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Forum Post: Study shows US entering dark age

Posted 1 year ago on Sept. 27, 2012, 2 a.m. EST by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Although the statisticians cannot explain the causes, the realities of the economic collapse have begun to be reflected in their research. A new study published in the August issue of Health Affairs notes that, after years of diminishing increases, life expectancies for the least educated Americans have fallen by a whopping four years between 1990 and 2008.

According to the New York Times article which reviewed the data, "the steepest declines were for white women without a high school diploma," who lost an average of five years of life (and are now below black women of similar education level), while white men without diplomas lost an average three years of life. Worldwide, the U.S. has fallen from 14th to 41st place since 1985. Among "developed nations, the U.S., which ranked 'in the middle of the pack'" in 1970, is now dead last.

Suicides have now overtaken auto fatalities as the number one cause of "accidental" deaths in the U.S., according to a study published Sept. 20 in the American Journal of Public Health, and reported in today's Daily Mail. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, between 2000 and 2009, the number of people who committed suicide in the U.S. has jumped a startling 71%, while deaths from auto accidents have dropped 25%. Even this number may be understated, researchers say, since "suicides are notoriously under-reported," and the study only accounted for suicides from "falls and poisonings" and did not include drug overdoses.

Filling out the picture of depressionary collapse in the U.S., is an article on "Obama's Hidden Bread Lines" on conservative website Noisy Room. "We are in a Depression," states author Theresa Monroe-Hamilton, but Obama has managed to avoid those incriminating visuals of 1930s "bread lines" by using technology. Today, food stamps (or SNAP, Supplimental Nutrition Assistance Program) uses plastic cards, similar to credit cards, to dispense payments, allowing both the user and Obama to avoid the shame that would otherwise accompany the now 47 million recipients on the program.

She concludes correctly, that "if we don't remove Obama from office, it will be fatal. Period."



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[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4020) 1 year ago

Hi Arturo,

There seems to be a trend towards property ownership diminishing in US. The elite will own much of the land, and the people will be serfs.

Food prices will continue to rise.

Stress leads to early death.

[-] 2 points by LeoYo (4830) 1 year ago

Meet the Largest Landowner in America

The media billionaire John Malone now owns 2.2 million acres, putting him ahead of his pal Ted Turner as the nation's No. 1 landlord.

By Jeff Hull | Fortune – 16 hours ago


[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Won't the fed res be the biggest property owner after the QE3 buyback?

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4020) 1 year ago

Good post Leo.

This trend is a problem. There will be lots of 'no trespass' signs, and 'sacrifice zones' for the people (for high rent).

Some recent talk about elite putting cash in land and water rights, before the cash-crash.

All very Medieval.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago


Probably so, unless things get so bad that a few people in leadership see light and make a change.

[+] -4 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

Property ownership comes with the responsibility of paying for it. Expanding home ownership to people who couldn't handle the responsibility wrecked our economy in 2008.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Having the right to loan money comes with a responsibility also. The people who own the banks abused that responsibility when they made loads more widely available.

They did this to make money, since more legitimate ways of making money have been gradually eliminated through the predations of the elite over the past fifty years.

Now, with even fewer income generating schemes available, they want to turn to war, world war, to continue their quest for elicit profits. Its part of the same cycle as the great depression and World War II.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4020) 1 year ago

Well Said

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago


[-] 2 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 1 year ago

I think the broader issue here is the rather rapid decline of Western Civilization. This brings progress, culture and art into the spotlight as key indicators of the direction of Western Society and begs the rather rhetorical questions:

What real societal progress has been made since 1980?

What is the charted course?

What are the grand plans?

What art defines our era?

What music defines our era?

What fashion defines our era?

What great works have been written?

-symptoms of decline.

I would say that we are a stagnant society, and so we drift along without purpose as a nation. In varying degrees, most in this country are numb, disengaged and narcissistic and are apathetic (lethargic) toward the idea that real work needs to be done to correct our nation's course.

We are propagandized by the much of the 4th estate ( http://blackagendareport.com/content/freedom-rider-propagandized-america ) ( http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/outfoxed-rupert-murdochs-war-on-journalism/ ) and relatively few of us seem to be concerned enough to act.

