Forum Post: Why Are Canadians Happier? What Do They Have That We Don't?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 11, 2011, 11:40 a.m. EST by JohnsonJaimes
(260)
from Sanibel, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Just to name a few-
Nearly no violent crime,
Free advanced education for the poor, fees based on a sliding scale, much cheaper tuition for those that do have to pay, no six-figure student loans to make wage-slaves out of their working class citizens. Rich pay full price.
No housing "bubble" that burst, must pay 25% down to buy property.
Single-Payer Health Care, no bankruptcy due to medical bills,
Paid maternity leaves, up to one year!
I could go on and on, but would like to hear what other may have to add, pro or con.
Any Canadians out there that can add to this discussion? BTW- I am not Canadian.
It's what we have that the Canadians don't, greedy selfish psychopaths running the country.
I was born and raised in Canada and I can tell you that this country is not all smiles and sunshine. Aside from the fact that it wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the mass slaughter and continued exploitation of aboriginal peoples (something that it has in common with the US), we are witnessing a steady increase in the criminalization of dissent. If your romantic vision of Canada stems in any way from Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine," forget everything he said. He is a propagandist who must be taken with several large grains of salt.
No, I've vacationed there, known some Canadians over the years, and in my opinion overall they do seem happier, and very friendly. There must be reasons for this. This post has opened my eyes to some of the problems you guys are going through, and has forced my to learn more about the structure of your government. We are becoming more similar as time goes on it seems, with your present leaders taking you guys on a right turn. I'm interested in hearing the pros and cons from the people that actually live there. Anything you might like too add?
I will add that, while I consider myself a reasonably happy and friendly person, I attribute this more to having supportive, loving family and friends than I do to the fact that I reside within an arbitrary set of territorial borders that delineates the nation-state known as "Canada." While I would not want to live anywhere else, I am still critical of the very notion of Patriotism and would like to imagine and, to whatever extent I am able, strive for a world in which national borders no longer exist.
Canadians have Poutine. This is the source of all their contentment and calm :)
We f*cked up when we went with the corrupting influence of chili, the culinary epitome of chaos which is never predictable and which in almost all cases causes increased flatulence. We also messed up by choosing a decrepit dairy product like aged cheddar which leads to stinky breath. This is why we stink while those from Canada all carry with them the fresh smell of cedar and crisp fall days.
In contrast, Canadians exude peace and joy because they created the closest thing to the Mana eaten by the Gods of old when they opted for the simple perfection of plain brown gravy, which is smooth in both texture and uniformity. They furthermore had the wisdom to see the obvious superiority of Cheese curds, which in addition to being tasty, makes your teethe squeak, leading to the kinds of smiles that create a cascade of positive personal health benefits and social cohesion.
;p
I'm aware of Poutine. I live in South Florida (many Canadians here). There's a little independent ice cream stand in a place called Dania Beach owned by French Canadians. They sell the stuff, but I can't get into it. Weird though, I like all off the ingredients, but not together all at once. You forgot to mention the french fries. BTW- are you from Canada originally?
No, though I am a fan of Poutine, I'm just a typical American smart ass :) But I was raised in a family of hockey fans, so I know their national anthem as well as our own, and being American, this is enough to make me an expert on Canada :)
I find the whole US v. Canada debate interesting.... Americans always seem to be into pondering the issue even though it gives us an inferiority complex, at which point we mollify ourselves with the theory that they depend on us for their security and are therefore a nation of flannel wearing homosexuals. The rest of the time we pretend they don't exist or are America light.
Sometimes their surface similarity comes in handy. I have a Maple Leaf's jersey that has logged more world travel miles than I have, mainly because for the last 4 years of the Bush presidency, it was the one "must have" item on my friend's and I packing list for overseas trips, a vital item for those wanting to avoid having to explain wtf was going on in America to every French cabbie, Turkish merchant, German bartender, etc, etc. Without ever having to wear it, we could point to the jersey draped over our duffel or chairback, mumble Canada, (an evasion we could live with, Canadian being an outright lie) and shrug, saving us at least 15 to 30 minutes of time per encounter and from being cornered into apologizing for a president we didn't vote for anyway, plus it often got us free drinks and reduced cab fare as a show of their deep sympathy for the terrible luck of sharing a border with a land full of mildly retarded warmongers.
I'm sure Canada isn't perfect. But they undeniably score higher on indexes of living standards, and even though they are pinko commies like the Euros (i.e. they know what industries shouldn't be handed over to profiteers and maintain a social safety net as well as a free market) they still manage to rate above us on conservative indexes of economic freedom, an irony lost on regulation phobic conservatives.
At times it seems they are Teflon-- for example, while they fought like hell to keep their leaders from signing NAFTA, recognizing that anything supposedly for the mutual benefit of all parties yet highly endorsed and pursued by America was fishy and probably an attempt to screw someone, they are the only one of the three nations that benefited more than they suffered from it. Or it might be good Karma or Divine favor as a reward for good behavior. Unlike the USA, whose record on fair dealing with indigenous peoples is damning, Canadians, despite some blemishes to their record, still managed to move right on in and forge a western civil society without resorting to full scale genocide, and they have mainly kept their treaties. And while over 70 percent identify as Christian, they seem to manage to avoid the pitfalls of morality legislating and homo hating, without an increase in Euro style godlessness or lighting strikes.
But all kidding aside, I'd say it's a combination of luck and skill. The luck is that they have a low ratio of population to natural resources. The skill is that they seem to make better choices and stay the fuck out of pointless wars even though we try like hell to convince them to join in. Even though in most cases they have our back- they don't let us bully them-- they maintained relations with Cuba and let us fly solo to Iraq, which now seems less like lack of loyalty for their good buddy and more like a shrewd awareness of that good buddies propensity for being rash and full of shit.
And they sure are nice aren't they? Even their yahoos seem polite compared to ours. This totally flies in the face of my white people are aggressive as an adaptation to northern climates theory, and a weakness which I am still trying to account for.
Their niceness also makes it fun to talk shit about them without worry anything will stick and with the added benefit of throwing off all people in earshot when you do this. Try it!!! When someone neglects to notice you wincing under all that white skin as they talk about lazy Mexicans and what to do about them, the best way to lob the awkwardness back at them without confrontation is to look them in the eye and ask how they feel about the true enemy, the Labatte Blue drinking, Hocky thug loving, disease and plague on humanity that is Canada :) As a conversation stopper and moment of sublime absurdity for fans of that sort of thing, it can't be beat.
BTW- Living here in Florida I hardly ever meet anyone from the west coast. All the nuts from the east half of the country roll down here to the Sunshine State. There must be a reason why many Californians don't relocate to Florida. Another "happiness factor" perhaps?
Awesome post. Best, longest, and most thoughtful response yet. You defend Canada better than the Canadians on this popular post of mine. I started it to gain some insight, spur discussions, learn some things, get to know some new folks a bit, and to have some fun. Being a finish carpenter by trade with this slow economy,
I find myself to have more time on my hands than I would like. I only started blogging a few days ago but have taken to it quite naturally. I find it to be a stimulating, educational, form of brain candy. And like candy it seems to have addictive qualities. I wouldn't have thought a "newbie" like myself would do this well on the "blogosphere". I guess my post struck a nerve. Some real assholes jumped in for a while, but I think intelligent, non-offensive dialog scares them away pretty quickly. These must be the "Trolls" I've read so much about and from. Don't Feed The Trolls. More Americans could benefit from learning a few things about how the world works past their noses. Well it's getting late, gotta crash. Peace- J.J.
That's true. I was a University student in 1989. Tuition was $1,500 a year back then ($500 a year in Quebec). I took a year or two off because the economy was bad, and tuition had quintupled in price...to $5000 a year. This happened at a time when there were -still no jobs-.
Also, student loans used to be handled by the government, with no interest. Then, that same year they switched them over to the banks, with massive interest rates.
I think University in Canada is still cheaper than it is in the U.S., ($8000 a year), but it's still astronomically expensive (especially if you can't get a job to pay back your student loan.)
Oh My God, you guys are starting to fall down the same rabbit hole we did. Hope you can reverse direction soon and oust Harper and his ilk. It's still way cheaper there though. The other half is in an 18 month Masters program to the tune of well over $30,000. Luckily she's already working in her chosen feild.
Yes I hope we can oust Harper as well. He really is a dictator, like a 'Johnny come lately' George W. Bush. He has already committed several illegal acts which should have had him replaced as Prime Minister. Even now, he is secretly trying to pass a 'free trade' deal with Europe, to let the European 1% have first crack at all of Canada's natural resources.
Wow, if you guys keep heading in that direction I may not want to move there by the time I can afford it. I'm rooting for you guys, eh.
Thanks, we are Occuping our cities in Canada too. A lot of Canadians say we don't have as much reason to Occupy as our American cousins do. However, the discrepancy between rich and poor has been growing much faster in Canada than it has in the U.S.
