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Forum Post: When will we admit that the things we say matter, when the crazy people get microphones people die, today in Aurora CO.

Posted 2 years ago on July 20, 2012, 10:32 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ
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266 Comments

266 Comments


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[-] 8 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

Who was responsible?

James Holmes. End of list

Anybody blaming any political party or OWS or whatever is just trying to exploit a horrific situation for their own gain.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

No that isn't the question. Do you want to condone it happening again or are you willing to do something to prevent it? You don't mean "end of list". "End of thought about it", is what you mean. "I know it will happen again and I just don't care enough to change one single thing. I prefer the status quo so much that no consequences are terrible enough to change my mind. Not now, not ever."

If a bus load of children swerve into a bridge railing and the bus goes over the side and all end their lives in a fireball; do you, upon finding the driver's name say, "Who is responsible? John Doe. End of list?" You would have no interest in who changed parts in the steering mechanism? The manufacturer of the parts that were replaced? Who checked the bus after a previous accident? The manager who sent the driver on that run knowing that he had just completed a 27 hour run twenty minutes before beginning this one? The manager who set the policy setting no limit on the number of hours of continuous driving? The person who changed lanes without signaling just ahead of the bus?

Do you have more than one standard for dealing with tragedies that involve people? Do you really believe that every tragedy involving people is always the sole responsibility of the one individual most directly involved and absolutely no one else? Do you believe that courts should use only this policy?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

whoever loaded the bus with combustibles

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

some would look to America's selling of arms around the world as being a contributor to the violence we see, I think I agree up to a point as I think those who sell firearms and promote laws to make those sales easy contribute to violence like what we saw in Aurora

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Who benefits from the tragedy in Aurora? The 1% who fears an armed 99%.

Plus there are many, many anomalies. http://occupywallst.org/forum/hello-aurora-shooter-james-holmes-mentor-admits-to/

[-] -3 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

Cannot blame it on guns and if he did not have any then he probably would have made a bomb

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I remember when there were only 100 million guns ion America now it's 300 million and these thing are happening about every year, when we get to a billion will it be every week?

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[-] -2 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

If we had no guns then they people would use other methods

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

They must not know “other methods” in other countries, considering how much they lag behind in senseless deaths.

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[-] 1 points by Freedom2100 (25) 2 years ago

Whether James Holmes was brainwashed in some way, who's to say? Here's what I think is more important: I have read up on sources, including discussions about MKULTRA, that provide at least some circumstantial evidence that a MASS brainwashing program was either contemplated or implemented in the 1970's. Where I think this has implications...whether the source is the CIA, NSA, corporate/media/advertising/military complex or some combination is what the impact on history was. For example, the sharp turn to the right in our society, especially with folks in my age group (mid/late baby boomers) in the late 1970's/early 1980's was no accident. And from that impact on history we face the myriad challenges we have today. However, I will say it is certainly refreshing to see how people (for the most part) speak freely here on this website versus the rather superficial and stilted communication modality we see on Twitter, Facebook and the like (some might argue that's an example of brainwashing right there)!

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

As far as MKULTRA goes, I don’t think we are that smart yet, but consider this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=7aWEZhkBSdwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=sociopath+next+door&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zRbCT92_JoSC2wWG64Vy&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=sociopath%20next%20door&f=false

What with 4% sociopaths now, it being genetic, and the 1% separating themselves more and more:

http://www.nytimes.com/pages/national/class/

and being a sociopath helping people get into the 1%

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/08/01/rule-by-sociopaths/

well I think you can see where I’m going with this.

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I had heard about the "dream reader" tech advances

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I had a very close friend for many years who was also a sociopath there may well be over diagnoses, but this condition is real, it is dangerous, and it is genetic, to address the entire DSM in order to discuss this expands the discussion unnecessarily I believe, but it is no doubt a subject within itself, custody in divorce is also a hugely affected by bullshit from the DSM, but that’s something else, I really don’t even want to “defend” the position to me that borders on pushing a particular spiritual view. I offer it only to those who wish to look. .

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[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

It is vain and foolish to think that micky "D" spends billions to do nothing, yet people rail in anger when one says "as a child I was affected".

I should apologize if I seemed too dismissive in the beginning, as is usually the case in such matters there may have been intent, but still my bad,

I do think there has been huge investment both known and unknown into shaping how we view the world, and to insure that view benefits those who paid to make us think that way.

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[-] 0 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

You're being too humble, Zen.

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[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Life is sometimes all to harsh and cruel and if we could only just manage to do the right thing or the miraculous wouldn't that be fine - so very fine. Yes I have my regrets as well - please do not tear yourself up over being merely human. You have a great soul and you are doing the best as you can. Who can ask for more than that?


[-] 1 points by ZenDog (6130) from South Burlington, VT 2 minutes ago

Actually I was briefly denying that deep sense of shame and of guilt that I feel for having failed utterly to hold anyone accountable at all - and someone must, simply must, be held accountable, for having so thoroughly undermined her world view that she could not tolerate the physical and emotional vulnerability that goes with treatment and so instead she blew her brains out and all over the wall.

passive aggressive scumbags and their dirty little tricks . . .

But, you know . . . thanks for reminding me . . . . ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Is you fishing ZD you shameless poet you? SoK I like your writings and I think you are a very deep individual - and I quite like that you would share your personal thoughts and let others benefit from them.


[-] 1 points by ZenDog (6130) from South Burlington, VT 0 minutes ago

I don't have either one of these on my website yet. I've only had them kicking around for a couple of years or so . . . guess that means I'm lazy . . .

Unless perhaps you feel that I have elevated this site with verse that may be difficult to find elsewhere . . . ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

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[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Like I said, kick-ass poem. It almost brings a tear to my eye, and I'm being entirely truthful. I know of suicide. As do you.

Welcome back, man, you were missed. Didn't get a chance to say it earlier.

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[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

You're not bullshitting me ZD. I've been to your website. Which reminds me, I never got a chance last winter to tell you that poem about the girl with the gun, (she only used it once) is a kick-ass poem. Dim-wits can't come up with that stuff.

There is no direct correlation between intelligence and success.

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

OH - I'm sorry - I bet you meant that comment/compliment for ZD and you replied to me by accident.


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (3603) 26 minutes ago

As to my comment about your intelligence, I rest my case. ;-) ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

there is only the now

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

They each speak for them self and are their own story as they should be. Thanks for sharing your creative expressions of thought.


[-] 2 points by ZenDog (6130) from South Burlington, VT 0 minutes ago

The Tongue

.

Stand naked and alone before the whole wide world -

Bleed beneath the knife in broad day light -

. . . . yet no one sees . . .

.

The mind convulsed with truths and bursting

fish upon the rapids leaping, bent to spawn,

intent to speak one word, one radient rainbow gem

sparkling bold and glorious . . .

.

The tongue clacks softly in an orifice of dust,

no other sound will utter;

the damned tongue no other sound will utter . . .

a rooster in the yard, ripe for plucking,

sans it's head and running -

the damned tongue no other sound will utter . . .

.

Plumb the depths of madness screaming . . .

.

While the people all around make merry, laughing . . .

Corpses leering, lined in rows

do not intrude upon these gay undead

. . . . for this is not allowed

and there is nothing left that one may say . . .

.

. . . . Welcome to Hell.

.

© D. Winter

May 2, 2009

.

.

This poem has metaphor, imagery, juxtaposition, even surreality, all appropriate to the subject matter. Jules by comparison is plain, or so it seems to me.

Perhaps it should be.

I just don't know. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

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[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

As to my comment about your intelligence, I rest my case. ;-)

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

I never knew her, now I do.

