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Forum Post: "U.S. Policy to Israel, Palestine Must Change" - Dr.Jill Stein, Green Party Presidential Candidate.

Posted 11 years ago on Sept. 21, 2012, 8:47 a.m. EST by shadz66 (19985)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"U.S. Policy to Israel, Palestine Must Change",

"The United States remains complicit in the ongoing systematic violation of human rights by the Israeli government."

by Jill Stein, Green Party Presidential Candidate.

United States policy regarding Israel and Palestine must be revised to make international law, peace and human rights for all people, no matter their religion or nationality, the central priorities. While the U.S. government sometimes voices support for this principle in name, in practice U.S policy towards Palestine and Israel has violated this principle more often than not.

In particular, the United States has encouraged the worst tendencies of the Israeli government as it pursues policies of occupation, apartheid, assassination, illegal settlements, blockades, building of nuclear bombs, indefinite detention, collective punishment, and defiance of international law.

Instead of allying with the courageous proponents of peace within Israel and Palestine, our government has rewarded consistent abusers of human rights. There is no peace or justice or democracy at the end of such a path. We must reset U.S. policy regarding Israel and Palestine, as part of a broader revision of U.S. policy towards the Middle East.

On taking office, I will put all parties on notice – including the Israeli government, the Palestinian Authority, and the Hamas administration in Gaza – that future U.S. support will depend on respect for human rights and compliance with international law. All three administrations will also be held responsible for preventing attacks by non-state actors on civilians or military personnel of any nationality. The parties will be given 60 days to each demonstrate unilateral material progress towards these ends.

Material progress will be understood to include but not be limited to an end to the discriminatory apartheid policies within the state of Israel, the removal of the Separation Wall, a ban on assassination, movement toward denuclearization, the release of all political prisoners and journalists from Israeli and Palestinian prisons, disarmament of non-state militias, and recognition of the right of self-determination for both Israelis and Palestinians.

Failure by any party to demonstrate sufficient material progress will result in the end of U.S. military and economic aid to that party. Should the end of U.S. aid fail to cause a party to redirect its policies and to take steps resulting in sufficient material progress within an additional 60 days, I will direct my State Department to initiate diplomacy intended to isolate and pressure the offending party, including the use of economic sanctions and targeted boycott. In this way, U.S. policy will begin to become consistent with its practices regarding other violators of human rights and international law in the region.

Consistency in U.S. policy regarding human rights and international law will begin, but not end, with Palestine and Israel. I will apply this same approach to other nations, such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Yemen, among others. I will also ensure that the United States begins to honor its obligations to protect human rights, and will expect that the world community will hold us to the same account we hold others.

Finally, as President I will put the full weight of the United States behind the establishment of a Palestine and Israel Truth and Reconciliation Commission as the vehicle for shifting from an era of human rights violations to one based on trust and bringing all parties together to seek solutions. Any stakeholder who enters into this process must pledge to work for a solution that respects the rights of all involved. This will bring America’s Middle East policy into alignment with American values. I understand that in the end, a dedicated commitment to justice will further American interests in the region much better than the current policies of supporting abuses and violence by one side against the other. And I believe that this is in the best interests of all people living in Israel and Palestine.


fiat justitia ruat caelum ...


[Statement copied verbatim under "Fair Use" from : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32495.htm ]



Read the Rules
[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago

''Israeli President’s Diagnosis — ‘Israel is a Sick Society’!'', by Philip Weiss :

''Did you hear that the president of Israel said Israel is a “sick society”? Reuven Rivlin, a Likudnik, said this over the weekend. There’s been lots of coverage in Israel, but as Sullivan points out, the declaration hasn’t gotten much attention stateside. I should think it would be viral.''

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

So consider "Yes ‘Jewish Power’ Party is Fascistic but its rise was inevitable"! by Jonathan Ofir:

Which part of this to quote? Which facts to highlight? What point to make? What to criticize? All of it?

Finally consider, are we to ignore this? But this is what happens when Nationalism is unchecked! Sad.

PS .. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-elections-jewish-power-itamar-ben-gvir-kach-kahane

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Why has Likud rehabilitated the most reactionary US-born rabbis - and their local acolytes in the forefront of Israel’s 'Eliminationist Movement'? How have their efforts to turn the whole of Israel/Palestine into a single, racially pure religious state escaped the attention of mainstream media, for decades?" - from:

"Come and hear a shocking report from inside Israeli society, by the distinguished local journalist and human-rights defender David Sheen."

"David Sheen is an independent journalist and film maker who is originally from Toronto, Canada now living in Dimona, Israel. Sheen began blogging when he first moved to Israel in 1999 and later to work as a reporter and editor at the Israeli daily newspaper Ha'aretz, and his current work focuses primarily on racial tensions and religious extremism within" Israel & his own website is ... www.davidsheen.com

e tenebris, lux!

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"What the Mainstream Media Never Told You about Palestine" .. by Kelly Hayes: (Audio)

sub rosa?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 week ago

Now note: "How Israel indoctrinates its people .. w/Miko Peled; via The Chris Hedges Report"!

Narrated by Roger Waters, made in 2018 & totally relevant/applicable to events in Israel/Palestine!!!

Furthermore consider this and other entire threads to see just how long the War On Gaza has run!!!!

A clear, concise & clinical deconstruction ^ of the events from 6 months ago - and a precis of this vid:

"The letter comes in response to a letter back on May 3 from Democrats to Biden - warning him that “Israel” is breaching US law that prevents sending weapons to parties blocking American aid."

As "A suspension of Israel’s rights and privileges by the United Nations General Assembly would put much more pressure on its government than Palestine’s full membership."

The Israeli state is openly allied to the far right in Europe and the US and beyond. It proudly sees their electoral success as fundamental to Israel’s strategy. This alone tells us all we need to know about the Israeli state.

et veritas vos liberabit!


[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Alas sadly - "There can be no clearer demonstration of the hollowness of western values than in the persistent, cynical and criminal failure to bring Israel to book for its actions"! - from:

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 2 weeks ago

Racist Staten Island security guard tells CUNY campus pro-Palestinian protesters "Yes I do, I support genocide,...I support killing all you guys, how about that?””


What a guy!

But, really, he's no different than much of MSM or our government officials that refuse to stop the genocide, right?

Mahdawi wonders what the point is of writing about it but she says, "The point, I have to keep reminding myself, is that all genocides begin with dehumanization, and we all have to do what we can to push back on this. This genocide was built on decades of Palestinians being demonized and dehumanized – and public consent for this assault on Gaza was manufactured with the help of dehumanizing narratives designed to ensure nobody could think of a single Palestinian as an innocent civilian or even a human being."

"The point is to make sure that this is all on record. Because decades into the future, when Israeli condos line the ethnically-cleansed beaches of Gaza and people look back on this genocide, there will be a lot of people who say they didn’t know. There will be people who will try and rewrite history to make it seem like the genocide unfolding right now was too complicated to parse. The point is to remind everyone too cowardly to speak up that your silence is complicity."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 days ago

Well consider that IF - "Serial Criminals Rule Israel. That’s Where the Collapse Begins"! Right?

And consider, when outright criminality and disregard for the law predominates .. there be monters!

ad iudicium?!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"ICC Wanted to Investigate Israeli War Crimes. Now It’s Caving to US Pressure"! [Marjorie Cohn]

"Two years after launching an investigation of war crimes in Palestine, the ICC is still dragging its feet."

fiat justitia - ruat caelum!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 1 year ago

"Fears of full-blown Israeli-Palestinian conflict grow after bloodiest year since 2005"

"Surge in violence either side of the ‘green line’ has led people to wonder if a third intifada is on the cards"


[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Israel's Far-Right government removes the mask that enabled western complacency" by Gideon Levy:

"Maybe the West will have to accept that there is no legal or moral difference between the occupation in Ukraine and the occupation in Palestine"!

multum in parvo!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 1 year ago

"Nine Palestinians killed in Israeli raid in Jenin"


"As funerals took place, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas declared three days of national mourning in response to what his spokesman called a "massacre" happening "amidst international silence".

"This is what encourages the occupation government to commit massacres against our people in full view of the world," Nabil Abu Rudeineh said.

Jenin Deputy Governor Kamal Abu al-Rub told AFP that residents were living in a "real state of war" and that Israeli forces were "destroying everything and shooting at everything that moves".

Top Hamas official Saleh al-Arouri said that "the response of the resistance will not be late in coming"."

It's no wonder the violence continues. What does anyone expect from this blatant apartheid state?

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." JFK.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Pompeo says 'Israel has biblical claim to Palestine' and is ‘not an occupying nation’"! by Chris McGreal:

"Trump’s Secretary of State makes comments on podcast - to defend former administration siding more openly with Israel"! And this may be an opportune time to review and re-read this forum-post & thread!!!

"The consortium of journalists that investigated Team Jorge, includes reporters from 30 outlets including Le Monde, Der Spiegel and El País (&) The project .. part of a wider investigation into the disinformation industry,has been coordinated by 'Forbidden Stories', a French nonprofit whose mission is to pursue the work of assassinated, threatened or jailed reporters."

Sack The Latin - WTaF?!!!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 1 year ago

Okay, well then, we better be giving the U.S. back to the native Americans.

Really, let's forget all diaspora through world history. Everyone go back to where your DNA says you're from even if that's several places as it is for me. Just rip yourself apart and go back to where you're from.

Honestly, Pompeo is a moron tool of the right.

Everyone should read Benedict Anderson's "Imagined Communities." Biblical stories are just that stories. All of what we tell ourselves is b.s., none of us are who we think we are. How about coming together as what we all actually are...human beings....and treat each other as such?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Why Are U.S. Jews Still Calling Jimmy Carter an Antisemite?" by Kai Bird:

& note: "The American Jewish establishment, which has wrongly & perniciously attacked Jimmy Carter as an intransigent foe of Israel & even a Jew-hater, needs to start apologizing. Call it atonement"! +NB:

fiat lux et fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"What’s Behind the Calls for “Democracy” in Israel?" by Meron Rapoport and Oren Ziv:

WHICH STARTS WITH: "It's almost inconceivable for Palestinians to describe Israel as a “democracy.” That is also the case for many Israeli human rights activists. 75 years of ethnic cleansing, military rule, Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian-owned land, an established system of discrimination that really amounts to apartheid have all rendered, in their eyes, the terms “Israel” and “democracy” incompatible. The latest Israeli raid in Nablus .. in which 11 Palestinians were killed by Israeli soldiers is just another flagrant example."

AND THIS: "Yet in the last few weeks,Israeli society has been torn apart by the question of democracy. Hundreds of thousands of protesters, the vast majority of them Jews, have filled the streets of Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Haifa, Be’er Sheva, and other cities and towns in “defense of democracy,” calling for mass civil disobedience and even “rebellion” should the new far-right government implement its plans for so-called judicial reform. The term “civil war” (or in the Hebrew version “a war of brothers”) has become a mainstay in the collective political vocabulary, alongside explicit warnings of potential bloodshed in the clash between the government and Jewish citizens."

AND CONTINUES WITH THIS:"The reform that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is advancing was largely masterminded by two relatively lesser known Israeli politicians: Justice Minister Yariv Levin and Simcha Rotman, a member of Bezalel Smotrich’s Extreme-Right Religious Zionist Party & chairman of the Knesset Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee. Both Smotrich and Rothman are lawyers - who have led a years-long campaign against Israel’s judicial system - and particularly against its high court, claiming that it “took over” as part of a “deep state” run by the elites that continues to impose its liberal ideas on a 'mainly conservative Israeli public' & denies power to this public’s legitimate representatives in the Knesset and government."

ENDING WITH THIS: "This wave of demonstrations serves as a collective lesson in active democracy. Should they succeed in preventing these antidemocratic moves, it could lead to a new way of thinking about the nature of Israeli democracy, on the need to safeguard minority rights from the “tyranny of the majority,” & on the dangers of the racist and undemocratic views, that the right-wing has been pushing for years.

"This could be a beginning of a new era in Israeli politics: more liberal, less xenophobic & maybe - just maybe, more keen on understanding that the failures of Israeli democracy can't be mended without an end to the military rule over millions of Palestinians.

"But if they don’t succeed, the right-wing government will have a free hand to suppress the liberal elements, which still persist within the Jewish Israeli society, and to push for radical steps against Palestinians on both sides of the Green Line, from disqualifying Palestinian parties from running for parliament to massive land expropriation in the West Bank or even a new Nakba.

"The stakes cannot be higher"!

[NB: I have 'paragraphed' the final paragraph of this long article, into four sub-paragraphs for emphasis]


e tenebris, lux?!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 11 months ago

"Israel does not have a right to self-defense for its occupation"! - by Mitchell Plitinik:

"Israel's 'right to defend itself', is invoked constantly by its supporters .. but international law says Israel cannot simultaneously occupy Palestinian land and attack it as a “foreign” threat or treat those resisting as enemy combatants." Also consider:

From which .. "The city’s dwindling Christian community faces a spike in hate crimes under the far-right government, with possible ramifications for Israel’s ties abroad."

ad iudicium!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 1 year ago

"Israel in Chaos" Oh my!!


With France and Israel, we are seeing that democracy is actually important to people and when pushed too far, they will rise up against right wing autocrats!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Finally here, consider Miko Peled ...

fiat lux et ecce homo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Twitter suspends Palestinian journalist Arikat and media response - silence"! by Philip Weiss:

"In yet another demonstration of anti-Palestinianism in the U.S. mainstream - there is no outcry over Twitter's arbitrary suspension of Said Arikat, the longtime DC correspondent for Al-Quds newspaper."

"Maybe the West will have to accept that there is no legal/moral difference between an occupation in Ukraine and an occupation in Palestine"!

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Trouble ahead as Israel swears in new government"! by Omar Karmi:

Which ends ... "One thing at least is certain: there will be more pain for Palestinians, even if Israel’s friends and supporters will find it increasingly hard to present a coherent defense of Israel’s 'values'.”

respice; adspice; prospice - et caveat!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Will crisis-plagued Netanyahu start a war to save his skin?" -- by Jonathan Cook:

NOTE: "The PM has as much to lose as gain from starting hostilities. But with religious

extremists dictating his agenda, he may find it hard to avoid setting the region ablaze"!

respice; adspice; prospice - et caveat!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Sleepwalking Into Jewish Fascism"!!! - by Esther Solomon:

"When the books are written about just how Israel became an illiberal abyss, those tools Netanyahu provided to a far right normalized by the media, will be seen as a key turning point"! + Also consider:

who states that:"Former Israel Air Force pilot refused to bomb Gazan children now being accused in Israeli court of "aiding the enemy" [ https://twitter.com/YonatanSorry/status/1611380292408774657 ]

"The new government will annex the West Bank, expand illegal Jewish settlements, and discriminate against LGBTQ people."

As, "A Reel War: Shalaal" and "The Soldier's Opinion" expose the realities of Israel's “nation-building.”

From which"Kennedy School allegedly bowed to donors unhappy with organisation accusing Israel of Apartheid In Occupied Territories" Also NB https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/1613439153823256576

Oy Vavoy!!!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 days ago

"What do you call People Who Fight on Their Own Land Against Foreign Soldiers?" by Amira Hass:

Which ends with this: "Does the wholesale killing of their families – in Israeli bombings that, with the approval of IDF legal advisers, kill 20 or 30 people including women, children and elderly, to kill one “legitimate” target – deter other young people?

"How many of them are motivated by it to join the Hamas army? The failure of a total victory doctrine does not derive from Netanyahu’s personal motivations to endlessly continue this cruel war. It comes from most Israelis' refusal to grasp that the oppressed Palestinian people . . . are no longer willing or able, to go along with its oppression. And that includes many opponents of the war and of Hamas."

NB "All decent Israelis must ask themselves the following questions: Is their country committing war crimes in Gaza? If so, how should they be stopped? How should the culprits be punished? Who can punish them? Is it reasonable for crimes to go unprosecuted and criminals to be exculpated?"

as - "Israel’s finance minister would build three illegal settlements for every nation that recognizes a Palestinian state"!!


[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 1 year ago

80,000 Israelis protest Netanyahu's government.


"Attendees held signs comparing Netanyahu to Russian President Vladimir Putin, and saying Israel was turning into the likes of semi-democratic Hungary and theocratic Iran. People keep social distancing amid concerns over the country's coronavirus outbreak, during a protest against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Tel Aviv, Israel, Sunday, April 19, 2020. More than 2,000 people took to the streets on Sunday, demonstrating against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's attempts to form an "emergency" government with his chief rival and accusing him of using the coronavirus crisis to escape prosecution on corruption charges. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

Thousands of Israelis protest against Netanyahu, two meters apart

Protesters told CNN they came out of fear for Israel’s future and to send a message to Netanyahu that the public wouldn’t stand for what they see as the dismantling of Israeli democracy."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Recognition that the Israeli government is committing the Crime of Apartheid --- has become the mainstream understanding within the human rights community. I do not know any serious human rights activist who’s involved in this issue --- who doesn’t believe that"! (Kenneth Roth)

"An Israeli Harvard Alum --- "It is impossible for me to defend Harvard’s move --- and we all should condemn the decision & the obsession of trying to cancel people who are critical of Israel. It is a disservice to not only academic freedom, but to ourselves." - from:

"In vetoing my rights of fellowship at the Harvard Kennedy School, Dean Douglas Elemndorf seemed not to like my tweets on Israel's apartheid, even though, among others - they quoted Desmond Tutu, a UN special rapporteur, and a former Israeli attorney general." - from:

"That Israel is committing the crime of apartheid has been expressed by, beyond HRW, Amnesty, Israeli rights group B’Tselem, and prominent Israelis -- "including a former education minister, a former environment minister, and even two former prime ministers." - from:

Israel's past, present & future as an extreme RW Ethno-State should be of deep concern to anyone who values plural democracy & I postulate that it is directly impacting on democracies around the world too!!! The main case in point, would be what happened to Jeremy Corbyn in the UK &, we should all be wary!! The Israeli "Left" has all but vanished but RW, Ethno-Religious Exclusivism & Supremacy, has no future!

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 9 months ago

Consider: "A former head of the Mossad Intelligence Agency has said Israel is imposing a form of apartheid on the Palestinians joining growing numbers of prominent Israelis comparing the occupation of the West Bank to South Africa’s defunct system of racial oppression.

"But Tamir Pardo’s views will have added impact, because of the high regard for Mossad in Israel and because they come at a time when far-right members of Israel’s government are moving to kill off any prospect of an independent Palestinian state.

"Pardo told the Associated Press that Israel’s mechanisms for controlling the Palestinians ... from restrictions on movement to placing them under military law, while Jewish settlers in the occupied territories are governed by civilian courts, matched the old South Africa.

“There is an apartheid state here” he said. “In a territory where two people are judged under two legal systems, that is an apartheid state.”

fiat lux et fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 10 months ago

"Israel and the U.S. are laughing in our faces all the way to the visa waiver program"! by Yumna Patel:

"A 'town hall' hosted by the US Office of Palestinian Affairs exposed the charade of Israel's bid to enter the US waiver program and confirmed what we already knew ... Israel has no plans to ensure equality, and the US knows it but doesn't care." Also consider:

fiat lux et fiat justitia - ruat caelum!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

"Biden Administration Takes Its Capitulation to Israel to an Absurd New Level"! by Marjorie Cohn:

Consider how "An independent human rights expert was denied a post for accurately criticizing Israel"!!!

"As the New Right-Wing Israeli regime ramps up its oppression of Palestinians, the Biden administration has taken its capitulation to Israel, to a new and absurd level. After nominating an independent expert to serve on a human rights commission - the U.S. State Department, withdrew the nomination because the expert accurately called Israel an Apartheid State. A week later, the United States prevented the United Nations Security Council from voting to condemn Israel’s Illegal Settlements in Palestinian Territory"!! &-

reductio ad absurdam?!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Consider that Israel is "a democracy", just like Apartheid South Africa was called "a democracy"!

And from the Guardian link, note: "The Tel Aviv protest, along with smaller demonstrations in Jerusalem, Haifa & Beersheba, were sparked by fears that the far-reaching proposals undermine democratic norms. Since Israel has no formal constitution its Supreme Court plays important role in keeping government ministers in check." Despite the US having a written constitution this also applies imo & further consider,

fiat lux et fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Note: "We in Ireland have a special obligation to act because we know the colonial experience of dispossession, division and what it is to be left destitute" &, "Israel needs to be finally called out for what it is: a racist, apartheid regime."Mary Lou Macdonald, leader of Sinn Féin/TD Dublin Central

et veritas vos liberabit!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 8 months ago

"Israeli & Palestinian death tolls skyrocket on second day of fighting"! - by https://mondoweiss.net/

And note "At least 370 Palestinians & over 600 Israelis have now been killed in the escalating violence"!

bella detesta matribus!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 8 months ago

Warning of Potential Genocide in Gaza from 800 scholars.


"The Palestinian people constitute a national group for the purposes of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (the Genocide Convention). The Palestinians of the Gaza Strip constitute a substantial proportion of the Palestinian nation, and are being targeted by Israel because they are Palestinian. The Palestinian population of Gaza appears to be presently subjected by the Israeli forces and authorities to widespread killing, bodily and mental harm, and unviable conditions of life – against a backdrop of Israeli statements which evidence signs of intent to physically destroy the population.

Article II of the Genocide Convention provides that “genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”

All states are bound as a matter of law by the principle that genocide is a crime prohibited under international law. The International Court of Justice has affirmed that the prohibition of genocide is a peremptory norm of international law from which no derogation is allowed. The Convention provides that individuals who attempt genocide or who incite to genocide “shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals”.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

Dr Jill Stein - "As a Jew who grew up just after the Holocaust, with relatives who fled pogroms and a grandfather named Israel, I take “never again” very seriously. And that means never again for anyone. Never again is now. We must put an immediate stop to this genocide."

ad iudicium!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 months ago

Note "68% of US voters support an immediate ceasefire, yet the Biden administration and the overwhelming majority of Democrats and Republicans in Congress fully support Netanyahu's war crimes.

"The Green Party stands with the landslide majority of Americans who want a #CeasefireNOW"!!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

“A Textbook Case of Genocide” - Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza"!

q. e. d. !!!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

"Why not just talk?" -- asks the interviewer;

"Talk to whom?" replies Ghassan Kanafani

"Talk to the Israeli leaders" says the journo;

"That kind of conversation is between the sword & the neck." G. K.

Ghassan Kanafani was a prominent Palestinian writer and a leading member of the secular, leftist PFLP & met his end in Beirut as he and his 17yr old niece Lamees Najim, were assassinated by The Mossad!

Which is "on former Israeli PM Begin being surprised by Biden’s openness to inflicting civilian casualties in Lebanon in 1982"!!

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

Note: "The current Palestinian death toll of over 11,500, like that of Israel, is not yet a final one - and will be increased by high rates of preventable death from disease, infant mortality and other causes, as well as the probable addition of most of the 2,700 people who are missing. This already makes it the second highest Palestinian death toll since 1948, when about 20,000 were killed, mostly civilians & it is probably higher than the Palestinian death toll during the 1982 Israeli war on Lebanon, when 20,000 people were killed - more than half of them Palestinians & the rest Lebanese [during the second intifada about 5,000 Palestinians were killed]."

adspice et prospice!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 6 months ago

Freeing Gaza becoming rallying cry of today's youth.

"...for many people under 25 – whether brown or black or white – the daily pulverisation of Gaza is the totemic international issue of their time, just as the Iraq war was 20 years ago or apartheid in South Africa was for me as a kid."

From: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/07/young-britons-massacre-gaza-luton-israel

This is good news and proof that the tide is turning.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

Consider .. "The notion that Palestinians of Gaza could end all of their suffering by overthrowing Hamas is just as ahistorical and false as the oft-repeated claims that the war against Gaza would end if Hamas surrendered and released all Israeli hostages. “Look, this could be over tomorrow,” Blinken said Dec 10. “If Hamas just got out of the way of civilians instead of hiding behind them,if it put down its weapons,if it surrendered.” That of course, is a crass lie. With or without Hamas, Israel’s war against the Palestinians would endure precisely because of Blinken and his ilk in elite bipartisan U.S. foreign policy circles.

Throughout the years of US support for Israel’s Apartheid Regime - it has consistently facilitated Israel’s “mowing the grass” in Gaza. This is not a series of periodic assaults on Hamas - it's a cyclical campaign of terror bombings largely aimed at civilians and civilian infrastructure. The Biden administration is not & Joe Biden personally has never been an outside observer or a friend,encouraging moderation during an otherwise righteous crusade. None of this slaughter would be occurring if Biden valued Palestinian lives over Israel’s false narratives and its bloody ethno-nationalist wars of annihilation .. repackaged as a self-defense. We should end the charade that this is an Israeli war against Hamas & we should call it what it is: a joint U.S.–Israeli war against the people of Gaza." FROM:

ad iudicium?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 1 month ago

ICC warrant for Netanyahu's arrest as well as Hamas' leaders.


The International Criminal Court has applied for arrest warrants against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and top Hamas leaders on suspicion of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

ICC prosecutor Karim Khan said he was seeking warrants against Mr Netanyahu and Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant for crimes including "starvation", "wilful killing" and "extermination and/or murder".

"We submit that the crimes against humanity charged were committed as part of a widespread and systematic attack against the Palestinian civilian population pursuant to State policy," said Mr Khan in reference to Netanyahu and Gallant.

"These crimes, in our assessment, continue to this day."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 months ago

Six months on, try to consider "Israel’s Far Right Finally Gets the War It Has Always Wanted"! by James Bamford:

"Billed as a response to the October 7 Hamas attack, the conflict in Gaza has increasingly become a war to eliminate all Palestinians—a longtime goal of Israel’s homegrown fascists." Also now consider

"‘Gaza City will be Jewish’ says one leader; core groups of potential residents being assembled; MKs from all parties in Netanyahu-led bloc support the burgeoning movement"! Also ...

This^link is titled "KNOW THEIR NAMES - Palestinian children killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza"!

As a "Post-conflict plan would put Western mercenaries & Israel military into the mix, with handpicked countries in charge of a governing ‘Trust’"!!!

far, far too terrible for latin . . .

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 5 months ago

"A roadmap for the future of Palestine"


Sadly, would this mean that Palestinians must accept crumbs? Peace may not be possible with this being the case.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

"On the history, meaning, and power of “From the River To the Sea”! by Elliot Colla:

"Slogans are never just statements etched in stone and "From the River to the Sea" is no exception.Its history, use, and the controversy it generates - reflects the liberatory aspirations, and backlash against, the movement for Palestinian freedom."

multum in parvo!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 5 months ago

So much for free speech in America. It always has been a farce. It only truly exists for the wealthy and powerful.

"Powerful donors managed to push out Harvard’s Claudine Gay. But at what cost?" by Robert Reich


"A particularly troubling aspect of Gay’s resignation concerns the apparent clout of wealthy Harvard alumni, who were angry with Gay for not coming out more clearly against Hamas and in defense of Israel."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 months ago


Note: "The Jerusalem bureau has long reviewed all CNN stories relating to Israel and Palestine.

Now, it is helping shape the network’s coverage of the war." Shocking but sadly, not surprising!!

What happened to Harvard’s Claudine Gay, speaks volumes of what forces are in play! So, NB:

Titled: "Opinion: I’m an American doctor who went to Gaza. What I saw wasn’t war; it was annihilation"!

et fiat lux!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 7 months ago

Hunger Strike to Free Gaza! In front of the White House!


And, the Manhattan Bridge was blocked by pro-Palestinian activists demanding an end to the apartheid of Gaza.


“We don’t believe there is a military solution,” Saper said. “We believe the causes of violence are oppression. We first need to address 75 years of Israeli apartheid. Sixteen years of suffering and blockade against the people of Gaza.”

Is the tide turning? Sure feels like it. Only 10 years ago, even here on this forum, you could barely mention anything in support of Palestine without facing attack, reprimand or deletion.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 months ago

So "is the tide turning?" Yes, slowly and despite efforts such as these ...

"For years the Israel on Campus Coalition .. a little-known organization, with links to Israeli intelligence, has used student informants to spy on pro-Palestinian campus groups." And please try to consider this:

multum in parvo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 8 months ago

Everyone knows that Western State and Billionaire owned and Con'Troll'ed, RW, Main Stream Media is propaganda but if that is someone's only means of information about what is going on in the world, and someone else points out that the things we think we know are mostly propaganda & so that that's what we mostly repeat - then people can get very offended at the notion that their opinions are not their own!

Anyone who is actually outraged at the Tuesday 17th October attack - should also try to remember that the Israelis have already bombed at least 19 Palestinian hospitals or health centres in the past 10 days & that they have often lied (see tweet link 3 below) about just such things before!!

The Al-Ahli Hospital had already been hit on Saturday 14 October, as its Diagnostic Cancer Treatment Centre had been hit by an Israeli rocket, with 2 upper floors of the centre - which houses the ultrasound and mammography wards (see 4th link below) severely damaged!!!

The US/UK MSM has first and foremost led with the Israeli government version of events - as a Hamas-Islamic Jihad rocket gone wrong but both BBC and CNN's on the ground experienced reporters; neither exactly Pro-Palestinian - knew what they'd seen (see the comments clip links 1 and 2 below) & so, they reported exactly as they did!!!!

No Palestinian rocket can cause the carnage and mass death seen in the Al-Ahll hospital. Israel warned evacuation before bombing it and its officials had even gloated about it before denying. So shame on all the media stenographers repeating Israel’s version - just to deflect attention from the actual perpetrators of this egregious war crime.

There is some speculation that the bomb that hit the hospital, was a USA supplied "JDAM" (Joint Direct Attack Munition) - that's come from an Israeli jet but after hearing the sound & fire power of the weapon, the Hamas or I-J rocket claim is laughable ... as they have no such fire power, and as seen from any of the rockets that they have fired so far.

So Israel first boasted that .. the "terrorists are dead", by bombing the hospital in which they had hidden. Then, when they realised the mind numbing human toll, they deleted that tweet and desperately tried to blame it on Hamas-Islamic Jihad - and are now leaving the rest of the obfuscation to MSM .. despite the fact that in a now deleted tweet by Hananya Naftali, a very prominent Israeli speaker and influencer and "a digital aide" to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu - Israel first took credit (see the link 5) - for the bombing the Baptist Hospital.

"In this now deleted tweet by @HananyaNaftali, #Israel first took credit for bombing the Baptist Hospital. Once they saw how many civilians it killed, he deleted this tweet and blamed the attack on #Hamas and said Hamas bombed the hospital themselves. 500 civilians were murdered."

Also see Barnaby Raine, a PhD candidate, himself Jewish & breathtaking in his utterly uncompromising moral clarity here and tho the whole video is worth watching, the first 22m are devastatingly explanatory:

fiat lux et fiat justitia - ruat caelum!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 months ago

There can come a time when all the facts and chronology and arguments count for diddly squat, unless we can empathise with fellow humans in their plight and as such - all I request is that we persevere and watch this little boy for two minutes and just let his terrorised eyes tell us all of his terrorised life and the generational trauma he and his family & alas his terrorised people have suffered and how - this actually informs us of the past, present and unless we all help to stop this ... the future too!