Sounds like good old American-style apathy. I guess it may be sadly true that you're guy's culture and ours are becoming irrevocably homogenized. I would recommend you tell everyone you can to fight for what sets you apart from anyone else, and vote!
Eh, well 'culture' is how you look at it. I mean, there are several different and distinct cultures across Canada, from the East coast, to French speaking Quebec, to Anglophile English speaking Ontario, to the Prairies, to 'Canada's Texas' Alberta, and of course, hippie-heaven British Columbia.
Same as in the U.S. I suppose. There must be six or more culturally and linguistically distinct regions in the U.S. The Northeast coast, the Southeast, the heartland, the mid west, Texas, the East coast, etc. I think a Texan and a New Yorker are probably more different than someone from Ontario and someone from Ohio.
Television has had it's effect in the 'California-ization' of the rest of North America. I think the internet has had the effect of erasing national boundaries and borders to an extent.
Sometimes I wonder if our larger North American countries might not start breaking up into smaller countries, like they have in Europe?
Well I do know that your French speaking region has grumbled about secession, and they hold on to their culture fiercely (just look at the signage laws). And I think I heard that Toronto has a large "counter-culture" as well. But I'm sure it can't compare to "Vansterdam" (Vancouver). I went there for three weeks and had the time of my life. Went to Whistler, did a lot of hiking, Saw all of the touristy stuff, and delved deeper, got to know some locals, and they showed me the sights that they keep to themselves. It was magical, and seriously, I didn't meet a single asshole there that wasn't a tourist.
Yes, Quebec has wanted to separate because they consider themselves 'a distinct society', which they are. I think the problem came in deciding legally and financially what would happen when they separated. Would they pay their share of the national debt, etc?
Toronto is the biggest city in Canada, but it's about the same size as Chicago. Sure, there is a 'counter-culture' there, but only because it's the financial capital of Canada so everyone across the country flocks to it. We do have a marijuana cafe in downtown Toronto, although marijuana smoking is simply tolerated (by the Police) not sold there. It's pretty much the same for the rest of Canada as well though.
Toronto is like a copy of Manhattan, but much cleaner, even some of the buildings are identical. There isn't much to do in Toronto except work though.
Vancouver is a lot more interesting, and a lot more fun. Apparently it is also a lot more expensive too though. I know someone here from Victoria, BC who moved to Toronto because she couldn't afford Vancouver. If you are from Florida, you might like how it never gets below freezing in Vancouver, it just rains all winter. There's nude beaches too, and yes of course other stuff.
So far, according to my tally the pros outweigh the cons. I'm originally from Northern Michigan, so for me the snow can be fun, but the other half is originally from Puerto Rico. Would have to be B.C.
ah, yeah the Puerto Rican side of you might miss the heat, and the Ocean.
Health care is nice, and we have less guns though that is changing. Not to say guns are bad, but it has been correlated with less homicides than you guys per capita obviously. Maybe it's the hockey. Hockey really is a great sport, i don't get why americans don't understand this.
We have more space? I don't know. The U.S., although i love so much about it, and i do mean that sincerely, ,i feel it has too much influence on us. You get american idol, we have canadian idol. So you think you can dance? So you think you can dance... Canada. Come on. Not that i care about these shows, but just to point to some cultural bleed through to our country. We have legalized gay marriage, we don't go crazy over with ridiculously ultra severe laws about weed, the healthcare thing is a big one as well.
Overall i feel much safer in my country than when in the states, no offense americans, i love you guys! mwwahh!
It's all the same though really, in a sense. We just happen to have friendlier laws at the moment, though our current government is really starting to piss me off and seems to be bowing down to the pressure of U.S. govt. which i am really not a fan of at all.
Give us Washington, Oregon and California, and we'll see if we can change it up nice for you. ;) Just playin. I say that cause im in B.C. They are beautiful states already and i love them as they are in there American ways.
I spent 3 weeks in B.C. I loved it. Bounce Harper, he's bad news
I could not agree more with you about Harper. One good thing is the rise of the NDP (New Democratic Party) into the majority opposition party las election, something that has never happened in our history.
The originator of the NDP, from what i understand, was Tommy Douglas, a politician from Saskatchewan who was also responsible for the instigation our universal health care system.
When did you guy's start UHCS? Was it considered controversial back then, and did the opposing parties actually work together to hash it out? About how long did it take?
Is this a viable 4th. party? Do you think they can obtain minority rule at least?
Well, the party Quebecois took a big hit in Quebec, with many former supporters voting NDP instead. Other than that, you have the Liberals and the Conservatives. Conservatives are in power, but the Liberals finished 3rd for the first time in history. Usually they are either the major opposition or else in power, with a Prime Minister.
Conservatives/Liberals i guess very loosely could be compared to Republicans/Democrats sort of. But NDP has always been in third nationally. Provincially, meaning British Columbia, we've had a few NDP premiers and at the moment a liberal premier, but never conservative. Not to my knowledge anyhow, i am not that old so there may have been before my time.
Freedom. Their government is not yet trying to take their guns, take control of their food, or of their transportation systems, tax us to death, lie to us, make us homeless, all in the name of 'our safety.'
No, no, no. Canadians are happier because they're down with the KTC!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/something-to-think-about-part-1/
The Revolution starts here!
The USA hangs in perpetual anxiety of it's identity, inventing all manner of illusions and comforting lies (We're Number One!) to prop up its over-inflated yet demoralized ego.
Canada suffers from no such deep-seated angst and guilt and self-hate.
And they have far superior strip clubs and cathouses.
South Park was right. Blame Canada.
Canadians are dorks. Who cares if they're happy, they're still stupid? Cows are happy, pigs are happy, so what, Canadians are happy! Correction, what you've been reading as happy, is actually a thick veneer of Canadian dull. They are a national non-factor. I mean, think about it, does anyone really care what Canada thinks? The talent all leaves. Celine Dion? She's in Vegas. What does that tell you? Happy, no. Mediocre, yes. Provincial, yes. Smug, oh God, if I have to listen to another Canadian recite the national poetry: loonies and toonies, loonies and toonies ... When does anyone ever say cuttin-edge and Canada in the same sentence? And do really you think Canadians are polite? Ask them how they feel about Hong-couver? I mean, the white ones, (the true Canadians).
Canadians are bougie little shits suppressing their angry over not being Americans. They are hyper-aware that no one takes them seriously, but are too dumb to do anything about it and too proud to admit it. So what can they do? They just smile, eh? I mean, they beat the Americans at hockey, that one fucking time, and 34 million Canadians literally shit their poutine. Oh, Canada! (sing) I can tell you this for a fact because I am Canadian. We are not happy. Nor are we polite. So, fuck you, America, you hockey-playing-losers! There is no Shangri-La here, nor anywhere. Stop looking around for the easy way out and clean up your fucking front yard! Because, while the whole world loves to hate you and pretend that we do not need you and are just so much better in practically every way...well...truth is...honestly? We all want to live in Vegas. I'm Canadian. I support this film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amNO_QJzaQ8
That the worst whores in Canada have to leave for America because Canada doesn't want their kind any more.
Canada can only exist with its system because the United States is down there. Period. Canada is completely reliant on the United States.
This argument is ridiculous. They are not happier btw. There is no way to measure that.
back to the front of the bus
Censorship on my posts is rampant here.
permalinks and administrators are controlling the flow of information as much as they can.
Why would anybody desire to be part when they are excluded from the so called 99%?
I have noticed some strange goings on myself. Comments sometimes disappear. I don't think I'm being controversial or disparaging. I guess you can't please everyone, but I see your point. There's some really nasty shit being said by some. I try to stay away from them. I meet enough assholes when I'm in the real world, and I don't need the hassle. Trying to enjoy my weekend. Evidently there are certain "buzzwords" they screen for.
Evidently, you are not Canadian. You were just wondering if Canada invested in U.S. housing. Well, if you do your own research, you'll find Canada did. They are having the same trouble with debt. The entitlement programs are the hardest to reign in during economic contractions. Austerity programs hurt the worse in socialistic countries such as Canada.
Time to take off your rose-colored glasses.
No, I'm not, and I don't wear glasses, but from what I've summarized from all of the contributions to this post by Canadians, and Americans, is that Canada is a nice place to be. Granted they're not perfect, but can we say that about ourselves?
Ah, another good thing about Canada. Canada is one of the least populated countries in the world.
99% of the country is UN-occupied. Which means, when the sh*t hits the fan, Canada has a lot more 'hills' to run to.
I consider that to be a good thing.
Oh it is. There are actually some communities in Canada entirely founded by Americans. There is one town on Victoria Island where all the inhabitants were originally draft-dodgers from the 1960s. They fly American flags, name some of their buildings and businesses after U.S. heros and icons, and so on. Kind of ironic to move to Canada to build an American town I suppose, but that's what the United Empire Loyalists did after the American revolution too.
Are professional, liberal, progressive, Americans still welcome at this point?