You've made her immortal, in a sense.

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I'm sorry was it good or bad. I mean would I consider it a compliment or an insult? ( I am so very insecure )


[-] 1 points by gnomunny (3603) 3 minutes ago

As to my comment about your intelligence, I rest my case. ;-) ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

right, the every day bombings and stabbings and beheadings of people by islamists all over the world....those bombs and machetes are really GUNS shaped into other forms that cut or explode bullets out of them.

senseless deaths? go to thereligionofpeace.com and take a look at the lists of islamic terror attacks. scores of them happen every day, and many do not involve guns. but you laughably believe they don't know "other methods" in other countries.

get your head out of your ass already.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

We run close to 5 homicides per 100,000 in a year, Europe is under 1, why the difference if guns don’t matter?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Culture.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20483) 2 years ago

Exactly.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

really? we don't have a European culture? I think folks are folks, and the biggest difference is we just got a lot more guns around, I think they would kill each other just about as much as we do, (and themselves, half of gun deaths are suicides, improving the gene pool one gut nut at a time) if they had the number of guns laying around as we do. They just decided it would be crazy to make it so easy for folks to kill each other, probably because they knew people get pissed off and do things they don’t mean to, but you can’t take the bullet back.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20483) 2 years ago

No. We do not have a similar culture to Europe. If we did, ALEC wouldn't have half the power it does.

Also, the reason they don't have guns in Europe, factsrfun, is because it is a different culture. It starts right there.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Our movies do very well there.

I think it starts with 300 million guns floating around, I think the death rates would be the same if they had the guns, and they would have the guns if the laws were the same, saying that Americans are just more violent, (or lazy, ect.) is a copout I think for those afraid to face the fact that we got way too many guns around here.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

see below

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Damn, facts, help a man out. Your response to whom (so as not to have to read thru the whole damn thread)?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

"really? we don't have a European culture? I think folks are folks, and the biggest difference is we just got a lot more guns around, I think they would kill each other just about as much as we do, (and themselves, half of gun deaths are suicides, improving the gene pool one gut nut at a time) if they had the number of guns laying around as we do. They just decided it would be crazy to make it so easy for folks to kill each other, probably because they knew people get pissed off and do things they don’t mean to, but you can' take the bullet back."

sorry these lines jump around I was trying not to be repetitive

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6647) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

That's understandable. The jumping around part, I mean. I don't think we have a European culture. I'm not sure there is such a thing. Although I don't know this for sure, I'm not sure violence is glorified and made 'cool' over there like it is here. Although the jury is still out, I'm absolutely convinced this is one of the reasons we're so violent, although I do concede we have also have a gun problem. The proliferation of violence in entertainment, at the very least, numbs you to violence and gore. THAT part has been proven scientifically. I just read a quote from one of our soldiers that basically said, in reference to killing, "it was just like a video game!" Also consider. Twelve dead in Aurora. You don't need a 100 round clip to do that. Just one box.

[-] -3 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"why the difference if guns don’t matter?"

I didn't say guns don't matter, I just disagreed with (and proved wrong) your absurd statement that other countries don't know "other methods" of mass murder.

it was ridiculous, and despite your weak and transparent attempt to swerve (for example, from "other countries" to "Europe"), it is still ridiculous.

believe it or not, you're going to make a mistake once in a while. everyone says things that they can't back up, and it doesn't mean your entire life has been a waste and a joke. stop treating a minor misstatement like it does, kid. lying or other forms of dishonesty used to "save face" on an internet message board is pretty lame.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

OK so I got your message you want America to be as safe as Mexico, I think we can do better, so yeah we disagree.

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"you want America to be as safe as Mexico"

still making shit up?

still unable to admit a little boo-boo?

still unable to admit your dishonest swerve from "other countries" to "Europe"

I'm becoming more and more sure you are a 9/11 truther. too many similarities to ignore.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

not sure how deranged you must be not to know there are "other countries" in Europe, I suppose you might have a point if I had said "all other countries" but then you would just find something else to lie about

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

I am sure how lame you have to be to pretend "other countries" and "Europe" are the same thing, and in the context even more so.

but as you have shown with your sudden shut-up-edness over the democrats using the target symbol, it's clear you're so full of shit you'll say anything to avoid losing face on an internet message board.

it's very, very lame.

did you look at the targets from democrat websites? did it sting like a MFer to be proven wrong like that? maybe when you get past puberty and reach adulthood you'll find the inner strength and maturity to admit you made a little boo-boo, safe in knowledge that it won't leave a scratch on you to do so.

[-] -3 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

Tens of thousands serve in Dallas for Restoring Love, media ignores Go Beck

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Is Beck developing those "other methods" you speak of? Do the people in the area know?

[+] -4 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

tens of thousands know

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

we can all hope that Beck is stopped before anyone gets hurt then

[+] -4 points by bearclaw (-152) 2 years ago

The loser in chief is the one that needs the boot

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Check the lunch boxes. It was high fructose corn syrup in everything inside and those flames were...ugly.

Drove through Aurora this evening. Theater parking was...typical.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

like going to wars over 911

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Those who oppose reasonable gun control should stand by their convictions in good times and bad. Be proud that this is how high a price you are willing to pay in order to be able to shoot cops if the government goes too far, in your opinion.

For the record I support more gun control laws because, in the first place I don't see me ever taking to violence and in the second things like this aren't nearly so common in civilized countries, but hey they get healthcare just cause their sick in places like that, too.

[-] 6 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

We would save a thousand times as many lives if we placed gun control laws on our president instead.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You will pretty much defend any right wing position, won't you? even guns

of course if I point out that we wouldn't be in these wars if people hadn't failed to support Gore with their speech and votes in 2000 esp. people like Nader who pie piper-ed 100,000 in FL and as it turns out gave Bush the White House, this shows that you never can be sure, you can never take a chance that a Republican might win.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

You really aren't interested in saving lives are you? At least not THOSE lives. Population control? Make everyone have all of the babies they can, then Mr. Glock and starvation thins out the un desirables? If we had the same per capita gun related deaths as the UK, that would save 8,500 Americans per year. How many did we lose this year in the non war in Iraq? The war in Afghanistan? I wonder what the Brits do differently?

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Localized gun violence is a terrible problem. International military violence is a gargantuan problem. There is no comparison between the two. What is more lethal? An armed civilian or an armed soldier?

We may find out soon if the present trend in loss of personal freedom continues.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I think there is a comparison. The scale is the difference, the principles are the same. Humans haven't learned to handle freedom much better today than they did in the 1600's, nor have they learned the lessons of oppression. Our progress in various aspects of human endeavor have taken giant steps forward. Making rational and compassionate judgements in dealing with others is not one of them. Yet we are seemingly unable to apply what we learn in one area to another. Curious don't you think?

Essentially wasting $700 billion on defense (intimidation really) seems absurd, when "getting along" with others has been done, could be and should be done. The $700 billion could be so useful in addressing other real needs.

How much better off are we than in the stone age? We can kill more people lots faster. But the broccoli only grows a little faster.

[+] -5 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

muslims are not interested in "getting along".

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

and Christians and Buddhists and LDS and .....

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[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

Good point.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That is supposed to be Congress.

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

And Congress represents the people. Sort of. Kind of. Some times. Not really.

[-] 1 points by Proteus (141) from Quebec, QC 2 years ago

That's a masquerade.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

They are supposed to. They are not doing a very good job of that at this point in time. But the People are supposed to guide government - and that is not happening very well either.