[-] 3 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (17688) 1 year ago

'TCN' : You need to edit and leave a space between your parenthesise and the first and last character of your links [see my links below] for them to work + thanx for your thought provocation.


What real societal progress has been made since 1980? ... The Inter-Web and Vaccination !

What is the charted course? ... Ask Bilderberg ( http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/index.php ) ; TLC ( http://www.trilateral.org/ ) 'et les autres' 'Rentier-Return' Seeking 0.01% Parasitic Oligarchs !

What are the grand plans? ... Ours ?! Socio-Economic, Political and Environmental Justice !

What art defines our era? ... The 'Art of Shameless Commercialisation and Corporatocracy' !

What music defines our era? ... Hip_Hop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebWk9pBXSso !

What fashion defines our era? .. Fashion of wearing other peoples names on all our clothes !

What great works have been written? ... inter alia, "The Algebra of Infinite Justice" - a wonderful essay by Arundhati Roy : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/sep/29/september11.afghanistan !


pax et lux ...

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 1 year ago

shadz66, thanks for those links, They well underscore the point.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck3 (34) 1 year ago

What real societal progress has been made since 1980?

z internetz

[-] 1 points by ThunderclapNewman (1083) from Nanty Glo, PA 1 year ago

They are a blessing and a curse. Access to a great deal of information and a detriment to interpersonal skillz :-)

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20417) 1 year ago

Great comment. A lot of food for thought there.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

You have a post that does exactly the opposite for Romney.

It provides an issue, presented by Lugar, one advocating against war, and closing with the insistence that Romney will be a good President if elected.

This article provides evidence of increasing rates of mortality among the poor, and then brings in the economy - blaming the President.

The economic crisis is not the President's fault - and had it been left to repelicans it would have been much much worse.

YOu are a right wing hack working for the repelican party.

And here you have lied.


On a side note -

Back in 1999 Surgeon General David Satcher issued The Surgeon General's Call to Action to Prevent Suicide - along with another report, Mental Health, which examined the mental health of the population of the country as a whole.

I cannot claim that his report fell afoul of the drug industry, or anyone else, for I have no proof. What is interesting, never the less, is the NYT reported on Dr. Satcher's campaign against suicide on July 29, 1999.

I believe the Burlington Free Press covered the issue the following day, along side reports of a shooting spree in Atlanta by a day trader, who killed 12 before committing suicide himself.


If we have been unsuccessful in the campaign to prevent suicide since Dr. Satcher issued his call in 1999, then I must conclude it is simply because we have not the political will to address the issue - for whatever reason.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I posted that article about Lugar to show that as the crisis gets worse, at least some Republicans are starting to realize some good ideas. As it continues to get worse, more republicans will probably start to do the same.

This happens some times in the case of war. Certain factions among the enemy will switch sides as they see the tide is turning, and as a result the opposing force will gain a victory.

If some people from the enemy's side want to switch over we should be prepared to welcome them into our camps, that is, if we want to win this one.

The economic crisis was not caused by Obama, but by the people whom he works for, that is, Wall Street. And he hasn't done anything to help it and has in fact made it worse.

If you support Obama or Romney, than you are a hack working for the financial oligarchy.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

And he hasn't done anything to help it and has in fact made it worse.

How's that?

and your assertion that posting a pro Romney ad and a con Obama ad are a bit thin.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

What has Obama done to improve the economy? I can see nothing.

Acts against the economy would include his efforts to shut down NASA. Aerospace was once a great industry employing white and blue collar workers in good paying jobs.

There are also his bank bail outs, which fed Wall Street at the expense of the nation.

That article was mostly an anti-war article, with a final sentence promoting Romney. I agree with the anti-war stance, not the Romney promotion.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

he kept gm afloat, and on the bank bailouts, See the Economoist

Mr Obama did what he could to ease those fears. As candidate and senator, he had backed the unpopular Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) cobbled together by Henry Paulson, George Bush’s treasury secretary. After the election he selected Tim Geithner, who had been instrumental to the Bush administration’s response to the crisis, as his own treasury secretary. The rest of his economic team—Larry Summers, who had been Bill Clinton’s treasury secretary; Peter Orszag, a fiscally conservative director of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO); and Christina Romer, a highly regarded macroeconomist—were similarly reassuring.

