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Forum Post: This forum is pointless at this point...

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 30, 2011, 6:02 p.m. EST by nugrooven (8)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

There are clearly not enough people monitoring this forum, as it has become inundated with nazi propaganda, trolls, conspiracy theories, and what I imagine are online provocateurs... Too bad as this could be something special and is instead painful to even read.



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[-] 3 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

Have you read the 99% Declaration?


[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

I have. It looks as if it is assembling Delegates for an article 5 convention, but it does not say so and does not involve the states or their authority or any other authority.

"The PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES" has no authority other than the right to petition.

Article 5 has the full right to ratify amendments to the constitution. The PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES should be listing the deprivation of an article 5 convention as the prine grievance because at an article 5 convention the authority to address all of the other issues is guaranteed.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 12 years ago

I was looking at some of your links today so I'm getting a bit better sense of ART5. Thanks, i'm still learning.

"Constitutional Amendment" appears in the wording of items #1 and #2 in the List of Grievances. Given the info I shared with you previously regarding Michael Pollok and Lawrence Lessig appearing together on the same team, do you think they are referring to a constitutional amendment other than an ART5 convention? Is there some other amending process that they could be referring to?

Given the origins of the Declaration and the evolving nature of The List, we may very well end up with the prime grievance you desire. Have you contacted the working group with this?

I think the NGA could be the biggest positive political event of my generation. If I'm right, 100% of Americans would learn about the power of an Article V convention.

217 days, 216, 215...


[-] 1 points by ropeknot (359) 12 years ago

Me too Chris ! Thanks!

[-] 2 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

right, well, i asked Jart for sub forums and she promised them two months ago.... they never came... this is a predictable outcome from failing to listen to me. Its long past time to come to the wiki and get to work instead of wasting our time in mass chaos and disorganization here.



I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.

  1. Merely protesting in the streets will not bring change. In fact merely protesting in the streets is in fact a means to the end of avoiding the real work of a revolution, which consists of the evolutionary solutions, answers, problem solving process, and new political alignment we create.
  2. This forum is absolutely disorganized. It won't be read by most people and it won't and can't function as a core organizational system.
  3. Back at the very start of this, I petitioned the admin to add multiple sub forums and a wiki. Multiple sub forums were promised but have never arrived. I think that this tells us that the intention actually of this forum is message control and containment. The entire purpose really of this forum has always been to keep us spinning in disorganization. We are hanging out on a forum that expressly exists to actually keep us confused and disorganized.
  4. The real work of a revolution isn't going to happen on forums, it needs to happen in a much more organized fashion using collaborative software.
  5. The assorted other details about how to collaborate, how to work open source direct democracy, how to focus in on science instead of isms, how to become hyper rational about this, are details which are essential and crucial, without which we can predict the movement to fail.
  6. Technically speaking we are not 99 percent, we are one tenth of one percent attempting to represent the 99 percent. Our core mission must be to communicate to and with the 99 percent, and get them to join us. This forum will not accomplish that and neither will any of the other main websites.
  7. You can follow other people out to other wikis and other websites, where they will try to get you to get involved with what they want and their program, but frankly speaking, there is no other website and no other operation out there which understands the complexities involved with meaningful organization. In short, everyones being led to get involved here there and everywhere else, scattering the movement in directions which ultimately do not gain us critical mass, criticial momentum, or critical systemic lucidity.
  8. I have managed to get a wiki put up and have already put on that wiki evolutionary details which make it more organized than anything else. I can't do this alone. There are 10 or so wikis now out there, most of which were created in response to my pleas for a wiki, and several of which are in domains owned and operated by some corporation, (wikia, etc) And which we can thus assume will simply be closed, shut down, or deleted if they become useful to the movement.
  9. Probably at least half of the invites you have to go participate at some other site are people who are scamming everyone to waste time and energy, distort the movement, co opt it, and etc. When you walk off into a closet ask yourself how you know that the closet isn't created by some fed, or by some republican, or by some democrat, in order to sway things in their direction.
  10. The only meaningful strategic option we have for real change in this country is to create a new third party, and take every political office in this country.
  11. Once that is done, we can have an article 5 convention. If we have an article 5 convention before getting rid of the oligachs, that just opens the genie from the bottle for them to abuse that process with their corruption and evil.

For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.








[-] 1 points by Dutchess (499) 12 years ago

very nice posting

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 12 years ago

It's over now anyway, the new defense bill will put all protestors in prison and anyone who speaks against the government. Martial law is here folks so I won't be coming back here anymore.

[-] 1 points by 99thpercentile (94) 12 years ago

This is the 99%. Did you expect everybody to all believe exactly the same thing?

[-] 0 points by karenpoore (902) 12 years ago

No, but we need to be on the same page regarding truth. Divided they control - together we can take our country back.

[-] 1 points by 99thpercentile (94) 12 years ago

The fact that there are multiple views is what allows the truth to come out. If everybody was saying the exact same thing then nobody would ever question what they were saying.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 12 years ago

Its a perfect slice of America!

[-] 1 points by GetaBrain (22) 12 years ago

So I guess you want it censored so only posts you approve of should be shown?

