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Forum Post: SPECIFIC NONVIOLENT DIRECT ACTION 8/4/12: Let's reclaim our republic. Over 2,020 people have commented on this action plan.

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 10, 2012, 2:57 a.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The post at this link outlines specific plan and has received over 2,020 comments. http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/ . Please take a moment to read this post on how and why we should take over U.S. Capitol complex using nonviolent direct action tactics.. Please come back here to comment.

Of course, if this is to happen, we would need the GA's to overwhelming support. Can't happen without that step.

186 Comments

186 Comments


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[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (21381) 2 years ago

Thanks for re-posting this. It is probably the best post yet in this forum. As I replied back then, I'd still like to see something added regarding worker's rights. I think how our economic system values labor, how wages are set, etc. is a vital factor in how we move forward.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Thanks very much for your input and comments. Your words always help point the way.

[-] 1 points by jart (1145) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Any chance you regulars would be interested in using the search feature to dig up all the best threads so we can make a featured forum section

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

That would be awesome!

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

I know this will make me sound like a total noob but, . . . what search feature? I've heard it mentioned but don't know how to use it. I was going post a couple new threads but wanted to find out if they've already been covered before I did so. I've been absent from the site quite a bit lately and haven't been keeping up. Please help.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Sorry jart, could you walk those of us who are tech-idiots through this process. I looked and still don't know how we would do this.

[-] 1 points by jart (1145) from New York, NY 2 years ago

do what? search?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

What would we do, dig up the best threads and then PM them to you?

[-] 1 points by jart (1145) from New York, NY 2 years ago

It might be better to start a thread and keep editing it, and then let me know when it's done. :shrug: or maybe start a wiki page somewhere

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thanks.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6614) from St Louis, MO 2 years ago

Many thanks!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21381) 2 years ago

Yes, that's a good idea. Let me know if you're really going to do that and I'll make time to search through the threads for you. I have a good handle on what is what, as do some others.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

What might be the best post in the forum is hidden,

http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-does-a-soldier-defend-the-constitution-from-a-/

because it is too functional for rights and freedom.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21381) 2 years ago

Thanks for that. It is hard not to tear up while watching Shamar Thomas. What an amazing, amazing guy.

Why don't you shorten the post (few will read a post that long) and take out the long video. (I don't have time right now to watch that one myself.) and re-post it. It is very powerful.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I should be paying closer attention but can you tell me, is Shamar Thomas staying active in this nonviolent struggle? I sure hope so. Such a hero for speaking out.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21381) 2 years ago

I have no idea. But, I love that video. It is so moving.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I really hope he's stayed active in the movement. He was such an inspiration.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

No point. The post does not appear in the forum. It is hidden. If I didn't have the link to the post you responded to I wouldn't even be able to make this message. The notifications to the post you responded don't work as links, but I knew you posted and looked up the link.

The soldiers inquiry cannot be shortened anyway, and still retain its message. Rupperts video explains something important. We've never had a just war for warriors.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (21381) 2 years ago

Okay. I just think maybe one reason it is hidden is because people didn't respond. People don't like to read long posts so it will drop down to the bottom. Also, the time of day that you posted it matters. I think it is best to post in the evening when there are a lot of people online.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

This is a very moving post and I am proud to live in a country where so many soldiers stand up for what's right. Citizens owe a great debt to these soldiers and it should be repaid by us citizens working tirelessly to defend the rights of these soldiers who do the right thing.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Article 5 convention NOW!

Soldiers have a duty, American citizens have an allegiance. We can choose to feel a duty to assist the soldier in alliance to defend the constitution using law.

Yes, I'm very proud of what I've heard from some in reaction to that proposed inquiry they are constitutionally bound to make in fulfilling their oath. A soldier has one definite right, to serve under a lawful military authority. If a domestic enemy removes citizens ability to maintain a constitutional civil government, the soldier has the duty to defend the constitution by enabling citizens to use it to defend itself with its own law, Article 5.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Do you have an example of what this legislation might cover? Are there any bills Currently on deck that could be pushed?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (21381) 2 years ago

A few things that come to mind are employment-at-will, enforcement of the Fair Labor Standards Act, the definition of "temporary" workers, pension funding, union rights, etc.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

How do we strengthen the bond between occupy movement and unions? It seems as if both have so much to gain from this solidarity.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

All sounds good and certainly fits in with the group of goals listed which would fall under checking corporate power. Thanks very much for taking the time to explain.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree that worker's rights should be high priority and the issue of the value of labor is huge. Thanks for all your great posts. Any thoughts on the 3 things for discussion above (especially #3)?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Do you know why the orginal poster left the site? or anything about that, though I think it's about the ideas not the people. I find it interesting that this is the only post I have seen where there is an "Admin note" maybe it was before the disclaimer had been added.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

It's a long story. Short version is: I posted the original. Later changed username from "GandhiKingMindset" to "therising".

Here's the long version if you're interested as to why "Admin" note was added" Admin note was added because some site took my original post (without my permission) and set it up for voting . .. It was on . http://coupmedia.org/occupywallstreet/occupy-wall-street-official-demands-2009 . (scroll down to "List of Demands for Congress") And it got an enormous amount of airplay and a whole bunch of votes for what it's worth - - like 15,000 or something. I don't even know how they counted the votes. I honestly didn't pay much attention to it.

. It was just a posting to occupywallst.org forum with my ideas to get the conversation going. But because this other site posted it (without my permission I wish to reiterate) and called it an "official list of demands" (which it wasn't -- it was just a forum posting like any other -- and I hadn't even cleaned it up -- needed editing). Again, I never submitted it to "coup media" or whatever it is. They just took it.

So it was (wrongly) being reported as official by "coup media" (whatever that is)....and the next thing I knew Occupy Chicago was adopting them as their list of demands and then the Chicago Tribune reported on this. Then the Washington Times, Palm Beach Times and Wall St Journal wrongly reported this as an official list of demands as well. Totally wrong but there it was. Silly because if you read it carefully it's clearly a forum post by a forum user. It asks for input, suggests even that it might be submitted later to whoever ought make decisions for consideration. Never once implied anything official.

This all happened over a very short period of time. All I wanted to do was discuss the ideas on the forum just like any other user.

