Forum Post: The people against OWS
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 8, 2011, 11:18 p.m. EST by Teamster
(102)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I just want to ask you all why do you care? Why do you spend hours on here bashing it? Are you millionaires? Do people getting their homes back to them and working it out with the banks affect you? Does taxing the millionaires affect you? Does people getting help with their student loans affect you? Does more people getting better jobs affect you? Does taking money out of politics affect you? If you the OWS people are not asking to have your taxes raised how does it affect you in any way? Why do you feel like you have to be them mouth piece for these rich people? Do you think they need you? If you were in their way of getting a dollar they would shit on you to. Stop thinking you are in their club or they care about you.
Well Teamster you got your answer...but the following comments. Those that don't do complain. Since they are not standing up for our country they think they have a right to critique those that do. Great post. Very good point!
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Some people find comfort in standing for nothing. Hiding behind a computer screen, and just picking apart everything. It makes their meager lives seem to have meaning and purpose. I usually ignore them and stop reading their pathetic posts 7 words into it.
I didn't think it would be this easy to stump the trolls. I guess they really don't stand for anything. I was hoping one could answer me cause I like to see the points from both sides.
The truth, along with proper backup, is what they are afraid of.
If "everyone" is in the 99%. And the others are 1% then that equals 100%. Since a troll is not part of the 99% or 1% how does your math equal more than 100%?
All replies made by DunikDonut2 are robotic. There's a machine trolling us. check it out.
I'm not Siri like you are.
Do you even know what 99% means? It doesn't mean you support the movement.
Please explain why you hide behind your computer screen?
I guess I dont know. All I read on posts here is "WE ARE the 99%" One MUST assume if 1% are the rich then ALL OF US are believers in 99%. Maybe the movement should be, "We are the 20% but invite you to join if you think America should be more lazy." Now THAT would be understandable.
I'm not sure if people are really against OWS, or if it is because there is not alot of clarity, and an awful lot of anger. From my perspective, what I see here is alot of blame and finger pointing. And not just at the right places or people. What I am seeing is, if you don't agree with everything posted here, you get labeled a troll, or a hater, or you get blocked. The bashing is done on both sides . What I do see and hear is that most Americans want many of the same things that OWS stands for. But I think alot of it has to do with presentation. Calling someone a troll for not agreeing is not going to help any cause or movement. It will not help bring more folks into this to help solve the issues, when they feel thier voice isn't valid, or when everything they say is challenged. Maybe a little more listening, a little more patience, a little more kindness in explaining the issues. OWS does indeed need more support from average folks, so maybe try not pushing them away. You never know what we can learn from each other.
The opposition game, is wit versus wisdom, to destroy this forum, by making it uninteresting to the newcomers, and piling trash over radical ideas. Trust them they say.
I think at this point it is uninteresting from both sides. It is damn near impossible to follow any issue. There are no follow ups to any action, just a bunch of rants and raves and us vs them issues. No cohesiveness at all, from anyone. I truly had hoped this might be a movement to make some change in this country.
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it's all because repelicans are nitwits . . .
and speaking of repelicans . . .
Action Alert: Stop the End Run On The KeyStone XL PipeLine
Stockholm Syndrome
very psychological. total stockholm syndrome; identification with the aggressor. Too bad there are not enough teamster type jobs for enough people to actually disagree with occupy-- like there was in the 60's' they all have been shipped overseas and our economy gutted. Why do you think the people protest...no means no money all so some billionaires can get bailed out with our taxes... please...
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2011/12/2011121074125944352.html
"The banks have said, leave us deregulated, we know how to run things, don't put government in to meddle. Then with that freedom of maneuver they took huge gambles, and even made illegal actions, and then broke the world system. As soon as that happened then they rushed out to say 'bail us out, bail us out, if you don't bail us out, we're too big to fail, you have to save us'. As soon as that happened, they said 'oh, don't regulate us, we know what to do'. And they almost went back to their old story, and the public is standing there, amazed, because we just bailed you out how can you be paying yourself billions of dollars of bonuses again? And the bankers say, 'well we deserve it, what's your problem'? And the problem that the Occupy Wall Street and other protesters have is: you don't deserve it, you nearly broke the system, you gamed the economy, you're paying mega fines, yet you're still in the White House you're going to the state dinners, you're paying yourself huge bonuses, what kind of system is this?
When I talk about this in the United States, I'm often attacked, 'oh, you don't believe in the free market economy', I say, how much free market can there be? You say deregulate, the moment the banks get in trouble, you say bail them out, the moment you bail them out, you say go back to deregulation. That's not a free market, that's a game, and we have to get out of the game. We have to get back to grown-up behaviour."
Jeffrey Sachs, Columbia University
It is because we are a threat to the status quo (set up by the greedy 1% and their puppets in Congress).
After all, how dare we speak our mind and protest all the corruption and greed around us. How dare we NOT act like good little sheep drinking the coolade and just quietly go with the flow. How dare we not be oblivious to what the 1% and their puppets do behind close doors. How dare we be vigilant and fully aware of what is going on in Wall Street and in the halls of Congress. How dare we even think we have the right to demand equality by pointing out the huge disparity between the 1% and the us--the 99%. How dare we even think that the American Dream is not attainable anymore or completely dead. How dare we tell our stories about how no matter how hard we try to get ahead--we can't because the system is deliberately stacked against us (completely unfair). How dare we say that America is not the greatest nation any longer because it strayed from the very values and principles that made America great in the first place.
How dare we--we speak the truth and take a stand for what is right. How dare we even think we can make a difference. How dare we be a threat and challenge the status quo. Yes, our antagonist/opponents are angry at us and don't want us to be successful. They want our voices silenced--this is why they have invaded this site and posted many hateful/ anti-OWS posts.
Let them--but please know this, as the old saying goes: "When everyone is shooting at you--that means you are done something right." So carry on OWS. Consider all these angry/hate posts a sign--THAT YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING RIGHT. Peace!
This is why we are here this is why you are needed.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/
Share, circulate, educate, inspire.
"If you were in their way of getting a dollar they would shit on you to. Stop thinking you are in their club or they care about you."
Amen.
Well said my friend. What they try to help will only screw them and theirs over in time. They need to see its not only their futures but they're families futures as well.
that's why i care: http://blip.tv/lessig/republic-lost-my-favorite-version-5697728
i agree - i do not understand what some of these people are doing here. if they have money you would think they have something better to do - i think many of them do not have money and are just very misguided. i wonder if some of this is paid disruption?