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[-] 0 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

you must have loved it when Clinton used Tim McVeigh to weaken talk radio, which was killing him at the time. Nothing like a good mass murder to weaken you opponents politically, right? You're a good hearted loving compassionate liberal who cares soooooooo much about what's right that anything goes. Why don't you go hold up signs at the funerals? Don't let those bodies go to waste! Use them to get Obama elected!

Or you could try being decent.

[-] -2 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Your first sentence....very good. The rest of your comment....huh?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

All I'm saying is that even if the reading of the second amendment is as the gun nuts says it is, an individual right, not a state right, then I still support more restrictive gun access in this country, because I feel the cost is too high and I am never going to "take arms" against my government anyway. The stuff about healthcare is just a reference to how where people care about each other they don't run around packing heat all day and they take care of sick people. Sorry for being cryptic.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

I have never owned a gun in my life, but I do not believe that people should not be able to own them mostly because of the proliferation of guns already out there. I wish that weren't so, but since it is, people do have a right to protect themselves. Two of my three daughters own guns for good reason though. One is a public defender in AK who has been threatened, and the other has a cabin in a fairly remote part of AK. They both care about people, and do their part to make this a better world. But yes I do agree with a ban on assault weapons. Yes your comment was a bit cryptic, but I understand you now. Thanks.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I remember in the eighties when I first started talking about this, people would say there are 100 million guns already nothing can be done. Now the number is 300 million, I wonder if something can be done when it is a billion.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

It is another problem that I do not have the answer for, but I definitely feel that there should be a ban on assault weapons. Vermont, and Florida use to have (maybe they still do) the most lax laws on gun ownership. VT had one of the lowest crime rates involving guns while FL had one of the highest crime rates.

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

if someone were threatening your life , you would not defend yourself?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I don't think the cops are going to threaten my life, the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with anyone right to defend themselves against another citizen, it is about the right to shot cops and congresspeople. like Giffords if you think the government has gone too far.

As far as threaten me, I've never used a gun, and it has never worked out too good for the aggressor, knock wood, but if your asking; I'd rather be in fist fight than a gun fight.

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

if someone breaks into where you live, and has a gun, your fists are meaningless.i wasnt talking about a cop threatening your life. you have no understanding of the 2nd amendment.

[-] 5 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The second amendment has nothing to do with someone breaking into your home. It refers to governmental action only.

[+] -5 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

.................."the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". before the bill of rights was written, before the USA was a country, people owned guns. for hunting AND self defense.

[-] 4 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

now that can mean short sleaves or anthrax and nuclear bombs which way do you read it? notice you left off the first part of that, do you always just read the parts you like?

"if someone has a gun you are meaningless" how could you say such a thing? what do you mean?

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

what are " sleaves"? if going to quote me , get it right. what is said was" if someone breakes into where you live, and has a gun, YOUR FISTS ARE MEANINGLESS.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

But you play fast and lose with the consitution? sure i guess you get to write the rules huh?

[+] -6 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

the US constitution, greatest document ever written by man. its easy to understand. it seems its beyond your limited intelligence.

[-] 4 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

As a document, it's no better than those who interpret it at any given time.

Poor interpretation is what gave us citizens united.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I really like the part about ensuring the common welfare…

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Yeah, that one gets misinterpreted a lot, by guess who?

Although the worst interpretation is done by the libe(R)tarians.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I think we do better, when we do it together.

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[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Factsrfun was exactly right. You are wrong and further more you have resorted to the insulting schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney.

You should be more respectful of those who can teach you how to debate properly.

[-] 2 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

You do realize that your contempt for those who don't interpret the Constitution as you do, shows how intolerant you are. Who died and made you the gate keeper of the American Constitution.

I don't believe the Founders were as arrogant and confident in the infallibility of the Document as you are. I believe your unwavering faith that your interpretation is the only true and proper interpretation is border line fanaticism. If you keep believing you are right and those who disagree are wrong, you are going to be eternally disappointed when others no longer see it the way you do. The only constant is change, and those who are beholden to the past find it hard to adapt to new realities. But I guess that is what makes you a unrelenting Conservative, huh?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Yet you feel the need to quote only part of the amendment makes one wonder what you left out, which makes all the difference, as I so brilliantly demonstrated by doing the same to your words.

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

no need to wonder, read it for yourself. you think you're brilliant? quite the opposite.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

not really my opinion so much as that of the doctors who looked into it,

“no need to wonder” so it was your intent to deceive about what the Constitution says, I would think you would have more respect for it than that

[-] -3 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

i can read you were not deceived.

[+] -7 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

If I was in that theater and armed, things would not have lasted that long.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

There just would have been more dead people, huh?

'Cause the NRA gave you X-ray vision.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Why how many people you figure that you would have killed?

[-] -3 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 2 years ago

An armed, properly trained citizen could have shot ONE person-the one actually opening fire on the innocent audience-and brought the body count down significantly, maybe even to ONE.

How long have you had this problem with determining the difference between an offensive act and a defensive one?

[-] 4 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

A crowded theater the lights are off you have light ( unreliable shifting jumping ) from the screen.

A guy enters and starts firing on the crowd = pandemonium chaos.

Your hero is where in the theater in relation to the shooter?

Grow-up.

The armed hero would have to be in the exact right position to take the nutter down.

[-] 2 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

To be fair, however, the movie theater probably would not have allowed a legally armed person inside, like many other places in the country that forbid firearms indoors.

I am not against firearms and even carrying them legally. At the same time I don't believe we want firefights going on between legally armed people and nutjobs like the theater shooter. Anyone that has handled firearms will tell you bullets go a long way, many times even after they've going through a human body.

[-] 0 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

that one victim survived a shooting in Toronto. Doesn't Canada have strict gun control laws? what happened there?

[-] -3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I think we first need to remember that there are 14k murders per year in this country. We are a messed up country, love violence.

Second, I think we need to remember that these incidences of people who are killing randomly (as opposed to the vast majority of murders that have a specific victim in mind) are so rare that its almost silly to think that we even need to think about how to stop them in the process.

That being said, if there was ONE armed and responsible person in that theater who was properly trained with a firearm, I can guarantee he would have been put down in 10 seconds.

[-] 4 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

The theater shooter seemed to have a good knowledge of weapon-handling procedures, aside from the fact that he used tear gas and possessed a gas mask himself.

Another armed person with equal or better training may have been able to stop the shooter or may have just caused an even bigger mess.

As you point out, so far mass shooters like the one in the theater are rare, but as our society continues to degenerate, we can probably expect an increase in the number of these mass melees.

[+] -4 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I shot expert my first time through at Parris Island. Granted that was 10 years ago, but my aim isnt that much more off.

I guy standing in front of a theater is not a hard target to hit.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

With armor on torso, head and legs, in the mostly dark, through tear gas and lots of bodies in full panic, jumping over seats. My money is on the shooter. Most likely you would be shot in the back by another citizen before your third shot.

If I knew that three people were carrying in the theater, I would stay home and watch reruns. Bet I am not the only one.

[+] -4 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I bet you aren't either. You'd be suprised how many people around you are that you never know about. They simply dont want to be caught with their pants down.

How often have you shot? All those people in that theater would have been better off if there was an ex military/cop in the crowd who was armed.

[-] 5 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I grew up with guns. Was responsible for providing meat all winter. It was a necessary tool. I was shot once by a hunter I was guiding hunting pheasants. I don 't shoot now because there is no reason to. We don't know that no one had a gun on them, do we? Since he started with a shot gun and had armor, anyone standing up to shoot might have got one off. The result? I doubt the outcome would have been different, but I am sure it makes you feel better to think so. Maybe you should carry a hand grenade? A flare gun so you would have light? Body armor? (It was about 85 outside at the time.) An attack dog? Claymores? RPG's?

