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Forum Post: Question ? Tell me precisely how the 1% has stopped you from achieving your dream.

Posted 7 years ago on Dec. 20, 2011, 10:52 p.m. EST by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

No generalizations about "society" etc. Personal accounts only.

587 Comments

587 Comments


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[-] 12 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Nice try. Deflect the conversation to personal responsibility and shift it away from the corrupt system. Here's my personal account: Go To Hell!

The Libertarian test: Do you absolutely believe poverty to be a result of individual choice, and society plays no role, simple yes or no please?

[-] 0 points by kiddclass101 (19) from New York, NY 7 years ago

This content is user submitted and not an official statement

http://unoccupywallstreet.zxq.net/HowToStop.html

WHAT FOOLS !!!

HowToStop

They're main source of communication is http://occupywallst.org/, from there they communicate events and strategies via the forum http://occupywallst.org/forum/

The best way to stop the flow of communication is to post absolute nonsense on the forum.

Do not directly get into arguements with members on the forum or use hurtful language or pornographic content on their forum.

Examples of good nonsense posts: http://occupywallst.org/forum/now-hiring/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-not-occupy-the-north-pole/

http://occupywallst.org/forum/monday-night-football-watch-atlanta-falcons-vs-new/

They do not moderate their forum, this tactic will easily yield a 100% rate and will disrupt their communication.

[-] 0 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

answer - yes

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

reply - communism or socialism or any other -ism should be fine by you then, seeing as society plays no role in determining individual success or failure

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

no - under communism & socialism your choices and opportunity to act freely are severely limited. Therefore - you are subject to someone elses control. People free to choose do best by the most part. Of course there is always an underclass in any system.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

First, you answered my question no.

now - you admit, oh yes...of course...the social system plays a role in creating poverty....everybody knows that.

You can't have it both ways.

Now, that we've determined you are two-faced. What else would you wish to add?

[-] 0 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

it doesn't create povery - poverty is a bi product of any system. and again way off topic. how has the 1% prevented YOU personally from succeeding? Last chance

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

No, I'm right on topic. All this post amounts to is a smokescreen to deflect the conversation away from a corrupt system that has filtered money to the few at the expense of the many. The amount of poverty currently being experienced is a direct result of the greed on Wall Street, the collusion of big business and government, corporations putting profits before people, and a taxation system that allows millionaires to pay less taxes than their secretaries. You can tell me I'm personal dog crap and blame it on me until the cows come home. But it won't change the fact that you are a libertarian idiot defending the 1%. Note: I do exclude any of the real patriots who insist on not being coddled by our reverse welfare tax system that you defend so heartily.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

One last time.

They raised the price of everything, while lowering the value of labor.

Plus, they never add value and blur the realities of government.

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

and again - not answering the queston as how the 1% are holding you back personally.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

Their raising the price of everything has, and still is holding me back.

Their lowering of the value of labor, has also affected and effected me.

Personally.

The lies their propaganda machines tell of my government, is holding the entire country back.

That's the reality. Do you prefer metaphor?

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

it's a conspiracy !

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 7 years ago

you are confusing Communism & Socialism with a Dictatorship. There is no Ism that limits your choices. There are Rich people who hog all the money, and the rest of us who just try to get by.

And, not for nothing, our constitution says that all men are created equal! There is no underclass (to be exploited) in America except in the minds of the Republican Party, and the Elites they serve.

That is how the 1% steals the 99%'s dreams. You want to know what the 1% has done to the American Dream??? They have downsized it, outsourced it, laid it off, fired it, and locked it out.

They have used their money to steal elections, and change the rules to steal money from the 99% legally, so they can steal even more elections! And they have done it all to depress wages in America, and enrich themselves. That in a nutshell is why everybody and their Grandmother is protesting in the street.

If you can't see that, there is something wrong with you!

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

all men are created equal - that doesn't mean they go through life with the same talents & abilities and those who excel should subsidies those who don't excel. 50% in combined taxes - is that not enough?

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 7 years ago

First of all nobody is paying 50% in Taxes! It's more like 15%. If you pay more than that, you should fire your accountant!

Secondly if people were judged by their talents and abilities those who are on the top now would be cleaning toilets, and those who are now at the bottom would be making all the money.

No my friend it takes no talent or ability to be born Rich. Which is the only talent or ability most Rich folks have. You have to hit the Lottery (Where is the Talent or ability in that!) or earn a Sports contract to become a millionaire these days.

And, not for nothing, you have to be some kind Facist to think that your tax dollars all go to subsidizing some one who doesn't deserve it. I'm sure you have no problem subsidizing the Military, and keeping the Wars going, and that cost way more than feeding all the Welfare Mothers in this country.

So get off your high horse pal and start putting the welfare of your Country and your Countrymen above your own.

Lastly, a recent study showed that the best rate of taxes on the Rich to balance incentives to work, and overall prosperity is about 70% So, no, 50% aint enough in my book.

The Rich have too much, and they don't know what to do with it.

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

FED top rate 36%, top rate in NY is 9%, NYC top rate 5%, plus payroll tax 7.5%, property tax ? sales tax 8.5%

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 7 years ago

State & Local Taxes are all deductable from your federal tax. And, I say again, you have to have a terrible accountant to pay the top rate.

Trying to lie to me is one thing, lying to yourself is quite another, but believing your own lie is just tragic.

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

so what are you saying ?

[-] 1 points by lgarz (287) from New York, NY 7 years ago

I'm saying that your Republican argument is full of hot air that signifys nothing!

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 7 years ago

you are confusing society with the political system.....the society in China is much different that the society in Russia, or Cuba....just as the society in the US is different than in Europe or Australia......

Try and get your terms right and have a discussion on an intellectual level....huh?

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Human beings, we all are human beings...is that beyond your comprehension.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 7 years ago

hahaha....tell me, what's that supposed to mean?

Hitler, Gengis Khan, Mao, Stalin, Vlad the Impaler......they were all "human beings" too

what's your point?

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

so....it was beyond your comprehension.

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 7 years ago

no, I'm trying to get your perspective.....

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

It was a very simple indisputable fact, there is no perspective to get...

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 7 years ago

in the context of the post you were commenting on there is obviously a perspective.......we are all mammals, Primates, and hominids too....but what does that have to do with anything.....

Being human doesn't really mean much in the greater scheme of the natural system.....without effort being human means nothing in reference to reward or compensation....or to the political or societal system...

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

what's with all the white space.....is that what it is like in your mind..

[-] 0 points by slammersworldisback (-217) 7 years ago

yeah...I'm not really sure what caused that.....pretty lame insult, though...I'm sure you can do better.....fools like you are always good at insults....since you have to be, as reasonable discussion is usually beyond your capacity...

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

It wasn't an insult.....I was only wondering out loud....get some perspective. I've tried to have reasonable discussions, but the libertarian philosophy is not based in reason, it is based in the murky laws of nature.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

JC : I'm sorry to say that I clocked this Randian 'running dog' and all round inveterate fool, "sfuco01" very early on but my riposte now lingers right at the bottom of the thread ! So, I'm piggy-backing your post in order to re-post the links I offered to him !!

a) http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/ ;

b) http://www.nomiprins.com/articles/ ;

c) http://www.opensecrets.org/ ;

d) http://michael-hudson.com/ &

e) http://ni4d.us/ ...

The only "Question ?" that the rest of us need ask, is how "precisely" fucso's empty head got so far up his own (x), in the first place ?!!

Merry Xmas 'JC' and here's to your seasonally appropriate initials ;-)

Pacem In Terris ...

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Merry Xmas shadz66. You're the best!

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Thanx 'JC' : You seem to be far from "Jaded" and a good "Citizen" to boot !!! pax et lux ;-)

[-] 0 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Darn it! I presumed telling this guy to go to hell came across very jaded....grumble grumble libertarian crap on crap grumble grumble....this won't do.....excuse me, I have to run now...it is imperative that I go kneel before my altar of cynicism and pray to the gods of cynicism to forgive me for losing my jadedness!!! kjrow jyywl gibberish gibberish (hey, sorry, I don't know any damn Latin - okay, you happy now) :-)

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Errrr ... Yes, if you insist, lol !! paz y luz ... ;-)

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Errrr....are you growling at me? Is that allowed. Hey moderator, shadz66 is growling at me again. lol.....gibberish gibberish...smiley wink face.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Errrrr .. No ! The Only Grrrrowling I'd do is at half-wits like "fucso01" and his ilk !! Now look, his BS forum-post has 360 comments & 'mea culpa' too !!! You sound as though you could do with a cup of seasonal mulled wine et ('in vino veritas') ... {hic!} .. [geddit?] . ~{:-p)

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

A toast to half-wits & a drink to # 361. Hey, I'm starting to get strangely aroused by all this growling...Errr.....Errrr......Errrrr......hic......hic.........in wine is truth.....in beer is sorrow....hic....goddit!...another round to celebrate tiny smiling images. Here my friend, I gift to you for the holidays - a salty pretzel, & (I know you can't eat it, but what the hell, it's the thought that counts)

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Thanx ... and I promise NOT to have a 'G.Dubya Bush' reaction to Pretzel Chomping ! hic !! ;-)

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Oh yeah! Baby! Nice way to bring it home - right to the HEAD half-wit himself.

Gooooooooaaaaaaaallllll !!!

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Good Score !! Invitation '4 U 2 B' post #444 and here's Wishing You Merry Chrimbo with : http://documentarystorm.com/inside-job/ & http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ ~~{;-) x

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

I give Inside Job 444 thumbs up. Crap!...Hold on, I spilled my damn drink. I'm all thumbs today. M-Xmas, Happy everything.

[-] 0 points by nolongerasleep (57) from Cleveland, OH 7 years ago

Your question is illogical. Being a libertarian and assuming poverty to strictly be a result of individual choice with society playing no role has no relation.

It's a grey area in fact.

Some fail because they are weak, they lack necessary skills, they lack intelligence, they lack will, they lack determination, they lack self control.

Others fail because they are different. They think far ahead. They innovate. Society can't match their level of intelligence, ethic, morality. They accomplish the unthinkable through will alone. The elite see this and fear for themselves because they know they cannot compete. They do everything they can to maintain power knowing there are those of us that will take their power.

There are other situations too, but suffice to say poverty is something we all share accountability for, and something we must all fight to destroy. If you want to destroy poverty, become knowledgeable. Become skilled. Make it so that you aren't redundant. Create self worth. Contrary to what many believe, simply being human does not give your life value.

The value of your life is the sum of your actions and your ability to overcome those who would see you defeated.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

There are two buses you can get on in this life.

Let's examine the people on bus 1, those people, let's call them the loving people, believe having a heart is a good thing and helps us care for one another and work together. It's a damn nice bus to be on, imho.

Now let's examine bus 2, which is a pale, twisted reflection of bus 1 -- those people, let's call them the diabolical people, think having a heart is a bad thing and detrimental to their pursuit of defeating everyone else. This is the freak bus, imho.

[-] 1 points by nolongerasleep (57) from Cleveland, OH 7 years ago

I am on both buses. I realize that in order for us to have a society that we expect, that we feel is worth living in, there are winners and losers. It doesn't mean I hate other people, or lack a heart, it just means I understand that there will be winners and losers in order to have this society that we rely on. The key is making sure everyone has a chance to be a winner at some point instead of losing all the time unless they are lazy and a complete failure at life.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

The key to caring & displaying heart & showing empathy is realizing we are all winners to begin with and that simply being human does give your life value. I applaud your effort to make us believe you care, but your act of thorough, diabolical condemnation of an individual to the status of 'complete failure' (total defeat) at life reveals your level of heart and shows us you are indeed, an avid passenger of bus 2.