A few other Occupy groups adopted or posted the list. It was just huge misunderstanding.. Then there was another list that was super bizarre that had nothing to do with me that ended up getting AirPlay on fox news as an official list (which it definitely wasn't). I think that's when admin for this site added the note for any post that might be misunderstood as official. And I think it was a good thing they did.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

First let me say you caused quit a stir, congratulation!! Making noise is what it’s all about; well it’s at least a really important tool.

I think it is the key question, how do we maintain consensus and yet come up with actions so we can actually change things. One of the things we are seeing in Egypt is that without leaders to guard the revolution, the army seems happy to take things back to where they had been, of course the history of revolution leaders being what it is, people are wary. The media wants spokespeople, without them the network producer/editor becomes your spokesperson by picking and choosing which random person from the crowd they choose to show, or which portion of the people’s mic they put out. By not having leaders we allow the media to present whatever message they wish to about us, now given the power of the message we still did pretty well in public opinion, even with the little they got to hear.

Now I like the Constitution because it’s safe and it’s old, and as I’ve said other places, I will be fighting to defend it, if it comes to that. But we won’t get there in my lifetime, of course if OWS fails, we will get there, might only take twenty years, with advances in technology it gets easier and easier for fewer and fewer people to control more and more, we have over 2 million in prison now, how many would it take for the worst kind of revolution, 5, 10 million?

I think the answer is message, it’s only thing I see that can work, maybe I’m crazy but I really think we got here because people started lying, getting away with it, and with TV, nobody ever hears the truth, that’s what different than all those things we hear about, how rough campaigns were before the things people said, and so forth, what we don’t get is how it was presented, how wide spread, who was voting as we got through those days. I may be a bigger fan of 1984 than is healthy, but I see it everywhere around me, so what can I say. Here’s the thing about that, it is a technique, if you don’t want to find the answer to the question like, “Where is this hateful talk taking us?” You avoid the question by diminishing it, “It’s not as bad as it’s been before” not answering but implying that if it was worst before and we’re still here, it’s not that bad. Anytime I see avoidance like that it alerts me that it may be worst than I think. I blame a lot of what I see on Ford, when he pardoned Nixon, it was like the law don’t apply and instead of getting better after Watergate, it got worst, he couldn’t do it alone though all those people, like Chris Mathews who said he did the right thing “for the country” he did the worst possible thing for the country. Then it 2000, we did it all over again.

So now that the people heads are planted firmly deep into the sand, and their heads are stuff full of right wing talking points, how do we blast all that crap out and get them to address real issues like those you have suggested, and in truth these are the things we all know need to get done, in one form or another, maybe a few details here and there, but that’s the rub, what to do about hairy, ...details.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I also agree that people are lost in a labyrinth of lies and that much of this asleep mindset came from television. I know how hard won my worldview is, what it took to think for myself and figure out what's really going on. And I'm then sympathetic (somewhat) to the asleep members of our community because I was once one of them.

I think I read once that the average American watches 7 hours of TV a day. No wonder nihilistic worldview has taken ahold and people have transformed from citizens to consumers. I haven't had TV for almost 6 years and have enjoyed every minute of that.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Not watching TV I would think would help to bring life into focus.

I had the help of the NRA and National Review, as I had a number of coworkers that were reliable to bring me each new point throughout the years, when balancing what they said, knowing the source of all of it having mutiple "independent" reports with what I saw in the real world it allowed me to watch how they shaped the message through the years, of course this has made TV watching an action sport in my home, over the past ten years or so I have come to see how deeply the misreportng goes, again look at the 2001 tax cut, where's the 15% reduction? where's the reporting?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I think Chris Matthews is right. Nixon resigning wasn't an authentic catharsis for the nation. We didn't learn our lesson. We as a nation let the bad guys hijack our country. This short video lays it out pretty clearly. I think you'll enjoy this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvVAPsn3Fpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Of course I have the Moore DVD film library as well as both seasons of his TV show, which I can’t remember the name of right now. M. Moore, J. Stewart and B. Maher seem to understand this stuff better than Chomsky and Reich sometimes.

Great stuff!!

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thanks for posting these are eight great ideas.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

What do you think it would take to get level of support that would be necessary to have this direct action campaign be successful on Aug 4 2012?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Right off the top this is calling for sixty Senators, forget it not going to happen by 08/24/2012, so the first step to getting this done is to change it. Someday if we make ourselves heard loud and clear on Nov. then maybe, but 60 is tough for anything. So my first question is how do we make the changes needed to the document?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

You can change it however you like. Just copy, edit and post it as new. I wrote the original so I'm fine with you using it and changing however you like. Go for it!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Was talking to my son, (he's got the P.S. degree) about you longer reply, want to address it this AM. I’ll go there good morning.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Great!!!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

You will find me talking a lot about the need to defeat Rs, it's not because I think the Ds are perfect, it's this, every R that is reelected is a blow to OWS, not just in policy going forward but in the eyes of the people, there is no way anyone believes the Rs support us. So here's the deal whoever is there, another better R or a D after Nov will be more interested in listening if there's a political dead body lying on the ground between you, that's how you make them listen. It doesn't work the same if it's a D because then they call the TEA party to see what's up.

A couple of things house investigation into Wal-Street, Glass Steagall, should be easy with D led congress, letter writing, some of the other things are harder because it gets so detailed you end up trusting the writers and they may or may not support. I’m not that involved with actual government actives but in fiction they talk about citizens broads to review police actions if the city has had problems, I would think LA has something like this, do you think we could have something like that, not to suggest policy but to watch congress and check up on the details. For myself I’ve seen too many times they come out with the “Patriot Act”, something that makes all patriots vomit. Just spitballing.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree with you. To tell you the truth, I think we need to hit from the inside and the outside at the same time.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I do think pressure applied from without is essential, the beast is huge and it absorbs almost all that enter, one sort of middle path is to go after conservative Ds in the primary it's been done and the party takes notice, truth is it would be easier to take over the Ds than build a new party, but there are a number of Ds that would have to go. We got Clean Elections here in AZ in 1998, so about the 2002 elections was in place since then we have been the only state ever to recall a state senate leader. Now I don’t know if that’s the sort of thing you mean by “outside” but keep in mind the people who did this got behind a R and talked the D into not running because that was the best way to beat the SB 1070 dude, now to me that’s pretty much outside the system and savvy, other actions like showing up in numbers at foreclosure auctions, man I love that when I hear those stories. I think for me actions directed toward commerce rather than government, I think we take the government over at the ballot box, I really think we can. So in general that’s how I look at it. I think sometimes you change the economics of the thing through actions that affect commerce, make it cheaper to do the right thing and they will.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

here's part of the probelm a lot of people think a decade is a long time....

