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Forum Post: What do you think of a rolling jubilee type action to launch and support class action lawsuits ( Lawsuits in general ? ) for the PEOPLE. A CONVERSATION.

Posted 1 year ago on Nov. 30, 2012, 2:19 p.m. EST by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Would involve an enormous amount of planning and logistics to do it right but of that were surmountable, it would be pretty damn huge. I love it.


Law-firms/lawyers already exist it would be a matter of retaining a good one that could organize/pursue the effort of initiating suits and forwarding them through the courts. The Peoples responsibility would be in donating to fund the suits - as well as bringing forward actionable items.

It might all be kicked off with one major issue/item and expand from there.


Here's someone who has quite a bit of experience and success in working 'for the people' with class action lawsuits.

http://deadpeasantinsurance.com/about/


Yes - I think it would need to begin with one major issue that could be a real win if money was put behind it.


I submitted the idea to this forum site - perhaps you could do the same - show that there is real interest here.


Probably better (if you're so inclined ) to start a post and get a lot of people talking about it and agreeing with it and then submit. Would be more persuasive.


There could also be a post or a few or a dozen? or more? I will put one out now.


Please Join The Conversation

The People putting the law to work For The People


Class Action Lawsuit...YES!! The way I see it, they are complicit in murder. OWS is in a beautiful position to do this. 'They' would sit up and pay attention then, wouldn't they?! All of a sudden OWS would take on an additional serious tone. Why not several class action lawsuits in the various arenas.

They keep us all very busy, chasing our bills and lives. Maybe its time we kept them busy for a while. Get them, using their own legal system. How satisfying would that be??


These actions can be expensive - but if handled like the rolling jubilee - a telethon to launch legal action for the people by the people. Who Knows How far such an initiative could bring us along the road to a better world for ALL.


You're right. There is nothing that can stop us, if the will to take on one or more of the individual corporate/financial segments, is there?! This really is something that should be put forth in an OWS meeting. I wonder if OWS would do better at this kind of litigation if it was a kind of not-for-profit organization or some other type of association. These kind of legal questions are not my area, but it would be interesting to investigate an action like this in moving forward as OWS, being a 'legal force' to be reckoned with.


I think OWS could forward the idea and Occupy Affinity Legal Groups could be established. I see this as a possible world wide action. Perhaps operating on a local as well as national basis here in the USA and repeating the same operation in other countries. I submitted a query to this site as to what they think of the idea - please do the same.

Everyone who thinks bringing lawsuits of the people into being is a GR8 idea - please forward and circulate the idea and perhaps ask the forum site as well. Show interest/enthusiasm.


Sounds great! Will do! I'll let the forum know what I submit.


Awesome - this could be the HUGE game changer. {:-])

I wonder - bring suit against the corpoRAT set-up but also Government and individuals in government that are working against the people/society/economy/environment/world?


Please Join The Conversation

The People putting the law to work For The People

124 Comments

124 Comments


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[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I can't recall which revolutionary writer said this as part of a list of suggestions for revolutionaries, but it's spot on: (paraphrasing) -- Hold the elite to their own rules. They can't possibly follow them. You will unnerve them to no end and shake the power structure.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

As The "saying goes" - no one is above the law. {:-])

Let's see the saying made REAL.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Yes!

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

This seems like a great idea, but isn't part of the problem the fact that they aren't doing anything illegal? I'm pretty sure they would drag it out in court, waste your money and come out laughing. Can we sue them for amending the constitution?

This is why i'm really starting to admire what bensdad is trying to do because it could remove that legal armor and make them once again vulnerable to their actions. From that point it would certainly be more possible to create functional progress.

bensdad's website is http://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com although it hasn't been loading for me recently (not sure why but there's always something funky about free hosting).

I'm trying to talk about it here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-few-ideas-think-hard-and-aim-high/

[-] 1 points by Shule (2062) 1 year ago

As underdog says below, they do not have to do anything illegal, i.e. criminal. One can pursue matters in a civil court where all one has to do is demonstrate a person's actions resulted one's loss, financial or otherwise. That should be a pretty easy do if one can find a lawyer serious enough to take on a case.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

I just don't think it would be easy. They own the system, inside and out. Maybe i have some misconception about this corruption but it seems like this kind of thing isn't going to fly until some of that legal armor is disintegrated.

