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Forum Post: There is no difference - Democrats and republicans are the same! Give me a break!

Posted 2 years ago on June 9, 2012, 10:20 a.m. EST by bensdad (8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement


Give me a break -
There is no difference
A broken finger
There is no difference
A broken neck
There is no difference
If you say it often enough, you will believe!


Robert Draper Book: GOP's Anti-Obama Campaign Started Night Of Inauguration Do Not Ask What Good We Do

WASHINGTON -- As President Barack Obama was celebrating his inauguration at various balls, top Republican lawmakers and strategists were conjuring up ways to submarine his presidency at a private dinner in Washington.

The event -- which provides a telling revelation for how quickly the post-election climate soured -- serves as the prologue of Robert Draper's much-discussed and heavily-reported new book, "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives."

The guest list that night (which was just over 15 people in total) included Republican Reps. Eric Cantor (Va.), Kevin McCarthy (Calif.), Paul Ryan (Wis.), Pete Sessions (Texas), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Pete Hoekstra (Mich.) and Dan Lungren (Calif.), along with Republican Sens. Jim DeMint (S.C.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Ensign (Nev.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.). The non-lawmakers present included Newt Gingrich, several years removed from his presidential campaign, and Frank Luntz, the long-time Republican wordsmith. Notably absent were Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) -- who, Draper writes, had an acrimonious relationship with Luntz.

For several hours in the Caucus Room (a high-end D.C. establishment), they plotted out ways to not just win back political power, but to also put the brakes on Obama's legislative platform.

"If you act like you're the minority, you're going to stay in the minority," McCarthy as saying. "We've gotta challenge them on every single bill and challenge them on every single campaign."

The conversation got only more specific from there, Kyl suggested going after incoming Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner for failing to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes while at the International Monetary Fund. Gingrich noted that House Ways and Means Chairman Charlie Rangel (D-N.Y.) had a similar tax problem. McCarthy chimed in to declare "there's a web" before arguing that Republicans could put pressure on any Democrat who accepted campaign money from Rangel to give it back.

The dinner lasted nearly four hours. They parted company giddily. The Republicans had agreed on a way forward: Go after Geithner. (And indeed Kyl did, the next day: ‘Would you answer my question rather than dancing around it—please?’) Show united and unyielding opposition to the president’s economic policies. (Eight days later, Minority Whip Cantor would hold the House Republicans to a unanimous No against Obama’s economic stimulus plan.)
Begin attacking vulnerable Democrats on the airwaves. (The first National Republican Congressional Committee attack ads would run in less than two months.)
Win the spear point of the House in 2010. Jab Obama relentlessly in 2011. Win the White House and the Senate in 2012.
"You will remember this day," Draper reports Newt Gingrich as saying on the way out. "You’ll remember this as the day the seeds of 2012 were sown."
Draper's timeline is correct. On Jan. 21, 2009, Kyl aggressively questioned Geithner during his confirmation hearings. On Jan. 28, 2009, House GOP leadership held the line against the stimulus package (Senate GOP leadership would prove less successful in stopping defections).
The votes, of course, can be attributed to legitimate philosophical objection to the idea of stimulus spending as well as sincere concern that the secretary of the Treasury should personally have a clean tax-paying record. But what Draper's book makes clear is that blunt electoral-minded ambitions were the animating force. Whether or not that's shocking depends on the degree to which one's view of politics has been jaded. What's certainly noteworthy is the timing. When Mitch McConnell said in October 2010 that his party's primary goal in the next Congress was to make Obama a one-term president, it was treated as remarkably candid and deeply cynical. Had he said it publicly in January 2009, it would likely have caused an uproar. By extension, however, the Draper anecdote also negatively reflects on the Obama administration for failing to appreciate how quickly congressional Republicans would oppose the president's agenda.

424 Comments

424 Comments


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[-] 7 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

You Democrats crack me up.

[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Same Here ! Only Problem is "Bat-Shit Crazy" Republicons make me shit my pants !!

Here's to clean underwear !!!

verum ex absurdo ...

[-] 5 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

The sad thing is they actually think things will get better by electing democrats. They really believe that. They really believe obama gives a fuck about their lives and their families. It makes me pity them that they wait for the immasculated spineless democrats to save them.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Let's not forget tho' that there are lots of progressive people with real 'fire in their bellies' all over The U$A who only vote 'Democrap' because they have no other choice - a bit like wiping their own bottoms !!!

Now, after the 'Presidential Selection' in November 2012 - it has got to be 'high fkn time' to work hard towards A True Third Party representing Labour, 'The Co-Operative Ethos' and The 99% !!

Third, Fourth and Fifth Parties even and 'True Independents' are urgently needed !

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

"fire in the belly" and voting for someone because there are no other choices should not be in the same sentence.

Fire in the belly USED to lead to creating something new.

Now it just leads to bitching for 4 years and then voting for idiots.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

I get you but the 'wiping bottoms' analogy still holds !!!

pax et lux et clean underwear !!

spero meliora !

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5909) 2 years ago

Perhaps a Cooperative Party focusing on the expansion of cooperatives, credit unions, and public banks at the state and local level.

[-] 3 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

Exactly ... so now we do have a choice (do it ourselves and the hell with Washington), they're obviously not going to help us (I'm not sure how much more needs to happen before people realize this)? I mean, I understand the affinity for democrats, they talk the talk, but they're also full of shit. Whether they're spineless or just a bunch of liars, it doesn't really matter. Even if they have a magical election cycle come to Jesus moment, we know it won't mean anything. The minute election day is over, all those promises will just as quickly disappear.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Here is real Treason not so explicitly displayed since Nixon and Watergate! Arguably, Raygun and Iran-Contra, was just as bad. And then there's Allowing 911, Lying us into two wars, Crashing the Economy, Bush-Cheney. All RepubliCon. All Treason. And you nit-pick on Dems??

Forget decency! Have you lost your sense of reality??

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

I don't know about a cooperative party in the sense of a political party. I don't know that there is enough awareness around the subject so it may be something that is a long way off prehaps a few decades. I will certainly support starting up cooperatives and raising awarness that there is an alternative to corporate capitalism. Prehaps there should be an effort to bring cooperatives and credit unions under the same banner to raise awareness.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

In order to aid and abet any considerations and cogitations on all things "Co-operative", I append :

The last link is a particularly interesting article from a US perspective by a UK blogger.

fiat lux ...

[+] -4 points by anarkos (-7) 2 years ago

How can you abet a consideration or cogitation? Abetting is that act of assisting someone in doing a crime. You can't abet a thing like a consideration... Man you kids are funny when you try to play with big words.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

You are factually wrong and patently unable to use or access a dictionary / thesaurus ! Please stop your tedious attention seeking and parading your limitations here especially in the context of mere four letter words - lest I'm forced to selectively employ one or two more !! Do you have any more substantive thoughts to contribute on the matter of "The Co-operative Ethos" or its implications for The USA ?!!!

temet nosce ...

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Abet - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abet to actively second and encourage (as an activity or plan). 2. : to assist or support in the achievement of a purpose. — abet·ment -mənt\ noun. — abet·tor also ...

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

In case anarkos is a visual learner.....

http://graphwords.com/word#abet

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Some people are limited as they do not know how to explore - and yes there are many different combinations to an individuals ability to perceive. Some are more oriented to visual some to aural some to both with a need to work through an idea in a physical way - learn by doing/experience. Perception is an interesting thing and can vary greatly between individuals.

[-] -2 points by anarkos (-7) 2 years ago

The definition of the Merriam-Webster is not very good. It says nothing about encouraging to commit a crime or offense, it only states to encourage. To abet is always to encourage an offense of some sort and can only be performed by a person, not a thing or concept.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Nope - you are one tracking - it is often heard used in a reference like that - but it is not it's only use.

Your thinking is narrow.

[-] 0 points by anarkos (-7) 2 years ago

Thinking can't be narrow. but it is not it's (its) only use.

Use a real dictionary and read up on the etymology of the word.

Your thinking and writing are sloppy.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It's = possessive or abets use.

Your thinking is very limited.

[-] -1 points by anarkos (-7) 2 years ago

If you assume to be able to judge my thinking by reading a few of my posts, then I think it's safe to assume your thinking is of the most limited kind.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I note your usage or restriction of usage and it says a lot about how you think. So far you show a tendency of a closed mind.

Your fault in your presentation and reactions.

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (5909) 2 years ago

Well, the very act of creating a political party brings awareness to the issues of the political party, the Green Party and the Tea Party being examples of this. They don't get overwhelming support but people know they're there and what they're about.

[-] 1 points by JackHall (413) 2 years ago

That was supposed to be the Democrats. The Democrats are a brand that people can identify through Roosevelt, Kennedy and Johnson.

If you know anything about the 20th century the Democrats are the party. Roosevelt beat the Republicans 4 elections in a row:1932, 1936, 1940 and 1944. The Republican party hasn't changed since 1932. That's why we have rolling recessions. Democrats create a surplus. Americans become stupid. Republicans take over the government.

[-] 0 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

If you truly care about having a third party, then you'll vote for a third party at the upcoming elections, and not wait afterwards.

ad stupidum

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Care to list The "Third Party" Options at the moment ? ad iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

green party socialist party tea party not sure if liberterian party is a party or not. or just vote for a ficus tree

my personal philosphy is vote for were the money isn't so vote for anyone but those two

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

Thanx for your answer. There is also 'The American Labour Party' ; 'The Socialist Party of Labour' & a whole slew of others ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States ). Further, readers will note poster "bbbbboy's" inability and disinclination to back up his specious, mendacious double-speak with any kind of answer.

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by forjustice (178) from Kearney, NE 2 years ago

I like the Justice Party and Rocky Anderson.

http://www.justicepartyusa.org/

http://www.voterocky.org/

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

The whole both parties are the same argument is a fabrication of the Right (Big Money, Koch Brothers, GOP, conservative, Karl Rove, Dick Armey, Teabag, Milton Friedman, Nixon, Shock Doctrine, Raygun, Cheney, Limbaugh, RepubliCon) to discourage the Vote as they have been doing at least since Raygun. Because the lower the Vote (US: lowest voter turnout) the more Cons get elected. The higher the votes, the more Dems get elected.

We are in a Class War, the plan is Shock Doctrine, it's waged by King-Cons. They have no qualms with sabotaging the People, the country, or the world to achieve their goal. And they own the media which keeps you uninformed.

Protesting is great to wake the American People, but if you want to make real changes WE have to turn out the Vote! Here's why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skiWxrzXeJc

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Try listening to a voice from the black left. http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-voice-from-the-black-left/

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Not getting worse is better.

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

It's gonna get worse no matter which one of these jackasses gets elected.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

It does matter which jackass get elected.

[-] 0 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

You keep telling yourself that and keep voting democrat buddy!

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Dems didn't sign Norquist pledge! Isn't that an important difference?

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Try listening to a voice from the black left.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-voice-from-the-black-left/

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Unimpressed! You ignored the Norquist pledge difference because you have no answer. How about the Buffett rule? Dems for. Repubs against. Isn't that an important difference?

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Its bullshit. What happened to the employee free choice act? Where was obamas comfortable walking shoes during the recall election in Wisconsin? Didn't obama mention renegotiating Nafta? Then he goes and passes a bunch of other free trade agreements? Not to mention his aggressive militarisim and warmongering. You people on here that espouse obama don't really seem to care about being against that thing. You just want the republicans to lose. You don't care about that all you do is come on here and drone endlessly about how bad the republicans are and how good obama is. Take a look at what he is doing. Name one good thing this guy has done since he's been in office. One issue thats made our lives better. We needed black FDR not black reagan.

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

"black FDR, not black Reagan" is racist. Keep that ignorance to yourself. You suggested the parties are the same. I realize there are similarities. I acknowledge thattheDems have serious problems. mainly that they have moved right for the last 30 years, and they have lost their backbone against the repub right wing. but they are still vastly different. You haven't challenged my last 2 examples So I guess I'm right. How about Alternative energy? Repubs are against dems support it. Isn't that an important difference?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

demns should have created government programs for alternative energy

not pay outs to private companies

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Yeah. if only repubs didn't obstruct and block any green legislation with historic level use of the filibuster.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

It is a waste of time arguing with someone who wants to see YOUR blood running in the streets, a rather primitive form of election.

It builds on, "Let's you and him go fight."

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Some prescriptions are worse than the disease. Some people break their necks jumping out of vehicles before they go over cliffs.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

The RepubliCon Treason revealed in the OP is the source of the "disease." We are in the middle of King-Con Class War (Shock Doctrine) and IT IS the Disease!!

All this crap about Cons = Dems is Voter sabotage, anti-democracy espionage!

The whole both parties are the same argument is a fabrication of the Right (Big Money, Koch Brothers, GOP, conservative, Karl Rove, Dick Armey, Teabag, Milton Friedman, Nixon, Shock Doctrine, Raygun, Cheney, Limbaugh, RepubliCon) to discourage the Vote as they have been doing at least since Raygun. Because the lower the Vote (US: lowest voter turnout) the more Cons get elected. The higher the votes, the more Dems get elected.

We are in a Class War, the plan is Shock Doctrine, it's waged by King-Cons. They have no qualms with sabotaging the People, the country, or the world to achieve their goal. And they own the media which keeps you uninformed. Why are MSM ignoring this book?

Protesting is great to wake the American People, but if you want to make real changes WE have to turn out the Vote! Here's why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skiWxrzXeJc

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

There was a time when sabotage was an unacceptable political strategy and those who sabotaged American's assets were dealt with harshly. Can saboteurs label themselves Patriots? Doesn't convince me.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Well, as long as a large segment regular people don't understand how important PARTICIPATION is to our electoral system of government, and as long as another small segment of regular people joins the 20% of clinically insane GOP Voters and Vote against their own best interests, these criminal Cons will remain in our government to sabotage another day and prove to the oblivious that government doesn't work.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I really can't argue with your analysis. The challenge is to break the cycle and I don't have the magic can opener.

