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Forum Post: Some call me a fool for thinking that supporters of OWS should vote in November and that they should do so in such a way as to affect the outcome.

Posted 2 years ago on Feb. 16, 2012, 6:17 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

But here’s the deal no matter how bad the dems are they’re ten times better than the GOP and the fact is somebody is going to win every election and then that person is going to influence public policy,. I voted for Anderson in 1980, in part because I felt we needed a third way, and in so doing voted against one of the most moral Presidents we have ever had, because I fell into that “they’re all the same” trap. (Look at his post-presidency) When my son was getting his political science degree we spent a good deal of time looking at docs and papers to see how a third party could come into play, and the thing is, without a convention I just don’t see how you do it, and I wouldn’t trust that; even if they let me in the room, I don’t trust myself enough for that let alone them. I urge everyone to get out their microscopes and find a difference because I think this election matters. If I’m a fool for believing in democracy, I can think of worst things to be a fool for.

140 Comments

140 Comments


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[-] 5 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I will not support a party that supports killing people in foreign countries

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

All that evil needs to suceed is for good men to do nothing, not voting or voting for a 5 percenter is the same as doing nothing. I don't support government killing people no matter where they are, but I still make a choice among the best I have available.

[-] 6 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I will vote and post it publicly with my name

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you for voting

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 2 years ago

Dr. King thought that voting was the most important action that he could support.

Even today, Blacks vote almost as much as whites despite lower income. It's around 75% for both groups.

Except for Blacks, lower income voters fall way way off for voting. White poor people vote less than 50% of the time.

King's Poor People's March for summer of 1968 would have been aimed at exactly that pattern.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

we only had a 61% turn out for the last presidential election [I recall even a lower turnout]

demand elections be national and state holidays state elections June 5, Tuesday

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Dr. King used his great oratorical power to convince enough people that voting/marching/speaking-up mattered, and they moved the country, now we need to go further, and it will take all of that at least.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

remember how I remembered you saying this, is the forum real?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

it can be seen on the internet

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I also remember when you posted it, I wonder if you could start a trend, people doing what they say...that would be nice, I think, depends on what they say I guess.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

What are you doing to end the wars? Nothing? You accusing Matt of doing nothing is ironic.

Tell your justification to the thousands of innocent men, women, and children that were killed or injured by US bombs in Pakistan, Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq.

Essentially you're saying, "Sorry to vote for the pro-war candidates... even though we had primaries in 2008 where democrats were running on a platform of peace like Dennis Kucinich. The pro-war candidates financed by Goldman Sachs were the only viable options because those with the most money almost always win. So we have to vote for them."

Sorry... I don't buy it. What excuse will you make in 2016? The same one?

Vote for who you want. But don't try and act like you don't advocate for war when you're voting for those advocating for war.

That kind of thinking doesn't stop the bombs. Voting for people that get millions from Goldman Sachs is counterproductive to wanting to end the fraud in Goldman Sachs. Seriously... think about that for a second.

Just saying.

"Iraq has WMD's." - Bill Clinton 1998

"Iraq has WMD's." - George W Bush 2001

"Iran has WMD's." - Barack Obama 2011

"Iran has WMD's." - Mitt Romney 2011

and like usual the majority of the bought congress agrees with the WMD theory like they did in Iraq. HR 4310 prepares for war in Iran to stop their "WMD" program. Does any of this sound familiar yet?

Sanctions and drone strikes are acts of war!

Sanctions and bombs are counterproductive when it hurts civilians more than a corrupt leader.

500,000 children dead in Iraq from US supported sanctions under Clinton - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4

Hundreds of thousands killed again under Bush in the war against Iraq.

Why aren't the majority of people supporting the guys advocating for public option college, public option healthcare, and utilizing peace instead of bombs? They exist. They run every single election. But people almost always seem to vote for the corporate financed candidates. I don't understand this. It makes no sense.

Forget about the presidential election for a while. Why is our congress so fucking corrupt? That's voting on a state level. Hell a district level even. Why aren't people voting for the good guys?

When I hit my late 30's I'm running for congress. I wouldn't even care if I lost. I'm just so damn sick of seeing these assclowns ruin our country and starting war after war wasting our tax dollars while our bridges collapse and corporations abuse our people.

