Forum Post: The Failure to Investigate 9/11 Has Bankrupted America
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 3, 2011, 6:45 p.m. EST by alouis
(1511)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/the-failure-to-investigate-911-has-bankrupted-america.html
The Failure to Investigate 9/11 Has Bankrupted America Posted on December 3, 2011 by WashingtonsBlog Preface: This post does not discuss whether or not 9/11 was a “false flag” operation or an “inside job”. Anything other than a discussion of the negligence of the Bush administration is unnecessary for the purposes of this essay, and is thus beyond the scope of this post.
In case you didn’t get the memo, we are currently in a depression. And see this
And given that American citizens can be indefinitely detained or assassinated at the whim of the president, it is pretty clear that we now live in a police state.
This post will demonstrate – without getting into discussions of an “inside job” one way or the other – that the failure to hold a real 9/11 investigation is a core cause of our loss of our prosperity and freedom.
The Failure to Investigate 9/11 Has Bankrupted America
Top economists say that endless war bankrupts a nation.
For example, Nobel prize winning economist Joe Stiglitz says that the $3-5 trillion spent on the Iraq war alone has been very bad for the American economy. See this, this and this.
The endless wars have also been a main component of America’s soaring debt:
Well what kind of spineless sheep would let Bush and Cheney get away with refusing to testify under oath before Congress, and refusing to allow any recordings of their testimony? If Americans are that stupid, they deserve to conquered.
I agree. When asked why he was doing this, the shrub (Bush Jr.), could barely get an answer together. Watch this. Extremely suspicious at the very least. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8314287694884422555
But this is no place for conspiracy theories according to the rules.
seems anything of significance in our lives is considered a conspiracy theory. anything that we the masses wish to know about or discuss gets labeled and marginalized away every time. Freedom of speech here is an illusion
This is true. One thing I do not understand is why anyone would be against a reinvestigation. It would put to rest any doubts. I do not see any negative motives behind this. And yet many people are against this. Why do people not want this tragedy reopened? At the very least to give the families some closure. They want this. I believe they deserve it.
Yes, for sure family members deserve this. I suppose there are some that believe the official story, for many reasons. I wish to be respectful to them. But for those that don't which is an ever growing number, can you imagine not knowing how your son or daughter, mother or father, sister or brother, friend or colleague, and on and on, died? i mean what was the real cause or reason for their death. People need closure, they need to understand, then they can grieve and become healthy again.
The way it is now, everyone doesn't really know what happened and it makes us all unhealthy.
Probably the biggest reason why there hasn't been a re-investigation is the powers that be, do everything they can to make sure it doesn't happen. The truth be known it would undermine their whole world domination agenda, among other things. They don't seem to care two hoots about family members or millions of others who've gotten caught in their crossfire. You gotta wonder how they sleep at night?!
Anyhow, i'm not looking to lay blame. I believe we are all responsible, and we must look within, but this is another discussion.
That said, another reason why it's difficult to garner public support for new/real investigation, is because it's extremely hard for us to look within and face our demons.
However, as hard as it is, it's something we must do, both individually and collectively, starting with individual, if we are to evolve and be healthy again.
I think for family members and victims worldwide and for our collective conscious, we need to have a new/real investigation, letting evidence fall where it will, then we can go through phases of dealing with loss and we can become healthy. Plus it enables our collective consciousness to evolve, which could be a great benefit to humanity and Mother Nature.
Yes very well said. I think when many people have believed in something so strongly, it is hard for them to to be able to admit that they may have been mistaken. I fully understand this feeling. There is a quote I find fitting here. "When an honest man finds himself to be mistaken. He will either cease to be mistaken or cease to be honest." I believe this is why most people who believe the official story choose to ignore any other possibility. To avoid that feeling of admission of guilt.
yeah, agree. i have attached to some things too much, and it caused/causes great pain for me :) probably we've all been there or are still there. it seems a characteristic of being human, or evolving anyway. haha.
I'm not sure if you already saw this video, but it seems quite well done about the psychology of dealing with 9/11. It specifically talks about trauma and cognitive dissonance, which probably has affected/affects us all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trfCyvLAQd8
Thank you I will watch it. I have learned recently not to attach myself to things. If you can remind yourself of the impermanence of life, this becomes much easier to do. Once we realize that we are all connected in that we are all humans. We all seek to live a life of happiness. And we would like to achieve this with little or no suffering. Then we can evolve and start the path to peace. Treating others with kindness benefits everyone involved. It leaves all parties with a great sense of happiness. I believe this simple philosophy can change the world view. Spread kindness like a virus. Use your heart as a weapon.
Amen brother :) Thanks for sharing about this.. It reminds me I need to be more kind to my family. Sometimes, often, i'm hard on them. As you say, i must let go of attachment to my thought about things and just do simple kindness towards them. I'll do it. Thank you :)
i love it... our heart is our weapon, shooting love and kindness :)
Blessings to you and your family.
Thank you :) and blessings to you and your family as well :)
5.5 Tons of cocaine connected to Dubia's life-long friend and business partner.
Shrub = Arbusto as in Arbusto Energy, as in Dubia's first company, founded with money provided by the bin Laden family through an arrangement set up by James R. Bath. The same James R. Bath with ownership ties to N900SA. The CIA-connected drug plane seized in Mexico with 5.5 tons of cocaine on board. The plane was also partly owned by a company with a business address at the "terrorist flight school" where "terrorist leader" Mohamed Atta "took flying lessons". Translation, where Atta few drugs for the BFEE.
Oh, and the founder of the holding company was Michael D. Farkas a far right Zionist organization, so extreme it is banned in Israel.
N987SA google it!
