#ows Second General Assembly Of Manhattan Meets At 3PM In Washington Square Park - Anti-Flag To Play Set In Solidarity at Liberty Square
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 1:30 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
#ows is growing. We will be in a thousand cities in this country by the end of the month - hundreds of cities in other countries. We will see General Assemblies on six continents.
Liberty Square has grown exponentially over the last three weeks. It is time to form a second General Assembly in Manhattan. We expect more to follow.
On October eighth at three in the afternoon a General Assembly will convene in Washington Square Park. At the same time Anti-Flag will play an acoustic set in Liberty Square in solidarity with our movement's expansion.
We are growing. Block by block – city by city. We will see change in this country, in this world. It will happen sooner than you can imagine.
Too big to fail - lets turn the argument that was used to justify the wall street bail out around...can this movement become so large and undeniable that citizen action for changes in the democratic process and financial system becomes 'too big to fail'!?! For me the 99% sums it up - that is TOO BIG TO FAIL!
I really admire you guys for starting this movement. The system we have today is not sustainable, it has to be abolished and replaced by direct participatory democracy. This is the beginning of something huge that`s gonna spread all over the US and eventually over the whole world - and you guys started it! Thanks! Yours S. http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/
Yep. Im totally for #ows. I ve been waiting for this...since that stupid 2008 bailout. I use to hate NYC because of the greed spilling from the bankers,but no longer.They got GUTS. These people are in the center of the Wallstreet mess. And you are right...this system can no longer SUSTAIN itself.It is NOT working for the people. Ive been stating this for 3yrs.
I've been waiting for this for three years, also. Can't tell you how many times I clenched my fists in impotent rage and said to myself "when the hell are the people going to take to the streets with pitchforks and torches??"
Weird, everyone I talk to down there says the same thing. We were all isolated and alone, and now we're waking up together.
Exactly! The Gulf Oil Disaster was my final straw, watching BP buy everyone in power was gut wrenching to me. I kept saying "where is everyone?". Yes, small movements popped up here and there, but so many were still asleep. And I've been saying that they've GOT to be there, others like me, but maybe even more passionate and more informed & articulate. I knew they were out there, I was waiting for this. 2012 isn't about the world coming to an end - 2012 is about "life as we know it" coming to an end - that doesn't mean an END - it means a NEW BEGINNING! A REVOLUTION! THIS REVOLUTION!!!!!!!
I'm excited to the point of TEARS every single day - I've never felt so hopeful for the future & so hopeful for my children's futures! My 1st child was born 7 weeks before 9/11. I remember thinking "omg, what type of a world have I brought this child into?". Now, finally, 10 years later I feel hope for them...
Exactly, for years I've been asking, where is the dissent? It is so great to know that it has been there, percolating, acros all of the 99%ers. It just took a tiny spark from our brothers and sisters in NYC, and now the people are coming out to let their voice be heard! Because it is disgusting that they tell us that the ballot box is where to make a statement. It gives the illusion we have a voice. Ask yourself? After how many general elections this country has had and they still don't have a bullet-proof method in place??? A gifted high school kid could devise a system / machine that would be more reliable and trustworthy!! The way this country is governed, we'd call bribery and corruption were it another country. STAND UP BROTHERS AND SISTERS. NOW IS THE HOUR!
Thank you for the link! I really appreciated the collection of videos relating to Occupy Wall Street as they really help to give a broad view. I also have written a little something at http://ko0lkyle.hubpages.com/hub/Support-Occupy-Wall-Street to show my support for all our Supporters. It is really important to spread the word and I will do everything I can do to assist and be involved.
My pleasure. Promise me you`ll keep on fighting for justice and democracy in the US. We need to replace this unsustaniable system we have today as soon as possible.
Solidarity from Norway Yours S. http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/
Direct participatory democracy is usually a mistake on a broad scale because it requires the whole of the population to be highly informed on countless issues that they simply don't have time to juggle with their ordinary lives.
The current representational system is fine -- you have to balance what represents the most people with what's most practical. What we need to do, however, is find ways to ensure that the majority of people are actually being served rather than a wealthy minority, as is the case with our current system.
that was before - now the internet and free time allows anyone to follow politics in real time. the trouble is that u can follow but cannot influence - your voice is not counted since old lobbies are in power. put down the lobbies and the system that put them in power.
Trust me, you don't have enough time in the day to follow ALL of the issues you'd on which you'd have to give a vote. Remember, if you want direct democracy you're going to have to vote on decisions at multiple levels -- city, county, state/provincial, and national. If sound decisions are to be made, you're going to have to learn all the particulars relating to every issue. Guess what? Laws have to be written in language that expresses exact intent while excluding unintentional meanings -- you're going to have to study law and learn your fair share of legalese. Voting on laws isn't like voting for your favorite person on American Idol. The decisions that are made and the laws that are passed can make or break society as we know it.
And the issues aren't just big ones like abortion or worker's rights. You have to deal with a bunch of little ones too, like what to name the new street on the edge of town and how much money to appropriate to the city landscaping fund while keeping in mind that you have a budget. You can't demand direct democracy and then only focus on the issues you care about once you get it -- you have to focus on EVERYTHING.
While I'm sure you're capable of juggling these many great feats along with a full-time paying job and family, most of us aren't. It's not just a matter of having access to all the information. There simply isn't enough time in the day to stay on top of everything that would be necessary to maintain direct democracy on a national level.
I'd like to give you a little experiment. Think of it as a homework assignment. Find out what decisions are under consideration by your city, your state legislature, and by Congress at this current moment. Now, I want you to study each of those issues intently, learning all the particulars of every ones. Don't ignore any side to a particular issue, as strong as your initial opinion might be. Make sure to learn the particular shades of meaning in each word that is used, as legal language needs to be precise if society is going to be bound by it. Imprecise language leads to loopholes, the sorts that are exploited by individuals and organizations to practically get away with murder.
This is the obligation for which you are asking on top of your job and daily responsibilities. It is a heavier burden than most people realize.
so - I cannot vote even if i want to? Oh only if i have money to buy politician I can really influence - right? that's why we've got in that shit - if you start thinking that you are not educated enough - you start delegate too much - you lose.
I understand where you are coming from, and I do agree to some extent. But I don't think that the answer is direct democracy.
Instead, I think a better solution would be to find ways to reform the existing system in such a way where it will allow for more representation. Eliminate winner-takes-all elections, reform campaign finance, and implement policies that encourage power sharing between a multitude of political parties rather than allowing all the power to be consolidated into two that respectively have monopolies over the right and the left.
Don't take democracy for granted. Democratic processes can be fragile. The greatest direct democracy in history was the Athenian state, which possessed some of the greatest minds to have ever graced this Earth. They built an empire, managed to devolve into tyranny on several occasions, and put to death perhaps the greatest individual to be found in Western history -- Socrates.
I readily take issue with those who complain whenever someone says we have a "Democracy"... the fact is, in the modern sense, "Democracy" means "Constitutional Republic governed by Democratic Processes." But the Republic part is important too. Society should be governed by the highest law of the land, not by the will of the people at a given moment. As Shakespeare pointed out in Julius Caesar, human beings are fickle and are given to act on emotion rather than principles or facts. Our nation safeguards against that by the fact that the Constitution and established Common Law hold precedence over any law that Congress can establish, and the laws that Congress establishes must pass through a series of procedures before they can enter the books. You do away with that when you decide to throw out the system and put direct democracy in its stead.
So no, I don't think you should be able to vote even if you want to. Society isn't built on the majority of people doing what they want when they want to do it. What you should be able to do is voice your opinion in an open forum and, if what you have to say is good, have it open to consideration, which is a very different thing.
We live in a society shaped by nature and in nature nothing can be perfect. All systems, political and economic, have inherent flaws to greater and lesser extents. History has taught us that the flaws found in direct democracy far outweigh the benefits so, as a society, we learn from history lest history repeat itself. Direct democracy is a utopian ideal.
What I do think we need is democratization of the economy. Those who control the economy by extension control the political discourse. That is where I see socialism coming into play. It's been said, however, that politics is the art of the possible... and direct democracy, however nice in theory, has been shown to be impossible every time it's been tried.
Aha, suddenly you start talking reform - that's exactly what is NOT happening because the system is self-sustained. And I'm not talking about governing - you changed the topic. I talk about LAWS. Of course I should delegate to eg president/ governor /sheriff etc. my rights. But why in the hell i should have representatives who do not consult with me? I can understand their opinion but why they are any better than mine - because behind curtains he made treaty with some lobbies? No way there is any reason why people cannot express their opinion. Of course there should be stoppers (brunches etc) but having referendum before was so difficult and impractical and now you really can do that very fast. So now when this elected corrupted politician says that he represents us we can easily check if that is true. It is no wonder that representatives (congress) has so low rating.
BTW, in all democratic countries an election day is a holiday - so any person can vote - and only presumably democratic america people just have a right to vote (not time). Or now you say that only "intellectual" workers should represent me at voting?
Our forefathers Intended for this land to be a republic. Just a reminder . Our constitution is fine we need to enforce it as it was written. By the people for the people. American citizens not outside countries or 35 million illegal aliens. I am for legal immigration to this nation. Both sway US policies. We need to throw all of congress out and start new. Put term limits in for congressman and representatives and get all money out out politics. Only then will we have a voice !
I agree. People don't have enough time each day to stay informed about everything. I don't like watching the news, because the stories are negative and usually are about crimes. But, I try to stay informed about some things, but it's impossible to stay informed about everything.
I agree totally that fixing the system so that it works for EVERYONE is the answer.
And if EVERYONE had equal access to sound education, then the crime rate would go down.
Personally, I think everyone should have access to food, water, shelter, clothing, sound education, health care, and all other basic needs. When you are dependent upon private individuals for your fundamental needs, you are beholden to those individuals and can in no sense call yourself "free", not even in a political sense.
but current system is corrupt - it should be changed. otherwise bankers who are supposed to be stripped of their power will stay there. I'm not saying about routine decisions - but about laws. You do not want to participate - thats your right. But I, say, really want taxes to be increased - I want internet vote - it would be fine with me if I'm in minority - but at least my voice is heard. Now only lobbies' voice is heard. And this is exactly what people do not like - it is corruption. OK not directly money exchange - but at the end it is the same thing.
I hope you don't misunderstand me. I don't take any issue whatsoever with your grievances -- to the contrary, I quite agree. But there are other, more efficient ways for our voices to be heard besides direct vote. The system is corrupt, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water, so to speak.
Of course I fully understand that you are my ally :-) Just for the sake of argument. I'm not sure how but using internet we need to officially simplify access to people's opinion. Then at least that garbage "I'm speaking on behalf of ALL people" will be openly verifiable. The problem with barriers between corporations and executive branch is not easily resolved - but at least making all representatives of themesleves will make corruption very difficult - you need to bribe many. Still possible but at least people should blame themselves.
I agree.
Well said.
direct participatory democracy is nothing but mob rule. So if a majority says we need to pimp out or children at 10, we would have to? Or how about evertone gets $100 pre hour, that would work, right?
republic
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Unfortunately if you have studied history you will remember that direct democracy leads to mob rule or at least rule of the majority. That then creates the ability to "vote in" an oligarchy and or monarchy (Roman Empire), as well as later forms of gov't such as fascism, nazism, socialism and communism, and eventually they all lead to tyranny. Our founders knew from history what lead to oligarchy and monarchy (you've not learned it yet I guess) and so they chose a republic.
Chuck, we do not have a republic, nor a democracy. We have a monarchy of sorts with the Kings and Queens being the Corporations and the Dukes and Lords (President, congress, senate) are the pawns....to do their will. This must end! We need our Democracy back! And I believe our forefathers would be right there with the protesters!
Just Like Ron Paul has been saying over and over again
There are other political parties, the problem is there are too many others, there are the Libertarians, The Conservatives, The Green Party, The Working Families Party, all have good things to offer, we need the Consitution Party which will solve our problems because it limits what the govt. can do, it preserves the rights our founding fathers carefully made sure we had. We went to war in Iraq, nobody voted for it, even in the UN they did not take the vote, and just sent troops anyway. Sent Nato to Libya and said, well we didn't send troops, just planes so it is okay. There are drones here flying over US soil on the Texas and Mexico border. People think we still have rights, but they were legislated away during Bush's time in office. He signed a whole bunch of executive orders taking away what was left of our rights after the Patriot Act was enacted. If we don't get these other parties to tell their members to join the Constitution Party and elect the next President who will honor what is in our Consitution, we will either a) need a revolution or b) accept the enslavement that the New World Order has planned for us. Now what do you want to do?
The "representative system" is a joke, and people need to read history. This country started as a poloarchy, rule by the "responsible men"and THAT always leads to oligarchy. The representative form was a ruse to get constitutional power for the few, they have been served since the beginning, the form of government is a dog and pony show, always has been and always will be.
Yes a representational rather than direct system may be necessary due to large populations, BUT, therein lies the rub and the POINT of the movement - frustration with "representatives" that no longer represent their constituencies, but rather lobby special interests and their own political self preservation! This movement, a healthy demonstration of civic and democratic values in action, is just what we need to reinvigorate our anemic democracy and offer the possibility of hopefulness in positive change and counter the cynicism and apathy that have allowed the status quo to continue like a runaway train. I find it ironic that this most basic of democratic values, civic action, is engendering such bitter, mean spirited and dismissive reactions...and yet we all intuitively know that those power elites that feel threatened are only expressing fear that any change in the status quo will challenge their position on top.
Our system is designed to provide influence through voting - the Tea Party has this figured out - they have elected officials that follow their policies - no reason that can't happen here too.
and you are right but you dont need plastic men because they are bought out by special interest groups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlYG6vh2T-M&feature=relmfu
Personally, my family thinks along the lines of the Tea Party. They are doing just what we wanted them to do. Go to DC and stop all of the wasteful spending this administration is doing. No, we are not rich. In fact, my wife has been a teacher for over 20 years.
I believe you when you say you're not rich. I imagine that both your wife and yourself are hardworking individuals who have earned what you have and then some. Unlike many on the left, I actually think that the majority of people in the TEA Party movement are honest, decent Americans who are advocating for the ideas that we've been told all our lives will make us prosperous and free.
I'm not a liberal. I'm an outright socialist. What's the difference, you might ask? At the end of the day, liberals are content to see that the wealthy elites remain firmly in control of society while, as a socialist, I think that our representatives in government ought to represent the interests of those of us who have to work to survive. I don't want a welfare state -- I want a country where people can find work to support themselves, receive what they earned, and, should they find themselves in a slump, not be left out to die in the streets. I most certainly DON'T want to take your family's hard earned money and give it to the poor -- to the contrary, I believe that the system is cheating you and that you should be receiving a lot more from the work that you do. I believe your taxes could be a lot lower if we could find ways to raise the lower classes out of poverty so that they could afford to pay a greater share. I'm not anti-capitalist. I just see that the majority of people get the short end of the stick in a pure capitalist system and believe that economic solutions are far more complicated than the simplistic formulas offered by ideological approaches.
Obama is not a socialist -- you can't be a socialist and support the interests of the wealthy elite over the common man. Obama doesn't advocate for your interests, Obama's Administration doesn't advocate for your interests, and the Democrats don't advocate for your interests. Do you know who else certainly doesn't advocate for your interests? The Tea Party and the Republicans. Without going into details here, there are very simple economic reasons why what the Tea Party and the Republicans are advocate are going to do more harm to you than anything Obama has done up to this point. Keynesianism may be flawed, but it was not wrong about everything.
At the end of the day, the American people are getting played. Fortunately, people both on the right and left are starting to wake up to this fact. Rather than form an adversarial relationship, I personally think it would be in this country's best interest for populist movements such as the Tea Party and OWS to find ways to work together.
You're completely wrong about liberals. I'm a liberal (and a socialist), and I certainly don't want the elite in control.
Sometimes it's a little tricky to be entirely clear when speaking to two very different audiences. I think the disagreement is probably in our definition of terms -- I am speaking of liberalism in terms of its economic expression here in the US, entirely divorced from issues of civil rights (admittedly, I don't think American liberals go far enough in terms of civil rights either... Americans debate things that should just be a given when it comes to civil rights, like gay marriage).
All I meant was that, at the end of the day, your average liberal (by my definition) is pro-capitalism and does not particularly looking to upset the status quo. I didn't mean to sound as though I was attacking liberals... it's just that, traditionally in this country, liberals tend to use socialist-style policies to prop up the capitalist system. This is the very essence of what the Democratic Party does. The ONLY reason they should be supported is so that Republicans can't put whack-job judges on the bench.
If you oppose the wealthiest of society having total control over our economy, you are more of a socialist than a liberal.
" I think the disagreement is probably in our definition of terms -- I am speaking of liberalism in terms of its economic expression here in the US, entirely divorced from issues of civil rights (admittedly, I don't think American liberals go far enough in terms of civil rights either... Americans debate things that should just be a given when it comes to civil rights, like gay marriage)."
Got it, and I agree. I'm a social liberal but not a spending liberal. Perhaps we should define it more clearly when speaking of the two as not to get confused.
I'm not in favor of capitalism. I'm in favor of a mix of socialism, like the socialism of Norway and other countries where it's successful and sustainable, and of regulated capitalism.
I'm a socialist in terms of economies and a social liberal then. I will be more precise from now on when describing myself.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I see things too. I had a feeling we were more or less in agreement.
And I wasn't taking issue with your precision in terms... It's just that I was trying to frame the issue for a conservative in my original comment. I used to be a conservative myself -- terms mean very different things on that side of the issues. Your average conservative tends to mean very well but they've had reality framed for them in such a way that they advocate contrary to their own interests... The best thing to do is to try to reach them on their own terminology and try to get them to see things in a slightly different way.
"And I wasn't taking issue with your precision in terms... It's just that I was trying to frame the issue for a conservative in my original comment." — No problem. I want to be more precise, so that others don't misunderstand what I'm saying.
I have many relatives who are conservatives. I know that most are not bad people and don't want to harm anyone. None are rich, but they have a lot of fear that drives their beliefs and motives.... so they are against national healthcare and a lot of other things that make sense to help a society flourish.
I agree about trying to get them to see things in a different way.
Most conservatives I've known aren't rich. Looking back, it was quite frankly tough being conservative. Your moral beliefs tell you one thing and then people lie to you telling you that you need to choose between your morals and your personal interests. Things are framed in such a way so as to provoke the greatest amount of divisive fear on these issues while telling you it's the "evil" liberals and socialists that want to divide. The reactionary think tanks and propaganda machine are together a multi-billion dollar industry -- nothing remotely similar exists on the left.
The best we can do is re-frame things on a personal level. It's an uphill battle... Just keep fighting the good fight. :)
I agree. It's mind boggling how so many people can follow and listen to those who are stealing from them.
It is a matter of I think the government waste money. We are highly educated. Infact, my wife has a masters in education. We are still conservative and still disagree with the whole movement. For one, a large portion of people's retirements and penstions are tied to the stock market. As well as my kids college funds. We take care of our own. I have been unemployed several times, had no insurance and bad insurance. Yet, I have never been on a government program. This administration is stiffling the economy with all of its regulations. I have heard it said we are becoming a "regulation nation". Notice how most of this movement in the liberal bastions of the North and West. We in the South have pretty much ignored it.
So, why are conservatives for the elimination of regulation in the financial/business sector, but they are all for it in the social sector? Why do they want to tell people how they can or cannot live.... like denying gay people the right to marry, denying women reproductive rights, wanting religion to dictate politics, etc., etc., etc.? There's a lot of hypocrisy going within the right wing with regard to those and other things.
I, too, have been unemployed, and I've never been on welfare or any other kind of government assistance. The lack of regulations is what caused the financial meltdown.... on purpose. The repeal of Glass-Steagall (the regulations that did not allow what happened to cause the financial meltdown for 40 years after the depression) is what allowed the crooks on Wall Street to do what they did and cause the meltdown. I don't get why people can't see that. It didn't happen by accident.
We need regulations in certain places but not in all places, otherwise, companies and people like the Koch brothers would do even more harm than they already are doing. People are not evolved enough to handle life without regulations.
Sorry, socialism is not the answer. If people did remembered history, a bunch of social programs are part of what bankrupted and helped bring down the collapse of the Roman Empire. Even now, European countries are in crisis over their "social programs". They haven't had the huge military spending we have had, yet they are still going bankrupt. Socialism has always failed throughout history, yet people keep trying it, saying they can make it work, they will do it different, etc. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/world/europe/23europe.html
Social programs ARE NOT what's causing the crisis in some European countries. There are several countries that are flourishing with socialism. All you conservatives love to blame socialism.
And you didn't answer my question about why conservatives hate regulations in business and the financial sector, but you love to tell others how to live and what rights they do or don't have.
One, I am not advocating no regulations. There are just too many. Things like not allowing drilling in off shore in Alaska because the emissions of ONE, ship was improperly calculated. Or, putting a moratorium on drilling in the Gulf because of one oil well. All things like this do is put us more dependent on foreign oil. These are the same regulators\activist who now talk about taking down wind farms because the blade may hamper bird migration. No, we shouldn't allow companies to do things like dump toxins into our water, but we should not mandate the profit they can make (part of what this administration is trying to do), or mandate things like requiring them to provide healthcare. No where in the Constitution do I see anything about a "right to health insurance". If these socialist countries are doing so well with there programs, then why is there starting to be talk of starting private healthcare and insurance programs in places like Canada and the UK. You comment how people talk about other countries, but haven't been there. I have traveled. China is the worst place I have been, so I am traveled. I have friends in Canada, if one of their children are sick, there is no calling the doctor and being seen the same day. They have to go to the ER, and have said they easily have waited, IN THE ER, for over 24 hours before being seen. Not what I call great healthcare.
As far as telling people how to live there lives. I think people should be free, for the most part, to live their lives as they want. However, I do think marriage is only between a man and a woman, nor do I wanted a homosexual being a leader in my son's Scout troop (neither do any other parents I know). Things like that. While most people disagree, this nation was founded on Christian principles. For decades after the US was formed, states had many more rights. They had their own education systems, and many had "state religions". It wasn't until after the Civil War, that the Federal government began to gain so much power under reconstruction and with things like the 16th and 17th amendments. In my opinion, we should go back to more "states rights". Then, you liberal Northern "progressives" could have all the social programs you want, and we could run things the way we feel they should be run. You mention conservative wanting to tell people how to live, what do you call forcing a healthcare program I don't want on me, making me pay taxes for social programs I don't believe in like welfare. My mother worked as a pediatric nurse her entire life. I remember her talking about these single, unwed mothers coming in. She would hear the talking about how they had to have more kids so they could get more money from the government. Personally, one mistake OK. If you have more than one, then NO additional government hand outs. It make me sick seeing these women with 3,4,5,+ kids and few if any have the same daddy. This has all come about since the 1960's with those social programs. BTW, many of the things you liberals want is forcing a life style or things on me I don't believe in. Same deal.
I don't give a shit what you or any other conservative thinks about marriage. It is NONE OF YOURS OR ANYONE ELSE'S BUSINESS, and PLEASE KEEP YOUR RELIGIOUS VIEWS OUT OF OUR FACES. RELIGION HAS NO PLACE IN POLITICS OR IN GOVERNING PEOPLE'S RIGHTS.
The nation WAS NOT founded on Christian principles. There is CLEAR separation of church and state in our Constitution.
I can see your points on the other things you mentioned, but you really hit a nerve with me about the gay rights stuff and religion. I'll have to calm down before I can answer the other stuff you wrote.
People so endowed into their religion are such hypocrites. They advocate for treating everyone fairly, yet THEY DON'T WANT TO. You don't get to judge who gets rights and who doesn't. Equal rights ARE NOT debatable.
It's not too hard to believe. Our paradigms tend to be shaped by the contexts in which we live, for better or for worse. This is true for all of us to greater and lesser extents. We all succumb to appeals to that which we "know" is true... even when that knowledge is really just an assumption.
The role of the left is deconstruction of the principles and structures that govern society. The role of the right is to react. The best solutions occur in the dialectic which results from these two forces meeting. The best society is that which allows for the most dialectic possible when it comes to its policies.
As soon as we have "representatives" it becomes easy to sway government policies by bribing those "representatives". In the past a direct system of voting was difficult with a large population. Today, we could try direct voting over the internet. Sometimes the problem is people voting based on "is it good for me?" rather that "is it the right thing?"
I find these truths to be self evident and agree with your main premise that Corporation have to much control of our government and create a conflict of interest. I suggest that the reverse is also possibly true. The award winning documentary film " Inside Job" sheds light on the financial meltdown and why it happened (Greed). The main point is that Government has no business being involved in Corporations and Corporations have no business being involved in Government. Our government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth (Not a government of corporations, by corporation, for corporations). Just as we found there was no place for Government involvement with Religion and visa versa, we have the 1st Amendment "Separation of Church and State". Therefore we should move for another Amendment of "SEPARATION OF CORPORATIONS AND STATE"! There is no room for one meddling in the other. The governments role is to create laws to protect the people from Greedy Corporations that steal our money and livelihood.
I saw "Inside Job". It really helps to explain what really happened and that it wasn't an accident. "Waiting for Superman" is another really good one to watch to get a little insight into why American education has been going downhill at a high speed since the 70s.
Thanks I will check out "Waiting for Superman". I have some knowledge about the education system of the US of A. It sucks. Most of my family is in education. A very close friend of mine has received some of the highest levels of awards for his programs in Learning from all over the world. He could not however get the federal government to initiate his program to catch children early to help them understand how to learn. He was a pioneer in a remediation program to identify all children in our schools for any LD and correct them in the school systems and at home. He was very much against labeling a child though, and has seen the school systems fail at what he could achieve through his programs. I have seen so many teachers frustrated with our school system and the Bureaucracy that has taken over.
"Waiting for Superman" talks about those things. It uses the D.C. public school system as one example. It's so ironic to me that the worst public school system in the USA in terms of test scores is the D.C. school system. The current chancellor (superintendent) is trying to make big changes (she has been able to make some), but she is meeting a LOT of roadblocks and resistance in being able to implement them.
As she states, public education in America is NOT about the children. Rather, it's about the adults and what they can get from it without really caring about the children (not saying that all teachers and administrators are guilty of this).
I think that your comment about adults and parents not realy caring obout the children.........Hits the nail on the head. They want schools to be a glorified babysitter. At one point teachers were the main caregivers to children.......now there are nothing more than a pawn. Damned if they care an damned if they don't.
I wasn't speaking of the parents. I know a lot of parents are guilty of what you mentioned, but the doc focuses on the failure of the education system. It focuses on 5 or 6 children (don't remember the exact number) and the D.C. school system. The parents of those children are very much supporting their kids and education and want better education alternatives for them, but many are poor and have no choice but to send them to the miserably failing inner city public schools (and suburban schools that aren't that good). They are trying to get their kids into charter schools but have to be placed into the lotteries, because so many kids are trying to get into charter schools. That says a lot about the public school system.
I'm not saying charter schools are better, because the doc says that most of them also are failing in terms of successfully educating kids, but a a few (the Kipp schools) have a very successful formula for getting their students educated, so that they can go to college and have careers, rather than becoming criminals, getting killed at a young age, being on welfare, etc.
I'm not for corporations owning schools, but if the teaching mechanisms that some are using work, then perhaps the public school systems can adopt them.
Right on, SeparationOfCorpandState. We’re with you.
CORPORATE MONEY will forever keep our government officials "stuck on stupid." If we want to comprehensively address the all main issues at the root of our protest, we MUST demand that corporations may not use dollars to influence politicians.
Right now, not much difference between a D or an R. They create spectacle, make promises, and distract us during a campaign. We’re “allowed” to cast a vote, but once they get in office, they are absolutely beholden to serve the interests of corporations. Politicians will never act on their own, so we as citizens must step in to fix the problem.
It's said this is an impossible goal. We must DISAGREE and INSIST on making it happen. The only way our government can start making sober decisions that put people first is to take away the one thing that will always cloud their judgment, preventing them from making any good decisions.
CITIZENS STANDING UP TO DEMAND REMOVAL OF CORPORATE MONEY IN POLITICS IS WHERE TO START.
But people are greedy and your representative are no better than you. We need direct checking of our representatives. Every vote of my representative should be AT LEAST compared with the vote of his/her constituency. Obviously, writing a law is not an amateurish process but voting for it should be done by people - with internet it is a cheap process. I wonder how many real people (not congressmen) will vote to tax decrease and allowing corporations to bribe their representatives.