[-] 0 points by kingscrossection (1203) 7 years ago

There has to be some type of personal role being played.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Of course, I recognize that. My point is the libertarian stereotype that everybody who suffers is purely a result of personal choice and the blatant denial that society plays no role. It's absolutism nonsense. Wall Street nearly crashed the world economy and had to be bailed out, everyone is dealing with the great recession effects of that societal blunder on a personal level. It effected the entire world economy and everybody living in it. This post is pure nonsense. Personally, I now spend a lot of time on this forum trying to convince people not to let Wall Street ask for more deregulation. Surely, we can not collectively be that stupid to go down that road again.

[-] -1 points by Farleymowat (415) 7 years ago

Don't be so jaded. Are liberals greedy for what they have not earned? Yes or no please.

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

I can't stereotype liberals, each is unique. I judge individuals by merit and by observation. I don't deal in absolute nonsense.

[-] -1 points by Farleymowat (415) 7 years ago

Oh I see. You are the judge of people. Are you so wise? A simple yes or no please.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Yes.

[+] -5 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

yes. poverty, for the most part, is driven by personal choices in life. The number one factor among people in poverty is being a member of a single parent household. How is that "society's" fault?

[-] 4 points by Anachronism (225) 7 years ago

Wow... We must have a world of people that the vast majority want to live in abject poverty because that is the trajectory. There comes a point where this kind of thinking becomes psychopathic.... Like during economic collapses. Surely the 25% unemployment during the great depression was caused by an epidemic of laziness(women did not work in the 30s so it would be like 40-50% unemployment now)

Bizarre "market" worship.

[+] -5 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

No - the depression was prolonged by government intervention like is happening now. look at all prior recessions pre 1930 & they all rebound in a year with very strong growth. even 2001 no intervention - a blip on the radar. intervention - drags out for 10 years only to end with war. the interventionists goal is not to fix the problem, it is to take advantage of the situation to gain control over you. to make you dependent on them so you vote to keep them in power. Wake up !

[-] 3 points by RogerDee (411) from Montclair, NJ 7 years ago

Quit making stuff up, you're pathetic.

From 1836 to 1933 all but 3 of 25 economic downturns were 1 to 5 years long- the vast majority being negative 14% to 37% GNP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States

[-] 3 points by Anachronism (225) 7 years ago

So WAIT A MINUTE- how can it be the governments fault and the individuals. You have some logical inconsistencies in your train of thought.

The government is the only thing keeping the economy from collapsing into a smoking ruin. Don't get me wrong - I wish they would let the "free market"work so capitalism would end - because the entire banking system is bankrupt. Unfortunately, they are going to drag it out for as long as possible and liberatoons like you will be babbling about "Whaa! the government is ruining the economy"

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

The Reagan depression lasted 8-10 years.

Wake up yourself.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

From Reagan to Obama, they're all liars and frauds along the way. Some just more than others.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

You forgot that " I am not a crook" guy.

I remember hearing him say that for the first time.

Do you think he set a precedent?

[-] 0 points by RogerDee (411) from Montclair, NJ 7 years ago

Unreal BS. Go sit in the corner until you can write some truth.

It was 1982, look it up right here and then tell us youre sorry for making crap up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

I never look up history on wiki, even Sara Palin can write it.

Besides, I lived it. I remember how bad it really was.

It took me 6 years to recover and many of my friends 10.

8 being an average.

Wiki ain't tellin' me what I lived. You won't either.

Care to apologize?

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

You're dribbling out social opinions. Not empirical evidence. Educate Yourself. Please.


Politician Blames Poverty on "Dysfunctional" Single-Parent Families by Charlotte Hill · 2010-02-12 06:00:00 UTC Topics: Children in Poverty · Culture Of Poverty

Every day, as I walk through the streets of downtown Berkeley, I am confronted with the concrete reality of poverty. Elderly men lie wrapped in blankets in front of empty storefronts; homeless teenagers huddle in circles, asking passers-by for money or marijuana; hordes of men and women appear at seven o'clock sharp as food banks open their doors to the hungry.

In this environment, poverty can feel like an intractable problem, too pervasive to conquer. Imagine my surprise, then, to discover that there's an easy solution to eradicate poverty completely. Just ask Representative Spencer Swalm, a Republican state legislator from Colorado, who argued on Monday that families can stay out of poverty by avoiding having kids outside of marriage.

"Those children are almost guaranteed to be in poverty," Swalm remarked in an interview after speaking out against House Bill 10-1002, which would provide much-needed tax relief for Colorado's poor. "You don't want kids in poverty? Don't have kids out of wedlock." Demand that Rep. Swalm apologize for his ignorant comments and ask him to accept and act on the true causes of poverty.

House Speaker Terrance Carroll rightly identified Rep. Swalm's comments as "an insult to every single person who lives in poverty, who works their butt off every day just to keep their head above water." The problem isn't necessarily that Swalm associated single-parent families with poverty; as the Denver Post points out, more than a third of Colorado children from single-parent families live in poverty, compared to 8.6 percent of children living in married-couple families. It's that he got his causation all mixed up. These statistics shed light on a real problem: single-parent households (and not just in Colorado) struggle with low incomes disproportionately more than families led by two parents.

But whether a child winds up living in poverty can't be boiled down to the number of parents he lives with. Countless factors, like unequal access to affordable health care and educational opportunities, play a huge role. What's more, Rep. Swalm's prized statistics in no way justify his flawed idea that "intact families do better than dysfunctional or broken families" (a slap in the face to Speaker Carroll, who was born to an unwed mother). A 2009 study conducted by an Ohio State professor found that family stability, not the number of parents in a given household, was the determining factor of a child's educational and life success. "Based on this study," explained Professor Kamp Dush, "we can't say for sure that marriage will be a good thing for the children of single mothers, particularly if that marriage is unhealthy and does not last." So much for Swalm's idea that two parents are always better than one.

It's time that elected officials like Rep. Swalm (who, might I add, serves on House Committee of Health and Human Services) stop twisting statistics to fit their political agendas. Tell Rep. Swalm to offer a sincere apology to hard-working single-parent families. After all, what single-parent families need definitely isn't an extra dose of unfounded criticism. They need the resources to help their children succeed.

http://news.change.org/stories/politician-blames-poverty-on-dysfunctional-single-parent-families


Here's some more reading. I suggest you educate yourself before blabbing your mouth off about myths.


Empirical Studies on the Culture of Poverty Concept vs. Cultural Opinion of Grownup

Researchers around the world tested the culture of poverty concept empirically (see Billings, 1974; Carmon, 1985; Jones & Luo, 1999). Others analyzed the overall body of evidence regarding the culture of poverty paradigm (see Abell & Lyon, 1979; Ortiz & Briggs, 2003; Rodman, 1977).

These studies raise a variety of questions and come to a variety of conclusions about poverty. But on this they all agree:

There is no such thing as a culture of poverty.

Differences in values and behaviors among poor people are just as great as those between poor and wealthy people.

In actuality, the culture of poverty concept is constructed from a collection of smaller stereotypes which, however false, seem to have crept into mainstream thinking as unquestioned fact. Let's look at some examples.

MYTH: Poor people are unmotivated and have weak work ethics.

The Reality: Poor people do not have weaker work ethics or lower levels of motivation than wealthier people (Iversen & Farber, 1996; Wilson, 1997). Although poor people are often stereotyped as lazy, 83 percent of children from low-income families have at least one employed parent; close to 60 percent have at least one parent who works full-time and year-round (National Center for Children in Poverty, 2004). In fact, the severe shortage of living-wage jobs means that many poor adults must work two, three, or four jobs. According to the Economic Policy Institute (2002), poor working adults spend more hours working each week than their wealthier counterparts.

MYTH: Poor parents are uninvolved in their children's learning, largely because they do not value education.

The Reality: Low-income parents hold the same attitudes about education that wealthy parents do (Compton-Lilly, 2003; Lareau & Horvat, 1999; Leichter, 1978). Low-income parents are less likely to attend school functions or volunteer in their children's classrooms (National Center for Education Statistics, 2005)—not because they care less about education, but because they have less access to school involvement than their wealthier peers. They are more likely to work multiple jobs, to work evenings, to have jobs without paid leave, and to be unable to afford child care and public transportation. It might be said more accurately that schools that fail to take these considerations into account do not value the involvement of poor families as much as they value the involvement of other families.

MYTH: Poor people are linguistically deficient.

The Reality: All people, regardless of the languages and language varieties they speak, use a full continuum of language registers (Bomer, Dworin, May, & Semingson, 2008). What's more, linguists have known for decades that all language varieties are highly structured with complex grammatical rules (Gee, 2004; Hess, 1974; Miller, Cho, & Bracey, 2005). What often are assumed to be deficient varieties of English—Appalachian varieties, perhaps, or what some refer to as Black English Vernacular—are no less sophisticated than so-called "standard English."

MYTH: Poor people tend to abuse drugs and alcohol.

The Reality: Poor people are no more likely than their wealthier counterparts to abuse alcohol or drugs. Although drug sales are more visible in poor neighborhoods, drug use is equally distributed across poor, middle class, and wealthy communities (Saxe, Kadushin, Tighe, Rindskopf, & Beveridge, 2001). Chen, Sheth, Krejci, and Wallace (2003) found that alcohol consumption is significantly higher among upper middle class white high school students than among poor black high school students. Their finding supports a history of research showing that alcohol abuse is far more prevalent among wealthy people than among poor people (Diala, Muntaner, & Walrath, 2004; Galea, Ahern, Tracy, & Vlahov, 2007). In other words, considering alcohol and illicit drugs together, wealthy people are more likely than poor people to be substance abusers.

The Culture of Classism

The most destructive tool of the culture of classism is deficit theory. In education, we often talk about the deficit perspective—defining students by their weaknesses rather than their strengths. Deficit theory takes this attitude a step further, suggesting that poor people are poor because of their own moral and intellectual deficiencies (Collins, 1988). Deficit theorists use two strategies for propagating this world view: (1) drawing on well-established stereotypes, and (2) ignoring systemic conditions, such as inequitable access to high-quality schooling, that support the cycle of poverty.

The implications of deficit theory reach far beyond individual bias. If we convince ourselves that poverty results not from gross inequities (in which we might be complicit) but from poor people's own deficiencies, we are much less likely to support authentic antipoverty policy and programs. Further, if we believe, however wrongly, that poor people don't value education, then we dodge any responsibility to redress the gross education inequities with which they contend. This application of deficit theory establishes the idea of what Gans (1995) calls the undeserving poor—a segment of our society that simply does not deserve a fair shake.

If the goal of deficit theory is to justify a system that privileges economically advantaged students at the expense of working-class and poor students, then it appears to be working marvelously. In our determination to "fix" the mythical culture of poor students, we ignore the ways in which our society cheats them out of opportunities that their wealthier peers take for granted. We ignore the fact that poor people suffer disproportionately the effects of nearly every major social ill.

They lack access to health care, living-wage jobs, safe and affordable housing, clean air and water, and so on (Books, 2004)—conditions that limit their abilities to achieve to their full potential.

http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/apr08/vol65/num07/The-Myth-of-the-Culture-of-Poverty.aspx


[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

hahaha! Tower of babble lol! single parent households & poverty - look it up.

[-] 3 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

You don't really want an answer to your question. Who is paying you?

[-] 3 points by ineptcongress (648) 7 years ago

dumb ass... many single parents have spouses who cheated on them or left them at no fault of their own... and you try finding a new spouse when you're tending to a 3 year old after work and don't have a family nearby, so babysitting's too expensive.... you really are ignorant.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

Having a child "out of wedlock" and having children within wedlock and later becoming single are DIFFERENT things.

MY spouse left me with 4 kids-ages 9, 7, 2 and 6 months, and he'll be the first to tell you that I wasn't at fault in the divorce at all. I had no family nearby. So I took in daycare children so I could be at home with MY kids AND generate an income. I had to pay my OWN way because my name was on the mortgage so I didn't "qualify" for government help, and my family couldn't help me financially either. My friends and my church helped me, and I DID IT. And I also dated and remarried.

