Forum Post: This movement has no purpose and will never change anything.
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 16, 2012, 11:34 a.m. EST by America921
(161)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I went on this website about 3 months ago and have been visiting it frequently. I wanted to learn more about this movement. I soon began to realize that this movement has no purpose, has no goals, has no plan of attack. This whole leaderless movement stuff is bull. Every great movement that was successful had a leader, i.e. The Civil Rights Movement. This movement does not represent the 99%. Majority of the people in this movement have miserable lives and want to bring down other people's lives. Capitalism is not failing; it has it's failings and the economy will go up and down. The economy right now would be growing if France. Spain, and Greece were not bankrupt and putting the EU on the edge of complete collapse. Capitalism is the best system we have. My great Grandparents came here with nothing and died very successful people. Socialism and Communism do not account for the Human condition. They sound great, I am the first to admit that, but they do not work in the real world. This movement supports Communism, something that this country will never accept. Why? Because we spent almost 50 years fighting the spread of it. Socialism has failed in Greece, France, and Spain. This movement will never change anything, will never be organized, will never receive the nation's attention. This is just like the 60's. It will fail, but of course people will claim that they changed things but atlas it will not. Don't write me off as some Troll or a lassy for the 1% you claim to fight. It's beneath you and childish. I have a right to voice my opinion and anyone who says otherwise is a poor excuse for a human being.
GOD BLESS AMERICA.
America921, because of your sincerity I think you deserve to get an answer for your trouble, but I apologize in advance that I am not the most knowledgable person to give it. I also have been on here for several months, mostly just listening and my understanding of OWS has grown and changed constantly. One of the biggest turn-offs to me was hearing certain radicals advocate stockpiling weapons and that almost ended it for me. I do not and will not ever support that. But I realized those promoting violent acts do not represent OWS, maybe a small minority on here. How is this different from any other protest movement in history ? OWS is populated by the most diverse crowd imaginable. But the numbers say something and those who would insinuate that all the complainers just decided to join forces are short-sighted indeed. OWS’ diversity is one of it’s strengths - and one of it’s weaknesses if your expectation is that OWS is the be all and the end all to change. To me they have a particular function to serve, so that hopefully other groups can form and continue the work that needs to be done. OWS will create offspring. I’m no longer so turned off by the lack of cohesion and clarity because I realize, it is what it is. (but I think that also will improve). Due to its inclusive nature, no one will ultimately get exactly what they want from OWS, nevertheless, there is good work being accomplished here. For that reason, I respect every single person out there Occupying, even if some don’t fully even understand what they’re protesting. These people are doing the dirty work. Some of them have been out in the cold for months leaving whatever creature comforts they may have behind to lend a hand. The differing ideologies, the fringe, the attraction to the movement of the mentally ill, homeless and uneducated members, there is no getting around. It’s a protest. I also disagree with the leaderless aspect. But leaders will eventually emerge, if not in this movement then FROM this movement. Like the song said, “something’s happening here, what it is ain’t exactly clear.” But it’s becoming clearer and clearer.
I appreciate your understanding. Its good to see some people still understand social graces. I'm going to have to disagree. I don't think that OWS will produce offspring. Not enough Americans support this movement.
Then maybe I was mistaken about your sincerity and desire to learn because OWS has growing supporters all over the WORLD, many very well respected supporters. I don't really need numbers to know that's pretty significant. And I don't really judge by self-serving and short-sighted media BS which is how many Americans unfortunately form their opinions.
re "has no purpose and will never change anything" - not if it insists on having no rights to set demands. or to allow themselves to demand demands: http://occupywallst.org/forum/demands-demands/
If it were true that "not enough Americans support this movement", then I would reply, "not yet".
It already has...
http://www.the-99-declaration.org/ Check it out.
If you want to know why everything is failing I suggest you look in a mirror. I take full responsibility for everything that is going on this world. Every single action I take affects this world. If you are content with people dying in the streets continue you on. In a capitalist society the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Why do you think we do not abandon oil machinery and create self sustaining machinery? it would be efficient and no money would be made. I agree that every single person on this planet should work hard. However, it should be in in helping every one on this planet. The reason I say that is because we only have one planet. 70 percent of things done on this planet are not necessary and waste humans for what they are capable of. All for what? to play xbox? to go to bars and get drunk? I believe people do these things because they are not given the opportunity to do great things. I believe everyone wants to do there part and be recognized but they cant. So they do what everyone else is doing and do it well. We have the power to become a great civilization. We have the power to live in harmony and make this life free and beautiful. We have the power to explore planets, to do research on anything that fascinates us, to cure cancer even. We have the power to live greater then anyone has ever lived on this planet. We just have to make the choice. Please do not take the actions of few and chastise this entire movement. Some of us want great things and others probably do know what they want.
But we know it when we read it!!! Keep typing :)
You are being serious right? I am sorry for the uncertainty... I just have a hard time detecting tones through words.
Yes :)
have you read buckminster fuller's book from 1969 - "spaceship earth" - he is saying very much what you are saying - really good book! i disagree with the notion of hard work - we need more leisure time and social time etc and also about personal responsibility to some extent - i need a car to get to work etc - the system we live in controls much of what we do - having said that i am mostly with you here!
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin." another great Reagan quote.
What are you saying?
OWS is not a movement against capitalism. It is a movement for economic fairness.
Greece, France and Spain have capitalist economies.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sp.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gr.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fr.html
Get your facts straight before you post.
While I appreciate the your sentiment beautiful, capitalism ultimately is not a just and righteous position for this land. Capitalism requires land and this land rightfully must be given back and restored on behalf of justice and the Native Americans.
Save capitalism for Europe where they have thousand year old cities.
Our capitalist economy, as it is right now, is not working. It needs changes, for sure. I don't know about restoring native lands. I could see restoring the lands of the national parks, but other than that, it's not very realistic. This is like saying the descendants of slaves are owed remuneration with interest. True, in theory, but, not practical.
You may be right, but someone must be held to account for the broken spirit.
I agree with you. That's why we are here talking about all of this.
To whom are you planning to give the USA back to? Their all dead. The Indians also took the land from other tribes,will they not have to then give that land to the tribes they took it from?
Are you planning on giving reparations all the way back to the Neanderthal man?
Is there any end to this lunacy?
They are a mix of Capitalism/Socialism get your facts right before you post. They have a lot of Socialist polices that they could not pay for and bankrupted the country.
