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Forum Post: St. Louis Is Burning, What American City Is Next?

Posted 1 month ago on Aug. 11, 2014, 2:19 p.m. EST by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The people have had enough, I predict the riots and looting in St. Louis are only just beginning. For every injustice people will rise up and fight. They can RESIST, and they will. Those that say they are destroying their communities, are they really destroying their communities, or are they destroying their corporate enemies that extract more than they will ever put in and their security aka the police? I hope everytime the police kill an unarmed man people rise up and destroy the corporate overlords and their lackey security team.

269 Comments

269 Comments


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[-] 7 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

''Two-thirds of American households are unable to raise $400 cash without selling possessions or borrowing from family and friends.'' from :

''On January 6, 2004, Paul Craig Roberts and US Senator Charles Schumer published a jointly written article on the op-ed page of the New York Times titled “Second Thoughts on Free Trade.” :

''The article pointed out that the US had entered a new economic era in which American workers face “direct global competition at almost every job level–from the machinist to the software engineer to the Wall Street analyst. Any worker whose job does not require daily face-to-face interaction is now in jeopardy of being replaced by a lower-paid equally skilled worker thousands of miles away. American jobs are being lost not to competition from foreign companies, but to multinational corporations that are cutting costs by shifting operations to low-wage countries.” Roberts and Schumer challenged the correctness of economists’ views that jobs off-shoring was merely the operation of mutually beneficial free trade, about which no concerns were warranted.

''The challenge to what was regarded as “free trade globalism” from the unusual combination of a Reagan Assistant Treasury Secretary and a liberal Democrat New York Senator caused a sensation. The liberal think-tank in Washington, the Brookings Institution, organized a Washington conference for Roberts and Schumer to explain, or perhaps it was to defend, their heretical position. The conference was televised live by C-Span, which rebroadcast the conference on a number of occasions.

''Roberts and Schumer dominated the conference, and when it dawned on the audience of Washington policymakers and economists that something might actually be wrong with the off-shoring policy, in response to a question about the consequences for the US of jobs off-shoring, Roberts said: “In 20 years the US will be a Third World country.”

''In the ten years since Roberts and Schumer sounded the alarm, the US has become a country in which the norm for new jobs has become lowly paid part-time employment in domestic non-tradable services. Two-thirds of the population is living on the edge unable to raise $400 cash. The savings of the population are being drawn down to support life. Corporations are borrowing money not to invest for the future but to buy back their own stocks, thus pushing up share prices, CEO bonuses, and corporate debt. The growth in the income and wealth of the one percent comes from looting, not from productive economic activity. - This is the profile of a Third World country.''

~

The reason I append this here Nev1 is that it dovetails with the key points of your rt.com link, which I recommend to all readers, in order to get why the people of Ferguson have reached such a fk it, let's burn and rage and tear it up moment. The real looting is done by The 0.01% Parasite Class here ffs !!!

People are already pushed to the edge economically, socially, politically. psychologically and in every other which way that you can say or imagine. Then homicidal thug cops start killing folk for next to no reason & here cf. the recent murder by cop - of the guy in Staten Island :

what you have is the powder keg AND the spark. People pontificating on what poor folk at the receiving end of myriad injustices do when cops murder one of their own yet again with impunity, is just so much blah-blah-baloney & semi-disguised racist b-s. I'm with qm's OP & probably you & most of The 99% on this matter - and so please try to finally calmly consider :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...

[-] 4 points by ButtonHGwinnett (44) 1 month ago

What are they teaching political scientists in the USA? How to win elections? The concentration of wealth by the1% was predictable.

“Consider, for example, Marx’s prediction of how the inherent conflict between capital and labor would manifest itself. As he wrote in Das Kapital , companies’ pursuit of profits and productivity would naturally lead them to need fewer and fewer workers, creating an ‘industrial reserve army’ of the poor and unemployed: ‘Accumulation of wealth at one pole is, therefore, at the same time accumulation of misery’.”

Marx predicted that the development of capitalism would lead inexorably to the concentration of capital, an immense accumulation of wealth on the one hand and an equal accumulation of poverty, misery and unbearable toil at the other end of the social spectrum. For decades this idea was rubbished by the bourgeois economists and university sociologists who insisted that society was becoming ever more egalitarian, that everyone was now becoming middle class. Now all these illusions have been dissolved.

http://www.marxist.com/marx-was-right.htm

Ronald Reagan’s perceived victory over Communism flies in the face of the People’s Republic of China’s economic growth since 1980.

China The New Superpower?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBfMxE2irpo

Is China's Fast-Growing Economy Headed for a Crash?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQui-B1UhKk

In1867 Karl Marx proposed that the motivating force of capitalism is in the exploitation of labor, whose unpaid work is the ultimate source of profit and surplus value. The employer can claim right to the profits (new output value), because he or she owns the productive capital assets (means of production), which are legally protected by the capitalist state through property rights. In producing capital (money) rather than commodities (goods and services), the workers continually reproduce the economic conditions by which they labor.

The flaws of capitalism had been understood (and understated) since the Civil War. Is it possible that no American Presidents or political leaders have read the Communist Manifesto-Das Kapital? What else explains a 40-year Cold War, Korean War that has not been formerly concluded, preference for unorganized labor, outsourcing, off-shoring, globalization and the collapse of the American middleclass?

[-] 8 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

What's going on in Ferguson, MO is a function of a Crapitalism that doesn't really get scrutinised as the teaching of political science in The US is heavily biased towards the Neoliberal 'Washington Consensus' Chicago School Supply-Side (Pseudo)Free Marketism ; The Straussian 'feed 'em shit & keep 'em in the dark' perception management ; Austerity for The 99% at home ; Empire for The 0.01% Parasite Class & using the 1% lackeys, as the instruments of mass oppression and the privatisation of all profits and the socialisation of losses. Thanx for your comment & in compliment, I append : http://marxists.org/ and ...

''While many judge the protestors' response to Michael Brown's death, it’s clear there is an emphasis on the riot itself - the crimes against property as opposed to the fact that a life has been unjustly taken. There is something to be said about a society that values material goods more than life itself.''

  • "A riot is the language of the unheard." - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

e tenebris, lux ...

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

if only we lived in a an economy that was based on product instead of competition

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

$400----Really is Shocking

[-] 2 points by din365 (36) 1 month ago

I agreed with the part where businesses are sending work overseas,which has lead to the deindustrialization of not only the united states, but Eastern Canada as well. If it wasn't for jobs in the energy sector in Canada(specifically Saskatchewan Alberta's oilfields), Canada would have been screwed!

I recently went back to my hometown in Ontario for a month, and it shows the town itself is flat broke, and the people in it reflect that,too. When I was a kid, My hometown had 12 factories in and around it, and apparently more before I was born, and I slowly watched as the factories closed and the town's economy shrivel up. Peterborough got the worst of it. They're now looking at 14% unemployment rate and a stupidly low participation rate.

Why that happened, is because there's literally no incentive for businesses to stay and invest, and the ones that do stay are exploiting everybody for cheap labor(there are people working in factories only getting minimum wage WITH a union), and they can get away with it, because they just spell it out that they can pack it up,close it's doors, and move elsewhere like other factories have done, and what remaining factories are now doing.

It doesn't help that there's a corrupt government at the helm that's spending taxpayer's money like it grew on trees and talk about "revenue tools", which is another way of saying taxes, and basically cornhole the taxpayer some more. I'm fed up,too. as a canadian, I think it's absolute bs i had to move to the other side of the country, and now find out that even Canadians are losing jobs there because of company greed by (now illegally) exploiting temp foreign workers. If anybody talks about the later, then they're screamed down as a racist. I wasn't aware speaking up against 1% abuse was racist nowadays, because the ones they're exploiting happens to be from another country.

The question is what are we going to do about it? From what I've seen, everybody is just going to re-elect the same old, NOTHING WILL CHANGE! Saskatchewan figured that out, booted the NDP and elected an entirelyt new grassroots saskatchewan party that's just continues to grow, and do wha's best for saskatchewan. it shows, as they were the only province with a balanced book. If you paid attention to Alberta, the governing party has already been through two premiers after they're caught giving themselves lavish raises and spending our money like a drunken sailor. Now, it looks like the wildrose party, Alberta's grassroot partys, is polled to turf the PC's out of their 43 year reign for a majority government. It is possible to get these 1% enablers and thieves out, but the people have got to want it, and not be afraid to check that third or 4th choice and get it out of their head that such choices are a wasted vote. As far as I'm concerned, a wasted vote is a vote for thesame parties that scew the people over.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Re. Canada - there are real reasons for both concern and anxiety. Harper is just another Neoliberal, Bankster's stooge & many thanx for a very interesting comment, in compliment of which I append fyi :

You make good points din365 but the worry remains : Canada 2050 = Austria 1938 = "Anschluss" !!!

Finally, your ''look at Vancouver after a stanley cup loss.'' point is really quite relevant here too, imho.

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

there are only so many jobs in the world

is everybody getting food and shelter ?

[-] 7 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Have you seen the state of US infrastructure ?! You really don't ever want to compare it to Europe's - trust me !! There are as many jobs as we would wish to create in infrastructure renewal, clean-green-tech, localised power generation and food growing and in real non-profit social and health care ... IF the 'Hoover Up Crapitalism' of The 0.01% Parasite / Bankster Class & their 1% lackeys could be overturned and thAt is what O.W.S. is actually all about, right !!!

fiat lux ...

[-] 3 points by gsw (2694) 1 month ago

Appreciating the open source greenhouse improvement greatly. Thanks for passing this one along to us! Worth seeing anyone who enjoys better food

EDIT ..... And from first article, this just doesn't make any sense, especially when the feds so want to regulate trade among states so much "Track trade authority. Fast Track means that Congress would give up its constitutional responsibility “to regulate commerce between nations"

[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

The so-called "market" - which is actually a club of super-rich men who distort and destroy everything of value to humanity that they touch, will be the death of us all and much quicker than through the very real effects of global warming, which is also greatly accelerated by the ghoulish, greedy rush to grow food for cars rather than for people. In such a murderous environment - manipulated purely for the profits of The Venal Corporate Oligarchs - neither trees nor us peasants stand a chance. The 99% need to reclaim control of our food chain from the Mega-Corporations. Also fyi :

fiat justitia ...

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

food for cars

lol

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Consider : ''Last Saturday in Ferguson, MO, 18 year old Michael Brown was shot multiple times and killed by a police officer even though his hands were in the air and he stated that he was unarmed. Two days later, 25 year old Ezell Ford was shot and killed following a routine stop. He was similarly unarmed and is reported by witnesses to have been complying with the officers’ demands.

''These come shortly after two other high profile cases: Eric Garner in New York and John Crawford in Ohio. According to a report by the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement, a person of color is killed every 28 hours by police, security guards or vigilantes.

''The community in Ferguson, MO was visibly traumatized by the shooting and by the facts that Brown’s body was left on the scene in full view of his neighbors for four hours and no medical treatment was sought. In fact, a nurse who requested permission to assess him was turned away. Vigils were swiftly organized as well as peaceful marches to the police department to demand accountability.

''Instead of being met with support and space to grieve which would have been appropriate, the St. Louis County Police brought out heavily armed officers in military uniform, tank-like vehicles and assaulted the crowd with tear gas and rubber bullets.

''The situation escalated on Wednesday night when police were more aggressive. They cleared the protest with tear gas, rubber bullets and sound cannons, shut the media down and dragged people, including a local alderman and his staff, from their cars and arrested them.'' from :

fiat pax ...

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

Have you seen the state of US infrastructure ?

I still drink from the water fountains

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

''As the crisis of austerity deepens, forcing workers and the public to swallow the costs of the global financial meltdown, the need for the radical imagination is more urgent than ever. But what is it, actually? How can we understand the radical imagination as more than a hollow slogan? How can it be a critical tool for building movements to reclaim our world from a renegade form of capitalism rooted in sexism, racism, homophobia, mass incarceration, the illegalization of migrants and the destruction of the earth?'' from :

Drink from that fountain Matt & good luck in all your doings.

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] -3 points by Narley (280) 1 month ago

For all practical purposes this is a race riot. No, I’m not racist, but historically black neighborhoods is where rioting and looting occur. I’m sure there have seen other ethnic groups that have rioted\looted since the 1960’s, but I can’t think of one off the top of my head. This is just a excuse for urban youth (and a lot of adults) to loot; and they hit the nearest target which is in their neighborhoods. I read some twitter posts telling the looters to hit White areas.

Also, The police have learned and adapted from previous riots. The police train to quell riots now. They are militarized. They will meet the first sign of civil unrest with armored vehicles, pepper spray, water cannons and combats weapons. They will get all but the worst riots under control pretty quick.

As for where the next riot will be? I think we’re long overdue for a few major riots. Hot summer nights just need to be ignited. I think Miami, New Orleans, Houston and maybe Atlanta are candidates for rioting right now.

