Forum Post: Shifting The Power, Taking Our Country Back
Posted 10 years ago on July 23, 2013, 11:57 p.m. EST by LordErb
(-15)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Last week I was complaining about how the corporate conglomerates of the world have such a strangle hold on the planet. Constantly complaining how much it costs to do business then rake in record profits. Meanwhile everyday people are struggling to get by. Working two and three jobs, if their lucky their children being raised by day care. If not children stay home without supervision raising themselves. Mean while the prison populations grow. Anyway, to my point, so after I was done ranting I was asked "whats your plan? How are you proposing to change it?" I had no answer at the time and felt awful about it. Then it hit me, what keeps these corporate behemoth's alive? Money! People need to quit buying, maybe for a whole week. Occupy had little affect because as protesters were sleeping the park, Richie Rich is sleeping his penthouse without a care in the world. I believe not a boycott but just a general don't buy would get their attention better. We pay them, they need us. Example: You have a parade float, big one. Carrying 100 of the countries wealthiest people. This float is being pulled by 200 million people. The 200 million are fed just enough to keep them pulling. WHY WOULDN'T THOSE 200 MILLION PEOPLE JUST TURN AROUND AND SHOW THE 100 THAT THEY ARE THE ONES PULLING, DOING MOST OF THE WORK AND DEMAND FAIR TREATMENT OR THEY ARE NOT PULLING ANYMORE! Whether the 100 listen or not their free ride ends. We need not even get into why hundreds of millions of people would willingly put themselves in such bondage when they actually hold the power. I hope this makes sense and respectively I say, just think about it.
You're going to have to go back to the drawing board and figure out something that will actually work. Try living without what is financed and produced through the 1%. From the very low to the high tech products the typical consumer isn't capable of producing what he or she wants or needs on their own. Try producing your own clothing, raising or hunting down your own food, make your own computer or care for yourself when injured or ill.
Certainly the 1% can be hurt a little by the majority consuming less, but the action will also hurt workers. Your plan could lead to a general world depression and world revolution, but the outcome there isn't certain. The last world depression gave us more authoritarian governments then freedom, and most of the rich weathered that storm just fine.
I completely agree. But such is the problem, do you not have enough clothing? people could continue buying food, computer care is a tricky one, but movements have a way of catching on, those tech savy might sympathize. This I believe is the answer, like being on strike with a unjust employer those involved must stick it out.
Those were just several examples, in our society the list of necessities and luxuries we buy because we can't produce on our own is endless. Eventually these things must be replaced and few lack the skills to manufacture items that have come to be seen as necessities.
Yes strikes can work, but my point about the ultra rich is that they have the resources to outlast any boycott. They will also survive any depression caused by the unemployment from a prolonged stoppage in spending. The general population, on the other hand, don't have the funds or the skills to replace necessary items as they wear out.
The solution is to provide a viable alternative to the current system.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-cooperative-union/
Then people could abandon the corporations altogether.
LeoYo, that would be the ultimate answer, but you know the truth, that is a bite bigger than a new revolution can take. Just buying what you need, with a large population on board would be enough at first. The 1% would feel the change in their fucking diet and bend.
"All exploitation is based on co-operation, willing or forced, of the exploited. However much we may detest admitting it, the fact remains that there would be no exploitation if people refused to obey the exploiter. But self comes in and we hug the chains that bind us." -Mahatma Gandhi http://occupywallst.org/forum/free-democracy-amendment/#comment-535263
The problem with the 200 million not pulling anymore is the fact that they're not feeding themselves. So long as they're not feeding themselves, they have to pull because they have to be fed.
People stockpiling for a couple of weeks or any amount of time in order to stop patronizing a business will only increase that business' sales, giving it a big boost in profits equivalent to the time for riding out the boycott. For any boycott that is expected to come to an end, a business can wait out the boycott. It's only when people can threaten a permanent or ongoing boycott that a business has to consider their demands. In order to threaten an ongoing boycott, people have to have alternatives to the business they're boycotting because boycott or not, people will always remain being consumers.