Your Right.......There is not much difference between any Political party when corporate money is the controling factor.
oh please! Don't even think about a cooperation with D or R. You must understand your movement as the foundation process of a new political party and way of life! D+R are completely undermined organisations and people! Obama is jut a front man of a money driven show controlled by the big wallstreet banks. If these guys are telling you to fight for your rights and democracy, you can sure start fucking for virginity !! But your movement must be aware that you need to fight at the end to remove the cancer of US-economy and replace the puppet players.
I believe you misunderstood. JimiJamz said nothing about cooperation with D or R. His word was CORPORATION and they must stay out of Politics!
People should gain real time control over gov't decisions, people should gain the power to veto large financial transactions, microsoft should publish its interface standards. -------------> Alvin Toffler was right.
There is a way to achieve what you both want. CUT OFF THE MONEY! WHY? Because .....Money is the Root of al Evil! Now wait,,,WAIT......I'm sure you have all heard this phrase. So if it is true....then to accomplish your goal of stopping Greed and the Evil that invades Wall Street and our Government.......CUT OFF THE MONEY! Stop the relationships between Corporate American and our Government. Amend the Constitution to have, "Separation of Corporation and State" Corporations are not People. They can not vote in an election and should not have a financial influence on our Government. Cut off the link between the two, namely Taxes and Lobbyist. Corporations should not pay taxes. People pay taxes. Corporation now just pass the cost of taxation on to the consumer in the price of their goods and services. No Taxes on Corporation is better business and then they have no say in Government. Tax all people Fairly. More on how to achieve this later.
Here Here! This is where change starts! I think the objectives of OWS are this 1 - Cut off the money to politicians from corporations and special interests. This should be voted into law! 2- Reform the Tax Code 3- Hold Corporations to the same standard of law as individuals if they steal, price fix, commit treason and harm others physically and financial 4- Congress should be public servants in the truest sense - all get same salary or work for minimum wage and they should pay for their own medical benefits
I very much agree!! If our representation in Congress was set to these standards I think you will find more representation from people who want to do whats right instead of for what they can get by getting into office. We know then they aren't going along with things that hurt our country for the money or benefits.
I find these truths to be self evident and agree with your main premise that Corporation have to much control of our government and create a conflict of interest. I suggest that the reverse is also possibly true. The award winning documentary film " Inside Job" sheds light on the financial meltdown and why it happened (Greed). The main point is that Government has no business being involved in Corporations and Corporations have no business being involved in Government. Our government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth (Not a government of corporations, by corporation, for corporations). Just as we found there was no place for Government involvement with Religion and visa versa, we have the 1st Amendment "Separation of Church and State". Therefore we should move for another Amendment of "SEPARATION OF CORPORATIONS AND STATE"! There is no room for one meddling in the other. The governments role is to create laws to protect the people from Greedy Corporations that steal our money and livelihood.
Government through its lack of oversight or the influence of corporate monies on politicians has allowed the excesses of Wall Street. Because of the Supreme Courts recent ruling allowing corporations unfettered access to our election process it will be necessary to ammend the Constitution in order to overturn the ruling. The ammendment should be to reform the electoral process eliminating all outside contributions and the use of personal fortunes. All House, Senate and Presidential elections should be funded with taxpayer dollars. A petitioning process with all volunteer staffing would gain access for a candidate to the Federally funded campaign. Even politicians should like it because they will no longer have to pander for campaign contributions. Lobbiests would lose their influence because they would no longer have the ability to coerce politicians with promises of campaign contributions. Politicians would no longer be in perpetual campaign mode and could focus their time on the people's business.
James Mason - "A pure democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will be felt by a majority, and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party. Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."
James Madison. James Mason was an English actor
Sorry. James Madison. I wonder why I wrote James Mason. I didn't even know he existed until you pointed it out!
exactly
Exactly, just as this morning on State of Union, Candy asked Cain if he wasn't out of step with the American people, when 75% want taxes raised on the wealthy. He said he wasn't out of step, we were being deceived. Angry, or laughable, either we don't agree with conservatives or we are brainless idiots. That is the kind of rhetoric we are sick of, being called idiots, or stupid. He sounded pretty stupid himself, but I shouldn't say that, then I could be considered stupid also.
There is a way to achieve what you both want. CUT OFF THE MONEY! WHY? Because .....Money is the Root of al Evil! Now wait,,,WAIT......I'm sure you have all heard this phrase. So if it is true....then to accomplish your goal of stopping Greed and the Evil that invades Wall Street and our Government.......CUT OFF THE MONEY! Stop the relationships between Corporate American and our Government. Amend the Constitution to have, "Separation of Corporation and State" Corporations are not People. They can not vote in an election and should not have a financial influence on our Government. Cut off the link between the two, namely Taxes and Lobbyist. Corporations should not pay taxes. People pay taxes. Corporation now just pass the cost of taxation on to the consumer in the price of their goods and services. No Taxes on Corporation is better business and then they have no say in Government. Tax all people Fairly. More on how to achieve this later.
I have two words for what is happening in America especially since 2000, the stolen election. "Corporate Fascism". That is why we are being told that corporations (Oh, sorry a capital C, Corporations) can do a better job than our government because leading Republicans are orchestrating it not to work and a lot of Democrat politicians like/need the corporate donations that the Supreme Court allowed but "You can fool some of the people most of the time but not all the people all of the time" thank goodness!
I find these truths to be self evident and agree with your main premise that Corporation have to much control of our government and create a conflict of interest. I suggest that the reverse is also possibly true. The award winning documentary film " Inside Job" sheds light on the financial meltdown and why it happened (Greed). The main point is that Government has no business being involved in Corporations and Corporations have no business being involved in Government. Our government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth (Not a government of corporations, by corporation, for corporations). Just as we found there was no place for Government involvement with Religion and visa versa, we have the 1st Amendment "Separation of Church and State". Therefore we should move for another Amendment of "SEPARATION OF CORPORATIONS AND STATE"! There is no room for one meddling in the other. The governments role is to create laws to protect the people from Greedy Corporations that steal our money and livelihood.
thats why Ron Paul doesnt get this campaign money from special interest groups but people ..
How True! Something has to change, and that would be the law that gave corporation the freedom to contribute to campaigns.
It is good to see so many with the same feeling and ideas.
Go OWS Assembly!
Well put planetlove.At this moment many lawmakers in Pa and Fla are attempting to pass laws to redistrict the populations in order to sway the elections next year. We need to do away with the 2 party system because it no longer represents the people.
ows came along just in time. Make no demands.Declarations are needed because...
The economic and political system NO LONGER SUSTAINS We The People!
People should gain real time control over gov't decisions, people should gain the power to veto large financial transactions, microsoft should publish its interface standards. -------------> Alvin Toffler was right.
I'd say we pretty much already have an oligarchy, wouldn't you? Don't the 200 richest families in America, pretty much control everything? Aren't they the effective oligarchs? They own so much stock they control the Corporate boards, the banks, etc? They essentially control sufficient politicians to get whatever they want? I have no problem with the concept of representative democracy... so long as they represent the people. Currently, they are not... they representing the wealthy who are making them wealthy. Ever why almost all our representatives are millionaires? That in and by itself shows they don't represent us, the 99%.
There is a way to achieve what you both want. CUT OFF THE MONEY! WHY? Because .....Money is the Root of al Evil! Now wait,,,WAIT......I'm sure you have all heard this phrase. So if it is true....then to accomplish your goal of stopping Greed and the Evil that invades Wall Street and our Government.......CUT OFF THE MONEY! Stop the relationships between Corporate American and our Government. Amend the Constitution to have, "Separation of Corporation and State" Corporations are not People. They can not vote in an election and should not have a financial influence on our Government. Cut off the link between the two, namely Taxes and Lobbyist. Corporations should not pay taxes. People pay taxes. Corporation now just pass the cost of taxation on to the consumer in the price of their goods and services. No Taxes on Corporation is better business and then they have no say in Government. Tax all people Fairly. More on how to achieve this later.
Rhetoric fail. -1.
Red Valkyrie Needs Coffee Badly.
Like the Bike and color......Hope you get your Fix!
I find these truths to be self evident and agree with your main premise that Corporation have to much control of our government and create a conflict of interest. I suggest that the reverse is also true. The award winning documentary film " Inside Job" sheds light on the financial meltdown and why it happened (Greed). The main point is that Government has no business being involved in Corporations and Corporations have no business being involved in Government. Our government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth (Not a government of corporations, by corporation, for corporations). Just as we found there was no place for Government involvement with Religion and visa versa, we have the 1st Amendment "Separation of Church and State". Therefore we should move for another Amendment of "SEPARATION OF CORPORATIONS AND STATE"! There is no room for one meddling in the other. The governments role is to create laws to protect the people from Greedy Corporations that steal our money and livelihood.
My friend watching a John Birch video isn't the place to get an education. it is obvious you don't understand the terms you use. Not to mention if you live in the USA you are living in an oligarchy now. That is exactly why these people are in the streets. They want the Oligarchs OUT!!!
The problem is that we no longer teach history. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to fulfill it", George Santayana
Our founding fathers knew this. That is why they created a representative republic, not elections by population!
Look, when most people talk about "Democracy" they aren't advocating direct democracy. It's a shorthand way of stating "Constitutional Republic with Democratic Processes." The Founding Fathers didn't hate Democracy -- Thomas Jefferson's political party was called the "Democratic-Republican Party", for heaven's sake.
History does not consider the internet. What do you think of http://www.americanselect.org Is it legit?
legit or not, the candidates are still going to be from one of the two main parties.
And the 99% should start fighting back. The bailout money was MORE than the whole US Credit Card debt! WE CAN DO SOMETHING! http://99vs1.wordpress.com
Guys, as much as I support you, don't think that you are leading a movement that will change the world. Much of your problems, for example huge student loans, health care not available for everyone, do not exist abroad. Fact is that the USA is set up around a different philosophy than countries in Europe and is lagging in many areas. Focus on your own problems first and don't make claims that are not true as your opponents will focus on that to ridiculize you. What you want is real: access to education, health and a reasonable paying job for everyone
Untrue. This is a world movement facing very similar problems everywhere - predation by the 1% and the use of neo-liberal economic policy to disrupt public services so private interests can take their place.
Both North America and Europe are being forced into austerity and economic restructuring for the same reason. Its no mystery that calls for austerity in the "first world" followed success in much of Latin America at removing the same pattern of austerity and economic restructuring forced upon them by financial institutions. The wealthy can only maintain their position through exploitation. If Europe and America refuse to play along we could all be doing quite well and have more say in our own societies about our future.
The revolution in Egypt could be seen in the same light. As Mubarak was allied with these same global economic interests whereas Egypt's military has domestically focused economic interests which were historically unallied with say Goldman Sachs or UBS. Here's to hoping that their worker's movement continues to force the Egyptian military to share power as well. Otherwise I suspect that revolution will be short lived.
In our case we first need to threaten the status quo. It hasn't been done yet. But as we resist the resent crisis of police brutality and through that open up more of a dialog with local governments to work with us... the threat will be well underway. The 99% after all are an overwhelming majority. Get your local governments and businesses on your side (most of whom are the 99%), and we will begin to control resources and decision making over what is done with those resources. Eventually Washington will have to start listenting to the public as well.
Thats the point that y ou can start worrying about organizing demands etc... ITs a long way off at this point.
Good evening.
It is very interesting, that you compare United States with Europe, with out respecting big differences. Cultural, political, ideological and ethical. Greece, Italy and Spain not only have incurred in high debts, but have sustained corrupted political and burocratic societies and social stratas. The people from Greece and Italy, are much more irresponsable, socially and politically than much of the population of Germany, Austria or scandinavian societies.
The problem is not just about polititians, or Wall Street, is about people. In the United States, are a lot of more problems that bad politicians or corporations. I would say that the entire philosophy of the society has been affected by certain kind of believes not sustainable.
Is not only about distributing income, is also about distributing social and civic responsabilities and obligations. Best regards. R.
Paraphrasing from this article by Ben Palumbo: http://catholicsinalliance.org/cgf8311palumbo.php
The Irish and Spanish problems derive from real estate bubbles and bank irresponsibility which was caused by those societies emulating the rampant American financial fraud and irresponsibility of America’s “business leaders.” Italy is a different matter. Its problems derive from the lack of political stewardship for years by another “business leader,” Silvio Berlusconi, whom The Economist magazine recently put on its cover with the caption: “The Man Who Screwed An Entire Country.” The magazine called his reign a “disastrous, even malign, failure.”
The mention of Greece brings to mind reports that the well-to-do of that country have engaged in rampant massive tax cheating for years, starving the government of needed revenue that would have helped avert its crisis.
You have made a number of unsubstantiated and insupportable assertions rooted in racism and nationalism. I'd say based upon your comment that you have little respect for people, which undermines most of whatever it is you are struggling to express about human nature.
Whatever it is you are trying to say I'd suggest joining up with the movement and make your voice heard. You might learn something when you hear what those around you have to say back.
What???
Aaronparr. Good evening.
Thank you for your message Aaron. I am very sorry, if I was not clear, or if I have been irrespectful at any point, with other people or cultures. That was not my point, and I sincerely apologize, if I have been misunderstood.
I do consider, that there are cultural elements that shape societies and political structures and models. In this regard, I think again, that the problem in the United States is deeply rooted not only on Walls Street, Government, or Corporations, but in fundamental principles of it, as a social project. I think, this is not only a particular problem of the United States, I consider, for example, that in latinamerica, that same problem persist.
I do not know, what this statement have to do with race, since I have not in any moment talked about that.
I do not know, Why do you suggest that I have little respect for the people, since in fact, my point is precisely based on it.
Capitalism has not only shaped institutions, or governance structures, but also believes and ideology. In this regard, I would say, that capitalism has extensively biased the very notion of life in a strong capitalistic society like the United States. Canada, for example, is an interesting case of ethics, culture, and social organization.
If the movement, to a certain extent want to achieve similar successes, or alternative ones, have to think beyond wall street. It is sad, to say it, but it is the reality.
I would have to say again. It is not only about distributing income, it is also about distributing social and civic responsabilities and obligations.
Revolutions are long term projects, possible, but complex.
Best regards Aaronparr.
S.
R.
This was pretty clear: you said, "The people from Greece and Italy, are much more irresponsable, socially and politically than much of the population of Germany, Austria or scandinavian societies."
Thats both racism as well as nationalism. I am not ignorant of the tensions in Europe, and am I highly suspicious of whatever ideas you may have as you've got a mess in the way of your thinking. It would help you to clear out that kind of trash thinking.
But regardless your statements bear little weight on the aspirations of revolutionaries in the US - unless you happen to be here (but I doubt that you are). We will do the best we can, and i DO have a clear idea about what is happening in the world - austerity measures are a means to further exploitation by the 1% of the 99%. And with a movement like OWS it makes it easier to combat.
How is "The people from Greece and Italy, are much more irresponsable, socially and politically than much of the population of Germany, Austria or scandinavian societies" racist, if it's the truth?
You aware of how that kind of thinking enabled the Third Reich to take over Germany? How about the same kind of thinking that is enabling our own potential fascist - Rick Perry - from gaining influence in the US?
It is never the truth. Human nature is much more complex than that. Behavior is not determined by nation/race.
I agree that behavior is not determined by nation/race, but it can be determined by culture/culture determined by behavior. And behavior IS "catchy". Just take a look at religion for one example. That is my point.
Its much too complex to dump all the people of a country into one box. There is disagreement in each of those societies amongst individuals about how to deal with the "debt crisis" for example. And there is disagreement in the northern european countries about how to keep their economies competititve. Germany chose to roll back its worker protections in order to lower costs and increase exports. Its not like the Germans are simply more responsible. Sure German history raises awareness of the inflation rate there, but that doesn't make them all responsible.
I don't think the intent was to dump all the people into one box.... but the majority of the people, in any country and in regard to any type of cultural behavior, can greatly determine the outcomes. I'm speaking in general terms, but there are cultural beliefs and practices that will determine the outcomes. I don't know the details of the things that are happening in Europe at the moment. I just was commenting about how cultural beliefs can influence the state of a nation.
Anyway, I get your point. Thanks for the civil responses.
Well I guess to put my point in the simplest terms: this is a slippery slope. I think it is better to look at other factors first and perhaps throw in the fuzzy/categorical explanations later.
Anyway.. this is much beyond the point I was initially making which I think is much more important: that the first world is seeing predation by financial elites because regions like latin america threw off the yoke of the IMF and their disastrous economic restructuring policies.
Agreed.
Reply.
Aaronparr.
You say I am a nationalist. I would say, that I don´t believe too much in the notion of nations, as mayor organizational structures. You say, that I am a racist. I do not know why. But it doesnt matter. You say, that I have a trash thinking, In reply I would say, that maybe you are right.
Instead of trying to insult me, it would be better from you to try to get a dialog with me. Today, I am living in Europe. I have lived twice in Europe, in different countries. I have also lived in the United States, twice.I very much respect and appreciate the people from the United States, as well as the people from Europe. But that doesnt make me try to avoid political elements of the organization of societies that may be conduced differently.
Austerity measures are certainly a problem. But there are political structures (societies) that are long term unsustainable, and you have to accept that.
Best regards Aaronparr.
Maybe next time, you stop insulting me.
I wish you success.
Sincerely.
R.
Hi Ruecast. What did you meant by the phrase "The people from Greece and Italy, are much more irresponsable, socially and politically than much of the population of Germany, Austria or scandinavian societies"? Do you mean that the people in Greece and Italy voted for political leaders who made them promises even though they knew that these political leaders were not trustworthy and that these promises were unrealistic? If not, could you rephrase this line and maybe explain what you meant?
zz1968
Thank you for the reply. I think naturally is a very difficult question to answer. However, for recent decades, some Mediterranean countries adopted living standards that went beyond the capacity of payment for governments. At the same time, the process of construction of norms, institutions and social control (I mean culturally, between citizens), seems to be much more rigorous at the north, than at the south of Europe.
It is very difficult to know the reasons behind this facts, I personally tend to theorize over two main approaches. First. For decades, the south of Italy, Greece, or Spain, instead of being forced for looking for ways for social organization, enjoy the privileges of having economies boosted by tourism. Sometimes, I have the impression that this situation created a culture that was politically more relaxed, and tend to create great burocracy, political corruption, and a reduction of certain cultural standards. Second, on the contrary, for decades, some economies from the north, tend to generate more strict control over societies, human capital, inequalities, and the construction of certain cultures based in knowledge, equality, and political neutrality. Maybe because of this reason, today, they tend to be, from my perspective, a bit less relaxed (culturally), but more organized.
There is an interesting contrast in this regard. During recent decades, Italian mainstream media, have influenced the society and the potential voters. Paradoxically, mainstream media, has been also extensively controlled by Berlusconi. Today, Berlusconi is clearly one of the darker chapters of modern politics of Italy, but at the time, the idea of the "italian winner" personified in Berlusconi, attracted, a lot of voters.
In contrast, for example, Germany, has now in charge, a woman, that by many standards is very different, culturally, and politically, than Berlusconi. She was also presented over the mainstream media, but mainstream media in Germany, is not only corporative, but social. Syndicates, and communities, have a voice, and share a percentage on the content of mainstream media. And that has helped them, to define the contents, as well as to shape and to maintain their own culture. (By the way, if you want to have a TV in Germany, you have to pay for it, just as any other social service).
At the end, I have the impression, that this self-control, and this sense of social civic censorship, during recent decades, has shaped these countries differently. It is my impression, to think, that they are in an interesting path, far from other countries on Europe, and certainly from a very big and complex country like the United States.
For the case of the United States, it is very difficult to know, the results of the OWS movement. Certainly Wall Street needs rigorous accountability. Certainly United States, must initiate a path for reducing extensive economic inequalities (that have leaded to political inequalities). But as far as the movement don´t look for radical changes over mainstream media, change seems to me very far.
I think it is not impossible. But I would rather say that the movement, need to think into main political scenarios. 1) The movement must have a clear, time framed, set of serious demands (It is not only about distributing income. Distributing income must also be sustainable). 2) The movement must know that the time frame for a set of serious demands, in a country like the United States, must be fitted in interval between 5 to 10 years (just as the civil rights struggle).
I am sorry If I have written too much. I apologize for my english.
Best regards. S. R.
PD. I am very willing to follow the further steps of the movement. You have to be very carefull. You must know, that this is just the begining.
PD. I am again very sorry, for having a lack of tact, in speaking about Italy or Greece. You don´t know how I appreciate Italy. The family of my sister is from Italy. And you don´t know how much I appreciate them and that country. The same goes for Spain.
Bests.
I agree that Northern European countries at least have a more sustainable economic model than Southern European countries. Surprisingly enough that has also let to a more ecological model: France is now keeping up but for decades recycling of garbage was basically only done in the Northern countries. I share your fear that, if no agreed priorities are set for chance of the current system, then nothing will happen. I am a bit short of time now but I am sure we will talk more later Cheers
What is there to dialog about? You are blaming the debt problems in Europe on some vague notion that people in particular nations are in general irresponsible. And that those in Northern Europe are more responsible.
And you have no inkling as to why I would call you nationalist and racist? Until you get these confused notions about people out of your head, it will be very difficult to have a discussion with you.
Just a suggestion: rather than attacking someone it may be an idea to ask why (s)he says something or what )s)he means with that. Not everyone (including me!) has English as their mother tongue. You will have noticed I hope that Ruecast writes courteous and therefore deserves respect. As a starter: you called him a racist and he is insulted. That is good! It would be really bad if you called him a racist and he would have said 'That is right!', So you two have something in common: you both don't like racists
I pointed out the exact line which offended me and explained why. R's statement is quite clear and indicates prejudice towards both greeks and italians, while suggesting that northern europeans are superior. You can't explain that away by lack of fluency in the language.
I gave R a chance to address this. R side stepped it. I then restated what I thought Ruecast was saying. Nothing.
One's courteousness is irrelevant in this case. Its better to challenge someone's statements directly. While it is obvious that Ruecast does not recognize these statements as racist and nationalist - it does not change the fact that they are.
Your first two posts actually do not contain a question mark. The first line with a question mark is in your third post "What is there to dialog about?" which can hardly be seen as an opening phrase for a dialog. You stated a number of things that Ruecast felt offended by and he then spends basically two posts on defending himself focusing on what you said rather than what he said in his initial post. No real exchange of information. I am not sure if you realize but challenging someone rather than asking can be seen as quite aggressive because it directly puts someone in a moral corner: language is more than words, it is also about style. I just asked Ruecast the question what he meant with these statements, let's see what he writes back.
I do realize that challenging someone forces them to defend them self. That is the point. The question mark is your thing. Not mine.
Just for your info: Ruecast replied with a much more articulated answer. Whether you agree with him or not, fact is that you will now have more information to base your opinion of him on. The question mark is not so much my thing: it is a great tool for knowledge gathering as well as for forcing people to think. Something else I learned is that you can only make peace with your enemies, not with your friends since they are already your friends. And in making peace you need to stay in contact. Just my two Euro cents. Cheers
You got no real answer from Ruecast. Its the same thing but more long winded - and without evidence. There is a danger of going down this path of thinking. Encouraging someone to meander about in my experience doesn't help.
If it works for you, great. But I don't have weeks to get to the bottom of this person's fuzzy thinking - presenting unrelated circumstances and then explaining them by some kind of national character.
Its a slippery slope. Its dangerous. As a European I would think you would be intensely aware of these dangers. Perhaps Ruecast means well. But regardless of intent, this way of thinking arrives at no place of benefit. And so rather than encourage that way of thinking - I challenge it. If you wish to encourage it, and somehow perhaps therapeutically cure Ruecast - more power to you. But I only extend such energy to people that I can see in front of me.
I see your way of thinking as being way more harmful. You need to pull the reigns on yourself back a bit harder.
Thats a good way to fail or never to learn limits. Let the world push back on you. Push as hard as you can on it. Keep an open mind and learn from it.
But if you challenge nothing you learn nothing.
I was referring to your choice of words. If you disagree with what Ruecast is saying, then fine, and it's fine to challenge others. I just think you could've said it in a more civil way.... that's all.
I think it averages out. Not everyone is the same.
I believe you'll get all the focus you need by reading 'Declaration of the Occupation of New York City'. Only then will you realize that this is a global issue. The monied interests have permeated every aspect of our lives and this needs to be addressed. Take the time to read the Declaration, do your own research, and come back and add your comments to the discussion.
On this I am in total agreement. I am amazed how important money is in this country and how much you need just to get a degree, feed yourself and stay healthy. I have lived in 5 countries and this one is by far the one where it is much more important how much you have rather than who you are
Yet, so many Americans can't (or refuse) to see that... "I have lived in 5 countries and this one is by far the one where it is much more important how much you have rather than who you are". They don't get that we have many big issues to take care of.... healthcare, education, jobs to name a few.
People don't complain about those in prison getting a free ride on our backs.... FREE healthcare, FREE education, FREE food, FREE room and board, FREE recreation..... yet, many of our citizens bitch and complain about everyone else getting affordable healthcare. And, on top of that, many states (including Michigan.... my state) by law force everyone to have car insurance.... and people don't complain about that but will complain about the notion of everyone having affordable healthcare. It makes my head spin.
Keith Oberman also read the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City it on his show Wed. Nite. Go to current tv
I appreciate your sense of diversity and pluralism. I agree that this movement does not, and cannot represent all voices. It emanates from a very unique context - the American System and its disenchantments. OWS has a texture that will be nonsensical in my country, for instance (Nigeria). However, there is another sense that this represents a truly global effort. For one, America has for many years set up itself as the colonizing centre of the world. The proliferation of a single ethical guideline (the Human Rights Charter), the establishment of 'world' governing institutions (such as the IMF, World Bank and NAFTA), as well as the very real aspirations for a 'new world order' make this protest of global import. By spreading the hegemony of a single story, our livelihoods in Africa have long been demonized by the new consumerism by which we all seek to define our lifepaths. Schooling, fractional reserve banking, profit-making - all these trends have made the ongoing project to make the 'West' the core of our lives a very threatening reality. So, in a compelling way, OWS is a strike at the centre of the belly of a 'beast' - an overgrown warlord that has thrived by dividing the rich and poor by first creating those categories.
OWS will not 'change' the world. No. There is not one world, there are many. But OWS might just be the precipice, the moment by which the worlds at the fringes will finally find a place to breathe again.
Have you been paying attention? The issues that this protest is about DO affect the WHOLE world.
How can you say that the problem of "health care not available for everyone" does not exist abroad? Billions of people around this planet would strongly disagree with you on this point. The same is true of access to education. Look past the borders of North America and the E.U., as the Wall Street titans do as they seek resources to exploit.
Apologies, I see that my comments could be explained in a different way than I intended. With 'abroad' I meant 'in many other countries' rather then 'in the rest of the world'. I think it will be difficult to fix everything at once and think this movement should focus on fixing the USA first as this is where your influence is. I found the stories on http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/ shocking. I was born in Europe and much of this just does not exist there. I don't know anybody in my family who does not have health insurance. Even when you loose your job you will just remain insured. I graduated without a debt. None of my classmates had a debt as everything is paid for by the state provided that you pass a reasonable amount of exams each year. I was today at Zocotti park and I saw people with sign of Karl Marx and a flag of Che Guevara. I am afraid that people will focus on this kind of things and put the movement away as a bunch of hippies. Nothing wrong with hippies, I like hippies, I was hugged by one today, but it will not help you gaining influence.
On this I agree. The focus of each General Assembly should be in their own local area.
However there is a need for a broader movement (eventually) because the 1% does not belong to any single nation, and they are a corrosive influence in the politics of all countries.
When one region of the world resists them, another suffers. Latin America has done well for itself by throwing off the IMF and World Bank's control and then suddenly debt in Europe and the USA is said to be a crushing problem requiring structural reforms and austerity. Its the same pattern put forth by the same 1% interests, and they just hop around from one region to the next opportunistically. To truly stamp it out, the entire world must resist them in unison.
agreeing and shaking hands with you
Remove any Politician that gives Trillions of dollars to Perpetuate Needless Foreign Wars, Banks, Wall Street, and “Money Laundering” Fake green energy companies. If the energy company is real and has potential, then good, give them money. Don't give money to a company just because the company gives big money to the Politician. The Politician will then blame the company that received the money, sound familiar? The largest criminal is the Politician. Remove the Politicians that vote for, or do nothing to stop this behavior. It is that easy. If they are corrupt, Republican or Democrat, vote them out. Not all Politicans are bad, but enough are. We need to remove the Politicians and not let them play us against each other, so it keeps our attention off their power grabs, using our money. They are trying to distract us off of who is giving our money away, “the Politicians.” Let’s focus on Protesting Washington.
