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Forum Post: What Is Our Plan Of Action?

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 28, 2012, 4:58 a.m. EST by GypsyKing (9780)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I would like to start a thread to discuss a concrete plan of action for this movement for the next year and beyond. I would really like to hear peoples ideas and see if we can come to consensus on this critical issue.

188 Comments

188 Comments


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[-] 6 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Honestly, I'd like to see OWS move beyond simply protesting and occupying things, and look at means of changing the political and economic landscape as best it can. To begin with, we should look at setting something up along the lines of Politician Market (which started out as a joke but has a hell of a lot of potential to get things done) to allow for crowdsourced lobbying on the part of OWS participants and sympathizers.

Beyond that, we need to start looking at the 2012 and 2014 election cycles. 2012 is coming up way too soon, and I'm not particularly happy with the fact that we haven't started moving on that already. For the most part, we should be working alongside and providing support and publicity for the 99% Declaration in the hopes of developing a document that we can use as our own Contract with America in the hopes of making it a litmus test for politicians running on the state and national levels.

If we release the thing in 2012, then it will most likely have little effect until 2014. Generally speaking, you get about half the turnout in off-year elections that you would during a presidential election year, which means that any group that can get warm bodies in voting booths has a seriously disproportionate degree of say in who actually gets elected. That's even more true on the primary level, but if we want to take advantage of it we need to look at how quickly we can get funds and from where so that we can be prepared.

Come 2014, we need to pick races in which nobody really likes the incumbent much and try to find challenger candidates several months in advance (say, January or February) so we have time to set them up properly with a strong campaign staff (if there's one thing this movement has it's activists by the ton so as far as I'm concerned that should be the easy part) and a fairly strong source of funds, with all of this support being contingent on adherence to 85% or more of the content of the 99% Declaration.

Once we have our people, we're going to have our work cut out for us running the campaign for them. Ad blitzes, door-to-door campaigns, money bombs, push polls, the works. Trying to run a non-corporate campaign with crowdsourced funds from small donors is hard as hell, but if the Paulites can do it, then I'm pretty sure we'll be able to as well (if we're willing to work both hard and smart to see this through).

In order to make this work, we're also most likely going to have to rebrand the movement. "Occupy Wall Street" worked really well in the first month or so when coming out against rampant abuses by financiers was all we had to do. By now the whole world knows what we're against but now we have to figure out what we're for. The answer is sitting right in front of us: the 99 percent (slogan-wise, at least). If we become the "Defenders of the 99 Percent" then we have something less tainted to build an ethos around than the images of the tent city in Zucotti Park.

There are simple things that we could start doing now to turn our image around and pull this movement back into the field of view of most of mainstream America. First off, set up a PR workgroup composed of sober, articulate, clean-cut moderates who are capable of appealing to people fairly far outside our standard political and socioeconomic demographics to convince them to vote for people we trust. Shell out a few hundred bucks on a suit and tie and get them some public speaking lessons and see how many talk shows you can get them on.

While we're at it, we're going to need to start coordinating and planning protests and rallies better. People shouldn't be getting notifications on here about "Occupy this!" or "Demand that!" two or three days before the event in question is supposed to happen. We need to pick a few big events at least three or four weeks in advance and go out of our way to hunt down people, organize rallies, clean ourselves up, and once we're actually out on the street avoid unnecessary trouble with LEOs. That means for God's sake, someone keep the goddamn black bloc out of anything we do. We should be prepared to put our best face out there and our best foot forward, and we should be looking for unity and discipline when we go out there.

[-] 6 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I like this response a lot! Let me say a word of two about the goal of this post. I would like people who visit this site to be given a list of specific actions they can take to support this movement. Many people want to help, but have very busy, difficult lives. So I would like us, or as many of us on this forum as possible, to endorse a list of 10 or 20 specific actions that people can take to support this movement, without having to wade through the great complexity of these posts. Newcomers must find this all very daunting. So let's give them specifics.

Thank you, ARod, and please stay with us here, as I feel the goal is worth the effort.

[-] 3 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

No problem, and thanks for the support. My only worry is how the hell we're going to get something as radical (from your average anarchist's point of view) as this through the GAs. A lot of the OWS higher-ups seem to make nonconformity and noncompliance points of pride even when behaviors based in those principles come back to bite us in the ass after the fact. Convincing them that holding to social norms is a good idea may well be just as difficult as convincing an 80-year-old Tea Party grandma that some stoner dude with gauged ears and matted dreadlocks is worth listening to (although I hope to God I'm wrong about that).

[-] 5 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

My idea here is to work independently. This forum is a vital adjunct to this movement, and we can engage in a dialogue right here to come up with a manifesto and endorce it. Personally, I'm sick of waiting around for this to happen. Any plan we can agree upon I will endorce with my username, GypsyKing, and I would encourage others to do the same. People who want to support this movement need to know how, specifically. It is high time we all addressed that issue.

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I just mentioned this talking to Thrasy right below you; the one problem I have with a parallel movement is best summed up by this:

http://xkcd.com/927

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

This makes a good point. I'm not talking about creating a parallel movement, I am simply saying that we, as members of occupy, have a right to state our opinion. It's a free country - or at least it was the last time I checked. We cannot afford to be thwarted by getting bogged down in endless process.

Many here have been with this movement from the beginning. We have a right to state our convictions.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I agree with you; I'm just trying to figure out how to do such a thing. That said, I have to laugh at the absurdity of the situation: I'm a civil libertarian and a Keynesian to the core, a college kid, and according to the two-dimensional political spectrum popularized on politicalcompass.org I'm a libertarian socialist, and yet here we are talking about revolting in the name of conformity...

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Man, you just never know where this life will take you! How do you like this, I've been more disgusted by the sellout of the Democratic party than anything that has happened in this country, and I find myself forced to argue that we must vote for Obama so that we don't get Romney. Life is insane. All I know is that we need to press on - there's just too much at stake to give up. We need to defeat the economic royalists no matter what it takes.

[-] -2 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

This won't work. I keep getting banned when I bring up issues which criticize Occupy. You'll get shadow banned in no time if you try to create a manifesto to usurp the anarchists. You can try, but I fear it won't work.

If I were you, I would setup another forum and invite people to discuss the creation of a manifesto over there. Once it's done, then you can post it here.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

If I am banned from this forum for doing the only really worthwhile thing that can be done on this forum, then there is already something rotton in the state of Denmark.

[-] -2 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

Iv'e defaced conspiracy theorists, Iv'e used bots to down vote TIOUAISE, etc... That was all cool. No problem. I get shadow banned when I bring up topics that criticize Occupy. Glaucon got shadow banned a while back after posting this:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-anarchic-dilemma-do-anarchies-self-destruct/

In any case, I suggest you go ahead and try. You can always create another forum character if you're shadow banned. It's a good way to test what kinds of discussions are tolerated and which kinds are not.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Wow, for the first time I am in actual complete agreement with you. I don't know why, but that makes me nervous. LOL.

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Like you and I said earlier, politics makes for strange banners and even stranger bedfellows...

[-] -1 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

You can't. Anarchists have full control over the GA. They need to be abandoned if all protesters want a chance to be represented. Occupy should become like a republic democracy with representatives that are voted in and who have term limits. There could be general assemblies once in awhile only when everyone is involved. They could be online for example. A general assembly every day where only the same anarchists show up day after day means they have total control. Add the fact that no one is named, and it looks more like a totalitarian regime than the wonderful democracy that is being touted.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

That's the problem. This thing has a great deal of potential and manpower, and if I remember correctly there's still a couple hundred thousand dollars floating around in various bank accounts under the name of the Occupy movement. Starting a parallel movement could easily lead to a slugfest that leaves both movements disillusioned and depleted, but I'm less and less convinced that sticking to the existing structure will work. How, then, do we unseat the GAs?

[-] 1 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

You unseat the GAs in the same way you fix the government, from within. You create a large group of disenchanted Occupy protesters and send them to NYC. The NYCGA is the mother ship. This is where change begins. Those disenchanted protesters go to each and every GA so that they outnumber the anarchists. Eventually, they will over power them. Protesters who don't have the time to head over to NYC can contribute donation money so that those who can make it have support.

If you can't change Occupy from within, you'll never be able to fix the republic from within.

[-] 0 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

By the way, I touched upon this problem back on November 17th with the following post:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-anarchic-dilemma-do-anarchies-self-destruct/

NOTE: This is one of my posts which was severally attacked for being trollish and got Glaucon shadow banned. It's probably best if you don't reply.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

I'm loving this idea. It's what I came here hoping to find. I was very impressed with the way fightforthefuture attacked SOPA/PIPA. Like the link wikipedia had. Type in your zip code and "Bam!" there a link to write your congressman. Very simple. Makes it much easier to get more people on board.

Pick a bad piece of Legislation and our collective voice may be able to influence it. Pick a Corporation to boycott and, we all attack their income. When they change we move to the next. GoDaddy flopped positions on SOPA thanks to boycott. We can cause change. We just need to pick targets.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

That's exactly my point, and it appears that lawmakers aren't going to stop handing us cannon fodder for that sort of effort. Just Google the EEA and then let's see what we can do about that.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Economic Espionage Act?