No. It is more complicated than that. Read shadz66's post about Greece here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/children-dumped-in-streets-by-greek-parents-who-ca/
However, not one of those countries has been ALLOWED to go bankrupt.
In fact, in Italy AND Greece democratically elected leaders were thrown out by and for bankers. The leader of Italy is now a banker and the leader of Greece is now a banker.
That's corporate democracy for ya!
George Carlin said "Hitler lost World War II, but fascism won".
What we have now in America is a type of fascism, a stealth fascism, where the corporations and the government are indistinguishable in their collusion.
I seem to recall a great many Americans died fighting Fascism as well.
I'm sorry you're so misguided and don't understand the nature of the movement. Martin Luther King was the leader of the Civil Rights movement, and they assassinated him. They also killed JFK and RFK. You really might want to look into that.
So without one person as a leader, there's nobody to assassinate. Except the MILLIONS of us that are sick of being screwed by the Gangster Class that rules this country.
Why aren't you against crime? The people running Wall Street are criminals. Why do you think they should get away with it?
who is "they"?
Every thing they did was within the legal limits. You can say what they did was unethical but it was very legal. The people on Wall Street are some of the most intelligent people we have in this country. they went into finance because that's were the money is. It makes perfect sense If I was in the same place I would most likely do the same thing, use my abilities to benefit me.
When the law is manipulated to reward a select few, it is no longer a viable institution.
And just because there are no prosecutions does not mean that no laws were broken. All it means is that the people in power are the ones responsible for the crimes.
You need to point out exactly what laws they broke and when, where, and how they broke them. Otherwise your claims have no bases.
@America921....Read the FBI report on the mortgage fraud, the Congressional inquiry of the causes of the financial collapse of 2007-2008.
I think you prefer to remain willfully ignorant, not to know that many people on wall street/Big Banks committed crimes.
The FBI has handed down numerous indictments for mortgage fraud and is investigate many more.
This information is a few key strokes on Google to find yet you don't know. I find this to be sorry state of affairs for you to have an uniformed opinion.
In almost the same breath, two assertions are made:
Both of these statements can't be true. Financial crimes are really hard to prove and complicated for juries. I think that if there are crimes that have been committed that can be proven, the prosecutions will happen.
@RoughKarma...I don't know how you can say no one is doing anything, a felony indictment with more to come is something.
Did you look at the reports I suggested?
That was my point. I think I tagged the wrong post. Sorry for the confusion. This was supposed to be a reply to Nordic, I think. That last bit about "getting away with it."
Well I'm sorry I don't have the time to read all this info. I have been studying military strategy recently.
@America921..If your not interested in the facts why did you offer an erogenous opinion.
We have the best government money can buy. We also have the best legal system money can buy. Under this system there the rule of law has been usurped.
This may be construed two ways: either everything legalized by a corrupt system is indeed legal, or, the operation of such a corrupt system - and by extension every action the corrupt system takes - is illegal.
I understand all of that. I know where you are coming from, but in order to support your accusation you must have specific details lest it has no footing. This is how you must debate, this is how you must prove your point. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I cannot just take your word on it.
No, it wasn't. Just because somebody gets away with something doesn't mean what they did was legal. What they did even has a name, it's called FRAUD and CONSPIRACY.
Do you have proof?
Yeah, the internal emails from Moody's are proof. Look it up. This thing was bigger than Enron by several powers of 10. Pure fraud.
They're not intelligent, they hire others for that.
Most are lazy and pretty stupid.
Actually, they have more money than brains, and suffer from pleonexia.
If they are so stupid how did they as OWS claims " Fool everyone in this country and steal their money"?
I've known for decades.
You must be pretty new to all this.
Or just numb.
If you knew this why didn't you try to stop it? To have this knowledge and not try to prevent this seems selfish.
People have been poisoned by (R)epelican propaganda for those years, and more.
Most of those either became glassy eyed at the suggestion, or they started spewing that same twisted propaganda.
Sometimes both.
I could only shrug and move away.
A few actually listened, and came to understand., often bringing more information to the table.
It's a learning process.
Upon studious observation, I've so come to thoroughly distrust (R)epelicans, I rail against their malfeasance every chance I get.
They have lost their sense of decency.
They have lost their sense of Country.
They claim to be small government, even while expanding it.
They claim to be anti-tax, while raising your taxes.
They claim to be saving the economy, while they crash it into a wall.
Liars!
Now they want to blame the innocent folks that got squished in the ongoing crash, for getting squished!
That's just nuts
This movement has already changed something, and it is something BIG.
It has changed the dialogue in this country, what people talk about around the kitchen table. It has re-cast the problems in this country from the disingenuous "deficit" to the central ones of income inequity and political and economic corruption.
That, all by itself, is huge.
Whatever the solutions to those two central issues will be is anybody's guess at this point. But people are finally talking about them, and that alone brings pressure to bear. There is no downside to that. And it is a tremendous accomplishment given how young a movement this is.
One footnote: France, Greece and Spain are not in trouble because of "socialism". It is a right wing meme and nothing else. Germany is, for example, not in trouble,(nor are Sweden, Denmark, or Finland) and its social programs are as robust, if not more so, than France's or Spain's. Greece is a matter unto itself, and so-called "socialism" is the least of the problems contributing to its mess. The USA is in deep trouble, too, and we are not socialist by any stretch of the imagination. Indeed, it was our financial crisis that contributed in large part to Europe's. (And France is in trouble primarily because its banks hold so much Greek debt, not because its government provides health care, etc, to its citizens. It is a problem of banking, not socialism.)
I agree with your thoughts on a leader, although I hope that this movement isn't without a purpose. What a leader or leadership group could provide for a movement like this is invaluable: things like organization and a clear set of goals. The media and people in general can ignore a movement like OWS because they don't understand it - because every person within this movement has their own list of things they want that do not always match. I spent weeks watching videos and studying the site in hopes of understanding the goal of this movement, without learning much at all. It would be easier to succeed at something by presenting a clear, precise list of the top 5 things OWS wants to happen and how to do this. Instead, it seems that what happens is a vague occupation of everything where nobody knows exactly what OWS wants except "fix the country". It would be much harder to ignore OWS if they were clear and organized, which is what leadership would be for.
The only action which will have a lasting effect on changing the course of this country is a coordinated mass movement of tax resistance (Not paying federal income taxes.). Like Secretary of State Haig said during the protests against the Vietnam War; "Let them march all they want, so long as they pay their taxes." Without taxes the war machine can not operate. Without taxes, government breaks down and with it the economy and Wall Street.