Bottom line is this isn’t as much about social justice as it is about getting paid.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

''No, I'm not a racist'' ?! Yes, I think you are a bit actually !! You are as shallow as a puddle in a parking-lot too, ffs & the above is such a b-s comment dripping with palpably reactionary prejudice, whilst trying to give the appearance of trying to be vaguely rational !!!

You regard African Americans as less than you - whether you can admit that or not. You have zip, zilch, zero understanding, insight or appreciation of their culture, history and socio-political reality and you are in a kind of deep contempt for them, because you've swallowed generations of societal prejudice & hate.

Consider ''historically black neighborhoods'', are where Afro-American people mostly live & they've never had the trickle down of any generational wealth and all the industries where they previously worked have been utterly decimated by off-shoring Corporations & they were further gutted by the 'Sub Prime' scams.

Although family structures have been destroyed - for both historical & also for contemporary economic reasons, there is an extended matriarchy with many family relationships. Cops wantonly killing people in a community under pressure will give rise to a reaction - as will how the peaceful demo was treated.

A ''race riot'' was exactly what is was not ! It was not one racial group against another ... unless you do count the mostly white cops as a discrete group. The looting may seem beyond the pale to your tender sensibilities but with gutted social services - it is a rational reaction to poverty in a materialistic culture !

You are like so many Americans I (perhaps prejudicially) think. You will regard deeper explanations with distrust and prefer simplistic reflexive responses - which bypass and do not trouble any rational faculties that you may have left functioning. You're happy about the paramilitary cops on US streets and you just can't wait for more such situations to make you feel smug, superior and ever more paranoid and fearful !!

''Bottom line'' - you don't give a flying fk about ''social justice'' & ''for all practical purposes'' - u r a racist !!!

ad iudicium et temet nosce ...

[-] 2 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

What is the race of the cop whose name is being suppressed? By the statistics of the racial composition of the Ferguson police and the fact that his name is being suppressed, the cop is white because suppressing the name of a black cop would have offered little protection. Some may find this obvious but not others.

If people choose to see things under the racial light, things will turn out to be racial. Isn't that obvious? If I were asked which Racial neighborhoods were burned out, browned out, and torn out in oldtime New York, I would have said, "Black." I do not think it being racist because that is a fact but it is actually an irrelevant statement because I do not believe that race per se has anything to do with the conditions that blacks find themselves in. We could have done it to whites or any other marked group and come out with similar results. Matriarchy in blacks, for example, has more to do with U.S. government policy than black culture. White cop/black dead/rioters correlate well with race so it can be called a "race riot" by the police and the rioters. It is really just a figure of speech inherited from the old idiotic European colonists.

[-] 2 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Victim = Black Kid ; Killer = White Cop ; people (mostly black) protest - first peacefully, which is then brutally suppressed, then 'kick off' .. ergo ''race riot'' ?! Nah !! I'm NOT buying that for 1 minute - despite American Oligarch's traditional fears of both black folk rising up and any kind of political or community collective action !!! Best not to spout US 1%er & 0.01%er dictums. Again, I recommend in particular :

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

I did not think that it was a "race riot." It is more like an overheated pressure cooker finally blowing up. Justice is the real issue at stake. The incessant day-in and day-out racial-profiling actions by the police likely bred arrogance and conceit in the police and increasing resentment in the populace. Give the feds the chance to investigate and bring justice. If it turns out dissatisfactory, the people can still have the final say, as always.

[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Re. Ferguson MO, you see the thing is 'g' & I couldn't agree more that: ''They assaulted the press crews in defiance of the First Amendment of the Constitution. The cammo diffuses accountability just like they are hiding the name of the police officer who shot Michael Brown dead. This has become a police riot. It is time for federalizing the Missouri National Guards to quell the rebellion'' .. BY The Police - from :

''When police departments look to muscle up their arms and tactics, the Pentagon isn’t the only game in town. Civilian agencies are in on it, too.

''During a 2011 investigation, reporters Andrew Becker and G.W. Schulz discovered that, since 9/11, police departments watching over some of the safest places in America have used $34 billion in grant funding from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to militarize in the name of counterterrorism.

''Report by report, evidence is mounting that America’s militarized police are a threat to public safety. But in a country where the cops increasingly look upon themselves as soldiers doing battle day in, day out, there’s no need for public accountability or even an apology when things go grievously wrong.

''If community policing rests on mutual trust between the police and the people, militarized policing operates on the assumption of “officer safety” at all costs and contempt for anyone who sees things differently. The result is an “us versus them” mentality.'' from this essential & highly referenced article :

''How the Excessive Militarization of the Police is Turning Cops Into Counterinsurgents'' and this is the dark light - with which to see the goings on in St. Louis ... not just reflexively knee jerking to some b-s looting - images already well seared by Corporate MSM into the collective sub-consciousness of male White-Americans so as to make them think that black folk are coming for Their shit !! They are NOT !!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 3 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Shocking-------Gaza, coming to a community near you.

[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

''Gaza, coming to a community near you'' !!! ''Shocking'' indeed !! So worth repeating, imo ! Also fyi, see :

''The scope of Israel’s influence on US law enforcement remains virtually ignored by the media despite the troubling implications of emulating an apartheid regime actively engaged in ethnic cleansing and war crimes.

''The culture of racism and impunity that has long plagued American policing is deadly enough as it is. Adding Israeli-style repression to an already dangerous mix guarantees disaster.''

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Ferguson : How Pentagon’s '1033 program' helped militarize small-town police'' (+ video) by Linda Feldmann :

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

get your gauze strips in preparation for rocket retribution

[-] 2 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

It was a peaceful protest until all the looting started and people started blocking traffic for hours on end in busy intersections. It was not brutally suppressed.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

You need to see past the paltry b-s looting and see that b-s via the prism of MASSIVE Wall Street fraud, larceny and uber-financial crimes & in the meantime, Fascism is knocking on the door loudly barely-Rad (actually conservative) Brad ! Urgently read this shit and click on some of the embedded links here too !! Then try to get your priorities straight and asap !!!

Consider - ''the twenty-first-century war on terror has melded thoroughly with the twentieth-century war on drugs, and the result couldn’t be anymore disturbing ... police forces that increasingly look and act like occupying armies.''

caveat emptor ...

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (20944) 1 month ago

"As the number of SWAT teams has grown nationwide, so have the raids. Every year now, there are approximately 50,000 SWAT raids in the United States, according to Professor Pete Kraska of Eastern Kentucky University’s School of Justice Studies. In other words, roughly 137 times a day a SWAT team assaults a home and plunges its inhabitants and the surrounding community into terror."

"The amount of military hardware transferred through the program has grown astronomically over the years. In 1990, the Pentagon gave $1 million worth of equipment to U.S. law enforcement. That number had jumped to nearly $450 million in 2013. Overall, the program has shipped off more than $4.3 billion worth of materiel to state and local cops, according to the DLA."

Connecting the dots.....It always comes back to corporations and their never ending greed.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

'There are ~50,000 SWAT raids in the United States .. every year' - is so shocking it bears repeating !!! 'Dot Connecting is where it's at !! Thanx bw !

Furthermore - ''The amount of critics voicing concern regarding the rioting that had occurred in Ferguson during the early morning hours on August 8th, 2014 has been tremendous; however, many are failing to understand the foundation on which the riot was executed. For example, there have been reports that Brown's parents condemned the riots, and their condemnation has been rallied around by media agents from a variety of platforms and perhaps rightfully so. But, what the media and some citizens fail to mention or understand is that the riot is a response to centuries of bullying, harassment, and differential treatment on behalf of law enforcement. The display of rage witnessed in Ferguson is a direct consequence of the racial animus that the social control apparatus in the US has long hauled against racial minorities, especially African Americans. Why is this not the quintessential caveat of Ferguson?'' from :

fiat lux ...

[-] 2 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

Looting alienates the property owners, creates more enemies than necessary, and worsens the image of the "security" of the neighborhood. It makes peaceful resolution of the issues less likely. Business owners put high value on the "security" of the neighborhood in deciding where to do business and create jobs so improving the image helps the people who live in the neighborhood. Be very selective about whose neighborhood gets looted.

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

Most of the looting was committed by residents who were not from Ferguson. It was just opportunistic criminals stealing shoes, liquor, rims and beauty products, it is truly shameful.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Get over the ''opportunistic'' looting will ya ?!!! It's utterly peripheral to the situation ffs !! Concentrating on it, is .. ''truly shameful'' imo ! Ergo, consider :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 2 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

This seems like deja vu. There was opportunistic looting when Katrina drowned New Orleans. What the heck did electronic goods have to do with no food and no water? The looting damaged the reputation of the people of the community.

[-] 3 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

WTF ? I'm the one with the ''deja vu'' here ! So - ''The looting damaged the reputation of the people of the community'' did it ?!! WTF about the ''reputation'' of those who are supposed to 'protect and serve' ffs ?!!!

Fixating on the token looting and vandalism is what TPTB want you to do. STOP playing into 1% hands.

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

The looting and the responses of the authorities damaged my reputation as a U.S. citizen. I am not my "brothers' keeper" but do you know how close the oldtime poor burned-out neighborhoods are from the wealthy affluent ones in New York? Here I live cheek-by-jowl with my brothers and sisters so yeah I do not want to be whacked or frisked, however inadvertently, by the frisky "Miss Piggy."

Property rights form the foundation of all civilizations. The Babylonians left huge number of clay tablets about that. I trace the discrimination of the Chocolate Races to the idiotic northern Europeans (especially the Belgians, the Dutch, the French, the Germans, and the English) who colonized Africa (and Asia [and the aping Imperial Japan] and Americas, too) and used skin color for consolidating their power with their poor white cohorts.

In the Los Angeles riots (subsequent to the so-called verdict of the beating of Rodney King), a Korean grocer defended his shop against looters with a pistol. That is the very illustrative example of our First and Second Amendments. Free speech comes out of the barrel of the pistol.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Oh yes you ARE your brothers' keeper ... because your brothers and sisters ... have been, are now and will be - keeping YOU !!! It's called society or community or family or nation matey !!! I honestly don't get you 'grapes', as you clearly do have a heart but you do keep trying to disconnect it from your head !

"A riot is the language of the unheard" [MLK] ! Without all the protests would people have even heard of Mike Brown Jr. ?!! Remember the murder by cops of Mr. Eric Garner from Staten Island, New York ?!!!

Btw, ''the foundation of all civilisations'' is the notion of being our ''brothers' keeper'' & NOT property, imo.

fallaces sunt rerum species ...

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

a shop keeper sells good on location

pays money to sell the goods

and takes money selling them

the buyer will have to make their money from someone else

a shop keeper does not add money to society

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

Stop obsessing with the "addition of money to society." There are more valuable goals than that (which is actually being done mightily well by our [Non-]U.S. [Non-]Federal [No-]Reserve) such as health, livelihood, learning, education, well-being, etc. Almost everytime "money" changes hands voluntarily, a little human happiness is created. Shopkeepers in Ferguson create opportunities for that to happen so they may be beneficial to the community.

As an example, fresh groceries being sold there may improve the health of the people in the neighborhood thereby reducing their sufferings from diseases and warding off future medical bills (which by the way even the rich folk can benefit from not having to pay them through medical cost shifting).

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

yes, rich folk has extra money to get those without to do what the rich believe is "worth" money.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

That is how it works in our money economy. Even Donald Trump understands that it is in his interest to get Ebola under control "over there" in West Africa. I am pretty sure that many rich folk would like to have some ZMapp or TKM-Ebola available just in case and they WILL pay for it should Ebola arrive in NYC. You could have made some of Jim Cramer's "Mad Money" if you had traded Tekmira after I had replied to you. Money comes and money goes but you need to get the "eye and mind" for catching some of that sloshing.

[-] -2 points by Narley (280) 1 month ago

Sigh, I guess I should have expected you to play the race card. That seems to be the only argument from bleeding heart liberals in situations like this. But I’ll ignore it. You’re just spouting the same old biased liberal BS. No point in arguing about it. You’re not interested in the listening. You only care about your bias.

So let me be brief. The second the rioters started looting and burning they are no longer victims. They choose to be predators and should be labeled and treated as such. You can preach all the “downtrodden black neighborhoods” all you want; but when they start rioting they lose all consideration as victims.

Also, I read that Rev. Al and Jesse Jackson and the Black Panthers are showing up. The Panthers are saying to target the cops. Jeez, seems like all we need for this circus is George Zimmerman and Hulk Hogan.

[-] 6 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

Hang on - ''this is a race riot'' .. were YOUR words ! YOU played the ''race card'' and my point was and still is, that this NOT a ''race riot'' as it's much deeper than that !! It's YOU Narley - who can not see past ''race'' - because .. ''you're just spouting the same old biased'' .. Conservative, reactionary, racist BS and so - ''You’re not interested in the listening. You only care about your bias'' & are you getting that now ?!!!