But it was there, in the most devastating junction of my life, I read something in a book that changed my whole world. It was essentially this (cannot find the actual quote): Where you are in your life at this moment...all the good, all the bad, and everything in between...is a direct result of your own choices. Even when you choose NOT to act, you are still making a choice. And those choices, all piled up together is what your life results in.

Reading that made me MAD. FURIOUS. RAGE is a better word. And then it made me sick to my stomach. Horribly, painfully sick. For days. Because I knew it was TRUE.

I CHOSE to marry that bastage. I CHOSE to date him. I "fell in love" with him. I CHOSE to marry him when he asked. And I CHOSE to put him through college to a Master's degree. I CHOSE to marry him WITHOUT getting my own college degree first. I CHOSE to have those four children-they were MY responsibility as much as they were his. I had made "my bed" and I didn't enjoy laying in it one bit. But in realizing all of that, that I had "chosen" my past..I realized something else. I realized that I was ALSO going to be the one CHOOSING my future.

So I chose. I CHOSE to be the one in charge of my life from then on and NEVER assume or expect someone, or something, else to do that job for me. I CHOSE to nail his ass to the wall during the divorce in order to insure child support came out of his checks before anything else did. Then I CHOSE to work my ass off and keep my house AND take care of my children alone. I CHOSE to be happy and find success in MY terms.

You can choose to look into and accept the same basic truth I did. You can choose not to. But either way, you WILL be the one doing the choosing.

[-] 0 points by Perspective (-243) 7 years ago

Very well said!

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Just pointing out the facts. I didn't make any judgement's. So - I should support the single parents who's spouses cheated on them ? Is that what you are saying? how do you know it is through no fault of their own?

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 7 years ago

yes you should support them--they are people in need. a christian would do that. are you saying you hate christ and you hate god? are you saying you want to burn in hell forever? (that's me using your twisted line of reasoning, and gimmicky argument style in the above statement). and many would rather be in a relationship than their single circumstance and would do anything to change it.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

of course we should support people in need. It's just the mechanism for how that is being done. I am against the use of force to redistribute income. I am against the use of force in public education. I am against the use of force in anything. The use of force is not consistent with a free people.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

We must use force to defend life and property.

Other than that, I want the rule of law to prevail in my community. Rarely is "force" used in this context. It sounds as if you are applying one definition of "force" for other kinds of situations, like ensuring the will of the people in safety, health, educational, and other essential services. Do you favor essential social services? Laws ensure their existence and must be followed, sometimes according to what is reasonable, and other times according to certain absolutes, depending on the context. Be aware of context when using such loaded words as "force," as in "the use of force in public education." What exactly are you talking about here? When is "force" used in public education? As I recall, it's not allowed anywhere in public education. The will of the people in implementing for example, a science curriculum, is important to honor. Where is the "force" applied in this context?

Who is paying you to distort the public debate in this way? What media do you consult in forming your opinions?

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

safety yes Health no. Define "essential" when you talk about social services.

Public ed is force because I cannot choose to use my school tax to send my children to a school I deem appropriate. The choice is made for me by the govt. Only if I am rich enough to pay both publix school tax & private school tuition can I afford this freedom. There is nothing more divisive than the public school system. How about a voucher program?

[-] 2 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

Cause they are not popular and haven't been proven, over time; and they're undemocratic, and unconstitutional.

http://www.adl.org/vouchers/vouchers_public_schools.asp

When offered the opportunity to vote on voucher-like programs, the public has consistently rejected Indeed, voters have rejected all but one of the tuition voucher proposals put to the ballot since the first such vote over 30 years ago. them; voters in 19 states have rejected such proposals in referendum ballots. In the November 1998 election, for example, Colorado voters rejected a proposed constitutional amendment that would have allowed parochial schools to receive public funds through a complicated tuition tax-credit scheme. Indeed, voters have rejected all but one of the tuition voucher proposals put to the ballot since the first such vote over 30 years ago.

Voucher proposals have also made little progress in legislatures across the country. While 20 states have introduced voucher bills, only two have been put into law. Congress has considered several voucher plans for the District of Columbia, but none has been enacted.

A recent poll conducted by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies demonstrates that support for vouchers has declined over the last year. Published in October 1998, the Poll revealed that support for school vouchers declined from 57.3 percent to 48.1 percent among Blacks, and from 47 to 41.3 percent among whites. Overall, 50.2 percent of Americans now oppose voucher programs; only 42 percent support them.

When offered the opportunity to vote on voucher-like programs, the public has consistently rejected Indeed, voters have rejected all but one of the tuition voucher proposals put to the ballot since the first such vote over 30 years ago. them; voters in 19 states have rejected such proposals in referendum ballots. In the November 1998 election, for example, Colorado voters rejected a proposed constitutional amendment that would have allowed parochial schools to receive public funds through a complicated tuition tax-credit scheme. Indeed, voters have rejected all but one of the tuition voucher proposals put to the ballot since the first such vote over 30 years ago.

Voucher proposals have also made little progress in legislatures across the country. While 20 states have introduced voucher bills, only two have been put into law. Congress has considered several voucher plans for the District of Columbia, but none has been enacted.

A recent poll conducted by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies demonstrates that support for vouchers has declined over the last year. Published in October 1998, the Poll revealed that support for school vouchers declined from 57.3 percent to 48.1 percent among Blacks, and from 47 to 41.3 percent among whites. Overall, 50.2 percent of Americans now oppose voucher programs; only 42 percent support them.

And where they've been tried they can't show they are more effective:

We do not conclude from these findings that private schools are more effective in raising student test-score performance than public schools...

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/pepg/PDF/Papers/PEPG06-02-PetersonLlaudet.pdf

Let's look at data verses speculation. Experienced public school teachers are dedicated professionals. The schools that need help are those in high-poverty areas. What they need is a holistic system that supports the family unit, and early childhood education, and living wages.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

thats funny - new york city parents are begging for vouchers. See Waiting for Superman - same director/producer as Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth. Anything coming out of Harvard is totally biased leftist spin I dont even have to click on the link. If the people get to vote on vouchers or not fine - let them vote. They havent got around to giving me a choice yet in my neighborhood.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 7 years ago

based on what you said about single parents--basically, it's their own damn fault, let them rot in hell, they made every choice that led to their dire circumstance of poverty. so, if we did not force people like you to pay taxes to support them--they'd be out in the cold without food on christmas...just like you think they deserve. hey, i know i am not going to change your twisted mind, so let's drop it.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I dont know - there use to be more self reliance, family & charity, Now everybody expects the govt to take care of them. What does this have to do with the 1% & OWS anyway?

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 7 years ago

the gov't takes very, very good care of the 1%--see my brian roberts post--it's a microcosm that is played out perpetually for the 1%--i know several hundred people quite well--not a single one of them expects the government to take care of them--you're dead wrong... we just want to stop being robbed to help the 1%. again, see brian roberts.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I agree - they also like to keep people dependent on them for free stuff in exchange for votes. So why isn't the aim of OWS @ the govt. ?

[-] 1 points by 1169 (204) 7 years ago

the 1% controls the so called government

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Note: not a fact one in response. Some citizens concentrate not only money at the top but ignorance too.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I already gave you the fact. The most common factor for people in poverty is being in a single parent household.

[-] 2 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

you look it up focus01: everthing you say is your own assertion based on your opinion.

http://www.economicmobility.org/assets/pdfs/EMP%20American%20Dream%20Report.pdf

Recent studies suggest that there is less economic mobility in the United States than has long been presumed. The last thirty years has seen a considerable drop­off in median household income growth compared to earlier generation

[-] 1 points by RogerDee (411) from Montclair, NJ 7 years ago

2010 census report, a male working full time year round had a median income of 47k in 2010, in 1973 adjusted dollars 49k.

No raise in 38 years......

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

And you ignored all the other facts. You ignored the evidence that single parent statistic is not a true indicator. A 2009 study conducted by an Ohio State professor found that family stability, not the number of parents in a given household, was the determining factor of a child's educational and life success. "Based on this study," explained Professor Kamp Dush, "we can't say for sure that marriage will be a good thing for the children of single mothers, particularly if that marriage is unhealthy and does not last." So much for Swalm's idea that two parents are always better than one. game over.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

Please show me where in the quote you provided from Professor Dush, where he addresses "poverty levels"? The quote addresses "family stability" (rather than number of parents) as "the determining factor of a "child's educational and life success".

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Go back up and read the earlier comments, the full article is up there somewhere.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

I'm sorry. Again. The article says that "a 2009 study was conducted" in which is was found that family stability, not the number of parents in a given household, was the determining factor WAS THE DETERMINING FACTOR OF A CHILD'S EDUCATIONAL AND LIFE SUCCESS"... and then Professor Dush is quoted.

Thus a family's stability level is the determining factor in a child's educational and life success, not how many parents are in the home.

focus01's point is NOT about the degree of "educational and life success" experienced by the children of single parents. It's about the "income level-specifically poverty" experienced by the children of single parents.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

His entire post is about engaging in class warfare and advocating personal responsibility as the absolute cause for personal misfortune. Not only does instigating class warfare piss me off, he is hunkering down on an indefensible position, based on an absolute, unfounded, unproven, and disputable argument. Class warfare is what I was responding to. Now, I agree that personal responsibility plays a role in success, but anyone who DEFIES logic and rational thinking to the point they exclude social structures (such as the tax system bleeding the middle and lower classes) is asking for a stiff rebuttal.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

I believe his entire post was:

"Question ? Tell me precisely how the 1% has stopped you from achieving your dream.

No generalizations about "society" etc. Personal accounts only."

I am trying to point out that your ASSERTION that he is IGNORING social structures-is ONLY an assertion. It is not a fact. Your continued attempts to DECLARE that he is doing, something that evidence does not prove he IS doing, demonstrates that YOU either don't understand the rules of logic and reason, or you don't CARE.

Whether you are merely an accidental fool or an arrogant ass I can ONLY assume. See how that works?

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Okay, let's go through it again.

The Libertarian test: Do you absolutely believe poverty to be a result of individual choice, and society plays no role, simple yes or no please? No dodging.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

Are you asking me or him? For myself, I do not "absolutely believe" poverty to be absolutely the result of individual choice alone.

To be clear. I'm defending the rules of logic and reason. focus01 might very well be a raving lunatic who poops spotted unicorns. But YOU are the only person using the word "absolute" and speaking for people.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

yea - you can have a study say anything you want. Ohio "STATE" . The STATE has an interest in keeping people POOR! wake up ! How about teen pregnancy? does that have any bearing on being in poverty? Drug use - no bearing? crime? no bearing on not being able to get a job with a record?

[-] 2 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Why do you think "the state has an interest in keeping people poor?" It could more easily be said the 1% want to keep everyone poor so they don't have the means to discover just how much the 1% are worth and continue to rip the rest of us poor working slaves off decade after decade. Do you read, yourself? The Central Intelligence Agency has the statistics to prove the 1% aren't taxed at nearly the rates as the rest of us. If the 1% are the "job creators," where are the jobs, after all this time? Since the early 1980's, when tax rates on the 1% went way down, all we've had are "jobless recoveries." Where are the jobs?

[-] 2 points by RogerDee (411) from Montclair, NJ 7 years ago

Entirely correct. The 1986 Tax Reform Act removed about 80% of tax incentives to invest in the US, in jobs, Since then we've had 3 recessions all of which had "jobless recoveries".

In 1980 we taxed the top 1% (income tax) at 70%, the effective rate was about 20%, we gave huge tax breaks to the rich if they did the right thing for the community. Create jobs.

[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

The State wants you poor & dependent so you support them. the one who promises the most free stuff gets the votes of the poor. look at how people freaked when Obama threatened to not send out the social security checks when they were negotiating the debt ceiling. Deplorable fear tactics. Do you ant to live like that? Dependent on the government for your survival!?

the top tax rate for people earning over $360,000 is 36% - the top 1% earnes over $347,000 and contributes 24% of the IRS tax receipts. The bottom 50% contributes 3% to the IRS tax receipts. So you tell me what is fair?

