BrianPrichard. However, I do see consumer behavior as only one side of the equation. Ideally, capitalism requires free access to information. How are we to know who is using sustainable and ethical business practices unless we force them to be transparent? How will we know if they are lying unless somebody is checking up on them? How will we know the checkers arent lying unless somebody is checking on them?... My point is that business needs to be held accountable on both ends. Market forces alone have no ethical component, so you only have to APPEAR ethical to circumvent consumer intent to impose some sort of ethical/public interest framework.
RogerT, it's fallacious to blame all of that purely on capitalism. People were warring with and exploiting one another long before capitalism was ever conceived as a way to distribute resources. I do agree though, that our lack of vigilance has coughed up a menagarie of tyrants and things have had to get pretty bad before we woke up, but people have faced and are facing and overcomming much worse.
I see OWS as our first stirring. First an emotional reaction, theatrics that draw people's attention, next we need to decide on goals (might I suggest NARROW THE INCOME GAP and SEPERATE MONEY AND POLITICS), then implementation strategies. We need spokespeople who's motives are unquestionable and who come equipped with both the charisma to communicate well, and the stamina to see this thing through to the end.
@BrianPrichard - I love what your saying Brian and as far as my lifestyle choices are concerned I would have to say you're preaching to the converted. Not so for the majority of folks out there unfortunately.
I do however also have to agree with MBA a bit as well. Having been conscious of my consumer choices for such a long time, and having witnessed the growth of the "Buy local! Buy Green! Buy Organic!" movement I have seen quite a lot of green washing out there. Companies simply slapping and organic label on their products when in fact there is nothing organic about the product.
Anyway, at work right now so I can't formulate a huge response but I like what both of you have said and I think some sort of blend would be ideal. Well said the both of you.
Well, you're obviously sooooooo much better than the 'majority of folks out there'.
Narrow the income gap!!!
Rob the working to give to the freeloaders!!!
as opposed to letting banker con artists scam the rest of americans out of their money by giving away tax payers money interest free, then buying american debt and charging interest, then collecting more tax dollars from us when we bailed them out! yeah that sounds completely fair to let the federal reserve steal trillions of dollars of tax payers money - they took out $16 trillion dollars from the reserve and lent it to their banker friends interest free
and expect us to give them hand outs every goddamn time, well i'd rather give that to a homeless person than to anyone of those jerks who fire hundreds of people rather than cut their billion dollar salaries
Our goverment should be better at encouraging its citizens to start businesses. That would increase competition and employment. Instead it makes them the tax collectors. Even a lemonade stand must collect taxes. Absurd.
this wasn't the way our country was; our founding fathers never wanted an income tax, but rather state tarrifs and taxes to allow the people to have the power to voice their opinions
it wasn't until 1812 when we went to war that we absolutely needed income tax to fund wars, but we dismantled the idea of an income tax
income tax was not a part of the constitution until 1913 when the Federal Reserve was born and so was the income tax - look up the Federal Reserve, it is made up of 1/3 of banks in america - a separate entity from our government and it regulates our tax dollars! it dictates where our money goes and what to do with it, and congress has no say and no one knows where our money is.
it is a huge controversial issue, but the federal reserve must be stopped
more money = more votes = not democracy
It is a complex situation the mess we have gotten ourselves into. I am not advocating keeping the system in place. There are many things that can be done to improve on it in some areas and replace it in others. Unless we crash the whole system to build it back up again, then fixing the system is not something that will happen over night. A long term goal if you will. Morally conscious spending and investing is a message that all can agree on. It is an action that all can partake in today which will have an effect today. To what level that effect plays will depend upon how well we can spread the message. No it will not completely fix the problem, but it will send a message. When big business sees a profit in morality, we will begin to see things change for the better.
There is no such thing as morally conscious spending and investing when the Federal Reserve is the one controlling our money - the Reserve is made up of 1/3 of banks in America and they control our tax dollars - congress cannot even touch it or know any information about it. Alan Grayson has been asking where our money is for years. They have been manipulating our money, lending it to central banks all over europe and even lent about 16 trillion dollars interest free to banks in America - and that's our money! The banks then buy our national debt, and we end up having to pay them interest! So they are manipulating and scamming us, we must stop the federal reserve!
-this is basic information you can find on wikipedia and read End the Fed by Ron P.
I agree that there is good that can be achieved by the act of the purchase. However, presupposed in the solution you propose (ethical consumption) is that the majority of consumers have the luxury of choice. For the ethical choice to be made by most of the world's population, the choice needs to be 1). available 2). be clear and beneficial to an educated mind. Embedded in this urge to consume wisely there lies a trick...consume less, consume smart, in order to keep consuming and maintain the system. If what you propose had been the idea from the inception of capitalism then another world would have been possible. However the Market's natural use of exploitation has rendered wrongs in this world that cannot be unmade by wise consumption. The past raping of resources from the Congo, Haiti, etc, which has left countless communities with nothing cannot be repaired by buying products ethically from these communities now. See Andre Gunder Frank "Development of Underdevelopment" for example.
Morally accountable capitalism is a Utopian fantasy. I think your heart is in the right place, but there will always be some who would take advantage.
Brian,
If the gov't had been out of capitalism (Free Market, anyone?), the banks that sucked ass would have lost it all and been swept up by smaller, local banks and CUs. This would have been the way it is supposed to work. Instead, the gov't came in and threw money around and saved what shouldn't have been saved. But like any old house that we throw supports around, the structure will eventually deteriorate and fall regardless. Regulation only delays the inevitable ruin of a market (Greece).
And yes, it's been our personal choices that put us where we are. Our votes went to Wal-mart and companies like that. We will be the only ones bailing us out. We created this monster of Consumocracy.
Jhilton, Banjarama, RogerT and Brian, you instill me with hope. I am still a little wary of this movement. I am ready to revolt but not for something dumb like a Robin Hood tax. Wow, that's like "an eye for an eye". But what I read from you four, makes sense. Need more thinkers.
(For the record, my personal choices have been no TV [and less MTV] and very little consumerism. If you catch me in Wal-mart, it's because I am dead.)
Some people have a choice in where they shop. I live in a small town, and I can either shop at wal-mart, and get crap for a decent price. (note, not cheap) or I can shop at kroger, and pay twice as much, for something slightly better. Those are my choices for groceries. If I want anything outside of food, Walmart and Lowes are my only two choices, unless I want to drive ~50 miles. When walmart first came to town, they were priced pennies on the dollar compared to the local stores, this put them out of business of course. As who would pay 300$ for the exact same microwave, as you could get at walmart for 75$. Of course your going to walmart. Once the other local stores went out of buisness, walmart's prices skyrocketed, and they are now higher priced than the old local stuff, and the quality of wal-mart products have vanished. I would LOVE to go buy quality (good for the economy) stuff. But Please, tell me where I can go, As a rule of thumb, Chinese products are appearing to be better build quality than american stuff, as the american manufacturers are competing in price, and to do that, the quality has to be dropped more than the Chinese do, due to increased costs of expenses. Iphone, iPad, iPod, made @ FOXCONN in china, the worlds biggest factory complex, employing 300,000-450,000 chinese. Are there any american made alternatives to these products?
It is not easy. Normally doing what is morally right is the more difficult option. Small local shops and farmers markets can be hard to find sometimes. Many craftsmen sell from their hand made products from home by word of mouth while keeping a regular job. If you look, I bet you will be suprised.
This is the truth...this is what capitalism should look like! Powered by people purchases and architecture created by each individual decision...and RogerT it does not work because it means we the people have to really really work it! Think Slow Food! Slow Money, Slow Living! I am not sure I want to give so much up..but to save freedom and my daughter's future I will certainly try.
Brian...Will you marry me? lol While it woild be hard to get everyone to be morally accountable, if we could just mobilize the people who support the movement, we could absolutely impact the status quo. We must encourage anyone who will listen to use his money as the voice of his integrity.
There is no such thing as morally conscious spending and investing when the Federal Reserve is the one controlling our money - the Reserve is made up of 1/3 of banks in America and they control our tax dollars - congress cannot even touch it or know any information about it. Alan Grayson has been asking where our money is for years. They have been manipulating our money, lending it to central banks all over europe and even lent about 16 trillion dollars interest free to banks in America - and that's our money! The banks then buy our national debt, and we end up having to pay them interest! So they are manipulating and scamming us, we must stop the federal reserve!
-this is basic information you can find on wikipedia and read End the Fed by Ron P.
A morally accountable capitalism is a pipe dream. What you see is what you get with capitalism-- war, exploitation of working people, destruction of the environment, and ultimately fascism as the system begins to break down. Capitalism has had its day-- its time it was replaced.
I'm with RogerT on this one. Try to vote with your pay check against financial giant who uses your financial saving against you.
Morally responsible capitalism is a dream. For ex.: if you transfer your savings from Wall Street giant to 'morally responsible financial bank', Wall Street will just go and buy that bank (curtsy of your local financier).
Try this, try thinking of all the good things capitalism brings, it would out weight your list without even trying(take yourself out of the equation for a sec), please rethink your argument a little more. Your solution is not very well though out in my opinion.
All the good things war, famine, mass unemployment, environmental destruction, greed, oppression, and delusions about how great it is. Capitalism, like feudalism and the slave economy is long past the time it has anything good to contribute to the world-- the sooner it and its illusions are gone the better. I hope OWS is the first step on this path.
So what about all the people who like capitalism, do they have any say in this. With out any judgment, and finger pointing how are you going to explain to people that you know whats best for them.
The movement will educate people as they see how the capitalist system responds to the demands of the people for fairness and justice. When the people really understand what capitalism is all about they will not be so enamored with it. The people themselves will decide what is best for them.
I agree with the first part of your statement. It is a pipe dream. The brand of capitalism we have in the world today is NEOLIBERALISM. It has not always been this way. Free trade, deregulation, privatization of the commons. Exploitation of the poorest. Please people, research NEOLIBERALISM. "free trade is destroying the the US economy http://economyincrisis.org/
There may be partial truth in what you say but you will only find some that will agree and it will be a long road to make it happen. The morally accountable dollar is a message that all can agree on, liberals and conservatives alike. It is a message that can have a direct effect right now not tomorrow. It will be important to find a common ground and get over who's side is right. The Tea Party has as much passion and wants to end corruption as much as the Occupy Movement. We must overcome our racism of opposing thought before we can move forward as a nation.
It will be harder then you think. Bring your mobs to my front door to take my stuff. We will see how much you really beleive in your cause.
Wow i underestimated the idiocracy of you people until i read this. Amazing
Absolutely no counter-arguments. Now that´s idiocracy!
There was no counter argument needed dude. The statement we should replace capitalism with democracy is self defeating, uninformed. These are the kind of people voting nowadays its no wonder we are in the mess and Obama is able to use you people so easily.
still no counter arguments. How is it defeating? How is it uninformed? Are you able to come up with some arguments??
If communities and workplaces were run democratic then capitalism would sease to exist. The uninformed is YOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJnX96id-xI
Facepalm. They cannot be substituted quit embarrasing yourself. Easy to see why people like you wish they ran countries but dont.
Oh, you couldnt explain why what I was saying was self defeating, uninformed. Now, who´s the idiot?
Cant and dont have to are not the same thing. By definition and application alone the two cannot be compared nor substituted. Another useful idiot. I can see now why this empty movement has garnered so much support, too many of you.
Capitalism has created the highest standard of living ever known on earth.The evidence is incontrovertible. The contrast between West and East Berlin is the latest demonstration, like a laboratory experiment for all to see. Yet those who are loudest in proclaiming their desire to eliminate poverty are loudest in denouncing capitalism.
Man's well-being is not their goal.
Every movement that seeks to enslave a country, every dictatorship or potential dictatorship, needs some minority group as a scapegoat which it can blame for the nation's troubles and use as a justification of its own demand for dictatorial powers. In Soviet Russia, the scapegoat was the bourgeoisie; in Nazi Germany, it was the Jewish people; in America, it is the businessmen.
"Each player must accept the cards life deals him or her: but once they are in hand, he or she alone must decide how to play the cards in order to win the game." ~Voltaire
Excellent point. Capitalism was conceived as an efficient way to distribute resources and, done right, it does that well! Now, we businesspeople, in some ways have made our own bed. (Be careful not to overstate your case, I don't think anybody is considering rounding up MBAs and corporate board members... yet anyway :) Corporations can ramble on about mission statements, philanthropy and green initiatives all day long, but in the end, the board of directors, to whom the CEO is beholden, is in charge of increasing value for shareholders. Period. Our businesses are not CAPABLE of making decisions specifically to uphold the public interest. That HAS to come from outside. When we see that a dollar spent lobbying or supporting the campaign of a "pro-business" candidate provides a better return than a dollar spent on research or expanding operations within the current regulatory environment, WE HAVE TO DO IT. Why? As individuals, if we refuse, we'll simply be replaced, as organizations, if we refuse, we'll lose market share to our competitors. I think this is where the anti-capitalist sentiment is originating. We, the US Corporation MUST put pressure on legislators to create a favorable environment. We, the US Citizens must put pressure on legislators to make decisions that ensure the public interest. We (the Citizens) have fallen asleep at the switch and allowed the regulatory environment to fall out of equilibrium for a very long time. I can hear my "free market" colleagues beating at my door... Before they rip me to shreds, I'll ask them to recall Economics 101, what are the components of a perfect market economy? Players have free access to information. No player has enough market power to set prices. Firms are able to freely enter and leave the market. Equal access to technology. As a corporation, I know I can increase value for my shareholders by spreading disinformation, limiting transparency, erecting barriers to entry, acting in an anti-competitive manner (predatory pricing for example) increasing my power in the market, limiting access to technology etc. Without thoughtful and enforceable regulation, how are you going to stop me from subverting your economy for my benefit?
Not buy your product or use your service...
