Forum Post: Why do so many OWS people support Obama?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 18, 2011, 12:19 p.m. EST by KahnII
(170)
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Really people, he sold you out!!!
Hey call me crazy, but I think it is because the GOP and it’s right wings media and lackeys on this site wants to destroy OWS
and anybody that stands up for the working people including unions and moveon.org.
You really don’t expect them to vote for the enemy do you?
Look at all the righty posts, you don’t have to be Einstein to figure out who the OWS enemy is
There is no Enemy. There is no right wing radical, no left liberal commie. Except in the minds of those who created it and those who continue to propagate misinformation. Kill your television. Talk to your neighbor. Build strong communities. We will need them in the days and weeks to come.
Well said! Your last sentence is extremely important....hard times ahead but out of the ashes a better world for everyone.
Well said. It is a fabrication to divide and separate individuals so they fight for their own little piece of the American pie and ignore the fact their piece of pie continues to get smaller and smaller until there is little left but scraps; like today.
If OWS had to choose.. I think they'd choose Obama as much more the enemy to fear--- the one who benefits more from Wall Street and has bailed out Wall Street even more than the GOP.
The hard part of changing one's views after being so emotionally engaged with Obama who campaigned on real reform and change is that identifying the 'good guy,' and 'bad guy,' paradigm becomes all the more hazy.
Obama's actions who line up more with neo-conservatives as they even admit when not campaigning creates a dissonance in our minds.
Top 20 recepients of Wall Street funds: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=F07&cycle=All&recipdetail=M&sortorder=U
End The Fed Ron Lawl 2012 Eat the Globalists!
"Bloody Caps Lock"? Where are WE? England?
Got Censorship?
No 1st Amendment with OWS? Of course not! Can't keep the world Enslaved when the Slaves talk Freely, Now can you?
You people have already spammed every forum on the internet.
It's a legitimate response to the problems you've cause by drowning out everyone else's voice.
It is against the rules to use this as a forum to promote political candidates. Including Obama. If "Obama 2012" was being spammed all over every forum, they would do the same.
"Including Obama"
Funny how I can type Obama and not Ron Lawl...
BTW, listen to this guy and his critique of OWS and step out of your dumb trance:
youtube.com/watch?v=oJLel-2MBYU
why is it certain other candidates names are not changed to anything disrespectful? A lot of the OWS is full of so much crap, get it together.
Because other candidates names have not been SPAMMED by a loyal army that's constantly on the internet making everyone sick of seeing their name.
I like Dr. Paul.. I may disagree with his views, but he is a sincere man.
However, it's his loyal army of spammers that everyone is so sick of. Every forum is flooded with his name. We're sick of it.
If people keep posting "FREE HERBAL VIAGRA" or "MAKE YOUR COCK 3 INCHES LONGER", I'm sure they'll take measures against it. But, so far, this particular forum has only been attacked by you people.
We are not supposed to be a movement about any particular political candidate. That's final.
Food for thought, The people behind R.P. movement have been screaming the same thing as OWS started screaming just a lot longer. They are impassioned by the movement and want to open OWS to what he has been saying. OWS is out there Spamming the street with "We are the 99%" and god forbid you try to censor that (not that anyone should).
I believe that a lot of R.P. supporters get pretty frustrated when OWS is mic checking the one politician who supported them from the onset of these protest.
Don't act like Obama is out there helping these people. To say you understand their frustrations and then let them get abused by authorities when you have the power to stop it is a bunch of Hooey.
"Food for thought, The people behind R.P. movement have been screaming the same thing as OWS started screaming just a lot longer. "
Except RP fully embraces Corporate Personhood, acknowledges the rights of lobbyists to spend as much as they want, opposes all restrictions on the banks (Glass Steagall) unless it is the Fed, and has opposed all legislation that might hinder income inequality.
Listen, I don't even care about his politics. It's just a coincidence that they are the antithesis to what this movement is about. If people started spamming "Obama 2012" ALL OVER every single forum, I would get pretty damn sick of them also. But nobody is, so no action need be taken unless it does.
If you think posting his name all over every forum is making people like him, you're dead wrong. Nobody does Dr.Paul more of a disservice than you people.
1- In 1999, Paul opposed the GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY ACT which repealed the Glass–Steagall Act. He is also credited in the congressional record as saying this about government regulations: "The better alternative is to repeal privacy busting government regulations."
While he is all for deregulating government, it's more on the individual scale. He is not for abolishing the important regulations that hold a society together.
2- We don't actually need more government regulation, we just need the government to stay the fuck out completely.
We need to put the fear of failure back into Capitalism instead of bailing out these assholes every time they fuck up. That is how Capitalism is supposed to work.
If we stop bailing them out companies will not take reckless risks because it hurts business, makes them look bad and ultimately they will end up bankrupt. And if they do, fuck em, let them fail.
We don't need the government sticking their nose in even further and setting up bailout funds.
Let the banks operate like most Americans do. You go to Vegas and gamble your mortgage payment, you're out on the street.
3- The reason why so many of Dr. Paul's follower are here is precisely because of uninformed, false posts like yours and to clear out those misconceptions that you have about his positions.
4- Dr. Paul's positions represent what this movement is about BUT if you want a free ride, dr. Paul's not for you.
We're both wrong about GLB. He abstained.
As for corporate personhood, he definitely supported it.
In RP's world though, we would let all blind and disabled starve and die. I oppose that. period. And I oppose spamming.
I'm not trying to get into a big heated debate over his politics I was pointing out the lack of consistency in this leaderless movements policy.
And BTW I haven't been 'ALL OVER' spamming anything. Don't typecast me as a way of belittling my observations. That would just be ignorant.
I supported OWS till just about today, I still support the core of there original complaints and still respect their right to protest but I think many of the group has been captured by all the media rhetoric and condemn the GOP for what has happened to the US over the last 100 years and that is just historically inaccurate.
It is hypocrisy to condemn censorship when it applies to you but not when it applies to others.
"and condemn the GOP for what has happened to the US over the last 100 years and that is just historically inaccurate."
Howard Taft was a great president.
So was Eisenhower.
I have yet to meet a single democrat that wouldn't re-elect either of these candidates.
Your claims are ridiculous.
I'll blame the current GOP for everything that is their fault. They've turned tax cuts into a perverted fetish and they are just 1 of the obstacles we face.
no gets a discussion going about about viable options to change the system. and a candidate who is blacked out of debates since 2007 so the tactic has worked obviously.
Why do you dis like Dr. Paul?
I don't dislike Dr. Paul. I simply disagree with his politics but still hold him in high esteem. It's his loyal army of forum spammers that I dislike.
but what else do you do besides use all tools available to get a message, idea, philosophy that one feels can benefit the whole and has complete viable sense behind every step of the process? especially when he is a threat to the elite 1% so both parties demonize him marginalize him and ignore him like 89 sec in the last debate. You have to make sure people get to notice, its how you cheat a system that's rigged.