My congressmen, Lee Terry, Ben Nelson, Jeff Fortenberry, Adrian Smith are all contributing to ruining this country along with the majority of congress. In Nebraska our democrats are like Califrnia republicans and our republicans are like Rick Santorum light.

What choice did the primaries in my state give me for the senate this year? A repub with no prior history in the senate that uses Fox News talking points saying "liberal this and liberal that." Her versus a democrat that voted for the Financial Modernization Act and supported the war in Iraq. What kind of choice is that?

This Deb Fischer woman just keeps saying "We need a Nebraskan in Washington." All the time she says that. I just want to go up to her and say "Bitch! That's how electing senators from our state works! Every senator we've had in Washington has been a Nebraskan!"

Sorry. Got kind of ranty.

People should definitely vote. They just need to vote smart. Everyone needs to start paying attention in the primaries. The number of people that vote in primaries... especially for congress and such... is way too low in comparison to population size.

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Exactly. "Be the change you want to see"....

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Todd Akins anti women comments should illustrate most clearly for you that we must keep these neanderthals out of office.

You continue to encourage progressive OWS supporters to give up their right to vote will result in the election of more right wing wackos.

Please Stop.!

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Sometimes I can agree with you. You are right here.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Well thank you very much. I'm not sure what we disagree on. (there are so many people who I'm fightin with.) but whatever it is I'm sure I'm right.

LoL . Just kiddin' Sorry. Thx again. Keep the neanderthals out.!

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Not once do I mention "not voting" so your entire comment here is BULLSHIT

I do vote and I urge people to vote for those who oppose war... not start new ones.

Instead of constantly accusing me of supporting republicans which has no factual standing... why don't you debate the FACTS i've presented.

Let me know when Obama bombs less than 4 countries in a year and I'll stop saying he's contributing to the new Neocon war agenda started under Bush.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Pres Obama has reduced our military killing from 1 Million+ to thousands. Those numbers are more important that your silly "4 country" measure.

I care about people. You do not? That is how you measure real progress. You ignore this real progress because you are an anti dem partisan?

You focus on the silly "4 country" to show meaninglessly that Pres Obama is worse than Bush who only bombed 3 countries. ridiculous partisanship.

Pres Obama has ended one of Bushs war, And is almost done with the other. Pres Obama has invaded no other countries. Pres Obama has resisted conservative war mongers pressure to invade Iran, & Syria (Today we stated we would take action if Assad used Chem weapons, is that ok w/ you?)

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Real progress is ending the wars.

Also there is not a dead body count in Afghanistan where Obama doubled the troop size when he first took office. There wasn't a dead body count in Afghanistan under Bush and there isn't one now.

You forget about Libya where US missiles along with NATO destroyed 3 major cities leaving people without an economy, healthcare, which cause death and disease... and supported rebels with ties to Al Qaeda and Hamas... of which these rebels tortured blacks and raped women.

But please keep ignoring these truths.

It's really sad that you think thousands of murders are acceptable. The number is much higher than that. Don't forget about the injured and the homes destroyed.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO STILL BE IN AFGHANISTAN. We have won nothing from these wars.

Murder and continuation of the Neocon Bush war agenda has no excuse. Imperialism is wrong.

There are better solutions than sanctions and bombs that hurt and kill civilians. I support anyone who thinks peace and diplomacy is the better option. How is that negative?

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

Then you support Pres Obama diplomatic efforts in Syria and Iran!

I didn't say thousands of deaths is ok! That's you lying about my position. I say it represents real progress from the 1 million+ previously.

I didn't forget Libya. That was a success. We are not responsible for every act of the rebels. We do not check who is amongst the rebels. We did not even lead that mission. It is good to use our military against brutal dictators. Instead of Oil wars and endless "war against terror".

From 1 million+ to thousands! Ended 1 war, ending the other, started no new wars. Those are the facts. This Pres is NOT a war monger. He is undoing the war mongering of the republicans. And doing it with minimal death, and incredible deft.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

Diplomatic efforts in Iran? How is surrounding a country with warships and shooting civilians diplomatic? Sanctions are not diplomacy. Need I remind you of the sanctions under Bush Sr. and Clinton that killed over a million people in Iraq through starvation and disease? How is ruining their economy diplomatic? How does that help their people? What WMD's? Why do Romney and Obama agree about Iran?