I'd also be happy to promote a boycott on Apple.

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

The Enemy Expatriation Act, actually, sponsored by Joe Lieberman. From what I've heard the bill would make it possible to strip a person of their citizenship without obtaining a conviction first; the government has the option to determine whether a person's actions indicate a desire to withdraw citizenship, should the decision be contested the burden of proof falls on the person rather than the government, and there is no formal court before which such cases must go.

[-] 2 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Grr. Reading up on it now. Since it's amending the Immigration and Nationality Act, I'm reading that. When a citizen is stripped in the older law the burden falls on the person by preponderance of the evidence. Basically before to loosing nationality one had to renounce it, or make on oath to another government, or commit treason (after a trial) or attempting to overthrow the government (after a trial).

the new HR 3166 is rather short adding: engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States For purposes of this section, the term `hostilities' means any conflict subject to the laws of war

The new section is placed after the paragraph about treason and overthrow, and does not require any kind of trial. So this fills in the NDAA quite well. For those who thought the wording in sections 1021 and 1031 of the NDAA kept you safe; this bill allows them to strip your citizenship without trial, and good luck fighting for your citizenship back by a preponderance while your in Gitmo.

[-] 4 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

That's what I was nervous about; I have no problem with stripping people of their citizenship after an act of treason or rebellion, and I have no problem with tossing traitors, rebels, and terrorists on Death Row once they've been convicted of those things. That said, there's no reason to broaden the law and strip out the conviction requirement unless you're looking to do things you have no business doing to begin with.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Well, we have two options when petitioning or writing congressmen. Oppose this bill outright, or ask them to ad wording to the bill. It might be made to read: "After being found guilty by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction of engaging in, or purposefully and materially supporting, hostilities against the United States"

(and that's just clipping in a few word from the old law)

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

If we could get that amendment inserted then we wouldn't have any further case against the bill. Maybe we can talk to the Paulites about it, given that Ron Paul is already trying to push through a bill that would effectively declaw the NDAA.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Yeah, I'll just send that amendment proposal to Ron and Rand and see if I hear back from either.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

How about putting it on Change.org? I didn't really think much about it as a medium of change at first, but after Molly Catchpole managed to back Bank of America down via Change.org I've gained new respect for it. Besides, asking either Paul to do something that restricts the power of the government is kind of like asking an oak tree to make acorns.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

It works well; I just signed it.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Well, I messaged my senator and Rand Paul. I've only signed petitions; I never started one, and need to get to bed before figuring out how to do that, and what to put on it. I'll try to get one up tomorrow if no one beats me to it.

[-] 0 points by PoIemarchus (56) 2 years ago

What would be the point of boycotting Apple?

You should boycott all clients of Foxconn if you're worried about bad working conditions of employees at assembly plants. These clients include just about every electronic and computer company in America.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

As you said, everyone uses them. Boycott "Everything", just won't work. You boycott one; they change; you move to the next.

Back in 1987-1990 there was a campaign against McDonald's to get them to stop using styrofoam food packaging. "But why pick on them, everyone else was using it too." Well it worked. They use paper boxes for their burgers and nuggets now. And guess what. Others followed suit without ever being boycotted.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

UH! HELL YEAH!!!

I was there and I forgot.

Apple asks for it, big time!

Massey Coal Mines do too!!!

[-] 0 points by PoIemarchus (56) 2 years ago

As you said, everyone uses them. Boycott "Everything", just won't work. You boycott one; they change; you move to the next.

OK. Then I think we should boycott the company which is the biggest and makes the worst products, i.e. Microsoft. Apple makes awesome computers. Microsoft has the monopoly with Windows and Office and have used dubious strategies since its beginning.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

That would be fair and sensible, but an advertising opportunity like the current spotlight on Apple should not go to waste. The people circulating the the petition to tell Apple to fix their working conditions already got over 100K signatures. That only took 'em a couple days. Inertia favors targeting Apple. Lets roll with it.

[-] 0 points by PoIemarchus (56) 2 years ago

Unfortunately, I can't favor that. I don't want Microsoft to gain the monopoly since I think this would be an even worse situation. Unless all companies are targeted, I feel this makes little sense. I've also used Apple computers my whole life and they are at the heart of my operation which permits me to feed my family. There's no way I'm going to let go of my Apple computer to use Windows. Apple is an example of a company that stuck it out against the big boys. I think it's lame to target them since they have done so much positive things for the industry as a whole. The real problem is the whole setup, not only Apple.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Do you got a blog or anything like that? Write up an article about the evils of Microsoft. I'll share it with with whoever I can. Start a petition, I'll sign it. Give me an email on address to express our opinion to, I'll do it. Ideally Apple makes a quick PR move and improves their process, then it'll be easier to get the ball rolling on someone else.

I'm trying to get the word out and focusing on the Enemy Expatriation Act. If you've seen my petition for that (It in this thread and has it's own thread) I'd ask you sign and share it. I'll help any organized effort you or anyone else presents.

[-] 0 points by PoIemarchus (56) 2 years ago

There are already tons of articles on the evils of Microsoft. No need to add more.

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

Well, this thread is about action plans. Do you have one? Are you working on one?

The cause I'm focusing on, I have written several congressmen about. I'm telling everyone I talk to about. I've started a petition. All my Facebook friends are going to get spammed until they actually read the thing. I've joined several new forums over the last 2 days to get the word out. I've messaged people with lots of followers asking them to share it. I've also asked people who've made youtube videos on the topic to support my petition. Sent a message to someone who had and closed a petition on the same topic. And am more than open to advice.

What I think I need to do is send a message to fightforthefuture and find out what they did to make their anti-PIPA/SOPA campaign so effective.

[-] 0 points by PoIemarchus (56) 2 years ago

Spamming your Facebook friends is not wise.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

spam can be replaced with useful posts to the recipient

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Forjustice said it very well below when he/she stated: "I'm loving this idea. It's what I came here hoping to find. I was very impressed with the way fightforthefuture attacked SOPA/PIPA. Like the link wikipedia had. Type in your zip code and "Bam!" there a link to write your congressman. Very simple. Makes it much easier to get more people on board. Pick a bad piece of Legislation and our collective voice may be able to influence it. Pick a Corporation to boycott and, we all attack their income. When they change we move to the next. GoDaddy flopped positions on SOPA thanks to boycott. We can cause change. We just need to pick targets."

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Exactly; the sooner we pick our targets and the better organized we are when it comes time to confront them the more likely we are to be effective. We already have a couple of new ones coming down the pipe (at this point I'm starting to wonder if Lamar Smith is trolling or (in the event that he's actually serious) why we haven't found a challenger for his seat and started throwing Benjamins at him) in PCIP and the EEA; now let's see some effort.

[-] 1 points by VivP (4) 2 years ago

We can be the most powerful voting block Got to put this movement in to votes.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

The problem lies in how the votes are counted.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

"Crowd sourced Lobbying"

I like the sound of that. Could that be related to my attempt to get people to participating in petitioning( could it be a part of the strategy? ) I mean I sometimes refer to petitioning as an available but largely unrecognized resource and I like to refer to it as The Peoples Lobby.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

It is, but the difference is that crowdsourced lobbying would actually be backed up with money; basically for every legislative initiative we consider important enough to take a stance on we put out a position paper enunciating that stance and then get people who agree with us to donate money to a dedicated fund. The paper and the fund are presented together to the Senate and the House, with the understanding that the money will only go to those officials who take up (and vote in accordance with) the position enunciated in the paper.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Ah bribery.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Basically, yeah. If our politicians are going to put their votes on the auction block then I don't see why ordinary Americans shouldn't be allowed to bid. Of course, one of the first uses of this tool would be to fight for campaign finance and lobbying reform (which would make all monetary lobbying, crowdsourced or otherwise, illegal and obsolete).

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Well luck with that. Could I interest you in signing a campaign finance reform petition?

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Sure; just hand me the link to the thing and I'll sign it.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Here you go.

Campaign Finance reform:

http://www.change.org/petitions#search/Petition%20to%20the%20government/7

Unite in support of common cause to win.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I've signed 12 of them so far.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

And I hope plenty more to come. Thanks for taking part. Talk to your friends about it. It is direct and immediate action, it costs nothing, and with all of the disenfranchised people, it could be huge.

If you would like to author one or more of your own or know someone who would like to:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/petition-for-change-let-us-get-serious/

[-] 0 points by PoIemarchus (56) 2 years ago

You shouldn't create a zillion petitions for the same thing. It's better to have only one with a lot of signatures.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

If you read the petitions.

You will find out pretty quickly.

That each one is different.

The only thing the same would be uniting in common cause to take part and sign each.

[-] 1 points by mediaauditr (-88) 2 years ago

Develop a system like this forum on a local level, where OWS can discuss local politicians and elected officials. OWS must remain as one and everybody must vote a specific way. Discuss the candidates, study up on who will best represent the middle class, not who says they will represent the middle class. Vote out all incumbents. That would be a start. Change will only happen if OWS mobilizes at the polls.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

One change I would make to your comment.