[+] -4 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

haha... I just would like to think that having some way to stop someone like this is better than everyone sitting there like ducks.

[-] 4 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

No answer? Actually they weren't just sitting there. They were protecting each other, hurdling over each other to try to get out, everything from panic to heroism.

My brother lives about three miles from there and I used to be that close.

Being in the area, you hear a lot of anecdotal stuff. Some factual some not.

Fight or flight response is something impossible to calculate for a specific individual (even yourself). Sometimes they do one, in others the other.

If someone else stood up with a gun, the odds are much higher than zero that they would have been attacked. Proximity enters into it.

I have heard the numbers could have been much higher but the AR jammed. The 100 round mag seems like such a necessary sporting accessory?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nice comment - I find that those who have taken the time to consider varying scenarios that could possibly happen are the ones who will not get caught flatfooted/unprepared and then just have to randomly react - if they are not frozen in place with indecision.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Your right, you never can calculate flight or fight. You just have to go off past experiences.

If you stood up int the middle of that to shoot, you have no clue what you are doing.

You really didnt think I'd take the previous question about Claymores and rpgs seriously, did you?

All Im saying is that every single country, regardless of gun laws, has incidences like this. Our country is exceptionally violent, as evidenced by the media and the 14k murders per year.

Listen hind sight is always 20/20, and we can theorize all we want.

If you heard people were armed when they were at the grocery store, would you stay home from there too?

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

In my area, there is a lot of gang violence and there are some areas that are frequently in the news. Like any sane person I avoid the high incidence areas and areas around bars. I note the time of day. I was in a shopping enter when a gang shoot out occurred in San Diego in the middle of the afternoon. Shooters ran past within 6 feet. Had my wife and father in law with me. I quickly opened an elevator, took them to the top floor to an outside fire escape on the opposite side of the building. Took a circle route to our car and watched the rest of the action from our hotel room TV a mile away.

I am not afraid to go out but I avoid trouble and know where it is most likely to be. I have a nephew with a concealed carry permit. I suppose with his mouth he feels he needs it. A little self restraint would be cheaper and maybe as effective. I believe we would be safer with fewer guns in the hands of the people who believe they need them. The rest of us worry about cross fire. Every single country doesn't have the same per capita number of incidents as every other country. Zero isn't feasible but lower is better.

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

But we arent talking about cultural violence here, we are talking about freak violence. We are a VER?Y violent culture here, probably because we are spoiled and dont know better.

But there are freak incidents all over. Doesnt matter what the gun laws are. The most strict nations have terrorism. Doesnt matter.

All Im saying is we shouldnt jump all the way to gun control utopia. You want to do a better job registering them? Fine. I dont think it will matter but knock yourself out.

All Im saying is that if someone was armed in that theater and took him out, he would currently be a hero. But like I said earlier, 20/20 is what hindsight is all about.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

100 rounds. But it jammed.

In WW-II the Polish Jews were forced to make bombs. Many detonators failed to work. If we do what we can...

Sometimes conscience isn't enough. Some will try to make sure it happens again.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yeah sure whatever - who do you stink you are (?) 00 schmuck(?) I mean 7?

[-] -3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

You would have to be a really bad shot, or really inexperienced to miss a target like that.

I think we have to remember that there are 14k murders a year in this country, its a horrible culture we have created here. The media pushes violence at all levels (games, tv, radio). These incidents where there is senseless killing happen so rarely that it almost doesnt make sense to try to think of what we could do to prevent them, short of an all out prison state.

That being said, I would have put him down quick, and if he took me out in the process then so be it. Im not standing by while some shithead kills people right in front of me. Cant do it. Wont do it.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

You have a colorful fantasy world - Hey? Does that help to make up for your completely depressing Eeyore life style here in the real world?

[-] -2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

What you see as depressing I see as simply reality.

The fact the nation is led by criminals and the people are too fuckin dumb to realize it is something that can drive you nuts if you let it.

How many times have YOU seen something messed up going on in public and stepped in, put yourself at risk to help others?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Every time that I have come across such a situation - I grew up as the neighborhood bully confront-or. Never used a weapon.

[+] -4 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

I would also like to say that in these situations you never know what is going to happen.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well at least that was a sensible comment.


[-] 1 points by hchc (3100) from Tampa, FL 5 minutes ago

I would also like to say that in these situations you never know what is going to happen. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

90 secs? you must be a real bad ass, unlike the actual soldiers that were killed.

[-] -3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Like I said, I shot expert first time through at PI, and I can't imagine it would be hard to pick him off through all the chaos. He is watching everyone. I'm watching just him. He started off with the shotgun.

That being said, no one knows what the hell would have happened.

Yes, he had body armor on and a helmet. But I would have tried.

Especially since he left and then came back. I'm not sure how old those were who were in the service, but put some seasoned Marines in there and they would be chasing right behind him out the door if they didnt kill him already.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

It would of been a great chance to show your stuff no doubt.

[-] 1 points by justiceforzim (-17) 2 years ago

USA Today: Out of wedlock births now 41%.

No way to spin this one. USA Today reported this week out of wedlock births were 41%- 73% for blacks, 53% for hispanics, 29% for whites. The article is very sobering and gives a clue where we are headed if something is not done about this problem.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You have the no fault divorce to thank for that.

Another one of Reagans babies.

[-] 0 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

The NRA has a solution.

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[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

No, I could make no such admission. Certainly some people suffer from mental illness, but the larger instigator of these incidents is a society based on power relationships, the gross disparities and inequalities within our society (and immersion in this sort of culture).

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So IYHO what we say does not matter, interesting view.

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Right, what we say does NOT matter ... ergo, the problem!

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Some of us really don't know what to say. The NRA hasn't posted anything relative to Aurora on their web site. So, I can't be sure, but it must not be a gun issue.

If it is a gun issue, I am sure we will know Monday what the strategy is to guarantee it will happen again.

We probably need to register people because, as we all know, people kill people.

They could use a cocktail napkin to hurt and kill a total of 70 people in just a few minutes. Maybe the napkins should be registered and cocktail napkins should be available without a background check at cocktail napkin shows. And that would include large magazine cocktail napkins.

Unofficious position of the Never Responsible Association

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

sorry took so long to get back to you, but now we know the answer is more guns:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/colorado-gun-sales-up-after-movie-massacre/2012/07/25/gJQApYaI8W_video.html

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

And it never matters what the question was. The answer is, "more guns."

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

in the eighties we could do nothing because there were already 100 million, now we can do nothing because there are 300 million, one silver lining half of the gun deaths are suicides, at least those nuts didn't hurt somebody else, still not a good thing

oh and ban masks from theathers, why? so people will know who they are pointing the guns you're encouraged to bring at

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

One of my favorite arguments, We didn't do the right thing, so we must do it some more.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 2 years ago

This is convoluted and stupid.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

hey they can't all be gems

never thought it would get this much attention, but before everyone forgot what an idiot Rush was before this thing I thought the reminder was worth it

[-] 1 points by AVJLFront (5) 2 years ago

The American Vigilante Justice Liberation Front will bring these white collar criminals to justice.

They have robbed millions of people of their hard earned money in a scheme masterminded and executed by individuals who gained extreme financial wealth during the 2008 crisis. They are still doing this today, unregulated and never investigated.

There is another financial crisis on the rise and it will not be public till it is too late. Henry Paulson has his pockets filled, Citigroup, Goldman, countrywide, must be brought to justice.