"Reoccupying Gaza and finishing off just one Palestinian armed group ... will NOT change the strategic reality of the Middle East, as the Israeli government has vowed to do"! - FROM:

Also note that ... "The ongoing Israeli siege inflicts a hidden and unquantifiable toll on the people of the Gaza Strip. Many inhabitants are suffering severe mental health issues - invariably as a direct result of conflict." - FROM:

I'm also left wondering what the ex-"Likud/DNC faction" [who once infiltrated the mods on this very site] think; where they are now and what they would now try to say in defense of Israel and the indefensible!

respice, adspice, prospice - et spero meliora!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 months ago

"I am the only Palestinian American serving in Congress, and my perspective is needed here now more than ever. I will not be silenced and I will not let anyone distort my words. I’m from Detroit, where I learned to speak truth to power, even if my voice shakes." FROM ...

Note - “I will not be silenced and I will not let you distort my words,” Tlaib said. “No government is beyond criticism. The idea that criticizing the government of Israel .. is antisemitic sets a very dangerous precedent and it’s been used to silence diverse voices speaking up for human rights across our nation.” Finally, in Rashida Tlaib's defence and re. other aspects of the current situation ...

multum in parvo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 months ago

Note how - "CNN is facing a backlash from its own staff over editorial policies they say have led to a regurgitation of Israeli propaganda and the censoring of all Palestinian perspectives in the network’s coverage of the war in Gaza.

"Journalists in CNN newsrooms in the USA and overseas say that broadcasts have been skewed by management edicts and a 'story-approval process' that has resulted in highly partial coverage of the Hamas massacre on 7 October and Israel’s retaliatory attack on Gaza.

“The majority of news since the war began,regardless of how accurate the initial reporting, has been skewed by a systemic and institutional bias within the network toward Israel,” - said one CNN staffer. “Ultimately, CNN’s coverage of the Israel-Gaza war amounts to journalistic malpractice.”

"According to accounts from six CNN staffers in multiple newsrooms and more than a dozen internal memos & emails obtained by the Guardian .. daily news decisions are shaped by a flow of directives from the CNN headquarters in Atlanta that have set strict guidelines on coverage.

"They include tight restrictions on quoting Hamas and reporting other Palestinian perspectives, while Israel government statements are taken at face value. In addition, every story on the conflict must be cleared by the Jerusalem bureau before broadcast or publication." - FROM:

ergo - fiat lux!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"As the world bears witness to the violent dispossession of Palestinians at the hands of Israel’s apartheid regime, this very same regime is conducting a parallel project of suppression, censorship and surveillance in the United States. An extensive network of U.S.-based pro-Israel lobbying groups, working hand in hand with Israeli intelligence agencies, continue to fund multimillion-dollar campaigns to destroy Palestinian liberation struggles and ensure professional, legal and financial consequences for Americans who dare to speak out against Israeli apartheid.

"College campuses have become a central battleground of the lobby’s suppression efforts. Groups like Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) pose a major threat to long-term bipartisan support for Israel as their campaigns unsettle pro-Israel political narratives and introduce young people to the violent realities of the occupation.

"Running surveillance and smear campaigns against student activists is a common feature of pro-Israel lobbying operations. Last year, SJP members at Tufts University were nonconsensually recorded and subsequently doxxed by Israel lobbyists attending a private, virtual event. Tufts SJP — which was campaigning to end a university program that sent Tufts University police officers on training trips to Israel — was targeted by pro-Israel lobbying groups with a barrage of attacks and accusations of antisemitism. Some of these organizations included StandWithUs, the Anti-Defamation League, the Louis D. Brandeis Center and a variety of pro-Israel news sources.

"A member of Tufts SJP says that the organization is being targeted because of how effective it has been at changing the narrative about Palestine on campus. She explains, “We [SJP members] now have to be very careful to conceal our identities and have become adapted to dissociating our names from our work.” But by building a broad coalition of social justice organizations at Tufts, “we have been able to connect Palestinian struggles for freedom to the struggles of others working towards collective liberation.”

"A member of Tufts SJP says that while they are heavily out-resourced by pro-Israel lobbying organizations, SJP campaigns are still finding success. Young people are increasingly rejecting the occupation and standing in solidarity with Palestinian freedom fighters. SJP activists can perhaps take solace in knowing that Israel’s expansion of coordinated repression is evidence of the movement’s ability to threaten the material support for colonialism, apartheid and violence that is at the heart of the Israeli occupation of Palestine." - Edited extracts from ...

e tenebris, lux?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 3 years ago

Faces of Palestinian children on cover of New York Times!


This is evidence of an apparent shift in empathy for Palestine, even in MSM!

These Zionist groups are going to have to and WILL work harder to justify the occupation of Palestinians because of this, so those of us who stand for human rights will have to work harder too.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"US Jews are increasingly breaking with Israel to support Palestinian Liberation"!by J.Saper & N.Habeeb:

"More American Jews are asserting that support for Palestinians is Not Incongruous with embracing a Jewish identity." Also ...

Thanx for your link & yes "this is evidence of an apparent shift in empathy for Palestine, even in MSM!"

ad iudicium?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Rutgers University Faculty: We Stand in Solidarity with the Palestinian People"! (Jadaliyya Rep)

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 3 years ago

"We are in awe of the Palestinian struggle to resist violent occupation, removal, erasure, and the expansion of Israeli settler colonialism. As faculty at an institution committed to the principles of social justice and academic excellence, particularly those of us who study and teach about the Middle East or Racism, endorse the Palestine and Praxis call to action. We affirm our own commitments to speaking out in defense of the rights and dignity of the Palestinian people as well as foundational principles of scholarly integrity and academic freedom. We recognize our role and responsibility as scholars to theorize, read, teach and write about the very issues unfolding in Palestine. Not doing so means we fail to provide our undergraduate and graduate students, including Palestinian and Israeli students, with the critical tools and information they need to understand and engage the subjects of Palestine and Israel, colonialism, US empire, and anti-racism. Those who do not study these issues can be involved in study groups, teach-ins, and other such educational activities as faculty and students were during other moments of international protest and solidarity, like protests against the Vietnam War and Apartheid South Africa.

Therefore, we stand in solidarity with Palestinians and their Jewish as well as non Jewish allies around the world, understanding that their struggle is inseparable from other movements for equality, justice and liberation both within the United States and globally. We join together in rededicating ourselves to working against all forms of racism, imperialism, colonialism, settler colonialism and injustice at Rutgers, in the classroom, on campus, and beyond."

From, Rutgers University Faculty

Truly heart warming. Exactly the ethos that every educator should adhere to, about all of the foibles of mankind, and their absolute duty to shed light on the TRUTH.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"How a Fascist Party brought into Israel’s parliament by Netanyahu helped him start the war he wanted"!

omnia causa fiunt ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"American-born IDF soldiers 'Break Their Silence' (Video)

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Here in Jerusalem, we Palestinians are still fighting for our homes"! - by Mohd. El-Kurd:

"World has looked away but in Sheikh Jarrah, efforts to dispossess us have not slowed down!"

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

Note the "'New Form' of Ice Cream 'Terrorism': How Ben & Jerry's Has Exposed Israel's Anti-BDS Strategy"! by Ramzy Baroud:

So - "Not only is the Palestinian struggle for freedom gaining global traction, but the pro-Israeli discourse is finally discovering its limitations."

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Ben & Jerry throw Israeli Govt. into turmoil"!

multum in parvo?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"The Media Yawns at the Israeli Army's Death Squads"! by Gideon Levy:

fiat lux et fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 11 months ago

"‘Anti-antisemitism’ was meant to unite American Jews. Why is it backfiring?" by Nathan J. Brown and Daniel Nerenberg

"For years U.S. Jewish leaders tried to center diaspora identity .. around Israel. But the battle to redefine antisemitism shows it is no longer working." Also please try to consider the information herein:

"The right-wing government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has taken steps to increase the number of homes in Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank - prompting more international condemnation."

MULTUM in parvo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Why Opposing Zionism Is Not Anti-Semitic .. The Christian Roots of Zionism"! by Miko Peled:

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Holocaust survivor Dr Gabor Mate explains why the Zionist dream he once believed in is built on a nightmare for Palestinians: ''It's not what you know .. it's what you could know if you want to find out''!

et veritas vos liberabit!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 11 months ago

NB:"As Israelis, our identity is tied to the Zionist story. For me, it was even more so because my father was a General and my grandfather a signer of the Declaration of independence. I wasn’t told anything outside of the realm of Zionist propaganda. I believed all of it. I didn’t learn about Zionism in Israel in a college course or a textbook in high school. I grew up with it. If I can stand up today and call for justice for Palestinians & call to boycott Israel, then everybody can do it"!!! FROM:

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 11 months ago

"Israel Cannot Rebut Apartheid"!!!

"In late June ... after visiting Palestine and Israel on behalf of a group formed by Nelson Mandela, two former senior UN officials — Ban Ki-moon and Mary Robinson — published a scathing report on their findings, writes Vijay Prashad."

ad iudicium!


[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"The story of Tantura Is the story of Palestine’s Nakba"! - by Hamza Ali Shah:

NB - "The story of the 1948 massacre at Tantura exposes the brutality of the Nakba - and the coordinated effort to deny Palestinian accounts of atrocities in favour of Israel’s whitewashed narratives."

respice et adspice!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Israel can no longer bury the Tantura massacre"! - by Ilan Pappe:

"New documentary sheds fresh light on the 1948 killings - decades after a masters student was embroiled in controversy for exposing it."

fiat justitia - ruat caelum!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"The IDF Killed a Palestinian US Citizen (80 years old & so . . .) Why Is the US Doing Nothing?!"

fiat lux et fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

Note: "There's a Mass Palestinian Grave at a Popular Israeli Beach, Veterans Confess"! ... by Adam Raz

"The Israeli veterans of the 1948 battle at Tantura village finally come clean about the mass killing of Arabs that took place after the village's surrender."

fiat lux et fiat justitia!


PS: The idiot below's reply is now comprised of a 2 x 3 line paras reply as of 13 hours after posting! However, I am only alluding to this in order to try to prevent another irrational screed being spewed!

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 2 years ago

He forgot to exercise Voluntary Apartheid. Burqas and hijabs are also instruments for the vulnerable ones to exercise Voluntary Apartheid from the porn-starved animals' evil eyes and more, in order to promote societal tranquillity.

Since the 2001 Sept. 11th attacks, the U.S. hasn't conferred and upheld national citizenships but non-suspect ones only ( dark-skin-toned ones need not apply -- conforming to Originalist English Common Law's precedents; to be fair, dark-skin-toned ones can apply for diversity immigrant visas; being disease-free with full-spectrum immunization such as having been CoViD-19-boosted shortly after 6 months of the last full-CoViD-19-vaccination shot is preferable; although much of the western U.S. was a cemetery made by the Yellowstone supervolcano's eruptions, most people migrate to it to live, not to die; we are already quite self-sufficient right now with cadavers to support our domestic non-foreign funeral homes well.)

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"The Israel Hasbara machine is attempting to sanitize Naftali Bennett’s “I killed many Arabs” quote"! by Jonathan Ofir:

"Not only did new Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett say .. “I’ve killed many Arabs in my life, and

there’s no problem with that,” but it was actually even worse than it appears."

respice et prospice...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Germany Gave My Family Reparations. Palestinians Deserve the Same From Israel"! ... by Jane Hirschmann:

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

So ask .. "What are Palestinians to do? Express gratitude for their imprisonment? Beg for mercy? No,of course not. They are fully within their rights to fight for their freedom just like the Americans did, just like the French did, just like any peoples with self-determination have done and will do throughout all history and space and time." by bw from ...

ad iudicium?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"A More Aggressive Israel Lobby Is Coming in 2022"! by Philip Giraldi:

"America’s Foreign Policy Death Spiral" .. by Walter L. Hixson;

"Israel, now widely and accurately recognized as an apartheid state, has with the assistance of the AIPAC-led lobby—which controls the US Congress as fully as Putin controls the Russian duma—every intention of provoking a war with Iran. Blinken, a longtime dedicated Zionist, might just accommodate them, pulling sleepy Joe along, rather than resurrecting the nuclear accord.

"What is certain is that Congress will continue to give Israel, a tiny little country of some nine million people, more money than it gives any other country and even whole continents–$3.8 billion a year and $146 billion since 1948. This ongoing and absurd level of military assistance has made Israel the colossus of the Middle East, the world leader in targeted assassination with a specialization in waging indiscriminate warfare against Arabs especially in the captive Gaza strip, the site of repeated war crimes. For decades Israel has made a laughingstock of the mythical “peace process” as more than 700,000 “settlers” intruded into the illegally occupied Palestinian territories. Israel is in the process of taking over East Jerusalem, which was supposed to be the capital of an independent Palestinian state.

"US foreign policy has enabled and funded these actions by the Jewish state, which Israel proclaimed itself to be in 2018. The Jewish State Law made apartheid official, marginalizing Israel’s Arab population, 20 percent of the total, as well as the repressed Palestinians in the occupied territories."

MULTUM in parvo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Consider - "To distract from Gaza slaughter ... Israel lobby manufactures antisemitism freakout"!

And NB: "With deceptively edited videos and dubious allegations, the Israel lobby has manufactured an antisemitism epidemic to turn the media’s gaze away from dead children in Gaza."+TY4 your strong link.

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Pro-Israel PAC Spent Nearly $1 Million to Try to Sink Nina Turner’s Campaign"! ... by D. Shaw:


[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Liberal Zionism and the Two-State Delusion ... Two-States is Greatest Impediment to Israel-Palestine Peace"! by Richard Silverstein:

"For decades, the two-state solution has been the consensus advocated by liberal and left-Zionist groups, political parties; and foreign states (including the US and EU) seeking to mediate the Israel-Palestine conflict. US administrations (with the glaring exception of one) have routinely criticized Israeli settlement policy as endangering the chance for such a two-state agreement. Based on such a consensus one might think that the world could then proceed to implementing such a proposal. But the opposite has been the case.

"The Two-State Solution has proven to be a chimera: an object that appears to exist, but never has and never will. One might argue that two-states is a viable plan if agreed to by the parties. But one party in particular has defied this consensus for a generation, while falsely maintaining (for a considerable portion of that time) that it agrees with it. That party, Israel, no longer even maintains such fig-leaf position. For the past decade or more, Israeli governments have at first implicitly, then explicitly rejected it. Leaving the rest of the world which endorses it looking like utter fools. But governments like the US and European Union have been only too happy to continue the charade, because without two states their approach would appear even more bankrupt, and make them look even more ridiculous.

"So two-states has been a useful tool to pretend the world has a plan, when it doesn’t. To admit the truth, would force anyone serious about peace and justice issues to either throw up their hands in futility; or admit failure and devise a different approach.

"That approach, a single state comprising both Israel and Palestine, is derided as unachievable because the Israeli side “would never accept it.” But this is a fallacy based on a hypothetical future result which no one has even bothered to attempt. The same argument was offered during the South African apartheid era. Advocating for majority Black rule seemed impossible given the intractable opposition of the ruling white majority.

"But with enough political, moral and economic pressure, that same apartheid regime recognized the handwriting on the wall and conceded that its continuance was doomed. During an extended process of negotiation between the parties, a transition to majority rule was successfully implemented.

"Students of history must remember the powerful states which appeared impregnable, only to fall due to their inherent instability and internal contradictions (USSR and its East European client states, Nazi Germany, Yugoslavia, Rhodesia, apartheid South Africa, Argentina’s military junta, Somoza’s Nicaragua, Battista’s Cuba, etc.). We should remember as well the collapse of the post-WWII colonial era with Britain and France’s loss of colonies in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. Despite Israel’s apparent stability and economic vitality, it too could, and likely will suffer a similar fate."

tempus mutantur et nos mutamur in ellis ...

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 8 years ago

''The Emperor Has No Clothes: The West Bank, Settlements and the Two State Solution''

Powerful. Persuasive. Portentous. By, ''The General's Son'' ... Miko Peled.

e tenebris lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Note that Apartheid Israel refused World Health Organization and Palestinian Health Officials’ requests to ... “immediately make COVID-19 vaccines available to Palestinian Medical Workers to avert a health disaster,” violating its obligations under international law.

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Note, "Under Israeli Apartheid, There Are Two Different Pandemics"! by Alice Rothchild:

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago


"Right-wing lawyer David Abrams’s lawsuit against UCLA could unleash harassment on attendees of a Students for Justice in Palestine event."

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

NB: "Israel's Big Lie: This isn't self defense — it's a war crime, aided and abetted by the U.S."

"Almost everything said in the US about Israel's assault on the Palestinians is a lie - because we are implicated"!

fiat lux ,,,

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Jeremy Corbyn's full speech on Saturday May 15th at the Palestine demo in London:

Furthermore IF U want to see & hear why Israel could never tolerate him - watch this^video.

et fiat pax!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"The Lobby USA": Israel can't handle the truth & it didn't want to you see this 4 part doc. film:

et veritas vos liberabit!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Israel should take note: the weight of opinion is turning against it" - by Jonathan Freedland:

This is a sympathetic opinion piece by a Pro-Israel Liberal but do try to note the content. Also see:

"Missiles have been launched ‘by both sides’ in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict – let’s take a closer look at that"! - by Mark Steel:

omnia causa fiunt ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 3 years ago

Opinion is turning against Israel.


You can feel it. There is more mainstream press sympathy for Palestine than I've ever seen before. It's not enough and we must keep fighting, but it's better. BDS! No Apartheid Israel!

Free Palestine!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Note - "Israel Just Admitted Arming Anti-Assad Syrian Rebels. Big Mistake"! ... by Daniel J. Levy:

"For the first time on the record .. a senior official confirmed Israel's secret unconventional war in Syria, aimed at preventing Iranian encroachment. But what did Israel gain from exposing its 'anti-intervention' lie after so many years of denial?"

hmmmmmm ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Two former Israeli ambassadors to South Africa join tsunami of apartheid accusations against Israel"! by Philip Weiss:

Also note: "Andrew Feinstein Interview - Palestine Action; Direct Action Against The Arms Trade":

Furthermore note: "Israel’s Arms and Security Industry Is Reshaping State Violence Everywhere":

Finally consider: "Sustainable Peace must end Israeli Apartheid; anything else is just a ceasefire"

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

Consider "Israel’s Foreign Minister admits that it’s an Apartheid State"! by Yossi Gurvitz:

e tenebris, lux?!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 2 years ago

Israel is an Apartheid state, agree 25% of American Jews according to this article:


"The findings are striking as mainstream pro-Israel organizations struggle to make the case that Israel is central to Jewish identity and that criticism of it often veers into antisemitism"

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Cornel West cites 'Anti-Palestinian Prejudice' in resignation letter to Harvard"! ... by "MEMO"

As usual, the US public are far more progressive than the US Establishment ... Political & Academic! Whether Harvard was pressurised from outside is not even moot tbh but West's voice can't silenced!

multum in parvo?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8310) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

Democraps & Republicunts are "useful tools" to fool idiots like U into thinking U live in a 'democracy'

instead of a Ruling Class Oligarchy! Want some insight into who really wields power in the U$A? Try

et circumspice!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"On the roots of Israel’s violence; by Tony Cliff" [ also NB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Cliff ]

consider: "In 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon and carried out massacres of both Lebanese and refugees Palestinians. Revolutionary socialist Tony Cliff, who died in 2000 - wrote this explanation of why Israel acts in a violent and expansionist way."

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

In "Killing Gaza", the independent journalists Max Blumenthal & Dan Cohen documented Israel’s 2014 war on Gaza. This film is much more than just a documentary about Palestinian resilience and suffering. It is a chilling visual document of war crimes committed by the Israeli military - featuring direct testimony and evidence from the survivors.

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Joe Biden Bows to Force Majeure"! ... by Philip Giraldi:

"Kneeling before Israelis is latest indication of who rules in Washington." Meanwhile also consider:

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

Consider "Despite the hype, iPhone security ... NO match for NSO Spyware"!

multum in parvo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

Anthony Bourdain has died & so RIP. Here he is in the besieged Gaza Strip, enjoying ''Maqloubeh'', a typically traditional Palestinian dish, with a family during an episode of his TV show "Parts Unknown" :

Feelings about Anthony Bourdain's death will be shock & a fear that he was "suicided" .. by those who were threatened by his compassion! The man had that rare thing in celebrity circles ... Actual Integrity!

désolé ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Occupying Palestine is rotting Israel from inside & no Gulf Peace Deal can hide that" ... by Raja Shehadeh:

NB "Israel has twisted its laws and contorted its politics to protect the occupation. The UAE and Bahrain deals - won’t create peace."

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Palestine's representative to UK, on the BBC .. in his own words:

e tenebris, lux?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Palestinians have the right to resist" (6 minute Vdeo of Ali Abunimah, on Al Jazzeera)

omnia causa fiunt ...

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 3 years ago
  1. Israel did remove all of the settlements from the Gaza Strip.
  2. Gaza Strip has democracy--Hamas was democratically elected so Israel isn't "the only democracy in the Middle East" because there is one right next door. Hamas policy invited Israel's various responses such as building the wall which actually worked well to reduce cross-border violence.
  3. Since the Palestinians own the land under Israel's occupation, Israel just has to pay rent for all of the land used and being used.
  4. Olive trees which have been destroyed in an attempt by illegal Jewish settlements' dwellers to avenge the Palestinians' uprising damages can be replaced with new olive trees to restore the living space for the Palestinians in the occupied territories.
  5. The German word: 》Lebensraum《 should be familiar to all Jews worldwide due to Nazi Germany's usage of it which simply means "living space." The Germans felt that their living space was being squelched by the [Jewish] bankers of France and England so they liked Hitler's idea of fighting back to get back the necessary living space for the German[-speaking] nation which included more than Germany itself ( e.g. I didn't learn German from a German but from a probable former Austrian and Austria was annexed in 》der Anschluß《; the news about the mysterious chemical residues resulting from bombarding uranium atoms came through yet other countries often invaded/annexed by Germany--the Netherlands and Denmark; Germany often bullied its neighbors so they leaked out German secrets to help the outside world fight Germany )--similarly as the current Russian Federation's project of accreting all Russian-speaking peoples into the Russian Federation. I have a better idea: since the Chinese diaspora is worldwide and was descended from the Yellow Emperor, China should control the World as the Emperor because our sun is a Yellow star 黃帝子孫應該擁有陽光所照耀的一切。All non-master race peoples must behave and turn as sunflowers revolving with the sun towards China, which is the near-eternal axis of life on Earth unless GlobalPu.org proliferates its aerosol-making technology for a evil purpose, whether intentionally or not. Plutonium bombs can hardly fit into the space vacated by a kitchen garbage disposal unit under a sink but the primary purpose for a plutonium bomb can be fulfilled and even exceeded with this technology.
  6. The Russian Federation should return all of the land it got from other nations including Kaliningrad to Germany as Königsberg, Vladivostok 海参威 to China, Kuril Islands to Japan, Crimea to Ukraine, etc. Poland should return Gdánsk to Germany as the Free City of Danzig. In lieu of Poland being attacked by Germany again, Poland can join Germany, China, Japan, and Ukraine to participate in the concerted multi-prong simultaneous attack upon the Russian Federation by the Global Land Justice League of which Palestine can be a founding member.
  7. Poland can learn from Germany and Russia how to conquer and partition another country, this coming time doing it on Russia itself rather than Russia and Prussia colluding to conquer and partition Poland as they had done before.
  8. The calling for the U.S. is to fight for universal human rights. Use all the power available, worldwide. It's not incidental or accidental that the U.S. has accumulated so much power. The purpose is clear: to serve. The Manifest Destiny is: to be neutral but not aloof. Why WWII and its catastrophic effects worldwide had to take place should be a lesson enough why the U.S. is the essential nation.
  9. The DPRK is propped up by Redfuckgina so go after Redfuckgina. When Redfuckgina is starved enough, it will expand into Qing China's lightly guarded land (south of Lake Baikal) in Russia for Lebensraum. Why does Redfuckgina want to be an arctic country? Resources. Russia is perfect for a human organ harvest to transplant it south. Although scheduling in advance is possible, early reservation is still strongly recommended if halal organs of maruta ( 丸太 or actually "long pigs" as expressed in the cannibals' vocabulary; in my spiritual godfather's temple, I only saw short pigs brought in for offering but their roasted smell was absolutely heavenly; of course, there were chickens and ducks, too; amongst these, I still liked eating the most the cut-into-cuboid tri-layered: crispy-skin-, lard-, muscle-layered roasted pork after Mom's spiritual-godfather/ancestor-worship ritual, to ensure that I as a young child who was susceptible to being kidnapped while building New Rome in a neighborhood garbage dump, was not halal, unfit for organ harvesting, unlike the Muslim/Moslem Uyghurs, Уйгур, of East Turkestan; Mom probably could prepare a halal dove/pigeon because she drained the blood of the bird completely from its watermelon-smile neck slit, cut across its windpipe into a Nice Bowl as she had learnt well the casino's ritual-morning-slaughtering technique of sacrificing-a-rooster-and-smearing-its-blood-on-gambling-tables'-corners ) are being sought for purchase.
  10. The ancient Romans counted heads (capita) but being bottom-oriented ( actually bottom-line-oriented but the MBA optimized one step too far and took away the lining flap at the front of the triangulation underwear brief,) I counted assholes for New Rome. The individuals who had developed fistula in secrecy and darkness ( inspectors were fired or resigned ) can gain census advantages for the coming decade.
[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Consider .. "U.S. Admits Israel Is Building Permanent Apartheid Regime ..." - by Glenn Greenwald:

Did U read the link from my prior comment? Or are U going to see the one above? Dingbat! Also FYI ...

Also, IF your feeble brain can handle it ...

And furthermore try to deal with ...

Finally, consider ...

Are U capable of sticking to the Forum-Post subject matter grapes? Or is more b-s going to be the m.o.?

et temet nosce!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Hollywood's Mark Ruffalo calls out Israel's Apartheid":

"Hollywood A-lister Mark Ruffalo called out Israeli apartheid during an interview." (Video above)

fiat lux et fiat justitia!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

After Trump’s dramatic tilt toward Israel - Joe Biden is likely to restore a traditional approach.

Also consider; "Kamala Harris: We will restore aid to Palestinians, renew ties" - by Cody Levine:

Not sure that restoring a "traditional approach" is all that tbh but as Harris shows - it's a start perhaps.

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Abby Martin's Lawsuit Over Israel Loyalty Oath Mandate in US"

e tenebris, lux?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Abby Martin interviews a former Israeli Army combat soldier who served as an occupier in Palestine’s Hebron City. Eran Efrati spent years as a sergeant & combat soldier in the Israeli military, but has since become an outspoken critic of the occupation of Palestine and Israeli apartheid.

"Eran Efrati gives explosive testimony on the reality of his service and explains how war crimes are institutionalized, as well as how systematic the oppression against Palestinians really is in a war of conquest that will no-doubt be accelerated under the Trump Administration." Moving 27m interview.

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ,,,

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Trump recognized Morocco’s illegal occupation to boost the Israeli Occupation", by Stephen Zunes:

e tenebris, lux?!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Nutjobyahoo has picked ex-army general Efi Eitam, who regularly called for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians as a new head of Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust museum - as he seeks to forge even closer ties to ultra-nationalist world leaders. Consider ...

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Consider, "The Israeli settler who knows where the barbarians are coming from"! by Amira Hass:

e tenebris, lux?

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 3 years ago

The conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is fundamentally unsolvable because Israel is a secular Jewish democratic state aimed at providing a homestead abode on ancestral land owned by the believers in Judaism millennia ago for the entire world's current Jewish population. Palestinians are in the way.

Israel used to claim that it's the only democracy in the Middle East to curry favors with the Americans who obviously favor democracy and have previously supported the establishment of a Jewish Homeland on British Empire's land. Franklin Roosevelt went against the British ( who disliked the wanton out-of-British-control Zionist immigration inflow to Palestine ) in favor of the Zionist Jews. Now one land cannot house two peoples intolerant of each other. The conflict isn't about land per se but about "Lebensraum" in German or "living space" in English. Lebensraum is far more than just land. It's clean potable water, well-run schools, hospitals for the sick, caring for the elderly and infirm, meaningful jobs for the prime-aged workers, electricity, clean air, port facility for trading, food refrigeration, sewage and sanitation service, and more.

The Lebensraum of the Palestinians is being taken over by the newly arrived Jews in "the promised land" of Israel. The Jews have a likely incurable problem of the mind called Judaism in which the Jews are deemed to be far superior to all other peoples because Jews are "God's Chosen People," to be separated and holy from the rest of the human non-Jewish chaff. If you think about it, the Nazis of Germany believed in the same thing albeit about their own master race. Adolf Hitler actually agreed with the Zionists before WWII that sending Jews to their homeland abode in Palestine would be a good way to solve Europe's Jewish problem but alas, it wasn't going to be--Hitler found a solution, his "final solution." The same belief gives rise over time to the same result--concentration camps for the subjugated inferior races. Gaza Strip is akin to such a concentration camp. Having been democratically elected, Hamas in charge there in Gaza, being a strong supporter of democracy, helped the Israelis elect Bibi, Benjamin Netanyahoo, to power in the only other democracy in the Middle East. It was truly a flowering of brotherly democracy in the Middle East, complete with the good-neighbor policy, over the bridge across the Gaza Wall ( there is no wall on the bridge built in the air.) George W. Bush wasn't a drunkard but a visionary.

There is absolutely no solution possible under the current constraints. Note though that by relaxing the current constraints, multiple solutions can emerge as being feasible. The hardest problem in computer science is the NP=P problem, also known as "the traveling salesman's problem." It could not be solved in a reasonable amount of time by any current computers even if they were to make speed improvements by leaps and bounds. Does this mean that the traveling salesman's problem isn't being solved? Yes, but a slightly degraded traveling salesman's problem is being solved again and again. United Parcel Service is solving this traveling salesman's problem nearly every single day sub-optimally !