Vote out all incumbents that are not supporters of the people.

To regain our government we must definitely work inside of it and it's processes. It does not help us to stand outside the window looking in.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

I think our number one priority has to be a Spring offensive in which all possible efforts are made to re-establish occupations. Occupations are the defining characteristic of this movement. The provide a public place where interested people can come 24/7 to learn about, participate and be active in the movement. As long as there were occupations there was no question of being late to a demo. All you had to do was show up any hour of the day or night and you were or could be engaged.

I think the second part of any action plan has to be building more occupations and more GAs until, as it says on the home page of this very web site, there is a GA in every neigborhood. Right now we are a very in between movement. By that I mean, we look big from the inside, but viewed externally, we are a tiny, tiny movement. We will not be prepared to take a next step until there are several tens of millions of people occupying or at least participating regularly in an ongoing GA. Then, but not until then, we can talk about a next step. Until then our primary task has to be building them movement until it is a genuine majoritarian movement or at least until it is a genuine mass movement and not a tiny movement with several million mere "sympathizers."

IMHO the next logical step would be to begin to occupy work places, to re-establish the sit down movement of the 1930s. I realize this is a giant step, but I think the general strike called for May 1 by Occupy LA is a step in that direction. Even if only several million workers take part that would only be a tiny fraction of the work force, but it would show our power and be a powerful stepping stone for the next step of really taking on corporate power at the point of production and distribution.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

You think this movement can succeed with direct action alone. Fine. A lot of people don't agree with that - in fact from what I can see a majority don't. I have never seen why it must be either/or. Are we so afraid of the Democrats, and if so, why? The only way you can be coopted is if you become lazy, and refuse to assert yourself. If that's the case, than it doesn't matter one way or the other. It's called resolve, and not being stupid.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

It is not a matter of what I think, but an objective analysis of what OWS as a movement is actually for, no matter what any individual or even any group of individuals might think.

In terms of what I personally actually think, I think OWS is a very very young and very very small movement. It is not simply not even out of its infancy. It is barely out of its gestation. It started as a movement in the streets. It inspired and energized people as a movement in the streets, but it is still a tiny, tiny movement. I personally think it is way too premature to think about anything other than movement building, but it also seems to be the case that that is the dominant position of most GAs and especially the NYC GA and its working groups. That being the case regardless of what a bunch of on line dilletantes (or I) want, the probabilty is that OWS will keep on doing exactly what it is doing (which is just fine with me).

As OWS grows much, much larger it will undoubtedly begin to add other responses to its tool box, but apparently (and I think fortunately) that time is not yet.

The danger of directly engaging in electoral action prematurely is evidenced by the very notions of how to begin to address it on this tread. The Democratic Party has been the grave yard of every mass movement since the days of the Populists, for the most part because those movements engaged prematurely in the electoral process which made them easy to capture and eviserate. In that sense, the so-called "political" notions being raised on this tread are every bit as dangerous to OWS as is the black bloc and historically speaking, probably moreso.

A real mass party of the left will be much, much more than an electoral machine. It will essentially be the organizing center for a whole culture of opposition as was the Populist Party or the Socialist Party in the first two decades of its existence (and to a lesser degree and on a handful of local areas, the Communist Party during its period of greatest influence in the 30s and 40s).

I'd ultimately be for building such a party, but for OWS to attempt something of that sort now would be the ultimate in sectarianism given how truly tiny the movement still is, which is why our primary efforts still need to be to build the movement.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Fine, I respect that opinion, but I respectfully disagree completely. It seems to me you haven't caught up with the power of the "dilletantes" here on the internet. Your conception of the possibilities of how to build a movement seem rooted in what socialists were doing at the turn of the last century. While you were sleeping organizations for creating online petitions, for example, are already having a real effect in creating change. The only reason this movement has had the success it has, is because of the net. Change can happen fast now, if we embrace all of our options.

You say this movement if tiny, but the polls say a majority agrees with its goals.

None of what you say seems to relate to the world as it is, but only to the world as it once was.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

According to Occupy Together there are approximately 20 K OWS activists nationally, which seems a reasonable estimate to me. I could be wrong, but I don't think that even one tenth that number participate on this forum and even to the extent that they do, for many of them that is in fact only distracting them from real activism.

The Egyptian movement used both facebook and twitter to great effect, but the really great effect to which it used facebook and twitter was to get people into Tahrir Square and to other public spaces around Egypt. Of course our situation in the US is far different from those facing a military dictatorship, but that basic lesson is important. That is, the net can be important if it really gets people active, but it can also be a substitute for real activism and it's important to understand the difference. Democracy is about a good deal more than what you do for a few minutes each year in an election booth.

What are the goals of the movement? I've been a part time occupier at Zuccotti Square since September 17 and I am unaware of any movement goals. If the media says that a majority supports the goals of the movement the media is imposing those goals on the movement, they are not anything that comes out of the movement itself.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Exactly we move forward. Well said.

[-] 1 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

The same momentum that created OWS is driving the people to move toward change now and I think they will do it. To say wait is like telling the wind not to blow. As for the Democrats, they are merely going to create the best environment for something new to happen. I believe Barack Obama himself would agree.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Very well put.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

I am not asking anyone to wait for anything. We are a tiny, tiny movement and we need to be much, much bigger if we expect seriously to change the world. Building a movement is not waiting. It involves a considerable amount of work, really a monumental amount of work, much more than just getting somebody elected, or a piece of legislation passed, or even a Consititutional amendment passe.

How can anyone take the commander in chief of the most imperialist nation in the history of the world seriously as an agent of progressive social change?

[-] 1 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

I think he could have been a great president but for the environment that he inherited and I still have hope that he will accomplish some things between now and 2016... Look at it this way- which frightens you more, Barack Obama or Rick Santorum?

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

There are over 200 American military bases around the world. The sun never sets on the American flag. Barak Obama is the Commander in Chief of this empire and far from reversing it, he has done some of the most reprehensible things of any Commander in Chief, including authorizing the murder of American citizens! I could go on and on about this, but that's just off the top of my head.

Domestically he hasn't done anything for the working class that went to bat for him. He completely abandoned the Employee Free Choice Act. He never even considered abolishing Taft Hartley, much less moving beyond the limits of the Wagner Act which would be the basis for serious labor organizing. His record with the environmental movement is equally pathetic.

To say that our only choice is between Obama and Santorum only reveals exactly how pathetic and conservative the dominant American political spectrum is and highlights the need for a stronger and more independent OWS.

[-] 2 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

Well I agree with your statement that our system is pathetic and I hate the 2 party system. I don't agree with everything Obama has done but again, he's what we have to work with right now. I'm sorry you can only see the negative. When I look at the handful of American presidents I admire, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, there are also things about them I can't stand. We work with what we've got.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

OWS did not start by accepting what is as inevitable. Indeed it started with a vision of a very different, more democratic, more loving and more peaceful social system. It stands in such opposition to what is that it has not even raised any demands. The dominant reason for this is that is stands in intransigent opposition to the very system of which we would make demands. We have no demands of this system as we seek to displace it.

I certainly do not only see the negative. I am culturally and American. I can't imagine living anywhere else. I love American scenery, American culture, American music, American movies, American literature, American cities and most of all the American people. What I don't identify with is the American political system. What draws me to OWS is its intransigent opposition to that system.

I also believe in working with what we've got. What we've got is 20,000 activists in GAs and occupations in cities and towns across the nation. It's a start.

[-] 1 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

RJ, I did not mean you only see negative in everything, I meant re: Barack Obama. And my position is certainly not one of accepting the inevitable. But I think you are stuck on one idea and to call these people dilettantes is insulting to the hard work some of them are putting in on this forum. I'm saying let the momentum and drive they have going be a force for change, even in OWS. Let OWS grow up and move beyond talking. I don't know what more I can say.

[-] 0 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

Barak Obama seems to have an exemplary family life. He seems to be genuinely loyal and faithful to his wife and family, which I think makes him distinctive among many politicians and even the general public. Unlike, for example, the Clintons, the Obamas seem to really get along, really love each other and like each other. I suspect like anyone they have disagreements, but these don't seem to descend to the level of yelling screaming fights that would leak from the Secret Service. I find that extremely impressive and I am quite personally envious of their apparent relationship.

It is also quite clear that Obama is extremely intelligent, and he perhaps has the highest IQ of any President in history.

So my views of Obama are by no means entirely negative.

That said, I have absolutely no sympathy with his policy perspective, which when they are not outrightly reactionary are at best opportunist.

In terms of OWS growing up and moving beyond talking. It was already that grown up on the day it was born. It was not about mere talking then, nor has it been at any point since. In terms of all talk and no action that accusation can much more accurately be posed to this forum than to OWS which puts forward new projects and acts on them on virtually a daily basis.

I don't mean to trivialize what anyone does, but it is not at all clear to me exactly what the "hard work" of this forum constitutes. Alternatively, as messed up as they often are, whenever I go to a GA or to a working group meeting, there I see work being done keeping the movement together and engaged in activities which actively grow the movement.