I have a bad feeling about trusting a system which they have become so masterful of. Even behind the scene they can bribe with money or put a gun to somebody. I feel like the only sure thing is going to be harnessing mass voting to rebuild the system in a way that controls them instead.

I feel like anything but going straight for the neck is only going to help them waste our time.

[-] 1 points by Shule (2062) 1 year ago

Yeh, I believe you have a fair perspective on the situation. That is what I meant by "finding a lawyer serious enough to take on a case." but I also believe although the courts are "their" turf, the courts are a battleground on which one must fight, (albeit not the only one) as that is where changes can be realized. As a study of similar point consider environmental cases which go through the courts. Environmentalists fight for collective causes, and they are fighting against the same corruption. They loose a lot, but also win some.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

It would be pretty epic. I'd really like to see all of these things happen.

I also think that somehow a solution involves forgiving the people in bad positions. Although by definition a liar knows the truth, evil is really a form of blindness. Besides people would resist more if the guillotine was involved.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

They may not be doing anything illegal, but what you can do is challenge the validity/fairness of the law in court, poke holes in it, weaken it and, perhaps if it gets appealled high enough in the court system it can one day be overturned. I'd have to guess that you'd have a better chance of trying to get something changed that way than hoping/thinking the state legislatures and/or Congress would pass any laws favoring the little guy/gal. They are totally bought and paid for by the wealthy and do their bidding.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Let's say that hypothetically we had a huge movement of mass understanding. What do you think are the best political buttons to push for achiving the goal of a healthy government, one that can make decisions based on life?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

The most important thing that can be done right now to achieve "healthy government" is (1) repeal of Citizens United to eliminate unlimited campaign contributions, (2) term limits for all Congress (discussed for decades but will likely never be passed as they are not going to voluntarily eliminate their own jobs), and (3) eliminate Corporate Personhood law and the influence of corporations and Big Business to buy/bribe government to pass laws that favor them. What needs to be done has been known for decades now, but Big Money always stands in the way like a massive wall preventing the "inoculations" of sanity from getting injected into the diseased government (to use your analogy).

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Isn't that exactly what bensdad's group is trying to do? With enough support can't we force it to happen? I don't totally understand our political system, and to be honest i really don't want to. It's just that the idea of taking big money to court seems like the most impossible thing right now, even if that had enough support.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

Watch this short video. This is really the core of the threat to our democracy. Kudos to bensdad and the Move to Amend effort that is underway. We will just have to watch and hope that We The People emerge victorious. It is a truly massive undertaking, but one of the most important ones in our history, as Big Business is now in a position to threaten our very survival, all to benefit the (R)ich owners of those businesses.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Interesting point in the Video, UD. Of course, we know corp strategic Planning is all about Profit (And I keep saying we need Ethics inserted) ... and we know corps serve the profit motive for investors ...Seems a new perspective to say the Law Requires Corps seek highest profits.

Anyway Corporations are bigger than Countries. Corporations Spending Millions on elections & Writing off the Expense/or not writing off the Expense is a Scale of Corruption that is almost unlimited in every possible way. It's like a James Bond Movie.

Good Video Post.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

I remember now almost watching this video before. I didn't because of the name. There's just too much information running around and we resort to the titles that grab us. I had no idea that the story of stuff would even be about political corruption. It was our conversation that made me watch it, but there are a lot of people out there not having this conversation.

I guess what i'm getting at is how important it is that we boil something down for the mass to get a firm grip on, and then connect our resources to all point at it. Create a web of unification so people everywhere can notice. Occupy could make this thing happen, so why not?

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

That is what Chomsky talks about regarding the media and it's obsession with concision. This has programmed the populace with a similar obsession with a lack of attention to any detail that may be required to gain a correct or meaningful understanding with any given topic in today's "information overload" society. Very, very dangerous, as it leads to minds with little toleration of anything other than oversimplification.

This is all detailed in the documentary "Manufacturing Consent".

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

This video was pretty interesting, along similar lines: http://youtu.be/Xbp6umQT58A

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

Yes, I had seen that vid a long time ago but had forgotten it. Thanks for providing it. That vid actually makes me wonder how much longer the State will continue to allow a free and unregulated Internet where videos like that and others hold the potential for waking us "cattle" up to the reality of our enslavement. Must be that our "farmers" are so confident of their ability to continue to completely control their "livestock" that they do not even care if we become aware of the true situation or not. Self-aware cattle. Interesting concept.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

We're out of room here but thanks for that reply. It makes sense, everything is thick with complexity. I hear people in agreement that we need to unite in order to force the things that have become understood, because a liar by definition knows the truth, and that's what we're up against, a lie. By serious i mean to actually brainstorm about how to make it happen. Are you saying that people have done this already and given up?