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Thanks for taking the time to read. Note: When I posted this originally, I simply brought together in one post all the best ideas and approaches I could find on the forum. Many thanks to all of you who early on identified what could be the first of many groups of issues we could rally around at mass non violent protests.

I think this first group (all aimed at getting money out of politics) is only one of many many parts that need to be pushed. I gravitated towards this group first simply because it seemed it held the promise of getting the 1%'s foot off our collective neck long enough that we could plan even larger actions.

In terms of tactics, nonviolent direct action holds such amazing power because the 1% and their minions don't know how to deal with it. It befuddles them. They look bad if they stand by while Goldman Sachs or Capitol Hill entrances are blocked and they look silly if they hogtie and haul off nonviolent protesters. America will continue to wake up this spring and the process will be accelerates if we follow ML Kig's advice and create intentional tension in smart and tactical ways to bring issues to the forefront.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Your posts are consistently good, and filled with specific ideas. I tend more toward just trying to get people to look at things in different ways; I have many years of experience talking with people on the right. The general concept of public financing for public elections, is something I feel I can speak to from a fundamental position (I support it). However there are others more adept at working out the details of how to get there, but I do my best to pay attention and support them that’s trying to do what’s best.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I would love to see public financing for public elections. Imagine the difference. How do we get that to be the norm?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Those of us with propositions can get it on the state ballots for state office, we did this AZ in 1998, but we have been having to fight the Chamber of Commerce and the GOP and now the Robert’s Court, (it is important to call it the Roberts’s Court, he needs to know how people will speak of his court after he is gone) I have spoke with people on here that didn’t know that it is the US Chamber of Commerce that is the true enemy, the other groups are just offshoots, they have to stay in the shadows, ALEC and such, not that what they do isn’t stuff we need to stop it’s just most people think of the Chamber as good guys, some of the local guys are ok, they get screwed by the US Chamber when big business conflicts with small. And of course like everything we want to do, we need to get rid of all the Republicans we can.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/republicans-try-to-kill-public-financing-in-arizon/

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

U.S. Chamber gave local chambers a bad name.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I remember listening to interviews with small local chapter members, talking about how in the free trade debate they were sold down the river so to speak, because the U.S. Chamber siding with big over small. That’s one of the biggest lies they put out talking about this and that for small business then passing regs that favor big over small, or at least do nothing to level the playing field. It was the state chamber that started the ball rolling against Clean Elections here in AZ, but I do wonder where even the smaller chambers determine which side of each fight, for instance where do they stand on Wal-Mart expansion into small America and the resulting disappearance of the locally owned store, something many people thought had value. I mean I really don’t know where they weighed in, I know there were some fights.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

It was really sad to see U.S. Chamber ruin the relatively good name of some local chambers. And U.S. Chamber is clearly now a corporate tool through and through. Who would believe anything they say at this point.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Hey if we can shine a bright light up ALEC's butthole I'll be happy with that, we can do a lot of good keeping pressure on them, I think, I hope.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I completely agree. If you look at today's news on this site, I think you'll be very pleased.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I will, I've been here, hey have you seen this thread?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/should-ows-spearhead-an-effort-to-have-the-minimum/

If you already there I haven't read it all yet, thanks for the tip.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Cool. Will check it out. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

see you over there, just a bump this AM :)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Thanks for all your great comments and posts!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you, I may be naive but I think we can help this along, networking through the web without editors, only tech help to keep us from being shouted down by trolls the way they did the healthcare town halls. We can contribute, if anybody reads our stuff.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

You are TOTALLY right. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has done some terrible things and they're a big reason the country got distracted by the corporate funded tea party movement that made this corporatist agenda appear populist.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and they are everywhere, getting talkingpoints/marching orders from the front office so to speak, they control all the small towns and most cities, this is why service work jobs pay is so low, they work to keep it that way

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

This is so damn true. And we need to counter that, awaken those people. There's a great book called "What's the Matter with Kansas" that describes this phenomenon. Farmers who were once progressive shifted right thanks to Karl Rove wedge issue campaigns.....and ended up voting themselves off their own land!!!! That's how powerful the wedge issues and mind control are.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I remember the book can't recall the auther right now, the thing is though when you depend on lies you have to count on keeping a lid on the truth, look at how they kept a lid on Bush not reducing the 15% tax rate in 2001, they were all in on that R's, D's C's and L's had Al Franken's producer all fired up about it but never made the air. If you want to know more I'll tell you says the most about how they work than anything I've ever seen. Point being though if we can get the truth out, any truth, it all hurts them and destorys their hard work lying to people.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

The truth is although some like me are built to provoke, cajole and push in some strategic and some not so strategic ways, others, like yourself are very solution oriented. This is the perfect combo. This seems clear. Some of us bring the tension and others, like yourself, do the really important part and give a place for people to run from the tension. They run into your arms and you show them a different way.

My type of approach tends to be more pushy, more sweeping, less artful. It's more like a rugby match only with nonviolence. Your method is more elegant and is the perfect compliment to the pushiness. One group takes humpy dumpty apart. Another puts him back together again.

I want to be clear that I do not seek distraction of the system..... I think the founders of this nation were brilliant, despite their obvious flaws. Go to the Jefferson Memorial sometime at night and read the inscriptions inside. You'll be awestruck. All I want is to help in whatever small way I can to inspire a good kind of tension that gets Americans to feel an appropriate level of disgust with how this elegant system has been hijacked by narrow corporate interests, reducing citizens to consumers and laying waste to our environment and our humanity.

I feel we need a giant shrug right now... A massive shaking off .... We need to shake just like a wet dog and regain our vision, find our compass, remember our dream. It is a good dream, an authentic dream. And it will carry us and sustain us as we push back against plutocratic, corpolitical forces that have inserted themselves between us and our great country.

I won't stand for it. And I think there are millions and millions of Americans who feel the same. We, the people, are starting to pay more attention to what we have in common rather than what separates us. In doing so, we grow ever closer to the day when we realize we, the 99%, had the power all along. We begin to realize instinctively that we can make decisions from a position of unified strength rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

The people are rising. We are an unstoppable force.