You neocon communists can keep your revolutions to yourselves
http://occupywallst.org/forum/faux-news-are-commies-down-to-their-pink-underwear/
The only result from a tax revolt would be to bring america to it's knees
The GOP has already tried to break america TWICE in the past year
They FAILED, and now their doom and gloom shills are making videos, false reports and FALSE PROPHESIES ( ie pat robertson's latest ravings)
These have failed as well, so now the tea party is openly advocating bringing america to it's knees
No wonder you turds are hated by the public, your ratings are approching that of congress( a GOP congress I might add)
Why don't you jerkwads get it?
You hate america we get it, so don't be mad when the feelings mutual, and try to break america in anger
Just leave, and form that god damn utopia you've been talking about ever since St. ayn rand?
we promise, we won't miss you
There are two forms of capitalism, one which works for the interests of the 99%, called worker's or industrial capitalism, and one which works against the interests of the 99% called finance capitalism.
Finance capitalism seeks to profit the 1% by dismantling and selling off the assets of industrial capitalism and by reducing the status of workers as close as possible to slavery. Examples of this would be the removal of American industry to China, as well as slavery in the United States. Adam Smith would be the main historical proponent of finance capitalism.
Industrial capitalism seeks to generate increasing profits by paying workers well so that they can educate themselves, develop new products and more efficient production processes bringing the cost of production down. It's main proponent was Alexander Hamilton.
Finance capitalism is also called imperialism, or these days, neo-imperialism. It is what we Americans fought against in the revolutionary war and what the north fought against in the the civil war.
Industrial capitalism is also called the American School, the National System, or simply, the American way. Whether most of it's proponents know it or not, I believe that the purpose of OWS is to fight for the return of the American way, or workers capitalism, not for the elimination of capitalism.
Interesting thing that is happening now. A lot of companies that make luxury items such a drum sets and other things that you want well made items, are bringing production back to America. They found that the stuff from china was not good and not saving them so much money. So they are heading back to America. China has it's place, they make cheap stuff like socks and plastic toys for cheap. But stuff you want well built is being made in America. Which is good. We want to be known for well made things. My drum set was made in America and it is the best sounding set I have ever played on.
Good point, but the manufactured items we really need now are the next generations in transportation and energy, to take us to the next level economically. Stuff like magnetic levitation trains, like the one in Shanghai, as well as new systems that would solve the problems of nuclear energy.
Video about OWS movement !!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Xy_jN9tFg
Cointellpro has spoken.
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America921, thank you for posting your opinion on here. I think it's great that there is dissent and I admire your effort to figure out this movement. I hope, though, that you can show the same appreciation in your response to my comment, and not reply based solely on opinion (of course opinions are fine when they are based on evidence). In this interview - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se-Nq_rBQHk - Professor Noam Chomsky at MIT responds to your exact question - is there a purpose or is there not? I could lay out these points myself to you, but I think he did it most articulately.
Thank you for your social graces. I'm a full time student so I don't have a lot of free time on my hands, but when I get around to it will will be more than happy to discuss this with you.
Socialism is not Communism
...and Capitalism has failed in Greece, France, and Spain.
Socialism has failed in Greece. France, and Spain because no one was willing to pay for it.
Greece needs to nationalize its Banks kick international bankers out - leave the Euro and create a new currency even if its only recognized in Greece!
I was thinking the same thing when I looked at our Presidential candidates, as long as our leaders come from a pool of the elites, or a pool of lifelong government workers, we will never really get someone who represents we the people. Why can't we have one of us up there representing us? Why is it so impossible, is it becuase only a rich man can pay for him to become famous so that the masses could recognize and vote for him?
Dear User America921... u said that "Don't write me off as some Troll or a lassy for the 1% you claim to fight. It's beneath you and childish. I have a right to voice my opinion and anyone who says otherwise is a poor excuse for a human being"
Yeah man, everybody can have an opinion, and u should try to make sense why so many millions around the world are having the same opinion and inspite of being criticised by infact ignorant people like you who dont understand the core deep rules that glorify socialism, capitalism and economics, there has still been a world wide growth rate of 400000% in the last year 2011 regarding the tens of millions of supporters who have occupied different territories worldwide and u say, by your very own limited knowledge opinion that those millions who also believe to voice their opinion (like you... see Quote, unquote, what u said at the end) and sufferrings backed by poor government decisions and maintaining the status quo , u dare to say that "Anyone who says otherwise is a poor excuse for a human being"... well first i felt deeply offended but then i quickly realized how common it is to come across such hypocritical people like you who like to voice their opinions and belittle human beings when infact u are the one whoz trying to make the opposite feel bad for voicing their genuine honest problems which are similar felt and faced by millions worldwide... u say they all are a poor excuse for a human being??? lol.. really??? now try and manipulate that, Mr. Writer... U gotta be saying things that make sense, not such clumsy metaphorical or feel bad statements... get over it, people like you, your time is up!!! :D
You misunderstand me. I was saying that anyone who tries to tell me to shut up or whatever is a poor excuse for a human being. Never did I intend for that to be directed at OWS. For that I send my apologies. I believe they have a right to voice their opinions. Don't say that I don't know what the world is like. I am a avid reader, I read the Economist, The Tribune, Popular Mechanics. I know a lot about the world. I realize that it is a cruel place out there, and that we as Americans are very fortunate that we don't have to worry about civil war, Famine, disease. My time is not over in fact I'm still very young soon I will be part of the workforce. I will shape this country's future whether you like it or not.
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Hi... This is Kaizad and I am from india... I am in full support of all the "Occupy" movement, not only in america but world wide... I have an interesting observation to share with ya all... If u really want to see a change in the society of structural classism, ya all really need to even take out some time and follow "The Venus Project".... a Sustainable world for future where poverty, misery, war, politics, money and cruelty will be a distant memory and our kids will laugh at us as how primitive and immature we all were at the time... This is by far the only optimal, logical and humane way to live to life advocated by Jacques Fresco... Please visit http://www.thevenusproject.com/. Once the movement is respected in the first world country like yours and changes start coming in, people like me living in third world countries will then finally get a chance...