American brothers and sisters are always welcome
Cool, we're known to recognize a good thing when we see it. I just hope we don't ruin it. How hard is it to come there legally, and do you know how long the process usually takes. We wouldn't mind coming for an extended stay to check it out for ourselves (wife and I) after she graduates.
Hmm, I don't know. Americans are definitely welcome in Canada, especially now. I don't know how hard it is. I think having a criminal record makes it a lot harder.
Some of the Americans I know living here don't bother to become citizens, just permanent residents. You can still vote in U.S. elections if you live in Canada.
If you did want to become a citizen, then it's a points system. You get more points for being able to speak English or French (or both), points for every level of education you finish, points for being a professional (nurse, engineer, etc.)
You don't have to be a citizen to be covered by health care, just live in the province (of your choice) for six months of the year.
Apparently it's no problem to come across the border into Canada, even if you plan to stay. NAFTA was supposed to guarantee the easy transit of goods and people.
If you want to use, buy, and possess firearms in Canada, you have to pass a safety test and get a license. Then, you are legally allowed to own, store, and use a gun and ammunition. Don't bring guns and ammunition across the border though.
How do they (the government) handle squatters who pack-up and go on "permanent vacation" as long as they don't get in trouble. The Wife has a BA in graphic design, and is almost done with her Masters Degree. I am a highly skilled contractor working for the interior design trade. A French Canadian client told me I would do very well on Vancouver Island. I'm assuming that's where some of your 1% live.
You could setup a company in the US then do as much consulting as you wanted as long as you worked for your US based company. So you can live and work for Canadian clients just bill out of the US.
Well, it depends on where you go in B.C. The thing is, Canada is so big and so underpopulated that you could easily disappear. Vancouver itself is very densely populated and very expensive. The rest of British Columbia is sparsely populated. You can even buy land quite cheap there, if you stake a mining claim. You have to be the 'Grizzly Adams' type for this though.
Vancouver Island? Hmm, not sure if that's where the 1% live. Maybe in Victoria, which is expensive. I think Vancouver Island is mostly for hippies, by which I mean Vietnam draft-dodgers from the U.S. Skilled contractors are pretty much in demand everywhere. Graphic design? Well as long as you have an internet connection.
Actually she's a Creative Director, with a BA in graphic design, almost done with a Masters. Think that would help?
I don't know. Lots of people with post grad degrees in Canada.
Though yes it certainly helps in the 'points system', for immigration.
Maybe she could get a job in the film industry, or computer animation? That's pretty big in B.C.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-war-with-america-was-won-before-the-first-shot/#comment-343518
Loved the link to this post, let's get it back up front.
Uh, I have Canadian citizenship. All the things you just said except 4 and 5, and even then not always, are wrong.
You still have to pay for drugs here, the government health insurance plans do not cover them. Also dentistry and many other medical treatments. You can go to the doctor for free though. You can still go bankrupt due to medical bills.
There are still student loans too, even for basic college education. And there is no equivalent of pell grants, either.
Canada is not special. The fact is that the reason there was no bubble is partly because you cannot default on a mortgage. You cannot be forgiven of that loan. Ever, afaik. Yeah it helps prevent housing bubbles (supposedly), but that is debt slavery.
The reason they are happier is that they have a higher quality of life, period. In the balance of things it is a better life, but there are many downsides. I like america in many ways myself.
Yes, I now know that some of these claims aren't entirely true, but due to folks like yourself calling me out it's forced me to learn more. I love it! I threw that post out off the top of my head based on anecdotal evidence and my time spent vacationing in Canada. I put it out there to spur discussion. I have found since that the Canadian education system, and the costs to citizens is based on a sliding scale. The poorest pay the least, it sounds fair to me, and a good way to help prevent further separation of the classes. My wife (who comes from a poor family from P.R.) will be enslaved with almost $100,000 debt by the time she graduates with her Masters Degree.
Canadians are bribed with so many social programs every facet of our lives could be FREE and controlled if we wanted it
Jerry Springer would never have been launched in Canada. Enough said.
I think it's because the Canadian government protected it's populace from the screaming lies of Rupert Murdock's Flakesnews.
You know it has to help.
I stand corrected.
Mexicans are even happier than Canadians. That's because Mexicans have accepted life with less. Americans are the least happy because they are greedy and always want more. Witness the OWS movement. Do you see such a movement in Mexico?> Hell no, people are much happier there with less.
oh yea..Mexicans happier than Americans. At least those that haven't been beheaded yet. You fucking moron.
I see a lot that come over the bridge to shop. Must be something here. It is nice though with such a small population.
How do you know Canadians are happier? How is this measured?
WHO says that Canadians are happier? Happier than whom?
Stephen harper's conservative party just got a slap on the wrist and fined for an 'in & out' scheme during our 06 election campaign - when he came to power even without most of the popular vote. They used more $ than election rules limit. 6 years later .. Mid 2nd term for him - his party fesses up pays 62k fine and stevies at the wheel. So i wouldnt compare our system as any less cronyrun than yours
oh those canadians, always playing hockey drunk off their asses!
I checked your 'facts' (http://worlddatabaseofhappiness.eur.nl/index.html). You are indeed correct that Canada is happier than us! We rate at an average of 7.4 and they rate at 7.8 (.1 behind Mexico... Yes Mexico is happier than both on average) with the highest average rating in all the world being 8.5 (Costa Rica)... almost all of the Nordic states rated in the top ten, the study was based out of the Netherlands (which is ranked 17th at 7.6).
Apart from one (Nearly no violent crime) of your examples of everything you viewed as a possible reason Canada is happier than us is based on money. Are you insinuating that money is what will ultimately make us happy?
No, a truly civilized culture would though.
I would say security is more important than money, and that money often plays a role in this. I'm not talking about securing your Texas estate with a shotgun. I'm talking about general security in life. For example, in Canada, even if I don't have much money, I don't have to worry that I'll get a cancer and won't be able to afford the hospital. My friend's father died last year in Indonesia because he could not afford treatment for his cancer. He was 42. This is a small example, but it is one element of stress that is removed and increases the happiness level a tad.
I'm from Missouri actually (not that we don't respect a shotgun). What do you think of our new health care plan in the US? I'll tell you that it's not very popular here. Mostly because it's so complicated and our media and politicians can keep their stories straight when telling us about it.
Also, how is the distribution of wealth in Canada? Not an attack, I just really don't know.
I haven't looked at the new health care plan in US. Mostly because it won't affect me and I can't vote in US anyhow.
Instinctively, I would say wealth distribution in Canada is more equal than US, but still problematic. It's a guess. I'm too lazy to check now. I'm sure you can find the figures on Google.
Oh it's an outright mess. It requires us to purchase our own insurance or buy into the federal plan. If we refuse to do either then we can be fined. I've read everything from it including paragraphs on homeland security, student loan rates and many other things you wouldn't expect to see in a health care bill. Nobody can explain whats in it. One of our house representatives told the American public that "We have to pass the bill so you can know what's in it". It's about as oppressed as I've felt in my whole life.
Missouri actually voted for a state law that says the federal government wouldn't be able to fine Missouri citizens for not buying into an insurance plan. It passed by 75% or better as I recall. The federal government claims that it wont matter but we have a chance of shielding ourselves from it since our states are supposed to make decisions on matters not defined in the US Constitution.
Just kind of painting a picture that you might not see in the news in Canada. Maybe that's how it is in Canada, hopefully not, but I really don't feel comfortable with how our government is playing their hand then re-dealing themselves and upping the ante each time.
That sounds pretty messy and complicated!
In Canada, we don't pay private insurance companies for health care. We pay taxes to the government, they then redistribute the money to the provinces, and the provinces are obliged by law to provide free health care. How each province structures it is up to them, but they must provide enough hospitals, and emergency rooms for everyone.
Okay... That sounds way saner than what we're trying to do. I'd say it it's more 'free' as in freedom than what we're doing as well. I learn something new every day.
I lived 2 years in Canada. Great people. Nice people. Lots wrong with their system (healthcare is returning to privatization in may ways). I knew an 80-year old lady in dire need of knee surgery. She had been waiting 6-months for it when I met her. She was still waiting 8-months later when I moved back to the states. That was in Edmonton. An Oilers hockey player blew out his knee in a game during that time and was under the knife the next day for the same surgery.
To answer your question about why they are happier? Lower expectations.
Yes, realistic expectations!
Many have to wait here as well for medical treatment. Many insurance companies patently deny services, tests, treatments, etc. If you have pre-existing conditions, forget about it. It's sad about the preferential treatment for rich and/or famous, but that truly is universal.
It is more egregious to me when a government does it than when a private company does. Such is the case in Canada and in Denmark (where my wife lived for 18-months).
The no student debt bit isnt true. Im owing and i better not b the lone one
Maybe I am misinformed. Canadians have told me about free college educations. Are they lying? Why are you in debt? Is it tuition, or something else? My other half went back to school to get a Masters Degree three years after getting a B.A.. $60,000 for the B.A. and another $40,000 for the Masters (student loans BTW) This doesn't include a $20,000 scholarship that was burned up in no time. She Barely makes $40,000 per year, and we're lucky for that. Got the job just before the bottom fell out. Student debt turns us into wage-slaves that have to take the first crappy job that comes along.