As Breyton Breytonbach put it before being sentenced to prison in South Africa for engaging in nonviolent protest, "Whether we win or whether we die, freedom will rise like the sun through the morning clouds."

Damn straight. We shall overcome.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you, well stated. Some of the most informative discussions I have had were with my son about Jefferson, he is not so forgiving of his flaws, while I consider the times and the body of his work, and I feel he is the Father of our country, if it’s even rational to attribute something like that to one person. Make no mistake my son comes well prepared. It is the honest discussions such as those that allow our thoughts/theories/opinions to evolve. I feel we have come to the point where the GOP is required to defend ever more false positions to satisfy the monster they have unleashed within their ranks. Having made my position clear though, I do believe there is a careful balancing act to be done between government/freedom, the GOP’s position here is on the exact wrong side of that balance invoking corporate freedom while restricting personal freedom. But because the fear is an actual concern they are able to corrupt it to their purpose.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Wow.... Was just retreading your comment. You hit the nail on the head. They are corrupting fear to their purpose. How do we neutralize that fear? How do we get the 99% to realize we have the power and we always have??

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Truth is the cleanser, just like when people point out the obvious wealth inequality, there is overwhelming support; they see how people are using their money to buy our government. The message is powerful and simple. Now here’s the problem EVERY person with a microphone has a stake in keeping things as they are. A few months ago people talked about wealth inequality people accused them of “class warfare” but they kept talking, because we were there and the dems thought they might get some votes, (votes get mic time) If we want them to keep fighting/talking about us we have to be there for them, if we want to cover ourselves up in a cozy non-political blanket so we don’t have to be afraid of scaring off those who don’t want to get the money out anyway, then why should they fight for us, if we are not there for those who support really addressing wealth inequality and money in politics, then why should they risk their seats for us?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I completely agree.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6569) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

going to spend a little time on the action question will be on later with what I can come up with

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Cool. Thanks.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Very well said. I think you've hit the nail on the head. There is a subtle balance required and modern day conservatives have totally tipped the scales in a radical way that has harmed our nation.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

My favorite quote from Dostoevsky that speaks to the great effort by millions of people to break loose of these chains:

"Today, everyone asserts his own personality and strives to live a full life as an individual.  But these efforts lead not to a full life but to suicide, because instead of realizing his personality, man only slips into total isolation.  For in our age, man has been broken up into self-contained individuals, each of whom retreats into his lair, trying to stay away from the rest, hiding himself and his belongings from the rest of mankind, and finally isolating himself from people and people from him.

And while he accumulates material wealth in his isolation, he thinks with satisfaction how mighty and secure he has become, because he is mad and cannot see that the more goods he accumulates, the deeper he sinks into suicidal impotence.  The reason for this is that he has become accustomed to relying only on himself; he has split off from the whole and become an isolated unit; he has trained his soul not to rely on human help, not to believe in man and mankind, and only to worry that the wealth and privileges he has accumulated may get lost.

Everywhere men today are turning scornfully away from the truth that the security of the individual cannot be achieved by his isolated efforts but only by mankind as a whole.

BUT AN END  to this fearful isolation is bound to come and all men will understand how unnatural it was for them to have isolated themselves from one another.  This will be the spirit of the new era and people will look in amazement at the past when they sat in darkness and refused to see the light. . .

. . . Until that day, we must keep hope alive, and now and then a man must set an example, even if only an isolated one, by trying to lift his soul out of its isolation and offering it up in an act of brotherly communion, even if he is taken for one of God's fools.  

This is necessary to keep the great idea alive."

[-] 1 points by RedSkyMorning (220) 2 years ago

I like it. But I think we needed to added a push on our local leaders. They are subject to losing their seats if a concerted effort is added to them. We can't replace Congress or change it, except with more of the same and they ignore us. We still have state and local rights over our communities. We can revolt locally.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I think it's both. I think we need to hit inside and outside, national and local.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Looking over this post again, the most important point, out of many important points here, seems to be the issue of coordination of protest action to assure maximum turnout at those events of major significance.

That, as well as making our presence keenly felt in a resolute and concerted effort to exert our influence in this years elections, seems absolutely necessary. Fighting on these two fronts effectively, and in a coordinated way, we will open the field for pushing through our goals in the coming years. The question then becomes, how will we achieve these aims?

I think this should become our primary objective. If we achieve this we will have streamlined this movement into a force capable of a truely historical triumph. Solving these key issues is paramount, even if it entails an overhaul of the movements current structure, in some way that I freely admit I currently have been unable to grasp.

But if we put our heads together, in a selfless spirit of cooperation, I am sure that we can achieve it, and if so I am confident that victory will ultimately be ours.

Finally, I would say that the effort on the part of all of us as individuals to reconnect to a spitituality based upon a respect for the sacredness of live, of humanity, and all other living things - a serious and unflinching effort at introspection in the desire for self-understanding, and a rejection of the notion that our earth is nothing but a matrerial commodity to be exploited for our enrichment, is essential for our mutual survival and ultimate wellbeing.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Right on! I think you're exactly right on all your points above

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

It is a statement of the situation, to the best of my ability to comprehend it. Thanks for that affirmation. It is very difficult for me to say these things, in a way, because I am actually quite an introverted person, and it goes against my basic grain to put my ideas forward like this. But the nature of the times seems to dictate that we struggle against the desire to be private men and women. When human survival is at stake, I think the time for retreating into the comfortable life of privacy must take a back seat to civic duty, no matter how unpleasant that is for some of us:)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

So true

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Let's roll

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Let's roll

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Once we have the ability to have 800,000 people gather at the Capitol, I think the action discussed here would be excellent.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Nonviolence is paramount. We can't get distracted as we push for great ends. We must maintain the means in order to have good ends.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Feb 29 is hugely important

[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 2 years ago

OWH supporters...This is all part ot the future of the Occupy movement. We now shall move closer to the gates of the White House. We are preparing for this move as a write as our lawyers are regaining our property, and freeing the few brothers and sisters that were detained. OWH is now in full swing. We now tell this President and illegal congress that they are only guests in our house and we evict them. This is our message going forward. This is the world and direction of the GA DC...Occupy the White House Now!!!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

It's not the whitehouse. It's congress.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

laws are passed in congress

laws are executed by the president

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

True. But in current climate, it's really congressional occupation that can get our republic back on track.