You need to ask yourself why the American markets are having trouble because of Europe. I don't really know the answer because our banks are allowed to keep so many secrets. I'd bet it's because our banks have a bunch of trades like the one that killed MF Global. IMO OWS is not a movement against capitalism but maybe dreaming of a return to the capitalism we had before the neocons and neoliberal economists took over and decided to try to run our economy on flawed financial products instead of the great products America used to make. One thing I've noticed since OWS started up is the willingness of some folks within the financial industry to start telling the truth about the serious flaws in our banking system, there a new tell all book by insiders on the book shelves every few weeks so it's not just a bunch of kids protesting it's people in the business as well. There's many good books out these days that can explain to you what went wrong and why we shouldn't call what happened to our banks some accident of capitalism. I'm all for capitalism we should be fighting to get it back.
ok. A regulated capitalism. Where banks can't be too big too fail. Where mortgages can't be sold and bet on in the stock market. Where corporations can't run the political system and get away with crimes and not be prosecuted.
OWS is not a socialist movement (or at least not socialist in the way you seem to be implying).
Well, let's hope your wrong about that. :/
If you define socialism as centralized/command control over the economy (or anything else for that matter), then OWS is definitely not socialist. This may be the Robert Owen definition of socialism, but it is the common perception among Americans, and typically, it is the brand of socialism its critics are referring to.
Agreed, but if we let the common perceptions of Americans continue as they are, there will never be any change.
Recall, that Socialism is ONLY discussed NOW because of the Republican fear/smear. No Lib has won the hearts of teen heart throbs on X-fukrs.
Leaving the definition of Socialism to ANYONE other than OWS would be as absurd as getting the news from FOX.
Thoughts? :) Peace
B. Dolan - "FILM THE POLICE" ft. Toki Wright, Jasiri X, Buddy Peace, Sage Francis
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AGREED!
And crony capitalism is failing in this country
This movement is a JOKE. Look at the people protesting on the street. Nobodys looking for handouts. Look at the people on this forum. Keyboard warriors looking for handouts. Look what this movement has accomplished. Nothing. Nor will it accomplish anything.
This is not a movement but a dieing fad
Newsflash: You may be special to your mommy, just because you were born, but the rest of us aren't impressed.
The world doesn't owe you a living, a promotion, or any special consideration at all. The people who tell you otherwise are doing it because they think you're stupid, easy to manipulate, and they want to use you for their own purposes. Stop complaining that the people who are paying your share, their share, and a dozen other people's share aren't doing enough while you hang out in Zuccotti Park and eat donated food. There are few things worse than arrogant beggars. So, get off your lazy butt, stop looking for hand-outs, take baths, apply for jobs on Wall Street instead of protesting it, and start contributing to society instead of leeching off of it. The problem with society isn't the people working hard & paying taxes. It's the non-contributors with a sense of entitlement who think they should be able to make a good living off the sweat of someone else's brow. Your envy, your endless excuses, and your embrace of victimhood are sickening and unmanly and immature. Grow up.
Your reply is unfair, but I think you already know that. Like America921, I came here to find out about the movement and I don't think that this is all about handouts. I think it is a struggle to allow each person to live with dignity. There are a lot of people who get spit on in our society. The people at the top do it because they think themselves superior. The people in the middle do it because they are afraid to not, that it will be them next if they don't. I have worked for the last 40 years. I have never taken a dime in assistance from anyone. Now I am unemployed because I am too old to work in what was a young man's game. I am on unemployment not because I want to be, but because it is necessary right now, and the shame I feel from that is sometimes unbearable. I worked hard and paid taxes, but it wasn't enough in the end. My retirement fund was obliterated in the stock market. I am being cast aside like trash. Maybe I should have had a different career path. Maybe I should have stayed in school. I am qualified to do other things but I can't get a chance to prove it. But I have worked hard and faithfully for a long time. I am only asking that my faithfulness be reciprocated. If this is to be my fate, what can I do but accept it? I thought I had some good years left in me. I wish someone else thought so, too.
God Bless you ...all the best....I try to think of these words from Thoreau, when I am discouraged.... "However mean your life is, meet it and live it; do not shun it and call it hard names. It is not so bad as you are. It looks poorest when you are richest. The fault-finder will find faults even in paradise. Love your life, poor as it is. You may perhaps have some pleasant, thrilling, glorious hours, even in a poorhouse. The setting sun is reflected from the windows of the almshouse as brightly as from the rich man's abode; the snow melts before its door as early in the spring. I do not see but a quiet mind may live as contentedly there, and have as cheering thoughts, as in a palace.
Just feeling sorry for myself last night. I am in better spirits most of the time. That post just kind of made me mad. Thank you for your concern. That was a great quote.
I love Thoreau ,.....he was one bad ass dude. I am struggling myself...Have a good day.. It is snowing a bunch here in NY. You can make it...Don't think otherwise.
I'm not an OWS protester. I know I'm not entitled to anything, except my basic rights. I agree with what your saying just not directed at me.
I know...I'm directing my reply to the lazy, entitlement mentality of these creepy OWS types. God Bless..Have a good night.
They know that. They just come here to rant. Have you noticed no meida is reporting on any OWS activities ? that because they are not doing anything but ranting in here. Keeps them off the streets were they might hurt themselves
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“Suppose our failures occur, not in spite of what we are doing, but precisely because of it. Right, left, moderate. christian, non believer, capitalist, socialist, anarchist syndicalist or what and whom ever“....
The world can no longer be left to mere diplomats, politicians, and business leaders. Most "not all" have done the best they could, no doubt. But this is an age for spiritual heroes- a time for men and women to be heroic in their faith and in spiritual character and power. The greatest danger to the world and the Christian church today is that of pitching its message too low.”
“The greatest issue facing the world today, with all its heartbreaking needs, is whether those who, by profession or culture, are identified as ‘Christians’ will become disciples – students, apprentices, practitioners – of Jesus Christ, steadily learning from him how to live the life of the Kingdom of the Heavens into every corner of human existence.”
“The test of character posed by the gentleness of God's approach to us is especially dangerous for those formed by the ideas that dominate our modern world. We live in a culture that has, for centuries now, cultivated the idea that the skeptical person is always smarter than one who believes. You can be almost as stupid as a cabbage, as long as you doubt. The fashion of the age has identified mental sharpness with a pose, not with genuine intellectual method and character. Only a very hardy individualist or social rebel -- or one desperate for another life -- therefore stands any chance of discovering the substantiality of the spiritual life today. Today it is the skeptics who are the social conformists, though because of powerful intellectual propaganda they continue to enjoy thinking of themselves as wildly individualistic and unbearably bright.”
Stay clear of absolute statements ... Majority have miserable lives??? Have you done a survey to back up this statement? If you did you did not include me and I have a very blessed life! Sure Capitalism will fail sooner or later because of its greed and materialism ... it's karma!