Resolving a systemic financial crisis requires recapitalising weak financial institutions and moving their bad loans from the private to the public sector. Under Mr Bush, the government injected cash into the banks. But doubts about lenders’ ability to survive a worsening recession persisted. Mr Obama faced calls to nationalise the weakened banks and force them to lend, or to let them fail. Mr Summers and Mr Geithner reckoned either step would shatter confidence in the financial system, and instead hit upon a series of “stress tests” to determine which banks had enough capital. Those that failed could either raise more capital privately or get it from TARP.

The first reaction was one of dismay—stocks tanked. Pundits predicted Mr Geithner would soon be gone. But the tests proved tough and transparent enough to persuade investors that the banking system had nothing nasty left to hide. Banks were forced to raise hundreds of billions of dollars of equity. Bank-capital ratios now exceed pre-crisis levels and most of their TARP money has been repaid at a profit to the government. Europe’s stress tests were laxer, and some banks that passed have subsequently had to be bailed out.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Did you know "The Economist" is the main propaganda outlet for the global financial oligarchy, that is, the guys who own Wall Street and the City of London financial district? They, of course, support Obama, because he works for them.

If Obama really wanted to revive the real economy, he would have done Glass Steagall by now. FDR did an entire restructuring of the banking system in the first few weeks of his presidency.

He also would already have done something like the New Deal, a massive public works program, to create millions of jobs while rebuilding our defunct national infrastructure.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

He would do that all by himself - without any input from Congress . . . .

right . . . sure he would . . . .

doesn't seem to be anything on SourceWatch re: economist.com - but they do seem to be willing to carry a spot on James Hansen and Global Warming

I think you are a conse(R)vative in OWS clothing.

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

FDR did those things because he was a leader. He came from the class of the financial oligarchy, and had to fight against his own class to accomplish what he did.

Obama hasn't lifted a finger to do the same. He has actually opposed Glass Steagall, saying that he would veto it, if it made its way through congress to his desk. Just that tells me clearly he is working for the enemy.

Just because I'm against Obama doesn't mean I'm a republican. I guarantee you, I hate Romney. I'm a conservative democrat, like FDR or JFK.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I don't believe you can show that the President has taken a position on Glass Steagall - members of his administration have, and that may be due to the influence of Wall Street on Congress.

Senate Democratic leaders have shown little appetite for taking on Wall Street before Election Day, despite urging by one of their star recruits, Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren.

Warren has called on Congress to resurrect the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act, which established a firewall between investment banks that traditionally specialized in speculative trades and commercial banks that historically earned money primarily from lending.

If Warren, an outspoken critic of Washington’s oversight of the financial services industry, wins in November, it could put her on a collision course with Senate leaders.

Senate Democratic leaders have carefully avoided a major confrontation with Wall Street this year, when millions of dollars are already flowing to Republican-allied super-PACs from anonymous donors.

The HIll - Senate Democrats not with Warren on reinstating Glass-Steagall bank act


FDR and JFK were not conservatives - in fact he campaigned against conservative dems in 1938.

You actually look like a worm on a hook to me.

[-] 0 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Obama hasn't taken a position eh? But members of his administration have? And I suppose there is nothing he can do about that. How convenient for him:

Political thugs from the Obama campaign and DNC intervened to force the withdrawal of a Glass-Steagall amendment to the Democratic Party Platform at the final Platform Committee meeting in Detroit Saturday. As of 5 PM Friday, an amendment had been filed, calling for the Party Platform to include an endorsement of HR 1489, reinstating Glass-Steagall. At 7 AM Saturday morning, after an all-night arm-twisting of the delegate who introduced the amendment, it was withdrawn. However, several other delegates had attempted to introduce the identical resolution and were told that it was unnecessary because the amendment was already filed before the deadline.


FDR fought against the entire class of financial oligarchs, to which he himself belonged, to do what he did, and Obama can't even manage his own administration to do the same? And you want to talk about worms?

FDR and JFK were conservatives in the sense that they believed in the principles established by the founding forefathers of America, as opposed to many in the anti-American socialist/environmentalist new left camps of today.