Treason, sabotage, subversion, never imagined they would be terms used in conversations about American current events.

Americans for Prosperity, American Crossroads, Americans for Tax Reform, Tea Party Patriots, If it has American, Freedom, Patriot, in it, it is probably a fascist (generic) front for the Koch's 1%er's et al.

We can identify the problem but it probably requires more than a can opener. More like a Swiss army knife. Lot's of groups with lots of tactics and a whole lot of perseverance.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I appreciate the distinction. I didn't say all, but scoundrels love to wrap themselves in the flag.

I am generally not in favor of calling people names but when the conduct earns the label, we should not be shy about calling it by its proper name.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Just stay away from that creepy website you PMed me about a month ago.

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3998) 2 years ago

LOLOLOL !!

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

LOL

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

If we weren't laughing, we would be crying.

[-] 2 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago
[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

I agree. VOTE. It does matter and in our polarized country it matters more than ever.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Yes, but we have to get some better choices by next time.

[-] -3 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

If we did all this just to keep doing all this, the King-Cons will cum in their pants! Don't make the King-Cons cum in their pants!

Our participation ~ direct or encouraged ~ in the electoral process is how we realize the solutions and remedies to the problems ~ Class Warfare ~ we protest. Occupy the wake-up, then Occupy the election!!

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

right on JS. Occupy the ballot box. If we don't vote then we lost touch with what's real. Voting is the way to change. Voting like third graders, gets us a congress that acts like third graders.

Can all of us please pledge to use our god given brains to make this a better world NOW!!!

We need critical thinkers!!!

Just

Puzzlin

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

One step at a time. let's break 60% turnout!

[-] 3 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

If Obama is too preoccupied with taking care of number one (himself) to take some initiative and stand for something (and show a little backbone for once), then maybe I'll take the hint & make a special point of doing something just for ME on election day. Maybe a massage (certainly more fun than standing on line at the election booth).

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

or maybe he can figure out how to keep your 24 year old son on your insurance

or maybe he can figure out how to keep you insured when you change jobs with a pre-existing hear condition

or maybe he can figure out how to keep you employed by not shutting down GM

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

OR maybe he is angling a 400 lb King-Con agenda with 10 lb test!!!

Our Votes strengthen his line, our gullibility strengthens the King-Con agenda!!!

[-] 1 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

All well and good, but all of this still reinforces the top down authoritarian structure of our society. Social democracy is okay, but it's just a hybrid variation of what we've always had.

[-] 3 points by frogmanofborneo (602) from New York, NY 2 years ago

It's not that the Democrats are better than the Republicans, it's about the mood and morale of the progressive elements of society and the mood and morale of the neanderthals. That matters, and that's why Wisconsin was a setback and why the Republicans have to be defeated. They clearly are going to have mega bucks more than the Democrats. To defeat them would be a victory over the Koch brothers and the cave people of the Tea Party.

Also, people! Learn about the Mormons! They are a disciplined well organized and funded right wing cult. They will tell you anything to get over on you.

http://nomormonpresidentnomittromney2012.blogspot.com/

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

soros has spent about 400 million $ to subvert america as founded. the koch brothers, about 7 mil,

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

No the Koch's have pledged $40 million each to just one PAC, and with their buddies, at least $200 million total . Much more through various other shells. What are they paying you?

[-] 2 points by JackHall (413) 2 years ago

The working class people can make the difference.

The Paul Ryan wing of the Republican Party is part of the counterattack on Franklin Roosevelt began as the Reagan Revolution. President Obama has to withdraw troops from Afghanistan and defend what remains of the New Deal. Let say the Republican Party that has been captured by Wall St has already forgotten how laissez-faire capitalism led to deregulation of financial markets as they propose legislation to oppose regulatory reform. Obama and the Democrats should have never tried to negotiate with Republicans when Democrats had the power and momentum to offer unemployment solutions similar to what FDR did in his first 100 days.

House Republicans passed H.R. 5652, Paul Ryan's Sequester Replacement Reconciliation Act of 2012, by a vote of 218 to 199. This reconciliation act does many things; one is that it takes lots of money from poverty relief programs and gives it to the military, and another is that it renegs on automatic cuts that were agreed to as a result of the Super Committee's failure, which will almost certainly trigger a crisis on the next debt ceiling fight. But for our purposes, one specific thing it does is revoke Title II of Dodd-Frank, which is the resolution authority powers. This allowed the regulators to fire the board when a bank failed and replace the entire management. It creates a regulatory vacuum.

Paul Ryan Hidden Agendas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8T_m3ERkH8&feature=related [right click]

What remains of the New Deal must be defended and protected at all costs.That part of New Deal that can be salvaged must be restored.

Remember, when FDR implemented the New Deal, the United States was not the dominant military power that spent more on WMD than the entire planet.

It will be a choice between guns or butter for future generations.

FDR-MIC-GOP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?playnext=1&index=0&feature=&v=TRw-OQYDe2M&list=PLB2D49C0052A45996

George Carlin - Why you are in debt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkWf9M3rUw&feature=related [right click]

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

the best way
the only way
to NOT have the ryan apocalypse
is to NOT vote for any of his lemmings

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Now they've "declared war" on those damnable librul words too.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/06/11/virginia-republicans-declare-war-on-liberal-words/

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - the war on science - the science of global warming - Virginia government ( backed by Corpo-rat interests ) says - No - No - I don't wanna hear it.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

As he stated, it's a "war" on liberal words.

The "war" on democracy, is well under way.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - democracy is almost dead.

It is definitely in the ICU on life support.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

How long before the Kochs/(R)epelican'ts are drilling and fraking the Great Lakes?

Wisconsin is now theirs and Michigan appears to be next, and no one even notices or cares.

They are far too busy being distracted by national politics.

That's just what Dr. Koch ordered.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Society fails when the people are removed from the process.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/society-fails-when-the-people-are-removed-from-the/

This time around we can not allow them to shut us out.

The birth of world wide protest - we will see if we can make a difference.

We need to wake the rest of the unaware up.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

It's a bit late for Wisconsin, and it soon will be too late for Michigan.

Now I'm told I can't point out the (R)epelican'ts are doing these things.

But they are.

Now that is just one more loss. One more tool in box, that can't be used.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The debacle in Wisconsin was of mixed cause. Wisconsin has much to learn yet - and I do not think they will have long to wait.

The rest of us can learn by keeping an eye on such places.

Recognizing common cause will be easier to do as this road we are on progresses.

Just have to pray that awareness does not come too late.

Onward Occupy the world needs to wake-up.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You're wrong DK.

Wisconsin was simple. It proved the effectiveness of citizens united.

The appearance of anything else is just an adjunct of that.

More money was likely given to multi-pronged marketing/PR.

It just hid behind the monies openly given to Walker.

Michigan is the prize

They are very hard at work here, and no one even notices.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No prob shooz - we see things a bit differently - we are still both working to support the end of greed corruption and crime in our society and in our world.

Have at it in your way. I am not here to fight with you. I am here to support you and all other good people in this fight.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I think the only place we seriously differ, is in your belief that there are no differences between the parties.

As I've said before, it's less obvious on the federal level, especially in foreign policy. Yet it is becoming increasingly obvious in the States.

I've also attempted to make clear my belief that it really isn't because of the 2 parties. It's the third one that is infecting them.

The neo-libertarians. The corporate libertarians. Whatever you want to call them.

These aren't your typical Mr. P libertarians, they are the Koch bros. style libertarians.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I never said that I see no differences between the parties.

I have no idea how you got the idea that I see no differences in the parties - in the officials who are in office at this point in time.

All I ever say is for people to look at the issues and see who stands for them and who stands against them.

I ask that people look at those issues and see what they are about and whether the issue should be supported or opposed.

I also ask for people to look at who is in office right now that is standing in the way of recovery and social progress.

Sorry if my approach does not meet with your approval.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

didn't democratic senators win in Wisconsin ?

I honestly found that a bit odd

I wonder if their districts voted walker

(I can't research current events due to browser being blocked)

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Just enough to give them a slight majority in the statehouse.

Much of that money will start pouring into Michigan now.

The longest shoreline in the 48, all of it on the Great Lakes, and ripe for drilling....Plus all that fresh water.

Detroit/Windsor is the 1st or 2nd busiest international border crossing in the World.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

it just seems rigged

that why I was wondering if walker got support from those counties that voted in Democrats

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I never saw an analysis of that. That does make me curious though.

If I find something, I'll let you know.

[-] 2 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

The GOP wants to gain political power and control by any means as they have proven very well in the last three years. The ends justifies the means which is default when truth is ignored. The moment Obama took the Whitehouse they couldn't help themselves and even announced publicly they intended to dismantle Obama's presidency (before it was too late). Their one sighted goal, destroy Obama.

This is exactly what we have witnessed as they play brinkmanship with Us economy. They don't care if they bring it down as long as they can wrap it around Obama's neck and choke him out with it. They incessantly blame Obama for everything's that wrong. They can't even give Obama credit for getting OBL. It was Bush, who publicly said it didn't care about OBL.

The lies the GOP make are so thick, it's just a wonder that the truth seems to always take a back seat to their right wing agenda. So, they degrade the truth with their rabid desire to gain political superiority. For them the truth is debatable even if evidence shows the folly of debating that which is proven beyond any doubt. They would debate the scientific fact of gravity because it's just theory after all. It seems the GOP has filled it's ranks with science class flunkies. Truth must be proven and the scientific method is one hell of a good way to accomplish it.

The GOP hides the real truth with their confusion and lies. This is how they operate, they are just going further to the right as they leave truth behind.

Global Warming, imaginary, or real???

The Puzzler

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

The would-be Kings (powers that be ~ Power Elite) who own the RepubliCon Cult (who worship them) already control everything they want. Big Lie Propaganda, MSM, Fox, RW Hate-Lie Radio, Citizens United untold secret funds and a massive Voter Suppression campaign maintains our "Lowest Voter Turnout" status, but these elections (this democracy thing they despise) are still a wild card. But they are working on it.

The weapon King-Cons are always trying to hide from the People, is the Vote!

[-] 1 points by Puzzlin (2898) 2 years ago

The vote is what their also trying to take away from us as the GOP continues to declare a War On Voting. The GOP will stop at nothing to gain power.

The ends justifies the means. Whatever means as long as they get what they want.

[-] 2 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

It's very important for Obama to get re-elected. He can then take his place among the giants such as Reagan, Clinton, and Bush as a two-term president. Then we can label him a 'winner'. There are only winners and losers in America. The sky will fall if Obama is not re-elected. (sarc)

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

do you just love the paul ryan budget?

[-] 2 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

They don't know from Ryan, they are just blind saboteurs. They're just saying anything that might discourage a Vote. Think how much easier that is than actually coming up with a viable solution! Think how quiet they are about solutions! "Fuck Obama" is a solution?? Mama Grizzly or Crazy Eyes Supreme CJ?? NO WAY!!

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Obama 2012 Smacks Down Jim Clyburn For Criticizing Bain & Vampire

Equity Firms, Obama Supporters Pretend Not to Notice by BAR managing editor Bruce A. Dixon

What's more disgusting? An original act of cynical hypocrisy, like President Barack Obama's hollow criticisms of Mitt Romney's parasitic Bain Capital, while his own campaign and administration are honeycombed with execs and consultants from similar and even bigger bloodsuckers like J.P. Morgan and Goldman Sachs, or the craven chorus of diehard Obama supporters insisting that we look the other way every time their president and his team show what side they're really on?

When Newark mayor and Obama campaign surrogate Corey Booker on Meet The Press defended the way so-called “private equity” firms like Bain Capital make their money he was defending his own, and the president's friends on Wall Street who do the same thing Bain Capital does, and who make both their careers and the careers of an entire generation of Democratic party politicians possible.

So how did the chorus of Obama supporters respond? For a solid week Obama fans, most of them avid supporters of Booker until then, fell all over each other denouncing Corey for not representing their president, or more accurately their idea of this president. Somebody should have noticed that in all that time, nobody from the White House or the Obama campaign denounced Corey Booker.

But when South Carolina's Jim Clyburn accurately described Bain Capital's technique as enriching its partners by “raping” companies they acquired the Obama campaign wasted no time in publicly smacking Clyburn down. Barack Obama and his campaign know that if public anger is focused at the vampire capital industry rather than just at Romney's Bain Capital alone, it's bad news for them and their campaign contributors as well. So their self-interested hypocrisy is understandable, though not excusable.

Less understandable, and less excusable was the sheeplike reaction of Obama fans. The week before they flooded online forums, call-in shows, email lists and the like with screeds on how Booker's views didn't represent their president. Instead of getting behind their imaginary President Obama --- the one who opposes vampire capital, and lining up with Rep. Clyburn, an avid supporter of the president himself, Obama supporters pretended to ignore Clyburn, and also looked away in silence as the Obama campaign publicly smacked him down. Denial is potent and deceit is powerful. Nobody likes to admit being deceived, or being used to help deceive others. But with trillions of dollars and power on the line, or sometimes just the illusion of being near that power, deceit and denial are everyday facts of American political life, especially among supporters of our First Black President.

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

obama is the worst president ever. if obama is re-elected, america is done because obama will continue his destructive anti amerian polices.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

tell dave & charlie that you earned your paycheck

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

You know what's really funny, no one is addressing the Treason revealed in the OP. Change of subject is the unanimous response, just like the MSM these zombies always call "Liberal."

The dufus above goes crazy over the "great Clyburn controversy," but could you imagine if Dems ever got caught even conspiring to go to lunch together???