MIllionaires pay them to be here. There's, literally, an army out to sway public opinion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
i have often wondered if they are being paid - thanks
I'm a very proud, very square Army Special Operations veteran who stands for the Constitution that I swore an oath to. To serve and protect, from enemies both foreign AND DOMESTIC!!! The enemies to it will pay. Period. It will happen, history illustrates that fact. I'm 100% in favor of OWS and always will be. Many more of us are. Many, many more. Also, we wear uniforms issued us by the government we "serve".
People for OWS
I just want to ask you all why do you care? Why do you spend hours in here bashing people who have jobs and worked hard to get where they are now? Are you poor?.... wait you are becuase you refuse to apply the same amount of effort seeking employment as you do crapping in Zucotti Park and holding signs that say "Unfair".
hahaha that line you put about raising taxes almost me choke, I was laughing so hard. When you dont pay taxes raising taxes probably is not a big concern. For people like me who paid over 40k in taxes last year it starts to really suck. I am in their club. The club is the corporation, company or small business, and I am not in their way of earning a dollar. I help them earn more dollars and in return they pay me a chunk of the earnings.
The Revolution has a new theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L-GOHa5-YQ
http://occupywallst.org/forum/in-the-name-of-allah/
The Revolution starts here!
They are the phony Tea party group that were paid by Koch to discredit anyone who would fight against greed.
The best practice for Occupiers, I recommend, should be to only post ideas here that directly relate to the core, Humane Values of Occupy, whether pointing up some news, some Direct Action, or whatever experience or suggestions that illuminate these Humane Values. We would save alot of energy thereby, not feed the Beast in our midst by engaging their distraction and ignorance, and spend more time cultivating ideas among ourselves that are helpful and edifying to our Cause. Stop the madness by not feeding the Beast.
i agree with op
The Simple Answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
I do not come here to bash OWS and they do have some very good points and or causes. I do not understand though why they are not going after the root of the problem, which is the Gov. It is not just the US that is going down hill, virtually every Country in the World is crumbling. As I stated before I do agree with some points about the OWS but the violent side of it, really turns me off. I am not sure if it is OWS as a whole creating the violence or if it is the very young OWS members doing it.
You don't have to be a millionaire to understand the problem is not with "earners" it's with spenders....
The Federal government spends about 3.6 trillion, and collects about 2.1 trillion, leaving a deficit of 1.5-ish trillion, 60% of which is social welfare "entitlement" spending..the so-called "safety net"
OWS's solution...tax millionaires..tax "the rich", tax corporations...
But....here's the problem...it isn't enough and you guy's want more programs, and more freebies...
As it stands now, just to break even on a single budget year, it would take DOUBLING taxation (including SS payroll taxes) on everyone earning more than $45,000.00 per year....not eliminating the Bush cuts..DOUBLE the current rates...or, increasing the current work force by 73% maintaining current income share concentration and taxation....
Can you afford "double"? Then, next year the spending goes up 8-10% automatically, so the taxes would need to be more than doubled next year to break even.....and, what sort of effect do you suppose those taxation levels would have on the economy?
I know what you're thinking...wealth tax...but, remember...most wealth is not liquid, it is contained in the businesses, property and homes of Americans, and if the government were to start confiscating it, it's "value" would drop.
The solution is not more FREE stuff. or more direct and indirect laziness and demands to be given stuff, under the auspice of "rights"
THAT'S why "I" am against OWS.....
you clearly do not understand the problem or the possible solutions. too much fox? so - come clean - are you being paid?
I don't understand the problem? national default and bankruptcy are the problem....and not far away if will follow the OWS "plan"
can't default when you own the printing press for the money - if the debt is in your own currency you cannot go bankrupt - that is the problem for greece - if they hadn't gone with the euro they would just devalue their currency and the debt goes away - like germany after ww1. i know if is not widely thought of in this way but doesn't change the facts - there are very good things written on this subject if you want to figure it out - most people don't they want to believe what the want to believe
hahaha...yeah, it's just that easy......except, you cannot trade in the world market with a devalued currency....and we aren't Greece.....Greece isn't the world market standard, and soon..we may not be either....
We KNOW what happened in Germany after WW1, don't we....is that what you're after at OWS...are you looking to be the next "German worker's party" ....they had good intentions at first too, till a charismatic and diabolical leader, with no example of practical success in his life, rose from within it's ranks...perhaps OWS can come up with it's own "25 points"......I am amazed that you fools cannot see the repetition of history here...and you really think you are something new? Maybe you should take some time to actually learn about the rise of Nazi Germany....given the comments on this page...most of you have NO idea..
I know, all you lefties think the value of the currency is arbitrary and the dollar means nothing....that is why you are so fond of just handing them out to people haphazardly...but, the dollar's value is determined by the countries production level and world's perspective of that...
When you devalue the currency you also destabilize the system, destroy accumulated wealth (Which you probably think is great...but it doesn't destroy real property, or intellectual property, so...once again, the "rich" producers are fine...everyone else..including retirees living off savings...loses) and make it impossible to borrow at reasonable rates, in the future.
Where do you get this nonsense...it sounds like you have a bit of academic knowledge....and ZERO ability to think critically....
You obviously cannot educe the reality from the philosophy.....a common problem with modern liberals and students in general...knowing a bunch of disparate dissociated philosophies and principles isn't much good in the practical world....maybe in a discussion among a bunch of pompous haughty liberals, or with people who don't know any better you might look "scholarly"....but it's a thin facade to anyone with ANY practical knowledge or experience.
That's the problem with you libs...you think your delusional academic theories are equal to those which have been wrought, hardened and tempered in the real world...
retard - do you know what a pizza cost in 1935? whayt is with you - a Ron Lawl austrian school economic fool - i just blew up your point about default - now respond to it instead of ranting - can you?
you blew up my point about default? Please....your point is fallacious, and borne only of impractical speculation.....when the debtors refuse to accept the debt payment in US dollars due to the poor management of it....and demand, instead....gold, or other such hard assets, what then?..and of course, you say nothing about the long tern ramifications of inflating away debt....up to, and including, military or political action.