They believed that economic/industrial/scientific development were the keys for America to maintain its independence, prosperity and leadership in the world.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Your guy, Obama, should have been putting all his effort towards passing Glass Steagall since he was president. Nothing else much matters more. He's guilty of gross, criminal negligence, if nothing more, just for that.

Passing Glass Steagall would allow us to recover economically, and put an end to all the money being used to finance wars, which could now lead to nuclear WWIII. But Obama and the establishment has all you people in a trance as if it really doesn't matter.

Why would I care if a lunatic thinks I should be in a straight jacket?

[-] 3 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

This is just more anti Obama partisan campaign attacks. I know you are campaigning for Larouche so it is easy to disregard these inaccurate, unfair campaign talking points.

We got some watered down (by repubs) fin reform that repubs have promised to repeal and dems will strengthen.

Glass Steagal needs to be reinstated. WE must protest for that.

To expect pols to do everything without large progressive protest movement pressuring for real change is not rational.

And it betrays an entitlement mentality, and a lazy approach to governance.

It's up to us to force real change.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Larouche is 90, there is no way he is going to run for anything.

FDR did it all without a big protest movement, that doesn't mean we shouldn't protest, but there is no excuse for Obama's criminal negligence as a president.

Expecting sanity from the president is not mental laziness.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

"criminal negligence"? extreme, & just more anti Obama partisan campaign attacks.

FDR absolutely had the people behind him to use against big business/conservatives as he pushed through pgms to help the 99%.

This Pres has faced the deepest, most massiveresistance from mthe 1% plutocrats in modern history.

That Pres Obama achieved as much as he did in the face of this anti 99% coordinated obstruction, & without the people pressuring the oligarchs is nothing short of miraculous!

So, if we can chip aware at the extreme right wing each election cycle, elect more progressives as well, provide robust protests for real change to benefit the 99%, we can move forward.

Of course I propose these actions WHILE we work on the new system from the ground up, horizontally, with real direct democracy.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

With the house dominated by repelicans it doesn't seem likely to pass anytime soon. Therefore, why undercut the chances of either electing or reelecting those reps to Congress who are more disposed to reinstating Glass Steagall?

If the Senator is correct, then any campaign to curb the power of Wall Street must be carefully thought out. Lets get a Congress together who will pass such legislation and see what the President does with it.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

If Obama, were to do fireside chats like FDR did, and talk to the American people directly by TV or radio, he could create the pressure that would be necessary on any senator who needed to be brought around.

He'll never do it though, from what I can see, and our situation is really getting quite desperate. It seems that either war, or complete financial chaos are right around the corner.

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Pretty negative. I suppose we should all find a corner to crawl into.!

I guess you do not believe Pres Obama when he says that he intends to use the people in the coming term to pressure pols in passing the change we need.?

[-] 2 points by shooz (26615) 1 year ago

Just like it's been for my entire life time.

Duck & cover anyone?

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

And FDR had a Democratic Congress, not one willing to ruin America to keep him from getting a "win."

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Has Obama made any effort to support Glass Steagall or anything like the New Deal? No, this is inexcusable.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

No, and no, and that makes him about .01% as bad as Romney would be. You want another Alito, Scalia, or Thomas? Or two, or three or four. Or a Cheney....? A little perspective would be nice

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Good points, I despise Romney, but I can't see that Obama is much better, they both work for the same entity - Wall Street. I say impeach him and let Biden beat Romney.

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

There must be a little reality somewhere in Guandong prefecture. Don't get too far from it, (impeach him for which high crimes?) Not supporting Glass- Steagal? What are you smokin' son?

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I suppose you would have supported George Bush out of party loyalty as well, same thing. Here are a few items in the list of impeachable high crimes. But perhaps you don't want to face reality? You can always keep doing the ostrich routine:

After the terrorist attack that killed Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other US Diplomats, the White House began a campaign of lies to conceal the fact that they had prior warning of a potential terrorist attack in Benghazi. The executive did nothing to protect these diplomats, then knowingly misled the American citizenry that the attack was the result of a spontaneous protest instead of a heavily-armed terrorist assault.