However bad our national political neglect makes Dems seem like Cons, Dems don't commit treason and sabotage the country (PERIOD!).

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

You probably don't remember Johnson, Andrew Johnson that is? Then there was George W. Bush. How about him?

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

carter and wilson, the worst presidents ever,.........until 0bama took the title from them.

[-] 3 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

No, I disagree. Clearly Nixon out ranks both of these.

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Is this the difference between the two parties you were telling me about? http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/06/13-5

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Nobody has clean hands. Never said they did.First of all, I don't favor free trade. But net it out and I still say the Dems are far less urgently threatening. IMHO. I would rather have a car that needs a ring job than one with no engine.

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Then you are truely blind

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

There are still more of me than there are of you and at current rates of change, if chaos occurs, the probability of your bunch prevailing is very small indeed. And if your response that my probability is also poor, I can't disagree. But I am far from blind.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

I have it a solid tie between Nixon and Dubya

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

I am comfortable with that assessment.

[-] 0 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

why?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

He truly was psychotic which led him to an insane war which killed huge numbers of innocent people directly and many more indirectly, He blatantly violated the constitution And misdirected the country's resources with consequences for decades. The tapes being released recently show him to be much worse than anyone suspected. The more we learn about his presidency the better it looks.

Carter was a much better president and if his energy policies had been followed the country would be in a much stronger position than it is. Must of the criticism was sarcasism without substance.

[-] 0 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

if you're talking about vietnam, nixon didnt start it , he ended it.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Sllloooooowwwwwlllllyyyyy. And bombed the crap out of ,,,,?

[-] 0 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

johnson did that with the tet offensive.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Everybody's doin' it.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

So get your guy in there. We'll just get rid of him in 4 years. No more 2 termers. You seriously think Romney will do 8 years? Ha Ha.

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

romney gets elected, the country begings its recovery, he gets another 4 years. the market went up a a lot the day after walker won. thats confidence.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

walker will lose -
wait for the felony indictments
can you say "governor kleefisch" ?

[-] -1 points by camams (7) 2 years ago

You have to let it go, it is over with. The people of Wisconsin are the ones that pulled the trigger. Soon other States will follow suit and we will start to put an end to the public union trash

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

If the economy doesn't get MUCH better after Romney is elected there will be violence. Do you understand? Be smart and just say yes.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

willard = paul ryan budget = soylent green

[-] 2 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Political parties are like street gangs, bloods and crips, red and blue, republican and democrat. Each member gives up their power to the leaders at the expense of their own. They feel powerful as part of a group, but now they answer to the leaders, not their own voice.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

only if you choose to be

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

So close but so far away.

If the "bloods" are the Cons and "crips" are the Dems, the leaders of the bloods are the 1% Kings and the leaders of the crips are the 99% People, and the people are asleep, drunk, Foxed, and/or fighting each other.

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Jeffrey Dahmer and Barry Bonds are the same. They both broke the law.

The was a time when sabotage was a crime.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

It would be if a Dem did anything even close!

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 2 years ago

Blind justice? What a concept. Just think about all of the scale thumbs that would be out of work? Sad.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Hush now. You're not supposed to notice.

Then there's the full support of these guys.

http://truth-out.org/news/item/9687-the-kochs-double-whammy

[-] 1 points by michael1963 (4) 2 years ago

maybe O W S will have the freedom of speech

[-] 1 points by michael1963 (4) 2 years ago

drive on O W S

[-] 1 points by michael1963 (4) 2 years ago

If Obama had a twin brother he would look like Bush and if they where triplets their other brother would be Vladimir Putin and yes their mother would be Queen Elizabeth. This is the order of things and if you don’t get that you are at this point a little slow. None of these leaders take care of their hurting people so conspires or not their all the same. True or false?

[-] 1 points by michael1963 (4) 2 years ago

drive on O W S

[-] 1 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Is this the difference you are talking about?

WASHINGTON -- A critical document from President Barack Obama's free trade negotiations with eight Pacific nations was leaked online early Wednesday morning, revealing that the administration intends to bestow radical new political powers upon multinational corporations, contradicting prior promises.

The leaked document has been posted on the website of Public Citizen, a long-time critic of the administration's trade objectives. The new leak follows substantial controversy surrounding the secrecy of the talks, in which some members of Congress have complained they are not being given the same access to trade documents that corporate officials receive.

"The outrageous stuff in this leaked text may well be why U.S. trade officials have been so extremely secretive about these past two years of [trade] negotiations," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen's Global Trade Watch in a written statement.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has been so incensed by the lack of access as to introduce legislation requiring further disclosure. House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has gone so far as to leak a separate document from the talks on his website. Other Senators are considering writing a letter to Ron Kirk, the top trade negotiator under Obama, demanding more disclosure.

The newly leaked document is one of the most controversial of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact. It addresses a broad sweep of regulations governing international investment and reveals the Obama administration's advocacy for policies that environmental activists, financial reform advocates and labor unions have long rejected for eroding key protections currently in domestic laws.

Under the agreement currently being advocated by the Obama administration, American corporations would continue to be subject to domestic laws and regulations on the environment, banking and other issues. But foreign corporations operating within the U.S. would be permitted to appeal key American legal or regulatory rulings to an international tribunal. That international tribunal would be granted the power to overrule American law and impose trade sanctions on the United States for failing to abide by its rulings.

The terms run contrary to campaign promises issued by Obama and the Democratic Party during the 2008 campaign.

"We will not negotiate bilateral trade agreements that stop the government from protecting the environment, food safety, or the health of its citizens; give greater rights to foreign investors than to U.S. investors; require the privatization of our vital public services; or prevent developing country governments from adopting humanitarian licensing policies to improve access to life-saving medications," reads the campaign document.

Yet nearly all of those vows are violated by the leaked Trans-Pacific document. The one that is not contravened in the present document -- regarding access to life-saving medication -- is in conflict with a previously leaked document on intellectual property (IP) standards.

"Bush was better than Obama on this," said Judit Rius, U.S. manager of Doctors Without Borders Access to Medicines Campaign, referring to the medication rules. "It's pathetic, but it is what it is. The world's upside-down."

The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative insists that while broad standards require many medical patents and IP rules that would increase the price of medications, the U.S. intends to work with countries involved in the Trans-Pacific talks to ensure that the agreement does not restrict access to life-saving drugs.

USTR was not immediately available to comment on the newly leaked investment chapter of the Trans-Pacific deal, and has previously stated that it cannot comment on the terms of an allegedly leaked document.

That statement is belied somewhat by recent American efforts in other international negotiations to establish controversial medical patents that grant companies long-term monopolies on life-saving medications. Those monopolies increase drug prices, which impede access to medications, particularly in developing nations. The World Health Organization and dozens of nonprofit public health groups have objected to the standards sought by the Obama administration. Two United Nations groups recently urged global governments not to agree to trade terms currently being advocated by the Obama administration, on the grounds that such rules would hurt public health.

Such foreign investment standards have also come under fire at home, from both conservative sovereignty purists and progressive activists for the potential to hamper domestic priorities implemented by democratically elected leaders. The North American Free Trade Agreement, passed by Congress in 1993, and a host of subsequent trade pacts granted corporations new powers that had previously been reserved for sovereign nations and that have allowed companies to sue nations directly over issues.

But while the current trade deal could pose a challenge to American sovereignty, large corporations headquartered in the U.S. could potentially benefit from it by using the same terms to oppose the laws of foreign governments. If one of the eight Pacific nations involved in the talks passes a new rule to which an American firm objects, that U.S. company could take the country to court directly in international tribunals.

Public Citizen challenged the independence of these international tribunals, noting that "The tribunals would be staffed by private sector lawyers that rotate between acting as 'judges' and as advocates for the investors suing the governments," according to the text of the agreement.

In early June, a tribunal at the World Bank agreed to hear a case involving similar foreign investment standards, in which El Salvador banned cyanide-based gold mining on the basis of objections from the Catholic Church and environmental activists. If the World Bank rules against El Salvador, it could overturn the nation's domestic laws at the behest of a foreign corporation.

Basic public health and land-use rules would be subject to challenge before an international tribunal, as would bank regulations at capital levels that might be used to stymie bank runs or financial crises. The IMF has advocated the use of such capital controls, which would be prohibited under the current version of the leaked trade pact. Although several countries have proposed exceptions that would allow them to regulate speculative financial bets, the U.S. has resisted those proposals, according to Public Citizen.

Trans-Pacific negotiations have been taking place throughout the Obama presidency. The deal is strongly supported by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the top lobbying group for American corporations. Obama's Republican opponent in the 2012 presidential elections, Mitt Romney, has urged the U.S. to finalize the deal as soon as possible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/obama-trade-document- leak_n_1592593.html

http://www.citizenstrade.org/ctc/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tppinvestment.pdf

[-] 1 points by timirninja (263) 2 years ago

WTF? If you trying to understand, - Raise the questions . Who is on top of it?

[-] 1 points by ronniepaul2012 (214) 2 years ago

Good Lord. Have you been asleep since Feb or 09???????

[-] 1 points by JoeW (109) 2 years ago

A good option for the American people in my humble opinion would be to overcome the collective action problem behind getting a majority of our politically enfranchised population to vote for "no confidence" or some other term with a similar implication. For all candidates on all ballots.

We can't change the system significantly by relying on the system's rules.

[-] 1 points by Skippy2 (485) 2 years ago

I vote against all new taxes/fees. I vote against all judges. I vote against all changes to my state constitution. I vote against ALL Incumbents. One day, I hope to find a candidate I can vote FOR. That day isn't here yet.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

you would vote against a candidate who promised to raise taxes on incomes over $1,000,000 ?
You accept the premise that voting for no one will give you the best government?

[-] 1 points by Skippy2 (485) 2 years ago

Some small farmers have income over $1 mil one year then negative the next. Examples abound. I would rather have a flat tax with no loop holes for every one above poverty line. All individuals and all corps. Only church exempt income would be dollars spent directly for sanctuary and charity. Payroll, admin, property all taxed. Also, tax could not be raised without "super majority" and in time of legally declared war or disaster with a damage cost above 3% GDP. said tax increase to expire each year unless another "super majority" vote.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

There's a big difference between good democrats like Bernie Sanders, Dennis Kucinich, Alan Grayson, and the faux democrat California style republican like Barack Obama.

Obama has utilized International Development Solutions, formerly known as Black Water. He's bombed more countries than Bush. And he supports Bush era policies like the patriot act and bank bailouts.

I definitely lean democrat when I vote, and I voted for Obama in 2008, I was rooting for Kucinich, but since 2009 Obama has been a complete betrayal on so many issues.

Corporate cash, talking points over voting record, and media whores fooled people into backing Obama over a real option. Dennis Kucinich should have had the support. He was the only democrat on stage to vote no against the patriot act and who also tried to impeach Bush.

When it comes to war, the majority of democrats and repubs are very similar in their voting history. Wall Street deregulations - D and R support for Financial Modernization Act and even the Republican JOBS Act which didn't create a single job and removed regulations put in place after ENRON.

War -

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Same thing

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. ... for the sake of protecting our friends and allies, the United States will lead a mighty coalition of freedom-loving nations and disarm Saddam Hussein." George W Bush

Same thing

President Obama stated on January 24, 2012, "Let there be no doubt: America is determined to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, and I will take no options off the table to achieve that goal."

Same thing

U.S. policy toward Iran must begin with an understanding on Iran’s part that a military option to deal with their nuclear program remains on the table. - Mitt Romney

Same thing

"The Price Is Worth It" - Madeline Albright - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4PgpbQfxgo

Iraq and WMD's - Bill Clinton - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0f5u_0ytUs

Iraq, WMD's and Bush - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-o0wV0ZH9Y

Iran WMD's and Obama - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXsHCPdFMEo

Congress budgets for war in Iran in NDAA of 2013, with bipartisan support - "(b) Declaration of Policy- It shall be the policy of the United States to take all necessary measures, including military action if required, to prevent Iran from threatening the United States, its allies, or Iran's neighbors with a nuclear weapon."

Section 1221: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c112d0yc3G:e737116:

Section 1222: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c112d0yc3G:e739917:

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Yes, and only Bernie Sanders still survives the King-Con attacks.

On Boards and Forums like this, Zombies and Trolls attack and silence voices who present the worst threat to the King-Con grip on, and acquisition of, power and ignore the voices who advocate ideas that present no threat to, or actually helps, their cause.

The whole both parties are the same argument is a fabrication of the Right (Big Money, Koch Brothers, GOP, conservative, Karl Rove, Dick Armey, Teabag, Milton Friedman, Nixon, Shock Doctrine, Raygun, Cheney, Limbaugh, RepubliCon) to discourage the Vote as they have been doing at least since Raygun. Because the lower the Vote (US: lowest voter turnout) the more Cons get elected. The higher the votes, the more Dems get elected.

We are in a Class War, the plan is Shock Doctrine, it's waged by King-Cons. They have no qualms with sabotaging the People, the country, or the whole world to achieve their goal. And they own the media which keeps you uninformed.

Protesting is great to wake the American People, but if you want to make real changes WE have to turn out the Vote! Here's why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skiWxrzXeJc

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

The republican party is a monstrosity. Not saying both parties are the same. But when it comes to war, they vote the same way. When it comes to deregulating Wall Street, they vote the same way.

Financial Modernization Act. You know what that is right? Bipartisan support. We need more democrats like the ones I listed. The others need to go. Congress in particular.

You're uninformed if you think the wars aren't apart of that plan you listed.

Voting records don't lie.

[-] -1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Because of our national negligence of our Electoral Political Process as described in the link I provided above, we the People have Reps and policies that don't exactly favor us ~ they favor the top 1%.

Now, the powers that be, the Power Elite, the 1% Kings control everything, EVERYTHING!