Iran is the Cheney prize in the center of the Neocon war agenda.

Libya was a new war dude. Bombing yemen and pakistan are new wars. You have no idea what war is. Drone strikes are war. Libya could have been handled differently with less death and destruction. Why the picking and choosing? What about the people of Congo? Over 1 miilion people have been killed there in the past 10 years. Much worse than Gaddafi ever did. Maybe you should research the Neocon war agenda.

Wake up dude.

[-] -1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

The neocons didn't plan on an islamic govt in Libya, and Egypt right? So I think we are moving away from the plan adequately.

Libya, Yemen, Pakistan war? C/mon it does not compare to 1/2 a million troops on the ground invaded and occupying for a decade. They aren't the same so they can't be called the same thing.

Yeman, Pakistan are more like CIA operations. Limited police actions. With the approval of the given govt. So nice try but nope. Not war. Maybe you should look it up.

Libya- That was more france and Britain. We just provided some air support. Nothing like a war. We were helping the people overthrow a brutal dictator. That's a good thing.

Congo. You want us to use the military in Congo? Now I'm confused. maybe you don't care about war. Maybe you just want to criticize Pres Obama.

Thats about right.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

when the government gets you to believe that bombing a country is not war... you have gone insane.

there is no reason to continue talking to you

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 2 years ago

I've worn you out!

How can it be war if the country being bombed approves of the bombing?

That YOU call it war betrays an anti dem partisanship. War is what your boy Bush did. What Pres Obama is doing in Yemen, and Pakistan is approved by those respective govts. Sorry Thats a very important element in determining war?

But I, like you am against the "war on terror" drone bombings. Where we differ is in that I believe Pres Obama is the best choice (of our 2 possibilities) to end the "war on terror".

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 2 years ago

Here is the lying technique used by Mitt Romney and his team. You get to see how they construct their big lies. Think Obama is "disappointing" then behold a sociopath in full flight !

Why does R-money lie about a dead priest? Critical problem, soon as R-money gets through the convention and has the nomination in his hand. Mary Jo Kopechne and Mrs. Leola Anderson. 1969 and 1968. Same difference. (Except Ted Kennedy admitted responsibility from the next morning.)

http://occupywallst.org/forum/mary-jo-kopechne-and-leola-anderson-rest-in-peace/

Monseigneur Albert Marie, a vehicular manslaughter in 1968 in France, and panic to blame this death on anyone but the Mittster.

Amazing the bald lies that get generated and then published without checking in NY Tmes and WaPo. E.g.: head-on collision with cars going 70 mph and 40 mph -- there's a pic of the actual damage and it is consistent with Romney's car hitting a stopped Mercedes. !

Romney and his team of con artists had no idea there was a picture of the two wrecked cars in the archive when they built their Big Lie in the 1990s. He embellished it even worse by 2007 when the story went national.

Occupy Security page at Facebook has pics and more.

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

would you have supported fdr?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I do not believe it was necessary to move to war time manufacturing in order to distribute resources in the US to it's people

[-] 0 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

did you read the question i asked you?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

sorry, just guessing at a follow up question.

I support creating government jobs to build and run hospitals

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

You said that you do not support a party that supports killing people in foreign countries. I asked you if you would have supported FDR ( WWII)?

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

lots of countries bombed the shit out of other countries during world war two

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by B76RT (-357) 2 years ago

You didn't answer my question.

[-] 3 points by cJessgo (729) from Port Jervis, PA 2 years ago

Facts, in America you can still think how you want.Sometimes the thought police get a little pissie.But thats because they generaly want people to think like them.You will always be fine with me as long as you do not try to undermine Occupy as some posters try.Many thanks for your posts.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you for that input, it is people like you that make it worth while……

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Here’s a few facts:

This is NDAA 2013

http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39897

of the 120 nays, here I got 11 Rs, with about 2/3 Ds against

This repels indefinite detention:

http://votesmart.org/bill/votes/39904

182 supported this about 12 Rs, and about 90% of the Ds

[-] 2 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

Hello fool.

Cross post from "Here we go again, Cuts in Social Security and Medicare disguised as payroll tax" (only fools don't realize the cuts in the payroll tax are a stealth attack on Social Security and Medicare -- Obama works for our enemies) http://occupywallst.org/forum/here-we-go-again-cuts-in-social-security-and-medic/ :

Obama = traitor Trojan horse -- could there be any stronger proof? It's just amazing.