We should hold the politicians accountable. They have been buying personal power by paying off Wall Street & Banks. Change comes in a Democracy by electing politicians that put their country first and not themselves first. Capitalism provided me with this computer, to communicate without the filter of the government or the elite’s control. It allows me to speak out against political corruption. We need to protest the Politicians that wrote the checks out of our accounts. Not just the people that received the checks. We need to let Washington know it is not ok to write checks out of our accounts. Join us on a march on Washington and the Whitehouse. Let’s show the crooked Politicians how a Democracy works. Politicians are the only electable leaders of this country. Lets remove the bad apples November 2012.
Things must change, but what is the next best alternative? Here is an idea for a new political party based on surveys. http://thenewthirdparty.blogspot.com/
Nothing in the universe is too big to fail, leave it to a politician or Federal Reserve chairman to make such an ignorant claim. And little has been done to correct the ignorant claim even though Bernanke kept repeating it was a problem two years ago.
I believe watching this Documentary will help the 99% focus thought and create clarity... A PETE MCGRAIN FILM IN ASSOCIATION WITH MEDIA FOR ACTION: Hosted by WOODY HARRELSON This powerful documentary examines the flaws in our systems, the mechanisms that work against Democracy, the environment, and society as a whole: From conflicts of interest in politics, the abuses of corporate power, to a news media that serves the interests of the few, leading to the destruction of our ecosystems, over consumption and warfare. This controversial documentary is in post production. Watch it free online here: http://www.ethosthemovie.com/filmdownload.html
There is a way to achieve what you both want. CUT OFF THE MONEY! WHY? Because .....Money is the Root of al Evil! Now wait,,,WAIT......I'm sure you have all heard this phrase. So if it is true....then to accomplish your goal of stopping Greed and the Evil that invades Wall Street and our Government.......CUT OFF THE MONEY! Stop the relationships between Corporate American and our Government. Amend the Constitution to have, "Separation of Corporation and State" Corporations are not People. They can not vote in an election and should not have a financial influence on our Government. Cut off the link between the two, namely Taxes and Lobbyist. Corporations should not pay taxes. People pay taxes. Corporation now just pass the cost of taxation on to the consumer in the price of their goods and services. No Taxes on Corporation is better business and then they have no say in Government. Tax all people Fairly. More on how to achieve this later.
Amend the Constitution by Federally funding elections for the House, Senate and the Presidency. Eliminating corporate influence on politicians will translate across the board on a variety of issues from the viability of third parties to the ability of passing social justice issues and environmental concerns. The Supreme Courts recent ruling granted corporations access to the political process and it will require a Constitutional ammendment to overturn it.
I find these truths to be self evident and agree with your main premise that Corporation have to much control of our government and create a conflict of interest. I suggest that the reverse is also possibly true. The award winning documentary film " Inside Job" sheds light on the financial meltdown and why it happened (Greed). The main point is that Government has no business being involved in Corporations and Corporations have no business being involved in Government. Our government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth (Not a government of corporations, by corporation, for corporations). Just as we found there was no place for Government involvement with Religion and visa versa, we have the 1st Amendment "Separation of Church and State". Therefore we should move for another Amendment of "SEPARATION OF CORPORATIONS AND STATE"! There is no room for one meddling in the other. The governments role is to create laws to protect the people from Greedy Corporations that steal our money and livelihood.
We must have a government free from the influence of money. Saying we have the best politicians money can buy no longer has any humor. The election cycle is the place to begin. Rooting our the corporate shills requires a complete overhaul of the election process.
1 elections will be no longer than six months
2 All House, Senate, and Presidential elections will be taxpayer funded
3 No personal fortunes may be used
4 all persons working for a candidate will be volunteers
5 A petition process will qualify candidates for office
Election wise give the Senators and Congressmen two years, if they can't pass any meaningful legislation in that time, we will know it and vote them out of office. No term limits for Presidents, if they suck, they will not get re-elected, simple as that. If they are good, we can keep them around as long as they do their job effectively and to our satisfaction since they work for us. As to funding the elections, I think the television networks should provide FREE airtime for Presidential debates as a public service, all the rest of those ads that are used to make the other candidates seem crooked should be stopped. Why do we need to be brainwashed hearing all the crap before we vote? WIth regards to taxpayers funding them, is their a ceiling on that, are the amounts equally distributed or will some of them run up the bill like a bad bar tab? With the current lineup, the superstates like NY and California could be stuck having Romney visit and stump here often just to try to get the votes, we don't want that. I think I'll write in Alex Jones for President in 2012!
There is no rational reason a Presidential election should cost a billion dollars for one candidate as is projected during the 2012 cycle. Sure the advertising industry will take a hit without a gazillion ads flooding the airways, but who cares. If a candidate makes the grade by fulfilling the petition process, they would then receive a set amount of dollars to use during their campaign. Public airways would broadcast debates.
This is also about the voter fulfilling their obligation to be informed. With the ability to communicate to many for next to nothing via the internet the old election models are out the window.
As to term limits, its an infringement on my right to choose who I want to represent me. Term limits can occur every time there is an election.
I'm for equal time and money for each candidates campaign, and I agree with no term limits. That is an infringement on the voters right to choose. I'm for more candidate debates, statements of their (4P's) positions, platforms, plans and programs for performing their official duties to uphold the Constitution of these United States and make Laws that protect the rights, liberties, and our pursuit of happiness. There will be no mudslinging or comments about the competing candidates. Only what is found from good investigative journalism that can be substantiated.
A campaign for office shouldn't be like selling a car. Condensing a candidates message down to a 30 second sound bite does not serve the public well.
I agree wholeheartedly the 4th estate has an important role. I think it was Jefferson who said an informed electorate is essential to democracy.
Go OWS and our Democracy!
Fight back! http://99vs1.wordpress.com !!!
absolutely. well put. totally agree. failure = game over for any chance of humanity.
But, we are doing the same thing, right now.
Why haven't they posted the fund raising totals? Has anyone been tweeted with them? Can anyone find out WHERE the money is being held, and by WHOM? Anyone? I keep asking, and all I get are chirpping crickets!!
Just an update, 24 hours and no response any where about the money or who is holding it. The donations are going to a bank in Central America, the the "General Assemble" meets out of a Spa Resort in Nicraragua. 24 hours and no response to this; http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-nwo-just-owned-our-asses/
VOTE COUNTING MINISTRY, PACIFIC GROVE CALIFORNIA, The USA Parliament is expanding to a 99.9% (1/1001ths) plus 1000 votes guaranteed satisfaction level starting 1/1/2012. The one thousand elected members of parliament (MPs) can then elect the three prime ministers, two secretaries and one set of rules.
Check out the direct democracy (DD) eballot too, which is guaranteed to elect all the 120 alternative ideas (plus three lines for write-in ideas), those which receive a majority of the tics:
http://usparliament.org/v-h-dd.php
Three items have already been approved for the platform.
http://usparliament.org/platform.php
Will you be at the general assembly on sunday ? I think that #ows is open to your ideas.
MiMi1026, thank you for your response.
Sadly, I will not be at the general assembly on Sunday, I am maintaining the USA Parliament operation from Central California and I'm not much of a traveler. Glad to hear #ows is open to our ideas, the USA Parliament is a large collection of ideas from very many people, based on ranked choice voting, votes kept as proof.
I am one of two secretaries, and we are both located in California. Most of our participants are in super-states ss11 (California), ss12 (PacificNW) and ss8 (Mid-West).
I hope to work with #ows more. I suggest they recruit members for the New York Super-state Parliament (and all super-states) through self nominations and self appointments, since all appointments and nominations are like votes, and we're powered by votes - the more the better.
New York Super-state Parliament:
http://www.usparliament.org/ss2.php
I think that this is an excellent idea.
We are no longer a democracy. This country is controlled by corporate greed and the stooges in DC they paid for. The political divide between "liberal and conservative" is cultural Kool Aide to keep the status quo. WE ARE THE 99%.
For True! The sleeping giant 99% has awoken from her slumber.
Nassim Taleb - 'The Banks Have Hijacked the Government'
http://youtu.be/WkT8dFA1xNE
It began a long time ago Nassim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZne09Gf5A&feature=related Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjUrib_Gh0Y Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BVNN1wqw3k&feature=related Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPPFgHF9VR4 Part 5
That's how the Federal Reserve began. That's how the New World Order took over control of the financial system. When they stopped using the gold standard (meaning the money had to be backed with gold) that is when they began to be able to take over the land and businesses, leading up to where we are today. The people who control the money are from that 1%, they are also beholden to the Illuminati, and are systematically enslaving the entire world. The good news is, after the anti-Christ rises and the prophecy "none shall be able to buy or sell unless he has the mark of the beast on his head or right hand" - which he will be able to do, all they need is a one world currency, and a one world govt. There will be a war with Israel, the Bible tells you that in Ezekiel, Islamic prophecy tells you that also, after that (it will last 7 years, in the 6th year a prominent man from Europe will be the only one who can get a peace treaty signed Christian prophecy says he will be the anti-Christ) people will be sick of war, it will take 7 months to bury all the dead from this war. The war will involve China, Russia, 10 nations will go up against Israel, with the US and it's allies backing Israel, till you got this big holy war going on. People will be so upset, they will propose this idea of a one world army, that way there will be no more wars, people will accept it. That is when the anti-Christ will have control over the world, the one world currency, one world govt., one world army. But he will not prevail. Muslims know the Mahdi will emerge, and will join up with forces from Afghanistan, and Pakistan, Jesus will emerge from Syria and help the Jews, plus the Muslims, till the final showdown occurs. So we will got thru a lot of bad things, but in the end, justice will prevail. Both religions agree on that.
BORING!!!!
11.11.11 Most probably vote on Palestininan statehood at the UN (NYC), two boats headed to Gaza seized by Israel (this past week), OWS occupies Central Park (NYC). It might get more interesting for ya soooon.
Snoring, yaawwn! U.S. president shot dead, Bobby Kennedy shot dead, Martin King shot dead, Ohio protesters shot dead. Getting interesting? The more things change the more they stay the same, Darling.
Well also on today, Joe Biden is in town for something or other, and I think he is downtown.
Than do something. Run for office.
It's "then", not "than". "Than" is a comparison.
If the politicians are influenced by money, then that political figure does NOT represent you. It's false representation for your district and the people within that community. And these people we voted in don't seem to work together very well. Can we fix this by allowing huge budget spending bills to being voted upon by the people?...a nation-wide vote to get things rolling? This vote procedure would stand for 100% of America, not 99% and the 1%.
We have never lived in a democracy. The country was founded as a representative republic. If we had been a true democracy, the country would already have ceased to exist.
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy,(which is) always followed by a dictatorship."
Alexander Tyler , 1787
Meaningless sophistry.
When people talk about "Democracy" they are talking about the ability of the public to make themselves heard in the government. In addition if you have ever taken part in local politics and decision making in your area, it would be abundantly clear to you how the spirit of a Democracy comes through when the public is given the floor at a council meeting - and it drags on and on.
In my city, the City Council despite trying to ram through draconian police policy was forced to reconsider because the public was allowed to speak out against the potential law before the council.
Civics is not academic. You can't just call this a representative republic. The democratic processes in our system are more profound than you likely realize.
It very much concerns me how many on the right are jumping on this "we're not a democracy" bandwagon. I've noticed that the term has been vilified over the past decade, at least.
"Republic" is a very broad term. The Soviet Union's full name was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Last I checked, the most populous country in the world is the People's Republic of China. When most people refer to modern governments as "Democracies", we generally mean a very special type of constitutional republic governed by democratic processes.
Its been going around for a long time. Its just the same old internet blather.
Agreed.
Duh..we have never been a true democracy. We have always been a representative republic. That was done on purpose. True democracies throughout history have failed. Once the public realizes they can vote themselves money from the treasury, that starts the decline. That is what all of these social programs have done. Started giving people money from the treasury. These programs are why we are in debt. We got by nearly 200 years without them, and have gone down hill since they started. They need to be done away with. Study history a little before you shoot your mouth off.
You can't have it both ways, but your point was misplaced before you muddled it up anyway. Our government derives its legitimacy from democratic processes. Obfuscating this fact with the obvious is mere sophistry at best.
The children are being born all over the world right now, as I type. San Diego was exquisitely beautiful tonight. Each new occupation starts with a slap on the ass and a gasp for breath, and then begins to cry for the world it wishes to inhabit. We must support the other occupations, or we are not the 99%, and far from it.
The focus on the movement here in NYC has been a success, but being only one location, it is an easy target. It can (and possibly will) be shoved into nonexistence with brute force in the near future. For the movement to be unstoppable, the fledgling groups in 933 cities (and counting) need support and encouragement. So reach out in your hometown for the new legs of the movement, and support them as you are able.
The 99% does not all live in NYC. Many of the 1% have offices there, but they go somewhere else at night (Connecticut, for example). Many of the 1% never step foot in NYC (why should they). But with 933 (and counting) movements in the USA alone, and others in places as far as Europe, Asia, and South America, it is time to carry the message forward.
So my request is that if you have resources to commit to this movement, consider your own backyard as part of the revolution. Sacramento, Boston, Atlanta, Dallas,... the list goes on and on. All are fighting to find their voices. And watching each emerge is as moving as watching a new child being born.
In particular, the value of having a live feed at these startups cannot be overstated. As humans, we are all voyeurs and budding rockstars by nature. I have watched it first hand now on several occasions. Something about the presence of the camera, even if it is just a webcam, causes each of us to act as though we are being watched (duh).
People adopt the GA process much more readily when the feel the world is watching. They resolve their difference more amicably, and they put aside petty squabbles more readily when told they are on the live stream. They get down to business and do the job, instead of posturing for advantage and squabbling over trivialities.
Perhaps it is the nature of our age, that we all feel like we can be stars and the sky is the limit, now that we are all recording each other for posterity.. But anyway, the fact is that having a live feed with outside observers commenting on the action as it unfolds has been shown to bring out the best in people. I have witnessed this several times around the nation (from afar), and the rest of the world is not far behind.
And isn't it perhaps a bit of poetic justice that the electronic devices which have been given to us, in lieu of all of the things that have been left behind, should be used to document and change the world that foisted them upon us?
Enough philosophy. The startup occupations need adequate video and sound capture gear, and a platform upon which to show the world what they have done. Because they won't do much unless they feel someone is watching (that is human nature). But when the feed is rolling and the chatter is coming in.."Nice hat" "I agree" "What about the cops", etc, etc. this gives folks a sense that what they do is connected with the rest of the world.
So this is a plea to any and all that have economic resources, or time and expertise, to contribute toward taking this thing beyond NYC. Live video feeds at the startups is a necessary tool for bringing this movement from Wall St. to Main St. Pick a city of your choice: Occupy Together lists 933 cities (and counting) that have joined the fray in the USA alone. And these are boots on the ground and butts on the line right now, not some abstract intangible ideals. A week from now, they will get tired and go home, without some encouragement. That is also human nature.
The opinion of one of the 99%. Rant over.
you want too much too fast and it will lead to bloodshed and failure
to ms3000: as always in revolutions there is a provocateur person who is trying to manipulate and calm people. Him, the ms3000 is one of those. He posted: "you want too much too fast and it will lead to bloodshed and failure". What do you mean you want too much? is it too much when people need a job and food? is it too much asking for freedom? is it too much to stop the your greedy friends in wallstreet and fed?
THAT'S REVOLUTION, go on boys and girls. A friend from Greece
And there are those in revolutions who urge action prematurely which will result in certain failure: that is olivexx
Everyone can decide for themselves. But it is best not to make decisions out of fear.
Consistent use of video and audio to spread the word and drive the narrative will lead to bloodshed? Hmmm.
I agree with Boletus' (windy) exposition: you cannot understate the importance of streaming video (and YouTube). I have suggested in the past that--in the interest of full transparency that whoever's doing the live feed be included as a matter of course in every GA meeting. Today, we have CSPAN for the US Congress, but it's nonsense--the real work, the constructing of actual policy gets made in backrooms and behind closed doors. That needs to change and #OWS can and should lead the way in changing it by making video and audio a key priority.
The power of corporate communications is the actually the biggest threat to this movement (the first thing taken in every revolution throughout modern history? Radio and Television stations.) And recognizing by fighting back early on with a coordinated, consistent video strategy is critical.
You need to make the changes palpable to the majority of the 99% or the cause is lost and we will lapse into civil war. Violence must be avoided at all costs. We know revolutionary change can be achieved through non-violence! This 99% action plan has been revised and updated to include a Platform for the 2012 Election and a Petition of Grievances as authorized by the First Amendment.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Well, I suggested a specific process change: include complete coverage of the GA meetings. That's real, it's not hypothetical. The video strategy on the whole, that's a bigger issue. I don't think all will be lost and devolve into violence over the issue of video coverage. I think that's overly dramatic. And how would that happen--palpably--anyway?
And is this an official #OccupyWallSt posting?
No "corporate" owned media... So do you suggest a government-run media agency instead? We all know those always work well.
No, you misunderstand the point: In the absence of a counterweight, the MSM drives the narrative for the movement. Therefore #OWS needs to do this on its own with a comprehensive, well thought out media plan. It has nothing to do with corporate vs. government media. That's not the point at all. Please try to address the specific points of what's being posted.
NO it mUST happen...it should begin slowly and evolve. Legislating is HARD HARD work ... people are different and have different interests but it MUST MUST MUST start somewhere.... our BROKEN, intractable and utterly racist (mostly Republican) MUST be stopped. DO NOT hand this to Romney or it will be more of the same but much much worse. Be savvy at what is possible and DO NOT let money ruin everything!
Both parties are funded by the corporations. Guess who was the top donor for Obama's 2008 campaign? Goldman Sachs - $1,013,091
Agreed but lets not forget that this President's election was fueled by Wall Street money. Therefore what he says and what he does with regard to Wall Street are two different things. Obama is in bed with Wall Street. Time for another change!
Exactly. You can't let worry about the presidential election derail the Occupy movement. There is too much money in National politics. Expectations that any leading candidate will represent the concerns of the 99% lead to the election of Obama in the first place, and the frustration that is pouring out in the movement. Its just not possible to have our voices heard in National politics when the ears of politicians bend to money. The occupation needs to grow. Thats the first thing. Positive change will grow out of that naturally. And the first governments that will be influenced by the movement will be local. Starting with the police and then growing out into municipalities. We could do a great deal of positive change on that level to resist austerity measures and protect ourselves from the exploitation of the 1%.
Agreed. I do expect the democratic party to try to use the OWS to their advantage. Obama may try to portray himself as one of the 99%. We have to send the clear message that we are not here to get the next president elected. This is about cleaning up the system.
I can stand with you on that.
Rick Perry was invited by the Bilderbergs to their 2007 meeting in Istanbul, he attended. They liked him because he will have widespread appeal, they will present things to him and make it sound nice, like the carbon tax, will help stop global warming, restore the environment etc.etc., if he became President, he will sign it into law, then the shadow govt. who actually runs things, will see to it that the funds go to fund the shadow govt and their allies. Even when Bush was in office, Cheney had his own private meetings with the intel people at 4:30 am, then the intel and Cheney woould meet with Bush at 7:30 am each day. Cheney was running the show,and they would only tell Bush what they wanted him to know. So you want to blame Obama? May not be his fault. There's a lot that goes on behind a President's back and it's always been that way, and probably will continue like that.
Supports fromChina.The people of the world put on their eyes on America now.And we believe u can change the world.God bless USA
Thank you for your support! You are our brothers and sisters and I salute your patience and your courage. Each year I light a candle on the anniversary of the Tienanmen Square massacre to honor the young martyrs of the pro-Democracy Movement. In fact, I would like to see the OWS movement remember them and honor their memory in some official manner.
May justice come to America, to China and to the rest of the world!
And God bless our beloved, aching Planet Earth.
nowThe most young don't known what happened in1989.Justice and liberty are too far for China.
Don't give up hope. History shows you are a strong and determined people and there are many signs that the people of China will soon be joining the Worldwide Movement for Social Justice.
My favorite form of the Goddess is Kwan Yin. May she bless China and deliver her from all shackles!
Thank you.In China,there are thousands Movements every year.And how?nothing have been changed.Only war and blood is our hope,just like Libya.
Equal pay and justice for all!
The Emporer has no clothes! The Emporer has spoken! Emporer Billionaire Mayor Bloomberg assertained that the OWS protesters is costing New Yorkers jobs! It just shows how out of touch the 1% is and Bloomberg is part of the problem! Perhaps the OWS protesters should demand the resignation of Mayor Bloomberg and his Goon Squad Police Chief! Instead of arresting protesters they should be arresting the Wall Street Banksters and Brokerages that caused the crises! Obviously they work for Goldman Sacks and Chase Manhattan Banks and not for the people, the 99%! They will not send their friends to prison! Is that called aiding and abetting, a Felony!
It's a good thing that it's costing NYC money.... because then maybe those in control will get the message.... just maybe.
Yeah that guy is terrible. My thinking is that since these occupations impact the local governments primarily... it would be good to begin a dialog with them and get the rank in file in those governments on your side. The blue clothes police for example are clearly all 99%ers. Help them recognize that.... anyway. Good luck!
Where did the elites and corrupt leaders of the Wall Street go to college?
Should these colleges be exempt of this protest ? These colleges nurtured and were the stepping stones for the career of many of these corrupt investment bankers. Should these colleges be trusted ??
" Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and Wharton. A new study shows that recruiters for the best law firms, investment banks, and consultancy firms are only looking at graduates of those schools, Business Insider reports. " http://www.newser.com/story/109556/recruiters-columbia-mit-are-so-second-tier.html
Great question. Everyone knows the "elite" & ivy league colleges have been breeding prized careerist investment bankers for decades now. "Best & Brightest" and all that tripe. I wonder if their fellow students are challenging them at all? Obviously not all graduates of these schools go into banking or working for the clampdown, but the ones that do seem to be prized and valued most by their institutions. Most of the protest movements of the 60's began on campus. It's interesting how this one didn't, although it seems to include many students.
I am not sure if they should be OWS locations. It may be better to try to get support from students there instead. Of course, we may not get much support from the finance and management departments but there are other departments that do real work - science and arts.
Interesting locations to target.
A very pretentious statement here. US citizens need to understand that they are laggards as far the people's movements are concerned. It all started in the Arab countries, then came India. People in the US have just woken up.
To pretend that they are the Vanguard is a part of the delusion that conservatives have fed them. Talk about your own country, the world is competent to take care of themselves, only if your government stops interfering.
All said and done the people worldwide support your movement. May it gather more strength and take away the US from the clutches of the Military-Industrial complex that has taken over the US.
Thank you for the reminder....I, too, fear that "we here in the US" too often take credit for and/or interfere with other's countries. And thank you for the support. We need it. And are grateful for it.
Agreed. Although it did not start with Tunisia and Egypt. Brasil, Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia.... this movement has been going on for awhile.
While It is important for us to focus on our own problems in order to begin to solve them, we must also understand the context of those problems. The 1% is pushing austerity and economic restructuring where ever they can - especially now in North America and Europe. And while this manifests differently in each country, it is the root cause for much of present political theater at the national level.
Many Americans think that we are the best at everything.... because they are brainwashed and told so in school. That is another problem we need to change. Yet, when I mention that, so many people swear at me and tell me to leave the USA if I hate it so much. They just don't get it.
Why cant hey US government beogin to print its own money as Abraham Lincoln did with the greenbacks during his administration? All money is created out of debt and therefore all money is debt. If we can destroy the federal reserve and the IRS (both of which are illegal institutions which control us) I believe that will go a long way in freeing we the people from monetary tyranny! We will be slaves no longer!!!
Occupy Wall Street and Ron Paul are different but together they are the only hopes for the US and the World right now. Obama must go!
http://tariganter.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/end-the-fed-and-ron-paul-political-positions/
This has been simmering since the Supreme Court decided to spit on the voters and be the political kingmaker in "Bush v. Gore." The simmer turned to a boil when the same gang of 5 decided corporations get to use the money they siphon out of our economy to concentrate political power in the hands of the powerful even more, "Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission." This intemperate behavior is backfiring in the boil-over. Even middle class lawyers like me have had ENOUGH of this concentration of power and privilege sucking the rest of the country dry. But it's not against "the flag." "The flag" is all the rest of us, too. Wall Street and Fox News and their ilk do not own our country, which the flag symbolizes - WE ALL DO. Let's stay focussed on getting power back in the hands of the people. No participation in elections at ALL for corporations is one critical step. The second is to tax unearned income (i.e., corp. exec. "bonuses" etc.) the same as the rest of hard earned wages. These two steps are absolutely necessary to change anything. Let's focus on those as clear, achievable messages, otherwise we lose this beautiful momentum.
People here are all angry about one thing. Corporate Greed and its impact on the lives of billions here and in other countries. 99% of us suffer and struggle, as if we are an expendable mass, just so that 1% can live like Kings.
Its not about taking anything from anyone its about keeping everyone from taking what's mine.Its about fairness and justice. For decades laws have been passed for the sole purpose of benefiting business at my expense. The middle class created a wonderful society with culture, art, an educated workforce, we died in wars to protect it. Yet the elite lived in this society and did not pay there fair share, the took everything the could and gave nothing back.
A desperate man robbing a liquor may steal some money, may injure of kill one or more and will certainly go to jail for a very long time. But these white collar criminals are immune from paying the price for their crimes. They injured millions (a entire world economy in fact), destroyed an untold number of lives. People lost their jobs, their homes, their families, their identity and some lost their lives. But our politicians made this legal. In fact. it was rewarded, we gave them millions in bailout money. I want justice, decency, morality, accountibility and resposibility for the state of this country. We don't want jobs as maids, shoe shine boys and servants. Its our country and we deserve better.
Lobbying by Corporations should be Against the Law PERIOD. Anyone with an active political position that accepts lobbying should be removed and thrown into jail for life. Not the nice kind of jail, but =the bend you over kind of jail.
With a net worth of 43 Billion the Kochs have already spent decades of their lives and over 324 Million of their wealth exerting their influence. The Kochs accomplish their goals by funding a massive array of right wing front groups, think tanks and tea party efforts. They largely operate outside of the public eye, and target their funding to infiltrate public opinion, the media, judicial decisions and legislation. Over three dozen organizations are funded by the brothers, and they spend additional money lobbying and backing conservative candidates. Everything the Kochs do is to fight for a country free from protections and any degree of a social safety net for working Americans. You might recognize names of some of the organizations that the Koch brothers fund. Americans for Prosperity is their Tea Party effort. They fund the Cato Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Reason Foundation, the Institute for Justice, the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, the Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies, the American Legislative Exchange Council
Boycott Walmart!
Boycott the Koch Brothers
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Koch-Industries/114341768620561
Invista:
Right now, someone who earns $106,800 pays the same amount of money into Social Security as billionaires like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. That is because today, all income above $106,800 is exempt from the Social Security tax. As a result, 94% of Americans pay Social Security tax on all of their income, but the wealthiest 6% do not.
That's such bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Postal Service is not going bankrupt, the Postal Service has accumulated an overpayment into the federal pension system of between $50 and $75 billion from a bill republicans made law in 2006 that mandates funding pensions of employees not even born yet! They are trying to privatize the USPS for corporate fed ex to take over to milk the taxpayers
Yep!!!!! Most Americans are completely ignorant of how the USPS operates and don't know that it actually makes a huge profit and doesn't receive any tax money.... but with that Republican bill, it makes USPS lose money.
Goldman Sachs has people working in the White House to make the Government protects them before the people.
America must rise up. The World must rise up.
The revolution of the 99% has begun. Our history is being made. Our future is being made.
Undo the damage Fox News has done.
Source all your news and information from independent sources which are not owned by large corporations whose agenda is to make more money.
How can a news service owned by right wing capitalists possibly be critical of large corporations? It's simply not possible.
Murdoch is evil. Turn away from all he owns. Deny him his income. Boycott all Fox channels and Murdoch newspapers.