OK. So your choices are to go to my competitors (who, as I've discussed, are facing competitive pressure to do the same thing. With no regulation, the big players in my industry are vertically integrated and scaled to be able price local competitors out of the market though there might be a few stragglers serving you pesky informed consumers, their prices are outrageous. If there are a few of us with market power and we can't gain an edge on one another, we are colluding to set prices) or opt out of the market. And since every corporation is set up to see the same opportunity, you'll have to make the same choice about EVERY market. Remember, with no regulation, I control your access to information about me. The media has no incentive to dig too deeply because my marketing dollars are paying their bills (if I don't own them outright). So, if you are somehow able to find me out, do you think you can convince more people to make informed purchasing decisions than I can convince to buy my products?
That is where our elected officials come in we keep their terms short so they desire to do their job due to the fact they might not have one after this.
I'm not calling for the end of laws illegal practices are still illegal and people should go to jail like many lenders should now, but we need honest officials in these positions to watch over such things to inform the populous about shady dealings.
So, we're just discussing the mechanisms by which officials watch over activity in the market. I submit that thoughtful, enforceable and, perhaps most importantly dynamic, regulation is indeed one component. The other is to limit the influence that corporate entities have on our officials so that they have incentives to remain honest.
When I wear my corporate hat, I love that we are considered people and our "campaign contributions" are protected as free speech. In the long run, it's cheaper for me to influence regulatory policy by influencing elections than it is to comply with some regulations. Whether or not that is in the public interest is not my concern. On the flip side, if I have already sunk capital into compliance efforts, it is in my best interest to make regulations more restrictive, to drive up the cost of compliance for my competitors, create a barrier to new entrants into my market AND market my products around my compliance efforts. I can't lose!
As a citizen, it makes me wretch to see my interests so handily shoved aside. I don't mind seeing groups that exist to influence politics in ways that they think are in the public interest. (though these organizations need to be watched as well, because the corporate side of my brain wants to influence them) Pro and anti-gun lobbies, pro and anti-abortion, capital punishment, labor unions, economists etc etc. Whether or not I agree with their point of view, at least I can believe that they are honest in their point of view and we are simply disagreeing about how best to go about protecting our own interests. These are conflicts that need to exist, discussions we SHOULD be having. Where corporations are concerned, I know, with certainty, that my interests are not a consideration. If they appear to be trying to influence politics in a direction that IS in my interest, it is purely coincidence.
If you like the idea of democracy you should automatically reject capitalism
http://occupywallst.org/forum/replace-capitalism-with-democracy/
That's why America is a Republic.
So you don´t like democracy..? So youre saying that USA is not a democracy?
A republican form of government is distinguished from a pure democracy, which the Founding Fathers wanted to avoid; as James Madison wrote in Federalist No. 10, "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. ~John Adams (1814)
I'm saying its a republic.
The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the Republican model of government, are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finally staked, on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people. ~George Washington
I know. But you didnt answer my questions.
So you don´t like democracy..? So youre saying that USA is not a democracy?
Whats your answer?
For over 30 years, the United States, with the guidance of our Congress and past presidents, has been moving closer and closer to Democracy and finally Socialism.
When our country was founded about 230 years ago, we were given a Republic. That's not a Democracy! President Franklin D. Roosevelt started throwing the term "democracy" around while he was president, and it seemed that no one noticed the difference.
And no I do not believe democracy works nor do I like the idea of America being one.
I get It. You dont like democracy..
Are you joking? It really took that long to understand what I was saying?
I had a strong suspicion all the time but received a final confirmation in the end
If it took you that long to pin Socrates down, rest assured he will never stand up for what he thinks. Do you vote at the poles, SP, or do you let your representatives do that for you? I'm curious what you think landed on the beach in Normandy in 1944 if it wasn't democracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxYyXGMfZM
Not even good jingoism. Capitalism (a economic system) cannot be replaced by democracy (a form of government). Capitalism may be replaced by other economic systems such as socialism where the state owns the means of production etc. and manages them for the people.
"Capitalism (a economic system) cannot be replaced by democracy (a form of government)"
Absolutely -by making the economy more democratic:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/replace-capitalism-with-democracy/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlB3AxBws
That is already in place, if you "vote" with your dollars. The banks are supported by the money of the people. If you don't like what you're bank is doing put your money in a credit union.
ridiculous. Democracy means one person one vote. Money is not equally distributed. It would be like saying that its democracy if men have 30 votes, and women have 1.
I want to spread DEMOCRACY to the workplaces and communities so that people can be in control over their own afairs, lives and work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHBvQRyOr0
That is the exact opposite, forcing one group of peoples view on another. How is that freedom?
That one youre gonna have to explain better.
Any time you force your views on someone else you are taking away their right, if you at anytime make someone do something they would not choose to do then you are taking away their rights.
Why can people not live by the constitution and freedom?
The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government – lest it come to dominate our lives and interests. ~Patrick Henry
The Constitution is a written instrument. As such, its meaning does not alter. That which it meant when it was adopted, it means now. ~South Carolina v. United States, 199 U.S. 437, 448 (1905)
Theres much less forcing under libertarian socialism than in capitalism.
You appear to have some misunderstandings about economic and govermental systems.
"Then please define how you would see socialism working without forcing others to sacrifice their rights and freedoms..."
I DO want to take away some freedoms (f.ex the right to exploit, and right to have huge power in society without being democratically elected) and replace them with better ones.
Nope.
Then please define how you would see socialism working without forcing others to sacrifice their rights and freedoms...
Not tell me "go look somewhere else" that I can see you like to do but your view on how it works.
Democracy? You mean the rule of the majority mob? No Thanks! Under a democracy, eventually majoritarian rule takes place, that is why the Founders of this country created a Republic to blunt the power and authority of the majority. Part of the problem is that the Republic was effectively destroyed in this country 150 years ago when Lincoln centralized the power of the federal government. Sorry, but we have suffered from the effects of a power democracy for decades, all stratified from the top elite down to the allowed contingent "freedom" the elite dole out. The easiest form of government to control is that of a democracy because the people get the fuzzy feeling that they actually have some control, they are placated, pacified and fed a constant diet of government coercion, mostly through the electoral process with promises of sugar-plums.
The United States is a federal constitutional republic... the founders setup a form of Representative democracy .... Two political parties, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, have dominated American politics since the American Civil War, although other parties have also existed. There are major differences between the political system of the United States and that of most other developed democracies. These include increased power of the upper house of the legislature, a wider scope of power held by the Supreme Court, the separation of powers between the legislature and the executive, and the dominance of only two main parties. The United States is one of the world's developed democracies where third parties have the least political influence.... While there is no universally accepted definition of 'democracy', equality and freedom have both been identified as important characteristics of democracy since ancient times. These principles are reflected in all citizens being equal before the law and having equal access to legislative processes. For example, in a representative democracy, every vote has equal weight, no unreasonable restrictions can apply to anyone seeking to become a representative, and the freedom of its citizens is secured by legitimized rights and liberties which are generally protected by a constitution. There are several varieties of democracy, some of which provide better representation and more freedom for their citizens than others. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America
Dude, really? Is this how you write papers in school too? You should be embarrassed...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_United_States
You need to get educated BEFORE you get into arguments, not during. You need to get educated BEFORE you start protesting, not during.
sheesh
Ya I know ... not writing a paper... Typing on a iPhone .... Leave me alone trol sheesh ... You are a embarrassment
Also, remember dear friends, that this occupy movement that is growing domestic in the US, but also around the world, is in a growing phase right now. We have to think in long term perspective. Big changes arn´t gonna come over night, were not gonna get freedom and democracy in a few weeks, this is going to be a long hard struggle. Like I´ve said from day one: This is the beginning of something huge! First we have to GROW: protest, making ourselves heard, convince, getting people to join, search for facts, enlighten then, when were big enough we can start changing the world :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHse0oaddr8
Right, STRUGGLE for freedom 80. Our demands are fluid, our strategy is tentative, and our tactics are Non-violence. So many of our potential demands would stabilise the present system; It's the 1% who wanted de-regulation and want more of the same. They are the present Global Leadership, and they are leading us all to Collapse. That's why we need new leadership. Collapse is an option, and the 1% are planning to survive, whatever happens to the rest of humanity and to biological diversity on this planet. Choosing the alternatives to Collapse means doing different things in a different way, for different reasons, and it means choosing different leaders. We need to all globally determine to collectively prevail, and endure, together. No more bubbles. Get off the gravytrain. Wean our individual selves from the Corporate Tits.
Excellent comment.
Excellent comment! I will be attending a new Occupy in Bangor Maine on Saturday! Keep growing! Keep educating. Educate yourself! Learn about the fraudulent mortgages that have ruined peoples lives. I just said to my daughter who lives in Oakland. A fraudulent mortgage is a much better way to rip off people than going into their home with a gun and stealing their money! It's theft! Hundreds and hundreds of Occupy Folks are in jail right now! Why aren't the people who creating these fraudulent mortgages in jail serving over 10 years! They are criminals!
Education!! Huge at this stage. Learn the Constitution and teach it back. Learn about the real problem with the economy. Learn about what has happened over the past ten years.
All excellent points and vital to the movement.
"They are criminals!"
Yes they are, but they´re criminals IN POWER, and criminals in power don`t go to prison until their power is taken away from them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2Q6sdh6Bg
TROLL
Wahhhhhhhhh! I want a pony!!! I want, I want, I want.
Oh yeah...I want it all for FREE!
Are you people paid to say this crap? I mean, I'm just wondering because it's NOT what OWS wants and continuing to pursue that line of rhetoric just make you look more and more clueless...
Wahhhhhhhhh! I want a bailout!!! I want, I want, I want.
Oh yeah...I want it all for FREE!
The answer is to start singing as they attack.
"I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free. And I won't forget those who died, who gave that right to me. And I'd gladly stand up. Next to you. And defend her. Here. Today. For there ain't no doubt, I love this land. Gawd bless the USA!""
Y'all know the tune. Drives Tebaggers, 1%, cops and other 'authority figures' crazy. Makes for great media clips. Love, Gma Spyder.
Other patriotic songs are good, too.
Having served in the USMC, I won't be faking that song. At that point linking arms is good tactics, as has been pointed out by others here, because nothing can be thrown by people whose arms are linked. Next seek legal redress if police authority is abused. The next choice is, do I want to live on my knees, as somebodies slave-in-fact, or ... ?
good.
You got it right! That's the stuff!
I am ashamed of the OWS movement. Why? Because they way they treat the earth they are using to stand on(sit/lay/sleep). I bet the grass is trampled and if rain came it would be a muddy mess. I bet they litter and don't have enough trash cans, I bet they have no trash collection services in the movement, nor do they have porto potties and a regular schedule to clean them. Of course the OWS are 'to good' to hire a proper garbage or porto company to come in and take care of things. So instead they are surrounded by filth. They have no security as can be seen in many video's and by the reports of the many crimes commited(theft, vandalism etc..) they have no clue how to be good citizens.
If these people had a clue what they were doing and wanted respect from the rest of us they would have the sense to hire a company that puts on big events, The group that put on Bonnaroo Festival, or Rothbury Festival actual knows how to put a crowd of 50K in an area and to keep it clean, safe and secure. There are so many things that need to be done to have a clean safe secure grouping of numerous humans, the OWS people have failed at even providing the most basic things regarding HEALTH,SANITATION, and SAFETY.
I would be terrified to take my young 10yr old daughter into this group. It is unsafe and dirty.
Of course they(OWS) would have to pay people for these services(instead they are just a bunch of LOOTERS), so since they expect people to just GIVE them everything they want and need, we won't see and health safety security or sanitation happening anytime soon.
They have a right to assemble, but (unlike what OWS believes) it is not anyone else's responsibility to make it comfortable. Maybe they will get an Adult in there to run things eventually.
Heck, I would do it, but since I expect to be paid for the work of my hands and mind they won't be calling me anytime soon.
Awesome work, guys! I've been stopping by Zuccotti on the weekends and it's such an amazing group. My one and only concern is the noise level. I know that we NEED to be heard, and deserve to be heard, but my poor parents (71 and 75 years old) who live near Zuccotti have been staying with family members because of the noise at night and early morning (drum circles maybe?). My dad is a retired cellist and my mother a retired school teacher. They are certainly part of the 99%, but are upset that the apartment that they worked so hard to buy is now too noisy for them to live in. I guess I should be happy that their hearing is still that good! So let's be heard! Let's fight! But let's also be respectful of the people who live in the area. They're not all part of the 1%. Much love!
Heard much about Iceland lately...? read below:
http://sacsis.org.za/site/article/728.1
Scott olsen and every one of you occupiers are traitors to this country and lazy individuals that believe this country owes you something. Only thing it owes you or me is the right to exist. You make your own way and dont ask for handouts from anyone.
Great comment. We should try to remember that this country owes them nothing when we're called to bailout another bank or asked to take a paycut to better line the pockets of whoever employs us. The only thing we owe them is a right to exist in whatever country those lazy traitors sold out our jobs to. I'd rather starve to death sleeping under a bridge than slave one day for a greedy corporation.
Do you guys delete posts from people who question OWS? just curious cuz I keep seeing the world TROLL in the comments sections where a post should be. Have never actually seen that before. Seems like kind of a First Ammendment thing for a pro-democracy movement, no?
I don't know if anything here gets deleted except by the individual user deleting their own messages - I'm sure there's some kind of admin running the site. Basically, for the past few hundred years (and beyond) there has been an endless stream of vitriolic partisan rhetoric that spews forth from the mouths of those who feel it is in their best interests to shut people down with toxic and provocative statements. Everyone can be guilty of it at some point, because these issues can be very emotional - but that is what they count on to try and get the behaviour they want out of you. The only way for any positive change to happen in this world is if there is a calm and rational attempt at sitting down face to face and proposing solutions to clearly defined problems. Much must be done before that can happen on a large scale. Internet comments are difficult to place value on, because they are mostly anonymous and people hide behind their anonymity and spew forth bile that they would never spew were they to be sitting in front of you. Therefore, those people are known across the internet as Trolls - those who try to start fights through emotional provocation. If you take the bait, you feed the troll. Best to ignore them. Those who can articulate viewpoints which may seem to be anti-OWS, but CAN ARTICULATE THEM WITHOUT RESORTING TO VITRIOLIC PARTISAN RHETORIC will most likely be responded to in a calm and fair manner.