It's obvious that Obama was hired by his puppet masters for his silken tones and smooth delivery. But rape is still rape even if vaseline is used.

His whole purpose is to gut the opposition to his puppet master's anti-middle class, anti-American way of life, pro-globalist, pro-war policies. After all, he's a Democrat, he's one of ours (insert sarcasm thingy).

Cicero: "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague."

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I don't believe Santorum or Romney would be better, in fact I think they would be much worse, but if that's your opinion you're entitled to it.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Speaking of traitors:

Nader the traitor has crawled under a rock,

It’s the only place safe from the things that he wrot.

As millennia approached us, we had one last shot,

To keep the planet we’re on from getting, too damn hot.

But Nader thought better his name should be heard.

And Gore was left standing with only his word.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 2 years ago

I'm with you here. Back then the takeover of our government by the forces of evil was not so complete. Nader was immeasurably useful to those of evil intent. The stolen election of 2000 (Nader helped make it close enough for it to be stolen) was a huge step in the destruction of constitutional government in the U.S.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Then in 04, in Ohio they put machines where they wanted votes and didn't where they didn't.

Some people think I don't know how bad it is, I just know it's bad enough to start doing something about it.

[-] 2 points by BearDickinson (125) from Ewing, VA 2 years ago

How can a 3rd party in our USA get a Prez elected as long as the electoral college requires 270 votes to win? among present day USA voters, we have about 1/3 republiwont$, 1/3 democant$ and 1/3 independent. -if our present political situation can be saved - i would like to see these federal election changes - question is - will the ones in power give up that power ? history is a harsh teacher and the answer is likely - NO ! 1-get rid of the electoral college - popular vote rules ! 2-get the money out of politics with publicly funded elections. 3-term limits for ALL in congress - is the prez not limited to 2 terms ? 4-get back to basics with a paper ballot so that results that can truly be verified. if Canada can do this - why can't we ? 5-stop all this nonsense with voter eligibility obstruction. voting should be made easier, not harder. democracy is NOT a spectator sport...... Election reform - http://www1.american.edu/ia/cfer/ Get the money out - End this plutocracy/corporatocracy that our country has become ! http://unitedrepublic.org/

[-] 3 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 2 years ago

I support your proposed changes with the exception of term limits which I oppose.

Technically, a president can be elected without winning 270 electoral votes. If no candidate wins a majority, the top 3 are then voted on by the house. It has only happened that way once though.

Election of president by popular vote would require a constitutional amendment so that would be hard to do. An improvement, which can be implemented by the states, is a form of proportional electoral votes based on the popular vote in that state. I think Maine and one other state have this. At least this prevents the 'winner take all' scenario within the states.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

even in those places in think it is by congressional district which still clogs thing up a bit.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I'd like to see them at least try a Constitutional admendment to get rid of the electoral college. The other stuff is all good too, I'd have to think about and see the term limits rules, if we had fair elections could work.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22104) 2 years ago

I agree with what you say here. Dems are better than Reps and third party is not viable at this point.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Wow I can see why the trolls call you a hardcore dem sellout, you allow reason to influence you're thoughts.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22104) 2 years ago

You know me, factsrfun. LOL!

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - we do - no deception in your contributions - Good Morning BW.

[-] -2 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

GeriTroll! Looking forward to another day of Dig-Me's are we?

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Mae'r gwirionedd yn wahanol

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

mornin' DK

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Mornin frf.

Ah the stench of troll brain smoldering in the early morning.

Nothing quite like it - well except I suppose the smell of burning rubber.

This will no doubt become a trigger for a nostalgic feeling/memory some day.

[-] -3 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

GeriTroll! Well now that you and Factsrfun have checked in with each other, time to get busy pouring more pro-regime pollution into the forum, eh?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

What you have no friends? I feel for you man, I do.

[-] -2 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

I have no need to pretend that pseudoanonymous forum sock puppets are my "friends". Sad that you do...

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (23961) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Mae'r gwirionedd yn wahanol

[-] -3 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results - like voting for the lesser of two evils in staged two-party elections - defines "insanity", Factsrfun, not "reason".