Um... Canadians don't have free advanced education. Students there are just as screwed as Americans.
Argentina has free or almost free university education, and it's economy is growing at a rate of 8% second only to China, due to Cristina Fernandez, her late great husband, and the policies of the Peronist party.
Have they got a secret?
They have a method, but it is no secret. Argentina's government has a constitution that is based on the US constitution, and they practice the American Economic System (look it up at Wikipedia), which is the opposite of the globalist policies which we practice in the US today.
They encourage the development of industries within their own country through appropriate tariffs, and invest in high tech infrastructure, such as nuclear energy, and science driver programs, such as their space program.
These practices originated from Juan Peron, who Wikipedia calls a Fascist, but I believe he was really just a strong nationalist.
its always funny to see Americans answer for Canadians...
Explain please.
Well, we're not nearly as screwed as Americans.
yes we are, people just don't know it. There is far less interest in politics here: just search for blogs and you'll find far less than the population difference indicates there should be.
I wouldn't agree.
That's helpful.. Any specific reason you don't agree? Does Canada have 'free' advanced education? Or do you think that American students are more screwed that Canadian students?
The government provides a lot of help for Canadian students, and tuitions are already much cheaper than in US. The way it works it that first the government establishes if you are independent or not. It looks at your age and your marital status. If you are 25 and married, then you are considered independant, otherwise they consider that you are not for this particular case. After this they look at your income if you are considered independent, else they look at the income of your parents. Then the government pays a percentage of your tuition depending on your financial situation. If you are very rich, then you pay all your tuition. If you are very poor, then it's free. Anywhere in between and the government will pay a certain part. For example, I have a friend who just became a doctor. He comes from a very poor family and his university was paid for almost entirely by the government.
Education in the United States used to be more like this.
In New York, CCNY was completely free from the time of its founding in 1847 until the mid 1970s. State universities, nationwide, were very low cost.
College started becoming big business in the late 70s early 80s.
No it is not free even if you are poor.
Wow, thank you for taking the time to tell us how it works. Sounds very fair to me. I really appreciate the intelligent dialog. Just curious, what do you do for a living? I am assuming that you are a professional of some type, even if you are part of the lower working class, i would say that Canada's education system has done alright by you in either case. Polar opposite from MikeYD's posts. Keep up the good work, i look forward to learning more about Canada.
I have a masters in classical music, but I work part-time as a computer programmer. The rest of the time I read and play music. I live in Bali, Indonesia at the moment. I'm 35 and I don't have much money, but I don't care too much. The most important thing for me is art.
BTW - I love Mark Ryden from California. He is one of my favorite modern painters. http://www.markryden.com
I had a feeling that you were professional. I am a carpenter, and part of the 99% I love to read, write, and learn. Some asshole just told me to get a job, these types are so quick to judge. My life is my work, and keeping my clients happy so that they will keep coming back and refer me to others. It's been a real struggle since '09 though. that's when my largest client (70% of my business) went under. Due to hard work, perseverance, and superior workmanship I have been able to keep my head above water, but barely. It seems that we are all just waiting for the other boot to drop.
Keep strong and good luck with your business. My father's family is almost entirely made up of carpenters. He had 16 brothers. They live in a small village in Canada, and all have their own shops. There's something beautiful about working with wood. It's an organic material with beautiful fibers. I wish I had learned a thing or two from my uncles.
Seems like we're starting to get to MikeYD. He should get a life.I can't figure out why so much hate from these blowhards. Jealousy perhaps? Not being able to compose a rational thought or sentence that's not insulting or crude is a sign of a weak mind not capable of rational thought or dialog.
He's probably young and doesn't have goals for his life at the moment. It gives him a sense of power to come here and insult strangers. In real life, he's probably lonely. He lives in a trailer park on a small island called Alameda, Ca. Everyone can change. We hope he does. Until then, the best is to dislike his posts. When they reach -4 they get hidden.
Yah. Step on his posts... we'll shut him up. LoL.
Good luck with that. Good fail on the profile too. I'm older and better educated than you are.
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So typically ex-pat. No wonder you are always on at 3am. The question I always have for ex-pats is, if your country is so great, why are you living someplace else? Hows that government Masters in Classical Music paying off for you? Why do you still state your location as Quebec?
I've actually lived abroad for the better part of a decade, and I have to say, you are prototypical of the French Candian community. Take that how you will, but I think you know what I mean.
There are many reasons why one becomes an expat. I came to Indonesia on a music scholarship, then met a lady I fell in love with and got married. I am planning on returning soon. We are waiting for her visa.
Hey. Word of advice on the visa thing. My wife and I are going through the same process. You can come back here on a visitors visa. Then once here just apply overseas but from within Canada. Make the process a lot easier and for some reason its faster. Your wife will not be able to work until get her covered but at least once you qualify to sponsor her she will be able to get free medical coverage within 2 months.
Wait...she has to have a VISA to live in Canada? So the US isn't the only mean, cruel country that demands documentation for those who wish to live here from other countries? :-O :-)
Whoever said US was a "mean, cruel country" for requiring visas?
Christ, could you be any more of a suck ass. Its pathetic and embarassing.
Could you be anymore confrontational?
Quite a bit actually. That post there is what I call being honest. Your post was no less so.
thats the same way it is in america..
Then why are people complaining that it's harder for the poor to get educated than it is for the rich?
i dont know. i suppose because the rich have all thier other need taken care of.. housing , food, clothing, the extra spent on stuff required to succeed in college,, like a laptop and internet access.. all they pay is tuition and books.. which works just fine but you may have to live under a bridge while in school. that makes it a whole lot more difficult.
Ah ok. In Canada the government gives you enough money to live.
Sounds just like the way it works in the US. If you qualify for "grants", you can attend college in the US for "free". If you don't qualify for a full grant, they look at your income (or that of your parents) and pay a percentage of your tuition depending on your financial situation.
Or there's that whole "study hard, get good grades, get a scholarship" thing that we do in the US as well.
No. You "qualify" for grants. The Canadian system isn't offering "grants" that you can "apply" for. If you meet x criteria, you are offered y benefits.
Same for scholarships. There are limited numbers of them, they're not for "anyone who studies hard." There is competition and a limited number of slots.
As for being "happier," well, Canadians, per capita, actually own more guns than Americans; they just don't use them against one another. That, in and of itself, makes them happier. But a quick search reveals that the data support this contention (even if its a few years old):
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/CTVNewsAt11/20070831/happiness_070831/
Americans are way down on the overall "happiness" index, and people who have higher taxes, cheaper education, and broadly accessible healthcare, like Canada and Finland, are "happier" than we are.
Peace.
www.blogspot.groobiecat.com
Hey GroobieCat, looked for your site but didn't work. Is your server down?
Oops, sorry about that; forgot to include the front bit. Try this: http://www.groobiecat.blogspot.com
Thanks for the interest.
Cheers.
speak for yourself - I'm happy!
The point isn't that you're happy. The 1% presumably is happy as well. You completely don't get the point, even remotely: it's to make more people happy.
Your simplistic comment/response unwittingly sums up the argument: "Screw you, I've got mine."
And that calculus is unacceptable.
Peace.
I cant be responsible for other peoples happiness. No one know what makes each individual happy. Money certainly is not necessarily the key to happiness. Yet you people are obsessed with other peoples money & how to get some of it
Well, a) yes, you can't be responsible for other people's happiness on an individual level, but b) the way we manage our limited resources--and how they're allocated as a nation--can, in fact, improve peoples' happiness overall. It's all about priorities and allocation of these resources. In Finland, they decided to eradicate homelessness. They provide affordable education and healthcare. And they did it because they value the collective weal over the welfare of the minority. In Finland, the majority thinks that's just common sense. Now before you tell me to move to Helsinki, my point is simply that there are other ways--ways that work--other than those we're fighting about here.
So, when you say "no one knows what makes each individual happy," that's not true. And the data are available to prove it (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world/240103/). We do know that money doesn't do it, by itself, but lack of it can definitely prevent happiness--or lack of what it can bring, more likely: basic needs, such as healthcare, education, food, housing.
Your last line is not true: it's not about other people's money, for one--the people who got the bailout essentially got our--including your--tax dollars to clean up their mess. That's one issue. Another is the equitable distribution of taxation: the current system is so completely out of whack, that if you're happy with the ratio of taxes being levied, you're either part of the 1% or unaware of the disparity. When Warren Buffett says he pays an effective tax rate that's lower than his secretary's, that's not bullshit, it's truth.
And it's patently unfair. You don't think it is? Great. Congrats. You're seriously in the minority, and OWS is revealing that's the case (along with any poll you care to google, btw).