I don't think it's a difficult problem. For the mass to understand something is has to be simple, and for something to catch on it needs to be consistent. If the occupy movement could spread and maintain focus upon one thing, it would actually reach all people. We have the bullet, and the gun. I think we just need to put the two together, and use it.

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

People have discussed many, many things here yes, but people have not given up. The problem is moving the conversation/awareness outside the limited confines of this forum. All the possible actions that need to be taken have been discussed here for quite sometime, imho. But at some point you have to move beyond talk and into action. But what more is this forum than talk? It is great ideas, wonderful ideas in fact. But ultimately it is limited to the realm of discussion.

If you want to clean up a garbage heap, you can talk until doomsday about how to do it and it still won't get cleaned up. Ultimately, you have to roll up your sleeves, get dirty, and physically do it.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

If you tell me why, of all places, i cannot get people on the occupy forum to talk seriously about uniting people, then maybe we could also answer that question.

Could it be that the forum really is so overpopulated with something fake? I've met secret society agents in real life. They're in every city and every town. They're perfectly normal people living entirely normal lives. You'd never know they were activated with a mission unless they wanted you to know.

You never know, but yeah, they're confident.

Oh wait maybe not, check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzNQarkk95Q

[-] 1 points by Underdog (2971) from Clermont, FL 1 year ago

I hear your passion, and it is a good thing. What do you mean, exactly, when you say talk seriously? There has been serious discussion on this forum and suggestions for rallying people for quite some time now. I think part of the problem, as I have said all along, is lack of central leadership. Others say that lack of leadership is Occupy's chief strength, although personally I cannot understand that. But the main problem is no effective way to reach the masses. The mass media requires a lot of money to use it. Occupy doesn't have a lot of money. Also, I think you are up against a very beat-down and demoralized population at this point. There are signs that some people are coming to life here and there with recent protests and such, but the vast majority are either (1) happy with the way things are, (2) are apathetic/uninterested/distracted about making changes, or (3) permanently demoralized. These are the challenges that we face and that have been discussed here ad nauseum.

As far as the forum being populated with something fake...fake what? Most of the sincere long-time contributors here are not fake. But there are lots of trolls here that seek to demoralize and discourage the movement. That is a never-ending battle that the "old-timers" here could tell you about. There have been lots of things discussed here that run the gamut from genuine concern about infiltration to conspiracy theories. In the end, it all comes down to those that support Occupy and those that don't. And there are LOTS of people that don't support Occupy because of it's strong stance against the status quo. There are LOTS of lovers of the status quo, and it is always a uphill battle (and that hill is VERY steep).

And thanks for that video about the ITU. Very disturbing what they are trying to do.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

Wow, great video. http://www.storyofstuff.org looks pretty neat too. I have to hit the road for a little but i'll check it out more later. Cheers, dog.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, you have an idea here. Might need some twists since seems like the Lawyer is the one that normally makes money on Class Actions. Your Clearly Stated Goal is probably 1) Redress 2) Punitive 3) Create a Foundation or Insitute with funds received...

We know Medical Costs and Legal Costs are Prohibitive.

1) NGO Agency to provide housing & Offices for Lawyers that promise to serve the Public and the Constitution?
2) Foundation to educate Lawyers for promising to serve the public & Constitution?
3) Tuition forgiveness for GP Doctors and Lawyers who promise to serve the Public?

How can we institutionalize Social Programs that will help Doctors & Lawyers serve free from the corruption of high debt and high costs?