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Marching in the streets for peace and brotherly love and stickin’ it to the MAN.

Yeah we’ve never done that before…

Maybe this time we will get our heads out of the sand and kill this beast that keeps sending us to war and stealing our government maybe this time we will do something about the wealth issue, but the GOP will be there protecting the 1% every step of the way no doubt.

[+] -4 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

Change "the GOP" to "the Democrats and Republicans" and you have a reasonable statement. Otherwise its just more of your pro-regime propaganda.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

then I'd be doing the same thing we've always done, insanity

this time it must be different, this time we take them down, one at a time, that's how it can be done, that’s why they spend so much money saying "they're all the same"

[+] -4 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

The Democrats and Republicans ARE the same, you pro-regime scum. Sure, they intentionally differ on the wedge issues. But what the Democrats and Republicans agree on - like NDAA 2012, HR347 and HR658 - is far more damaging and dangerous than what they don't.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and with your help they stay in power, does that make you feel good, or is it just a paycheck?

[+] -4 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

The Democrats are supposedly "in power" now, although really the corporations are in power either way. And it is YOU trying to maintain the status quo, pro-regime plant, not me.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

When NO Republican holds public office anywhere, only then will we be safe.

OK less than 30 in the Senate should do.

[-] -2 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

Again your mask comes off, pro-regime plant, and correction is required:

When NO corporate controlled politician - Democrat, Republican or otherwise - holds public office anywhere, only then will we be safe.

And f--k the "safe" part. Replace that nasty word with "FREE".

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you for stopping by it's always nice to "see" you.

[-] -3 points by gwirionedd (-369) 2 years ago

And so boil the frogs...

[-] 2 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

We can start planning for 2016. Seriously, if we start building the groundwork for a real third party NOW, we can get Senators and Congressmen voted in that actually represent us, and maybe even a President in 2016!

Its not going to be easy, and the problem will be that too many people will just choose the "easy option" anyway (Vote Democrat/Republican)

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Not under the Constitution really it is tough to see how, three parties exist at the same time. Every time a new party has spurn up, and I could be wrong, it has been the result of one of the two main parties becoming so weak the larger party splits into. So the first step is to get rid of all the Republicans.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

A reason a third party becomes irrelevant once they have won, is that it takes a majority to rule, and say you have four parties, two with a quarter of the vote, one with thirty percent and one with twenty percent, it takes a majority of fifty percent plus one to rule each house. So what usually happens is that coalitions are struck and they are usually stricken between ideologically similar factions, or out of a necessity to grab the majority. If the two parties that got a quarter of the vote united, worst case scenario, the vice president would be the harbinger of legislation in the senate. Most likely the thirty percent party will caucus with one of the parties with a quarter of the vote. this leaves the two parties that make up the minority caucusing on the other side of the isle. It is because we are a majority take all republic, that makes a third party hard to pull off. You'd have to capture a good chunk of the thirty three senate seats and at least a quarter of the house seats, or else your party would just be along for the ride.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thanks Jesse, all that you said plus the one winner per geographical area, state, district; kind of drives eveything down to two, but hey lots of people don't get any, we better start paying attention before we become just like them (if we're not already but as I said above I think we have to keep trying if we keep saying there's no difference someday it might be true)

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 2 years ago

The best logistical way to change things is to get nominees into the state legislators offices, from there they effect the redistricting process, which would create more vulnerable districts. It'd take a decade or two, but eventully you'd have more sway in effecting Federal Politics.That's one thing I think people forget is that the Koch brothers have been manipulating politics since they took over the profession from their pappy. My point is that it takes longer than a few economic down turns to get the kind of consolidation the moneyed interests have procured from our political process.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I agree, I have been to some of the get togethers to meet the caditdates. The problem seems we only get one person to stand for each district and the meetings are all sweetness and social I'd like some more policy talk so I could see where they stand. But it is slow and the best you can hope for sometimes is to catch someone's ear for a bit.

[-] 0 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

Instant Runoff Elections.

Meanwhile, we vote to keep Cons out of our government in local, state and national offices, for the sake of the country and our posterity.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I like that too

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

These four men REQUIRE that you vote for Obama

John Roberts +
Antonin Scalia +
Clarence Thomas +
Samuel Alito

If you don’t believe them,
…….ask Newt Gingrich or John McCain about Citizens United
OR
…….ask the family of any soldier killed in Iraq about bush v Gore

OR

Are you afraid to
……tell me why supreme court appointments make no difference ?