No solution is possible under the set of constraints but gradually removing the constraints makes new solutions emerge. I don't pin any hope on solving the Jewish-mind problem but fundamentally if let us say Canada were to offer refugee status to all Palestinians, I'm sure that the conflict between the Palestinians and the Zionist Jews will greatly diminish. Palestinians may never become Israeli citizens but if sufficient Lebensraum is provided to them, having the citizenship or not will become a moot point. Israel can never accept the Palestinians to become a majority voting bloc because it will detract from the Jews being the far superior race in their homestead abode. The U.S. has a similar problem right now with the Blacks and Whites. There is one with militant Islamists, too. "Old Money" tend to be more down to earth perhaps because of their longtime experience with being on top knowing how flashing one's wealth can lead to unnecessary violence. There's nothing wrong with Apartheid ( "apartness" in English; the bad things started when we based the practice of social distancing and self isolation upon the notion of "race" which has no biological basis; but with SARS-CoV2, there IS a biological basis ! Look, we already have men's only and women's only sports as well as men's only and women's only restrooms so we are absolutely no strangers to the Apartheid of the sexes; in fact, we the boys were definitely squeamish when a teacher told us to go into the girls' restroom to haul out the heavy tumbling mats for gymnastics practice; girls kept their restroom tidy and clean, without the long and splashy going-all-the-way-down-to-the-ground urinal along the wall.. so yeah, I can easily subscribe to the notion that girls don't have "cooties" or golden stains but they use more toilet paper; feeling squeamish came from what we had been culturally inculcated, not due to the cleaner [than boys'] girls' restroom without any girls in it ) if we can keep these incompatible peoples separated in different nations and minimize their contacts. Building walls can mean building peace although the globalist Jews brainwash the entire world [for easing their globalized market gains, the bigger the market, the more the potential profit--i.e. Greed] to believe otherwise. Just look at what the Jews did freely in their homestead abode called Israel--they built a wall around the Gaza Strip and they got peace there. Israel hasn't implemented the "final solution" yet but Lebensraum is being stripped away bit by bit from the Palestinians, not just from the overcrowded Gaza Strip.

The U.S.-Mexican border has a de facto war going on so a wall can make sense, too, but probably too vast and archaic. Look, our southwestern deserts are nearly death traps, extremely hot, dry, and very wide. Wall or no wall, most non-motorized border crossers will die there. I think though that a Gulf Coast to Pacific Ocean wall is an overkill ( frankly, does our orange-utan know how vast the U.S. is and how many fools and idiots we have who execute the innocent people? ) We have reasonably good relationship with the Mexican Government and the Mexican people so we don't need to do Israeli-style incursions into Mexico because they can do so for both peoples' common interest. There are far more Mexicans being killed in Mexico ( so Mexicans should have a far more burning interest, at least in principle ) than U.S. citizens there in this WAR.


[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

Whatever it may mean, I'm not reading your horse-shit but may reconsider, IF U read and analyse this:

multum in parvo?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 8 years ago

''Israel-Backed Group Sues Food Co-op ... For Boycotting Israeli Products1'' ... by Dahr Jamail:

multum in parvo ...

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''Transforming the Jewish Community Away From Supporting Israeli Occupation and Trump's Jerusalem Move'', by Sarah Jaffe:

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''How Palestinians Can Transform Statelessness Into Strength'', by Ahmed Moor:

From which ''... there is a path forward for the Palestinians. And it’s a route that takes their only source of leverage as a point of strength. It lies in the power of their moral claim, a fact recognized by civil society through BDS. Israel is an apartheid state – that ought to be the only context for Palestinian tactics and strategy.

''By restating the goals of the Palestinian national movement, away from state building and towards human rights and dignity, the PLO, Hamas, and the PA may fundamentally alter their dynamic with Israel. To date, civil society has pursued rights for the Palestinians independently of the political apparatus. The pursuit of equal rights is the only mechanism for transforming statelessness into strength. That ought to be a goal that the Palestinians can coalesce around.'' Also fyi ...

And realize the hard truths therein and just how they very effectively back up the thesis in the top link.

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''Equality as Revolution: Two Israeli Dissidents on Their Fight for Truth and Accountability'' .. by Yoav Litvin:

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''Israeli Soldier's Breaking the Silence'' ...

''Palestine Is Still the Issue'' by John Pilger ...

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

During Pandemic ... "US Senate Quietly Approves $38 Billion for Israel Amid Historic Economic Downturn!" by Alison Weir:

"S.3176 was passed without being named, debated, or even discussed, even though it would set into law the largest such aid package in US history." (from 1st^Link)

fiat lux!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Is AIPAC losing its grip on Dems?!" .. by James Zogby:

MULTUM in parvo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Israel is an Army With a Country Attached"! by Belen Hernandez:

"A new book by an Israeli scholar, dissects the extraordinary hold that the country's military — and militaristic ways of thinking, have on Israeli society, and the ideological myths that keep the project afloat."

caveat actor!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"Georgia Lawmaker says Israeli Government, ‘asked me’ for anti-boycott law she introduced"!

The second link shows how a true terrorist state behaves, as Israel again acts like a bully in the hood.

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 years ago
[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

Re. AIPAC: "‘They’ve incited hate’: Democratic congresswoman taking on AIPAC'':


[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

''In the midst of global pandemic, Israeli occupation thrives'' - disturbing item by Yumna Patel:

"Despite widespread shutdowns, curfews, and quarantines, Israel has continued to raid Palestinian cities and towns, arrest and imprison Palestinians, demolish homes and tear down structures, and facilitate attacks carried out by settlers.

''Palestinian activists, leaders & civilians have urged an end to the occupation’s activities in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem - saying that Israel is only further putting Palestinian lives at risk by violating basic global health recommendations of social distancing.

''In the time of a global pandemic when most of the world is now just trying to stay healthy, Palestinians are stuck between worrying about their health and safety and .. the fear of losing their land, homes and lives to the occupation.''

fiat lux et fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

Rep. Betty Mccollum: "Israel Practices ‘Apartheid’!"

ad iudicium ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

''The Zionist Colonization of Palestine'' by Chris Hedges:

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 4 years ago

Watershed moment as Israel lobby conference AIPAC being skipped by Democratic candidates for President.


"'Watershed Moment': Joining Warren and Sanders, Centrist Democrats Klobuchar and Buttigieg Agree to #SkipAIPAC"

"Jewish-led group IfNotNow credited its #SkipAIPAC campaign—which it's leading with MoveOn, Indivisible, and the Working Families Party—as well as years of public pressure from defenders of Palestinians' human rights—with convincing Buttigieg and Klobuchar to skip the conference.

"This is a watershed moment and a major victory against the bigotry that AIPAC has legitimized for decades," said IfNotNow co-founder Dani Moscovitch. "Even moderates in the Democratic Party are now refusing to attend a conference by a right-wing lobby that allies with bigots just to shield the Israeli government from any consequences for denying the Palestinian people freedom and dignity."

"Democrats as well as Republicans have for decades attended the annual policy conference led by AIPAC, which supports the Israeli military occupation of Gaza and the West Bank.

Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) was the first Democratic presidential candidate this year to announce she would skip the conference, followed by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) earlier this week."

"With a growing number of major political figures refusing to align with the anti-Palestinian rights lobby, IfNotNow is also focused on ending the U.S. government's support for the Israeli military's occupation."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

''Israel's UN ambassador calls Bernie Sanders an 'ignorant fool': 'We don't want him in Israel''' :

e tenebris, tenebris!

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''Massacre in Gaza: Israeli Forces Open Fire on Palestinians, Killing 18, Wounding as Many as 1,700'' ...

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

By Dr. Zvi Bar'el from Ha'aretz ...

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

“I know what America is. America is a thing you can move very easily, move it in the right direction. They won’t get in our way.” (Bendyermind Nutjobyahoo) from ...

fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

''The Untold Story of Christian Zionism’s Rise to Power in the United States''by Whitney Webb:

And consider - ''Well before Theodore Herzl founded political Zionism & published 'The Jewish State', Christian Zionists in the United States and England were already seeking to direct and influence the foreign policy of both nations in service to a religious obsession end times prophecy.'' Finally, also NB:

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 3 years ago

"I No Longer Believe in a Jewish State" by Peter Beinart:

"For decades I argued for separation between Israelis and Palestinians. Now, I can imagine a Jewish home in an equal state."

ad iudicium?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 6 years ago

Germany urges restraint to Israel in response to Gaza protests.


"The right to peaceful protest must also apply in Gaza," a foreign ministry spokeswoman said. "Israel has the right to defend itself and secure its (border) fence against violent intrusions, but the principle of proportionality applies."

That meant that live munitions should only be used when other, weaker forms of deterrences had proven unsuccessful and specific threats were present, the spokeswoman added."

And, "South Africa recalls ambassador to Israel over deaths on Gaza border"


[-] 0 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

"The Palestinian Cause: Memorize This:''

Thanx for your 2 Interesting Links. Both the German and South African responses to Israel's egregious behavior are interesting and both are tempered by history and experience.Both Mandela and Tutu saw Israel's Apartheid Regime for what it was & is. Germany's guilt for The Holocaust, means it is cowed & can not question anything about Israel or Zionism. Eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6comSliid4

omnia causa fiunt ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

"The ‘War’ for the Future of Middle East" - is a brilliantly insightful piece .. by Alastair Crooke:

Alastair Crooke, former British diplomat, founder & director of the Beirut-based 'Conflicts Forum'.

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''In memory of Razan al-Najjar'' ...

ICH link has extra info, and consider - ''The 21-year-old paramedic was shot and killed by Israeli soldiers while trying to aid wounded protesters near the Gaza-Israel separation fence. Many Israelis either refuse to believe she was actually killed or claim that her killing was somehow justified.'' Finally read and digest

tempora mutantur et nos mutamur in ellis ...

[-] -3 points by DavidJameson (-186) 5 years ago

"So WTF is going on in Israel?!"

Maybe you should travel a bit and find out. Nothing worse than armchair activists.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 5 years ago

'Most Zionists don't believe that God exists but they do believe that he promised them Palestine'

So, U reckon that there's "Nothing worse than armchair activists" huh? What about syphilis? Or AGW?!

multum in parvo ...

Observe below - the depth of the intellect that the forum troll exhibits! He didn't dare watch video either!

oy vey!

[-] -3 points by DavidJameson (-186) 5 years ago

Man sorry, I did not know you were battling syphilis. Heal soon bro.

[-] 8 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

Gotta love the heart signs of the people riding in the trucks:


[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Good piece by Marc Schulman & Uri Avnery also speaks core truths :

fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

''Donald Trump's Israel ambassador is hardline pro-settler lawyer'', by Julian Borger:

''David Friedman opposes two-state solution, backs undivided Jerusalem as capital and has acted for Trump’s failing hotels.''

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''Demystifying US and Israeli Power'', by Susan Cain and Mark Mason:


[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''Blowback: How ISIS Was Created by the U.S. Invasion of Iraq'', by Mehdi Hasan:

bella detesta matribus ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Palestine recognized by the UN. Some good news today.

Palestinian UN recognition vote passed 138-9:


[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago

''Occupy the Synagogue'', by Michael Lesher :

''Activists for justice in Palestine often stress that their campaign is aimed at Israel, not at Jews – an understandable position, particularly in light of Israeli propaganda’s manic insistence that every criticism of Israel is, by definition, an expression of anti-Semitism. But as a religious Jew myself, I cannot shrug off Israel’s “Jewish connection” so easily. Jews claim pride in a religious tradition that, as the dissident Israeli historian Ilan Pappe once wrote, has been “the bedrock for cosmopolitanism, socialism and universalism.” But when such a tradition is conscripted by warmongers – as it clearly has been – how can other religious Jews escape the sin of complicity if we allow their abuse of our shared religion to pass without protest?

''The hypocrisy of ignoring our clergy’s role in Israel’s derelictions seems particularly acute, at least to me, after Benjamin Netanyahu’s latest hallucinatory address to the United Nations, in which he suggested that every child blown to bits in Gaza was really a blow struck on the Syrian battlefield against ISIS. Since the only possible “link” between the two is that most Gazans are Muslims, and since Netanyahu’s assignment of religion-based collective guilt passed with little comment in the West, it’s hard to see how religious Jews can claim immunity when their leadership (unlike most Gazans) actually endorses large-scale war crimes.''

fiat justitia et fiat pax ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23790) 9 years ago

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."

  • Karl Marx

And, Judaism is no exception.

[-] 2 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago

Sadly, Judaism sees itself as exactly that .. an "exception" (as how can the 'unchosen by G*d' ever be worthy?) & perhaps even more sadly, this chimes with both 'American Exceptionalism' {ie the nature of how 'The West Was Won' and the natives dispossessed by 'The Indispensable Nation'} and with Judeo -Christian self-supremacy [conveniently forgetting the ~25% of Palestinians who were Christians and of course feeling superior to desert Muslims] - and also with Neocon espoused 'Clash of Civilisations' and 'Rapturous Religious Beliefs' !!! Emotional irationalities rule it seems !! All while The Climate warms up !

Hubris of course is a prerogative of the falsely haughty, bigoted and ignorant and finally fyi, please see :

''Man does not live by bread alone'' but alas 'religion' does NOT equal 'spiritually awake' either. Solidarity.

fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 9 years ago

At least religions that proselytize show some level of acceptance of other people and a belief that equality is possible even if it is on their own spiritual terms.

[-] 3 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago

Now that's beyond interesting & into the 'clearly true yet somehow more than slightly troubling'. + fyi :

Re. the former - ''Once again the treatment of Israel’s Palestinian citizens has exposed the country’s lack of meaningful democracy'' and re. the latter - ''Why It’s Important for Us to Know'' !! Hmmmmmm.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23790) 9 years ago

"Why is it important for citizens to know if their representatives in Congress are dual citizens? Because both real and apparent conflicts of interest erode the public trust. If there are dual citizens in Congress or in top levels of the Executive Branch, citizens may reasonably demand that all foreign citizenship be renounced as a condition of high political office.

At the level of individual members, transparency is essential. For example, a constituent should know whether or not another state loyalty is involved when his or her representative speaks out on a major issue, such as on military assistance to Israel or recognition of Palestine as a state. Only if we know who are the dual citizens in Congress and what are their second countries, can we intelligently assess the credibility of their policy statements and actions."

Very interesting. Of course it's important for us to know!

[-] 7 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago

''In Israel, Only Jewish Blood Shocks Anyone'', by Gideon Levy

There was a massacre in Jerusalem on Tuesday (18th Nov. '14) in which five Israelis were killed. There was a war in Gaza over the summer in which 2,200 Palestinians were killed, most of them civilians. A massacre shocks us; a war, less so. Massacres have culprits; wars don’t. Murder by ax is more appalling than murder by rifle, and far more horrendous than bombing helpless people trying to take shelter.

Terror is always Palestinian, even when hundreds of Palestinian civilians are killed. The name and face of Daniel Tragerman, the Israeli boy killed by mortar fire during Operation Protective Edge, were known throughout the world; even U.S. President Barack Obama knew his name. Can anyone name one child from Gaza among the hundreds killed?

A few hours after the attack in Jerusalem, journalist Emily Amrousi said at a conference in Eilat that the life of a single Jewish child was more important to her than the lives of thousands of Palestinian children. The audience’s response was clearly favorable; I think there was even some applause.

Afterward Amrousi tried to explain that she was referring to the way the Israeli media should cover events, which is only slightly less serious. This was during a discussion on the ridiculous question: “Is the Israeli media leftist?” Almost no one protested Amrousi’s remarks and the session continued as if nothing had happened. Amrousi’s words reflect Israel’s mood in 2014: Only Jewish blood elicits shock.

Israeli deaths touch Israeli hearts more than the deaths of others. That’s natural human solidarity. The bloody images from Jerusalem stunned every Israeli, probably every person.

But this is a society that sanctifies its dead to the point of death-worship, that wears thin the stories of the victims’ lives and deaths, whether it be in a synagogue attack or a Nepal avalanche. It’s a society preoccupied with endless commemorations in the land of monuments, services and anniversary ceremonies; a society that demands shock and condemnation after every attack, when it blames the entire world.

Precisely from such a society is one permitted to demand some attention to the Palestinian blood that is also spilled in vain; some understanding of the other side’s pain, or even a measure of empathy, which in Israel is considered treason.

But this doesn’t happen. Aside from exceptional murders and hate crimes by individuals, there is total apathy — and the obtuseness is frightening. Killings (we dare not say murders) by soldiers and policemen will never shock Israel. The propaganda machine will whitewash everything, and the media will be its mouthpiece. No one will demand condemnations. No one will express shock. Few will even consider that the pain is the same pain, that murder is murder.

How many Israelis are willing to give a thought to the parents of Yousef Shawamreh, the boy who went out to pick wild greens and was killed by an army sniper? Why is it exaggerating to be upset by, or at least give some attention to, the killing of Khalil Anati, a 10-year-old boy from the Al-Fawar refugee camp?

Why can’t we identify with the pain of bereaved father Abd al-Wahab Hammad, whose son was killed in Silwad, or with the Al-Qatari family from the Al-Amari refugee camp, two members of which were killed by soldiers within a month? Why do we reserve our horror for the synagogue and not consider these killings disturbing?

Yes, there is the test of intent. The typical Israeli argument is that soldiers, unlike terrorists, do not intend to kill. If so, then what exactly is the intent of the sniper who fires live bullets at the head or chest of a demonstrator a distance away who poses no threat? Or when he shoots a child in the back as he’s running for his life? Didn’t he intend to kill him?

The attack in Jerusalem was a horrendous crime; nothing can justify it. But the blood that flowed there is not the only blood being spilled here murderously. The degree to which it is forbidden to say that is incredible.

[Article copied verbatim under 'Fair Use', from the ICH link above and please refer there for access to all the embedded evidential and corroborative links]

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23790) 9 years ago

"How New York Times conceals Israeli violence against Palestinians"


Sit down before you read that piece. It's a very trenchant analysis of how the NY Times depicts Israelis vs. Gazans/Palestinians. Quite sad.

"That an entire population is being kept in a ghetto in Gaza, sealed off from the world and subjected to an incremental genocide, just to protect Israel’s alleged Jewish character, is, for many, a reality too awful to contemplate.

Those wishing to shield themselves from such truths should continue reading The New York Times."

[-] 2 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago

"That an entire population is being kept in a ghetto in Gaza, sealed off from the world and subjected to an incremental genocide, just to protect Israel’s alleged Jewish character, is, for many, a reality too awful to contemplate.Those wishing to shield themselves from such truths should continue reading The New York Times." - because it bears repeating & good job I was sat down !!! Finding ways to say unsayable things as per MSM s-o-p's takes patience !! But then again there's the world outside MSM ! Ergo fyi : http://mondoweiss.net/ & ...

pacem in terris - spero

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23790) 9 years ago

"We have reached a stage in global history in which it is people, not weapons nor international institutions, that have the resilience and patience to win the legitimacy struggle involving law and morality, and on such a basis eventually prevail in the political struggle despite being inferior militarily.

The challenge of living together on the basis of equality seems to be the only template that offers the parties a vision of sustainable peace."

I agree with Falk, that it is the people who will bring the change. And, they will do this on their own, outside the structure of the current political and economic systems that are strangling them. Occupy Wall Street! Never give up fighting for what is right!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

Consider: ''By Making Palestinian Villages Invisible, Google and Apple Maps Facilitate Their Demolition'', by David Palumbo-Liu:

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 7 years ago

Let us not forget Palestine and the dangers it faces with the Trump presidency.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 years ago

"Bogus charges of anti-semitism against Corbyn (and the left) for supporting Palestinian human rights are not only wrong ... they are dangerous. They are making 'anti-semitism' meaningless, and empowering right-wing forces that actually ARE dangerous to Jews!''

ad iudicium?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 4 years ago

Jeremy Corbyn is not anti-semitic, not one tiny bit. He is anti-racist and stands up for the human rights of all people on this globe.

The false charges against him are simply a tactic of the establishment and the wealthy to take down the Labour Party's Manifesto which will end UK Tory austerity and redistribute wealth back to the 99% the way it was before the neoliberal policies of the past 40 years were put in place.

It is a class matter and the establishment also doesn't like it that Corbyn fights for Palestinian rights. Plenty of Jewish people have come out in support of Corbyn pointing out the canard that's been wielded against him. Vote Labour to end austerity on December 12th!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

Re.''Let us not forget Palestine and the dangers it faces with the Trump presidency'' and trying to touch on information that just can NOT be said on any US/UK MSM ... please try to consider this link:

Thanx for that strong Huff.Po. Link here. It too is full of truths that can not now be spoken about openly.

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

"Donald Trump's Israel ambassador is hardline pro-settler lawyer":

As if The Palestinians hadn't got enough problems - now this biased guy!

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 7 years ago

Interesting piece on Palestine. The author visited and saw no conflict, just total control by Israelis over Palestinians. Truth. Worth a read.


"Before I go further, I must put to rest a misnomer. Contrary to what’s been reported in the news for years, there is no Israeli-Palestinian conflict. None, zero, zilch, diddly-squat. I can say with confidence that Palestinians have no agency. The Israeli government controls everything in the country. This total control which is most magnified in the West Bank, concerns everything from where Palestinians are permitted to travel, to how much water they consume per month. Currently, there is no ‘conflict,’ only the omnipresent power of the Israeli government and those who resist it. This is important to understand."

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''This Anti-BDS Bill Is an Assault on Free Speech'', by Sarah Levy ( Socialist Worker):

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ....

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

Excellent Maps of Palestine are to be found here:

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

''U.S. Admits Israel is Building Permanent Apartheid Regime (just) Weeks After Giving it $38 Billion!'', by Glenn Greenwald:

''In 2010, Israel’s then-defense minister, Ehud Barak, explicitly warned that Israel would become a permanent “apartheid” state if it failed to reach a peace agreement with Palestinians that creates their own sovereign nation and vests them with full political rights. “As long as in this territory west of the Jordan River there is only one political entity called Israel, it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic,” Barak said. “If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.”

''Honest observers on both sides of the conflict have long acknowledged that the prospects for a two-state solution are virtually non-existent: another way of saying that Israel’s status as a permanent apartheid regime is inevitable. Indeed, U.S. intelligence agencies as early as 45 years ago explicitly warned that Israeli occupation would become permanent if it did not end quickly.

''Even as Western consensus continues to revere the most stalwart supporters of South Africa’s apartheid regime — Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, Shimon Peres — it at least now regards apartheid itself in that country as a historic disgrace. History should regard those enabling Israel’s own march to permanent apartheid in exactly the same light. The most aggressive and consistent enablers of this apartheid are found at the top of the U.S. political class.''

You know bw - sometimes I think that folk in US have some kind of dark silent solidarity with Israelis as their nation too was essentially forged by a forced and violent dispossession of native indigenous people and culture. Be that as it may - let justice be done tho' heavens need not fall & here is a tune for u & all:

smh and sad sigh ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 7 years ago

Fascinating. Just goes to show the hypocritical foundation of the United States. "All men are created equal" "Liberty and justice for all." blah blah, yeah yeah.

5 years ago today it was "Columbus Day." More and more people are coming to see the hypocricies of that holiday and our history, and how we should devote the day to native peoples instead as we face our history of the slaughtering and pillaging that created this nation.

Apartheid and oppression hundreds of years ago is no different than apartheid and oppression today.

In the end, if we condone the oppression of minorities here at home with economic tyranny and racism and police violence and frankly, simply injustice, then we can very easily condone the oppression of groups of people like Palestinians by other nations like Israel. The two go hand in hand.

So, we are not free until we are ALL free.

Thanks for the song. Here's another one, "Who'll Stop the Rain," that I always liked when he performed it live:


So, who is gonna stop the rain?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

"Apartheid and oppression hundreds of years ago is no different than apartheid and oppression today" &

So .. like you said, just ... ''Who is gonna 'Stop The Rain''' now?

The final ICH link contains lyrics, song & a video of Jackson Browne at The Santa Barbara Bowl - 2015.

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 7 years ago

Be careful who your friends are. (I'm speaking of the Middle East.)

And, Jackson Browne has always been political. Here's one of my favorite songs by him that speaks to the environment:



[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

''With their hearts they turned to each other's heart for refuge; In the troubled years that came before the deluge ...'' - is a nice line from that Jackson Browne song and that somehow felt apt on this thread & Dr. Jill Stein OP - where I'm appending this item for reflection ...

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 7 years ago

"The Walled Off Hotel: Banksy opens dystopian tourist attraction in Bethlehem"

Worth a look. Makes the point.


Photos of the hotel:


Should make everyone stop and think.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

That Banksy guy is ahead of the curve again, with The WALLED OFF HOTEL in Bethlehem, Palestine!

TY 4 your links and for raising this matter here. Sometimes satire & art is the best way to feel and see.

ars gratia artis et ergo fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Watching the reaction to this on USUK MSM is very revealing indeed. This is a no-brainer we may think but alas it's a 'no-hearter' to some (c.f. the '9')

fiat lux ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Good way to put it, but I'd prefer to be on "the right side of history" and with my heart fully intact. Thank you very much.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

If only your sentiments were universal & thus, with Gaza in mind - I append an important doc. :

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Very Nice!!! Thanks.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

As per usual, you are very welcome & in a rush that I am right now, nevertheless, I append :

An interesting read from the ever insightful Glenn Greenwald, for your later perusal if not comment. Thanx for all your heart-centred perspectives and all your good work here.

fiat lux ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Wow. Great little article. As universal human rights apply universally, to all people, so should international standards regarding nuclear weapons, apply to all countries. Nothing difficult to comprehend there. Nothing unfair there.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Fairness, justice and compassion are not hard to comprehend and apply for any one who can connect their head and heart together. On the subject matter in hand, may I append for your later attention and strongly recommend :

Further, this short article was titled "A message to Israel", in Tuesday's printed edition of The Guardian but the web-site has a somewhat more anodyne headline.

Finally re. the authors, Mary Robinson is a former president of Ireland and was UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and Martti Ahtisaari is a former President of Finland and Nobel Peace Prize winner.

fiat pax ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

"Contrary to widespread perceptions of stalemate, the situation on the ground is far from static: more than 40% of the West Bank has already been taken for settlements, roads and military use, as have the majority of water and other natural resources. This is a moment for the EU to show greater leadership. As Israel's largest trading partner, the EU could start by differentiating between Israeli goods and those produced in illegal Israeli settlements." Seems like a good idea. Fairness and justice work both ways.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Indeed ''fairness and justice'', arguably Only Work when there is reciprocity. Thus I will append an old article, which tho' somewhat superseded by events, nevertheless gives a real perspective into current events and into the misconceptions behind present realities on the ground.

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''Michael Flynn’s Indictment Exposes Trump Team’s Collusion With Israel, Not Russia'' .. by Max

''But you wouldn’t know it from reading most mainstream coverage of the revealing affair.'' and also, fyi:

e tenebris, lux?

[-] -3 points by mideast (506) 11 years ago

Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the equality of men & women?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of amputations as punishment?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of honor killing?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of stoning as punishment?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the right of women to go to school?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of killing people who burn booksl?
Does the Universal Declaration of Human Rights include the banning of fatwas?

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Amnesty International's report on the Israeli Occupation of Palestine:


[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

I recommend this excellent and important link to all readers, to which alas - bensdad & his ranting sock puppet will be utterly impervious, lol. Thanks very much tho' bw, for posting this though for the rest of us.

From the link : "Prisoners of conscience – Israeli conscientious objectors : At least three Israeli conscientious objectors were imprisoned during 2011 for refusing military service because they opposed Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territories."

fiat lux ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Very interesting. There are many good people, everywhere, who care about others whether they are part of that group or not.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''Netanyahu’s Scheme for Palestine'', by Dennis J. Bernstein :

Posted fyi & in compliment and corroboration of your succinct comment.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23790) 10 years ago

Hmm. Doesn't sound like a great plan. "Most of its structures are marked for demolition and will be wiped off the map according to the plan. Its residents will be forced to live in what are known as development towns for the Bedouins, like the city of Rabat, built by the state of Israel. There is language on the government website about the Prawer plan to concentrate the Bedouin population. The word concentration has dark resonances in history."

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''The word 'concentration' has dark resonances in history''. Sad sigh. Alas, 'the abused going on to become the abusers' is a sad adage and truism. Thanx for your excerpt and thus, a short video fyi :

fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 10 years ago

Apartheid is apartheid. Doesn't matter who's doing it. It's actually racist to claim otherwise. George Galloway rocks.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

George Galloway has repeatedly spoken against war and injustice and given a rare voice in the halls of power, to The 99% both in The UK & globally & you're right - ''apartheid is apartheid'' period. Here is a recent notable example of GG from the debate in the UK parliament that probably prevented NATO air-strikes on Syria as FUKUS (France, UK&US !!!) were absolutely gung-ho and ready to go and become Al Qaida's airforce in the constructed, imposed and distinctly 'uncivil' war in Syria :

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] -3 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 11 years ago

You mean all of the things that the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas believe should be the laws that all are governed by? Egypt is in such GREAT hands since the revolution aren't they?


[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ & ''The Desert of Israeli Democracy'' by Max Blumenthal : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36517.htm - appended here without rancour, fyi ;-)

fiat lux ...

[+] -6 points by mideast (506) 10 years ago

how many Arab countries have elected Jewish legislators? 0
how many Jewish countries have elected Arab legislators? 1
where did all of the Jews that lived in Arab countries go?

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

You mean to say that there were people of Judaic culture, heritage and confession living in Arab countries ?! Really ?!! Who were they, how long had they been there, when and why did they go anywhere ?!!!

I realise that you have your hands full with Leo's query - but as a wee clue to help you - can I suggest researching Prof.Shlomo Sand & here's a pdf. of the entirety of his most famous, best selling book, in Israel and internationally :

multum in parvo ...

[+] -5 points by mideast (506) 10 years ago

thank you for asking about Jews in Arab countries !
in the 1940s & before, there were 850,000 Jews living in Arab countries

How many refugees ? From where ? To where ?
Why are there two United Nations refugee agencies ?

Israel is an “apartheid” state ???
Most Arab states are not apartheid – they threw out the Jews

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

"Rabbis for Palestine : A One State Solution For All" :

I note that you both fail to address LeoYo's post and points or engage with the link to a pdf. of Shlomo Sand's famous book but you would rather have us think that people of Judaic heritage and culture were somehow evicted from the lands where they had been living in safety for many, many hundreds of years.

As though there was no ''Law Of Return'' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return ) and as though there was not a suddenly newly created state to fill and as though those people had not in turn been insentivised to now leave. Yes of course they were persecuted at the end and so felt they should leave for better prospects but the deeper point of their very existence right across the Arabic speaking world for many, many hundreds of years, seems to have escaped you totally.

You even claim on this and another thread that there was no such thing as The Palestinian People, in a sinister echo of that Zionist canard : ''A land without a people for a people without a land''. You bensdad, are an incorrigible ultra-nationalist whose first loyalty is not to The USA, or to The 99%, or to OWS - but to a race-based, ultra-nationalistic, ideological, nuclear-armed, military state in the Middle East.

Frankly nothing I (or the Rabbis in the video above or Shlomo Sand ; or Miko Peled ; or Gideon Levy ; or Norman Finklestein ; or Amira Hass ; or Max Blumenthal ; or Ilan Pappe ; or Noam Chomsky ; or Gilad Atzmon ; or Philip Weiss et al) can say will ever disabuse you of your very rigid preconceived dogma but please do try to keep replying to me here and elsewhere so that I can just keep laying down the relevant information and links for other interested readers.

To replace The Shoah with The Nakba was a crime or even a wrong doing which sadly you can not even acknowledge but I'll keep engaging with you. My next reply will perhaps be more about the 50,000 or so people of Judaic culture and heritage who still live in Iran, as we're not supposed to know of them either.

e tenebris, lux ...