Collectivism is what the mess is all about, wealth is never created nor destroyed, its merely transferred.
So all govt can do at the end of it, is use force. So we need to use it for the extreme cases. do you engage these spammers in dialogue? if so you;d see it as an open hand to a conversation.
The people can only be united on what counts to achieve what we all want, I think and hope a lot of occupy start looking at Dr. Paul especially when the GOP and the media are against him so
"but what else do you do besides use all tools available to get a message, idea, philosophy that one feels can benefit the whole and has complete viable sense behind every step of the process? "
Spamming helps his cause no more than using guns would to get support. This is not to become a strictly partisan movement. You are a hyper-partisan group. Instead of falling along party lines, you adopt the views of 1 single candidate with a personality cult around him. This is the exact opposite direction the movement should move into.
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Glad to see someone with a brain here!
You are naïve if you think there is no radical right wing.
Who do you think the people are that are trying to destroy OWS 24/7 on this site an in the right wing media.
I know several brainwashed righties. Don’t know any lefties that they describe
I will agree that the left wing, “liberal demons” have be created by the right wing media
The right wing propaganda machine has way to many people believing that if you are not like them then you are an enemy of freedom and America (A “liberal demon”).
I have never met one of those liberal demons or other urban legions!
Just think about it.. If there is no left demon, then there is no right demon. People want to live in peace, they want to prosper, and they want to leave a better world for their children. We have been manipulated to believe our neighbor is our enemy! And sadly, we will continue to be manipulated until we become aware of it. Awareness.. so subtle, so quiet, it is almost a whisper. All we have to do is realize that neither demon exists and neither of them will.
I agree, but the only problem is the right wing media don't agree and they continue to demonize left, liberal, democrats. and create the impression that these are left wing radicals
That is a realitly that exist. Pretending that it doesn't is just plain foolish.
In my mind these right wing operatives are the biggest enemy of OWS.
Who do you think these people are?
I don't know. I really don't know
I suspect his point was to stop lining your world up by those labels. Sure, there are people in both camps, or the camps wouldn't even have a name; but this movement's interests lie outside those labels. Anyone, right or left, can be upset with seeing CEO's get huge bonuses for causing their companies to go bankrupt. Even the most ardent Republican capitalist knows that CEOs should not be rewarded for failure. They should go bankrupt! Bankruptcy is capitalism's answer for gross failure.
So, it is best not to think along right and left lines. Remember, "If it ain't right, there's only one choice that's left; but if it ain't left, there's only one choice that's right." Who cares what side someone is on for the purposes of this movement, so long as they are for justice being brought against the crooks that created this mess.
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
Wow, you really are bias and close minded. You are either ignorant or brainwashed. Good luck to you. Fight for those welfare programs, because you might need them.
Typical liberal, always playing the martyr.
Funny! You just said a hell of a lot more about yourself than me.
Why don't you backup some of your lame allegations with some examples or facts?
That’s OK, I understand. You are just another bigoted parrot that is only smart enough to call names and make false assumptions
I have never met one of those liberal demons or other urban legions!
I will agree that the left wing, “liberal demons” have be created by the right wing media
...but the only problem is the right wing media don't agree and they continue to demonize left, liberal, democrats. and create the impression that these are left wing radicals
You are so close minded that you cannot even admit that the are left wing radicals. You cannot see the crap that is on your side of the street because you are so focused on pointing out the crap on the other side.
As I said, typical liberal.
Of course there are left wing radicals. I said I have never met one.
How about you?
You haven't said shit. All you do is call me closed minded. And take shit out of context. You have no basis for your allegations other than you wanting to believe it. I’m good with that. I really don’t care what a person like you “imagines” I am.
"You are naïve if you think there is no radical right wing."
It would actually be more accurately referred to as "reactionary" right-wing.
Someone once corrected me on this. I looked it up, and concluded that is the correct term.
Don't make me look it up. What's the practical difference?
I am talking about the brainwashed follower/believer personality
"Reactionary" basically means you're trying to return to a prior state in history. I believe it can refer to a real or imagined time period.
"Radical" linguistically means "from the root". It basically advocates reforming the entire system.
If I had to categorize us, I'd say modern Liberals are just less reactionary insomuch as they advocate going back to a time after slavery was abolished and after FDR's reforms.
Conservatives, however advocate abolishing every amendment but the bill of rights, which would make slavery legal again.(under the auspices that it is a "states' rights" issue).
No, conservatives don't advocate abolishing the amendments. Where the hell did you get that from? It must be a very very small ultra radical group if it exists. All that TRUE conservatives want is adherence to the Constitution and Bill Of Rights, something this country has been increasingly violating as each passing administration goes. BTW, republicans aren't conservatives, they pretend they are but they violate the constitution even more than the democrats...
"to restore our government to its Constitutional limits and our law to its Biblical foundations."
This is the party goal of the Constitution Party..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Party_(United_States)
The fact that their one goal, alone, violates the first amendment is what worries me about all these people invoking the constitution for everything.
I encourage you to go ahead and read about their history and their influence on both the GOP, Libertarian Party, and Tea Party narratives.
I actually thought they'd appeal to me, also, until I looked up what they were for.
Thanks for taking your time to enlighten me. I’ll probably be making a little more sense in the future.
Do you think most people actually fit into these categories?
Most of the people I know don’t claim to be anything, but will say they tend to lean one way or the other. More often than not their behavior speaks to what they are.
Fox and right wing media fanatics are exceptions.
"Do you think most people actually fit into these categories?"
It depends. Now that I think about it, the right-wing attacks on the separation of church and state would, in fact, make them radical though.
Then again, it can be an imagined place in history..
If most older conservatives were given a choice to return to a timespan in their lifetime, though, I'd imagine it would be while under much more progressive administrations. This is something we need to remind them of. Explain to them what Glass-Steagall is. Explain to them how progressive tax rates were in their younger and more blissful days.
The younger conservatives are just pompous twerps that feel enlightened by oversimplified revisionist views like Atlas Shrugged and Austrian Economics. It makes them feel like their privy to a secret history and are superior to the rest of us that actually aced our real history and economics classes.
Right-wing/left-wing puppet shows are the problem, not the solution. It's like pro-wrestling, it looks so real, but they aren't really hurting each other.
I am with you 100% on that
We have been divided with the left/right horse shit for about three decade. They have us bickering over Abortion, Guns, Gays, Pollution, etc.
While we are looking the other way both parties are cutting deals with the multinationals, doing insider trading, sending jobs to communist China, Etc
Right on, SoldOut! Politics-as-is is a charade. Fjolsvit too has their number. Pro-wrestling! That's perfect.
You should both check out www.breakcorporatepower.org Believe me, it's the only way we can break out of this crap.
Check it out and see for yourselves!