If you cannot see the difference between the democrats and the Rs –
.……and believe that President Gore would invade Iraq, or NOT read his PDBs –
…………..………………………………………………..you are blind


If you want to do what Davis & Lee failed to do
……………..……………………………………….…….you are crazy


[-] 3 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Welcome to the thread!!!

[-] 2 points by OccNoVi (415) 2 years ago

Romney has blamed a priest for killing Leola Anderson in 1968.

Why does R-money lie about a dead priest? Mary Kopechne and Mrs. Leola Anderson.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/mary-jo-kopechne-and-leola-anderson-rest-in-peace/

Monseigneur Albert Marie, a vehicular manslaughter in 1968, and the victim: Mrs. Leola Anderson.

Amazing the bald lies that get generated and then published in NY Tmes and WaPo in 2007. E.g.: head-on collision with cars going 70 mph and 40 mph is claimed -- but there's a pic of the actual damage !

Occupy Security page at Facebook has pics and more.

[-] 1 points by fiftyfourforty (1077) from New York, NY 2 years ago

The last time I voted was 1968 I wrote in Eldridge Cleaver i was a GI then. This time I am registered to vote and will vote against the Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, anti black racism, the Tea Party. I am voting to try to give them a black eye.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

yeah we just missed it in 2000, I could see a very clear choice, I hate to be right sometimes, hell pretty much any time, these days the truth is things are bad, it hurts to think of what might of been....

[-] 1 points by tomdavid55 (93) 2 years ago

See also:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTQ1WOC9RgY

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

few people sent me this one, here's one from 25 ears back or so:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chagwk0IyA0

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

I'll be voting for a third party candidate, my vote is a vote against big money, that's the most important reason too vote

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Nader the traitor has crawled under a rock,

It’s the only place safe from the things that he wrot.

As millennia approached us, we had one last shot,

To keep the planet we’re on from getting, too damn hot.

But Nader thought better his name should be heard.

And Gore was left standing with only his word.

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

nice poetry

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

about ten minutes, had to tweak the syllable and "hard beat" a little but I think I got it right, thank you (original used “word” instead of “his word” wanted double meaning of truth and speech/movie but decided it was too cryptic)

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

that's good

problems run deeper than parties

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

of course they do

if he'd said, he's bad, he's good, I'm better, hell I would of voted for him, I live in AZ

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

I did vote for Gore (He's a Harvard Man like Bush, Obama and Romney)

some GA members don't like to talk about politics

say the subject is decisive

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I wanted to go to Harvard, but Stanford was my first choice, Yale? never like the name I think.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Revolution is a very decisive business, first you have to decide there is a problem, then you have to decide what the problem is, then you have to decide who is adding to the problem who is trying to make it better, then you have to decide if you are willing to get involved, then the biggest most decisive decision of all you have to decide if you are willing to upset some people.

I always say I am willing to welcome any who are willing to raise taxes on the wealthy; I just don’t find any in the Republican Party. If you do, please welcome them for me.

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

isn't the word devisive?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

depends on what you mean

[-] -2 points by DJnamaste (-6) 2 years ago

It's "to" vote, and this site is not meant for political talk.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

So people can only speak about totpics you apporve of?

[-] 1 points by writerconsidered123 (344) 2 years ago

thank you mr. grammer and the whole post is political so take it up with the post original creator

[-] -1 points by DJnamaste (-6) 2 years ago

You're welcome. I am always glad to help a fellow protester with his English. I already talked to the OP about the problem with his post. However, I think it's also important to remind you about the problem with your comment.

Remember, each time you taint OWS with politics it loses one breath and become closer to death. Love OWS, keep it real, keep it an apolitical protest that works from the outside!

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

all sides

[-] -1 points by DJnamaste (-6) 2 years ago

You like it from all directions and that's OK. For OWS, only from the outside.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 2 years ago

You do not have to support American militarism to recognize that Obama's life would end within two weeks of him trying to cut it off at the knees.

No president has unilateral power.

This one seems to be doing what he can to minimize civilian casualties and military casualties. Not that there's much that anyone can do when our soldiers are trained for war by playing video games.