[-] 2 points by RogerDee (411) from Montclair, NJ 7 years ago

Ahhh, no. The top rate is 35% and starts @379k. Ok?

The top 1% have 43% of the wealth and yet pay only 36% of all federal taxes. So you tell me what is fair?

www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

An absolute fact is one that is indisputable. For example, if you jump of a cliff, you will fall downward. It is called the law of gravity. It is indisputable.

Does teen pregnancy contribute to poverty? It is disputable; however, I would imagine it does because common sense dictates teen pregnancy certainly could have a bearing. So what? A lot of things could contribute to poverty, which is why we study it.

For you to outright dismiss all the societal factors that contribute to poverty and blame single parents as the absolute common factor for poverty as indisputable evidence DEFIES common sense and wouldn't pass the laugh test with a five year old. Grow up.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I didnt say absolute common factor I said it is the most common factor/variable. Anyway - what does this have to do with Wall Street anyway lol! ? The poor have govt subsidies anyway. Food Stamps, public housing etc.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

A strong middle class is the goal. Please remind your elected representatives. The 1% need a reality check on how life is nowadays for most people. The 1% need to examine the middle class nowadays. What percentage of our national population is currently living a "middle class" lifestyle?

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

first you need to define "middle class lifestyle".

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

It has everything to do with libertarians dealing in absolute notions concerning individual responsibility to the exclusion of disputable reality.


[-] focus01 (Queens, NY) -1 points 1 hour ago

yes. poverty, for the most part, is driven by personal choices in life. The number one factor among people in poverty is being a member of a single parent household. How is that "society's" fault?


Sure sounds like you're making an absolute case that poverty is driven by personal choices and treating it as fact. Grow up. It is not indisputable. IT IS NOT ABSOLUTE. Quit defying common sense, and give proper weight to all contributing factors, including societal conditions. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I never used the word absolute or indisputable. I'll say it another way - if you take all the various factors into account, the most "consistent" factor is being in a single parent household.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

So are you absolutely saying poverty has nothing to do with society? Yes or no?

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

Let's see...an hour ago, focus01 says "I never used the word absolute or indisputable" after which he suggests that there are "various factors" that play a role, with (in his view) single parenthood being the most "consistent" one.

So 12 minutes later, posing this question to him:" So are you absolutely saying poverty has nothing to do with society? Yes or no?"-is by very definition IRRATIONAL and ILLOGICAL.

He responds. Then you do another irrational and illogical thing-you act is if you have the "absolute" power and ability to read his mind/heart and the "absolute" authority to declare him both a mindless zombie AND an arrogant follower of Issac Newton.

"You can't answer a simple question. So, I'll give your answer for you. 'No, society plays absolutely no role in poverty. Damn. I'm smart like Issac Newton. I've just discovered the law of poverty. All kneel before my absolute knowledge.' "

Seems like you need a refresher course on reason and logic so you can stop "proposing absolutes that are neither provable or indisputable".

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Who are you? his god damned watchdog? You can't let the man think for himself. He's losing this argument because he's dealing in absolutes. Go ahead. Spin away, spin boy.

Anyone who takes an absolute position on individual responsibility being the sole cause of poverty is DEFYING logic and being irrational. It can not be proven, and is wholly disputable. So justthefacts, keep your little lap dog focus01 in the dark a little while longer. Don't let him think and defend his own positions.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

"He's losing this argument because he's dealing in absolutes. Go ahead. Spin away, spin boy. "

No. He has repeatedly stated that he is NOT dealing in absolutes. And you repeatedly, absolutely refuse to acknowledge that. I don't have to spin anything-it's all here in black and white.

The fact that you MUST create a straw man in order to give yourself something dastardly to "fight" nobly against is the best indicator that focus01 is NOT being dastardly on his own. (People who cannot provide evidence to support their premises-but wish to argue anyway-must "create their own" evidence so they can conquer it)

The fact that you insist on doing it over and over again while IGNORING the evidence presented that proves you, yourself, are "DEFYING" logic and reason-and thus losing the argument all on your own-is stunning.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

no reply button - yea I looked at it. You can have any study you want say anything. you cant control "society" you can control yourself. Personal responsibility is best way to avoid getting into trouble. any kind of trouble. Overall - if you do the right things, make the right decisions etc good things happen, if you make poor decisions do the wrong things bad things happen. And of course there are exceptions to the rule but they are exceptions & not the rule.

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

You can't answer a simple question. So, I'll give your answer for you. "No, society plays absolutely no role in poverty. Damn. I'm smart like Issac Newton. I've just discovered the law of poverty. All kneel before my absolute knowledge."

You've been fed this natural law bullshit of the libertarian philosophy and I'll bet you don't even know what I'm talking about because you can't think for yourself or question anything rationally. You can only deal in absolutes, proposed by those before you, that are neither provable or indisputable. Question where your philosophy came from. Think for yourself. It's not too late.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

my philosophy has evolved - I use to be left of center on most everything. You are the one who keeps using the word "absolute" I haven't used it once lol! "If you are twenty & not a liberal you have no heart. If you are forty & not a conservative you have no brain." Winston Churchill. Live & grow wiser.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

no reply again- no I dont respect left wing agenda driven tower of babble nonsense. I had enough of that in college and I use to think more along your lines because I thought my professors knew what they were talking about. Meanwhile they are all left wing agenda driven socialists. (Most anyway) Once I got out in the real world and got some real life experience, started thinking for myself, reading alternate points of view, I became more conservative/libertarian. Thats why the State took over education - to indoctrinate the youth early. Because once they get into the real world their senses will prevail & the socialists will lose the debate.

[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

society in what respect?

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

how about in respect to the studies I pasted earlier for starters. you did read it didn't you?

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

Have you ever seen a poor child? Yeah i bet they chose that.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Being a member of a single parent household is a personal choice, one I didn't take, which is why I live comfortably during these hard times. However, having to wait until I was thirty-five to even begin thinking about having children due to inflated markets and poor job protections even for professionals, and then realizing we hadn't the means for one parent to actually stay home and raise the children as well as provide for their future college educations, is directly attributable to the 1% enjoying their capital gains and amazing tax cuts.

Just because you're happily married, and richly educated, and continuously, gainfully employed, does not mean you can really afford children under the 1%.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

then dont have children. Is that a right now too lol! Please stop !!! Answer this - what is the goal of collecting taxes ?

[-] 6 points by Doc4the99 (591) from Washington, DC 7 years ago

"...The banks have said, leave us deregulated...don't put government in to meddle. Then with that freedom of maneuver they took huge gambles, and even made illegal actions, and then broke the world system. As soon as that happened then they rushed out to say 'bail us out, bail us out, if you don't bail us out, we're too big to fail, you have to save us'. As soon as that happened, they said 'oh, don't regulate us, we know what to do'....the public is standing there, amazed, because we just bailed you out how can you be paying yourself billions of dollars of bonuses again? And the bankers say, well we deserve it...And the problem that the Occupy Wall Street and other protesters have is: you don't deserve it, you nearly broke the system, you gamed the economy..., yet you're still in the White House [;] you're going to the state dinners, you're paying yourself huge bonuses...?" ~Jeffrey Sachs, Columbia University"

http://www.earth.columbia.edu/articles/view/1804

[-] 4 points by Doc4the99 (591) from Washington, DC 7 years ago

I see jobless veterans everyday who are angry and believe they have no future; they want to work, but they can't find jobs. They are hurting...Some of those do use the GI Bill and other benefits; but, still no jobs seem to exist for them-- even for the many veterans with college degrees. I am an Army psychologist and officer and doctor on active duty. I support OWS... I do not support the sale of unregulated derivatives. I support the young soldiers and want them to have a future as they leave the military with the scars of war, of combat, and the hopes as well as the dreams that should be afforded to all people.

[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Again - you just can't answer the question asked lol! I asked specifically - how the 1% prevented you personnally from succeeding.

[-] 1 points by warbstar (210) 7 years ago

Oh lots of us can answer the question quite intelligently. The problem is that you should already know the answer. The last 30 year historical record has thousands of specific examples.

Do your own homework.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

as suspected - wont answer the question hahaha!.

[+] -4 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

again - I know this is hard for you but try & focus on the question. how specifically has all of what you just said held you (personally) back from pursuing what you want to pursue as your goals?

[-] 3 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

YES WE CAN answer your question. There were so many dreams we had that were dashed because of the 1%. We had to live in an unsafe, crime-infested neighborhood for 20 years because that's all the house we could afford, despite advanced degrees from highly rated universities and continuous, sustained hard work all during that time -- we were burgled a few times and a bit afraid all that time, and shouldn't have raised children in that environment and under those conditions. The local schools were filled with these criminals' children and it was all the teachers could do to maintain order. We finally moved into a decent neighborhood last year, after all that time, but at great personal sacrifice. IF WE'RE LUCKY we will live decently in retirement. All we have ever done is work very hard, save, and live below our means. We go out to a movie once every few years and rarely eat out. Our vacations are almost always camping or backpacking adventures (cheaper that way). On average we attend concerts when friends aren't using their tickets, we don't have a TV (no time to watch it), and only pay for utilities, food, water, fuel, transportation to and from work, clothes, and the mortgage. We don't have any extravagant, unhealthy habits. We save as much as we can. Investments? That's for the 1%. Look at how wildly they inflate and then deflate markets! We do meet with a book group five or six times a year to discuss books. I am about 15 pounds overweight because I have trouble working all the extra hours I must work in order to stay out of that crime-ridden place we came from. That is all we will ever do. This is how the 1% have spoiled our lives! Our friends all have similar stories to tell.

[-] 2 points by kingscrossection (1203) 7 years ago

I get living in a bad neighborhood and eating poorly. Actually my doctor now thinks I hit puberty about a year early because of all the shit hormones I was taking in from the cheap meat. How's that for personal? However, there is no reason not to exercise. If you don't have time then make time so you have much better odds of making it to your children's wedding.

[-] -1 points by Farleymowat (415) 7 years ago

You haven't tried. I lived in a horseshit neighborhood and moved! Figure it out and quit your blame game.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Yes I did try. Financially there was just no way we could afford to do that and save for retirement. We had to wait until the housing crisis caused home prices to drop substantially and then we moved. We are glad for this reason that we waited, for now we can retire with a bit of dignity as a result. I regret conditions had to deteriorate so much. We could have been happy in our previous neighborhood but crime increased so much we had no choice. Our whole state has become crime-infested, and friends I know who relocated have reported similar problems in their states' neighborhoods. Things have changed from twenty years ago.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

There is no point in playing their silly status game with them. You can talk to your blue in the face and they will never accede a foot in your direction. Wall Street corruption broke the backs of Main Street. The banks continue to have banner record-profit years, while the rest of us patsies wallow in the wake of the financial mess they created.

Every good crime needs a fall guy, and that is the point of this post, to make you the fall guy. Tell them to fuck off.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

True, so true. Thank you for knowing and communicating this. Right now, however, I can only speak truth to power, and keep doing it. I know they are only trying to discourage us, and I am convinced they are being paid to do it, and this is a forum in which I can make it clear the numbers do not lie, and they'd better wake up to this fact. The 1% don't pay their fair share and the numbers back this up. Just keep hammering home this point. Refer them to the Central Intelligence Agency's figures on taxation.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

They are a bunch of hypocrites also. They claim to despise socialism & wealth redistribution even while doing that very thing.

"Since 1980, if the average working family had received compensation based on its relative contribution to America's prosperity, it would be making an average of $45,000 a year instead of $35,000. Through 30 years of deregulation and financial maneuvering, the richest 1% have taken $10,000 a year from every American family. That's socialism in reverse."~Common Dreams

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Thank you! "Common Dreams" seems to have it right. This is all we are saying. The numbers don't lie about this.