"A vote for Romney, is a vote for karma!" lol :) Cheers.
"A vote for Romney is a vote for corporations".
When I mention OWS to people, very few know what I am talking about. Yes, most have heard of it. The ones who do know about it think it is a bunch of dope smoking losers trying to conjure up there grandparents hippy days in some sort of nostalgic transference, or cry babies who want an education, bought on 4 or 5 years of borrowed cash, somehow paid for by their neighbors. Getting big money out of politics is probably a good thing. Most true believers hanging around on this site rarely talk about it though.
You can't write two sentences without contradicting yourself. That's why you do not have student loans and can not comprehend your surroundings.
You probably voted for the genius Harry Reid too. My student loans were paid off 35 years ago little boy. James the dipshit believes student debt = smart. You must be a real winner.
Only a delusional fool would vote for that corrupt hypocrite. I voted Angle (R/Tea) and I'm a Socialist. Just not a hypocritical one, if I can help it.
You ARE so RIGHT! Now go away and don't come back!
You are a poor excuse for an American and a human being.
Hahahaha, if you only KNEW!
New what?
Know, I ment knew!
Actually I was in a rush. What do you mean by, "If you only KNEW!"? I changed it.
But now it's not funny :(
Fair enough. Its back now. what should America921 new?;)
No, no don't, this thread lost all meaning a while back :) lol Peace.
The movement isn't about working for their earnings, its about those who did work and make money being forced to GIVE money to those who have less. Its the same thing Obama has been saying almost constantly the past couple of years. I feel sorry for the lemmings. God Bless the USA...Pick your self up...Stop expecting others to pay your way...There are opportunities for those with ambition...who seek.
you have good points on the movement--goto the 99% declaration if you actually want to change something... as for your socialism/capitalism issue: the US is just as broke as EU countries, and overspending/undertaxing is what caused it, not the form if economic system. remember, the US credit was downgraded before spain, france or italy. it seems you do not understand what socialism or capitalism are--US has always been a blend of socialism and capitalism, and so too are EU countries (medicare, SS, unemployment, funding the arts, roads, public works, etc...) the government is about 40% of all spending in the US.
France, Greece and Spain are not in trouble because of "socialism". It is a right wing meme and nothing else. Germany is, for example, not in trouble,(nor are Sweden, Denmark, or Finland) and its social programs are as robust, if not more so, than France's or Spain's. Greece is a matter unto itself, and so-called "socialism" is the least of the problems contributing to its mess. The USA is in deep trouble, too, and we are not socialist by any stretch of the imagination. Indeed, it was our financial crisis that contributed in large part to Europe's. (And France is in trouble primarily because its banks hold so much Greek debt, not because its government provides health care, etc, to its citizens. It is a problem of banking, not socialism.)
The "99% Declaration" is NOT affiliated with OWS. It is a poorly thought out libertarian manifesto trying to cash in on the popular anger of OWS. It is essentially dishonest in the way it portrays itself.
you are spot on. the germans and nordic countries have exhibited more disciplined spending--they understand that "deficits do matter" and that expanding credit needs to be met by expanded taxation--a concept that completely eludes washington. thusly, they are more cautious in their promises to provide/spend on programs, they haven't engaged in extremely costly wars lately. the US is in worse shape than greece and the other PIIGS nations, but we can, and will, depreciate our currency (i.e., inflation). we are the antithesis of the germans and nords in these respects.
as for the declaration i think it's right on... it was conceived on this forum and comments were requested. i think it's well thought out. then OWS basically rejected it. thus rendering OWS nearly pointless. however, i do very much appreciate the end of political apathy, which has been the mantra of US citizens for as long as i've been alive. activism is good.
Two quibbles, one small and one large:
Deficits don't matter too much, depending. If one has a mortgage or car, for example, one is in debt. But that's OK as long as the debt is sustainable by making timely payments. Long term debt that is unsustainable except by incurring even more debt is problematic. And your solution - raising revenue - is absolutely the appropriate solution. In order to raise that revenue in a time of economic crisis, more short term debt must be taken in order to invest in creating jobs, thereby broadening the tax base. Also, a genuinely progressive tax structure to limit income disparity must be enacted to ensure the flow of capital throughout the entire economy and not hoarded by a few at the top.
I actually think we see pretty much eye to eye on this, but I have a problem with using "deficits do matter" language. It is language invented by the 1% as a way of protecting their assets.
Now for the big objection: I think the "99% Declaration" is dishonest in the way it represents itself. Its very title implies that it is part of OWS. As you yourself have just written, OWS rejected it. It is therefore NOT affiliated with OWS, yet still presents itself, via its title alone (a meme lifted straight from OWS) as this movement.
That is dishonest. And if it is dishonest in such a fundamental way, it does not inspire confidence that it will be honest in any other way moving forward.
I also don't agree that it is in many ways a well thought out document. There are several demands in it that come straight out of right wing and libertarian propaganda machines (some virtually quote the CATO Institute) that have successfully filtered out to the general public. These propaganda points are based entirely on distortions and lies and represent the agenda of the 1%. It is a measure of how successful the Big Lie strategy has been, infiltrating and influencing even a movement that is dedicated to eliminating the power of that 1%. But, regardless of what one thinks of the document, it nevertheless presents itself as something it is not. It is NOT a statement by OWS.
it was gw bush, i think, or someone from his admin. who said "deficits don't matter", but i am saying they do matter. we're digging the hole deeper for sure but i don't see jobs being created as a result of the deeper hole--please let me know if you know of examples. our debt is 110-115% of GDP (soon to be 120), a commonly used measure (greece at 120%), however, GDP is not taxed, so it's yet another misleading stat. income (from whatever source derived) is taxed; and income has been falling in this great depression.
i'll grant you that the tax code is horrible, full of so much lobbied bullshit, it needs a 1986-style overhaul, except a fair one. 1986 was when all those "carried interest" provisions for hedge funds and partnerships was developed, and the top tax rate on personal income was lowered from 50% to 35%--it really did those people in the top 5% a huge favor at the expense of the country's finances. i don't think, however, that any tax provision or law can alter the economic truism that money, well utilized, begets more money--it accumulates naturally through good investment. i don't begrudge those with tons of $, but i do want them to be taxed a whole lot more, and to lose bullshit advantages that starve the coffers, like carried interest.
I forgot about the Bush quote. Thanks for reminding me.