You've seen the helicopter video ????? Multiply that by 100,000.

And it's hot time around the old camp fire at the White House, every time they blast some Al Qaeda terrorist. That's human nature -- fun to kill people when you're not in the line of fire yourself.

Same behavioral triggers that sell $30-billion a year, maybe much more today, in the video games. Kill muthafucka !!!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I'd be lying if I didn't say I was glad they got Bin Laden, but I don't claim perfection,

The Royals need a strong military to impose their will; they do a good job of convincing the rest of us (for the most part) I'd like to see OWS change that.

[-] 1 points by OccNoVi (415) 2 years ago

Hell folks, spending $200-billion on the military would let us dominate the Western Hemisphere and scare the crap out of everybody else.

FOLLOW THE MONEY !!

The whole of DoD and 90% of intel are luxury goods. Huge markups. Along with The Fed giving out zero-interest loans (considering inflation to calculate true expense to borrow money) and the various tax code giveaways, the money to "defense" contractors makes up the Big Three for redistribution.

Power may have something to do with it. $$$$$$ rules.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

They should vote in November. I will be.

They should just vote smart! Voting for who Goldman Sachs supports is counter productive. Seriously... think about that for a second. Goldman Sachs likes both candidates so much that they're giving millions to campaigns. And then the corporate media tells people those 2 are the only options.

People better wise up in the primaries in 2016. I will lose faith in mankind if the democrats vote for another pro-war candidate instead of the guy with the perfect voting background that didn't support GWB era policies like the patriot act.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Why should the democrats listen to you if you are there for them in 2012?

Voting smart, means defeating Republicans, if you don’t know that by now, keep studying you will get there.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 2 years ago

If Obama wanted my vote again he shouldn't have bombed so many countries.

I'll be voting D for my congressman. Lee Terry is going down! But I can't vote for Obama because of his terrible foreign policy and his works with the big banks. I will not support these bombings any longer.

I don't blindly support anyone. The whole US vs THEM is a classic propaganda tactic.

We've gotten to a time in our country where we need to defeat the R's and a majority of the D's. Corporatism runs deep.

Blind support will get you nowhere. The government works for us... I don't work for them. If they want my vote they gotta earn it.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

would someone like to talk about this or is that you are scared to

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Don't forget - Ross Perot received 19% of the popular vote; even AFTER he dropped out of the race! He dropped out because of threats to his family. What a "democracy" we have - Mafia style!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

If Warren Buffet would run, today he might be an even bigger threat to the system. But we don't have anyone like that, if someone starts pulling over 30% in polls, I'll certainly give them a good hearing, but I couldn't have gone for Perot, Here in AZ we turned out one R for another with a recall, sometimes getting someone a little better is the best you can do.

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[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

Hiring the same two companies to write policy, and watching them screw it up relentlessly with no shame, many times doing things that NO ONE wants, for 100 years is a mockery of democracy. And a mockery of our Republic.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and that was a mockery of an argument

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 2 years ago

you're right. Keep doing what they want us to, what they have been convincing us to do the last 40 years-simply focus on the other one.

It should start working anytime now.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

yeah we've NEVER tried third party before:

Nader the traitor has crawled under a rock,

It’s the only place safe from the things that he wrot.

As millennia approached us, we had one last shot,

To keep the planet we’re on from getting, too damn hot.

But Nader thought better his name should be heard.

And Gore was left standing with only his word.

[-] 0 points by asauti (-113) from Port Orchard, WA 2 years ago

Voting is GOOD. It's "Using Your Voice".

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

"It's not the vote that counts. It's who counts the votes." - Josef Stalin

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Damn it Sparky, I knew you do good research, of course you and Stalin are completely correct (wait till the righties get a hold of me saying “Stalin was right”) I would LOVE IT if come this November OWS’ers all over the country signed up for those polling jobs the retirees always fill, it would be awesome if we were on the inside for once.

[-] 1 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 2 years ago

Understand, I didn't post the quote because I admire the man. It's an example of how corrupt politicians think.