[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 2 years ago

OWH supporters...This is all part ot the future of the Occupy movement. We now shall move closer to the gates of the White House. We are preparing for this move as a write as our lawyers are regaining our property, and freeing the few brothers and sisters that were detained. OWH is now in full swing. We now tell this President and illegal congress that they are only guests in our house and we evict them. This is our message going forward. This is the world and direction of the GA DC...Occupy the White House Now!!!

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Guess what? This forum software is such crap, the page won't load on my obsolete computer. And I'm not giving corporations anymore $.

A normal message board, that doesn't allow techno sabotage as this one does, would have many pages for your 2000 replies and I could at least view them one pagefull at a time. Here, I cannot even see the text of the OP.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I think you just have to wait a minute. It will load.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

I waited about 5 earlier and no draw pagie. It looks like this.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/owspageslow.jpg/

It's the web 2.0 compliant server software. Corporate (manufacturers, software developers and ad industry collusion) advertising scam getting us to pay for the memory needed to run more ads.

OWS uses it to create an invisible level of manipulation and their page layout , continuos posts of the thread, makes it possible.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Any luck yet opening?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Shoot. I'm not a technical guy so not sure how to help. Hope at some point you are able to bring this up somewhere. Eager to hear your thoughts on it because you are clearly committed to the cause.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 2 years ago

Those committed are deprived of power, or in this case the economics to buy computers and software to see your post and participate.

This is the result of America allowing the US district courts to make unconstitutional decisions, as in the apple v microsoft case. That decision forced the industry into unfair competition and apple eventually had to adopt the intel chip. When that happened, all the software producers stopped writing for the motorola and no compatibility was possible.

Now Americas computers reciprocate with secret control. If the decision had been just, virus' and web 2.0 sabotage would not work, or be adapted to.

ON EDIT: Your recent reply is invisible after the first notification, and the reply buttons were not working on it. Techno sabotage. The Soldiers Inquiry post never did show in the forum, even the first time it was posted. http://algoxy.com/ows/owsinfiltratingforum.html Also, I get the impression you did not get the PM I sent. elanuslecurus@lycos.com

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

It's time for humanity to rise and shine.

[-] 6 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

Yes, it is time.

There can be no doubt that the current levels of debt being incurred by the US admin cannot be sustained, even by continued invasions and coup d'etats.

The only people who will benefit from more war are those with holdings in the military industrial complex. That would be most of congress.

They don't care about America, or about Americans.

Take back your country, while there is still a semblance of normalcy, and a court system that might be able to help your cause.

More strength and solidarity to you all, from Australia.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Thanks for your encouragement. You said: "Take back your country, while there is still a semblance of normalcy, and a court system that might be able to help your cause.". I think you're right on target. We do not have unlimited time and we must use all nonviolent means at our disposal to get this corporate foot off our necks so we can rebuild this system and make our founding fathers proud.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Im sorry, I havent been able to read through this yet, but I suppose all our hopes are pinned on a general awakening. This might strike a lot of people as fantasic, but there has been a gradual and powerful synthisis of insights over the long couse of human thought, that when taken together, offer humanity it's first real opportunity to come to a comprehensive underatnding of the meaning of life.

These concepts arise from many sources: from advances physics, from psychology (family dinamics and their effects on larger society), from Einsteins political insights, from the profound wisdom of Plato and socrates, from the compassion of Jesus and of histories othergreat spiritual leaders, from the better manifestations of religion, from the theory of evolution, etc., etc.

There is a rising philosophical consensus forming out of all of these seemingly unrelated subjects; a framework for a new and advanced understanding of the meaning of life - one that will eventually lead to nothing less that a powerful and shattering revolution in human consciousness, and to a spiritual renewal: an affirmation of the transcent spirit over the simply material philosophy of modern post industrial states, and the opportunity to once again reach toward the divine.

My only concern is whether ithiswill come to fruition in time to avert the impending disaster brought forth through the ignorance of blind materialsim.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

It's beginning to look like it will come to fruition in time. See promising actions coming up: http://occupywallst.org/forum/fasten-your-seatbelts-and-mark-your-calendars-janu/

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thanks. My greatest worry is that we are running out of time. On another post, when I said we are at the most critical point in human history, somebody thought I was reffering to the OWS movement itself, rather than the numerous critical problems that humanity faces, which OWS is attempting to address.

The media, seem to see our need to address multipule problems as a sign of lack of focus on our part, rather than admit the magnitude of the problems out there to be faced.

It is this sheer stubborn persistance of the ego - that which refuses to anything beyond their own prejudices and hatreds that is our worst enemy, and it resides within all of us. In order to win the battle of survival we need to win the struggle against our egos. You know this clearly, and that is why I have thought very highly of what you have had to say here.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

How do we get the necessary numbers for this to happen successfully 8/4?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I wish I knew. No mechanism seems to be in place to limit the number of actions, and coordinate turnout at actions of great importance. That seems to be a serious flaw in the leadersless structure of the movemnet. I wonder if this is something that could be addressed by the 99% Declairation, because, whatever the strengths of OWS, and so far they have proven to be many, they don't seem to be getting a hand on this critical issue. Perhaps the 99% could create a task force to organize effective communication and coordination.

Just thought. I have been pretty stumped by the question.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I need to think about this more. You are exactly right that we must address this key issue. The movement WANTS to get its groove on. You can just feel it!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

How are you feeling at this point about the "running out of time" aspect. My sense is that we have time this spring and summer and that that awakening in America could lead to something big.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Boy, that is the 64 dollar question, isn't it! It is very hard to predict how far this movement will spread by summer, and furthermore, the spread of this movement globally will at some point influence it's spread here in the US. All I can say is what I've said before - that we should use every means at our disposal short of violence.

What took place in Oakland, I can only call a response to yet another example of violent state repression. At some point the state's violent responce to non-violent demonstrations is likely to drive this movement to self-defense, and this is a very problematic question that I am not capable of resolving. I think the whole movement must come up with ideas here. It seems to me that we must, in as far as possible short of outright capitulation, try to remain non-violent to the very best of our ability, within the realm of what is possible.