I think you can make a nice life for yourself if you do the right things. No one is holding you back. There are more advantages & handouts today than ever before in history. If you cant make it today - you'll never make it. The current job market aside of course.
Based on what facts? That's all pure conjecture. Your assumption is that everyone has the same opportunities--they don't. That's the specious basis of the republican "bootstraps" right. I once asked a very christian religious date: "If you were born to jews in the bronx, do you think you'd be a christian today?" Her response: "Yes." That's the core issue: some can actually "make it" regardless of circumstance, but if mom and dad were denied a decent education early in life, and wound up doing not terribly well, and you're born into that family, you're not born into privilege. It's not a level playing field. And the right wants it to be even more uneven by funneling more resources to the rarefied few.
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There is no "full grant". The Federal Govt offers Pell Grants, which pay only a small part of a student's total tuition.
Students who need financial aid have to tie together Pell, scholarships, loans and any aid their state or their school might provide.
The Fed govt ain't sending anyone to college fo' free at this time.
I have been following the posts by Canadians on this board. I must say that I am not impressed. Also, it boggles my mind that Canadians are so interested in the USA. Most Americans couldn't give two shits about Canada.
Our fortunes are tied in more than one way.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-war-with-america-was-won-before-the-first-shot/
That says a lot. If Americans were informed about the world that exists outside their borders, the world would be a much better place.
Thought you lost interest in this thread. Glad to see you back. What have you been up to? Any good battles in Trolldom?
there you go again - wanting something for free i.e. someone elses expense. education is a product, just like healthcare or chewing gum.
We have a much better governmental system. Our problem at the moment is a douche bag named Stephen Harper who is trying to make it resemble the one you guys have.
Ya, my cousin is on her 1 year paid maternity leave at the moment. She's really enjoy taking care of her child.
I would never want to live in US. I believe in a system in which all citizens are helped equally.
Could you please tell us more?
Like what?
I've heard about this guy, very conservative. Why are YOU happy there? What is Harper doing to louse up things?
One of the main differences between Canada and US is that we have never feared social programs. We have universal health-care, welfare, government help for universities, maternity leave, allowances for children, etc... Essentially, Harper wants to make Canada more private and throw away our social programs. He's against same-sex marriage, and the fact that Canada has two official languages. He's essentially far right, and that's strange in Canada.
Us has always been in opposition with Russia, and now China. US is all about pure capitalism, the individual, where Russia, and China are the extreme opposite. When Hilary Clinton tried to pass a health care bill, she was shut down by the American right. They made a smear campaign and compared her program to communism. I think Americans have been lied to by their government. All social programs are considered like communism and almost an act of treason. It's like they want to defend ultra capitalism at all cost.
Thank you for your excellent reply. How did someone like Harper get elected in the first place? He sounds counterintuitive to what you guys have established. Many here in the US think that you guys are over-taxed, but at least you're getting something for your money. Working class citizens in the US do not have a voice anymore. Long Live OWS!
Stephen Harper got in because the left fractured and the votes were divided. Only 37% of voters chose Harper. Canada used to be like US for the longest time. We essentially had two parties. The Liberals (left like Democrats) and the Conservatives (right like the Republicans). Just before Harper got in power, the Liberals were in power, but a few of their top officials got caught in a corruption scandal. After this, they lost many supporters. The NDP which is also leftist, got stronger as some of the Liberal voters went on that side. In the last few years, the left votes have been separated between the Liberals and NDP, while the right votes all go to Harper. That's the story in a nutshell.
I heard that you guys have a three party system. I totally understand how the votes get peeled away, it has happened here repeatedly even though we don't have an "established" 3rd. party (Perot, Nader, R. Paul, etc.). The biggest problem (in my opinion) is the fact that about half of the working class in this country do not vote in their own best interests! Is there anything being done to roust Harper from office before he destroys a mgood thing?
He just got elected with a majority this year. Not much to do right now. A lot of protests, crossing our fingers, and hoping the four years will go by quickly. The latest thing Canadians are pissed off about is that Harper sided with US and voted against Palestine joining UNESCO. That was a pretty big deal for a lot of people.
Hold on tight, sounds like we are all in for a bumpy ride"
He hurt me deeply. Hold me!!!
Ya I think it's going to get pretty bumpy all across North-America. It's hard to predict what it will be like in 20 years.
Thanks for "calling out" MikeYD. I am tired of his oral diarrhea.
"Canada used to be like US for the longest time. We essentially had two parties..."
Except the laws passed in the Canadian parliament are subject to "royal assent". The Canadian parliament exists at the discretion of the Queen and her governor general. It's not like the USA at all. It'd be nice if Canada became a true republic, but right now it's owned 100% by the British crown.
There are many differences of course. The British crown thing is mostly symbolic, I don't think it is too important at this point. We have much more important matters to fry, like finding a way to get Harper out.
Symbolic? I don't think the Canadian armed forces are called the "Royal" army for symbolism. It'll stand up in court. The british crown owns Canada. Look it up.
Actually they weren't the Royal Canadian Armed Forces until just recently, when the right-wing Stephen Harper reinstated the use of "Royal". It was actually a very popular move, because it reaffirms our heritage. I'm no fan of Harper but it's one of the few things he's done that I can agree with (even a stopped clock gets the time right twice a day, and I'm not above giving credit where credit is due).
I'm not against the symbolic presence of the Queen, either. The Queen has basically no powers, except one, which is Royal Assent. This is a check and balance in our system - and a bipartisan one at that, something the US lacks.
Also it's basically never been used (there was a provincial Governor-General who used it in the 1950s, I think, but that's it). What its for is if something happens like what happened in Germany in the 1930s. There was no bipartisan check and balance to prevent Hitler from granting himself absolute power by passing the Enabling Act, but here, Royal Assent to the bill could be refused and stop it cold in its tracks.
Sure, I know. But when have they used that power and made any decisions for Canadians?
Whenever they want
You still haven't answered my question. Please answer it before we move on to yours. Why the red herrings?
"I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada and fulfill my duties as a Canadian citizen"
Citizenship oath of Canada. Why make people say it? Why put it in the passport that you are the queen's subject? Because you are.
You didn't answer the question. I asked when have they, not when will they. In any case, it's not as simple as you think. If UK suddenly decided to act on this, it wouldn't pass. It's symbolic in practice.
like when quebec tries to seperate... what do you think a "crown lease" is?
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How is that a contradiction? I'm not concerned if you change the way your government works. It's your country and you should mold it the way you want. I don't live in US. If you want to keep wasting your taxes with wars waged all over the world, it's not my problem.
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Where did I condemn a country for its social system? I condemned US for going to war. Are we reading the same posts? Are you illiterate or something? ??? I'm baffled.
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You accuse me of things I never said, because you can't even read basic English. You make no sense, and end up looking like a fool.
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You accuse me of something I never did, then you refuse to clarify yourself. The problem is, you are not a very smart individual.
More adhoms. Have you really sunk so low?
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We have the best neighbors on the planet !
I am Canadian
I feel the same way, I am American, and can't stand how some folks bash you guys on this post. Could you contribute a bit of your opinions as to why you think this?
Well .. I have never lived in fear of America. Even though you guys are the most powerful you have never threatened us. You havean admirable quality of honor. and probably the most important.. you fight for justice .. and you stand up in the face of danger.. I fear not my neighbors because I know they will treat me justly. The americans are kind hearted and they are willing to give everyone a moment of respect..
That's very true, generally we're up for a good fight anytime. I myself detest bullies and will "throw down" sometimes too quickly for my own good. "look before you leap" they say (odd, that a country that stands up to bullies is known as a bully itself). Diplomacy is one of Canada's strong points and many American's consider this being sissies, homo, wimpy, etc. Pick your slur, but most are something along this line. You only have to browse this thread to see that. I'm trying to counter that, and maybe get a few people to think a bit about a neighbor that always has our back, buys American made products for their own good knowing it benefits their own economy, and more.
As far as kind-hearted and respectful, well while this maybe true for many, but it's not the case for an ever growing minority and I find that troubling. Anti Gay Rights lobbying is big business in this country. You guy have gay marriage, and a live-and-let-live-attitude.
P.S. Oust Harper before he ruins it for you guys. Reminds me of neokons
The gay marriage is a bit of an embarassment. ..and we have a group of "slurs" here to .. please try not to listen to them they do not speak for the whole .. and those people of slurs are basically miserable in their own skin. nice chatting with you neighbor !
What do you mean by an embarrassment? Are their rights not equal there? Please tell me more.
well , because it is a Canadian Law .. we now all get painted with the same brush .. but in all fairness not everyone supports gay marriage in Canada .It is being forced upon us to accept it.personally , yeah live and let live .. it's been a few years now since the law has been passed .. and people are sorta getting used to the idea .. and not much is being said about it .. Myself I wish they would have put homosexuality under the microsope and find out what it really is ? surely a disorder not ? like down syndrome ? were they born with it .. or is it something developed like alcoholism? some people are affected by it and others not .. perhaps if it was considered an illness the focus would be on treatment .. I don't know .. I'm not homophobic .. nor am I homosexual . The reality is that some people are .. and they have their lives to live .. as do we all.