[-] 1 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

I appreciate your observations on Barack's personal values, family life and intelligence. The so called "family values" Righties can't say a mean word to him on that score and I'll bet they spend a godawful amount of hours trying to dig up something. On our approach to OWS we'll agree to disagree. good day.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 2 years ago

I try not to be dogmatic. Perhaps I am sometimes or often unsuccessful, but I still don't understand what the "work" people do on this site (or why it can be called work) has to do with building OWS.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Of all the excellent comments here by jiffysquid, the rising, etc., I was most struck by this one from underdog. WHY HAS THIS STLL NOT HAPPENED?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-the-way-to-change-america/

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I am bringing this to the top, so that anyone can have their say about my recommendations post here, if they would like to. I think the most surprizing thing to me, were the relatively few concrete actions that came to the fore, and this should give us some thoughts about improving this movements structure, because as I see it now, the structure itself seems limiting to our options.

[-] 1 points by Revolutionary (265) 2 years ago

Power has to be given to the people.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (34889) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

My plan of action today and every day, is to spread education and promote advocacy, and promote taking action through social networks and petitioning. Provide guidance and advice:

Tweeted:

USA Main stream Media covers social unrest around the World, But Not at Home Hypocrisy? Corporate/greedy/corrupt Fear? The world is watching ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] 1 points by DKAtoday (2645) from Coon Rapids, MN 13 minutes ago

201,425 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 11:42am central time 02/08/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578 ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] 1 points by DKAtoday (2645) from Coon Rapids, MN 16 minutes ago

Twittered today.

https://twitter.com/#!/DKAtoday

No coverage of American protest. Corporate Media Hypocrisy? Where is Main Stream Media. Powers that Be say NO? The world is watching!

[-] 1 points by Revolutionary (265) 2 years ago

Plans take a lot of time to build,may be discuss and re correct and update.My friend born in July 65 is trying to do that for the whole humanity.He has issued a blue print which he claims does not require currency but that is not applicable to you at present.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Good! We must all put our best ideas on the table! I made a post some time ago with the intention of giving everyone a chance to contribute those ideas. I will soon go through that post, and sum it up to the best of my ability. That is, create a new post where the best idea's from people on this forum can be seen and readily comprehended by all those who visit here, so that people can incorporate action into their daily lives - incorporate action, that is against incorporation:)

[-] 1 points by Revolutionary (265) 2 years ago

Is it possible to see that post now!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Here is my suggested plan of action. Please see link below.

This plan encourages focus on THREE SPECIFIC ACTIONS ON FEB 29th, MAY 1st and AUG 4th. This does not preclude smaller actions in between of course.

If we follow this plan, we could grow support for the Occupy movement exponentially: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/how-the-occupy-movement-can-grow-to-100-times-its-/

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thank you. I plan to go through this post, item by item, throughout the coming days, and try to distill it into a list of concrete steps people who visit this forum can take to further the movement:)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Please add any links you might have related to these actions. Thanks :)

[-] 1 points by nichole (525) 2 years ago

Overcome our individual egos and preexisting political identifications.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Painfully apt.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Direct Democracy is a form of government in which people vote on policy initiatives directly, as opposed to a representative democracy in which people vote for representatives who then vote on policy initiatives.[2] Depending on the particular system in use, it might entail passing executive decisions, making laws, directly electing or dismissing officials and conducting trials. Two leading forms of direct democracy are Participatory democracy and Deliberative democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy

What we have now is a Kleptocracy

Kleptocracy, alternatively cleptocracy or kleptarchy, (from Greek: κλέπτης - kleptēs, "thief"[1] and κράτος - kratos, "power, rule",[2] hence "rule by thieves") is a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often without pretense of honest service. This type of government corruption is often achieved by the embezzlement of state funds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

The plan of action that I suggest is outlined here through a Direct Democracy :

http://osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories. Thomas Jefferson

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thank you for this comment, and the links. I will take them into consideration. GK

[-] 1 points by rpc972 (628) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Here is a recording of a successful Community Organizer from the 60s from which OWS can learn from : http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=9687222

IN DEPTH: Who The Hell Is Saul Alinsky? He's not the man Newt Gingrich - and many of the right-wing extremists - think he was.

Read more: http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=9687222#ixzz1l5Z67AkC

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 2 years ago

If you form another political party, it seems all the appropriate names have unfortunate connotations: National Party, Peoples' Party come to mind. I kind of like "The Third Party" for the choice you've been waiting for. Everyone already has "third party" on their minds, so wouldn't have to get used to a new reference.

[-] 0 points by PoIemarchus (56) 2 years ago

The "Third party" makes it sound like it will always be in third place. That's not a good name.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

one other plan of action is to abolish our government as stated in the declaration of independence, it is our right to abolish or form a new one if the current one isnt serving the people.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Right, how do we do that?

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

The number one goal is to stop corporate, special interest, and wealthy individuals contributions to candidates and elected representatives. As long as control of our Democracy is in the hands of the few, it does not matter what the many do within that government!

We must regain our grip on the steering wheel before we can change our course.

The most effective way to do this is to bypass congress, and go to the external source of the corruption, corporate, special interest, and wealthy individuals. Boycott their businesses and products. It is our greatest strength and they are powerless to defend against it.

[-] 1 points by Opportunity (19) 2 years ago

Here is an effective yet non-violent plan of action for those who are interested:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/overlooked-ways-to-legitimately-attack-financial-b/

[-] 1 points by antiglobb (47) 2 years ago

The most important things of this plane are two. Interrupt the transport of the goods between producers and consumers. The truckdrivers have to strike for a long time, so the goods don't get to the consumers. In this way its possible to hit the corps and the people of the consumers together. Interrupt the movement of money between the banks and those who go on to ask them credits that can be paid never. This action will stop the capitalistic mechanism forever.

Follow my blog "spectre2012.wordpress.com"

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

Section 140 of the new OWS constitution shall read: Corporations and businesses who get rich off the backs of others, shall be limited on how much profit they may keep, at just enough to maintain operating expense of that business for 1 additional year, and all other profit shall be equally distributed to all the workers in proportion to the hours they worked for that company.

Section 141 of the new OWS CONSTITUTION (Also shall come to be known as the US VS. THEM AMMENDMENT) shall read:

Banks shall be immediately ceased by the government, and financed by the federal reserve at a minimal operating cost, with the goal to finance homes and businesses at or as near as 0% as possible to serve the people, and not rich bankers anymore. This is to facilitate familes who are paying as much as 80% of the cost of their homes in long term interest compilation, to hellp families pay off their homes early so they can save for their own retirements, and not add to the inevitable collapse of another housing pyramid scheme, that still exists today.

Section 141 B (PRELIMINARY purpose is to discourage the housing pyramid scheme that creates an inevitable collapse in our economy and educating the people who think raising the prices of homes back up and repeating the same failed practice will somehow have a different result) . To shall discourage investors from getting rich off basic necessities of another individual, and encourage people to work for their own wealth instead of enslaving poor families who needs a basic place to live) shall read: Homes shall be evaluated based on how old they are in proportion to their depreciation and shall not be allowed to sell for more than the original buyer paid for with exception of exact value of receipts paid for actual and competitive fair market value of improvements of goods and services provide to improve the home.
* SPECIFIC INCLUSIONARY EXAMPLE: If a home is sold for a hundred dollars, then that home shall not be allowed to sell for two hundred dollars without $100 dollars of actual improvements being added to the home.
* EXAMPLE 2: If a home is sold for $100 dollars then the property tax on that home shall be valued on the 100 dollars even if their neighbor is paying tax on $160k in value. Also if a home is sold for $0 dollars, then as a reward for helping another family, that home shall be forever exempt for paying taxes, as tax on $0 = $0.

  • Governments shall be specifically be limited from interfering or otherwise fining a private citizens right to sell their home for $100 or any other price, in order to lower their taxes, or to transfer their wealth to a family member, or another private citizen.

Section 141 C: In the event that the government falls short in financing their operations, they shall be allowed to enter in to private for profit operations to raise funds to operate, just as they have in the past, and continue to do in many industries that are unaware to the american people (they do in the author's industry for example).

Section 141 D: If government agenices make a profit to finance their operations they shall be taxed on that profit and shall pay taxes equal to the taxation on its citizens, to further lower our cost of living for citizens.

Section 142 A : of the OWS new constitution shall read: Businesses and government agencies shall cease from forcing their products from posting private information online without citizen's express written consent, nor shall they be forced to make it their ownly option of putting their information online, such as pictures, *.pdf documents, HP printer software, Turbo Tax 1099 forms, including payroll accounting software.

Cell phone companies that have booby trapped their phones to save pictures in a folder called "my album" (tmobile) when in fact it is an online folder where .25 cents per picture is charged adding cost to their phone bill unaware to customers who have no text service shall also cease this type of deceptive business practice immediately or risk being ceased and its assets including those responsible whether private or corporate being redistributed to we the people.

Companies who fail this order shall be broken up and / or ownership of offending companies shall be immediately taken over by we the people.