They own the Cons, but they only have remote power over the Dems. So when Cons are in power and invade Iraq, they seem powerful, because they are willing servants. When Dems are in power and the Kings want more oil, Dems have to choose between apposing them and seeming impotent, or going along and saving face. You have to figure out the rest on your own. Open your simple, black and white mind.

Votes strengthen a Dem's hand!! Pouting strenthens the King-Cons!!

Wake up and get involved!

[-] -2 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

"The whole both parties are the same argument is a fabrication of the Right (Big Money, Koch Brothers, GOP, conservative, Karl Rove, Dick Armey, Teabag, Milton Friedman, Nixon, Shock Doctrine, Raygun, Cheney, Limbaugh, RepubliCon)"

Where do you keep getting this absolute bullshit from? Hey Genius why would Reps want people to think both parties are the same? What possible good would it be to Reps to have people think that they are just as destructive, incompetent and anti-American as the Leftist Progtard Dems are?

You need to spend some more time coming up with better theories cause you really suck at this shit.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

How did you miss it: "Because the lower the Vote (US: lowest voter turnout) the more Cons get elected. The higher the votes, the more Dems get elected."

Dems get discouraged, Cons are zombies who will follow the Cult off a cliff.

[-] -2 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

You're explanation is just as fucked up and demented as your fucked up and demented theory. Now I'm fully convinced,you are the text book example of why Obama got elected in 2008. Your level of ignorance and your complete obfuscation of facts and basic reality is further proof of this.

[-] -2 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

That means I'm right on track.

Thanx!

[-] -1 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Yeah,yeah,yeah,I get it you're on the right track baby you were born this way.......being delusional is not a good thing but hey,neither is sitting in a park for months shitting on Cop cars and raping women. But it's your life,be as ignorant,arrogant and uninformed as you like. You're on the right track.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

When you become president you get to say NO a couple times during your administration. Obama couldn't do it. Clinton couldn't do it. Call it what you want- having a backbone, putting up a fight, or killing the hostages. It's just not in the dems to do it.

[-] 1 points by macphisto (13) 2 years ago

From Italy... Obama looks Cool...But thats about it... We have Mario Monti..yeah,a Goldman Sachs and Bilderberg product.... No wonder they get on so well

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

The whole both parties are the same argument is a fabrication of the Right (Big Money, Koch Brothers, GOP, conservative, Karl Rove, Dick Armey, Teabag, Milton Friedman, Nixon, Shock Doctrine, Raygun, Cheney, Limbaugh, RepubliCon) to discourage the Vote as they have been doing at least since Raygun. Because the lower the Vote (US: lowest voter turnout) the more Cons get elected. The higher the votes, the more Dems get elected.

We are in a Class War, the plan is Shock Doctrine, it's waged by King-Cons. They have no qualms with sabotaging the People, the country, or the world to achieve their goal. And they own the media which keeps you uninformed.

Protesting is great to wake the American People, but if you want to make real changes WE have to turn out the Vote! Here's why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skiWxrzXeJc

[-] 0 points by barefootaccountant (1) 2 years ago

In 1985 when the Democratic Leadership Council took control of the Democratic National Committee, the Democrats sold out to Corporate America. Hence, Bill Clinton raised big money to win the Presidential nomination in 1992; and Barack Obama raised enough money to defeat John McCain: Goldman Sachs was Obama's single largest contributor in 2008.

Consequently, on economics, there is little difference between the Democrats and Republicans: they both represent the wealthy interests in our nation.

As a result, I left the Democratic Party after President Obama reneged on virtually all of his campaign promises. I am now supporting a true progressive candidate, Rocky Anderson, for President. (Please see the Barefoot Accountant’s Interview of Rocky Anderson, Presidential Candidate of the Justice Party, on May 29, 2012 at http://www.cpa-connecticut.com/blog/?p=5455)

All the Republicans and most of the Democrats in Washington are bought and paid for by Corporate America. We need to support a third party candidate who will change the status quo: voting for the lesser of two evils perpetuates our evil system. They will always follow the money and screw us in the end.

If Egypt can overthrow a dictatorship, so can we, if we all dedicate ourselves to this end. We all need to come together and make this happen now.

The Barefoot Accountant

http://www.cpa-connecticut.com/blog/

[-] 3 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

third parties NEVER win vote third if you want the paul ryan budget and you want to privatize medicare, medicaid, social security, army, prisons

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Instant Runoff Elections would be a great help for third parties, but Cons will never EVER let IREs become reality. The idea is less democracy, not more!

Wake Up People!

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 2 years ago

So these 15 people are the ones who made Obama a clueless fool?

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Yes - the clueless fool who proposed at least three major jobs bills that would have put millions of Americans to work
These were the 15 monsters who put their owners ahead of their country
These were the 15 monsters who put their pledge to grover first

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 2 years ago

How would any of those union protection bills put 'millions' to work?

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

many business are under employed and simply run their workers into the ground

the workers could request a lighter work load per hour if more workers were hired

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Thank you so much for asking me to detail just one of his bills-


Citing new challenges to the U.S. economy from abroad, President Obama urged Republicans in Congress to help pass more components of the $447 billion American Jobs Act he proposed last year in order to slow ongoing public-sector layoffs.

“Given the signs of weakness in the world economy, not just in Europe but also some softening in Asia, it’s critical we take the actions we can to strengthen the American economy right now,” Obama said in a Friday press conference at the White House. “Last September, I sent Congress a detailed jobs plan full of the bipartisan ideas that would put more Americans back to work. It had broad support from the American people, it was fully paid for. If Congress had passed it in full, we’d be on track to have a million more Americans working this year.”

Noting that the private sector in America had added jobs for 27 months in a row, Obama urged Congress to act and keep public employees at their jobs amid tough budget cuts at the state and local levels around the country. His bill includes spending on infrastructure projects in order to employ construction workers, aid to states to keep teachers, firefighters and cops at work, and tax breaks to help spur businesses to hire, all paid for by a tax increase on wealthy Americans.


but you would not want to pay more tax, would you?

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 2 years ago

He sent union protection bills, you really can't say how the 447 billion would provide anything but government union protection can you. What was there for the private sector where actual wealth is produced? Nothing but lip service.

The economy won't recover until the boot of government is removed. Obama is quite pleased with our economy, it's producing new Democrats every day. :)

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

And when infrastructure is built by government union postal workers and teachers ??????????????

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

You're not getting it!!! Anything the Guvmint do is bad and fails!!!

Guvmint should be run like Wall Street and Enron!!! Like a Big Biz do!!!

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

at least, we can look into what went wrong with government projects

private companies are much more opaque

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

If you can't write in English, could you please provide a Legend, Glossary or Code Book.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

did I tell you to write shorter sentences ?

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Grammar!

This isn't UR cell!

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

Can't vote against pure grammar. What kind of imposition would you impose?

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 2 years ago

Are you insane?

[-] -2 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

RON PAUL is different...he has been saying what we want for decades!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK5X4dYl7Bw&feature=related

[-] 3 points by know1 (210) 2 years ago

I read his book "end the fed". It didn't educate me at all

[-] -1 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

maybe you read it wrong or couldn't understand the message, you should try again, with effort

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

Maybe Ron Paul should write it again and make sense this time.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 2 years ago

thank u

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 2 years ago

u r welcome ;-)

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 2 years ago

did u read it, ron pauls book 'end the fed' it did not explane the way money is created, or how we would create it if we "ended the fed" , He just said it has to be backed by gold, ridiculous, and that we have to balance the buget,also ridiculous. He didnt get into what the fed is "supposed to be doing or how we would do it in its absence. For some reason he did not take the oppurtunity to educate us about money, at all. The subject of how our monitary system works is off limits and he did not challange that

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 2 years ago

above

[-] 0 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Did you even watch the video I posted? It will be supported by the workers of the US, not by the fed. It will be supported by actual capital and not the idea that we can spend all we want and make up for it later. By cutting the taxes and cutting the spending budget on foreign wars and foreign interference, we can support our country with our own capital. A balanced budget means the creation of capital with jobs on one side, and the spending cuts on military, foreign wars, and unconstitutional policies like the fed on the other. The fed is there to back the banks not the American people or the constitution. This is what occupy wants, this is what Ron Paul advocates.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 2 years ago

no i didnt see the video ill look

[-] 0 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Thank you. He does have a point. He has had a valid point for the last 30 years and no one will listen. It's time we start, Occupy can help make him heard. Through him, we can be heard. His message is the same as ours, he just completes it through politics and well planned economic strategies.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I want public healthcare

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

It would be much worse than RepubliCon Treason for our country to join the rest of the modern world and provide it for you, and me. But the 1% Kings who own the Cons like having a money-siphoning middleman Insurance Industry Health Care racket just fine.

Wake up and smell the difference!

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I want government healthcare

I don't want to pay to some self interest private insurance company

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

No one in their right mind does!

The power of Death Panel Propaganda.

Shock Doctrine. A Con strategy.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

Hard to get that done. When the dems failed in the 90's that's when they gave up on the country and we've been looted ever since. Throw in Glass-Steagall and we're sitting ducks.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the dems excel at failure to pass healthcare

even with super majorities

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 2 years ago

They've taken payoffs for the last 15 years. They couldn't get it passed with a full majority. It's all bull. they can't even come up with their own plan- they take republican plans.

[-] -1 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Why would we need public healthcare if our own capital and job creation can support the healthcare we have now? The idea of balancing the budget will give the people the power to pay for their healthcare on their own because the jobs and the capital will be available to do so. The reason we can't afford the system right now is because there are no jobs because we are spending all the money on things we don't need.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

got cut's in the mouth ?

I want public healthcare government jobs

tax the upper crust in 1952 the top income tax was 92%

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/history-of-american-income-tax-rates/

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Punctuation enables the writer to communicate.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

and line breaks

[-] 0 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

got cut's in the mouth? What does that even mean?

Government jobs in public healthcare? Public healthcare? Government jobs? I'm not really understanding what "public healthcare" system it is that you want. Could you elaborate on what exactly it is that you want?

Second of all, that article you posted is saying that the poor should not be allowed to take from the rich just because they are poor. Paul does not believe in the income tax, for anyone. He's a TRUE Republican. He is talking about eventually being able to eliminate taxes by cutting the unnecessary spending and creating jobs and capital that will eventually replace the need for an income tax. The only reason there is an income tax is because the government can't spend money if the people don't give it to them.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

like the firemen and libraries

health care available to the public

[-] 1 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Eventually that might be a possibility, but for now we have to get the economy back up before we start spending money on new programs. If this country can get back on its own feet and have the capital to back a system like that they will be able to. Doing it by income tax is not the way to do it because it will just create more debt that the people cannot afford, and will put us right back where we started. You can have your public healthcare, but right now we need jobs and capital.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Which is what this OP is about!

Getting rid of economy sabotaging RepubliCon traitors so that we can finally repair the damage done by Cheney-Bush!!

Get Out the Vote!

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

no now

we have the resources and ability

government will provide the jobs

[-] 1 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

with what money? what resources?

Our main problem is that people cannot start their own businesses anymore. Once we have our own capital we can begin to build those businesses and create our own privately funded healthcare system for the public.

It's time we start relying on ourselves for the things we need, not rely on the government to hand it to us by using our own money. We just need the government to stop taking our money so we can use it on the things we want.

If the government stops taking our money for wars and invasion, we will be able to use that money to build those systems instead of using it to fund a government that uses it for whatever they deem fit. If the policy changes and the taxes stop, we don't have to ask for permission to use our money for the things we want.

check out his healthcare policy: http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/health-care/

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 2 years ago

do we not have resources, human and otherwise. YES WE DO. What we dont have rite now is money. that because the banks and gov. want it that way, The only way money comes into existance in this system is through loans; to individuals, bussineses, or governments. If all 3 arent getting enough new loans the money supply shrinks and we have resession, that simple. THats what i meant when i said ron paul didnt take the opportunity to tell us how the monitary system works. Cutting gov sendin ( borrowing) rite now would only shrink the money supply more and deepen ithe ressession. that how they kept the great depreession going so long , cut spending. then ww2 came along and they had all the money in the world We could do the same for the world rite now, except this time, spend all that money to make the world a beautiful place to be

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

then work for the 1%


the money should be taxed from the reach and reintroduced at the bottom through government jobs

loans create interest which ends with more money in the hands who have numbers called money

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

why should privately funded banks get money?

[-] -1 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

No, the people do not have the resources, the government and big business do. There are no loans available because big businesses have monopolies and smaller businesses cannot survive or receive funds from the banks that support the big businesses over small business because they have the capital. You need to look at all the things that are affecting the economy, not just that we don't have money but what is causing it. Only by finding the cause, can we propose a solution. Take out big business who are supported by the banks and thus by the fed, and you create the opportunity for small businesses to flourish through privately funded banks that are not backed by the federal reserve (where there is no actual capital) but through actual capital that individuals build for themselves through working.

[-] -3 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

ever thought of WORKING for money?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the earth and nation we live in

the farms and trucks and factories and mines and ocean and fish

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the people should own the government

demand elections be national and state holidays

[-] -1 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

yes, but who should own those things? the people, not the government as you are suggesting. Placing the government in control of our economy places them in control of our money, our capital. If we work, we should be able to use that money for what we want. We are the ones working for it after all. Why should the people who are working (not including those who get bailouts and who commit fraud) have to pay for the people who aren't (not the ones who are unable, but the ones who are able and aren't)? The only people the government should be helping are those who are unable to help themselves, and right now that's a lot of people because the government has not provided the people with the ability to create their own jobs by opening their own businesses. What Ron Paul is saying is that people will be able to use their own resources to create their own jobs without the help of the government as long as the government allows for them to create the jobs and capital by not taking their money through taxation.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Banks and corporations are sitting on $trillions in collusion with Cons to sabotage the country and Dems for their political gain. Pure evil treason!