I like the idea in general, but it does seem like a simple solution to a complex problem and most of the time that doesn’t work.
Maybe if we were to factor in deeds that where beneficial to the 99% (or not) included with grass root donations.
Don’t forget the 1% has the marketing power to convince the 99% to donate to their candidates.
If this is your blog I thank you for your effort. If you want to discuss some modified version that maybe would set up additional criteria to make a politician more favorable I wouldn’t mind being involved in that.
Strange! While I was reading I saw "permalink" and read "PERMINDEX" google it with "Halliburton"
Wow, I have never heard of permindex. They sure are linked to a bunch of different things
Homie weren't born yesterday.
(-: LOL
Try Zapata Offshore. Oh, and you better believe I am playing with my life on this.
While often unhappy with Obama, I don't want any of those dingbats who took a Grover Norquist pledge never to allow the 1% to have a tax increase. Or those dingbats who want no estate tax so inherited wealth can increase its power even more. Or those dingbats who want to more air pollution and a return to rivers catching on fire.
What about the inheritance from middleclass families being taxed 40%?
Federal estate tax starts after $5 million now; if the Bush tax cuts expire, it starts after $1 million. I believe everyone expects that number to go back up.
Where is there a 40% inheritance tax? Federal is now 35%; would go to 55% if not changed (but I'll faint if it's not).
Are you talking about some state inheritance tax somewhere?
I was repeating a figure I heard in a cafe a year ago. I humbly retract.
I understand that there are estate taxes in some states that do hit the middle class, but that is also based on some vague thing I heard somewhere. That is why I asked.
Where I live, an estate tax of less than 6% kicks in after $2 million.
We are on the same page
Just because the left is trying to coopt the movement does not make them any less responsible for the damages done to our democracy over the last 100 years.
You are aware that the Democratic party was pretty nasty in the past right? Pro Slavery Pro Segregation Pro War
or is you history just left to the last 11 years? You don't have to be Einstein to read a damn history book once in a while, do you?
The Democrats are as bad as the GOP, both sides make you out to be a victim of either the Government or Corporations. Both offer to hold your hand while you fight their fight for them.
I have to agree with most of what you are saying. As far has history goes, read about the great depression and the 10 years leading up to it. I read a quick time line on the web recently. It was an eye opener and has a lot of parallels to today.
That was then and this is now.
I think that today both parties serve the 1%. All we get out of it is some social issue differences. When you start looking at what both parties actually do, nothing changes. It’s like the good cop bad cop routine that changes back and forth.
Had to google this comic to find it but the one on top explains so much, People so easily forget history, particularly during election years.
http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/90636
I have seen a few of these recently. I have to say I was a little surprised to see that the basic elements (power) are still really making the decisions. I didn't know they went that far back.
The federal Reserve was a major suspect long ago and nothing has changed
I think these people are what the whole OWS is about. Them and the politicians they control
I do appreciate you taking the time to look these up.
Obama supported the bail outs, the wars, increased our troops in afganistan to 100,000 more than bush ever had. He has killed 3 United States citizens without trial or due process. He was given more money by wallstreet in 2008 than any other candidate.
Sounds like a righties dream candidate
Is that all he did? Or is that just all you want to talk about?
Please send me the source of your facts so I can double check them.
google , obama goldman sachs donation, and a link to a cnn article saying they we're his second largest donor, of upwards of $900,000. All the major canidates in 2008, Hillary, McCain, Obama had identical voting records on the major issues of bailouts, patriot act, illegal wars etc. I believe Dennis Kuccinich is the only honest democrat in congress, and Ron Lawl the only republican.
I am beginning to see they all are a bunch of self-serving pricks. The party really doesn’t matter
I am still pissed about it being legal for those bastards to do insider trading
Are you trying to imply that all of the righties on this site that are spreading propaganda, creating deception and trying to tear down OWS for their sacred GOP, are actually causing people to understand who the 99%'s enemy really is?
Some of these right wing flat screen warriors are so dense, they don't get it.
It is obvious that they have taken over this site and are trying to destroy the OWS movement
Do they really think anybody in their right mind would vote for the party that they are doing this for. (The GOP) -------- They apparently think most Americans are as stupid as them
All we need is an alternative forum.
One where it's only public to those that attend OWS by handing out cards with pre-made, changeable, usernames and passwords.
We will not get anything done with all the Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly fans rushing to their computers to spread hate..
If their fans attend the occupations, then they'll get one of the cards.
I have wondered if something like that is already happening.
I don't see much of what I think of as an open and honest dialogue about OWS going on.
Although the right wing harassment and ignorance is annoying, we do have an opportunity to expose it for what it is.
The more they can’t back their bullshit, the more people know who the enemy is. I think in the long run it strengthens us against the 1% who they obviously side with.
I think we may need to find a webmaster to create one..
Imagine if every time you get a reply, it's a constructive criticism and if every time we take a vote, it isn't ambushed by them and if every post you read is thoughtful and non-offensive.
We could really pick up and start moving.
That would be interesting. A site where all the members actually where trying to advance the movement! Maybe one day.
Perhaps we should think about that for a second. While it sounds good on the surface, wouldn't that just cut off the rest of the 99% from this site? OWS has sadly (I support your aims completely) lost most of its public support, and can't afford to lose more of it. If there's a private way for participants to organize, then that's fine. If there are conversations that would benefit the majorities, let the 1% and their puppets troll, whichever side of the government they're from. The more of their motives and real selves they show, the less we support them and the more we ignore them.
I agree for the most part. I think what this sight is currently doing is a good thing, in spite of it being over ran by those who want to destroy it.
I also can see the value of another site that allows semi private dialogue. It would be foolish to not realize this site is under attack. The people that are behind attacking it aren’t discussing their strategy on this site in public.
In the real world business is not conducted in public. A little privacy is required to develop some strategies and do a little team work and brain storming. I don’t know if that is happening but it would be something I would think would be positive.
Yeah, there should be a site like that, allowing for strategy and planning perhaps some chatting. The trick would be to let enough people in so as to keep ideas flowing, but only those who wouldn't attack the site. As to how, I don't know, but you're right.
No soldout Obama is the enemy HE bailed out wall street. HE got more money from from wall street than anyother president in modern history
Bush and the GOP bailed out wall street first. I guess it was a good idea then? When Obama does it's a bad idea. I see how you think.
So which party got the most money from Wall street from 1990 to 2012? Go to this link you might be surprised. I was
http://dqydj.net/occupy-wall-street-follow-the-money-to-see-which-political-party-benefits/
.
i hate bush as much as anyone. you should know who ur talking to
Did you go to the link?
Obama is not the problem. That's like saying one cancer cell is worse is than the other. He is just more of the same cancer.
They are all serving the one percent (their peers). There is nobody lined up to take office that is any different than what we have had for decades
I agree but I think Ron Paul would be the closest to what we need. But you are right in saying obama is not the real problem he has enough to blame but it is all the republicans and dems.