No one has ever been tried for their crimes. They must be hung high by the people to let the world know we will not stand for this. That the people will take up arms agaisnt white collar criminals. The justice system has failed. White collar crimes are shrugged off as rich peoples mistakes.

We must eradicate these criminals. They must pay and so must their families. The people will not wait around for the corrupt judges and politicians to take action. The people must take action now!

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[-] 1 points by AVJLFront (5) 2 years ago

Henry Paulson must be assassinated. There must be a liberation of the people to regulate the financial system themselves. The people must use old American justice; vigilante justice to stop the corruption. These CEOs and board members have raped the people of the world and most importantly trusting hard working Americans.

A list has been compilied, and these people have gotten away with grand theft, robbery, extortion for far too long.

These people must die.

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[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

The more effective non violent method to remove these people is to stop supporting them with our dollars. The giant corporations from which these people are nourished and groomed are the result of our buying their products. Cut off their bloodsupply before they cut ours!

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

I kind of go against the grain of thinking in our world. Seeing that others have witheld the earth from me and my family and we have become slaves to make others rich now for 3 generations. I can see the value in having the majority of others dead. If my family and maybe a couple of others were all that were alive on the earth. I could finally be free to pursue life, liberty and happiness. And then the tables would be turned so that all future generations could pay me rent to live on my earth, as I dont see much benefit in sharing the earth with you people, and you sure havent shared it with me. Just a fact for thought.

[-] 1 points by ThomasKent (129) 2 years ago

On the national level it is time to ask ourselves: who are we? Is our self-proclaimed "exceptionalism" nothing more than our Wild West individualism and sensationalism? Unfortunately, these horrible events occur with such regularity that the question arises:are other nations right when they tend to look at us as latter-day barbarians?

There were several hours before the Dark Knight murders hit Youtube. Here is crazy content about Aurora Massacre years before the mayhem occurred in the movie theater this week.

Aurora Massacre v0id

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LUDBa1x2lY

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

attack on Romney

why bother ?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

did you read the post, this is about Rush, but speaking of Romney, the biggest danger OWS faces is that people will think there is not enough difference between Romney and Obama and Romney wins that's what happened when Nader did not focus his attacks on Bush, he helped Bush become President and we know how that turned out, many of us would like to at least "hold ground" with Obama instead of letting Romney win and make things much worst

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I don't think there is enough difference between coke and pepsi

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

your right to think so, too bad about the climate change, well at least this isn't the only planet maybe there is life on others, still would be nice to keep stuff alive here, but if you can't find enough difference without the Rs NDAA would have not passed, without Rs the Iraq War bill would have not passed the house, but those things don't matter much to you I guess

of course we have a system that allows many types of soda on the self, but only one person gets the seat of governance, so that would be either coke or pepsi, but that would be a good test see if you can make RC number one if you do I'll vote third party

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

climate changes has been going since the beginning of the industrial revolution 1850

doom is nothing new

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

would of been nice to see if Gore could of done something, but now we will never know,

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Excellent!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

all other things being equal might as well vote for guy who will cut your taxes I guess

[-] 0 points by yangjiangrong (-1) 2 years ago

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[-] 0 points by Proteus (141) from Quebec, QC 2 years ago

If the government is armed, then I want to be armed too, but that option is not available in my corner.

Don't worry, gun control will come one way or the other for you too, probably within 7 years.

The reason? After using violence, psychological and physical, to rape humanity of its soul, peace must be enforced, the monopoly of the guns in the hands of government and anything not peaceful will be blasted.

We are condemned to this wonderful system far worst than any other that ever existed, and it is not much better, and democracy is just a pretty manipulation coat on the monster. Hold to your guns Americans, we have none here and the government don't even tolerate peaceful protests.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

When the crazy people get microphones, people die?

What are you trying to say in your title?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Don't know how much Rush you hear, but it's a wonder there aren't more events.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

I don't even know anyone that listens to Rush.

I've been using my Freddy Krueger knowledge in hopes of banishing Rush. If you just stop thinking about him, maybe he'll go away. LOL

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It must have to do with corporat owned MSM. The source for your up to the minute propaganda

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

my up to the minuet propaganda?

Here'e my latest posts

Cops Open Fire On Protesters in Anaheim July 2012 - http://occupywallst.org/forum/cops-open-fire-on-protesters-anaheim/

Prosecutors Seek To Arrest Frauds Over LIBOR - http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-aclu-of-northern-california-filed-a-lawsuit-ag/

Shaking Spain - video of protests in Spain - http://occupywallst.org/forum/vote-for-who-the-tv-says-the-most/

Profits Soar For Largest Low-Wage Employers, WHILE PAYCHECKS SHRINK - http://occupywallst.org/forum/profits-soar-for-largest-low-wage-employers-while-/

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

some damn fine posts, at that, qoutes would of helped, "your up to the minute propaganda" but then I might not of seen the posts so it all works out, everything has a reason

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Not "your" up to the minute propaganda.

It was like an ad by MSM for MSM news programs - you know like - Channel 5 for your up to the minute news - substitute Propaganda for News.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

oh got it! Definitely misread that at first.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Cool {:-])

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[-] 0 points by Magnatron (-2) from Littleton, CO 2 years ago

Can we please stop getting all of our news from the Comedy Channel and MSNBC? They have no credibility.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

you mean like FOX?

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[-] -1 points by SJB (-5) 2 years ago

Small problem with your post about it being Rush's fault....

http://www.examiner.com/article/occupy-black-bloc-member-james-e-holmes-shoots-up-aurora-co-movie-theater

A radical far Left-Wing and Registered Democrat and avid Obama Supporter, “Occupy Black Bloc Member James E. Holmes Shoots Up Aurora Co Movie Theater Killing 12 And Wounding 50.

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

No, and it is beyond tasteless and obscene to try to add a partisan advantage on the back of a mass murder. Utterly despicable, but not unexpected. The left did the same with the Giffords shooting.

Have you cretins no shame?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You must have really hated Bowling for Columbine.

The truth can be a painful experience.

But, hey. Someone here is trying to blame it on OWS.

That's OK with you, just leave Limbaugh alone?

you're the only one with no shame.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

How quickly those who push "personal reasonability" jump to the word "blame" as soon as you suggest they take some. Not you shooz, just saying in general.

People want to pretend that you can fill the country with guns and hate and when people die say "I had nothing to do with it".

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Even funnier than the Rushster are the ones trying to blame it on OWS.

I think that I correctly blame it on all the idiotic gun nuttery.

What do you know, guns really do kill people and other living things, but mainly when they have bullets in them..

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I spent a number of years operating a nuclear power plant, the thing many people don't know is that most neutrons are "good" and don't cause explosions, but if you set up the right conditions enough do and if you do a really good job of packing things in you can cause so many unnatural things to happen that you actually create a pretty big bang like we did at Hiroshima and Nagasaki

people who say you can't show "causal factors" like when this guy points out that wealth inequality hurts everyone

http://www.upworthy.com/breaking-you-know-that-nick-hanauer-ted-talk-you-werent-supposed-to-see-here-it?g=3&c=dfa1

these people have no real knowledge of how science is done, they just like to talk as if they do to add weight to bullshit

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Science??

What's that got to do with creationism?

Or Limbaugh for that matter.........................:)

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

And a nutter holding them and pulling the trigger.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

good morning DKA, thanks for stopping by, some say things are slowing down but I don't see it that way at all, time will tell....

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Good Morning FRF - it all depends on what they mean is slowing down - positive healthy growth(?) - Yeah I would have to agree with that - The rocket-sled ride towards the abyss(?) - no not so much - that is still picking up speed and carrying capacity. IMO.