And..............as for the Austrian School, or any other "school" THAT is the realm of the academic idiot savant NOT practical economic philosophy...or those who practice it.......there is no pure "school" or philosophy that attends to all the elements of the reality of macro/micro economic systems..... although, perhaps the Chicago School" comes closest in practical incidents in real economic systems....
let me see how this works - china demands that we pay in gold - right - or they will nuke us - maybe the saudis will demand gold - oh no, since we are their muscle i doubt it - you don't know the first rule - when you owe the bank $100 they own you - when you owe them $100,000,000 - you ow them - read hudson's book about how the modern world works then get back to me - you cannot see what is in front of your face - you are a retard - submit to the obvious
eh' opinions vary...but you are obviously convinced the operation of the world can be summed up in some book, or single academic philosophy....you are worse than retarded, you think you know, so the reality escapes you......
There are none so ignorant as those who know....
Military action doesn't have to be "nuking" us...they could attack the 7th fleet, or take over Taiwan...your hyperbolic amplification of the possibilities is another clear demonstration of your lack of critical thought...
critical thought - you - they could attack our 7th fleet - with what - and then what - peking reduced to cinders - good idea slamer. or take taiwan omg how could we survive that - for sure we would pay them in gold after that. do you know the history of china - there are good books on the subject but no point right - get a grip son - your point is childish and shows a lack of basic understanding of the world and money. try again on another post - maybe i won't see your nonsense because if i do i will respond and others will see how stupid you are!
hahaha......yeah, if you say so :-/
keep living behind those academic constructs...the real world is scary
and how would you know? oh yes - you are a small boy frightened of the big bad lefties - you and roy cohn - look him up since i am sure you don't know who he is!
small boy...hahaha...again you make stupid assumptions...
I don't know whether you are small or large, young or old.....
But, I do know you're a fool, as demonstrated by your ridiculous postings...maybe you should try some reality and practical application, but...again, you morons who support OWS find that too difficult and prefer to be "kept" by others....while hating them for their support, and criticizing that it isn't enough....you have earned nothing you demand....
You are infantile in your philosophy and shiftless in your efforts....you will live, and die, always remaining horrible failures...unless you change your attitude and approach..
Now, respond with more of your nonsensical gibberish, so you can further define yourself as a blathering idiot...
you're right! i realized after i put that last one up i was wrong - you are a fat little boy - never been good at anything - right? fantasized about being good in sports but were afraid of the ball so now you hire yourself out to some rich man. did you find out about roy cohn yet?
hahaha...you make me laugh, like an idiot talking to himself on a park bench..
I'm not going to fall for your ad hominem, nor am I going to give the practice credibility by addressing your inaccurate points...
As far as the McCarthy era, and the players...I know it well, what's your point? Or do you, typically, not have one?
then explain the debt after ww2
Cuz they are losers with nothing bette to do!!!!!!!!
At times 70% of this sites traffic is falsely generated in some fashion. The dilution changes your perceptions enough to compell you to ask your questions.
Web of deceit our tax dollars paid for.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/09/1024519/-Threats-from-the-Invisible-Industry?showAll=yes&via=blog_481394 http://politics.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/ http://boingboing.net/2011/02/18/hbgarys-high-volume.html http://revolutionmessaging.com/2011/09/21/how-to-weed-out-astroturf-identifying-fake-public-support/ http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/16173.html http://veracitystew.com/2011/02/25/astroturfing-the-season-of-disinformation-video/ http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2011/04/25/cv-election-truthy-memes-twitter.html
High tech cointelpro backed with MKultra on the ground in social setting and governmental positions.
How about get the 40,000 lobbyists out of D.C. and outsource those jobs overseas (I mean eliminate them).
Private banking, through their investment firms, hedge funds and various financial services, sold hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of debt, making billions and billions in profit, then when that fact became widely recognized and the LIBOR and EURIBOR froze (inter-bank lending --- not a 4% mortgage default rate as the propaganda specialists would have us believe), public monies are used to bail them out repeatedly, then they want global austerity programs to continue to fund their criminality.
First, we require freedom of the press today in America.
Next, immediately nationalize the Federal Reserve, along with the top ten banks in America, and re institute the financial transaction tax (which previously existed from 1914 to 1966).
End labor arbitrage and labor deflation. (The only jobs which should be off shored are those 40,000 lobbyist jobs.)...who spin these numbers to no end...
In a derivative macro environment, liquidity can literally be created out of thin air (FED Reserve). So $18T is easy. That is really what happened yesterday, it was announced that the Euro will not die.
HOWEVER...Now we're pretty much milked out; much of the private equity is out of the market. It's getting too costly to food, clothe, and medicate all of the dependents.The latter requires real resources to be dug up and fashioned into things of REAL value. That's the rub, in the end. You can print all you want, but it doesn't produce any more yield of real necessities at some point. And competing interests produce many of those necessities.
The powers that be (i.e. the .001 percent hedge fund billionaires who own congress/ the US are totally) incompetent...
for closures for everybody else...
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2011/12/2011121074125944352.html
"The banks have said, leave us deregulated, we know how to run things, don't put government in to meddle. Then with that freedom of maneuver they took huge gambles, and even made illegal actions, and then broke the world system. As soon as that happened then they rushed out to say 'bail us out, bail us out, if you don't bail us out, we're too big to fail, you have to save us'. As soon as that happened, they said 'oh, don't regulate us, we know what to do'. And they almost went back to their old story, and the public is standing there, amazed, because we just bailed you out how can you be paying yourself billions of dollars of bonuses again? And the bankers say, 'well we deserve it, what's your problem'? And the problem that the Occupy Wall Street and other protesters have is: you don't deserve it, you nearly broke the system, you gamed the economy, you're paying mega fines, yet you're still in the White House you're going to the state dinners, you're paying yourself huge bonuses, what kind of system is this?
When I talk about this in the United States, I'm often attacked, 'oh, you don't believe in the free market economy', I say, how much free market can there be? You say deregulate, the moment the banks get in trouble, you say bail them out, the moment you bail them out, you say go back to deregulation. That's not a free market, that's a game, and we have to get out of the game. We have to get back to grown-up behaviour."
Jeffrey Sachs, Columbia University ~~~~
OCCUPY occupy everything; take back your homes
No, mainly it's because alot of us just can't figure out what it is OWS stands for. It is fractioned into so many different areas that no one can be sure what to support or who is behind supporting a particular idea or movement within OWS. It has nothing to do with standing up or not standing up for your country as some would like say, it has to do with knowing exactly what the purpose, motivation and direction OWS is taking. You can't argue the fact that OWS is fractured with to wide a range of Ideologies that most of America can't get behind.
The religious people do not want to admit they have been duped by the GOP all these years. They must admit they were wrong (trickle down) in order to get this country back on track.