I think we must remain flexable, while planning for as many contingencies as possible - a very complex game. The difficulty now is to not allow ourselves to be branded as violent, while at the same time not capitulating to brutality, and I'm not sure how to do that.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree. We must remain nonviolent. That is essential.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Do you agree that the momentum is shifting in a positive way for the movement considering Jan 17 Jan 20 and Feb 29?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I think that there is growing support for this movement among the "silent majority," and that is what matters. And yes, I think the turnout of hundreds at the MLK vigil in 10 degree temperatures was yet one more sign that we aren't going anywhere. I think Spring and Summer will tell the tale, and I am optimistic. The situation is too clear for the majority to go on looking the other way.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I completely agree with everything you said above. Additionally, the election will also help fan the flames of the OWS movement (as will high unemployment, college graduates and high school graduates without jobs, rising homeless population, visible disparities etc etc etc. This movement will be turbocharged this spring and will peak this summer in my view.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

How could we possibly let the opportunity that has been given us, the coincidence of this movement taking shape in an election year, pass us by. If we did, then we would later regret it.

I've been around long enough to see the way the left is always fragmented by propoganda - split into ineffective, warring camps. We must seek unity, and the fact is that there are sincere Democrats in Congress, there just aren't enough of them to put forward an agenda.

Why would we not take advantage of that situation?

I have seen the Republicans win election after election simply by getting the left-wing to discouraged to take part. That is sad.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

This is such an enormously important moment in American and world history. We have the opportunity for a true awakening here. Once the 99% realize they are the 99%, realize they've been ruled over by a tiny minority for decades, then we, the 99% will make decisions from a position of unified power rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Exactly. We can influence the Democractic Party, because if we vote we will become a large and growing part of their constiuency. They will have to give ground, and there are perhaps a third of them that already agree with our message anyway.

If the Repubs. aren't really hammered in this next election, our prospects for making our goals a reality will be dealt a crushing blow.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

So true

[-] -1 points by SmeggitySpooge (78) 2 years ago

I love Pelosi, she's so down to earth and one of us.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

So do I.

[-] 3 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

That remark about a porno was intended to portray my comment "so do I" completely out of context, to make me look like the slimy piece of scum that you are. Where are they finding these trolls they are paying on this forum, in the wards for the criminally insane, or are they just run-of-the-mill Republicans? It's these kind of comments that will result in your eventual imprisonment, if that's not where you are now. You disgust me. You're not even a human being, but some lower form of life altogether.

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

Why do you keep insisting that I am a right winger?

[-] -1 points by SmeggitySpooge (78) 2 years ago

She's my hero.

I wanna be vulgarly wealthy like her and see no problem with employing any unethical means necessary to get it.

I certainly believe all of DC should profit highly from being elected.

[-] 0 points by JuanFenito (847) 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure I like her, but I can't remember if she's a Democrat or a Republican. I'll know if I like her once you tell me.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

The best argument for Nancy Peloisi, aside from her voting record, is that fact that the right wing has been so relentleassly brainwashed by the oligarchy to hate her guts. The more you guys hate her, the more I like her.

[-] -2 points by SmeggitySpooge (78) 2 years ago

She's got that big D in front of her name and lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$ in her bank accounts!

I want to make a porno with her.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

This really is a key window of opportunity Goethe occupy moment as you say above. I'm hoping we can really come out in full force nonviolently with massive direct action in New York, DC and other major cities and do a full court press that will begin the process of restoring our democracy.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Totally agree

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I really like the way you put this. I think you're right. Once we join together, we'll be empowered to shed the skin of our small selves and join in communion, community, a collective...... The ego drops away and humanity rises. We discover the power of solidarity. We discover our highest and best selves.

As Henry James put it, connect. Only connect."

As James Baldwin put it, "They saw the light in the eyes. It was always there, waiting to be found. And it is the only light there is in this world."

I think solidarity and joy both come from compassion. And compassion comes ultimately from recognizing that we all suffer, we all die. This recognition, this epiphany deeply recognized yields compassion. That's how we drop our petty differences and join together as the 99% and....eventually as the 100%. For the 1% are prisoners of this sham of a divisive system as we are. They just have better outfits and tastier prison food.

The prison, it seems to me, is the prison of obsession with self interest. This is reinforced and maintained via a bloodsucking consumer culture that breeds nihilism and fatalism in order to create hopelessness. This hopelessness causes people to cling to materialism.

But, as the signs say, another world is possible. It's happening. Nothing can stop it now. More and more people are awakening every day. So long as love, vigilance, justice and nonviolence guide us, we will win.

As Martin Luther King, Jr. put it, "The moral arc of the universe bends towards justice."

And as Cornel West put it, "Justice is what love looks like in public."

Here we go :)

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

This comment is very appropriate in light of today's events in Oakland. It is hard to envision a better world comming out of yet more violence.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Thanks GypsyKing for the reminder at this crucial juncture. The powers that be can shut down this movement pretty easily and quickly. They know what to do with violence.

However, they don't know what to do with active non-violent resistance. They just look terrible no matter how they react -- whether they drag a young middle America looking protester off after zip tying them or they stand by helplessly as the entrance to Congress or Goldman Sachs is blocked.

We must reread and remember the history of Gandhi and King to remind ourselves just how powerful nonviolence is. It is not just that it helps you win. Additionally, in taking a truly nonviolent approach, there is a beautiful side benefit. True nonviolence, as Martin Luther King, Jr. put it, requires that one love their oppressor so much that they want to help set them right.

There is a move in the martial art Aikido that goes like this: An aggressor or attacker comes at you. Instead of resisting, you take a slight step to the left and move WITH the momentum of the attacker. With a bit of non-lethal leverage in the right spot at the right time, you then help the attacker to the ground where they'll be safer. The entire maneuver is done in the spirit of helping the other person who is out of control. This maneuver is somewhat akin to what nonviolent direct action can do in turning the tables while keeping a mindset of love.

Nonviolence is about creating tension. Martin Luther King, Jr. (who clearly borrowed from Gandhi's play book) put it like this in his "Letter from the Birmingham Jail". As you read this, think about King sitting in a jail cell in a jean jacket, an occupier from back in the day, an occupier for the same cause of justice that is being pursued today::

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood."

"The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation."

Here's the entire "Letter from the Birmingham Jail": http://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/dos/mlk/letter.html . It's a treasure and is as timely as ever.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thank you so much for this comment and the link. The simple fact is, that in a country the size of the US, with so many separate groups of people so heavily armed, our only hope is to stay with nonviolence, and to reaffirm the system of democracy that it already established. It must be fixed, not overthrown, because as it stands it IS a revolutionary system, created with the express purpose of advancing human rights.