We have more people waking up to the peril - but we have not affected the direction of travel - YET.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

That seems about right to me as well.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So now we gotta find a way to slow our plunge towards the abyss and start bending the tracks in a new direction - at some point along the way depending on the effort put in and the percentage of the population who get involved - we may be able to pull a 180 and begin releasing the breaks and shoving on the power towards a climb in prosperity and health for ALL.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The path is not hard to see really. People almost always know what the next right thing is, but our egos get in the way, we know we must get rid of the Republicans to move forward, but they say stuff that makes us feel good and strong and most of all RIGHT, so we feed our egos and kill the world when we vote republican, but most folks want to do better they are just confused, we can help them with that.

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"But, hey. Someone here is trying to blame it on OWS."

just as despicable.

"That's OK with you, just leave Limbaugh alone?"

what an infantile, binary and tragically limited thought process you possess.

have you considered growing the fuck up, scumbag?

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Ooooh, I'm so hurt by your insults.

Too bad what I said is true, and what you've said is not.

So you did enjoy Bowling for Columbine?

Or were you too young to watch it?

Here's some stuff on Rush for you.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/07/18/comic-conspiracy-theories-with-rush-limbaugh/187200

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

media matters! lol! they're just as warped as limbaugh.

S U C K E R ! ! !

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Prove it.

You just believe what FLAKESnews tells you.

So, did you enjoy Bowling for Columbine?

You seem to have more problems answering questions than Rush himself.

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

prove what? more importantly, why? I owe you something?

oh, right. ows cretins think everyone owes them something. how could I forget?

I believe what? you know about my TV habits? "Prove it." (haha! like that?)

when bowling for columbine came out, I decided not to see it because I didn't want to support the kind of scumbag who would, for instance, try to make a partisan political point over a mass shooting. then, when the giffords shooting happened and this asshole DID try to make a partisan political point over a mass shooting, I was vindicated.

let me guess...you loved it. it's like porn to you, right? no person is ever responsible for shooting, it was the gun that jumped in their hand and make them insane and shoot people.

real intellectual.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Prove anything at all that you repeat here.

You make a lot of accusations that you can't back up.

I guess that's "porn" for you then?

Makin' stuff up?

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"You make a lot of accusations that you can't back up."

like what? name one.

like that time I claimed to know about your TV watching habits? oh, wait. that was you. maybe the time I defended rush limbaugh? no, never did that. you just ASSumed it. was it the time I said blaming ows for the CO shooting was OK? nope, I called it despicable to do that.

wtf are you yammering about anyway?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

There's the one I asked you to prove in the first place.

"media matters! lol! they're just as warped as limbaugh."

You didn't prove a thing. Although you did fail to capitalize the L. and the T.

The rest of your response is pointless bullshit.

So, prove it.

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

what did you ask me to prove? you sent a link from one of the most partisan bullshit left wing organizations in America.

what was it I said that I couldn't prove? (btw, I already asked you this. now, for the second time, you've failed to point it out).

are you asking me to prove that media matters is as warped as limbaugh?

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I asked you to prove your statement.

You have failed to so numerous times now, including your most recent post.

You wiggle and squirm, but you don't prove a thing.

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"I asked you to prove your statement."

third time: which one?

I even asked: "are you asking me to prove that media matters is as warped as limbaugh?"

and you failed to answer.

continue jerking off. you can't keep up.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You're the jerk off. Sleezo.

Since your too stupid to scroll back and actually read stuff, yes that's the ignorant statement you made.

So, go ahead and prove that statement.

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

you want me to prove my opinion that media matters and limbaugh are just as warped.

you're an idiot.

keep jerking off. I can't bear to watch any more.

when you're done, read the MM expose in the Daily Caller. that about sums it up and allows me to not distract you from what you're really up to.

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

what's your point? do you think I agree with this asshole or condone his bullshit?

if so, you might want to look into adding a third (at least) dimension to your thought process. the george bush style binary model ("with us or against us") isn't working.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I just thought he was a graphic and very current example. I wasn't trying to imply anything.

I think my thought processes are multidimensional.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Gun nut?

[-] -3 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

Nope. Don't own one, never have, not interested.

Partisan hack leftist media scum nut?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Partisan?. Yes! Leftist? Yes! scum? now now. name calling = weak arguments.

Repubs are the problem. they proudly support the conservative policies of the 1% plutocrats.

Elect progressives. Vote out pro 1% plutocrat republicans

[-] 2 points by friendlyopposition (574) 2 years ago

There you go again, you start calling names and then when someone else throws one back you say "name calling=weak argument"

Gun nut is calling someone a name.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Asking about someones dedication to guns (gun nut?) is very deffierent than using scum to describe someone. But you know that. You are reaching. grasping at straws. distracting from the substance of another gun nut gone crazy and slaughtering innocent people.

So we must inact reasonable gun control. Only partisan republicans resist this common sense approach.

Support reasonable gun control. Vote out republicans

[-] 1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"Asking about someones dedication to guns (gun nut?) is very deffierent than using scum to describe someone."

I didn't describe you as scum. I asked a question. you are reaching, grasping at straws. distracting from your original intent, to insult based on a binary thinking pattern prevalent among people who think the DNC is worth defending and make a partisan issue out of anything, including the mass murder by a psychopath.

I'm sure the families of the dead will be glad you were able to make a partisan political point on the backs of their dead loved one.

stay classy, DNC.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Now you've brought up the families and the victims. Not me. Maybe you should stop exploiting that tragedy.

More people die from gun violence everyday than the Co theater victims.

Support reasonable gun control. Vote out pro assault rifle republicans

[-] 1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"Now you've brought up the families and the victims."

yes, do you think they are happy for you? do you think they appreciate asshats making partisan political points on the backs of their dead loved ones? do you think they appreciate asshats exploiting their tragedy?

must I repeat myself because you're too much of a worm to answer?

well?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I ain't brought up the families or the victims. You did!

So when you ask "if I think they appreciate asshats making partisan political points on the backs of their dead loved ones?" Are you talking about yourself?

'cause I ain't done it. YOU have.!

Please refrain from the vulgarity and the insulting schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney. It only betrays the weakness in your position. You realize that don't you?

Peace

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

why is it wrong to bring up or mention the survivors? nearly every newspaper and magazine in America mentions them. are you so dumb you think merely mentioning them is a "partisan" thing to do?

clue: it isn't.

what IS tasteless and despicable is making a partisan political point on the backs of their dead loved ones. mentioning them in order to point this out is nothing close to partisan political hackery. that's where you come in.

so.....do you think they are happy for you? do you think they appreciate asshats making partisan political points on the backs of their dead loved ones? do you think they appreciate asshats exploiting their tragedy?

must I again repeat myself because you're too much of a worm to answer?

well?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Take a nap. Your not making sense.

You're using the families and the victims. Not me.

You don't have to respond it's ok.

Peace

[-] 1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

why is it wrong to bring up or mention the survivors to point out how you are pathetically trying to make a partisan political point on the backs of their murdered loved ones?

is that too complicated a question? is your pea-brain straining under the weight of all those letters and words? no wonder you have your head up the DNC's decrepit ass.

for the third time, chickenshit.....do you think they are happy for you? do you think they appreciate asshats making partisan political points on the backs of their dead loved ones? do you think they appreciate asshats exploiting their tragedy?

well? what are you afraid of, other than realizing what a despicable scumbag you are?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I think the families are happy I'm not foing that. And offended that you are!