[-] 1 points by Renneye (4004) 1 year ago

Absolutely brilliant Ma!! I'm working on something in this area as well. I'll post when I get a chance.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Thanks, RE, I'm just an ideas guy ... well maybe a fantasy guy... But ideas have power they say. Someone said you can't stop an idea who's time has come. OWS has published a list of Grievences that we all pretty much hold as true.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Very good - the answer is - of course(?) - continue on as we are. The OWS/OCCUPY movements. The thing is not to necessarily get money - but to have a public judicial redress of issues - get laws enforced - criminals prosecuted - stop pollution etc etc address societies needs that have not been followed through on by the current government - force issues. All in an ongoing program of regaining our government and treating the ills of our society. Public actions that eventually can be continued as a matter of course as they should be right now - because it is the law - WHO'S LAW ??? - The Peoples Law and no one is above it or stands outside of it.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Well said. There is so much happening behind the scenes. I'm not up on anything. But OWS is strong ...and the last assault on workers in Michigan ...probably strengthens OWS & Unions. The jobs may never come back to the US, but OWS is not just about Jobs.

As you say there are many respectable goals that OWS is working on... and as you say OWS is a dynamic community of people with ideas, energy, and resources.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Hey - we may not even want some of those jobs to come back - just properly tax/tariff goods from the off-shoring as they are brought for sale in our domestic economy. New green business can be started - we need a massive upgrade to our power infrastructure - we need to address the threats upcoming in our ever changing climate. Move off of low lying areas. Relocate off of the coastline in low lying storm and sea level threatened areas. Public works to reduce storm surge etc etc etc so many things that need to be done.

[-] 1 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (641) 1 year ago

Class Action lawsuits are not necessarily the answer. What matters more is setting precedents. Class Action attorneys will sometimes settle for way below what the case is worth simply to avoid a trial and also because they get 25 percent of the judgement plus court expenses, ouch!

And there is the risk they could have one juror hold out and they lose the case entirely.

Precendents however can be used by sharp attorneys all over the land to help their own clients actually win a case rather than get involved in a mass compromise.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Law suit in general - does not have to be class action. Laws are on the books that are not being enforced.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

-2 Must have hit a nerve.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

I saw the deadpeasant thing on some Michael Moore docu i think. Lawsuit sounds like a worthy effort. Any lawyers weigh in?

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Don't know - I have thrown this out for consideration - to see what people might think about the idea - as well as get perhaps some brain storming going on. It would be great to see popular support for the idea take off - this is also a post that I have tweeted for wider consideration.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 1 year ago

That's how things get started. Even if it is a slow start. Someone who can pursue it may see it and act. Well done.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

About time to re-tweet it.

And no sooner said - then done =

What do you think of a rolling jubilee type action to launch & support lawsuits for the PEOPLE. http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-do-you-think-of-a-rolling-jubilee-type-action/#.UQBn_59AbI4.twitter … FOOD4THOUGHT pls Share

[-] 1 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (641) 1 year ago

I made a comment on Mark Cuban's blog about how the practice of dentistry may be changing soon if cavity killing drugs or cavity killing pills that apparently work are released in the near future.

I simply suggested that dentists with student loan debt at the very least have their interest rate charges, penalties and fees waived if their industry is rocked by a low cost method to fight cavities and tooth decay.

So far 11 minuses and not one plus. If I had suggested a "jubilee", perhaps it's minus 20 instead.

[-] 1 points by ericweiss (575) 1 year ago

An interesting idea - I'm not a lawyer, but I think our corporate structure is stacked against us on this class action road. Hopefull there are some lawyers here who can shed some light on this.
Ultimately, the corporations who commit these crimes such as the banksters, BP & Massey Energy are really actions decided by greedy, evil people.that are shielded by the "corporate veil"

[-] 1 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (641) 1 year ago

I think the key is to fight on a local level. Convince a superior court judge that some long held to practices are just plain unethical and in need of revocation or precedent setting change.

I can think of several precedent changing actions that would put main street on a much more level playing field with the corporations and with wall street.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is a thought a consideration to examine and share - some one may have a eureka moment.

[-] 1 points by thomasgokey (7) 1 year ago

NEDAP is doing exactly this. To see the latest on their class action lawsuit against debt buyers go here: http://app.e2ma.net/app2/campaigns/archived/1407988/84745d8cb16b737afd5e45538d912ca2/

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4789) 1 year ago

We must use any effective tool available to us, to defend against injustice by corporation/government. Get attention and spread awareness, about all the bad things going on.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Even if many suits go nowhere ( some might prevail ) they ( can ) will get public awareness. Raise attention - get people involved. Every open and peaceful avenue to do so is a good avenue to take.

[-] 1 points by Renneye (4004) 1 year ago

This thread is very exciting to me.

