Forum Post: "U.S. Policy to Israel, Palestine Must Change" - Dr.Jill Stein, Green Party Presidential Candidate.
Posted 8 months ago on Sept. 21, 2012, 8:47 a.m. EST by shadz66
(12745)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
"U.S. Policy to Israel, Palestine Must Change",
"The United States remains complicit in the ongoing systematic violation of human rights by the Israeli government."
by Jill Stein, Green Party Presidential Candidate.
United States policy regarding Israel and Palestine must be revised to make international law, peace and human rights for all people, no matter their religion or nationality, the central priorities. While the U.S. government sometimes voices support for this principle in name, in practice U.S policy towards Palestine and Israel has violated this principle more often than not.
In particular, the United States has encouraged the worst tendencies of the Israeli government as it pursues policies of occupation, apartheid, assassination, illegal settlements, blockades, building of nuclear bombs, indefinite detention, collective punishment, and defiance of international law.
Instead of allying with the courageous proponents of peace within Israel and Palestine, our government has rewarded consistent abusers of human rights. There is no peace or justice or democracy at the end of such a path. We must reset U.S. policy regarding Israel and Palestine, as part of a broader revision of U.S. policy towards the Middle East.
On taking office, I will put all parties on notice – including the Israeli government, the Palestinian Authority, and the Hamas administration in Gaza – that future U.S. support will depend on respect for human rights and compliance with international law. All three administrations will also be held responsible for preventing attacks by non-state actors on civilians or military personnel of any nationality. The parties will be given 60 days to each demonstrate unilateral material progress towards these ends.
Material progress will be understood to include but not be limited to an end to the discriminatory apartheid policies within the state of Israel, the removal of the Separation Wall, a ban on assassination, movement toward denuclearization, the release of all political prisoners and journalists from Israeli and Palestinian prisons, disarmament of non-state militias, and recognition of the right of self-determination for both Israelis and Palestinians.
Failure by any party to demonstrate sufficient material progress will result in the end of U.S. military and economic aid to that party. Should the end of U.S. aid fail to cause a party to redirect its policies and to take steps resulting in sufficient material progress within an additional 60 days, I will direct my State Department to initiate diplomacy intended to isolate and pressure the offending party, including the use of economic sanctions and targeted boycott. In this way, U.S. policy will begin to become consistent with its practices regarding other violators of human rights and international law in the region.
Consistency in U.S. policy regarding human rights and international law will begin, but not end, with Palestine and Israel. I will apply this same approach to other nations, such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Yemen, among others. I will also ensure that the United States begins to honor its obligations to protect human rights, and will expect that the world community will hold us to the same account we hold others.
Finally, as President I will put the full weight of the United States behind the establishment of a Palestine and Israel Truth and Reconciliation Commission as the vehicle for shifting from an era of human rights violations to one based on trust and bringing all parties together to seek solutions. Any stakeholder who enters into this process must pledge to work for a solution that respects the rights of all involved. This will bring America’s Middle East policy into alignment with American values. I understand that in the end, a dedicated commitment to justice will further American interests in the region much better than the current policies of supporting abuses and violence by one side against the other. And I believe that this is in the best interests of all people living in Israel and Palestine.
~
fiat justitia ruat caelum ...
~
[Statement copied verbatim under "Fair Use" from : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32495.htm ]
Palestine recognized by the UN. Some good news today.
Palestinian UN recognition vote passed 138-9:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/29/palestinian-un-recognition-vote-passes_n_2213980.html
Watching the reaction to this on USUK MSM is very revealing indeed. This is a no-brainer we may think but alas it's a 'no-hearter' to some (c.f. the '9')
fiat lux ...
Good way to put it, but I'd prefer to be on "the right side of history" and with my heart fully intact. Thank you very much.
If only your sentiments were universal & thus, with Gaza in mind - I append an important doc. :
veritas vos liberabit ...
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Very Nice!!! Thanks.
As per usual, you are very welcome & in a rush that I am right now, nevertheless, I append :
An interesting read from the ever insightful Glenn Greenwald, for your later perusal if not comment. Thanx for all your heart-centred perspectives and all your good work here.
pax, amor et lux ...
Wow. Great little article. As universal human rights apply universally, to all people, so should international standards regarding nuclear weapons, apply to all countries. Nothing difficult to comprehend there. Nothing unfair there.
Fairness, justice and compassion are not hard to comprehend and apply for any one who can connect their head and heart together. On the subject matter in hand, may I append for your later attention and strongly recommend :
Further, this short article was titled "A message to Israel", in Tuesday's printed edition of The Guardian but the web-site has a somewhat more anodyne headline.
Finally re. the authors, Mary Robinson is a former president of Ireland and was UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and Martti Ahtisaari is a former President of Finland and Nobel Peace Prize winner.
fiat pax ...