IMO, the vote tampering doesn't happen at the election official's level. The officials are given a master boot-up card and when they boot the machine, the card installs a vote stealing program that erases itself after the votes are tallied. No one is the wiser and there's no paper trail. I vote by mail to avoid the machines; but I don't think it makes much difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwWP-N1HqT0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs

“What better way to enslave a man than to give him the vote and tell him he’s free.” -Albert Camus

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

One should always be careful about who to admire. I agree with you about these machines I don’t trust them too much. I do think that there is a lot more work done on the side of keeping people from the polls, ID laws, neg. adds, distrust of the system than there is in actual vote sealing once they’re cast, but hey I’ve seen the pic of LBJ on the back of that pickup truck, so I’m no fish.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

and like some other things in life you actually get better at it the more you do it (once per election)

[-] 0 points by Pujete (160) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Do the right wing....Write in Ron Paul.

There's no other choice.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

In a Ron Paul world, if people are willing to work for food, would you and he be OK with that?

[-] 0 points by Pujete (160) from New York, NY 2 years ago

"In a Ron Paul world, if people are willing to work for food, would you and he be ok with that?"

Better to work for food than fiat money.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I understand your position, thank you for joining in the discussion.

[-] 0 points by Pujete (160) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Thanks for understanding.

[-] 1 points by Spade2 (478) 2 years ago

Obama! Four more years! Four more years!

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[-] -1 points by adaldk (-11) 2 years ago

moron

[-] 2 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

We shouldn't have to insult people when we disagree with their politics. what is it about the President you disagree with?

[-] -1 points by adaldk (-11) 2 years ago

his distaste for american exceptionalism.

[-] 2 points by VQkag (930) 2 years ago

Oh well. there you go. In fact the President believes strongly that the United States is the greatest nation on earth!. That we are the last best hope for humanity! That we are the indispensable nation. No other country can lead as we can. The President believes that and he leads the world with that in mind. The suggestion that he doesn't believe in american exceptionalism is just republican propaganda.! Not based in any truth.

[-] 1 points by Spade2 (478) 2 years ago

This is not the Soviet Union, this is America, let's keep it that way. Obama 2012

[-] -2 points by adaldk (-11) 2 years ago

obama 2012 = fascist germany

[-] 1 points by Spade2 (478) 2 years ago

Hardly, and Romney 2012 = worker revolution

[-] -1 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 2 years ago

It's pointless to vote, just more of the same. We need to keep protesting!!

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Woe is me, woe is me….all is lost, all is lost…..

[-] -1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

And they will,. in as much as that silly system lets people participate we will,. however we recognise that the level of participation is insufficient to the task, and the 'lesser' evil is still evil.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

If we are "insufficient" to bring down the GOP, the "system" is quite safe, on that you are correct.

[-] 1 points by jph (2652) 2 years ago

nope, when either hand of the single party wins, the single party wins! the dems are the left, repugs are the right, they are both still hands of the bankster/corporate/military party. Partisanism is the same denialism over and over,.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

when one of those hands gets cut off, things will change

[-] -1 points by JIFFYSQUID92 (-994) from Portland, OR 2 years ago

If I've said it once, I've said it a millions times, perfection only exists in lies and delusion.

That said we have nothing but a choice between better and worse.

After eight torturous years of seriously running the country straight into the ground (30+ as a hobby), Republicons have given up on being a legitimate American political party. The Cons have transformed into a cult, and an evil few in the 1% is their Charlie Manson. They shun the 99%, workers, and science; and they embrace the fucking John Birch Society and a New-McCarthyism OPENLY! I don't know how Cons could get any worse, except if they routinely sabotaged and held the country hostage for short term political gain, but that's all they do. Do you HATE and have a HUGE death wish for America? Vote RepubliCon.

That gives Dems a very low bar to clear to be better. But they are much better in every way. They had to pay some Con ransoms, but it was to save the lives of a lot of 99%ers, definitely not for political gain. The Democratic Party is much better than the Cons, and if we participated instead of bitching at it, we could make it much better.

But no party or movement will ever be perfect.

Let's work on OWS' image and make sure signs are loud and clear and American flags are clean and abundant, and let's get out the vote, rock the vote, in 2012!!

Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!! ©

Image & Vote! Image & Vote! "We the 1%" Is NOT What They Wrote!! ©

[+] -4 points by smellyowsloozer (-51) 2 years ago

Yep. You're a fool. Stay in your tent, ....blow whistles, bang drums.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6477) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you.