[+] -4 points by mideast (506) 10 years ago

Israel will unite with the Arab/Muslim countries when they all unite together and stop killing each other by the the thousands

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''Israel will unite'' with Palestinians when it is inevitably realised by all parties that Israel has now left no possibility of any 'Two State (Non)Solution' and the Palestinians then demand full and equal citizenship in the land of their and their ancestors' birth and the entire South Africa scenario then plays itself out.

You are as usual keen to push your simplistic Jews v. Muslims paradigm and refuse to acknowledge the 25% of Palestinians who were Christian in 1948 and remain so throughout the Global Palestinian Diaspora. An apartheid, race-based state can only go one way 'john' and if you live in NY/USA, how do you speak with such authority about all Israeli and Jewish people ? See penultimate parag. above and :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 5 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

How many Semitic countries have dispossessed Jews of their homeland? 0

How many Jewish countries have dispossessed Semites of their homeland? 1

Where did all of the Semites that lived throughout Palestine go?

[+] -4 points by mideast (506) 10 years ago

How many Semitic countries have dispossessed Jews of their homeland? 0 you dont count the 850,000 Jews that were forced out : Jewish population changes from 1948 to 2012
Egypt 75,000 – 75
Syria 30,000 – 50
Libya 38,000 - 0
Iraq 135,000 – 50
Morocco 265,000 – 3,000
Murdered??? Converted??? Expelled???

How many refugees ? From where ? To where ?
Why are there two United Nations refugee agencies ?

Palestine: 10 misconceptions & truths you may not want to know 5.40

[-] 7 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

I don't count the Jewish people who left on their own upon invitation to disposess others. As Hanan Ashrawi has stated:

“If Israel is their homeland, then they are not ‘refugees’; they are emigrants who returned either voluntarily or due to a political decision.”

Iraqi-born Ran Cohen, a former member of the Knesset, said: "I have this to say: I am not a refugee. I came at the behest of Zionism, due to the pull that this land exerts, and due to the idea of redemption. Nobody is going to define me as a refugee". Yemeni-born Yisrael Yeshayahu, former Knesset speaker, Labor Party, stated: "We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations". And Iraqi-born Shlomo Hillel, also a former speaker of the Knesset, Labor Party, claimed: "I do not regard the departure of Jews from Arab lands as that of refugees. They came here because they wanted to, as Zionists."

Historian Tom Segev stated: "Deciding to emigrate to Israel was often a very personal decision. It was based on the particular circumstances of the individual's life. They were not all poor, or 'dwellers in dark caves and smoking pits'. Nor were they always subject to persecution, repression or discrimination in their native lands. They emigrated for a variety of reasons, depending on the country, the time, the community, and the person."

Iraqi-born Israeli historian Avi Shlaim, speaking of the wave of Iraqi Jewish migration to Israel, concludes that, even though Iraqi Jews were "victims of the Israeli-Arab conflict", Iraqi Jews aren't refugees, saying that "nobody expelled us from Iraq, nobody told us that we were unwanted". He restated that case in a review of Martin Gilbert's book, In Ishmael’s House.

Yehuda Shenhav has criticized the analogy between Jewish emigration from Arab countries and the Palestinian Arab exodus. He also says "The unfounded, immoral analogy between Palestinian refugees and Mizrahi immigrants needlessly embroils members of these two groups in a dispute, degrades the dignity of many Mizrahi Jews, and harms prospects for genuine Jewish-Arab reconciliation." He has stated that "the campaign's proponents hope their efforts will prevent conferral of what is called a "right of return" on Palestinians, and reduce the size of the compensation Israel is liable to be asked to pay in exchange for Palestinian property appropriated by the state guardian of "lost" assets".

Now it can't be both ways. Either these Jewish people are Semites who are refugees expelled by their fellow Semites from their Semitic and North African homelands and Palestine is NOT their homeland to which they have NO right to or some part of Palestine IS actually their homeland and they're NOT refugees for leaving lands upon having severe political differences arising from the political reaction to the political imposition of Israel. Take your pick. You can't be kicked out of your homeland only to flee to another land and then become a refugee in your homeland. That's meaningless double talk. Commit to an identification of who is actually leaving a homeland.

[-] -2 points by gmxusa (274) 11 years ago

Israel's self righteous and defiant behavior is hastening its suicide. Bring it on!


[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

I'm hoping they wise up and make peace and end the occupation.

[+] -4 points by mideast (506) 11 years ago

Israel ended the Gaza occupation in 2005 and Iranian/Hamas rockets started.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Max Blumenthal's latest book 'Goliath : Life and Loathing in Greater Israel' :

''is a devastating book about Israel – an anatomy of the extremist takeover of the nation. It is a country overrun by extremists, the Jewish right, which has hijacked constitution. I don’t know how many even alternative institutions are going to cover this book, and let this person stand up against the great wall of censorship that gets in the way, and undermines and threatens any voice, person, who dares to effectively systematically tell the truth about this endless illegal occupation of a people fighting for so many years to be free.'' from :

What has Iran got to do with Hamas' home made rockets ? Good attempt at misinformation - yet again !

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3340) 11 years ago

Medea Benjamin On Gaza - http://www.nationofchange.org/israel-s-lesson-palestinians-build-more-rockets-1354804891 - Never Give Up Occupying Rhyme and Reason! Solidarity to the 99% everywhere!

[-] 5 points by Shule (2638) 9 years ago

And let us not get fooled by Elizabeth Warren:


If the Democrats ever want to win another presidential election, they need to get off the warmongering facist neocon balony

[-] 5 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 9 years ago

The Representatives in the House they can ignore-2 year terms mean they can be disposed of if they refuse to put Israel First.Senators-not so much.Paul Wellstone would never,ever have agreed to put Israel First.He could continue to get reelected without their money.There was no dirt to dig up on the guy.And he was a Jew.So they killed him and his whole family.Russ Feingold just gtf out rather than do their bidding.The only other choice would be to die for nothing,and be replaced by a Zionist Tool.I don't blame him one bit.There is nothing he could have done that would have changed anything.Elizabeth Warren will put Israel First,leave the Senate quietly,leave the Senate under a cloud, have a serious fatal or near fatal accident or be rolled up in a gun rampage.They are all controlled by bullets or blackmail and have been for many years.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

"Lawyer Who Says Palestinians Don't Exist Sues San Francisco University''by Charlotte Silver:

Happy 4th July Holiday th. Solidarity.

fiat justitia ...

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

They will win again. Once the Republicans have a few shit years under their belt, the Dem loyalists will come out from their caves and endorse them again, giving them yet another shot over the last 100 years to do something.

Of course, they will just get fucked over for a few years ago, and then the power will shift back to the Republicans.

And around and around we go, begging the same two companies to save us year after year after year after year....

Excuse me while I go vomit.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"A Marriage of Morons - Romney and Netanyahu", by Uri Avnery :

Meditations towards a One State solution, perhaps ?!

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

I like what she wrote. It makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for sharing it.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Further : "Memo to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon : The Door on a 'Two-state Solution' was Closed 45 Years Ago", by Alan Hart : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32584.htm ; For quite reflection if not exactly extensive discussion here or apparently anywhere, sigh.

respice ; adspice ; prospice ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Interesting and sad, and like you say, important to reflect on.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

For some further quite reflection, please also consider the annual 'Edward Said Memorial Lecture' at the University of Adelaide delivered by the inestimable Professor Ilan Pappe on :

Celebrated Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe whose landmark publication, "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine", documented the planned removal of 700,000 Palestinians from their lands in 1948, has written a new book "The Forgotten Palestinians".

In the book and at this September 16th community meeting at Sydney University, Pappe reveals the situation for the Palestinians who still live within Israel's borders.

This was the first event of Professor Pappe's 2012 Australian lecture tour. It was hosted by the Sydney Peace Foundation at the University of Sydney with the Coalition for Justice and Peace in Palestine and Leichhardt Friends of Hebron. The lecture is on matters which seldom receive any airplay in The USA.

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat justitia ...

[-] 6 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

From Wikipedia: “Pappé was born in Haifa to German-Jewish parents who fled Nazi persecution in the 1930s. At the age of 18, he was drafted into the Israel Defense Forces, serving in the Golan Heights during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. He graduated from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 1978, and in 1984 obtained his PhD in history from the University of Oxford.”

For those with limited time, the most important part of this video kicks in at around the 18 minute mark. Thanks, Shadz for this great and informative post. Anyone sincerely interested in this matter should watch this video.

[-] 5 points by MattHolck3 (34) 11 years ago

youtube now allows links to include a time step


here t=1080 seconds or 18 minutes

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago


[-] 4 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 11 years ago


[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 11 years ago
[-] 4 points by MattHolck3 (34) 11 years ago

that also works

the code interpreter must allow both cases with/without "s" and after the #sign

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thanx for the recommendation and extra info. & consider : "An Interview With Noam Chomsky", by Ricardo Lezama : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article32581.htm - on these very matters.

pax via lux ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

I am amazed at how you keep track of all of your sources, Shadz. Great job and sincere thanks for all you do here.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thanx for your grace and encouragement here, by which I am encouraged and emboldened to append : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12666.htm - in further connection to this subject matter.

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23790) 11 years ago

Thanks again. :) Also, famous Marxist historian, Eric Hobsbawm, has died. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/02/arts/eric-hobsbawm-british-historian-dies-at-95.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Eric Hobsbawm [RIP] was a great man with a wide and deep understanding of history. He will be missed but will still be read in a hundred years, imo. Thanx for mentioning and remembering him.

EH, Requiescat In Pace.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 10 years ago

"I have no emotional attachment to the practices of an ancestral religion and even less to the small, militarist, culturally disappointing and politically aggressive nation-state which asks for my solidarity on racial ground."

Hobsbawm was a truly great historian.

And, did you hear the latest? "Swiss Report Supports Theory Arafat Was Poisoned" from the NY Times headline.


[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Re. Eric Hobsbawm, what a quote from a truly great man. Thanx bw & yes, I saw that about Arafat & in compliment to your link, I append :

''Scientists find at least 18 times the normal levels of radioactive element in late Palestinian leader’s remains''. Even if the short Al-Jazeera You-Tube video doesn't work on that link, the text and article will still prove very useful.

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23790) 10 years ago

That story has dropped off the news. I wonder what has come of it all.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''The Assassination'', by Uri Avnery :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Please consider : "Apartheid never died in South Africa. It inspired a world order upheld by force and illusion", by John Pilger :

Thanx too for your constant grace under pressure in troubled times.

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 4 points by Nevada1 (5843) 9 years ago
[-] 4 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 9 years ago

George Orwell once asked "What breaks first-the Hammer or the Anvil?" This is a question Militaristic Zionist policymakers in Israel should ponder.In order to remind them of this,it is my idea that Activists and Artists who wish to support Palestine should manufacture hundreds of styrofoam or papier-mache Anvils and dump them in front of the Israeli Embassy from time to time.I also feel that the Palestinians should adopt the Anvil as their Icon,because it would be an understandable emblem of resistance within a very short time,with no slogan or caption of any kind needed.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago

''Jerusalem, the Capital of Apartheid, Awaits the Uprising'', by Gideon Levy :

''As always, the answer to every problem is a heavier hand. The prime minister has already ordered security forces to be bolstered, using the only language the people in his government know. And when the resistance, naturally, becomes more violent, they throw up their hands and say: “Look how they’re destroying the light rail system that we built for them.”

''Jerusalem could have been different. Had Israel exercised justice and equality there, it could have become a model city; the people who annexed it should have strived for that. In the worst days of the intifada, relatively little terror originated in the city, even though its residents could travel freely.

''The mass arrests in Jerusalem that aroused no interest in Israel, the settlers’ invasion of Arab neighborhoods with the support of the government and courts, the criminal neglect for which the city is responsible — all this will have a price.

''How long will they see their children afraid to leave their homes for fear of being attacked by hooligans in the street? How long will they see their children arrested for every flying stone? How long will they watch the neglect in their neighborhoods?

''How long will they consent to their tacit expulsion from the city? Between 1967 and 2013, Israel revoked the residency status of 14,309 Palestinians in Jerusalem, with strange claims that don’t apply to any of its Jewish residents. Isn’t that apartheid?'' .. & also see :

"Twelve years ago, Israeli bulldozers rolled into Jenin camp in the West Bank in the midst of the second intifada. Israel had just lost its largest number of soldiers in a single battle as the army struggled through a warren of narrow alleys. In scenes that shocked the world, Israel turned hundreds of homes to rubble.

''With residents living in tents, Israel insisted on the terms of Jenin camp’s rehabilitation. The alleys that assisted the Palestinian resistance in its ambushes had to go. In their place, streets were built wide enough for Israeli tanks to patrol.

''In short, both the Palestinians’ humanitarian needs and their right in international law to resist their oppressor were sacrificed to satisfy Israel’s desire to make the enforcement of its occupation more efficient.''


Your 'hammer & anvil' analogy, has real value & the hammer of Zionist Apartheid is flawed and cracked and weakens with every blow whilst the anvil abides. The deepest irony of Palestine - is that the Arabic speaking Palestinian peasantry who were 'ethnically cleansed' and dispersed in 1948 were & are some of the most likely living descendants of the many ancient peoples who have lived in what is now called Israel .. Canaanites; Philistines; Phoenicians; Samaritans; Hebrews / Israelites / Jews & many others.

In a dark irony, Zionism is a racially based ideology which emerged out of the various 'nationalisms' enabled by the dissolution of the Austrian-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires & that people of Judaic heritage were at the receiving end of the horrors of Germanic, Aryan Uber-Nationalism & the abused seem to have now gone on to become the abusers ?! Or is that too simplistic ?!!

In any case - the oppression and occupation just can't go on & the South African paradigm awaits.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 9 years ago

Jews abandoned Militarism and Statism millennia ago for good reason.The people who decided to go back to them again are at best,Bad Jews and Posers using a Tragic History for Political Purposes at Worst-unless they were Actual Criminals all along.Something does not compute.Israel claims to be the Jewish State while their Policies are the most UnJewish Policies Imaginable.Iacta est alea.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago

For Apartheid in Israel, like in South Africa - ''the die is cast'' indeed !!! Also fyi, further consider :

fiat justitia ...

[-] 4 points by LeoYo (5909) 11 years ago

Why the Mideast Exploded, Really

Sunday, 23 September 2012 09:20 By Ray McGovern, Consortium News | News Analysis


"Why Is the Arab world so easily offended?" asks the headline atop an article by Fouad Ajami, which the Washington Post published online last Friday to give perspective to the recent anti-American violence in Muslim capitals.

While the Post described Ajami simply as a "senior fellow" at Stanford's conservative Hoover Institution, Wikipedia gives a more instructive perspective on his checkered career and dubious credibility.

An outspoken supporter of the war on Iraq, Ajami was still calling it a "noble effort" well after it went south. He is a friend and colleague of one of the war's intellectual authors, neocon Paul Wolfowitz, and also advised Condoleezza Rice. It was apparently Wolfowitz or Rice who fed Ajami's analyses to then-Vice President Dick Cheney, who cited Ajami's views repeatedly in speeches.

The most telling example of this came in Cheney's VFW address on August 26, 2002, in which the Vice President laid down the terms of reference for the planned attack on Iraq. Attempting to assuage concerns about the upcoming invasion, Cheney cited Ajami's analysis: "As for the reaction of the Arab 'street,' the Middle East expert Professor Fouad Ajami predicts that after liberation, the streets in Basra and Baghdad are 'sure to erupt in joy in the same way the throngs in Kabul greeted the Americans.'"

In his writings, Ajami did warn, in a condescending way, that one could expect some "road rage ... of a thwarted Arab world – the congenital condition of a culture yet to take full responsibility for its self-inflicted wounds." He then added:

"There is no need to pay excessive deference to the political pieties and givens of the region. Indeed, this is one of those settings where a reforming foreign power's simpler guidelines offer a better way than the region's age-old prohibitions and defects."

No One Better?

Ignoring the albatross of tarnished credentials hanging around Ajami's neck, the Post apparently saw him as just the right academician to put perspective on the violence of last week in Middle East capitals. As for his record of credibility: Well, who takes the trouble to go to Wikipedia for information on pundits? Nor were the Post's editors going to take any chances that its newspaper readers might miss the benefit of Ajami's wisdom. So the Post gave pride of place to the same article in Sunday's Outlook section, as well. What the Post and other mainstream media want us to believe comes through clearly in the title given to the article's jump portion, which dominates page 5: "Why a YouTube trailer ignited Muslim rage."

Setting off the article were large, scary photos: on page one, a photo of men brandishing steel pipes to hack into the windows of the U.S. embassy in Yemen; the page-5 photo showed a masked protester, as he "ran from a burning vehicle near the U.S. embassy in Cairo." So – to recapitulate – the Post's favored editorial narrative of the Mideast turmoil is that hypersensitive, anti-American Muslims are doing irrational stuff like killing U.S. diplomats and torching our installations. This violence was the result of Arabs all too ready to take offense at a video trailer disrespectful of the Prophet. Nonetheless, it seems to be true that the trailer did have some immediate impact and will have more. According to an eyewitness, the 30 local guards who were supposed to protect the U.S. consulate in Benghazi simply ran away as the violent crowd approached on Tuesday night.

Wissam Buhmeid, the commander of the Tripoli government-sanctioned Libya's Shield Brigade, effectively a police force for Benghazi, maintained that it was anger over the video trailer which made the guards abandon their post.

"There were definitely people from the security forces who let the attack happen because they were themselves offended by the film; they would absolutely put their loyalty to the Prophet over the consulate. The deaths are all nothing compared to insulting the Prophet."

Predictably, Islamophobes and Muslim haters with influence over Western media coverage are citing the violence as the kind of "irrational" over-reaction that "exposes" Islam's intolerance and incompatibility with democratic values and demonstrates that Islam is on a collision course with the West.

It is no surprise that Ajami gives no attention to the many additional factual reasons explaining popular outrage against the U.S. and its representatives – reasons that go far deeper than a video trailer, offensive though it was. Ajami steers clear of the dismal effects of various U.S. policies over the years on people across the Muslim world – in countries like Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, Tunisia, Libya, Afghanistan. (The list stretches as far as distant Indonesia, the most populous Muslim state.)

Last week's violence not only reflects the deep anger at and distrust of the U.S. across the Islamic world, but also provides insight into the challenges posed by the power now enjoyed by the forces of extremism long held in check by the dictators toppled by last year's wave of revolutions.

Cui Bono?

Who are the main beneficiaries of misleading narratives like that of Ajami. He himself concedes, "It is never hard to assemble a crowd of young protesters in the teeming cities of the Muslim world. American embassies and consulates are magnets for the disgruntled."

So, does that mean the notorious video trailer is best regarded as a catalyst for the angry protests rather than the underlying cause? In other words, if the video served as the spark, who or what laid the kindling? Who profits from the narrative that neocons are trying so hard to embed in American minds?

Broad hints can be seen in the Washington Post's coverage over recent days – including a long piece by its Editorial Board, "Washington's role amid the Mideast struggle for power," published the same day Ajami's article appeared online.

What the two have in common is that the word "Israel" appears in neither piece. One wonders how and why the Post's editors could craft a long editorial on the "Mideast struggle for power" — and give editorial prominence to Ajami's article — without mentioning Israel. Presumably because the Post's readers aren't supposed to associate the fury on the Arab "street" with anger felt by the vast majority Arabs over what they see as U.S. favoritism toward Israel and neglect for the plight of the Palestinians. The Israeli elephant, with the antipathy and resentment its policies engender, simply cannot be allowed into the discussion.

In the circumstances of last week, Israel may be less a centerpiece than the ugly Islamophobia that has found a home in America. But these factors tend to build on and reinforce each other. And the indignities suffered at the hand of Israel certainly has resonance is the larger context of Muslims who feel their religion and culture are under attack in a variety of ways.

"Why Do They Hate Us?"

On Saturday, during a live interview on Al-Jazeera, I tried to inject some balance into the discussion. I noted that one key reason for the antipathy toward the U.S. among Muslims is the close identification of the U.S. with Israel and the widespread realization that support from Washington enables Israel's policies of oppression and warmongering against the Palestinians and its regional neighbors. [As an example of that Israeli brutality and American complicity, an op-ed in Monday's New York Times detailed how U.S. diplomats in 1982 acquiesced to Israeli actions in Lebanon that led to the massacre of defenseless Palestinian civilians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps.]

As to "why they hate us," I had time to recall three very telling things I had mentioned in an earlier article on this sensitive topic.

1 — From the 9/11 Commission Report of July 2004, page 147, regarding the motivation of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed: "By his own account, KSM's animus toward the United States stemmed not from his experience there as a student, but rather from his violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel."

2 — The mainstream-media-neglected report from the Pentagon-appointed Defense Science Board, a report that took direct issue with the notion that they hate us for our freedom. Amazingly, in their Sept. 23, 2004, report to Rumsfeld, the DSB directly contradicted what Vice President Dick Cheney and President George W. Bush had been saying about "why they hate us." Here's part of what the DSB said:

"Muslims do not 'hate our freedom,' but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf States. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy."

The New York Times ignored the Defense Science Board's startling explanation (as it has other references to the elephant plopped on the sofa). On Nov. 24, 2004, the erstwhile "newspaper of record" did publish a story on the board's report — but performed some highly interesting surgery.

Thom Shanker of the Times quoted the paragraph beginning with "Muslims do not 'hate our freedom'" (see above), but he or his editors deliberately cut out the following sentence about what Muslims do object to, i.e., U.S. "one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights" and support for tyrannical regimes. The Times then included the sentence immediately after the omitted one. In other words, it was not simply a matter of shortening the paragraph. Rather, the offending middle sentence was surgically removed.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thanx 'LeoYo' for this very strong article, contribution & link here, which I used myself very recently on :

fiat lux ...


[-] 4 points by LeoYo (5909) 11 years ago

The problem is, many ideological Americans don't support peace http://occupywallst.org/forum/nyc-subway-ads-call-for-defeat-of-jihad-savages/ .

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Peace is probably antithetical to any Military-Industrial-Complex and War Machine, where The Military Expenditure is actually used to surreptitiously support huge areas of a de facto War Economy ~*~ In Israel/Palestine, for Peace to break out there must be opportunity to give voice to all who believe in it :

fiat pax ...


[-] 3 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

Noam Chomsky on the Legacy of Ariel Sharon: Not Speaking Ill of the Dead "Imposes a Vow of Silence"

Monday, 13 January 2014 11:40 By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! | Video Interview


Former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon died Saturday at the age of 85 after eight years in a coma. Sharon was one of the most dominant political figures in Israel’s history, involved in each of Israel’s major wars dating back to its founding in 1948. Among Palestinians, Sharon was one of the most reviled political figures in the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He is seen as father of the settlement movement and an architect of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon that killed a reported 20,000 Palestinian and Lebanese. We discuss Sharon’s legacy with three guests: Noam Chomsky, world-renowned political dissident, linguist, author and Institute Professor Emeritus at Massachusetts Institute of Technology; Rashid Khalidi, Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia University; and Avi Shlaim, Emeritus Professor of International Relations at Oxford University, widely regarded as one of the world’s leading scholars on the Israeli-Arab conflict. "There is a convention that you’re not supposed to speak ill of the recently dead, which unfortunately imposes a kind of vow of silence, because there is nothing good to say," Chomsky says. "He was a brutal killer; he had one fixed idea in mind which drove him all his life: a greater Israel, as powerful as possible, as few Palestinians as possible. ... He doubtless showed courage and commitment to pursuing this ideal, which is an ugly and horrific one."


This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: We begin in Israel, where a state funeral was held today in front of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, for former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. He died Saturday after eight years in a coma. He was 85 years old. He’ll be buried in a state funeral today at his home in southern Israel.

The U.S. was among eight countries—18 countries to send delegations to attend Sharon’s funeral, along with Middle East international envoy Tony Blair and the Russian and German foreign ministers. At a state memorial in Jerusalem, Vice President Joe Biden remembered Sharon as a controversial, but bold military leader and statesman.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: When he told 10,000 Israelis to leave their homes in Gaza in order, from his perspective, to strengthen Israel, I can’t think of a much more controversial—as a student of the Jewish state, I can’t think of a much more difficult and controversial decision been made. But he believed it, and he did it. The security of his people was always Arik’s unwavering mission, a non-breakable commitment to the future of Jews, whether 30 years or 300 years from now.

AMY GOODMAN: That was Vice President Joe Biden speaking during Ariel Sharon’s memorial. Thousands of Israelis came to pay their respects as his coffin lay in state outside the parliament building in Jerusalem. Ministers held a minute’s silence at Sunday’s Cabinet meeting to remember their former leader. This is Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU: [translated] In all of his latest roles as minister of defense, as minister of housing, minister of infrastructures, minister of foreign affairs, Arik has contributed to the state of Israel and, as much as he could, to the security of Israel, and that’s what he did as Israel’s prime minister. I believe he represents a generation of Jewish leaders who rose from our people with the resumption of our independence. He was tied to the land. He knew the need to protect the land, and he understood that, above all that, our independence is our ability to protect ourselves by ourselves. I believe he will be remembered as one of the prominent leaders and one of the bravest commanders in the heart of Israel forever.

AMY GOODMAN: Ariel Sharon has been one of the most dominant political figures in Israel’s history, involved in each of Israel’s major wars dating back to its founding in 1948. As prime minister, he oversaw Israel’s disengagement from the Gaza Strip. The Gaza withdrawal caused a serious rift in Sharon’s Likud Party, which led to his departure. He formed a new party, Kadima, which maintained the Gaza disengagement while expanding Israeli control over the major settlement blocks in the occupied West Bank.

Among Palestinians, Sharon was one of the most reviled political figures in the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict. He’s seen as father of the settlement movement, an architect of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which killed a reported 20,000 Palestinians and Lebanese. An Israeli commission of inquiry found Sharon had indirect responsibility for the massacre of over a thousand Palestinian refugees at the Sabra and Shatila camps in Lebanon in 1982.

To talk about Ariel Sharon’s life and legacy, we’re joined now by three guests. In New York, we’re joined by Rashid Khalidi, the Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia University, author of a number of books, including Brokers of Deceit: How the U.S. Has Undermined Peace in the Middle East and, just reissued, Under Siege: PLO Decisionmaking During the 1982 War.

Joining us from his home in Massachusetts by phone, Noam Chomsky, world-renowned political dissident, linguist and author, Institute Professor Emeritus at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, where he’s taught for more than 50 years. His 1983 book, The Fateful Triangle, is known as one of the definitive works on the Israel-Palestine conflict and the 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

And we are also joined from Oxford by Avi Shlaim, an Emeritus Professor of International Studies at Oxford University, the author of Israel and Palestine: Reappraisals, Revisions, Refutations. He served in the Israeli army in the mid-'60s and is widely regarded as one of the world's leading scholars on the Israeli-Arab conflict.

We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Let’s go first to the Israeli historian, Avi Shlaim. Your response to the death of Ariel Sharon, what you feel he should be remembered for?

AVI SHLAIM: Ariel Sharon is one of the most iconic and controversial figures in Israel’s history. He had deep—he was a deeply flawed character, renowned for his brutality, mendacity and corruption. Despite these character flaws, he is a major figure in shaping Israel’s modern history.

He was one of the five most influential figures who left a deep mark on modern Israel. The first was David Ben-Gurion, the founder of the state, who in 1949 concluded the armistice agreements with the neighboring Arab states, the only internationally recognized borders that Israel has ever had. Second was Levi Eshkol, who, in the aftermath of the June 1967 War, presided over the transformation of Israel from a plucky little democracy into a brutal colonial power. The third was the Likud leader, Menachem Begin, who signed the first peace treaty with an Arab country. He signed the peace treaty with Egypt in 1979. The fourth was Yitzhak Rabin, the only Israeli prime minister who went forward on the political front towards the Palestinians, and he did this by signing the Oslo Accord in 1939 and clinching the historic compromise between the two nations with the iconic handshake with Yasser Arafat on the White House lawn.

And finally, there is Ariel Sharon, who always rejected the Oslo peace process, who as prime minister tried to sweep away the remnants of Oslo and forge a new strategy of unilateralism, of giving up on the Palestinians and redrawing unilaterally the borders of greater Israel. So, his legacy can be summed up in one word—unilateralism—acting in defiance of U.N. resolutions, international law and international public opinion. The real question is: How was Ariel Sharon, and how is Israel today under his successors, able to defy the entire international community? And the answer to that is that Israel could not have done it on its own, but it has a little friend, and the friend is the United States of America. But that is a different story.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to break and then get response from Professor Rashid Khalidi and Professor Noam Chomsky, as well as continue our discussion with Israeli historian Avi Shlaim. This is Democracy Now! We’re talking about the death of Ariel Sharon. Stay with us.


[-] 6 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking about the death of the former prime minister, Ariel Sharon, who died Saturday after eight years in a coma. He was 85 years old. We are joined by Professor Noam Chomsky in Massachusetts, by Avi Shlaim, the Israeli historian at Oxford University in Britain, and we’re joined here in New York by Rashid Khalidi. Among his books are Brokers of Deceit: How the U.S. Has Undermined Peace in the Middle East. He’s the Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia University. You’re also Palestinian. Your response to the death of Ariel Sharon?

RASHID KHALIDI: Well, for me, the most important emotion is a sense of, finally, the man who carried out a war in which 20,000 people were killed, the Lebanon War of 1982, who besieged Beirut, who destroyed building after building, killing scores of civilians in a search to destroy the PLO leadership, has finally left the world. I was in Beirut that summer of 1982. And I—to me, it’s horrific to watch the hagiographies that are being produced by people like Vice President Biden, by The New York Times, by much of the media, about a man who really should have ended his days at The Hague before the International Criminal Court. He was a man who, from the very beginning of his career, started out killing people. As the commander of Unit 101, he was the man who ordered the Qibya massacre.

AMY GOODMAN: Explain. What is Unit 101?

RASHID KHALIDI: Unit 101 was a military unit of the Israeli army formed at the orders of the Israeli leadership of the time to carry out savage reprisal raids. But we’re talking about dozens of victims. In retaliation for, in this case, two or three people being killed, 69 people had their homes blown up over their heads.

AMY GOODMAN: When was this?

RASHID KHALIDI: This was 1953 in a small village in the—what is today the West Bank. This was the first condemnation of Israel by a Security Council resolution. This was something that the United States at the time was willing to say was a horrible, horrible crime. And this is a man who, since then, really, has only acted on the basis of a belief that force is the only thing the Arabs understand. The idea that he is now considered by some to be a peacemaker is grotesque, frankly.

AMY GOODMAN: Noam Chomsky, you wrote The Fateful Triangle in response to what happened in Lebanon. It changed the discourse for many in this country. First, explain your reaction to the death of Ariel Sharon and what we should understand about him.

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, you know, there is a convention that you’re not supposed to speak ill of the recently dead, which unfortunately imposes a kind of vow of silence because there’s nothing else to say—there’s nothing good to say. What both Rashid and Avi Shlaim have said is exactly accurate. He was a brutal killer. He had one fixed idea in mind, which drove him all his life: a greater Israel, as powerful as possible, as few Palestinians as possible—they should somehow disappear—and an Israel which could be powerful enough to dominate the region. The Lebanon War then, which was his worst crime, also had a goal of imposing a client state in Lebanon, a Maronite client state. And these were the driving forces of his life.