Are you talking about the commenters or the OWS protesters? "an endless stream of vitriolic partisan rhetoric," "toxic and provocative statements"? The occupations themselves are meant to be provocative. Bank-sters, "Eat the rich," even the communist (left-handed) fist logo that many of the Occupy movements use (admittedly, not the fist logo at the top of this website). All are meant to be "toxic and provocative! "Hiding behind anonymity"? Kind of like those with "anonymous" masks or bandannas? Is occupying the DOE and using the "people's mic" to shout down the chancellor of the NYC schools what you call a "calm and rational attempt at sitting down face to face"? WE ARE JUST AS MUCH TROLLS OF OWS.ORG AS THE PROTESTERS ARE TROLLS OF OUR SOCIETY--or at least our public spaces.
As for the OWS.org tolerance of those with alternative views, I can speak first hand that not only do the admins/mods delete comments, they delete user IDs right out of existence.
Well, I was talking about some of the commenters here, though your viewpoints interest me. I believe the difference between the OWS as a movement and some prick trying to spread hatred under the guise of "making a point" here on online forums is pretty disparate. Trolls have no interest in carrying on a helpful dialogue leading to a greater mutual understanding, but only insults and misinformation in order to subvert. My comment about anonymity was in regards to the whole internet where trolling takes place and the attitude of those folks who feel free to be a dick just because nobody knows who they really are as opposed to people who support a movement and might get fired if their bosses saw them fighting for rights which they think might adversly affect their wallets somehow. As I said in my previous post, we all get emotionally upset over things and can act like Trolls if we deny ourselves a bit of self control, and I cannot deny or blame the OWSers for their righteous anger. I think if your views are outlined in a decent manner it will not be erased but become a part of a larger conversation which - by the very necessity of it own survival - must deny Trolls the satisfaction of being the negative jerks that they are.
Your "negative jerk" is my agitator.
Your "helpful dialogue" is my mob of negative jerks drowning out a public meeting with the "people's microphone" and using their children as pawns.
It's all relative. I thought you guys were more tolerant than this. I guess it's just easier to call someone a troll.
tol·er·ance [tol-er-uhns]
noun
a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b : the act of allowing something
Yes, you see - the way I see it, a peaceful protest is one that is child friendly. Children are our future, and if police are there to keep the peace, then there is no need to hide. Only if one side was planning a violent attack in the first place would there be any need to worry, and since that's not what they've stated they're there for then that is what is happening. Not using as shields - but being peaceful as promised.
I do not understand the logic of this. I am wholeheartedly a supporter of the OWS movement. But in MARCHING AGAINST TRAFFIC, and PUSHING PAST POLICE BARRICADES...it needs to be said. What are you THINKING??
OWS has been a largely nonviolent movement. For this, I commend you all. The instances of police brutality, in NY, in Oakland, in Chicago, everywhere, are truly reprehensible. However, nonviolence alone does not insure that your movement remains peaceful. In running AGAINST traffic, in the streets, by the thousands, you are creating a dangerous environment. You are posing a danger to yourselves and others by "taking back the streets". You are endangering cops who walked, rode and scrambled alongside the march, trying to ensure that civilians do not end up in front of moving vehicles. Marches which endanger the lives and safety of non-protestors cannot truly be called nonviolent.
In the video you post above, there are many clips of police brutality, of the NYPD beating, pushing, shoving, kicking, and forcing protestors to the ground. But at the same time, there are also clips of protestors forming body barriers, tightly enclosed circles around policemen attempting to make arrests. There are clips where policemen are the minority, outnumbered, overwhelmed, drawing batons simply because an angry, chanting crowd steps ever closer to their person- clips where I feared for the safety of the policeman rather than the protestors. There are clips of protestors, screaming at the top of their lungs, less than 6 INCHES AWAY from an officer's face-- that he was able to suppress any kneejerk reaction, stifle any attempt to create a more comfortable physical distance between himself and the protestor, is astounding.
OWS is a nonviolent movement. It is supposed to be peaceful. It is supposed to represent the rational, the communal, the egalitarian. But that is not what this video shows. This video shows a mob. An angry, loud mob. A mob of people who demonstrate total disregard for the safety of the NY'ers who were behind the wheel the night. A mob of people who are stretching and severely testing the limits of what peaceful civil disobedience looks like, by impeding the free movement of drivers, of law officers attempting to maintain order by confining the march to the sidewalks, who are inserting themselves in officers' physical space in an intimidating, aggressive manner, encircling police officers and actively attempting to interfere with their arrests.
THIS IS NOT WHAT PEACEFUL PROTEST LOOKS LIKE. Yes, you have successfully demonstrated that police brutality is rampant. But you have also demonstrated that OWS protestors are capable of producing and stoking highly inflammatory circumstances of chaos and social disorder, which, YES, puts THE WHOLE DAMN 100% IN PHYSICAL DANGER. This is not nonviolence.
You do not have the right to step in front of a car and expect you will not be hit. When a police officer tells you to STAY ON THE SIDEWALK, do you really think it's because they are opposing your right to march? Or is it because, as this video shows, you are blocking traffic and thereby endangering other protestors, regular civilians, NYC drivers, and cops alike?
You may be leaderless, OWS. But if you truly value consensus, demoncracy, and peaceful and nonviolent protest, you need to rethink your demonstration tactics. You need to review the principles of Kingian civil disobedience. Because this is NOT. what that looks like.
I agree that this sort of thing should NOT be front and center, that is stupid. You're taking a step backwards from direct progress, to the street action stuff. But we need to push back wherever we can and I respect a variety of tactics. Moral matters too. If this helps moral, yes I would like to know what e.g. conservatives think before approving it as they tend to be a bit out of the loop and might not get it and we have to be above all things practical, but there is nothing truly wrong with it.
very well put.
They want us to start fighting back!!! Thats why they will continue to provoke violence. http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/
This is awesome. I hope the main message remains political though. I also hope the police will stop inciting violence. Too much violence will discourage folks from coming out who aren't eager to be arrested. I know this is exactly why they are using these tactics though.
Exactly. I do think we have to be careful not to let what happened in Oakland happen again, though, where protestors were throwing bottles and shit at cops BEFORE the police used tear gas. That's exactly what they want us to do so we have to maintain our peacefulness. We don't want videos like this one floating around!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlHiNEZ1wA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
I have supported the movement since the start. Wellsfargo foreclosed on my home w/o giving me an opportunity to restructure my mortgage. My wife and I were kicked out of our home of 4 years. So my wife and I are proud members of the 99%. But when we as peaceful movement behave the way we behaved yesterday, its a black eye for all the movement. We looked like a bunch of hoodlums just trying to incite the police officers to come after us and thats exactly what the 1% want for us to behave like hoodlums. That gives the 1% a reason to say we're the problem and that we're only about disturbing the peace. Some how,some way we have to become more organized.
Like many on this thread you have suffered at the hands of a rigged financial system and a democracy that has been hijacked by monied interests. The occupy movement is a non-violent direct action movement that often uses civil disobedience to shine a light on injustice.
From occupations of parks to un-permited marches, this movement is pushing against a system that has allowed for mass injustice and caused great suffering. The march last night was chaotic, but it was peaceful. It was an emotional reaction to the violence that occurred by the police in oakland.
did you miss any payments?
Exactly what behaviour makes you say that? As far as I was they were non-violent. Chanting aggressively is not violent, nor is it being a hoodlum. These rumors of bottle throwing I have not seen substantiated anywhere.
Good for you for calling out the thugs in the movement. I always criticized the Tea Party for not pulling up the racists elements of their protests. The occupy movement means to do the same for the vandals and thugs that aggravated things in Oakland.
Whoever trusts in his riches will fall, but the righteous will flourish like a green leaf (Proverbs 11:28)
God bless and protect you ALL! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!
I've NEVER been so proud to be an American (f- that! a HUMAN)!!! We will FLOURISH! We WILL change the world.
I don't care for all this running stuff. I say we keep the nonviolent demeanor.
Sorry for the typos in my earlier reply, and I apologize that I didn't proofread. I meant to write that the big Wall Street law firm I worked at for over 23 years hired young secretaries a year and a half earlier to replace the older secretaries, including me, that it supposedly had to "lay off" in 2008--BEFORE the recession. This wealthy, wealthy law firm even dumped three older women close to 60 who had recently had cancer in its supposed "layoff." (And this was a real insurance/healthcare issue, because expensive diseases like cancer raise the company's insurance costs.)
The 1%, including the lawyers I worked for, are extremely sophisticated and powerful. We absolutely, absolutely cannot play into their hands by allowing them to make us look like the aggressors. We have to convey that we can run society better than they can. The capitalists have advertising and the media, with their ability to suppress and distort the news, so it's even more important we don't allow them to misrepresent us. They'll do everything they can to try to isolate us. We have to use psychology better than they do.
We just can't make it too risky for millions of people--the 99%--to join OWS and take part in actions, especially when thousands and thousands of these targeted firings of older and other vulnerable workers are going on. Especially in industries, like law firms, where there aren't unions to offer even minimal job protection. It was hard enough to prove discrimination before the recession, but it's much, much more difficult to fight discrimination now that companies can use the economy as an excuse.
Again, some groups in the anti-Vietnam war movement accused us of being sell-outs, reformists, traitors to the revolution, etc. because we continued to call for legal, peaceful, mass mobilizations in the streets.
We also called for the army to oppose the war, and defended any GIs who did and got retaliated against. We set up defense committees and used defensive formulations: the GIs were just exercising their constitutional right to speak, to tell the truth. And the truth is the one thing that the rulers cannot allow. Our message was, we don't even ask you to agree with our political positions, just to defend our right to speak out.
I remember Peter Camejo, a Socialist Workers Party leader who later ran on a ticket with Ralph Nader, saying, people remember Nazi Germany, they remember concentration camps. People believe in preserving our rights here.
Somewhere in the Pentagon Papers it describes where somebody in Nixon's administration looked out the window at the White House at one of the biggest anti-war mobilizations of the time, and said it looked like the Russian Revolution. They claimed Nixon was inside watching football and didn't pay any attention. They sure paid attention, but didn't want us to know how effective our mass movement--of MILLIONS--was becoming.
Thanks again for the most important movement in the US in a generation.
Again another very well put statement.
Thanks so much.
Yeah I totally agree that we have to show that we are the people who make this country great, and actually run it. That we can run society better with them not in power.
Absolutely right on! It's the only way that broad masses of people can join the movement, because people with jobs, families, kids CANNOT risk losing their jobs. We went through this in the antiwar movement, where we had to fend of people who don't understand that our power is in NUMBERS--the ruling class has the money, but we need the people to turn out en masse (Lenin called these well-intentioned but very incorrect people ultraleftists, in his pamphlet entitled Left Wing Communism, An Infantile Disorder).
We learned later that the people who advocated running crazy in the streets, throwing bombs at buildings, were frequently FBI agents-provacateurs, sent to infiltrate the movement and keep it isolated. I can see a reason for civil disobedience by those who can afford to get arrested, but in this economy especially, people can't take the chance of losing their jobs. I know, I was "laid off" at 60 BEFORE the recession when a big WALL STREET law firm hired young secretaries a year and a half later and then claimed it didn't need the older, long-term ones. Bosses don't need any excuse to get rid of workers, and we can't give them one!
Also, it's very, very important to always use what's called a defensive formulation, to never, never appear to be the aggressor. The goal is to isolate the ruling class, which OWS has done beautifully in choosing the slogan "We are the 99% (probably more like 99.9%)--it isolates the rulers. The image we have to portray is always, we were 't doing anything aggressive, we were just defending ourselves from aggression--defending our right to speak, to organize, to organize. Everyone can identify with that, but we lose support if we allow ourselve to be characterized as the violent ones. Violence is throwing someone out of a job, out of their home, police brutality--we cannot allow those who perpetrate it to characterize us as violent.
Prayers and thoughts of Scott for his complete recovery, and thanks for everything you're all doing.
Very well said.
Appreciate your thoughtful response. You sound like one of my close friends. I met Peter C. about three times when he visited Salt Lake. A wonderful comrade, dearly missed. Vive l'occupation. Never, never give up!
Yes, we need more people like this in the movement, and to listen to them more closely. The young people can be hotheads it is true. We need to follow the lead that has been set out with the camps themselves; build a society in miniature, which we can also use to organize ourselves and get things done in the meantime.
Yes. Like Occupy the Boardroom, ways must be thought of to get the silent majority involved without them losing their jobs. It is right to stand up and be brave and make a statement, but not everyone is willing to do that, even though they'd be out there if they could. It totally sucks that fearful pussy little money lenders have to hire thugs to intimidate and ultimately disrupt a revolution that is starting to scare the stuffing out of them, and it sucks that being non-violent means that sometimes the stupid thugs-in-blue will hurt someone and it's hard not to retaliate, but mark my words THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT IN ORDER TO SHUT YOU DOWN. STAY STRONG! Scott Olsen is the real hero - Scott Olsen is our rallying cry - WE ARE ALL SCOTT OLSEN - an injury to one is an injury to ALL!!!
Thanks, MadProfit, and it's amazing that huge numbers of people in the country already support us--in spite of media distortions and blackouts. There's a video I just saw where a guy (Boots, I'm sorry, I don't remember his full name) goes around OCW in NYC trying to hand out bongs and Che Guevara wrapping papers for marijuana, and a savvy OWS young kid confronts him on how he's attempting to smear the movement--to get some footage that Fox News can edit into a short clip to make it appear occupiers are using drugs.
I feel exactly the same about Scott Olsen.
Nothing should amaze you. The people who are in power will do all in their power to keep it. And they are good at it.
Thanks for your comment, and I completely agree--look at what they've doing even now in attempting to shut down the OWS encampments.
Since when is running violent? Quick, arrest the track club!