Hi fjolsvit, Yes, have researched it. Your posts speak the truth. Best Regards, Nevada
Only 4.4 tons of CIA coke on that one.
God Bless ameriKKKa, home of the brave, and land of the stupid.
YEP, all you say is true, ... but nobody cared then and nobody cares now, when Bin-Laden was getting cocaine dollars from Ollie-North to buy stinger missiles to shoot down afghan choppers nobody cares.
My favorite part of 1986 is when RONALD RAYGUN ( us president ) said "Team Bin-Laden are the moral equivalent of our founding fathers", .. so fucking true.
Because our founding fathers were fucking assholes :)
5.5 tons of cocaine on a plane traceable to the Bush Mob and terror flight school Huffman Aviation has nothing to do with your inane blather.
Yeh, I know I remember.
But please remind the children here at that time, when the cocaine was sold on US streets and the CASH sent to afgha to buy stinger-missiles that RONALD RAYGUN the PRES and god of our right-wing kluster-fuck-heads at FOX, that RONALD SAID "Mujahdeen is the MORAL equivalent of our founding fathers", Osama Bin Laden was CIA paymaster all the cocaine dollars were sent to him, he used the money to buy stingers from ollie-north,
Ollie-North ran boths sides of the game, bring cocaine to the USA, and selling it and send the money to Afghan, where he had other guys sell stingers for cash, the same cash he had sent and all the cash flowed back to Singlaub, Ollies boss at the time.
Brilliant,
Equivalent of Founding Fathers? Hell yes, at that time the USA and British were filling Asia full of OPIUM, ... Hell yes Osama-Bin-Laden is same-same
Remember Nancy saying "just say no to drugs".
Astrology NANCY? :)
Shit those people must have been having fun, snorting free cocaine an talking shit about Mujahadeen being 'Moral equivalent of our founding fathers'
You know in the 1930's Raygun was a porn star, there's shit still around if you look hard.
Agree.
As drug lords operated in the White House basement. I suspect Ron and Nancy were oblivious to what Bush was up to.
Remember Miami Vice in the 80s? It was art imitating life.
Glen Frey - Smugglers blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7uKjo_URBo
There's trouble on the streets tonight,
I can feel it in my bones.
I had a premonition,
That he should not go alone.
I knew the gun was loaded,
But I didn't think he'd kill.
Everything exploded,
And the blood began to spill.
So baby, here's your ticket,
Put the suitcase in your hand.
Here's a little money now,
Do it just the way we planned.
You be cool for twenty hours
And I'll pay you twenty grand.
I'm sorry it went down like this,
And someone had to lose,
It's the nature of the business,
It's the smuggler's blues.
Smuggler's Blues
The sailors and pilots,
The soldiers and the law,
The pay offs and the rip offs,
And the things nobody saw.
No matter if it's heroin, cocaine, or hash,
You've got to carry weapons
Cause you always carry cash.
There's lots of shady characters,
Lots of dirty deals.
Ev'ry name's an alias
In case somebody squeals.
It's the lure of easy money,
It's gotta very strong appeal.
Perhaps you'd understand it better
Standin' in my shoes,
It's the ultimate enticement,
It's the smuggler's blues,
Smuggler's blues.
See it in the headlines,
You hear it ev'ry day.
They say they're gonna stop it,
But it doesn't go away.
They move it through Miami, sell it in L.A.,
They hide it up in Telluride,
I mean it's here to stay.
It's propping up the governments in Columbia and Peru,
You ask any D.E.A. man,
He'll say There's nothin' we can do,
From the office of the President,
Right down to me and you, me and you.
It's a losing proposition,
But one you can't refuse.
It's the politics of contraband,
It's the smuggler's blues,
Smuggler's blues.
If you think that was about arming a few rag-tag resistance forces, you don't understand the American drug lords.
The US/UK governments have had the WORLD hooked on drugs for over 300 years.
Are you accusing the usurping "House of Windsor" of being drug lords? If not, shall I?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-are-911-truthers-scrubbing-the-bottom-of-the-b/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-are-911-truthers-scrubbing-the-bottom-of-the-b/
In a way you're right, but the consequences for the world are too terrible. No harm trying to awaken the sleeping giant called 99%!
Spread 9/11 Truth OWS has the power.
http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/572-ae911truth-supporters-inform-occupy-movement.html
I think that stupid is the wrong word. Americans like people everywhere want to trust their "elected" officials. Further, we didn't have the information and overall awareness then that we have today, and there are emotional and psychological issues which must run their natural course.
Probably it was contested, but as we are learning, often what the public asks for and what it gets are quite far apart. This lack of true representation is one of the keystone reasons why we have OWS.
Perhaps a more pointed and succinct response to the question of potential 'stupidity' can be heard by professor Graeme MacQueen's heartfelt comments towards the end of this brilliant lecture at approximately 1:55 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNPeMvsSbl4
Hitler's "Big Lie" theory explains part of why people believe the 9/11 OCT, even though it is logically absurd. People just can't believe anyone could tell a lie so big. Even more to the point, they don't believe so many could conspire to maintain the lie.
A lot of what Hitler said in Mein Kampf is revealing with regard to the current sociopolitical milieu. For example, what he says about propaganda:
"The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to. Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be. But if, as in propaganda for sticking out a war, the aim is to influence a whole people, we must avoid excessive intellectual demands on our public, and too much caution cannot be extended in this direction.
The more modest its intellectual ballast, the more exclusively it takes into consideration the emotions of the masses, the more effective it will be. And this is the best proof of the soundness or unsoundness of a propaganda campaign, and not success pleasing a few scholars or young aesthetes.
The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses. The fact that our bright boys do not understand this merely shows how mentally lazy and conceited they are.