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Nader gave us the Iraq war – deregulation – halliburton - alito - roberts etc etc etc etc
Just think of the fun America will have if you vote for another third party candidate!
President Bain Romney ! ……… and more scalia clones like thomas

You gotta believe –
………….the only ones who don’t want you to vote Democratic-
…………………………………………………………………….are the tea potty !

You remember “George-yellowcake uranium”.
You remember “ Dick-Iam not a crook”.
You remember “Ronnie-I don’t remember my treasonous acts”.

Now we have “Ron-I don’t remember my disgusting newletters”.

@--> A 1992 passage from the Ron Paul Political Report about the Los Angeles riots read, “Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks.” Another Paul newsletter asserted that people with AIDS should not be allowed to eat in restaurants because “AIDS can be transmitted by saliva”;

@--> In 1990 one of Ron Paul’s publications criticized Ronald Reagan for having gone along with the creation of the federal holiday honoring the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., which it called “Hate Whitey Day.”

@--> Ron Paul’s newsletter called Barbara Jordan, the African-American Texas congresswoman, a “half-educated victimologist” and said of crime in Washington, D.C., “I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.”

@--> ”If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be." - Ron Paul, 1992

@--> "Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal." - Ron Paul, 1992

@--> "We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such." - Ron Paul, 1992

@--> Ron Paul’s newsletter was listed by a neo-Nazi group called Heritage Front, as recommended reading. { you gotta believe the doctor }

@--> The September 1994 issue of the Ron Paul Survival Report states that “those who don’t commit sodomy, who don’t get blood a transfusion, and who don’t swap needles, are virtually assured of not getting AIDS unless they are deliberately infected by a malicious gay.”

@--> In the April 1993 Ron Paul Survival Report, the author states, “Whether [the 1993 World Trade Center bombing] was a setup by the Israeli Mossad, as a Jewish friend of mine suspects, or was truly a retaliation by the Islamic fundamentalists, matters little.”

@--> Ron Paul SIGNED 1993 appeal for funds letter: "Israeli lobby plays Congress like a cheap harmonica," warned of a "race war" and said there was a gay-led cover up of AIDS. The letter suggests, that new $100 bills distributed by the Treasury and ostensibly aimed at tracking drug money were instead aimed at keeping track of all citizens. "I held the ugly new bills in my hands," the letter says. "I can tell you -- they made my skin crawl!"
Then "my training as a physician helps me see through" what he calls the "federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS." The letter warns of a "coming race war in our big cities"

@--> Ron Paul December 2, 2011 Ron Paul Believes that Corporate Lobbying = Liberty: “I Take The Position That You Should Never Restrict Lobbying…”
About Citizens United - "It's corporations' money, they can do whatever they want with it."

You can claim – b.b.b.b.b.but Ron did not write these awful things! HE PRINTED THEM!


And I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that deregulating-Ron would not want

a regulating Food and Drug Administration to ensure the safety of your food or meds
[ if you are poisoned, your estate can sue ],
or
a regulating Environmental Protection Agency
[ if your land is poisoned by a fracker – move ],
or
a regulating Federal Aviation Administration
[ if you are a scardy cat, take the train ],
or
a regulating Nuclear Regulatory Commission
[ you don’t want your nuclears regulated, do you? ],
or
a regulating National Transportation and Safety Board
[ you know how to safety and crash test your car, don’t you? ],
or
a regulating Securities and Exchange Commission
[ you always elect honest corporate leaders, right ? ]
or
a nuclear bomb free Iran [ don’t all maniacs need one ? ]
or
a democratic ally in the middle east - like Israel
[ "Israeli lobby plays Congress like a cheap harmonica" – RP ]


Four years ago, Ron Paul generated controversy by not repudiating the endorsement of the neo-Nazi group Stormfront, This time, they seem proud about getting the support of a Nebraska Pastor who has made some revealing comments:
Ron Paul’s Iowa chairman, Drew Ivers, recently touted the endorsement
of Rev. Phillip G. Kayser
,
praising “the enlightening statements he makes on how Ron Paul’s approach to government is consistent with Christian beliefs.” Kayser’s views on homosexuality go way beyond the bounds of typical anti-gay evangelical politics and into the violent fringe - Kayser recently authored a paper arguing for
criminalizing homosexuality and advocated imposing the death penalty
against offenders based on his reading of Biblical law: “As we have seen, while many homosexuals would be executed, the threat of capital punishment can be restorative.”
Has Ron Paul repudiated this endorsement?

My guess is that just like
Ron Paul tried to shove the
Ron Paul Newsletters under the carpet,
Ron Paul will try to shove his
Ron Paul endorser there too

It is fascinating how, despite the fact that fox hates Ron Paul,
he uses the same tactics of deceit and obfuscation.


Please note – I’m not saying Ron is 100% nuts – just 99.4% pure


.................................................................
just a tiny fun fact - do you know who Ron named his senator son after?

google the libertarian queen’s name together with the name “William Hickman”


[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Obama’s War: Criminalize the Left A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Glen Ford

“The Obama legal team has been single-minded in its determination to make political dissent a crime.”

The Obama administration is methodically erecting the legal structures of a police state. The president late last year smoothed the way for bipartisan passage through Congress of a preventive detention bill that is so vaguely worded, a federal judge in New York last week ruled that it is likely to be successfully challenged on Constitutional grounds. And in Richmond, Virginia, a three-judge appeals court heard Justice Department lawyers argue that reporters can be compelled to reveal the identities of whistleblowers in so-called national security cases. The government is prosecuting a former CIA officer, Jeffrey Sterling, for allegedly leaking secret documents to New York Times investigative reporter James Risen. The ex-spy is accused of showing the reporter documents on the agency’s campaign of sabotage against Iran’s nuclear research program, information the reporter later used to write a book.

In both cases, the Obama legal team has been single-minded in its determination to make political dissent a crime. The judge in the preventive detention proceeding repeatedly asked the government to explain, specifically, how or if the seven plaintiffs might be detained under the wording of the National Defense Authorization Act, which makes it a crime to provide “substantial support” to groups “associated” with Al Qaida. The plaintiffs, including former New York Times correspondent Chris Hedges, academic activist Noam Chomsky, and Pentagon Papers leaker Daniel Ellsberg, wanted to know exactly what the terms “substantial support” and “associated groups” meant, and if their actions as journalists, authors, activists and just plain citizens made them vulnerable to detention without trial. Obama’s lawyers refused to explain, as if the vague and highly interpretable language spoke for itself. What they were trying to create is a legal trap so vague and amorphous that it can ensnare almost anyone opposed to Washington’s foreign policies. The New York federal judge refused to accommodate the government’s lawyers, and allowed the plaintiffs legal standing to sue.

“The Obama legal doctrine seems to be that whatever the government does not want the public to see, is criminal.” The Richmond federal appeals court is being asked to recognize the government’s contention that reporters who receive secret government documents are not protected as journalists because they are witnesses to a crime. One of the judges pressed the prosecutor to explain how the public’s interest in the maintenance of a free press might be outweighed by the specific circumstances of the case. Obama’s lawyers refused to explain, claiming there was no need to balance Constitutional issues, because the reporter was the only witness to a crime. Receiving secret government documents, he said, is the same as receiving illegal drugs. The Obama legal doctrine seems to be that whatever the government does not want the public to see, is criminal. Having knowledge of government wrongdoing is criminal, in the eyes of this administration.

President George Bush may have felt that way, too, but Obama will go down in history as the major architect to date of the evolving American police state. He has already prosecuted more whistleblowers than all his presidential predecessors, combined, and is the first chief executive to arm himself with a preventive detention law. And to think, Angela Davis says Obama identifies with the historical Black radical tradition. In reality, he has much more in common with the traditions of fascism.

[-] -1 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Where are your links to these newsletters? Where is your proof?

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by cjruhol (1) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I completely agree with the Obama post!

To the previous post bashing Ron Paul, where is your proof? And why are you posting like that? It's terrible discussion form.

[-] -2 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

I fail to see the problem with the idea that the GOP would want to "submarine" Barry's pseudo presidency. We all knew what this jackass was and who we were getting all during the election.

What loyal patriotic American wouldn't feel it's his/hers duty to " submarine" this piece of Leftist shit right from the get go?

We all knew what he wanted to accomplish but what we didn't count on was how absolutely cut throat and destructive this Chicago Thug really was.

"Fast and Furious" comes to mind as one of many scandals and corruption that as plagued Oblamers Mafia like Regime.

How many billions of taxpayers dollars have been thrown away on Green welfare (Obama contributors as well),only to see the company fold and lay off workers?

The wrong Rev. Wright told us all we needed to know about what BHO thought of this country (after all Barry was born in Kenya). But we didn't think he would actually try to "submarine" the economy quite so venomously while at the same time calling it a "stimulus".

I salute the GOP for trying their best to subvert this Islamic ego maniac as much as they did. However they should have done way more,sooner than later.

But one thing your butt buddy Oblamer does really well is execute his "kill list". Barry has given a whole new meaning to being an "Obama drone".

You can't fault him for killing some of America's enemies although it doesn't sit well with his Islamic com padres in the ME. I believe it's all a give and take however.

They give BHO a few dead Al Qaeda's and Barry let's the Muslim Bro Hood continue unabated with it's stealth insertion of Shari and other Muslim fundamental infrastructures into the very fabric of America. This is happening,all under the radar. GWB,even stupidly had a hand in this as well.

[-] 3 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

If Obama was born in Africa, Hillary would have been the first to confirm it. As much as I dislike his policies, without evidence, your accusation is just hot air.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Get HELP!

[-] -3 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

-129 you sure didn't get that by praising BHO and kissing Progtard ass,so what the fuck is your problem?

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

I speak the truth, don't pull punches and I'm very good.

Aren't you the lost nephew to the North Korean dynasty, Mentally Ill?

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I can't believe how they dissed the Lorax in the recent remake

The Lorax never insulted anyone

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

and because of his nebulous existence no one ever attacked him

[-] -2 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

You speak shit, it's all hunches and you're very lame.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

This comment spews racism and hatred. You say: "I salute the GOP for trying their best to subvert this Islamic ego maniac as much as they did." Wow. Sick. That is not what this forum is about, perhaps you should read the rules and try again.

[-] 3 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

This is why i rarely engage the right wing on here. I'm no supporter of obama as you know but this is bullshit on so many levels that it leads me to believe that this person is irrevocably delluded

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

I totally understand that and agree there is no getting through to them, but they do often get banned if the mods notice them. We have had some real doozies over the past several months.

[-] 3 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

flockodoofi stands out in my mind. Its like they want to live in a third world country. I can't understand where they are coming from. They think that people being dependant on the government for some services makes them enslaved to it but what they don't relize is without the government we would be completely enslaved to the corporations instead. Now I myself am a liberatarian socialist and would like to see the state wither and die myself but at least I have some marginal say in what happens in the government with my vote. I have absolutely no say in what goes on at goldman sachs or coca cola.To be dependant on institutions that I have no say in is real slavery. To me that is the real choice between the lesser of two evils

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

I, personally, think this insane way of thinking has its roots in the idea of the "rugged individual" except that the "rugged individual" now has an economic and political system that works to prevent him from barely being able to survive. The wealthy and corporations have used this ethos of the "rugged individual" to convince people that they too can be wealthy IF they work hard enough. And now, now, don't shame yourself by messing up and having to ask for help. Meanwhile, exploitation is at an all time high as wages and rights have been eroding for decades while profits have been increasing, and asking for help has become a necessity.

[-] 2 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

I agree.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

It's good to talk about it because sometimes people just don't realize how they got to where they are. It's like driving. Did you ever drive a fairly long distance and when you get there it's like the ride was a dream?

We need to fix this crazy belief and ethos that is the root of a lot of our problems.

[-] -3 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Just read your mutual admiration/Leftist pity party and had to laugh. All I hear from you Leftist's is how you want to change America.

"Rugged individualism" is at the core of our Founders and the America that has been built. The America you say now you want to "fundamentally transform" along with your Messiah.

It's amazing to read how completely fucked up in the head you all are. You are all completely clueless about what the REAL America was all about and you just spew this fucked up Socialist drivel like it's something good or great for the country.

I believe that the Dems are so beholden to your type of HARDCORE Leftist anti-American dogma that you propagandized Drones spew that there can be no comprise or meeting of the minds,there IS no middle or common ground anymore.

I know it's become political war and that's okay because the Left will lose.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Hate to break it to you, but the whole "Rugged individualism" thing is a totally fabricated RW fairytale, like those cheesy John Wayne and Stallone movies. The core ideal of the Founders and America was/is democracy (collective populace governance and society) and constant progress to strive for a more perfect union!!!

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

And the whole "Lone Wolf" BS that righties always trot out is all about subverting (divide and conquer) democracy, America and what the Founders achieved after Overthrowing the KING, by the Loyalists and Royalists who constitute today's RepubliCon Cult! And their Kings are the would-be Kings of the 1%. The OP we reply on is about the treason Cons commit to achieve the goal of Overthrowing democracy and America.

[-] -2 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

"America is a Constitutional Republic, Not a Democracy!"

May 29, 2012 By Adam Bilzerian “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

—Benjamin Franklin

A common misconception, even for Americans, is that the United States is a democracy. Even though it has drifted closer to democracy since its founding, the United States was purposely established as a constitutional republic.

In “The Federalist No. 10,” James Madison stated:

…democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

In his “The Federalist No. 14,” he stated:

The effect…[of having a republic over a democracy]…is, on the one hand, to refine and enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to or partial considerations. Under such a regulation, it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves convened for the purpose.