Do you now he gave up his citizenship to become American? People like him do not care where they are from. They do not respect borders and nations. But we all have to have visas and permits to work in different countries.
Today call on Congress to oppose flawed trade deals with Korea, Colombia and Panama. 25 million Americans are still searching for full-time jobs. Yet Congress is considering three new trade agreements built on the flawed models of the past that make CEOs richer and ship our jobs away… tell your members of Congress to stop these dangerous trade deals and start putting Americans back to work.
The following NY tax tables show in detail the New York state income tax rates by income tax bracket(s). There are 7 income tax brackets for New York.
In 1972, New York State had a personal income tax with 14 brackets, ranging from a low of 2% to a high of 15%.
Obamas' 2012 Re-election Finance Director is the son of BANK OF AMERICAS former CEO Charles K. Gifford.... the guy who got us in this mess!!! Keeping it all in the Family
Don't stop with Obama. Keep going. Look at every candidate and name their donors. Obama is bad but he's no different than any of the others.
I grew up in the 60s and let me tell you, you guys make my heart soar! Keep up the great work. The Revolution WILL be televised, and the whole world is watching.
I love it and so true - THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING. For those on the front lines, please keep that top of mind as others have mentioned, violence would be the movements undoing. Please remember in your physical manifestation you are representing so many there in spirit - the 99%. At the darkest hour of endurance, the ultimate truth of justice will prevail.
Ironically, it was the members of the counter-cultural revolution 43 years ago who stated that the revolution would not be televised. Now it's the mainstream banksters and their foot-soldiers with clubs trying to prevent the revolution from being televised.
And I agree, as a person who prayed for a long time for revolution to set things straight, I am filled with both hope and sadness. To watch younger brothers and sisters taking lumps from the Oligarchs' thugs causes me anger, but the fact that those who seek change, also do so with greater grace and class than many might, causes admiration of the commitment to non-violence. Many of you are better persons than myself in so many ways.Many of you are truly the Best of Us..
I know that to respond to such violence with violence would be the death knell that justifies greater use of force by the Oligarchs' thuggery, and thus, I can arrest my own anger's propensities at the images we view daily..
We are in Alaska, but we are headed to Wall St. if we can make it.
No, I don't think the solidarity represented by actions in the satellite Sister Movements is the same. I think Wall St. is the pulse. Wall St. is the Head-Waters of this. It is where the Corrupt Buyers of My Government and Its Processes interfered in our Country's Voice by spawning their illegitimate control. That makes it mandatory, in my view, that We go straight to Wall St.
If we can make it, we will see you all there.
Bless you all.. May we settle our own fears, and face change with calm and a sense of seeking justice.
Do you want Blackwater deployed on the streets of this country? The executive order to deploy private militias at the discretion of the President is one of the executive orders signed into law. They now call themselves United States Technical Services. Remember Kent State and that woman who was shot? That's nothing, those images from New Orleans after Katrina is what it would be like with private militias on our streets. But there is worse than that and that is sending people to Fema camps, the 800 internment, "civilian work camps" set up for widespread insurrection. They are updated concentration camps with barb wire facing inwards, train tracks to bring bodies in and out of the camps, etc. They were built (by the helpful hands of Halliburton) to deal with an influx of refugees or immgrants crossing our borders, that was the excuse. They are modern day concentration camps for those who will oppose the NWO, when the revolution comes and they try to restore order to the US.
Hit the banks where it hurts the most and thats with your accounts. If you have an account at BofA, CHASE, WELLS FARGO, GOLDMAN SACHS, or any other large bank than we need to organize a day in which we all go to these banks and withdrawl are money and close our accounts. A run on the banks as they call it will bring them down. If they don't have our money they won't be in business.
Put your money in credit unions. Its pretty simple. Better interest rates. You own your own profits etc....
The only way to hurt the banks however is to pay off your loans early and not take any more loans from them. Only borrow from your credit union.
Hi! I'm Bayo from Nigeria, and I have observed with much interest the growing disenchantment with the consumerist culture that perpetuates the power of a few over many - which is now captured Occupy Wallstreet.
Two things excite me about OWS: the lack of some 'visionary' leader at the front of the protests, and the absence of a neat set of 'demands'. I think this speaks of the protest's remarkable spontaneity and the deep meaning it holds for every person on the streets. I look forward to what this will lead to, however I'd like to warn against this becoming one more tyranny replacing an old one. Perhaps deeply reflexive circles of conversations could be encouraged for people to think about their stories of struggle, what they'd like to see, and why they are doing this. The capitalist structure has had years of 'growth', and will not fall easy. The questions we should be asking now are: What other forms of economies can we begin to build? How does the dismantling of major globalist and corporatist structures enable more horizontal spaces to evolve? What are we looking forward to?
Having said this, I am moved by the courage, vulnerability and deep humanity of the protesters. When we get to the precipice, we change. Make your voice heard...and like Truman Burbank, we will find that if we strike well enough, the sky will bleed.
Great post. I am an American working in India and can't help to be captured by the movement as well even from such a distance. It is ironic, I studied political science (with a second degree on environmental management), but just grew so disgusted (and completely disinterested) with the party politics and bitter divisive diving Congress and driving our beautiful country into the ground. But now, this legitimate peoples movement, born out of being truly fed up and desperate I'd say in many cases, is the best hope we have. I don't think it is coincidence or even contagion that we are seeing global protest movements, even here in India we have recently had people say is an unprecedented scale of peacefil protest movements to fight corruption (i.e. Anne Hazare and Ramdev). I hope there is a broader tipping point we are collectively creating that responds to commonalities of frustration with inequality and a sense that the rules of the game are skewed. I find it particularly encouraging, like a wind on a fire, to hear the stories from others around the world. And yet, as an American, I want to see our country back to a leadership position, and leading on these most pivotal social, political, and governance issues of the day. What type of planet and society do we want to live in? The future is not a script for the past. Every day is a new opportunity. Yes, we need to learn from the past, but also bring the best minds and hearts together to revision our future.
I any group in this occupation really wants to ripple wall street, start spraying names of CEO's, individuals and groups who are making millions per day in the derivatives and hedge fund markets over the web...maybe include the addresses of a few of of those 500 million dollar homes they hide so well.
This President is in bed with Wall Street. Wall Street money funded his election and now his actions do not match his deeds. Time for another change.
USA always got lot of leadership. You prove it with all of this.
I want to give you some advise. In the case of spain we got police infliltrators inside the riot's. They just act violently and then this few violent acts plus some shameless manipulation (like putting in the middle image from another country and from another time) were amplified by the media to make people to drop some support from the protestors. I don't know if this could happends in your case but i warm you to keep the non violence and the image that makes feel people to see you as paceful as possible and that you are fighting by something right. The support of the people is vital. The people that we are fighting are very powerful and they know it. In my opinion the real fight will be in the media in to teach to the people what are you doing and why they should join you.
Cheers. You are the hope of the humankind. Many people around the world are with you.
Joe Biden is in town today, someplace downtown, might a little impromptu opposition be raised, what has he done for 99 per cent?
Anti-Flag? I get it but why don't you consider adopting your OWN FLAG or symbol? here's my idea:
I'm in London, been speaking to the occupy people here. I've worked for a decade in the field of social justice/wellbeing. Seems to me that although there are many voices here, there's a common thread that links all protesters: whether it's justice, greed, the economy, jobs, pay, the future... what this is really about is how we treat each other (& the world we share).
Remember the Peace Sign, & how by capturing the zeitgeist it attracted millions of followers in the 70s? Why don't we adopt a new symbol that captures today's zeitgeist that acts like a sort of umbrella for all our views?
This would give the current amorphous, multi-celled mass enough identity to bring some cohesion and more impact. But like the symbiotic jellyfish, you can hack it into pieces and it will survive... so they can't take it down and there's an underlying purpose and methodology that they can't dispute.
What's that identity? It's summed up in the phrase "I care about mankind and the world our children will inherit." And the underlying methodology is wellbeing-focused - because we all deserve wellbeing and improving wellbeing has tremendous social, economic and political consequences.
Not trying to sell anyone anything - just seems to me the 99% lack a uniting symbol so please come back to me with your comments. The symbol I propose is called the tocamu (see tocamu.com) and you can read/copy & paste a one page sheet to your friends if you want to (click to enlarge to readable size): http://www.tocamu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Unite-Letter.png
Wouldn't it make sense if this army marched under one flag?
Herman Cain wants to tax the poor, increase taxes on the middle class and give massive tax cuts to the rich with his 9-9-9 plan.
Don't let this man get elected!!!
OUTLAW MONSANTO - tear down those walls, or we are all slaves
I'd like to start by saying I'm an employee of the big banks, 30, student loans out the wazoo, etc. We're all frustrated, we all want to get ahead and pursue our dreams, that's what makes us human. But this wealth re-distribution thing? Ok you take all the 1%'s money, redistribute it, boom problem solved right? Hey guys, it's still Capitalism, the 1% who was smart enough to get to be the 1% will get back to that point, while a certain percentage of our society will then again fall behind because they're flawed as people. That cycle could repeat itself over and over if you wanted it to. So lets say we oust the 1% entirely! Ok so now part of the 99% moves up to the 1% to occupy their previous positions, and I'll be damned, the cycle's repeating itself again. I hate to sound cynical, but you're not going to protest your way into "the good life." You're going to have to work your ass off, plan accordingly, live below your means, and hope for the best, just like the 1% already has. Sorry folks but that's how the world works. The 99% is unfit to rule themselves (as evidenced by the streams of pointless rhetoric on this site) so there you have the 1%. It's call the Iron Law of Oligarchy, and I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but that's life. People have all the excuses in the world for why their own house of cards crumble at the same time of being masters of deflection on why it's someone else's fault. Sure it's easier to point the finger, but looking in the mirror takes someone far stronger. Put away the bongos and wake up to the real world
I'd like to start by saying I'm an employee of the big banks, 30, student loans out the wazoo, etc. We're all frustrated, we all want to get ahead and pursue our dreams, that's what makes us human. But this wealth re-distribution thing? Ok you take all the 1%'s money, redistribute it, boom problem solved right? Hey guys, it's still Capitalism, the 1% who was smart enough to get to be the 1% will get back to that point, while a certain percentage of our society will then again fall behind because they're flawed as people. That cycle could repeat itself over and over if you wanted it to. So lets say we oust the 1% entirely! Ok so now part of the 99% moves up to the 1% to occupy their previous positions, and I'll be damned, the cycle's repeating itself again. I hate to sound cynical, but you're not going to protest your way into "the good life." You're going to have to work your ass off, plan accordingly, live below your means, and hope for the best, just like the 1% already has. Sorry folks but that's how the world works. The 99% is unfit to rule themselves (as evidenced by the streams of pointless rhetoric on this site) so there you have the 1%. It's call the Iron Law of Oligarchy, and I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but that's life. People have all the excuses in the world for why their own house of cards crumble at the same time of being masters of deflection on why it's someone else's fault. Sure it's easier to point the finger, but looking in the mirror takes someone far stronger. Put away the bongos and wake up to the real world
I'd like to start by saying I'm an employee of the big banks, 30, student loans out the wazoo, etc. We're all frustrated, we all want to get ahead and pursue our dreams, that's what makes us human. But this wealth re-distribution thing? Ok you take all the 1%'s money, redistribute it, boom problem solved right? Hey guys, it's still Capitalism, the 1% who was smart enough to get to be the 1% will get back to that point, while a certain percentage of our society will then again fall behind because they're flawed as people. That cycle could repeat itself over and over if you wanted it to. So lets say we oust the 1% entirely! Ok so now part of the 99% moves up to the 1% to occupy their previous positions, and I'll be damned, the cycle's repeating itself again. I hate to sound cynical, but you're not going to protest your way into "the good life." You're going to have to work your ass off, plan accordingly, live below your means, and hope for the best, just like the 1% already has. Sorry folks but that's how the world works. The 99% is unfit to rule themselves (as evidenced by the streams of pointless rhetoric on this site) so there you have the 1%. It's call the Iron Law of Oligarchy, and I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but that's life. People have all the excuses in the world for why their own house of cards crumble at the same time of being masters of deflection on why it's someone else's fault. Sure it's easier to point the finger, but looking in the mirror takes someone far stronger. Put away the bongos and wake up to the real world
I'd like to start by saying I'm an employee of the big banks, 30, student loans out the wazoo, etc. We're all frustrated, we all want to get ahead and pursue our dreams, that's what makes us human. But this wealth re-distribution thing? Ok you take all the 1%'s money, redistribute it, boom problem solved right? Hey guys, it's still Capitalism, the 1% who was smart enough to get to be the 1% will get back to that point, while a certain percentage of our society will then again fall behind because they're flawed as people. That cycle could repeat itself over and over if you wanted it to. So lets say we oust the 1% entirely! Ok so now part of the 99% moves up to the 1% to occupy their previous positions, and I'll be damned, the cycle's repeating itself again. I hate to sound cynical, but you're not going to protest your way into "the good life." You're going to have to work your ass off, plan accordingly, live below your means, and hope for the best, just like the 1% already has. Sorry folks but that's how the world works. The 99% is unfit to rule themselves (as evidenced by the streams of pointless rhetoric on this site) so there you have the 1%. It's call the Iron Law of Oligarchy, and I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but that's life. People have all the excuses in the world for why their own house of cards crumble at the same time of being masters of deflection on why it's someone else's fault. Sure it's easier to point the finger, but looking in the mirror takes someone far stronger. Put away the bongos and wake up to the real world
More fundamentally, there is a selfish assumption at the core of the demand. These self-proclaimed 99 percenters are themselves mostly in the top one percent world-wide in terms of wealth and economic opportunities. The protesting youthful global 1 percenters feel entitled to suck other peoples’ money into paying for their college education rather than reaching out to help meet the far more critical humanitarian needs of the global 99 percenters, such as working towards alleviation of hunger and disease in the poorest regions of the world. That is narcissism in action.
How about we see more entrepreneurs like the late icon of the technology world, Steve Jobs, who dropped out of college because he said it was consuming all of his parents’ savings. He didn’t whine or ask for hand-outs. Instead, he exemplified the best of America’s self-reliant, entrepreneurial spirit and went on to do great things.
Another of the more popular demands of the Occupy Wall Street crowd appears to be something along the lines of a guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment. What exactly does this mean? Who defines what a living wage is? Who is paying for the guarantee? Are the self-proclaimed 99 percenters saying that 99 percent of the American people are not making a living wage? More likely, they are simply demanding yet another government entitlement that is intended to punish success and reward slackers.
Then there are some of the more prominent supporters who are supposed to provide legitimacy to the movement. These include the requisite Hollywood celebrities such as Russell Simmons, Roseanne Barr, Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon, whose millions place them in the top tier of the 1 percent.
There are also some labor unions, mostly representing government workers whose fat pensions far exceed virtually anything available in the private sector and are bleeding taxpayers dry who are living in the 99 percent category. Meanwhile, the leaders of these unions are mostly 1 percenters.
Finally, there are the professional year-around protesters like Jodie Evans, the co-founder of the far-left Code Pink. In January 2010, Evans and Code Pink asked the Muslim Brotherhood to “join us in cleansing our country!” In December 2009, Evans and Code Pink led more than 1,000 leftists, among whom were Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, to Cairo in order to deliver “humanitarian aid” to the terrorist Hamas-led government of Gaza.
While there may be some well-meaning idealists amongst the Occupy Wall Street protesters, they are dwarfed by the 99 percent narcissists and the manipulating union and radical leaders who are exploiting the youthful protest for their own ulterior motives.
More fundamentally, there is a selfish assumption at the core of the demand. These self-proclaimed 99 percenters are themselves mostly in the top one percent world-wide in terms of wealth and economic opportunities. The protesting youthful global 1 percenters feel entitled to suck other peoples’ money into paying for their college education rather than reaching out to help meet the far more critical humanitarian needs of the global 99 percenters, such as working towards alleviation of hunger and disease in the poorest regions of the world. That is narcissism in action.
How about we see more entrepreneurs like the late icon of the technology world, Steve Jobs, who dropped out of college because he said it was consuming all of his parents’ savings. He didn’t whine or ask for hand-outs. Instead, he exemplified the best of America’s self-reliant, entrepreneurial spirit and went on to do great things.
Another of the more popular demands of the Occupy Wall Street crowd appears to be something along the lines of a guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment. What exactly does this mean? Who defines what a living wage is? Who is paying for the guarantee? Are the self-proclaimed 99 percenters saying that 99 percent of the American people are not making a living wage? More likely, they are simply demanding yet another government entitlement that is intended to punish success and reward slackers.
Then there are some of the more prominent supporters who are supposed to provide legitimacy to the movement. These include the requisite Hollywood celebrities such as Russell Simmons, Roseanne Barr, Michael Moore and Susan Sarandon, whose millions place them in the top tier of the 1 percent.
There are also some labor unions, mostly representing government workers whose fat pensions far exceed virtually anything available in the private sector and are bleeding taxpayers dry who are living in the 99 percent category. Meanwhile, the leaders of these unions are mostly 1 percenters.
Finally, there are the professional year-around protesters like Jodie Evans, the co-founder of the far-left Code Pink. In January 2010, Evans and Code Pink asked the Muslim Brotherhood to “join us in cleansing our country!” In December 2009, Evans and Code Pink led more than 1,000 leftists, among whom were Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, to Cairo in order to deliver “humanitarian aid” to the terrorist Hamas-led government of Gaza.
While there may be some well-meaning idealists amongst the Occupy Wall Street protesters, they are dwarfed by the 99 percent narcissists and the manipulating union and radical leaders who are exploiting the youthful protest for their own ulterior motives.
A reflection on current leadership
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVVhLkjgY6k&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
I know one way to get attention. If Occupy WallStreet protests outside of LawMakers, Republican Senators and Congressmens, houses for millionaires and billionaires to pay their fair share in taxes. Maybe then, LawMakers will take the movement seriously and express some concern.
I know one way to get attention. If Occupy WallStreet protests outside of LawMakers, Republican Senators and Congressmens, houses for millionaires and billionaires to pay their fair share in taxes. Maybe then, LawMakers will take the movement seriously and express some concern.
Politicians & Economists: Capitalism sucks. Red China works. Please explain
To anyone willing, Littera Report is seeking citizen journalists to cover the Occupy movement across the United States! http://gobb.us/p19
I believe what occupy Wallstreet is doing is good for this country, but if we plan on making a big impact on the country we need to become united with the rest of the protestors across the country and get organized as a whole, being in dozens of cities is great, but all the cities arent protesting over the same issues at hand, in order for the message to get across we have to become one, and fight for the Same reasons. Individual protests are useless unless it's met with organization and a committee that can make decision for the protestors to follow and demonstrate. If we want to get our points across we must have unity.
stand tall and proud for god the father is with you we will overcome this dirty corrupted government we send our love to all of you
stand tall and proud for god the father is with you we will overcome this dirty corrupted government we send our loveto all of you
stand tall and proud for god the father is with you we will overcome this dirty corrupted government we send our love
stand tall and proud for god the father is with you we will overcome this dirty corrupted government we send our love
A slogan for the 99%:
"Obama, break up the banks"
A slogan for the 99%:
"Obama, break up the banks"
You should advertise signs saying:
This Is Economics 101
Karl Marx Theory About A Breakdown Capitalism
NO ON TOO Much Adam Smith Over Invisible Hand, Capitalism Greed, and Government Putting Too Much Interest on the Rich
Growing up, most of us were taught that if we wanted to change things in America, we could do it at the ballot box. Well, today large numbers of Americans are realizing that both major political parties have been bought and paid for. http://youtu.be/p3Ven1km2y4
Ask yourselves, who do you owe the national debt to? After throwing the money lenders out, Jesus was crucified.
The pope and the king, though having their own problems, recognized the danger of a powerful international bank, wanted to take it over, and ordered the Knights Templar killed, on Friday the 13th.
After printing the greenback Lincoln was shot.
After an (unsuccessful) assassination attempt on President Jackson's life, Jackson told his vice president, Martin Van Buren, "The bank, Mr. Van Buren, is trying to kill me"
After signing Executive Order 11110 Kennedy was assasinated.
The "debt" you owe for which you must increase taxes to pay is to the Federal Reserve and the International banks. And when you don't pay, they lower your credit rating and raise your interest rates.
There will be more
Diogenes The 99 h t t p : / / d i o g e n e s t h e 9 9 . b l o g s p o t . c o m /
Growing up, most of us were taught that if we wanted to change things in America, we could do it at the ballot box. Well, today large numbers of Americans are realizing that both major political parties have been bought and paid for. http://youtu.be/p3Ven1km2y4
it's world wide rule,1% people control 99% people。no one can change it.
it's world wide rule,1% people control 99% people。no one can change it.
your all a bunch of unemployed commie bastard go livein china you morons
your all a bunch of unemployed commie bastard go livein china you morons
Please note that this is a strong way forward to get to the true root of the OWS issues along with Occupy the Fed, Pentagon, WH, etc....
http://cafr1.com/ProtestWallStreet.html
I watched the doc "Waiting for Superman" last night. From seeing that and getting a little insight into what has happened with public education in the USA to everything else, we need BIG CHANGE all across the board. How did we go from being at the top in the world in education down to 20-something to 30-something in everything?
I'm not a fan of corporations owning things that have nothing to do with their companies, but a few charter schools out there (mostly the Kipp charter schools) have the successful programs to keep kids in school and learning (while getting good grades and high test scores) and graduating and going to college and becoming successful (especially poor inner-city kids who are at high risk of dropping out of school and committing crimes).
How can we change anything if we have high dropout rates among our kids, the majority of those kids committing crimes in adulthood or before adulthood, kids not going to college, kids just floating through life being lost and unmotivated and unhappy? 60% of the people in prison/jail are high school dropouts. The percentage of inner-city kids who dropout, end up in prison, or who end up dying young is astounding.
Something NEEDS to be done about that. Finland has the highest level of educated people in the world. We need to take a look at what its schools are doing to be successful.
Education is the key for everything else.
If we are going to be serious and want change, we need to make it happen. How do you hurt a rich guy or big bank or corporation. You take away their money. The only way to take these people down and make them hear us is for every citizen to pull all their money out of the banks, stop buying things like gas and cars for one day and call their brokers and 401K managers and threaten to close their accounts completely if Washington and the system doesn't change and change now. I think just emptying your bank accounts would be enough to show Wall Street and Washington we mean business and that America is ours and not the corporations. Bank of America got billions and now says it needs to charge for every little thing for the privilege of having depositors money to use as they see fit and not pay interest to us for depositin g it with them. Empty the vaults and I think Wall Street and Washington will get the picture.
If we are going to be serious and want change, we need to make it happen. How do you hurt a rich guy or big bank or corporation. You take away their money. The only way to take these people down and make them hear us is for every citizen to pull all their money out of the banks, stop buying things like gas and cars for one day and call their brokers and 401K managers and threaten to close their accounts completely if Washington and the system doesn't change and change now. I think just emptying your bank accounts would be enough to show Wall Street and Washington we mean business and that America is ours and not the corporations. Bank of America got billions and now says it needs to charge for every little thing for the privilege of having depositors money to use as they see fit and not pay interest to us for depositin g it with them. Empty the vaults and I think Wall Street and Washington will get the picture.
The issues are easy to understand and simple to fix if politicians have the will to fix it. We as a nation are heading towards becoming an Oligarch; a nation controlled by a handful of corporations that are controlling "our" government leaders to further consolidate the power of the Oligarch.
If the occupation of Wall Street is going to have any impact on bringing about change it needs to promote and take on the challenge of amending our constitution outlawing political contributions from both labor and corporations.
This is the change that is needed. More: http://bit.ly/oOvp7z
Media hacks do not reckon with the power of the web. In the UK we had non stop live coverage of the protests in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya. But the US?.....Nothing, nada, zip. I support and applaud your protest.
I wanted to share this with the group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcePaR1LSVA
Enjoy.
Don't turn off the moderates, we represent a large portion of that 99%
They call us radicals, they call us socialist well you know what if it is radical wanting clean air and clean water I, the individual will carry that moniker!!! If being a socialist means wanting affordable healthcare for all, I, the individual will carry that moniker also!!!!!
The say we want something for nothing, they say we want to take what people earned illegally, i say this to those people. Now we don’t want what you earned legally, and we don’t want something for nothing. But what we do want to take is what you illegally stole, what you took by manipulating people. What we want is our future, our American dream, in which you illegally stole, which you cynically took from all of us. That’s what we want.
Ditto!!
They call us radicals, they call us socialist well you know what if it is radical wanting clean air and clean water I, the individual will carry that moniker!!! If being a socialist means wanting affordable healthcare for all, I, the individual will carry that moniker also!!!!!
The say we want something for nothing, they say we want to take what people earned illegally, i say this to those people. Now we don’t want what you earned legally, and we don’t want something for nothing. But what we do want to take is what you illegally stole, what you took by manipulating people. What we want is our future, our American dream, in which you illegally stole, which you cynically took from all of us. That’s what we want.
Really anti-Flag, couldn't we have gone with a positive, patriotic pro reforming band! Come on, I thought we were against negativity, don't make the coup look stupid!!!
Yahoo is now censoring this site from its comments and Y!A boards. It has also censored wearethe99percent. We must be starting to have an effect on corps. They are struggling between reporting it to try to keep the cover of being legit news sources and censoring it because it hurts their handlers.
Lets keep this rolling. I am putting the word out and explaining what the 99% is to everyone. Get the word out. Lets unite and take our country back.
For god's sake, at the next General Assembly elect an executive committee to get the permits for toilets, water and sanitation.
people across this country are so angry and frustrated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqLMjYT3b4w
Get a job you asswipes!!
Get a job you asswipes!!
One of the oldest ways by which people have fallen into slavery has been through indebtedness that they have been unable to pay off . The debt of the U.S.A IS THE GREATEST THAT HAS EXISTED IN THE HISTORY OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION and is impossible to pay off , which means that they now have become slaves to the debt holders of the world financial system . 14 trillion dollars public debt + responsibilities through Fanny May and Freddy Mack cannot be repaied .
Social correction and adjustments have long been overdue in the U.S A which has become a monopolized state that has used its citizens as consumers pawn in a political game which has trapped them in perpetual indebtedness , enslaved them .
Social correction and adjustments have long been overdue in the U.S A which has become a monopolized state that has used its citizens as consumers pawn in a political game which has trapped them in perpetual indebtedness , enslaved them .
Social correction and adjustments have long been overdue in the U.S A which has become a monopolized state that has used its citizens as consumers pawn in a political game which has trapped them in perpetual indebtedness , enslaved them .
Social correction and adjustments have long been overdue in the U.S A which has become a monopolized state that has used its citizens as consumers pawn in a political game which has trapped them in perpetual indebtedness , enslaved them .
Why do some entries have edit and delete while others don't?
One of the oldest ways by which people have fallen into slavery has been through indebtedness that they have been unable to pay off . The debt of the U.S.A IS THE GREATEST THAT HAS EXISTED IN THE HISTORY OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION and is impossible to pay off , which means that they now have become slaves to the debt holders of the world financial system . 14 trillion dollars public debt + responsibilities through Fanny May and Freddy Mack cannot be repaied .
How about a third-party candidate? Anyone in mind? Nader is probably sick of the effort
http://www.collapsenet.com/affiliate/idevaffiliate.php?id=154&url=980
I have been waiting for this. I did not think it would happen in my lifetime( and I am only 33). I have been waiting for the day when people would get fed up and start ignoring the propaganda and say," You know what I have had enough, it is time for a real change." Thomas Jefferson knew something like this might happen. That if we let private banks and corporations have their way our children would wake up homeless on the continent that our forefathers conquered. "We the people" has become meaningless over the years. I see politicians that cannot even tell the Declaration of Independence from the Constitution. I see politicians that run on platforms that are blatantly violate the Bill of Rights. I see politicians that not only do not care about the people they are suppose to serve but lacks basic knowledge about how their own government is suppose to work. I see corporate greed everywhere. I am being raped with fees, interest, penalties, etc. I am trying to survive almost nearly resorting to hunting and fishing for my own food while CEOs are getting money handed to them hand over fist for bad business practices. I see my money go to wars, bailouts,and gifted to the rich while public services are cut. For a time during the summer, they didn't even cut the grass along the highways. Just around the junctions. Roads that are so full of holes its almost safer to drive in the ditch. Our country and the world are in sad shape and you can trace it all back to greedy businessmen who take take take and never give.