I don't know if they are "doing that very thing," meaning redistributing wealth and regulating capitalism fairly, if that's what you meant. I suppose the upper 1% could be said to be redistributing wealth and instituting socialism so as to serve their interests, and their interests only. In this sense they are certainly hypocrites of the highest order. Their behavior seems sociopathic at this point, and they must be stopped.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

I certainly meant it in the latter sense.

[-] -1 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

So WHY did you purchase a home in that city instead of moving to another state and working for the same wages and purchasing a home for the same price somewhere ELSE? There are plenty of lower income neighborhoods in EVERY state that are not crime-infested or unsafe.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

I wanted to stay where the climate was to my liking, that's why. Wouldn't you try to do the same? How do you know wages would have been "the same" anywhere else? How do you know wages and home prices aren't correspondingly lower? I am not so sure "there are plenty of lower income neighborhoods in EVERY state that are not crime-infested or unsafe." High unemployment erodes safe conditions. Though the official unemployment rate is 8.6, rates in suburbs away from the big cities tend to climb into the double digits, as high as 25% in our county. Do you think we haven't thought of following the very suggestions you have provided?

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

So, I hear you saying that you made a CHOICE... "climate" over "safety" and bought a house based on that. That doesn't demonstrate that you "had to live" in a dangerous area because "the only houses you could afford" were in dangerous areas.

And no, I wouldn't, and never have chosen where my family lives based on climate. It 's a good one-it's a bonus. If it's a bad one, we make the sacrifice.

You can find out what average wages are in any given city, and for any given job, online simply by searching. You can also find our what the unemployment rate is in suburbs and towns away from big cities. AND if wages AND home prices are "correspondingly lower" in other areas, then your cost of living ratio stays the same.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

This is now. Twenty years ago the internet didn't allow us the information you claim is so easy to obtain. Ten years ago our old neighborhood was just safe enough for us to stay, though it had declined somewhat. Ten years ago home prices began their incredible rise, and it's a good thing we STAYED WHERE WE WERE, isn't it? We had to leave our old neighborhood two years ago was because it had become so unsafe over the last decade, and coincidentally home prices in nicer neighborhoods declined, so we moved. We are lucky we stayed in the old neighborhood and had enough equity in the old house, which is the only reason we can now afford to live in a nicer neighborhood at this time. If we had gone with the crowd and moved into a nicer neighborhood earlier than two years ago, we would have been in a disastrous financial condition now. As it is, IF WE'RE LUCKY we'll enjoy a bit of dignity in our old age, and luckily we're safe now, in a reasonable climate. We don't want to live in the interior of the United States. Please don't try to convince me there's something faulty in our decision-making process for staying on the coast.

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

Then you should have said "When we chose that neighborhood it was safe, and it stayed safe for us for ten years." instead of "we HAD to live in a dangerous, crime infested neighborhood for 20 years".

My parents worked until their health deteriorated too far to continue, and my mother had ZERO retirement benefits at all. But they had a roof over their heads, food on the table, and clothes on their backs. They spent time with their children and friends and were greatly loved. THEY thought they had a great, blessed, and comfortable life, and the idea that the "elite" had ruined their lives would have been completely absurd to them.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

If it is so blessed to be poor, then perhaps the 1% won't mind an incremental tax raise to make things fair.

Your mother should have had some retirement benefits. It sounds as if it wasn't the best thing for her not to have had them.

We enjoyed our first ten years or so of living there, but knew it wasn't the best neighborhood, but we tried making it better by being good neighbors whenever possible and giving back, and so forth, but criminal elements just kept moving in closer and closer, until gang members lived right across the street from us. A car-bombing incident in late 2008 clinched it. We knew we were too close to the criminal, gang element to be safe anymore and had to move.

We DID HAVE TO LIVE in a dangerous, crime-infested neighborhood for 20 years. It was just safe enough for the first ten or so of those years to be tolerable, but we were always aware of its uncomfortable proximity. Things just went downhill from then on, despite our best efforts.

I repeat: if we had moved during the last ten years, we would have really done ourselves in financially, with the inflated home prices during that time. Then you would have blamed us for moving, wouldn't you? You won't address my outrage at our neighborhood's deterioration, now will you? I still directly attribute this phenomenon to the CONTINUING AND GROWING WEALTH DISPARITY between the upper 1% and the lower 99%.

It is unacceptable to me that you continue to make it my fault for feeling unsafe in our old neighborhood. My question to you is, why did it have to deteriorate in the first place? It happens to have a perfect climate. Why weren't people content to enjoy life there? Do you know the answer to this question?

[-] 0 points by justhefacts (1275) 7 years ago

I'm sorry. Your logic just doesn't work for me. You can't control who moves in across the street from you TODAY either. Gun runners and drug dealers often live in VERY nice houses. They also LOVE to case and steal and rob and frighten people who LIVE IN NICE neighborhoods.

You've lowered the odds of being victim of violent crime, but you haven't escaped them. NONE of us do. I'm not blaming you for feeling unsafe in your old neighborhood, I'm saying you CHOSE to move into it AND when you moved out of it. You sacrificed your own safety in exchange for the chance to build $$ in equity in a house in that neighborhood.

Your go-to reaction is that "poor people" aren't capable of maintaining their homes with any degree of success. That being "poor" automatically results in violence, property destruction, and loss of home value. Yet I've LIVED in poor neighborhoods with people swept their sidewalks, weeded their gardens, and slapped a coat of paint on the house every couple of years. Being unemployed, or underemployed meant they had LOTS of time for upkeep and yard work.

If "wealth" automatically resulted in good, honest, noble people-you wouldn't have a damn thing to complain about because your whole point here is that the "rich" are bad, dishonest, criminal people who steal from the poor!! So your argument that "poverty" automatically results in bad, dishonest, criminal people is void as well.

[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Stop right there Dont tell me about "we" Tell me about you. Stop with the group think and speak for yourself. what is YOUR advanced degree in? how are crime infested neighborhoods the fault of the 1%?

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

"We" refers to our family. Our advanced degrees are in education and architecture. Crime infested neighborhoods are the fault of the 1% because they are not taxed at the same rates we are. Capital gains are only taxed at 15%. They make millions each year on capital gains alone. Why don't they have to pay the same taxes on money earned by simply collecting a dividend check that we pay through daily and nightly toil? How is that fair? While the 1% continue piling their millions and billions into hard assets and the bank, gangs take over our neighborhoods and recent college graduates languish in unemployment lines. The 1% will not allow themselves (except for Warren Buffett and those like him) to pay the same tax rate that the rest of us pay, or even those in the upper 10%, while they continue raking in hundreds of billions of dollars each year off the backs of their workers (Buffett's receptionist, for instance, who is taxed at a higher rate than he is). Have you noticed cities, counties, and states have had to fire or let go police, librarians, teachers, firefighters, health care workers, and adjust pensions? I'm not saying pension-spiking is in any way justified, and that some pension reform isn't called for, but to threaten someone's twenty-six thousand dollars a year pension after working for the public for 27 years is just absurd. But these are the kinds of things the 1% do all the time, year after year, that erode our confidence and living standards. So yes, I continue to finally, after decades of wondering why working so hard didn't guarantee an improvement for us, BLAME THE 1%! Yes, I have finally looked at the numbers -- THE NUMBERS -- done the math, and concluded that the upper 1% or thereabouts are COMPLETELY TO BLAME for our problems!

[-] 3 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 7 years ago

well lets see . . .

since my dream revolves around

repelicans

all of them

dropping dead

of heart attacks

in unison

and since they have not had the decency to do so . . .

I think it is fair to blame the one percent for having failed to sufficiently invest our intel services in the immediacy of our common national interest in just such an event - after all, their own security is at stake.

That's fair isn't it?

of course it is . . .

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

just as I thought. you dont have a clue why you are an occupier.

[-] 2 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 7 years ago

well keep thinkin . . .

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (22943) 7 years ago

They have bought my government so that it no longer promotes the general welfare of its citizens (me included).

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so go tell your congressman. vote them out. you are never going to stop lobbying interests. It's been going on since the beginning of time. organize and lobby a big group at your congressmans next townhall like the teaparty did. they were very effective. This is just s collective temper tantrum.

[-] 3 points by OneVoice (153) 7 years ago

By my own personal account:

  1. The ability to raise a family on one income
  2. The destruction of sound lending practices
  3. Inflated housing prices
  4. State debt via the creation of "Authorities"
  5. Elimination of affordable health care
  6. Elimination of affordable housing
  7. Globalization of the United States workforce
  8. Shipping jobs oversees
  9. Reducing and eliminating defined retirement plans
  10. Corporate financial influence of government policies and laws
  11. The belief that some banks are too big to fail
  12. Reduction of wages and benefits to increase corporate profits
[-] 2 points by RogerDee (411) from Montclair, NJ 7 years ago

If you give the troll a snack, it will think it can stay for dinner

[-] 2 points by OneVoice (153) 7 years ago

I have to give this baby troll a break. He's still trying to push through the birth canal of life and momma isn't at 10 centimeters just yet. Later on in his life I will hold him accountable for his own thoughts. Poor little thing.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago
  1. Is it your right to be able to raise a family on one income? How many children do you have a right to raise on one income? who will determine these "rights" 2. How were sound lending policies detroyed? By Whom? 3. Inflated housing prices? Prices are at an all time low - where have you been? does the crash of 08 mean anything to you? 4. State Debt how is that the 1% fault? 5. Obamacare was suppose to fix that no? 6. see number 3. - ok I've had enough boring - to easy
[-] 1 points by warbstar (210) 7 years ago

Okay. Then you answer your own question. Show us all your intelligence. If you haven't felt the impact then go to your circle of family and friends for specific examples.

If you cannot do that then you haven't been paying attention to your own question.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I have not been held back by the 1%. Nor has anyone I know.

[-] 1 points by OneVoice (153) 7 years ago

My father raised 5 children on one income. No handouts. I grew up in an area with affordable housing and lending practices were based on wages earned and debt loans. Bank interest rates encouraged savings. You speak about housing prices as though they are in an all time low. They still need to drop another 20-25%. The creation of "Authorities" to divert a statewide referendum vote on taking on state debt goes back to Mario Cuomo. The winners in this strategy was investment bankers. You seem to be bored and that's ok. Your lack of knowledge gives you a viewpoint of life with blinders on. Don't be afraid to educate yourself.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

things change. you cant expect to live like you are in the 1950's. If you are not increasing your skill set - you are falling behind.

[-] 1 points by OneVoice (153) 7 years ago

You give simple answers to complex issues. I also raised 3 children on one income. I purchased my own car at age 17 and registered and insured the vehicle in my name. My brother finished Cornell with a $10,000 student loan debt. If you truly believe that those who work a trade should fall out of the middle class then you must have lived a sheltered life. I believe that hard work in any form should have a financial reward and that our society benefits. Your idea that double digit yearly corporate profits and sending jobs oversees to maintain these record earnings is the true key for our success then we both have different viewpoints of what even one life is worth. Good luck on your journey.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Why are you concerned about what other people do or make or anything about THEIR lives? If your brother graduated Cornell with only a $10,000 debt I'd say congratulations! That's nothing & with what he can make as a Cornell grad I am sure he will do very well. So by all accounts - the 1% havent stopped either one of you from succeeding. Merry Christmas.

[-] 1 points by OneVoice (153) 7 years ago

Why am I concerned about the erosion of the middle class? You have lived a protected clueless life. When a small segment of society hold enough personal wealth that they further choose to increase this wealth by diminishing the standard of living for the working class then I have a problem with it. These wealthy individuals cannot stop me because I grew up and started a family well past the point that their weak business leadership took over. I've enjoyed the benefits of a good work ethic even at the early age of 14. With the lack of student loan debt my brother has done well for himself too. When I had affordable housing, health care, education costs and interest rates that encouraged savings the 1% did extremely well too. Isn't it amazing that it's possible for the wealthy to enjoy to fruits of their labor or their parent's labor and still not destroy the middle class in the process. We used to have some extremely smart businessmen years ago. Now, all we have are people who only are concerned about themselves. Enjoy your holidays too and don't give much thought to those around you.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

you didn't answer the question. One more try: how has the 1% stopped you specifically from succeeding?