"Contrary to widespread perceptions of stalemate, the situation on the ground is far from static: more than 40% of the West Bank has already been taken for settlements, roads and military use, as have the majority of water and other natural resources. This is a moment for the EU to show greater leadership. As Israel's largest trading partner, the EU could start by differentiating between Israeli goods and those produced in illegal Israeli settlements." Seems like a good idea. Fairness and justice work both ways.
Indeed, 'fairness and justice, arguably Only Work when there is reciprocity. Thus I append an old article, which tho' somewhat superseded by events, nevertheless gives a real perspective into current events and into the misconceptions behind present realities on the ground.
fiat justitia ...
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the equality of men & women?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of amputations as punishment?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of honor killing?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of stoning as punishment?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the right of women to go to school?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of killing people who burn booksl?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of fatwas?
Amnesty International's report on the Israeli Occupation of Palestine:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israel-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-2012
I recommend this excellent and important link to all readers, to which alas - bensdad & his ranting sock puppet will be utterly impervious, lol. Thanks very much tho' bw, for posting this though for the rest of us.
From the link : "Prisoners of conscience – Israeli conscientious objectors : At least three Israeli conscientious objectors were imprisoned during 2011 for refusing military service because they opposed Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territories."
fiat lux ...
Very interesting. There are many good people, everywhere, who care about others whether they are part of that group or not.
You mean all of the things that the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas believe should be the laws that all are governed by? Egypt is in such GREAT hands since the revolution aren't they?
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf18.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krvCQbzPKiI&feature=endscreen&NR=1
watch the debate
Israel's self righteous and defiant behavior is hastening its suicide. Bring it on!
http://www.alanhart.net/the-personification-of-self-righteousness/
I'm hoping they wise up and make peace and end the occupation.
Israel ended the Gaza occupation in 2005 and Iranian/Hamas rockets started.
Medea Benjamin On Gaza - http://www.nationofchange.org/israel-s-lesson-palestinians-build-more-rockets-1354804891 - Never Give Up Occupying Rhyme and Reason! Solidarity to the 99% everywhere!
Great post.
Thanx 'NVPHL' and also for consideration : NBC's 'Meet the Press' interview showcased how effectively the Israeli PM has made Iran the sole focus of US Middle East policy :
The interview above is analysed in : "Binyamin Netanyahu's Iran Strategy Erases the Palestinian Problem", by Chris McGreal :
"When the Israeli prime minister was last in Washington, there was barely a mention of the Palestinians after his meeting with Obama. And barely a word was breathed about the Palestinians at this year's meeting of the most influential of the pro-Israel lobby groups in Washington, American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac). The focus was firmly on Iran."
fiat lux ...
I love Jill Stein and I agree with your comment. Given the current situation in Gaza and searching for 'Palestine' here this morning, this post really stood out, so I hope others too will read and reflect upon the post, thread and links here. Peace.
Roseanne has a much better plan in regards to the Palestinians- give them lots of money. They don't look like they have much at all.
There is the South African paradigm of 'Truth and Reconciliation' and One Person ; One Vote ; One Democratic State for all between the sea and river, to possibly consider.
multum in parvo ...
Why the Mideast Exploded, Really
Sunday, 23 September 2012 09:20 By Ray McGovern, Consortium News | News Analysis
http://truth-out.org/news/item/11709-why-the-mideast-exploded-really
"Why Is the Arab world so easily offended?" asks the headline atop an article by Fouad Ajami, which the Washington Post published online last Friday to give perspective to the recent anti-American violence in Muslim capitals.
While the Post described Ajami simply as a "senior fellow" at Stanford's conservative Hoover Institution, Wikipedia gives a more instructive perspective on his checkered career and dubious credibility.
An outspoken supporter of the war on Iraq, Ajami was still calling it a "noble effort" well after it went south. He is a friend and colleague of one of the war's intellectual authors, neocon Paul Wolfowitz, and also advised Condoleezza Rice. It was apparently Wolfowitz or Rice who fed Ajami's analyses to then-Vice President Dick Cheney, who cited Ajami's views repeatedly in speeches.
The most telling example of this came in Cheney's VFW address on August 26, 2002, in which the Vice President laid down the terms of reference for the planned attack on Iraq. Attempting to assuage concerns about the upcoming invasion, Cheney cited Ajami's analysis: "As for the reaction of the Arab 'street,' the Middle East expert Professor Fouad Ajami predicts that after liberation, the streets in Basra and Baghdad are 'sure to erupt in joy in the same way the throngs in Kabul greeted the Americans.'"
In his writings, Ajami did warn, in a condescending way, that one could expect some "road rage ... of a thwarted Arab world – the congenital condition of a culture yet to take full responsibility for its self-inflicted wounds." He then added:
"There is no need to pay excessive deference to the political pieties and givens of the region. Indeed, this is one of those settings where a reforming foreign power's simpler guidelines offer a better way than the region's age-old prohibitions and defects."
No One Better?