Solidarity...yes. Unite and Protest...yes. These are wonderful things and have granted OWS recognition. These things are a way to bring attention to unethical corporations and governments, voice opinion, show discontent, and psychologically unite. These are all incredibly important, and by all means...need to be continued. I don't want to undermine in any way the relevance and importance of these actions...especially when we consider the exceptionally brave people in the 'front lines' of the protests around the world...many of whom suffered horrible brutality and detainment.

To the oligarchs...these actions are varying degrees of 'irritating'. But they can deal with it...and many times, continue on their destructive path.

But we surely ought to be coming up with as many ways as possible to peacefully fight for our rights. To organize and hit the ruling elite from a legal standpoint would bring this revolution to a new level. Uncharted territory. A level that would send them into a tailspin. They would be 'forced' into becoming directly engaged in the proceedings.

They have probably been out of their minds with worry, wondering if we will come to the realization that the legal system is something we can utilize.

I say...lets hit them from all sides. We are a force to be reckoned with! In the streets, in our communities, in the financial arena (proven with the rolling jubilee), and now - in the courtroom.

Corporations are people, they say. Well they are wrong about that. But corporations are owned by people...and for those people, OWS coming after them in a class action law suit will be a nightmare.

I think that just knowing that we're talking in these terms, and they do know...they're getting antsy.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Agree - apply the pressure - all the pressure we can - and making a legal play against them would be so sweet.

[-] 1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

http://www.web-access.net/~aclark/basic.htm

Basic structure of a Class Action Lawsuit.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

Although I have been working on an anti-CU amendment there is a "new" very hot issue that may be ripe for a class action lawsuit.
With 24 states now totally controlled by Rs, there will be a MASSIVE effort to add more voter suppression laws. I know there is a federal law against inhibiting anyone's constitutionally guranteed rights

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yes - another vital issue to be undertaken by law of the people for the people - BY THE PEOPLE.

We must take advantage of every avenue that is open to Us - The People.

[-] 1 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (641) 1 year ago

I have been attempting to "negotiate" a small percentage sub fund from attorneys fees that would go to telling the story of what happened to the victims in a class action lawsuit.

Unfortunately, it appears at this point that the attorneys get so involved in the legal battles within the courtroom that actually documenting what happened to the alleged victims becomes moot.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

There should be a judicial database divided and collated by category and sub categories. There are law case books - but an accessible database would be so much better. This should be a priority of the judicial system.

[-] -1 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (641) 1 year ago

As a general rule, Class Action Lawsuits benefit the attorneys far more than the class.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Don't care - if it makes good and meaningful change for society going forward.

[-] -1 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (641) 1 year ago

I don't think it does.

[+] -9 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I suppose that would depend on the case and the reasoning for it.

A case is not good in and of itself - it is good for it's purpose - or evil for the same reason.

[-] 0 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (641) 1 year ago

If a corporation does a billion dollars worth of damage, but only 200 million of it is based on actual money changing hands, and the settlement is for 99 million dollars, was that a victory for main street?

Or, did the corporation still walk away with a 100 million dollars they do not deserve, and the attorneys will get around 15 to 30% of the total, plus attorneys fees.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is only a victory for main street if there is no repeat because of the ruling. Any repeat after a ruling should be harsher - the initial ruling of wrong doing should be painful to bear - but repeats - copy cats - should be more so. CorpoRATions are not dumb entities - they are not people - but they are run by people - educated people. They should not be treated as people - they should not be treated as handicapped people - They should be treated as what they are - a business - and either operating inside of or outside of the law - and so those individuals who comprise the chain of command should be held fully responsible for improper actions - and so be subject to penalty along with the business - and the penalty should meet needed reparations.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1866) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_relief

If you research it, the Athenians had a whole lot figured out that we have trouble with today. One study shows that we (today) would be considered idiots IDIOTS in their society. I agree!

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yep - high tech idiots - for failure at proper social growth and operation.

[-] 0 points by WSmith (1866) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Cognitive reasoning, social consideration, maybe just plain perception are my concerns. Jubilee, of course!!

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Reasoning and social consideration - world and personal perception/view - have grown in this last year by bypassing the MSM - this must continue and eventually it will be main stream.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (1866) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I hope so. Don't see it. I see undeniable evil on the Right, not the perception of a better way on the left.