Many of the countries in Scandinavia and Europe that are in good shape have a higher debt that we do. The % of GDP is not the issue. The sustainability of that debt is. Greece's woes, for example, are only partly about its overall debt. There are real political and social issues at play there that led to its collapse. Those problems made their debt unsustainable, because under their current conditions, they can't generate more revenue.
I'm not sure, but we may be talking past each other (at least I hope so). Increases in short-term deficit spending is necessary in time of economic crisis, such as this one. It is what got the country out of the Great depression in the '30s. By investing in jobs, one expands the tax base. By expanding the tax base, more revenue is generated. If, instead, austerity measures gain traction (as they did in 1937-38) the economy contracts again. Keyensian economics works.
I also don't begrudge those with lots of money, but great income disparity bring with it other consequences. It opens the door to either plutocracy or corporate oligarchy; it undermines democracy. It creates more infant mortality (yes, there are studies that show this definitively) tot eh extent that certain neighborhoods, like East harlem (as one example) actually experiences higher infant mortality than the slums of Calcutta. It creates an un-level playing field, not just in terms of outcomes, but in terms of general opportunity. It depresses intergenerational social/economic mobility. And high income distribution correlates to economic crashes as well.
we are in agreement. and especially on the GDP/debt ratio being an illusory measure. i don't think the debt, however, at these levels is sustainable. china stopped buying our debt, and i think that speaks volumes. it also preceded QE1 and QE2-- my connection of the dots, is that large SWFs and institutions are backing away from large scale purchases of US debt because they're worried about its' sustainability. hence the necessity of QE. we're borrowing to service the debt, and that's tantamount to taking an equity line of credit to pay your mortgage--at some point it breaks.
I don't think the Chinese have stopped buying T-bills because of the sustainability of the debt, at not not all by itself. Aside form having their own reasons (they have threatened to stop supporting T-bills in the past as part of a tactic to get around criticism or action against their currency manipulation or other unfair trade practices) they, like much of the international community, lost confidence in the government's willingness to act responsibly during the wholly manufactured debt ceiling fiasco. It was the Republitards who engineered that debacle. When one party can effectively paralyze the entire government, it sends a message that it will not solve its long term problems. It was this gridlock reprehensible political theatre, not the debt itself, that world markets reacted to.
Quantitative easing was a way of stimulating the economy because the republitards blocked all other measure to do so. It is far less effective than direct job creation or selling bonds. And when short term interest rates are near zero, the Fed can do nothing else. It is used as a way to lower the risk of deflation which would put the country back on the course of recession again.
I agree that the debt is likely unsustainable in the long term without action. But the action best suited for lowering it is job creation. That means more short term debt. Money makes money, and we must invest now in order to save the future.
I also agree that the tax code needs an overhaul. But I wouldn't use 1986 as the template, but 1936. We need a tax and spend structure akin to the New Deal.
yes there are several reasons they stopped buying our debt, including the notion too that he who writes the check has the power... it gives us political leverage in that sense. and this republican party as currently constituted is at the heart of many problems. QE was to stimulate in part as well, I agree. But I just don't see that the fed's actions can or will create jobs--only demand does that, and i observe that the depression has caused people to retrench in their spending habits, even the very rich people living around me--although many of them fear job loss and are maxed out on housing/cars/credit, so one missed paycheck is a huge problem. psychology plays a powerful force in generating demand. I also agree wholly that we need to invest now,,, cutting back government spending would be a real problem. But I fear that, as the economy improves in maybe (ahem) 10 years, it will not be done. 1986 code set in motion alot of bad things. I am not familiar with the 1936 code, but all I know is that we can do a whole lot better.
Looks like we agree on far more than we disagree.
I understand that we are a mix. I'm sorry if I did not make that clear enough.
no need to apologize, i just see a lot of trader boards that seem to think obama is a pure socialist, and it's idiotic. they're still allowed to privately own stock,,, and i am just surprised that the distinction and realities are over their heads...
I agree. OWS is doomed for failure. Unfortunately for the movement, the only thing they excels at is occupying; and even there they are losing ground as people become impatient with the destruction and disruptions the occupiers cause.
So, you will be leaving now?
No I'm not a coward like most of you. I will defend my position until no one comments anymore, then I will leave a victorious man.
Sure you are. See this? I went on this website about 3 months ago and have been visiting it frequently. I wanted to learn more about this movement. I soon began to realize that this movement has no purpose, has no goals, has no plan of attack.
So, you actually went to a meeting? Or you just decided that this website would suffice?
You can start with the above.
I went to Occupy Chicago and found the exact same thing.
Then if it is doomed to failure, then why are you here?
I am making a point.
You don't have a point, sweet pea.
Were you not taught how to deduce the main topic of an article? It's that this movement is a joke and will not succeed.
reheheally now? if this movement is a joke and will not succeed, why are you here defending your position against it? it would be yesterdays news, were it true no? there would be no reason for any of us to be here, yes? perhaps you are not so sure that it will fail eh? perhaps it scares the living shit out of you. that's just what I thought. You are like eh scared little kitty cat. meow.
I'm not afraid of you, I'm not afraid of anyone (except my father). I'm here to try to educate you guys on my point of view. We can all learn from each other. Shame you can't see that though.
And you are the VERY FIRST PERSON to ever post that.
Let me explain this to you as if this is your first time.
The issues are very real. You have two choices. You either figure out how to address them now while you can or you can deal with the ramifications. I loved the fact that the middle class woke up. The problem is that these issues have been ongoing for a lot longer AND even if OWS stopped tonight at 6PM forever, it doesn't end.
Choose your path.
There is nothing in the world that is stopping YOU from making an effort to address these issues except for yourself. So, when you get off your fat ass and get in the game then your words will be taken a little more serious.
I change my world by looking out for my family. I work hard ever day at college so I can get a good degree to support my family. I have a little brother that looks up to me. I have to set a good example for him and teach him right from wrong. I watch out for my little sister who is in high school because I know what guys are capable of and my sister is a little oblivious. My actions are material. Not dumb ideas floating around in a drum circle with a bunch high hippies.
So I don't sit on my ass all day. I make the most of everyday. I work hard for my family, for my brothers and sisters. I don't sit and bitch about how my life sucks and I want the government to fix all my mistakes.
So, you still live at home?
No I am a college now. Freshman.
get out fast! do NOT take out any loans.
Son's and daughter's of America, this much I know: the history of these days will be written in blood, by taking the weapons they sought to use against us we were fighting for our very survival, But if there are those who would deny us peace and our rightful place in this world. We will unleash such horrible vengeance that generations unborn will cry out in anguish.