Ignoring the albatross of tarnished credentials hanging around Ajami's neck, the Post apparently saw him as just the right academician to put perspective on the violence of last week in Middle East capitals. As for his record of credibility: Well, who takes the trouble to go to Wikipedia for information on pundits? Nor were the Post's editors going to take any chances that its newspaper readers might miss the benefit of Ajami's wisdom. So the Post gave pride of place to the same article in Sunday's Outlook section, as well. What the Post and other mainstream media want us to believe comes through clearly in the title given to the article's jump portion, which dominates page 5: "Why a YouTube trailer ignited Muslim rage."
Setting off the article were large, scary photos: on page one, a photo of men brandishing steel pipes to hack into the windows of the U.S. embassy in Yemen; the page-5 photo showed a masked protester, as he "ran from a burning vehicle near the U.S. embassy in Cairo." So – to recapitulate – the Post's favored editorial narrative of the Mideast turmoil is that hypersensitive, anti-American Muslims are doing irrational stuff like killing U.S. diplomats and torching our installations. This violence was the result of Arabs all too ready to take offense at a video trailer disrespectful of the Prophet. Nonetheless, it seems to be true that the trailer did have some immediate impact and will have more. According to an eyewitness, the 30 local guards who were supposed to protect the U.S. consulate in Benghazi simply ran away as the violent crowd approached on Tuesday night.
Wissam Buhmeid, the commander of the Tripoli government-sanctioned Libya's Shield Brigade, effectively a police force for Benghazi, maintained that it was anger over the video trailer which made the guards abandon their post.
"There were definitely people from the security forces who let the attack happen because they were themselves offended by the film; they would absolutely put their loyalty to the Prophet over the consulate. The deaths are all nothing compared to insulting the Prophet."
Predictably, Islamophobes and Muslim haters with influence over Western media coverage are citing the violence as the kind of "irrational" over-reaction that "exposes" Islam's intolerance and incompatibility with democratic values and demonstrates that Islam is on a collision course with the West.
It is no surprise that Ajami gives no attention to the many additional factual reasons explaining popular outrage against the U.S. and its representatives – reasons that go far deeper than a video trailer, offensive though it was. Ajami steers clear of the dismal effects of various U.S. policies over the years on people across the Muslim world – in countries like Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, Tunisia, Libya, Afghanistan. (The list stretches as far as distant Indonesia, the most populous Muslim state.)
Last week's violence not only reflects the deep anger at and distrust of the U.S. across the Islamic world, but also provides insight into the challenges posed by the power now enjoyed by the forces of extremism long held in check by the dictators toppled by last year's wave of revolutions.
Cui Bono?
Who are the main beneficiaries of misleading narratives like that of Ajami. He himself concedes, "It is never hard to assemble a crowd of young protesters in the teeming cities of the Muslim world. American embassies and consulates are magnets for the disgruntled."
So, does that mean the notorious video trailer is best regarded as a catalyst for the angry protests rather than the underlying cause? In other words, if the video served as the spark, who or what laid the kindling? Who profits from the narrative that neocons are trying so hard to embed in American minds?
Broad hints can be seen in the Washington Post's coverage over recent days – including a long piece by its Editorial Board, "Washington's role amid the Mideast struggle for power," published the same day Ajami's article appeared online.
What the two have in common is that the word "Israel" appears in neither piece. One wonders how and why the Post's editors could craft a long editorial on the "Mideast struggle for power" — and give editorial prominence to Ajami's article — without mentioning Israel. Presumably because the Post's readers aren't supposed to associate the fury on the Arab "street" with anger felt by the vast majority Arabs over what they see as U.S. favoritism toward Israel and neglect for the plight of the Palestinians. The Israeli elephant, with the antipathy and resentment its policies engender, simply cannot be allowed into the discussion.
In the circumstances of last week, Israel may be less a centerpiece than the ugly Islamophobia that has found a home in America. But these factors tend to build on and reinforce each other. And the indignities suffered at the hand of Israel certainly has resonance is the larger context of Muslims who feel their religion and culture are under attack in a variety of ways.
"Why Do They Hate Us?"
On Saturday, during a live interview on Al-Jazeera, I tried to inject some balance into the discussion. I noted that one key reason for the antipathy toward the U.S. among Muslims is the close identification of the U.S. with Israel and the widespread realization that support from Washington enables Israel's policies of oppression and warmongering against the Palestinians and its regional neighbors. [As an example of that Israeli brutality and American complicity, an op-ed in Monday's New York Times detailed how U.S. diplomats in 1982 acquiesced to Israeli actions in Lebanon that led to the massacre of defenseless Palestinian civilians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.]
As to "why they hate us," I had time to recall three very telling things I had mentioned in an earlier article on this sensitive topic.
1 — From the 9/11 Commission Report of July 2004, page 147, regarding the motivation of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: "By his own account, KSM's animus toward the United States stemmed not from his experience there as a student, but rather from his violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel."
2 — The mainstream-media-neglected report from the Pentagon-appointed Defense Science Board, a report that took direct issue with the notion that they hate us for our freedom. Amazingly, in their Sept. 23, 2004, report to Rumsfeld, the DSB directly contradicted what Vice President Dick Cheney and President George W. Bush had been saying about "why they hate us." Here's part of what the DSB said:
"Muslims do not 'hate our freedom,' but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf States. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy."