Meanwhile, please visit a friend: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-are-warm-blooded-we-are-legion-truth-reason-fro/

[-] -1 points by freewriterguy (882) 1 year ago

nearly every day I can think of class action lawsuits. Yesterdays idea was to sue mystart search engine it took me 2 hours to get rid of its infestation of my computer. Why do people think that we want our computers and hand held smart phones full of their crap? We should make it the law that we have total control, and by that I dont mean that we agree to let them do whatever they want on our computer just because we downloaded and installed their program. There is no integrity left in America over and over again, I see it lacking.

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

http://people.howstuffworks.com/lawsuit.htm

"Civil vs. Criminal

First, let's start off by establishing that there is a difference in a civil trial and criminal trial. When you sue someone and take him to court, it is usually based on a tort. When someone breaks a criminal law, then the public prosecutor takes him to court for a criminal trial.

Torts are different from criminal laws in that a person may not have broken a law, but may have acted negligently (either intentionally or not) and as a result, someone else was injured physically, emotionally, and/or monetarily. Torts provide grounds for the lawsuit. Specific torts include trespassing, assault, battery, negligence, product liability, and intentional infliction of emotional distress. There are also three general categories that torts fall into: intentional torts (e.g., intentionally hitting someone), negligent torts (e.g., causing an accident because you didn't follow traffic rules), and strict liability torts (e.g., being responsible for damages caused by a product you manufacture and sell).

The original purpose of tort law was to compensate victims for their losses and also to help prevent future losses by punishing the defendant (the person being sued). For these reasons, there are compensatory damages, which require the defendant to pay back money the plaintiff (the one who filed the lawsuit) lost as a result of the defendant's negligence, as well as money to make up for pain and suffering. There are also punitive damages. Punitive damages are what the defendant has to pay as his punishment for being grossly negligent, malicious, reckless, or acting intentionally -- not just for making a mistake or not being careful. In an effort to get a handle on rising punitive damages, a decision was issued in July 2003 by the U.S. Supreme Court that limits the amount someone can recover in punitive damages."

[+] -9 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

OH - Geeze - go away contentious/contrary wonder.

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

Fine-plan away without any regard for reality! I really don't care. But if you keep wasting people's time and energy and money on stuff that "might work" but probably won't, good luck keeping any interest in OWS going for long.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You really should change your name to Negative Nellie. You never have anything good to say - you just like to attack and belittle and put down and be negative and overall it seems - against people.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

destroying is much easier than building
it also requires less intelligence

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Why is it so easy for people to be negative? Positive is so much more fun!!!

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

You ASKED "can we" over and over and over. I answered with the facts. I didn't attack, belittle, or put anyone or anything down.

Some people consider knowing the facts "good". Some people don't have a lot of time to get involved in the first place, and think it's GOOD to find out what they are up against before they dive in.

And some people think that everything they say should be welcomed and celebrated as if it is pure truth raining down from the skies on parched earth. Such people are going to have a rough time changing the world while working with people from the first group.

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Your group? contentious/contrary

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

OWS is built on contention! Agitating. Protesting. Being contrary to the status quo. So I find it hilarious and ironic that you cannot STAND anyone doing to you what OWS organizes to do to others!

If I annoy you, imagine how annoying a large group of protesting, negative nellies protesting and agitating is to everyone else. Are you even capable of that kind of introspection?

[+] -8 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thing is you are protesting against people and a movement that is trying to make a better world for all people - so - what does that make You? Besides a loser.

[-] 0 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

It looks like BetsyRoss was trying to help flesh out your idea, and then you turned it into a slapping contest. Just because they have negative points doesn't mean they don't know anything, and besides that, without negative points you'll never whittle down something good.

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

Thank you.

[-] 1 points by bullfrogma (448) 1 year ago

I don't understand how posting information on civil lawsuits on a thread where it blongs was even considered negative. I understand what DKA is trying to say about smacking people with disapproval, and how that can create an aversion, but if there is ever an idea of the badness in something it's just as important as the goodness. It's a good thing to set sail in a ship that isn't leaking.

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

Most people, and I hope you agree, would say that honesty and openness are the most basic principles that are REQUIRED to make anything truly better-especially the world. IF I believe that a specific idea or action won't truly help EVERYONE, then I am obligated to honestly and openly say so-if I truly want to make the world a better place. RIGHT?

After all, I believe that someone who truly WANTS to make the world a better place for all people should know and understand how the world operates currently, and how changing any specific part, or parts, of how it operates CAN and WILL affect every other part of it before they go making suggestions about changing one thing or another.

