Forum Post: Why are we Fighting in Iraq & Afghanistan?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 25, 2011, 1:50 p.m. EST by 666isMONEY
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During the Vietnam war there was a song by Country Joe & the Fish (he sang it at Woodstock) called, "The Fixing to Die Rag," the chorus went like this: "And it's, 1, 2, 3, what are we fighting for / Don't ask me, I don't give a damn / Next stop is Vietnam."
President Bush said it was because Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be a lie. He also said we had to go into Afghanistan to get the Boogy-Man Osama Bin Laden, who was allegedly responsible for 9-11. (I believe 911 was a set-up or False Flag to get U$A into war.)
So what do U think the real reasons for Iraq & Afghanistan were?
Me: I think we went into Afghanistan for minerals recently discovered there, an oil pipeline and because, after we lost Vietnam and the Golden Triangle, Heroin production moved to Mexico but then Afghanistan.
Iraq was a war for Israel & oil. May also have been because Saddam wanted to trade oil in Euros instead of USD. Bush thinks he will go down in history as saving western civilization from high oil prices due to Peak Oil. Saddam was Israel's #1 enemy.
I'd say our reasons for Libya were similar to Iraq with the exception that Libya (Gadaffi) believed in eliminating money and in unifying Africa, I read that he also wanted to set up a currency backed by gold that would trade for oil.
I'd love to hear from some Iraq/Afghanistan veterans.
There is no doubt we are in the middle east to protect Israel....what a surprise...but also to expand/push the Western lifestyle....then oil to a lesser extent.
Harvard Professor Stephen Walt and UChicago professor John Mearsheimer indicated the dual national Israeli/American neocons such Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz and the Israel lobby were behind the attack on Iraq and are responsible for drawing US policies to the Middle East. http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/488
Oil outweighs anything else over there many times over. Once oil production in Arabia and Persia goes into permament decline the Middle East will need to watch its back. The USA may continue to prop up Israel but it will prop up the Muslim East as much as it props up Zimbabwe or North Korea.
I'm too cynical to believe that
is it because your a Hasbara Megaphone boy???
If we were there to protect Israel we'd leave the region alone
Afghanistan: The Trans Afghanistan Pipeline
Iraq: Secret memos expose link between oil firms and invasion of Iraq
Libya: "Operation Libya" and the Battle for Oil: Redrawing the Map of Africa
But that's just one level. The US spends more on its military than the next 30 largest countries combined - nearly half of all global military spending. The US is the world's largest producer and exporter of arms, and accounts for almost 40% of the global arms trade.
The military-industrial complex is just one aspect of the global-corporate-financial complex.
I am not advocating war in any way but I feel like most Americans do not realize how catastrophic it would be to our way of life if cheap oil all of a sudden stopped. I realize that there will be no more oil someday but that is down the road and we will have to ready ourselves for. Right now though, we as country cannot function without oil. So keeping a steady stream of oil coming out of the MidEast is indeed a national security issue.
We have other alternatives to fossil fuels available. The reason why it is so expensive is because the competition and demand for it is currently low. When oil becomes too expensive, it will drive down the prices of solar and wind technologies, and we will transition to renewable energy. When computers were first invented, they were very expensive - now, anyone can have one for $500. It's the same deal.
The reason why we invaded Iraq is because of the financial interests of some of the top dogs in the US attempting to increase the revenue of their companies (Dick Cheney) who were heavily invested in oil. Not because we need it to survive as a country.
I agree. We don't need to push solar with subsidies because increasing oil prices and improving technology is already pushing solar and wind forward. A fine example is the price of most solar company's stock over the past couple years. Many are down 80% because of the price of solar products has gotten so low that they are operating at negative profit margins. Bad for the solar companies, many will likely go under or be bought out, but those that survive are going to start selling home solar systems that most middle class families can invest in.
Saddam was working with the US to go after Al Qaeda. He never conspired to interrupt the flow or increase the price of oil. Even after Iraq is back on its feet, most of the oil produced there will not be explored by US companies. The 2 university professors on the video below explain why the US went to Iraq. They are banned by the media for exposing a powerful lobby. http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/488
What are you talking about? Seriously, what are you talking about? Saddam was not working with anyone against Al Qaeda. In regards to U.S. companies drilling oil, your statement is false. A free Iraq will determine which companies will be allowed to drill for oil. Those companies may or may not be U.S. companies. You are correct in stateing that the war was not necessarily to take Iraq's oil. The war was about allowing the people of Iraq to whatever they want with oil, or any other resources they might have.