The New York Times ignored the Defense Science Board's startling explanation (as it has other references to the elephant plopped on the sofa). On Nov. 24, 2004, the erstwhile "newspaper of record" did publish a story on the board's report — but performed some highly interesting surgery.
Thom Shanker of the Times quoted the paragraph beginning with "Muslims do not 'hate our freedom'" (see above), but he or his editors deliberately cut out the following sentence about what Muslims do object to, i.e., U.S. "one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights" and support for tyrannical regimes. The Times then included the sentence immediately after the omitted one. In other words, it was not simply a matter of shortening the paragraph. Rather, the offending middle sentence was surgically removed.
Thanx 'LeoYo' for this very strong article, contribution & link here, which I used myself very recently on :
http://occupywallst.org/forum/paul-craig-roberts-the-neoconservative-war-crimina/ and also see ..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/18/violent-protests-blowback-us-intervention?INTCMP=SRCH .
fiat lux ...
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"A Marriage of Morons - Romney and Netanyahu", by Uri Avnery :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32516.htm or ...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/21/romney-and-netanyahu/ .
Meditations towards a One State solution, perhaps ?!
veritas vos liberabit ...
I like what she wrote. It makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for sharing it.
Further : "Memo to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon : The Door on a 'Two-state Solution' was Closed 45 Years Ago", by Alan Hart : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32584.htm ; For quite reflection if not exactly extensive discussion here or apparently anywhere, sigh.
respice ; adspice ; prospice ...
Interesting and sad, and like you say, important to reflect on.
For some further quite reflection, please also consider the annual 'Edward Said Memorial Lecture' at the University of Adelaide delivered by the inestimable Professor Ilan Pappe on :
Celebrated Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe whose landmark publication, "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine", documented the planned removal of 700,000 Palestinians from their lands in 1948, has written a new book "The Forgotten Palestinians".
In the book and at this September 16th community meeting at Sydney University, Pappe reveals the situation for the Palestinians who still live within Israel's borders.
This was the first event of Professor Pappe's 2012 Australian lecture tour. It was hosted by the Sydney Peace Foundation at the University of Sydney with the Coalition for Justice and Peace in Palestine and Leichhardt Friends of Hebron. The lecture is on matters which seldom receive any airplay in The USA.
fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...
From Wikipedia: “Pappé was born in Haifa to German-Jewish parents who fled Nazi persecution in the 1930s. At the age of 18, he was drafted into the Israel Defense Forces, serving in the Golan Heights during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. He graduated from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 1978, and in 1984 obtained his PhD in history from the University of Oxford.”
For those with limited time, the most important part of this video kicks in at around the 18 minute mark. Thanks, Shadz for this great and informative post. Anyone sincerely interested in this matter should watch this video.
Thanx for the recommendation and extra info. & consider : "An Interview With Noam Chomsky", by Ricardo Lezama : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32581.htm - on these very matters.
pax via lux ...
I am amazed at how you keep track of all of your sources, Shadz. Great job and sincere thanks for all you do here.
Thanx for your grace and encouragement here, by which I am encouraged and emboldened to append : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12666.htm - in further connection to this subject matter.
fiat lux ...
Thanks again. :) Also, famous Marxist historian, Eric Hobsbawm, has died. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/arts/eric-hobsbawm-british-historian-dies-at-95.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0
Eric Hobsbawm [RIP] was a great man with a wide and deep understanding of history. He will be missed but will still be read in a hundred years, imo. Thanx for mentioning and remembering him.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19786929 ;
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/oct/01/eric-hobsbawm &
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-features/eric-hobsbawm-1917-2012-in-constant-struggle-with-his-jewish-identity.premium-1.467682 .
Requiescat In Pace.
youtube now allows links to include a time step
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCQx47kN6tI&t=1080
here t=1080 seconds or 18 minutes
nice
I want to see if it works;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fkdqCTcDkbc#t=36s
that also works
the code interpreter must allow both cases with/without "s" and after the #sign
cool
Please consider : "Apartheid never died in South Africa. It inspired a world order upheld by force and illusion", by John Pilger :
Thanx too for your constant grace under pressure in troubled times.
per aspera ad astra ...
She's got my vote
Consider : "President Jill Stein ?", by Carl Gibson :
"It's estimated that both President Obama and Mitt Romney will draw out anywhere between 45 and 60 million apiece in November, according to 2008 turnout numbers. But according to one USA Today poll, an estimated 90 million people who could vote this year probably won't, as they're disappointed in both candidates and major political parties. What if just two-thirds of those 90 million people turned out for a candidate with a truly bold vision, who isn't beholden to corporate donors or bought party elites ? It would be a colossal upset for the establishment, and a big win for citizens."
dum spiro, spero ...