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away with the lice-infested, flea-bitten commie wannabees1Disinfectour public parkland spaces. Long live the republic1zthus ever to all enemies of the union! All enemies of humankind!
cchapman46....In other words Long live Satan's values of take advantage of the poor eat the weak. hmmmm sounds like i know who you serve.
You have a great life right? you have money a good job a family? why worry about these people who you consider a joke and trash? You think this movement will die shortly why waste you time on here? You have on children to spend time with or spouse to be with? Call your parents and tell them you love them. Anything is better then hating on something you think is a waste of time?
Okay. This is officially the most retarded thread on this site.congratulations.
well if we can all just officially declare shit, then i officially declare you a gay, slightly retarded elf
But you see then that would be you doing or saying something you that DOES affect me. See that you for helping me point out the difference.
well what the hell are you talking to me about this for, teamster?
i hate teamsters, anyway. i guess they are ok individually but you get a bunch of them together all they are is grading on a body
No you are talking to me about this. I poised a question and you felt like I was talking to you. I never said your name once. See I guess I gotta explain alot to you today.
Spot on, sweet cheeks.
I really would just like to know
I just want to ask you all why do you care? I care because while capitalism has it's cons as things stand it's still the most efficient system fro resource allocation
Why do you spend hours on here bashing it? Can not answer as I do not
Are you millionaires? Not yet
Do people getting their homes back to them and working it out with the banks affect you? Working it out means someone has to assume the burden of working it out as in pay for it. Banks own assets are not enough even to cover 10% writedown.
Does taxing the millionaires affect you? Yes slows economy stimulates capital flight
Does people getting help with their student loans affect you? Yes as someone will have to pay for that help
Does more people getting better jobs affect you? taxing rich has a direct effect of reducing number of good jobs availible
Does taking money out of politics affect you? Yes and I'd be all for it but unfortunately it is impossible to do
If you the OWS people are not asking to have your taxes raised how does it affect you in any way? already answered above
Why do you feel like you have to be them mouth piece for these rich people? Because to a great degree the functioning of this whole system is dependent on ability of proper people having ability to allocate resources
Do you think they need you? They is very broad term
If you were in their way of getting a dollar they would shit on you to. Well I am already in their way of getting the dollar as the 1% pays about 40% of all the tax revenue collected, while consuming less or equal amount of public services on individual level as I do.
Stop thinking you are in their club or they care about you. Again they is very broad term
For me, Occupy Wall Street and affiliated movements are about two things. In a vague, ideological sense they want us to have a willingness to embrace social progress; that technological change can and should be matched by social change, and that the only important parts of an idea are how many lives it betters and how much it betters those lives. This does not mean that anything goes, but rather that we continually reevaluate the social contract under which we live, and when it fails to serve the people as well as it is able we seek the minimum amount of change needed to rectify that failure. We believe that continuous incremental change is part of life, but that a sudden upending of our world is often counterproductive and should only be used as a last resort.
If you want to talk about what it means to me in terms of policy, it means that I accept that our fortunes rise and fall based on the flow of capital between industries and enterprises, and feel that choking off that flow would be in very poor judgement. I do, however, believe that capital is inherently an amoral force (not immoral, but amoral) and thus should be directed, firmly but gently, toward the enterprises where it can do the most good for the most people.
To that end I want to see a robust regulatory environment, in which small businesses are allowed to grow and flourish free of most burdens, but in which the natural pressures that lead the markets toward oligopoly and monopoly need to be countered such that the larger a business is, the more difficult it is to continue growing and thus an equilibrium will develop such that economies of scale can be realized without driving the little guy out of business.
It means that I also believe in protecting the environment via direct regulation and by pollution taxes, not because I enjoy placing burdens on our industry but because on some level we all breathe the same air, drink the same water, and live under the same climate, and irreversibly fouling any of these things may be profitable in the short term but is bad for everyone in the long term.
It means that I believe in a strong social safety net for our poor because our economy is strong enough that doing so should not impose an undue burden on those of us who are not poor, and a form of collective poverty insurance (think something similar to Social Security to supplement welfare) is a good idea because as few people should be sleeping on the sidewalk and having to live on spare change as possible. It also means that I believe (at least right now) in some form of economic protectionism until we reset our balance of trade, because a reset balance of trade means more jobs for Americans and thus a route out of generational povery for those who wish to take it and a road to the top for those who are smart enough and ambitious enough to pursue such a position.
It means that I side with the left on most if not all social issues, because I believe that as long as no undue harm comes to people there is no reason to regulate how they conduct their private lives, and that most actual stupidity is either self-correcting or can be corrected at far less of an expense to the community and to the nation than it would take to punish it.
The only "us vs. them" that I'm interested in has to do with policies counter to the intent of this agenda, that are far more likely to produce further inequality, further suffering, and further curtail personal liberties. I'm not here to fight a given group of people, I'm here to push for a different approach to economic and social policy and if that means a war of words then that's very unfortunate but it won't change my mind.
Excellent reply! You took the words right out of my keyboard.
I'm with andre1, I couldn't have said it better myself. Although the reason I sometimes spend hours on here is not to bash OWS per se, mostly I'm trying to come to an understanding of what OWS is truly about and, hopefully, to come to mutual understanding with some of the protesters on here.
i doubt you will get an understanding of ows here - too much nonsense. if you agree with andre you should be somewhere else - not sure where but there are lots of free market sites. i disagree completely with his view of economics but no point in debating. one cannot debate with zealots- our system is very broken in part because of mainstream economics - here what max neef thinks (for starters very common sense ideas) - MANFRED MAX-NEEF: The principles, you know, of an economics which should be are based in five postulates and one fundamental value principle.
One, the economy is to serve the people and not the people to serve the economy.
Two, development is about people and not about objects.
Three, growth is not the same as development, and development does not necessarily require growth.
Four, no economy is possible in the absence of ecosystem services.
Five, the economy is a subsystem of a larger finite system, the biosphere, hence permanent growth is impossible.
And the fundamental value to sustain a new economy should be that no economic interest, under no circumstance, can be above the reverence of life.
What first intrigued me about this site was the notion of 1% vs 99%. Having the rich pay more. I have never understood that line of thinking. I am not rich. I hope to be rich someday, and I hope my children end up wealthy by their own merit.
My fear is that there will be some one who will actually try to implement OWS policies. Why fix the system when you can take money from the rich to throw at it. That, to me, is the classic example of kicking the can down the road. Yes, take money out of politics. Yes, the system needs fixing. When you start vilifying a category of wage earners, what is to stop you? Will my kids be forbidden from owning a car until the illiterate in Harlem can own a car as well? Will your definition of wealth change with the seasons? I suppose I would be categorized as "wealthy" because I have a house and a car if you compare me to an individual who lives in a singlewide who has to walk.