Section 142 A. No company online, including credit reporting agencies, and local government agencies, such as business license division shall post or publish or otherwise distribute any information regarding a citizen without the express written consent of that citizen. A credit reporting agency shall not publish any information on a citizen without their permission. Any failure of this shall result in that agency immediately losing all governing authority and financial assets and those assets shall be redistributed to the people.

Section 142 B. Any fine imposed on a US Citizen by a peace officer or any other government agency shall be held in an account to be used by other US citizens in need of the funds collected. Such people may include those who suffered bodily injury from an accident or cannot afford to repair their vehicle, or pay for their insurance, or otherwise afford an automobile. Damage to personal property is also included in compensation to US citizens from collected fines. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL A GOVERNMENAT AGENCY BE ENTITLED TO ANY FINE IMPOSED UPON A CITIZEN, but rather all collected fines shall be immediately redistributed to another citizen in need of those funds. Should there be no citizen in need of funds for these stated examples, then the funds shall be payed for utility bills of a US citizen in need, starting with in priority of need, those citizens who have had one or more of their utilities shut off, or have otherwise been slow at paying their utility bills, or their rent. EXEMPTION: Home Owners shall not be entitled to any collected funds, not until every other citizen is also a homeowner, and in this case, only those who own a single residence shall be entitled to any funding.

Financing of government agencies shall consist of collection of gold from mining, silver, coal, natural gas, and oil and other valuable commodites and shall be the primary source of paying for government services. Should there be an excess of moneys collected by government agencies over 10 million dollars, all funds over this shall be refunded to the american public.

Because of the publics dependance on oil, oil shall no longer be provided by private corporations who have made too much profit during a time when the price of oil was at all time highs. The government as represented by the people shall now run and distribute the oil and gas as needed by the people.

Also due to the corruption exposed in the utilities industry as exposed by Enron and its planting of execs in the utilities oversight commitee, utilites shall also be run by government, and no private for profit corporation shall be allowed to provide energy to the people.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thank you for this information, but I am trying to solicit people's advice regarding a plan of action recommended by individuals on the website to advise visitors to this website as to specific actions they can take to help this movement.

This is not acting in an official capacity on behalf of OWS, or with the intention of representling OWS, but independently as members of this forum, in order to make this forum a more effective conduit of information for the movement.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Please read and consider my humble suggestion.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/this-is-the-way-to-change-america/

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I checked it out, and there's something similar in the works already over at the 99% Declaration (although the group they're sourcing it from is somewhat smaller and more insular than what's mentioned in your plan). It's a nice place to start, but I'm not sure if we should do that many 60's-style protests. A few massive ones at regular intervals would be great, but if you try to do too many of them at once then they start to bleed people and once they get below a certain size they become useless. I feel that any protesting we do needs to be backed up at the polls in primaries and general elections, and I fell like we're best off concentrating there.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I agree with you completely on this; better to have two really massive events a year than a hundred very small ones.

[-] 1 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

We need a committee with the task of defining as clearly as possible all the loopholes and problems with the current laws of the American Republic.

This committee should be made up of expert writers, economists, investigative journalists, scholars, lawyers, judges, etc... These people could be Occupy protesters, but the committee wouldn't necessarily have to be associated with Occupy.

The goal is the elucidate the problems with utmost precision so that the best solutions can later be conceived. Many users write about problems on this forum, but they seldom go into the details that would be required to form adequate long lasting solutions. Some users also indulge in conspiracy theories which only makes everything more confusing. I believe detailed and professional scientific research is needed if we are to truly understand the problems we are facing.

For example, if there's a massive problem with foreclosures, I want to know when the problem started, what exact laws affect the problem, how these laws affect the problem, etc... National and State laws must be considered.

The first step of the committee would to be compile what is already known. The second step would be to search for all the missing information.

It would be wise for this committee to create a journal and and invite experts or teams of experts to submit articles. The articles would be peer-reviewed before publication. The journal should be a long term effort as laws constantly change. It could be a monthly journal with a new topic for each month. For example, one month could be dedicated to problems with banking.

This journal would consist of scholar articles that might not be understood by the general population. It would be wise to also create a layman's version which would help the population develop an awareness to the particular problems.

Laws are very complex, especially because they can affect one another. For this reason, it is wise to undergo a very detailed analysis of the problems before turning to solutions. It might very well be the case that three laws need to be modified to fix one particular problem, but that these new modifications create new problems. We must be aware of such cases.

I think a good publication from such a committee would help people understand why they are protesting, and it would prepare the ground for Occupy demands, and would help official political parties decide which laws need to be mended, edited, deleted, added, etc...

It's much harder for a politician to pass a bad law if people are aware of the consequences. It's also much harder for a politician to ignore the change, addition, or deletion of a law that many people are demanding.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I see limiting the scope of this to the the participants of this forum. It is imperative, in order to be of benefit and to be legitimate, that it remain limited in scope.

I do not suggest that we are an official voice for Occupy, or for the 99%; only that we speak as posters on the occuly forum. I will alot one week for input, and then, seeing no other expidiant way to advance the list of recommendations, either I, or someone involved from the outset of this movement, and recommended by those on this post, will then condense the ideas posted here into a list of recomendations, and those in agreement can simply sign their username to those final recommendations.

The sole intent of this post is to make this forum more productive to visitors who want to contribute effectively to this movement.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Count me in!

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

You're contribution is valued here!

[-] 1 points by DavidGilbert (64) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

How To Take The Country Back From The Top 1% That Own It. Make Congressional Candidates Take Blood Oaths!

"I swear by the shedding of my blood that if elected to Congress, I will off offer bills on the following subjects and work tirelessly to see that these bills are enacted...

More Democracy - A constitutional amendment reversing the Supreme Court's bizarre rulings that under the First Amendment money is speech and corporations are people. Real campaign finance reform with public financing of federal elections. End the "revolving door" of politicians and their staffs from ever becoming becoming lobbyists. End the filibuster - the continued tyranny of 40, the number of senators who can block action—perhaps representing as little as 10 percent of the American public. End gerrymandering by politicians and turn over redistricting to citizen committees.

Progressive Taxation - A federal tax code where the marginal tax rate should be raised to 50 percent on income between $500,000 and $5 million, 60 percent on income between $5 million and $15 million, and 70 percent on income over $15 million. There should be a 2 percent annual surtax on all fortunes over $7 million. The estate tax should be 55 percent and kicks in after $5 million. Capital gains should be taxed at 35 percent. End the home mortgage deduction on first homes over $1 million. End the home mortgage deduction on all second homes. Corporations should be taxed by a variable amount based on the percentage of their payroll going to US workers. A small business employing 100% US workers should be taxed somewhere between 15-20% while a company that has completely shifted its production overseas should be in the 50% range. Eliminate corporate loopholes, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies, end offshore tax haven abuse. Expatriation of capital should be subject to a maximum tax-rate penalty with violation considered a felony act.

Reduce Financial Risk To Society - Break up the biggest banks. Reenact Glass-Steagall. Abolish credit default swaps. Derivatives must be traded on transparent exchanges. Ban "flash" trading.

End The Housing Crisis - A national anti-foreclosure plan that is up to the scale of the problem would include: Principal write-downs of underwater loans Expanded refinancings for borrowers in high-rate loans Forbearance for unemployed homeowners. Pay for it with massive fines against the banks for massive mortgage fraud.

More Fairness - The fast-growing occupations in America are lower-paying service jobs, like home health care and food service, in which it’s all but impossible to make a living. To lift wages requires generous tax credits for low earners, a higher minimum wage, and guaranteed health care so that wages are not consumed by medical costs. Job training efforts must also focus on the service sector, helping to build so-called career ladders, say, from home health aid to licensed vocational nurse. To encourage upward social mobility, make all community colleges tuition-free. Pay for it by ending the war in Afghanistan and reducing military spending.

More Jobs - A ten-year federal program that creates over 30 million jobs rebuilding America that includes infrastructure banks run by engineers, not politicians and a massive clean energy initiative that links some of those new jobs to workers in fossil fuel industries who otherwise would be displaced. Pay for it by taxing all Wall St. financial transactions at 1% raises $400 billion a year.

Better Schools - Properly compensate effective teachers. Copy Finland. Finland draws its teachers from the top 10 percent of college graduates. Finland's teachers study education at government expense and receive strong professional support throughout their careers. Finland's "whatever it takes" attitude towards teaching ensures that no child is left behind. Universal prekindergarten, full-day kindergarten and extending the school day and school year. End tenure and LIFO for k-12 teachers nationwide and weed out the bottom 10%.

Protect The Environment - STRICTLY enforce the Clean Air Act.

Personal Freedom - Repeal the Patriot Act"

Sign

Date

Copy Norquist!

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

read my comment 2 above yours, it explains exactly what went wrong with the "massive problem of foreclosures in the new OWS constitution Section 141 B.

[-] 0 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

It doesn't explain what went wrong at all. It provides a few lines. I'm talking about in-depth analysis; not toe deep, 100 meters deep. Pages, not sentences. You can't adequately comprehend the massive foreclosure problem by reading four sentences. Not by a long shot.