There is no excuse for police brutality, but i think it is important to keep in mind that cops mostly are honest hard working people who will get fired if they do not do as they are told. our frustrations should be directed foremost at those further up in the hierarchy that give orders to infer with and disperse peaceful protests and thus directly inhibit first amendment rights. The way organized police brutality and overreactions 'work' is to create fear, and the 'chilling effect' that crackdowns have indirectly on freedom of speech is indeed scary.
Yes, and those cops who used potentially deadly force in a situation that did not warrent it in any stretch, ought to be fired.
Exactly. The line level cop is just a poor sap whose fate is not his own. Most likely, a family man who needs his job as much as anyone else.
we need to find a way for the cops that DON'T want to arrest protesters not to get fired. My heart is with the protesters but I am not to blind to see their aggression and the confrontational nature of their anger. i can see from the perspective of the cops that are told to break up an area and have to face that crowd. we need to find a way for protesters not seem like angry mobs while standing their ground. and again, we need to find a legal out for cops that want to do their jobs elsewhere than at occupy demonstrations. any ideas?
Cops have to uphold the law. WE need them to. We can't have those who sympathize with OWS leaving their posts or even requesting other assignments. This is a necessary conflict and these are the guys we NEED standing on the other side of that line. If our sympathizers step down or are re-assigned, we'll be left facing... nothing but itchy trigger fingers. @Cops: do your job with the absolute minimum of aggression. Document instances of law breaking on BOTH SIDES and hold one another accountable. WE'RE COUNTING ON YOU TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS! @Marchers: do your job with the absolute minimum of law breaking and aggression. We are here to build not destroy. They put up a barrier, peacefully dismantle it and set it aside. If they use weapons, retreat. Meet violence with passive resistance. If they declare your assembly unlawful, either leave and come back tomorrow or sit down and be prepared to be arrested. Give those who oppose our ideals NO AMMUNITION to use in their media. If there really are provocateurs among you, simply ignore them when they try to incite you. They are going to spread lies about you. IGNORE THOSE TOO! We have the resources to expose that, give it time. And as always, document document document. WE'RE COUNTING ON YOU TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS!
yes, of course. I had the best conversation with my friend who is a San Diego police officer. His idea: All protesters should wear this shirt. On the back: name blood type_ contact phone#__ On the front : "I am protesting peacefully. I will not resist arrest. But I will be back." He said this would be smart and effective. I agree. Pass it on if you like it.
I agree with you Annie, this issue concerns all of us, as well. Police take orders from the 1% like the rest of us or they will get fired, too. This issue can use some World Class Brain-Storming and New Territory Thinking. I am sorry to say, " I got nothin." It is a very difficult problem. Fair-ness.
One thing that helps with this is to follow your way up the hierarchy. Those are the pressure points, and we an actually complain to them in person at their office or homes, too. And no there is nothing wrong with protesting what they are doing at their homes; as if what they are doing does not affect us in our own homes!
Thank you for your comments, and I don't know the answer either. When I was an activist in the 70's, the line was that cops were the arm of the ruling class, and responsible for protecting private (i.e., capitalist, not individual, personal) property. Historically their role has been to break strikes and union organizing, and crack down on every progressive movement.
I wonder about this question. In September, I was at a teachers union rally in NYC against state budget cuts, where the protestors applauded some of the police who were assigned to the demonstration. Some demonstrators were chanting to the cops to join us, pointing out that their jobs, too, were being cut. During the rally, some in the crowd demanded an end to reductions in the police force when speakers called out for an end to budget cuts against teachers. Many of the cops, a number of whom were from minorities, seemed pretty sympathetic to the demonstrators.
The police in NYC don't make high salaries, either, I was shocked when I found out they make under $30,000--maybe that's a starting salary--for a very dangerous job. So I don't see that they have that much of a vested interest in the current system--unlike in some countries where there's a whole officer class that's very separate from the oppressed.
But then there are examples of revolutions where the leaders naively didn't dismantle the existing state apparatus and left the former army and police intact. Within a short time, the army reorganized to smash the revolution, and brutal repression ensured. (Marx and Engels I believe defined the state as bodies of armed men whose job was to protect private property) This happened in Chile in the 1970's. Please forgive my awful ignorance for not keeping up with the news, but didn't the military in Egypt--which the revolution thought was on their side--take over after Mubarek was ousted?
On the other hand, there are times in history when the army has gone over to the revolution. I would really like some revolutionary socialist guidance on this.
I also remember something else from when I was an activist, a quote from one of the historic revolutionaries who said that you had to win over not just the people but had to convince the ruling class itself that their system was bankrupt. That absolutely does not mean to trust or rely in them, because they'll never give up without a revolution, but to disarm them psychologically and intellectually.
Thank you, everybody.
If the cops keep brutalizing the citizens, things WILL get ugly.
We have to prepare ourselves for much police brutality. Its a natural reaction of the finacial elite who are getting more and more scared of the Occupy movement. Again, the police is a tool of the business-run state to try to crush the ones who want to take back from the wealthy what has been stolen thru bailouts, exploitation and speculation at the stock exchange. The elites are starting to feel threatened, they want to keep all that they have stolen, so naturally they want to stop #occupy movements with police force. The finacial elite will however fail. The people are more powerful than private tyranny and its servants.
Yes, you are right. I love how the protesters in NYC rebelled against police orders and filled the streets and threw away orange nets and went past barricades. They kept the peace but showed that they (we) won't allow this abuse of power and authority any longer. This was like a warning of things to come if the police keep going as they are and the 1% keep using the system to abuse the citizens.
My son is on the front lines in OccupyWallStreet. I am afraid for him and also very proud of him! Occupy!
It is Awsome!
We also have to remember that this occupy movement that is growing domestic in the US, but also around the world, is in a growing phase right now. We have to think in long term perspective. Serious changes arn´t gonna come over night, were not gonna get freedom and democracy in a few weeks, this is going to be a long hard struggle. Like I´ve said from day one: This is the beginning of something huge! First we have to GROW: protest make ourselves heard, convince, getting people to join, search for facts, enlighten then, when were big enough we can start changing the world :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZbNT62aprM
Absolutely, we HAVE to be in this for the long haul. Even if wall street and every single other occupation was wiped out due to martial law, we have to still be here, discussing, planning, doing, resisting attempts to stop us from doing those things.
I will stop engaging and moving this movement forwards when I am no longer suffering from what the 1% have done and are doing, and will not suffer again from it. And preferably no one else is either. Period, and everyone else should too. This is an issue that affects all our lives and futures very deeply, you don't have to be some sort of zealot to persist here, you just have to be sensible!
Much love to our brothers and sisters in Egypt! And Tunisia! And Syria! They have faced and are facing live bullets. The Oakland Police or whoever they were(they called out police from all over) gave us a taste of what folks are facing in the Middle East. Stop Police Brutality!
[Deleted]
Dude, lead is toxic, you should get that taken out.
amazing but scar tissue around the lead has protected me from the poison.
indeed! much love and peace always from the isle o man x x x
I support the OWS movement whole heartedly, however, I saw a young lady from the Oakland movement on TV, and she told a national cable news station that the protesters were throwing rocks and bottles at the police. Even if this were an isolated incident or just a few, the police will respond to physical abuse, what did those throwing things expect?
Evidence, please. The cops have cameras too, and plenty of them, and nice ones, we can see them all the time in the videos that we take. If they had evidence you can bet your ass they would post it to discredit the protesters.
And ultimately we should really be assuming, not suspecting, that is the police are willing to engage in crimes like this, they are also willing to plant people in the crowd to give them an (totally superficial even so, they are wearing armor after all, it's not like a bottle would even hurt) excuse to do what they wanted to do anyway. Or just make protesters look bad.
In the UK the cops are always getting stuff thrown at them, paint, rocks, everything in protests, check out the london riots. And yet the cops there do not use chemical weapons except in real emergencies, even when it gets intense, they are much more reasonable and civilized. And no one gets killed as a result!
http://youtu.be/eHlHiNEZ1wA
Not evidence of the rocks and bottles, but I also haven't seen any unedited video come out. Maybe someone at the Oakland encampment would be willing to release/post their unedited video from the front line that night?
very true and believe it their are police in the crowds,
If that is true about "some protesters throwing rocks and bottles at the police", it was EXTREMELY STUPID of those protesters and they should be banned from Occupy Oakland for life. Some of them were no doubt "AGENTS PROVOCATEURS" planted by the CIA.
Throwing rocks and bottles is EXACTLY what the 1% hope we will do, so as to justify a police crackdown and the imposition of MARTIAL LAW"
Can anyone else smell a false flag brewing?
Can anyone else smell a false flag brewing?
Like 9/11?
Not all cops forget they are only as strong as those who support them.
Hey guys check out this exclusive interview I just came across from OCCUPY GAINESVILLE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLS0qnv5N38
It's sad when your positions are so perverted and impossible to defend, violence, vandalism and chaos is the only alternative. To confirm your egregious proclivity, instead of exhibiting integrity, you cowardly hide behind the skirts of ‘fairness’ ‘equality’ ‘oneness’ and ‘victims wanting justness’. It funny how you think nobody knows of this spineless strategy. Predictably, you deploy antagonistic and dastardly violence provoking antics just like the chickenschits who wrote your sacred scripts did. When the violence being provoked takes place it is then distorted, exaggerated and exploited. Simply cowardly vile chicanery. Do you have any shame?
Scott Olsen, the "decorated vet", Occupy worships as their symbol of motivation is the creator of the website "I Hate The Marine Corp". Occupy has finally found their leader; A treasonous, jew hating drug addict that has been smearing the USMC since the day he was booted. His skull was never fractured. He was never in critical condition. No brain swelling. Here is a picture of him texting away.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/olsen-texting-2-e1320145543345.jpg
That is impressive for someone with all those injuries.
"We are all Scott Olsen" Yes indeed you are ... yes indeed
http://occupywallst.org/forum/ihatethemarinecorps/
A list of talking points to support OWS:
http://knockknockrevolution.tumblr.com/flyers help us convert non-occupiers to occupiers! tell your friends and families!
End the corruption by changing the corrupt system!
Video of 10/26:
http://youtu.be/0eRuVXLGR7U
Those cops are dangerous when scared and they were scared.
Who are the guys in business suits? I have seen them repeatedly pushing and assisting police in violence against the protestors? Are they part of the police force or just business men who feel inclined to take their anger out on innocent civilians who disagree with their economic ideas?
I think the Occupy movement has a lot of positive intentions and I think it could really bring about positive change to our country or world, but a lot of people need to reconsider their ways of protesting.
Specifically, I'm talking about marching in the streets. I think these marches should stay in legal pedestrian zones, such as sidewalks and parks. I realize that this movement (for many, if not most, of the people involved) is about civil disobedience, which can mean disobeying certain laws that our country currently enforces. However, it doesn't appear to me that the Occupy movement has a fundamental problem with our current pedestrian/traffic laws. And, I myself don't see any real problems with following the current pedestrian laws. So (to the many people who are marching in the streets), why disobey it?
I realize that people want to gain attention to this cause (and yes, obstructing traffic is certainly a guaranteed way to gain that attention) . But, we could easily gain attention from keeping these protests on the sidewalks and in the parks. Cars and passer-by's will still see the protests.
This movement has potential to be something truly big, and it would be a shame to see it slowed down or broken up by arrests caused by something as petty as J-walking or traffic violations. Especially at this stage of the Occupy protests, everyone involved should be extra cautious and conscious of how they handle themselves and what laws their obeying or disobeying. In many of these cities where the protests are taking place, police could (likely) easily arrest everyone who had been in the streets for J-walking. They may not be in jail for long, but still, what's the point? What is that accomplishing? It will likely just give police and other people (who may potentially join this cause one day) more grief towards us, thus increasing the potential of police brutality on the protesters.
If marchers stay on sidewalks, parks, and other places legally permitted for pedestrians; if marchers wait for crosswalk signals when crossing streets; if marchers stays off of private property, the Occupy movement will have the legal upperhand. As long as people are not obstructing traffic or littering or destroying anything public property (or disobeying other laws), the marches will be 100% legal and any arrests on the protesters will truly be illegal under our current legal system.
The movement may even receive less police resistance and hostility, and instead gain more people (police/passer-by's) involved in the protests.
Who knows what circumstances may arise during the protests in the future as this movement grows? Maybe there will be fair reason to obstruct traffic later on. But for now, I think everyone should follow simple (and, in my opinion, fair) laws, and keep the protests in legal pedestrian areas. Or apply for/request permits for parades/marches from town governments if you want to keep it in the streets.
Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to try and cover all points of my feelings on this subject. It may seem like a unimportant detail in the spectrum of everything that's been happing within the Occupy protests, but I feel it's important and could make or break the movement.
I think the Occupy movement has a lot of positive intentions and I think it could really bring about positive change to our country or world, but a lot of people need to reconsider their ways of protesting.
Specifically, I'm talking about marching in the streets. I think these marches should stay in legal pedestrian zones, such as sidewalks and parks. I realize that this movement (for many, if not most, of the people involved) is about civil disobedience, which can mean disobeying certain laws that our country currently enforces. However, it doesn't appear to me that the Occupy movement has a fundamental problem with our current pedestrian/traffic laws. And, I myself don't see any real problems with following the current pedestrian laws. So (to the many people who are marching in the streets), why disobey it?
I realize that people want to gain attention to this cause (and yes, obstructing traffic is certainly a guaranteed way to gain that attention) . But, we could easily gain attention from keeping these protests on the sidewalks and in the parks. Cars and passer-by's will still see the protests.
This movement has potential to be something truly big, and it would be a shame to see it slowed down or broken up by arrests caused by something as petty as J-walking or traffic violations. Especially at this stage of the Occupy protests, everyone involved should be extra cautious and conscious of how they handle themselves and what laws their obeying or disobeying. In many of these cities where the protests are taking place, police could (likely) easily arrest everyone who had been in the streets for J-walking. They may not be in jail for long, but still, what's the point? What is that accomplishing? It will likely just give police and other people (who may potentially join this cause one day) more grief towards us, thus increasing the potential of police brutality on the protesters.