Once understood how necessary it is for propaganda in be adjusted to the broad mass, the following rule results: It is a mistake to make propaganda many-sided, like scientific instruction, for instance.
The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan. As soon as you sacrifice this slogan and try to be many-sided, the effect will piddle away, for the crowd can neither digest nor retain the material offered. In this way the result is weakened and in the end entirely cancelled out.
Thus we see that propaganda must follow a simple line and correspondingly the basic tactics must be psychologically sound.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
What, for example, would we say about a poster that was supposed to advertise a new soap and that described other soaps as 'good'?
We would only shake our heads.
Exactly the same applies to political advertising.
The function of propaganda is, for example, not to weigh and ponder the rights of different people, but exclusively to emphasize the one right which it has set out to argue for. Its task is not to make an objective study of the truth, in so far as it favors the enemy, and then set it before the masses with academic fairness; its task is to serve our own right, always and unflinchingly. "
Notice that I try at every opportunity to engage people's intellect. My strategy is just the opposite of Hitler's.
Amen. Many Americans are lost on the reality that once a bullet is fired, the material thereof is uncoverable. Need a larger example, think Vietnam and those helicopters we tossed over board. Wars of choice are wars of extravagance.
I already read this Original Post on alex jones website.
This is the original: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/12/the-failure-to-investigate-911-has-bankrupted-america.html I found it here: http://911blogger.com/news/2011-12-03/failure-investigate-911-has-bankrupted-america
bin laden's plan all along. To let America bankrupt itself by starting 2 wars.
American Enterprise Institute's plan was to get us into wars which will destroy our economy. They do NOT represent America. These are the people who had the war on Iraq in the planning stages before 9/11. They are also suspiciously close to the events of 9/11.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8153555086218873684
BinLaden didn't have a thing to do with it except as the scapegoat. 9/11 was a joint operation conducted primarily by Mossad and Neocon government officials in the Bush administration.
you need to think before you post.
Physiologically impossible otherwise, in fact. Bravo!
You're Icke-ing it again.
I recommend anyone foolish enough to Seriously consider this self-proclaimed "sophist truther" simply read his profile. Socrates is LOLing in his grave
Remember in the week following Sept 11, 2001, when every commercial airline in the USA was grounded, and not a single American could fly on a plane, Bush let the Bin Laden family charter about a dozen jets and flee the USA?
What kind of mouth breathing, drooling, nose picking, knuckle walking, hairy back, goons would fall for a joke like that? After the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, did the President allow wealthy Japanese families to flee the USA? Duh.......
Couldn't Bush at least hold the Bin Laden family for 30 days of questioning? Only one week after 9-11, the President basically admits that he is colluding with the Bin Laden family, and nobody even asked him to explain his action. I'm laughing at the stupidity of the sheeple.
First, the airspace opened on September 13th and all of the flights left after that. That is fact.
Second, it was not just the bin Laden family. It was also Saudi Diplomats and members of the Saudi Royal Family. All of the flights were screened by the FBI before they were allowed to depart.
This is SOP in a world crisis. Countries fly their nationals out of hostile places. Foreign Nationals were still being evacuated under the "No Fly Zone" in Libya. When Russia was rolling Georgia in 2008, Americans could get out as a warzone is unsafe to be in. Being a Saudi Royal Family member or a distant relative of Osama bin Laden made these people fear that they would be lynched for no reason. Of course they wanted out.
Good post.
Israeli airliner flew on 9/11.
ditto
You win, the US government is not worth saving, let it die folks,let it go down, escape now with your lives.
You failed to mention that the Bin-Laden family bought the 2nd BUSH president his baseball team, the only fucking job the coke-head ever had his whole miserable life, prior to becoming a politician.
p.s. How do you know WE didn't boat out 'rich' jap's prior to hauling their asses in mass off to prison. Shit we brought the Nazi's scientists back to build our space program, why the fuck wouldn't we have saved Rich Japs, .. study your history.
Hi owsleaders2011, Don't forget, 2nd-Bush had to work hard to get those DUIs. Best Regards, Nevada
Allowing the Federal Reserve to exist and force us to use their Federal Reserve Debt Notes was the start of the downfall of our economic future.
Those Federal Reserve Notes are just like your house or car note... they are debt instruments but you can't pay them off... you lose about 5% every year we continue using them. That's why our dollar is so worthless. I bought my first car with only $3000 $1.00 bills. Now it would take near a wheel barrel full of $1.00 bills to buy a new car. That's because the Federal Reserve Notes are designed that way. It is a way of stealing from you. When we used silver dollars, they could not clip a little off each coin because we would notice. They could not steal directly from the vault because we would notice it. So they found a way to steal using just plain paper for our trade and commerce.
Everyone should know by now that those banksters are not Federal and that there is no Reserve at least for our benefit and the the Notes indicate debt for us as long as we allow the use of the Federal Reserve Notes... Demand... we go back to Constitutional money.
Do you know what Constitutional money is? It is central to our freedom under the Constitution! As long as they can destroy your ability to have a rich financial future. they have taken your freedom for everything else away too!
I like the bill proposed by Kucinich. I don't favor the gold standard. You shall not crucify mankind on a cross of gold!
There is no need for investigation into 9/11. We all know Ex-President Bush and his counterparts and Senior Bush along with the Bin Laden family all planned for this to happened, no surprise. A perfect way to make the American people believe there was a reason for going to war against Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction and none were found. The government planted its seed and it has developed into our present state. Now Obama's and Britain's plan is to go to war against Iran.