And, I would like something that's well written. There's some circular logic in your writeup. For example, the following sentence doesn't mean anything:

... purpose is to discourage the housing pyramid scheme that creates an inevitable collapse in our economy due to its pyramid scheme, ...

That's like saying - "A republic is a really bad system because it's a republic." It's meaningless.

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 2 years ago

one typo makes the hundred other sentences meaningless? ill try and fix it. its basically saying, that we cannot expect a different result if we do the same thing. People want to bring the prices of homes back up, but it wont create a different result, it will create the same one.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You're right. Kind of like there is so much confusion about corporate personhood. I'm not sure we really understand the issue well enough to know how to come up with an answer of how to fix campaign financing.

[-] 0 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

This publication could also be on the Internet, or perhaps solely on the Internet. There could be a forum where experts give their ideas.

There might be some people who know what the particular problems of campaign financing are or what corporate personhood entails. If so, it would be great to see their work reviewed by other experts, agreed upon, then published somewhere for all to see in both detailed form, and layman's form.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Remember Rico did alot of research on corporate personhood, but it never really got the attention here it deserved.

His work on that needed more expert opinion like from a professional society. When I was talking with him about it (it was way over my head!), I started looking around for more information and was trying to compare it with other information I found from the American Consitution Society and some other places.

And groups like MovetoAmend, GettheMoneyOut and United Republic.org are also working on this. So there are lots of ideas and expertise out there, but its very disjointed.

[-] 0 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

Yeah, I remember that. Exactly! What a good example. If this information could be verified and put into a legible text then published for all to see it would be tremendously helpful!

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Where's Rico when we need him. I might be able to find some links of what he wrote. But it's still a matter of getting the right experts to get good feedback. I'm not sure how this would happen exactly. Contact various professional societies and ask for opinion.

[-] 1 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

A proper committee would need to be formed first by a few experts, probably some occupiers. Then they could create some contacts and make calls for articles in various journals and universities.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by Nordic (390) 2 years ago

New party. Funded by the 99%. Convention. Candidate.

On the ballot in November.

Or better yet, a Constitutional Convention. We need to leave the old government behind and start a new one. And we have the Constitutional right to do exactly that.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I agree with you here, in theory, but I agree with ARod that we just aren't there yet. As longer term goals though, I think these are really good ideas. I just don't see how we could put such an ambitious agenda through in that time. Yet they are idea's worth considering. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I feel like the movement would need to make a few changes before a presidential run is really feasible, and the same goes (even more so) for any attempt at a second Constitutional Convention. We have an actual movement here with a great deal of potential; let's not waste it by aiming too high and falling flat on our asses but rather let's shoot for those things we know we have a good shot at taking and then build on those initial victories toward a broader objective.

[+] -4 points by Obummer (-16) 2 years ago

I would call OWS a fad before a movement and a dying one at that

[-] 2 points by Nordic (390) 2 years ago

You would, because you're a troll. Therefore, the question wasn't addressed to you, but to people who want to improve the country and not let the criminals run free.

[-] -3 points by Obummer (-16) 2 years ago

You dimwits only want to improve the Country by taking from the wealthy to line your own pockets and to help Obummer with his socialist society dream.. No thanks

[-] 2 points by Nordic (390) 2 years ago

You're as detached from reality as the homeless guy who rambles through my neighborhood every couple of days screaming at invisible people.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

And I would say that it's a "fad" that drew well over 100,000 people at one point and probably still retains a significant fraction of that group now. If it looks like it's dead, or it looks like a fad, then either you're not looking at it the right way or the people running the show need to get it together. I'd also say that the latter tends to cause the former.

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[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Politics

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[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Stay out of endorsing anyone for any office, and continue rocking the boat. Only when we get the timid on board will we be able to do anything on the inside. If we endorse canidates on the left, we will lose our chance for the center, and I believe that this movement can even make inroads to the right of center. This is about right and wrong, not liberal and conservative.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Agree completely: what I am after is simply concrete means to advance the movement. I will simply gather the recommendations here and in a completely neutral way, try to give visitors to this site means to advance the movement.

I am simply trying to find a way to make the dialogue that has gone on for months here available to newcommers, so that they don't have to wade through all of this complexity, and can get down to a few simple things they can do to help.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 2 years ago

Real good idea you have. From my visits to NY and listening more than talking (not easy for me) I came away with the feeling that this has to be approached on many different level, but not in political endorsement, which I totally agree with. One fellow said, that we should make them (politicians) dance for us. We are definitely moving the whole political spectrum to the left for the first time in many years. Check out my two posts on OWS Regime Change in Oakland near top, but more importantly check all of BGB's posts. I got a lot of good insights from him on things I strongly suspected. He has his shit together, for sure.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Move it to the left, and then to the left, and then farther to the left again. Remember, or imagine what real freedom felt like! Let us enter into the dreams and the aspirations of the soul once again. I truely believe humanity can rise again! Remember it, feel it!

[-] 0 points by FarIeymowat (49) 2 years ago

Get the money and bribes out of Washington.

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[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

OCCUPY PLAN OF ACTION

2012 Election:

  1. Register everyone to vote.
  2. Work to get IREs (Instant Runoff Elections) in every major city.
  3. Support every local campaign to elect any candidate, and for any issue, the GOP is against.
  4. Make sure all encampments are orderly, personnel trained, loud and clear signs, American flags and speakers.
  5. Make sure Occupiers are trained, orderly and carry loud and clear signs and American flags.
  6. Work with Move-On to get out the vote.
  7. Reelect Obama with numerous progressive-liberal demands.
  8. Boot Republicons and DINOS/Blue Dogs out of Congress, state legislatures and Governorships.

General:

  1. Repeal/negate/correct Citizens United.
  2. Work to get the money out of politics.
  3. Find and support new progressive-liberal candidates and issues.
  4. Keep the plight of the 99% in the public eye.
  5. Embrace and take action in the Class War.
  6. Work with and for organized labor.
  7. Coordinate and unite all Occupy Movements.
  8. Provide information and classes for issues and tactics.
  9. Invite and welcome the general public.
  10. Make it impossible for a camera to take a picture of any Occupy act, event, office or camp that does not have loud and clear signs, banners and American flags.
  11. Work to increase civics education in schools on labor and civil rights.
  12. Work to reinstate fair and progressive taxation of the rich.
  13. Create coffeehouse internet cafes for national and international connections, meetings, networking and casual association/entertainment ~ featuring progressive/liberal candidates, campaigns, films, bands, speakers, comedians, etc.
  14. Prepare for next elections.
  15. (more ?)

(Not necessarily in that exact order)

[-] 2 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Above not specific enough. Need something more detailed with specific goals such as below paste from previous Forum Post. This may not exist anymore or I would provide the link instead of paste (every time I try to access it I get a blank page)

=========

Admin Note: This is not an official list of demands, it's a user-submitted post on our forum. The user who submitted this post only speaks for her/himself and their supporters, NOT the movement as a whole.

_  

(Please click on this link if you haven't yet read the introduction called "OUR TURN":https://occupywallst.org/forum/our-turn/ . Feel free to share this link with anyone you like).

TACTICS FOR "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS"

We should make the demands below very publicly at a press conference a few days after arriving in DC. When doing so, we should give a clear deadline of 3 days for a firm written commitment with signatures from at least 60% of members of House and 60% of the members of the Senate to pass these bills by the end of the year. If this commitment on the full slate of demands is not met by midnight on the 3rd day (which it won't be) we should be prepared to non-violently block access to all or part of the Capitol complex the next morning by traditional proven non-violent tactics. The purpose is to bring the leaders of the House and Senate to the negotiating table.

NOTE: There are always entrances because there is always a point where people who work there have to leave the public street and enter secure space. We should focus our non-violent direct action and civil disobedience on those entrances no matter where they move them because these are, by definition, always accessible.

LIST OF PROPOSED "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS"

  1. CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT"http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489 ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act -Steagall_Act --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007-2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act#Repeal -Steagall_Act#Repeal .

  2. USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list.

  3. CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media.

  4. CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.

  5. CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.

  6. CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.

  7. CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control.

  8. ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight.

NOTE 1: This is from Martin Luther King, Jr.'s "Letter from the Birmingham Jail":

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood."

"The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation."

Here's the entire "Letter from the Birmingham Jail": http://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/dos/mlk/letter.html . It's a treasure and is as timely as ever.

NOTE 2: Here's a short video from BBC to inspire you. It gets pretty extraordinary about halfway through:http://youtu.be/lqN3amj6AcE

NOTE 3: If you haven't seen these 3 award winning documentaries -- INSIDE JOB, THE CORPORATION, and WHY WE FIGHT -- I highly recommend them.