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 12 years ago

thgis forum is mort important thing for world in while..

[-] 1 points by TheTeachersVoiceOrg (1) 12 years ago

This Occupywallstreet.org forum or Chat room does not reflect the best minds NYCGA or other assemblies; this web site is run by a group that is supposed be supportive of NYCGA and other acutal occupying assemblies. So either occupywallst.org will have to do something about how poorly the movement reflects here and in its chat room, or we will. Any suggestions? Tho, I'm sure many like it just the way it is...peace.

[-] 1 points by Spankysmojo (849) 12 years ago

Anonymity has become a tool and a weapon. But for those who've seen it before it's a podium that allows the haters to spew venom without any consequence. I agree with you. This forum, unmonitored, is a reflection of the social behavior that brought us to the point of needing an OWS movement. Unfortunately only we see this.

[-] 1 points by nugrooven (8) 12 years ago

Very eloquently stated...


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

Search This Website

This is a tread to organize forum Topics by category

Please do not respond to posts here. Follow the link to the thread and post there.

I've been collecting and organizing thread heads. Each thread head post has a link to thread on this forum so some threads have been ordered and can be brought back up.

The Protest

The Issues


general catch all



[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 12 years ago

The search website does not work anymore. Do you know why?


[-] 0 points by Thrasymaque (-2138) 12 years ago

That's sad. I enjoyed that site. It gave a semblance of order to the forum.

[-] 1 points by MaryS (529) 12 years ago

The best way to use this forum is to figure out who the intelligent writers are and ignore the rest.

[-] 2 points by nugrooven (8) 12 years ago

Very hard to do, it seems that 9/10 are either anti-semitic or conspiracy theories or conservatives who come here to trash the movement.

[-] -1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

I like a plan and have always considered them an intelligent, important thing.

The comprehensiveness of a plan is where the real evaluation is done.


A plan with comprehensive strategy is vital and it is primary to assure that information needed for proper amendment, as well as methods to develop informed opinion is in the peoples control at the onset of the article 5 convention.


[-] -1 points by OWSWhat (66) 12 years ago

Does that mean that we ignore all the libtards?? just saying!!!

[-] 1 points by MaryS (529) 12 years ago

It means what it said: find a few good writers who really have something intelligent to say, follow their posts, and ignore people like you.

[-] 1 points by karenpoore (902) 12 years ago

Good point! What exactly is the purpose of this forum? Anyone know? Is it accomplishing anything positive?

[-] 2 points by kingscrosssection (314) 12 years ago

It makes me angry. Take that as you will.

[-] -1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Glad to have indirectly extracted an honest impression. I too am angry.

[-] 1 points by kingscrosssection (314) 12 years ago

What's with the ART5 on your name?

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

It shows unconditional support for the US constitution relating to meeting all the demands of the movement. The movement has no strategy for gaining the needed authority ot meet demands. Made a thread about it.


[-] 1 points by GreedKills (1119) 12 years ago

It's seems to me this forum does more to hurt OWS than helps.

[-] 1 points by nugrooven (8) 12 years ago

@GreedKills you are absolutely right!

[-] -1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

There are a number of very sincere people here, many are also confused and mislead or under educated. I do not really consider this their fault, not by any means. It is very difficult to sort out what is real and what is not in the nwo internet, social infiltration environements.

When it lacks a common sense positive plan every day, ohhhh man, that gets depressing. That no such plan is adopted and shared, understood, embraced and acted on, that hurts.

We have an absolutely AWESOME social contract that has been the dream of the worlds free souls. We have been corrupted so that we might loosen our grip upon it or its power over our government. It has worked. Accordingly those that can read between the lines and observe the absolutes can see that constitutional natural law works with those things. They can decide to identify unconditionally with the extension of the constitution, of the Magna Carta which the Declaration of Independence carries forwards in spirit and civil war reconstruction era civil rights laws reiterate in certain ways. They can do that by re registering with ART5 following their username.

When there is no plan or overt demand protecting the constitution, giving OWS the high ground, while provacatuers and media collude to smear OWS, THEN the cognitive infiltrations of false origin, diluters and confusers, turn it into a circus, yes it doesn't help much.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

Getting to the point where it was very clear to me that a subtle social fear is in control of OWS and some people here and to compose this thread in focus on function. So the forum has accomplished that just by existing and drawing people to share perceptions, ideas, knowledge, evidence etc.

The users of teh forum and perhaps the OWS protesters themselves really are not aware this. There is an illogical fear of associating with the US constitution. A fear of being socially ridiculed with "government lover" accusations. Doing something so radical as making the constitution a part of your name is too much for them. Despite the fact that government IS NOT the constitution. It is something that works under the constitution as the ideal controlling it.

If our government has turned oppressive, its because WE or our parents have NEGLECTED to use our rights to protect our rights. Not because the Constitution is in any way related to the intents of the oppressive infiltration that has taken place. That "comfort and security" thing Franklin mentioned has been co-oped by corporate dependence and we've forgotten what unity under our social contract means, what it can do for us, how it can protect us and futures.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 12 years ago

Yep. It is.