So when are Americans gonna wake up from their slumber, wipe the tears from their eyes and say enough is enough. We are killing ourselves off at an alarming rate. How much is enough? To these pigs at the trough, it's never enough. Corporate greed doesn't care about you or your family. It knows no limit. It is a tapeworm and it is injecting it's chemicals into you and making you crave what is good for the greed. Please wake up before it is too late! Please!
thanks
[Removed]
yep
9/11 was the pretext for so much of what OWS is opposing. When the rest of OWS realize that the same hyper-rich kleptocrats who are gutting our economy were responsible for 9/11, then the movement will have clout.
yes, agree, what the masses are protesting, yes, but i'm learning many of top OWS people want nothing to do with 9/11 since it gets in the way of what is perhaps their main goal to sell out the movement in some way to one of the political parties.
Apparently they care nothing about the masses, except for using them to accomplish their own personal agenda. the masses are the "Useful Idiots"
This is why they have banned "conspiracy theory" discussion and other related things on this forum, and further not included 9/11 new/real investigation in their 99% Declaration.
Leading the opposition is a traditional kleptocratic tactic. A directed protest against "the rich" makes the ill-informed feel as if they have a voice. It will have no real impact in the end. A few scapegoats will be offered up to sate the bloodthirst of the mob. They will shuffle the Fed mandate to make it look like a correction, but will leave the same crooks in control.
yes, it's becoming more clear.
Any hope or ideas to bring about real change for the masses?
9/11 Truth is power for the people. Getting the Truth to the masses will shatter the illusion.
absolutely!
But it gets squelched at every turn.
Ron Lawl
Ronald (Ron) Earnest Paul. So far in this election cycle Paul is the only candidate who comes close to saying what needs saying. I find it ironic that he is the one explicitly rejected by the would-be OWS leadership.
Actually, deficit spending has bankrupted America.
It is time to deal with the issues at hand now and quit the rhetoric of saying 9/11 was an inside job. It is a distraction now even if it were true. The perpetrators of the event, if insiders, will never be brought to justice so it is time to deal with issues that we face now.
We can blame the supreme courts for calling the election for Bush, blame the Saudis, blame the fundamentalists of what ever belief system they have, blame what ever you want but it will not bring solutions to what is happening at the moment. If I were to lay blame on someone it would be a drastically uninformed electorate that votes by slogan rather than rational thought.
it's less about laying blame somewhere, and more about letting truth surface, creating a healthy environment for us all. perhaps we're all to blame in a sense. and we all need to look inward for community to be healthy again
Hi alouis, Good post. Best Regards, Nevada
What you need to know about "Peer-review" Useful information for "non-scientists" about the process of peer-reviewed publishing, http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20090408155422238 such as has been the case with Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe, Fourteen Points of Agreement with Official Government Reports on the World Trade Center Destruction, and Environmental Anomalies at the World Trade Center: Evidence for Energetic Materials . – Ed.
April 7, 2009 Steven Jones 911blogger.com Since the days of Sir Isaac Newton, Science has proceeded through the publication of peer-reviewed papers. Peer-review means a thorough reading, commentary and even challenge before publication by "peers", that is, other PhD's and professors. This paper was thoroughly peer-reviewed with several pages of tough comments that required of our team MONTHS of additional experiments and studies. It was the toughest peer-review I've ever had, including THREE papers for which I was first author in NATURE. (Please note that Prof. Harrit is first author on this paper.) We sought an established journal that would allow us a LONG paper (this paper is 25 pages long) with MANY COLOR IMAGES AND GRAPHS. Such a scientific journal is not easy to find. Page charges are common for scientific journals these days, and are typically paid by the University of the first or second author (as is the case with this paper) or by an external grant.
A peer-reviewed journal is also called a "refereed" journal. Peer-reviewers are almost always anonymous for scientific publications like this -- that is standard in the scientific world. While authors commonly recommend potential peer-reviewers, editors choose the referees and usually pick at least one or two reviewers that the authors did NOT mention -- and that is almost certainly the case with this paper (based on commentary we received from the reviewers). In the end, all the reviewers -- who were selected by the editor(s) -- approved publication. Thus, the paper was subjected to peer review by the editor or editors, and it passed the peer-review process.
Debunkers may raise all sorts of objections on forums, such as "Oh, it's just paint" or "the aluminum is bound up in kaolin." We have answered those questions in the paper, and shown them to be nonsense, but you have to read to find the answers. I may also provide answers here and in emails, often quoting from the paper to show that the answers are already in it.
Here's what you need to know (especially if you are not a scientist): UNLESS AN OBJECTOR ACTUALLY PUBLISHES HIS OR HER OBJECTION IN A PEER-REVIEWED ESTABLISHED JOURNAL (yes that would include Bentham Scientific journals), THEN THE OBJECTION IS NOT CONSIDERED SERIOUS IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY. YOU SHOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT NON-PUBLISHED OBJECTIONS EITHER.
So how do you, as a non-scientist, discern whether the arguments are valid or not? You should first ask, "is the objection PUBLISHED in an ESTABLISHED PEER-REVIEWED JOURNAL?" If not, you can and should say -- "I will wait to see this formally published in a refereed scientific journal. Until then, the published peer-reviewed work by Harrit et al. stands. "
BTW, there also has been no PUBLISHED REFEREED paper yet that counters either the "Fourteen Points" paper or the "Environmental Anomalies" papers we published last year.
IF it is so easy to publish in Bentham Scientific journals, or if these are "vanity publications" (note: there is no factual basis for these charges) -- then why don't the objectors write up their objections and get them peer-reviewed and published?? The fact is, it is not easy, as serious objectors will find out.
Our results have passed the gauntlet of peer-review (including in this case, review at BYU consistent with the fact that there are two authors from BYU).