It is time to take out country back. It it time for the 99% of the world to stand up and say " We have had enough" It is time to refresh the tree of liberty. These politicians and their handlers should be in prison for treason. It is time to make this country into the country that our forefathers gave us. United we stand against the tyranny and greed of the corporate world. It is time for them to fear the people, instead of the people fear them.
This is what our founders think about all this corruption.
That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness
DEMOCRACY is not Voter Suppression.In 25 states they have created laws that have the potential of limiting 5 million people their right to vote,Requiring people to get a state issued id issued by motor vehicle bureaus, many which are in rural states would require people to travel far distances ,This attempt to suppress the vote will mostly affect the poor,elderly and students.They claim these laws were passed to prevent voter fraud which does not really exist Our right to vote is the most important part of our Democracy.Thais is Not Democracy
The right wing is doing this so that the people who've historically voted for Democrats can't vote.
You all need to be shot in the head. Get the fuck out of D.C.. There's people that actually have jobs and need to get to them. So get off your asses and do something with your damn lives!
dear white anarchists: check your privilege please
http://rdacbx.blogspot.com/2011/09/reflections-on-occupywallstreet.html
http://pdfcast.org/pdf/decolonizewallstreet
http://pococcupywallstreet.tumblr.com/
http://www.racialicious.com/2011/10/05/an-open-letter-from-two-white-men-to-occupywallstreet/
here ye here ye, you are educated of our past and present and how it keeps repeating itself. I/we are the rest of us and we are part of the 99%! When we no longer have cyber communication of what is happening we will join you across the nation until then we will support you sending messages daily, sending packages weekly and monthly food clothing and if must greenbacks. But if the oppressors of freedom terrorists Corporations find a way to block electronic communication live streaming we will come and join you in the streets. "we are the 99% and we are TOO big TOO fail!
Join or Die
I support #ows, I support the efforts to end Wall Street Financial Terrorism, I support the efforts to end the conservative class warfare strategy that favors the rich against the poor, I support the efforts to overcome in solidarity the corruption and abuse of power by elected and non-elected leaders, I support the end of financial terrorism that benefits the few at the expense of the many. We stand in solidarity, in the same Spirit we go forward, to victory! And Justice For All, not just the few; All are created equal, not just the rich and powerful; All have a right to life, liberty, and happiness, not just the rich. Revolution to victory! Keep the faith and Lord bless you all.
So let me get this right... We taxpayers bailout the Wall Streeters to the tune of $ 1 trillion bucks and for that we get what? Ignored??? Lets take back what is ours! We just witnessed the biggest redistribution of wealth in the history of mankind. Protests like this may be our only recourse since our politicians are all but corrupt puppets...
we can have our own currency backed by gold and we can control the 1 percent by what we do and do not purchase.
I agree we can not fail as the 99 percent!!!!
we can have our own currency backed by gold and we can control the 1 percent by what we do and do not purchase. They like us to think that we are dependent on them, when in reality , they are dependent on us!!!! They do not exist if we do not buy their product. . I am really glad America and the people of the world woke up Now we will see change for the good instead of for the greed! I fear for the new generations if we do not change. I am the 99 percent
we can have our own currency backed by gold and we can control the 1 percent by what we do and do not purchase.
I agree we can not fail as the 99 percent!!!!
we can have our own currency backed by gold and we can control the 1 percent by what we do and do not purchase. They like us to think that we are dependent on them, when in reality , they are dependent on us!!!! They do not exist if we do not buy their product. . I am really glad America and the people of the world woke up Now we will see change for the good instead of for the greed! I fear for the new generations if we do not change. I am the 99 percent
http://occupywallst.org/forum/when-the-democrats-start-knocking-on-our-door/
We need to empower the people. Right now J-O-B means just over broke. You work, you are just over broke. That needs to change. We need jobs, but we also need to change the Minimum Wage to reflect what the actual minimum is in different parts of the country. We need employers to pay a LIVING WAGE, whereby nobody has to pay more than 30% of their income for housing, and we need landlords to stop forcing people to pay rents that are not fair market rents.
Go to the ULW: State City tab on the left, scroll down that page, click on your state and see what the minimum wage needed to afford a studio (listed as 0 Bedroom) and 1 Bedroom apt. is, in NYC it is $24.25 per hour. How many jobs pay that? People cannot make it anymore, millions of people get laid off, can't find work, and lose everything they have. The minimum wage in NY State is $7.25 per hour. A person would have to work 4 jobs or 28 hours a day to be able to afford a place to live. The minimum wage has to be higher in different places, and employers have to start paying living wages.
This is something that COULD be done. It must be done, or more people who lose their jobs will become homeless, foreclosures will continue, the tax base declines, no money to fund even essential services like cops, firefighters, teachers.
Yes!!!!
http://universallivingwage.org/
Poverty wipes away all political ideology.
This is my response to all the ideologues attempting to co-opt the Occupy Wall st. movement for the 2012 elections.
What about the resource based economy? Does anyone really know how it works and why it needs to happen?
Kao, what naive ppl! Wall street and main street are the same street. Corruption has been legitimated in USA for long time.
Kao, what naive ppl! Bush and Clinton are the same family. Clinton after Bush, Bush after Clinton, Clinton after Bush again.
Kao, what a joke! There are always two options given to naive ppl. And then ppl have considered the country is their's.
If you want true equality between cooperate America and the Ninety-niners we should start with having an equal voice. This can only be achieved through passing a lobbing law that will limit any and all total contributions by one person or entity to $5000. This is the only way you can level the playing field. Other than focusing on this one crucial point, your efforts while most admirable will in the end prove to be futile.
Goals:
Influence share holders to divest in corporations that pay CEOs and senior executives more than 100 times their lowest paid worker.
Influence all Americans to close accounts at major banks and join credit unions.
Pass Fair Trade Laws to replace Free Trade laws.
Force Congress to pass term limit legislation, three terms for the House and two terms for the Senate, no more career politicians.
Force Congress to make corporate campaign contributions illegal, only citizens can contribute up to $100 per candidate.
Pass the Employee Free Choice Act.
FINALLY...Now what? Once you're done with your whining and walking around you have to take ACTION. The only way to make change is through the voting booth and bad things have happened in many states to keep seniors, inner city blacks, rural voters and more from voting. If you ignore that, if you keep talking to hear each other talk, if you don't look beyond the 'walls' of Wall Street you will accomplish nothing! It's not just you that need the jobs! It's not just jobs this country needs.. AN EVIL HAS INVADED THE HEART AND MIND OF THIS COUNTRY. Your time has come, you have been called together for more, you have a purpose beyond what you see....it's all one big puzzle that can't be fixed by just looking at one piece. REACH OUT TO THIS WHOLE HURTING COUNTRY AND ANSWER ITS CALL we're real proud of you, we've been waiting.......don't ignore us, WE'VE PASSED YOU THE TORCH.....Grown strong, be brothers and sisters, think past yourselves........you will leave a legacy as we did and it will fill your hearts forever!!!
FINALLY...Now what? Once you're done with your whining and walking around you have to take ACTION. The only way to make change is through the voting booth and bad things have happened in many states to keep seniors, inner city blacks, rural voters and more from voting. If you ignore that, if you keep talking to hear each other talk, if you don't look beyond the 'walls' of Wall Street you will accomplish nothing! It's not just you that need the jobs! It's not just jobs this country needs.. AN EVIL HAS INVADED THE HEART AND MIND OF THIS COUNTRY. Your time has come, you have been called together for more, you have a purpose beyond what you see....it's all one big puzzle that can't be fixed by just looking at one piece. REACH OUT TO THIS WHOLE HURTING COUNTRY AND ANSWER ITS CALL we're real proud of you, we've been waiting.......don't ignore us, WE'VE PASSED YOU THE TORCH.....Grown strong, be brothers and sisters, think past yourselves........you will leave a legacy as we did and it will fill your hearts forever!!!
Marching is completely ineffective in increasing the equity of working people in our world. The only effective action is to shut down the apparatus of state and business until effective negotiations occur and greater equity for working people is achieved.
Your attention please! I think I have a solution that might satisfy everybody involved in OWS:
1) Nationalize all businesses. Put them under government control, to make sure that they don’t make too much money or exert too much influence. Remove all incentives for striving and excelling.
2) Identify private citizens who hold excessive wealth. Seize their wealth under government control, and re-distribute it in a fair and equitable manner. Make everybody equally wealthy, because all people truly are equal, aren’t they?
3) Celebrate the new proletariat. Raise the hammer and sickle on all flag poles. Anybody who expresses dissent or dissatisfaction will be removed, because it is the will of the 99%.
Uh wait...I think I've seen this plan somewhere before.
There was a story in London 2 weeks ago (26 Sept,11) that is VERY apropos, and, it didn't get much play here, but it SHOULD'VE.
BBC had a trader on the financial segment of the news, named Alessio Rastani. The presenter wanted Mr. Rastani to comment on the Euro's problems, and the planned bailout there. Instead - and I'll keep this as brief as I can - Mr. Rastani said (amongst other things); '...the governments don't rule the world - GoldmanSachs rules the world.' That's a real quote. The presenter said 'you won't believe how many jaws just dropped' (in response to Mr. Rastani's comments.
At first, it was believed that Mr. Rastani was a plant - a hoaxer from The YesMen. He's not - he's VERY real.
The whole 3minute piece is on YouTube at:youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?feature=mhee&v=lqN3amj6AcE
Watch this, and THEN you'll see how really frakked everything is.
Keep up the Good Work.
The biggest players in the charter school movement – the Walton Family of Wal-Mart fame, Bill Gates, Eli Broad, New York City Mayor Bloomberg and his appointed school chancellor Joel Klein – are all on record as being anti-union. The Walton family’s hiring practices at Wal-Mart are infamous for creating precisely the class of working poor. Wal-Martization' of education, and a move to for-profit schooling, from which the family could potentially financially benefit
I did respond to what I thought were some answers, but I just want to mention one more thing, and I will stay silent. If 99% of the American people want represented, we need a political party, you can call it the American People's Party. Try and get a national voter registration going, and start the party. Who knows we may take over both the Senate and the House.
Wal-Mart is a notorious union-busting firm, famous for keeping its health-care costs down by discouraging unhealthy people from working at its stores, paying extremely low wages with poor benefits, and violating child labor laws. The company has reportedly looted more than $1 billion in economic development subsidies from state and local governments.
Its so-called philanthropy seems also to be geared to the looting of public treasuries.
What I learned from the Revolution this week To: All those angry persons who are occupying space, Lighten up! Why are you trying to scare the children with your clenched fists and violent rhetoric? We are here for each other, not to spread the Hate. If you need to vent, think me an insult, better yet, call me something creative but please make it funny so everyone else can share in the fun. I have always found in my experience that the revolutions with the best jokes are much more fun than the ones with the menacing slogans. Some other ways to enjoy the revolt: Join the revenge through boycotting the products of companies who would choose to be socially and financially irresponsible. Follow the children’s lead to look for and support political candidates that are not beholding to special interests. If you cannot occupy the Wall streets physically, we will meet up with you in your mind. (I promise, you do not even have to take a shower or brush your teeth if you choose not to.) Remember you are only afraid, if they tell you to be and since I am not afraid of you, neither should you be afraid of me. Finally, remember that we are the 99% majority that occupies this world.
Have another great week at the Revolution wherever you are. See you next week! Love, Miss K.
Do you want jobs, then buy only Made In USA products. No outsourcing.
We can't even get grown in America produce here. Everything is from Mexico or some other place. The only thing we can get is strawberries from Florida, for two months out of the year sometimes we can get stuff grown in New Jersey, the rest of the time, it's not even grown here.
Ask yourself why Walmart gives money to charter schools. Do they really care? No, they only want to privatize schools so they can put their dirty hands in the cookie jar. Boycott Walmart, support your small business.
How often do I hear these sentiments from all forums, waiting for years for this movement. It is real, it is sustainable, it can make a difference in our lives. We just have to stay involved, since our lack of involvement led to this. Vote them all out, and keep voting them out, and stay the course with OWS. They seem to be doing a great job so far.
No more "streamlining" no more "new economy" No more "new economic reality" no more "government too big" no more "rightsizing government" no more "tax too high" all keywords for corporate takeover of the USA. Tell them to stop selling our government to corporations
I just finished editing a short documentary from the Special Assembly yesterday. Here's the link for anyone not there who wants a sense of what was going on here in Washington Square Park:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiD9qWWVa0
Long live the revolution!
Overturn Citizens United, keep corporate cash out of our elections. This is not the United Corporations of America!
Boycott FedEx
And i hope you guys are not supporting Obama for re election because what he is doing right now is selling you BS.. Ron Paul is the one who didnt vote for the bailouts and the same one who wants to end the wars to bring economic stability to this country.. So Vote Ron Paul 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfuS6gfxPY
A report finds that the government's own employees are a lot cheaper than many private contractors it hires. Federal employees are paid an average of $57,292 per year in this position and private-sector employees make an average of $75,637; the contractor billing rate for the same service is a whopping $276,598, more than a federal judge's salary.
http://investmentwatchblog.com/main-street-answers-wall-street/
Making your voice heard and it is fast and simple:
Colombia continues to be the most dangerous place in the world for trade unionists where 51 trade unionists were assassinated last year and 22 so far this year. And Panama, which routinely tramples workers’ rights, is a known haven for tax dodgers and money launderers.
According to the Economic Policy Institute, the Korea trade deal would destroy 159,000 US jobs.
http://www.fiscalpolicy.org/taxhistory2.htm
What is the next best alternative? Here is an idea for a new third party. http://thenewthirdparty.blogspot.com/
“The protests that are trying to destroy the jobs of working people in this city aren’t productive,” Mayor Bloomberg said.
“No new taxes, Fred,” Dean Skelos NYS Senate Majority Leader told Dicker. “I say this in all sincerity: We will not be supportive of any type of increase in income taxes. Cuomo carried out a campaign pledge to not raise taxes or fees to balance the budget in his first year.
I feel the wall street protests are right on for the corporate greed and profits, but we need a movement in washington DC against the government that gave these bailouts and put us so far in debt. What about the Presidents involvement in the arms sent to Mexico. The man has succeeded in ruining this nation and we need an impeachment..why wait until 2012 elections that gives Mr President more time to ask for his bailouts and due more underhanded sales to countries outside our borders.
It can only fail if it does not take real action to change things. Making demands in the street is great and over time it might change a few trivial things to mollify the masses yet it in the long run will change nothing. Only when the masses move to hurt the financial well being of corporate ameriKa and their cronies in the government will there be real movement to correct the ills that the middle class and the poor in this country suffer under. And you ask how can this be done? Look to the Europeans when it comes to mass actions. When they wanted change in the past they took to the street in a GENERAL STRIKE. That is, the public took a day off work and went for a walk in the streets of the cities where they live to let the rich and powerful know they were tired of oppressive economic and political tyranny. Have a general strike for one day a week for a month and see the the money people begin to squirm as the profit margin begins to take a hit.
Talk to the police and get them on your side. They are union members and have the same needs as you. Bloomberg is a union buster and he and the rich try to use the police against their enemies like they did in the early 1900's. They will privatize the police in the country if they can. Go after Bloomberg since he is your biggest enemy and is threatened by you
The Ultimate Solution unfolding in Occupying The Nation...Iowa City Iowa...http://KiMaah.com
I was fortunate enough to join the movement in NYC yesterday. It was beautiful to see. Thank you for starting the movement. Next weekend I will recruit more friends to go with me. Also I will be making flyers, distributing and posting them around towns in my area. Protest peacefully and keep the fight going!
Incredible progress this week! We're on the front page of the NY Times today, again.
I'm a newbie at blogging (this is my first post EVER!) but I'm a songwriter, and after marching at City Hall this week was moved to co-write a song called "We're The 99." You can listen or download a free copy here:
http://www.songsforcauses.com/occupywallstreet/
We're really making something happen by coming together this way. As we wrote in the lyric: "There's 1 percent of them and a whole lot of us."
Your effort will ONLY be taken seriously if it has a unified, CLEAR message of exactly what you want. Vague demands like "Jobs" won't do it because the Government is not going to create jobs in reality. All they can do is set up the environment that promotes more jobs. What is doable is what you need to ask for, and all signs and tee-shirts should carry the same message: NO TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH, NO CUTS TO ENTITLEMENTS (HEALTHCARE, MEDICAID/MEDICARE, SOCIAL SECURITY, ETC.), NO CUTS TO EDUCATION, EXTEND THE HELP FOR HOMEOWNERS PROGRAMS AND LOWER ELIGIBILITY TO INCLUDE THOSE WHO REFINANCED SO MORE ARE ELIGIBLE!
It is a big surprise to see how much courage people you are. Be strong and go ahead. The big center of all world troubles are from Wall Street, the american financing center. You must stay strong and keep growing nation wide. God bless you all! Congratulations from Brazil!
Money doesn't buy happiness, just politicians, all politicians. They owe their souls to the company store and the lobbyists are the store keepers
The Government gave Wall street the bailout money so why isn't there an occupy the white house? That is like going after the drug user instead of the drug dealer.
People should gain real time control over gov't decisions, people should gain the power to veto large financial transactions, microsoft should publish its interface standards.
大旱中共不悔悟 茉莉花革命救民再
Greetings from Brussels, Belgium.
Here the police, supported by the local Gov, is trying to clean out a park where thousands of Europeans are getting togetther (and more it's coming), to make a peacefull movement against the Bankers.
It's funny to see how Europe media (that belongs to the bankers), show how it's nice citizens from Middle East and North Africa go to the streets and protest against the regime in power but, when that happens in Europe, the use they police force.
Guys keep the fate, because we will win.
Rudi Santos
You got that big financial summit coming up Oct. 17-18, France and Germany and the IMF meeting to discuss the bailout for the European Union. Good luck over there Rudi.
Why is it that when we finance/refinance our home WE have to pay points but when banks/private lenders sell our loans to another lender, they can do that without the land deed or paying us points back.
I have two words for what is happening in America especially since 2000, the stolen election. "Corporate Fascism". That is why we are being told that corporations (Oh, sorry a capital C, Corporations) can do a better job than our government because leading Republicans are orchestrating it not to work and a lot of Democrat politicians like/need the corporate donations that the Supreme Court allowed but "You can fool some of the people most of the time but not all the people all of the time" thank goodness!
Here is someone that has been proactive for a loong time, informing us on true medical insights he has gained, I LIKE Doctor Mercola : "Over the last 13 years I've been quietly trying to change the system, but with the corruption and conflict of interest so pervasive today, I've decided it's time to take it to the next level. Spearheading what may be the most daring venture of its kind, find out what lies ahead...Non-Profit "Health Liberty"
Great job ows patriots, we the people have to take control of our country, because the current government is not serving in the best interests of the people. They are serving their own interests.
In U.S. schools we were taught that the Government has three branches, the Legislative branch, the Executive branch, and the Judicial branch. The Legislative branch is the Congress and they make the laws. The Executive branch is the President, who runs the daily business of government. The Judicial branch is the Courts who interpret the law and determine of laws are constitutional. These are the three branches of government you were taught in the government controlled schools.
But there are times when the Government does not represent the People and that the interests of the Government are not the interests of the People.
There are times when the People have to assert their will directly and overrule the Government and assert the supremacy of the will of the People over the will of the Government.
I may not live in the USA, but I am so glad that someone, somewhere is finally making a stand against this issue. Support, regards and good luck from Australia.
There are many fears of what this protest could turn into and what actions they could use. The best I think is to stop. Well maybe not stop that might be too much but a slowdown would work.
Want to see a corporate CEO boss panic, do not threat him or people or things. Look at hitting corporate profits because that is the surest method to take his job and power away. Strikes and walk outs cause some losses but a transportation strike or slowdown means no work gets done but a lot more pay checks go out. If only 4-6 hours of supplies are delivered for every 8 hours, profits are hit rather hard. Time on delivery has a few major drawbacks, strikes being a big one. Why do you think unions have been hunted so hard in the last 20 years.
It should just amaze you that the true power of the 99 is not what it can do but what it can stop doing. Pick a day, any day and do nothing together. A day of no sales from Sears, Wal-Mart, Star bucks could bring cold sweats to many a CEO.
Nov. 11, 2011
11-11-11 a day to remember, There is history to remember and to make. A day to remember those who fought for freedom and a day that freedom need us to fight for.
Who's handling musician booking? :P
Hey, so I happen to live next to Washington Square Park, and I know that it closes at midnight, and I went out a few minutes after midnight and I saw that the cops had cleared out the park as they generally do every night at midnight (although they padlocked the gates, which they don't usually do). So, I'm wondering what the future is for OccupyWashingtonSquare. Is the plan to reassemble every morning and disband every night? Has it been relocated? Or what?
Rise up for your future America This is the only chance! have Americans awakened ? US owned corporate government and CIA controlled mainstream media have brainwashed, softened and paralysed the American people into almost total submission and ignorance.Americans are now seeing through the lies and disinformation of their governmentThis is their last chance to effect real change!
A message of support from Melbourne, Australia...
The Arab spring has shown that the USA waging war on foreign soil is not always necessary for spiritual and political freedom.
People communicating and connecting can be an awesome force.
In Australia, where I live, faith and trust in politicians is at an all time low. About 1 in 4 would vote for our Prime Minister Julia Gillard if an election was called.
However the answer is not just another political party playing by the same rules. I don't know where #OWS is headed, yet I suggest organisers look at http://www.getup.org.au/ for how a social movement can become a truly unstoppable force for change outside the party political system.
I hope you guys end up with a fair tax system, an investment in jobs and a properly regulated financial system.
Good luck from downunder Australia!
Marching & Protest "...Great Ceremony, great rehersal for a show that never got put on the road. For a time we had the attention of the world, there were people even though they hated our guts, that were willing to make concessions based on the fact that we were ready for power, to many speeches, but we did not do the necessary work, unglamorous off camera work, that would have made it possible, ceremony that lacked substance..." Dr. John Henrik Clarke
In the age of iPods and information if we don’t demand change and better system then we are to blame. The tools of the oligarchy are many; their robots will use the media to call us names. But let it be known the occupiers are on a noble ground worth dying for. They are heroes, and this is only the beginning. The revolution has begun, do your part.
Go to the Democrats and Rebublicans private houses and protest there, that will really send them a message and put the wind up them.Then and only then will they listen to you because it now has become personal and against each individual within the government. Those in AiPAC are the main cause of all the problems in The USA. Zionist Iseali agenda gets prefrence over American's needs and wants. Close down AIPAC. Rise up for your future America This is the only chance! have Americans awakened ? US owned corporate government and CIA controlled mainstream media have brainwashed, softened and paralysed the American people into almost total submission and ignorance.Americans are now seeing through the lies and disinformation of their government. This is your last chance to effect real change!
We need a political enema. Provide direction for this cause. The first goal should be to eliminate ALL the representation in the congress and senate we have today. What we have now is pathetic. Do not reelect anyone and continue to do the same each election. Destroy the connection to the 1%. Make the government represent you. We continue to reelect the same self center political business whores. If anything, they do not represent the people.
We need to get new people on the ballots by referendum. Ross Perot said that was how you change the political system, since it is so corrupt with money backing crooked people, vote them out of office, and use referendums to get new people on the ballot. Let's try that in 2012.
none of this addresses the root cause. money's influence in politics. you can't fix the game by changing the players. rather you need to change the rules by which they play - and enforce them.
I do understand what you are saying but you need to continue breaking the links between the politicians and the money. The laws and rules will never change with the status quo in office. The politicians we have now in congress or the senate are corrupted already, if you continuously break that link, you can begin to change the laws that created this to happen. A complete Political Enema will flush the system and this must continue until the laws supporting the one percent are destroyed. BE AWARE, THEY LET THIS HAPPEN. The republicans continue to take an oath, NOT to increase tax on the wealthy. I am a republican and will never vote republican again. I am going Green or Independent. But if I see anyone that has NO political affiliation to what we have now, they got my vote. I would vote for you. The public lies started with Nixon. He should have gone to Jail. Obama had the same dream as most Americans, but the trash was not recycled. Most of the 99% voted for him.
If you want to break down the powers that be, remove them from a system that must make the changes you are trying to complete. The policy and Law makers work for the 1%. It must be disrupted or nothing will start to change. You must ask yourself, who put this country in the situation? Our government supports the 1 %. Germany’s Laws and leadership will never let this happen. I know, I have seen CEO’s try to increase the spread between the rich and poor. It will never happen. The control is the government. The abuse is from Wall Street. Our Laws Support Wall Street, Not the people. This is why Unions formed. Today if you want to dream of financial security. Now many must do what the teachers are doing, they are teaching overseas. After all that is what our government supports and it is where all the Jobs have been going, thanks to Uncle Sam.
Since the Supreme Court recently granted coporations unfettered access to our political election process it will require a Constitutional ammendment to undo the injustice. Federal funding of all House, Senate, and Presidential elections will break the cycle of money's influence on the electoral process. Government oversight is required to reign in the excesses of Wall Street. Removing the corporate influence on politicians through campaign contributions can return representation to the people. It will also facilitate the rise of third parties and the ability to move legislation such as social justice and environmental concerns through the legislature. Even the politicians should appreciate not being in constant campaign mode and might find time to do the people's business.
Untrue. The problem is not the people in office, but the system.
Stalin did not fix Russia by issuing political purges. He made a more corrupt (and brutal) government. US gov't has been made worse not better with term limits. The tea party had the exact same statement as you "throw out the bums" and they got WORSE bums in office.
I'm not going to bang my head against the same wall and expect different results. No matter who you put in office, money will corrupt them because that is how the game is played.
occupymorganstanley.com
You need to understand how we got here. Get a movie screen out there and show the Oscar winning Documentary "Inside Job" over and over so people are educated.
"I think we will have continuing danger from these markets and that we will have repeats of the financial crisis -- may differ in details but there will be significant financial downturns and disasters attributed to this regulatory gap, over and over, until we learn from experience." Brooksley Born
Also.
Michael Lewis http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6298084n&tag=contentMain;contentBody Also see part 1
Frontline The Warning <http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2nZbo8SKbg or now http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmKsaxZ_Hjg
Watch online below 60 minutes segments on Derivatives, Credit Default Swaps, bucket shops & 1933 Glass Steagall.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5274961n&tag=related;photovideo http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5274961n&tag=related;photovideo
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4502673n
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4501762n From 1995
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2nZbo8SKbg Senator Dorgan predicted all this in 1999 on the Senate floor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvnO_SH-4WU&feature=related Also Part 2 all very interesting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vky9cz3Usls
Zeus from Colorado
The planets and stars are in the same alignment as they were during the American Revolution. Not only the country supports #ows, but the entire universe!!! We must take this opportunity to change the two party system, but the prison, health and education system should become NOT For PROFIT. Power to the 99%!
And the solar flares have not even hit yet, as they will in 2012, where we might go back to having no electricity for years in certain places. Dec. 21, 2012 may be a pivotal moment in our country, and no matter who is elected in November 2012, the rules may change very suddenly.
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/newsroom/sources/SkyTelescope-Superstorm.pdf
Scroll to the last page, page 14, check out the map, 130 MILLION people may be in danger of having no electricity for years when the solar storm hits.
In the near future, the word "nationwide"in the second line of this website's tilte should be changed to WORLDWIDE. For us in Thailand, our experience is just like when the 9/11 interrupted the anti-globalization movement started in Seattle. but we hope that the flood would not interrupt our anti-coup and democracy restoration movement. In SOLIDARITY
In the near future, the word "nationwide"in the second line of this website's tilte should be changed to WORLDWIDE. For us in Thailand, our experience is just like when the 9/11 interrupted the anti-globalization movement started in Seattle. but we hope that the flood would not interrupt our anti-coup and democracy restoration movement. In SOLIDARITY
In the near future, the word "nationwide"in the second line of this website's tilte should be changed to WORLDWIDE. For us in Thailand, our experience is just like when the 9/11 interrupted the anti-globalization movement started in Seattle. but we hope that the flood would not interrupt our anti-coup and democracy restoration movement. In SOLIDARITY
We must remember that the politicians are owned by wall street. the biggest blow would be to oust the incumbants. Especially the republicans. They have become the republiKLAN party.
you need to oust money's influence. otherwise it'll be "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
occupymorganstanley.com
In the near future, the word "nationwide"in the second line of this website's tilte should be changed to WORLDWIDE. For us in Thailand, our experience is just like when the 9/11 interrupted the anti-globalization movement started in Seattle. but we hope that the flood would not interrupt our anti-coup and democracy restoration movement. In SOLIDARITY
This Documentary Written produced directed by Pete Mc Grain Presented by Woody Harrelson Should be recommended viewing for everyone. Go to the link and if you agree post this link everywhere make sure it goes viral http://ethosthemovie.com/
Hi guys,
I am from the Arab World (Morocco) and I express my solidarity with your movement, just keep going guys like we did in our Arab Spring and get your American Spring as well and we will surely get rid of this 1% minority who sucks our blood and doesn't respect us...All people from all over the world will eventually meet together and enjoy a better way of life with no hate, no racism, no war but brotherhood and justice .. THANKS
Insha'Allah! Maybe you will have a berber spring too!