If marchers stay on sidewalks, parks, and other places legally permitted for pedestrians; if marchers wait for crosswalk signals when crossing streets; if marchers stays off of private property, the Occupy movement will have the legal upperhand. As long as people are not obstructing traffic or littering or destroying anything public property (or disobeying other laws), the marches will be 100% legal and any arrests on the protesters will truly be illegal under our current legal system.
The movement may even receive less police resistance and hostility, and instead gain more people (police/passer-by's) involved in the protests.
Who knows what circumstances may arise during the protests in the future as this movement grows? Maybe there will be fair reason to obstruct traffic later on. But for now, I think everyone should follow simple (and, in my opinion, fair) laws, and keep the protests in legal pedestrian areas. Or apply for/request permits for parades/marches from town governments if you want to keep it in the streets.
Sorry this was so long, but I wanted to try and cover all points of my feelings on this subject. It may seem like a unimportant detail in the spectrum of everything that's been happing within the Occupy protests, but I feel it's important and could make or break the movement.
Abolish OR audit the Federal Reserve by petitioning the Obama Administration. Here is the official petition at Whitehouse.gov: wh.gov/bC0. Be American, love democracy!
Lets use technology to expose the corruption: http://rickdeveloper.tumblr.com/post/12153087705/can-custom-web-apps-help-occupy-wall-street-occupy
Morons.
Video from 10/26: http://youtu.be/i63jVkw_DIs
Start Legal Defense Fund to bring suit against police excessive force. I don't know how to do it, but I got a hundred bucks for seed.
Police thuggery endorsed by the 'Corporate Lords of Wall Street' is just one more example of the 'too big to fail' attempts to suppress the rest of the 99% of America. Let me remind that 1%, that the 99% is America, and we will not be silenced with whatever weaponry you've elected to use against us. The shooting with 'rubber bullets', one which critically wounded a young Iraq Veteran, Mr. Olsen, is a horrific and obvious ploy, endorsed by the top 1%, to suppress and should be deemed as nothing less than an attempt at OPPRESSION of we; the people. We are seeing police thuggery employed across the nation with the blessing of mayors and the 'ever so silent' governors. Rock on 99%'ers!!!! Bless you Scott Olsen and our prayers are with you.
The brutal attack on a veteran in Oakland and all of the other incidents of police violence towards the Occupy Wall Street movements across the country proves that the police are not part of the 99%. The police are the hired thugs of the 1%. It is important not to have illusions in the police. It is also important to be very cautious with the police because the police might be looking for excuses to beat up on protesters. The same cops that attack demonstrators also attack picket lines of workers and shoot minority youth in the back.
Time to Occupy the BOE Board of $Election and the CPD (Commission on Presidentail Debate - they are private and $ecret) BOE FL 7, 32 BROADWAY NEW YORK, NY 10004-1662
The bank fraud OWS doesn't understand
All the bank officers created fees when they knowingly made mortgages from the depositors money to a borrower they knew could never pay the adjusted payment. Every teaser loan was a simple fraud.
The banks induced (by their advertisements) suckers to take money with teaser payments to get fees. That's a bank fraud under the law. All the bank officers paid bribes to every congress person to prevent being charged for fraud.
That political campaign would win the 2012 election for 3rd party candidates. Republicans and Democrats will never arrest themselves for taking the bribes. OWS fails to understand this fact.
i don't understand. why american police all over the country going into parks shooting its own people? where is the enemy? is that what american police do? going into parks and shooting people? can you imagine that? all the police going into parks shooting people? can you picturize that?
Karl Denninger is with you:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196707
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/%3F-older-posts-did-oakland-police-intentionally-shoot-marine-vet-scott-olsen-head
Did Oakland Police Intentionally Shoot Marine Vet Scott Olsen In the Head?
Unwinnable Wars---Trillions Banks ----------------Trillions Foreign Aid ----------Billions Home Owners ------ 0 Seniors ---------------0 Students -------------0 What Is It You Don't Get?
Unwinnable Wars---Trillions Banks ----------------Trillions Foreign Aid ----------Billions Home Owners ------ 0 Seniors ---------------0 Students -------------0 What Is It You Don't Get?
Unwinnable Wars---Trillions Banks ----------------Trillions Foreign Aid ----------Billions Home Owners ------ 0 Seniors ---------------0 Students -------------0 What Is It You Don't Get?
Unwinnable Wars---Trillions Banks ----------------Trillions Foreign Aid ----------Billions Home Owners ------ 0 Seniors ---------------0 Students -------------0 What Is It You Don't Get?
very interesting- corporations should be taxed according to damage they make to our ecosystem, and many more good staff; http://humansphere.org/omniusmanifesto
I'm with Occupy Oakland; please spread the word about Occupy Oakland's General Strike & Mass Day of Action, Nov 2. Occupy SF sent a rep today to our GA and is standing in solidarity by bringing Occupy SF to Oakland Nov 2 where we will set it off! For more: http://www.occupyoakland.org/2011/10/general-strike-mass-day-of-action
The revolution is on: WE ALL are the revolution. Oakland is New York!
straight up
These cops are no better than Mubarak's thugs. How do they live with themselves?
Will ows stand in solidarity with Oakland and propose to the G.A. that a General Strike to take place on Nov.2, 2011?
@BrianPritchard:
You have that backwards. The corporations squeezed out independent stores, and made it impossible to compete. No one asked for the first, or 199th, WalMart; they just built them and stocked them. As Main St's died, people had little other choices,
For example, I always try to use family pharmacies whenever possible. They're a dying breed, between the mountains of insurance paperwok, and trying to compete with low prices from WalMart - who buys their drugs from India, btw - the same thing Bush said you shouldn't do.
Our last local pharmacy just went under two weeks ago. Sad. We are left with WalGreens, WalMart (which I will not go in even under court order), & chain grocery stores.
This is not the consumers fault. We fought for five years to keep a super WalMart out of this area; they just built it.
The corporations have the money to override and bully their way in, and our local politicians screw us over...just as our federal ones do.
Enough. Occupy.
Article on the Nov 2nd Strike
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196636
Have ya lived in Oakland?
Have ya lived in Oakland?
Are you fools still at it?
HooRAH Marine, HooooRAH
Instead of taking away generators, they should be providing them. Instead of complaining about sanitation, they should provide portable toilets.
Remember Tiananmen Square .We are being treated as the enemy.
Please check your facts, the protesters had stopped communicating with the city weeks ago, technically they were protesting illegally and when ask to be removed.Some of them started throwing bottles and rocks and fireworks at police. I am not saying the deserve what they got, but please don't leave out the part where the protesters where being in my opinion a little stupid throwing rocks and bottles at cops and refusing to leave because you don't have a job. I'm sorry but just cause your protesting does not mean you get to break the law and yes they were protesting illegally. sorry i know every one wants to leave out the facts and make this a simple police state story but its not. if you want to protest protest but you have to follow the rules especially in Oakland. Do you guys have any idea what happens in Oakland when your not around, yea check your facts oaklands not thew place you really want to be doing stupid things. So go back to sleep people this does not mean all our right are begin taken away it just means if your going to protest in Oakland you better mind your p's and q's Oh and if your going to protest make sure you don't have people amongst you that like to throw things at cops. So calm down we don't live in a police state this is a single instance of stupid police reacting to stupid protesters that don't understand the rules and laws of protesting. In fact I think everyone should for their own personal safety check out their local laws and really make sure they understand how things really work instead what your buddy told you who thinks he now them works. You break it you may have to pay the consequences no matter how good your cause is.
It suck what happen but don't forget it could have been avoided if the protesters had not been acting the way they were and I'm sorry if your an adult and you still don't see how this could have been avoid by both sides, that both sides made mistakes then you need to step back and reevaluate what it really is your getting out of all this.
And in my opinion if your trying to leave out key facts like this then it's you who is promoting violence cause people are getting the wrong impression and are getting made about something that they think is a rights act, when really it's just a stupid accident that could have been avoided by both sides 100%
I cannot find any proof that the rock and bottle throwers were legitimate supporters of the OWS movement, and I would suspect by their behaviour that they were not. The mayor of Oakland has now apologised, said they'll retract such heavy police presences, and that she supports the movement, so the point is belaboured here.
They are Us. We are Them. This is the Way. this is the way.
They are Us. We are Them. This is the Way. this is the way.
We need to work toward getting the police over on our side. There is no telling how long that could take, but the point between rage and serenity exists for us all... http://occupywallstreetnow.wordpress.com/
We're all taught that we are protected by our first amendment right and have the ability to protest. However, if anyone has cared to read the penal code of California section 407, this is what it states: " Whenever two or more persons assemble together to do an unlawful act, or do a lawful act in a violent, boisterous, or tumultuous manner, such assembly is an unlawful assembly." This totally goes against what we're taught is in place to protect us. This means that you and I, standing on a street corner engaged in an argument is in fact in violation of the law. What are we supposed to do when peaceful protest on our behalf is subject to police brutality? This is why, I, a 17 year old high school student, stand in solidarity with the streets. This is my future this government is fucking with...just saying...
We have to keep doing stuff!! Never give up, never surrender. We can't give into the nothing that we stand for!!Rise up my weirdos and whack jobs. We most occupy everything that we think is different then us. I think we should try to occupy fun places like roller coasters and ice cream shops. Sometimes when it is warm we should occupy water parks and beaches. Lets march to places and stuff. Lets never stop marching to places in stuff. Long live weird stuff!!!
I'm so glad I am not American, Some of you fuckers on here are proper nasty little shits. You can call the protestors all the names under the sun because everyone of you are wrong on so many levels.
It just makes me laugh at you for being the blind idiots that you are for lapping everything up they tell you on Fox News etc.
I only hope that when you have no job, no food and no house, and you are contemplating actually eating your own children, all because the dollar has completely collapsed, that the protestors walk past you as you desperatley beg for help and forgiveness for being such a cunt, I hope they laugh in your face. I would personally laugh at you then take a big shit on you too.
I'm so glad I am not American, Some of you fuckers on here are proper nasty little shits. You can call the protestors all the names under the sun because everyone of you are wrong on so many levels.
It just makes me laugh at you for being the blind idiots that you are for lapping everything up they tell you on Fox News etc.
I only hope that when you have no job, no food and no house, and you are contemplating actually eating your own children, all because the dollar has completely collapsed, that the protestors walk past you as you desperatley beg for help and forgiveness for being such a cunt, I hope they laugh in your face. I would personally laugh at you then take a big shit on you too.
You people are nothing more than a motley group of socio-maladjusted youth who most likely where losers in high school (assuming you went) and now have found a group of like minded morons who subconsciously project that anger from being bullied onto the people who work hard everyday, and are trying to make a living, instead of being jerks who complain about the greatest economy in the world. If you don't like it, go to Somalia, or the Sudan and see just how your "right to protest" would be honored. No, you are nothing more than angry youth who are pathetic losers and your movement will fail, soon enough. Wait until December when the wind blows and the snow comes and it's 9 degrees...we'll see who'll be there then.
Troll.
Footage of Scott Olsen being shot by Police at Occupy Oakland(2:26): http://vimeo.com/31187119
Attention Officers: Did you forget you swore an oath to uphold the Constitution for the united States of America? Remember your oath, to protect and to serve the people. To protect us from criminals. We are the people, your brothers, your sisters, your sons, your daughters. Remember your oath to protect and to serve!
Why do you call yourselves "Peace Officers" when you instigate violence against the people? People who are standing in unity for a better future for our Country? For your future! For the future of your sons, your daughters. Peace officers, yet you are creating a force to stop We The People from expressing our First Amendment rights!
If I was your son, if I was your daughter, would you push me into a wall? Would you punch me in the face? Would you hit me with your baton?
If I were your son, your daughter, standing for liberty against criminals who have committed crimes at high levels of banks and our government, would you throw me down on the ground, and put your knee in my back, scraping my face on a cement sidewalk, a dirty street, while you handcuff me for express my feelings, my belief?
You are public servants. You are peace officers. You swore an oath to protect and to serve. When did you forget the oath you swore to uphold?
Dear officers: You need to wake up and realize we are all one! Once you wake up and realize the truth, and support us, you too will become part of We The People, taking back our country, and the first step, to those who have stolen Billions from the people, from our future, the future of our sons, our daughters, our great grandchildren, the first step to taking our country back and stopping these criminal elite from further destruction and criminals acts ever again.
Join us! Remember your oath! Remember your Oath! Remember Your Oath!!!!
The problem, my delusional and self-important little friend, is that you are NOT "the people". You are a self-appointed and self-indulgent little clique who believe yourselves entitled to trample on "the people" as if they were so much dirt beneath your holier-than-thou feet, while simultaneously stealing their rights.
What am I talking about? Simple: when you block traffic on the streets, with your gleefully sophomoric stunts of standing in the street or running in the roadway against the flow of vehicle movement, you are not excerising your rights as "the people", but are instead fighting to keep "the people" from excercising their genuine rights to use those streets for their designed purpose.
What gives a group that cannot claim to represent the expressed will of the majority of New Yorkers the right to tie up traffic for no more purpose than to have a public hissy fit? Are the people in the cars and buses that are trying to move along those streets not "the people" as well? Not to you they aren't -- to you they are merely objects and commodities for your use, and you rejoice in the fact that you inconvenience them. You are happy a working mother may be delayed getting home to take care of her children after putting in a long, hard day of poorly paid work. You are delighted that a bus with elderly passengers on their way to or from the doctor's office is delayed. You think it wonderful that ordinary men and women trying to conduct their businesses cannot drive unhindered from point A to point B without difficulty that you cause. And why is that? Why, because those aren't really "the people". They lost that designation when you stole it from them, and now they are just so many tools for you to use as you see fit. Why, they should be happy and honored that you choose to force them to conform to your little minority will, -- and if they have any objections, to heck with them, they're stupid and inferior lumpen, and don't deserve further consideration, right?