"Live and let live" is a good standard to live by. Another is; "Do unto others as you would have done upon yourself" (The Golden Rule). Seems now that the new rule of thumb is; "those with the gold make the rules". But with hindsight and the more I learn of history it seems that this may have always been the case.
Oh Canada.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ_R-G_i4Xk
Ah, canada....the same Arrogance as France, only closer. Only difference, who could surrender faster?
Well Joyce, the Canadians (unlike France) have always had our backs in every major confrontation that the US has gotten into. Same with England and Australia. They are a scrappy bunch not known to walk away from a fight. Just look at Canada's national pastime, Hockey. It's as violent as it can get. Blood on the ice at almost every game. They throw down at a seconds notice, and only get a short "time-out" as a penalty. I'm amazed that it never took off in the US the same way. In my opinion, it's not good to trash someone that has your back.
Yes, I will never forget the landings at Juno....but can't escape the modern extreme elements here today...
Alas, no.
And so, you acknowledge the influence here?
Clarify please. Also wasn't sure what you meant by the Juno reference.
D-Day
Also to mention NATO participation and involvement with middle-eastern campaigns.
At least in Canada most of them use deodorant!
Cooper Union is a fully funded free 4 year school. All books, tuition and housing are paid for. The only problem is you cannot study Sanskrit and medieval aboriginal history , like most of you want to do. They require you actually study something that will result in gainful employment. Like Electrical Engineering, but tat requires advanced math, ugh.
Sounds good to me. This old hippie loves to work and make money to support my hippie ways, make my house payment, car payment (Chevy), insurance payments, etc. I am a modern day hippie, but abhor subsistence. I own my business and I have created jobs in the past being in the construction industry. Now I am barely making it, and I am my only employee. I look to the future.
Canadians have more suicides per capita than the Unites State, with a fraction of the population. This thread is ridiculously false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Canada ranks 47th. in alcohol consumption, US is at 57th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption
Suicide Rates: Canada 34th., US is 39th. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_raten
Happiness rate: US is 13th. canada is 17th. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lif_hap_net-lifestyle-happiness-net
Oddly enough Haiti is at the bottom of the suicide list, as poor as they are.
I would explain that by saying that a lack of sunlight causes or exacerbates depression.
True, people in the Netherlands will spend time in front of or under H.I.D. lighting to help combat this. It's an actual condition caused by lack of light and UV exposure. I bet there's plenty of those around in "Vansterdam" (BC's version of Amsterdam) and the rest of Canada. Marc Emery is a bit of a hero there, eh?
That may be true, but it has stimulated some good dialog and it has served it's purpose.
Canada always seems to forget they would be nowhere without our technology. Nowhere, Canadians. You would all be lumberjacks building cabins for rich Scandinavians.
For that matter where would the entire world be without our innovations?
exactly.
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Certainly not a Stanley Cup, that's for sure
Better beer.
LOL that's not true. Americans have access to any beer from any part of the World. I've tried them all. I still think American pilsners are the best.
A sense of security is paramount to forming a society.
A sense of security.
those that run the data base have free access to it
who says Canadians are happier? I'm an American who is very happy.
Just al question meant to stimulate intelligent discussion.
The key question is why Mexico is happier than both Canada and the USA. I posit it is because MExicns have realistic expectations from life.
Amen...
Hey V. While looking up some stuff on Wiki, I noticed Haiti had the lowest suicide rate. Odd, seeing that they are one of the worst-off countries in the world. Low alcoholism rates too.
I've got the solution ! all occupiers move to Mexico so they can be happy! Funny how the Mexicans will be waving to you on their way here lol!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada
when oil companies take oil out of the ground in Canada, a huge percentage goes back to "the crown" (you can figure out who that is). The queen is NOT symbolic in Canada as some clueless people on this thread seem to believe. She owns Canada and anybody who is in business there is kicking back billions up into the royal coffers. 1% control of North American resources if there ever was.
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Canadians have an unlimited supply of beaver. This is why they are happier
That is funny
oh and they have 273 million less people...just to crush your argument
please explain how a difference in population 'crushes your argument'
273 million less people to steal from you mean?
so basically you want free stuff. or stuff paid for by others
Absolutely not. Actually I enjoy working for a living and don't mind paying taxes as long as I'm being represented and getting something for my money.
They probably masturbate a lot since they are so miserable.
While looking up some stuff on Wiki, I noticed Haiti had the lowest suicide rate. Odd, seeing that they are one of the worst-off countries in the world. Low alcoholism rates too. I wonder how often their folks are "rubbin' one out" seeing that they're too poor to afford booze.
It's fun, and a great reliever of stress. You may be on to something.
If all you morons think it is better in Canada go there. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Will Do, Thank you. I won't miss the I'm better than everyone attitude that we're famously known for though. Keep on trucking asshole.
Ignorance is bliss, as the saying goes.
They are soulless. Give me the music of the US any day of the week. Nothing of interest comes out of Canada except a few mediocre comedians. And even they got the hell out of there.
Canada is lame. But they do own OWS and this site. They don't have their own soul, so they'll take yours.
Clearly, fat American, you have never heard of Rush.
I weigh 102 pounds because I dance a lot. Rush? Is this verbal irony?
Clearly, malnourished American, you have never heard of Trooper.
But aside from that, musical taste is a subjective business and has nothing to do with politics. So lets talk politics. Your country has the largest prison population in the world, a great number of whom are nonviolent offenders. Nonviolent offenders get raped the most often. The conditions are brutal and savage, from both the de jure and de-facto rulers of the prisons, that being the guards and the gangs, respectively.
I can go on if you like, about your privatized prisons or about a myriad of other issues such as: The military industrial complex, increasing militarization of police, the "war on terror", prevalent racism and xenophobia, economic inequality, corporate influence of the government, skyrocketing obesity, a poor education system resulting in widespread ignorance... etc. etc. etc.
Oh, I wouldn't disagree with most of those things. But I'm talking art here. Is that against the Canadian forum rules? We are aware of your disdain for all things American - why else would Lasn's minions be working day and night to create this show?
I don't have disdain for all things American, just the vast majority. Actually, I will agree with you. Canada is for the most part far too nice of a place to live to have truly great art. Usually people channel pain and suffering into art, and you got lots of that down there.
Anyway, we are in the beneficial position of being able to enjoy American art without actually having to live in America.
Most people here aren't miserable. It's a large country with a large population. Inequality abounds, that's certain, but ask people who immigrated here and see if they want to go home. Does Canada have opportunities for immigrants? I'm seriously asking that - how do most Canadians there feel about people immigrating to Canada? Do they want to build a fence like these nut jobs?
Canada has many immigrants as well, with what seems to be a fair amount of opportunity. First generation immigrants often work shitty jobs for a while at least after immigrating, but their children have the opportunity to get ahead. There are many second generation immigrants in business and politics, and in fact there is a first generation Indian MP in Calgary.
He's a Conservative, and echoing his party line, wants stricter language requirements for immigration, which many on the left oppose. But it's safe to say that no significant number of Canadians want to build a fence to keep out immigrants.
Good to hear. I still feel that there are opportunities for immigrants here - at least for those coming from truly impoverished countries. While in Greece recently, however, I talked to quite a few Greeks who wanted to come to the US. I don't know that they would find things any better here - unless they had some family network in place. Indians, some Africans, Latinos from certain countries, yes, still better opportunities if they want them.
But aren't you enjoying the show? Your participation would imply that.
I do find some of the conversations on here to be interesting. But don't like what's happening in the parks or confrontations being displayed on the streets. They would be better served by salons/lyceums.
Let's see. They don't have the population we have. The don't have illegal immigration. They aren't the target of hatred and jealousy from around the World. That's just to name few.
Woah now, Okie. Nobody's gonna be jealous of you for long.
oh poor Canadian. You got a copy of Grapes of Wrath and suddenly you are a traveled man of the times.
Try to stick to topics where you are credible.
I'm sure you'll be this smug when you're under fascist boot-heels.
What are you jabberin about, hoser?
I've been to Canada. Torornto, Quebec, Montreal, Ottawa etc. I have swam in the St Lawrence. The scenery is beautiful. But don't be fooled into thinking we don't have places just as beautiful down here. Plus, it's not so damn cold, and the sun stays up longer.
You got nothin' on the United States. Nothing. We are the premier destination for for immigrants world wide.
Wait, don't you hate immigrants? Also, I wasn't talking about natural beauty. We didn't dig the St Lawrence and you didn't dig the Grand Canyon.
I am talking cold, hard politics, and in that sense America is a vile cesspool.
What are you talking about then? Better hockey rinks? Who fucking cares? What makes Canada the more desirable country?
If you start naming of bs answers like health care and education you have lost the debate.