Despite Threats, U.S. Cut Security in Libya Before Attacks http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/04/despite-threats-u-s-cut-security-in-libya-before-attacks.html

The U.S. Drone War in North Waziristan isn’t precise or surgical. It kills hundreds of innocents, including women, and atleast 176 children. The stress endured by civilian Pakistanis creates psychiatric disorders. This policy creates more terrorists more terrorists than it kills, ruins the lives of thousands of innocent people while killing hundreds of innocents. It is cowardly, immoral and illegal.

'Every Person Is Afraid of the Drones': The Strikes' Effect on Life in Pakistan http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/every-person-is-afraid-of-the-drones-the-strikes-effect-on-life-in-pakistan/262814/#

Along with the encirclement of Russia and China with strategic military upgrades and deployments throughout Eastern Europe and the Pacific, the United States under Barack Obama has escalated its committment to destablization in the Middle East in direct opposition to the efforts of Russia and China to stabilize their borders in the interest of their national security.

Medvedev Warns of ‘Full-Blown Wars’ http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120517/173506862.html

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

I have never been convicted of party loyalty, when I was a registered Repub, Dem, and/or independent. Well, I guess I pleaded guilty to independence. but if there were a pragmatic party I would probably have joined that.

The lesser of two evils may be evil, but in my weakness I will opt for it. You can have my serving of purity. I can deplore evil and stupidity and I do, and still chose it over what I judge to be qualitatively worse without apology. In the face of the real consequences I suspect would would do so as well, but you are welcome to protest otherwise.

[-] 1 points by JackTG (-194) 1 year ago

I heard "The Economist" was owned by members of the Illuminati, the most devious Global Elitists in existence today.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

You probably heard right.

[-] 0 points by JackTG (-194) 1 year ago

I have an aunt whose in the Illuminati. I went to one of their meetings. Scary stuff!

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Tell us more.

[-] -1 points by podman73 (-652) 1 year ago

As opposed to the left wing hacks? I think the hack comp. is a good thing, then only the best hacks will rise to the top giving us a choice of which hack to agree with. Free market hacking "what a country"!

[-] 1 points by brightonsage (4494) 1 year ago

Sea water has flooded the basement. Fire the plumber!

[-] 1 points by agkaiser (1299) from Fredericksburg, TX 1 year ago

What's the life expectancy drop for the uninsured? What for the poor who qualify for the 2nd rate care offered through Medicaid? How much overlap with the undereducated? How much is the statistic made more acceptable by picking education instead of income as the indicator?

[-] 1 points by engineer4 (272) 1 year ago

How is suicide listed as "accidental death" ? There is no accident is suicide.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1170) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

OWS has taken control of the language that is the product of the right. The left has no language now to write the narrative. The dance is over. Unneccesary drama is no longer needed.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

The CorpoRATS are right on schedule in destroying the middle class. Can't have empowered citizens standing up to their corpoRAT might.

See corpoRAT rape of Africa, it's coming here. Fracking, mountaintop removal, Gulf BP spill -- we don't have far to go.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1170) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

It has nothing to do with Obama's policies. It might have more to do with an uncertain future. What does 'political order' mean? Obama doesn't scare me but political science does.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Everyone forgets that the "Dark Ages" came after Rome fell, which was the greatest empire the world had seen at the time.

The people simply want to watch TV and eat junk food. I would prefer that the food stamp program was all switched to WIC, which only allows for essentials to be bought. Watching people buy nothing but soda and potatoe chips with EBT is very disturbing.

Of course the entire congress is sold out, so Im sure the food companies would let that sensible option even into the national conversation.,

[-] 2 points by freewriterguy (882) 1 year ago

who cares if poor people eat junk food, our government is consuming our production by setting themselves in power and paying themselves hundreds of thousands a year pay checks. We should cap all government pay to 60k! (Including the president)

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (4830) 1 year ago

By what criteria is Rome considered the greatest empire the world had seen at the time?

[-] 1 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 1 year ago

well, they probably killed the most people. 'Great' does not connotate good or bad, just impact or size.