Are you happy that today the Affordable Care Act covers womens prescription contraceptions! Finally, over the objection of republican,religious conservatives who continue to try and treat woman unfairly we have succeeded in a small bit of prohress.

Peace. I am not your enemy.

Please refrain from the offensive bully tactics. It is inneffective in the virtual world since you can't really use physical force.

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

you think the families are happy you aren't doing what you are doing?

full-circle self-deceit noted.

[-] -1 points by vvv0731 (-1) 2 years ago

What's it like working for a murderer like Odrona?

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

unemployed, self employed, no political work, considering advising a tea party candidate. Whatta you think?

I don't consider the great President Obama a murderer. And your resorting to childish name calling (Odrona"?) betrays the weakness of your position/argument.

Peace, I am not your enemy

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

what about the pilots

are they murderers?

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

You cant claim to be an indie and then partisan in teh same breath idiot

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I can claim whatever I please. You don't get to judge, You don't get to command me, you just get more obnoxious and abusive.

I am anti republican partisan.

i support ideas from dems, greens, indies, WF, socialist, even libertarian party.

Repubs & conservatives are too far gone.

Your offensiveness should be reported. Not a comment goes by that doesn't include some vicious attack.

Please STOP!

[-] -3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

haha....stop begging for it with every post then.

Why is it that the older the age of the poster, the more conformed and confused they are?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

So you have some problem with the elderly as well.

So lets see, you have a problem with Dems?, and LGBT? Your anti women? Anti immigrant? and anti minority.?

Now you sound anti elderly.

But you aren't a republican? Riiiiiiight.!

That sounds republican to me.

Peace

[-] 1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"older" and "elderly" are not the same words, do not have the same meaning.

if you are this illiterate, well, that explains a lot.

are you a 9/11 truther? you argue like one.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Republicans exploited the 9/11 attacks to pass their anti middle class economic agenda, to wage 2 illegal wars, to threaten out rights (patriot act, NDAA,)

There is some 9/11 truth for you!

Elect progressives.

Vote out fear mongering republicans

[-] 1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

is that the best you can do to admit "older" and "elderly" are different words with different meanings? ignore it? awwww...don't be scared. admitting you made a boo-boo won't cause one.

the DNC voted for the war, too. I know that's painful to you, but it is reality and as much as you'd like to avoid the reality that makes you sad, it's still reality. time to face it, toots.

HRC raised the specter of presidential assassination during the DNC primary 4 years ago. nope, no fearmongering there!

when will you grow up and realize there is so very little you can say about one party that doesn't apply to both? seriously, you have to seriously consider growing up and stop being such a sucker cheerleader for the DNC. they are every bit as horrible and the DNC.

maybe when you become an adult it'll all make sense to you.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"scared"? please.

"sad"? that dems succumbed to the fear mongering, war mongering of repubs. Nah just disappointed.

HRC Pres Assassination"? Whaaaat? Your comparing that to 11 years of trying to scare the shit out of the planet with "terrorist threats" Your reaching. LOL

"grow up"? "apply to both" you can say what you like. That don't make it true.

"sucker cheerleader"? You can't have a civil debate with substantive arguments because your position/arguments are weak. That is why you resort to the insulting schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney.

And you have the nerve to say I have to grow up? LMFAO

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

if you aren't scared, what is your excuse for avoiding admitting elderly and older aren't the same? is it pride?

"that dems succumbed to the fear mongering, war mongering of repubs. Nah just disappointed." -- awww, look at you making excuses for your beloved democrats. they're just so helpless and easily steamrolled, never mind their votes. their votes are also the fault of the gop.

lol....for real.

"HRC Pres Assassination"? Whaaaat?" -- oh, you forgot? how convenient. here, let me help you"

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/23/clinton-kennedy-assassina_n_103319.html

does that refresh your memory?

and what does the gop using scare tactics have to do with this? you believe they do it more, so...what? that cancels out when your beloved DNC members do it? they aren't trying to scare the shit out of everyone with climate catastrophe? with govt shutdown? with koch bros paranoia? with racial animosity they keep alive? both sides do it, but you are so blindly partisan you refuse to accept it.

really, that is some intellect you have there. it's simply stunning. you can't even get that pointy head of yours around the fact that I detest both parties. I doubt you can even understand such a concept, you're such a binary DNC lackey.

be honest, how often do you forget to pull down your pants before you take a shit? 4-5 times a week? every day?

regardless, you need to grow the fuck up already. the DNC sees you as nothing but a potential donor. they could give a shit about you.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

You are an anti dem partisan republican?

I am not your enemy. the 1% plutocrats who on you and your family are our mutual enemy.

Peace. Please refrain from the schoolyard bullying tactics of your candidate Romney. It is useless onlinewithout thethreat of violence.

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

still can't admit elderly and older aren't he same. intellectual cowardice noted.

no comment on HRC's despicable scare tactics during the '08 primary?

"You are an anti dem partisan republican?" -- no

you are the other side of the same coin as the 1% plutocrats. and since I believe in capitalism, free enterprise, honesty and merit, you are most certainly the enemy.

even your "Peace" is insincere. there is nothing peaceful about smothering one of the two horrible political party's ass with kisses. you lovingly and slavishly support an organization that is at least 50% of the problem.

[-] -3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

^assumptoin like this is why you get harrassed constantly on this site. Keep em coming bobo.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"older.... poster.......conformed &confused" - those are your words.

Consistent with your other intolerant comments. And you didn't denie it so I guess age discrimination is part of your make up?

Your silence is deafening. Who is harassing me?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

Republican means nothing with out context

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

so does war

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

That guy exercised his 2nd amendment rights and you run away from him? What could be more political than shooting a congressperson, I think you just don’t want people to think about what your reading of the 2nd amendment is, not surprising righties are always cowards. I would lay down money that this guy is another right wing gun nut just like McViegh and Loughner

[-] 2 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

and if it turns out he was involved in OWS, what then? would that make any difference at all?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Why would it? A nutter is a nutter.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So you think Loughner was involved with OWS months before it started?

this was in response to this comment " The left did the same with the Giffords shooting."

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

nope! Why should it?

[-] 1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

nope! what if he's a tea party member?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28187) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

A nutter is a nutter is a nutter. Don't matter what their ( mass murderers ) beliefs are they are a nutters.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The tea party is full of selfish, greedy, conservatives who care only for themselves, anf advocate for the 1% plutocrats. There's plenty they got against them.

I don't need to attach this tragedy to them. As I recall quite a few were wearing their firearms and made threatening remarks towards the Pres and other dems. We don't need this tragedy to show they are violent gun nuts.

ok?

[-] -1 points by JackPulliam3rd (205) 2 years ago

We don't need this tragedy to show they are violent gun nuts.

yet somehow i think you'd do that in a heartbeat if you could.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Whatever. Why don't you attack me when I do that. Not before.

Maybe we can all agree that guns need to be controlled better?

Nuts exist in all political persuasion. It's just that the right wing wackos seem more prone to gun nuttery. But I don't have to attachit to tea partiers

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"Whatever."

that's your best, most well-conceived thought here.

stick with it. it's the best you can do.

we both know if holmes was a republican, that's all you'd talk about. but since he is much closer to OWS (black bloc), then it gets a "Whatever."

intellectual honesty: look into it, hack

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

He was just a nut who got crazy amounts of guns & ammo. You think that is ok?

You support his right to amass that much firpower? Are you so blinded by your partisan talking points you can't say "gee maybe it would have been better if he didn't get all that".

I haven't attached repub to him, nor tea party (although I think there was an abc report about him having a tea party page). I don't have to.

He was insane. Thats enough.