Not ALL of the GOP wants to destroy OWS. One of them actually wants to take down the bankers. Obama sure as hell doesn't. He voted for the bailout, and has a cabinet full of Goldman-Sachs people. The antithesis of OWS.
As much as people are trying to make this about politcal parties, it's not.
The more I learn, the more I dislike both parties. I am starting to see how they are both serving the the 1% regardless of what they say. They only pretend to be serving the 99% interest.
If OWS had to choose.. I think they'd choose Obama as much more the enemy to fear--- the one who benefits more from Wall Street and has bailed out Wall Street even more than the GOP. The hard part changing one's views after being so emotionally engaged with Obama who campaigned on real reform and change is that identifying the 'good guy,' and 'bad guy,' psyche we all have becomes all the more hazy. Obama's actions who line up more with neo-conservatives as they even admit when not campaigning creates a dissonance in our minds.
Top 20 recepients of Wall Street funds: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=F07&cycle=All&recipdetail=M&sortorder=U
You want to beleive what you think!----- Believe what you know!
Most OWS supporters will vote against those who attack and try to destroy them.(just my crazy ass abstract opinion)
President Obama is in bed with Wall Street since he bailed them all out. Because of Obama, the big mighty corporation of GE paid no taxes. They made 14.2 billion in profits last year and got back 3.2 billion from the tax payers.
I don't mind you pointing the finger at Obama as long as you are also pointing it at the rest of the crooks. Otherwise you are just campaigning against him for the crooks in the opposition party
Look at what the last GOP president did in his eight years. Neither party is working for the 99% they are both liars and self-serving One Percenters
I agree, it isn't just Obama. It's both parties. Both parties are bought and paid for.
I am hoping that the OWS movement is going to be an awakening to the politicians.
They need to start working on some 99% based legislation.
They need to put America and the 99% before themselves and their 1% peers
And least create a new lie that might get them elected/re-elected (-:
We, the right wing, love, LOVE, WE LOVE Ows! We love them because they they put all that is the worst in America out on on display for all to see, and the Demicraps and Obama embrace them. They: smell, are dirty, are lazy, are stupid, are unemployed, live like rats, and engage in criminal behavior including murder, rape, drug use, public sex, public defecation, and hold themselves out to be better than others. They are huge jokes, and make us laugh. they are soul food for trolls. They are god's (little g) gift to man, just short of an exquisite Seinfeld episode. They are marble rye on a cold winter's night.
Huh, huh, huh, yep dem, liberals are stoopid, huh,huh
You are so smart and funny. huh,huh
You truly personify the "righty". Christ they are all as stupid as you!
It's comments like this, hateful and untrue, which is why people stayed away from all of you and the End The Fed actions. So where did it get you ? We really needed the right wing to develope the End The Fed into a movement, standing side by side with OWS: but there are so many people of your mindset, hateful and intolerant; that few could be around you. As a result the EndTheFed movement never took off, and now all of you are here; hiding out, and far from being an asset in this life and death struggle with the tyrants. Your comment is trite, hollow and mean spirited. I'm guessing that is the extent of your contribution during this historical moment.
Not all people who want to end the FED are a name calling bullies. Why would anyone who is not a shareholder in the private federal reserve want more devaluation of their currency and unending financial crises? Bring back Jimmy Carter! Malaise forever!
That's absolutely true, not all are. However I can tell you that on YT comments I received multiple threats from ETF people when I said I supported OWS. I actually support OWS/ETF but it didn't seem to matter. No OWS people ever threatened me, online or off. Right wingers have enough haters and intolerance, that you don't want to be around them, even if you're for ending the fed. That's why no one came to their actions; narrow minded, hateful and intolerant...not all..but enough... enough to kill any capacity for a movement.
just remember that people are more likely to post a nasty comment on something they disagree with then to go out of their way to say something nice. Don't let the critics get you down.
some of the best advice I ever got growing up is when I was told 'Consider the source of your frustrations, then decide if it is worth getting upset'
Thanks, but I'm not concerned about getting upset; I just wanted to emphasize why the EndTheFed people couldn't get their movement past a few small protests; because so many of them are unpleasant people that no one wants to be subjected to.
I totally understand. I'm a Christian, but I was recently around a bunch of bible belt protestants who we're so judgmental and close minded that I wanted to totally rebel against everything they said because of the magnitude of their hypocrisy. It sucks that personally I closely identify with ows but the majority of people who represent my belief in limited gov. are such petty vulgar people.
We fucking don't! We keep loudly speaking out against him every goddamned day and you refuse to listen...either that or you see that and you post this crap anyway to make it look like OWS supports obama. In the tea party, there were plenty of people that would have voted for bush and did so in the last elections. Why the double standard when it comes to OWS? We can't tell thousands of people not to vote for one person or kick the ones out that do want to still vote for them, thats not our call to make. Come off of this already!
I can only state what I have seen in my local Occupy, (which is not New York) and there is a lot of support for Obama. They are welcoming MoveOn with open arms, and blaming the Republicans for every lousy thing Obama has done. Sad.
I'm sure. Got any real proof of that besides typing this up from a computer?
The blaming the Republicans comments have been in face to face conversations I've had. The welcoming MoveOn sentiments can be seen in various posts on the Facebook pages:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Albuquerque-Official-Burque/131057133662928?notif_t=page_name_change
Most recently,earlier today, see the FB comments in response to a post on someone's blog entitled:
"Rally for jobs reveals emerging attempt to direct Occupy movement"
I don't know how to link to particular FB posts - or maybe I can't without logging in to FB, ( which I don't do.)
I hope that this is an anomaly. I know you started that awesome petition, and I am glad if your experience has been different. It looks like a lost cause here however.
You do know that OWS struck back pretty hard at them for doing so, with several petitions (including my own) that asked them to leave if they continued to do so right? Moveon.org involvement has actually gone down significantly since then. And if they start pulling that bs again, we will start petitions again. Its that simple.
I'm glad you had success. Unfortunately, most of the people locally are happy to join with MoveOn. Maybe it varies from place to place. I've raised the issue but either they don't see the danger, or don't care.
Well then keep at it. America has to drop its "One and done" mentality. If its a good point, then you need to do what the right wingers do and keep repeating it over and over again.
You're right moe. Thanks for the encouragement. I'll keep speaking up instead of giving up.
Let it never be said that you never got up after you got knocked down. Thats what I have learned to appreciate about OWS.
like yes we can?
Exactly! Or drill baby drill. Or "the economy is strong" or "Nineaseptembereleventh!" Etc etc.
The real question is, "What choice do we have when the public doesn't like any of them?'
If the public still isnt motivated enough to start creating their own parties, they prob never will be.