The idea that the Gaza evacuation was a controversial step for peace is almost farcical. By 2005, Gaza had been devastated, and he played a large role in that. The Israeli hawks could understand easily that it made no sense to keep a few thousand Israeli settlers in Gaza using a very large percentage of its land and scarce water with a huge IDF, Israeli army, contingent to protect them. What made more sense was to take them out and place them in the West Bank or the Golan Heights—illegal. It could have been done very simply. They could have—the Israeli army could have announced that on August 1st they’re leaving Gaza, in which case the settlers would have piled into the trucks that were provided to them, which would take them from their subsidized homes in Gaza to illegal subsidized homes in other territories that Israel intended to keep, and that would have been the end of it. But instead, a—what Israeli sociologists call, Baruch Kimmerling called an "absurd theater" was constructed to try to demonstrate to the world that there cannot be any further evacuations.

The farce was a successful public relations effort. Joseph Biden’s comments illustrate that. It was particularly farcical when you recognize that it was a virtual replay of what happened in 1982 when Israel was compelled to withdraw from the Egyptian Sinai and carried out an operation that the Israeli press ridiculed as Operation National Trauma 1982: We have to show the world how much we’re suffering by carrying out an action that will benefit our power and our security. And that was the peacemaking effort.

But his career is one of unremitting brutality, dedication to the fixed idea of his life. He doubtless showed courage and commitment to pursuing this ideal, which is an ugly and horrific one.

AMY GOODMAN: Avi Shlaim, go back to 1982 and what happened in Lebanon. First, where were you?

AVI SHLAIM: In 1982, Ariel Sharon was defense minister in Menachem Begin’s government, and he was the architect of the invasion of Lebanon. And it was a war of deception because Sharon tricked his Cabinet colleagues into launching this operation by pretending the aims were very limited, whereas in fact he had a big plan to completely change the bare geopolitics of the region, to create a new order in Lebanon but by helping Israel’s Maronite Christian allies to come to power in Lebanon and then sign a peace treaty with Israel, then to expel the Syrian forces from Lebanon and to replace Syrian with Israeli hegemony in the Levant.

This war of deception ended in tears. It didn’t achieve any of its grandiose geopolitical objectives, and it ended also with the massacre in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila. There was an Israeli—there was an Israeli commission of inquiry which found Defense Minister Sharon as responsible for failing to prevent the massacre of the Palestinian refugees by Israel’s Christian allies, and Sharon was forced to step down—he was fired as minister of defense. And no one could have guessed at that time how a man who was found unfit to serve as minister of defense would bounce back as Israel’s prime minister.

But this is all of a piece in Sharon’s career as a soldier and as a politician, because, as Professor Khalidi pointed out, Sharon committed his first war crime as a young major in 1953 when he destroyed many houses in the Jordanian village of Qibya, and he was responsible for the massacre of 69 civilians. So that was his first war crime, but it was not to be his last. And the consistent thread in his career as a soldier and as a politician was to use brute force, not just against the regular armies of the Arab states, but also against Palestinian civilians. And the other consistent thread is to shun diplomacy and to rely on brute force to impose Israeli hegemony on the entire region. President George W. Bush famously called Sharon a man of peace. Sharon was nothing of the sort. He was a man of war through and through, and he called his autobiography Warrior, not Diplomat. His approach to diplomacy reversed Clausewitz’s dictum; for Sharon, diplomacy was the pursuit of war by other means. For the last 40 years, the Arab-Israeli conflict has been my main research interest, and I can honestly say that I have never come across a single scintilla of evidence to support the notion of Sharon as a man of peace.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to go back to 1982, the commission report you referred to, Avi Shlaim, and ask Noam Chomsky about the Kahan Commission and what it is they found, and how it is that Ariel Sharon actually survived politically beyond that.

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, the Kahan Commission did condemn Sharon for what they called "indirect responsibility" for Sabra-Shatila massacre. The Kahan Commission, I think, was really a whitewash. It tried to give as soft as possible an interpretation of what was in fact a horrifying massacre, actually one that should resonate with people who are familiar with Jewish history. It was almost a replica of the Kishinev massacre in pre-First World War Russia, one of the worst atrocities in Israeli memory, led to a famous nationalist poem by the main Israeli poet, Chaim Nahman Bialik, "City of Killing." The tsar’s army had surrounded this town and allowed the people within it to rampage, killing Jews for three days. They killed 45 people. That was—that’s pretty much what happened in Sabra-Shatila: Israeli army surrounded it, sent in the Phalangist forces, who were obviously bent on murder.

AMY GOODMAN: These were the Lebanese Christian forces.

NOAM CHOMSKY: Lebanese Christian terrorist force, allied with Israel. The soldiers watched as they illuminated it. They helped them enter. They watched for several days while they murdered, not 45 people, but somewhere—Israel claims 800, other analyses go up to several thousand. That’s the Sabra-Shatila massacre. The idea that Sharon had indirect—the tsar, incidentally, was bitterly condemned internationally for direct responsibility. That’s, in fact, one of the events that set off the huge flow of refugees from Eastern Europe, including my father, among others. But—so this was a kind of a replica, except far more brutal and vicious. And Sharon escaped more than a mild censure. It’s true that he was removed as defense minister, but it wasn’t long before he came back. And that’s one of a number of extremely shocking incidents in his career.

This piece was reprinted by Truthout with permission or license.

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

An excellent and timely piece ! Thanx Leo !!

Cross linking to flip's recent forum-post too :

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 3 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

Israel Lobby Takes Aim at Iran Deal

Saturday, 04 January 2014 12:05 By Paul R. Pillar, Consortium News | Op-Ed


Official Washington’s neocons are still trying to derail a negotiated settlement with Iran over its nuclear program by imposing new sanctions and thus putting the U.S. on a course for war – as favored by Israel’s Likud. But this reality is hiding behind sophistry, says ex-CIA analyst Paul R. Pillar.

Here’s a New Year’s resolution that participants in policy debate in Washington, and especially those in Congress, should make: be honest about your position on Iran. Say what you really want, and make your best arguments on behalf of what you really want, and don’t pretend to be working in favor of what you really are working against.

The main vehicle for debate about Iran once Congress reconvenes is a bill introduced by Senators Mark Kirk, R-Illinois, and Robert Menendez, D-New Jersey, that would threaten still more sanctions on Iran and purchasers of its oil, would impose unrealistic conditions to be met to avoid actually imposing the sanctions, and would explicitly give a green light to Israel to launch a war against Iran and to drag the United States into that war.

As Colin Kahl has explained in detail, passage of this legislation would be very damaging to the process of negotiating a final agreement with Iran to keep its nuclear program peaceful. The promoters of the legislation contend that its effect would be just the opposite, and would increase U.S. bargaining power and make it more likely Iran would make concessions we want.

It is possible that some members of Congress who might be inclined to vote for this bill, and even some who have signed on as co-sponsors, actually believe that contention. They keep hearing, after all, the trope about how “sanctions brought Iran to the table” and that if some sanctions are a good thing than even more sanctions are an even better thing.

But anyone who has thought seriously for more than a minute about this subject — as the chief promoters of the legislation surely have — realizes how fallacious that idea is. Whatever role sanctions may have had in getting Iran to the table, it is the prospect of getting sanctions removed, not having them forever increase, that will induce Iran, now that it is at the table, to complete an agreement placing severe restrictions on its nuclear program.

It goes against all logic and psychology to think that right after Iran has made most of the concessions necessary to conclude the preliminary Joint Plan of Action, “rewarding” it with more pressure and more punishment would put Iranians in the mood to make still more concessions.

The people doing the negotiating for the United States oppose the legislation because of the damage it would do to the negotiations. Their view is highly significant, no matter how much one might agree or disagree with whatever specific terms the administration is trying to get. If the legislation really would strengthen the U.S. negotiating position, any U.S. negotiator would welcome it.

And if that weren’t enough, counterparts to Kirk and Menendez in the Iranian legislature are providing further evidence of the destructive effect of what is transpiring on Capitol Hill, with the Iranian legislators’ bill calling for Iran to start enriching uranium to a level well beyond what it has ever done before if the United States imposes any new sanctions.

This is direct confirmation of how threats and hardline obstinacy, especially at this juncture, beget threats and hardline obstinacy from the other side. The Iranian bill also provides a real-life opportunity for some role reversal. Does this threat emanating from the Majlis make U.S. policy-makers more inclined to take a softer line and make more concessions? Of course not.

Kirk and Menendez are not dummies. They surely realize all this. Their legislation serves the purpose of those who want the negotiations with Iran to fail, not to succeed. Chief among those with this purpose is, of course, the right-wing Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu, who has made it abundantly clear that he opposes any agreement of any sort with Iran and will continue to do whatever he can to portray Iran as Satan incarnate and to keep it permanently ostracized.

The principal organization in Washington that serves the policy of Netanyahu’s government — i.e., AIPAC — also has its own reason to hammer away forever at the Iranian bogeyman: it’s “good for business,” as a former senior AIPAC executive explained. It is no accident that Mark Kirk is easily the biggest congressional recipient of AIPAC funds, and Robert Menendez is also among the top half dozen recipients.

Honesty would mean dispensing with the phony issue of whether more sanctions now would help negotiate a better agreement — since they clearly would not — and instead posing the real issue: whether it is in the interests of the United States for the negotiations with Iran to succeed or to fail. That issue can be debated according to several criteria.

One concerns the objective of preventing an Iranian nuclear weapon: is that objective more obtainable through a negotiated agreement that imposes major new restrictions and intensified international monitoring on Iran’s nuclear program, or through continued confrontation that offers neither of those things?

A second set of criteria concerns which path is more likely to avoid the danger of a new war — supplemented by discussion of the impact of a new war on U.S. interests. Another criterion concerns whether broader U.S. policy in the Middle East is better served by the United States having the flexibility to conduct its own diplomacy with anyone in the region on a case-by-case, issue-by-issue basis, or by being locked into hostility insisted on by third parties.

All of this should be debated from the standpoint of U.S. interests. Those with a special concern for Israel can also ask parallel questions, such as whether Israeli interests are better served by an unending relationship of hostility with another major state in the region, with threats and hatred being perpetually flung by each side at the other, or by following a different path.

Let such an honest debate begin. But an honest debate will barely get off the ground unless we discard the nonsense about how something like the Kirk-Menendez bill supposedly aids negotiations.

This piece was reprinted by Truthout with permission or license.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

I couldn't face this on 'truth-out' but I read it here !!! Depressing !! But thanx Leo & 'HNY 4 2014@U' & fyi:

multum in parvo ...

[-] 3 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

Israeli Actors Sit Out Show at Settlement Theater

Israeli actors refuse to perform show at theater in West Bank settlement

By Aron Heller, Associated Press5 hours ago


JERUSALEM (AP) -- A trio of Israeli stage actors is refusing to perform in an acclaimed play before a theater in a West Bank Jewish settlement, part of a burgeoning domestic movement against the government's settlement policies.

The protest mirrors a global movement against the settlements that has put Israel's government in an increasingly difficult situation as the current round of peace talks with the Palestinians continues. The international community, including the U.S., has long considered Israeli construction of homes for Jews in the West Bank, captured territory claimed by the Palestinians, as an obstacle to peace. This sentiment, long held also by Israel's dovish left, now appears to be gaining steam at home following a string of harsh global condemnations of settlement construction in recent months. Some on Israel's left fear the scale of the settlements soon will pass the tipping point where a pullout may become too difficult, and Israel will be forced to essentially absorb the West Bank and its millions of Palestinians.

In a joint statement, the Cameri and Beit Lessin theaters said that three cast members in their production of "Best Friends" had asked to be excused from performing at the cultural center in Ariel, a settlement built deep inside the West Bank. It said they were granted exemptions and will be replaced by alternates, allowing the show to go on.

One of the actresses, Sarit Vino-Elad, said she could not bring herself to step foot in a theater built on occupied land and which posed an obstacle to peace with Palestinians.

"This is not a boycott. It's my own little protest against a government policy that continues to build settlements," she told The Associated Press. "They are trying to make Ariel part of the consensus, but as far as I am concerned it is not legitimate. You want me to perform there? Solve the problem."

Israel is particularly sensitive to such sentiments as it is constantly battling against international efforts to impose economic, cultural and academic boycotts upon it over the settlements. Defenders of Israel say it is a victim of orchestrated campaigns to delegitimize it and hold it to a double standard over its policies.

But such arguments seem to be facing an uphill struggle. Last week, the American Studies Association, a 3,800-member group of American scholars, endorsed a boycott of Israeli universities. Previously, the Dutch water company Vitens, the largest supplier of drinking water in the Netherlands, decided to cut ties with Israel's national water carrier over its operations in West Bank settlements. The European Union recently forced Israel to make guarantees that special European research funds would not be spent in the settlements. The EU is also considering measures to clearly label products made in the settlements, a move that could harm sales. Lately, Israeli settlements are also coming under increasing scrutiny at home.

Israelis who once considered the West Bank inseparable from the rest of the country, or at least shrugged off the settlements as insignificant, have begun to protest the large government budgets promoting West Bank construction instead of solving a dire housing crisis plaguing the rest of the country. Others refuse to purchase settlement goods or perform reserve military guard duty in the West Bank.

For years, the Palestinians refused to negotiate with Israel while settlement construction continued, saying it was a sign of bad faith. Under heavy U.S. pressure, the Palestinians reluctantly resumed negotiations last summer, under U.S. mediation, with an April target date for agreement.

The Palestinians seek the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem, all captured by Israel in 1967, for their state. Israel pulled troops and settlers out of Gaza in 2005 and it is now ruled by the Islamic militant Hamas. East Jerusalem, with its sites holy to Muslims, Christians and Jews, has been annexed by Israel. The West Bank, despite the fact that Israel builds towns there, has not. More than 550,000 Israelis now live in areas captured in 1967, amid roughly 2.5 million Palestinians. The Palestinians complain that the growing settler population makes it ever more difficult to partition the land.

The settlement of Ariel is a particular stumbling block. An enclave of nearly 20,000 people is one of the largest settlements, and its defenders say most Israelis want the settlement to be annexed to Israel in any future peace deal. But it is located well inside the West Bank, meaning no minor border adjustment as part of a peace deal could leave it on the Israeli side. Hawkish Cabinet ministers angrily have denounced the protesters and threatened to strip their government subsidies.

In 2010, Ariel inaugurated a glitzy $11 million performing arts center that immediately sparked an artists' boycott.

Vino-Elad said her colleagues have preferred to stay quiet with their stance for fear of political backlash — but she could not. "We don't want to create world wars here, we want to make theater," she said.

The Cameri theater said it was committed to staging the show in Ariel but that it would respect the political positions of its artists.

"The theater does not force its actors to perform in Ariel. Those who are not interested are replaced by their colleagues," it said in the statement. "The Cameri theater chose to allow its actors to exercise their freedom of expression and follow their conscience."

Culture Minister Limor Livnat criticized those artists that "boycott Israeli citizens because of where they live."

Ariel Turjeman, the director of the Ariel theater, played down the protest, saying the actors who refused to perform in the West Bank were a tiny number compared to the thousands who did. He said the theater purchased a play, not an actor, and that the move is little more than a publicity stunt.

"Those who don't want to come don't have to," he said. "If Ariel makes them uncomfortable, they can stay home. And to be honest, we don't want those who don't want to come here."

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23790) 10 years ago

People turned their heads to segregation in the U.S. and South Africa for decades, and during the Holocaust and now do so with regard to the Palestinians. It's nothing new really, just plain ignorance and selfishness, but the tide will turn, it always does eventually.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Yes, I agree & don't forget Australia :

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

Please Shadz, John Pilger is a cherry-picking hanger-on.

His "take" on indigenous Australia is shallow, and alarmist.

Look up "pilgerism". There's a word coined just to describe his work.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

"Palestine is Still the Issue" was an important doc. by John Pilger & so please, later try to consider :

His 1989 book ''A Secret Country'' (a follow on from his 1985 doc. about 'First Australians') was recently gifted to me by my better half ; I went to the global premier with his 'Q&A' afterwards, of his ''Cambodia, Year Ten'' doc; I bumped into him on a London street as I was going for an interview for a job in TV post-production (& got the job) and have been watching his documentaries since I was a child. On Thursday, 19th Dec. I watched ''Utopia''[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht8_5UlcgSQ ], about the very subject matter of my link to bw, above. I really like his work and the neologism to which you refer was coined by an arch British Conservative who didn't like Pilger's journalism. Here is another example of JP's work :

As you can see 'B' ... I'm a BIG fan but we can agree to disagree mate and a lot of Aussies seem to not find him 'easy viewing' & so best wishes of the season (your high summer) to you & yours & onyer m8 !!

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

He undoubtedly has an impressive resume.

It's wrong of me to critique a film, or the contents thereof, without first sampling it at least.

Having worked myself on several Indigenous communities over the years, I agree that there are problems, but focussing upon the very worst of the worst, which the recent govt "intervention" program, and presumably John's film have done, I can say one thing for certain; generalisations are reliably wrong.

There are many success stories in the greater indigenous population, and unfortunately these get little airtime, simply because there's no "value" to sensationalist media hawkers to focus upon.

Inner-city enclaves, like Sydney's Redfern population, have created and nurtured an "us" and "them" situation that is simply not mirrored in "real" life out there in the actual indigenous Australia.

Which raises another point; there actually is no cohesive Aboriginal Nation. It's a myth created by those who have made a life out of playing the bleeding heart. Our friend John would be well aware of this myth, and he is rather clever at promoting, and profitting from it.

Hundreds of individual tribes make up our Aboriginal Australia. I can show you the map, if you are interested. Some of these tribes have a history of amicable association, but many of them have been at war for so long, they don't remember what started it.

The govt's intervention (read child safety) program deepened this tribal divide, simply because everyone got tarred with the same brush, rather than being looked upon as the individuals that they are.

Season's greetings to you and yours, Shadz. Hope you have a happy and safe Christmas. :-)

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

I am not qualified to disagree with you but I've a huge problem with ''The govt's intervention (read child safety)'' - although I may have misunderstood what you are saying. Of course 'First Aussies' (like 'First Americans') were not a homogenous whole ... it's a massive place & they had a myriad languages and rich cultures but I do think we can safely say that they & their cultures have now been decimated in the last 250 years and that how they were / are treated is really VERY under-reported. I have been following John Pilger's work for a long time and he has been pretty consistent & ''Utopia'' is out in Aus in January, I believe.Have a bonzer Chrimbo too 'B' & fyi : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36877.htm

pacem in terris ...

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

The intervention was purportedly all about removal of at-risk children from sexual or other forms of abuse. Children, and even babies, were presenting at town clinics with STDs, and children themselves were engaging in sexual activity with other children. These are the facts that were used to initiate what is now being called "the second stolen generation".

Truth is, we are all subject to the same legislation, and it is actually a crime for health professionals and education employees, to NOT report suspected child abuse. But at the time of introduction of the "intervention", the federal govt was fast losing political pace, and needed to be seen to do "something" about the problems, because of an expose by popular current affairs program, Four Corners. It's not like the govt would not have been aware of an imminent problem on some communities, unless they were wilfully ignoring their own departments, but they were cashing in on a sensationalist issue that had grabbed the unaware city dweller's sympathies.

Having skimmed your link, Shadz, John made sweeping generalisations about a lot of the issues I broached in my previous comment. Communities that host any kind of mining, receive "royalties" that are paid quarterly to each man, woman, and child. Having witnessed the phenomenon of these "paydays" in a few communities in the East Arnhem region, there seems to be a race to be the first to spend the cash, and there is a constant stream of taxis running back and forth between the community, and the nearest town, where the bulk of this easy money (seven grand each) gets spent on vehicles, drugs, alcohol, pornography, and electrical equipment.

The pornography has been blamed by many elders for the chronic sexual misconduct. Many remote communities were the first to receive hi-speed satellite broadband, so again, easy access to pornography has created a mindset that all forms of sexuality, even bestiality, are somehow "normal".

On the topic of apartheid, I see it as actually being reverse apartheid, wherein people who wish to remain on their tribal lands, are supported in that aim. Communities have a dole office, school, clinic, shop, sporting facilities, internet access, and free dental. With no actual job prospects, a program called CDEP or Community Development Employment Program was initiated, which is akin to working for the dole. Course instructors ( I was one of these) are sent to remote communities to train/assess people, to upskill them for admin or construction roles. It's not a perfect system, but when people don't want to integrate into the wider society, what else could be offered?

As for self-determination, Mr. Pilger neglected to mention that ATSIC (Aboriginal & Torres Strait Indigenous Council) was in place for about a decade, but the outcome was one of most corrupted groups in the history of politics in the nation. To put it bluntly, it was such a sham, that the people themselves milked, with full knowledge that heads would roll. Electioneering meant delivering pallets of beer, and buying favourites a new SUV or Troop carrier. Votes were often burned, immediately after the count.

John also rubbishes Twiggy Forest, who has instigated many successful pilot programs in creating training and employment for indigenous people. It's up to the people whether they take advantage of what is on offer, and many do. A visit to the Pilbara region, and Tom Price township in particular, shows the success story of Twiggy's efforts.

But focussing upon these positives does not support John's raison d'etre. In fact, John doesn't ever mention the Kimberley region, probably because of the many success stories up that way. I lived there for two years. Most of our "clientelle" were indigenous tradespeople, building new housing for the local indigenous population.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, things aren't always what they seem to be.

But it's a myth that indigenous people are treated worse than other Australians. If anything, they are granted more services, at no cost, and I don't personally believe that it is a good thing at all.

A cargo cult mentality has resulted, and certain elders, like Frank Dodson, have addressed this issue, and attempted to shame his fellow countrymen into having some pride about them.

But now I'm generalising, because many of my trainees and others I've come into contact with through my travels, are making a go of their lives, and are sad for those who try to drag them down to their level.

Granted, there's varying levels of racism within this nation, as undoubtedly there are in many other Antipodean enclaves, but to say that our indigenous people are being neglected, is to promote a lie.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

I have to admit that I am replying to you without having read your reply because I have to be elsewhere right now BUT I promise to read it and revert to you as best I can later but please can I humbly request that you watch ''Utopia'' in Aus next month :

I'm good for my word and will try to read and reply before Chrimbo and once again, 'ave a good 'un mate.

pax ...

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

There can be no questioning your personal experience or knowledge and thanx much for your reply and comment. I think that there are reasons why people like John Pilger are so maligned and those revolve around the fact they can make people think deep and hard things and try to face hard facts sometimes.

For example, a view of the way Native Americans are treated is this : ''Yes, we wronged you in the past. We made up for it by giving you land and education and whatever. You don't make good use of what we gave you. So fuck off. We hate your guts now because you make us feel bad. Forget about the culture that was lost and the languages and the spirituality torn from you. Or worse - we the colonising powers that be, are just so fucking greedy and selfish that we really do not care, so just stay out of our fucking hair. You native people are losers ... just like those damn Palestinians, for not taking the scraps and for not forming a modern nation and being grateful for your allocated lot in life.''

Is it ''a myth that indigenous people are treated worse than other Australians'' ? And is it a lie ...''to say that (y)our indigenous people are being neglected'' ? The people themselves may feel like they belong to the land where they've been for ~40-50k years. Average male life expectancy for 'First Australians' is 45. Their levels of incarceration in Western Australia is beyond belief & only The Prison Industry is profiting there. Things are far from peachy elsewhere too. Finally, all chronologically written by you know who :

No offence meant 'B'. You know me well enough to not be too surprised at my response and I will leave you, again sincerely wishing you and yours all the very best for Chrimbo, Yule and the New Year, with :

"To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never to forget." (Arundhati Roy)

pax et lux ; nunc et semper ; hic et ubique ...

[+] -4 points by moiat (5) from North Bergen, NJ 10 years ago

shadz66 loves crackpot conspiracy theorists like John Pilger. You won't change his mind. He likes narratives built on fantasy. Personally, I think conspiracy theorists are the most dangerous people right now. I fear them more than the 1%. They confuse people and keep the masses in a blur between reality and fiction. So many people run after ghosts when we should be solving the very real problems in our real world. We don't have time for fantasy at this juncture in human history.

I mean, shadz66 is a fan of Alex Jones and David Icke. They are the brightest colours in his thinking patterns.

911, chemtrails, reptilian overlords... he's into all that stuff.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

More 'Trashy' blah ; Blah ; BLAH !!! Worra feckin' eedjut !! And a narcissist to boot !

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 years ago

8 Mile, isn't just a movie.

The importance of events in Detroit cannot be overstated.

[-] 3 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 10 years ago

Jill is on point. Its why Obama and Romney shut her out of the debates.

She would have verbally shredded them to the point where no one would have voted for either one of em. Its not hard, the corruption is in broad daylight.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Yep, ''the corruption is in broad daylight'' as well as in the shadows & re. the forum-post, I append and recommend fyi :

''Ambassador Indyk is problematic as a mediator for the Israel-Palestine talks not only because of his clearly established pro-Israel bias, but also because he has already failed at similar peace negotiations during the Clinton administration.

''Indyk’s ties to Israel run deep. He explains in his book, "I was first drawn to the Middle East through my Jewish identity and connection to Israel.” Originally an Australian citizen, Indyk studied in Israel during the 1973 Arab-Israeli War and volunteered in Israel’s war efforts. In a 2009 speech, Indyk explains that during this time, he was so convinced of the United States’ essential role in bringing peace to Israel that he chose to “make aliyah” to Washington and become a United States citizen (the term “aliyah” usually refers to diaspora Jews immigrating to Israel). He later became the deputy research director of American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and co-founded the AIPAC-linked Washington Institute for Near East Policy “with support from the pro-Israel community," according to his own book.

''Indyk was heavily involved in Clinton administration's policy towards the Middle East, rising to become the U.S. Ambassador to Israel from April 1995 to September 1997 and also from January 2000 to July 2001. He was a key player in the failed negotiations at Camp David in 2000.

''Indyk’s prominent role in the Clinton administration’s unsuccessful Israel-Palestine policy is even more troubling than his demonstrated pro-Israel bias. He is an old-timer, a member of a diplomatic generation that has already been given the opportunity to advance the Middle East peace process and has failed.''

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

Memo to Media: Israeli Settlement Expansion Is Not All About the United States Thursday, 09 January 2014 00:00 By Justin Doolittle, Truthout | Op-Ed


Israel's decision to wait until Secretary of State John Kerry left the region before announcing it will pursue settlement expansion in the West Bank grabbed the headlines. It's the existence of the settlements, not the timing of the announcement, which should concern the media.

The Israeli government, in its boundless benevolence, has decided to wait until Secretary of State John Kerry leaves the region before officially announcing plans to pursue more illegal settlement expansion in the West Bank. "We will respect John Kerry and not act to spite him," an anonymous Israeli official told The New York Times last week. The precise timing of Israel's announcements of imperialist intent has become its own little phenomenon in recent years; the Obama administration reportedly was furious when, in 2010, Israel announced new building plans while Vice President Joe Biden was visiting the country. Media outlets such as the Times report breathlessly on this diplomatic drama; the substance of what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is now almost secondary to the crucial point of whether it is announced on Day X or Day Y and, accordingly, whether or not any high-ranking American officials' feelings are hurt.

It would be difficult to identify another matter that more clearly illustrates the news media's essential superficiality and its subtle allegiance to a framework in which the concerns of the US and Israeli governments distinctly outweigh those of the Palestinians. In a serious media culture, coverage of the "timing" of these announcements and the delicate sensibilities of US officials would be limited to a sentence or two in broader news reports. This recent phony gesture of goodwill by the Netanyahu government, though, was apparently deserving of a full article, landing on Page A6 of the January 2, 2014, edition of The New York Times.

Consider the title of a July 2012 Times editorial on Israeli settlements and how they tangibly harm the prospects for peace: "Wrong Time for New Settlements" - which directly implies that there is a "right" time for new settlements, that some times are better than others. This kind of twisted analysis and fraudulent dissent evokes memories of "opposition" to the criminally insane American invasion of Iraq, which was based not on principle but, rather, on the grounds that it was an unfortunate geopolitical "mistake" and "poor strategy" given the demands of the ongoing war in Afghanistan. At issue here is a policy of relentless Jewish expansion into Palestinian land, which most of the world considers illegal and which continues to stand as the central obstacle to any realistic drive for peace. Everything else is noise.

Israel's brutal occupation of the West Bank soon will reach its 50th year. By now, even casual followers of international affairs understand the stakes involved in this conflict, its incalculable human toll and how it infuses Middle Eastern politics with bottomless hatred and division. This wholly bizarre fascination with the timing of Israel's settlement announcements and the attendant, ultimately meaningless vicissitudes in US-Israeli power dynamics reduces the most consequential conflict in the world to a juicy diplomatic gossip story between the very powerful leaders of two very powerful states.

Israeli officials, of course, are primarily concerned not with how settlement expansion uproots Palestinian lives or intensifies the conflict but rather with the possibility that it might anger the bosses in Washington. In a comical bit of "dissent" after Israel published bids for another round of housing units last summer, Netanyahu ally Yahir Lipid expressed concern - "rightly" according to the Times - that the move "needlessly challenged the Americans." As always, it's all about the Americans. Pursue policies that destroy the lives of the most vulnerable stateless population on Earth, and worry only about how it affects the most powerful government in the history of the world, which also happens to be an unconditional ally. This is the height of derangement.

As Noam Chomsky has said, to even grant that "expansion" of settlements is the core issue is to give the game away, because the heart of the matter is the existence of the settlements. In other words, the framework for how this is discussed in the media continues to shift in ways that benefit Israel. So, first, instead of arguing the existence of the settlements, the debate becomes about their expansion only. Now, instead of expansion, the story is about which precise day Israel will announce its plans for expansion, as if this has any serious relevance to anyone (the aforementioned anonymous Israeli official told the Times, quite rightly, that "a day here or there makes no difference"). In a few years, perhaps, the question will be about whether or not Israel should bulldoze Palestinian homes at literally the exact date and time that the latest round of so-called "peace talks" are set to begin. We can lament the timing if it's "wrong" and praise the Israelis if they have the generosity to only fire up the bulldozers when the time is right.

Of all the aspects that factor into how the gravely serious Israeli-Palestinian conflict ultimately will be resolved - if it will be - none are more trivial than the timing of Israel's imperialist announcements and the personal feelings of people like Barack Obama, Joe Biden and John Kerry. The settlements, which doubtless will continue unabated even as the "peace process" allegedly gains momentum, are morally reprehensible, legally baseless and politically disastrous. This is true regardless of when they are announced or whom their announcement offends. To frame this issue any other way is to deliberately lose the plot.

Copyright, Truthout.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

Our corrupt relationship with Israel is one of the biggest obstacles to peace in the Middle East

It should be our goal to "bring [not only] America's Middle East policy into alignment with American values," but also to bring all our foreign policy into alignment with our values.