Co-ops, although not a cure-all, are one of the best ideas put forth on this forum, in my opinion.
Gnomunny, splain?
What's to 'splain? I like the sound of co-ops, the little I've read. LeoYo and a couple others have posted on it extensively and gave a number of examples, like that window company (don't remember the name right off) here in the states and Mondragon over in Spain. And I'm assuming they're not a cure-all because I imagine there are instances where they wouldn't fit the business model. But not being an expert in business by any stretch, it could be possible they could be adapted to fit most or all businesses. The businesses people actually need, that is, like manufacturing. I doubt an investment bank would work that way though.
On a slightly similar note, I feel that when the primary purpose of businesses was to supply a quality product or service at an affordable price, times were good. But when the primary purpose became shareholder profits instead, that started the slow decline. I do realize that profit was always a factor though. But like I say, I don't know a ton about business or finance. Not yet anyway.
Munny, you crazy. LMFAO!
You don't like the idea of co-ops?
No, I dig it. Just as a educated individual we need to focus. We must light the match of revolution! FOCUS, MESSAGE, and RESOLUTION! HOW TO WE LEARN TO FLY? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8ByjoK3VVc&list=PLBF76CA76359F596A
Sometimes that's not so easy, though, for me. A lot of things to consider, a lot of things going on. A lot of pieces of the puzzle. And seeing as most everything is interconnected in one way or another, there are ripple effects to anything you do. So any plan would have to consider as many of those as possible.
Good YT clip.
Your a good man munny, stay real.
Thanks, man. Some people here might disagree with you, but I don't let it bother me, heheh.
Fuck EM! Whether they agree or not the answer never changes.
That's how I feel about it.
You should start by not using or paying ANY of those evil ISPs, mobile or land line.
That would be a great start for you.
Interesting solution, but it assumes the 200 million pulling the float all actually fed up. As much as people may complain, I don't believe the vast majority are anywhere near willing to do anything about it.
Maggie your spot on. But we need to wet their whistle on what could be gained. EQUALITY! The minute the one percent feels a slight change in their diet they will brake.
Super great suggestion
If for nothing else, participating will help one balance one's own check book.
Be a Luddite. It gives you lot's of hobbies and doesn't feed the machine.
Protesting machines that kill jobs right? That's funny, but a great premise.
There's more to it than that. It's about using old tech nowadays. It's about art too.
Very cool.
Exactly! I'm already there, LordErb, we just need to get the rest of the people to realize it.
But I think they're starting to come around, slowly. There are signs the masses are getting fed up.
Yep munny, the old forms of protest are not working anymore. They need us, they need our money. When we Occupy a city what happens? We go there pump up the local economy then leave. This way we just stay where we are and stop. But guaranteed this would be a tough one. I think if people bought nothing but food, for a sustained period of time things would change.
I agree completely. If enough people prepped beforehand, and stockpiled enough necessities to last them, say, two weeks minimum, then shut the system down and made demands, something positive could get done.
And I'm starting to entertain the radical idea put forth by Renneye that if enough people stopped paying their debts (credit cards, student loans, etc.), we could bring down the TBTF banks as well. Especially after reading this link from shadz a short time ago, and the YT clip in the comment section. It's enough to infuriate:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35650.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1_uLwHFR2aA
But it would take millions of us, working in conjunction, to pull it off. And therein lies the problem. For now anyway. Times may change.
Exactly, as long as they are getting paid they have no reason to change. Like you said, stockpile, then shut it down.
Yep, as long as they make their billions and keep buying off the government nothing will change. I've been advocating "starve the beast" since day one on here. It's really one of our most powerful weapons.
I have a problem with not paying off debt though. You don't want to look like you are using this as an excuse to be irresponsible. And you cannot completely crush the system because we live in it. But just squeeze it enough to produce the desired effect. Compromise.