We say that this paper has the "imprimatur of peer-review". That is a significant breakthrough. You cannot say that of big-foot or Elvis sightings... We are now in a different world from such things, the world of the published scientific community. CAN YOU APPRECIATE THE DIFFERENCE? I hope so. And this is what has our opponents so worried IMO...
Source URL: http://911blogger.com/node/19780
Disclaimer
The government is incapable of being so organized as to orchestrate the 9/11 attacks. I can't call 311 and get a straight answer to find out when the godforsaken garbage gets picked up. And somehow government bureaucracy has the competence to carry out 9/11 without being found out? Hardy har har...
Um, they've been found out in the sense that informed opinion cannot accept their boxcutter fairy-tale.
A theory/hypothesis is not a fact.
"The government is incapable of being so organized as to orchestrate the 9/11 attacks. I can't call 311 and get a straight answer to find out when the godforsaken garbage gets picked up."
And where is the fact here? 311 is as full of "it" as 911. Drones still strike targets.
The failure to investigate is BULLSHIT.
The response to 911 is what bankrupted the USA.
This response was pre-ordained.
Chomsky calls it "MANUFACTURING CONSENT"
911 was allowed to take place so BUSH/CHENEY could have their wars. But NOBODY in government realized that the boy's with box cutters only having spent $10k, would do $100 Trillion damage to the US economy, and thereby destroying the USA.
In their mad zeal to have a war, as all presidents in history do, they inadvertently destroyed their country, ... who gives a fuck? I don't.
The failure to investigate is a crime on a par with the original murder of ~3000 innocents. No, not all were Americans. Hundreds were Pakistani. 1 was Israeli.
it's hard to accept, but it was more than allowed. the boys with box cutters were only small bit players. the crime was done by those who have benefitted. Chomsky either doesn't get it yet, or does, but can't say because it isn't mainstream, yet..
If you are saying that the US government allowed the attacks to happen you are certainly speaking of a conspiracy.
Did Chomsky really say the US government allowed 911 to take place? Is that your opinion?
"Chomsky calls it "MANUFACTURING CONSENT" 911 was allowed to take place so BUSH/CHENEY could have their wars"
You really quoting Chomsky there? He said that 9/11 was allowed to happen? Naww!
911 has been over investigated. Why keep wasting money investigating while in 2 minutes we knew who did it. They tried in 91 and failed. Then at the trial it was uncovered that Al Queda is the culprit. The terrorists told us then. Why do people still want to doubt what they admitted to planning and doing? Crazy, that's why.
Yeah, they called off the Airforce, left the Pentagon undefended, reported building 7 had collapsed before it collapsed. Very capable guys.
Show me one part of society that isn't dysfunctional. Just one.
Ummm, the US military makes errors, but overall, it's pretty formidable. Ditto the spy agencies. Ditto the cops. Just go to Liberty Plaza. They got their job done. One way they disarm us is to make themselves look way less competent than they are. No way, after two skyscrapers are hit by airplanes do you get all defense of the Pentagon stood down and no evacuation. That's a really bizzarro conspiracy fantasy.
Okay. Whatever. The US military kills American soldiers in friendly fire regularly. They just killed 26 Pakistanis by accident. Pakistan has nukes and is a Muslim country...not a good scenario. The cops with pepper spray will cause backlash for their organizations for years to come. All dysfunctional. ALL. Doctors amputate the wrong organs all the time. More people die from prescription interactions and overdoses than from all illegal drugs combined. Millions of cars are recalled because they are hazardous. Dunkin Donuts can't get the coffee right. Do I have to go on?
And yet millions of cars are on the road that don't explode, Dunkin stays in business. The story of the 24 Pakistani soldiers has yet to be fully told. Already though the Pakistani government is seeking a road to US good graces - this after the US killed 24 of their soldiers.
Pakistan seeks to mend relations with U.S.
Chris Brummitt, Associated Press
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/05/MNAR1M8I6O.DTL Muhammed Muheisen / AP Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani says new ties are being negotiated with the United States. IMAGES
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Obama sets campaign theme: Middle class at stake 12.06.11 Dow ends up 52 on hopes for wider bailout powers 12.06.11 Obama sees 'make or break' time for middle class 12.06.11 Lahore, Pakistan --
In an overture to Washington, Pakistan's prime minister said Monday that his country wants to repair relations with the United States that were pushed close to rupture since NATO air strikes killed 24 Pakistani troops last month.
Just how much of an error this was remains to be seen. Seems Washington may have lost little to nothing in the affair.
Glad to see that you sense that. Nonetheless, your argument doesn't support a conspiracy. Pakistan is afraid of being named Iraq. They also fear Arab spring. So with all those cars still on the road and me still shopping at Dunkin Donuts, that's all the proof we need that dysfunction is there and won't go away. We live with it just like we live with responses and reactions to 911 atrocities. A lot of people would rather believe that their opposition is some clandestine group with powerful ties and accomplishes everything they set out to do. Bullshit. Everyone falls on their face.
"Let's be careful what we sow because we will harvest"- Hillary Clinton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P5o9jJPLfU
How about making Paul Krugman and Joseph Stiglitz one of our leaders!
Stiglitz, maybe if he wanted to be. Krugman I think does want to be the leader, and I don't like that. Sorry a guy who says that rising food prices are not a sign of inflation but are "volatile" is a bit too limo for me.
I'm sorry, the "Nobel Prize" no longer means shit. didn't they hand one to Al Gore for his Chicken Little dance about the dreaded earths wabble? or was it man made glabal warming, whatever. and wait...
they also handed one to the Messiah, the ONE, the great Barack Obama for things he hasn't even done yet.
I do like to see credibility and I appreciate the effort, however the "Nobel Prize" has been tainted beyond repair.
Certainly the Noble PEACE prize is now a sad joke.