[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

It should never be forgotten that some of THE most vociferous opponents and critics of the Israeli position vis a' vis Palestine are Jewish people, both religious and secular. In this tradition, I append : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35685.htm & may love, light and logic come to pass.

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

Yes I knew that while AIPAC has been quite successful in stifling the Israeli/Palestinian discussion in this country that... that was not the case in Israel where the parameters of independent thought concerning this subject are much wider. Even so there are healthy cracks beginning to show up here... with columnists Jeff Goldberg of the Atlantic magazine, and Thomas Friedman of the Times speaking out against the hardline Israeli policies in regard to the Palestinians...and they paid a heavy price for speaking their mind, having been harshly citicized by supporters of the Right-wing Likud party...the Zionist. And in some cases they have been branded as being a "self-hating Jew"



My education to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict began for the most part in the late 70s when we met a young free spirited couple in Vermont who chose to follow their conscience...convictions rather than cash in on their educations and privleged upbringing. They were very empathetic to the Palestinian' plight. He had been a professor and she was a mid-wife in Ramallah on the West Bank. While in Vermont visiting family for an extended period of time, they did most of their shopping in second-hand stores, to the chagrin of her Mom & Dad...lol.. who had a beautiful vacation home there. Both of their parents had been diplomats in different countries in Europe where they had spent many of their childhood years. I remember them giving my daughter ...who is the mother to my granddaughter now...and who was in pre-school with their daughter a tee shirt which in green and red (Palestinian colors) lettering in Arabic said, "I Love You." Who would have thought shadz, all these years later how their courage for doing what is right would mean so much to me...especially now...

Just before leaving Vermont on an early morning train for Washington from Bellows Falls VT, where I drove them to, they invited us to visit them in Paris where they were going to live. He had gotten a job (if I remember correctly) translating and reporting back to the French government radio programs from other countries which commented on French foreign policy.

Well, not long after... we did indeed visit them in Paris, taking the Hover Craft to France after visiting my ex-wife's family in Exmouth and Exeter. They were a bit worried when we came as they did not have the time to entertain us because they were preparing to leave and return to their lives in Ramallah. But, they were very relieved when I assured them that we were self-entertaining, and that all they needed to do was point our noses toward the Metro and Eiffel Tower. Then in the evening we shared good conversation, viddles & wine which we had all picked up at markets during the day.

Although, at no time in my life would I have considered myself a yahoo, I was more than a bit unsophisicated compared to most of you Europeans. That being so and having always posessed the ability to laugh at myself, I can relate to Clark very well in European Vacation which has always been one of my favorite silly movies



[-] 6 points by Renneye (3874) 10 years ago

Here's a personal account, you may like, from Miko Peled...an Israeli General's son.

The beginning is historical fact, stripped of myth, in which one gets an understanding for his willingness to tell his story from a 'raw truth', rarely seen or even allowed. His personal story starts 26 minutes in...poignantly told, of his family's life woven into the sorrow filled Israeli Palestinian tapestry.


[-] 5 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

The account by the mother of the girl who was killed was telling, sad and beautiful. So many people in her position would have wanted revenge, but she had the intelligence and compassion to understand the bigger picture

It is encouraging to see people get together from both the Palestinian and Israeli communities in a quest for peace

I do wish more people could view your link in its entirety. Thank You Renny


[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Well Odin, that was an exceptionally strong link from Renneye and I concur wholeheartedly with your entire comment and your last line in particular. Further, I wish that : a) you were still on this forum ; b) you and your loved ones well & c) that you can find time to watch the following - which I append for the standing record for us all here, for future reference and with a very strong recommendation :

History as we know, has always been written by the victors but that doesn't mean it has to be so in this day and age of t'interweb. These are difficult times we're living in and I find my thoughts turning towards as to why you have been banned, with an undue frequency and it is leaving a bitter taste in my mouth.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by StanGarrit (2) 10 years ago

What happened to Odin? I know him from the NYC Occupy events. He was a regular. He pointed me to this site. One of the nicest and most dedicated occupiers I met. Is he OK?

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

If what you say were true, then you would not know him as ''Odin'' but by his real name. He is taking a sabbatical it seems and I'm sure that he's fine, in so far as you're really inTeresTed. Me thinx that you are here to mix it for your own reasons, whoever you may really be however on the chance you're half genuine, as per the OP, you may be half interested enough to comment on the following :

''Building thousands more settlement units all over the West Bank and East Jerusalem is in no way comparable or proportionate to the release of Palestinian prisoners. The construction of more settlements is equivalent to the annihilation of a two-state solution and the pre-emption of any kind of faith-building measures.''

fiat lux, fiat justitia, fiat pax ...


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 years ago

Tom Friedman.

Libe(R)tarian extraordinaire.

Leading the World to libe(R)topia.


[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

I'm fully aware of Friedamn's NOT so ilustrious backgroud on economic issues, but in speaking out against Israel's RIGHT WING LIKUD PARTY, he as well as Jeff Goldberg show real courage


I get it though, anyone who is not a partisan Democrat is branded by you as being a libeRtopian


[-] -2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 years ago

Hmmmmm, interesting.

A fairly thorough search could find no insight from you on Friedman..

In fact very little input from you on libe(R)tarianism in general.

Care to expound on your awareness?

I do like your "Freudian" slip though.."Freidamn".

At this point he is just espousing the usual isolationism of the libe(R)tarian wing, not at all unlike Ron Paul.

Indeed, a further search of the provided website, finds there are those almost begging for intervention..


Now go ahead and accuse me of something else.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

When's the last time you left Detroit shooz?....lol

I mean look who's "accus[ing]" me of being an 'accuser'....why it's Mr. Red Baiter himself


[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 10 years ago

last time I went someplace else, why? lol

Where did I accuse you of anything? I just asked for clarification of your "awareness" of Friedman.

As for your accusation of "red baiting"?

That's the silliest assumption you've made yet.

I will have to accept that you have no sense of humor.

You are basing this on a handful of posts I made, quite some time ago, where I referred to the GOP as reds, because RED is the color of their States.

You should learn to less assumptive.

[-] 2 points by NVPHIL (664) 11 years ago

Great post.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thanx 'NVPHL' and also for consideration : NBC's 'Meet the Press' interview showcased how effectively the Israeli PM has made Iran the sole focus of US Middle East policy :

The interview above is analysed in : "Binyamin Netanyahu's Iran Strategy Erases the Palestinian Problem", by Chris McGreal :

"When the Israeli prime minister was last in Washington, there was barely a mention of the Palestinians after his meeting with Obama. And barely a word was breathed about the Palestinians at this year's meeting of the most influential of the pro-Israel lobby groups in Washington, American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac). The focus was firmly on Iran."

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by Ache4Change (3340) 11 years ago

I love Jill Stein and I agree with your comment. Given the current situation in Gaza and searching for 'Palestine' here this morning, this post really stood out, so I hope others too will read and reflect upon the post, thread and links here. Peace.

[-] 2 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 11 years ago

She's got my vote

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Consider : "President Jill Stein ?", by Carl Gibson :

"It's estimated that both President Obama and Mitt Romney will draw out anywhere between 45 and 60 million apiece in November, according to 2008 turnout numbers. But according to one USA Today poll, an estimated 90 million people who could vote this year probably won't, as they're disappointed in both candidates and major political parties. What if just two-thirds of those 90 million people turned out for a candidate with a truly bold vision, who isn't beholden to corporate donors or bought party elites ? It would be a colossal upset for the establishment, and a big win for citizens."

dum spiro, spero ...

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3874) 11 years ago

Wonderful post Shadz!! Thank you. Prepare for the reactionism...you anti-S----e you!! ^.~

Peace and solidarity to ALL of humanity!!

A quick picture that tells a portion of this story...


[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

I really do not think that this 'forum-post' deserves any 'reactionary' responses at all but p'raps I ought to prepare for such reactions in the event that I'm accused with that rather unpleasant word that you allude to. I believe in 'The One Democratic State Solution' as a basis for a true, just and enduring peace for all and I will argue my point accordingly and utterly resist any 'coercive attempts' to stifle and deny debate.

fiat justitia ...

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3874) 11 years ago

You're right of course...it doesn't deserve it. The thread has been up for a full day now, and from what I see...so far, so good! Perhaps I judged too soon!

The truth of the Israel/Palestine tragedy is known by few in the general public...and I give you credit for speaking to it in this very diplomatic thread.

Peace...to all.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Sometimes 'diplomacy' has its plus points especially if "Jaw Jaw" is to prevail over "War War" & thus :

fiat pax ...

[-] 5 points by Renneye (3874) 11 years ago

Giggles!! I admit I had to look up Jaw Jaw over War War...and couldn't help but chuckle when picturing Churchill using the term.

I'm in full-on music mode these days...so thanks for the lovely song. Music speaks to everyone...and this one more than most. Who doesn't pause for thought when they hear it?!


[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Yes but I was trying to keep a veil over the 'Churchill' connection, lol ! Also 'fyi' :

An award winning documentary by James Miller { http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Miller_(filmmaker) } about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and a 'must watch'. Finally, the thread that you link to is a veritable 'Juke Box' and is recommended to all readers and music lovers.

fiat lux ...

[-] 6 points by Renneye (3874) 11 years ago

Thanks for the great link Shadz. It was heart-wrenching...but I watched it.

I think, that the majority of the global leaders...are stark raving mad.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 7 years ago

A Victory for Palestine: "U.S. Abstains as U.N. Security Council Votes to Condemn Israeli Settlements"


"Applause broke out in the 15-member Security Council’s chambers following the vote on the measure, which passed 14-0, with the United States abstaining."

Late, but better than nothing.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

It's rather obvious that the community standard against obscenity has prevailed. It may well be short lived because the yuuge orange carrot will be shoving soon with the Juden rep and even contemplating moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem as if the U.S. can afford more gasoline to pour there.

Pouring gasoline on the fire makes a great bonfire. "Campfire's burning, campfire's burning. Draw nearer, draw nearer. In the flareup, in the flareup, let's burn off eyebrows." We'll look a bit like a neonate with no eyebrows.

Intifada is probably not in the carrot's vocabulary. Ariel Sharon surely knew how to fry Israel himself, by touching off another intifada by "visiting" the Temple Mount against nearly all sane ones' advice. Democratic election for Gaza City(Israel is Not the only democracy there, contrary to Israeli propaganda) put Hamas into power, with rockets to fire at Israel, which had made its very own torture chamber for itself alright.

The yuuge orange carrot suffers from a form of psychosis, due to the inability to distinguish Jerusalem from the figurative New Jerusalem. The Will destroyed Jerusalem so that a new one can figuratively descend from up on high to set upon the foundation of the ruined Old Temple. Look for the Abomination there in the lunatic asylum first.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23790) 7 years ago

Moving the US embassy to Jerusalem would destroy Palestine’s hopes of justice


Which is exactly why he'll likely do it.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

美国 唯恐《中东》不乱。不乱《犹太》就不能涡水摸鱼。 carpe penicillo latrina

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

Consider - ''Israel's Never-ending Crimes: It's Not Just Settlements'' - by Stanley L Cohen:

From the ICH link .... ''Make no mistake about it, the sum total of Israel's efforts these past 68 years is nothing short of the deliberate infliction upon Palestinians, as a cognizable group, conditions of life and death calculated to bring about their physical destruction in whole or in part.

And ''In the presence of overwhelming evidence of premeditated Israeli genocide, to argue otherwise is to reduce the dark, evil and systematic deeds of Stalin, Kissinger, Pol Pot and the Hutu state to little more than a collection of misunderstood happenstance.''

Dare you to read & digest that article and/or watch that video by the ever excellent Abby Martin, grapes or you could simply read:

here I'm now missing shooz, ZD & GF; erstwhile ''DNC/Likud Faction'', who'd get animated over that link!

fiat justitia ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Israel has been a fundamentally hypocritical state so it is cursed, by the Jews' own Holy Book(Old Testament Isaiah 5:8 "Woe to you who add house to house and join field to field till no space is left and you live alone in the land."). Israel=Jewish secular state is plainly a contradiction created to fool ignorant people who don't know what 'Jewish' and 'secular' really mean. Israel lives a lie.

'Jewish' means adherence to Judaism, a religion with a very strict code of admission and membership(essentially via 》Sippe und Heirat《) while 'secular' means 'not pertaining to religion.' How can Israel be singly Jew-religious and irreligious at the same time and still be secure in the land of Arabs? It's possible only in the minds of our abundantly plentiful vegetables of all kinds, including the yuuge orange carrot soon to be shoving (i.e., 》der Welt zu schaffen machen《).

Post-WWII Germany understood the meaning of this song. So did Japan but not Russia. I'm surprised at this though (unless Russia is always somehow retarded, perhaps due to its distinctive alphabets?) because Russia's Catherine the Great and Prussia had shared in the annexation of Poland with each other and both lands went through much hell on Earth with all of the ensuing wars, as cursed by Isaiah 5:8. Nor do China, Iran, and DPRK understand.

Israel needs to go through what Germany and Japan had gone through to learn - having the Jewish mothers driven by cold and hunger to prostitute themselves to feed their children, with the men, gone... . War ashes to flowers, from Here to Eternity.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

I am not sure what Russia's Greek based Cyrillic Alphabet has to do with anything and Russians, are anything but "retarded" and furthermore, I think you'll find Catherine The Great was German! Your ''lex talionis'' critique of Israel seems harsh & rooted in the Bible somehow but wasn't it all that Abrahamic Mumbo-Jumbo that lead to all this shit? Who knew Joan Baez sang ''WHATFG'' -in German too? Not me! Isrl/Palstn Solutn: One Person; One Vote; One State? Happy New Year to U & yours grapes + :

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Happy New Year!

Haven't the Silent Majority of Russia, Germany, Poland, etc. suffered enough from all of these stupid wars already? I call Russia retarded because its memories of its Great Patriotic War seemed to have been lost from its people. Here's what we have to remind the Russian people: The Unknown War. This documentary series was made with the cooperation of the former Soviet Union.

When watching, remind yourselves that all of those ruins in the backgrounds were lives, corpses, houses, memories, letters, photographs, voice recordings, phonograph machines, children's toys, rainbow-colored slipper, shell, stone, spam-key treasure stashes etc. Read between the lines.

Hear not the booms of the big guns, the glorifying music, but the wailings of despair over a dead child. See what's not shown: the breastpocket billfold of a dead soldier, 》Vergissmeinnicht(der Bläuling fliegt nie zurück)《, family photographs of babies, wife, birthday cakes with candles being cut; see the rats gnawing on the dead or alive babies' fingers, maggots by the thousands worming around and flies swarming over the dead bodies(of rats, humans, dogs, cats, and beloved pets, etc.), soldiers taking forced (or rarely paid-for) "comfort" with the mothers and daughters, playing with cutoff women's nipples like shortie little boys playing with their left-at-home marbles, skewering fetuses from pregnant women's wombs with bayonets high up into the air killing women and their babies because the women had not bowed down enough over their bulging bellies to show respect, tying little bells to young women's nipples, stripping them naked, and making them prance around to entertain the troops. Hello, this is Not a llama farm celebrating a festival with llama earrings in the Andes of the Incas. The Andes are better and taller andro "fingers" and "ranges" than my "unicorn" which had cradled and shielded me from mother Nature. Beware of the plumpy pinky-faced ones of Leningrad, they eat people (under German siege).

Hear the sounds of rapes, the grunting swines, the heavy breathings and sweatings, the utter despair and helplessness mixed in with the primal ecstasy, the sooty smell of ashes, acrid smoke, salty and wet tears, metallic taste of blood, etc. What tastes and smells are the bodily fluids oozing from the wounds and orifices? What do the screams do to the nearby family members, relatives, and children psychologically, and traumas to the victims longterm with flashbacks and recoils from their intimate partners? ... All for what? Education for "the Chosen People," "the Mistress Race," or "the Black Aryans in High-Security Castles?"

Why did Russia annex Crimea and infiltrate and instigate Ukraine in defiance of international agreements, such as Budapest and Westphalia? Haven't the Russian people had enough war damages and sufferings already? "Boys will be boys" so let Pootin the Great and Yuuge Orange Carrot have a cowboy-style shootout instead (of wars) in the aptly named Tombstone in Arizona, to show who has the longer fingers to kill a charging tiger. The U.S. guarantees that Pootin the Great's body will not be mutilated. It will be returned honorably to the Russian people. Meet at O.K. Corral at High Noon but please confirm the date for preparations before the duel.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

I'm really sorry to have to say it grapes but it's U$A that is ''retarded because its memories ... seem to have been lost from its people'' & maybe the years & years of misinformation & propaganda mean that US' collective memory itself is now suspect!

Now for you to say that - ''we (USA) need to remind the Russian people" of "The Great Patriotic War" is redolent with US-centric hubris. The USSR lost a bare minimum of 25 million people on their own soil & the effects of that (& other) mass depopulation events, are still working out today. As you know, Russia does not call WWII ''The Second World War'' but refers to it as ''The Great Patriotic War'' because it was in existential peril of a racial annihilation BUT after Stalingrad & then Kursk .. The Red Army would have marched & battled all the way to the French coast & could've won the War in Europe on its own IF they had to. The Nazi War Machine was broken by The USSR .. despite many US/UK conceits.

Furthermore ... the Russians were also the only other Allied Boots On The Ground on Japanese territory (Sakhalin etc.) & their entry into that theatre, had far more to do w/Japan's surrender then we are taught in The West. As a footnote ... it may be added that many people understand that tho' Japan was broken by Fire Bombing, Blockade and Battle Defeats; the Two Atom Bombs were more about signalling to The Russians - than it was about ''defeating'' an already defeated Japan.

Your third and fourth paragraphs allude to the horrors of war - not unlike The Rape of Nanking, My Lai & a myriad other horrors visited upon the innocents by rampaging armies, high on blood lust and revenge.I excuse nothing and condemn it all ... but I will NOT pick out The Russians over Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, French in Africa, Spanish in S.America; Imperial UK or its continuation - The Current US Empire.

Re. Crimea .. you are joking, right? Crimea was & is historically Russian for centuries before Krushchev attached it to Ukraine in the 50's. Please do NOT tell me, that after Ukraine decided it would throw in its lot w/Western Gangster Crapitalism after Extreme RW Nationalism was unleashed (cf. Stepan Bandera) that Russia was NOT going to become very concerned about a Russian majority Crimea ..which .. & get this next bit very clearly grapes ... had its historical Black Sea Fleet HQ and ONLY year round, ice free, warm water port in Sebastopol!

The open referendum that Crimea had to stay with Russia, did not need to be gerrymandered and it was obvious what was going to happen after that Neocon Witch Victoria Nuland started shit going in Ukraine.

Russia is a powerful country, which has interests & - it needs to be respected. Perhaps the only plus of tRUMP's presidency, will be a certain lessening of tensions with Russia. In this respect, Obama & HRC are old school, US-MIC, Neocon idiots - who believe in US Primacy and Full Spectrum Dominance - but the world doesn't want that and is more at ease with a multi-polar world - then the US-MIC can compute.

Please stop getting any ''news'' and views from MSM grapes .. it will curdle and cook your mind and fill it with a skewed RW, US-centric propaganda. Do try, inter alia .. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

Happy New Year!

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 7 years ago

very nicely done! grapes lays out the u.s. elites view of history and current events which is entirely incorrect factually. you correct it point by point- thanks for putting in the time and effort to do that - now if we could get someone to do that on ms we would be a long way towards our goal.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

MSM in USA is in a frenzy trying to falsely blame Russia & Putin - for the fiasco that was Hellary Rotten Clinton's defeat to tRUMP! It is fkn shameful beyond belief - that Putin is somehow accused for the fact that HRC was utterly unpalatable to so many of US' 99% .. whether they voted for tRUMP, for someone else or refused to vote!! PotUS tRUMP is Obomber and that fkn bitch's GOP-Lite legacy but Paleo-Cold War, knee-jerk Anti-Russianism is easier for the stupid Dem half-wits - than it is to really analyse whyTF Dems lost so fkn badly but I am stopping right there flip ... before I pop a gasket!!! HNY to you & mayda.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

I didn't want to rebut here because I realized that I had veered off to a topic (Russia) that should better be debated in a separate posting. Will you, flip, and ImNotMe meet me there instead? By rightful inheritance of more than 1.5 centuries, I claim all of Eurasia as my ancestral Lebensraum. Should I drive out all of the squatters?

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 7 years ago

as i said you simply repeat elite opinion. demonize russia to try to create an enemy to justify the military. no real evidence for this but non needed right. the us elite back nazis in ukraine but we are the good guys. putin attacks isis in allepo and he is the bad guy.

we have been through all of this before and imnotme layed it out very well. why do it again. i have no interest in discussing with those who cannot free their minds from orthodoxies

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Russia's Greek based Cyrillic Alphabet has probably made Russia a perennially retarded country set apart from much of Europe which teaches English to most of the children. Even China, facing a similar (and arguably worse) problem, had started the romanization initiative many decades ago, that resulted in Pinyin and also many people who can deal with the U.S., speaking English(the de facto most dominant language of global trade). The Russian people somehow give Pootin the Great sky-high approval ratings even as he plants the seed of more wars on Russia. Russians probably need Germany's annexation to civilize it with the height of enlightened civilization acquired through bloodbaths again and again.

Let Angela the Great mother the Russian people. She's the one who "gets it" apparently, a rarity these days in the new bombie boom on the world stage as the baby-boomer flower children fade away, wouldn't you agree?

Russia is comparable to the single U.S. state of California despite its massive land of Siberia. I think the maps produced with the Mercator projection gave the Russian people and probably much of the world's population an exaggerated grandiose notion about Russia's importance. The only thing that I think Russia is scary is its nuclear weapons but I fear far more of their not really being under the control of the Russian state than their actually being used intentionally as Russia does not have jihad in its vocabulary to do suicide bombing. Russia would surely face massive retaliation to its populations densely packed on the European side of its country should it happen.

I didn't quite grasp this until I had found out the population of Moscow. Wow, it far exceeds New York's but that means the rest of Russia just cannot be very populated. Nuking Russian cities will take Russia easily to the Black Forest age when mushrooms grown from decomposing cadavers will become the staple food for everything from potatoes to cabbages.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

Russia is NOT "a perennially retarded country" and for you to say such a thing, in and of itself - shows real retardation; a heavily propagandised mind; hubris & - an unjustified US Exceptionalism!!! You think English is the world's sine quo non and that Russia and China won't cope without it?!! Btw China is the world's oldest continuous civilisation with a written culture going back 5k+ years and the Russians give Putin far higher ''approval ratings'' far higher than tRUMP .. who only got <20% of all adult votes in U$A!

''Nuking Russian cities''?!!! And - ''mushrooms grown from decomposing cadavers''?!! There is something really dark, deep in your psyche grapes - just like in The Wider Collective USA perhaps?! Get well soon.

fiat lux!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

"You think English is the world's sine quo non and that Russia and China won't cope without it?!!"

No, English is absolutely Non-essential for countries which don't deal with the anglophone countries. DPRK and Cuba have coped rather marvelously without much English for a very long time. Russia and China have also done that. However, without the Politburo's decisive turn towards English, there would have been no "Rise of China."

I'm not entirely comfortable with this decisive turn towards English. I still remember the Kaiser's decision to have English instead of French taught to Germans near the beginning of the 20th century. Sharing a language did Not help ward off the worst artificial calamities to befall humanity. Great Britain, U.S.A., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Malta, Gibraltar, Singapore, Malaya, South Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, and Germany all spoke mostly or some English and that might have actually exacerbated Germany's envy of the British Empire. Some "walls" provide stability. China's envy is leading us all down the same old path. 养虎贻患(Does 卍 instead of 卐 really make such a difference? 養龙遗卍?)

Been here(Nieuw Amsterdam, Oranje Man heeft ding eiland - New Netherland's fossilized phallus aiming at Lady Liberty downstream from Battery Park), done this(shhhhhhhhhh). Nasty!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

''China's envy is leading us all down the same old path"!!! WTF?!! You a bit of a Trump fan grapes?!

multum in parvo?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

Every country in the world can cope perfectly within their borders as well as with those they have alternative communications capabilities with. But it is kind of a clumsy work around in general as English has pretty much been adopted through research science and technological innovation to be the common language due to development of decades. This could change and go Cyrillic or Chinese - but would take decades of reeducation for the rest of the world before it became common.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

"Every country can cope perfectly within their borders as well as with those they have alternative communications with."

I only wish that it were true but it isn't. Multiculturalism without a lingua franca requirement pretty much guarantees that the country will have a fair amount of divisions, perhaps even leading eventually to a breakup. ImNotMe objects to my cheerleading role for English. He didn't quite get that I was just taking my rather complex already linguistic environment as I had found it. English happens to be the closest to a lingua franca worldwide so I advocate its adoption by anyone who wants to avail themselves of global economic opportunities.

I'm multilingual and multicultural pledging my subservience to English as the lingua franca. Having Chinese as lingua franca is fine with me in the same way as English is fine with India. German is fine with me, too, due to its being dominant in North Central Europe and known well by the largest number of Europeans.

Going Cyrillic takes more effort for me but I frankly don't trade or communicate much with those countries in Cyrillic. (I'm somewhat disappointed that we had allowed Russia to lapse into isolation after ending the Cold War so I was honestly irritated a bit by the Cyrillic alphabets - see? different languages can quickly divide people emotionally, just as at the Tower of Babel, a curse from God, the Supreme Fascist Dictator[ALL religious fundamentalists aspiring to emulate God, Elohim, Allah, etc. are Fascists so we have "billions upon billions" of them, as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore, as God had promised to Abram/Abraham - why did God add "ham" to bless him? Did it derive from a pig with multiple spouses to produce numerous offspring since the blessed monogamous Isaac didn't get a name change?])

I can get by knowing only a few "shoot-the-breeze" sentences to warm things up a bit and when the going gets tough, switching full-bore to English(even the very culturally proud ones often know English fluently - speaking their native tongues was mainly a matter of me paying homage - foreigners are often forgiving and will go with English if I start struggling with my linguistic limits - they know the feelings when they learnt English).

It'll be great if everyone should become at least bilingual to maintain access to their ancestral culture(s) as well as knowing a lingua franca for economic adaptability for livelihood. American/British English, Mandarin Chinese, and Spanish are close to being lingua franca for significant portions of the world so everyone should know at least one of them. We may even be able to ward off or delay Alzheimer's disease in many people's families ("Ronnie" and Nancy Reagan's came to mind) and save huge amounts of social, monetary, and emotional costs worldwide.

Does Europe have lower rates of Alzheimer's dementia cases than the U.S. since most Europeans speak at least two languages but Americans are predominantly monolingual? Could the cultural clash we are experiencing be decreasing the Alzheimer's dementia rate by promoting multilingualism?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

OMG Diarrhea of the mouth Much?

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

Yes, foot-in-mouth flex-baby-leg syndrome afflicts many denizens of (the communicative toe capital of the U.S.) New Amsterdam(yay, Amerika first, Nederland Second, with Humor!) due to its being at the low-bottom triangular end of the gigantic funnel of Jew Jerk State, arguably the yuugest bladder "visible from space" equipped with the phallic "Man heeft ding eiland" that pisses golden showers at Lady Liberty through (the assault-and-) Battery Park. The disease is endemic due to having so many delicatessens stuffing salami, bacon, and Hebrew Franks with salmonella into us. It's Nowhere as bad though as the actions at the global anal sphincter happening right now: the duplicitous sleight-of-hand "clearing" of Israeli settlements on occupied territories and Iranian missile test's 》der After.《 The Jew shall jerk. Norovirus yields higher throughputs from Both ends.

We're still missing Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and DPRK as important casts in this global 》Scheiß-Fest《. Russia and China have already been acting up. Stay tuned. Everyone, I repeat, everyone needs a golden shower before entering the 》Schwimmbad《.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

DPRK has reported for duty in this global 》Scheiß-Fest 《. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan may arrive next.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

The U.S. is Exceptional. When I can finally watch native-country-made Saturday Night Live episodes about Xi Jinping in Chinese and Vladimir Putin in Russian available freely to their respective nationals without them being persecuted or prosecuted, I'll curb my saying that the U.S. is exceptional. I love Humor, especially from Russia and Angina with Love.

"Ancientness" does not correlate with greatness. Why didn't you mention India? It has an even more ancient civilization than China's. China looks down upon India and I suspect that China is not alone.

Putin's so-called "approval" rating is the reason why I think the Russians are still perennially retarded. There may well be some basis for having Russia as a part of the Lebensraum. Russia had never been a reliable ally in any war (no-honor). Russia still doesn't know whether it should belong in the family of European nations even after the efforts of Catherine the Great.

As for the darkness deep in my psyche, I know, I know. It's been there for a long long time. The most brilliant flash of enlightenment came through the darkness(of teenage suicidal thoughts). No one plays fireworks in bright sunlight to impress. Plumb the depths of despair and the most beautiful, fluorescent, and cleanest yellow lotus flower may yet bloom amidst the rising methane bubbles from the very dark ooze. From within the deep dark muck, the seed of kindness and understanding yields transcendence.

I tried to possess this most beautiful plant by moving it to my aquarium. It died. I suspect that it needed the deep dark muck or whatever its environment held. Behold the beauty while it lasts. Possessing the wild beauty is for losers.

I eat mushrooms and I'm fully aware from what they come. I accept that I'm a part of this cycle of recirculating nutrients that I'll join in earnest someday. After the bombie boom, there'll likely be many cadavers and with sunlight blackened out by soot and smoke in the sky, nothing can be grown for years. Mushrooms will become survival food. How long it'll last may well depend on whether cannibalism sets in, too, for the impatient ones.

For an understanding of what is(Aleppo and Mosul?), and what was, and what is to come, remember Leningrad for Lebensraum. "In time of famine people revealed themselves stripped of all trumpery. Some turned out marvellous, incomparable heroes. Others - scoundrels, villains, murderers, cannibals. There were no half measures."

Eating mushrooms will be no worse than manufacturing false intelligence regarding the weapons of mass destruction underneath Saddam Hussein's palace or his seeking yellow-cake uranium in Niger. Now let me also manufacture an intelligence of the utmost importance to New Yorkers: Donald Trump put a nuclear bomb in the Trump Tower in Manhattan to safeguard his family. If terrorists attack Trump Tower, he'll nuke Manhattan to kill them. He'll also order all Trump properties worldwide be safeguarded in the same manner against terrorists' attacks. He's one tough cookie, my kind of Boom Boom Baby!

The Iraqis could have had huge amounts of mushrooms grown. It's just too bad that they didn't have enough darkness - they're too bright and dry there. I think Russia and China have the sufficient darkness and wetness for their ample domestic production of mushrooms(feeding them poo and keeping them moist and in the dark is the formula for success). 你们是蘑菇吗? Вы грибы?

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

Yes "Ancientness" does not correlate with greatness" .. just like militarily powerful does NOT equate to EXCEPTIONAL - and I didn't ''mention India'' because it didn't figure in your previous response - to which I was replying but OF COURSE India is an ancient and great culture too & China doesn't culturally ''look down on India'' - quite the opposite actually ... given they know that it is where The Buddha came from!!!