So let me try to be even briefer. Your tolerance for real State and Corporate violence at home and also abroad is self-evident. You just expect the weak to stay on their knees and hate any prospect of their reacting TO the violence inflicted on them. Your use of the word ''predators'' is revealing. You don't like black or working class folk - unless they are supine dupes.

Don't know that much about Hulk Hogan but George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon Martin. Do you even know any people of colour or have you ever even socialised with them ?! Or do they need to be .. 'PLUS' first ?!! You know .. 'People Like US' !!! Now try opening some of the links in my last reply above please.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 4 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

i often wonder what people would say if they saw pictures of looting in the warsaw ghetto. would they scream and shout and call the jews of the ghetto thugs and predators?

[-] 2 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

''The Militarization of U.S. Police - Finally Dragged Into the Light by the Horrors of Ferguson'' :

I hear that there are images somewhere of The Palestinian Flag being flown or shown in Ferguson. They get the symbolism. Do we ?! Does OWS ?!! The people of Ferguson do it FOR The US 99% to WTFU !!!

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

Sorry dude but fucked up shit happening in the neighborhood so people decide to rob everyone else is nothing more than acting in self interest.

The initial outrage is one thing. The robbing and looting that happens afterwards is appalling. Although some people do shop a lot when they get upset, so maybe that is a subconscious issue there.

But hey, we riot when our favorite sports teams win "championships" we are so fuckin dumb here.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20944) 1 month ago

If this article outlines anything near how the police force operates in Ferguson on a daily basis, then do you really think these people are going to be peaceful?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/huffington-post-reporter-arrested-ferguson_n_5676829.html

What exactly is it like to be a young black man in Ferguson?

Where does being peaceful get them? Would anybody listen to them if they were peaceful? Sadly, violence begets violence, and don't forget here, that the most violent and instigating act in this situation was the shooting of Michael Brown.

In the end, the only way to end violence is to understand it's roots.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

I am no young black man in Ferguson but I understand the rage - WTF?! Why am I being frisked without being frisky? Get "Miss Piggy" off of her frisking duty and leave me alone!

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (20944) 1 month ago

I always thought the police and the army were two different things.

[-] 3 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

The U.S. has wars on everything under the sun - war on poverty, war on cancer, war on drugs, war on Communism, war on Fascism, war on crimes, war on terrorism, etc. Now that we have almost wound up our longest wars, we bring the troops and military equipments home. Now our war on our homeland and the suspects starts with the military surplus equipments in the hands of the police. Inevitably, it will elicit like responses as in Iraq and Afghanistan but this war on the bantustan cannot end until there is no more homeland.

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

I get it, I understand the "rioting". Its the looting that is unacceptable imo. There is nothing violent about looting, its raw self interest. If you watch some of the tapes of this looting, or really most others, the people looting are usually not the ones filled with rage. They are ones coming in and robbing their locals while the violence is occuring.

There will be more than enough people in the neighborhood pissed that people trashed their stuff because they were mad at the cops. There will be even more that after someone smashed out their windows, others came in and cleaned em out.

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20944) 1 month ago

The looting has the same roots as the violence, in my opinion.

I think it's very unfair to judge the African American experience unless you and your ancestors have been through it or unless you've read a ton and studied it. I find African American history to be the most interesting aspect of U.S. history. What they have endured for 300 years is simply amazing and that they overcame most of it through peaceful protest is even more amazing. They still have farther to come, though, as racism and inequality persist.

I came across this article today and I think it is just one small story among millions:

"Man Receives Diploma 55 Years After Being Denied Graduation For Refusing To Accept Racism"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/alva-earley-diploma_n_5672257.html

[-] 2 points by eklutna (101) 1 month ago

Being white and privileged, I can only imagine the anger that many inner-city people of color have after years of repression which continues to this day in the form of the prison industrial complex, and a whole lot more. The ensuing protest, and mob mentality which emanates from the product (people) of those injustices is not pretty nor is it defensible, but divorcing it from the bigger really fucked-up picture just isn't fair.

Look how angry we are now at the injustices thrust upon us. Then just imagine how we would feel if we had to suffer those codified abuses for generations, and imagine if that maltreatment was anywhere near as egregious as what they have suffered. Think about it through non-privileged eyes.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

"Rioting" and "looting" are two totally different things. Rioting is being pissed and smashing shit, because you are filled with rage, which I understand.

It is a really fucked up situation, way deeper than just this, no doubt. And when you get a bunch of kids together and get em riled up, crazy shit happens. But there is going to be more than enough people in that community denouncing the fact that a few people decided to start robbing their neighbors because mayhem had broken out.

[-] 2 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

i just wrote this to shadz but - thought you might agree - i often wonder what people would say if they saw pictures of looting in the warsaw ghetto. would they scream and shout and call the jews of the ghetto thugs and predators?

[-] 2 points by eklutna (101) 1 month ago

The break-down of a civil society did not begin during the rioting. Rather is has been an on-going process in which people of color have been forced to endure countless injustices at the hands of the same people who are well on their way to propagating them on us too. Let's see how well we adjust if we are not successful.

[-] 3 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

right on

[-] 0 points by eklutna (101) 4 weeks ago

Good point. Rage is rage.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

yep

gotta wonder if the intent of the looting was diversion and if the cops got their cut of the booty

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

We;ve all been in the position of trashing shit when we are mad as hell. Trash things that dont even belong to us. Just walk down the road and go freakin nuts.

But how many of us have been in a position where we see someone go nuts, say smash out a random car window because they are filled with rage, and then we walk over to the car and clean it out, take the purse, clean out the glove box?

Not many of us, and its for good reason. Its a total shithead thing to do.

Ya wanna get upset and smash shit? I get that. You wanna follow the guy who has lost it and steal some poor old person's stuff, their living, the poor people that work there, their way to take care of their kids....etc... Sorry, there will never be an acceptable scenario for that in my book. Not even understandable.

One person is filled with rage, not thinking clearly. The other is thinking very clearly at that moment.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

People are NOT robbing their neighbours and the much bigger reality shit-sandwich - is being faced by black people in particular, so fuck the b-s looting, that's a by-product of stoked avarice in a acquisitive materialistic zeitgiest &/or the plain need / greedy desire for, money - and get The Big Picture dude !!!

The fkn local Ferguson PDs are being relieved of their duties as I type this. THEY are the cause of this shit and NOT a few b-s, junkie or otherwise 'looters / extreme-shoppers'. The Po-Po are rioting nut-jobs & they have lost all semblance of any 'community policing' or 'crime-prevention' - as they turn out to be militarised thug mercenaries for the Prison-Industrial-Security Complex. That's where the problem is ffs.

ad iudicium ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (20944) 1 month ago

The looting and the fact that the cop shot Michael Brown are mutually exclusive. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

The cop and the fascist acts of local governments around this country do not get off easier because people are looting.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (885) 1 month ago

The ''looting'' is opportunistic, incidental and frankly, irrelevant !!! You're right bw !! ''One thing has nothing to do with the other'' ! Also fyi, please try to also consider :

multum in parvo ...

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

Absolutely, the policeman who slammed the head of the press reporter, apologized facetiously afterwards while refusing to give his name MUST be held accountable. In the real U.S. military, names are displayed prominently on the uniforms.

These urchins who HIDE behind their cammo-ed anonymity either have NO balls to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan or are REJECTS. They fancy playing with the leftover toys from their bigger and braver siblings (who wear names on their chests) while holding on to the apron strings of "Miss Piggy" terrorizing the Press and our Chocolate Races. Disgusting cowards and vermins!

I get it through my very thick tinfoil even though I am not "from Missouri."

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

good morning pst

[-] 2 points by din365 (36) 1 month ago

It doesn't matter. There always will be idiots that riot and loot no matter where they are or what skin color they are. just look at Vancouver after a stanley cup loss.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2617) 4 weeks ago

Cause you said your not a racist, I thought you might want to express your outrage at this.

http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/kkk-fundraiser-for-cop-who-killed-michael-brown

Should the cop who killed the unarmed teenager denounce the KKK?

Do you? I do.

[-] 1 points by 99nproud (2617) 4 weeks ago

"What white people are getting wrong about Ferguson"

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17108/ferguson_racial_divide

Where & when is the next riot comin?

[-] 5 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Justice for Mike Brown

Sign the petition to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, Missouri Attorney General Chris Koster, and Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson: "Every day, African American residents of Ferguson and Missouri face possible abuse and death at the hands of officers due to discriminatory policing tactics based on dehumanizing racial stereotypes. Exercise your authority to complete a rigorous investigation of the Ferguson Police Department's racially discriminatory policing, prosecute officers involved to the fullest extent of the law, and begin the firing process for all officers with a record of abuse."

Add your name: Sign the petition ►

As the situation continues to unfold in Ferguson, Missouri, it’s important for CREDO members to keep up the pressure on the Obama administration to ensure that justice is done.

Just days ago, a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, racially profiled and fatally shot unarmed, 18-year-old, Michael Brown.1 Then, on Wednesday night, St. Louis County and City of Ferguson police — dressed in camouflage and equipped with armored tanks and military rifles — fired tear gas, rubber coated bullets, and flash grenades at thousands of African-American residents exercising their right to peacefully assemble and demand accountability for the police killing.

Many were injured in the war-like environment as police displayed blatant disregard for civil rights — unlawfully arresting dozens of people including members of the press and even a St. Louis Alderman.

Racially motivated police violence has no place in law enforcement -- in either the death of Michael Brown or the violent police attacks on peaceful protesters that followed. That’s why we’re joining our allies at ColorOfChange.org in calling for a rigorous investigation, prosecution, and dismissal of all officers involved in this tragic police killing and the shocking attacks on peaceful protesters Wednesday night.

Tell the U.S. Department of Justice and Missouri authorities to investigate the Michael Brown murder and ensure that all police officers involved in shooting the unarmed youth and violence against peaceful protesters are prosecuted to the full extent of the law and permanently removed from duty.

This incident is of such national importance that President Obama addressed the situation twice. He has announced that his Department of Justice would be investigating what happened in Ferguson and specifically called out the violent suppression of journalists. But we need more than an inquiry -- the attorney general must ensure that the federal government will see that justice is done as local authorities are highly compromised by a history of racial profiling and police overreach.

Eye witnesses report that the police officer, who was finally identified as Darren Wilson after local authorities refused for days to answer calls for transparency, fired several shots at Michael as the African-American youth stood in the street with his hands in the air. His family and local community members are calling his death an execution.

Dorian Johnson, Michael's good friend, experienced the entire police killing from just feet away.2 Detailing the police attack, Dorian reveals the officer's attack from start to finish, with the officer's first words to the teens, "get the f—k on the sidewalk." The officer's aggression escalated, and as Michael stood in the street with his hands in the air, the officer fired the fatal shots. Michael's last words were, "I don't have a gun, stop shooting!" He was set to start college just two days later.

Law enforcement officials are working hard to construct a false narrative and make it harder to hold the officers accountable, even refusing to interview the primary eyewitness of the police killing.3 Enough is enough. This tragic police killing is representative of the systemic police abuse affecting African-American communities in Ferguson, Missouri, and across the country.

Last year, African-American Missouri residents were 66% more likely to be stopped by police, and more likely to be arrested, even though white residents were more likely to be found with contraband.4 And despite representing just a third of Ferguson's population, African-Americans are 86% of those stopped by police while driving.5 Decades of entrenched police violence and racial profiling policies targeting African-American youth on the basis of dehumanizing stereotypes has now led to the brutal police murder of 18-year-old Michael Brown.

Tell the U.S. Department of Justice and Missouri authorities to investigate the Michael Brown murder and ensure that all police officers involved in shooting the unarmed youth and violence against peaceful protesters are prosecuted to the full extent of the law and permanently removed from duty.

http://act.credoaction.com/sign/mike_brown_justice?t=5&akid=11423.4833456.w4Psy_

Thank you for speaking out.

Becky Bond, Political Director CREDO Action from Working Assets

Add your name: Sign the petition ►

  1. "Unarmed 18-year-old man shot dead by police in Missouri: witnesses," NY Daily News, 08-10-14 http://act.credoaction.com/go/5734?t=9&akid=11423.4833456.w4Psy_

  2. "Eyewitness to Michael Brown shooting recounts his friend’s death," MSNBC 08-12-2014 http://act.credoaction.com/go/5735?t=11&akid=11423.4833456.w4Psy_

  3. ibid

  4. "Michael Brown and disparity of due process," St. Louis Post-Dispatch 08-11-2014 http://act.credoaction.com/go/5736?t=13&akid=11423.4833456.w4Psy_

  5. "Black residents in Ferguson, Missouri, are stopped and arrested far more than whites," BuzzFeed, 08-11-14 http://act.credoaction.com/go/5737?t=15&akid=11423.4833456.w4Psy_

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Signed.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Thanks - for being so very pro-ACTIVE. I do believe that taking part in such actions - Very Much Brings Real Issues To Light In The Public Eye and So Forces Attention On Needs Of Society.