Susan Lindauer, CIA asset before 911, was the middle person between the US government and the Iraq government when they were trying to determine the exact date Al Qaeda was going to attack.
http://youtu.be/G43zl4fzDQg
Mooks, the fact is that the US has unexploited oil reserves that can last the world for 40 years! Peak oil or those that say that we have to depend on the ME for oil are lying. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704107204574470700973579402.html
There are many theories why we CHOOSE to depend on the ME for oil. The one that makes the most sense is to GET RID OF OUR INFLATION via the oil exchange (the dollar is the world reserve currency, oil is traded in dollars). We need to "dilute" the dollar money supply because of the policy of The Fed. For example, the European central bank is very cautious to embark in a quantitative easing policy even now that they are in crisis. Why? Because they have no effective way to dilute they're currency so that inflation doesn't affect too much.
The US as an exporter and not an importer of oil would be stuck with almost all the dollars therefore the inflation would go through the roof and people would revolt, fast!
It all has to do with monetary policy (once again). If we wanted to, we could exploit our oil reserves but that would mean that the Fed's scam would be 10x more apparent than now. Instead we "export" our inflation all over the world when we buy oil and the soft kill continues...
I am all for drilling for our own oil. We cannot keep sending money to the ME. And it would create a ton of good paying jobs here at home. Until that happens though, we need to get our oil from somewhere.
The price of oil is not the issue here (the myth of peak oil was deliberately spread by oil companies and the government to justify the prices and to install in the psyche of people that oil is not plentiful, which it is). We can start exploiting our oil in 3-4 years if we decided to stop the madness and militarism around the world. The issue (for those in charge) is that the scam would stop for the federal reserve and the Military industrial complex as we would become EXPORTERS of oil and importers of dollars.
What if all the oil extracted from the US stays in the US? We would not be importing/exporting either oil or dollars. I am sure as a nation we would have no problem using all of the oil here at home.
That too. But the fact is that we have oil to last the world, not just us, for 40 years. But if we decide not sell oil it would be the same problem for the MIC. They wouldn't be able to justify the militarism by putting oil as an excuse. As for The fed, it would also be the same problem, albeit in a smaller scale as we wouldn't import any dollars. The mechanism to dilute the dollar supply with the oil exchange wouldn't exist though... But yes we could do that too if we decided to stop the madness.
Oil is a finite resource, a fossil fuel, if there was sooo much oil in U$A then why are the oil companies drilling more & more dry holes: http://www.energybulletin.net/sites/default/files/growing_gap_large2011.gif
Are U a climate denier too?
If you would have clicked on my link, it would have saved you the embarrassment...
I read stuff like that before, the comments on Maugeri's Scientific American article are better and, if peak oil doesn't get us, global warming will:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=squeezing-more-oil#comments
Who said anything about global warming? How did that get into the conversation? LOL Like Herman Cain says: "It's apple and oranges and I'm talking about apples, you're talking about oranges."
Peak oil is a myth debunked ad infinitum, they've been saying that we're at peak oil since the 1980's but I know you won't change from your position no matter what so I'll leave it at that.
M. King Hubbert came up with the idea of Peak Oil in 1956. Burning fossil fuel causes global warming, not apples & oranges. Oil production peaked in USA.
No it hasn't peaked in the US. We have unexploited recoverable oil reserves that can last the world for 40 years.
And it is apple and oranges because the discussion is not about what cause global warming, the discussion is about us depending on the middle east for our oil needs...
*edit: the production of oil peaked from the RESERVES PRESENTLY EXPLOITED but there is 40 years worth of unexploited resources. We choose not to exploit our oil and to depend on the ME.
Peak Oil or global warming, either way it's unsustainable and I have no faith in science to save us.
Yeah Mooks, if the price of oil goes much higher than it is now, it will throw a monkey wrench into our economic recovery.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Human-Society-Project/202270743180999 I believe one of our big issues is money. If you wouldn't mind taking a look at that it would be greatly appreciated. thank you for your time.
No reason is good enough or acceptable. Killing innocents and damages will cost us and in the name of what? Not Freedom or Democracy for America is a peaceful people and these acts will end in the name of all that is good.
Because of 9-11.
The media and corrupted federal government colluded to disable Americans from seeing justice.
oil is an unchallenged energy source
So Lockheed Martin and Nothrup Gruman can make money.
If I recall Afghanistan was for both oil and gas and I have read Iraq was because Saddam was considering doing any future oil trading in the Euro instead of the dollar which is a big no no for the US.
@ '666isMoney' : Mate you seem like a person who has spat out your 'Blue Pill' and may well be in the process of swallowing the 'Red Pill' !! As such, please see :
a) Re. Afghanistan : http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupied-afghanistan-some-facts-points-observation/ ,
b) Re. Libya : http://occupywallst.org/forum/timeo-pax-americana-oilygarchs-banksters-obomber-l/ &
c) Re. Corporations & Taxes : http://preview.tinyurl.com/cg2fpuc & http://www.ctj.org/corporatetaxdodgers/CorporateTaxDodgersReport.pdf .
fiat lux ...