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (4830) 1 year ago

They were at constant war with Persia which was just as imperial in killing people. Then there's the Kharavela and Gupta Empires of India and the Han Dynasty of China. India is said to have had the largest economy on earth at the time so any attribution of 'the greatest' for Rome would have to exclude the aspect of economy.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4020) 1 year ago

good post

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Its too bad I have to spend so much time straightening out the misinformation that goes on here that links just about anyone out the D party to Warmongering, Deficit Upping Greedy Pigs (of which the D party is also a part of).

Label, Marginalize and Shove in a corner. Dont let each man stand on his own beliefs. We MUST label and group. Everyone. That is literally how the establishment keeps control on everyone and its happening right here at the very spot that is suppose to be against all that shit.


[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

I don't believe America ever left the Dark Ages in reality. There has always been a barbaric undertone of rulership on these shores, as its written ideals haven't been all that impressive for all diverse groups or without underlying dictator(s) rulership and tone.

"According to the New York Times article which reviewed the data, "the steepest declines were for white women without a high school diploma," who lost an average of five years of life (and are now below black women of similar education level), while white men without diplomas lost an average three years of life. Worldwide, the U.S. has fallen from 14th to 41st place since 1985. Among "developed nations, the U.S., which ranked 'in the middle of the pack'" in 1970, is now dead last."

Enlightened people on these shores have always been fighting to get out of the Dark Ages while the rulers cringe at the thought. So, if one looks at the history of this country and what particular groups of individuals are trying to restore here... In Reality....Obama is not the problem. It is the "slave mentality" that rulership want to continue to impress upon the masses...and the slave mentality that the masses apathetically accept.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

You have a point, but there also is a point to saying that we did once have better times in America too.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

Depends on which "WE" you are referring to my friend.....

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

By we, I mean the 99%

[-] -1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

Get real...I doubt that seriously...

The 99% have been living in a dream world which originated off the blood, sweat and tears of those who have gone before them.

This nightmare is of the 99% own creation... Many never did and still don't have the opportunities the 99% enjoyed!

I don't live in Disneyland son, this is all from the boomerang effect. No more and no less..

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Look pops, I ain't whistlin' dixy here. 'merica was once a great land were all the people were happy and free, nobody had to work and everything was just givin' to us, and that's the way it should be.

Or... America was once great for the rich white man, but everybody else, women and minorities had a rotten time and were treated like dirt.

Or... There were times when things were better for most people, they may not have been perfect, but more than anywhere else in the world, people could own their own homes, earn a decent living and educate their children.

(I'm sorry, but when you get all self-righteous like that, and call me "son", its hard to take you seriously).

[-] -1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

It is what it is...

Is this the "we" you are talking about? http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchstats.html Does that look as if self-righteousness is a trait I want to demonstrate? Be for real.....son! You are in a different time warp and could never understand the damage this country has perpetuated against its own inhabitants, let alone the world! We are all in a clean up mode!

There is a whole segment of society that has imploded from what was placed upon them and what they fail to understand is how it affected all of us mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, politically etc, etc. etc. I repeat... ALL OF US!
No matter how much you all hide this in the closet, many nations have suffered and been destroyed to get America where it is and was in the eyes of the delusional such as yourself.

I doubt seriously, once again, that these as well as other diverse cultures here on these shores can truly identify with the alleged "WE" you are referring to... Conditions of "slave mentality" still exist here today on both sides of the fence... No one disclaims they are American, and continue to stand up for what is right here. Yet, the masses failed to step up to the plate to help "those Americans" And now, you all want to preach about some GD* UTOPIA that allegedly existed here in the past and that our President has taken us back to the dark ages? Once again.... I DOUBT THAT SERIOUSLY and bull shyt!

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Sure does look like self-righteousness is what you want to demonstrate. Everybody fails to understand, except you of course. If I say there were times that were better, than you see that as me preaching a utopia. Sounds to me like you hate and despise the 99%. Sounds like you are just dissatisfied with your own life and want to blame it on every one else.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago


I thought it sounded like he was attempting to point out that it is obviously you who are stuck in the dark ages . . . .

How about a little Conse(R)vative History

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

We are all living in a dark age these days.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

well yeah

you can thank conse(R)vatives and the fossil fuel industry . . . .

consider carefully

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I'm pro nuclear energy, not fossil fuels.