The main difference between the two forms of governments is the source of power. A republic derives its power from its charter, while a democracy derives its power from the majority. Since America’s Constitution, rather than the electorate, is the source of power, the United States must be termed a republic. The United States of America also has a Bill of Rights that guarantees protections for minorities, and a series of checks and balances in place to prevent one person or one group from becoming authoritarian.

Read more here:

http://thebilzerianreport.com/?p=1576

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

An insignificant discrepancy of newness, semantics and prejudice. Many early Americans could not and would not accept democracy, instead favoring the King's rule. They were a minute and discredited band of miscreants that eventually devolved into the Republican Party. A democratic Constitutional Republic is more like it. "We the People," "...all men created equal...," and "...government of the people, by the people, for the people..." all refer to "Our Great Experiment in democracy:" "In fact, the American Revolution was not just a movement for national independence from Great Britain; it was also a movement for the democratization of American society and politics as signified by the 1765 (democratic) right to Vote in American Colonies. Slowly all the details fell into place (culminating with suffrage for women and blacks) and America became a fully realized Democratic Republic. Democracy!

And only Ragged Masses were involved.

[-] -1 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

What a load of horse shit!!! Man,have you got issues.

[-] -3 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Then go away gnat! Shew...

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

You are the one who has been indoctrinated, my friend. Liberty without economic opportunity IS shackles. The Dems should only be beholden to HARDCORE Leftist dogma. LOL, which is not anti-American, btw. They're not. They're nearly as conservative as you tea partiers. YOU are the ones who are anti-America. You want to stick your head in the sand and cheer for a nation that is on the decline rather than try to figure out what is at the root of our problems. Cheering for low wages, eroded workers' rights, discrimination, a government bought and sold by the wealthy and corporations, the elimination of your privacy and right to protest, etc etc., is the anti-Americanism. They laugh at people like you because they control you.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

I saw that. See my comments on the Bill Maher thread.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Divide and conquer.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Mr. Majestic ( Charles Bronson ) would never stoop to asking for help to get in his watermelon crop - he was a true rugged individualist - course he was also the good guy being oppressed in a movie - but - Hey - what the hell - if that is how we rugged individualists are supposed to be - who am I to argue. See they just are not clear enough in their message to the people.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Bill Maher Sucks. He is a comedian who thinks he has something to say. He may have at one time - but now it looks like money has his speech.

A George Carlin he is not!!!!!!!

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

He used to be an independent or libertarian (what more do they need to know?) when he had Politically Incorrect and he made pointless jokes with no real understanding. Now he sees the light (what the hell took so long?) and his comedic observations are very poignant and meritorious, as was this one about some of the clueless and solution-adverse posters on this forum. OWS results in involvement with America's electoral political process, or it becomes a waste-of-time footnote in history. Just as Maher so astutely suggested, and I have been saying since it's inception. Continuing my fight against an indifferent populace and a tyrannical right since the scurrilous and specious attacks on President Carter and Raygun Dems!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

That is a polite way to put it. trashy is a bit more than deluded - but then you have not had much experience with the sockpuppet user - yet.

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

the sickness is obama.

[-] 2 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

The sickness is the Con treasonous sabotage enabled by a sleeping and under-informed electorate.

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

the electorate is informed, they kept walker in office.

[-] -3 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Hey, I'm supposed to be the "stupid" one here!!

Everyone knows that's a Koch Bros purchase, you're stealing my blunder!

[+] -4 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

"enabled by a sleeping and under-informed electorate."

You mean like the ones that voted Oblamer in 2008?

You sure like to project some real stupid theories.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Raygun Dems and 2010s!

You project some real stupidities!

If a Dem, not even a cabal, did anything like this, the rabid Blow Hogs on Hate and Lie RW radio, Fox Noise and 1% owned MSM would be apoplectic!

[-] -2 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Look,let me give you some advice,be very prudent where you pick your battles and also never try to defend the indefensible. You're having a HUGE problem with facts and a lot of fun with fantasy. You definitely are suffering from some form of lucid thought distortion.

[-] -3 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

You're an idiot. Go play on the freeway! Quit listening to the Blow Hogs.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Disliking Obama for his policies is completely different than disliking him because he had an African Muslim father.

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

my dislike is based on his ideology

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

That's fine and quite understandable. We're not a bunch of Obama cheerleaders here, believe me.

[+] -4 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

"We're not a bunch of Obama cheerleaders here"

That is a total lie and a completely disingenuous statement.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

How long have you been on this forum? Your profile says May 24th. I've been here since Oct. 13. Have you been here under other monikers?

Yes, there are some people on here who support Obama, whose position is that he is the lesser of the evils and they will hold their noses as they vote, but most of us do not cheerlead for Obama. I certainly do not. I want a whole new political and economic system that works for all people, and I want OWS to work outside the current system.

And, btw, if you don't like this forum, leave.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

I'm against King-Con sabotage and treason of our democracy and what America stands for, the People! Dems may need improvement for our abject neglect, but it's nothing that Voting in more Sanders and Graysons wouldn't help. Oh, and Dems don't collude to sabotage the country, that's strictly a King-Con thang!!

Wake up and smell the Treason!

[+] -4 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

The forum isn't about Obama re-elect 2012 either,like you and many of your fellow Drones use it as.

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

That's fine. I agree. Say that all you want but leave the racist b.s. somewhere else.

[+] -5 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Saying Obama was born in Kenya is NOT "racist".

Saying Obama is a " Islamic ego maniac" is NOT "racist". He is a known Islamic sympathizer (pseudo-Christian) and Barry is a narcissistic,ego maniac....these are the conclusion of many more people than just me.

Calling "racist" is your way,the Lefts way of trying to stifle uncomfortable subjects that are too close to the truth. The Left is all about muting dialogue that doesn't fit the Party narrative and "racist" is an over used tool that is only meant to shut people up and stop open free speech debate.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Since it's not true, it's either racist, or a conspiracy theory.

You didn't really think thrashy goes after the real CT pushers, did you?

[+] -6 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Oh no,here comes the MOST educated and completely lucid Leftist members of the OWS forum,come to grace us with more gems of intellect and prophetic pomposity.

Take your meds and go back to bed.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Well then, go "right" ahead and make some more stuff up.

You must be taking creative political writing at school, so lets see what else you got.

This one is hardly original. Sounds more like FLAKESnews drivel.

[+] -5 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Thanks for vividly illustrating my previous comment with such flair.

You never fail to fail and you never fail to disappoint.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

C'mon, that's not very creative either.

I know you can make stuff up better than that.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Saying someone is an egomaniac would not be racist, but adding in their religious or ethnic background to that is.

And, what IF Obama was a Muslim? Do you have a problem with 22% of the world's population? That kind of hatred is the problem. You generalize the actions of a few radical Muslims to the entire Islamic population. Gee, what if people did that same thing to Christian radicals? They exist, you know, and are just as pernicious.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

And this has what to do with the OP RepubliCon Treason?

[-] -1 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Not everybody has bought into your whackjob narrative.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Meaning just you!

The "RepubliCon Taliban"! Nice! With a domestic cult of terrorists like these, who needs Al Qaeda? How many jobs, homes, families and lives LOST by the treacherous misdeeds of these traitorous GOPs!!!???

[-] -1 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Yep,.....whackjob narrative,pretty much sums you up.

[-] -2 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

If you agreed with me, then I would be seriously concerned. You're whole perception of the world is a fraud.

[-] 0 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

93 must be the year you were hatched cause that would explain your complete ignorance and undeserved arrogance.

[-] -3 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

Please tell me of the last 'Christian' radical terrorist. As is said 'not all muslims are terrorist, but all terrorist are muslim'.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Giffords assassination attempt, AZ!!

OK City!!

Limbaugh!!

Cheney!!

Nixon!!

[-] 2 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

"Christian" radical terrorists?
The Koch Brothers, Grover Norquist, David Bossie, Noble Ellington, Dick Armey, Tony Perkins, Phyllis Schlafly, James Dobson, Tim Wildmon, David Barton, Edwin Feulner, Jr, Tim LaHaye, Kenneth Cribb, to name only a tiny few who identify themselves as Christians but who are basically terrorists using money and mass indoctrination as their weapons and don't care who they kill as a result. "America has enemies. Not just abroad, but within our shores as well. And our domestic enemies, as it turns out, are MORE dangerous and destructive than the terrorists could ever hope to be. Because while the terrorists want to destroy us, the following people and their organizations are doing far more damage.” Taken from "The Enemies Within: The 20 Most Dangerous Conservatives And Their Organizations."

[-] -3 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

oh my God, you are totally deranged.

[-] 2 points by MaryS (678) 2 years ago

Ok "bears," whatever. You are not worth arguing with. I wasn't expecting a reply really. But I consider myself a Christian and I like to point out that in no way could I EVER identify with the likes of them. They follow Ayn Rand, not Jesus Christ. They are greedy power mongers, they are modern day Pharisees and actually that is probably too good for some of them. They are my enemy and the enemies of freedom loving people because they are hell bent on making this country a theocracy. Your so called Christians have sold their souls to the devil.

[-] -1 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

that is a sign of the loony left, when you believe that American's with different perspective than you are more dangerous than a Muslim terrorist. Good luck with your life.

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

what else would you expect from a "useful idiot" of the left?

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

No, you are. Seriously deranged!!

Like the Nazis were!

Like sabotaging and treasonous RepubliCons are!

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Many beautiful loving people are Muslims as well as Christians. A few bad people are both, as well. Geez, there are even violent Buddhists in the world. Most of this has it's roots deep in historical events from long ago. Trade, exploration, colonization, privatization of land, boundaries around nations, nationalism, religious syncretism and proselytization, etc. have all contributed to the way the world is today.

[-] 3 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Not to mention the fact that the U.S. funded radical Islam to fight the godless communists during the cold war. Most of the governments in the middle east a couple of generations ago were secular. Look at pictures of Egyptian and Iranian women from the 40's and 50's no Burkha's. Look at them now. We also support probably one of the most brutal regeims in the middle east Saudi Arabia, which is where most of the radical Islamic funding comes from.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Exactly and if you reach even further back in history more and more comes to light as to why we're in the situation we're in today.

[-] -2 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

The Iran that you describe is the Iran of the Shah. The Egypt that you describe was the Egypt of Nasser, Sadat and Mubarak. Both allies of the U.S.. At some point, you have to stop blaming others (i.e. the U.S.) for the crazy muslim countries.

[-] 5 points by PeterKropotkin (1050) from Oakland, CA 2 years ago

Actually the Iran that i describe is the Iran that was under the democratically elected Mohammad Mosaddegh who was overthrown by the U.S. government which eventually led to the installation of the brutal Mohammad Reza Pahlavi regeime. The resulting backlash some years later leaves the people of Iran with the theocracy that it has today.

You can't expect to meddle in other peoples afairs and overthrow democratically elected governments and support despots that keep the economies of the countries they run in a third world condition and not expect what the C.I.A refers to as "blowback". I am aware that probably none of this matter to you because they are sub human muslims in your eyes but if you will imagine that the Chinese overthrew the U.S. government and installed a brutal puppet regiem much like vischey France that reduces the country to a third world shit hole. A place wher your children and their children can look forward to a life of squalor and hoplessness. Would you be angry?

Now imagine if the U.S. government had never supported the most backward, brutal and fanatical elements of the ressitence to the soviets in Afghanistan. Would there be an al queada today?

We are done here.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

Actually Reza Pahlavi fled Iran when Mossedegh was elected, fearing assassination, and he came back after a joint coup organised and financed by the UK's MI6. America's CIA believed a rather contentious line of bullshit from the UK's government, and it took a change of leadership in the US of A before this chain of events could become what the UK's MI6 wanted, so the US was also a pawn in this game, orchestrated by British Petroleum, or BP, who stood to lose control of Iran's oil reserves, when Mossedegh won popular support for nationalising Iran's oil supply.

The US of A did not initiate this political coup, but the country paid a heavy price for what they did, later in the revolution of Iran.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

private interest don't like nationalized resources

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 2 years ago

Private interests don't think twice about murder, destruction, or environment, when profit is at risk.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago
[-] -3 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

So let me get this straight, you are blaming the U.S. for creating al queada?

China could never destroy or conquer the U.S., unless wimps like you take power.

You are blaming the U.S. for the nuts in Iran? Plus the mullahs in Iran are worse than the Shah, and old Jimmy Carter help them come to power.

I don't see muslims as sub humans, i don't generalize like you. I do see Muslim terrorist as a serious threat to the U.S. . A threat that we must take seriously.

And for Egypt you had no comments.

[-] 2 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

The only serious threat to the US is the Cabal of greed-driven Zealots in the 1% and RepubliCons who are waging a class war on Americans and are trying to overthrow democracy!

[-] 0 points by EndTwoPartyTyranny (14) 2 years ago

"The word bipartisan means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out."--George Carlin

[-] -3 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Republican Hostage Taking – or ‘I Thought We Don’t Negotiate With Terrorists’ July 26, 2011 By Silence Dogood

Image from http://www.historyguy.com/iran-us_hostage_crisis.html

No compromise! Absolutely no raising of taxes! Slash Social Security and Medicare! Meet our demands and give us $1 trillion or we will blow up the economy! When did the Republican Party turn into Dr. Evil from Austin Powers?

Ronald Reagan said we don’t negotiate with terrorists, and George W. Bush reiterated this sentiment. But those patriotic Right-Wing extremists are terrorizing the US Federal Government with their threats, demands, and absolute refusal to compromise. They are holding our economy hostage in exchange for draconian cuts in our social services. This is a crisis of choice, being thrust upon us by the Republicans in office.

Temporary, unfunded tax cuts were used to stave off recession fears in 2001 and again in 2003. Two unfunded wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were waged to fight terrorism. A botched cost-cutting measure to Medicare granted a windfall to the pharmaceutical companies through Medicare, Part D. All of which is continuing to add to our deficit today.