I'm sorry I have been waiting to use that line for a very long time.
So by me not going to college, Not getting a good job, working for a corporation I will not be supporting the 1% you guys claim to fight?
I would shut down Social Security. Give all the money people have put into it and let them invest their money how they see fit. It would increase the deficit by a lot but we would no longer have to pay for the agency.
No I'm going to get a degree in Engineering. I have read the fine print of my contract I understand it. I know what I am getting myself into.
You know very little and believe too much. You place faith in faith instead of understanding. You have not learned a single thing here, right? If you can not learn from nice people trying to help, you will never learn anything at a university and will be a good brain-dead slave for the one percent.
I will give you one last opportunity to expand your intellect; what federal government agency would you shut?
That's perfect. Hopefully, you can read and learn on this site. Many simply can't connect what happens in their lives to the choices they've made. It's always someone else's fault, someone stopped them from accomplishing this, made them sign that, didn't tell them this, told them that.
You'll find that that mindset leads to a crummy life. These are the same people that turn 50 and still can't figure out why their lives suck and they're poor, other than it being someone else's doing.
Let's see if you're smarter than a typical OWSer.
Do you have student loans? Do you know that it's your name on the bottom of the loan agreement? Do you know that the lender will actually want you to pay them back? Do you know that because using bankruptcy as a scam to steal from student loan lenders was pulled by a previous generation, that bankruptcy no longer works? Do you know that the more money you borrow, the harder it is to pay back? Do you know that engineering pays better than hispanic studies?
If you consistently answered "yes", you're already way ahead of the typical OWSer. Congratulations.
Just so we are clear, you have never in your life had to negotiate for better pay, working conditions or benefits with an employer. You have never had your job outsourced. You have never attempted to buy a house or had it illegally foreclosed on. You have never been denied medical treatment nor had to pay full price for it out of your own pocket.
Hahaha your so easily angered. Might want to control that temper of yours, and yes I do help support my family seeing as my Father died 10 years ago. Yes it hurt like a bitch when life smacked me in the ass, but I'm a stronger person for it.
I'm not angry, Sugarpop. That is where you are wrong. :D
Parents die that is what they do. It happens to everyone. That isn't what I was thinking of. Just remember, I'll be laughing at you.............kind of like how I am laughing at you now.
Someone is a little defensive when it comes to being on Welfare. Almost makes me think you are......
Someone is trying to claim responsibilities that don't belong to them because he knows that he is still a child. You don't take care of your family. Your parents do. Having a job for small period of time and then leaving it (because you can) is a lot different than having to work. I love kids.
I cannot wait until life kicks your ass so hard you can't see straight. When that happens, I want you to remember one thing.
I'll be laughing at you. :D
But, no, I'm not on welfare douchebag.
I had a job before attending college. I was paid very fairly for the amount of work I did. I'm going to be an engineer I wont have my Job outsourced because I'm going to make myself indispensible. There is no such thing as illegal foreclose ers. Unlike you I'm determined to make it in this world. I will make it in this world. I'm an American, when someone tells me I cannot do something I do it better than anyone else has before. I'm sorry if you are afraid of work and don't realize that life is hard but I clearly cannot help and I'm definitely not paying for you Welfare.
You will. Too bad you can not learn.
I'm not on welfare you punk ass little bitch. :D
There are illegal foreclosures. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/11/30/banks-targeting-military-families-for-illegal-foreclosures/
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/State-accuses-Bank-of-America-unit-of-thousands-1743800.php
http://occupywallst.org/forum/is-ows-a-cult-or-anti-capitalist/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_-MtDHpxzI&feature=endscreen&NR=1
the "middle class" woke up in 2009 and formed the Taxed Enough Already party
That was the saddest group of sun-burnt diabetics even seen.
i know harry stole the election,...........union fraud voters.
Tea Party People worked ( volunteered) to give the republicans a majority in congress. They will be do the same in the 2012 senatorial and presidential elections
You must be truly insane.
you didn't vote for reid, but still he's one of your senators. isn't interesting that in 2010 when his son ran for governor he lost but father reid won the senate seat.
i didn't vote for my senators either. they're known as "useless" and "worthless".
Hahaha that's great! lol Sr had to steal the election out here. It's all Diebold.
harry reid is yours,.............lol , my sympathy.
Like hell he is! I've never voted for that corrupt hypocrite! I voted Angle in '10.
when taxes are cut, people spend more money, treasury funds are enhanced. i don't know here you live , but here the water is clean. The majority of the people in the USA are conservative.
"i don't know here you live..." Really? Not a clue?
Why?
Some hold that doing one action repeatedly and expecting different results is insane.
For 30+ years now your small minds have cut taxes several times, started several wars and polluted this land from sea to trash filled sea.
Now, as the economy has collapsed your small mind calls for more tax cuts and more deregulation.
Your mind is so small it can not learn from your mistakes. So I and others treat you like the trolls you are. Trolls do not learn from mistakes; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Billy_Goats_Gruff
Until your brain has more plasticity, you are doomed to be an American Conservative. I'm sorry and hope you rot for all you've wrought.
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Teabaggers raised my taxes!!!!!
They lie, just like the rest of the (R)epelicans.
Specifically ,what taxes were raised? when were they raised?
My State taxes were raised to off set yet another corporate tax break!!!!!
Teabaggers are (R)epelicans, they don't have tools necessary to tell the truth.
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what state do you live in?
If you're a teabagger supporter, you should know by now.
The sad part is, I can't find a single teabagger, that does.
Wow, you are beautiful. Just kidding, you're a bruised anus.
you are evading the question. what state do you live in?
Why should I feed your teabagge(r)y?
You should know what teabagger(s) are really up to.
You apparently support them.
Teabagge(r)s all claim to know about every form of government chicanery.
Except when it's done by teabagge(r)s.
Sounds like they gave you a taste of your own medicine schmuck.
I NEVER raised any ones taxes.
I worked for a living.
Stop being such a schlemiel.
Cry us a river schmuck. You've never paid your fair shar e ever.
Derwood???
How long have you been paying taxes?
Get life. You need one.
You are so homely that having your face blown off would make you more cute.
The Tea Party is for little girls with imaginary friends.
Koch endorsed and funded.
sewer gurlie regurgitates,..........................again.
Capella, it's time for you to go log out and log back in as someone else now.
sewer gurlie ,the poster child for rotor rooter tries again. And fails.