I have fond memories of Morocco. Its like a second home to me - the landscape being so similar to my home here in California. Good luck to you in your beautiful country!
So I went down to Zucotti Park. (I was the shifty-eyed fat guy who looks like he probably cries and masturbates himself to sleep at night.)
The OWS website said there was a General Assembly meeting at 7pm, but all I saw was a drum circle, unless that was the General Assembly meeting, which if that's the case had pretty good rhythm for a meeting.
My impression so far is that it is largely a fringe left thing, which is too bad. Because it says it wants to be for "the 99%." But as we urbane cosmo weenies are always lamenting, the 99% in America is more conservative than in the soccer-playing countries. Sad but true. Not that you shouldn't wear your Che shirt if you want to. He certainly was a handsome guy.
I just think if OWS wants to get something done, you might need to come up with a platform. The leaderless free-for-all thing sounds cool, but you predictably end up with the same old buffet of grievances that pretty much alienate the majority of people.
Also the anti-capitalism stuff has limitations. I know it may feel like you're on the cusp of some kind of revolutionary change, but people in protest movements have a history of feeling that way, paper tigers and whatnot.
I guess that part of it, the feeling of being on the "frontlines," is understandable. Maybe it has something to do with what David Foster Wallace called, "The conflict between the subjective centrality of our own lives versus our awareness of its objective insignificance." Maybe for us post-Boomers, we feel that paradox more acutely, because we've never had a grand unifying narrative.
And capitalism can be cruel. The market is capricious, what it rewards is sometimes good, sometimes evil, mostly benign. Your good idea may never get a chance and that hurts. So I guess I understand how intelligent people could arrive at a place where they thought that 1) overthrowing capitalism would be a good idea, and 2) they had a shot at pulling off some kind of socialist revolution in lower Manhattan, but that's why sometimes its good to get out into the world and remind yourself that there are many millions of people who think differently than you and your friends.
And if you want to change things you will have to appeal to those people. Unless what you really want is just to shift America ever so slightly closer to a drum circle and tent-city economy. Which might be where we're headed.
All of you have NO sense. Most of the retirement plans and retirements for most people in this country. Also, I think this is going to hurt the job market more than help it. Companies will be even more scared to hire people. No, I am not rich. My wife is a teacher for 20 years and I am a server administrator. Yes, I was laid off, and been fortunate enough to have found a job. All of you idiots need to realize that this administration is doing things to hurt job creation. I live in a rural area, and their actions are even impacting farmers. You want to make a difference, get this president and all his cronies out of the White House! Look at those of use in the South. We are smart. We like our jobs and are not protesting. All of the actions of the Unions have driven a lot of jobs down here. We are happy to have them. Notice, we don't typically ever vot in Unions down here! Spend your energy finding a job, working, and quit hurting the ecomony worse! By the way, the banks have paid all the money back, with interest. So, WE THE PEOPLE made a profit. The Obama administration just turned around and waisted it. Just like this jobs program his is pushing is nothing but another stimulus plan. The previous ones failed. This is just more of the same.
Every flu innoculation hurts for the first bit. But without it, the flu huirts worse. Necessary change to such an entrenched and corrupt system will cause reverberations. We will all attempt to weather them as best we can. Hopefully with help from each other.. But to avoid them and permit the status quo, the sale of your voice, your dreams, your justice and autonomy, your representation... that would hurt for ever.
Voice to the People, it was time. Enough is enough, Money ,and the Lobby are taking this country down and ,ordinary people are just paying for it
http://www.epicstep.com/campaign/337/occupytogether-occupywallst-billboard/
Just saw some dude on CNN in a suit and tie who was identified as a 'media relations' person for Occupy Wall St. Tyler Combelic? The guy was about as articulate as your average 3rd grader. A not very bright 3rd grader. Painful to watch. What about Jesse La Graca, he's the dude who should talk to the media, PLUS he doesn't wear ties! Rev. Billy Talen was pretty good on CNN as well. Need precise, intelligent, insightful people to speak to the media and cut through their banal talking head crap.
Just saw some dude on CNN in a suit and tie who was identified as a 'media relations' person for Occupy Wall St. Tyler Combelic? The guy was about as articulate as your average 3rd grader. A not very bright 3rd grader. Painful to watch. What about Jesse La Graca, he's the dude who should talk to the media, PLUS he doesn't wear ties! Rev. Billy Talen was pretty good on CNN as well. Need precise, intelligent, insightful people to speak to the media and cut through their banal talking head crap.
the solution.
http://youtu.be/Ka1ym7S3F3w
Irony. One of the men arrested in the protest is the son of someone I feel is no different than "Wall Street". His daddy has 2 homes. A summer home back east and he lives in a log mansion in Montana. He does 1/2 the work I do (I am a teacher) and gets paid big bucks to babysit on cool field trips. We were told we had to get bake sales approved by him because we are a drain on the community. That money directly impacts our students..but he is helping with a field trip to China for his daughter and a few others and expects the community to come up with $40,000 dollars to fund it! Hey rich people, stop sucking off people and fund your own trips! I have an idea! Sell your plasma like I've had to do!
Just remember, some people may not realize they are the 1%!
Irony. One of the men arrested in the protest is the son of someone I feel is no different than "Wall Street". His daddy has 2 homes. A summer home back east and he lives in a log mansion in Montana. He does 1/2 the work I do (I am a teacher) and gets paid big bucks to babysit on cool field trips. We were told we had to get bake sales approved by him because we are a drain on the community. That money directly impacts our students..but he is helping with a field trip to China for his daughter and a few others and expects the community to come up with $40,000 dollars to fund it! Hey rich people, stop sucking off people and fund your own trips! I have an idea! Sell your plasma like I've had to do!
Just remember, some people may not realize they are the 1%!
Let's start fighting back! http://99vs1.wordpress.com
occupyjpmorgan.com / market cap: 119.7b usd, domain value: 1197 usd
occupymorganstanley.com / market cap: 27.5b usd, domain value: 275 usd
occupycreditsuisse.com / market cap: 30.2b usd, domain value: 302 usd
occupybarclays.com / market cap: 30.29b usd, domain value: 302 usd
occupycitigroup.com / market cap: 71.8b usd, domain value: 718 usd
occupyubs.com / market cap: 42.5b usd, domain value: 425 usd
I, too, have been waiting for this for a long time. We've been sheep too long. Romulus7
As Howard Zinn said, (You can't stay neutral on a moving train) Great work. You are our moving train.
As Howard Zinn said, (You can't stay neutral on a moving train) Great work. You are our moving train.
do any of you use deodorant? don't think so!!!
this was pretty pathetic. and so were all the losers who attended. go cut my grass!
Be cautious how you use the term Democracy. It can be used to infer equal rights, but it is also a very specific form of Government. The U.S. is a Constitutional Republic with elements of a Representative Democracy. Some states have a form of Direct Democracy with referendums or ballot initiatives. It is confusing so be sure to know the difference, use the term correctly, or clarify which meaning you are intending to use.
The main problem is campaign financing. All problems stem from there. How can we expect politicians to do the right thing when they are paid to do the wrong? Fixing that is the first step and is the pivotal problem.
Money should not have a voice that is louder than yours and mine.
what do you think of capturing on video all countries' presidents' lives 24/7 to assure all they do is done for the people?
It just all seems strange. Many are against corporations. But didn't this or that corporation start as a person -- seeking something better? A novel idea, similar to what Steve Jobs did, or the fellow who created or refined the printing press, and other inventions. A person grew into many people and at some point I guess was labeled a "corporation." Isn't each one of us that one corporate body who aspires for something better -- some security -- a better life -- looking for that better or best career? Am I wrong to succeed, if making 40K a year is success. Am I supposed to pay for you to go to college; to pay for your Iphone? I've learned and taken what I know to progress; to do better. I reach out to those in need, but I don't think they are off the hook. The one who loses his license in driving drunk -- am I supposed to drive him to work now? I used to think that the county in Texas I worked for was cheap, not giving more than a 2% raise each year. How dare them. This year they will pay 500 dollars per month on my health care and another 500 as their part of my future retirement. There is no guarantee for them to hire me or keep me hired, no more than WalMart should provide health care for any of their workers. I have no right to a minimum wage or FREE anything. Besides any unemployment pay I might ever receive as allowed, should not I save up toward having an emergency fund. If I don't maintain my car (oil, water, tires), and it quits working, is it your responsibility to buy me a new one. I think the Oc. Wall Street folks would say yes. Do you have jobs; how are your supporting yourself? If you have a job, who went on the hook or took the risk WAY back there to start that venture? I'm confused about your anger and demands. We are similar to the serious drought in Texas. No rain is going into the reservoirs -- but folks want to keep taking the water out. No rain, but they want to water yards and wash cars. What happens when all the water is used? Sure there is waste in the government. But we send them all the money they use, or they borrow or print it. I'm confused, and don't have time to take off work . . . to complain about it.
We are not against corporations. We are in favor of publicly controlled gov't above corporations.
People should gain real time control over gov't decisions, people should gain the power to veto large financial transactions, microsoft should publish its interface standards.
We are not against corporations. Successful corporations are good. What we don't like is corporations using their money to influence policies in the government, not just to their advantage, but at the expense of the tax payer. Of course, not all corporations do this. It is primarily the banks and the defense companies that exploit the system.
Dont forget big agribusiness and energy companies. Dont let them off scott free again because they are a big part of it. And I agree with you. People keep making the "Apple analogy" and that indicates they do not understand the difference. Lets look at the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and all the good it has done. Microsoft isnt perfect but it is alot better than many companies who are just primarily destructive. Those companies dont sit out in the open like Apple but hide in the shadows. But they have probably the most influence in Washington. There is only one thing I have a complaint about with most companies, including Apple, and that is offshoring jobs.
I forgot the energy companies, the agribusinesses, the health insurance scam network. The list is long! I am not sure about jobs going overseas. With better communication (Internet) and transportation, jobs are going to move where labor is cheapest. That used to happen just inside a country when we were not this connected. Would people in California complain, for example, if all California jobs went to Arizona because labor was cheaper there?
Are you willing to pay $2000 for an ipad just because it is made in the USA?
Protectionism cannot be sustained. What we have to do is innovate and grow industries so more local people can be employed. In the past the US used to manufacture and export stuff because we invented and made them. Other countries like China or India did not have the necessary infrastructure or training to make them. As the rest of the world catches up, this is bound to happen.
I understand it is a complex problem but asking companies to not shift jobs overseas is not practical. I don't claim to know the answer.
If we could just get the income in our country restructured, I bet there would be no concern about jobs overseas at all. I dont really care so much where something is made but I do care about the conditions the people who made it have to live in. This is about them too. In China, they cant stand up and do this at all but this is about them too. We can stop offshoring but we can stop pandering to companies using slave labor and that kind of thing. Eventually, that is going to stop offshoring all by itself. But we need to protect, for instance, the small farmer from big agribusiness and that sort of thing and the consumer from business abuse in general. Why it does not happen is the reason people are in the streets. As for California and Arizona, part of the problem is that there are states that are not labor friendly. They get more jobs, maybe, but the fact is that those jobs pay less than they would in a labor friendly state. We should strive to have people in Mississippi treated the same as people in Michigan, or Montana, or Calfornia. Why do you really think so many states are trying to pass laws against collective bargaining?
Get the income restructured? In other words, wealth redistribution. My wife and I work hard. As a teacher, she probably puts in 80 hours a week. I don't want or need to support anyone else. All I care about is supporting my own family. I don't need or want any one's help, much less the government. The last thing I want is the government controlling my health care. I also want Obama care revoked!
You assume funding source dictates control. A fair assumption. So who do you really think controls your health care now? As for redistribution, people have made this into something it is not. There is clearly a very serious income gap that formed, and is continuing to widen. This coincided with reductions in capital gains and top marginal tax rates. At the same time, there are actually fewer Americans paying federal income taxes because the income of the lower 50% of the population in our country fell below the level of taxation. As a result, government has been trying to redistribute for a number of years through gimmicks like easy credit and EIC. The real solution is to have incomes rise for people in the lower end and fall on the top end. You and your wife.....well I dont know what you do but if she is a teacher and you have a similar job, I assume you fall well within the middle class. The point is that you simply would not be affected, though many public servants, including teachers, could see some increase in pay. Either way, this really happens when you structure the tax code correctly. As a matter of fact, it happened for us for at least 30-40 years due to a couple of things. One was slightly more powerful unionized labor which, despite what people may tell you, is sadly lacking the power it formerly had. The other is something that happens naturally when the super rich are taxed much more than other people. No one saw this as the least bit unusual until we hit about the last 30 years or so. And we had a more vibrant economy with a larger middle class.
Yes, we are middle class. I am an IT guy. Personally, I agree the tax code is wrong. More people need to be paying. This is why I like Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax code idea.
I agree with you. More people need to be paying. But I believe that you are going about this the wrong way.
The more you increase the tax burden on the lower classes, the more it is like squeezing blood from a turnip. They don't have much to spend in the first place, and by increasing sales taxes you will discourage them from buying things. Revenues WILL dry up.
Now, at first glance, you might appear to offset this by eliminating income taxes completely. But that's a no go. Yes, at first people will be bringing in a bit more money than they were at first. Eventually, however, market forces will drive those wages to a position equivalent to what was being made before the taxes were repealed. You won't be making more money in the long haul. Meanwhile, you will be paying a higher percentage of your income in taxes than wealthier people. I don't know about you, but if I'm paying 17 cents out of every dollar on a new car I'm buying, that's taking a bigger chunk out of my income than a millionaire buying the same model.
Now, we're likewise not going to solve our budgetary problems by shifting the burden completely onto the rich either. That's not to say that they shouldn't pay more. I don't know that I would raise taxes on the current highest income bracket, but it wouldn't hurt to tax at higher rates on every dollar over a million, every dollar over ten million, and every dollar over fifty million. In America's most prosperous periods the highest brackets were set between 70% and 90% on every dollar over a certain amount. Remember, if you make over $250,000 a year, you don't pay the $250,000 rate on every dollar you make... you only pay it on every dollar over $250,000.
Anyway, as I said, long term sustainability requires that the tax burden be spread out among more people. There are two ways to do this. The first, as I mentioned, is to shift the burden onto the poor. The second is to find ways to raise income among the lower classes so that you shift them towards the middle class. This is the point behind social spending and programs designed to remove the expense burden from lower income earners.
It is not a simple solution, as tends to be the case with the solutions required by real life. The great nation you see around you was not built on a set of ideological premises like "free market always good" and "income taxes always bad" but rather on finding reasonable balances in policies where such balances present themselves.
The sales tax works against the economy. That puts it at around 17% in California. Nobody buys anything in that case and keep in mind, the folks who will still be able to afford everything? Well, Herman Cain and people like him. Millionares. But the rest of us will be afraid to buy a pencil because we dont want to pay 17 cents per dollar on it. Thats the problem I see with it.
Have you read the plan? He does away with most of the other taxes that come out of our pay checks. The only taxes are the three 9's. Therefore, if you do away with the other taxes that come out of your check, that adds 15% or more back to your check. I have relatives in TN, there sales tax is 9.25%. People still vacation, shop, buy, etc there.
Yeah but then it would be 18% and for alot of people.....well some of it is once again about what kind of income group you are in. Sure, if you get jerked for 30% right now (I would remind you that the 1% usually dont pay that much....its the upper middle that gets jerked) then 18% is a break. But for people making $20,000 a year....well, sales tax is paid by everyone isnt it. And an effective 18% tax on those folks or even just 18% in TN is pretty harsh when they are already struggling to survive. Why would we pay down debt on the backs of people who are already poor?
It will work to some extent. Even without slave labor, countries with a bigger population are going to have cheaper labor. They just have more people to do the same thing. That just pushes down the price. This is a problem that needs more thought. What OWS can do meanwhile is make sure those corporations do not manipulate government policies to make it easy for them to use slave labor.
I am a 99%er and I am with you all in SPIRIT as I am not physically able to be there. I lived the 60's protests and I can't tell you how long I have waited for this. GOD BLESS YOU ALL! Take back our country! WE THE PEOPLE.........POWER TO THE PEOPLE. It's time for the 1% to DO what they were ELECTED to Do and that is ..........REPRESENT THE PEOPLE not the corporations and big business. I will support all of you all over the country as much as I can. The 99%ers are TOO BIG TO FAIL!
I am a 99%er and I am with you all in SPIRIT as I am not physically able to be there. I lived the 60's protests and I can't tell you how long I have waited for this. GOD BLESS YOU ALL! Take back our country! WE THE PEOPLE.........POWER TO THE PEOPLE. It's time for the 1% to DO what they were ELECTED to Do and that is ..........REPRESENT THE PEOPLE not the corporations and big business. I will support all of you all over the country as much as I can. The 99%ers are TOO BIG TO FAIL!
Another admirer! I'm following the action eagerly from abroad (I'm teaching in Russia for a year). I don't think everything in the world or about capitalism is bad, but there is plenty of corruption, unfairness and externalities that should be addressed that aren't. So I think its great that you're throwing a wrench in the works to force our power structure to confront things it'd rather not take on aggressively. Thanks guys, and if you're really there as long as it takes, I'll be joining in in the new year :-)
does anyone know, where i can find the names of the dozends of us-towns whith ongoing demonstrations? i would like to publish it in my german blog (http://waldemarmeyer.wordpress.com/) to motivate for the starting demonstrations in germany.
p.s.: you are brilliant!! thanks for your courage!
All of you have NO sense. Most of the retirement plans and retirements for most people in this country. Also, I think this is going to hurt the job market more than help it. Companies will be even more scared to hire people. No, I am not rich. My wife is a teacher for 20 years and I am a server administrator. Yes, I was laid off, and been fortunate enough to have found a job. All of you idiots need to realize that this administration is doing things to hurt job creation. I live in a rural area, and their actions are even impacting farmers. You want to make a difference, get this president and all his cronies out of the White House! Look at those of use in the South. We are smart. We like our jobs and are not protesting. All of the actions of the Unions have driven a lot of jobs down here. We are happy to have them. Notice, we don't typically ever vot in Unions down here! Spend your energy finding a job, working, and quit hurting the ecomony worse! By the way, the banks have paid all the money back, with interest. So, WE THE PEOPLE made a profit. The Obama administration just turned around and waisted it. Just like this jobs program his is pushing is nothing but another stimulus plan. The previous ones failed. This is just more of the same.
No one really is very worried about what one administration did or did not do. They are worried about the consistently large force exerted by corporations. As for unions, they are worried about the degradation of unions at the behest of these same corporations.
Which as far as I am concerned, the unions are part of the problem. They try to get more benefits for less money. That is why we don't really have unions in the South. We prefer the jobs. Yes, they unions had a good purpose 60 or 70 years ago. Now, they are not necessary. The benefits they request or as for is why companies like GM have had so many problems.
I would like to see an honest, non partisan report of what sort of benefits unions are getting now. I have worked union and non union jobs. If the employer was any good, the benefits were about the same, though the overall situation was insecure on the non union jobs. Job security is a major reason why people work, why they take union jobs, why they take government jobs. And I dont think that is so bad.
Well, my father worked for one of the few textile plants that went union down here. BTW, it closed 4 years later. The only thing he said he saw it did was protect the laziest and worst workers from being fired.
Sometimes.....just like sometimes in our democratic system, guilty people go free (the jury system). Sometimes people game the system....sometimes lots of things happen but on the whole, the democratic way is best and at least in a union, you get a vote.
Well, no one I have spoken with around here, who has been in a union, has ended up thinking it was good. I was just in a training class two weeks ago. One of there people there was from Wisconsin. He said he had worked in a union and not in one. He said he always found the union inflexible and didn't like it. It may just be my career. To my knowledge, there are NO IT unions. We don't like them. We like negotiating our own salaries and making as much as possible. We are independent and like being in control of things. When the discussion came up, and the entire class spoke negative of unions. We just don't like them. I have never met another IT person that did.
But it doesnt always work that way for people in all professions. There is a segment out there in the business world, and I assume you have to know this, that does not negotiate, keeps people poor and powerless and says, "you will take what we give you." The only things that get in the way of it going completely downhill is the federal minimum wage. We had two sets of Verizon workers, union and non union. Union made more. So clearly, the Verizon workers with a union were able to negotiate better wages than those without one. I understand the inherant problems with unions, but I also understand the contributions they made to the middle class. And lets face it, here are the stats: The top 1% make 24% of the total income in this country now as opposed to the top 1% making 9% of the income in the 1970's. Those are just the facts and that is what I think this group is trying to correct. I mean, is it right that a bunch of people make so little at this point that they pay no taxes. Often I see people using that the other way around but the reason for it is that the income distribution in the country is different, so the taxes are different. Fix the income and you fix the taxes.
The conservative response to the Occupy Wall Street protests is disingenuous and dishonorable in the extreme. This strategy which ignores the aspirations of the American people in order to maintain the corporate grip on power is amoral. Conservatives know very well what is being demanded, attempts to muddy the waters with a “lack of understanding” are only desperate attempts to discredit the protesters.
Stated simply WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK!
We seek to:
Insure that hundreds of thousands of hard working Americans who cannot afford a doctor when they are sick receive medical treatment.
Discredit the government lie that jobs are being created. Replacing good jobs with low wage jobs that have no benefits is not job growth. These “new jobs” constitute a life sentence of impoverishment.
Hold accountable bankers and speculators who crashed our economy by duping honest Americans into home loans they could ill afford, selling the loans at huge profits, and leaving our citizens to pay the price.
Live in a country where corporations are not considered people. People are people, with human rights that trump the rights of corporations.
Grant nonprofit and humanitarian organizations more access to the halls of power in Washington than corporations.
End corporate domination of the political process by limiting or denying them the ability to purchase politicians, governments, or political parties.
Live in a country where corporations are required to consider the public interest prior to moving jobs overseas.
Establish that the rich have a moral and legal obligation to pay an equal percentage of their income in taxes as the middle class.
You know what we want; playing stupid will not save you from the changes that will flow from these protests.
We will not desist until you return our country to its citizens.
Peter Dybing
Peter, It is the Dems as well who are in the grip of big money. I think we need a third-party to represent reason -- at least until they too are co-opted. lyle
This movement is not against conservatives. It is against the 1%. The 99% includes people of all frequencies along the political spectrum.
Hot off the Press: Occupy and Save America (currently OWS) will peacefully protest and strive to make these goals a reality:
You cant remove the power to tax, then ask people to pay taxes. Rethink this......taxes can be used in beneficial ways if there are fewer business interests involved.
Hot off the Press: Occupy and Save America (currently OWS) will peacefully protest and strive to make these goals a reality:
In other words, you want to make the entire economy of the United States collapse and we all be up s#$t creek without a paddle!
why does the image of the Guy Fawkes mask keep coming to my mind? It's a good thing though :)
This is not a polemic. I can only speak for myself. I kind of want to support you guys, but I'm also wary, here's why. If it was just about the banks having a back door to the treasury I'd be all in. Unfortunately, looking at the schedule on this site and some of the signs, it seems like the usual radical left cornucopia (I'm a liberaltarian of sorts) that indicts virtually every aspect of American life.
It's your movement and you can do what you want with it, but I'm afraid that what will happen is that the powers that be will just co-opt whatever pieces of the agenda will increase their power. The same can be said of the Tea Party. There probably are some people in that movement genuinely opposed to statist/corporatist power, but the Republicans will only satiate the sections (like the Christian right) that are not a threat to their power. MSNBC will tell me that they are all racists, like Fox wil tell me that you're all commies, because thats the role they play for the parties they serve, to keep us at each other's throats. But the problem is that both movements do have sections who are less concerned with placing restraints on power than with bossing each other around - about who I fuck, or how much energy I use, or what substances I take, or what I eat. The parties can throw their respective bases a bone here and there with a law that tells the other side how to live, thereby increasing the government's (and by extension the banks') power, and keeping us locked in to the hate cycle.
Although personally I think it's pretty much a non-issue, I don't think a "revolution" would be the way to go either. Anti-capitalist revolutions haven't worked out well. That's not just some Republican myth. They really haven't. As bad as capitalism can be, it could be worse.
To the extent that Occupy Wall Street is about restraining statist/corporatist power I support you guys, though I do fear the possibility that your movement may cause more harm than good. I wish the protest were more focused, though you certainly have every right to protest anything you want. I will come down there and talk to some people because I don't like the way the media segregates us into groups that hate and fear each other. And I don't like the way Bloomberg and the cops have treated you, and I would feel guilty if I turned my back on other people being brutalized just because we have disagreements.
Without addressing everything you have written, I'd like to agree with you and thank you for writing something well-thought out. To add a bit of perspective: having lived in some temporary autonomous communities that were essentially leaderless, it is incredibly powerful to see this happen on the world stage. It requires a great deal of personal commitment, humility, and intelligence to participate in a "direct democracy" or "anarchy," depending on what you call it. I mention this because my experience living in these systems helps me to react to the situation, where no platform currently exists, with a degree of familiarity. It may seem like the movement lacks direction, but my suspicion is that focus is emerging organically and powerfully, albeit quietly. When people construct their direction in this very equitable and autonomous way, it takes longer, but it is inevitably a thousand-fold more powerful than when people listen to a few of the more popular members' passionate instructions.
Watch: this movement may look loose, but anarchy is incredibly resilient and unfathomably wise when people have the courage and commitment to live it.
You say it so well, CoyoteOh. This has been my experience, also. I have participated in similar communities both in Salt Lake City and at the Nevada Test Site.
Over time one major objective will emerge. Are we fighting for decent healthcare? are we fighting for a decent education? Are we fighting for a decent standard of living? workers rights? teachers pay? There are many issues. There is however the most important issue - corporations owning the government.
I do have one thing to say - please dont be hijacked by the democratic party or the unions or some other party with a political agenda.
How are you planning on accomplishing whatever it is your trying to accomplish.
"The banks were bailed out/ the people were sold out." REALLY?? TAKE A FUCKING ECONOMICS CLASS.
LAY ME OUT A DETAILED PLAN INSTEAD OF BULLSHIT RHETORIC.
If your debts are worse than prison (no hope of getting free), you are a financial slave! After 9 years and $31,000. in student loan payments to the very successful Goal Financial, I still owe exactly the same amount I did in 2003. I am the future of the student loan program, broke and throwing away my hard earned money every month so guys like Ryan Katz can live like kings.
Making Demands plays into the "System." What happens if we make demands and they refuse them--do we then turn and go home?
talked w/ one of my g/f's who shared an editorial cartoon-2 jail cells-one occupied by those arrested from occupy wall st (with caption) and the other empty with caption - bankers who were bailed out...........summed it up for me! keep up the good work-i'm here in orlando and we have a march coming up!
I think the movement stands for a lack of responsibility.
When criminals lie on the witness stand they're simply attempting to avoid punishment. When corporate executives claim that they earn 200 to 300 times what they pay their employees, it's more like listening to psychotics who actually believe their own mad ravings.
Where are you? And were are the donations?
5 hours, and no response. Show us the money!! 5 hours, and no response. Show us the money!! 5 hours, and no response. Show us the money!! 5 hours, and no response. Show us the money!!
No money from me. I think the whole thing is a stupid waste to time and energy. People should be spending this kind of energy looking for a job! There are over 3 million unfilled job openings in the U.S. Per a MSNBC report. Just because they may not be where you live. Think about moving. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43465034/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/t/funding-scarce-training-new-hires/
When criminals lie on the witness stand they're simply attempting to avoid punishment. When corporate executives claim that they earn 200 to 300 times what they pay their employees, it's more like listening to psychotics who actually believe their own mad ravings.