The rich owe nothing to me or me to them. Whatever they do they do for a profit and selfishness, which is not a sin and is a known among them. What is the motive of the beaurocrat who can't take a shit without a 10 page manual, who cannot contribute a thing to society, yet has the power to distribute other people's money to whoever, whenever?
For those of you with sound ideas, we do not have to agree to have productive debate. This is how I learn. For those of you who look upon the wealthy as the enemy, I am sorry, but you are my enemy, even though I am not rich. I am not a spokesperson for the rich, I am fighting for the right of myself and my family to earn wealth without having some sniveling shit with body odor take it from us.
I hope one day you and your children are wealthy. I don't think or at least not me want these millionaires to give up everything they have. Just pay their fair share. There are so many loopholes and tax breaks that some end up paying less then you or I. If these rich people paid a little higher tax then us working class people its nothing to cry and about. What if they paid a little more so you could save a little more and open or expand a business and become wealthy. Then you could pay for your childrens education through collage at a very low or 0% interest rate so they can inturn open a business and become wealthy. Then you all can hire more americans and create more jobs. Would you care being a millionaire that you had to pay a little more? Now that's a beautiful dream I hope comes through.
Who is anyone to say what a fair share is? People making over 250k already pay a ton of taxes, yes some people pay a tax rate of 15%, because they take all over their pay in stock, and there for only pay capital gains tax, but really its a very small amount of people. Plus taxing is not a fix all solution, a reduction in rampant spending would solve a lot more than just taxing 3 million people.
If I didn't think the Antarctic Ice Shelf would melt, I'd say burn the tax codes, every page of them. Instead, I say shred it and give it to all the children so they can have a hamster. I am taking a rather simplistic approach in stark black and white terms. If a flat tax were if place with no exceptions, in the context of a streamlined, smaller government and more local responsibility. I believe that would solve a number of problems. Not all, but that would be a start.
So you can admit this country has a number of problems that need fixing. What else do you think needs fixing?
Gosh, my plumbing, my receding hair line and my kids who hate school. Beyond that I am in the perpetual thinking stage. During the debate about Obamacare in Congress, I attempted to email his office. I do not support it, not in its present form. It would be like taking over the payments on a house with an underwater mortgage with a leaky roof. I stated on the e-mail my belief in a reduction in health care costs before the government decided to take over health care. Why does the federal government think it can solve all the problems from the top? This is a nation of 300 million people and solutions need to be tried at a local level before bringing them to the national stage. I make no claims to have any answers, I really just throw some basic ideas that I believe should have a shot and see what people say. I am genuinely interested and it improves my knowledge. Occupying parks and blocking bridges unfortunately is not the way to change. OWS is all over the county. How about treating this scientifically? On a local level, try different solutions and see what works.
And what would be the goal of all this change? Well, I believe, as most everyone I guess, that the world is moving to a world community. I would like this nation to approach this community from a position of strength, economically, militarily, and individually.
My brother was so against the obamacare. He had a good job with benefits. Now he has been laid off a year. Here and there he has been sick nothing serious thank god. But he has had an ear infection and he needed a doctor a few times this year. He has been looking for a job bad I know he has. He might be getting one soon he had an interview yesterday. He now feels that obamacare might be a good thing. He owes for a student loan and they don't give a shit that he is out of work. I don't know if obamacare is right or wrong I just know people die all the time from no healthcare. My co-workers father could not get health he could afford and had a heart attack he needed open heart surgery to live. They re mortgaged his fully paid for house for the entire value of the house. Of course they could not pay it back so the house was taken from him. Now my co-workers father and mother moved in with him his wife and his 3 children. I would not like this country to move forward from a position of military at all. We are in enough wars and enough soliders have died.
That is a tragedy and I hope I am never in that position. If an insurance company cannot (or will not) fund some life-saving surgery. Has Obama looked at the reasons why? I am afraid that Obamacare will run into the same problems that a lot of the insurance companies are facing unless they streamline the costs first.
it was tested on the local level first http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o6aA9vPTe4
That piece did not address the cost.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/oct/14/rick-perry/rick-perry-ad-says-romneycare-cost-18000-jobs/
don't reply in defense. i am simply debating your position that it had no prior examples to draw upon. i make no assertions whether the plan is pass or fail because without at least 3 years of implementation i think it is unrealistic to draw a conclusion. i do however feel car insurance could be used as an anecdotal example. car insurance went down in cost significantly after a few years due to the cost being spread and some regulations.
You bring up a good point.
Congress creates the loopholes. Congress is to blame for everything. Congress passes all these initiatives and provides no funding, or worse, borrow to fund. If any of these lawmakers had anything close to a set, they would tax to pay for what they've passed. They are all chickenshit. They only care about keeping themselves protected in their little bubble. Hell, they pass massive healthcare legislation, and exempt themselves from it! If taxes were raised to pay for all of this shit as we go, this whole country would be paying 70%, or else rioting over it all.
Your two-faced, self-serving hypocrisy is blatant. You are a greedy little scum who wants his children to make as much MONEY AS POSSIBLE. You're just a frustrated millionaire. Of course you don't see millionaires as you enemy: you want to join their ranks.
What you are incapable of seeing is that there are not only less and less high paying jobs in America... there are less and less MILLIONAIRES... and less and less middle class people who own their own homes. More than 20 million families have lost their homes because of the corruption of the top 1% AND YOU DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THEM... you just care about yourself and your children: PERIOD.
Well.... guess what: so does the Kennedy clan... so does the Bush clan, so does every frickin' corrupt, evil dynasty from the English royalty to the Roman Caesars... the only difference is that they're at the TOP and they're screwing not only you, but everyone else... And when you lose your home... then all the other wannabe millionaires will spit on you and tell you to shut up and stop whining... and then maybe you'll change your RELIGION which is the worship of wealth and MONEY, and begin valuing human life more than the almighty dollar.
i got it - you're being paid to do this - makes no sense otherwise - well we all have to make a living - keep it up
I have to disagree with you here, people are not losing their homes do to something some taxpayer did. They overlevered themselves, the economy declined, as they tend to do, and they are faced with a slowing economy where they can't make their payments. The easiest solution is to get the economy growing again. If we can get GDP growth back up to 4% we are looking at probably 6 to 6.5% unemployment. At the current 3% rate we should see unemployment decline to 8%.