The problem is, many ideological Americans don't support peace http://occupywallst.org/forum/nyc-subway-ads-call-for-defeat-of-jihad-savages/ .
Peace is probably antithetical to any Military-Industrial-Complex and War Machine, where The Military Expenditure is actually used to surreptitiously support huge areas of a de facto War Economy ~*~ In Israel/Palestine, for Peace to break out there must be opportunity to give voice to all who believe in it :
fiat pax ...
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Let's go a bit further and say that USA policy to the world needs to change. Export peace - export the ability to end strife over fossil fuel resources - the strife to have abundant electrical energy and abundant transportation - which makes a society able to address it's issues of providing clean water of harvesting fields of food crops of getting the food crops transported to every corner of those societies of getting Dr.s out to see to the population and gives the population a better access to their city centers of education and health care.
It is not just a matter of not supporting violence it is a matter of addressing the causes of violence. Politics and Religion are easier to discuss rationally when your people are not starving or dying of thirst or disease or lack of care facilities.
To "export peace" we must love, nurture and cherish Peace & decry WAR ; The US-MIC War Economy and the apologists for more war, who will always find it easy to say ...
"The government generally relies on marshalling patriotic emotion and reflexive loyalty rather than on making a sensible case for going to war. Much of the discussion that does take place is a sham because the government officials who pretend to listen to other opinions, as U.S. leaders did most recently during 2002 and early 2003, have already decided what they are going to do, no matter what other people may say. The rulers know that once the war starts, nearly everybody will fall into line and “support the troops”."
pax et lux ; hic et ubique ...
Thank you - you have just provided more emphasis to the fact that the people need to continue to band together to make change towards building a peaceful prosperous and healthy society that works towards doing the same for the rest of the world and for All peoples.
Thus "Come Together" and chant with a harmonious collective 'primal scream' :
shalom aleichem ; salam alaikum ; pax vobiscum ; om shaanti om ...
Nice.
And when we come together - we can learn how to fly far and high like - A Free Bird.
Free Bird ! Cool , ~i~ , pax ...
In a Big Country. Stay Alive. {:-])
Actually, that is a really special song for me. Thus with Israel/Palestine in mind, I append the following :
"Peace Train", Cat Stevens : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJk-mm0ldoQ and ..
"My Sweet Lord", George Harrison : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a48gIt84AZc .
As - PEACE is for us all and Paternalistic, Abrahamic, Monotheistic Mumbo-Jumbo has served us so poorly to date. Consider, 'Spiritual Supremacism' is but a tiny breath away from 'Racial Supremacism' !!
pax et lux ...
Wonderful post Shadz!! Thank you. Prepare for the reactionism...you anti-S----e you!! ^.~
Peace and solidarity to ALL of humanity!!
A quick picture that tells a portion of this story...
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=553
I really do not think that this 'forum-post' deserves any 'reactionary' responses at all but p'raps I ought to prepare for such reactions in the event that I'm accused with that rather unpleasant word that you allude to. I believe in 'The One Democratic State Solution' as a basis for a true, just and enduring peace for all and I will argue my point accordingly and utterly resist any 'coercive attempts' to stifle and deny debate.
fiat justitia ...
You're right of course...it doesn't deserve it. The thread has been up for a full day now, and from what I see...so far, so good! Perhaps I judged too soon!
The truth of the Israel/Palestine tragedy is known by few in the general public...and I give you credit for speaking to it in this very diplomatic thread.
Peace...to all.
Sometimes 'diplomacy' has its plus points especially if "Jaw Jaw" is to prevail over "War War" & thus :
fiat pax ...
Giggles!! I admit I had to look up Jaw Jaw over War War...and couldn't help but chuckle when picturing Churchill using the term.
I'm in full-on music mode these days...so thanks for the lovely song. Music speaks to everyone...and this one more than most. Who doesn't pause for thought when they hear it?!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/replenish-recharge-refuel/#comment-840458
Yes but I was trying to keep a veil over the 'Churchill' connection, lol ! Also 'fyi' :
An award winning documentary by James Miller { http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Miller_(filmmaker) } about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a 'must watch'. Finally, the thread that you link to is a veritable 'Juke Box' and is recommended to all readers and music lovers.
fiat lux ...
Thanks for the great link Shadz. It was heart-wrenching...but I watched it.
I think, that the majority of the global leaders...are stark raving mad.
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Fuck so called international law. Other than that I agree with much of what she says.
"International Law" - such as it is, is all we have for now. Also, please see :
I would especially draw your attention to 'The Footnote' at the end of the article.
e tenebris, lux ...
GAZA: part 1 of 2
In our recent elections, it would be very hard to come up with a more
significant reason for the republican losses than the fact that
the republicans told the truth about themselves.
Why can’t we also learn the truth from what the “Palestinian people”
say about the “Palestinian people” ?
On March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with
Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein.
”The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a “Palestinian state” is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese.
Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a “Palestinian people”, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.
“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a “Palestinian”, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.”
Truth does not change. Truth is truth.