I also believe that someone who truly wants to make the world a better place for ALL people would be diligent about weighing all of the pros and all of the cons of any changes made to be sure that the result will actually benefit "all people" rather than just hurting some people while helping others or hurting people who weren't hurt before in order to help people who were hurting before to not hurt anymore.

So, despite what you think or say, what I'm really protesting against is people who are either clearly biased, or uninformed, or misinformed, or outright liars making statements that are clearly biased, or uninformed, or misinformed, or outright lies under the pretense that all they are trying to do is make the world a better place for all people.

I simply don't believe that any of those things CAN make the world better for all people.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It would be helpful to you - if instead of pointing out negatives - that instead you point out positives - angles of approach likely to succeed in compliment to a proposed action.

Then perhaps you would not be automatically viewed as a millstone tied around the neck prior to a plunge into the river.

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

I think you mean it would be helpful to YOU, or perhaps conversing with you, if instead of speaking and acting in a way that you view as negative-that I instead point out positives-angles of approach likely to succeed in compliment to a proposed action.

What might be helpful to ME is for you to comprehend that if I can't see ANY angles of approach likely to succeed in a proposed action, it would be dishonest to expect me to compliment that action at all.

The perception that something is or is not a 'millstone' tied around the neck prior to a plunge into the river is entirely subjective.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

No - I think you being an individual who throws up road blocks instead of offering insight to avoid roadblocks -is not only your "own" worst enemy - but an enemy of healthy growth for everyone else who encounters you.

[-] 1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

I'm SHOWING you the road blocks that already exist without any help from me, I didn't PUT them there-so you can CHOOSE to change or adapt your plans in order to move around, under, over, or through such roadblocks NOW. But you seem to have a problem with someone pointing out the cliff, or the oncoming train, or the fireball UNLESS they also offer some kind of solution to it.

Weird. I guess you prefer to just find out about them later after you've got everything in motion and on the road. Good luck with that.

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

You just do not know how to use your knowledge in a positive fashion? Is all you can be is negative? Then so be it. But do not wonder why you are not sought for company or input.

[-] -1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

If you take knowledge to be negative then so be it. That's up to you. I'm not asking you to seek me out for company or input.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

If you can't see the negativity of your interactions? - I am sorry - For You.


[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-442) 7 minutes ago

If you take knowledge to be negative then so be it. That's up to you. I'm not asking you to seek me out for company or input. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sue to end corpoRAT personhood?

Sue to End/Ban Fracking?

Sue for One Subject at a time Legislation?

What can we accomplish through the courts - in concert/compliment with continuing protest????

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

We cannot sue to end CP or CU - a suit cannot override SCOTUS

[-] 1 points by grapes (3309) 1 year ago

Legally, we cannot do these and that is correct. However, we came from a long tradition of countries which chopped off the heads of their Kings, viz. England and France. The people always had the ultimate power, whether they realize it or not. We do not even need to storm the proverbial "Bastille" because we, started with the "pirate"-English stock, do look awfully like the pirate climbing up the mast already.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sue illegal foreclosures? Breach of contract?

???????????????????????????????????????????????

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sue false advertising? Fossil Fuel - False advertising - no such thing as clean coal - fracking is not healthy for the environment/society. Among others.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

I'm not sure how far you can get with a false advertising suit as long as corporations have free speech

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Free speech = False speech ???

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

yes - I know - if corps did not have free speech rights, we could pass laws requiring some degree of honesty

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

I do not believe that false advertising laws were ever removed from the books. Yes they exist - were put in place in the way back to protect consumers.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

honestly, I don't know where the line is
if a car company claims 90 miles per gallon?
if a skin cream claims it will makes you look 20 years younger?
if BP said its oil rgis are safe?
all of the corp lies about the safety of the pipelines?

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

A lie is a lie is a lie. It is not to be accepted.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sue to stop fossil fuel pipelines?

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sue to implement green power fuel tech/industry/infra-structure?

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sue to remove corpoRAT criminals from the government/administration?

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Sue to get charges and prosecution happening on the economic ( wallstreet ) criminals?

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Can we sue to house the Homeless?

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Can we sue for Universal Health Care?