From a) above : With reference to Afghanistan - "Graveyard of Empires" but alas also an early grave for so many of its long suffering people, I post the following ;
1) Afghanistan is a multi-ethnic country, made up of Aimaks, Baluchis, Hazaras, Kazahks, Kirghis, Pamiris, Tajhiks, Turkmen, Uzbeks & at ~42% of the total population, the largest single group, the Pashtuns/Pukhtoons.
2) The historical Pashtun homeland is divided in two by the Afghan/Pakistan border. This porous "border" is in effect the old "Durand Line", the de facto western territorial limit of the British Empire in the Indian subcontinent. The Pashtuns have NEVER recognised this arbitrary line on someone else's map & no external power or authority has ever been able to define it, let alone patrol or police it.
3) Pashtun society is extremely conservative, deeply traditional, unrelentingly patriarchal & tribal. The Women lead difficult lives far removed from any "Liberal Western Norms". A Pashtun is a member of a family group, a sub-clan,a clan & then a tribe. At over 45 million people globally, they are the world's largest tribally affiliated ethnic group.
4) Conservative Islam & the Lex Talionis, Pre-Islamic honour code "Pashtunwalli", are the law, organisational guidelines & ethical principles by which this proud, fiercely independent & hardy mountain people regulate their society alongside & within their Jirga/Shura/Majlis collective decision making & gathering systems.
5) The phrase "Revenge is a dish best served cold", is the English approximation & appropriation of the Pashtun original. Another Pashtun dictum is: "Me against my brothers; me & my brothers against my cousins; me, my brothers & my cousins against the world". Pashtun males are considered adult at 13 years of age & are honour bound to defend "Zan, Zhar, Zamin" - Women, Wealth & Land. Notions of loyalty and duty to kith & kin, honour, respect, shame, "not losing face" & "dying on one's feet rather than living on one's knees" are central to their world view & modus vivendi.
6) The word "Taliban" translates as "Students", as they were originally recruited, equipped & organised with the enthusiastic help, encouragement & funding of the Saudis, ISI, MI6 & CIA from the Madrasas (religious schools) in the numerous Pashtun refugee camps, during & after the war to oust the Soviet armed forces & the devastating civil war that followed it. Their grandfathers & fathers were then of course, known & eulogised as the "Mujahideen". The word "Taliban" is now nothing other than a obfuscatory, propagandist & subversive "meme" for what is in actuality, under various names & guises - The Pashtun National Resistance Movement.
7) The peoples of present day Afghanistan, whether Pashtun or otherwise, are the time served world champions of guerilla warfare & insurgency. No army or empire has ever been able to totally defeat & dominate them. (Alexander the Great's) Greek, Scythian, Hepthalite, Bactrian, Persian, Mongol, Arab, Turkic, British & Russian armies have all been severely mauled & bloodied at some time or other & have had to retreat, assimilate, pay tribute to or come to an accommodation with, these fierce & warlike peoples.
8) The Americans, despite their massive military superiority, are the latest to learn these same painful lessons. This time however, the whole world is (quite intentionally?) further driven towards a "Clash of Civilisations", as advocated by Samuel Huntington, Benny Morris, William Safire, Thomas Friedman, Charles Krauthammer, Donald, Robert & Fred Kagan, Norman & John Podhoretz, Richard & Daniel Pipes, Irving & Bill Kristol, Richards Perle & Haas, Pauls Bremer & Wolfowitz, etc.
9) This PNAC/NeoCon ambition, aspiration & world view stimulates and is mirrored by (as predicted by the Probability Gamers in Herzliya & Langley!) the grand "End Time" schematic of a few thousand Jihadis worldwide, whose fanaticism & fury ; rage & resistance is fuelled, stoked & provoked by the Scientific Uber-Violence & Imperial Jackboot of the "Coalition of the Complicit", under the aegis & "Blood Spattered Banner of the Usurped States of Amnesiacs".
10) What the Warmongering US "National Security"/Military/Industrial/Corporate/Banking cliques did NOT seem to know of the Buddhist Vietnamese, in that they were a fiercely independent people, who had fought the Mongol, Khmer, Chinese, Japanese & French Imperiums before they defeated the USA - so do they NOW seem NOT to know of the Muslim Afghans.
However, perhaps an Unending War is just what is Really Wanted by the Dark Forces of the Bankster-U$/MIC Nexus. After all 9/!! was the declared raison d'etre for the Illegal & Immoral War on Afghanistan but as that attack had nothing to do with Afghans or Afghanistan, then ... ?