Look at the alternatives. Big money Romney? Buy my books Gingrich? Those other nut-buckets? It won't happen this cycle, but in 5 years I'm hoping for a credible 3rd party candidate that hasn't been tainted by 1% graft.
Obama -Buy my 5 books , three of which are all about me, three autobiographies before I did anything Gingrich-Buy my 25 books, mostly about history as my masters & PhD in history & was a history professor.
Obama-Perpetual campaigner, without any leadership abilities, who is clearly leaving an entire year between now and Nov 2012 without getting done about economy & jobs Romney- "Big Money Romney" $32,605,827 Obama- $99,597,681- Bigger money than all other candidates put together Obama has been in office just shy of 3 years. 112 congress, in power for 11 months, leaving Obama 2 years to address economy and jobs with a democratic congress and senate.
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/11-reasons-why-occupy-wall-street-protesters-are-hypocrites-if-they-do-not-call-for-barack-obama-to-resign
You would not vote republican if Lincoln came back to life and you know it. What about "buy my books" Obama? what did he do prior to becoming president? no one really knows as his records are hidden. What has done to the country so far? 9% unemployment and $4 per gallon gas. put us in more conflicts and constant berating of the American way. He is as qualified for the job as i am, he just got because of affirmative action and political correctness.
I would vote for Lincoln. I did vote for Reagan. But this class of Rep candidates is an embarrassment. Romney is probably the best qualified, but he doesn't represent 99%; he IS 1%. And btw - your affirmative action comment is offensive.
First black President, credit rating drops. THAT'S offensive.
You can blame that one on tea party shinanigans. That and the folks that want him out so bad that they are actively trying to keep things bad past the election.
When you are in the election booth, ask yourself, are things better than they were 4 years ago?
Better than the Bush years? Hell yes. Good enough? Hell no.
Hi coolnyc, Agree. You have made some good points. Best Regards, Nevada
Lie like a rug Obama. Joe Biden the Retard. Nancy Pass the bill so you can see what's in it Pelosi. Yeah right.
Really people, he sold you out!!!
You are welcome to that point of view if you like, I prefer to keep an open mind on this issue. I do realize there are a number of issues that people take exception to regarding the President's advocacy on our behalf, many of them rightly so.
Few consider that had McCain been elected we would most certainly have had boots on the ground in the former soviet satellite Georgia. Few consider that we would have had troops in Libya by the Battalion, rather than a NATO led mission.
Some debate the merits of supporting the rebels in Libya at all.
There are other issues as well. I understand that - and some of them I even tend to agree do seem to be errors in matters of policy.
I think much of what the President has done that I do disagree with is the result of repelican influence on Congress.
I think he is waiting for the people to lead.
So please, by all means. I'm right beside you.
The Libya action was illegal, no congressional approval. Even as bad as Bush was, at least he followed the law when it came to military action, specifically the War Powers Act, Obummer has skirted the law or blatantly disregarded it on several occasions.
so lets see - you think it is better to follow the law and deceive the people with massive lies like
WMD
and then out an intelligence officer in service to the CIA when her husband says that Iraq clearly does not have WMD - and with that outing destroy two careers, drag their good names through the mud, and violate the law in the process . . . .
Not to mention the cultural blinders that were firmly in place as those decision makers set about implementing a policy that had at its heart the aspiration of occupation - 50 year occupation - of a sovereign nation with large oil reserves . . .
Where in consequence we conducted war for . . . 10 years?
All of that - to you - sounds much better - than the support of a freedom movement among the Libyan people who faced certain genocide at the hands of kackah-dophy - and in so doing let the Europeans shoulder most of the burden . . .
The Europeans of course had little choice in the matter - overwhelming waves of immigrants fleeing kackah-dophy's army threatened instability throughout Europe on a massive scale.
You must be a repelican. Only a repelican would compare Bush and President Obama and somehow come out with a move favorable view of Bush.
That's just bushite.
We need to get past this whole my team v your team thing and seriously get pragmatic.
deceit or not, Bush sucks ass but at least he followed the War Powers Act.
Stop making excuses for the Teleprompter of the United States.
No excuses, just stating my point of view.
Vote for who you like - but do not attempt to shame me for doing likewise. I've been watching these people for a while, and have given careful consideration to the facts that are available to me.
The republican congress has been in power for 11 months, Obama has been president just shy of 3 years, so are you saying the you liked every thing Obama had done up 11 months ago?
OH, not at all. I presume that these things I haven't liked are a result of the weight of repelican corruption of our political process.
Whether that perception is correct or not, time will tell.
What is abundantly clear, is that the lies of the repelican party are hard on their heels . . .
Lies like: there is no global warming
torture of suspects in U.S. custody is legal U.S. policy
ending Bushite tax cuts is a new tax . . .
privatization of social security will enhance grandma's security
corporations have tongues
These and other such lies are so obvious, and so diametrically opposed to the will of the people, that I say, the repelican party even now, sits poised before the brink of oblivion - and they somehow remain oblivious.
These lies are hard on their heels,
and so am I . . .
arRROOoo
Obama is another empty suit. Another career politician full of smoke and lies. Not that the Republican candidates are any better. They all suck. They're all part of the 1% and at the end of the day they don't give a shit about the rest of us.
because the republicans are shit.
It makes me sad when I see people on here that support OWS but are also supporting Obama. He is an agent for Wall street pure and simple. Everything that I can think that he has done has been for the benefit of the corporate elite and it doesnt matter how much evidence you give them they still support him. One could almost see correlations between their denial of Obamas complete subservience to Wall street and people who think Global warming is some sort of a conspiracy perpetrated by socialist scientists.
I am a Republican and I support what the OWS movement people are doing. The fact that something is seriously wrong with this country should be evident to anyone who still has a molecule of functioning brain matter left. Peaceful protests are crucial to awaken people and bring us together to initiate change.
The media, and I mean the WHOLE media has distorted the truth and has so pitted us against one another that real change will never occur until we are able to all come together and form some sort of consensus as to how to fix our problems. Obviously Washington is broken and nothing substantial can be accomplished in the current system.
I don't care if someone disagrees with me, that's the whole point of a free society. But the talking heads and so called pundits have in the last several years made screaming at each other and shouting down other view points seem common and accepted. Nothing will be resolved as long as folks refuse to simply LISTEN to one another and ALLOW the opposition respect.
I don't have the answers, but maybe term limits would be a good place to start. Perhaps then we could root out the entrenched fat cats who feed on our current system and rotate in people who really have a passion for our founding principals. Until then, I say "Occupy!"
Good post.
I think we might agree that the OWS movement is bigger that the political parties.
I am finding myself putting all politicians into the same category of serving the 1% over the 99%.
That's news to me. It probably is true that most OWS supporters voted for Obama, but they are also profoundly disappointed. I think at this point many OWSers will not vote, at least not for President and for many they aren't particularly enthusiastic about lower down on the ticket either. Some OWSers will probably vote for a tiny third party like the Greens or the Socialists. A very few might even vote Republican. Many will undoubtedly vote for Obama again, not because they are especially enthusiatic about him, but because they see no alternative from their point of view and they don't know what else to do.