But in order to balance our budget we are to share the sacrifice. While billionaire Warren Buffet suggests the rich should pay more in taxes than their secretaries, Senator Orrin Hatch says the poor should do more to shrink the national debt. Where is the shared sacrifice?

The only “shared sacrifice” Republicans are offering is in the suffering which will result from tanking our economy. Considering Mitch McConnell identified the Republican’s number one priority as “ensuring Obama is a one-term president,” it should come to no surprise they would stop at nothing to attain this goal.

Republicans view the operation of our federal government as being akin to a business. But what type of business are they using as their model? It is not a Microsoft or an Exxon/Mobil which will be their model, but rather one representative of a McDonald’s worker. Republicans are analogically representing taxes as wages and the debt ceiling as the national credit card. Using these analogies, Republicans are determined to tie our wages to minimum wage, take away the credit card, and tell us to “deal with it!” But of course, this is only after they have already dined their stomach’s full with everything on the menu which appealed to them. Now that it’s time to settle up the bill, they skip out on the rest of us. The Tea Party refuses to budge on raising the debt ceiling and the rest of the Republicans are still demanding their Holy Grail, the tax cuts.

We don’t care about the reasons a terrorist makes threats. We only care what the threats are and how to protect the victims. But this is the action of the current sitting Republican Party. No matter how anyone tries to spin this, it breaks down to just “meet our demands, or else!”

As John F. Kennedy very aptly said, “We cannot negotiate with those who say “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is negotiable.””

[-] -2 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

really? are you that stupid?

[-] -3 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Enemies abroad and within. Our worse ones are here, fighting to overthrow America and democracy. Yours are in your RW head:

http://www.alternet.org/media/155210/why_is_the_conservative_brain_more_fearful_the_alternate_reality_rightwingers_inhabit_is_terrifying?page=entire

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Does Big greedy Oil suite you better?

[-] -2 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

BGO does actually provide energy to get me to work. How is that wind and solar working for ya?

[-] -3 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Are you doing the clean up? Are you fighting the wars for it? Are you taking the bill for their evaded taxes and hoarded subsidies?

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

you are muy estupido, and very naive about the real world.

[+] -4 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

i've heard that before i.e. its not their fault because of xyz. I'm sorry but muslims have been the A-holes of the world for many years.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

If you learned the history, you might feel differently. Read one short little book for me "The Colonizer and the Colonized" by Albert Memmi.

[+] -5 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

are you looking for excuses to justify Muslim terrorist?

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Good grief.

[+] -5 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

Is that the best you can do? Maybe you can also excuse the Japanese for attacking Pearl Harbor and the Germans for invading Europe. They all had their historical reasons for doing so, i'm sure.

[+] -6 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

Is that the best you can do? Maybe you can also excuse the Japanese for attacking Pearl Harbor and the Germans for invading Europe. They all had their historical reasons for doing so, i'm sure.

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

ever since islam was invented in the 7th century.

[+] -5 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Obama was/IS a Muslim,I have a problem with someone that is elected to POTUS that lies about his religion,what is so fucking hard to understand about that.

You Leftists "generalize the actions of a few radical" Christians that blow up abortion clinics and extrapolate the blame to all people of that faith,that IS what you Leftist's do all the time.

So don't come back to me with this bullshit about hating/blaming ALL Muslims,cause nobody has,.....that is you projecting your propaganda to stifle debate by shouting "racist".

If Obama ran for POTUS as a Socialist,Black Liberation Muslim in 2008 I doubt he would have been elected. You know that and I know that.

And you claim not to be Pro Obama,shit,......you're his biggest defender.

[-] -1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

But Nixon, Raygun and both Shrubs were traitorous RepubliCons, does not this worry your god fearing soul?

[-] 0 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

The fact that you're a Leftist wanker that makes up fictitious crap and goes around injecting your useless drivel doesn't bother your godless rear-ended hole?

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Consider an overhaul to your worldview where you center it on love, not fear.

[-] 2 points by JPB950 (2254) 2 years ago

My personal favorite is to center my life on truth, whenever I can find it. Love, hate, fear, all the extreme emotions lead too many errors. I don't mind someone disliking Obama or anyone else for what he does, not for what he is.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

I agree with you, but I will definitely take love over fear any day. They are the two many driving forces behind the way people view and interpret the truth.

[-] 1 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

islam is fear based. love is never mentioned.

[-] -3 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Please spare me the retro-60's peacenik bullshit will ya?

You don't know me well enough to make an educated statement concerning my "worldview",so this would a prejudiced statement on your part.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

You make your worldview quite evident here. I didn't grow up in the 60's so don't know what you're talking about. You live with too much fear, you really do.

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

this twit ( beautifulworld) says he/she/it didnt grow up in the 60's but he was probably taught by the left wing jerks that did.

[+] -4 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

LMAO,so true. Not much going in that propagandized grey matter of he/she/it. Not much experience or common knowledge/sense,just propaganda.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Propaganda.

[+] -7 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

No, TRUTH !!!!! Truth that doesn't fit the liberal/dem/progressive agenda of lies about islam.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

You know what? I could post some Christian propaganda. There are a lot of Christian groups that do weird shit. But, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't lower myself, because I know full well you can find weird shit among all large groups of people. So f off.

[-] 6 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

But the Christian groups that do bad things get the free pass, 'they aren't true Christians'. The problem is fundamentalism no matter which of the big 3 religions they are.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Exactly. Understanding this requires an open mind, however, a big challenge for some people.

[-] -1 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

your moral equivalency of Islam and other religions needs some work. I don't see any Buddhist, Hindu or Christian terrorist killing innocents in the name of their religion. Do you? Please name some of these incidents if you can.

[-] 0 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

It's the evangelical religions that kill in the name of God. Buddhism is not evangelical.

Christians in Africa have been killing children on a large scale because of the Old Testament sentiment of 'not suffering a witch to live'.

"The idea of witchcraft is hardly new, but it has taken on new life recently partly because of a rapid growth in evangelical Christianity. Campaigners against the practice say around 15,000 children have been accused in two of Nigeria's 36 states over the past decade and around 1,000 have been killed. In the past month alone, three Nigerian children accused of witchcraft were killed and another three were set on fire."

Once they are accused most have been maimed or scarred during 'exorcisms' to remove the demons they possess. Their families then force them from their homes to live in the streets, unless they are lucky enough to find an orphanage.

"The Mount Zion Lighthouse - also named by three other families as the accuser of their children - is part of the powerful Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria. Its president, Ayo Oritsejafor, said the Fellowship was the fastest-growing religious group in Nigeria, with more than 30 million members.

"We have grown so much in the past few years we cannot keep an eye on everybody," he explained.

Sam Itauma of the Children's Rights and Rehabilitation Network said it is the most vulnerable children - the orphaned, sick, disabled or poor - who are most often denounced. In Nwanaokwo's case, his poor father and dead mother made him an easy target."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/05/children-accused-of-witchcraft-tortured-killed//print/

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

It's a bit difficult having a discussion at the cutoff point in the thread. Saying that Christians in Africa kill children is similar to saying Occupiers in the U.S. shit on cars.

It's a matter of generalizing the actions of a few to represent the many. Dicto simpliciter (spoken simply, i.e., sweeping generalization

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Yes some OWS shit on cars, yes some US soldiers kill kids in Afghanistan, yes some Muslims act as terrorists, and yes some Christians kill children.

All of the above are correct. The main sweeping generalization being countered is that all of the followers of Islam wish violence upon us as put forth by 'salta' and his constant posting of this line of thought:


[-] -2 points by salta (-104) 19 hours ago are you aware that arab muslims , in the sudan own black christian slaves? islam is filth, always was , always will be. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


Along with those who claim Christianity has a moral superiority over Islam.

[-] 1 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Saying christians in Africa kill children is like saying Americans in Afghanistan kill children. Both statements are true, but they do not represent an honest overall view of what each group is doing.

I recently posted a photo of a teenager who was murdered by U.S. soldiers on the forum. Was this an accurate portrayal of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan. Not at all. My hatred of war in general was the motivation more than the injustice of the crime committed by a small group of soldiers.

Even though the motivation behind our reasoning is not allowed to be argued in a debate, it is there none the less.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

You also are using the 'No True Scotsman' logical fail in your argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

So you believe as bears101 and salta that Islam is inherently evil?.... because thats what I was responding to with my post on Christians in Africa.

I don't hate religion. I do hate when one uses religion for spreading hatred and one claiming superiority over anothers religious beliefs as these two were doing. Read more upstream.

[-] 0 points by jrhirsch (4714) from Sun City, CA 2 years ago

Religions kill people? Are you sure you don't mean I hate religion, therefore I will show it's worst facet as an example of the whole, instead of an honest view of all it's facets? Is George Bush's war in Iraq an example of what Democracy is about? Some people think that and see all Democracies as evil.

There are killers in every group. It does not matter whether they are defined by religion, political ideology, national origin, race, or skin color. All that is necessary is a person who regardless of which group he belongs, would be a killer in any circumstance.

These key people convince others within the group that they too must kill in the name of God, for their race, or for their country. They are like high priests, able to mesmerize and seduce close followers, distant neighbors, and finally entire nations into killing, all in the name of some noble cause that promises life and prosperity but only brings death and destruction.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

You are using the 'No True Scotsman' logical fail in your argument. Your reasoning is flawed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

I don't hate religion. Nor have I stated that anywhere in my posts. I have stated that I think fundamentalists within different sects are nuts.

[-] -1 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

what garbage. Sounds like their tribal beliefs. But look at the crazy Nigerian muslims recently bombing Christian Churches. Or do you think that since muslims are oppressed we can't point out their violence.

[-] -1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

I think all evangelical religious fundamentalists are nuts, take your pick - Christians, Muslims or Jews... anywhere in the world...

including the US.... I wonder if its Sarah's tribal belief?

Sarah Palin in witchcraft prayer on video clip A video showing Sarah Palin, Senator John McCain's vice-presidential running mate, taking part in a church prayer against witchcraft

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/sarah-palin/3077964/Sarah-Palin-in-witchcraft-prayer-on-video-clip.html

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This is exactly why I am against all religions.

Religion is man made and used by man to control the people by telling them what is right or wrong in their interpretation of Gods words for their own benefit - see pharacies.

This can also be applied to politics. Party politics.

This can also be applied to Media.

The search for truth is every individuals responsibility.

That is another reason I try to get people to look at issues and not authors.

The truth is in the details. Not in the presenter.


[-] 1 points by geo (1489) from Concord, NC 2 minutes ago

I'm using a broader definition of evangelical as defined by Meriam-Webster.

In the 4 b definition;

'of adhering to or marked by fundamentalism'

and the 5th definition;

'Marked by militant or crusading zeal'

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evangelicalism

And fundamentalism:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


[-] 1 points by geo (1489) from Concord, NC 2 minutes ago

I'm using a broader definition of evangelical as defined by Meriam-Webster.

In the 4 b definition;

'of adhering to or marked by fundamentalism'

and the 5th definition;

'Marked by militant or crusading zeal'

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evangelicalism

And fundamentalism:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I don't know if you have the right terminology - perhaps experience with a bad evangelical group - But what I think you are looking for is actually religious fanatic - and they come from all stripes of religion.

Myself? I don't believe in religion. Religion is man made and used by man to control the people by telling them what is right or wrong in their interpretation of Gods words - see pharacies.

[-] 0 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

I'm using a broader definition of evangelical as defined by Meriam-Webster.

In the 4 b definition;

'of adhering to or marked by fundamentalism'

and the 5th definition;

'Marked by militant or crusading zeal'

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evangelicalism

And fundamentalism:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

the civil war ended in 1865. slavery was outlawed in 1863. what is going on in the sudan is happening now. any so called black leaders speaking out against it? NO.

[-] -3 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

are you aware that arab muslims , in the sudan own black christian slaves? islam is filth, always was , always will be. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

You really want to know what filth is? Take a good look in the mirror. It's fear mongers like you who spread hate and derision.

What exactly do you expect to gain from this? Whats the upside here? Think you're spreading enlightenment, making the world better in any way? No, you spread hate and ignorance.

What positive thing have you done lately to make the world a better place?

Want to do something real positive? Go climb back under that rock you came out from. You and your kind are not wanted here. Like I said before FUCK OFF. When you start behaving like a man of God, maybe we can have a discussion..... but when all you spout is hate and vile, there can be no discussion with you. You are exactly like those you claim you are better than.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Were you aware that Christians owned slaves?

Yep - right here in the good-ol USofA. The slavery didn't really end after the Civil war either. Nope kept right on going under a different program.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

democracy is often drummed up as a reason to attack other nation that lack democracy

[-] -3 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

islam is not a religion, calling itself one does not make it so. islam is a political system.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Oh yeah right.... sure...you know because you talk to god, or is it YHVH, or Yaweh, or Jesus Christ,or Elohim.... but nope God isn't Allah, even though Moses and Abraham are accepted prophets of Islam.....and is Jesus Christ Jehovah? And how does the Holy Spirit fit in with Judaism which doesn't accept Jesus or is it Yashua?

Is the Bible really and truly Gods Word? If you believe it is then you should all be stoning to death non-virgins, adulterers, gays and lesbians, anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD (whatever one he chooses to use that day), and rape victims.... Leviticus 20 and Deuteronomy 18 & 20. Nobody has redacted these laws, not even Jesus.

You know what? I really don't want to know... All of YOU can keep your little fairy tales amongst yourselves. Stop trying to preach and convert other people through your evangelistic mandates. All of the fundamentalists of these desert day dreams have been the bane of mankind for 6,000 years now. Stop with the hate...... all of you.