Violence is beyond stupid, it seems suspiciously well suited to the strategy of the 1%.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I hope that many of the young people involved in the movement will read Gene Sharp, King and Gandhi and see the logic and effectiveness of direct nonviolent action. This can raise the level of pressure from the outside such that real change can be achieved by different arm of the same group on the inside. I believe this is the secret to our future success, creating this tension through nonviolent direct action that makes the environment ripe for real change on the inside. This is doable. It has been done. We really need to follow the playbook left to us. It is our birthright!

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Very True!!!

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

The right tool for the right job. The right leverage at the right moment in the right place in the right amount. King and Gandhi were MASTERS at this. ;)

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

They were!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

And they always made sure the press was right there when the provocation occurred... :)

King put it this way:

"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks to so dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent-resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must we see the need for nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood."

"The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. I therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation."

Here's the entire "Letter from the Birmingham Jail": http://abacus.bates.edu/admin/offices/dos/mlk/letter.html . It's a treasure and is as timely as ever.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

How do we get to the point that we have enough support to have this be a success on August 4? Obviously, this requires much advanced planning. But before that would get under way, we would obviously need a strategy that is plausible to attract sufficient numbers. What strategies might there be?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

I just got an email newsletter from OWS, outlining this months actions, their locations, etc. I think this is a very postitive step forward, and become a very useful tool towards concentration of effort:)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I completely agree. Totally cool. This is going to get really fun soon.

PS - I love the fact that Matt Taibbi has formally aligned with OWS by being a part of the recent bank march where he gave a talk in front of Bank of America. So damn cool. Taibbi knows what's what. He's outed so many wrongdoers in the Wall St regime. His articles always inform and make you smile :)

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Great! I'm getting really excited!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I completely agree. The opposition doesn't know what to do with nonviolence. Therefore, it is by far our greatest weapon.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

All I can think of is improved outreach, and a commitment from all the nations GAs to participate. Obviously we all have limited means, so the number of events we can partisipate in is limited. But there should be a full-out commitment if we go to DC, I think.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree. It has to be massive.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Have you seen the film "Mindwalk" based on the Fritjov Capra book "The Turning Point"? Seems to relate directly to what lure talking about here.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

No, I havent. and unfortunately I have a reading list now that will take months to go through. But I'll put it on my list.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Totally understand. Just put the film "Mindwalk" on your list. It is TOTALLY down your alley. It will blow you away in a wonderful way. I think you and this film are made for each other. I have no doubt whatsoever. As sure of this as I have been of anything.

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Thanks, I will definately do so.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

You'll LOVE it :)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I think your analysis is on target. It's a bit of a horse race. I suppose then, the challenge is to take action that builds humanity's chances of triumphing over corporatism while at the same time maintaining a peaceful life conducive to the desired outcome. I guess this is where the Gandhi quote "Be the change you wish to see in this world" came from.

So, what are your thoughts on items 1, 2 and most importantly 3 in the post above?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Any suggestions on next steps?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

The three upcoming events: jan 17, jan 20 and Feb 29 are going to give some good momentum.

[Removed]

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

In the spirit of equality and the forwarding of a functioning system.

Some interesting Food for Thought considerations ….

The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971...before computers, before e-mail, before cell phones, etc.

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.

I'm asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.

In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

Congressional Reform Act of 2011

Term Limits.

12 years only, one of the possible options below..

A. Two Six-year Senate terms

B. Six Two-year House terms

C. One Six-year Senate term and three Two-Year House terms

No Tenure / No Pension.

A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.

In the spirit of promoting awareness and proper functioning to government.

Some interesting Food for Thought considerations ….

The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds) took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple! The people demanded it. That was in 1971...before computers, before e-mail, before cell phones, etc.

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took 1 year or less to become the law of the land...all because of public pressure.

I'm asking each addressee to forward this email to a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.

In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed around.

Congressional Reform Act of 2011

Term Limits.

12 years only, one of the possible options below..

A. Two Six-year Senate terms

B. Six Two-year House terms

C. One Six-year Senate term and three Two-Year House terms

No Tenure / No Pension.

A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people.

Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/11. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves .

Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

Contact your individual representative and senator …

If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time .

THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!!!!! If you agree with the above, pass it on. If not, just delete

The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves .

Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

Contact your individual representative and senator …

If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive the message. Maybe it is time .

THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!!!!! If you agree with the above, pass it on. If not, just delete

[+] -4 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 2 years ago

The Advocacy:

  1. I agree that we must restore prudent banking - why are we advocating restoration of come of Glass/Steagall and not the whole of it?

  2. Yes, prosecution of fraud that has taken place in the banking/investment sector must have its day in court.

  3. Yes - corporations are not people, and in fact they do not have tongues, and so one cannot conclude they have some inherent right to free speech.

    • I'm not sure how to provide air time or print space to politicians running for office - legislative fiat may not be the best method. I don't know.
  4. Not sure about the Buffet rule either - but given the size of our debt to gdp it would seem drastic measures are immediately necessary. Therefore I suggest the possibility of a two step approach:

    • short term: ending Bushite tax breaks and a variety of corporate loopholes

    • long term: redesign of the tax code, such that it makes our tax policy competitive with other nations as far as business taxes go; and will reliably fund debt reduction without loss of services.

  5. Yes - SEC needs proper staff and funding to properly function.

  6. Yes - Lobbyists must pack up, go home, and find a legitimate job.

  7. Yes - the revolving door needs to stop revolving.

  8. Yes - corporations are not people.

As To Tactics:

It doesn't seem to me that Congress will act on these measures in an election year - unless significant numbers of legislators from both houses think it is good for their campaign.

Because it is a campaign year, we should consider ways to get challengers to support these efforts - constituencies where it proves popular will create pressure on incumbents to support these measures as well - creating a feedback loop of changing perceptions.

An event isolated in DC may get national news - but fails to capitalize on the manpower of citizens who can't make it to DC who will be inclined to participate. Strategies should be designed to take advantage of this manpower in ways that are mutually supportive.

Edit

I would point out that the movie Inside Job made a very clear case indicating that conservatives set out to install conservative activist judges in part for the purpose of financial deregulation. With that in mind, we must overturn that entire line of thinking as it pertains to the economy. We need a new economic philosophy - and that philosophy needs to be reflected in the various administrative positions that require it, and at the educational institutions around the country.