When criminals lie on the witness stand they're simply attempting to avoid punishment. When corporate executives claim that they earn 200 to 300 times what they pay their employees, it's more like listening to psychotics who actually believe their own mad ravings.
I was going to go show my support, but that band sucks, so I will be forced to stay home and avoid them. Good luck!
My prayers and blessings are there for you! Wish I could be there in person, but I cannot. Instead I ordered two pizza's to be delivered to you from liberty pizza. Stay strong and thrive! :)
http://wordsofwhizdumb.blogspot.com/2011/10/check-republic.html
I am old but with you all in spirit - the banks have gotten out of control. My thoughts here:
http://wordsofwhizdumb.blogspot.com/2011/10/check-republic.html
I am old but with you all in spirit - the banks have gotten out of control. My thoughts here:
http://wordsofwhizdumb.blogspot.com/2011/10/check-republic.html
Bloomberg is a hypocrite: Let's all contact the Union for the Unemployed and urge them to join and organize a march on Wall Street. Contact them at (301) 967-4520 or email: UCubed@iamaw.org.
I am 99%! Wake up 99% your energy and resources can be used for bliss and not choashaving faith and power in numbers is statistics not solidarityso there is not an actual figure--it is a guess
I am interested in donating 100% of ad proceeds accrued from my youtube videos covering the protests to OWS (Youtube has asked me to revenue share). But I need help from a popular blogger to get the word out. Is anyone willing/interested in helping me do so??
You can view one of the more popular videos here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRYJqFPVcXA
I appreciate any help I get! (please message me on Youtube or through this site! Thanks!!)
Love the Joe Hill T-shirt and so glad our youth is hip to our militant labor history
It's a beautiful day out here in NYC! Someone upstairs likes what they are seeing!! I want what you want. A decent FULL time job so I can pay back loans I took for my college education. I want Washington to stop rewarding companies that produce and ship our jobs outside of the country. I want the greedy co-opting of our government by big Corporations and big Banking to END. I want to END the FED. I want us to bring back the Glass Stegall Act. I want the war to end and our soldiers to come home where they belong. I want clean food and water and a cleaner planet. I want the 1% to be held accountable and pay their fair share in taxes, even more because the 1% stole most of what they have from Mom and Pop.I want to have an open mind and even though many people here are from the left, right and the middle I want us to have an open line of communication and work together! Unlike Washington. We elect and they neglect. I want what you want. I want what the 99% of us want. RESIST and peacefully OCCUPY!!!
What happened to "For the people"? End politicians. End corporate control. Take back our country, our lives, our futures. Let THEM eat cake!
Oh boy.
If you do start occupying Washington Square Park, DO NOT under any circumstances, get taken in and co-opted by the pseudo-intellectual pseudo-radical FACULTY POSEURS. That place is crawling with them.
Also DO NOT-- I repeat-- DO NOT allow ANY ONE at NYU (or any of the local schools) including the students, enlist you as the human shield in any of their petty campus politics, directed to their own end and benefit. And, trust me, they WILL try to do so.
This will be a good testing ground for "not getting used."
If they want to join YOU, fine.
God Bless American and the people who make it. I hope we can overcome this political corruption and the military industrial complex by banding together as one, as a people united. We are the 99 percent, and we must unite. I support this movement. I am American. I am Texan. (were not all crazy republican's here in Austin)
I support you 100%. However, I don't think the "movement" will accomplish much of anything without violence. What I think will happen is that the politicians will throw you a bone once they see you're not going away after a few weeks. They'll provide the illusion of reform and you'll all go back home. Then, they'll continue with business as usual. You'll need to drag them kicking and screaming from power because they will not give it up this easily. It's human nature to want to hang onto the money, power, and comforts that they've achieved for themselves. Either way, I applaud what you're trying to do and really hope you succeed. I just don't think you'll effect change without the use of force.
Our Chancellor Merkl is "Deutsche Bank"´s best friend. She´ll do everything to save the 1% , using the money of the 99% !!! So I wish "occupy wall street" movement is spreading to germany also! BUT wall street has to be occupied first, than London and Frankfurt will follow! Please : Don´t give up!
You people must be from another planet or have never read a history book because you sound like a bunch of semi-educated spoiled human beings that think that you have some innovative perspective on how this country should be organized or reshaped to better serve the American public at large. You grossly oversimplify every aspect of how a country must operate to serve and protect it's citizens and what the responsibilities are of the citizens themselves to insure the system actually works. I appreciate that many of you may be out of work or underemployed, and something that actually works has to be done to turn that around, but you do not "throw out the baby with the bath water". We have in this country the best government concept ever devised by man, but it has been perverted over the years, and what should be doing is taking it back to the operating philosophy of our founders and the Constitution.
We couldn't do better than Anti-Flag? Seriously there are about 25,000 bands dying to play for OWS right now. I seriously hope someone's obscure taste isn't setting the musical agenda going forward. The focus should be on talented, well-known acts from diverse backgrounds. Not your favorite punk rock band from high school. Jesus fucking Christ.
we as people need to change our way of thinking and unite this country in wide spread efforts to re-vamp America. The whole world is listening. This is an incredible opportunity to be heard and to inspire.
There's one thing about Occupy Wall Street that I really do not agree with. Blaming the 1% isn't going to change anything. The problems in this country are due to all of us and everyone has to willingly step up and make an effort to change. We have built up this epic non-sustainable infrastructure and we're rapidly destroying our land and severely effecting the eco system.
Yea for Anti-Flag! Not sure dispersing energy with Washington Square is the best strategic move though.
From a beleiver in the cause and the greater good. Two videos from just another commoner. Please view. Thanks for what you're doing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwtm-2aDmJU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbv5I5GD1Yc
From a beleiver in the cause and the greater good. Two videos from just another commoner. Please view. Thanks for what you're doing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwtm-2aDmJU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbv5I5GD1Yc
What Will The End Results Be?
I am one of the 99% but "A LEADERLESS MOVEMENT" gives the 1%what they wanted from the beginning! To occupy is to reside or fill space and dilute or break down with a mass approach of un-organized methods and false reality!
History has shown that when the people are fed up and join together to stand up against for what they believe, THEY ARE UNSTOPPABLE! the media is trying call us "vague" "lacks substance" and other negative subliminal messsages. But we are 99% strong! This is not just a protest, this a MOVEMENT!
History has shown that when the people are fed up and join together to stand up against for what they believe, THEY ARE UNSTOPPABLE! the media is trying call us "vague" "lacks substance" and other negative subliminal messsages. But we are 99% strong! This is not just a protest, this a MOVEMENT!
My eyes well up and my heart swells. Ready to start a OccupyBaltimore. I just need the encouragement.
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Nobel winner Stiglitz explaining: The vicious circle of corporation, CEOs, money, politics and legal system, etc CEOs walk away with loads of money while their wrongdoing is paid back by corporations which is owned by shareholders! Put financial criminals in jail ! Watch the video: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/10/22/joseph-stiglitz-corporate-crooks-to-jail/
THINK THIS THROUGH: based on knowledge of past NYC protests, including the Tompkins Square protest, I think trying to take Washington Square Park is a terrible idea! Do it and the police will clobber you. The park will be closed off and you'll wind up running around in the dark in a tightening trap. It's designed to make this possible. Check it out on Google Earth.
What we need is a deal with 1199, TWU, the UFT or other unions with halls to be able to use one of those halls as a safe, warm, dry, inclusive home base for daily protest on the street.
A union hall or other home base would enable the movement to put out peaceful, legal, daily protests before and during working hours throughout the fall and winter.
The union halls would be a good additional space, but don't put all of your eggs in one basket, and don't let the unions get too much of an upper hand in the movement. We should all be equals in this. And regardless if the protest in NYC grows large enough these concerns will not be important there. Build enough momentum, and you can't be stopped.
First you will be facing police. Get them on your side. Because next you face the national guard .... and also military mercenaries. Make no mistake. Those are the thugs we will face. We should prepare ourselves now, and begin by getting the local governments and police on our side. The Egyptian revolution was successful because the Army had enough self-interest to see what it could gain from the revolution by regime change. There are two lessons there. One - remain an anarchist movement so that no entity like this is allowed to speak for you. Two - you need some might on yourside. It will be easiest to convince local governments and police - fire etc... that they will suffer from austerity measures as well. Get them on your side!
You also need to be sure that you have access to Union leadership if you are staying in their hall. You want the unions to work with you, not use you for their own ends. Don't let them gain an upper hand in negotiations. Right now they rely on you. Keep it that way.
FINALLY...Now what? Once you're done with your whining and walking around you have to take ACTION. The only way to make change is through the voting booth and bad things have happened in many states to keep seniors, inner city blacks, rural voters and more from voting. If you ignore that, if you keep talking to hear each other talk, if you don't look beyond the 'walls' of Wall Street you will accomplish nothing! It's not just you that need the jobs! It's not just jobs this country needs.. AN EVIL HAS INVADED THE HEART AND MIND OF THIS COUNTRY. Your time has come, you have been called together for more, you have a purpose beyond what you see....it's all one big puzzle that can't be fixed by just looking at one piece. REACH OUT TO THIS WHOLE HURTING COUNTRY AND ANSWER ITS CALL we're real proud of you, we've been waiting.......don't ignore us, WE'VE PASSED YOU THE TORCH.....Grown strong, be brothers and sisters, think past yourselves........you will leave a legacy as we did and it will fill your hearts forever!!!
If the only way to make change is through the voting booth, the powers that be have ensured that we can not make change by buying elections.
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I any group in this occupation really wants to ripple wall street, start spraying names of CEO's, individuals and groups who are making millions per day in the derivatives and hedge fund markets over the web...maybe include the addresses of a few of of those 500 million dollar homes they hide so well.
Reading these comments I see a lot of fractious passion, but not much practical knowledge. If you want to change the world, you need to understand how it works now. A lot of the passion seems to be informed by party ideology, but ideology is not the problem. Ideology is a distraction that has allowed Wall Street pirates to fleece the nation while we argue progressive vs. conservative and democrat vs. republican. Ideology is the new, secular opiate of the masses. This movement needs intelligent focus and a cohesive voice if it is to succeed.
This cannot be emphasized strongly enough.
I'm a self-described socialist of sorts -- I put society over capital when it comes to what I believe should be the focus of our economic policies. More importantly, I believe that control over society should be firmly in the hands of those that have to work for a living rather than those who can afford to live off of investments. I believe that capitalism is responsible for a lot of our current woes. With that said, I am NOT anti-capitalism. It is one way of distributing the wealth created by society among others, with its own set of pros and cons. There are times when it offers the most practical solutions and there are other times when it has potential to do the most grave harm.
Rather than seek simple solutions in ideologies that say, "X is bad, Y is good", as a society we need to find our answers from a variety of sources. At this point of the game we can't afford to dismiss sensible options as "no good" because they're (socialist/capitalist/insert theory Z here). All systems are "crappy", it's just that the ideologically driven ones tend to be crappier than others because they leave no room for compromise when reality rears its ugly head.
http://www.occupywallstreet.co.nr/
Support the movement and prepare for the long haul.
Does money paying for those items go directly to the movement? How?
GO OCCUPY WALL STREET. This can be the GREATEST mass movement in our country's history. MUST MUST MUST keep corruption OUT of it. IF you collect moneys make SURE it goes for the good of the movement and NOT in someone's individual pocket. Look to religion to see what kind of corrupting influence it has to collect their millions. People fall for a scam ... DON'T let this group devolve into that. Protect it as much as you can.
I am with you. I cannot be in body but I am in spirit....Brings me back to the 60's anti Vietnam days. BUT the bad thing was it got Nixon elected in 68. DO NOT HAND A GIFT TO ROMNEY OR ANY REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE. Yes, I have criticisms of our president BUT he is a darn sight better than his opposition. don't forget that. There is no third party in the US which there should be but until there is he and other Democrats are what we have to work with. get Money OUT of political decision making!
Great idea. Spread out fast in NYC so when the cops shut the main occupation down we'll have somewhere else to go as backup.
I guarantee you, they are schemeing their little brains out this very minute looking for a way to shut this down before it snowballs out of control.
PLEASE someone do something about the Livestream feed. It show erroneous LIVE when it is not live. And the repeated showing of police getting out of hand is not helping to keep things peaceful. Great that this is all decentralized and all--But wrest control of your public feed. Everyone in the chat room is in agreement. Repeated showing of violence is only going to lead to MORE violence. Yes we need to show what bad cops are doing. But not over and over and over. And get the labels straight. DO NOT put LIVE up if it is not live. Can't be that difficult. Or is someone messing with the feed to do this on purpose? Let's have a peaceful and successful protest leading to change in this country. Manage your media better--it is powerful when used appropriately. For instance, being at the GA meeting is wonderful even though I am 1100 miles away. So work on the live feed, PLEASE.
send a PM
The 99% is a simple and effective slogan. However, I think there should be more effort in focusing the anger on the real rotten part of the 1%, the wall street greedy titans who pocket huge profit when time is good and require tax payers to bail them out when they fail. Many people made into the 1% through hard work and contributed to the society on the way, like the late Steve Jobs. They deserve there wealth and shouldn't be the target of the protest.
I know the point is subtle and it may be hard to capture it in a one sentence slogan, but it would be helpful to keep that in mind and unite everyone behind the most obvious common goal.
The mainstream corporate owned media is trying is trying to discredit OWS, but the movement has outfoxed FOX. The OWS generation does not need the old fogy news media. OWS has their own news outlet which old folks like myself (I'm 57 years old) are not a part of. Keep up the good work. OWS has outfoxed FOX!
The ULTIMATE SOLUTION....Occuping The Nation.... http://KiMaah.com
to ms3000: as always in revolutions there is a provocateur person who is trying to manipulate and calm people. Him, the ms3000 is one of those. He posted: "you want too much too fast and it will lead to bloodshed and failure". What do you mean you want too much? is it too much when people need a job and food? is it too much asking for freedom? is it too much to stop the your greedy friends in wallstreet and fed?
THAT'S REVOLUTION, go on boys and girls. A friend from Greece
Thanks for your support. Problems in Greece are far worse than here in the US. I hope things work out for you and Greece. The only way out appears to be a bailout from another country and they would be a temporary fix. We do NOT want to repeat the mistakes Greece has made but we are heading in the same direction.....too many promises from a government made over many years that cannot be paid for. Hopefully we realize government is not the solution to all our problems.
Help is on the way
Despite of the media blackout on this world changing movement, everyone I talked with about this is wishing he is there to participate in the movement. Even we are not physically there but know this our hearts and thoughts are with you, Support from Jordan (Middle East)
anyone who took out loans and was some how fooled into taking out more then they could afford is an idiot if you don't know how much you make and how much you can pay and still have enough to live then you are an idiot anyone with any brain could figure that out and I don't think they fooled anyone I think a bunch of deadbeats took out loans with no intention of paying it back and I think this protest is a bunch of union creeps who are mad because goverments are cutting jobs but those same unions will not do what it takes to save those jobs they just throw younger employees under the bus and refuse to pay for anything and also a bunch of deadbeats who live off taxpayers through welfare,foodstamps,student loans that they use for thing that were never intended like living on and buying other junk having nothing to do with college,and then the deadbeats who have lived off goverment forever and have brainwashed their children into thinking the taxpayers have to should take care of them while they sit at home on their asses spitting out kids and doing nothing but sucking the life out of the middle class I think welfare for everyone should end today and maybe those deadbeats would take the jobs that are out there and there are plenty do like the pay whaaa tough get to jobs then you lazy bums I have thru my entire life so suck it up stop complaining and get to work you lazy good for nothing leeches
I refinanced my mortgage a few years ago and the settlement clerk got huffy with me because I wanted to take the time to read the stack of documents she put in front of me. She said something like "nobody reads these things". Before making one of the largest financial commitments of ones life you had better read what you are signing and understand what you are agreeing to. I think most people were too lazy to read the documents. Now too many people are claiming they were tricked. Everything was there in black and white if they had taken the time to actually read the documents. Probably couldn't miss the start of Dancing with the Stars.
Kbatta - I understand your frustration. But you're one of the lucky ones. You were able to suck it up, work many jobs as necessary and cut spending to make ends meat. Others were not so lucky. The housing bubble collapsed when average people were coaxed into loans that they couldn't afford by very smart, very cunning bankers who knew damn well what they were doing. Often there were hidden costs and ballooning mortgage payments. Also, any small downturn in the economy causes job losses. Can't pay the mortgage without a job, right? Then the whole thing snowballed. Banks didn't get paid. Unemployed people couldn't spend as much as they used to and demand for goods and services droped causing companies to cut back their work force. The government was unable or unwilling to curb the 'great recession' but that's another story.
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For the first time in my life i feel proud of the american people. Experience from the arab countries proves that you shouldn't give up, no matter how the govenrment is fighting you. A possible victory in america, your victory, will become a victory for all the people all over the world. Wish you strength to continue your struggle. Sollidarity from Greece.
I definitely hope so!! Yay Anti-Flag!
we got to unite on all levels, all cities, all people. in strength in numbers. We are looking strong people
we need to send out a national delegation in the next month, start planning for that, it should be the next step.
discourse, dialogue, communication from the west coast, peace!!!!!
One of demands can be this - to limit by law personal wealth to a sum of lifetime medium wages. I think is enough for everyone to live a prosper life. Another one - nobody can make any of the natural resource a private property.
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So what you are suggesting is to punish those that work hard and come up with ideas. There would be no benefit to be the best you can be if there is an artificial ceiling on your earnings so that someone who is more concerned about playing video games than being productive can live the same lifestyle?
No, you get it wrong, I am not suggesting this. You think the only benefit is money? Is a punishment to live a decent life? A lifetime medium wages is a about 2 millions dollars. Is that a punishment? You can not live with this? If the hard working men wants more then, they can contribute to rise the medium wage by productivity. This is social awareness. About people who like spending time playing video games they will never have the same lifestyle. And, more important, they can`t be what a hard working man can be. The satisfaction of a good work and the value of your contribution to the society, is above making money. And above all we must value life, not making money.
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Well, it might mean that "being the best that you can be" would not involve leveling mountains and clear-cutting forests.
This movement is not about ecology, no waitm yes it is, then again maybe it isn't.
I don`t know about what that movement is. I am not an american citizen. And the information about this movement is censored by media. But our life is depending on this destructive behavior. So, again, I think life is most important thing.
Has amyone thought of the economic summit next month and getting some recruits overseas as a sound practical people to indicate the intention of the longevity of this movement, plus provide an example that we are trying to listen and be part of the solution on the basic tenets of american capitalism?
You should add this to the demands: 1, Prosecute banksters for crimes against humanity because they had caused endless pain and many millions had died due to their greed. 2, Transform banking services in interest free public service. You shouls ask a lawyer in your movement to can fill chargesat Hague International Court against banksters for crimes against humanity
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According to the NYCLU, you need a permit for an event with more than 20 people in a city park. Do we have one for Washington Square Park?Hundreds of thousands of protesters over the years have managed to comply with city regulations.
The New York City Liberties Union has an essential guide for us all to read. Know Your Rights: Demonstrating in New York City. http://www.nyclu.org/content/know-your-rights-demonstrating-new-york-city
The GA of Manhattan doesn't represent the 99% of the United States of America until citizens from all districts are involved in the process and you provide a concise platform.
What do six continents have to do with the sovereignty and individual of freedoms of American Citizens?
Your "freedoms - America" bullshit is just anoter "Divide and conquer"
Abolish the notion of "country" from your mind, Corp power conquer the world a long time ago by creating country..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule
Sorry but I'll never abolish the notion of Individual liberty. A country is another form of family or tribe.
The movement was international from the very beginning.
Are we trying to restore our Republic or are we trying to create a world government?
neither
Then what is this? What is it's purpose? Anarchy? End corporate corruption? How? What is the incentive for the elite? they will beat your ass with the cops they own. Establish a goal. Make legal demands filed with a court of law.
this is called evolution. specifically for us humans at this particular threshold, it is the move from governance to cooperative independence. the idea is to not change up the rules of the game, but the obsolescence of said game. the incentive is survival. plain and simple.
Oh well in that case, fantastic! What a great vague goal!
everyone needs to stop looking for guidance and cooperate already. here lemme help you.
Step 1: create a goal relevant to your experience
Step 2: share your vision with others. you'll find that many other people have the same vision
Step 3: ???
Step 4: PROFIT!
agreed.
raise your own demands and make them heard.
i think bender is pretty cool guy. eh corrects the norps and doesn't afraid of anything.
The GA of Manhattan doesn't represent the 99% of the United States of America until citizens from all districts are involved in the process and you provide a concise platform.
Start your own GA. They are everywhere.
Block by block from Wall Street all the way to where I am -- Occupy Oahu! :3 The 99% is everywhere!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Oahu/263995050300799
has anyone thought about demanding an article five convention to reform the constitution? it would be a new constitutional convention that could bring about a modernization of our democracy to make it as responsive as parliamentary democracies, constitutionally guarantee a better campaign finance system, etc.
edit: link to wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution
Yes. This is the best explanation of corruption in congress and our need for a constitutional convention that I've yet heard-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk
Make it say whatever you want. Nobody is interested in enforcing the articles we already have. Who cares?!
What constitutional reforms would be reasonable/realistic to rectify the winner-takes all, defacto two party system resulting in inherent gridlock and mere flip flopping between administrations? The parliamentary system with representational seats in Germany for example allows space for meaningful alternative parties, ie. green party. If we can agree that the financial system-- how it is regulated (or not)-- is secondary to the primary political system which must oversee such matters...maybe focusing on political structural change for more democratic representation is the true root cause issue the movement should focus on.
i disagree. money out of politics is where it begins. if this leads to restructuring of government ... great. But you also need to restructure the economy to bring about equity and unleash the potential of the american workforce to solve our problems - the energy crisis for example.
But focusing on national politics alone won't get us there. The Occupy movement is growing naturally. The GA's are a good learning ground for practicing at governing ourselves. Thats the beauty of anarchist movements. People gain skills at self-determination so that if the revolution is successful they can apply them to the new government. But right now its more important to have a successful movement - build enough momentum so that it can't be stopped - than to worry about what we should ask for from the powers that be once they've told us that we have won.
I think we might agree in principle, just a difference in tactics perhaps. I completely agree that getting money out of politics is paramount, but I'd define the nature of the intervention required as inherently legislative (ie. controls on PAC donations, fixed amounts for campaigns, guaranteed equal air space for public messages, regulation of the financial industry) to equal the playing field. While perhaps shear public pressure - shaming the worst offenders and encouraging the good corporate citizens- may work around the margins, I think we need to rewrite the rules of the game. I work in the climate arena as an example and many of the early adopters of leadership positions say behind closed doors they'd like to see regulation to force their competitors to also make longer term investments and internalize some of the environmental and social costs of doing business. So again, we need a legal (not even political) answer to a structural financial problem. What else would you suggest?
While the solutions that you suggest sound good (and I agree with them) the problem I have with your approach is that it is very specific. When you have a movement like this it is best to simply focus on what the problems are and express them in the simplist way. That motivates people to do something about it in many respects because they understand it and in others it enables the movement to be more inclusive and open to ideas.
Simplicity is key. And it is powerful. And flexible.
We are after all not even close to the point of writing legislation anyway, and who knows what more ideas may come to the table. The more proscriptive the demands of the movement seem at this stage the less room there apears to be for others to participate and offer their own ideas.
This could also lead to alienating the populist movements on the right, and thus prevent this movement from being a true 99% movement.
Anyway.. those are my thoughts.
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somewhat true...
http://thedailycougar.com/2011/10/08/occupy-wall-street-movement-lacks-substance/
We need to elect delegates from all over the country, convene and VOTE on any platform or list of demands. You have no credibility if you do not elect delegates from all over the country to VOTE on the demands or you are nothing but a Committee of Public Security ior Star Chamber. We can organize and elect delegates from each Congressional district in a matter of months. Don't blow this by making decisions in a small group-that is what we are fighting against! Here is a sample democratic plan:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
im pretty sure representative governing is something were moving away from. decisions aren't made from a small group, they are made from THE group. if you want a say in what goes on, you open your mouth; uknow, democracy.
So what are you proposing that millions of people directly vote on every decision? Direct Democracy has been tried and it does not work because it is too unwieldily. Representative democracy works if your politicians are not corrupted by money like we have today. Also, you will never get the majority of the People to give up the constitution. What this webpage suggests is recreating what was done at the founding of this Republic.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
The movement we are witnessing is based on the individual taking their power back. the constitution is not the basis of american ideology, freedom is. and what is freedom. freedom is choice, an individuals power to choose is the very root of the constitution, as well as the essence of the human experience, it is what distinguishes us from all other life on this planet. we give away our power of choice when we choose someone to represent us, to speak for us. true democracy has been unattainable in the past because we weren't ready for it. we have the willpower now, we have the internet, we have the collective experience of our history that shows us why representative governing can not work. its true, we have strayed from the intentions our founding fathers have implemented, but evolution insists procreation, not re-creation.
what you describe will lead to a second civil war
i respectfully disagree. i like to think that we have developed a little more understanding and willingness to work it out than our previous generations had. there will be those who dont want to let go of the old paradigm and will cling to it violently, thats perfectly natural. there will not be war though
If history teaches us anything, it's that every generation which assumes it is somehow wiser and more understanding than the generations preceding it is bound to make even more profound and awful mistakes.
Human nature is what it is. We're not better than those that came before us and, with all due respect, anyone who would state otherwise simply has not had much experience in life. When you count on human nature being somehow better than it was in times past as the key to your solutions you will find yourself sorely disappointed when you reap the results. Instead, the best solutions are systematic in their structure and take human tendencies into consideration, building in safeguards and balances to prevent the damage that individuals can do.
Flawed as it might be, representative democracy has worked far better than all the other systems that have been tried throughout history. Direct democracy invariably devolves into tyranny because there are times where quick decisions are needed and direct democracy simply does not lend itself to that. The people then empower an individual or a group of individuals to make those particular decisions on their behalves. Incidentally, those decisions tend to be the very ones upon which the very direction of society itself hinges.
By natural law, each successive generation IS wiser and more understanding than the previous one by having inherited all previous generations experiences plus their own, whether that generation incorporates those past experiences into their reality is up to them, and we're pretty bad at it these days so i see where you're coming from. And for the record i never used the word "better"; you did.
When you say "history" u probably mean the history of western culture of the last few thousand years, as that's the only history we're really taught these days. This "history" only offers societal systems based on patriarchy, which dosen't have as much to do with the male sex as it does with the linear, power-hungry, hierarchical pyramid structure that male energy exemplifies. Now, i'm not saying patriarchy dosen't have it's place, i'm just saying it's overstepped it's boundary. with that in mind, consider matriarchy, which most tribal nations have employed as well as all species on this earth for all of history. It's based on nature itself. this paradigm holds a balance of masculine and feminine ideals. Community, cooperation, balance, equality, this is the basis of democracy, and as such, democracy cannot function properly in a patriarchal society. our problem is much more fundamental than the "-isms" our societal thinkers are always bickering about. "communism this" or "socialism that"; it's all the same in essence. point is, hierarchy is not necessary, organization is. we need representation, but not through one person. Representative democracy has been the best model so far because it incorporates the most matriarchal ideals of any western system thus far. but at such a critical time on earth its irresponsible for us to shoot for "ehh decent" when we need "much better!" Dig?
This is exciting!
One clear objective Almost all successful protests have put forward one single, tangible goal to focus on. While I agree with the demands being made and the direction being taken as necessary for our survival, I suggest picking one major and clearly accomplish-able demand to present. Something that can be considered, polled and enacted. Never losing sight of the entire list and ultimate goal, give them a picture of complete focus and solidarity on a single target. When that is achieved, move to the next one until the war is won. Please consider this. I read many posts and stories and repeatedly see people unsure of what needs to happen next. Give them one powerful thing to get behind and push into reality.
Virtually all the varied interests would benefit from a system where the influence of money is not involved. Only a government devoid of the corrupting influence of money can control the unregulated greed of Wall Street. Since the Supreme Court has ruled corporations have unfettered access to our political election process, it will take a Constitutional amendment to eliminate the influence of money in the election cycle. If all congress, senate and presidential elections were fully funded by tax payer dollars, money would no longer be the deciding factor. With money removed, including personal fortunes, third parties would have a chance of fielding viable candidates. All issues from green policies to human rights would be easier to advance when we don't have to fight the influence of corporate dollars. Even our elected politicians would benefit by not having to pander to corporate contributors for their election funds. Without the distraction of raising money for the next election, they would be able to do a better job of the people's business.