NOTE 4: There needs to be a very well researched and concise addendum that contains a list of the top 50 corporate crimes / harmful actions during the past 15 years. This ought to really blow people away and will help increase support both on the ground in DC and in living rooms across America as the story unfolds. We can't assume everyone knows why these demands are necessary. We must demonstrate.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

PS - Here is my suggested plan of action. Please see link below. This plan encourages focus on THREE SPECIFIC ACTIONS ON FEB 29th, MAY 1st and AUG 4th. This does not preclude smaller actions in between of course. If we follow this plan, we could grow support for the Occupy movement exponentially: http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/how-the-occupy-movement-can-grow-to-100-times-its-

Note: The suggested August 4th action is the one you reference.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Hi there. If you google occupywallst.org fresh thread, it will take you to link for that post you're referring to. Please let me know if it comes up when you go there. To save you the time of googling, here is link that takes you to the right spot. http://occupywallst.org/forum/fresh-thread-forum-post-below-received-over-2000-c/ . When you go there, you should see bold link http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/ .

Pls let me know any of this works to bring up the post you're referring to. It goes without saying that I completely agree that this is a good example of the type of plan of action that would help us be successful.

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Like a tree falling in the forest, with the corporate media a good protest can go down without anybody hearing about it. No sense in ignoring media reform, too.

I really REALLY think getting a XXXX Warning Rating on RW Hate and Lie Speech/Talk will go a LONG WAY to waking people up. People either think that if it's allowed on air it must be OK, or they are so UTTERLY DISGUSTED they turn off to politics completely. Considering they rate and restrict porn, which is nowhere near as damaging and destructive as RW Talk, there is an opening to achieve this.

Unions need our help and we need theirs. Flushing Taft Hatley don the toilet will help unions and these reforms.

News Media needs to be reliable and thorough, even Jefferson knew that.

Fossil fuel needs a deadline. People are starting to think that the only problem is quantity and access. 4 years and kaput!!

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I live in the Orlando area. We have a conservative AM talk radio station, AM 580 WDBO, that I used to listen to many years ago as I was driving (no longer listen to it). Even then I was a progressive liberal, but wanted to get an understanding of what type of propaganda was being spewed out on the airwaves to the conservative sheep. The typical RW preachers were people like Limbaugh, Hannity, Boortz, and some others I don't remember. These guys were on the air ALL DAY/NIGHT LONG five days a week.

After a few weeks of listening to this spew, I started to get annoyed and started trying to find a liberal talk station in the area with opposing views. There were none. So much for fair, unbiased discussions on the radio.

Why is it that there were/are not an abundance of liberal talk shows with the same format as these liberal-bashing conservative shows to counter their vile demagogism? I know these people have the right of Free Speech to get on the air and speak their mind. But they are influencing milions of people. I know one could say that it's just entertainment, but the sheep take their crap seriously!. They stay on the air for years/decades spouting derision and hate, as if every liberal on the planet were akin to a brain-dead moron.

How do they get away with this and the liberal side can offer no on-air counter-arguments to offset their message to millions? I really think these shows had a lot to do with the rise in conservatism that started back in the Reagan years.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

I'm sorry, I just want to say, "DUH!!!"

Randi Rhodes speaks from FloriDUH, and has said the same thing for years.

Go on line: http://www.randirhodes.com/main.html

http://www.thomhartmann.com/radio

http://normangoldman.com/

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/

There are many more. Click in and tune out. Spread the word!!!

Can you tell me how you retrieve your posts and replies??? It seems like I post stuff here and then it's gone. I can't refer or go back in any way, except if someone replies. Where is our account, like CL????????

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Thanks for the links. I'll try to check them out.

I too can only find my contributions as a response to comment and am frustrated that my input is lost in the great sea of discussion.

Regarding the limitations of the the forum software, as a former IT professional, I too find it very limited. Although I don't know anything about the reasons why it was selected, my guess would be that it was rather hastily chosen in response to the rapidly growing movement and that there was simply no time to properly research various software alternatives that could have provided better functionality. I don't know the skill level of the IT folks maintaining it, or if the software allows for modifications through some type of API, but it would be nice if some improvements could be made.

Some improvements I would like to see are multiple sorting options by contributer, date, topic, etc. and improved filtering and search capabilities. Only tIme will tell if any of this comes to pass.

I'm sure that the IT folks are very aware of the limitations of the software.

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

The problem I see is that we let geeks (most likely afflicted with Asperger's Syndrome) have too much control instead of people who ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO COMMUNICATE, control the sites/forums/boards/links/home/other/of course/help/please leave/debit/off.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

Asperger Syndrome...hahahah! I had to go look that up on Wikipedia. Could be...the description does seem to fit the profile, although for me (a former geek) my interest was spawned in the early years of PC development. I can remember my first personal computer was a Commodore 64 and first business PC was DOS 286!!! As the industry matured and became ENOURMOUSLY more complex, I began to loose interest as it all turned into grinding labor and stress. Kind of like someone who enjoys flying a Cessna for pleasure being forced to become a commercial airline pilot and schlep people all over the world in a 737 on auto-pilot. The joy is gone.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

My first was a '81 Kaypro, it was a 30lb portable.

I still have my 286, it starts instantly and the Word still has Helvetica.

There is an automation gap where today's computers do all these wonderful automatic things and then asks you about protocols, proxies, etc. etc.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

That is quite true. The average user has no idea whatsoever of the enormous complexity going on behind the scenes and the level of skill/talent required to maintain it.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Nor should we. We didn't know much about our old land line phones, toasters or washing machines, we bought and paid for them to do services: receive and transmit calls, make toast, wash clothes. We weren't asked to make technical input and decisions in order to complete the services. Computers erroneously, unjustifiably do, all the time. And there is this tacit expectation (equally erroneous and unjustified) that we should be able to provide the technical input and decisions if we are to expect the computer to do what we want. This is BS!! Computers are appliances for achieving tasks, not puzzles or games. You shouldn't have to go to computer school just to load an add-on or sync two computers. I would never expect computer developers to be able to produce the research, prose and analysis I'm capable of using the computer, but I do expect the computer to be developed to do what I want without getting in my way.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 2 years ago

I totally agree. The thing about computer systems that is different from any other tool humans have invented is that the computer is a multiple-use device. A toaster can do only one thing -- make toast. A washer can only do one thing -- wash clothes. Now comes a machine that is able to perform any task capable of being programmed into it.

The thing about a computer is that you are dealing with a very primitive form of intelligence. Not artificial intelligence mind you (although that day will come eventually), but an information system millions (billions?) of times more primitive than us. Both brain and computer contain hardware and software, process information via input, and produce output. Both are programmed. Both have an Operating System that functions as an interface/interpreter between the hardware and the upper software layers. In essence, computers are extremely primitive mirror images (of a sort) of our own minds, built upon similar (although not identical) principles of operation. Because of this, the day will come when AI will reach a point where the "mind" of the machine will be externally indistinguishable from our own. It may operate differently internally from us, but to converse with it will be indistinguishable from conversing with another person. This raises interesting moral and philosophical questions for humans -- will the machine have obtained consciousness? If yes, what are our obligations as to how it should be treated? Does it have rights as we have? Should it be afforded freedom and autonomy as humans desire? If, in fact, it does not possess consciousness (but approximates it in an indistinguishable way), then do we?

But I am off your original subject.

Because computers are information machines, they require complex information and commands to operate. I share your desire not to have to be hassled by technical "mumbo jumbo". Someday you won't have to deal with it anymore. But until then, unfortunately, you will.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Thanx, I understand the multiplicity complications and the garbage-in/out limitations, too well. My peeve is the inconsistencies. When the computer won't [compute] prompted, listed and programed tasks. Or requests obscure technical data in another language, when it could have done it automatically. I'm sick of waiting for a list to "populate." All computer program-user interfaces should be vetted (if not written) by experts in English and Interactive Psychology. We don't get computers to play "computer," we get them to do other stuff.

Raymond Bradbury addressed synthetic consciousness quite satisfactorily until Kubrick introduced us to Arthur Clarke's HAL 9000. Then came Terminator. Don't tell'm about the "off" switch.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

This is a very good contribution. This process of coming to a consensus may take some time, but this list is a very valuable asset! Thank you!

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Thanx GK.

I've been at this for a long time.

I also believe we should R&D a new party, the "Justice Party" by the ex-mayor of Salt Lake City is interesting, as heard on one of Thom Hartmann, Norman Goldman, Bill Press or Randi Rhodes' shows, or one of the other Left-Talk shows we should all be listening to, as well as Moyers and Company http://billmoyers.com/ to keep informed.

What do you propose??

We should REALLY connect with all groups and sources. UNITY!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Sounds like a great starting point. Here's my take on that: 1,4,5,and 6 on the first list and 3, 6, and 7-10 on the second list are all things that we can work on across the country now and that's where our focus needs to be as far as internal reforms are concerned. 3 on the second list works great in blue and swing districts; in solid red districts you're better off finding a civil libertarian who's pro-campaign finance reform and fairly indifferent on economic issues, and run him in the GOP primary against the incumbent. Basically, we want blue dogs consistently running under the red banner in red districts and then look at replacing them with Democrats down the line if possible. I addressed #14 at length in an earlier post above that you might want to check out.

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

[Make no mistake, more GOP in our government will be apocalyptic!! Mere pepper spray will be a fond memory!! Don't make the GOP your last mistake!!]