There are many barriers to 3rd party candidates that can be taken down, but Democrats and Republicans alike will protest their political monopoly and factioning will scare voters.
It is probably best to focus on the legislative (change congress) and local elections.
If you don'!t vote for Obama then your voting for the gob. Have you been watching what they are doing? The gob has just vote down us building high speedrails. Even Chaina has high speedrail. And if you vote for a write in your just throwing your vote away. We need to make every vote count. I voted for Obama last time & he REALLY pissed me off for the last 3 years. But it seems like he just found some balls. So hopefully he will stay that ballsy President that we need. But nov 2012 is still far way for things to change.
They voted down high speed rails b/c Amtrack is already a money losing pit and it's not the government but the private sector's job to invest and create systems like that.
Of all the GOP candidates out there the only one I would even slightly consider voting for would be Ron Lawl… BUT, like that old man at the coffee shop that plays chess while sipping tea, about 25% of the things Ron say's are brilliant, but when you hear the other %75, you smile and realize, like the old man, he's insane.
The rest of the GOP bunch are simple throw-backs to the old "Sound Bite" politicians of the 70's 80's, will say anything if it sounds good and gets them a few more votes, absolutely can't be trusted.
Obama, talks a good game, but only delivers a small percent. I'm going to go with that small percent as opposed to what the others offer.
If you love killing innocent people overseas, you have found your guy
Which one? Obama? Clinton? W? HW Bush? Reagan? Nixon? Ford? LBJ? We have a plethora of presidents to choose from who seemingly enjoyed massacring masses around the globe
I'd put the ration at 5% to 95%. End the Wars NOW.
I'm for BHO - for exactly the same reason
If I had ro pick an R - check out Buddy Roemer http://www.buddyroemer.com/
Running for senate - what do you think of Elizabeth Warren?
I don't support people. I support positions that are in line with my thinking. If someone from a different party, or no party at all, went up against Obama and was in line with my thinking, I would vote for them. Even if they did not have a chance of winning.
Ron Waul is a joke just like he always has been pullezze ! :)
I support and oppose OPP for president.
Barack Obama got more money from wall street than anyother president and modern history. People he is the enemy not the dumbass republicans. We need RonPaul, but hea a republican? yes he is running as a republican and using their machine.
Give facts to support your opinion please. How did he sell us out?
Tell them obama's being bankrolled by wall street! So, is mitt romney, too!
Why are we not talking about who we would like to see sit as president...Native Office 2012!!!
You've had Obama and the Democrats and how much good have they done you? Stop dreaming! The only difference is, Democrats kiss you before they screw you.
Campaign Finance Reform is key to everything OWS is about. If we have a Congress where both parties have sold out to the 1%, how can the 99% ever get represented?
But there's a catch. A classic Catch 22. We the 99% can't get anywhere without campaign reform. But any campaign reform bill has to be passed by members of congress, and members can't get elected unless they take corporate money (93% of elections are won by the candidate who spends the most).
There's only one way to break out of this dilemma, and you can read about it at: www.breakcorporatepower.org
Check it out and see for yourselves!
Obama is a socialist.
History has shown that socialism leads to totalitarianism. History repeats itself.
Please read more.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/freedom-to-protest-imperiled-by-obama-occupier-ale/
Why do you give a sh-t? Hmm, lets weigh this out... Democrat or Republican?
Democrat or Republ.Can? Democrat or Repub..Can? Democrat or Repu...COn? Democrat or Rep....CON?
Democrat or Re.....CON?
Democrat or R......CON? Democrat or ......CON?
Basically what sold out says. It's called strategic voting. We might not like Obama that much anymore, but we'd rather have him than some generic republican
I don't support Obama. I'll help throw him out!
Obama has been Bush's 3rd term.
I'm sorry.
I didn't notice any Obama campaign signs at the marches.
Care to post some truth?
Woah...OWS hates censorship right? Why does Ron P A U L, when typed normally, come out to Ron Lawl?
Because for over two months his minions have been typing his name all over place.
Give it a rest!
We know who you mean.
What? Do you get paid for posting the name or something?
Its the elites on the right and the left that are taking this nation down. Both Republican and Democrat elites support military adventurism (Ron P A U L doesn't) http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-17/asia/world_asia_australia-obama-trip_1_military-expansion-asia-pacific-top-priority?_s=PM:ASIA (This is just the latest, Obama has been expanding our military for quite some time)
The Justice Department, under Obama, sharply steps up raids on medical marijuana in California (Both Republican and Democrat elites support this, Ron P A U L wants to legalize marijuana) http://norml.org/news/2011/10/13/department-of-justice-announces-stepped-up-enforcement-efforts-targeting-california-medical-cannabis-providers
Obama and his bailouts http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/ Again, both the left and right favor bailouts (Ron P A U L NEVER has)
Obama is Bush 2.0
and some more on this Washington Wall Street collusion |> SUPER COMMITTEE BIG BANK ROBBERY and “this sucker” going down http://abusalmandeyauddeeneberle.wordpress.com/super-committee-big-bank-robbery-and-this-sucker-going-down/
|> Terrorism by Economic Collapse, debt bondage, money as debt on interest, etc >
http://terrorismbreedsterrorism.wordpress.com/terrorism-topics/terrorism-by-economic-collapse/
|>Derivatives ‘Mother of All Bubbles’ exploding >
http://inlightofrecentevents.wordpress.com/derivatives-%E2%80%98mother-of-all-bubbles%E2%80%99-exploding/
|> Super rich 1% vs 99 %; Terrorism Cycle: Guillotines: Occupy “ALL” streets >
http://inlightofrecentevents.wordpress.com/derivatives-%E2%80%98mother-of-all-bubbles%E2%80%99-exploding/
SUPER COMMITTEE BIG BANK ROBBERY and “this sucker” going down http://abusalmandeyauddeeneberle.wordpress.com/super-committee-big-bank-robbery-and-this-sucker-going-down/ Terrorism by Economic Collapse, debt bondage, money as debt on interest, etc http://terrorismbreedsterrorism.wordpress.com/terr...
obama is part of the problem, co opted
And
Hedge Hogs; Gold Man’s Sacks; “financial terrorist attacks;” and the Obama sellout:
http://abusalmandeyauddeeneberle.wordpress.com/hedge-hogs-gold-man%E2%80%99s-sacks-%E2%80%9Cfinancial-terrorist-attacks%E2%80%9D-and-the-obama-sellout/
agreed, obama is a problem we have to solve.
obama is part of the problem. please do not post this bs, we do not want to hear any more about obama.
http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?p=obama+is+a+corporate+tool
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=270907&mesg_id=270907
http://www.blackcommentator.com/271/271_kir_obama_tool_us_imperialism_printer_friendly.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VthTqvV0WrI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCRnkamitVk&feature=related
obama is an oligarch. obama is 50 new nuclear plants. obama is a health care law built for the corporations and against the people. obama is denial of kyoto protocol. obama is two new wars. obama is Bush continuation. obama is corrupt. obama is ignorant. obama is the enemy of the people.