There is no such thing as the Noble Peace prize.
correct.
Where was Heinz?
I've gotta go for now. Keep the Turh at the top if you can.
I'll take care of that.
I have followed all of the stories of anthrax and plague simply because it is so lethal and prior to 9/11 there were several arrests where anthrax were found in suspects vehicles. After 9/11 the media never put two and two together with these prior arrests with the 9/11 tradegy.
The anthrax attacks have been linked to a scientist here in the States who had access to very lethal and highly refined strains of it that he is strongly suspected of mailing out to various sites right after the 9/11 attacks. Once the FBI started to close in on its investigation leading to this mentally unbalanced individual, the scientist committed suicide. All leads were pointed in his direction.
Did you bother to read what I said? These arrests occurred prior to 9/11 and anthrax was found in people's vehicles.
For the 4th time?
It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 - Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.
The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers. With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part: "The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States."
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I'm having a hard time proving the the US ever paid for the American Revolution, total cost of roughly 150 million. Was our first Constitution a bankruptcy pact?
Andrew Jackson paid back the French-then prevented THE BANK from renewing it's charter-fought the international banks his whole life. Yea, according to usvsusa.com all constitutions are bankruptcy compacts. Constitution is not a document from which our rights derive, is (just) the central document that says what government CAN'T do.
Ok, have you determined if the US bankrupted again in 1993? Maybe it was 1992.
I don't know about that...bankruptcy proceedings ongoing since 1933-bankrupt again? Curious what would that distinct redundancy show us-what leads you to focus there?
http://www.apfn.net/doc-100_bankruptcy.htm
All that other stuff we discussed involving the UK and several international agreements.
Great link-I posted it to your forum post also.
Traficant's statement, "we are now in chapter 11" could be interpreted simply as background for the rest of his statement-all of which is congressional record and an excellent review for people who are still getting their heads around the idea that as a "citizen of the U.S." we are literally traded as sureties by international banks (on the stock exchange, no less). Doubtless there was some massive spending bill in 1993 that triggered his speech.
Thanks for the bump
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gobbeldygook reply to a serious post.
Brush up on history-sounds crazy, but start at the beginning and you find out Frogwithwings concisely "nutshelled" 77years of history for you. The ommitted parts-the stuff they didn't bother telling you in school. Check this post for more details. Research.. http://occupywallst.org/forum/interesting-read-about-the-constitution-and-corpor/
Frog posted the same thing twice. Now I have made typos, but there's something odd. "The Federal Government exists today in name only" wow! Did it exist when they drafted my stupid ass for Vietnam?
A very questionable thing happened - no several questionable things happened- on Septer 11, 2001 that some of us think were significant. We're not satisfied with the explanations that have been served up. Put that in your 'Murkin Dream" and puff on it.
Well understood, and pardon my frustration re:dismissal of frogs post as "nonsense.. The point is, that these are symptoms you are pointing to(WWI, WWII, Nam, 9/11-dozens of other false flag attacks and ensuing wars to enrich bankers). I fully agree with you, that 9/11 was a coverup. Best overview of what happened on 9/11 as I've found is Chris Bollyns book "Solving 9/11" http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book and www.ae911truth.org is the no-nonsense group of over 1700 architects and engineers who have disproven the "official conspiracy story"
But until we all learn that these are SYMPTOMS of a more complex problem, we are all just blowing our noses. The cure is possible only when people discover how they are fooled-over and over again. That's in the omitted history Frog pointed out to you.
Both my grandfathers fought and suffered in WWII-yet another war created by the banksters. We are trained to be short sighted-break loose and take the long view of history. The links on this forum are invaluable as a beginning point. http://occupywallst.org/forum/interesting-read-about-the-constitution-and-corpor/ Best regards.
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Failure to Investigate 9/11 Has Bankrupted America
I really do hope you are banned for your clearly abusive conduct. Images blocked.
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I was just about to post this essay when I saw this thread. Good job!
Still on the Bush rag... How much longer is Bush going to be in office? I can't wait for a new president.
Glad he's out of office. Worst president in the history of the United States. And that is exactly what he was...a rag.
Obama is in my view a version of Bush.
131 comments on spew.
Such nonsense. It's still being investigated...non stop. It is ingrained in history. Everyone knows what happened. Murderers murdered innocent people. That's what they do.
Hello! Nonsense? Read it and weep. "Bruce Edwards Ivins, became a focus of investigation around April 4, 2005. Ivins was a scientist who worked at the government's biodefense labs at Fort Detrick in Frederick, Maryland. On April 11, 2007, Ivins was put under periodic surveillance and an FBI document stated that "Bruce Edwards Ivins is an extremely sensitive suspect in the 2001 anthrax attacks". On July 27, 2008, Ivins killed himself with an overdose of acetaminophen. On February 19, 2010, the FBI formally closed its investigation" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthrax_attacks
More conspiracy nonsense. It happened. It's over. Move on.
Who are the terrorists?
No need really to know who how or why. Yeah, right!
The arabs have rejoiced in 911 to the point of naming all their kids Osama after the attack. It is so obvious and so easy. Why do so many people still doubt the moon landing? I'll tell you why, its big and they won't give credit because anything that big just....can't be. We know ALL the facts.
"All their kids?" I know that Osama is a hero in many places. That explains nothing about what really happened.
Why do you need an explanation when every news service on the planet sees and told what happened. These guys are on tape. There is proof of flying lessons without landing lessons. Quite often 1 +1 = 2. Check into that.
You quite willfully ignore the facts. These flight school near dropouts did not call off the US Air-force, did not squash defending and evacuating the Pentagon, did not seed those three skyscrapers with explosives, did not stall and sabotage the official investigation. I'm about done responding to you.