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3856) 1 month ago

~ Dickey Betts And Great Southern - Atlanta's Burning Down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIIY-ysVl60

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3856) 1 month ago

I have a strong opinion on the looting aspect of the 'anatomy of a riot'. But I'll refrain.

I've not been oppressed, and though highly empathic...I hesitate to express my opinion on the looting in riots, given that I can't conceivably assimilate the depth and demoralizing gravity of a centuries long persecution and oppression I cannot fully comprehend.

Human nature, unfortunately, is not always ideal. Far from, in fact. But it's what we have to work with. So, let's not quarrel.

I do not wish to minimize this topic, as the 'anatomy of a riot' has it's place here at OWS, nor do I want to quell the voices of those who need and justly should be heard, on this subject. But I would like to express an opposing view...and a hope.

Looting is usually an early symptom of rioting, followed by far more serious violence...usually by the government like we're seeing now with the militarization of police and the silencing of genuine reporting....so folks, we just have bigger problems to address. Problems that may be just on the horizon.

This "To loot, or not to loot' is driving the forum into yet another divisive discussion...and perhaps it is something for the social sciences to take up and disseminate.

Or better yet...if the rioting continues and morphs into a full uprising...that is just the first step for humanity going forward. Something needs to follow for the 99%. A plan...because historically, riots and uprisings are sparked on the heels of an unrelated tragedy, like Michael Brown's senseless shooting and death.

Whether now, or in the near future...the uprising is coming. We don't need to worry about that. It's a given. The world is fucked, and everyone's feeling it.

But then what? What comes afterward? In the immediate and long-term?

Would it not be more productive to talk about positive forward thinking ideas for humanity that would make it unnecessary, in future, to ever again be concerned about riots, shooting of unarmed people, oppression? Let's make these things obsolete.

The brutal and senseless shooting of Michael Brown is not served well by this looting discussion, either. It should not be lost on us that Michael's death should stand for the 99% moving forward... removing power, in all it's forms, from tyrants. His life should be indelibly linked and immortalized, along with the lives of all the people killed recently all over the world by Imperialist tyrants. His life of peace could mean something, in his death.

Now, more than ever, is when we need to collectively put our creative ideas together and start implementing them for a better world for ALL, so that EVERYONE can live a life of dignity...and not ever get so despondent about their future and the futures of their children to the point where they are willing to confront police and military, face to face, knowing that they could die at any moment. That kind of desperation simply should not exist in our world today...and most certainly not in our future world.

Homeless African American man singing of the symptoms of long term oppression ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvaitajcPrU

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

The Ferguson incident of oppression has zero chance of becoming the "uprising" because its flaring-up would be put down by overwhelming forces very quickly. People there will just return to sulking after the bloodbath because they may have blind rage but they do not even know where "Bastille" is. The white folk with their state militia speak volumes out of their boom tubes (and had a peaceful outcome in Nevada). Blind rage gets one killed blindly and really what would that be good for?

[-] 4 points by Renneye (3856) 1 month ago

You may be right. In fact I hope you are right. Not because I think they don't have a good reason to protest, because they do...but, because I have always said from when I arrived here, that I feel there are safer and more strategic ways to rise up against a tyrannical government...especially now with computers and social gadgets available to reach the populace in planning and implementation.

Though rebellions/uprisings have started from smaller incidences before.

My sense is that for those wanting a physical global uprising, they need not worry. They will get their uprising...and many will die.

"Blind rage gets one killed blindly..." How very true. Most people don't know where their/our 'Bastille' is. Who can blame them? There is so much blame to go around. The purveyors of oppression so convoluted, so muddied in subterfuge.

But, we don't need to know where our Bastille is, to put government back in the hands of the people. What we need to do, imo, is create the fair and just world we want to live in. Step by step, we need to act. It may not be as fast, but we are doing double duty. Getting rid of debt-slavery and tyranny, with the solution already built in. Building a new society from the inside out.

I was on 'Ferguson LiveStream' (with chat) today and tonight and there were more shootings. Four people, I think. I don't know what the injuries are, yet. Another skirmish of violence against peaceful protesters. Followed by the usual PR release from police to CNN. Sickening.

[-] 2 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

Some in Ferguson have finally (after six days) caught on that a piece of cloth, scarf, or mask around one's face helps with breathing in tear gas. Wet ones work even better. That was figured out years ago in Tahrir Square. Even the U.S. press had front-page cover on what proper "dress" should be for the extracurricular activities. The successful Ukraine uprising had literally an open book for how to conduct a violent conflict. The targets (utilities of oil, water, electricity) of ISIL showed strategic and opportunistic thinking. Note that I do NOT advocate violence because over here we have more peaceful ways of solving our problems. I was rather disheartened when I saw that hair extensions and liquors were looted. Those were not what the pitchfork-armed peasants went for when they stormed Bastille.

The U.S. is communication intensive so the struggle needs to be won on that front. The phone companies have installment subscription plans to get us to pay dearly to buy the expensive mobile phones. We should use a similar method - continuous positive sub-fracturing pressures of all kinds. It will be slow but it will minimize collateral damage and exact far more damage in the long run. The struggle will become eternal unless the opposition relents.

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

Robberies and looting lie at the fountainhead of the stigmatization of the Chocolate Races. I am a New Yorker for decades so I saw many DARK faces in the robbers and those who engaged in borderline or criminal behaviors.

Our brains are built to associate stimuli occurring together so what colored face tends to flash across my mind whenever I hear of a robbery? Yes, it is DARK. My brain worked! When a person with a dark face in a hoodie (making them less recognizable) wearing sneakers (making them faster in running away) approaches me, I naturally tense up or walk away discreetly. As my brain says, "Odds are..."

[-] 5 points by Renneye (3856) 1 month ago

Your comment seemed complacent. Like, "this is the way it is, so don't expect anything to change any time soon."

You're an observer. Okay. Now what?

There's a certain productiveness in the collective admission of racism if we are to go forward as a society, as well as recognition of the many factors like inexorable oppression and the MSM indoctrination that engenders this stigmatization in the psyche of caucasians. That has been and still is being addressed over decades now, by many humanitarian/social groups with varying degrees of success. It is difficult, though, to be sincere and project the message of 'acceptance' with one hand while still oppressing with the other. It is disingenuous, at best.

Take the word 'tolerance' for instance. It is the word used by many social groups to combat racism. But it's a negative word with built-in failure right from the get-go. Who came up with that word for such an important cause? It's horrible. The word should have been 'acceptance'.

One word (acceptance)...is loving, unconditional, limitless. You smile when looking at someone and saying it. "I accept you". The other (tolerance)...is fraught with negative ugly connotation. It is unloving, impatient, limiting, disdainful...it says "fine, despite your obvious shortcomings, I'll put up with you." It makes one frown when saying it.

Words and language are important. Using the word 'tolerance' instead of 'acceptance' was intentional in my view...to keep the racial divide alive. I see it playing out on the news as we speak. It's sickening. Geared to keep hatred alive under the guise of peace. It's faux humanitarian efforts with carefully crafted use of language and MSM images to do the exact opposite of what they say.

Imagine yourself closely looking into the eyes of a person of minority, and say the two sentences side by side. You can actually feel the contempt in the word 'tolerance'. It's powerful. "I accept you.". " I tolerate you.". How could the social institutions, who chose a word to heal the chasm between the races, be so remiss as to choose a word that causes even more hatred?

More importantly though, is taking all that we now understand to the next level. Far more than just preaching the word of equality...by creating dignified conditions for EVERYONE. It's time. Not black or white. Only human.

OWS can be instrumental in this endeavor. Laying a foundation of example with a multi-branched cooperative that anyone can take part in and be treated equally, both in remuneration and decision making, without emphasis on black or white or anything else superficial.

Nothing will change as far as poverty and segregation for minorities, until TRUE fairness is implemented, and letting ALL people live a dignified life so the desperation of minorities doesn't set in, in the first place. Preaching 'integration training', as they now call it, is far different than actually doing it and integrating a level playing field right out of the gate.

African-American history is complex and deeply rooted with unspeakable oppression and abuses...the breadth of which will take many, many decades...more even, to fully envisage and ultimately, if possible...heal. We cannot afford to wait that long. We have to start acting now...and waiting for the government to do it is useless. Some would argue that we've come a long way, but that is not my view. They've taken decades to get us only this far with their faux initiatives. We have to do it ourselves.

There is much we can do to immediately halt further oppression that currently disheartens people of minorities to acts of despair.

[-] 4 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

It is way past time that the U.S. should get its stupid "race" house in order and have an honest good-faith discussion about redress measures.

Let me re-iterate the narrative, "Let the Emancipator come!" Lincoln came and went and "freed" in the Law but not in fact. "Let there be a state of expatriated slaves in Africa!" Liberia came and is being ravaged by Ebola. "Let there be a black mayor!" Andrew Young made it. "Let there be a 'black' President!" Obama IS. Yet, didn't we meet Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, and Michael Brown, again and again on our gigantic hamster wheel?

We are missing something big here and that is our collective memories. As stupid as the idea of race was, its effects were permanently imprinted in our brains and it permeates our culture. There are even cross-generational imprinting of fears within families. I cannot erase my memory but introspection affords me the opportunity to understand myself and my reaction to the very stupid idea of "race" and to implant countervailing memories. Several generations may need to come and go before "race," the thorn in the heart of our national psyche, fades away.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

literally "to bear," from PIE *tele- "to bear, carry"

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=toleration

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3856) 1 month ago

Thanks Matt. I read the whole thing. Sounds like quite the 'burden' of a word. I like 'acceptance' much better! It's like an embrace.

But, I'll 'tolerate' your need for etymological purity. ;-)

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

gotta wonder if the negative connotations came first

politics has a way of distorting a word's meaning like "democratic republic"

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

Perhaps my arachnophobic experience can help show what is needed for patching up the "race" problem. When I was a child, I saw adults stamping out these creepy crawly bugs. Yep, I learnt from them and acquired the fear of spiders. Then I observed what a spider did in a corner of a room with the mosquito caught in the cobweb and I made the connection that I liked the spider doing just that to the pesky mosquito. I do not want itchy bites or any buzzing around my head so the spider becomes positive in my mind.

Do I still have my fear about the spiders? Yes, a little bit because knowing too much can bother me - some spiders are indeed deadly but do I leave cobwebs alone? Yes, as long as they do not belong to the deadly ones because I despise the mosquitoes far more. As the Beatles got the words of wisdom, "Let it be. -- Let it be"

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3856) 1 month ago

I live peacefully with the spiders in my house. I like them all, except for the ones with red fangs, I bring those outside.

Yes, grapes. "Let it be.", but that can only go so far at this stage. Racial harmony needs inspiration and action now. We can't expect it to fix itself. Far too much damage. I feel like at this point harmony will flounder if left entirely to it's own devices. I could be wrong though, humanity amazes me sometimes.

OWS should become a worldwide cooperative and provide the means by which ALL people can provide for themselves while helping others equally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gPjGuC6CFQ

I'm on Ferguson LiveStream now. The crowds are getting larger and remaining peaceful so far, but there is an abundance of military type presence.

http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

the old man with the shovel

that smashed my car window for my NO WAR bumper sticker

(no. I didn't see it happen)

was white

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

Yeah, I learnt the importance of "situational awareness" the hard way. Bumper sticker of NO WAR in San Diego, the major military port on the West Coast, invites trouble. I agree that the person smashing your car window was white. Furthermore, my brain tells me that you are not white.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

1/2 fifth generation Californian german ancestry

irish, french , english, 1/32 sioux

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

The ratio of "blood" fell below 1/16 according to old Southern legal definition so you are white. According to modern science, we can still claim to be Africans. The answer to the question, "Where are you from?" can be so hard to get if you really think deeply about it.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

my face is red with german heritage

[-] 1 points by grapes (3056) 1 month ago

I get it! Oktoberfest Bier. I feel that I am (purple) Concord grapes. Have you ever engaged in a food fight in the school cafeteria? Yes, I got hit by the straw rockets but I had my artillery pieces on my fork, too.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

violence shouldn't exist in the future

don't obfuscate that with depression

...

I don't confuse those unable to get work as depressed

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Stop militarizing our police. Since 1996, the Department of Defense has transferred $4.3 billion in military equipment to local and state police. It is time for this to stop.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/262191/st-louis-photographer-on-scene-at-riots-this-is-my-job/

Trashing your local business does nothing at all, if anyone thinks that burning some small businesses is going to grind the gears to a halt, they are mistaken.