You seem able to regard entire nations - in this case Russia - as ''perennially retarded'' and then you go on to say that there ''may well be some basis for having Russia as a part of the Lebensraum'' & ''Russia had never been a reliable ally in any war''. WTF kinda Nazi loving shit is this grapes and do you know or realise or want to forget that ... it was The Russians who lost a minimum of 25m people in WW2 (which they call The Great Patriotic War) AND that it was The Russians - who broke The Nazi War Machine at Stalingrad & Kursk and who'd have marched & beaten The Nazis all the way to the French Coast if they had to?!!

You may "eat mushrooms" grapes .. but I am NOT reading any more of your crapola above - tho' I could tell you a thing or two about Aleppo and Mosul - two of the oldest continuously occupied cities on Earth.

I end with this re.Iraq, Syria & Libya: https://twitter.com/Shadz66Shadz6t6/status/830431203475988481 And da, I do like mushrooms but I haven't fkn turned into one just yet! Stick to psilocybin & NOT poison!

e tenebris, lux?

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

can't respond to your latest comment so will do it here. i am convinced that those like frf are the real problem. we have a huge majority of the country on our side if we frame the question properly. we had a democratic party get out the vote guy come to our home. i told him that i have friends who voted for trump and that they are not stupid. his response was (like frf) "yes they are!" this is a stupid way to reach people who have real complaints - especially against the dems.

i have too many republican friends and some who are not republican but voted for trump. almost all of them can have reasonable conversations about what is going on and what should be done. the old time republicans (eisenhower, reagan types) are horrified by what is going on. the guys who voted for trump are not stupid. they agree with us on most of the big issues - outsourcing, bailing out main street not wall street, bring the troops home and health insurance. the dems convinced these people to vote for anyone else since they (the dems) helped to create the problems we face.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

The Democratic Party and DNC in particular - is currently trying to purge any and all Bernie-crats! Sadly, despite being clued-up on eg. Climate Change & some other things, frf is a hopelessly lost cause due to his obstinate and myopic allegiance to Hellary Rotten Clueless. Tho' HRC wouldn't have removed it, one of the main dangers of Trump - is the forces he's unleashing in USA right now & thus, please consider ...

e tenebris ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

I am sorry to have overlooked DPRK as a great producer and exporter of mushrooms. It figures because mushrooms need this Freudian democratic people's formula for success: feeding them poo and keeping them moist and in the dark.

DPRK can easily satisfy psilocybin needs of the world because DPRK is a 'magic mushroom' state. My globalized help hotline had a numbered button reserved just for 'magic mushroom' months before TeraERex had savagely chewed up Mx. Cheese sitting on the toilet, as inspired by DKAtoday.

After the pooting and trumpery, I'd take some psilocybin mushroom from DPRK as you had advised because it's NOT poison. Да, конечно!

Russia is probably not as "perennially retarded" as I had thought because it got the German scientific/technological infusion after World War II as the U.S. did in Operation Paperclip and Alsos: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim

Here's the story of the Germans who went to Russia: https://www.airspacemag.com/space/the-rest-of-the-rocket-scientists-4376617/?page=5

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

Yes, Psilocybin is ''NOT poison'' & that is why I implied for U to stick to the former and leave the latter alone .. IF U read how I ended my previous reply (from 7 months ago) - correctly!!! I Get It: U don't like Russians, which makes folk like U particularly susceptible to all the ''Putin Installed Trump as PotUS'' horseshit!! Me? I don't like Nazis and I think that whatever they get; they deserve! Ergo, to your horror:

quid pro quo et multum in parvo!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Is Richard Spencer trying to emulate Kim Jong-un with that style of haircut?

In Nieuw Amsterdam, having Dutch dislikes is rather traditional.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

From watching your links, I have determined that I am ultra-tolerant, definitely not a Fascist. I don't see any "horror" although I think that Richard Spencer should not have been punched for speaking his mind(in the video he hadn't even said much). It's very clear from the First Amendment of our Bill of Rights.

I know what he had said elsewhere so I certainly have and am entitled to have an opinion about his beliefs in establishing a racially white homeland in the U.S. It is rather Silly and Stupid. Race is a silly idea that needs to be phased out(especially the law enforcement oldies who would never change their minds and those in the college admission area administering institutionalized racism). "Upholding the bloodline" actually tends to produce more morons. Biology is very clear about that due to inbreeding. In finance, we have a similar concept called asset allocation or portfolio diversification. In evolution, we have sex, sex, sex.. although asexual reproduction at first glance seems to be far more efficient. In tribal customs, "don't mate with your own mother, father, or any sibling" - it's a taboo. Clans keep exquisite and often centuries-long lists of reproductive records to avoid inbreeding as one important goal. In materials, composites often outperform their parental materials individually in pure forms.

Fellow Americans, think about the U.S. itself. We have about 5% of the world's population but we produce nearly one quarter of the world's annual production of goods and services. Without assimilating many people, the U.S. would not have become a predominant country. We used to say that the eastern Europeans were going to ruin the U.S. So were the Catholics, the southern Europeans, the Jews, the Asians, and on and on... The U.S. kept on growing despite all of the alleged problems. Most of the children of these immigrants have already intermarried and now identify simply as Americans. Yes, being American is nearly synonymous as being a mongrel. It's not the genetic stock that made America achieve(in fact, I tend to think that there are more lower-class poor, wretched, and adventuresome{only the free-in-spirit and the brave dare to uproot and test themselves in the very big Spanish Ocean - ¡mucha, mucha, señorita, venal vino!} people in our genetic stock than that of those remaining in the Old World). It's the institutions, the environment, the infrastructures, the beliefs, etc. that did. Fixating on racial whiteness is focusing on the wrong thing. Beliefs and cultural values matter far more. The U.S. specialty as a bottom feeder is the transformation of the so-called "garbage" people into our national assets. Unfortunately, many of us seem to have forgotten what it means to be an American. Have you read the Bill of Rights and the rest of the Constitution yet? The right to dissent is embedded in the U.S. foundation. NFL players do not work for our Willy Carrot of Orange.

As for swastikas(of which there are multiple kinds, one kind that I had seen decorated the entire frieze of a building but Nobody uttered anything about it - it was peaceful), I don't see how Adolf Hitler's fondness of the symbol(but flipping it around and destabilizing it, as an artist might have done) should cause the banning of its usage because it has been used as a positive symbol of the sun, peace, and prosperity, for millennia before. It is as ridiculous as banning Britney Speers just because Saddam Hussein had an obsession with her.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

To be "ultra-tolerant" of Fascism, is not merely tolerance - it's actually weak and abject failure to resist a dangerous, human hating, chauvinistic, racialist ideology. Mussolini's defined Fascism as a fusion of State (Military) & Corporations. That is where USA is but it hides behind an illusion of democracy - and anyone with eyes to see it .. CAN! Hitler was an Occultist and reversing the Swastika was a purposeful act. No time for much more now but per my forum-post, consider

e tenebris, tenebris?!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

Israelis and Gaza residents are involved in the millenium war with each other. As told by the Bible, ever since the days of the half-brothers Ismael and Isaac millenia ago, the conflict has existed. Yes, Israel might have planned things in advance but it might just be re-purposing as well.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

''The Occupied Territories Are the Biggest Prison on Earth'', by Mark Karlin:

Thanx for the stream of consciousness below. Maybe I will look at it again later & respond. And maybe I won't. However, I'm restricting myself to the subject of this forum-post and thread for now. So, have at it!

quid pro quo ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

I should have said that I'm ultra-tolerant while I'm examining the however gruesome and disgusting evidence. Of course, I fight Fascism (but not 》der Nationalismus -- Das Wort Nationalismus bezeichnet die bewusste Identifizierung mit dem Land, zu dem sich ein Mensch zugehörig fühlt. Für sehr viele Menschen ist es das Land, in dem sie leben und dessen Staatsangehörigkeit sie haben. Sehr unterschiedliche Menschen werden zu einer Nation gezählt und man kennt sie nie alle: trotzdem gibt es die Vorstellung, dass alle etwas verbindet. Diese Idee ist die Grundlage für den Nationalismus.《 - it's too much to take on due to its prevalence in almost every nation-state and growing fast as a backlash against the injustices of Neoliberalism (Market Globalism) {I witnessed these so I'm still on duty here for a Majority of One}), Statism, Totalitarianism, etc. or else I wouldn't still be here plucking away after more than six years.

I try to keep my emotions under control until I've completed my examination of the evidence. The Bible says that there's a time for everything. Complementarily, I say, a place for everything and everything in its place, and in its due time. Serializing my information absorption process into distinct stages is a strength, not a weakness.

If you look at the divided mental state of the U.S., I'm sure that you will agree with me that far too many people cannot examine their political opponents' policy positions unemotionally before they pass judgments. Open-mindedness requires keeping emotions in check.

Emotions made Trump a solution but through his Twitter attacks on individuals, institutions, and the press, he has proven that he is a solution which holds the seeds of many Un-American problems (such as a close-mindedness akin to so-called "fake news'" severing of "the corpus callosum" and doing a "lobotomy"). It's time to "suck the air" out of Room 39 and the (illegal) accomplice Chinese black markets. If the governments there don't clean up, make the Red River flow there by herding their animals to the slaughter.

Attacking the press is an impeachable offense since Trump had sworn to uphold our Constitution which had actually gotten started with the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights. Without it there would have been no U.S. Constitution. It embodies "E Pluribus Unum" to transcend divisions by circumscribing centralized power.

What our Adult Day Care Re-education Camp needs from our Kindergarten Education is: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, ONE Nation under God, Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for ALL" - Not to serve any autocrat, tyrant, or dictator but to protect the Liberty of my people to speak their mind and burn this Flag. The U.S.A. is defined by an ideal (Freedom via Self Governance of a Republic), Not a flag. Our "Flag stands for Freedom," Not in reverse.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

what do you think of this? the first part of a longer article -Antifa in Theory and in Practice

By Diana Johnstone Source: Counterpunch October 9, 2017 “Fascists are divided into two categories: the fascists and the anti-fascists.”

– Ennio Flaiano, Italian writer and co-author of Federico Fellini’s greatest film scripts.

In recent weeks, a totally disoriented left has been widely exhorted to unify around a masked vanguard calling itself Antifa, for anti-fascist. Hooded and dressed in black, Antifa is essentially a variation of the Black Bloc, familiar for introducing violence into peaceful demonstrations in many countries. Imported from Europe, the label Antifa sounds more political. It also serves the purpose of stigmatizing those it attacks as “fascists”.

Despite its imported European name, Antifa is basically just another example of America’s steady descent into violence.

Historical Pretensions

Antifa first came to prominence from its role in reversing Berkeley’s proud “free speech” tradition by preventing right wing personalities from speaking there. But its moment of glory was its clash with rightwingers in Charlottesville on August 12, largely because Trump commented that there were “good people on both sides”. With exuberant Schadenfreude, commentators grabbed the opportunity to condemn the despised President for his “moral equivalence”, thereby bestowing a moral blessing on Antifa.

Charlottesville served as a successful book launching for Antifa: the Antifascist Handbook, whose author, young academic Mark Bray, is an Antifa in both theory and practice. The book is “really taking off very fast”, rejoiced the publisher, Melville House. It instantly won acclaim from leading mainstream media such as the New York Times, The Guardian and NBC, not hitherto known for rushing to review leftwing books, least of all those by revolutionary anarchists.

The Washington Post welcomed Bray as spokesman for “insurgent activist movements” and observed that: “The book’s most enlightening contribution is on the history of anti-fascist efforts over the past century, but its most relevant for today is its justification for stifling speech and clobbering white supremacists.”

Bray’s “enlightening contribution” is to a tell a flattering version of the Antifa story to a generation whose dualistic, Holocaust-centered view of history has largely deprived them of both the factual and the analytical tools to judge multidimensional events such as the growth of fascism. Bray presents today’s Antifa as though it were the glorious legitimate heir to every noble cause since abolitionism. But there were no anti-fascists before fascism, and the label “Antifa” by no means applies to all the many adversaries of fascism.

The implicit claim to carry on the tradition of the International Brigades who fought in Spain against Franco is nothing other than a form of innocence by association. Since we must revere the heroes of the Spanish Civil War, some of that esteem is supposed to rub off on their self-designated heirs. Unfortunately, there are no veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade still alive to point to the difference between a vast organized defense against invading fascist armies and skirmishes on the Berkeley campus. As for the Anarchists of Catalonia, the patent on anarchism ran out a long time ago, and anyone is free to market his own generic.

The original Antifascist movement was an effort by the Communist International to cease hostilities with Europe’s Socialist Parties in order to build a common front against the triumphant movements led by Mussolini and Hitler.

Since Fascism thrived, and Antifa was never a serious adversary, its apologists thrive on the “nipped in the bud” claim: “if only” Antifascists had beat up the fascist movements early enough, the latter would have been nipped in the bud. Since reason and debate failed to stop the rise of fascism, they argue, we must use street violence – which, by the way, failed even more decisively.

This is totally ahistorical. Fascism exalted violence, and violence was its preferred testing ground. Both Communists and Fascists were fighting in the streets and the atmosphere of violence helped fascism thrive as a bulwark against Bolshevism, gaining the crucial support of leading capitalists and militarists in their countries, which brought them to power.

Since historic fascism no longer exists, Bray’s Antifa have broadened their notion of “fascism” to include anything that violates the current Identity Politics canon: from “patriarchy” (a pre-fascist attitude to put it mildly) to “transphobia” (decidedly a post-fascist problem).

The masked militants of Antifa seem to be more inspired by Batman than by Marx or even by Bakunin.

Storm Troopers of the Neoliberal War Party

Since Mark Bray offers European credentials for current U.S. Antifa, it is appropriate to observe what Antifa amounts to in Europe today.

In Europe, the tendency takes two forms. Black Bloc activists regularly invade various leftist demonstrations in order to smash windows and fight the police. These testosterone exhibits are of minor political significance, other than provoking public calls to strengthen police forces. They are widely suspected of being influenced by police infiltration.

As an example, last September 23, several dozen black-clad masked ruffians, tearing down posters and throwing stones, attempted to storm the platform where the flamboyant Jean-Luc Mélenchon was to address the mass meeting of La France Insoumise, today the leading leftist party in France. Their unspoken message seemed to be that nobody is revolutionary enough for them. Occasionally, they do actually spot a random skinhead to beat up. This establishes their credentials as “anti-fascist”.

They use these credentials to arrogate to themselves the right to slander others in a sort of informal self-appointed inquisition.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

Nazis like Richard Spencer, only really properly understand just one language - ergo, I really have NO PROBLEM with anyone who will speak that language to them! There is NO appeal to consideration or compassion; logic or love; rhyme or reason, that they'll accept or appreciate & that'll disabuse them of their Ultra-RW, chauvinistic, violently nationalistic, pro-Corporate & 0.01%, hateful horseshit!! They're haters who will NEVER NOT Hate!!! + So again see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rh1dhur4aI

I read your excerpted article above with interest, disappointment and some alarm.The author is naive and misinformed at best. People who will come onto the streets to stand up to, Nazi / KKK / Alt-Right thugs, are from very diverse backgrounds and form a very wide church. They intrinsically understand what has to be done IF Nazis are NOT to control the streets in USA, UK, Europe or elsewhere.

Susan Bro's beloved brave daughter Heather Heyer ... was NOT confused by false equivalences and knew perfectly well what she was doing and why. She didn't deserve to die for it tho'! Please consider this recent article ...

''Heyer was killed when a car plowed into counter-protesters after a white supremacist rally in Virginia. Her mother, Susan Bro, reflects on trying to build a global movement in her daughter’s name." RIP HH.

''For starters, while antifa perpetrates violence, it doesn’t perpetrate it on anything like the scale that white nationalists do. It’s no coincidence that it was a Nazi sympathizer—and not an antifa activist—who committed murder in Charlottesville. According to the Anti-Defamation League, right-wing extremists committed 74 percent of the 372 politically motivated murders recorded in the United States between 2007 and 2016. Left-wing extremists committed less than 2 percent.

''Second, antifa activists don’t wield anything like the alt-right’s power. White, Christian supremacy has been government policy in the United States for much of American history. Anarchism has not. That’s why there are no statues of Mikhail Bakunin in America’s parks and government buildings. Antifa boasts no equivalent to Steve Bannon, who called his old publication, Breitbart, “the platform for the alt-right,” and now works in the White House. It boasts no equivalent to Attorney General Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, who bears the middle name of a Confederate general and the first name of the Confederacy’s president, and who allegedly called the NAACP “un-American.” It boasts no equivalent to Alex Jones, who Donald Trump praised as “amazing.” Even if antifa’s vision of society were as noxious as the “alt-right’s,” it has vastly less power to make that vision a reality.

''And antifa’s vision is not as noxious. Antifa activists do not celebrate regimes that committed genocide and enforced slavery.'' The FBI and Amy Goodman can share the final words on the matter here now ...

Hope all well with U, mayda and crew. Any noises from the NJ-Alaskan? Sorry I took so long to get back to you. I saw your reply some time ago .. but my forum in-tray is totally full of brainfarts from factsRfukt!!!

Finally, and more in keeping with this forum-post and thread and all things Iran, tRUMP & moves for war,

Do Americans, Left, Liberal, RW Dems (cf.frf, lol) and Bat-Shit-Crazy RW GOP know: that the word Iran comes from the word ''Aryan"; that USA overthrew its Democratically Elected President in 1953 .. who'd had the temerity to want to nationalize Iran's oil Industry, for the benefit of ALL its people, as opposed to just the Super-Profits of Anglo-Persian Oil (later becoming BP!); that the coup was organised by..Kermit Roosevelt and run straight out of the US Embassy in Tehran; that THAT, was the real reason that young leftist students invaded the US Embassy 26 years later & that - well...pls see The Twitter Thread above!

pax, amor et lux; hic, nunc et semper ...

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

and yes - too much nonsense here - very disturbing if really it is an ows site. i am sure it does not represent ows but the weird remnants of something that could have been helpful to people. instead just the silliness of a few people playing kids games. frf and grapes seem to be out to annoy not educate. not sure why anyone would want to waste time that way. i don't have time to waste!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

Don't get ground down by the "nonsense'' here, as it only reflects the ''nonsense'' and worse, out in Main Street, U$A! Sadly the average level of understanding is pretty low out there, and kept that way by Corp. MSM!! Now imagine .. half the people have less understanding than that!!! We still represent OWS here, warts n'all and it's not wasted time, comrade ;-)

et per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

no news from alaska - sent out an email but no response - yet? you know we agree on fighting nazis. we disagree on the best method. if that is our only disagreement that is pretty amazing.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 6 years ago

I discovered that I have an e-mail for The Alaskan too. I'll try touching base with him too but find myself more than slightly concerned about the matter tbh. Of course - ''we agree on fighting nazis'' & it's less a disagreement on methodology .. than a difference of emphasis. Stay well comrade &....don't give up on this place .. it's more important than we'll ever know but your grand kids may yet discover ~{~


[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

does this stupidity fit the definition of trolling?? is that what you are doing? do you have a job? do you live and interact with other people? wtf? why- and why here? ows - have you no shame sir!

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

I'm trying to get this world off of the terrible roadmap laid out by my globalized help hotline. The fate of this world trumps everything, don't you think? Russia is correct that DPRK will stay a de facto nuclear-weapon state so let us prepare for that and carry out the mandate of the NPT(Nuclear Proliferation Treaty) to promote "(cemetery) peace through atoms."

If NATO joins Russia, that will greatly reduce any fear of Russian aggressions.

в России все женщины прекрасны

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

ok all good - now tell me who is blocking the scaling back of nukes - russia or the usa??? the big dog calls the tune no? and while you sit here in the good old usa i really think you should stop babbling about russian aggression. the rest of the world sees another bigger and much more dangerous aggressor - can you see that murderous state? look hard - read the paper without those horse blinders - can you see it?? come on you can do it - clean up your own house boy before you look at someone elses. my finnish friend is here and is shaking his head in disbelief that this is an ows website. i think he is getting really depressed! i guess he thought we might be one of the groups that could help to change the world. i told him you were just kidding about the russians - he's better now

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

A solution OR a problem? 21st-century quantum logic says, "a solution AND a problem." Every problem holds the seed of its solution. Every solution holds the seeds of many problems - Big Red Dog ISIS Zen. Ahhh, Zion!

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

you are a coward

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

The other puppies don't seem to get it that they need to bark their cougar up that tree. They bark at the Big Red Dog instead. Correlation is not necessarily causality. Many puppies bark that the Big Red Dog caused bloody fights. Oh yeah, who barked for the Big Red Dog initially?

It is mostly "learned"(my take on the result of the discussion with a hijab-wearing woman) juvenile incompetence. Fin.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

you are a waste of time - part of the solution or part of the problem

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 6 years ago

It is just too bad that the Finns have been too aptly named, so close to potential Russian aggressions and NOT a member of NATO. Remember that they are (sister?) Finnish.

[-] 1 points by flip (7101) 6 years ago

ah, the usual dopey response when the questions raised can't be answered with recognizing that your world view is incorrect. but how about answering it anyway smarty pants. which nation is in the lead in preventing the scaling back of nukes - and while you're at it how about responding to my point about our atrocities? and what do you think of the idea of fixing the problems of our government before complaining about those of others - what a novel idea no - but a good one?

Zen expression - "the wise, boldly pick up a truth when they hear it - be quick or you'll lose your head!"

[-] 0 points by flip (7101) 7 years ago

he is stuck in 1955 - sad but it has something to do with his babysitter and his mother. my advice - ok you didn't ask for it but here it is anyway - is to ignore him. i think everyone else does

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

Possibly good advice BUT alas we are so few here now that to alienate and ignore each other could well be counter-productive. This site is still - one of the last standing, functional and extant sites representing OWS. At a time when people look for alternatives to Trumpish Lunacy, this site really should be opened up. I encourage all of here to post, whenever possible. As an aside ... any noises from or contact details for our Scandinavian comrade? Also as you & mayda were there & thereabouts, I draw your attention to:

ad iudicium...

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 7 years ago

I strongly suspect that the Israelis do not read or understand their own Holy Book or we wouldn't have this much of a mess in the Middle East. I don't own the Jewish version but I was told that the Old Testament in my Christian Bible is substantially identical to that of Judaism so I use it. The Deity of the Old Testament is indeed harsh so it's not I, just making it all up.

I agree that Abrahamic Mumbo-Jumbo(AMJ) is somewhat toxic. I just need to pull down my pants to show you my missing prepuce. The Empire had much of this AMJ and I suspect that my Mom had fallen under the spell of the Empire's erroneous AMJ and bedwetting-"curing" teachings and had genital mutilation inflicted on me as a grade schooler. It was painful on multiple levels(relational, physical, mental, psychological, etc.). Jews love to make things up apparently, being crafty mind twisters really. The response Must be in the same realm. It's fundamental physics that similar frequencies can interact to create great effects but dissimilar frequencies cannot.

The meaningful acronym WHA T FG applies well to the northcentral European plains of so many wars therefore singing it in German is very appropriate since Germany has borders with so many countries and has been in wars almost forever. The grassland of the video is meditative to me because the many juggernauts "mowing a lawn" repeatedly had greatly influenced my life's origin and trajectory: 90%+ death rate of the offspring in my father's generation on his side and 50%+ death rate of the offspring in my generation. I Hate wars and the damned "walls" that had cleaved our families into pieces here and there(some graceful and very brave souls had tried to help so yes, I still believe in humanity's possessing Grace, not meriting total destruction). On this gut level, I think I understand why Israel is so important to the Jewish diaspora. I want a field of wild flowers, not a well-juggernaut-"mowed" suburban lawn. Let the war ashes fertilize the flowers. Well, yes, I am still a starry-eyed "flower" child. "The sun(on Earth) rose in my eyes."

The solution is either two states(which is getting farther out of reach with the Jewish settlements on occupied lands) per Oslo Accord or One Israeli state formed by the annexation of all occupied lands conferring immediate and full Israeli citizenship to All residents of the annexed lands.

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

Extreme Nationalism has taken over Israeli society and the irony of a RW Race Based Ideology being in such a sway in a society, where many of the founders were victims of Germanic Aryan Racial Conceits, can not be lost on the rest of the world. Also, to regard oneself as a member of God's Chosen People is arguable The Original Racist Concept. Not sure I can help you with what your Mom inflicted upon you in the name of a "Covenant with God" but I can recommend both this article and website to you:

From which I'll very briefly except this: ''When Netanyahu has enough people convinced that his political decisions are sacred, he becomes a very powerful politician indeed. That is how to understand the Iran deal hysteria, and his ability to waltz into the US Congress to standing ovations while attacking the U.S. president.''

I thought that you would see meaning in - "WHATFG" acronym, as a play between ''Where Have All The Flowers Gone & What The Fk, Germany'' but I also add that, the re-unified Germany that we have today, despite its problems and history, is one of THE most 99% friendly, Progressive nations on Earth & from where I believe, we've much to learn from.

Finally, I add that I too strongly believe that successive RW Israeli administrations, have so obviated any ''Two State Solution''.. so as to make inevitable - ''The One State Solution'' that was eventually to resolve South Africa's Apartheid State of Affairs! Also fyi, see:

respcice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 1 points by AlwaysIntoSomething (42) 10 years ago

It's too bad everyone sold Jill down the river, the conversations we are having would look dramatically different. Not sure if she would be able to lead it through or not, but at least it would be a start.

Interesting article here on military occupations in Palestine.


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''What If ? - A New Years Dream'', by Emanuel E. Garcia :

Jill Stein spoke for millions of Americans ... if only they had got to hear what she said !!!

Many thanx for the strong link !! A 'HNY 4 2014' to you & yours, wherever they may be !

pax, amor et lux ...

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

does israel need access to a sea port?

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 10 years ago

So xactly how are the greens going to stop the problem?

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

The Greens can't ''stop the problem'' on their own but they can perhaps help to prise open the extremely limited terms of debate about Israel/Palestine in the US. If you read the short OP, you would have read but maybe not noted for example :

''United States policy regarding Israel and Palestine must be revised to make international law, peace and human rights for all people, no matter their religion or nationality, the central priorities. While the U.S. government sometimes voices support for this principle in name, in practice U.S policy towards Palestine and Israel has violated this principle more often than not.

''In particular, the United States has encouraged the worst tendencies of the Israeli government as it pursues policies of occupation, apartheid, assassination, illegal settlements, blockades, building of nuclear bombs, indefinite detention, collective punishment, and defiance of international law.

''Instead of allying with the courageous proponents of peace within Israel and Palestine, our government has rewarded consistent abusers of human rights. There is no peace or justice or democracy at the end of such a path. We must reset U.S. policy regarding Israel and Palestine, as part of a broader revision of U.S. policy towards the Middle East.'' Also please try to consider :

fiat lux, fiat justitia, fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by forourfutures (393) 10 years ago

I know they have lots of reasons to end the middle east conflicts, but what political or social strategy are they proposing?

They tend to be directed by academic types that are the pinnacle of the effect of the dumbing down.

[-] 1 points by Orwellwuzright (-84) from Lockeford, CA 11 years ago

Fuck so called international law. Other than that I agree with much of what she says.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

"International Law" - such as it is, is all we have for now. Also, please see :

I would especially draw your attention to 'The Footnote' at the end of the article.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8310) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Jill Stein is a "useful fool' just like trump and flynn




[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Let's go a bit further and say that USA policy to the world needs to change. Export peace - export the ability to end strife over fossil fuel resources - the strife to have abundant electrical energy and abundant transportation - which makes a society able to address it's issues of providing clean water of harvesting fields of food crops of getting the food crops transported to every corner of those societies of getting Dr.s out to see to the population and gives the population a better access to their city centers of education and health care.

It is not just a matter of not supporting violence it is a matter of addressing the causes of violence. Politics and Religion are easier to discuss rationally when your people are not starving or dying of thirst or disease or lack of care facilities.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

To "export peace" we must love, nurture and cherish Peace & decry WAR ; The US-MIC War Economy and the apologists for more war, who will always find it easy to say ...

"The government generally relies on marshalling patriotic emotion and reflexive loyalty rather than on making a sensible case for going to war. Much of the discussion that does take place is a sham because the government officials who pretend to listen to other opinions, as U.S. leaders did most recently during 2002 and early 2003, have already decided what they are going to do, no matter what other people may say. The rulers know that once the war starts, nearly everybody will fall into line and “support the troops”."

pax et lux ; hic et ubique ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

Thank you - you have just provided more emphasis to the fact that the people need to continue to band together to make change towards building a peaceful prosperous and healthy society that works towards doing the same for the rest of the world and for All peoples.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Thus "Come Together" and chant with a harmonious collective 'primal scream' :

shalom aleichem ; salam alaikum ; pax vobiscum ; om shaanti om ...

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago


And when we come together - we can learn how to fly far and high like - A Free Bird.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Free Bird ! Cool , ~i~ , pax ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 11 years ago

In a Big Country. Stay Alive. {:-])

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Actually, that is a really special song for me. Thus with Israel/Palestine in mind, I append the following :

As - PEACE is for us all and Paternalistic, Abrahamic, Monotheistic Mumbo-Jumbo has served us so poorly to date. Consider, 'Spiritual Supremacism' is but a tiny breath away from 'Racial Supremacism' !!

pax et lux ...

[-] -1 points by ThomasKent (131) 10 years ago

There have been natural barriers keeping populations apart. Now cultures that have developed in isolation are squeezed together in urban situations. Fairness is not part of the equation. No one can be satisfied. Christians have less to say about the problem, but on the technicality Jews and Muslims are anti-Christians, Christians have concerns. Is there any better solution for the long term problem than apartheid?

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Apartheid is not a solution to anything at all, for goodness sake !!!

It's at best a delay of the inevitable - ever heard of South Africa ?!!

By the way ... you do know that Muslims believe in Jesus right ?!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by ThomasKent (131) 10 years ago

Muslims regard Jesus as a prophet perhaps, not as Divine. I think the question was asking for a better solution for the long term. This would mark the passage of time in terms of centuries rather than years or decades. South African apartheid lasted less than 50 years by comparison Christianity has been around for over 2000 years.

Jews started killing Christians from day 1, but Jerusalem was not founded by the Jews. Jerusalem existed 2000 years before David became king. Jerusalem was under the Roman Empire from before the time of Christ until the Muslim Arabs conquered it in 634. Christianity became the state religion of the Romans. Christianity shaped Western Civilization for over 1000 years. Constantinople stood as a capital of Christendom for over a thousand years until captured by Ottoman Turks in 1453.

In terms of centuries there has always been a state of war between Jews, Christians and Muslims, much like a virus that is dormant for years, suddenly becomes virulent and kills the host.

Religion might be our undoing. The separation of Church and State is nothing to be played with. Is our government capable of defending the Constitution or will it be further weakened by pandering to special interests?

Abraham Foxman, president of the Anti-Defamation League, told Politico that former Sen. Rick Santorum's appearance at an event hosted by another Messianic Jewish organization, the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America, was "insensitive and offensive."