Calling off the air force is completely understandable in a situation in which American civilians would be killed and this was a first in history. No one knew what to do at the time. There was no seeding of anything in the buildings. The burned slowly and melted. We all saw it. They would never be able to seed anything since the first attack in 91. The buildings were watched. The skies weren't. You were done before you started.
911 = Battle of Zenta = muslims
Debt = Savings. A gov doesn't have to pay debt back.
So what? I agree the people much less our childen and grandchildren have any obliogation to pay the debts rolled up for the bullshit wars that followed and were justified by 911 if investigation shows the actions to have been false flags. the stiff resistance to any real investigation, the destruction of evidence, the ridiculing of truth seekers, all lead me to beleive it was a false flag operation.
Of course it was. Join the group that is doing the most about it. I've done volunteer work for this group. They are excellent-help the cause. Www.ae911truth.org
I have a lot of respect for ae911truth, I'm not an architect or engineer.
You don't have to be an architect or engineer to join and/or support their group and/or sign their petition calling for an independant investigation of 9/11. Check it out again when you can www.ae911truth.org. Their latest video release called "Experts Speak Out-Explosive Evidence" is excellent.
thanks
Pat Curley of the Screw Loose Change blog writes:
I love that they got Lynn Margulis, National Medal of Science winner to tell us about the problems with NIST. She must have won her medal in structural engineering, right? Well, no, she won it for microbiology. Which, if we were talking about multiple prokaryotic organisms, would make her an expert. Unfortunately for her, we're discussing steel-framed skyscrapers, on which she's no more educated than your average cab driver.
We get the usual quote-mining of Danny Jowenko, RIP. The Troofers never mention that he debunked the supposed controlled demolition of the Twin Towers. First off, with the exception of her comment on the nano-thermite evidence, Margulis is speaking about something she knows plenty about; that good science requires evidence not be destroyed (which it certainly was) and an investigation to begin with the most likely hypothesis.
As David Ray Griffin writes in his book The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report About 9/11 Is Unscientific and False:
NIST wrote:
The challenge was to determine if a fire-induced floor system failure could occur in WTC 7 under any ordinary contents fire.
Why would NIST have assumed that this was "the challenge"? Why would NIST, already knowing that buildings such as WTC 7 can be brought down with explosives--and indeed that is the only way in which such buildings had ever been caused to collapse--have asked if a collapse caused by an ordinary building fire "could occur"?
...Physicist John Wyndham... wrote: "NIST's failure to seriously consider other causes besides fire for the building collapses strongly suggests government interference in a scientific process."
Speaking as NIST lead investigator, Shyam Sunder denied this charge in advance, saying: "We conducted our study with no preconceived notions about what happened" That claim is simply not credible, however, given NIST's refusal to begin with the most likely hypothesis... Furthermore, Griffin notes:
We also have the testimony of a former NIST employee who had held "a supervisory scientist position at the top civil service grade" until 2001, after which he worked as a part-time contractor until 2006. Although this man wishes to remain anonymous, for fear of possible retaliation, he is known to physicist Steven Jones, who has confirmed that he is indeed who he says he is... Speaking in particular about the implications of NIST's politicization for its work on 9/11-related issues, he wrote:
When I first heard of [9/11 truth] and how the NIST "scientists" involved in 911 seemed to act in very un-scientific ways, it was not at all surprising to me. By 2001, everyone in NIST leadership had been trained to pay close heed to political pressures. There was no chance that NIST people "investigating" the 911 situation could have been acting in the true spirit of scientific independence, nor could they have operated at all without careful consideration of political impact. Everything that came from the hired guns was by then routinely filtered through the front office, and assessed for political implications before release. As to Danny Jowenko, the reason he did not think the Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition was due to their unconventional nature, but as the website 911review.com has pointed out:
A demolition that is planned as part of a covert operation to fit a narrative of events that attributes the total destruction of the building to a different cause (such as a jetliner crash and consequent fires) has a very different set of requirements than a demolition that is planned to legally remove a building in an urban setting. And as 911blogger.com user "stallion4" has noted:
The towers weren't conventional demolitions. They were "top down" demolitions, which are rare in the professional demolition industry...
Building 7 was a classic demolition job -- bottom up -- the type of demolition that Danny Jowenko is qualified to give his professional opinion on. Despite claims to the contrary, Jowenko remained quite sure WTC 7 was a demolition. Perhaps the more conventional nature of WTC 7's demolition can be explained by evidence that indicates 10:45 a.m. was the originally planned demolition time.
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Nothing to investigate. The plan from the Bush cabal was simple. Let bin laden attack America. Use that attack to start the wars. Big money to be made. NeoCons don't believe that government can create jobs, but to them wars are the perfect way to make profits off the innocent and the gullible. It should remind you of something very similar that has happened in the past. Like around the 1930s in Germany. Remember that Bush went into American history as the one president who took the most vacation months off. He needed to be away from likely targets as much as possible. No coincidence that he was at an obscure little public school the day of the attacks on the WTC.
There's plenty to investigate, and not too late for justice.
Yes it is never ever too late for justice.
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Absolutely. There is no statute of limitations on murder or fraud. Prosecuting the murders of 9/11 is the key to unlocking 200 years of fraud. That's why there is so much at stake on both sides. Fierce resistance on all fronts.
I can understand OW activists not wanting to get pulled into a debate about 9/11. I can understand the idea that it is a diversion. I don't agree but it could be legitimate. The debunkers who spend so much time on this "distraction" and bump up these posts in this forum don't make sense to me.
There are more people actively disrupting and dividing the focus in these forums than legtimate concerned activists. The site and the movement were spawned by George Soros. Forgetting that is perilous.