[-] 2 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

well that's a great idea - not that we have any idea what to do with the waste it produces . . .

Let alone the problems encountered when nuclear facilities are designed with a given life span and run by private sector interests whose natural inclination is to delay the expense of decommissioning by as many decades as possible . . .

It's fucking insane - to presume that the private sector can manage an industry like that of nuclear, where the margin of error for every single minute of operation is ZERO and the expense of decommissioning runs in the hundreds of millions of dollars . . . .




[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Some day we will run out of fossil fuels, that's for sure. If we don't have something to replace them with by then, we'll be in deep trouble. Solar and wind are to intermittent to run a power grid, not dense enough to provide fuel for transportation.

Nuclear energy should be a public utility. It has some problems, but we should think in terms of solving those problems.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

Intermittency can be solved by stored hydro. Portugal has managed to get to 52% renewables (28% increase in just 5 years) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Portugal

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20426) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

the sun is the most abundant natural resource we have - and it lends itself very well to decentralization of power production.

Decentralization of power production is a necessity if civilization is to have any hope of surviving the upheaval we can expect within the course of the next one hundred years.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

O au contraire, mon frere, don't see where you had time to dwell on those pictures...by your quick to respond nonsense reply. What are you afraid of?

Remember the old saying.....Free your mind and your ass will follow? I've done that.... Remember the old saying.....The truth will set you free? I can concur... Remember the old saying....He who forgets the past, is destined to relive it? Well. here you all are!

Now, on that note, I am just one humble individual, placed here to let you all know.....I have no hatred in my heart, no jealousy, no malice or evil intentions...Yet, my love for humanity...in its highest sense...overwhelms me sometimes.. Therefore, I must let you know that.....if you think the 99% got to where they are from some wonderful forethought for our human condition with manipulations by the racist rulers and politicians, Corporate bigoted elitest world and it's backers (like you)....then.... YOU'RE ALL FULL OF SHYT

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

No jealousy? No hatred? Yet you say all of us are full of it?

You're obviously talking a bunch of nonsense, so its not surprising that you would not receive much of a welcome here.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

Are you the official welcome wagon here?
Do I seem to express any need to be welcomed here? Who in the hell are you? Do you actually think I give a damn?

The truth has nothing to do with my feelings....Separate the two and you might understand where I'm coming from....

The truth is....you all ARE full of shyt with your bigotry and narrow minds, and the whole of humanity does not depend upon your opinions in order to thrive. Stop trying to get a mental challenge going with me son...you won't win because you don't have enough insight, inspiration, or integrity to do so.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Thanks for continuing to prove my point.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

And you are again?

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Quite right, good day to you.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

You can call me "arturo".

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

Good, now let's call a truce Arturo....

I have nothing to gain or lose by arguing facts with anyone. It is what it is.... Take care...

[-] 0 points by freewriterguy (882) 1 year ago

well romney says he wants to do away with tax cuts and effectively raise taxes on the middle class. The solution is to cap all government workers pay to 60K, not let them continue to make hundreds of thousands a year salary while we try to live off $30-40k!

[-] 1 points by DemandTheGoodLifeDotCom (3213) from New York, NY 1 year ago

So your solution is for everyone to be broke? lol

Isn't a better strategy to raise private worker income?

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 1 year ago

government workers yes should be broke, especially because we are duh

[-] 1 points by DemandTheGoodLifeDotCom (3213) from New York, NY 1 year ago

OK, you can push for a society where everyone is broke.

I will push for a society where everyone is wealthy like in this post.

Most people prefer to be wealthy, not broke.

[-] -1 points by thoreau42 (595) 1 year ago

who said anything about Romney? If Obama is a miserable President, that doesn't make Romney a good choice. Romney is terrible. Obama is terrible. A month from now, in the general election, the voting population is going to put their head between their legs and kiss thier....

unless you don't vote.

[-] -1 points by stevebol (1170) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

The plan seems to be- give them food stamps and keep the military out of the country. This seems very 'roman' to me. What a damn shame.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1170) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Not that I'm against food stamps, I'm very much for them.