This woman knows some people who are now out of a job because people were mad at the cops so they burned the gas station.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/video-neighbor-angry-about-looting-posts-note-at-qt/html_63a31de8-6f29-5592-8161-76d44eade66a.html

[-] 2 points by din365 (36) 1 month ago

Exactly. Corporations don't care if some mom and pop store gets looted. it doesn't do a damn thing to their bottom line, because they don't own that business. A small business doesn't have a CEO and chair people, but an owner that is there all the time trying to stay aloat in a tough economy so they can put food on their table and a roof over their head, and then some idiot robs them because they don't like "the man"? that's being an idiot and an A-hole all in one!

[-] 3 points by DKAtodayandtomorrow (-7) 1 month ago

The fires of serious revolt were bound to start-up ( and have sporadically/briefly in other places ( like LA ) here in the USA - more intense and escalating elsewhere in the world ). Will they intensify? Eventually - I think they will - and spread like a wildfire under a high wind at some point in time - if things stay as they are now = criminals in control of government ( state and Fed ) - and those assholes continue on escalating their attacks on the population and the environment ( here in the USA as well as around the world ).

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 month ago

yes but which city will be next?

[-] 1 points by DKAtodayandtomorrow (-7) 1 month ago

{ edit x 2 } Predictions? Well I will go so far as to say the hottest spots are mostly located in Red states as far as outright massive poverty and the denial of services such as ACA and SNAP - add to that - fossil fuel would be a ( the ) main industry.

edit -> and LA is never far from ignition. Just need another nasty police incident and WHHHOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHH the whole place could go up.

edit #2 -> Then there is always Chicago - contesting ( or owning ) for murder capitol of the USA.

But then there is a seemingly surprising candidate in Minnesota = Minneapolis. Things have been getting real violent in Minneapolis - real violent.

But then again we have the desperately beset Detroit and water shut offs of all things.

Things are getting real ugly all over the US of A.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

ya

who cares if the US bombs the shit out of other countries

[-] 1 points by DKAtodayandtomorrow (-7) 1 month ago

I care - I care a lot - and criminal actions by the USA MIC touch off plenty of bloody conflicts - over and over and over and over ............ besides the direct criminal intervention programs such as invasion and drone wars - there is always the handy dandy indiscriminate arming everyone everywhere for peace programs.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

I quit my weapons job when the US bombed Iraq in 2002

[-] 2 points by DKAtodayandtomorrow (-7) 1 month ago

Was that the reason you quit or just a coincidence in timing?

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

I had no plans to stay with the military

I don't find it to be the kind of world I want to live in.

[-] 2 points by DKAtodayandtomorrow (-7) 1 month ago

Military life "could" be OK - if they just didn't feel the need to go to war - I mean National defense needn't necessarily be Bang Bang Shoot-em-up. Lets expand the army core of engineers and defend our country with needed projects - like - OH - I don't know - rebuilding our decomposing infra-structure?

But this is kinda off of the track of the post = St. Louis is burning - where will be next? So let us consider this comment as something sane that government could embark upon - rather than all of the corrupt and criminal activity that they are currently doing. Thus removing risk of the country going up in flames of revolt.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2694) 1 month ago

"Military life "could" be OK - if they just didn't feel the need to go to war - I mean National defense needn't necessarily be Bang Bang Shoot-em-up. Lets expand the army core of engineers and defend our country with needed projects - like - OH - I don't know - rebuilding our decomposing infra-structure?"

Yes DKA this would be a great prioritization of "military", have more diversified, give more skills and benefits to us of a, not really a standing army, would be more constitutional, in line with the founders intents

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Hey gsw - Yep - keeping with proper intent = keep the "National" guard at home "in" the nation. Everyone could rotate through in one capacity or another and gain valuable training and experience. Computer science Drafting Design Arcitecture Heavy equipment operation Carpentry Disaster relief Public works/utilities etc etc etc Doing work to make our society better/stronger/safer more flexible on a continuous process improvement program.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2694) 1 month ago

Yes DKA, I would support such a program, strongly, especially with understandings military aspects of service would be one of personal conscience, such as if there was an unjust war, one wouldn't necessarily be sent. Wars would need to be last resort, for protection of homeland, in defense, not as bush and Obama have continued, in fear of future threats. We have squandered our nation wealth since Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, and not defeated terrorists, who are criminals, and we should not be equally criminal by invading countries and commencing wars without strong international support and as last resort.

So army would not be standing army but for humanitarian main goals as you describe.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

We have squandered our nation wealth since Iraq and Afghanistan invasions,

we still drive big cars with big debts

[-] 2 points by gsw (2694) 1 month ago

Personally this is my situation.

May be due to my still having a home, and family.

The home is not near work. Also home is tricky to sell as to you loose money to real estate agent, and new place would equal higher debt.

I could choose to rent, but now I enjoy to not need to deal with land lord, and I like this neighborhood, nice green areas, and I had been here some time.

If there was a program to mitigate costs of moving to a similar home, nearer work, and give up my big car, or put in a greener engine, why not have such a program available for people to choose, it could really have some benefits

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Well said.

Everyone rotating through training and service would leave a well educated and prepared population that could jump in and swell the ranks in any kind of emergency - from Natural Disaster to whatever else was urgently needed.

This country certainly has squandered/flushed/wasted wealth - for decades and decades and seriously put the pedal down on flushing wealth down the toilet in these last 13 years.

We "should" be arming the world for peace - BUT - the armaments should be freshwater processing and clean/green power creation tech - setting up clean industry such as farming and public utilities etc etc That is How Peace Is Waged.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2694) 1 month ago

Excellent

Do you think all Americans could support such a rebranding of role of army? Or would conservatives argue is unneeded expansion of government and state power.

I don't see it as expansion,just shift in priority. I hope it could be expanded, as funding allows.

[-] 6 points by Renneye (3856) 1 month ago

Hey, gsw! I'm really liking this conversation that you and DKA are having.

What a healthy way of transitioning an existing 'antiquated' type of army/military mentality and barbaric practices, going forward into a very healthy type of people's society.

Just peeking in and thought I'd let you know that someone noticed.

[-] 2 points by gsw (2694) 1 month ago

Thanks Renneye. Glad you appreciated this.

Sadly, even if American people want something, it is hard to have legislative branch give heed to the common man, or majority will, not as the founders would have liked to see our country in, and they would hope the people, in their wel-planne system, could be able to change through voting, but now how legislators have virtually guaranteed their reelection through gerrymandering, they are ibnsulatedp from the very people they should seek to represent.

When is the last time a representative asked input from his constituents.

Ron Paul ran away the other day when a young lady mentioned dreamer.

Legislators were supposed to be for the people, the common man, the common good.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

" I'm really liking this conversation "

Me 2

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

[ EDIT ] Shifting the paradigm. I see no reason why the public wouldn't support such a positive rebirth of mission. To make it happen they would need to be shown the benefits as well as cost savings and proper use of the country's wealth = to build a healthy and prosperous society - here at home and by extension of commitment = the world.

And ALL should be involved/included - Here - I am talking about the handicapped/disabled as well as those who are not physically challenged. War has caused a lot of needless and heartbreaking deaths - of service people and of innocent civilians as well as many seriously life long wounded/handicapped. I would rather see the military learn to be healthy and handy-"cape-able" - this ability could easily translate out into non-military society as well.

Learning to be flexible in our thinking and in our approach to life - design our society to be fully accessible to ALL - by learning how to help the handicapped be as fully functional as possible. There is work that anyone can do and there is plenty of work that could be made accessible to all through inventiveness/ingenuity.

Just some things to consider in moving towards a wholly Healthy Society/World.

EDIT -> This should also dovetail with ACA ( or a proper Universal Health Care ) - besides providing access to Dr.'s and treatment - Health Care Should go further and work at making people successful - to help people overcome physical challenges.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

oh dear

the military could build a national healthcare network

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

testing testing 1 2 3 tap tap . . . is this thing on?

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Hey DKA, Is national/world MSM reporting on riot? We don't have TV.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Hey Nevada1 - ya know? - I have not seen a report on St. Louis - I was just responding to the post. Such as =

The fires of serious revolt were bound to start-up ( and have sporadically/briefly in other places ( like LA ) here in the USA - more intense and escalating elsewhere in the world ). Will they intensify? Eventually - I think they will - and spread like a wildfire under a high wind at some point in time - if things stay as they are now = criminals in control of government ( state and Fed ) - and those assholes continue on escalating their attacks on the population and the environment ( here in the USA as well as around the world ).

AND

{ edit x 2 } Predictions? Well I will go so far as to say the hottest spots are mostly located in Red states as far as outright massive poverty and the denial of services such as ACA and SNAP - add to that - fossil fuel would be a ( the ) main industry.

edit -> and LA is never far from ignition. Just need another nasty police incident and WHHHOOOOOOSSSSSHHHHHH the whole place could go up.

edit #2 -> Then there is always Chicago - contesting ( or owning ) for murder capitol of the USA.

But then there is a seemingly surprising candidate in Minnesota = Minneapolis. Things have been getting real violent in Minneapolis - real violent.

But then again we have the desperately beset Detroit and water shut offs of all things.

Things are getting real ugly all over the US of A.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Thank you DKA. You Made some good points.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Thanks. But it was nothing more than looking at history and then comparing similar situations from the past to current events.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Just checked all major networks online------No mention Of St Louis yet----Just Robin Williams death on front page. Some news on publication sites

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/12/us/looting-and-unrest-follows-vigil-for-st-louis-teenager.html?_r=0

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

can't take MSM seriously without on site back up

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Agree. The thing is this is worth reporting on. If not reported or played down----would be telling us something.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4377) 6 minutes ago

Regarding Robin Williams----Report said investigators leaning towards suicide.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

That's sad - he lived a tortured life - as many comedians do.

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Yes, Sad.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Thanks for the story link for St. Louis = http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/12/us/looting-and-unrest-follows-vigil-for-st-louis-teenager.html?_r=0

The Police - AGAIN ( I have not looked into the issue yet - and will need to do so to see what is going on ) - off hand is this gonna be anything like that kid who was gunned down in a wall mart while holding an air-gun?

MORK ??? Dead? Really? I will have to catch the news later on. Natural or Drug related?

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Regarding Robin Williams----Report said investigators leaning towards suicide.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4377) 7 minutes ago

http://rt.com/usa/179356-ferguson-police-shooting-teenager/

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Thank you - that hardly sounds like selfish motivation that Rad attributes it to - Hey?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 weeks ago

Tonight = 9/4/2014 on the PBS News Hour. Former assistant Attorney General of the United States says that looking at the Ferguson police department for a pattern of civil rights abuses will be harder than looking at say all of New York or all of Detroit. I say = BULLSHIT. Looking at the operations of the PD of Ferguson should be pretty transparent and obvious - given the nature of it's relatively small size. Civil Rights do not change as per size of population - neither do the responsibilities of government and law enforcement. Being small - Ferguson should be much easier as to seeing how the PD operates = Over ALL.

This looks to me ( statement from former assistant attorney General to the USA ) as a set-up for failure to make positive change as well as failure to bring up necessary criminal charges against the murderer of Brown.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

{ edit } Has the MSM Just Obliterated Darren Wilson Along With the Entire Ferguson Police Department?

by bobswernFollow


Just "another" offshoot - of - when government does not represent the people = ALL OF THE PEOPLE.

Just another thing that gets worse - if - people walk away from owning and then changing the system.

Does anyone think that the best thing for the population of Furgeson ( or anywhere else for that matter ) to do - IS - try to Ignore the current government and just do their own thing?

edit -> Does a particular individual who posts crap about just walking away and doing your own thing - understand why the tyrants are all for that? So much so that the tyrants currently in charge - are trying to remove the ability to vote ( and so remove ability to make change ) from certain segments of the population ( the poor the minorities the elderly the ill the handicaped the the the ) ? And if successful the tyrants will continue to remove more and more segments of the population from the ranks of voters.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

Approved responses

by Tom TomorrowFollow for Comics

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 4 weeks ago

the people should determine the current government

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago

Absolutely - ALL of The People - the WHOLE population - on equal grounds/standing.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

A member of law enforcement (? really ) stating to the camera in no uncertain terms - why he has got the wrong job:

Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 11:45 AM PDT Officer to protesters: 'I will f--king kill you'

by HunterFollow for Daily Kos

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

I've not read all of this yet - but - from what I have read so far - this guy - real or not - shows proper thinking - and illustrates why the cop in the above comment ( https://occupywallst.org/forum/st-louis-is-burning-what-american-city-is-next/#comment-1043851 ) Should not be in law enforcement.


Mon Aug 18, 2014 at 01:12 PM PDT A Cops take on Ferguson

by Militant ApathyFollow

[-] 2 points by Renneye (3856) 1 month ago

Ferguson: Follow LIVESTREAM ~~ National Guard Brought In

http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow

Or, go to LiveStream at top-right of this page and click "activistworldnewsnow"

It's easy to login and show solidarity!!

[-] 2 points by HalalDali (17) 1 month ago

St. Louis is still on fire.