+++++++++
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Divide and rule is a time-honored strategy for keeping people, and empires, under the thumb of their rulers. In our so-called ‘democracies’ divide-and-rule is accomplished by means of political parties. The parties claim to support differing policies, and people believe they are participating in democracy by supporting the party whose policy most closely matches their own sentiments. Once in power however, there is little to distinguish the parties. All major parties are beholden to the same wealthy elites, and the big decisions are always made in their interests. The main difference between the parties is in the rhetoric spouted by their elected officials. The ones on the left talk about human rights, while the ones on the right talk about national pride, but in both cases those are just words designed to justify policies made for other reasons. Bill Clinton, supposedly on the left, pushed through NAFTA, which is as right-wing and pro-corporation as you can get. George Bush, supposedly on the right, has done more to destroy the strength and reputation of America than any previous President. As a consequence of this divide-and-rule strategy, people blame one another for the failures of society. Those on the left think the right-wingers are controlling the government, while those on the right think it’s the liberals / left-wingers. The people squabble among themselves and never look behind the curtain to see who’s really running things. So-called ‘public debate’, where irrelevant left-vs-right arguments are presented in the media, acts as a smokescreen, so that even the curtain is hidden from us. Obama is an agent of the international banking cartel and corporations, the salesman of them.
They are too blind to see. They are bias and close minded, and they don't even know it.
I made a couple of posters for OWS. If you like them share them. If you have advice for me shoot me a message.
http://www.thepixelbar.com/pixel-journal/2011/11/21/ows.html
Keep fighting the good fight everybody.
I'm glad those aren't modeled after old Soviet Communist propaganda posters like most of the others are.... Whoever is making those posters modeled after the old USSR propaganda posters is a sick individual.
OWS posters: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c60bf53ef0162fc7a8315970d-600wi
http://altnewsreport.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/dayofragesocialist-poster.jpg?w=500&h=680
Commie posters: http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/quazen/2008/05/18/163850_1.jpg
http://www.communisme-bolchevisme.net/images/urss_soviet_poster_66.jpg
http://imagecache6.allposters.com/LRG//16/1655/6GXGD00Z.jpg
http://sovietunion-dylan.wikispaces.com/file/view/17-216.jpg/113564221/17-216.jpg
Forum Post: "Why do so many OWS people support Obama?"
Because you are all DUMBASSES!
Whats the alternative, vote Republican and commit suicide.....
** In what way were we "sold out?"
** Ever consider the tidal wave of Republicans in Congress bent on sabotaging and destroying any Democratic and White House initiatives, legislation, judicial appointments, and other appointments???
The right never has had 2/3rds, all he had to do was veto. He sold you out.
Keep dishing out the Kool Aid.
Republicans had nearly a decade of control over (1) White House, (2) Senate, and (3) House.
Now, since 2010, with a House of so-called "Representatives" led by the GOP, they have managed to block appointments, legislation, and other governmental functions in the hope and expectation that that the damage they cause will reflect badly on someone who has been in office for less than one-term.
Wake up.
You need to Wake Up and go look up some history, DEMOCRATS have controlled Congress since 2006, they controlled BOTH the house and the Senate up until last November. Democrats approved ALL corporate and bank bail outs since the economic downturn started. After 2008 DEMOCRATS controlled the House, Senate and the White House. The 2010 election ONLY gave Republicans control over the House while the Democrats STILL control the Senate and the White House. Who holds and still holds the majority of power, DEMOCRATS. YOU need to wake up already.
Here is some help for you, looks like you need it. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/
Well for starters, why would anyone support a party whose candidates think the protesters that are simply exercising their constitutional rights should, "Just get a job, after you take a bath". These types of comments don't garner support, where I'm from.
Gingrich made the "Just get a job, after you take a bath" remark, suggesting that protesters are lazy. Obama came right out and called Americans lazy. Do people in OWS believe that he really didn't mean it or he couldn't possibly be including OWS protesters in his remarks? He's blamed every thing and everyone for his failed policies:
The Tea Party - Political gridlock - ATM machines - Republicans - Paul Ryan - Eric Cantor - John Boehner - The Tsunami in Japan - Greece - Italy - Too little government spending - Too few taxes - The debt debate - George W. Bush - Standard and Poor's - Wealthy people who want to keep what they earned - Oil companies - Ireland - Portugal - The War in Iraq - The War in Afghanistan - The heat wave in the midwest - Health care costs - A lack of government subsidized green energy - Math errors - Corporate jet owners - The Gulf oil spill - Millionaires and billionaires - Rich fat cats - Wall Street - Hedge fund managers - Some car that can't get out of the ditch - The debt limit - Congress and their resistance to spending more on stimulus programs - Vacationing in Las Vegas - The American form of representative democracy - People who don't eat their peas
Calling Americans "lazy" , blaming everyone and everything for the economy and not taking responsibility for his policies, don't garner support where I'm from.
We don't.
Cannot say I do. I think he's an empty suit at best.
Im pretty sure OWS in general doesnt support the current corrupt administration
Obama, like Bloomberg, and the political whorehouse that is Faux Noos, is a shill for the 1%.
I'd never vote for a republican or democrat again.
do yor really want more wars? illegal abortions? safety net cuts? more scalias? I am very pissed at what BHO has not done - but I'm not crazy enough to put America into the hands of Grover + Ruppert + Mitt + Newt
There's ZERO difference. You're deluded if you think otherwise. As long as the corporations rule the country, whoever is in power will cater to their interests regardless of Party affliation. That's why we need a revolution.
the American Civil War totaled almost 2,000,000 deaths and casualties with promitive weapons and a national population of 31,000,000
Scaling to today, 20,000,000 casualties. Then consider that Lincoln's and davis;s forces were roughly comparable. Not true today. Estimate 40,000,000 to 60,000,000 American casualties.
Didn't georgie and dicky teach you - war is not the answer. And what do you think would happen - economically - in the rest of the world - with America killing itself.
THER ARE OTHER OPTIONS
Why do you care?
I absolutely support your right to cast your vote as you will. As for myself, I'm voting for President Obama.
GOBama!!
GoWars!!
I could point out that as Candidate, our current President reshaped U.S. foreign policy regarding Iraq simply by stating that as President he would pull us out of Iraq in 16 months - I think it actually took about 18, but whatever.
I could point out that his statement as candidate did two things - both of them almost overnight: a) he gave voice to the aspirations of the Iraqi people, providing them a platform for those aspirations in a way no other American could do - with exception of the other candidates for office of course. b) Bush changed course and admitted the possibility of a time line for withdrawal from Iraq.