[-] 1 points by OneVoice (153) 7 years ago

Again, those within the 1% who choose to diminish working class wages and benefits to increase their personal wealth have not affected my ability to succeed because the business model I grew up in was much different than it is today. I raised a family on one income. It wasn't easy but it was possible. I look at younger couples where both have to work to raise a family. I don't think I would even consider having a family under that condition. Sounds like you have a great life. Hopefully, your wealth was earned and not something you wished for by holding out your hand waiting for your Mom or Dad to die. Happy New Year.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by VirtualSSX (9) 7 years ago

Let's just say, not everyone has the education or privilege to pursue happiness and freedom. The 1% alone created lower class people. Let me ask you something focus01. If everyone had your intelligence, would you still work where you work now? Would you still be living the same life you live now? Don't ask how peoples dreams were stopped by the 1%. Rather than saying that, you could ask yourself, how the 1% could've helped alot of human beings. Mindless puppets who ask questions that don't put a good impact on peoples lives, or better help them, only causes more troubles....and you sir, only inflict conflict upon others. Plus I don't know if you've been paying attention with our country but our rights are being stripped from us with the "NDAA" martial law, and the "SOPA" to start censoring any website they choose to please. Please, educate yourself some more. Also to answer your question, peoples dreams are stopped by taxes, inflation, uneducated/unqualified government officials, corruption, false propaganda, major news networks, spiking college tuition, taking away rights, and etc. All of these issues, including alot more thats not listed in here is what is slowing down or breaking the 99%. Oh....and these are all personal accounts with most individuals trying to make a living. I'm a Web Designer/Developer, Content Producer, Break Dancer, Photographer, Video Editor, and Idealist. I'm the 99%. I just want people around me to have a place to stay in, food to eat, clothes to put on, and a good company to hang around with. It's a necessity, and should be a priority.

[+] -4 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so all that and you didn't answer the question I specifically asked lol! Dont worry - you are not the only one lol. So how are the 1% stopping you Personally form doing what you want to do? We need to break out of this group think. think as an individual - think for yourself

[-] 1 points by VirtualSSX (9) 7 years ago

see this is where your not capable of understanding. Why would you think for only yourself? For example, if your parents only thought for themselves, would you be born today? I wrote my thoughts as an "individual". People are social creatures. We were not born to think for ourselves. Just like animals, there is always a pack leader, and a pack leader always looks out for the best interest for their followers. Ask yourself, what is critical thinking? Apparently if you had it, you would understand your fellow Americans. I understand your thoughts perfectly fine. Your the type of person who believes anyone has the ability to do create "money" for any purposes, and if they don't, you deem these people has "scums" in society. Why didn't you just bother to write a straight forward question to the people about your question, rather than sugar coating it, and giving ill-witted comments back to people for expressing their thoughts individually. Critical thinking is what you don't truly have but you think you do. If you did, you wouldn't be thinking for yourself, you'd be thinking for others. Let me ask you, do you ever wonder how the world works? Do you ever wonder what life would be like without a "clock" or "money"? what would you do if time no longer exist, and money was no longer of value. What if materialistic items along with propaganda didn't exist? Lets just say, the world, would be at a much better state. Creativity, Motivation, and Ideas are the future. Sharing is caring. Our world as of right now is at a state of extinction. Do yourself a favor and go to www.ted.com, and open your mind. Look at brilliant people whom have wealth, try to help everyone out. That my friend, is the 99%, and that my friend, is Critical Thinking. What you speak of, is only ignorance. One day, when your mind is with the 99%, lets hang out, and talk about life. Don't let the government, and politics blind you my friend. Stick together, and be happy people are trying to fight for the world to be a better, and safer place.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Believe it or not - you are thinking of what is in your best interest also. You think sharing is in your best interest. You may also think it is in everyone's best interest too - but you are thinking of yourself. You cannot escape this basic human instinct. You can help others all you want - as long as you dont FORCE other to do what you think is best. Free to choose has to be available at all times. Otherwise how can we call ourselves free people?

[-] 2 points by VirtualSSX (9) 7 years ago

but without people, you wouldn't have success. In the end, everyone needs to look out for each other. The 1% didn't do it by themselves. They used, abused, and put fear into people to have it their way. That to me is not right. Everybody has helped the 1% out, it's time for that 1% to give back. I could never become a part of the 1% when I think about hunger, education, and human rights issues that people have worldwide. I'm sorry to say, most people aren't free. People are constantly given credit cards that the government/corporations know can't be paid back in full by most. Our governments overspend on everything, and never pay attention to cost efficiency. We also have many bright minds that have figured out how to save our whole planet from pollution, to standards of living...but our government doesn't make any of that their top priorities. They make their top priorities based on military, propaganda, and fear. If you look at the weaponry for the U.S, and compare it to the rest of the world, the U.S is the only country that wastes mostly all their money on military instead of helping people in our country. We put other countries out of debt but not ours. We try to "help" others all the time, but in reality, there is a hidden agenda behind the scenes. Majority of people aren't free. Not even you. I've lived in 9 different states, and 3 different countries. I have seen free men and women in different areas in the world. My friend, the U.S.A is no longer free. People are losing their homes, jobs, and lives everyday here. Who are you protecting/helping? Whats your purpose of being alive if you don't try to protect everything around you. Letting things go, and not making a stand means giving up your rights as a human, an individual, and as a savior. People look for help everyday, some people try hard but dont get far, while others are able to turn their lives around. I became a bitter asshole in my life at one point, thinking that everyone is just lazy and not there, but when you live in someones else's shoes, you'll understand that some people need a helping hand. My wife and I use to survive on 2 cans of food a day, living in a car because no one chose to help us. Luckily for me, 2 people came into our lives, and helped us. Without these 2 people whom have helped me on a whim, I wouldn't be where I'm at today. We're not free until everyone is united. United, we'll be happy. United, we'll be free.

[-] 1 points by VirtualSSX (9) 7 years ago

one day, if you end up losing your non-corporate / small business job, and working at McDonalds again. Who are you going to be pointing fingers at than? Let me tell you, if we don't win this, we'll just be slaves to all the corporations, and big businesses....and the funny part is, they'll only pay u and I minimum wage even if it's a hardworking job. If we took away all the corporation, and govt greed, everyone would have wealth/prosperity.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

excuses excuses - does this answer the question anyway? NO I asked for a specific example of how the 1% are holding YOU back YOU - not the majority, not some group YOU

[-] 2 points by VirtualSSX (9) 7 years ago

They take a part of my money "tax", which could help better benefit myself. Laws which makes my life insecure, and have no privacy. Education which has been raised substantially, which is preventing me from getting the education that I need for a reasonable price. Health, because good foods, and medicals are no longer affordable for lower class people. Transportation, because gas prices are becoming more expensive everyday. Why don't we have trains, and subways like Europe or New York all across the U.S? Now....if i wasn't held back by all of these things, my life would be perfect wouldn't it? I could probably name another 10 things but I don't think you would really care =).

and p.s......anything could be considered an "excuse" lol. That term is a very loose term. please place "excuse" here =).

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

who takes your money in taxes the 1% hahaha!? the government collects taxes hello!!! no privacy - again the government ! go to a state school , try & get financial aid, or a student loan work as a waiter or a bartender at night like I did. Gas prices again the government! for every penny exxon makes on a gallon of gas the government get three cents in taxes! yet Exxon is the evil one !?

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

I think you meant - think of yourself (isn't that your philosophy)

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

no - see you dont understand freedom at all.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

No, I have the freedom from believing in absolutes that don't exist. I don't like being brainwashed by is-ought thinking. I prefer to educate myself and have a free mind.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

everyone thinks in there own best interest. you may think socialism is in your best interest which is fine. Just dont impose it on me. Your way requires the use of force. My way requires mutual consent.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Who the hell said I favored socialism? Let me give you my idea of America:

Excerpts from The Spirit Level: Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger.

"Among the new objects that attracted my attention during my stay in the United States, none struck me with greater force than the equality of conditions. I easily perceived the enormous influence that this primary fact exercises on the workings of the society"~Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America


Excerpt 1

The Equality of Conditions

A very different vision of America is offered by one of its earliest observers. Alexis de Tocqueville traveled throughout the United States in 1831. He met presidents and ex-presidents, mayors, senators and judges, as well as ordinary citizens, and everywhere he went he was impressed by the 'equality of conditions'. 'the blending of social ranks and the abolition of privileges' -- the way society was one 'single mass' (at least for whites). He wrote that 'Americans of all ages, conditions, and all dispositions constantly unite together', that 'strangers readily congregate in the same places and find neither danger nor advantage in telling each other freely what they think', their manner being 'natural, open, and unreserved. And de Tocqueville points out the ways in which Americans support one another in times of trouble.

Should some unforeseen accident occur on the public highway, people run from all sides to help the victim; should some family fall foul of an unexpected danger, a thousand strangers willingly open their purses.


Excerpt 2

What's Trust Got To Do With It?

But does inequality erode trust and divide people -- government from citizens, rich from poor, minority from majority? This chapter shows that the quality of social relations deteriorates in less equal societies.

Inequality, not surprisingly, is a powerful social divider, perhaps because we all tend to use differences in living standards as markers of status differences. We tend to choose our friends from among our near equals and have little to do with those much richer or poorer. And when we have less to do with other kinds of people, it's harder for us to trust them. Our position in the social hierarchy affects who we see as part of the in-group and who as out-group -- us and them -- so affecting our ability to identify with and empathize with other people. Later in the book, we'll show that inequality not only has an impact on how much we look down on others because they have less than we do, but also affects other kinds of discrimination, such as racism and sexism, with attitudes sometimes...justified....by statements like, 'they just don't live like us'.

De Tocqueville understood this point. A lifelong opponent of slavery, he wrote about the exclusion of African-Americans and Native Americans from the liberty and equality enjoyed by other Americans. Slavery, he thought, could only be maintained because African-Americans were viewed as 'other', so much so that 'the European is to other races what man himself is to the animals'.

Empathy is only felt for those we view as equals, 'the same feeling for one another does not exist between the different classes'. Prejudice, thought de Tocqueville, was 'an imaginary inequality' which followed the 'real inequality produced by wealth and the law'.

Excerpts from the Spirit Level: Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger

[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

this is a socialist movement - are you kidding!?

[-] 3 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

No, its an injustice progressive movement. Warren Buffet pays less taxes than his secretary - are you kidding me!?

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 7 years ago

He doesn't pay less taxes but his tax rate may be lower than his secretary. His tax rate is lower because his earnings are from capital gains and dividends, not a salary. But Mr. Buffet's secretary has never given any interview regarding her tax rate or even what she earns as a secretary. So it's all speculation.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Sorry, I cannot discuss anything seriously with somebody who calls himself HarryPair.

[-] 0 points by HarryPairatestes2 (380) from Barrow, AK 7 years ago

It's Mr. Harry Pairatestes2 to you. So being a jaded citizen makes you more credible? Does my username make my post incorrect?

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Sorry, can't talk to hairy balls. I will not discuss anything seriously with hairy balls.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Wait, hairy balls, come back. I'm sorry, Let's start over. I promise I'll be serious this time...no wait....hahaha...I just can't do it....I can't bring myself to talk to somebody's HAIRY BALLS! hahahahaha.....breath..hahahahahahaha....breath........hahahahahah.....Owww! banged my knee on my desk. damn you hairy balls, quit making me laugh so hard.

Has anyone else talked to hairy balls lately? This is NUTS. Hahahahaha...oh stop me.....it hurts...i can't ....stop laughing....my poor knee....hahahahahaha.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

hahahahah.....no..i'm serious....hahahaha.....can't breathe...somebody help....i can't stop laughing......ow my ribs....hahahahahaha....hairy balls...hahahaha...talking hairy balls.....anybody got a razor.........hahahahahahahaha...breathe.....ow ribs hurt.....control it jaded.....control...big breath...finally........think i got it under control.....oh no....wait......talking HAIRY BALLS...slap....slap. pound....pound.. ow my hand..........hahahahahahahahahahah....can't stop....so funny....hahahahaha......