[-] 0 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

" Leviticus 20 and Deuteronomy 18 & 20. Nobody has redacted these laws, not even Jesus." Christians believe that Jesus established a new covenant. http://www.gci.org/law/otl10

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

To bad they all don't agree on the rules of that new covenant. With Christianity, anybody can become a minister and start his own church, with its own biblical interpretations, having the congregation meet at the local abandoned storefront. There is no standardization of the interpretations and meanings of the teachings of Jesus.

I can't even list the number of Christian variants there has been through history.

[-] -1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Most edited (re-written) work of literary fables and tales in history.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Pot calling the kettle black again.

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

islam covers is back by claiming that moses and jesus and abraham were muslim prophets. islam was invented in the 7th century, judaism has been around for over 5500 years, christianity , for nearly 2000 years. if you're a muslim and want to or try to leave islam you're an apostate and under a death threat. gays in saudia arabia are executed. i am not preaching nor am i trying to convert anyone to anything. go to http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ read and learn.

[-] 0 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Did you forget Leviticus and Deuteronomy and Exodus? Read and understand your own twisted, evil, hateful, murderous thoughts. Its the WORD of YHVH.

None of you fundamentalists are any better than the other. Christians are murdering and torturing children condemned as witches in Africa today. Fundamentalist Muslims and Christians are killing each other, Jews and Christians are killing Muslims.... its been going round and round and round for millenia.

YOU in PARTICULAR are not helping by spreading more hate and coloring with a broad brush millions of people who are NOT fundamentalists.

FUCK OFF. Keep your desert fairy tales about creation to yourself.

[-] -2 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Get more stupid, I know you can do it!

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I heard that three way circuits produced a higher volume calculation of output by the math

[-] -1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Yeah I'd have to lose 60 IQ points to be at the genius level that you are at.

[-] -2 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

ouch...

[-] -2 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

i have never spoken with anyone stupid as you are, that says a lot considering the host of nitwits on ows.

[-] -3 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

Thanx!

[-] -3 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Also sad.

[-] -3 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

Did you actually go to the site and read al the stories and updates? so you consider murder to be " weird"? muslims are the only ones STILL, as we speak, murdering innocents in the name of their so called religion. You cannot post anything about christianity or buddhism or judaism murdering their own people because it doesnt exist. muslims murder more of their own than any non muslims ever has. they you're either stupid or puposely ignorant. you qualify for the former.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

Maybe you should read Leviticus from the Bible before you make blanket statements.

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ read about whats going on in the world, now, today. actual news about the ongoing daily depravity of islam. this has nothing to do with the bible.

[-] 5 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 2 years ago

You are all brothers of the 'book', Judaism, Christianity, and Islam... you worship the same deity. This is the pot calling the kettle black.

Ignorance is the darkness of our world. I am sorry that the educational system has failed you so completely.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the US claims to bring democracy to countries we we invade them

democracy like religion gets used as an excuse for invasions

[-] -1 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

jews and christians do NOT worship allah.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the civil war?

they all thought it was wrong to sacrifice their child to god

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

keep repeating the lies of islam . you think that christans and jews worship allah? what a dummy.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

You qualify for both. And, yep, Christians do kill people, murder them, sexually abuse them. It's all there. Are you looking for a new Crusades? Seems like it. Hate mongering and fear mongering will only bring ugliness. Why don't you study some history and get to the root of all this. Seems to me you base your opinions on pretty superficial stuff.

[-] -1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

This is about RepubliCon sabotage and treason, how?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skiWxrzXeJc

[-] -3 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

You didnt bother to read anything on the site. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ islam is hate based, it always has been since it was invented in the 7th century. READ THE SITE, all of it.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Quite right. That's a specious, tendentious website that's not getting any viewing time from me.

[-] -1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the civil was in 1861

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

YOU are a coward.it's not often i see someone so proud of being stupid. ignorant people can learn but stupid is forever. read the site and learn about the depravity of islam. the kill their own, often. they are threat to the civilized world.

[-] 4 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Why dont you simply go to a few mosques and see how they act, and ask them about this stuff.

Better than going off some dude's site....

[-] -3 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

do you know what taqiyya is? look it up.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

It's a mistake to get your history off the internet. If you ever want a list of books to read let me know.

[+] -6 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

you're still a stupid coward.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

Look fella, I studied Islam in grad school so watch out who you call stupid. I will not be reading that site. I read books you loser, and lots of them.

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

how pathetic you are, not only are you a coward, ( how tough is it to read a website) you're STUPID and proud of it.what ever you "studied" in "grad" school wasnt islam.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the civil war

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (22090) 2 years ago

We don't need any more wars. We don't need any more hatred. Nothing good comes out of it.

[+] -4 points by bears101 (-37) 2 years ago

don't you know that Islam is the religion of peace and that Beautifulworld is an academic so she must be correct? Please ignore all of the acts of terror that Muslims have committed over the last thirty years, and focus and getting ready for hi jabs, berka's, bearded men with crazy eyes, and separate men/women swimming pools. And yes of course, a victimized minority (American muslims) with special protections.

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

beautiful world is a coward. she fears learning the truth about islam. Have you gone to the site? http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

This "is" all about the world wide protest. It is about all of the abuses being visited upon all societies.

So speak-up and contribute don't tear down what you personally don't understand. Or can not see the reason for.

The Ill's of the world are many.

Unite in making positive change.


[-] 1 points by salta (-85) 5 minutes ago

the civil war ended in 1865. slavery was outlawed in 1863. what is going on in the sudan is happening now. any so called black leaders speaking out against it? NO. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

you can say "obama was born kenya is NOT racist" and "Obama is a " Islamic ego maniac" is NOT "racist". He is a known Islamic sympathizer (pseudo-Christian) and Barry is a narcissistic,ego maniac..

and just maybe your not racist but at the very least your misinformed and ignorant.

I'm not an obama supporter my issues with him stem from his job performance or lack there of. So if you confine your discourse to his policies rather then his place of birth you'll have a much better chance of convincing people your not a racists.

[-] -3 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

Actually my comment that sparked the outrage of beautifulworld was mainly about Oblamers policies and ideology. beautifulworld just focused on two lines and began the "I'm a racist" tirade.

This is what these Leftists do,this is about deflection from real content which sets the other side up to do nothing but play defense from "racist" labeling.....and as you can see it worked,you commented on me trying to play defense against "racist" labeling. This is the Lefts way of deflecting conversations about substance.

[-] 2 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

then ignore racists labelling and talk substance

[-] -2 points by shadzworth (-394) 2 years ago

I'll start limiting my free speech,when you start limiting yours.

[+] -5 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

calling people who disagree with the obama administration " racist" is a transparent means of trying to shut up or shame people. it doesnt work. remember that liberals are devotees of free speech and tolerance as long as you agree with them. the truth will out.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

psyops - misinformation - blame the other guy for our mistakes.

It is the only leg the corrupt have left to stand on - lies and misdirection.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Here's a bit more on all that.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/25/9-revelations-from-robert-draper-s-do-not-ask-what-good-we-do.html

Didn't someone ask a while ago what good the GOP has done lately?

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

I sure did. Got me a shit load of down votes. This RepubliCon sabotage article posting was originally mine, and down-voted me, too.

Here's something for the both are the same, were just here to protest peeps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skiWxrzXeJc

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Looks like a good read. Even for those who consider themselves as republicans. They can look at this content weigh it against reality and ask just WTF their elected officials are doing.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Considering the hard "right" turn this forum has taken recently, I have my doubts that they will.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

How many of those are actual republican supporters?

How much of the right wing attacks are from actual right wingers?

I still contend that the main body of attackers are corporate shills and that they only care about politics as a tool. That they have no allegiance.

In the instance of this forum - they then use the opposite of your presented standings to attack you and sow division and fights.

Corpo-rat's are only concerned with disrupting the formation of unity in common cause to all - which would generally leave "them" holding the short end of the stick in all things..

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I believe they are by and large libe(R)tarians.

They can and will twist and subjugate "non-partisanship" even more easily.

Just look at how fast threads on ALEC and the Kochs drop out of site.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Organized corporate entities or owned corporate interests. Yeah I can see why the corporatist's would want them out of public view.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I also believe, I've more than adequately demonstrated the ties between corporate libe(R)tarianism and the GOP.

There is a definite relationship.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yes to members of government - many of whom are jumping up and down waving their hands and shouting I am corrupt. Coincidentally ( or not ) a great number of them proclaim themselves to be republican but to be fair there are also a small number of what are at times referred to as blue dog democrats that also are on board with ALEC/Corporations/Koch.

Get rid of em all - start with the most visible - those shouting out their false allegiance - and continuing on to the rest. But get rid of them all is what must be done.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I was attacked about the hardest when I suggested that all members of ALEC be removed from office.

Not long afterward is when the last bot attack began.

I'm just sayin'.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Whose interests are you attacking when you get attacked? Corpo-rat and their bought and paid for stooges. I was also heavily attacked. So needless to say we were both making sense that the powers that be do not care for.

Just sayin. {:-])

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

The corporate libe(R)tarians of course.

They also took exception when I began referring to them as neo-libe(R)tarians.

It's my belief that it's these neo-libe(R)tarians that are affecting the World at at large.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Each of us has our own talents experience and perspectives. My background has brought me to where I am today as yours have brought you to this time and place. Perhaps you see more than I or more clearly than I or perhaps just a little different than I.

The main thing is that we share our thoughts and observations and unite in moving forward together for a healthy and prosperous world for all.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Must have been an independent or a democrat that asked - any republican I think would wince at that question or be seriously out of the loop to forward such a question.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Be thankful, if they only hate you a little.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/06/06/top-ten/

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I feel that I must protest as I am non-partisan or rather people-partisan.

This article is very partisan - it should really only point to the individuals in office, and to be fair the democrats who also fall into the anti-people category.

Other than that - good article. {:-])

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

Then help me out.

How in the World do you non-patisanize this?

http://eclectablog.com/

There's a lot to read here, It's the GOPs stealth version of Wisconsin.

Little of it gets any press at all.

Sometimes, reality is partisan, whether you want it to be or not.

[-] 1 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

At some point you have to conclude, and move on, that whether deliberate or oblivious, there are people who sabotage, undermine, harm, this movement's capability to effect change on the issues it addresses. The 1% class war on the 99% is Totally Partisan, Smash Mouth, Bribed and Swindled Politics. There are fools here that believe ignoring Voting, Elections, democracy and Politics will somehow result in the Victory in this war. It's infuriating, it's idiotic, it's making the righties laugh their asses off, but it is still sabotage.

Again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=skiWxrzXeJc

Wake up and smell the treason!

[+] -5 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Issues can be made partisan ( made to look partisan ) while the actual promoter/author/originator of an issue or conflict is a non-partisan corpo-rat entity or entities. Psyops - manipulation - misinformation - misdirection. Divide and conquer.

Partisan politics as a tool.

Put people with beliefs of party to fight each other instead of issues.

Yes their are people who believe in their party and do not see or weigh issues.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

With me?

It's not a belief in a party.

It's about the truth of what a particular party is perpetrating.

You should read what's in the link.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

No not with you - I know you look into and weigh issues. But most people are open to partisan manipulation and so a smart attacker/supporter of the greed corruption and crime can use partisan affiliations to attack unity in common cause.

That is all that I am saying.

That is why I try to push unity in support of issues or condemnation of issues - pointing out the common cause interests for all.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

I understand, but I also find that far too limiting.

It's just another corner, they push you into.

[-] 0 points by JS93 (-321) 2 years ago

I called it "astounding naivete."

Sabotage does not require cognizance.

Notice, the Zombies and Trolls don't bother with these impotent, non-active, solution/result-adverse, [safe] "fellow travelers."

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

We all have our insights/perspectives - glad to have you working to support the people.

[-] -1 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

False. Some people don't have insights, nor perspectives. Having insight is not easy, it demands hard work and dedication to research. Some people, I would even say most people, are too lazy for this.

[-] 2 points by shoozTroll (17632) 2 years ago

You have only lies thrashy.

Lies and conspiracy theory.

It's all you are.

You should just admit it and move on.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Everyone believes they have insights - hell even you. That it does not make it so is also true - look at you. But everyone educated or not, smart or not - everyone has their own perspective - even if that perspective is to follow someone Else's lead. Perspective is like a sphincter everyone has one.

I used sphincter as an example as it reminds me of you - spewing shit.

[-] -1 points by bigbadbluebananaboy (-124) 2 years ago

You must be an old lonely sad man to get so easily angered on a forum and start talking like a 5 year old in the playground. When's the last time you left your house and enjoyed the company of a friend? For a walk, or a coffee, or a protest?

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 2 years ago

'Trashy-Worm-Tongue' = Uber-Scum-Bot, Q.E.D. !!! cave canem ...

[+] -5 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

blame the other guys for your mistakes? thats obama's forte. the obama regime is a criminal enterprise.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Do I smell agenda wafting off of you ankle biter?

[-] -3 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

obama blames everyone, everything, he never takes personal responsibility ,...............for anything.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Uh-huh. Anyone else known for that or just Obammer? Also has anyone fouled Obammers try at making a better life for Americans? You know - universal health care - or letting the tax breaks on the wealthy expire but keep them in place for the needy? Anything like that? Or are you just an obsessive Obammer hater?

[+] -5 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

obama care is crap and as you will see toward the end of june, unconstitutional. obama 's ideology is anti american.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (23964) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Kind of like Mittens huh?

I mean it was Mittens Massachusetts plan that was used as an exemplar wasn't it?

[+] -4 points by salta (-1104) 2 years ago

Thats what the msm told and you learnd the mantra well. What you learned was a lie. It was written by Robert Creamer ( while in jail) husband of Dem rep Jan Schakowsky. Creamer is a lobbyist for the george soros funded open society institute.