You haven't done your research. You haven't even begun to study the history of the financial crash which resulted in bailouts for the banks and the basic corruption of the stock market. You haven't studied the history of the stock market and the history of money.
The stock market crashed because Wall street managed to get rid of the regulations controlling their paper-scams. They managed to create illegal , ponzi schemes called credit default swaps. The amount of credit default swaps which now exist in the financial world is now greater than the money supply of the entire world.
Because Wall street managed to legalize this criminal scam, because credit default swaps do not have to be reported and are kept a SECRET. Nobody knows how much paper debt ANY financial bank or institution is holding now. Because the Govts of the world are just as corrupt as Wall street and all the politicians are are owned lock, stock and barrel by the banks: this illegal stock insurance is being traded and bought by all the financial houses.
The huge problem they all have now... is that all of these criminals are betting against themselves. In order to create a guaranteed return on their investment: they created illegal stock insurance. The illegal part of credit default swaps is the fact that they can be written up by anyone in the financial sector... WITHOUT ANY CAPITAL to back up this illegal stock insurance.
What these financial criminals have done is they have painted themselves into a corner with their own criminal greed. They tried to take all the RISK out of buying stocks and bonds etc... by guaranteeing 100 cents on the dollar return IF any stock or bond or financial corporation failed and went bust. They thought selling this illegal stock insurance was EASY MONEY, because they thought that GM and Chrysler would NEVER go bankrupt. And AIG and Bear Stearns would NEVER go bankrupt because they were 'too big to fail' The opposite is true. The bigger a financial entity is: the MORE it fails and the faster and harder it falls..
Imagine their surprise when one of them DID fail. The entire ILLEGAL house of cards almost brought all of them down
If the Govt had stepped in and declared all credit default swaps to be illegal AS THEY ACTUALLY ARE : there would have been no mortgage bubble collapse and no homes would have been repossessed.
You are now living in a world where the richest most powerful financial heads of corporations and heads of Govt are CRIMINALS. ALL OF THEM ARE CRIMINALS. They are all in collusion with each other because they tried to make the stock market a 'sure thing'..
What is happening is simple. The financial markets are not geared for success anymore: they are wired fro FAILURE. The big players have INSURED ALL OF THEIR HOLDINGS. And when any one of these banks or national currencies fail: they stand to make a KILLING on the economic disaster of billions of people who will suffer; because they are criminals.
Wouldn't YOU like to have a guaranteed insurance policy on all of your mutual funds and investment? eh? Say Someone offered you a deal that for a small percentage of your investment: you could INSURE yourself against losing any money.. EH?
Why then EVERYONE in the whole fucking world would buy an insurance policy on their stocks and bonds and NOBODY would lose and money! Wheeeee!
Oops. ... THAT'S NOT HOW THE STOCK MARKET WORKS This would result in everybody OWING everybody else MONEY THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE: And then EVERYBODY GOES BROKE and in debt. As long as these illegal credit default swaps are honored: the end the total DESTRUCTION of the entire global financial system is GUARANTEED IN STONE.
The trouble is that the banks do NOT write stock insurance credit default swaps for YOU, the little investor: they only write these illegal insurance policies for THEMSELVES and only for their RICHEST CLIENTS...
Meaning that every time there is a financial downturn: are you ready? You fucking ignoramus?? "Da rich get richer, and da poor get poorer" The poor lose ALL OF THEIR MONEY: while the RICH are paid back their losses 100 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR: regardless if it takes printing billions and trillions more paper dollars, regardless if it puts your CHILDREN into debt forever, regardless of all sanity and reason. Because these motherfuckers are criminally GREEDY and THEY DO NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ANYONE ELSE EXCEPT THEMSELVES.
So don't come here with your fucking ignorant unresearched mass media understanding of what the real problems are. You haven't a fucking CLUE about how fucked up and corrupt your entire society, culture and your WORLD is
Name calling gets you nowhere and I would be happy to compare my knowledge of money, markets and economics with you. However I am not naive enough to know u have all the answers.
The financial problem is pretty simple, the Fed kept short term rates low which caused people and financial institutions to reach for yield which means leverage. If you believe that every banker who issued a loan or a CLO or a home owner who took out a HELOC and bought a TV with it is a criminal, then we are going to disagree.
There is absolutely no regulation that is going to stop the market from working. This had been tried many times and black markets pop up to meet the needs.
In my opinion, the real question is how should we value money and what should the mechanism be. Since you seem to be so trained in money economics you will know about the history of gold and paying for WW I and after.
So why do you think the Fed went off the price rule in the mid 90s?
go fuck yourself: asshole you have not addressed ot answered one single part of my post: and because you refuse to answer em i will refuse to answer you: you stinking piece of shit
The illegal use of CREDIT DEFAULT SWAPS is the reason the market crashed
you are another PAID TROLL
READ THIS AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and until you wake up enough to TALK to me about what I've told you you can go FUCK yourself.
You haven't done your research. You haven't even begun to study the history of the financial crash which resulted in bailouts for the banks and the basic corruption of the stock market. You haven't studied the history of the stock market and the history of money.
The stock market crashed because Wall street managed to get rid of the regulations controlling their paper-scams. They managed to create illegal , ponzi schemes called credit default swaps. The amount of credit default swaps which now exist in the financial world is now greater than the money supply of the entire world.
Because Wall street managed to legalize this criminal scam, because credit default swaps do not have to be reported and are kept a SECRET. Nobody knows how much paper debt ANY financial bank or institution is holding now. Because the Govts of the world are just as corrupt as Wall street and all the politicians are are owned lock, stock and barrel by the banks: this illegal stock insurance is being traded and bought by all the financial houses.
The huge problem they all have now... is that all of these criminals are betting against themselves. In order to create a guaranteed return on their investment: they created illegal stock insurance. The illegal part of credit default swaps is the fact that they can be written up by anyone in the financial sector... WITHOUT ANY CAPITAL to back up this illegal stock insurance.
What these financial criminals have done is they have painted themselves into a corner with their own criminal greed. They tried to take all the RISK out of buying stocks and bonds etc... by guaranteeing 100 cents on the dollar return IF any stock or bond or financial corporation failed and went bust. They thought selling this illegal stock insurance was EASY MONEY, because they thought that GM and Chrysler would NEVER go bankrupt. And AIG and Bear Stearns would NEVER go bankrupt because they were 'too big to fail' The opposite is true. The bigger a financial entity is: the MORE it fails and the faster and harder it falls..