I'm sorry child molester, I can't hear you over the sound of how scuzzy you are.
sewer gurlie has waxy build up. time to get your ears cleaned. probably the cleanest thing about her.
I'm sorry troll, I can't hear you over the sound of how dirty you are.
sewer gurlie steps up to the plate and stikes out.
Once upon a time there was a hyperactive ditch pig. Surprise, it was you.
another snappy comeback by sewer gurlie
You didn't come for discourse, you came for intercourse. I fuck back. You pathetic piece of shit.
You like to put out for libs. Soros is your type.
Roses are red, violets are blue, you're a hillbilly twat.
Lot's of fish in the barrel today! lol
Yep. Most of them are one person.
Oh frak! That's the best one yet!! lol!!
You must have majored in communications.
Wow, you are sexy. Just kidding, you're a dick cheese.
Sure thing slut lips. In regards to your smelly trailer, douche regularly.
By the time you hear how not to be a lipstick whore, it will be more or less a year too late.
This website plus hundreds of youtube videos (violence violence violence) brought on by this group has turned me away. Not to mention that this movement is for the soul purpose of creating a communism society
You weren't turned away, John-Dan. You came here because you are a douche-bag. The entire reason for your existence in any number of your IDs is because you are a dick.
You were a dick before and you are a dick now. Nothing has transpired between now and then to some how change any one of your personas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKvhxapM5zo&feature=fvsr
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yup, you can say whatever you want. you can think whatever you want. The sad fact is your world view does not encompass reality, but rather a small reflection of what you wish to see.
The Occupy Movement is getting mentioned on Prime Time television shows. That in a sense is an indication of the depth of reach into American culture we have achieved in only a few months.
The nation is rife with discontent.
Change is coming. You can't stop it. You may even benefit - unless you get in the way - then there is just no tellin'.
You didn't have anything to say about socialism or communism. To be honest he and I can say the same thing about your ideas. If the repelicans are as hard hearted, devious, and greedy as you claim they are then they will only come out of this stronger.
the repelican party is DONE
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Tell exactly how OWS is going to change anything? Any protest gets on Prime Time television. That's not that hard. You are rife with discontent, not the Nation. I can stop change and if I see this nation going towards Socialism or worse Communism I will fight it.
You seem to have no problem with fascism though.
Why is that?
You don't know what Fascism means. It means there is a dictator. Do you see a dictator. OWS uses Fascist way to liberally.
If that's what you're waiting for, you will be fascist before you know it.
No I do not want a dictator. Were did you get that idea from? I would die before I see this country become Fascist or Communist.
We are very much closer to the former, rather than the latter.
Take another look and you will find that it's true.
We are no where near a dictatorship.
It's not necessary.
All it takes is a further merging of corporation and state.
And with these bozos the trains still won't run on time.
Really? then what about your hero rupert murdock? and his FAUX folks that HATE freedom, but loves communism??
http://occupywallst.org/forum/faux-news-are-commies-down-to-their-pink-underwear/
Their own words, not mine
I look people in the eye, and take them at their word
And rupert likes communist china
And OWS is working FOR democracy
so becareful whom you serve, you just might be a servant of the enimies to freedom
Are you serious? Those you tube videos are your proof?
Lmao you tell him.
I wouldn't go that far but I would fight it. I would probably move to an ex-patriot community with my father if it was inevitable
Socialism, communism, we live in a society, in a community, the state I am from is a commonwealth, these are words you should learn the meaning of. OWS has already changed the way a lot of things are happening, Like educating the public on what is really going on in this country and world. Take your tme and check out some of the links.
Which commonwealth are you from? OWS will have no lasting impact. They cannot get organized and will not be able to influence policy.
Massachusetts, OWS will have impact, it has already made people aware, your here.
not in favor of progressive social policy, eh?
stay off the interstate then.
stop drinking clean water, stop breathing clean (relatively clean) air, stop using the military to seek safety from "terrorists", opt out of the Child Labor laws and get your kids working
Stay off the interstate?
yeahya - stay off the interstate. It's my interstate. Stay off it.
I don't have a problem if you don't like progressive social policy - but why should the weight of your lame ass wear out my infrastructure
It's not yours......
it's as much mine as it is yours, and you have made it clear you absolutely resent paying for its upkeep.
Americans have done amazing things working together. That includes pooling our funds to accomplish things as a nation no other nation in history has done.
piss off
I never said I don't want to pay for infrastructure. I want Police Schools and Infrastructure. Where did you get that.
fu! I hope you get arrested and end up black!
This is exactly what's wrong with America. People like you are rude and so close minded. Why would I get arrested? I'm a law biding citizen because its my duty to this country.
Part of the infrastructure includes the ability to investigate instances of fraud perpetrated by banking and investment institutions, and prosecutions thereof.
you posted:
The fact is capitalism is failing, and it is failing precisely because of the corruption between the public and private sector. The entire economic meltdown began with subprime loans and fraud perpetrated by lending institutions including Countrywide - documented by 60 Minutes and others, Robo Signing on Foreclosures and a host of other issues.
Conservatives set out decades ago to install conservative activist judges as high as the Supreme Court - and when that process began to bear fruit they began screaming about Liberal activist judges as a distraction.
Now we have Citizens United.
the Occupy Movement seeks to address these issues - you ignore them and claim the sum of this movement is communist.
Well, Mr. McCarthy, I'm here to tell ya I'm not a communist - but some in the movement are, and I commend them for having the courage to stand up in the face of blatant corruption.
And you can stay off my interstate.
So when ever the economy goes down we blame Capitalism?
Ignore ZenDog, he is the leading communist cocksucking troll of this movement. He will just use his brainwashed propaganda to counter any of your smart arguments.
a lack of regulation within the capitalist system would seem to be the culprit both now and back in the Great Depression.
Since deregulation seems to be a chief point of advocacy among capitalists I presume the blame here is completely appropriate.
Folks just checking in.
Get this.
On the PBS news hour tonight they had a couple of WallStreet experts on. One of the experts stated that the reason WallStreet was acting to curb bonuses this year is that they are likely to start laying off employees, SOON.
Nope not interested in the social pathetic communist regime
go occupy eternity you fuckwad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu45m3bIWQk&feature=related
Wait.....................you're not leaving? That wasn't a good-bye post?
Got that right and that is their main goal is to bring about socialism. F them
The OWS loons are just a socialist bunch of thugs that are trying, along with their commando Odumbo, to transform the US into a communist Nation
What does lead taste like?
Have anything in pineapple??