Sorry, but when you chant "Whose streets? Our streets!", you are lying -- those are not your own little personal streets, but instead are streets that belong to everybody. And if there are thousands of people trying to drive on them in the other way to your intentional obstruction, it should be pretty obvious to even the most self-exalted that you are NOT, in fact, everybody...
Wow...! Nothing more than a "public hissy fit?" Inconvenience the people in their cars and busses? You really don't get it at all. This is about $780 billion dollar bailout to the people who created the financial problem in the first place. This about crime that has been going on at high levels of the financial district for many years, and no one is ever held accountable.
Note that your use of durogatory language against people who are taking a stand, because politicians won't, achieves nothing. Politicians who vote because they were paid huge money by representatives of corporations are part of the problem as well.
"Conform to your little minority will,?" Have you seen what's going on with this movement, unified with thousands and thousands of people around the world. For every person who is willing to join a march, sleep on the ground in the cold, there are at least 100 who agree with them, but for what ever reason have not physically joined the crowd yet. But it continues to grow, dispute police brutality, which your comments totally ignore.
Sure the streets belong to everyone but how can people march, to express their frustration with what's going on in the world, if they don't march on a street? Do you want them to march out in the woods somewhere so they won't block traffic? Now that'll work!
It was only a small percentage of people who rose up against the British. Lucky for all of us they did. Hopefully you have enjoyed some of the freedoms that were gained by those who lost their lives many years ago. Unfortunately, what they fought for, much of those freedoms have been lost over the past 100 years!
Then why don't you get your own group together and protest the protest? In order for change to occur, something must be at stake, or else it's all just a "nuissance" for everyone to easily dismiss. This involves absolutely showing everyone that something is worng in the country, so that it's not a mere "annoyance" that can be swept under the rug. This will inevitably involve annoying a bunch of whiny people who are less affected by the current state of affairs than those "lower down the ladder" and will cite their virtuous lifestyles as their get-out-of-jail-free card when if they would realise their responsibilities and duties and help solve the problems this country faces - or at least show support and tolerance for those who are - the protesters will go away, I assure you.
I would like to reccomend a HANDS ACROSS AMERICA to beginning next Thursday at noon in support of the Occupy Wall Street Movement.This will give many of the 99% of us an opportunity to participate in this cause!!! High school sudents, teachers, those in serving in the Armed Forces...can all particiapate. Truck drivers, cab drivers can blow their horns and sirens...churches could dust of their bells and ring them...this is something we can all do...Just Hold Hands for 10 minutes in STRENGTH UNITY & LOVE - WE ARE THE 99%!!! Hold hands in support of this movement in support of the Occupy Wall Street Movement - Hey let's invite the rest of the world to join in!!! Let's make it a habit to hold hands on Thursdays at NOON until we suceed in making this world a better place,
I would like to reccomend a HANDS ACROSS AMERICA to beginning next Thursday at noon in support of the Occupy Wall Street Movement.This will give many of the 99% of us an opportunity to participate in this cause!!! High school sudents, teachers, those in serving in the Armed Forces...can all particiapate. Truck drivers, cab drivers can blow their horns and sirens...churches could dust of their bells and ring them...this is something we can all do...Just Hold Hands for 10 minutes in STRENGTH UNITY & LOVE - WE ARE THE 99%!!! Hold hands in support of this movement in support of the Occupy Wall Street Movement - Hey let's invite the rest of the world to join in!!! Let's make it a habit to hold hands on Thursdays at NOON until we suceed in making this world a better place,
its time to get armed. we're obviously all just getting beaten without our voices being heard. People are being abused and hit, denied of their constitutional and natural human rights. Let's see if they hear us once we bring bats....sorry I'm a complete pascifist, but I've had enough.
It's interesting how a movement, which had some valid points at it's inception, is being subverted by the fringe elements of society. The anti-capitalist, anti-corporate, socialist message is now coming through fairly clearly. You are destined to fail.
Please everyone, in these situations, try to CALM the crowd rather than inflame it. The more crazy it gets, the more people will be hurt.
Capitalism must be replaced by democracy!
Scott olsen and every one of you occupiers are traitors to this country and lazy individuals that believe this country owes you something. Only thing it owes you or me is the right to exist. You make your own way and dont ask for handouts from anyone.
Sir, I do not know where you people keep getting your "facts" from, but we must never tire of letting those, whether trolls or just ignorant, understand over and over and over and over and over and over again that OWS is not asking for a handout. Unless you are part of the 1%, the money that was supposed to go back into the economy was kept by CEOs as bonuses - that is theft, and fraud. Whatever you think the country owes you, you are pliable to it's laws, and those involved MUST be dealt with and the system changed so that this kind of thing is not possible in the future. So unless you're willing to get YOUR "lazy" ass up and do something about it, these people are real Americans who aren't afraid of the change it takes to make a better world. These people are heroes, not someone who has nothing better to do than sit around on their "lazy" asses and call people names that don't even fit.
Capitalism is based on the idea that the consumer will balance and maintain the system. However, in today's world the consumer has been greedy, they have sought only the cheapest product with little regard to ethical impact of their decision. This greed has been reflected at the top. It is now up to consumers, it is up to us, to balance the system. We must overcome our greed and spend the extra dollar on the most ethical purchase, not the cheapest. Your dollar is a moral extension of yourself. You decide which companies to grow and which to weed out with each purchase you make. Support the organic, the sustainable, and the green. Buy your gifts from Main St. not Wal-Mart and shop local. Put your money in your local bank or credit union while avoiding the too big to fail.
Currently we need regulation to maintain accountability. It would not happen overnight but in a morally conscious market any immoral company would be defeated and render government regulation unnecessary. This could pave a path for liberals and conservatives overcome their differences come together under one movement acting as one people, which is what we truly are. United we will be powerful enough to make the change we both so desire. We can stand together to end corruption by reestablishing a morally accountable capitalism where government regulation is no longer necessary. We are not different, we are human beings. This is our moment. Be the change you want to see.
MLK: Today, is the time to stop singing and start swinging!
The 1% own the henchmen, e.g. police/military/judges/lawyers, that beat down anyone who threatens the livelihood of the 1%.
Class warfare is a WAR! WARS are violent!
The only way the 1% is going to realize the seriousness of their actions is by suffering the consequences, e.g. violence, of their oppression against the 99%.
Awesome song follows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52957kl76Y
MLK: Today, is the time to stop singing and start swinging!
The 1% own the henchmen, e.g. police/military/judges/lawyers, that beat down anyone who threatens the livelihood of the 1%.
Class warfare is a WAR! WARS are violent!
The only way the 1% is going to realize the seriousness of their actions is by suffering the consequences, e.g. violence, of their oppression against the 99%.
Awesome song follows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n52957kl76Y
Class warfare is CONFLICT. Not all conflict is violent. A game of chess is a war - a conflict. It is up to the individual to not get sucked into the idea that you cannot "win" a conflict with "authorities" without violence. Those of the 1% who ARE part of the problem will NEVER learn anything deep in their hearts. The only way to change things currently is to make laws that do not allow them to harm the rest of us with their actions. This gets into politics and legislators - many bought and paid for, so alternate ways must be found - it is a long, tedious process which will likely take years.
What I cannot understand at this point is the differential between interest rates on mortgages and auto loans versus student loans. For example, home loans are between 3 and 4 percent. These rates are a significant cut due to home mortgage crisis. In addition, auto loans are at a premium going for 0 to 4 percent. While these industries have cut the interest rates to bare minimums, why hasn't the education industry followed suit? Why are student loans still between 6.5 and 13 percent? This surely will create another bubble similar to the home mortgage crisis for this country. And, to make matters worse, the government now owns the student loan debt. By offering a program that allows the reduction in interest rates to individuals with existing student loans will permit the government to offset the balance from its debt obligations.
I believe a solution presents itself for the student loan problem in this country: Student Loan Modifications. These could be offered to individuals with existing student loans not in default to modify their loans to a lower interest rate between 2.5 to 4 percent. Someone tell me why this would not be a good program?
The violence is starting...Now, especially now, we need to identify the key ingredient in our movement. (No, I'm not talking about making a list of grievences like some of those without understanding are calling for.) I'm talking about identifying our enemy and having a goal that we all can stand for. Please check out this short video and consider how it might shape this movement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwBPT5apvAk&list=LLm72CL8TM6ZcoY2s2nPfYWg&index=1&feature=plpp_video
stay strong! - all of you o.w.s.-people got the absolute solidarity from the german public! keep it up!
I can see that people are demanding their dignity. These NYPD filth LOVE beating on harmless people with no weapons. That's what will ultimately be their undoing.
The power of the masses is being demonstrated POLITELY right now. If concessions aren't made soon, it will escalate as necessary. This is a revolutionary moment.
Better to fight for something than live for nothing.
George S. Patton
Problem with such statements, is that it's better to work out a solution that doesn't involve costly fighting. As if, if you aren't fighting you are living for nothing. It's HOW you're fighting that's more important. A similar sentiment is "If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything". Little attempts at cleverness that are okay in themselves, but can really screw you up when you really start to examine them. Emotional biases are not bad, unless they have concretized into unchangeable dogma. Convictions cause convicts - but it's in the heart of the prisoner that lies the deepest urge for freedom. And believing in nothing is quite fine if you look at it as no thing. In other words, there's not one thing you believe in AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL THE OTHERS. Believing in nothing is kind of the same as saying you believe in every-thing. That there ARE other belief systems out there and that each one may have something to add to the puzzle. Syncretism. Pluck the tried-and-true good things and leave the tried-and-true bad things behind. Hard to do.
Good video to watch and realize why the police are attacking us and how we got to where we are today - Enemy's of the State: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS8noyAWQfw&feature=player_embedded
I really liked the way the cops came up on their scooters and tried to block the street but couldn't. Then it looked like someone got knocked down or something and the cops tried to take advantage of that by trying to grab/beat/subdue that person but many other people came and it looked they actually dragged that person away from the cops. The cops kind of retreated to their scooters to make sure nobody was going to take them. It looked they were not quite so tough when they were severly outnumbered. I'm sure it's not easy being a cop, at least a good cop, but the law is the law and it is there for all people not just the elites. Like Jim Morrison said..."They got the guns but we got the numbers."
Protestors need to be aware of the "Hooded Youths" scenario too. That is one of the governments/police departments best tricks for dispersing crowds and shedding a bad light on protesters. As we have seen in many protests overseas recently, when large numbers begin to assemble in protest, suddenly "Hooded Youths" show up and start breaking windows, causing violence, etc. It gives the police every excuse they need to start using tear gas and rubber bullets to break up the protests. What I find odd about the news reports is,,,if their faces are covered what makes the media so sure their "Youths"?
I really liked the way the cops came up on their scooters and tried to block the street but couldn't. Then it looked like someone got knocked down or something and the cops tried to take advantage of that by trying to grab/beat/subdue that person but many other people came and it looked they actually dragged that person away from the cops. The cops kind of retreated to their scooters to make sure nobody was going to take them. It looked they were not quite so tough when they were severly outnumbered. I'm sure it's not easy being a cop, at least a good cop, but the law is the law and it is there for all people not just the elites. Like Jim Morrison said..."They got the guns but we got the numbers."
Can anyone else smell a false flag brewing?
yup!
A new prayer for the conservative wealthy Fox news lovers who use Christ as a crutch but do not adhere to his teachings.
Our money, which art with Halliburton, hallowed be thy value, My kingdoms here, I have a lot, hopefully it follows me from earth straight into heaven (lol) Give us this day our daily profits, and if we trespass against anyone screw em! but if they trespass against us, we'll sue, and lead us straight into temptation, and deliver us HUGE PROFITS out of evil. Paymen!
Unfortunately, we all know or have a gut feeling as to what's coming. In one of these places that the bravest among us our occuying due to the tyranny that's been unleashed against us, some person with a badge and a club and gun is going to unleash his weapons upon the people and his coward companions are going to follow suit. That's unfortunately the nature of the beast when people are given power of others and don't have the dilegence to hold back from misusing that power. It's in their DNA and using violence is how they get off. When this happens, things will never again be the same for any law enforcement official, elected politician or President ever again. At that moment the United States will be reborn into a new knowledge of just how fascist the powers in this country are, and need to be done away with for good! They no longer serve us--only the elite.
This wasn't enough? How about Kent state?
That was a different time. If the internet had been around in the 70's then it's possible the people could have retaken what was theirs through an organizational movement as the internet is allowing for today. Also, the adults of that time trusted the system and everything that was said was gospel. We've learned as time has passed and our technologies and communications have improved just how corrupt and misguided the system is as it only serves a very few. People in the 70's were much more comfortable in their ways of living and when thats the case tend to turn the other way when terrible events occur, as they want to remain comfortable and not rock the boat. Now though people don't have as much to lose because so many have lost so much already, which is allowing people to stand up for justice! When you've lost everything all that's left is to fight for righteousness. Leading me to believe that, people have been getting screwed over so hard in the multimillions the past 5 years or so, that all its going to take is someone with power in their hands to abuse it against someone or a group of people for people to say thats enough! People who have positions of power of any kind love to show it off as to just how much power they have--be it a cop--politician whatever, they cant help themselves. So it's really only a question of when that day is going to be. As long as people have the ability to communicate quickly and rally around any sort of abuses against our basic human rights--that will be the point of no return for those in power as that line will have been crossed. Guess we have to wait until that day to find out, but it's not too far off, as tensions grow--it's only a matter of time.
I'm getting to addicted to these comments, please excuse multiple posts--but using labels like fascist as a generic swearword really misleads people, so you won't be able to recognize the real fascists. Trotsky had a very specific definition of the fascism of the 1930's, which was: a movement organized by the ruling class of the petty bourgeoisie (class of small shopkeepers and professionals) to smash the working class.
continue to inspire us!
the cops want to make this look like a riot, its not, if it goes that way its the fault of the police
It’s a common trend to believe that non-violent protesting will change the economy and world around you, but in fact it will not. People will become exhausted and eventually they will disband their camps and all the efforts will be left unheard. Let’s not forget who you’re protesting against - the 1% of the people who control 99% of the resources and have total disregard to the rest of humanity. Do you think they will pay attention to your tears unless they’re threatened?