The roots of the racial unrest that has racked Ferguson, Mo., this week go back more than a century in a region that has had one foot planted in the Midwest and another in the South.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-ferguson-racial-history-20140815-story.html

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

7:07 AM PT: So for six days Ferguson police have claimed that Darren Wilson simply told Michael Brown to "get on the sidewalk." Is that the usual procedure for dealing with robbery suspects? (Deep sarcasm.)

Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 06:48 AM PDT Michael Brown's killer identified

by Barbara MorrillFollow for Daily Kos

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Good Point.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Yes it is a very good point - and then so sick to watch all of the CYA bs ( cover your ass bullshit ) that gets spouted by officials in trying to justify murder by cop.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

From the school yard of education basics - an illustration in real life - of action/reaction of cause/effect:

Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 07:21 PM PDT Public Enemy Number One?

by pajolyFollow

" For every action, there is an equal and opposite action. Newton's Law, damn it. Basic physics. See that sentiment scrawled on the mailbox in that image? If this is what law enforcement has become, if this is the default response to its own crimes, then, yeah, I agree."

[-] 1 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

RT reported before US MSM would gag it up.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

One thing you can count on RT for = point out failings of their long term nemesis = USA. Quite often - too often? - almost always? - ( sad to consider ) - their showing the failings of USA is all too sadly accurate. This makes their homeland no better in comparison ( their own failings ) - but someone should point out the very real hypocrisy and failings of the USA - even if their own situation is much the same or worse.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Good point. How is US MSM tv portraying all this?

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

How is US MSM tv portraying all this?

Poorly? I ask as I have not seen much coverage of this St.Louis killing nor of the wall-mart killing nor of the New York killing ............... Well You see what I mean.

[-] 2 points by Nevada1 (4674) 1 month ago

Yes. Imagine what it would be like without the internet.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

As I said in https://occupywallst.org/forum/st-louis-is-burning-what-american-city-is-next/#comment-1043110 :

Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 08:40 AM PDT Chief Justice John Roberts lectures lawyers to 'rise above partisan debates'

by Joan McCarterFollow

  • ( wah-wah-wahhhhhh - rimshot )
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

edit -> Back to the propaganda machine of the 30's 40's 50's 60's 70's 80's 90's ( have a coke and a smile ) ? Nothing but UN-opposed propaganda 24/7/365 ( fracking it's good for you and good for the environment). Makes me seriously ILL to contemplate.

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago


this whole search just reads and sounds like MSM fiction



though an unarmed black man was shot


that would be used as a backdrop for MSM malarki

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

St. Louis Cop Shot Unarmed Teen After Alleged Gun Struggle

MSM is definitely trying to exaggerate the riot part

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Throw-Blood-Like-Substance-on-Reporter-s-Car

As well as buckets of manure? Sorry I didn't open the link 1st to see the story. I just figured that it would have been appropriate.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

the store front should be verifiable on site

[-] 2 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago
  1. Ferguson is engulfed in riots
  2. It is mostly not Ferguson residents who are rioting and looting, it is mostly outsiders taking advantage of the situation
  3. Rioting and looting are not answers too "injustice" and yes these people and damaging the community
  4. Watch the news from St. Louis and you will see it is just criminals and trash who are looting and rioting
  5. No one knows how the shooting took place so let the facts come out before crying racism or murder
  6. This is a tragic event but do not justify looting, arson, and rioting by saying the people are rising up because that is not that case
[-] 1 points by DebtNEUTRALITYpetition (638) 1 month ago

The reason most people never riot in the U.S. may be out of fear of losing what they already have. In poorer countries where large percentages have very little it is easier to form a bond with someone else who has just as little. In the U.S., will we ever see homeowners joining forces with apartment dwellers joining forces with the homeless?

The disparity in wealth sort of paralyzes people because even most poor people in the U.S. have running water, electricity, a TV and a refrigerator.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 month ago

depriving the government the means of tax collection via no sales tax cause there is no business is a good way to get a point across.

[-] -1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

That is absolutely ridiculous, the were looting and committing arson. They are criminals who caused tens of thousands of dollars in damage.

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

What?

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

Most of them are, I watched the looting happening live last night. Those animals were stealing liquor from QT, rims and tires, shoes and hair weaves. The lit a QT on fire and ransacked local small businesses then bragged about it on Facebook.

[-] 0 points by DKAtodayandtomorrow (-7) 1 month ago

4) and trash

And trash?

Just what exactly do you categorize as TRASH ?

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

People who loot businesses and commit arson and take advantage of a horrible situation for their own personal criminal gains

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh so you would compare them to - say - ohhh - Palestinians? - perhaps? Sorry - poor comparison - in a way - but - not so off in another way - if you can stretch your mind far enough to consider - the desperately poor ( downtrodden ) have a tendency to act out in violence against the structure that is around them - that structure - representing - all that is shoving their faces into the ground - right or wrong - that is how it goes.

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

So being angry gives people the right to steal and destroy private property? Ferguson, MO is also not a downtrodden and poor area.

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Ferguson, MO is also not a downtrodden and poor area.

Really? Are you telling me that a bunch of middle class folks went nuts for no reason?

[-] 2 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

It is mostly lower middle class but not poverty stricken, I know because I live close to Ferguson and know many people who live where all the looting was last night.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Really! Lower middle class - huh - people able to afford the roof over their head ( single family roof ) and a car and a yearly vacation and school tuition clothing food and and and. Those people went on a riot? How ODD.

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

http://www.fergusoncity.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/334

Not sure if this is accurate or not.

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

Do you live in or bear Ferguson? If not then you don't know what you are talking about. Again, just because the are angry does that give them the right to steal and destroy private property?

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

Clearly this behavior is not acceptable. Its not based off of anything besides acting like a teenager:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NteNCOXxWPY

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

It's a little old but probably accurate, I'm watching live now and police are out in force tonight so there is not a repeat of last night and as of about 45 minutes ago started firing some tear gas at rioters who have been going on a highway and stomping and climbing on cars.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Really! Lower middle class - huh - people able to afford the roof over their head ( single family roof ) and a car and a yearly vacation and school tuition clothing food and and and. Those people went on a riot? How ODD.

[-] 2 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

You still haven't answered the question. People like John Zisser who owns an auto and tire small business in Fergusson are affected the most. At about 1:30 AM last night I was watching live as his shop was looted. People were stealing tires and rims and smashed his shop up. It's gonna cost him tens of thousands of dollars to repair.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Which question?

1) Do you live in or bear Ferguson? = No

2) just because the are angry does that give them the right to steal and destroy private property? = No

You never really answered my disbelief either. Tell me - what made lower middle class people - people who are living a good life - what made them so angry as to Riot ???

[-] 0 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

Because they are selfish trash who took advantage of a horrible situation for their own personnel gain. Michael Browns family begged people not to riot and loot yet they still did. They are destroying their own community and outsiders are destroying Fergusson which really is not a horrible area and has come a long way in the last ten years. Those people are criminals!

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

I think that YOU need to review this and then consider UN-justified deaths of Black individuals in these United (?) States.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/killing-missouri-teenager-police-triggers-unrest-outcries-answers/

And YOU call these people criminals AND TRASH

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

[-] 0 points by RadBrad (9) 9 minutes ago

Yep I'm a racist for saying black people, that makes perfect sense. I said black people because it was all black people I saw rioting and looting as I watched the rioting and looting happening live! Yes they were stealing weaves, liquor, shoes and shit from family dollar like box fans, get informed before you start calling me a racist. Like I said before check the Fox2Now Facebook page and you will see exactly what I saw.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[ edit ] But - Heyyyy - at least you said that they were all lower "middle" class rioting Black People - edit-> Sorry - you said criminals and trash - so lower middle class criminals - sorry again - lower middle class BLACK Criminals and Trash. Kudos.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

[-] 0 points by RadBrad (9) 1 minute ago

You have got to be kidding me. Have you watched any of the local St. Louis news? Because that is exactly what is being stolen. I watched live as black people stole shoes, liquor from QT, wheel rims and tons of stuff from a beauty supply store. Do not redirect the issue by crying racism because it is not racism it is fact. I watched it happen as those animals looted and ran. The employees of the QT hid in the freezer in fear. Check the local news feeds on Facebook and you will see exactly what I saw.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

ANnnnnnD - BOOM - there it is = Black People. Thanks for your racist declaration.

And people wonder why Black people who have a legal permit to carry and a registered gun - DO NOT - open carry. Hell that would be just asking to be assassinated/murdered. It is truly a wonder that in certain areas Black Police officers carry = OPENLY - while on the job - considering attitudes of the populace in many areas as demonstrated right here ( thanks Rad ) - it is a wonder that Black Police Officers are allowed to be armed - PERIOD.

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

Yep I'm a racist for saying black people, that makes perfect sense. I said black people because it was all black people I saw rioting and looting as I watched the rioting and looting happening live! Yes they were stealing weaves, liquor, shoes and shit from family dollar like box fans, get informed before you start calling me a racist. Like I said before check the Fox2Now Facebook page and you will see exactly what I saw.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

[-] 0 points by RadBrad (9) 27 minutes ago

They are stealing shoes, liquor and weaves and burning down businesses, that is both outrageous and selfish because they are putting their wants before the needs of the community, that sounds pretty selfish to me. They deserve to be arrested and thrown in prison.

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

UMMMMM sorry but - so far? - your take on the matter seems pretty shallow ( at the very least ) and perhaps a bit racist.

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

You have got to be kidding me. Have you watched any of the local St. Louis news? Because that is exactly what is being stolen. I watched live as black people stole shoes, liquor from QT, wheel rims and tons of stuff from a beauty supply store. Do not redirect the issue by crying racism because it is not racism it is fact. I watched it happen as those animals looted and ran. The employees of the QT hid in the freezer in fear. Check the local news feeds on Facebook and you will see exactly what I saw.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

This hardly sounds selfish:

" A gathering of mourners at the shooting site Sunday night for Brown, 18, who was to begin his first day in college today, quickly turned violent as people struggled to understand how police could shoot an unarmed teenager in broad daylight. "

Outraged??? You Bet - selfish? you have got to be trying to kid me.

[-] 0 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

They are stealing shoes, liquor and weaves and burning down businesses, that is both outrageous and selfish because they are putting their wants before the needs of the community, that sounds pretty selfish to me. They deserve to be arrested and thrown in prison.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

You make no sense - nor does any of the reasoning ( really no reasoning yet ) you have presented for a riot. So Rad ( I take it that that is supposed to be short for radical - which is in meaning - to get to the heart of a matter ) just what is the heart of the matter?

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

People are taking a tragedy and exploiting it for their own personal gain.

Its one thing to go absolutely nuts when something happens and start trashing places and people, lord knows I'm guilty of it.

Its quite another to see the community falling apart so you break open a store and rob the place.

The former I have some respect for it, because its a natural reaction that is not one of really self control. The latter is a calculated decision to get yours while the community burns. Its not acceptable.

This situation has both of those instances in it, I think you two may be speaking more so to each of them as separate entities.

[-] 1 points by RadBrad (12) 1 month ago

Is it so hard to believe people are taking advantage of a horrible situation?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

I don't remember the tuition or vacation being part of the deal lol.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Of being middle class? Hell not 40 years ago upper lower class had that ability.

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

I can relate to it, I don;t even know how many times I've been there. We all deal with different demons, and some of us deal with them better than others. It doesn't make it acceptable in the least.

After its done and the anger has worn off, all you have is a bigger mess to clean up, more people you have upset, and the most likely the underlying things that caused the outrage have not been addressed in the least. Its not good, and its just not acceptable.

[-] -1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Riots are never good - nor are they ever reasonable ( past the point of predicting that they are gonna happen due to economic circumstances that are not being addressed by government ) - the pressure builds and builds and builds and then any little ( let alone a major outrage/injustice perceived or Very Real ) will set it off and then there is no reasoning to deal with it.

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

We really need to restore a sense of community in each and every community in this country. 100mph heading towards a bottomless pit of debt, reliance on multinational corporations for the basics of life and the only value we determine is based off of material things.

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

No material things get a lot of PR = push the public to buy buy buy - but most people still value life - it is the assholes pushing materiality who are also taking employment out of the country and so are pushing many people into poverty.

[-] 2 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 month ago

https://twitter.com/hashtag/IfTheyGunnedMeDown?src=hash

IfTheyGunnedMeDown

which picture of you would they use if they gunned you down?

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

one that includes my killer's faces

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

Very much related:

A 19-month-old child was seriously injured when a grenade was shot into his crib by a SWAT team. Now, those responsible are refusing to pay the child's medical bills. Please sign the petition today!

Demand Habersham County Pay Injured Boy's Medical Bills! Take Action

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

Why does it seem like - that - to get some decent news commentary - that - one has to tune in to Comedy Central?