I thought 4 on 2012 Election and 10 on General were no brainers. Unfortunately, it was an embarrassing failure. Corporate news was easily able to broadcast unlimited shots of every description of BAD. No signs, ZERO AMERICAN FLAGS, stupid, unreadable, covered with wet sleeping bags, "Honk if UR Horney," on and embarrassingly ON!!!

The wonderful achievement of the OWS and Occupies coast to coast to awake and seize the attention of a sleeping America was seriously diminished by the negative images Americans saw on their TVs.

Look at the protesters in Europe and elsewhere (and our own unions), the signs, banners, people and sound were all LOUD and CLEAR!!

We must never make these criminal (self sabotaging) mistakes again!!! NEVER!!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thank you. People make a big mistake if they underestimate the power of the "GOP," and their backers, to "install" another president. It happened twice in the last three elections. A great priority of this movement must be, in my opinion, to defeat that effort.

[-] 1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Multiple ways to do it, too.

1.) Get rid of Citizens United (and the strongest possible reprimand for inflicting us with it, including impeachment or worse). 2.) Rate~Warning label hate and lie speech (if porn is rated and restrict, that hate-lie speech should be banned. Ratings and warnings until then). 3.) Outlaw private funding of campaigns (after all these Citizens United capaigns, Networks will be flush and ready for low public funding). 4.) Bring back Glass Steagal 5.) Repeal Taft Hartley 6.) Re-Institute Made in America 7.) Fine, tariff, whatever works, products made overseas. 8.) Put a deadline on fossil fuels like we did with Iraq. 9.) Re-Institute some law to enforce truth in news, including certain omissions. 10.) Put People First (It's huge but simple, and who's against it, publicly?). (MORE... Help) On another note: Have you had run ins with Slamerstown(?) and Mooks? Trolls? and what about Bots?

This was/is a list but it merges when saved... oh well)

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Oh yes, many trolls and bots here. It takes awhile to sort the wheat from the chaff. I'm afraid there's no substitute for discernment born of expierence here. They change names constantly.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

HI-5 Brother!

[-] 0 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

It's nice and dandy to prepare for future elections in this way, but most of these fixes are short term, not long term.

[-] 0 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

My rhetoric will be more of the same for 2012:

  • Support those who wish to work within the governmental structure.
  • Keep criticizing Occupy flaws with vehemence:
    • Keep criticizing the lack of transparency.
    • Keep criticizing the use of property destruction.
    • Keep criticizing the use of censorship.
  • Keep bringing down conspiracy theorists to their knees.

Occupy's future is clear. If it wants to succeed, Occupy needs to become a custom solution for the economic-solical-political problems of America. No more looking at the Arab Spring protests for inspiration.

It's time to stop talking about a revolution and it's time to stop spending so much energy on organizing general assemblies. Occupy is drowning in logistics. Occupy also needs to drop the use of direct action.

It's time to celebrate the republic and to work within it. The problem is the laws. We need to analyze them carefully, and create a political party aimed at fixing those laws. We need to voice problems with much more precision.

Occupy will become the missing third political party, and you GypsyKing will be the next President of the United-States of America.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Surprizingly enough, Thrasy., I agree with five of the six things you say here. What I am looking for though, is a plan of action that will essentially say . . ."this is what we will do, specifically, between now and a year from now" . . . and . . . "these are the things that the masses who agree with us can do to help us forward that agenda."

We need to do the work of getting specific now . . . getting, as our slimy adversaries say, "on message."

We need a plan, and people need to know how they can suport that plan.

[-] 1 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

First things first, Occupy needs to be restructured so that it responds to the needs and wants of the 99%. Right now it's under the full control of the anarchists and many protesters don't jive with direct action, civil disobedience, revolution, unnamed leaders, no terms limits, etc...

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Perhaps. If that is the case, it would be a reason for us to act independently, here on this forum

[-] -1 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

You can't. You'll get shadow banned. See my reply above:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-is-our-plan-of-action/#comment-611694

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

As to that last comment, I hope you will not take it personally if I say that your endorcement - if you are Thrasymaque - would simply be the first in a long list of reasons why I would never even consider "running for president." The thought makes me laugh.

I am an artist, not a politician, and if the profits from my art were not currently being stolen by monopolistic corporate power, that I simply had no choice but to deal with, I would still be an artist.

It is not that my loyalty to this movement is not that strong, it is because I long since realized the daunting difficuty of forwarding a progressive agenda in the USA.

As a people, we have simply become the victims of the very unprecidented success of the democracy created by the founders of our Constitution. It has kept us going for so long that the majority of Americans have become complacent; to the degree that it seems almost impossible to save them from their own apathy. You can place a cow in front of them and they will all tell you it is a falcon.

I don't say these things to be discouraging. My thing has always just been to keep this movement grounded in reality, for only facing the daunting task ahead with unwavering truth about ourselves, our capacities as a movement, and the capacities of our opponents, will give us even a chance of winning.

Furthermore, this level of apathy is another reason I believe a large part of our work must be directed within the existing political system. Anyone who believes America can be transormed soley through direct-action hasn't, in my opinion, been a very astute observer of American society and its history in the last century.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I basically agree with a lot of those things; I've laid out a somewhat more complete blueprint for how we should go about trying to do those things right below your comment and I'd like to know what you think of it.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I agree with it. Perhaps we could boil it down to a list of actions that people can take. If you can do this, I will look it over, and if I agree with all the points I will endorce it. We need consensus, and I know a lot of people won't endorce it, but a lot will. It will give us a framework of action, rather than just endless debate.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I'll see what I can do this weekend and I'll PM you the list as soon as it's complete.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Good Man!

[-] 0 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

Send me a copy as well.

[-] 1 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Not a problem.

[-] 1 points by Socrate (28) 2 years ago

Your comment below is much better than mine. I just gave it a +1 to move it on top. Great piece.

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Thanks; I've been thinking a lot about how it would make sense to run something like OWS, and I appreciate the feedback and support.

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Love Anarchists or LEAVE OWS...

What is about you people ... want to be part of OWS but hate 'Real American Anarchism', ...

Anarchists were the ones that got off their ass and got the OWS movement going.

Anarchists ain't going to be led by a bunch of twits in NYC on computers.

Just sit back and enjoy the ride, but NEVER complain about anarchists, they're the only folks with ball's on the street.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

What percentage of Americans are Anachists, and what percentage do you expect to become Anarchists?

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Less than 5% of people in the USA participated in the USA revolution aka 1776.

I would guess that only 1% of today's US citizens can even spell 'anarchist' let alone define it,...

'Anarchism' is the utopian perfection of pure communism, not possible in a single-digit IQ hairlip society aka USA.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

All of your hardcore anarchist friends left this forum months ago. What are you still doing here? Looking for your crazy lunatic anarchist friends that want to topple the government? They realized that's not going to happen. So what are you doing here? Go back under your rock.

[-] -1 points by owsleader2038 (-10) 2 years ago

Nobody in this forum me or you, or anybody else has any effect on anything, anymore than a pigeon in South America makes hurricanes in New Orleans.

The government is imploding as we speak, for no other reason than Hubris because the USA population is composed of parasites. The 95% of the world outside of the USA hates the USA, and doesn't want the hypo-critic USA to be its policeman.

Today's USA only exists because 56% of the public is fed with government money, when that government money becomes worthless in the coming year, that 56% will hit the street and their will be a civil-war, where that 56% will try to steal what the 44% still has. That will be the coming revolution.

The OWS doesn't have a fucking clue and has no part of the revolution ( civil war ).

Nobody can change the outcome, the USA is a nation of debt, and the populace is a nation of whiners and losers and parasites, in the coming year the parasite will have nothing to eat, other than its fellow parasite.

The entire world will simply sit back and watch the USA implode. The chickens are coming home to roost.

[-] -1 points by smelly (1) 2 years ago

Okay...here it is. We all go back to our moms basements... take a bath...smoke some killer weed, play World Of Warcraft....and then....well...I'm really not sure...maybe come back here and party some more.

What do you guys think?

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I think you're a lot less funny than you give yourself credit for.

[-] -1 points by corralled (23) 2 years ago

What a joke

[-] -2 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

Plan? you'll be utilized as your backers see fit . I thought you were "usfeul idiots" , but you don't have that power. You're pawns.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

We are pawns of who?

[-] -1 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

george soros

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

If so, he must be pretty damned stingy.

[-] 2 points by XaiverBuchsIV (508) 2 years ago

sez the Rush Limbaugh acolyte ...

[-] -2 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

george soros funds ows. it's a fact.

[-] 2 points by XaiverBuchsIV (508) 2 years ago

Nothing that comes out of Rush Limbaugh's ass can be considered a fact, except for his head. And yours.

[-] -3 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

i didn't cite limbaugh, who do you?

[-] 2 points by XaiverBuchsIV (508) 2 years ago

You don't cite him, you channel him by echoing his bullshit.

[-] -2 points by skylar (-441) 2 years ago

since i don't listen to him your statement is worthless.

[-] 2 points by shooz (17656) 2 years ago

Fred MacMurray!