If something was true 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, it is still true today.
And the truth is that only 30 years ago, there was very little confusion on this issue of Palestine.
You might remember the late Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir making virtually the same statement: “There is no such thing as a Palestinian people.” The statement has been a source of ridicule and derision by Arab propagandists ever since. They love to talk about Golda Meir’s “racism and bigotry and hate mongering.” They love to suggest she was in historical denial. They love to say her statement is patently false – an intentional lie, a strategic deception –
but is source from a PLO leader!
What they don’t like to talk about, however, are the very similar statements made by Yasser Arafat and his inner circle of political leadership years after Meir had told the truth –
that there is no distinct Palestinian cultural or national identity.
Pretty clear, isn’t it? It is even more specific than Golda Meir’s statement. And it is hardly the only such statement of its kind. Arafat himself made a very definitive and unequivocal statement along these lines as late as 1993.
It demonstrates conclusively that the Palestinian nationhood argument is the real strategic deception – one geared to set up the destruction of Israel.
On the same day Arafat ( who was born in CAIRO EGYPT ) signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, Arafat stated:
“Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of “Palestine”, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel.”
No matter how many people delude themselves that the aspirations for Palestinian statehood are genuine and the key to peace in the Middle East, they are still deceiving themselves. In the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as “Palestine” was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I.
The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland. In recent decades, parts have been “occupied” by Egypt and Israel. It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.
Why now has it become such a critical priority?
The answer is because of a massive deception campaign and relentless terrorism over 40 years.
Golda Meir was telling the truth. Her statement is validated by the truth of history and by the candid, but not widely circulated, pronouncements of Arafat and his lieutenants.
Israel and the West must not surrender to terrorism by granting the killers just what they want – a public relations triumph and a strategic victory. It’s not too late to say no to terrorism. It’s not too late to say no to another Arab terror state to launch attacks at the only Jewish state. It’s not too late to tell the truth about Palestine.
……………………………………………. by Joseph Farah
Are you afraid to believe Farah & Muhsein & Arafat ?
WATCH WITH YOUR OWN EYES
Are there any historical errors in these clips ? IN THESE CLIPS
PALESTINIAN PEOPLE 3.29 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_818090&feature=iv&src_vid=HRA0NKQ0k6E&v=9jOW9EzMiWc
PALESTINE & THE QURAN 8.29 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9CauJP4Pg
JEWS & MUSLIMS & NAZIS [ ANTI-SEMITISM = ANTI-ISRAEL ] 5.59 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gzyeo1Z1I4&NR=1&feature=endscreen
THE CARTOONS 4.20 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrq76I1M3CM&NR=1&feature=endscreen
CELEBRATING 9/11 6.02 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4&feature=endscreen&NR=1
A FEW OF THE CRIMES OF ISLAM – “THE RELIGION OF PEACE” ▬► we can’t stop this if we don’t acknowledge this & understand this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J_cqtdH26c&NR=1&feature=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2kFzGyKgpA&feature=endscreen&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQpj2bFM7s0&NR=1&feature=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgSH0h45Eo&NR=1&feature=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOIbgd5qcrg&NR=1&feature=endscreen
THE HISTORY OF THE MIDDLE EAST IN 11 MINUTES 11.37▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZY8m0cm1oY&feature=endscreen&NR=1
WHAT IS THE WEST BANK 6.17 ▬► http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq6tDmLNPjU&feature=endscreen&NR=1
THE PASLESTINIAN CONFLICT 4.20 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TI5Mwyhzhg
THE BITTER TRUTH 8.34 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MjUcIQjb1U
BEAT WOMEN 2.15 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHwATEWqslw&NR=1&feature=endscreen
ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE [ INTELLIGENCE SQUARED DEBATE ] at NYU: debate with two advocates on each side 1.46.36 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A
ISLAM: WHAT THE WEST NEEDS TO KNOW 1.38.40 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krvCQbzPKiI&feature=endscreen&NR=1
PAT CONDELL: ISLAMIC LAW & CRIME & RAPE & QURAN 6.11 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJoxVkGHzI0&feature=endscreen&NR=1
PAT CONDELL: ANTI-SEMITISM & HATE CRIMES IN EUROPE 6.10 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIesXORjBps&feature=endscreen&NR=1
PAT CONDELL: “PALESTINIAN” HISTORY & HATRED & PEACE?!?! 5.15 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1N1zhUm84w&NR=1&feature=endscreen
All Israelis are not good. All Israelis are not bad.
All Arabs are not good. All Arabs are not bad.
All Jews are not good. All Jews are not bad.
All Muslims are not good. All Muslims are not bad.
I do not hate Arabs or Palestinians – but we cannot hope to solve the middle east problem unless we understand what these people believe. And sadly, it will be as easy as ending the generations of anti-minority - homophobic - anti-woman beliefs so skillfully taught by parents and religions in the confederate states for generations.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear !!! Yes, you do "hate Arabs and Palestinians", bensdad !! Don't lie so badly and blatantly, as I asked you elsewhere - are the above and below, what's termed "hasbara" ?!