100% agree. But how can i check if my representative is not corrupt? I still believe that we need direct checking of our representatives. Every vote of my representative should be AT LEAST compared with the vote of his/her constituency. Obviously, writing a law is not an amateurish process but voting for it should be done by people - with internet it is a cheap process.
Thomas Jefferson said it best "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." I agree it is our duty to stay informed as to how our elected officials represent us. Having said that the US is not a true democracy as Jefferson envisioned. We function as a republic with our elected officials representing us. I might buy in to the internet voting if I had evidence that the population as a whole were well informed on the issues they would be voting on. History has shown that the populace didn't always have the best intentions, citing slavery and denying women the right to vote. There are those rare occasions when the people's representative went against the wishes of the majority and history proved them right.
A unified demand of ending the disease of corporatism would invariably cover all the demands.
I completely agree. Can we, The 99%, choose one idea that we can all agree on? I'm in Arkansas. Although I know that many of my fellow Arkansans are with us; more need to be spoken for with a clear, simple message. I vote for taking the money out of politics.
Start a GA in your area and discuss this there. Each region will have different issues to address.
The point however for this movement is revolution. Not to simply name one request for the powers that be to listen to and then go back to the status quo.
how can we put forth one demand when so many aspects of our society require attention; just pick a reason that applies to you.
Exactly. Pick your own problem and discuss it with others around you.
It's coming.
we are growing indeed! solidarity from your neighbor CT. Hartford and New Haven are now occupied! interested in a good read?: http://www.realitysandwich.com/occupy_wall_street_no_demand_big_enough
Thanks for the link. It is more than a good read it is GREAT! It needs it's own post here....I will do it now.
Just came back from Occupy Hartford. A small but determined group, not allowed to have tents, a park with no real police protection and... rats!
These people are heroes. You are all heroes. Thank you and I stand with you.
no tents!? unfortunate, but we'll make do. i havent been to hartford yet, but im planning on checking out new haven this weekend hopefully. they'll both get considerably larger once they're established more.
Things are improving, and I believe tents will go up.
I am so looking forward to this event. I want to get in on the ground floor. If there is anything I can do,contact me. You have my email. I will gladly catch a bus to NYC. Ive been to the protest in DC. I will support you 100%. This is LONG overdue.MiMiA.
you are ill-informed about the issues. What are the demands of OWS?
more than anything, I think ppl like protesting. I was at ground zero the night Osama bin Laden died. Filled with college kids and hipsters just looking for a good time, and a reason to chant and yell.
Same thing is going on here. Most people don't know who/what/where/when/why/how of it. It's just the thing to do a the moment, and it will pass like Snooki and Pet Rocks
You are ill informed about protest.
I'm sorry that you feel so negatively about this. I feel hopeful for once and it's a great feeling.
I have to say havent you listened to the rationale as to why clear demands have not been issued. Return to the Arab spring. The demands were not super clear in any of those nations at first. People were just coming together to demand change in their respective governments. In those protests many different groups came together. It wasn't liberals, conservatives, so on... It was all of them. I hail from conservative philosophy and support these protests. I own my own company and support these Americans. I propose that election laws change to no longer allow any corporate or personal donations to any candadite. How about they get a set amount of cash to run with and thats it. Also this amount is extended to the other parties, not just the democrats and republicans. Last change tax code to a flat tax. No more write-offs for anybody.... wealthy or poor...Then we all can pay equally into the system
Adam owns 10 grocery stores and made $20,000,000 in income in 2010. Zachary works at McDonalds and made $25,000 in 2010. We will make the assumption that both Adam and Zachary work equally as hard at what they do, and in fact work the same amount of hours.
In 2010, Adam paid $6,968,823 in taxes while Zachary paid $548 in taxes. They both live in the same town, drive the same tax funded roads, mail their postcards in the same post office, and are protected by the same police force.
$6,968,823 versus $548
Fair?
Best thoughts on this site. If we had a flat tax with no write offs, there would be none of this class warfare. Everyone pays based on what they earn. We are in this together. And each candidate receives the same amount of money to run. It could change based on whether it is local, state or national elections. Minimizes political influence. I have one other suggestion, our elected representatives have the same helth care the average citizen is required to have. These are probably far too practical to be implemented.
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Stop. You are a naysayer. We don't need negative imput. Thanks for serving your country. I and my daughter did the same.
Christianity: The Biggest Hoax Ever Perpetrated on Mankind
(Did I not command you, O Children of Adam, that you should not worship Shaitan (Satan). Verily, he is a plain enemy to you.)
Christians must ask themselves; “If Jesus is god, then why don’t the Children of Israel worship him?” They are the authors of the Bible; could it be the Jews know what their Christian slaves know not, that the Bible is a forgery and the biggest hoax perpetrated on mankind in the annuals of history? Allah reveals this to be the case in the following Verse of the Qur’an.
(Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, “This is from Allah, to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn (thereby).)
Surely, if Jesus was Allah’s son, the Jew’s would worship him, but they don’t and this should be a red flag to Christians, but they don’t appear alarmed over this blaring contradiction. Allah reveals the Jew’s motive for lying about Jesus in the following Verses of the Qur’an.
(And they set up rivals to Allah, to mislead [men] from His Path! Say: “Enjoy [your brief life]! But certainly, your destination is the [Hell] Fire!”)
(He [Isa-Jesus] was not more than a slave. We granted Our Favour to him, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel [i.e. his creation without a father].)
What do the Jews worship if they don’t worship the nearly-naked, corpse-god hanging off of two sticks they set up for their Christian slaves to worship? The Jews worship Israel aka Satan, their father. Christian’s say the Jew’s are God’s “Chosen People”, well what were the Jew’s chosen for? The Jew’s were “Chosen” to return back to Zion aka Hell-fire, from which they came. I advise Christian’s to pay heed to Allah’s Warning in the following Verse of the Qur’an.
(And indeed We have sent down to you manifest Ayat [these Verses of the Qur’an which inform in detail about the news of the Jews and their secret intentions, etc], and none disbelieve in them but Al Fasiqun [those who rebel against Allah’s Command]).
If Christians obeyed the following Commandments, they would be Muslims instead of corpse-eating, blood-drinking ghouls destined for the Hell-fire.
Be forewarned! Slandering the Prophet Muhammad {pbuh} with the much-repeated and Jew-invented lie, which I won’t repeat, will not change the fact that Jesus was only a Messenger of Allah and not his son, nor will slandering him, alter the truth that Christians are corpse-eating, blood-drinking, zombie slaves of their vertical pig Jew masters. Slandering the Prophet {pbuh} will only add torment upon torment to your punishment in the Hell-fire. If you corpse-eaters are so concerned about sexually abused children, you should act upon a dire situation already in progress by rescuing those sexually-abused Altar Boys from those Pedophile Predator Priests who rape boy children with impunity in the Catholic Coven, instead of slandering the Prophet {pbuh}. The following Verse of the Qur’an reveals that Christian’s will conclude their stupidity on the Day of Resurrection. (And they will say: “Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!”).
([This is the] Revelation sent down from the Lord of the Alamin [mankind, jinn and all that exists].)
([He is Allah] Owner of High Ranks and Degrees, the Owner of the Throne. He sends the revelation by His Command to any of His slaves He wills, that he (the person who receives revelation) may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting [i.e. the Day of Resurrection].
(And to warn those [Jews, Christians, and pagans] who say, “Allah has begotten a son [or offspring or children].”)
(No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths [i.e. He begot sons and daughters]. They utter nothing but a lie.)
(Your Ilah [God] is One Ilah [God-Allah, none has the right to be worshipped but He])
(“And indeed, We created man from dried [sounding] clay of altered mud. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.”).
(And I have created the jinn and men only to worship Me).
(And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.”)
Jameela Messenger of Allah & Defender of Islam 9 October 2011
I understand and accept that Muhammad is the messenger of Islam; the thing that bothers me is that Islam says Isa (Jesus) was not more important in Allah's eyes than any of the ohter prophets; yet he is the one who will be coming back to help the Jews overcome their enslavement to the dajjal (anti-Christ) who will deceive them and be sitting in their Temple in Jerusalem as their Leader; and he will help the Muslims also. Allah is sending Jesus back to help all the believing people of the world, this is more power and reward than was given to any of the other messengers, prophets. This to me means he set him above the others because he will be the one fighting the dajjal, he will be leading the jihad, it will be by Allah's dispensation that he slays the dajjal, the same way it is now, fighters know they do not win any battles, Allah wins the battles, the fighters are just the tools by which he does that. Some are martyred, some are not, yet it is true, when it is your time to die, even if you stay home, you will be taken. Life and death rest in the hands of God.
So that is one of my conflicts, none of the other prophets are not going to be raised to do more jihad against the anti-Christ, only Isa (Jesus). And you say no other religion will be accepted, yet the Quran says in many places I cited previously it says some Jews, Sabians, Christians will have no fear or regret and will be rewarded on the day of Judgement. Maybe not many, but some will be. If that is true, and Quran does not have lies in it, then it is obedience to his laws that are the most important thing, because he will accept these people even though they are not Muslims. Look at what Muhammad went thru with the Quraish, there were two sects. Now there are 73. Will those who end up in a false sect be accepted? I know where the true sect is, and I think you do too.
RE: Eric Cantor Guilty of Treason
November 14, 2010
US Department of Justice Attn: Atty. Gen. Eric Holder 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20530-0001
Greetings Mr. Holder,
It has come to my attention that you might be unaware of the definition of treason; the definition of treason is as follows: “…a violation of allegiance to one’s sovereign or to one’s state and impairs the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance…” Now that you are aware of the crime Rep. Eric Cantor committed when he met with the notorious war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu on 11/10/10 and pledged his allegiance to Israel with the following treasonous statement: “…the new Republican majority will serve as a check on the Obama administration…”; why has the DOJ remained silent on Rep. Eric Cantor’s well-documented crime of treason against America and the American people he was elected to represent?
As the Last American Patriot, I am due an explanation as to why Rep. Eric Cantor was allowed to pledge his allegiance to the illegitimate and hostile Zionist regime, to the detriment of the American President and America’s sovereignty without any consequences? Rep. Eric Cantor’s treachery is not against the hated President, Barack Obama, Eric Cantor‘s treachery is against the American people and the Office of the President, as it does not matter who the sitting president is. The Jew’s have not changed their modus operandi since the beginning of time; they enslave the populations they pretend to befriend, until the unfortunate “Friends of Israel”, discover they are not friends of Israel, but slaves of Israel aka Satan. There were no Pogroms against the Jew’s, only Slave Rebellions, uprisings against the Jew’s tyrannical, oppressive, greedy and sadistic rule. The Americans have embraced their enslavement, while the great humanitarian Mr. Adolf Hitler rejected it, just as Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are rejecting it, these groups are the legitimate “resistance” against the slavery stupid Americans openly embraced.
The Jew’s have looted the wealth of America during Wall Street collapse of 2008, ongoing mortgage foreclosures and their excessive “Jew” tax (paying the Jew’s $200,000.00 in interest on a $150,000.00 home); but Christian slaves are happy because their greedy Jew Masters have told them this excessive and oppressive tax is called “Capitalism”, which is a privilege of living in a democracy under the pretense of “Judeo Christian Values” aka Jew’s enslavement of Christians. The Jew’s throughout history have triggered unjust wars, enslaved the population by infiltrating governments and imposing oppressive laws, overthrown governments and remained behind the scene as they do today. Throughout history the Jew’s have been the historians, owners and controllers of the media and press; which enables them to control the information their slaves have access to and more importantly, to obscure their satanic origins. The Jews are so evil the Prophet {PBUH} made the following statement:
“…But for the Jews, meat would not decay…”
For the entire above, I demand the treacherous traitor Rep. Eric Cantor be charged, arrested and prosecuted for the crime of treason and be given the maximum penalty of death, as called for in the U.S. Constitution.
Kind Regards,
Jameela Messenger of Allah & Defender of Islam & the Last American Patriot
Attachment: The Jews are the Jinn Species & Jesus’ Descent & Jesus is Alive
Cc: Assoc. Atty. General, Thomas Perrilli President Barack Obama Vice-President Joe Biden Rep. Eric Cantor Sec. Janet Napolitano James Clapper Dir. Of Office of National Intelligence Mr. Leon Panetta, CIA AIPAC Robert S. Mueller, Director of FBI Pentagon
There is a God, but he's not to be found in any religious doctrine. Islam is as erroneous as Christianity... sorry.
Put aside your dogmas and just be good.
Not true. He gave the guidance to each group via messengers and prophets. Islam was the last guidance sent down any group, it was revealed by Archangel Gabriel to Muhammad, whom God chose to be a prophet to the Arabian people. He gave his laws and guidance to each group, to see who would follow it, maintain it, preserve it and live it and be worthy of being in his kingdom, when he establishes it here on earth. People's miseries here are for purification and striving. People think they are just fighting corporate greed, but there is a more sinister agenda by more evil people going on underneath the greed and other visible problems. The prophecies will come to pass whether people know about them or not. Those who have faith will understand and be able to navigate and survive the disasters that are to come. God still uses the same things he used back in the other days, wind, water, earthquakes, volcanoes, hail, tornadoes, solar flares, magnetic pole reversals triggering extinction events, to wipe out people he deems need to be punished. The banksters will be punished, he forbid usury and the whole financial system is based on it, he will take it down.
All you have are assertions that you make alongside the countless other conflicting assertions made by religious believers around the world. Just because something is written in an old book doesn't make it true in the literal sense, nice as that might sound.
There have been "evil" people since the beginning of time. Lots of religions make the same exact claims that yours does, namely that God or the gods sent wind, water, earthquakes, volcanoes, hail, tornadoes, solar flares, magnetic pole reversals triggering extinction events, and other disasters to wipe out evil. There has never been any independent evidence for these claims. The Bible and the Qur'an are allegorical works that must be understood as such to gain anything from them. They are not histories.
God is not going to save us. What we are dealing with is nothing new under the sun. There have always been and always will be tyrants and selfish people, and things are no worse now than they were in the past (they are arguably better!). There is no "sinister agenda"... just people doing what they've always done.
If you want justice in this world you have to make it yourself. You can't depend on God to save you. It's not that God doesn't care, but rather that the point of all this is to see that we can handle it on our own.
The point is to see if we can handle it on our own? He created everything and everyone, which means it all belongs to him. So if he doesn't agree with what we do, he will tear it all down, as he said he would. The mass extinctions over time were probably due to his displeasure then, and when the pole shift happens, some will say all the deaths are just due to the science of it all, others will know it is his wrath and disgust with the planet.
hey occupy people be responsible for yourself you are pitiful disgrace and without self dignity.
go do something productive instead of yapping.
you are ignorant of the best, natural way for the world to be a better place -- capitalism and freedom.
you have the freedom to succeed and help the world how you want. Leave and go do that
My four grandparents came to this country with nothing but the shirts on their backs. They worked two, sometimes three jobs, to afford a house and food for their children. They put a total of 12 children through school. They did this under the same constitution and capitalistic society as we are in today, at a time where the minimum wage was $1.00 or under per hour.
Why should you expect not to work hard and to do what you need to make a living? Why should you bring down others that have worked hard to go to school and worked hard to make a career for themselves?
The US form of government and our capilatistic society has given Freedom and Liberty to millions of people all over the world. It has allowed people to work hard and bear the fruits of their labor. People have a say through their local forms of government and through their vote, which everyone has no matter their sex, race, religion or social status.
Instead of trying to bring others that have worked hard down, put your energy towards making yourself a better person, working hard, voting for what you believe and making this world a better place.
http://universallivingwage.org/ Go to the ULW: City/State tab on the left side, look up your city and state. The disparities that exist today in housing costs, job salaries and availability make it impossible for many to pul lthemselves up by their bootstraps as they did back when your grandparents came here. People can't make it, the dollar buys less, the houses are priced too high.
People should have to work hard and do what they need to do to make a living. A society with free handouts simply isn't going to last very long.
No one who is sensible advocates free handouts. If you believe that is what most people on the left want then you've been sold a straw man.
For example, take the minimum wage. Economics teaches us that, all things considered equal, price is determined around the area where supply and demand meet. Seems fair and straightforward enough, right? The problem, however, is that in real life things are never equal -- there are disparities in bargaining positions as well as in the leverage possessed by the parties involved.
The employer generally has a pool of people from whom he can hire to choose while the worker has relatively few choices regarding work. The employer isn't going to starve or lose the roof over his head if he doesn't hire a particular individual, while the worker faces that very situation should he not get a job. The employer tends to be far better informed regarding the economic particulars of his industry than the worker could hope to be. These factors alone suggest that the worker is going to be hired for far less than straightforward supply and demand would dictate -- meanwhile, the value of what he produces will far outstrip that which he is going to be paid.
Minimum wage, then, is a matter of forcing the hands of employers into paying workers a greater portion of the full value for their labor.
Speaking as a socialist, I don't really want to bring anyone "down" -- I want to bring the lowest people in society up. Our budgetary problems aren't going to be solved by taxing the daylights out of the rich. Instead, I advocate raising taxes so that we can fund programs to help people get into the middle class -- more people in the middle class means more people who can afford to pay taxes, relieving the burden on everyone else.
It worked extremely well for this country after World War II.
My four grandparents came to this country with nothing but the shirts on their backs. They worked two, sometimes three jobs, to afford a house and food for their children. They put a total of 12 children through school. They did this under the same constitution and capitalistic society as we are in today, at a time where the minimum wage was $1.00 or under per hour.
Why should you expect not to work hard and to do what you need to make a living? Why should you bring down others that have worked hard to go to school and worked hard to make a career for themselves?
The US form of government and our capilatistic society has given Freedom and Liberty to millions of people all over the world. It has allowed people to work hard and bear the fruits of their labor. People have a say through their local forms of government and through their vote, which everyone has no matter their sex, race, religion or social status.
Instead of trying to bring others that have worked hard down, put your energy towards making yourself a better person, working hard, voting for what you believe and making this world a better place.
Hard work and determination lead to prosperity. Blaming successful businesses for your circumstances is utterly pathetic. The decisions that YOU make determine the course of your life, not 'Corporate Greed' or whatever the latest liberal catch phrase is today. You are not the "99%". The Americans that work hard to support their families are the 99%. You are, simply put, ignorant.
Remember when you all were kids, and you drove by those huge ass mansions and you asked your parents why the fuck those people get those fancy ass houses, and why you had to live literally in its shadow? They probably gave you some bullshit about working hard, America, take what god gives you, I don't know, you fill in the blank. My point is, that's not a childish observation. That's seeing something for the first time, without any bullshit attached, for the truly fucking disgusting thing it is. There really only is one problem, and that is that there is a stupidly rich, and there is a stupidly poor. Has been for a long time. What the fuck kind of plan is that for a society?
Well, I am reading in news that people (including protesters) are confused what this movement is all about.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/occupy-wall-street-protests-spread-country-clear-unified/story?id=14696466
And your site also do not explain aim and meaning of 'occupy wall street'. Rest of world is seeing that americans are having just fun on streets.
I just can't wait for when it's time to take Prospect and Central parks :3
OccupyMN is officially rolling. Our Minneapolis PD have been very cool thus far. We're in for the long haul.
Americans are the Slaves of the Jews
Jew’s live the American Reality, while their Christian slaves live the American Dream; the definition of dream is: a state of abstraction and trance. Over 300 million Americans aspire and desire to live in a state of abstraction and trance. The American Dream is home ownership and how is paying your greedy Jew masters $200,000.00 in interest on a $150,000.00 home a dream? It is not, it is: an event that is extremely distressing, which is the definition of Nightmare. The American State of Abstraction & Trance aka Dream is the mechanism that facilitated the Jew’s enslavement of Americans; as usury is a Jew-invented and Jew-owned evil.
The American State of Abstraction & Trance is the MATRIX the evil Jew’s created for their Christian slaves to exist in. Just as the American Dream is an abstract fantasy and illusion; so is Christianity when you peel away the layers of deceit. Christian’s exist in a Jew-induced Trance, which is the result of them disobeying Allah and eating cursed Jews {swine-flesh permeated with parasitic worms which control the diseased minds of their Christian slaves}, feasting on Jew-god corpse {Jesus}, drinking Jew-god blood under the pretense of Holy Communion and the invocation of Satan by lighting candles; as Satan, like the Jew’s, were created from the smokeless flame of fire; these are all the activities of a cult; the Cult of Christianity.
American journalists, Helen Thomas and Rick Sanchez were terminated from their jobs for speaking the truth about the Jew’s. Cynthia McKinney lost her re-election bid because she spoke the truth about the Jew’s sadistic and oppressive enslavement of the Palestinians. A Muslim student group was suspended from UC Irvine for protesting the illegal Zionist Regime’s apartheid system. Let it be known! Speaking out against your evil JINN aka Jew Masters is punishable by lost of livelihood. The definition of freedom is: the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints. These tip-of-the-iceberg episodes only prove that freedom in America is but an abstract illusion of such; just as the American Dream and Christianity are illusions. This is the Jew-invented Matrix Americans want to maintain and spread in the ME under the guise of Democracy.
Islam is NOT a religion of peace, as violence is necessary to repel the Jew’s attempt to force Muslims to eat Jew-god corpse and drink Jew-god blood under the guise of “Holy” Communion and enslave Muslims in the same oppressive manner the Jew’s have enslaved Americans. GO DIE IN IRAN you corpse-eating, ass-wipes of the Jews you worship, revere, finance and give your worthless lives for. You Christian savages should pressure your evil, nigga president into attacking Iran, so the brave and fearless Iranian Muslim Warriors can send you to your partially-eaten and bled-out Jew corpse you call god.
I advise you corpse-eating Christian’s who will murder Jesus after his Resurrection for the sole purpose of bleeding him out to bathe in his blood; to reconsider your blasphemous and diabolical worship of a DEAD Jew aka jinn and read the Qur’an and discover the Jew’s are the JINN and Israel is not a country; Israel is Satan and the Jew’s patriarch. Don’t read the Koran, as the Koran is a crazy book written by crazed Jews in an attempt to portray Muslims to be the homicidal maniacs the Jew’s have proven themselves to be. On the Day of Resurrection, the cannibals known as Christians will only wish they had been Muslims in the life of this world, as they will learn on this Day; Islam is the only religion Allah will accept from his slaves to gain entry into Paradise. I know you insane Christian ghouls will laugh, but you are the ones living in a state of abstraction and trance.
Long live the memory of Sheikh OSAMA BIN LADEN, the brave and fearless Muslim Warrior who brought the Shit pile aka America to her bankrupt, Jew-worshipping knees. Allah is great, Allah is alive, but the Christian’s god is only a defeated, bloodied, battered, partially-eaten and bled-out, murdered Jew, nailed to two fuckin sticks.
Jameela Messenger of Allah & Defender of Islam
Jameela, the Quran acknowledges there is one upright sect of Jews, one of Christians and one of Muslims. Al Baqarah 2:62 "Surely, the believers and the Jews, Nazareans and the Sabians whoever believes in God and the Last Day, and whomever does right shall have his reward with his Lord and will neither have fera nor regret." Surah 94 warns people about believing that they will exclusively reside in the mansions in jannah. It was referring to disbelievers trying to tell Muslims they were chosen and they were the only ones to inherit the kingdom. It applies to everyone. Al Baqarah Surahs 135-137 instruct on what you tell those who question your faith. Tell them, you follow the way of Abraham, and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and that which was given to Moses, and Isa (Jesus), and to all the other prophets of the Lord, "we make no distinction among them, and we submit to HIM. Originally mankind belonged to ONE community, surah 213, but they differefed amongst themselves, creating sects and other religions. Surah 256, "there must be no compulsion in the amtter of faith", I am sure you have heard this before Jameela, "Hold firmly together to the rope of God, be not divided among yourselves...) (Surah 103 from Al Imran, 3:103). What Muslims and anyone else who is afflicted suffers is is with his permission. (Al Imran Surah 166 so that he may distinguish the faithful), He will not leave the believers in the state they are in until he has sifted the evil from the good (surah 179 al Imran). Surah 199 tells you there are people of the Book, some who believe in God and what has been revealed to you, and they will have reward with their Lord. Since there is only ONE God, they will be getting reward from YOUR God, and he has not required them to become Muslims to receive that. It is clearly commanded "there must be no compulsion in religion" that means you cannot force someone to become a Muslim, they may be upright in God's eyes following the guidance given to the prophets and apostles of their ancestors. You cannot even say all Jews will be going to hell, Islam negates that, it tells you there will be 71 false sects of Jews, but one true sect, 72 false sects of Christians, but one true sect, 73 false sects in Islam, but one true sect. Again in Al Maidah Surah 69 reiterates, the Jews, Sabians, Christians, in fact any one who believes in God, and the Last Day and performs good deeds will have nothing to fear or regret". God has not said he is sending all the Jews to hell. You say so, and you are wrong. There is one sect that is following the guidance given to them. Yes I know Surah 82 says the Jews and Christians are excessive in hatred of Muslims. People have to realize there is one correct sect among ALL those religions. You need to read your Quran. Al Anfal Sura 61: Regarding infidels, "if they are inclined to peace, make peace with them, and have trust in God'. Surah 129 from Al Taubah is the best one in the entire Quran. All peoples will be tried and punished before and on qiyyam.
http://www.islaam.org/Al_Mahdi/major_signs.htm
http://www.muslimaccess.com/ebooks/signs_of_qiyamah.asp
Even the Ka'ba will be destroyed, this is in the prophecy. The Injeel tells the lands as lasting inheritances for the tribes, Chapter 47 and 48, the Tribe of Benjamin inherits Jerusalem, it says so right there in the Injeel. You know where they migrated to, don't you? Afghanistan. The Bani Israel tribe migrated to Kashmir, and later became deobondis. I'm sure you know what happens from the land of Khorasan. So think about that, think about when Isa comes to the Central Masjid in Damascaus, and there are 800 believing men and 400 women who join him on his journey to Al Quds. Everything happening now, will lead up to that. To sow seeds of hatred now is not necessary. There is one God, he is the same God for all the people. Jihad is complicated and many are not doing it right. No one can force their religion on others, the Quran forbids this, let there be no compulsion in relgion. In 630 Muhammad received Najran Christians from Yemen. He allowed them to use the masjids for prayers. He also invited the Jews of Madinah to a religious dialogue. They both rejected the call to Islam. He did not force them. He send Abu Ubaydah ibn al Jarrah, one man back to Yemen with the Christian delegation. It was Abu Jarrah who converted the whole countryof Yemen to Islam. Not by force, by knowledge. The last thing I want to say to you for now is this "Surah 80 from Bani Israel: Oh Lord, let my entry be with honor, and let my exit be with honor, and grant me power from you, which would help sustain me". I'm sure you have heard that also.
Please don't let this movement be taken over by the Democrats in the same way the Tea Party let themselves be co-opted by the Republicans. Both parties SUCK. They are both corrupt and in the back pocket of the corporate media and banks.
I support the OWS movement because I'm against the big banks and multinational corporations from using our government as a tool to consolidate the peoples wealth into fewer and fewer hands - while CNN, FOX, and the rest of the corporate media cover it up!
Because I believe in the free market system, I must oppose this fascist system where the government bails out certain companies because they are all part of the same gang of criminals. We need to get rid of this oligarchy. www.whatreallyhappened.com
100% agree - and what is the Tea Party now? Just the guys hunting for the same corporate money as all guys before. And why? Simply because corporation have the money and lobbyists. Can law stop that crime - nah .. Answer: we need direct checking of our representatives. Every vote of my representative should be AT LEAST compared with the vote of his/her constituency. Obviously, writing a law is not an amateurish process but voting for it should be done by people - with internet it is a cheap process. So corps would need to buy much more people - would be too expensive :-)
to ms3000: as always in revolutions there is a provocateur person who is trying to manipulate and calm people. Him, the ms3000 is one of those. He posted: "you want too much too fast and it will lead to bloodshed and failure". What do you mean you want too much? is it too much when people need a job and food? is it too much asking for freedom? is it too much to stop your greedy friends in wallstreet and fed?
THAT'S REVOLUTION, go on boys and girls. A friend from Greece