That's why we'll need a revolutionary party, highly organized. You can't overthrow the wealthiest, most powerful system in the history of the world on the basis of intuition alone. I think the present OWS is doing a magnificent job of steering what in fact is a very revolutionary course, but even with the internet to involve millions almost instantly, there's got to be a really strong leadership. There are too many traps along the way, like being co-opted by Democrats and illusions that we can fix the present system.
Thinking about what i see transpiring makes me nervous, im not a fortun teller or one who has visions, after watching this video, first thing came to mind was how easy it would be to insert a few "..." pull some shady shit which will of course require police to defend themselves have it escalate in a 1 or2 week period. finally classified as out of control with who knows how many dead and injured protestors.then some government official demands the national guard, then a complete dismantling nationwide to all OWS protests by force of course if necessary and finally the declaration of martial law. then where does that leave us without a damn paddle? the movement ended the whole thing which of course will be perfectly focused on mainstream news. i hope im just paranoid or perhaps just know what is capable of being pulled off by shady sons a bitches who have done/ trained4 and pulled off similar tatics with percision i guess its probably to late now wheels are turning and i dont know if the brakes are working damn it
Thinking about what i see transpiring makes me nervous, im not a fortun teller or one who has visions, after watching this video, first thing came to mind was how easy it would be to insert a few "..." pull some shady shit which will of course require police to defend themselves have it escalate in a 1 or2 week period. finally classified as out of control with who knows how many dead and injured protestors.then some government official demands the national guard, then a complete dismantling nationwide to all OWS protests by force of course if necessary and finally the declaration of martial law. then where does that leave us without a damn paddle? the movement ended the whole thing which of course will be perfectly focused on mainstream news. i hope im just paranoid or perhaps just know what is capable of being pulled off by shady sons a bitches who have done/ trained4 and pulled off similar tatics with percision i guess its probably to late now wheels are turning and i dont know if the brakes are working damn it
Millions not thousands.The will of the people can and will be heard and is starting to be taken very serious by those who own the power of the gov't . stand tonight and demand change.stand everyday and night till true change can be brought to a reality. we the people, need to stand untied against all who oppose true in gov't and big business. Hard working american's as well as those who are without job's need to stand united before it becomes to late.
Enough people rowing in the same direction, with great resolve, can accomplish what may at first seem impossible. Keep rowing. Think. Act responsibly in a coordinated effort.
yes that takes time, but in the end things must change. But thanks.
It would appear that we have a wonderful movement going in this country that could accomplish much but lacks some leadership. I believe that 99% of the American people are with you however what exactly is it that you want to happen? I believe that this is a beginning..."You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election
Congressional Reform Act of 2011
It would appear that we have a wonderful movement going in this country that could accomplish much but lacks some leadership. I believe that 99% of the American people are with you however what exactly is it that you want to happen? I believe that this is a beginning..."You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election
Congressional Reform Act of 2011
There is more might and power in numbers than anything else. The voice of the people will only be heard if we the people can convince not just thousands to stand up for freedom of choice and speech. Mark my words if all who believe true change is needed then go out and convince all others to march and stand with you. We the people will bring about true change to a system that forgets who it serves.
We are in solidarity with Oakland
#DogPileAbusivePolice
All great revolutions got started in earnest with a death, sad to say. Seems like things are going that way. People don't get really riled up until somebody dies and the media jumps all over it.
http://occupyyallstreet.blogspot.com/
We're striking on Nov 2nd in Oakland - let's make this a nationwide strike!
Way to be OWS. Stay strong and dry. Before I stopped by to see everyone on Sunday I was at Occupy Boston and videoed Chomsky found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUb-9YNhxWI
Interesting support of the occupy movement by John Avalos in san francisco. He is a mayoral candidate and has defended occupy sf's right to assemble. He was the first and now other local politiicans have stepped up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbfRZPt7UFY
The stupidity of a democracy that attacks peaceful protest and disrespects the peoples freedoms will only encourage others to venture out to support and defend our U.S. Constitution. -James J. Pond
The probability that we may fall in our struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. It shall not deter me. -Abraham Lincoln
Occupy Oakland failed to keep it non violent. The blame does not rest entirely on the police. Movement people were quoted as saying the vandals and people showing knives and throwing bottles at the police do not represent them but they should know better and not have night time demonstrations in this dangerous city. I saw footage of someone smashing a squad car window and reports of people throwing things and shooting paint pellets. This is not Non-violence. More loss of credibility. I lament the sorry state of the left.
there is no video or photographic proof of that, just people quoting? I find that hard to believe, and if true, it surely wasn't widespread. There would be evidence of that, thousands of cameras somehow failed to capture all the people throwing rocks?
We reached 5200 votes out of 20,000 to get a free Occupy Wall Street billboard up in New York. Please share this on Occupy Wall St FB & Twitter pages.
http://www.epicstep.com/campaign/337/occupytogether-occupywallst-billboard/
troll
All my support from Madrid. I was there in May with the #spanishrevolution and the 15-May Movement and, even though i do know that is really hard sometimes, the global revolution must to be peacefull. Besides, all this stuff is an awful promo for the 1%. In Spain we have a slogan that remind me your "we are all Scott Olsen", it's like "if you touch one, you touch everyone" (nos tocan a una, nos tocan a todas) All this global movement is fucking awesome Resist!
this is only the start!!!!
I have never been more proud or more ashamed all at the same time. I have never before in my life been prouder of my fellow men and women or of being an American as I am right now. At the same time I have never been more ashamed about the reason why this movement became necessary. Nor I have I ever in my life time been more ashamed of the actions of our government. Love you all. You are all heroes.
Greetings and solidarity to our American brothers and sisters from Greece.May the OWS movement evolve into a global PEACEFUL uprising of the people! Stand strong and keep it peaceful, I cannot stress that enough!!! Please don't be fooled by the news reports,the vast majority of the Greek protesters are non-violent and just want to express our frustration and agony about the future of our country.The riot scenes that you see on the news are caused mainly by undercover police posing as "anarchists" and-in a much smaller degree- by teenagers with too much adrenaline rush.Learn from us,because the American police will try that on you too,these are standard tactics worldwide.Don't believe the MSM lies, dividing people and making them hate each other is a centuries-old proven strategy.We,as you,are hard working,decent people,who saw their "sweat and blood" vaporized in front of our eyes by bankers' ponzy schemes and greedy,corrupt politicians. United we will stand or fall !!! At any case,we will put up a fight to be remembered!
P.S. We have no updated information on how Scott Olsen is doing,we hope he's doing better and recovering. Police provocation has already started.Stand strong, our brothers and sisters,stand strong !
OWS has made a principle out of rejecting leaders and operating by consensus--Doonesbury has a satirical take on this which is spot-on. This method of organization--if you can call it that--is a major mistake whose destructive effects will become apparent in short order. For example, I read today about the issues presented by the OWS receipt of $500,000 in donations--who will decide? The problems of power and conflict cannot be solved by turning away from them. In fact, what you end up with is covert leadership and the surreptitious growth of an organizational elite that dominates by force of personality. Ultimately, a charismatic figure appears and takes control, particularly if there's cash on hand. A revolutionary movement like OWS requires the development of a new power-elite-proof form of democratic leadership and accountable structure--a very tall order indeed, but one which needs to be filled, and soon. There's a lot to be learned on this--positive and negative--from the 1960s. I say all this because I want this movement to succeed--I'm 67 and would like to be around to see that.
As an impartial observer, I wish someone could explain to me how the "occupy" movements are accomplishing anything other than pissing off the regular folks in the immediate vicinity or their encampments. Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are some serious issues with "the system" but I just haven't been able to make the connection between running in the streets and affecting true, lasting, meaningful change of any financial institution or system. Help me understand, please. I'm being serious and genuine here, I really do want to know.
Yeah they could be better, but it is easy to say that from outside. Ultimately they are doing pretty well all things considered, unfortunately the info on what exactly the purpose of a protest is is not widespread, but read up what martin luther king, ghandi etc. say about it, it is more than just publicity. Create a crisis for the government, tactics are always changing too, in our case it is even more than that, we are setting up parallel systems of government, sort of like a backup system to use when the main system is broken.
Thanks for the reply, Fredone, but I guess that's kind of my point here. As of this moment, I am an outsider. I'm one of those people who is also 100% pissed at wall street and their "money by any means" methods, but fails to see how running around (city, town, province, etc) is an answer. And, quite frankly, if that is the best we can come up with, I'll stay outside. But only because this methodology doesn't make sense to me when applied in this manner. Against a totalitarian regime or dictatorship it makes perfect sense. There is a clear cut objective and a foreseeable outcome--the ouster of said regime or dictator. But seriously now, if this movement can't make its plan, and intended result, plain to me and my simple friends in fly-over country, then it is never going to have the kind of support it could have. And that means it will never have the kind of impact it could have. Remember: the media isn't going to make plain the movement's intentions. The movement will have to do that for itself. And I dare say it needs to do so in a manner that all of us can understand.
OMG, okay I am a tolerant guy but this is too much: you are sitting on your duff complaining about how other people are not doing things. People ARE doing the things you suggest, you just don't see it sitting on your duff at home. No one is going to spend their time finding and implementing YOUR hairbrained ideas, sitting in some crevice deep in the internet. If you think they would work so well, get down to your local occupation, join the demands working group, and tell them that.
Otherwise shut up.
Actually Fredone, I haven't suggested anything other than this movement making it's goals and intents clear. I haven't offered any ideas, let alone any hairbrained ones. Have you been reading my posts, or someone else's? I've asked how this movement is going to convince me that what they're doing is going to affect any kind of real change. That's all I want to know and I didn't really think it would be that hard of a question. I certainly didn't think that I would get an angry, judgmental response like this. If your response is your idea of tolerant perhaps it would be worthwhile to spend a few minutes at dictionary.com because I think you may have it slightly off. For the record, I'm a regular person, just like most of the folks who're making up this movement. I get up, go to work, come home and try to make the best of what I've got. If your best advice to me is to shut up, then I find myself genuinely confused because isn't our right to free speech (and the subsequent possibility of disagreeing) what enables this movement in the first place? One final question: Your post says "I am a tolerant guy" so I wonder what, exactly, are you tolerating in this particular case?
Wow, I had no idea the politicians would want to keep all of their stolen money!!! http://tdarkcabal.blogspot.com/ I thought they'd give it away to save this great nation!!
Get ready everyone!!! Might be time to start the civil war and WWIII like all these rich political thieves want us to and hunt THEM down one by one. You're not allowed to treat Republicans, Democrats, Independents, white collar, blue collar, bums, or any one else that way in America Mr. Police Officers! I wouldn't be surprised if you all get a good taste of your own medicine. These are all the people who have been fucked out of their homes, can't pay their bills, or need the money you politicians stole by your beloved illegal international banking operations!
Whose bikes? Our bikes! On our streets! Way to go OWS! Solidarity Denver
What is it Egypt has more freedom to assemble than America? What happened?
Dude there were 847 people killed during Egyptian uprising and 6000 injured. Are you kidding?
No. Not kidding. And that response doesn't change the fact that they have more freedom to assemble than we do. In Europe too.
Sorry I didn't mean to be so flip, it was really late! but I just think its important we keep perspective. And make the distinction between "assembling" and camping overnight in public spaces that are closed. I am all for the movement and for assembling all day long for as long as we need to. But we are putting law enforcement in a bad situation by insisting that overnight tent cities are the same as free assembly. My Dad was a cop and I have a cousin who is a cop in Florida. And they want to support the movement but they also have to keep order and when we push back with deliberate law-breaking, throwing shit and verbal aggression, it makes it really hard for them. They should be with us they are the 99% also. That said they will never fire bullets at protestors. In Egypt Mubarek is currently on trial for ORDERING the killings of protestors. We are not remotely in that situation and I just think we need to keep some perspective.
Whose bikes? Our bikes! On our streets! Way to go OWS! Solidarity Denver
We are fighting for democracy everywhere. "Free Iran" “Khomeinists are Murderers" "Free Iranian Journalists" "Free Iranian Students" "Stop Raping Iranian Girls" "Stop Polygamy" "Stop Lashing Human" “Free Syria”” “Stop Assad’s Killing Khomeinie Style”
You were duped. The Iranian regime supports OWS, so why would OWS denounce them. Let me ask you this, did you ever see the left demonstrate against the crimes of the Iranian or the Syrian regime? in fact Iran Wants the U.N. To Investigate U.S. Police Response To OWS, read more on CNN: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/iran-rallies-support-us-protesters-urges-un-probe-police-response
And read this please: http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2011/10/25/the-lefts-craven-love-of-tyranny-in-the-middle-east-and-elsewhere/
Movie tickets are very expensive. Why people should pay $10 for ticket for a bunch of loosers to live in $20 million mansions and party everynight displaying expensive jewlery. So I say: "No more RED Carpet" "Movie Tickets for $1" "No more stars living in Mansions in Italy, It is American money". "Use American Girl" "No More Fashion Designers" "Design for Poor" "Jewrely for Poor" "Concerts for $3"
We're "fighting" now are we? Have we lost then?
Be strong. Be peaceful. Be something more.
ANYONE who does not defend our 1st Amendment rights, is giving them up for themselves.
OCCUPY THE NEWS! Use your donations to make fun of dishonest rhetoric and meaningless political jargon and to expose those who have an arrogant lack of empathy with the 99%.
I've recently heard about the call for a general strike on Nov. 2. What say ye all?
Yep. All several hundred of you will do tremendous damage to the NYC economy together.
Your sarcasm will not stop this movement, revolution, call for social change. Sorry, it can't be stopped.
It has not even started. Don't let the news coverage and chattering class babble go to your head. There is nothing actually going on. The real revolution will be when we get control of the government in 2012 by voting out all the statists.