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Warren Buffet is free to send in the difference if he chooses. How about the progressives for higher taxes start leading by example. Maybe then it will catch on. That will solve at least half the problem since roughly half the people are liberals with other peoples money. See the difference - I give the choice. Buffet want to use force.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Changing the tax code is force? How does that work? If the rich change the tax code to make them richer, they choose. If progressives change the tax code, it is force? Makes no sense. I thought this was an American democracy. We vote on issues.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

1% changing the tax code? are they your elected representative? who is accountable to you the politicians or the 1%? there have been and always will be lobbyists. you have to hold your rep accountable. vote them out.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Is Buffet favoring changing the tax code force or choice? Don't dodge the question.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

"Yes, I vote for change if I don't like what other people are advocating is best for me" but when other people do it you call it greed lol!

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

You actually have a good point. But it is a superficial point, the distinction is in the moral measurement of greed on display. Only a fool blinded by greed can't see that distinction. Who is more greedy, a man struggling in a minimum wage job to put food in his belly, or the multi-billionaire defending his outrageous share of the wealth pie.

You are an empty soulless fool to make such a superficial, childish point.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

If you dont see how the government uses force every day you are beyond hope. you are forced into social security & medicare. you are forced into the public school system. you are forced into the progressive tax system. That is what defines government force! do you have away around this use of force?

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Yes, I vote for change if I don't like what other people are advocating is best for me. Again, it's called democracy. You should try it sometime. Works wonders to alleviate schizophrenic paranoia.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Buffet can favor anything he wants. He doesnt have the power to change the tax code. The Force comes from the government changing the tax code & enforcing it.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Force? I'm sorry, but I just don't understand your extraterrestrial point of view. Are you talking about the Force from the Star Wars movies? Implying our government officials are like Jedi Knights or something?

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 7 years ago

your way DOES require force, you shallow moron.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Thank you - I know I have won when you resort to name calling. Happy new year ! : >

[-] 3 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

It hasn't. But that's not the point of the OWS movement. If you're truly interested, spend some time learning something about it before posting something which may come off as being a bit defensive. Just sayin'.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

No, that is the point of OWS. They are against injustice.

"Since 1980, if the average working family had received compensation based on its relative contribution to America's prosperity, it would be making an average of $45,000 a year instead of $35,000. Through 30 years of deregulation and financial maneuvering, the richest 1% have taken $10,000 a year from every American family. That's socialism in reverse." ~Common Dreams

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

That's an excellent quote. And an interesting take on things. A $10,000 a year loss to every American family. I know my family certainly feels it.

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

link to the page where I found the quote.

http://www.scottgoold.org/classwar.php

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

Thanks for the link. I'll definitely check it out.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

gno(sis) : Below, please note the "So why do you care what other people are doing if it doesn't affect your pursuit of happiness?" !! Spoken like a True, Human-Hating ; Sociopathic ; Randian ; "Free Market" Fundamentalist !!!

verbum satis sapienti ...

[-] 2 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 7 years ago

Not to mention clueless and probably completely self-absorbed. It's people like focus that have caused things to get this bad. He (or she) is obviously one of the brainwashed puppets of the powers that be. Or possibly a paid infiltrator, eh? Or all of the above! Either way, I refuse to waste my time, as evidenced by my refusal to answer his (her?) response below.

[+] -5 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Great! Thank you! So why do you care what other people are doing if it doesn't affect your pursuit of happiness? How is it any of your business what other individuals do? I know the lefties like to put everyone into groups & pit one against the other but frankly - mind your own business.

[-] 2 points by smartenough (42) 7 years ago

Not yet. OWS will never give up !

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

The actions of Wall Street and big banks have put millions out of work and have stolen people's pensions and in a lot of cases even their homes. The list goes on. They created a shitty economy and there actions have devalued the US dollar, along with the actions of the federal government. But this is actually more like the .000001% instead of the 1%.

[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

doesnt answer the question. Dont talk to to me about millions of people I asked specifically how they are preventing YOU peronallyfrom succeeding.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

My job won't hire people full time and they laid off a bunch of salary employees because they didn't want to pay benefits anymore. They then hired a bunch of replacement part time employees that they don't pay benefits and pay much lower wages. Corporate policy after getting bought out by Hearst Corporation.

At a job I had about a year ago the owner didn't pay payroll taxes and when I was unemployed for a little over a month after the business shut down I couldn't get unemployment benefits because the owner didn't pay payroll taxes. I spent my entire savings until I got a new job about a month and a half later. I paid my taxes for my side of it to get the benefits if needed... but because he had funneled the money through a non profit shell company he had established, he never paid payroll taxes... which fucked me over. Does that answer your question?

I'm 24 years old and I paid 5,400 dollars in income taxes last year.

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (22943) 7 years ago

This all happens because the government has been bought by corporations and the wealthy and so, the Fair Labor Standards Act is no longer enforced.

[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

Even some are bought by foreign interests too.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (22943) 7 years ago

Good point.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

sounds like you should get a lawyer and go after that other employer. as far as your current job - thats what companies do. you need to keep increasing your skills and keep moving around. it's tough for everyone right now. blaming the 1% is childish. they dont do these things to hurt you. they do what they have to to stay in business. My company does the same thing.

[-] 2 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

no , it was tough for everyone back in '06 -'08. then suddenly hundreds of thousands of jobs were eliminated almost over nite and then thousands since then, and none have been created to replace them. you are way off base.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so- you don't have a case against your former employer ripping you off?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

why would i. its the system set up by the 1% that caused the unprecedented elimination of jobs , the jobs didnt go over seas.. the money used to pay for these jobs went into the pockets of 1% while the workload of the still employed has tripled. a well laid plan being executed before our very eyes. now its time to stop and put things back like they were.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

hahaha - so you describe a situation where you were ripped off - & you dont even want to fight back !? you deserve what you get .

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

Watch the movie Inside Job and then try and tell me that what they're doing is okay.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I never said it was ok - you just need to adapt to it. you are basing your life on a movie lol! good luck

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

Not really. I've had the same perspective on the situation for a while. I just saw Inside Job last week for the first time and it effectively explains the financial crisis in under 2 hours. It's called a recommendation of information. Not my life.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

and how has that held you back? focus on the Post.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

I already gave you a reply to this post. I gave you 2 specific examples and you never replied.

Here is my same reply from earlier,

"My current job won't hire people full time and they laid off a bunch of salary employees because they didn't want to pay benefits anymore. They then hired a bunch of replacement part time employees that they don't pay benefits and pay much lower wages. Corporate policy after getting bought out by Hearst Corporation, which is a huge media corporation.

At a job I had almost a year ago, the owner didn't pay payroll taxes and when I was unemployed for a little over a month after the business shut down I couldn't get unemployment benefits because the owner didn't pay payroll taxes. I spent my entire savings until I got a new job about a month and a half later. I paid my taxes for my side of it to get the benefits if needed... but because he had funneled the money through a non profit shell company he had established, he never paid payroll taxes... which fucked me over. Does that answer your question?

Also I'm 24 years old and I paid 5,400 dollars in income taxes for 2010."

And to my problem with Wall Street, I can't rob people blind because it's illegal. What they've done has hurt a lot of people and is straight robbery. A lady I work with has lost over 7 thousand dollars in her 401k.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

we are fighting back.. what do you think this OWS is about ? you wanted to know what the 1% has done.. i told you. you cant accept it. doesnt mean it isnt a fact.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

no - you personally against you employer who ripped you off. hiding amongst the OWS is cowardly and doesnt solve a thing. you think the employer who ripped you off cares about OWS?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

my company did not rip me off.. the 1% ripped off my company get your head straight

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

you are not being clear. please explain specifically how such a scapegoated group like 1% ripped you off ?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

no , it was tough for everyone back in '06 -'08. then suddenly hundreds of thousands of jobs were eliminated almost over nite and then thousands since then, and none have been created to replace them. you are way off base.

this is what they did- its the system set up by the 1% that caused the unprecedented elimination of jobs , the jobs didnt go over seas.. the money used to pay for these jobs went into the pockets of 1% while the workload of the still employed has tripled. a well laid plan being executed before our very eyes. -

the 1% has kept the jobs from being created for me to work at thats what they have done.. (((( you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink)))))

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[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so - no accountability on your part. Thanks - that answers my question perfectly. Your skills are not irrelavent. That's the whole point. you excpect something handed to you on a silver platter.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

you have not actually worked for a living apparently. my accountability cant be counted unless there are jobs. all you can ever say is 'get a job' when the jobs are eliminated you take away my accountability. and then want to blame me for speaking out against my lack of opportunity to contribute as though I caused the problem.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

again - "everybody" ducks the question. Might I ask - what is your trade?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

no you may not ask 'what is your 'trade'' . that is irrelevant and distracting. you have apparently not stated your question correctly if this answer is insufficient.

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[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

no - I am trying to understand what is holding you back from succeeding and you seem to not be able to explain how the 1% have held you back personally.

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 7 years ago

i personally have not been held back, i told you that earlier. but reckless investments by many institutions if the last few years have caused problems for countless people.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

"but reckless investments by many institutions if the last few years have caused problems for countless people." was not the question. Merry Christmas

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

PERSONAL - Verizon executives "moved" my job to India
along with thousands of others
so 1% Chairman Seidenberg could get more millions
PERSONAL
and I will kick you in the __ if you tell me to move to India

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

how about train for new skills in an industry that cant move. They are doing that where I work also. the writing has been on the wall for ten years. So I go night school to become a paralegal. No one owes you a living.

[-] 2 points by barb (835) 7 years ago

They betrayed us by moving their corporations over seas when it was the american citizens that made their corporation successful in the first place.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

andwhy would they do that?

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

no one owes you a living. have you ever heard that saying before?

[-] 2 points by infonomics (393) 7 years ago

Mr. Focus01 assumes that all the homes were purchased by homeowners with 30 year mortgages. They were not. Many homes were purchased by investors with 90 day loans. That's right, the investors bought homes with loans ending at 90 days. Why did they do such? Because at that time home speculation was the only investment that made sense. The stock market has peaked at a historical high P/E ratio of 22/1. So, what did the investors do when the 90 days came and the home could not be sold, excuse me, flipped? They dumped them at bargain prices because they had no liquidity to pay the 90 day loans. What happens when you dump assets? That's right, the prices go down...all of them. What happens when your home price goes down? The mortgage companies get nervous since their collateral has been damaged. They have clauses to accelerate interest rate adjustments. What happens when interest rates go up? That's right, the payment goes up. What happens when your payment goes up and your income does not? You default. Why doesn't your income go up? Because there was no real growth.

And now for the most important question of all: who knew these dynamics in advance? The pinstripes with their effervescent neck ties. The economy tanked in the fall of 2008. The collapse was a fait accompli, an accomplished fact. It happened and if it happened, it could have happened and if it could have happened, then someone could have known it. The money changers knew it but they could not live with the fact of no growth, so they fabricated it. Yes, they knew in advance the high probability that interest rates would be adjusted.

The most amazing understanding about these money changers is that they want you to believe two simultaneous contradictory thoughts: one, that they are so intelligent that they should be your leaders yet, two, when things go awry their intelligence seems to be vacationing. Hooey. If they are smart enough to be our leaders, they should be smart enough to prevent the abomination we now live.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

And - who's fault is that? no one held a gun to anyone's head to sign a mortgage. the crash doesnt happen unless people stop paying their debts.