"hack"?- And your inability to debate this with resorting to the schoolyard bullying name calling of your candidate Romney shows how vacant your position is.

Give it a rest. Maybe we disagree. Who knows you haven't really expressed an opposing view. All you've done is attack me personally. So that is kinda irrelevant.

Good luck to you on any good efforts you pursue.

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"He was just a nut who got crazy amounts of guns & ammo. You think that is ok?"

only a mind warped by partisan political hackery of the highest order (and a willing, enthusiastic asskisser of a party, on top of it) would proffer such an absurd question. if I was as limited as you, I'd be asking how giddy with glee you were when the gulags were rounding up agitators and working them to death in order to keep the soviet prison nation afloat.

but I'm not a binary thinking useful idiot, so I don't.

"You support his right to amass that much firpower?"

when did I say that? right....I didn't.

"I think there was an abc report about him having a tea party page"

you must let me sell you this bridge I have for sale. you can't pass this opportunity up!

"He was insane. Thats enough." -- so you condemn the Left for using the giffords shooting to make partisan political hay out of it? m moore was at the forefront of that despicable scumbaggery. your love of bowling for columbine must have been severely tested when he did that, huh?

just kidding, of course it wasn't. "He was insane. Thats enough." is what you're saying because he was black bloc. if he was a registered GOP voter, it's all you'd be talking about.

IOW, you're full of shit.

"you haven't really expressed an opposing view." -- and yet you can't resist calling romney "your candidate."

the carnival of contradictions in your head must be hilarious to experience in person.

"All you've done is attack me personally." -- hypocrite

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Your hostility is disturbing. the vulgarity is offensive. the insults are immature.

Please refrain from personal attacks.

We disagree! Thats all. I think it was wrong that this insane guy was able to amass so much weapons, ammo, explosives. You have yet to denounce it.

You have mentioned politics and the families and the victims in an effort to make political points. I am just saying he was insane, and shouldn't have gotten these weapons.

You don't have to respond. You are clearly unstable and probably a rest is the best prescription.

Peace. We are not enemies.

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"You have yet to denounce it."

so that must mean I condone it, right? that's some intellect you've got there, jerkoff. you must be a shining star on the dnc plantation.

"You have mentioned politics and the families and the victims in an effort to make political points." -- that's a lie. there is nothing political about pointing out how despicable it is to make a rank partisan political point on the backs of murder victims. why must you lie? is it that hard to just admit that making a partisan political point on murder victims before the bodies are even cold is lower than low? it won't kill you to admit you see this, I promise. not even a scratch.

"I am just saying he was insane, and shouldn't have gotten these weapons." -- another lie. you're saying a whole lot more than that and you know it. your comments are here to read. again with the lying? why do you lie so much? do you lie to yourself so you won't feel like such a scumbag for making partisan political points off a pile of murder victims?

[-] -3 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

There's 14k murders in this country per year. What would you guess their political leanings are?

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

i don't know. whatever they are. Any criminal who gets a gun paid for it so someone made a profit. That person should be punished right after we put the violent criminal in prison. Left Right or otherwise.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The political leanings of people who make it easy to get guns, is republican, do I win a prize?

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

No, he's a young violent person.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

McViegh and Laughner were both RW gun nuts

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 2 years ago

And both of them were young violent people.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

many of the young violent NRA members I once knew are now old NRA members, most did make it to middle age

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

Loughner was not a right winger,

Loughner was a 9/11 truther, as many ows supporters are.

you actually DESIRE that this guy is a right winger (as if it would matter). I'm sure the families of the dead people would be so happy for you if their tragedy advanced your political ideas.

get a conscience, cretin.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Bullshit so it was just a accident he picked one of the few Ds in AZ?

Next you will be telling me Ray was a black panther.

[-] -2 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"Bullshit so it was just a accident he picked one of the few Ds in AZ?"

accident? not sure if that is the word I would use, but there is ZERO evidence he targeted her because she was a democrat.

he was a 9/11 truther. that is the extent of his "political" leanings we know about. a 9/11 truther, just like so many ows cretins.

are you a 9/11 truther, too? are you here to defend your movement's "honor?"

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Gun nut shoots up one of the few democrats in AZ after GOP leaders had been running web sites with target sites on democrats.That's what we know your crap about 9/11 is just that crap.

[-] -2 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

both parties used the target symbol on their sites. is this REALLY news to you? or are you such a sucker for lefty media lies you're still clinging bitterly to the subhuman partisan angle on that story?

what evidence do you have that he chose her because she was a democrat?

I don't think there is any.

there is proof he was a 9/11 truther. I see that struck a nerve with you. are you a 9/11 truther? looks like you might be. are you ashamed to admit it?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

that's not true about both parties using the target symbol, still not sure what you are bladdering about, buit either way iwe both agree that if he picked her because she was D, then that would be an excerise of his 2nd amendment rights, on that much we do agree

[-] 1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"that's not true about both parties using the target symbol"

bwaaaaa-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

aaaaaaaahhhh-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

waaaaaaaaahhhh-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaaaa!!!

wrong.

http://gratewire.com/topic/democrats-using-crosshair-target-symbols-on-maps-hyprocrisy-alert

here's another:

http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/hypocrite-sarah-palin-denouncing-democrats-used-targets-on-their-maps/

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

what's the matter? no reply to this one?

is the fact that the democrats did, in fact, use the target symbol not fun enough for you?

come on, my little nit-nat. say you were wrong. admit you were fooled by the lefty MSM that told a lie you believed and defended and then were shown how utterly false it was. you can do it.

I promise, you won't have any bruises except to your ego.

[-] -2 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

"that's not true about both parties using the target symbol"

it is:

http://gratewire.com/topic/democrats-using-crosshair-target-symbols-on-maps-hyprocrisy-alert

here's another:

http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/hypocrite-sarah-palin-denouncing-democrats-used-targets-on-their-maps/

ever hear of google? look into it. you won't seem so gullible.

"we both agree that if he picked her because she was D, then that would be an excerise of his 2nd amendment rights, on that much we do agree"

I don't agree with that. stop making shit up.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

you said "both" seems you only looked into one, and since when was stick pins on a map the same as putting someone face behind a target, what bullshit you guys will go to

so you have no actual knowledge of the 2nd amendment either then?

[-] -1 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

blah blah blah

your statement: "that's not true about both parties using the target symbol"

has been proven wrong. stop being such a pathetic weasel and own up to it.

this kind of crap is just embarrassing:

"you said "both" seems you only looked into one" -- because no one disputes the republicans used it, dummy.

"stick pins on a map" - the link showed targets on a map. are you now lying to yourself to avoid admitting you made a mistake?

how pathetic can you be?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6845) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

America is under attack from within and you pretend to not know who supports this violence, as long as Americans listening to bullshit we will continue to die:

http://india.nydailynews.com/newsarticle/50212ebac3d4ca7929000003/sikh-shooting-victims-leave-grieving-indian-families

http://www.bradycampaign.org/

[-] 0 points by slizzo (-96) 2 years ago

you said: "that's not true about both parties using the target symbol"

you were wrong. I proved you wrong.

time to get over it, little boy.

[-] 0 points by freakyfriday (179) 2 years ago

Amen.

[+] -4 points by SJB (-5) 2 years ago

Small problem with your post about it being Rush's fault....

http://www.examiner.com/article/occupy-black-bloc-member-james-e-holmes-shoots-up-aurora-co-movie-theater

A radical far Left-Wing and Registered Democrat and avid Obama Supporter, “Occupy Black Bloc Member James E. Holmes Shoots Up Aurora Co Movie Theater Killing 12 And Wounding 50.