[+] -6 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

This is a really good idea, DKA.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Thx - let the people lead the way in no uncertain terms. That will be a declaration of our ( The Peoples ) mandate.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Well - now that there is a conversation happening - Tweeted - I hope many more will pick-up on the conversation - and mull over possibilities.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I like the idea of class action lawsuits. I think it is not possible to sue govt officials but I hacve a resource who works in this area of the law and will ask.

Certainly class actions against

  • fossil fuel corps,

  • Wall st banksters,

  • Big box retailers exploiting decent hard working American families.

  • Fast food corps doing the same.

  • Any corp outsourcing American jobs

  • Big Agri/Chem corps for misusing our land, poisoning our food. pushing out small farmers.

  • Health insurance industry, for unjustly denying valid claims, excessive, unjustified premium increases for 30 years.

  • Any corps polluting the environment.

Is that the kind of actions you are thinking?

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Actions that address the ending of fossil fuel pollution - because the fossil fuel use is poisonous in extraction and in it's use - and those extracting it are not doing so in a responsible ( CLEAN ) fashion. Call the EPA as a conjoined(?) respondent ( failure in mandate to protect the environment ), call the FCC as a respondent ( for failure to pull fossil fuel lies off of the media and for not fining the liars = failure of fulfilling Mandate ).

Go after the wallstreet criminal corpoRATIONS for fraud conspiracy collusion etc etc and call The SEC and Department of Justice as co-respondents etc etc etc for failure to preform their assigned mandates in protecting the economy/country from criminal operations in the fact of failure to charge and prosecute criminals and failure to seek restitution for the public.

Things like that - yeah - individual and combined suits - initiated under proper legal method/causation.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yes, i think you could sue to force the government agency to staff and budget properly, so that it can enforce regulations. William K. Black seems to say that DOJ or the Whitehouse has not staffed FBI Investigators in Financial Crimes to prosecute for 2007-8 Financial Criisis. But if you don't sue the right office you have to start the proccess all over.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

There in lies the rub - you need proper representation - for a governmental action or a civil action. But there are things that could be addressed called out in this fashion.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

As I said. I will be discussing with a lawyer who works at a firm who does only class actions and run some of this by him for his opinion/advise.

Great ideas. Hope something is workable.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It would be awesome if we could get good people in the legal community brainstorming actions to be taken - communicating with each other - working in concert - and put it all out to the public to support.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

And he is great progressive. He sits on the board of the NyCLU, & his father-in-law represented the occupiers who were entrapped on the Bklyn Brdge.

We'll see. I think tomorrow we will be hangin'. Between now & then I will be forming specific questions, so you can send me anything specific you are most interested in.

I will obviously see if their is any way to sue the govt! But I suspect corps are the best targets.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

See what he thinks about organizing behind a public action group ( OWS , Occupy, other - or getting individuals/people organized with various charity and social and environmental groups ) funded by a telethon as well as existing group resources.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Ok. I think I will also look up existing class actions against corps/govt. Have you researched that at all.?

I don't know so much about & I wanna avoid sounding ign'ant. Not that he would mind, he's a good guy.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

It is not an area of strength for me - it just seems to make sense that the public needs to use every peaceful/legal means at it's disposal to get this country on a sane and positive footing. The use of Law to confront the ills of society seems like a natural.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Agreed. Much has been accomplished in the courts over the decades. It is worth a try.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And I think it is long past time to invite the public to get involved and to work together in this manner.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Of course. We are the public! We are & they are the 99%.

The public is involved, We are simply inviting the public to get more involved. It is in fact another avenue to grow this great movement.

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

This whole legal thing could get off to a good start with one KEY issue for the public to get involved supporting - we need a GR8 Kick-off Issue - And I Believe that that is the environment - storms pollution etc

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Yes much opportunity. And much possibility for positive progress.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

That is the tack I would take in discussion - all encompassing change for the better by addressing all issues concerning the environment.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I agree. The environmental issue allows for an effort aginst polluting, water, food (land) air we breath. And can be against any number of inustries not just fossil fuel energy generation.

I think it provides the most opportunity.

[+] -6 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

And pushes the immediate necessity of implementing all of the green technology into daily life that we can = jobs - clean industry - transportation - energy - safe affordable housing - Increase in overall health....... recycling conservation .....................

[+] -7 points by DKAtoday (25072) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Take the government to court for not upholding the constitution?

[+] -7 points by beautifulworld (21572) 1 year ago

Turning ideas into action. Excellent.