Stephen Colbert skewers Fox News coverage of Ferguson

by Michael LangenmayrFollow

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

Take the Ferguson Challenge.

The Daily Show: Race/Off and the Ferguson Protest Challenge

by Jen HaydenFollow

[-] 1 points by Ihippy (46) 4 weeks ago

A country of unemployed, bored and angry citizens... what could go wrong? LMAO!!!

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 4 weeks ago
[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Move along move along nothing to see here just keep it moving..........

Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 03:21 PM PDT St. Louis County officer suspended after tape of racist, violent speech surfaces

by HunterFollow

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Cartoon: Post-Racial America Alert

by Mark FioreFollow for Comics

Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 06:50 AM PDT

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Investigate the Ferguson police department The Justice Department needs to investigate the brutal and excessive force used by police in Ferguson. Sign the petition

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Just one more little (?) reason the Ferguson Police Dept. needs to be investigated. ( GET THIS ) ->

Fri Aug 22, 2014 at 05:09 AM PDT Keystone Cops or liars? Ferguson police now say there is no incident report on the shooting

by Barbara MorrillFollow


NO INCIDENT REPORT ???????

NONE ?????

NOTHING ????

Are they waiting to do this later in the hopes that distant ( very distant ) recollection of the events will have improved ( for the killer and fellow cover-ups ) over time?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

"THIS" is "WEIRD" - I just sent out a tweet = @ericholder attorney general - asking why it should take months for charges to be brought and/or pursued against the Mo officer that killed Brown.

This has never happened before - But - The tweet has disappeared. It is like I never sent it out.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

sometimes the tweeter system fails to respond

did you check for the tweet immediately having posted it ?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

did you check for the tweet immediately having posted it ?

Yep - it was not there - I resent a new tweet - and this time it showed up. But I just rechecked it now and it has been pulled again.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

so post here

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

I posted this 1st =

DKAtoday @DKAtoday · 13s

Apparently twitter is censoring comments directed at the attorney general. Whats up with that? Scared to rock the boat twitter?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

I will - it just really sucks that twitter has chosen to sensor comments made to the attorney general. Ya Know?

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

he said something on the radio

i don't recall except that I wasn't moved

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Holder? You have not been moved? Hmmmmmm - not surprised - he has done nothing to date to inspire - well inspire nothing other than derision anyway.

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Twitter is like jart, they don't like what you have to say and censor you.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

You are much less like a bucket of shit. YOU reek like a bucket of shit - but - A real bucket of shit could be used as fertilizer. You? on the other-hand - would likely poison a field for generations.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

irish ?

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Please don't use Twinkle Team style toilet mouthing on this site.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

U are asserting that you have copy write to twinkle team comments? I mean you are the only twinkle/stinkle team to ever invade the forum. Just what makes a comment - like - your - twinkle/stinkle team comments? If you are gonna claim copy write - well - you better clearly define this kind of thing - Hey?

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

No, I certainly do not have a copyright to Twinkle Team style commenting, and certainly never would want to have a copyright to that vile type of commenting style.

I'm saying the Twinkle Team was banned from this place because of their evil use of toilet mouthing.

It's a shame that you bring it back.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

So only you ( again - and - as always ) can be vile in your comments - though I must say that my comparing you to a bucket of toxic shit is much less vile ( in my opinion ) - than the crap you have been spewing at me.

SO.

GFYS.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Stop being a hackivist and a slackivist. Get out in the streets already. Get out of that therapeutic bed. Tweets are worthless.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

not driving downtown on a moments notice

I've been here all day

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

gfys

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Do you know Micah White PHD, founder of Occupy?

You might want to read his piece on clicktivism, a term he coined. The piece is about people like you and how you ruin leftist activism.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/aug/12/clicktivism-ruining-leftist-activism

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

lol

no thanks

[-] 0 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

You don't like Occupy founders and what they have to say?

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

lol

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

gfys

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by turbocharger (1188) 1 month ago

All of em. The shit we are seeing there is nothing compared to what we are doing overseas, nothing.

And when it comes home, as it always does when empire acts like this, people are going to be frozen.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

It is what It is - and that - IS - all too real.

Wed Aug 20, 2014 at 08:56 AM PDT Cartoon: Fear of a black victim

by Matt BorsFollow for Comics

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (248) 1 month ago

I can promise you beyond any shadow of a doubt that the next city to burn will also be one that has lost jobs, residents (mostly white), and revenue over a number of years or decades because other cities have been developed unnecessarily because of greed. This causes the less fortunate minorities (mostly black) to become even more concentrated in neglected communities. When minorities are concentrated and the children are raised in poverty, they become less civilized than the previous generation and less civilized than their white counterparts. They become far more likely to join gangs, rob, vandalize, riot, and lash out against those more fortunate.

This has precisely NOTHING to do with racial tendencies and everything to do with the circumstances under which these people live.

It didn't have to be this way. Once again, the underlying cause is greed.

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

"...they become less civilized than the previous generation and less civilized than their white counterparts."

You've never seen uncivilized white men and women?

You believe being white gives you an angelic complexion?

Of course, when people live in horrid conditions they revolt. This is not only true for minorities. It is true for everyone.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (248) 1 month ago

Of course I have. Of course it's true for everyone but minorities, blacks and Hispanics in particular, were still at somewhat of a disadvantage in the late 70s when the privately held wealth of our screwed up country began concentrating all over again (There was a substantial redistribution from the late 30s to about 1976). Because minorities were still at somewhat of a disadvantage and concentrated in 1976, they have suffered the most as a result of de-industrialization and the relentless concentration of wealth. That's why we're in this mess. Most of the progress we made as a nation prior to 1976 has been lost because of greed. MLK's dream has been shattered because of greed. Not one of us will live to see a recovery. It's only going to get worse.

If the masses had any idea just how horrible and destructive the COW really is, they would forget about race wars and start killing the rich instead. De-industrialization was their bright idea. Abandoning working class communities in order to develop farmland instead was their bright idea. Driving up the cost of healthcare, up the cost of life sustaining resources, and consequently up the cost of US labor was their bright idea. Shipping good jobs overseas in order to reap dirt cheap labor was their bright idea. Damn near every major problem of modern society is rooted in greed.

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

The problem in US is bad education. Most people are daft and buy into ideas of the NRA, conspiracy theories, conservative wing nuts, etc...

I'm not sure if greed is really the biggest problem. Other capitalist societies are doing pretty good. US seems to be particularly fond of the stupid and the violent for some strange reason.

Also, US is getting bigger. With more and more fat people, we can expect a decline in society. More health problems, less mobility, etc...

Well educated and physically healthy societies will crush us I fear.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (248) 1 month ago

We are on a similar page but I do think that a good or at least decent education is still right there to be had in just about every school. But that's too boring. We have video games to play, cell phones to plan our lives around, prescription drugs to abuse, over-paid celebrities to worship, and way too much over-priced crap to stockpile. That's why we're fat and stupid.

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Other countries have all that too and they aren't fat and stupid like Americans. Just go up north and you'll suddenly see a sharp decrease in fatness and people have all the same problems that you describe.

We should be careful when doing analysis, to make sure we really understand the fundamentals of a problem.

For example, this idea that greed is the problem seems a failure to me. Capitalism is more fundamental and will force people to compete and some to get rich while some get poor. Imagine if everyone was honest, then you made them use capitalism as the economic model for their world. Well, rich people would spring out, and poor people too. That is what capitalism does. It creates competition which is based on money. The 1# priority in capitalism is money. There's no way around that. This is the fundamental problem, not this idea that the people are greedy.

I find it dangerous when people think the actors are the problem. this idea of the 1% vs the 99% for example. This idea that the 1% is evil and that the 99% are not. Well, it's not like that. remove the 1% and you'll get another 1% soon enough. Capitalism is the problem, the system, not the actors. And capitalism affects the mind of everyone in all the stages of the economy. There is also struggle and competition for money inside the 99%. Don't fool yourself.

The idea should not be to try and get ride of greed, to change human nature, it should be to find a proper economic system that keeps that greedy nature in check.

Blaming in on human nature, on greed, is a cop out. It's basically saying - look, we humans are like that, nothing can change.

[-] 2 points by StillModestCapitalist (248) 1 month ago

No. It's the greed. The very concept of extreme personal wealth. The 1% currently own more than 40% of all privately held US wealth. MUCH more than the lower 90% combined. That obscene concentration of wealth is the problem in a nut shell. Not the very concept of using money as a medium of trade.

Capitalism served us well from the 40s all the way until at least 1976 before the wealth began to concentrate all over again. In 1976, when the wealth of our country was distributed by a reasonable measure, our major cities were still industrialized, the working class communities were relatively safe, the masses were still reasonable, productive, and responsible. Most households were able to make ends meet with a single provider. Our kids were doing well in school. Great civil rights and race relations progress had been made from the 60s on. Racism was on it's way out. Small business was doing well. Even our public figures, most of them anyway, were down to Earth compared to the pigs we worship today.

I'm in my 40s and I've been observant since I was a kid. I've noticed one hell of a decline in just about every aspect of socioeconomics and one hell of a decline in just about every aspect of the related culture. I've noticed our desire for a nice home, car, yard, and family grow to an OBSESSION with RICHES. It defines America in particular because we are the richest country by far and because we have been subjected to more corrupt influence, at least regarding greed, than any other. Unfortunately, the wealth of our country is horribly concentrated. Those who have it make it more obvious than ever before. Celebrities in particular. It's a very bad influence.

No. The concept of an honest day's work for a fair paycheck is not what corrupts the human mind. It's the concept of extreme personal wealth. That is not to say that I am morally opposed to Socialism. In fact, I think it's a very noble concept. A tightly knit community sharing everything. Beautiful but also somewhat restrictive. I like the concept of pay and personal property. I just don't like the idea of obscene pay and concentrated wealth.

Sorry, we are not going to agree on this one. If you believe in Socialism, then by all means, move to a Socialist country, live as a Socialist as well as you can here, or campaign for Socialism. I won't hold any of that against you. But I believe in modest Capitalism. An honest day of work for a reasonable paycheck.

I see greed, the very concept of extreme personal wealth, as a form of evil and I intend to stand against it until I take my last breath.

[-] 0 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

It's not the greed at all.

It's capitalism. Capitalism works by making money the #1 priority. It's normal that only a small fraction of people own all the wealth. That was predicted long before capitalism started in US, it was predicted by Plato in The Republic. It was predictable because it's one of the effects of capitalism (to create wealth inequality more and more over time).

I suggest a course in economics.

Capitalism is a great system in the first decades, but, over time, wealth is distributed more and more in unequal fashion.

If you don't believe in obscene amounts of money, then you don't really believe in capitalism. If you want to cap what a person can make, then what you want is no longer capitalism. Capitalism works when it is free. When people can build whatever they want to any size. That is the main motivator of capitalism. If you're going to limit the size that a company can become, and limit salaries, then you no longer have capitalism at all.


"I see greed, the very concept of extreme personal wealth, as a form of evil and I intend to stand against it until I take my last breath."

You are not against greed, but against the fundamental principle of capitalism which is that an individual can amass capital in a private manner without interference of the state. An obvious consequence of this is that some people amass large amounts of wealth.

If you wish more interference of the state so that people have similar amounts of money instead of wealth inequality, then what you want is closer to socialism.

[-] 1 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

how about getting off the high horse diego - since you suggest a course in econ i suggest you read "the invention of capitalism." if you think that "Capitalism is a great system in the first decades, but, over time, wealth is distributed more and more in unequal fashion." then you certainly need a course in history - a good one not some lame mainstream shit. i assume you know the term - primitive accumulation. sound benign to you? well it was not. that period of time also points out that your assumptions about greed may be off base. greed is new in human history - there it is again - read a good history.

[-] 0 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Not on a high horse, simply explaining things as they are. Is that how you try to dismiss the ideas and viewpoints of others, using ad hominem and saying they are on a high horse? You should attack ideas, not the proposer.

Greed is new? Sorry, but it is not. Greed has existed since the dawn of man. It is seen in animals. In plants. Every species is greedy. It's one of the most basic tactics for survival. Don't take my word for it, make some tests. Give food to dogs and see if they share every time with ease and no fuss. Try some tests with plants, etc... If you dare to do some serious science, or read about serious science, it won't take long before you realize that all around you, on all levels of life from bacteria to giant whales, living creatures are greedy and take every chance they get to take from others to survive. It's the law of the jungle my son.

Wealth inequality does increase as time goes on. It is a fundamental concept in capitalism. When it starts everyone is equal. Everyone can start small companies. As time goes on, companies get bigger and bigger until monopolies are formed. Monopolies that often control entire sectors of the economy. We have reached a stage where companies are international. McDonald's all around the world.

You should get on a high horse. Your vision is myopic. I recommend taking higher grounds if you wish to be able to see further towards the horizon. It seems you are unable to see further than your nose.