Without this long term commitment to some other economic philosophy, it is certain that the issue of deregulation will once again rear its head - baring of course, some global calamity that renders the whole debate meaningless.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Deregulation has been incredibly harmful for U.S. Why do people still blindly follow and support this dangerous path?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Was just retreading your comment zendog. What are your thoughts on how we can get sufficient numbers to get this thing to work for an Aug 4, 2012 date?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I think you make a lot of excellent points here and I need to think more about them.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

The three actions discussed here re Jan 17th, Jan 20th and Feb 29th seem to be moves in the right direction. http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/fasten-your-seatbelts-and-mark-your-calendars-janu/ . One can see how this "triple play" that hits at the heart of the issues in some ways could really dial up the energy level of the movement. Just need mass #'s of us physically participating and spreading the word.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I agree with the great points you're making here. Need to study this response of yours and think about how the ball can be moved in the direction you're suggesting. Thanks so much for taking the time to look at this and respond so thoughtfully.

[+] -4 points by gosso920 (-24) 2 years ago

2000 comments out of a US population of 300 million.

You are the 0.067 percent!

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Stay tuned on May 1

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (9780) 2 years ago

Alexander conquered the world by himself. What percentage of the world was he?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

What's your point?

[-] 0 points by fairforall (279) 2 years ago

his point is incorrect. some people commented multiple times.

[-] 1 points by FartBottom (8) 2 years ago

I likey

[-] 0 points by Reneye (118) 2 years ago

Is that you Zen?

[-] 1 points by FartBottom (8) 2 years ago

I was just testing bold.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

OSTA : First we had one, then two sponsors for the "One Subject at a Time Act." NOW WE HAVE SIX!

We've just gained 4 new co-sponsors.

This means that you now have multiple new chances to become more powerful! Here's how to . . .

Do two simple things that will make it more likely that some of these new "One Subject" sponsors will . .

Ask their friends in Congress to become sponsors too.
Also sponsor our "Read the Bills" and "Write the Laws" acts.

STEP ONE: Go to the Facebook pages for each new co-sponsor and thank them for supporting the "One Subject at a Time Act."

Representative Mo Brooks of Alabama: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Congressman-Mo-Brooks/155220881193244?sk=wall Representative Ann Marie Buerkle of New York: http://www.facebook.com/RepBuerkle?sk=wall Representative Robert T. Shilling of Illinois: http://www.facebook.com/congressmanbobbyschilling?sk=wall Representative Allen B. West of Florida: http://www.facebook.com/AllenWestFL?sk=wall

Use your "thank you" to suggest that they send a "Dear colleague" letter to their friends in Congress, asking them to become co-sponsors too.

Also ask them to consider introducing the "Read the Bills Act" and the "Write the Laws Act." Share the links for those bills with them . . .

https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/rtba/ https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/write-the-laws/

Many of you have done this already with Reps. Marino and Posey. It's had an effect. In fact, we know it's been a positive motivator for Rep. Marino to seek additional publicity for OSTA and to recruit his colleagues.

STEP TWO: Call and say thank you for sponsoring the "One Subject at a Time Act", and suggest that they send a "Dear Colleague" letter asking other members of Congress to also co-sponsor "One Subject."

Rep. Mo Brooks: Phone: (202) 225-4801 Rep. Ann Marie Buerkle: (202) 225-3701 Rep. Bobby Schilling: (202) 225-5905 Rep. Allen B. West: (202) 225-3026

And finally, if you think we're doing a worthy job, consider making a financial contribution here.

Jim Babka President DownsizeDC.org, Inc.

D o w n s i z e r - D i s p a t c h

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[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I don't think that this is receiving enough attention.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Don't really care whether people read my posts or not but hope some who hadn't been involved before begin to wrestle with the issues on this forum. It seems like the whole secret to this movement is moving it beyond the usual suspects and into mainstream America. A lot has already been done by many good people but obviously still more work to be done. The real work, of course, isn't done by us folks with day jobs typing on computers. It's being done by real activists who are organizing, occupying, marching and drawing attention to the injustices in this great country that is currently hijacked by corporate interests. The soul of the country is still intact, though and I firmly believe that soon the people will once again run their government. It's about damn time. :)

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

What do you think it would take to get the necessary level of support so that it could happen Aug 4 2012?

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

State by State petitions for campaign finance reform. Unite in common cause.

http://www.change.org/petitions#search/Petition%20to%20the%20government/7

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

We need to get these petitions out to a wider audience. How about this? http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-kick-the-occupy-movement-into-high-gear/

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Great strategy!

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thanks. Please share in it. Circulate for better coverage. Internet word of mouth advertising.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Will do

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago
[-] 0 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Man, the 1% just never quit do they? They are determined to wreck this great country of ours for their own short term gain in the next quarter.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Greed is blind and unreasoning. You might even say suicidal, homicidal at the very least.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

The saddest part is that nobody is truly benefitting from this hijacked system. Even the 1% are victims of it (despite the fact that they have nicer clothes, food and toys. They are playing a role dictated to them as well and they certainly aren't fulfilled/happy in that role.--- By definition, as Dostoevsky points out in the Brothers Karamazov, a person cannot be happy as an isolated unit. It was ML King who said, "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be and you can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. All of us are inextricably linked."

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

So true. Pushed much further and the whole house will come down. Filthy rich and all.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Make no mistake. I believe we need to keep the system. Our founders were brilliant despite their flaws. I think we need to nonviolently remove those who have HIJACKED that system so we can restore our republic. So many have fought and died to protect this precious experiment. I don't think we should toss the baby out with the bath water. It's a good baby and shows real promise.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you.

So true.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I'm glad you feel the same. It's so easy to get frustrated and just want to trash the whole thing. I'm not sure how we as a people keep from falling prey to that slippery slope. I'll tell you what did it for me: on a recent trip east to DC, I visited the Jefferson Memorial at night. If we Americans could all do that and read the inscriptions on those walls, we could restore this republic and rise again.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (26479) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes this country could benefit a lot from rededicating to our founding principals.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

I really believe what you are saying here is true. I wish more people could envision this solution rather than falling off the slippery slope to trashing the whole thing.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 2 years ago

Right on. I hope we can find ways to spread that message.