Imagine their surprise when one of them DID fail. The entire ILLEGAL house of cards almost brought all of them down
If the Govt had stepped in and declared all credit default swaps to be illegal AS THEY ACTUALLY ARE : there would have been no mortgage bubble collapse and no homes would have been repossessed.
You are now living in a world where the richest most powerful financial heads of corporations and heads of Govt are CRIMINALS. ALL OF THEM ARE CRIMINALS. They are all in collusion with each other because they tried to make the stock market a 'sure thing'..
What is happening is simple. The financial markets are not geared for success anymore: they are wired fro FAILURE. The big players have INSURED ALL OF THEIR HOLDINGS. And when any one of these banks or national currencies fail: they stand to make a KILLING on the economic disaster of billions of people who will suffer; because they are criminals.
Wouldn't YOU like to have a guaranteed insurance policy on all of your mutual funds and investment? eh? Say Someone offered you a deal that for a small percentage of your investment: you could INSURE yourself against losing any money.. EH?
Why then EVERYONE in the whole fucking world would buy an insurance policy on their stocks and bonds and NOBODY would lose and money! Wheeeee!
Oops. ... THAT'S NOT HOW THE STOCK MARKET WORKS This would result in everybody OWING everybody else MONEY THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE: And then EVERYBODY GOES BROKE and in debt. As long as these illegal credit default swaps are honored: the end the total DESTRUCTION of the entire global financial system is GUARANTEED IN STONE.
The trouble is that the banks do NOT write stock insurance credit default swaps for YOU, the little investor: they only write these illegal insurance policies for THEMSELVES and only for their RICHEST CLIENTS...
Meaning that every time there is a financial downturn: are you ready? You fucking ignoramus?? "Da rich get richer, and da poor get poorer" The poor lose ALL OF THEIR MONEY: while the RICH are paid back their losses 100 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR: regardless if it takes printing billions and trillions more paper dollars, regardless if it puts your CHILDREN into debt forever, regardless of all sanity and reason. Because these motherfuckers are criminally GREEDY and THEY DO NOT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ANYONE ELSE EXCEPT THEMSELVES.
So don't come here with your fucking ignorant unresearched mass media understanding of what the real problems are. You haven't a fucking CLUE about how fucked up and corrupt your entire society, culture and your WORLD is
I am hurt, Turak, I thought you saved all your vitriol for me!
Anger issues?
The rest of the public doesn't agree with you so my suggestion is you move.
When I lose my home, if I do, it will be because I made a mistake financially. No whinig here. No worries here either, when I know you will find a foreclosed house for me to occupy. Merry Christmas and spend some money at the sales.
your bullshit stinks so much no decent human being wants anything to do with you and your stinking selfish family. Your kind is excommunicated from all decent people and that means every person in the Occupy Wall street movement: you're a stinking capitalist pig.
I see that you are a writer. Give me some of your titles. Actually, it might make for a good read. Really, I have The Turner Diaries and assorted works by The Michael Moore. I learn from reading and I might learn about you and your kind from your writing
If you will not accept money, then maybe we can barter a chicken. I do own chickens. Those are about the only thing I own outright. I do have house payments, car payments, credit card payments, and payments for my children's college fund. If I were one of the "stinking capitalist pigs" that you think is so evil, I would have been able to pay everything up front with cash. I cannot, though, so Bank of America and Chase are offering money for me to borrow to purchase these things, and let me tell you somethin turak, it isn't free. It is a service and I am paying for it, which I should, since nothing is free.
Why are you so mad? Is it PMS or you didn't get the toy you wanted for Christmas. Lighten up, get laid, and figure out ways to fix the problem instead of throwing F-bombs in my lap. I offer ideas of my own and exchange them with people on this forum. You are like that little snotty sibling that I love to poke and prod, just to get you to squeal! Merry Christmas and spend at the mall!
So no holiday cards or invitation to you Occupy feast? If we are all one and money is evil, don't I get a portion of your meal if I share mine? If I have to pay taxes to the law enforcement and city officials who have to clean up after you or re-open the ports, then will you contribute some money to my children's college fund?
Oh wait a second, I am excommunicated! Well I guess you guys are the pigs of the animal farm.
Where did you ever get the idea that decent people can stand your guts? Where do you get the idea that decent ppeople would even want you near them? Where did you ever get the idea that we tolerate scum like you?
By surfing on internet forms? NOT
Actually, I don't really give a shit what people think about me. I am merely one person in 300 million trying to steer a few people away from the madness that is OWS. Good ideas are here, sure, but not the whole freaking platform! And you really are my most special person on this forum. You really could be like my little sibling. You just rant and rave like my 5 year old. It really makes me laugh my balls off at the thought of it all.
I have to spend some of the poor people's money on Amazon. Talk to you later, chuckles.
you two deserve each other - wow - what a waste of time - you are for sure off base in your thinking about economics and wealth but i hope you make it. good luck - it's not easy unless you got mommy or daddy behind you in some way. here is a good place to start if you are truly searching for knowledge -NOAM CHOMSKY: Well I basically agree with your picture. In my view, the breakdown of the Bretton Woods system in the early 1970s is probably the major international event since 1945, much more significant in its implications than the collapse of the Soviet Union.
From roughly 1950 until the early 1970s there was a period of unprecedented economic growth and egalitarian economic growth. So the lowest quintile did as well -- in fact they even did a little bit better -- than the highest quintile. It was also a period of some limited but real form of benefits for the population. And in fact social indicators, measurements of the health of society, they very closely tracked growth. As growth went up social indicators went up, as you'd expect. Many economists called it the golden age of modern capitalism -- they should call it state capitalism because government spending was a major engine of growth and development.
In the mid 1970s that changed. Bretton Woods restrictions on finance were dismantled, finance was freed, speculation boomed, huge amounts of capital started going into speculation against currencies and other paper manipulations, and the entire economy became financialized. The power of the economy shifted to the financial institutions, away from manufacturing. And since then, the majority of the population has had a very tough time; in fact it may be a unique period in American history. There's no other period where real wages -- wages adjusted for inflation -- have more or less stagnated for so long for a majority of the population and where living standards have stagnated or declined. If you look at social indicators, they track growth pretty closely until 1975, and at that point they started to decline, so much so that now we're pretty much back to the level of 1960. There was growth, but it was highly inegalitarian -- it went into a very small number of pockets. There have been brief periods in which this shifted, so during the tech bubble, which was a bubble in the late Clinton years, wages improved and unemployment went down, but these are slight deviations in a steady tendency of stagnation and decline for the majority of the population.