I am also of the opinion that revolutions can evolve given the technology we have available to us.
I haven't discounted the need for feet on the ground in protest, entirely...but I don't think it is necessary to have blood in the streets any more. We can organize for a more sophisticated method of revolution.
I like Gandhi's approaches very much...and I feel the methods he used way back then can be incorporated with our modern times. Non-compliance would be the best, in my view.
I like his approach to not paying taxes, the best. If we could organize a mass nonpayment of taxes, the powers that be would sit up and listen. The critical point to noncompliance is that it must be done en masse. No-one should attempt to hold back paying taxes on their own, or even small groups.
We want the oligarchs gone...yet we continue to pay them! Even in the light of extraordinary amounts of evidence that they are using our tax dollars for criminal activity...we STILL pay them! Why are we paying them???????
One would think it impossible to organize such mass non-compliance, but given the internet, it could certainly be done. One just has to look to the recent "Global March Against Monsanto" for proof that a collective effort is very possible. 2,000,000 people protested globally with relatively easy organization. That's extraordinary!
Before anyone says anything...I have no aversion to paying taxes, if they are used for the well-being of society, such as infrastructure, education, social programs, etc., especially when done within a People's Society (shameless plug for my personal vision), but taxes are not being used for their intended purposes.
One of the best benefits to a global non-compliance to paying taxes, is that it can be done from the safety of our homes. NO-ONE need get hurt, if we do this right. What are they going to do? They can't pluck millions of us out of our homes.
When there are people protesting in the streets against governments long enough, invariably violence ensues. People die. It's just not necessary any more.
If we could time your consumer revolt and a non-compliance tax revolt simultaneously, we'd have 'them' by the........!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=EmL8XbC6Zmo
Keep on keepin' on...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~Pearl Jam ~ Indifference
.
I will light the match this mornin'
So I won't be alone
Watch as she lies silent
For soon night will be gone
.
Oh, I will stand arms outstretched
Pretend I'm free to roam
Oh, I will make my way
Through one more day in hell
.
How much difference does it make?
How much difference does it make?
.
I will hold the candle
'Til it burns up my arm
Oh, I'll keep takin' punches
Until their will grows tired
.
Oh, I will stare the sun down
Until my eyes go blind
Hey, I won't change direction
And I won't change my mind
.
How much difference does it make?
Mmm, how much difference does it make?
How much...
.
I'll swallow poison
Until I grow immune
I will scream my lungs out
'Til it fills this room
.
How much difference?
How much difference?
.
How much difference does it make?
How much difference does it make?
.
Oooh, ooh
Oooh, oooh...
Gospell, Renneye. And don't get me started about religion, kept us down for too long! FUCKERS! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nDaGr4y6AMs
"If we could time your consumer revolt and a non-compliance tax revolt simultaneously . . ."
Now THAT would be a successful revolution!
Renneye, WOW, I have heard a lot about you. Your version of dissidence is exactly what we need. I do believe that your not paying taxes is overkill. If we could just get a large percent of WORLD population to only buy EXACTLY what they need (Very Hard For Us Americans) the corporate pigs would feel the crunch. Because they are not use to having to make do at all they would bend. Remember it only takes a match to burn down an entire Forrest. If we could get the sheeple to realize that they hold the power the sky is the limit!
Do you have a link to People's Society stuff, out of curiosity?
Also, what do you think of the Conglomrate's newest creation, the network marketing Subsidiary possibly known as equishift (equashift, equishaft, equishit... still deciding), as a way to push the movement into the minds of the zombies. I think with some dedication, equishift could hit the fan.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-99-conglomerate-subsidiary-network-marketing/
AND a sense of humor, I see, heheheh.
Aquashit? Lol
That's true. The debt option is fraught with problems and would be a very risky move for anyone. Just understand that if it would be used in this way, it's not because people just want to default and get out of their obligations. It would be as a last-resort weapon against the system.