[-] -1 points by DemandTheGoodLifeDotCom (3213) from New York, NY 1 year ago

What's the story with LaRouche's take on music. Doesn't he think that a certain kind of music has special powers or something to that effect?

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

He thinks classical music makes people more creative and intelligent. Some of the great physicists, like Einstein, were good classical musicians as well. There is some research that substantiates this, you can look up the "Mozart effect".

Rock music is thought to damage intelligence. Popular music got started in the US after the civil war freed the blacks, and some of them began making remarkable progress in classical music.

The elites felt that this should not be allowed, so they began financing the black musicians who were drug addicts or worked in whore houses with big money. They wanted to make blacks think that this was the sort of life they should aspire to - intoxication, wild sex, loud, simplistic music.

With Elvis Presley, the whole process was transferred to whites. The Beatles brought an additional dose of hallucinogenic drugs to the masses. They were supposedly financed by MI6, to start a new "opium war" against the US.

Consider the role model that rock musicians have provided historically, intoxication, narcissism, not exactly a foundation for a functional life.

[-] 1 points by Freedom2100 (25) 1 year ago

I do agree that historians will one day look back at our time as a mini dark age(as noted in several related posts) for a variety of reasons: the decline of democratic government (and democracy, in general), the economy/severe wealth inequality, destruction of eco-systems, pervasive control of the masses through the military-industrial complex, as well as dumb-down pop culture (as noted here).

Music works best both on a collective and individual basis when the music experience as an experience is felt in all parts of the mind and body. I'm not sure I completely agree with what type of music venues (i.e., Rock) led us down the road to the "dark ages" question posed in the forum. There are some forms of Rock (such as Heavy Metal) that I can see as being the case here, however, the 1960's psychedelic era is generally looked at as a high point in this genre, even among many who otherwise eschew Rock for other types of music, such as Jazz.

Where popular music took a REAL turn to shallowness and pacification of the masses was the incipient rise of Disco in the 1970's not only as music form, but also as a culture appealing to the lowest common denominator.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I agree with much of what you say, but consider the proposition that the psychedelic movement was a kind of covert drug war, similar to the more overt opium wars with China, and was intended to pacify and confuse the American people by initiating them into psychedelic drug use.

Depending on what happens next, the darkness of our times may escalate from mini- to maximum. For example, if a war in the middle east were to escalate to a global nuclear war, between the US, Russia and China, we may be reduced to medieval or perhaps even stone age conditions.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

Yeh, Yeh, and cocaine was a readily available substance in most of the beverages "back in the day"! (beginnings of Coca Cola-which is vehemently denied now) offered by doctors in their offices, and snuffed by "genteel" ladies, who seemed to always suffer from some male diagnosed female malady. http://www.oddee.com/item_96498.aspx Perhaps it started then....."we may be reduced to medieval or perhaps even stone age conditions" Who knows......Go figure...

Truly, I already knew why each generation in this country acted insane. A heritage of drugged up DNA

[-] 1 points by LeoYo (4830) 1 year ago

It would be better to actually investigate the history of American popular music than to rely upon some singular source that is uncommitted to the subject.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I suppose it would be better if one had the time, inclination, and the reason for doing further investigation.

I will say that my source is dedicated to the subject of classical music, in that it provides musical education to a group of political activists, and continually researches the theory of music and how it relates to creativity in a wider sense.

[-] 0 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

Took it....bored out of my skull!

No soul!

[-] -3 points by GirlSat (-3) 1 year ago

Vote Rep in Nov

[+] -5 points by HeatherL (-30) 1 year ago

This is what happens when you put an incompetent in the drivers seat (Obama) Worst turmoil US has been in since the 30's

[-] 1 points by Neuwurldodr (744) 1 year ago

Wow....so who flew the planes on 911?

Who dropped the bombs on Pearl Harbor?

Who got Hitler on the throne and supported him?

Methinks thou art 'COLOR BLIND' ....and just a tad bit IGNORANT! get my drift?

[-] 1 points by gsw (2727) 1 year ago

You wanted to keep Bush?

Even Bush didn't seem to want himself, back then in 2008.

Sure health will decline along with poor economy.

Send in Rocky Anderson to clean up government. http://Www.voterocky.org/healthcare_solution