Empire & 'WARFARE' abroad and austerity & 'UNFAIR' at home - this horror, hubris & hypocrisy can NOT go on !!!
fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ruat caelum ...
With ref. to Libya & b) above : "Banksters ; OilyGarchs ; Obomber ; Libya & "some information from beyond the MSM veil".
Barack 'Obomber' has provien to be yet another Neo-Imperialist American President with a clear NeoCON tinge. 'Ohbummer' is more likely to be a happy puppet of The Banksters, MIC & Imperial Interests, than someone who will ever deliver any kind of "change we can believe in". Indeed, 'Oblah-blah's hypocritical words re. "Change we can believe in", now appear to have all the hallmarks of psychopathy & recalling those pre-election speeches is enough to induce extreme nausea.
The new front on the 21st century resource wars is Africa & Libya is 'Chapter 1' and AFRICOM ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7026197.stm ) is now in full swing & with reference to Libya and for some information from beyond the MSM veil, I post some points & observations :
1) Libya's offer to other African countries to trade, exchange & barter Libya's gas & oil ( http://www.oilandgaslibya.com/ ) in exchange for agricultural produce, raw materials & especially Gaddaffi's ideas for an African GOLD backed currency { http://www.goldstockbull.com/articles/libya-invas.... }, which would thus have undermined existing notions of the "petro-dollar" and demand for the U$D as the Global Reserve Currency ... is Absolutely Critical to understanding NATO's War on Libya ;
2) An ever greedy corporate eye is upon Libya's Water resources ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Manmade_River ), which will be available for future export to Malta, Sicily, Egypt & Tunisia etc., { http://www.waterpolitics.com/2011/07/31/water-big.... } ;
3) Libya has next to no national debt and is NOT in hock to the Unholy & Usurious WTO / IMF / World Bank - Nexus. Libya's 2010 notional debt was less than $6.4 Billion & 9% of GDP at a per capita debt of only ~$970/person - (See line 99, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt ) ;
4) Having a State Owned Central Bank, Libya is not a member of that Elitist Club of Private Central Bankers, the Bank of International Settlements. One of the first acts of "The Rebels" was to establish A New Private Central Bank of Libya ( http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article27881.htm ). This point can NOT be Emphasised Enough ;
5) Libya ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya ) has a very small population relative to its size (~6.5M) & thus seems ripe for de facto take over in the always avaricious eyes of The Empire & the Global Oligarchs, who with the help, blood & lives of "The Rebels", will now seek to turn Libya into yet another Imperial Fiefdom.
Alas, the modus operandi of this latest WAR for Resources & Imperial Hegemony is now increasingly clear for us all to see. Libyans should be extremely wary about "throwing the baby out with the bath water" and of "jumping out of the frying pan & into the fire" ; as becoming indentured Wage-Slaves to the Oily-garchs and being in perpetual Debt-Bondage to The Infernal Banksters will NEVER constitute Liberty, Prosperity or Dignity for Libyans.
timeo 'Pax Americana' et donna ferentes ...
The reasons which you stated are all true, but there is more too it than that. You see we are battling against China. We're not physically battling them, more economically. After our rampage through the Middle East, we greatly reduced the amount of resources (especially oil) being traded with China. We recently started sending troops near Asia also. All these efforts are still, as they always have been, to stop communism. China has been becoming a world power at a very fast rate, soon they may even surpass America. This scares us for a number of reason, but the biggest is about communism (which is said to be bad, but were not allowed to read the communist manifesto for some odd reason) The people are very much deceived.
US people believe communism is evil without further examination
Never elect people who accept corporate money. This is what you get.
We are there cause it's an excuse to say we are fighting the terrorists but what it really is , is a cover up for control of the Mideast oil reserves it was all orchestrated with 9-11 to take control away from people through fear and giving the money power to the rich oil companies it does'nt take a rocket scientist to figure out americans are so gullible
I remember my parents playing that song when I was a kid. Iraq was just to get the foothold militarily in the area to help protect Israel. Afghanistan because a lot of terrorist training occurred there. And it is an official Third World Shithole.
the Roads to War & Economic Collapse, http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article31738.html
Kennedy was shot by Santa.
CIA killed JFK: http://666ismoney.com/JFKWEB.html
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All of us do know very well why. The question is what to do to stop this shit.
It's the job of American citizens to pay high taxes so they can have a strong military presence all around the world and protect all the other countries from the "enemies". America does this job so well, that sometimes it braves the most horrific dangers and goes in alone; think Iraq. For this, we have to thank Americans. The armies of most countries are not brave and wait for allies to join them before invading the land of "enemies". Thanks for saving us guys!