No, voting is not the answer right now. There is no one to vote for--still the lesser of two evils bullshit. The real revolution is happening and it is nonviolent and directly democratic. Have you been anywhere near any of the Occupations? Do you know a whit about consensus process or building community? Have you ever been willing to be arrested in the cause of Peace? Have you ever taken it to the streets? If you think the ballot box is the way to change, you are missing the boat and a whole lot of fun, to say nothing of damn hard work.
Your cause is being sucked into a sinkhole of leftist, radical nonsense. Unions, global warming, civil rights, . . . it's over. The news is like a magnifying lens. In reality, there are statistically zero people involved in this, and the same amount paying any attention.
You seem to be paying attention, of a sort.
It's a hobby of mine - sort of an obscure branch of anthropology.
//i.imgur.com/yGfyU.jpg
non sequitor
The mileniarism is coming ¡ http://maquetasestaticas.blogspot.com
Oakland GA called for a general strike on Nov 2nd http://www.occupyoakland.org/2011/10/general-strike-mass-day-of-action/#comments
we the people, the 99% must reach out to everyone we know and even those we don't. This movement must keep growing it's numbers and size. The masses will make change happen but it will not be easy as seen in Oakland Ca. and Orlando FL. But this is the beginning and not the end.
Beautiful!
you should all simultaneously demand to be arrested for committing the same crimes as, those who are part of the movement, have been arrested already. march to the police stations and demand the release of those innocent victims of police brutality and insanity, or demand your own arrest, admitting your crimes of walking, talking, sitting sleeping etc, in your own country, city, street etc. therefore crushing the system with its own rules. announce it everywhere, take back your freedom. crush the system, don't feed it. dont pay taxes, fines, bills or anythin else goin to the system. peace an love always from the isle of man and all around the world! we are truly the 100%, so please forgive those who need it the most. love love love x x x
Nice letter to "regular people" about occupiers. "Your Bravest Children." Sums up how I feel about it.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/27/1030675/-Your-Bravest-Children?via=user
ny1 coverage
http://www.ny1.com/content/149649/west-coast--occupy--clash-sparks-nyc-march--ends-in-at-least-10-arrests
Way to go!!!! I'm so happy to hear that!!! I saw some of it on MSNBC last night..... the one network that continually focuses on this movement and reports the wrongdoings of the police.
try democracy now.
Another one bites the dust...and another one gone...and another one gone...
its time to get armed. we're obviously all just getting beaten without our voices being heard. People are being abused and hit, denied of their constitutional and natural human rights. Let's see if they hear us once we bring bats....sorry I'm a complete pascifist, but I've had enough.
Perfect! Give the police a real reason to crack heads. I guess you've moved from being "a complete pacifist" to being in favor of violent revolution.
im glad we're doing the thursday massive takeover. My prior comment was rather out of frustration, for people were just sitting and protesting. this massive take over is more of what i was hoping for to happen. lets still stay peaceful people! they will not contain us!
-Anon
It is amazing to me what the Oakland police are saying, "That they responded to violence from the marchers, that the protesters were throwing bottles etc." I have watched all the videos available and not once do I see anyone throwing anything except the projectiles AS THEY ARE FIRED AT THEM BY THE POLICE THE PEOPLE ABLE TO WHO ARE MARCJING GRAB THEM AND THROW THEM BACK IN A DIRECTION AWAY FROM THE MARCHERS! IT IS CALLED PROTECTION NOT VIOLENCE!
God bless you all in NYC
We are ants pushing in coordination against an oncoming herd of stampeding bulls.
Why is Occupy Wallstreet embracing Islamacists? There is a media blackout about what the "revolutionaries" in Egypt are all about. They are killing the indigenous Coptic Christians and desecrating churches, abducting and raping Christian women and moving forth with implementing Islamic Law. These people are not the friends of Democracy and are going to alienate people who might otherwise join up. They are just there to stir up trouble and gain power - like the demagogues that Occupy Wallstreet is trying to fight.
No, that's just propaganda, read up on it a bit.
you have no mind of your own.
does anyone know why when I try to go back to reply's computer screen say's forbidden 403???
I'm having exactly the same problem.
There are people who say it's being done on purpose for those who express themselves in words that the police feel are a threat to the rule of order, i do not know for syre if this is the truth or not. Just what I've heard.
So, this is why helicopters were flying and sirens were wailing all last night, depriving my ability to get some sleep.
These types of actions (by protesters) are far removed from your right to peaceful assembly and protest. Many of the protesters have been consistently crossing the line and infringing upon others liberties, not to mention costing tax payers millions. These types of actions will quickly erode the support you have garnered and will get you nowhere fast except the statusquo with the addition of a new shinny police record and less chance of getting a good job.
You are directing you anger against the wrong people. The OWS people don't have any helicopters or sirens.
Amusing how you take something that was obviously done by the cops and blame the victims they were attacking, instead.
In case you haven't noticed, we are allowed to walk - or run if we choose, on public streets. You should be complaining to the police dept, not us. Tell them to lay off and let us exercise our 1st amendment rights in peace.
wrong, know why? because now that we have FREE information, we can see through the bullshit that big money peddles to the American public. More are joining the fight every day. Poor you, helicopters kept you awake? That has been happening to me for years, living in a big city and all. When did you move to NYC from the sticks?
Tell that to Scott Olsen.
OK, so I guess because of what happened to one person in Oakland, protesters have a free reign to do whatever they please in NYC.
You want to do something because of the Oakland incident, file a complaint or a lawsuit. I'm sure Scott's family will. Do not infringe on everyone else's rights across the country. There is a line between protesting, and starting a riot. Acting like two year olds in a tantrum is not going to get your movement any sympathy.
If you so prefer quiet to freedom, why don't you just move to communist China, hm? Police imposed curfews, can't go out past 10 pm, but hey it's quiet!
No sir. I can tell by your demeanor that you are more worried about your own sleep than what's really important in this country right now. The Occupy movement is NOT a mere inconvenience to be lightly dismissed. What happened to "one" person? You greatly misunderstand. It's what has been done to this country, and Scott Olsen (beyond the fact that something so horrible must happen to anybody singular or in groups) is simply one in a long line of people being screwed in one way or another. These people are out there trying to make a difference and get put in ICU while you cry yourself to sleep at night hiding behind a system which is broken. I'm sure a lawsuit is coming, but only someone with myopic vision would possibly not see that that isn't the root of the problem.
This little exchange is a most excellent example of how to NOT win over the hearts and minds to this movement.
Perhaps Prag's tone is dismissive but he brings up some valid points. Being dismissive in return doesn't actually help the movement grow. It may feel good to stick it to 'em, but now there's one more person who was maybe on the fence, probably not any more.
I appreciate what you are saying, but this person is not on the fence at all. Like too many Americans, his tone suggests - not just mere dismissal, but the incredibly absurd notion that a change will occur in this world on a scale beneficial for everyone as long as it is quiet and completely within all confines of the law as it exists now. If this were to happen, there would be no women's suffrage, no civil rights movement, and unless something affects these people personally, they will never see how big a problem it all actually is. Change is exactly that - challenging the system that exists with new ideas. This is, by definition, something that can not be done completely within the confines of the law since that very law is the thing being challenged - unless the law itself makes provisions for it to be changed. Thanks to many corporate decisions, this has become almost impossible to do completely within the confines of the law unless you have the money, and so the occupation must exist. Since the occupation must exist, petty annoyances are merely a reminder that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, which I assure you will go away with your (everyone's) assistance in solving the problem(s).
RIGHT ON and well put MadProfit
Movie tickets are very expensive. Why people should pay $10 for ticket for a bunch of loosers to live in $20 million mansions and party everynight displaying expensive jewlery. So I say: "No more RED Carpet" "Movie Tickets for $1" "No more stars living in Mansions in Italy, It is American money". "Use American Girl" "No More Fashion Designers" "Design for Poor" "Jewrely for Poor" "Concerts for $3"
horrible post.. you fail
He's been mindlessly posting the same thing repeatedly. Spamming.
I know, and I let him know he failed:)
stop giving oakland an excuse to riot, or it'll be occupy the korean grocery and wherever you can buy a tv.
i am the 16% (but i commit 50% of the crime)
We are all with you brothers and sisters We need to stop the greed now.
I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.
For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
You are so wrong about protesting in the streets not being effective. Have you heard of the Civil Rights Movement, the women's suffrage movement, the Walkout by Latino students in the L.A. public school system, etc.? They all started and succeeded with protests in the streets.
civil rights movement. the one that failed to actually secure racial equality?
LA publicschools.. the ones that are still run in essence as matrix dumble down cages?
they all started and failed because nobody ever did serious homework.
if we had ever had a successful social movement in this country, it wouldn't be like it is.
They keep beating us because we are all protest- no substance.
i am not wrong about this you are missing the point.
The efforts of these movements DID lead to improvements in the legal rights of previously oppressed groups of people. It took a long time, and I don't think the OWS has any illusions about that. Can you, sir, pray tell - what is your plan for a successful social movement?
you asked...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA
I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.
For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Also - I agree with you about the nature of the forum - but there is a Wild Wild West kind of nature to the free thoughts generated on these things that fascinate me - I myself gather up proposed solutions for problems from them and collect them all into something I am hoping to edit down into a syncretism to see if there are solutions that will appease almost everyone.
please use the wiki as a tool to do that.
;)
Indeed - good points made there - not trying to call you out as a troll, just disagreeing with your assumption that protests do nothing. Historically that just isn't true, and it hasn't been true here. Do I think things will magically change JUST from protests? No, but it brings the critical publicity required to heighten general public awareness about issues while others such as at the general assembly (and independent groups) are working on the actual solutions and dialoguing with professors and "authority" figures. The movement is non-partisan, even if some of it's supporters don't understand that. I like your wiki!
you are right. , it serves as the flash point to start the conversation.
the problem is still that as of yet the home work isn't even started. maybe i should amend the bit somehow to reflect this. On the other hand i don't think i can afford to be any less urgent.
We just need to inform people about why they should be joining the movement - the problem is most people dont even know why this movement is happening.
A list of talking points to support OWS:
http://knockknockrevolution.tumblr.com/flyers
help us convert non-occupiers to occupiers! tell your friends and families!
Add 1919 to your list. These critics need to learn their history.
Already, arrests have been made for insider trading, probes into bank fees, corporations pushing B-corporations. The conversation about how we make, use, and distribute money is out there now - not in dusty academic rooms, but in the public's face the way it should be. Politicians have straight up said they didn't want OWS to gain legitimacy because in the sixties it shaped policy. You sir, are SO wrong about street protesting - it continues to inspire people who are coming up with OTHER ideas about how to change what's been happening to our democracy and it is happening ALL. OVER. THE. WORLD. Do you get it? EVERYWHERE. WE. OUTNUMBER. THE. 1%. WAKE. UP!!!!!!!!!
We just need to inform people about why they should be joining the movement - the problem is most people dont even know why this movement is happening.
A list of talking points to support OWS:
http://knockknockrevolution.tumblr.com/flyers
help us convert non-occupiers to occupiers! tell your friends and families!
!
I am not sure what you mean by my being wrong about it. Do you know about 1919? And that it was probably the most effective year in the US for protest in shaking the status quo?
Anyway, you are preaching to the choir. I am participating in occupy oakland.
Sorry - was a reply to gawdoftruth and not you, aaronparr!
repost to him so that he can see it. you are only alerted to direct replies to your comments.
done.
Great post and please keep it up. This is a serious time and needs a serious movement, which this absolutely can be. I think still in early stages but people like you will help to really get structures and systems in place for next waves. very inspiring thank you!!
thanks for the the thanks. its crucial that you get on the wiki. this site will only bury real discussion and work, every moment we spend here we are throwing out time to the wolves.
phone numbers for clinics gathered, do wall Go do it then, and see if anyone joins you. There must be at least a few other people that agree with you. Having seen some of your previous posts, which consisted of trolling, I am suspecting your motives, but there is some wheat among the chaff here. But ultimately the method of working together must fit the people not vice versa. We are doing the things you suggest, to the extent that they are useful. You think people here don't know how to use a wiki? We do, but we also understand their limitations, and how they are not really ready for prime time although they have their place. Also, unification and piercing through the propaganda cloud and apathy is one of the main things we need to do - still OWS only has 40 something percent approval ratings, and people are reluctant to really join in - and that is what this is. In otherwords, we are not just getting publicity to "turn into action" later, we are doing a major part of exactly what we need to do, right now. Although yes we have to work on the actual mechanisms of change too.
sorry you think anything i have said is trolling. it isn't. i'm not, and i haven't.
again, piercing the propaganda cloud happens from a wiki, not a forum.
Already, arrests have been made for insider trading, probes into bank fees, corporations pushing B-corporations. The conversation about how we make, use, and distribute money is out there now - not in dusty academic rooms, but in the public's face the way it should be. Politicians have straight up said they didn't want OWS to gain legitimacy because in the sixties it shaped policy. You sir, are SO wrong about street protesting - it continues to inspire people who are coming up with OTHER ideas about how to change what's been happening to our democracy and it is happening ALL. OVER. THE. WORLD. Do you get it? EVERYWHERE. WE. OUTNUMBER. THE. 1%. WAKE. UP!!!!!!
no, i'm dead right about street protesting. the real revolution has yet to start.
its on the wiki, not in the streets, and not in a troll forum that revolution actually happens. the 60 failed to have a revolution for failing to get lucid and this will also fail in the same way unless we wake up and actually work on the paradigm shift.
You're right! How many times have we been told in the past, don't mobilize, don't organize masses of people in the streets, trust/elect the Lesser Evil, liberal candidate--and what happens is that the independent power of the people is dissolved in favor of supporting one of the two capitalist parties. I remember someone saying, "The Democratic Party is the graveyard of every progressive movement in the twentieth century." WE HAVE TO STAY INDEPENDENT, STAY IN THE STREETS--and stay peaceful and nonviolent so millions more people who share the same problems of capitalism can join us!