Health care and education are bs answers? So what aren't, then? You're better because you have a bigger army with cooler jets? A higher obesity rate? Lower taxes on the rich? NASCAR?
you are so uber-patriotic, nobody can qualify in your eyes. must be very frustrating.
are you referring to me personally, or Americans in general? Either way you would be right.
The whole FACT that more people immigrate here than anywhere else proves that capitalism works.
Capitalism "works" for a tiny minority at the expense of the vast majority.
Corporatism you mean..two different beasts..One is collectivist the other is not!
No, I say what I mean.
Sorry my mistake.
I mean to say...You are deadwrong!
We have Corporatism today. The merger of Big Corp/Bank with corrupt Govt.
Capitalism is the free exchange of goods and services where markets react to supply and demand and are held accountabile through sound monetary policies and a solid legal justice system. Two things we do NOT have today!
Capitalism is an economic and political system in which trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
Free market capitalism is not about creating competition but eliminating it. Thus the "free market" GOP platform of eliminating all government regulation.
Sorry pal, I don't do permalinks..
It is obvious this site is riddled with admins who control.
As for namecalling...I said IF you truly think Capitalisms only requirement is profits you are indeed a first class Id*ot! Because the Nobel Peace prize winners who have defined true free market capitalism or the founders of this nation that have CLEARLY have stated the REQUIREMENTS...............that are a MUST for Free market Capitalism to work.
WITHOUT IT as today's society indeed reflects ( read Leftwing Constitutional scholar Glenn Greenwald) it does and cannot work.
its not Capitalism that is failing. it is the collectivist Corporatism that is. It is WELFARE for the Corporations and Banks at the expanse of the taxpayer![
Time to go back to your castle, estate, or kennel.
nucleus1 points 1 hour ago
The only requirement of capitalism is PROFIT
Then you are a first class...Id*ot!
There is NO such thing as a system that will function without any form of regulation. With Capitalism that is 1) a solid legal system 2) sound monetary policies...as Nobel Peace Prize winner in economics Friedrich Hayek explicity describes in his works.
No wonder you don't get it!
Disagreeing with others doesn't make you stupid. Insulting others demonstrates stupidity.
Regardless, you might want to consider expanding your reading list.
Corporatism, also known as corporativism, is a system of economic, political, or social organization that involves association of the people of society into corporate groups, such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labor, military, patronage, or scientific affiliations, on the basis of common interests.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism)
The basic idea of corporatism is that the society and economy of a country should be organized into major interest groups (sometimes called corporations) and representatives of those interest groups settle any problems through negotiation and joint agreement. In contrast to a market economy which operates through competition a corporate economic works through collective bargaining.
(http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/corporatism.htm)
corporatism : the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction
RonPaul twists it (of course): Corporatism is a system where businesses are nominally in private hands, but are in fact controlled by the government. In a corporatist state, government officials often act in collusion with their favored business interests to design polices that give those interests a monopoly position, to the detriment of both competitors and consumers.
(http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul665.html)
Ummm no not exactly.
Capitalism is an economic system that has requirements in order for it to work. It demands a solid justice system and sound monetary policies. The government works as a referree overseeing the process.
Corporatism is the merger of Big Cor/Banks and corrupt Govt.
The only requirement of capitalism is PROFIT.
So, using your logic, most potential immigrants wanting to migrate to the United States are total idiots.
The collapsing global economy is proof that capitalism "works".
There is nothing capitalist about unionized nations.
yes people around the world are soooo jealous of our war mongering, psychopathic, fascist, Corporate police state.
Yep, the immigrants crossing our border are really just trying to get to Canada!
Since when do Republicans/Tea Partiers consider illegal immigrants "people"?
Again with the "if they disagree, they must be a tea-partier Republican" The only time I voted for a Republican leader was when David Duke was running against a Republican for governor. Waited in line for an hour, but we kept him from winning that election.
BTW, I don't want a fence around my country. But if people are risking their lives to get here, there must still be a glimmer of hope here.
Have you read about all the jobs unfilled for apple orchards in the NW? Apples are rotting because the migrant workers are afraid and left. 1000s of jobs there and US citizens don't want them. Why not allow temporary work visas to help both parties out here?
People risking their lives to get here have
A. Been crushed by the International Corporate Machine in their own countries.
and
B. Bought into the lie of the "American Dream."
They come here because they mistakenly think things are still better here. And how are they rewarded? They work for slave wages, no medical care, they suffer racism, classism, and hate crimes. They are herded en masse into low income Barrios and Ghettos. They crushed here every bit as badly as they were in their country. It's sad.
Oh, it's sad alright, but not as sad as the villages they come from and the lack of jobs there. However, with work visas they could come here without fear and bring their earnings back to their home. What we see as a pittance goes a long way in other places.
What we see is as a "pittance" doesn't even go a long way HERE. Without food stamps, 50 million people in this country would starve to death. They are not being paid enough to feed themselves adequately.
And no offense, but I grew up poor in this country. In one of the poorest counties, in one of the poorest states, a Mexican village would have been a welcome change of pace. At least in South American society people care, and look out for, each other rather than incessantly disparaging their lazy, filthy, hippie, neighbors.
America is a HELLHOLE, where millions of Slaves are crushed like grist for a nighmarish mill. Wake up, seriously, for the love of God, just wake up. You're living in Candyland.
Oh Lord. You need to look around the world. Americans don't have a clue what being truly poor is. Even you. 1.6 billion people on this planet live without electricity, and that's just for starters. There are problems here, that's for sure, but nothing like the troubles in other places. This melodrama is so tired. People in Somaia would dig the hell out of those food stamps. Good night. Enjoy your internet and access to the communication age.
I have lived without electricity: check I have lived without knowing how I'd eat another day: check I have been homeless and slept in a shelter and/or abandoned house: check.
Sorry but I do "know what truly poor is" unless you think the only poor people on Earth are Sub-Saharan Africans, in which case, I'd humbly submit you do not know what poverty is.
Have you spent your entire life that way? They do. check. shellter? they don't have it. check. no way to communicate EVER in their lives. check. you think it's just people in Africa living like this? no check. Somalia is what's happening now. check. happens all over the world in many countries. check. been to Africa and India and south and central America and China and Viet Nam. seen it. check. women treated like dirt in the middle east. check. your mom ever get beaten for not covering her head? no check.
and on and on. I've seen a lot of deep and perpetual suffering on this planet.
but you enjoy that power source. check.
Ah yes, the anti America American. Pull it together bub.
Jealousy is a huge factor in why many hate us.
Bahahaha, yeah, I wish I could be obese and ignorant. Keep dreaming.
Feel free to refute any claim I just made. Is US not a fascist Corporate empire? The .01% control the Gov't, the Main Stream Media, and the "left" and "right" wing reactionary political movements. Is the US not a police-state? Scott Olsen (and anyone with Youtube) has good reason to think it is, as do unlawfully harassed and brutalized protestors and everyday citizens around the country. Or did you never watch the video of the Rodney King beating?
Is the US not a warmongering state? Tell that to the MILLIONS of people whose lives have been ironically ruined by our Quixotean hunt for non-existent weapons of mass destruction.
It may be, but when you spread this kind of nonsense, you bring down the moral of the People. You make us look bad and give people in other nations reasons to hate us.
No one needs me to give them a reason to hate this country. This country is run by psychopathically greedy Corporate goons, who have literally bought the Gov't so they and their cronies could turn it into a Banana republic.
And in case you have not noticed, morale is already at an all time low, how could I lower it? What brings down the people's morale is the decision they have to make on a daily basis betweening having a home and feeding their children.
Let me ask you something. I am curious how many OWS supporters feel about NWO. Do you think that is happening?
Can't speak for anyone but myself. But I am against any Gov't run by Fascist Corporate goons, whether it is a one world Gov't or a neighborhood Watch.
What if it's bigger than American corporations? What if your sites are set too low?
I have not said one word about "American" corporations. I said "corporations" simpliciter...American, European, Asian, they've all carved up our Gov't and society...they're all guilty, we should expect them all to pay.
What if it's part of NWO? That's what I am trying to get at. If so, what the hell is protesting going to do. We need to be smarter than this. There has to be better solutions. If all this is going on behind our backs, don't ya think our retaliation should be behind their backs?
Getting a bunch of 20 somethings to make fools of themselves only draws attention to the resistance.
Nothing is going on behind our backs. They are stabbing us in the gut and robbing us right under our noses. And no, the resistance has to be seen, felt, heard, frequently and loudly.
Sorry man. I think there is more going on than the eye can see.
I remember when my wife went to Europe to intern. They warned her not to tell strangers she was from the US, but Canada for her own safty.
Actually they do have illegal immigration. Lots of people want to live there, and many don't wait for the "system" to approve. I want to move there, but won't do it until it's legit.
Canadians don't share a porous border with a county that speaks a different language. They also don't have the media we do. Our media is a huge cause of unhappiness in America.
Plus, I don't not necessarily believe Canadians are a happier people. How do you measure happiness?