[-] 0 points by eyeofthetiger (304) 12 years ago

Can you get a degree from a university?

[-] 0 points by eyeofthetiger (304) 12 years ago

do giraffes have long necks?



[-] 0 points by eyeofthetiger (304) 12 years ago

do oranges come in different colors?

[-] 0 points by pinker (586) 12 years ago

This is a public forum. Meet the masses. It ain't pretty, but it's reality. You can close the doors, lock out the undesirables and opinions of others who may disagree with you or may even hate you. But then what do you have? A gated community.



[-] 0 points by vincentg (5) 12 years ago

reading the posts here tells me that ows is winning. this corrupt system is so afraid of ows , that it is spending lots of time and effort, here, in an attempt to bring us down. they are so scared that if i yelled boo, they would shit their pants. training web page http://tinyurl.com/7rvpv43


[-] 0 points by JadedGem (895) 12 years ago

No pain, no gain. Win over a troll! Go ahead. Its great to sit around talking to like minded people but the opportunity to share with others who disagree is far more important. You can't win over every troll. That's okay. You say your peace when you have the right words for the task and don't worry about the rest. Some of the trolls are really regular good people given half a chance to shine. You don't have to change the whole world over night, in a day, or all by yourself. Take a break. Watch some real news, think, give what you can and learn to let go. My God the jails are full, people are not all just basically good, get over it and come back and comment here and there if the mood strikes you.

[-] 1 points by nugrooven (8) 12 years ago

You can't reason with people who post things like "all the 1% are jews."

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 12 years ago

I totally agree! Its okay to ignore any of them you want to! I just roll my eyes and ask myself how long it took them to come up with that.

[-] -1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

I spend most of my time seeking people that will disagree and use logic, reason and law to do it. Evidence is also needed. Priorities are a must.

I do not conduct cognitive distortions which include the use of the word, "troll", a label intended by cognitive dissonance to minimize a role that actually promotes cognitive failures in groups trying to understand a situation.

There is no real news.

We have a social contract that is capable of preserving our rights and freedoms and if it is true, "the jails are full, people are not all just basically good," then they have been intentionally corrupted past what they were that made the constitution and fought to keep it whole.

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

I agree - the people on this forum are "helter skelter" at best. I made comments on the chat room about marching on Washington DC and I was booted of and still am.

So, I now know that unless a person agrees with what someone else is saying and can't inject an "intellegent comment" they will get booted.

[-] -1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

There appears to be an element that only thinks in a kind of Euro socialism mode here, which migth be seen as prallel or merging with anarchism. Therein is the "helter skelter" aspect. I would not generalize the forum that way.

There is an element of people with political agenda that are perhaps trying to do a good thing in a lame, system way. Stuff that is not going to work, or won't work on its own but might b very useful and functional if coupled with other things. Those are not actually "special interests" but tending to be that way.

There is an outright infiltration by hired help or possibly bots in control of a few poster that keep pure crap cycling. So knowing the difference is vital.

A good rule for vetting the posts here is the "useful information aspect". "Can the info ever be used in any way to meed a demand made?"

[-] -1 points by w9illiam (97) 12 years ago

At least it gives us a platform to debate with opposing points of view witch is exactly what the movement needs. Just by talking with supporters and trolls alike I have changed my stance on several key issues but my conservative principals remain intact. I think that by talking with others in this forum we have a chance to actually find middle ground with supporters and opposition. We might evan turn a troll into a supporter if you dont sound to stubborn or opinionated. Just ignore all the racist and violent minded people. i have had a few productive conversations with trolls and supporters with different views than mine on this forum. It also gives us a little insight into the mind of the one percent and how they feel. This is not a movement with the purpose of dividing us (I hope not). We should try to find common ground with trolls and the 1% so we can find a constructive solution to break down the wall between the rich and poor and help level things of a bit. It would be much smoother and much better for all of us if we all (including trolls and 1%) worked together to settle our differences rather than demanding all this free stuff. We dont want to topple the central government completely this would be a disaster. We just need to reform it so that the politicians only enact laws that benefit all Americans not just a few super rich big spenders with deep pockets and strong lobbying firms. You might be shocked if you knew how many of the 1% agreed with us on a lot of key issues like Lobbying and kick backs, protecting the bill of rights, ending government corruption, using tax dollars to prop up foreign governments that are destine to fail, giving a trillion dollars to big banks and so forth. They dont like these things either and if we want to turn this movement into something that is going to bring meaningful change we need to find common ground or risk dividing our great nation.

[-] -1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 12 years ago

I've made an OWS "function gauge thread".


We have 2 others posting besides myself. I think that measures sincerity and levels of confusion and/or unreasonable social fears controlling people. EXACTLY what the nwo is counting on to get away with trashing our rights and freedom permanently.

[-] -1 points by OWSWhat (66) 12 years ago

The moderators have all jumped ship because this fucking movement is hosed. Now run along and go find a job

[-] 1 points by nugrooven (8) 12 years ago

There are no jobs fool, that is why this is happening...