[-] 1 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

still on the horse it seems - dogs and humans are different in case you didn't notice. do you know anything about human societies before farming? seems not. and as for everyone starting off equal - when was that? seems history is not your strong suit either. well i did attack your ideas but you responded to one very poorly - the dogs and humans point and the other not at all - care to discuss primitive accumulation and everybody equal

[-] -2 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

What type of schooling do you have? Did you finish high school? Do you read? You sound like the type of guy who gets all his infos on some lame conspiracy theory websites.

[-] 2 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

and why would it matter that i did not finish high school - we are discussing ideas and yours are that of mainstream elite - i give you black elk - “I did not see anything [in New York] to help my people. I could see that the Wasichus [whites] did not care for each other the way our people did before the nation's hoop was broken. They would take everything from each other if they could, and so there were some who had more of everything than they could use, while crowds of people had nothing at all and maybe were starving. This could not be better than the old ways of my people.” - please do not respond until you have educated yourself better. i am working and do not have time for your silliness

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

"killing and violence are different from greed - stupid! the question on the table in case you forgot is greed and if humans were greedy before farming. nobody said that it was utopia - nobody said there was no violence. ancient primitive societies were communal sharing societies - even if they ate other tribes"

Why do you come to an OWS site if you don't think capitalism is a problem?

[-] 1 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

you are dumber than i thought - that is your attempt at an answer. did i say capitalism is not a problem - didn't mean to. but you were talking about greed and human nature - stay on topic - well i understand. your argument has been destroyed so you must try to create confusion. they teach that in law school - did you do or do understand that bullshit from years of losing arguments

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

"i doubt you can find tribes anywhere that kill others to take their land if their land has plenty of what they need to survive"

Actually, there are many cannibal tribes that still exist in Borneo and Papua that kill for fun, as a kind of ritualistic passage from boys to men.

Your romantic sophomoric and naive ideas that only modern white man is destructive and greedy is not only false, it's completely ridiculous and shows the lack of breath in your thinking.

Myopic vision makes for myopic minds.

Get glasses.

[-] 2 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

killing and violence are different from greed - stupid! the question on the table in case you forgot is greed and if humans were greedy before farming. nobody said that it was utopia - nobody said there was no violence. ancient primitive societies were communal sharing societies - even if they ate other tribes

[-] 1 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

Just to be clear about my comment above. I am not so sure I am against capitalism. Certainly this current form that exits today in the u.s. I imagine we could devise a fo that works for most people

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

"well that was a very weak response - the response of a university educated a student! you do realize that others read what you write no? i would suggest that if you want others to take what you seriously you should try to come up with a ral counter argument - or you might say - i realize that you are right - human societies were sharing communities before farming. nothing to say to black elk?"

But, you are not correct. There always was greed, even before farming. You can stil find tribes in Borneo who haven't developed farming and who have not made contact who are greedy (they kill other tribes for land and resources).

You have cursory knowledge of the issue.

You hold on to these ridiculous romanticized versions of the native indian folks as being nature loving perfect people who do no wrong. This is naive and sophomoric.

This kind of conspiracy theorist cartoon view of the world. White man evil all bad 100%, native indian perfect person all good 100%.

[-] 2 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

there is a difference between survival and greed. i doubt you can find tribes anywhere that kill others to take their land if their land has plenty of what they need to survive. now for sure indians raided other tribes for horses and women but that is a different subject no?

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

The fact that you have no university education shows in your crippled ideas and conservative ideologies. People that have studied properly are tighter in their concepts and much more creative in their thoughts. You basically regurgitate what one would find on mundane conspiracy theory websites. Big pharma rhetoric, Truther material, etc...

This leads you to say nonsense that is easily proven false; like your idea that modern medicine is not scientifically based.

It's sad. The only person you are hurting is yourself.

I suggest you read and educate yourself properly.

[-] 2 points by flip (6819) 1 month ago

well that was a very weak response - the response of a university educated a student! you do realize that others read what you write no? i would suggest that if you want others to take what you seriously you should try to come up with a ral counter argument - or you might say - i realize that you are right - human societies were sharing communities before farming. nothing to say to black elk?

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (248) 1 month ago

I see right through you now sport. You're trying to take the stigma away from greed, placing that stigma instead, on 'the system' thereby, excusing the rich for their immoral and illogical standard. You do so with full knowledge that an act of God would be necessary to bring about Socialism in America. So you have nothing to lose. You're trying to belittle me for my stand against greed. It's a nice trick but still just a trick. Like I said, I see right through you now.

I've done my homework on the issue sport. Go and do yours. You can start with Einstein, Eccles, Reich, Greenspan, and Krugman. All of whom have gone on record with views similar to mine. At least regarding the instability of wealth concentration. Then check the yearly distributions from the late 30s all the way to 1976.

I type the truth. There really was a very effective redistribution resulting in the strongest American middle class ever. But again, your purpose has become obvious. To divert our attention and belittle those of us who won't have our attention diverted.

Now go tell me how wrong I am on healthcare as well.

https://occupywallst.org/forum/my-step-dad-was-misdiagnosed-with-advanced-alzheim/

By the way, I suggest a course in psychology.

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Not trying to take any stigma away from greed. Greed is a problem, perhaps, but it is a human problem that will always exist.

I really believe the problem is the system, capitalism. Like Plato predicted, it's pushing wealth inequality.

I'm not sure how we can blame the rich for being rich. We created a system where people can make companies and become rich. It's capitalism. We can't then be surprised when people become rich. It's part of what the system does.

If you don't think people should be allowed to create companies and get rich, then you have to fight against the system which permits this to happen, i.e. capitalism.

What do you expect, people that say - "Oh, my company is big enough now, I'll stop growing it because I shouldn't be too rich." Please.

So, what's your plan exactly, a "don't be too greedy" course in entrepreneurship 101.

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

progressive tax

government public projects

history 101

[-] -1 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Sounds like StillModestCapitalist just wants classes on "don't be too greedy" and that should solve the problem.

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (248) 1 month ago

I suppose you think that rape is ok because Mother Nature gave the average man the strength necessary to take the average woman against her will. Blame the system right?

Wrong. Blame the pig.

That's what I've been doing for over 8 years now and that's what I intend to do until I take my last breath.

[-] 0 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

You fight actors, not the system. Even if you dislodge a few of those actors, they will simply be replaced by others. Capitalism creates the 1%. It's the system which makes it possible for these greedy folks to get rich. Without a system that encourages greed and rewards it, these greedy people would simply be greedy, they wouldn't be filthy rich as well.

If the system doesn't permit them to become rich and powerful and control others, then I don't really care if some folks are greedy.

What we need is a system that encourages sharing, helping others, etc... Not one like capitalism which encourages greed.

[-] 0 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

Rape is natural (made possible by mother nature) - but we have laws to stop it because we don't think it's good.

Greed is natural - so we should also have laws to stop it, or at least curb it because we don't think it's good.

Right now, it's the opposite. The laws in place, capitalism, encourages greed, it does not try to discourage greed.

[-] 0 points by DiegoAlbanese (-45) from Miami, FL 1 month ago

We decided as a society that rape was not OK, that's why we have laws in place to punish those who rape others.

Likewise, if you think people becoming filthy rich is not OK then you should fight to put laws in place to stop that. In other words, if you don't like what capitalism creates and permits, then don't support it.

Bad analogy, but good luck in your quest to stop greed without fighting against the system which encourages it (capitalism).

[-] 1 points by StillModestCapitalist (248) 1 month ago

Good analogy. Rape and greed are both evil and both entirely self-centered.

No. I will not have my attention diverted by you or anyone else. I don't expect to "stop greed" but I do intend to help keep that particular form of evil in the spotlight. Way over 20,000 entries online, well over 700 calls to talk radio, over a dozen protests and counting. Say that reminds me.

We were all born with a natural instinct to gather and store for survival. A natural instinct to care for family and community. This is human nature.

When modern society was formed, we began to sell out our natural instincts. Survival turned into survival with a little more comfort. Then survival with a little more comfort and a nice view. Then survival with a little more comfort, a nice view, and something pretty to hang around our neck.

Fast forward a few thousand years. With the industrial revolution, came mechanized transportation, modern housing, air conditioning, and television.

We had become somewhat spoiled. Somewhat motivated. Still relatively down to Earth. Still modest enough to appreciate one another, care for one another, and work towards a common goal.

Along the way, the potential for increased personal wealth became more and more intoxicating. It has come to define Western Society. Now, the vast overwhelming majority want to be rich. They want it so badly, they are willing to sell out basic morality to attain it. They WILL sell out basic morality if given the opportunity.

How can I be so sure? That's easy. Human nature plus years of corrupt influence plus opportunity.

Mother Nature did not plan for modern society. She did not plan for the influence of extreme personal wealth. Once attained, we become fully intoxicated. We simply can not process the concept without being corrupted by it. Without compromising our basic morality.

Extreme personal wealth is the single greatest corrupt influence of modern society. With every 'zero' on the paycheck, our basic instincts to care for family and community are compromised.

Those of you who still aren't convinced, consider this:

If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, and take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, would you do it?

If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, OR take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, which would you choose?

Why do sales of lottery tickets skyrocket with jackpots exceeding 9 figures?

Why are there so often, bitter legal disputes over division of lottery jackpots?

Why do victims of auto, work, and medical accidents and their attorneys so often seek tens or hundreds of millions in 'compensation'?

Why do public figures with new products to promote arrange so many calculated publicity stunts?

Why are commercial plugs and brainwash plots inserted into every segment of every TV show?

Why did Oprah Winfrey, Ellen Degeneres, and Dr Phil all endorse Countrywide, a well known predatory lender by name?

Why do corporate entities donate so much money to political campaigns?

Why are syndicated talk radio hosts paid millions to criticize and vilify 'liberals' and 'progressives'?

Why are financially motivated crimes the most common overall, among convicted politicians?

How did the very concept of 'government' become so incredibly corrupt?

How is it that virtually every developed nation in the world has become riddled with fear, instability, and rising debt?

How and why have so many world leaders and those affiliated become even richer even as their own economies falter?

Why are the richest men and women in the world so incredibly determined to get even richer?

How did the world's wealth become so incredibly concentrated?

Why is the concept of a partial redistribution for the good of all so incredibly divisive and controversial?

How can the richest 1% of America sleep at night with full knowledge that they personally own over 40% of it's wealth?

How can the world's richest 1% sleep at night with full knowledge that they personally own over 40% of it's wealth?

How can the world's richest 85 individuals, almost all of whom call themselves 'humanitarians' or 'philanthropists', who collectively own more personal wealth than the world's poorest 3,000,000,000 people combined live with themselves for one second while exhibiting such Earth shattering hypocrisy?

The answer is greed. The obsessive desire for extreme personal wealth.

Not only is the greatest concentration of wealth in modern times the single greatest underlying cause of economic instability around the world. The very concept of extreme personal wealth is the most intoxicating and corrupt influence in the history of mankind.

It will be our downfall.

Https://TheseRidiculousEventsAreStaged.Blogspot.com

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Dumbest Police Chief in America Sat Aug 16, 2014 at 04:20 AM PDT

by ExpatGirlFollow

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

People get shot by cops in san diego

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

tweet

DKAtoday @DKAtoday · 6s

What you will & won't hear from The Fraternal Order of Police. https://occupywallst.org/forum/st-louis-is-burning-what-american-city-is-next/#comment-1043258 … What is Wrong with this picture?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

What you will hear from the fraternal order of police - is a criticism of the president offering his public condolences to a family as well as asking for calm in light of the situation following the killing of an unarmed black youth.

What you won't hear from the fraternal order of police - is any criticism of police departments and officers involved ( guilty of ) in the killing of unarmed black people - anywhere in this country.

Thu Aug 14, 2014 at 03:05 PM PDT Executive director of Fraternal Order of Police takes a poke at Obama over Ferguson comments

by Meteor BladesFollow

[-] 1 points by MattHolck0 (1350) 1 month ago

a government is not of the people if the people can not know what is happening

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

Sun Aug 10, 2014 at 09:54 PM PDT If I were black in America, there's a decent chance I'd already be dead

by David Harris GershonFollow

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 3 weeks ago

Does anyone honestly believe a black man, or teen, or boy would have walked away from this alive?

White man jaywalks with gun...guess what happens?

by Denise Oliver VelezFollow for Daily Kos

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

This comparison would be funny - if it weren't so tragic as well as (worse) apparently popular sentiment in all too many places.

Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 05:22 PM PDT Remember: if some White Right Wing a**hole aims a high-powered rifle at a cop...

by TheHalfricanFollow

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28414) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 month ago

In the meantime - in OHIO ->

Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 11:30 AM PDT Family of man gunned down in Walmart still seeking answers

by Jen HaydenFollow


Should walmart be held complicit in this murder? ( for improper packaging and/or shelving/storage of toys that police could assume were dangerous weapons in an open market place ( store ) )