Financial crises have increased during this period, as predicted by a number of international economists. Once financial markets were freed up, there was expected to be an increase in financial crises, and that's happened. This crisis happens to be exploding in the rich countries, so people are talking about it, but it's been happening regularly around the world -- some of them very serious -- and not only are they increasing in frequency but they're getting deeper. And it's been predicted and discussed and there are good reasons for it.
The 1950's was when Eisenhower started contruction on the interstate highway system. Obama's stimulus package of 787 billion, beside bailing out financial instistutions, was supposed to go toward infrastructure improvement. If I thought it could be done with little beaurocracy and in the context of responsible government budgeting, I would be for it 100%. But I think the machinery has gotten too rusty and too deep to be able to go back to those days.
i agree - we are mostly screwed - when fdr did it he paid workers directly - now they hire a company that takes 30% off the top then hires people. i do think we could bail ourselves out still, if we had leaders who would step up. alt energy and infrastructure would put people to work and save us money in the future - our roads and water systems are crumbling - i won't go on - if you are interested a guy named leeb has written "game over" about this subject with an investment angle - he goes through all the alt energies and points out the problems with each of them. anyway i had a short back and forth with your pal turak - what a nut job - fun to tweek though
Thank you for exposing what you are. Now every single person who read this thread knows what you are. I am VERY good at forcing those who HIDE how corrupt they are to EXPOSE themselves naked.
In case there was a doubt, I am a right-leaning individual with a 6 figure income. I am not ashamed of that fact. I am not perfect and I am always searching for information or my own use and understanding. I see it as a mark of silent pride that I am able to succeed and provide for my family. I hope to continue to do so and I have a long way to go before I am satisfied, economically, intellectually, or anyother way. My motto is that there is always room for improvement. And right now I am trying to understand you, turak. What makes you burn with fury? What drives you? What do you believe in. Perhaps we can debate. Don't forget to shop for your loved ones.
Expose yourself more. Scream out to all the decent honest human beings what filt you are: tell us every detail of your corrupt life... evil always exposes itself when confronted by GOOD.
You are not answering my questions. Why are you so angry. What drives you? What are your beliefs? Talk to me Turak.
You have not answered one of MY questions you have not answered ONE of MY Accusations. You have not responded to one of MY statement. And MY statements are RUE: while your statements are full of BULLSHIT
YOU AVOID answering all accusations because you are GUILTY AS SIN.
As long as you ignore what I tell you and say to you: I will NEVER SPEAK TO YOU ND i WILL ignore you AND NOT ANSWER anything YOU POST UNTIL YOU answer me and answer the accusations i have listed against you.
you stand accused in public of being a capitalist spy: coming here secretly, hiding your true identity until it was ripped off your face and your mask of innocence was exposed as a fraud and now you parade here proudly as an enemy of all the OWS movement on the OWS forum: just because you think nobody can get at you physically to give you the bums rush OUT of here.
You've been identified as the enemy. I don't speak to fucking shitholes like you. I DESPISE you and all your supposed material 'advantages' which are a bunch of boring useless shit: which is exactly waht you are.
OK. I will play along. As if I have as much chance of proving my inocence as you have or proving my guilt. You call me a capitalist spy. I wish you would define it for me please. To accuse me of being a spy is to imply that you have something to hide. Do you? Anyway, I fail to see the problem of asking serious questions about your movement. It is how I learn and I have exchanged dialogue with a lot of sensible people out there. No I do not agree with a majority of your views, but so what? Does that mean that we cannot exchange ideas and gain better understanding? I hope I have answered your first interrogation. If it is not to your satsifation, then by all means grill me some more. I am here and plan to stay here for a long time.
Till then, cheers!
You're looking for attention; Goodbye.
you're a boring asshole who is talking to himself
Other than the credit default swaps, what are some of your other views? Do you believe in a flat tax?
Are you a successful writer? Any works on the New York Times bestseller list? Have you sold any works? Or do you write raving manifestos to be found at crime scenes?
I found a very good deal. At a very good price. So I bought it.
[Removed]
i will answer as best I can as you ask them.
I am a Teamster no matter what you say I know I am and am proud of it. I never sat in the park and will most likely never do it. I don't agree with everything of what the OWS people say. How do you have a house if you don't make shit? How do you pay your student loan if you don't make shit? If you could get a break on your student loan of work out smaller payment or interest free you would say no? As for all the rest you said I ask why do you care? You have nothing better to do? If this is pointless and going nowhere why would the take the time out to care about hating it?
I get all the breaks I can exploit with my loan. I got it cut down by 2%. It's not a huge loan, either. Due to circumstances I'm not getting into with someone I don't know(no offense), I took over. It took me a long time and lots of work(multiple jobs, odd jobs, etc), but I got it. I don't make shit, because after my check gets cut up depending on what needs to be paid, I really don't have much.... except for a house and a car in my name. No proper company would give you money for nothing. That's just silly.
So you can exploit the system and no one else? If my mortgage rate was at 6% and people were fighting and got theirs for 2%. I would try to get mine down to 2%. I would not cry and scream and try to get it taken from them. You have answered almost all the questions I have asked and I appreciate your timebut can you answer the last one.
I didn't exploit anything. That's the way I set up my loan. I said it was cut down by 2%. Not is 2%. It's down to 4 from 6. If you can get things set up by reading what is out in front of you(Not what a lot of people do when signing contracts, or they just don't understand them), go for it. If I'm paying what I agreed to pay with the company, then no, I don't think someone else should come crying about how they can't pay, so they don't have to pay any interest. I wouldn't do it, and neither would the companies. There's no fighting about it. Ask about paperless billing, automatic withdraws, actually pay the bill(some companies will help you out if they see you pay on time, every time) etc. these are the ways you get your rates reduced. And I'm not hating. I just don't understand where all of this is going. The way these people are going about thing is illegal. They hide behind the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, which is okay for them, but not the"evil rich corps". You can't be a hypocrite and expect credibilty. They don't "know their enemy"(because if you ask around, you'll get 10 different answers), nor where they are(almost no major companies are on Wall St., much less where the other camps are), and the only people they are hurting are the ones they claim to be protecting. Not only by leaving the park, so the people who are paid to clean can do their job and get paid, but now they are attacking(as in physically beating them) people who aren't with them. This whole thing is losing it's cohesiveness, and will be over by the end of winter-I'd almost be willing to bet