Hebrew: הַסְבָּרָה hasbará, "explaining" +
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_(Israel) &
http://www.hasbara.com/ .
Your last sentence plugs in totally and echoes very clearly the whole 'Clash Of Civilisation' narrative, as espoused by Samuel Huntington and so beloved of Neo-Cons, yet you make out that you're some kind of progressive whereas you behave and think like an illiberal, right-wing, nationalist for Israel. I'm gonna go to the bathroom now, come back, roll a wee medicinal exotic cigarette and then slap you straight in the mouth in reply to your somewhat unhinged comments above & below, so expect a "part 2 of 2" too.
ne quid nimis ?
GAZA: part 2 of 2
A few more clips that I believe show the truth.
I would be interested to see any evidence of factual errors in these clips.
Clips about the poor conditions in Gaza or military actions by Israel do not disprove Arafat’s statements or thousands of attacks on Israeli civilians by bus bombs or rockets. There MUST be at least one or two errors in the hundreds of historical facts posted here. Can you find them?
Harry Truman immediately approved the state of Israel –
did he hate Arabs because so many Arabs fought against the Allies - for Hitler?
I do not know.
Jimmy Carter & Bill Clinton pushed the PLO and the PA to sign a deal –
did they hate Arabs?
I do not hate Arabs or Palestinians – but we cannot hope to solve the middle east problem unless we understand what these people believe.
I believe that paying a parent to send their child to their deaths to kill people
[ as in Mumbai ] is nothing less than inhuman.
Not the bomber,
not the parents,
but the paymaster & the Imam.
Maybe you disagree?
IMAM CHOUDARY TELLS THE TRUTH – MUSLIM TERRORISM 4.00 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TqPK5oYZBk&feature=endscreen&NR=1
FROM 60 MINUTES – GAZA MOVIE FRAUD 18.00 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkfKAz8l37U&NR=1&feature=endscreen
SUBMISSION: THE MOVIE VAN GOUGH WAS _MURDERED FOR 10.31 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdvsFSYRgd4
CNN: GOD’S WARRIORS – THE MURDER OF THEO VAN GOUGH 5.10 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28opIDKwYk
ISLAM A RELIGION OF PEACE? A BRAVE MUSLIM & BILL MAHR 7.29 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ZEo7voCEM&feature=endscreen&NR=1
DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE “WEST BANK” IS? 6.17 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGYxLWUKwWo&NR=1&feature=fvwp
THE SON OF HAMAS LEADER TELLS THE TRUTH 5.00 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHbCGC6amdk&NR=1&feature=endscreen
ISRAEL IS AN “APARTHEID” STATE 7.24 ▬►
Most Arab states are not apartheid – they threw out the Jews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eupkfyd1ulc&NR=1&feature=endscreen
ROCKETS 21.16 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6nLrUg_bzs
ISRAEL GEOGRAPHY & HISTORY 6.29 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTDPRtprKJQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen
PAT CONDELL: SHARIA LAW & ISLAM IN BRITAIN 5.01 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dQVUiEjpw8&feature=endscreen&NR=1
PAT CONDELL: WHO HATES WHO? WHO MURDERS WHO? 6.05 ▬►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqSY285BqQg
The truth is the truth – not bigotry or hatred.
Some people do evil. For money. For power. For religion.
DO YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO LEARN THE TRUTH?
Pre 1948 - How did the nation of Israel get it's land?
"At the end of World War I, some of “Palestine's” land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80% of the resident Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.
Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73% of Jewish plots were purchases from large landowners, not poor Arabs."
-- quoted from The Peel Commission (1937)
"The Arab charge that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when purchased. There was at the time at least of earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land. Jews paid more than $20 million (at 1936 rates) to Arab landowners, mostly large estate holders. In 1944, Jews paid between $1000 and $1100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semi-arid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre
(U.S. Dept. of Agriculture)" --Land Ownership in Palestine, 1880-1948
According to British government statistics,
prior to the establishment of the State of Israel,
Further UN estimates put the value of property loses of Jews kicked out of Arab countries after 1948 at 10 times the value of those lost by Arabs.
Most Jews in Israel are from Arab countries, not from Europe.
So the issue of the injustice done TO the Jews of Arab countries BY Arabs is relevant,
as are reparations.
Not all Jews are white New Yorkers. 60% of Jews are not what you might call caucasian. All the way up until 1970 Israel had a policy of repayment or replacement for anyone who could prove his claim. Around 10% of the refugees used this policy, while others refused .
From 1920 to 1948 Jewish organizations accepted partition plans that gave the Jewish state as little as 20% of the current state of Israel. The Arabs refused the deal or any compromise.