The USA is taking sides in a three-way contest. Christians are being outflanked. Santorum, a Roman Catholic, founded the Congressional Working Group on Religious Freedom in 2003. Santorum sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act (WRFA) with U.S. Senator John Kerry (D-MA). The bill first was introduced in 2002 with 15 co-sponsors but did not leave committee. Santorum and Kerry re-introduced it in 2005 with a corresponding House bill, also to no avail. John Kerry has subsequently brought it to committee again in 2008 and 2010. The Jewish Council for Public Affairs came out in strong support of the measure.

Technically the Christian theological theory holds that Easter obsoletes Yom Kippur. Christians should be offended by it. How can Christians celebrate their religion in its pure form with Jews and Muslims practicing theirs in the same town?

Christians have fled or are persecuted in countries dominated by Islam.

Christians Flee Syria


Christians Flee Nigeria


Christians Flee Middle East


Christians Flee Iraq


Christians Flee Egypt


The special relationship Israel has with the USA, and political activities initiated by elected officials, which may not be Constitutional, create a hazard for Christians around the world.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''Technically the Christian theological theory holds that Easter obsoletes Yom Kippur. Christians should be offended by it. How can Christians celebrate their religion in its pure form with Jews and Muslims practicing theirs in the same town?'' OMGosh !!! How'd I miss this ?!! R U 4 real ?! Now lookey here :

You do get that the man you call Jesus (Yeshua?) was a practising (sic) Jewish person (possibly of royal, Davidic lineage) who would have been mortified at the blasphemy of anyone regarding him as 'consubstantive' with G-d, let alone formulating a new cult / creed around that, right ?! Weird, huh ?

Heard of Constantine? Or the Councils of Nicea, Alexandria, Carthage, Troyes, Whitby etc.? Judaism, Christianity, Islam ... all this Abrahamic Mumbo-Jumbo is leading us all down the toilet bowl of history as we strive to move forward whilst constantly looking back and still we wonder why we end up on our asses ! Sorry - I did not look at any of your links - just not my bag - but somewhat hypocritically, I do recommend my own link !! FUCK Religion ; OHMMMmmm 4 spiRitUality ~i~ !!! Merry Christ Mash ;-)

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 1 points by ThomasKent (131) 10 years ago

I have heard of Constantine.


atheism is overrated...

We choose to go to the Moon


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Yes, 'aetheism' is overrated but then again 'TK' ... so is 'theism' ;-)

Nice link to the Milvian Bridge & ergo .. in hoc signo vinces <3~:-)

Thanx for the nice JFK video and the quotes above & 'HNY 4 2014'.

pax vobis. ...

[-] 1 points by crazytalk (1) from New York, NY 10 years ago

Why and how is atheism overrated? It's a simple position using logic. We don't believe in things that have no evidence of existing. Nothing more. If anything, it's underrated. It's the strongest position in relation to God there is. Everyone on earth should adopt it.

[-] 9 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Spoken like a true 'zero sum game' simpleton !!! You show no instinct at all for when 'physics' touches 'metaphysics' !! Consider 'T', that : ''Man does not live by bread alone'' !

I like Richard Dawkins & have several of his books but he's an 'MSR'--'Militant Scientific Rationalist', who seems to lose sight of the ever evolving frontiers of science. Recently 'Theoretical Physics' (sic) tells us that ALL our known physics can only really account for about 3% of The Universe because the observed gravitational effects and equations do not work without an allusion to a 'constant' of ~97% - which is now termed 'Dark Matter & Dark Energy', ie. stuff (and 'dimensions' ?!) we just can't explain ! Now think 'Dark Entities' !! Then calmly try to ask yourself, how you came to be possessed by several of those, lololol !!!

nosce te ipsum ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 years ago



[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 10 years ago

Logic is insufficient to attain all truths - look up Goedel's proof. There are truths that lie BEYOND the provably true. Perhaps our current logic system is defective by assuming binary truth values of either true or false. In any case, we should recognize that logic has its limits for now.

[-] 6 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

Gödel's proof or rather Gödel's incompleteness theorems do not support the statements that

"Logic is insufficient to attain all truths"


"There are truths that lie BEYOND the provably true."

The conclusions of Gödel's theorems are only proven for the formal theories that satisfy the necessary hypotheses. Not all axiom systems satisfy these hypotheses, even when these systems have models that include the natural numbers as a subset. For example, there are first-order axiomatizations of Euclidean geometry, of real closed fields, and of arithmetic in which multiplication is not provably total; none of these meet the hypotheses of Gödel's theorems. The key fact is that these axiomatizations are not expressive enough to define the set of natural numbers or develop basic properties of the natural numbers. Regarding the third example, Dan Willard (2001) has studied many weak systems of arithmetic which do not satisfy the hypotheses of the second incompleteness theorem, and which are consistent and capable of proving their own consistency (see self-verifying theories).

Gödel's theorems only apply to effectively generated (that is, recursively enumerable) theories. If all true statements about natural numbers are taken as axioms for a theory, then this theory is a consistent, complete extension of Peano arithmetic (called true arithmetic) for which none of Gödel's theorems apply in a meaningful way, because this theory is not recursively enumerable.

The second incompleteness theorem only shows that the consistency of certain theories cannot be proved from the axioms of those theories themselves. It does not show that the consistency cannot be proved from other (consistent) axioms. For example, the consistency of the Peano arithmetic can be proved in Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory (ZFC), or in theories of arithmetic augmented with transfinite induction, as in Gentzen's consistency proof.


The fact of the matter is that no state of affairs can be publicly known to be true without demonstratable knowledge of that state of affairs being true. The only state of affairs that an individual can know to be true that cannot be proved to other's is that individual's private psychological state.

[-] 3 points by grapes (5232) 10 years ago

If we keep on augmenting the axioms of an axiomatic system, we can obviously arrive at a state of affairs where all known truths are either provably true or axiomatically true.

I ask for example if it is truly "playing fair" to include Goldbach's Conjecture that every even natural number greater than two is the sum of two prime numbers as being axiomatically true for the natural numbers. 4=2+2, 6=3+3, 8=3+5, 10=5+5, 12=5+7, 14=7+7, etc. Should this statement be provable in a countably finite number of steps using a minimal set of axioms sufficient to generate the natural numbers? No one seems to know. I think it is a cop-out by mathematicians to include unproven conjectures as axioms.

It may be fair game though if it is truly "too hard" as happened for Riemann's Conjecture. If we accept that 150 years of mathematics counting on it being true can be flushed out as garbage, we can certainly allow ourselves to play for a LONG while in the world of make-believe.

There is also the reality check to reckon with. I believe that if a subset of mathematics proves insufficient to span the realm of science, it should be rejected as deficient or defective.

The mere interaction of individuals can change the private psychological states of them but there is no such thing as a truly private psychological state to begin with because we are falling into the trap of object-oriented programming's model rather than the more general and applicable field concept of physics.

[-] 4 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

The claim to "falling into the trap of object-oriented programming's model" does not invalidate the fact of private psychological states. Any thoughts or emotions one experiences beyond the knowledge of others are private psychological states or more precisely, private psychological experiences. Whether or not a psychological experience is considered to be 'truly' private by involvement of perhaps some application of brain monitoring equipment doesn't invalidate the fact that at any given time, individuals are having psychological experiences that are beyond the knowledge of everyone else thereby making those experiences private and any truths as to the nature of those experiences only known to the individual. Any truths to be publicly known outside of an individual's private psychological experience cannot be known to be true without either deductive or observable demonstration.

[-] 3 points by grapes (5232) 10 years ago

Private psychological states must eventually have external demonstrations to be valid which make them not private. Our thinking of them having an independent existence prior to the demonstrations is illusory because to know a state is to measure it and measurement changes the state. Quantum computing counts on that fact of not measuring the state while computing to break through the computational time barrier. Quantum phenomena underly everything, psychological states included. A private psychological state exists for all practical purposes due to the macroscopic nature of our brains but the probability of its being in a specific state is always less than one. If you allow a superposition of different states to be called a state, we can be in agreement.

[-] 4 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

"Private psychological states must eventually have external demonstrations to be valid which make them not private."

No, private psychological states must only be experienced by an individual without observation by anyone else to be private. No external validity is required of what one knows or observes of one's self. External validity is only required of things to be publicly known.

Public observations of individuals in general verify the existence of psychological states such as emotions in others but without a means of literally reading an individual's mind, the particulars of an individual's psychological state remain known only to that individual and are thus private.

[-] 3 points by grapes (5232) 10 years ago

Private psychological states are very much things of the past due to globalization, security obsession, technological advances, and the widespread belief in the scientific, state security, political, business, and technological communities that what can be done to monitor private psychological states SHOULD be done for power, profits, and fun, as has already been made extremely clear by the recent revelations courtesy of Edward Snowden. There are ongoing undertakings to make private psychological states available to the eel-ite-s for detailed examinations. Previous claims of widespread "security" monitoring fell short of "habeas corpus," a bit like why O.J. Simpson was not convicted of murders but was found guilty of wrongful deaths. Subsequent revelations proved the tin-foil-hat people CORRECT!

I was "paranoid" too due to observations regarding the dark-looking building at NSA headquarter. The most paranoid people turned out to be the ones in the best position to know the truths about monitoring. Stuxnet had the signature of long-term early involvement of the NSA.

Privacy is an artificial construct and is rapidly becoming a thing of the past so I am acting accordingly. If I am being monitored for my private psychological states, their picking through my digital imprints may as well give them a mindful about my intentions. Whether it is due to naivete or ignorance, the nonchalant attitudes of the youngs about being monitored speak volumes about what people being constantly monitored turn into - cookie monsters - plastering their brains all over their digital (Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, etc.) walls for the whole world to see. Num num, cowabunga!

[-] 4 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

Private psychological states are very much a thing of the present and shall remain so until the day comes that everyone is either directly hooked up to or scanned by advanced brain monitoring technology.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 10 years ago

Everyone IS either hooked up to or connected to advanced brain monitoring technology through other people (how else did the secret/neighborhood/political/thought police worldwide have worked to maintain authoritarian/autocratic/state rule? Gestapo, Stasi, KGB, cadre police, Mossad, CIA, FBI, FSB, MI5, MI6, GCHQ, etc.) and electronic equipments (GPS, cameras, and microphones in cellular phones, smart phones, tablet laptop desktop computers, social media [Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Snapchat, etc.], google, yahoo, security cameras [in-home, stores, workplaces, banks, hospitals, clinics, roadway speed or traffic monitoring, subways, buses, trains, stations and terminals, airports, etc.], wi-fi routers [in-home, library, Starbuck, Whole Foods, etc.], network bridges, central office electronic switching systems, fiber optic cable terminals, LANs, WANs, store cash registers, electronic shopping carts, MasterCard, Visa, Discover, ATMs, bank transactions, financial settlement apparatus and trading platforms, RFID swipe cards in workplaces, cameras and scanning equipments at airports, drones, low-orbit satellites, multiband communication satellites, etc.).

With Big-Data Initiatives underway, signal processing techniques, and facial recognition software, all of these tidbits will soon yield total information awareness or near-zero privacy. Everything IS physical, including mind-space, security-space, and cyber-space. No one can escape, save Adam Lanza's private psychological state.

[-] 5 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

Everyone IS NOTeither hooked up to or connected to advanced brain monitoring technology. No one with any kind of current equipment can read the thoughts of random individuals. Everyone's thoughts remain private which is why whistleblowers are never preempted and captured Muslim militants are tortured for information that is otherwise beyond access in their private thoughts.

[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 10 years ago

"Everyone IS NOTeither hooked up to or connected to advanced brain monitoring technology. No one with any kind of current equipment can read the thoughts of random individuals. Everyone's thoughts remain private which is why whistleblowers are never preempted and captured Muslim militants are tortured for information that is otherwise beyond access in their private thoughts."

Right now, not everyone is under universal surveillance (partly because of the lack of interest) but the Omni-Net IS being built with Tera/terror-funding as we swoosh along the asymptotes into the Singularity. Anyone in any advanced modern society can be subject to circumstantial inference about their private psychological state. Mind you that it is a long tradition in human societies to put people onto death rows based on circumstantial evidence. Drones that can read car license plates and recognize faces will soon be enhanced in other ways to augment sensors already in place to provide more continuous monitoring. It is not much harder than switching cellular phone coverage from one cell-phone tower to another.

[-] 1 points by ThomasKent (131) 10 years ago

People have been reporting supernatural forces since ancient times.

Believe in extraterrestials -

Luke 1:34-36

Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

34 And Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no husband?” 35 And the angel said to her,

“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born[a] will be called holy, the Son of God.

36 And behold, your kinswoman Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month with her who was called barren.

[-] -1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 11 years ago

Roseanne has a much better plan in regards to the Palestinians- give them lots of money. They don't look like they have much at all.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''The Illusion of Israeli/Palestinian Peace for Our Time'', by Stephen Lendman :

''Democratic legitimacy requires one nation for all its people. It does so irrespective of race, religion, ethnicity, or other differentiating factors.

''It requires mandating equal rights, observing international law principles, and ending decades of occupation, colonization and apartheid.

''It requires treating Arabs and Jews equally. It means establishing binding statutes. It requires enforcing them. It's about commitment for the right thing.''

fiat lux, fiat pax, fiat justitia ...

[-] 5 points by Ache4Change (3340) 10 years ago
[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Extraordinary link !!! Norman Finklestein's cold hard logic is kinda breathtaking !! Thanx A4C ! In return and at a slight tangent for now, I append and recommend :

All things are connected - eventually, some directly and obviously & some less clearly but no less so.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 5 points by Ache4Change (3340) 10 years ago

That Glenn Greenwald piece is as alarming as it is fascinating. Thanks for both links. Also see this excellent DemocracyNow video - http://www.nationofchange.org/nsa-confirms-dragnet-phone-records-collection-admits-it-was-key-stopping-just-1-terror-plot-13753709 and given the Bradley Manning verdict yesterday, you might also be interested in -

http://www.nationofchange.org/top-ten-ways-bradley-manning-changed-world-1375364969 and


Never Give Up Trying To Hold Onto What's Left Of Our Liberty! Occupy Democracy! Solidarity

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''Edward Snowden Is a Patriot : Ex-NSA CIA, FBI and Justice Whistleblowers Meet Leaker in Moscow'', by Amy Goodman :

Thanx for the great links, sorry it took so long to reply.

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 6 points by Ache4Change (3340) 10 years ago

No problem. I just apologised for a slow reply myself elsewhere and got down voted for my trouble, lol. Thanks for the great Snowden link and a very interesting link about Glenn Greenwald. They're two very courageous and remarkable men. More in keeping with your thread though, I just sent you this link on another thread but will do so again here - http://www.nationofchange.org/blogs/lawrence-davidson/two-state-solution-or-illusion-1380049239 . Never Give Up! Go Occupy (everything but The West Bank)! Solidarity.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

A deep, sad and striking piece from Lawrence Davidson and I wholeheartedly recommend your thought provoking link to all serious readers who are interested in these matters & in compliment, I append fyi :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3340) 10 years ago

Both Snowden and Hedges speak truth to power. Thanks for two very good links, to two great articles, from two courageous people. Powerful stuff. Also by Lawrence Davidson, please try to further consider - http://www.nationofchange.org/blogs/lawrence-davidson/zionism-versus-diplomacy-and-peace-1381247884 . Never Give Up! Occupy The Light. Solidarity.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''Members of Congress who consistently support the political Zionist position are usually motivated by something other than ideology. They are motivated by money. That does not necessarily make them bad people, it just makes them slaves to a bad political system. The ability to call into question their financial allegiance to the Zionists is readily possible when a publicly recognized difference evolves between the desires of the voters who put them in office and the desires of this particular special interest. That now seems to be happening in the case of U.S. foreign policy toward Iran.'' from your strong Lawrence Davidson link & further to the Snowden piece :

“Her entire approach to this issue has been to do damage control for the NSA…. She is an apologist and a flack for the surveillance state, she is aligned with the Obama White House with that agenda, and we at the grassroots must push back against that kind of a politics.”

qui tacet consentire ...

[-] 4 points by Ache4Change (3340) 10 years ago

'The Big Question the National Security State isn't Asking' - http://www.nationofchange.org/big-question-national-security-state-isn-t-asking-1384439739 . Diane Feinstein is an establishment stooge in charge of overseeing the most secret parts of The Establishment! What's wrong with that picture? Thank you for a very revealing (no pun intended!) link. Never Give Up Exposing Secrecy! Occupy Openness! Solidarity!

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Re. ''Diane Feinstein is an establishment stooge in charge of overseeing the most secret parts of The Establishment! What's wrong with that picture?'' succinctly & accurately put and the answer would be ''Covering Up and Obfuscating''. Thanx for another very good 'NoC' article by David Lindorff, from which :

''What Alexander and his truth-challenged boss Clapper are not considering, though, is whether there is also a bigger question: Isn’t maintaining democratic freedoms and the trust of the American people more important than collecting every possible datum of information about them, and monitoring their every move and every communication? - The answer, of course, is obvious, which is why Alexander and Clapper are not asking it.'' Also fyi :

fiat lux ; fiat pax ; fiat jiustitia ...

[-] 1 points by ttimery (7) from Pittsburgh, PA 10 years ago

Are you aware of the work by Cyril Takayama?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

In a word - 'no' and tho' of course I can research later ; links &/or a synopsis would be appreciated.

pax ...

[-] 1 points by ttimery (7) from Pittsburgh, PA 10 years ago

He's a semi-famous magician. Google him. But, that's only a front. He's paid a lot of money to engineer illusions for the US government.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

There is the South African paradigm of 'Truth and Reconciliation' and One Person ; One Vote ; One Democratic State for all between the sea and river, to possibly consider.

multum in parvo ...

[-] -3 points by bensdad (8977) 11 years ago

How many times have American presidents tried to broker a deal between the two -
and had the Palestinians back out ?
How many Jews are in the Palestinian cabinet or legislature ? 0 How many Mulims/Arabs are in the Israeli cabinet or legislature ? 12

Lets get down to the real nitty-gritty-
one of the main reasons Israel is such a success is based on the support of Jews from around the world.
one of the main reasons "Palestine" is such a basket case is based on the NON-support of Arabs/Muslim countries from around the world.

imagine what would happen if all of the Arab/Muslim counties used just 1% of their oil revenues to train Palestinians and build infrastructure
Maybe there are reasons for that -
and reasons why Israel assimilated Jews from around the world
but Jordan refused to assimilate its brothers.

When Arabs controlled the temple mount, no Jews were allowed.
Now that Israel does, everyone is allowed

The two sides are not equally at fault for this

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Would you like me to deconstruct your comment or do you actually stand by all that you say there ?

minima maxima sunt ...

[+] -5 points by mideast (506) 11 years ago

GAZA: part 1 of 2
In our recent elections, it would be very hard to come up with a more
significant reason for the republican losses than the fact that
the republicans told the truth about themselves.
Why can’t we also learn the truth from what the “Palestinian people”
say about the “Palestinian people” ?

On March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with
Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein.

”The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a “Palestinian state” is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese.
Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a “Palestinian people”, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

“For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a “Palestinian”, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem.”

Truth does not change. Truth is truth.
If something was true 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, it is still true today.
And the truth is that only 30 years ago, there was very little confusion on this issue of Palestine.
You might remember the late Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir making virtually the same statement: “There is no such thing as a Palestinian people.” The statement has been a source of ridicule and derision by Arab propagandists ever since. They love to talk about Golda Meir’s “racism and bigotry and hate mongering.” They love to suggest she was in historical denial. They love to say her statement is patently false – an intentional lie, a strategic deception –
but is source from a PLO leader!

What they don’t like to talk about, however, are the very similar statements made by Yasser Arafat and his inner circle of political leadership years after Meir had told the truth –
that there is no distinct Palestinian cultural or national identity.

Pretty clear, isn’t it? It is even more specific than Golda Meir’s statement. And it is hardly the only such statement of its kind. Arafat himself made a very definitive and unequivocal statement along these lines as late as 1993.
It demonstrates conclusively that the Palestinian nationhood argument is the real strategic deception – one geared to set up the destruction of Israel.

On the same day Arafat ( who was born in CAIRO EGYPT ) signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, Arafat stated:
“Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of “Palestine”, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel.”

No matter how many people delude themselves that the aspirations for Palestinian statehood are genuine and the key to peace in the Middle East, they are still deceiving themselves. In the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as “Palestine” was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I.
The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland. In recent decades, parts have been “occupied” by Egypt and Israel. It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.
Why now has it become such a critical priority?
The answer is because of a massive deception campaign and relentless terrorism over 40 years.
Golda Meir was telling the truth. Her statement is validated by the truth of history and by the candid, but not widely circulated, pronouncements of Arafat and his lieutenants.
Israel and the West must not surrender to terrorism by granting the killers just what they want – a public relations triumph and a strategic victory. It’s not too late to say no to terrorism. It’s not too late to say no to another Arab terror state to launch attacks at the only Jewish state. It’s not too late to tell the truth about Palestine.
……………………………………………. by Joseph Farah

Are you afraid to believe Farah & Muhsein & Arafat ?

Are there any historical errors in these clips ? IN THESE CLIPS





CELEBRATING 9/11 6.02 ▬►

A FEW OF THE CRIMES OF ISLAM – “THE RELIGION OF PEACE” ▬► we can’t stop this if we don’t acknowledge this & understand this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J_cqtdH26c&NR=1&feature=endscreen


WHAT IS THE WEST BANK 6.17 ▬► http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq6tDmLNPjU&feature=endscreen&NR=1



BEAT WOMEN 2.15 ▬►

ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE [ INTELLIGENCE SQUARED DEBATE ] at NYU: debate with two advocates on each side 1.46.36 ▬►





All Israelis are not good. All Israelis are not bad.
All Arabs are not good. All Arabs are not bad.
All Jews are not good. All Jews are not bad.
All Muslims are not good. All Muslims are not bad.

But, sadly, numbers are numbers
Since 1948, Israel has killed 35,000 Arabs/Muslims
Since 1948, Arabs/Muslims have killed 11,000,000 Arabs/Muslims

I do not hate Arabs or Palestinians – but we cannot hope to solve the middle east problem unless we understand what these people believe. And sadly, it will be as easy as ending the generations of anti-minority - homophobic - anti-woman beliefs so skillfully taught by parents and religions in the confederate states for generations.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear !!! Yes, you do "hate Arabs and Palestinians", bensdad !! Don't lie so badly and blatantly, as I asked you elsewhere - are the above and below, what's termed "hasbara" ?!

Your last sentence plugs in totally and echoes very clearly the whole 'Clash Of Civilisation' narrative, as espoused by Samuel Huntington and so beloved of Neo-Cons, yet you make out that you're some kind of progressive whereas you behave and think like an illiberal, right-wing, nationalist for Israel. I'm gonna go to the bathroom now, come back, roll a wee medicinal exotic cigarette and then slap you straight in the mouth in reply to your somewhat unhinged comments above & below, so expect a "part 2 of 2" too.

ne quid nimis ?

[-] 1 points by TropicalDepression (-45) 10 years ago

Its just another hating neocon.

Someone here had a dictionary article on Palestine from the 40s. Plain as day, there is was. Palestine. With Transjordan to the north.

I guess after our Democrat president - to our special friend who is obviously paid by them- nuked two cities to death, and we marched into the ME and carved it up, thats all it takes for people to think something.

[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Are there some forum rules that I'm unaware of ?!!! I've had a reply comment here kinda shadow banned 'cause I can see it but apparently no one else can !! Trigger happy moding and gatekeeping for any other entity other than The 99% is a bit naughty, transparent and ultimately - counter-productive ! I can't really be bothered to repeat the whole thing but here are the salient links, though I'm very far from impressed :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...



[+] -5 points by mideast (506) 11 years ago

GAZA: part 2 of 2
A few more clips that I believe show the truth.
I would be interested to see any evidence of factual errors in these clips.
Clips about the poor conditions in Gaza or military actions by Israel do not disprove Arafat’s statements or thousands of attacks on Israeli civilians by bus bombs or rockets. There MUST be at least one or two errors in the hundreds of historical facts posted here. Can you find them?

Harry Truman immediately approved the state of Israel –
did he hate Arabs because so many Arabs fought against the Allies - for Hitler?
I do not know.
Jimmy Carter & Bill Clinton pushed the PLO and the PA to sign a deal –
did they hate Arabs?

I do not hate Arabs or Palestinians – but we cannot hope to solve the middle east problem unless we understand what these people believe.
I believe that paying a parent to send their child to their deaths to kill people
[ as in Mumbai ] is nothing less than inhuman.
Not the bomber,
not the parents,
but the paymaster & the Imam.
Maybe you disagree?

Have you read the Quran? I have read 20%-25% in at least three translations.
Do you believe in fatwas? Does Ayaan Hirsi Ali hate Islam? Does Salmon Rushdie?
Have you ever heard radical Imams & Muslims spewing hate and violence –
Listen – if you dare - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njRKaX0ORuI
Do you know what taqiyya is?








Most Arab states are not apartheid – they threw out the Jews

ROCKETS 21.16 ▬►




The truth is the truth – not bigotry or hatred.
Some people do evil. For money. For power. For religion.

American soldiers gave smallpox infected blankets to native Americans.
Bush’s cronies approved torture. Southern traitors started a war against America & their descendents celebrate it!
BP killed oil rig workers.
Spanish catholics burned Spanish Jews.
The truth is the truth – not bigotry or hatred.
Some people do evil. For money. For power. For religion.

Pre 1948 - How did the nation of Israel get it's land?

"At the end of World War I, some of “Palestine's” land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80% of the resident Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.
Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73% of Jewish plots were purchases from large landowners, not poor Arabs."
-- quoted from The Peel Commission (1937)

"The Arab charge that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when purchased. There was at the time at least of earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land. Jews paid more than $20 million (at 1936 rates) to Arab landowners, mostly large estate holders. In 1944, Jews paid between $1000 and $1100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semi-arid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre
(U.S. Dept. of Agriculture)" --Land Ownership in Palestine, 1880-1948

According to British government statistics,
prior to the establishment of the State of Israel,

8.6% of the land area now known as Israel was owned by Jews;
3.3% by Arabs who remained there;
16.5% by Arabs who left the country.
More than 70% of the land was owned by the British Government.
Under international law, ownership passed to Israel in 1948.
The public lands included most of the Negev Desert --half of Palestine's post-1922 total area
--1948 Survey by British Mandate Government

Further UN estimates put the value of property loses of Jews kicked out of Arab countries after 1948 at 10 times the value of those lost by Arabs.
Most Jews in Israel are from Arab countries, not from Europe.
So the issue of the injustice done TO the Jews of Arab countries BY Arabs is relevant,
as are reparations.
Not all Jews are white New Yorkers. 60% of Jews are not what you might call caucasian. All the way up until 1970 Israel had a policy of repayment or replacement for anyone who could prove his claim. Around 10% of the refugees used this policy, while others refused .

From 1920 to 1948 Jewish organizations accepted partition plans that gave the Jewish state as little as 20% of the current state of Israel. The Arabs refused the deal or any compromise.
From the 1850's to 1948, 90% of the land Jews lived on was purchased at very high prices from Arabs. The rest was uninhabited land and passed from the British government to the Israeli government, under international law. In 1948, any Arab that stayed in Israel became Israeli citizens with full rights to vote and form political parties. Most fled, anticipating that the Arab armies would quickly defeat Israel, and they could return home, without being thought of as traitors. Now whose fault is it for deserting? In 1948 at the creation of the State of Israel, Jews who lived in all of the Arab countries were forced out or harassed. The land lost by Jews who fled was estimated by the UN to be worth ten times that of any property lost by Arabs who fled Israel in 1948. When will the Jews be reimbursed? In 1948 Jordan expanded its borders and stole the West Bank from what was part of Israel before the 1948 war__, a piece that was NEVER inside the Jordan borders. In 1967, Israel took it back as a buffer from the combined half a dozen Arab armies that were poised to attack the lone Jewish state. It was expected that Arab states would make peace and Israel would return the land within a few months. The Arab states refused to negotiate with Israel. ……………………………………1994 by David Carasso.

▬►Why didn’t the PLO / PA accept any of the MANY two state solutions proposed by Israel & America and backed by many Arab leaders in the last few decades?
▬►If the Arab nations were interested in peace or simply aiding their brethren ,
they would support the West Bank as part of Jordan AND Gaza as part of Egypt
( as it was occupied by Egypt 1948-1967 ).
▬►And they would be using their oil billions to send food to Gaza in stead of guns & rockets.
▬►If the Gazan militants were really fighting for the Gazan people,
they would not launch their rockets from civilian neighborhoods.
▬►Yes - Gaza is occupied - by Hamas and their terrorist militants

Each of the Arab oil giants will deliver a half million dollars
worth of food to Israel every day for a year for Israel to deliver to Gaza.
a half million dollars worth of food every day to give to Gaza.

Let Hamas and Abbas follow Arafat and to try to turn that down! Despite numerous appeals by Israel to negotiate, Abbas refuses.
Here are a few Abbas quotes:
"A Jewish state, what is that supposed to mean? You can call yourselves as you like, but I don't accept it and I say so publicly."(27 April 2009)
"We have frankly said, and always will say: If there is an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, we won’t agree to the presence of one Israeli in it." (25 December 2010)
"It - the Arab rejection of the 1947 UN Partition Plan to divide Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state - was our mistake. It was an Arab mistake as a whole."

Also- I believe in a three state solution: Israel + Gaza + West Bank

How would you deal with a geo-political adversary who worships a book:
Quran: 2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out,
for persecution is worse than slaughter…..Such is the reward of disbelievers. And yes, Jews have the Bible & Christians have the New Testament, but they don’t kill people who burn their books - or draw anti-religious pictures. We cannot ignore these truths.

AGAIN – I ask for the truth – if any these facts are false, post the evidence

[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 11 years ago

The only people reading your unhinged bigotry are people like yourself but as promised, here's p2/2 to you and your ideas of "geo-political adversary". I could write at length but will take a leaf from your play book and use links, tho' of course mine will not be bigoted, desperate or hysterical !

You just continue to keep plying the cheap, prejudiced, vulgar propaganda and I'll reply with scholarship and it won't be lashing out - it'll just be dispassionately batting you out of the ball park, as - as I've pointed out to you before, you're clearly a wannabe bully and actual bigot.

Thus, I again refer you to Prof. Shlomo Sand ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shlomo_Sand ) and his now famous book, here appended in its entirety :

If you have the gumption to engage with that, you can then graduate to :

7 links in all and only one video but I don't feel the need to prove anything to you as I suspect that you have a very biased and limited perspective on 'proof' ; 'history' ; 'evidence' or 'accuracy', so I shall leave others to gauge the tone and content here. Remember again 'bensdad', your spamming prejudicial crap on this forum is not without karmic consequence and here endeth your smack in the mouth - for now !!

Finally, just one, two-part question - do you believe in 'Universal Human Rights' or not ? Read if you dare & go on bensdad - try calling me what you tried to call me before and see what I come back with.

ad iudicium ...