Is this happening on the GA site? I understand there is another Occupy discussion site as well. The GA site seems to be more focused. This one seems to be for shooting the breeze about stuff that might or might not be tangentially related to occupy. Where is the evidence about Soros? There's a Wall Street guy named halper who was born in Brooklyn. He supposedly gave or lent to Lasn $20,000 seed money for the project. Halper is allegedly a Romney backer too. http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-do-moderators-not-block-anti-semitism-here/#comment-354493 [-] pinker 0 points 2 weeks ago Dig into some of the information about Lasn and the seed money from a Wall Street fat cat who gave 20,000 seed money to this cause. Also check out links between who owns large part of Twitter/Obvious Corporation and who lunches together. People are making money off this. Bank on it. Or Credit Union on it. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink [-] alouis (New York, NY) 2 points 2 weeks ago Interesting indeed. Sounds like his parents fled Estonia with the Germans before the advancing Red Army of WWII. The article he wrote though points to what is obvious. The neocon movement is heavily far disproportonately Jewish. On the left there is an argument about whether Israel dominates US middle east policy (if not more than that) Vs. The Chomsky/old left view that israel is but a tool of the USA. There happen to be people of Jewish origin on both sides of that argument. If the side of the argument that puts Israel in the dominant position re US middle east policy then certainly the neo cons have a lot to answer for regarding the Iraq war in particular as they were front and center in advocating for it. ↥like ↧dislike reply edit delete permalink [-] pinker 0 points 2 weeks ago Not questioning that so much as motives of the people who started this thing. Also the money that is being made. Corps that are private don't have to disclose finances. Orgs and public corps do. Not going public can hide a bunch of stuff. Twitter and its investors are definitely making boatloads off the revolutions around the world. There are some strange bedfellows here. ↥like ↧dislike reply permalink
All the evidence you could ever need. http://occupywallst.org/forum/interesting-read-about-the-constitution-and-corpor
Understand who he works for and then you are on the road to understanding why he wields over 1000 NGOs worldwide to topple goverenments in the name of democracy.
The terrorists entered flight school in Florida in July of 2000 while Clinton was president. Bush was not even the GOP nominee when the terrorists planned to bring down the building. Idiots.
However, once Bush came into office he and his administration ignored the warnings. "bin laden determined to attack". So it was on their watch as of January 2001. It was their responsibility to do something about it and they chose not to.
Bush tried but Clinton and Gore people took the W keys off all the keyboards as whining little liberals would do.
What does that have anything to do with the president's responsibility to protect the American people?
Here is why. The terrorists ENTERED a flight school in Florida on July 3, 2000 while Clinton was president. Then Bush wins the election as per the Electorial College. Gore knows he lost, prepares to give his concession speech when some one said there was hanging chads in voting machines that were to be cleaned and maintained by the democrats in that county. He decides to use that to refuse Bush. Bush and Clinton, as typical elections go, should have spent the next several months getting "BRIEFED" on all the important issues that the outgoing president gives to the new one. Important things like, MAJOR SECURITY ISSUES. Bush didnt get what he should have gotten. Then, the last day of Clinton, Gores people take all the "W"s off of computer keyboards. Call me silly, but it seems like Bush didnt get the important information that Clinton had,,,,,, including 19 terrorists that were being trained to fly. Well, thats about it.
So these whikey drinking stripper tipping islamic fanatics went to flight school. What has that got to do with the Pentagon not being defended while the nation was allegedly under attack, with all the questions about 911 that officials have dodged? Bill Clinton is of course a big defender of the official 911 narrative. I'd like to know what a real investigation might turn up about his role, if any.
If you google the 9/11 terrorists and flight school you will see that they hated liberal America while Clinton was president. They spent a couple of years preparing and getting the money they needed. Two entered flight school in Florida on July 3, 2000 while Clinton was president. To suggest that it was an inside job with Bush is nearly as stupid as it gets. He hadnt been nominated and for all the terrorist knew, Gore was going to be president.
Okay. At that point no one was aware of what the terrorists were up to. Just some creepy arabs taking flight lessons. All of this came up AFTER the attacks and the investigations had to backtrack to find out when the terrorists started their mission.
Gore was going to be president? Coulda fooled me...
I dont know what you implied with that return. Gore and Bush both ran for president knowing there was Electoral College and not popular vote rules. If you didnt agree to those rules you shouldnt be in the race.
There were no rules. Bush was determined to be president. Or in other words, Bush was determined to attack America.
A couple of things. Regadless of ANYTHING, the Electoral College vote was the legitmate test. In Florida the key was the "hanging chads" which was the highlight of the visible fight. The hanging chads were in a prominate democrat country. The person(s) responsible in that country was the party in control, democrats. Those voting machines were the responsibility of democrats. The maintance was the responsibility of democrats. Those machines had not been cleaned for three years of use. The company that sold those said they should have been cleaned after each election and had not been. Typical of democrats, they let the system go to hell that they were responsible for then blame someone else when it caused the problems. Finally, leading up to the election Bush was ahead in the polls. Add the Electorial college, failure of the democrats to take care of the voting machines and Bush ahead in the polls, BUSH WON.
It never ends man, the whole world is out to get these people. Anything you say is meaningless. The counter is just "they are in on it too" or "it was staged to be that way". They think their whole life is part of some plot to kill them, even if they're still alive. If 9/11 was an an inside job, politics would move in that direction. Everything would be for the purpose of exploiting it, and nations like Russia and China would be trying to expose it. Iran is hardly a credible source of information,
You said "Gore was going to be president" I didn't.
I didnt say I did. The terrorists must have. Bush was not the nominee yet.
"9/11 flight schools" drug running. Google Amanda Keller and Mohamed Atta.