They have a queen. A european queen.
Why is the largest country in North America owned 100% by a European crown? Why do it's "citizens", subjects of that crown, still proclaim their loyalty to a European monarch? When will these "citizens" of Canada join the rest of us North Americans here in North America?
The crown, like England's, is merely a "figurehead". No real power.
Not so. The British crown owns Canada. Look it up sometime.
How is this possible? Please tell me that you're not living in the 19th. century. Where might I find this factoid to look up?
this is from the govt of manitoba website, current as of November 2011
http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/c340e.php
there's a ton of info, just look it up. "crown land", "commonwealth", "queen of canada", "crown lease", whatever. There's a reason everything in Canada including the army and the police are referred to as "her majesty's royal this and that". It always amazes me people are so ignorant on this, neither Canada nor Australia are true republics, they are crown "territories", redefined sometime in the mid-20th century as "commonwealth nations" or something like that. The crown NEVER relinquished those territories.
It seems that this is "on paper" only, and not enforced. Why isn't England taking advantage or control of Canada's resources if they are "owned" as you say? I admit I have a lot to learn about such matters, but I am willing to learn. This is what this forum should be like, not just slinging poo about.
The queen has the power to declare war, over and above any power her various parliaments have. She can declare war on behalf of Canada regardless of what Stephen Harper's government may say about it. You need to get your facts straight.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/oct/21/uk.freedomofinformation
Velveeta, I stand corrected, but I don't understand how the citizens of these Dominions or Commonwealth States would allow their resources to be usurped in this modern age. I've known some Aussie's and Canucks, and they are a scrappy bunch that don't like being taken advantage of (much like myself). I was under the impression that these countries were under self-rule.
let's say. for the sake of example, that the Queen, in conjunction with her UK ministers, decides that Canada needs to go long with them to war against Iran. And let's say that the prime minister and his parliament in Ottawa go against it. The Canadian generals are all sworn allegiance to the queen, not the local government. The governor general of Canada would immediately sack the prime minister, and Canada would go to war. This has happened before, in the 1970s in Australia, when the queen sacked a prime minister!
Wow, learning all the time!
http://outernode.pir.sa.gov.au/minerals/licensing_and_regulation/fees_rents_and_royalties/mineral_royalties
heres another from australia. this is not "on paper", these are the laws, the royalties are collected and enforced to the tune of billion$
its not a secret, just do your homework
Thanks, I'll check this out when I get back. I have to go pick up the wife now. I looked at that first link, too much info. Could you direct me to a particular page? This site is huge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law#Commonwealth_Citizenship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_land#Canada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_ownership_in_Canada
Velveeta, I have checked out all these links and read all i could about Canada's Political system, but can't find any reference to money going to Britan, only to the "crown". Is the Queen pictured on Canadian money the same queen that lives in England? Or do they just share a moniker?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Privy_Council_for_Canada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28th_Canadian_Ministry
Read through it. In all of her jurisdictions or territories, the queen has set-up a seperate "crown", via which she owns and controls all land, resources and settlements via those local governments. Whether she chooses to actively participate, or to actively spend the royalties that hve been pid to each of these "crowns", the bottom line is, it belongs to her, and each "crown" exists as it does via her prerogative. The governments, people, industries, etc... that exist in Canada, all exist at her pleasure, they did not invite the "crown" in, it's the other way around. They don't "share" their wealth and resources with her, she shares it with them as she chooses. Get it straight.
And the citizenry is OK with this?
are you brain dead?
"Since Canada uses primarily British-derived common law, the holders of the land actually have land tenure (permission to hold land from the Crown) rather than absolute ownership." Wikipedia
Please send link to this info. I want to learn more.
what are you talking about there is crime like hell over there you don't hear about it because they pay the cops nothing so they never come to report it or help. They are worse than us.
Facts please. I said violent crime. Statistics bear this out. Their murder and violent crime rates are a fraction of what they are here in the states.
What are you two? No violent crime? Are you nuts? Free Education? It's not free, you have to pay for it! NO housing bubble? Guess you missed that one they had about 15 years ago. Free Health care. No it's not free and it is rationed. That's why many Canadians, like my partner get their health care in the US. Canadians are not happier. That's just plain stupid. How could you say something like that. They are mostly miserable pancake eating bad beer drinking hockey grunts with a group inferiority complex hoping to become the 51st state. But I digress.
Please direct your hate elsewhere. Why do you have to be so insulting? Are you Canadian? If so tell me more and back it up with something, If not, go watch Fox News and leave us alone.
Fuck you. You are stupid! Get a job!
Got one asshole, pay taxes too. Own my own company. You? What are you doing home during the day other than stinking up this forum?
Fucking with you dickhead!
I rest my case.
Non Canadian. It is obvious that they don't have the population problems that we have here in the US. One great Canadian feature is that their news is about news not ratings.
the question is what don't they have that we do.....
And who says they are happier, btw?
Way more alcoholism wife beating child raping dog kicking and eskimo beating.
ask your local canuck about the local police blotter.
"man beats underage eskimo wife to death with dog" Pretty standard.
Instant Asshole, Just Add Alcohol. Do you drink?
Sounds like an angry canuck to me?
you should be happy in the sun down there, eh?
and don't be slapping your wife too much in public in Floriday, they don't take too kindly to it. Even if you are part french.
He's from Florida.
you idiot
LMAO
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back this claim up with a factual statistic
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these are facts, check it out!
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Canadians soldiers are exceptionally brave poeple and have participated in some of the toughest fighting in history. They, in point of fact, outright defeated the Americans, when the Americans tried to invade Canada. They are credited with our first major military defeat in history, as it were. They are kind enough not to mention this and they simply refer to our invasion force, as the enemy from the South, usually.
Aww. Are we at the "My big brother can beat up your big brother" point in this conversation? I thought we were just summing up the Canadians (And accurately I might add).
why so much hate?
I do not believe any of this BS you're saying. I was born in the US in the 60's, in Michigan. I have spent time in Canada. These people and their country have a lot to be proud of. And they are one of only a handful of countries that always have our back, they are warm and welcoming, and their opposing political parties actually do put differences aside to work out social issues. Don't trash it until you've been there, or spent time actually talking with a few.
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I'm sure your in good company. Plenty of right wing jerk-offs here in this country. If your parents have the same views as you, they were probably run out of town. Are your parent's green cards still valid after all these years, or are they here illegally?
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Only a cross dresser could spot cross dresser. What's your favourite outfit.
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A lot of Canadians go south only temporarily. Many go in Florida during the winter. Usually retired folks who want some sun. With a stronger Canadian dollar, they also benefit by having more purchasing power.
I know, I live in South Florida. I have had many Canadian clients over the years. I am a self-employed finish carpenter, and love Canadians. They spend a lot of money down hear, which is a big help to Florida's economy. I am a small business man (the smallest). I am my only employee. When I get a Canadian client I like to talk to them and learn about what they have going on. I, unlike some others on this thread actually want to communicate intelligently, and maybe learn a thing or two.
Ya, these boards are unfortunately filled with a lot of people with too much time on there hands who simply like to go around and post uncreative boring thrash.
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Real estate is an investment. With a stronger dollar, and since your housing bubble burst, US houses are cheap for us to buy. We can go there, enjoy the summer, than come back home if we are sick and need free health care.
As for your government, it doesn't matter to me if it changes. The more you wage wars and waste your money, the more we profit. Morally, I would like you to stop wars all around the world, but economically, that's find by me. It's not my taxes.
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I'm not an economist. You're asking the wrong person.
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I didn't acknowledge anything. I simply said I am not an economist, and so cannot comment on the issue. Perhaps it is, perhaps it's not. If you feel happier in US, then you should stay there. We only have one life, it's not worth it if we aren't happy.
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This makes you Sadistic.
Your happiness should not come at the expense of others. This is only one reason Americans have the reputation that they do abroad. It's no wonder that US travelers going to certain foreign countries are told that they should say they are from Canada.
I do believe that one should not obtain happiness from inflicting their beliefs on others, and I do believe that practice is one of the things taht earns us a bad reputation abroad. In fact, some dickhead from Florida said this to me just a few posts ago:
Basically, the guy is telling me that my beliefs, which he considers "Right wing", make me a jerk off worthy of running my family out of town. I'm trying to think of who that dip shit hypocrite might be. CAn you help me out here?
How am I inflicting my beliefs on others, and how does one inflict beliefs?
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It's funny how you accuse people of doing things they did not do, then you can't back up your claims. You are like a child in a grown man's body. A man-child.
Canadians or the only few that help inject tourism in the US. Tourism is dead idiot.
Maybe it is in Texas, but here in Florida it's doing very well. Much money being spent, we have a lot to offer down here. Who the hell wants to vacation in Texas with people like Rick Perry and you running about?
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Celine Dion for one and they have french canadians too
A dollar coin that people use?
I did get a kick out of the 'free' education and 'free' health care. Ask a grown-up how that 'free' works.