From the 1850's to 1948, 90% of the land Jews lived on was purchased at very high prices from Arabs. The rest was uninhabited land and passed from the British government to the Israeli government, under international law. In 1948, any Arab that stayed in Israel became Israeli citizens with full rights to vote and form political parties. Most fled, anticipating that the Arab armies would quickly defeat Israel, and they could return home, without being thought of as traitors. Now whose fault is it for deserting? In 1948 at the creation of the State of Israel, Jews who lived in all of the Arab countries were forced out or harassed. The land lost by Jews who fled was estimated by the UN to be worth ten times that of any property lost by Arabs who fled Israel in 1948. When will the Jews be reimbursed? In 1948 Jordan expanded its borders and stole the West Bank from what was part of Israel before the 1948 war__, a piece that was NEVER inside the Jordan borders. In 1967, Israel took it back as a buffer from the combined half a dozen Arab armies that were poised to attack the lone Jewish state. It was expected that Arab states would make peace and Israel would return the land within a few months. The Arab states refused to negotiate with Israel. ……………………………………1994 by David Carasso.
▬►Why didn’t the PLO / PA accept any of the MANY two state solutions proposed by Israel & America and backed by many Arab leaders in the last few decades?
▬►If the Arab nations were interested in peace or simply aiding their brethren ,
they would support the West Bank as part of Jordan AND Gaza as part of Egypt
( as it was occupied by Egypt 1948-1967 ).
▬►And they would be using their oil billions to send food to Gaza in stead of guns & rockets.
▬►If the Gazan militants were really fighting for the Gazan people,
they would not launch their rockets from civilian neighborhoods.
▬►Yes - Gaza is occupied - by Hamas and their terrorist militants
Let Hamas and Abbas follow Arafat and to try to turn that down! Despite numerous appeals by Israel to negotiate, Abbas refuses.
Here are a few Abbas quotes:
Also- I believe in a three state solution: Israel + Gaza + West Bank
How would you deal with a geo-political adversary who worships a book:
Quran: 2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out,
for persecution is worse than slaughter…..Such is the reward of disbelievers. And yes, Jews have the Bible & Christians have the New Testament, but they don’t kill people who burn their books - or draw anti-religious pictures. We cannot ignore these truths.
AGAIN – I ask for the truth – if any these facts are false, post the evidence
The only people reading your unhinged bigotry are people like yourself but as promised, here's p2/2 to you and your ideas of "geo-political adversary". I could write at length but will take a leaf from your play book and use links, tho' of course mine will not be bigoted, desperate or hysterical ! You just continue to keep plying the cheap, prejudiced, vulgar propaganda and I'll reply with scholarship and it won't be lashing out - it'll just be dispassionately batting you out of the ball park, as - as I've pointed out to you before, you're clearly a wannabe bully and actual bigot.
Thus, I again refer you to Prof. Shlomo Sand ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shlomo_Sand ) and his now famous book, here appended in its entirety :
If you have the gumption to engage with that, you can then graduate to :
"Israel's Sacred Terrorism", by Livia Rokach (A study based on Moshe Sharett's Personal Diary, and other documents. Foreword by Noam Chomsky) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20831.htm ;
"The Great Islamophobic Crusade - Inside the Bizarre Cabal of Secretive Donors, Demagogic Bloggers, Pseudo-Scholars, European Neo-Fascists, Violent Israeli Settlers, and Republican Presidential Hopefuls Behind the Crusade", by Max Blumenthal : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32432.htm ;
"AIPAC Works for the 1 Percent", by Chris Hedges : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30719.htm ;
"It’s time for the media to talk about Zionism", by Philip Weiss : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33218.htm &
"Rabbis for Palestine : A One State Solution For All" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjNJacDvPo .
7 links in all and only one video but I don't feel the need to prove anything to you as I suspect that you have a very biased and limited perspective on 'proof' ; 'history' ; 'evidence' or 'accuracy', so I shall leave others to gauge the tone and content here. Remember again 'bensdad', your spamming prejudicial l crap on this forum is not without karmic consequence and here endeth your smack in the mouth - for now !!
Finally, just one, two-part question - do you believe in 'Universal Human Rights' or not ? Read if you dare & go on bensadad, try calling me what you tried to call me before and see what I come back with.
ad iudicium ...
How many times have American presidents tried to broker a deal between the two -
and had the Palestinians back out ?
How many Jews are in the Palestinian cabinet or legislature ? 0 How many Mulims/Arabs are in the Israeli cabinet or legislature ? 12
Lets get down to the real nitty-gritty-
one of the main reasons Israel is such a success is based on the support of Jews from around the world.
one of the main reasons "Palestine" is such a basket case is based on the NON-support of Arabs/Muslim countries from around the world.
imagine what would happen if all of the Arab/Muslim counties used just 1% of their oil revenues to train Palestinians and build infrastructure
Maybe there are reasons for that -
and reasons why Israel assimilated Jews from around the world
but Jordan refused to assimilate its brothers.
When Arabs controlled the temple mount, no Jews were allowed.
Now that Israel does, everyone is allowed
The two sides are not equally at fault for this
Would you like me to deconstruct your comment or do you stand by all that you say ?
minima maxima sunt ...