But all that being said, it's pretty much a pipe-dream that would probably never get enough people behind it for it to be effective. It would have to be millions of people all joining together or it would do far more harm than good.
But starving the beast doesn't require mobilizing millions to implement. It can all start with one and hopefully snowball. It's definitely doable and one of our best weapons. I definitely agree with that option.
Why buy food? Get a garden going. Grow veggies, and raise chickens. Go fishing.
All good suggestions, especially if used to remove yourself from the machine a bit and gain some self-sufficiency. Self-sufficiency is the bane of TPTB. And it'd be healthier eating to boot.
Shule, you got it! the fact is that would hurt are farmers and they are not at fault, the wall street commodities brokers (AKA the middle men) are killing them and we dont want them hurt.
gnomunny below got it right.
Even with a garden (I got one) one still needs to buy what one doesn't grow. One needs to be smart as to what one buys and from whom. We are not talking about hurting honest farmers here . Most food in the super market is made by huge agri-businesses (some of it is not.), and then of course is the distribution, and super market itself. Many of these are multi-national corps, e.g.Wal-mart sells food. That is the sort of thing we need to cut our dependance on.
May I extrapolate. Grow veggies, raise chickens, go fishing, find an honest farmer or honest farmer's market, and buy direct.
One last thing, with the way our economy is going the average income family will have no choice, but learn to become more self sufficient; not just with food, but with everything.
It depends on the farmers. Basically there are two kinds, in my book. You have the small independents, which all farms used to be. Then you have the huge industrial monoculture farms. Personally, I have no problem hurting the farmers that have signed a contract with Monsanto.
[Removed]
http://occupywallst.org/forum/problems-ill-explain-how-the-99-conglomerate-can-s/
People's purchasing power is much greater than their voting power in this system.
The problem with this idea is it’s unlikely you will get enough participation to be effective. Boycotts almost never work because not enough people join.
Exactly, so why not use that power?
We can't unify without free speech.
Thats the million dollar question
Right, I have an idea why. We are like addicts and their are dealer. That's where we are at fault. While most of the planet starves, the west lives high on the hog. But what they don't realize is how hard it's getting in the west now too. Hypocritical that now we are feeling the crunch we want to change it, but it's time. The west has been resting on the laurels of freedoms won many years ago. Now we must reassert those freedoms today. And in 50 years those people will have to reassert theirs
[Removed]
That's an easy solution, for a slacker like YOU , who doesn't have any money to spend.
Bottom line...that's the stupidest fucking plan ever discussed on these boards. You people have no fucking clue how economies work. That's why you still live in mommy's basement.
In order to get us to spend, you have to instill fear first. Waddaya got?
Occupy is an anti-consumer movement. It was from the very beginning. Many of us understand the consequences of not spending but we just...don't....care....anymore.
I am not sure what your asking. My point is the reason that the 1% have the power is we are giving it to them. We've have done this by being unwilling to curb our own appetites for excess. If we show them that we will stop buying and stop funding their tyrannical rule, they will bend. Why? because they're greedy people and we would be using that against them. Point: All of 2013, in countries around the world there has been people protesting in the street. In some countries buy the millions, what kind of change has it got them? None. But if those same numbers stopped buying and feeding the monster corporate machines, the machines would give in. Why? Who else is gonna buy their over priced crap? Use their biggest driving need against them, GREED.
[Removed]
Slacker? Try a college student with a 4.O GPA, two fucking jobs and no patients for half measure motherfuckers like you. Fucking puppet, go back to sleep. I have been on my own since you were shitting mustard in your diapers! I know how economies work and so do the 1% that have that leash around your scrawny little neck. I am out to change my fate, not except it. This plan is for the brave, not the coward like you. Economies around the world depend on the U.S. They're bleeding us out as we speak! I know, maybe we can go camp in the park again and nothing changes. How about making them listen? How about having the balls to do something that actually makes change that means real sacrifice? Melsdrivein, YOUR PART OF THE PROBLEM, so step aside and let the grown folks handle shit.