I could point out that if McCain had become President, we would have had full fledged invasions into both Georgia, and Libya.
But I'll just sit here and support your right to vote for whomever you will.
I will point out that Obama's drone strikes have killed hundreds of innocent people. That's all I need to point out.
confession time - i am a liberal - proigressive - democrat -
i hate voting for the lesser of two evils
i do not understand why BHO did not FIGHT like AL, TR. FDR
for what we so desperately need - why didn't he go to the wall -
shut it down months ago when he could -
and let grover and paul and ruppert suffer ?
i'm sure there are some of you who "know" why
I DONT CARE one poster posted that Kagen = Scalia
just look at the history of their votes
DO YOU WANT ANOTHER SCALIA ???
Do you remember Ralph insisting that there was no difference -
between Bush & Gore
ask the 100,000 dead in Iraq!
I will vote for the lesser of two evils -
because WE MUST ! ................................................. peace, brother
Or ask any of the innocent people that have been killed in the 7 nations BO is bombing.
Ralph was right.
you SERIOUSLY believe Gore would have attacked Iraq?????????????
Well, if you had told me that Obama would be bombing 7 different nations during his campaign, I would have told you were full of shit. I can only assume the same for Gore.
and I assume for you
not following you
Obama didn't fight for you because he knows he doesn't have to in order to get your vote. You do not have to vote for someone who sells you out. So long as you continue to do so, you will continue to get screwed.
I hope the 'lesser of two evils' voters will find enough self-respect to say 'hell no, I will no longer support someone who does not support me.' Then, and only then, will you see change.
Another way you might appreciate (and you mention primaries in another comment below): http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/change/science_egalitarians.html "This document first explains why third parties cannot work in the United States. Then it explains how and why it would now be possible to transform the Democratic Party into a nationwide liberal-labor-left coalition, thanks to the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, which forced the southern white racists who previously controlled the party into the Republican Party."
Progressives can win Democratic primaries with enough support. Then they can win against Republicans. It's similar to what the Tea Party did with taking over part of the Republican party.
how did "we" end the Vietnam war? we did not!
how did "we" end segregated schools? we did not!
how did "we" end prohibitioin? we did not!
VOTES DID IT ! non-votes did nothing !
I didn't say don't vote. I say let your refusal to vote for a candidate who has sold you out be known early and loudly, rather than expressing meek resignation to vote for the the lesser of two evils. If the Dems could see clearly that the party faithful would not turn out to vote for more of the same, they would run another candidate.
Work within your local primaries to get other candidates from your party. Consider voting for a third party or independent candidate. Yes, vote, even if you have to write in the name of someone. That sends a message that yes, you DO vote, and you are paying attention, but you will not support more of the same. When enough people do that, things will change. Until enough people do that, all the protest marches are for naught.
I dont totally agree or disagree - but here is an alternative -
you are a congress person from _
you get 100 letters a day for a year from your constituents stating that if you dont vote for killing Citizens United, they wont vote for you. WHAT DO YOU DO? I think this is a farmore powerful - and organizable technique
I agree with you that such a letter campaign could be effective, - IF - citizens make good on their word about their votes. The worst thing to do to talk tough and not follow it up with your vote.
Which side is going to screw us worst is the number one question we should ask ourselves?
That's the way they want you to think. How's that working out for ya?
the times were probably different back then so compromises were easier. now, it is hard to voice differences so everyone is divided into three factions.
Sorry to answer with a simple question. What is the alternative?
I dont support obama. Nader all the. What choice do we have the republican freak show
Obama is a socialist fuck him
Perhaps because his supporters have low intelligence?
Obama is a CIA-connected, big-money funded, Wall Street-friendly, Bilderberger-certified MSM-installed teleprompter-reader.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Obama-worked-for-the-CIA-by-Josh-Mitteldorf-091222-13.html
Because they're stupid.
It's quite sad indeed, and its EXACT proof that OWS is owned by the OREO himself.
IMHO OWS is a CIA/NSA just like arab-spring, OREO-OBAMA brings OWS into fruition so that 'others' can talk liberalism, and then he can be a hawk and promote IRAN war for Israel. Brilliant.
The CIA/NSA doesn't give a fuck what its doing as long as it gets to mind-fuck and kill, so its happy playing the presidents game.
Yes, OREO-OBAMA sold the USA out the biggest crook on wall-st DIMON just stole 1/2B$ from the rich and OREO still supports his patron.
Let's remember this CHICAGO is the CME the mercantile exchange, and they put OREO in power. There are essentially only 3 powers in the USA OIL ( bush ), wall-st ( CLinton ), and CME ( oreo ). Everybody that controls the USA gets his turn to loot and plunder.
THE OREO is our president and he's about as much a liberal as Rush Limbaugh, he's black on the outside, but GW-BUSH on the inside, and that why I keep calling him an OREO.
Yes, why in the HELL does OWS support this asshole? Because the US government controls the OWS, everytime there is a left&right battle the US always plays both sides against each other, they always plan, and they always control. They always have and always will.
Why do I say that OWS is CIA? Because they LOG IP's and use internet sites like facebook and twitter worldwide which are just fronts for NSA data logging. If OWS was really ran by anarchists, everything would be anonymous.
Obama is a neo liberal
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Not only that Mitt Romney and Obama are both financed by Wall street.
Obummer stands for everything you protest and detest, his actions prove that, Wall St. has it's dick so far up his ass he sneezes George Sorros' semen!!!
Yet many of you still support him.
Fucking hypocrites.
OWS realizes that the left/right duopoly is just a show...If anyone thinks that any OWS person sides with either party or is supporting anyone particular "leader"..You'd be sadly mistaken..
No one in OWS could support anyone in the current system...They represent the more animalistic side of human nature..No one in OWS could support it...
I hear ya! Don't they know how much blood this man has on his hands?
Because OWS is made up of mostly douche bags.
They are in denial.
Let's see. Maybe it's because the majority of OWS are morons. Did you hear them in interview at park by Samantha from Jon Stewart Show?
Google it. It's the funniest thing you'll see. These people are total spazes. Effing retards. I was LMAO listening to their answers. Dumber than dirt. Watch it. Link below.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/the-daily-show-reveals-that-zuccotti-park-had-its
Oh, did they interview the majority of them? Amazing, that must have taken ages.
I've been there and it really doesn't matter. They're pretty much all the same. Not a clue. What can you expect of people who crap and piss on the sidewalk and in people's doorways?
Fool
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OWS is run by obama, the head community agitator. OWS is a far left movement driven by ultra liberal and "progressive" ideologues. Hence the constant noise about "Koch Bros", "Fox News", "Palestinian rights" and antisemitism.
They will all dutifully vote for obama in. 2012 as they did in 2008.