[-] 2 points by yasminec001 (584) 7 years ago

Why are there still questions like this being asked? This is silly. There is a very real and very tangible grid system that overlaps the entire world. It is comprised of collective and individual choices..cause and effect. All of these choices, especially the collective ones, affect life in general. (Duh.) So, yes, the wrongful and selfish choices of people in power DO actually affect the rest of the world. Many cannot achieve their dream simply because they do not have enough to eat everyday. I think worrying about survival every minute of every day pretty much stops one from 'achieving their dream'. I have been there-homeless. I don't want to point the finger in any one direction, because it's everywhere and everyone. We all need to come together to start healing this planet and ourselves. If not, we're gonna need to look more into potential resources that can be found on these recently discovered planets. If we keep going the way we're going, we're not going to have clean air to breathe, medicines to help us, or any supplies to sustain us. But I'm sure the rich and powerful are already 10 steps ahead of us.

[-] 2 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

When the economy has finally crashed due to their lack of conscious, along with our gov, then you will be affected too.

If you cant see the direction the country is heading in, you are sleepin

[-] 2 points by badconduct (550) 7 years ago

I am not really concerned about being held back... I don't think that's the issue. I support Occupy for only two reasons. End the wars, support the environment. The rest needs to be decided upon with in the US, using it's own political structures.

[-] 1 points by Misfit138 (172) 7 years ago

Ending wars a supporting the environment? This is about money in politics. Jeez, you are in the wrong place.

[-] 3 points by badconduct (550) 7 years ago

Yes, but...

The War in Iraq = Money is politics, and destruction of the environment for profit = lobbying over human interests. So in truth; I am for taking money out of politics. It's all relative.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

well you might want to tell OWS that - they seem to be concerned about bankers earning too much money lol!

[-] 1 points by badconduct (550) 7 years ago

Bankers making to much money is a result of us spending to much in the wrong places, like credits cards and mortgages. Everyone is responsible, and everyone needs to take some of the blame.

I am certainly not against OWS' message toward the bankers, but I believe we need to change the fundamentals of Government to protect citizens and protect the constitution/bill of rights (for Canadians), rather than trying to make us all filthy rich. Because we can't all be rich, but we can all have a standard of living.

[-] 2 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 7 years ago

heh, you crack me up. Here's what I think.. Our World = Our Rules. The majority of the people on the face of this planet want to live peaceful lives and do not need to harm a single person in order to fullfill their dreams. I consider myself lucky to be among them. We are the MAJORITY in a big way. It is my dream to witness this rising, and when this happens, the 1% could not possibly block the way.

[-] 2 points by kingscrossection (1203) 7 years ago

If the majority want one thing and its our world and that means you make the rules then why the hell are you complaining in a park?

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Again - not answering the question! "our world" starts off your reply - the question was how specifically has the 1% stopped YOU from achieving your goals in life?> You are clinging to being part of a group - because you are weak & seek to shirk your share of the work load. Just a hunch.

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[-] 1 points by Misfit138 (172) 7 years ago

When you blame the "1%" as having all of the wealth, you assume that there is no growth. Economies are not zero-sum entities and we are not on a gold standard. There is always growth, so one person can hold onto $5 billion and that doesn't mean that all of a sudden the world has lost $5 billion as more money can be created through trade and commerce.

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[-] 1 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

@ misfit/focus or maybe i could grow my way out by buying my third world home on credit cards, and then declare bankruptcy. Isn't that what the Donald models, when he "creates" wealth, and it bites his but, he can be bailed cause he plays the system, The Donald has billions, right, cause he speculates, and when it doesn't pan out, he can "reorganize" in bankruptcy, and walk away clean. The trade and commerce theory is what makes the dope dealers money. Does that make it right? The money seems to be going somewhere, and the nation, and individuals, don't often have enough to pay the bills. Is it all going to China, the military? The Donalds and their like. Seems like it to me.The extra money that materializes, from trade, commerce and life, needs to come from somewhere. It flows from the people, who are workers, but when the value of that dollar seems to decline and things become inflated (that 3rd world house now cost more cause the 1 percent (drug mafia) have inflated the cost of life, and governments, which think they can run wars that will be paid for, "in the future"

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so you blame the 1% for crashing the economy. mind you to qualify as member of the 1% you need earn $347,000.00 and up.

why did the housing market collapse? All that stuff about financiers mumbo jumbo - ask yourself why the mortgage instruments they designed to spread risk defaulted. The reason they defaulted is people defaulted on their mortgage obligations.

If people paid their mortgage - there would have been no collapse.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

Correct! Ponzi-mopololy jackpot: the "99 percent" the people, could not pay the mortgages, because this country's wealth and jobs have been outsourced by the 1 percent, and now they are sitting atop all their accumulated profits and capital: they have won the game of monopoly. Period. They have had their tax -cuts but have not held up their end of the social-contract, and allowed enough to "trickle down" and create wealth for the rest of us, via mythical job-creators, They are job creators for overseas sweat-shops.

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

@ gsw : WTF d'you mean "correct" ?!

'fucos' sprouts BS like "If people paid their mortgage - there would have been no collapse." (abject and utter unmitigated bunkum) and you {despite a decent comment!} come up with "Correct" !! WTF are you on ?!

Will you peeps PLEASE watch "Inside Job" at the earliest possible opportunity ...

a) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28189.htm & give it a minute for the page to load ;

b) http://www.zerohedge.com/article/watch-inside-job-wall-street-horror-movie-free-0 or ..

c) http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/ (esp. poster teenager's post!) .

fiat lux ...

[-] 1 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

i just want to see where we agree and disagree. our behaviors and actions are based on our human needs. our need for economic security is a need. correct in that it was a house of cards, musical chairs, and people can't pay mortgages cause the economic system isn't working at the moment, and has not for the last many years--the 1 percent have sucked us dry. We can't have an American life-style on 3rd world wages, which is what the 1 percent would be happy for us to take. Hence, if it is not reformed really soon, I'm afraid of riot and revolution. We gotta right our ship, before it sinks

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

@ 'gsw' : Mate, PLEASE try to watch "Inside Job" !! Happy Hols to U & yours !

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

SO let me get this straight- A person makes the calculation he wants to buy a house, he signs a mortgage obligation to repay the borrowed money, and it is the 1% fault ? what is this social contract you speak of? do you have a copy of it so I can see? Buying a house is a speculative venture it has risks & it has rewards like any other investment.

How about the people who gambled by taking a mortgage to go into the house flipping business? Are they not gulty? They are not 1% in most cases? They are average joe's trying to make a buck.

[-] 2 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

My life liberty and property (I keep working for the man, on this treadmill, cause the economy and economic system is fundamentally rigged to fail, when it is not looking out for the common good, as it is now) is developed under his arbitrary and made-up rules; property (the value of my materials, goods, and home) are being stolen by the 1 percent, abetted by the government,to their own selfish ends, in violation of the social contract.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

Locke argued that individuals would agree to form a state that would provide a "neutral judge", acting to protect the lives, liberty, and property of those who lived within it.

The 1 percent want to have it all.

When I buy a home, I calculate, based on history, that certain truths are in effect in America, that there is regulations on banks and markets by government doing it's job (and the bankers-1 percent want no regulation and are paying the government to see things there way) and that our economic system has some underlying rules and fairness, that there will be a middle class upon which can purchase my home at the end of my attempts to purchase it from banks, which are charging egregious fees and intrests, to which I agreed, assuming the econmy can perform it's basic functions, and so all people can have a chance to succeed in this economy. Now there is no upward mobility. There is no growing middle class. In fact, it is going backwards, which really as an American in a great country of wealth, we are told to believe in. Well, the dream is dying for the middle class, cause the 1 percent don't want a middle class. They want it all. The social contract is the means where they agree to not have all the power, like the magna carta, medieval europe the middle class demanded their rights to self-government. This is being thwarted by the 1 percent, and hidden as "the marvelous rule of the divine capitalistic markets" . Well, the system won't work if the middle class aren't happy economically able to meet their needs. Cause the social contract is violated, the system is not prospering for average Americans. Now homes are no more than a speculative investment (as the bankers see it) what will there be left for the common person to speculate upon. We need a little less risk, so we are letting the bankers and 1 percent beware there obligations, as they may have forgotten.

The flippers, by definition, were flip. They were crazy, and I was not a flipper, but a plain person buying my home. I guess I have no right that it's economic value go one way or the other. But I do hope that at some point I can keep enough to buy it, and not just keep extending the mortgage, cause I need to refinance, cause my meager middle-class salary does not pay the bills: heat, insurance, interest, medical, economic necessities for me, who's profit trickles up to the 1 percent

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

past performance is no guarantee of future performance. That's in every prospectus ever printed. I agree with Hobbes. He is speaking of the State. The State is not living up to their obligation yet the focus of OWS is on the 1%.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

because the 1 percent and the State, are now like the same creature, as the 1 percent can throw enough money into the system, to own the state The state is doing the dirty work of the 1 percent, and if the idividual legislators can take the fall (get voted out), they are still rewarded through lobbying jobs, and immune for prosecution.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

the 99% has the votes though. Tea Party picked up 80 seats in the House in 2010 and changed the course of history. We will pick up the senate & perhaps the WH in2012 and then we can unwind this socialist disaster taking place.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

Then long live the serfs!

[-] 0 points by ithink (761) from York, PA 7 years ago

ah, sadly, no. I am doing more than the work of one person lately, as I suspect many others are as well. Don't get me wrong, I take pride in my work and my work ethic. Also, I am pro self-governement and wish not to be part of any group. Weak is relative, so I suppose that is a judgement call. We all have our areas of strengths and weaknesses. That being said, you are correct on one count. I did not answer the question. It is not my opinion that the 1% has stopped me from achieving my goals. It is my opinion that they could not stop me even if they wanted to. It is also my opinion that the last 40 years of deregulation has caused all hell to break loose. I am more interested in fighting for individual freedom than corporate freedom.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

great - so you want more regulations. How come the SEC didnt catch Bernie Madoff? or MF Global? Or the BP Oil Spill? There are plenty of regulations in place. Remember Sarbanes Oxley in the early 2000's? Did nothing except chase capital out of NYSE to London exchange. Did Dodd Frank address the real problem? did it restore Glass Steagal? NO - So instead of aiming at the wrong target - aim at your government.

[-] 1 points by buphiloman (840) 7 years ago

They've bought the government that was supposed to be safeguarding my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, and turned into their person wealth generation system.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

right. so why are you not aiming at the govt who was bought?

[-] 1 points by buphiloman (840) 7 years ago

What would be the point? When someone buys your house out from under you, you can burn down the house (which might make you feel a little better for a while but you still won't have a house), or you can take action against the asshole and get your house back.

I'd rather take the government back, than burn it down.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

always someone else to blame. pathetic.

[-] 1 points by Pelle (21) 7 years ago

To be promoted within the system you have to kiss ass. It is not based on knowledge. Leadership qualities are considered to be able and kiss ass. Fuck your system.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

how about if you are a talented architect? Are you telling me you cant make a nice living?

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 7 years ago

Where to start, for one, when I was sent here to the earth to live among my fellow men, I sure didnt expect them to claim the earth for themselves, and me having to pay them as much as 1 million dollars for a bare acre of land near enough to the city where I can work to make payments for it. Shall I start there? 2ndly, I see much open land in the city that hasnt been improved and I wonder to myself, why the hell isnt anyone letting people who lost their homes move there, and pitch a tent or something? OH ya, cause they have to pay that rich person who is hogging that part of the earth first.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

wow! you were able to pay a million bucks for an acre of land? congratulations! you are the 1% lol! : >

[-] 1 points by freewriterguy (882) 7 years ago

no i simply called the number on this corner lot in a residential area, thinking it would go cheap cause it was on a busy street, he said he wanted a million dollars for it, and to this day its still empty, and there could be some poor or homeless people sleeping there in the new government I envision.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

ah - so you envision a new government. Yet you join OWS which is aiming @ there 1% and not the government. It sounds to me like your aim is off. What a confusing movement. No wonder you people are so angy. You are very confused lol!

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 7 years ago

Have you stopped beating your wife?

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

hahahaha! that's pretty funny. Guaranteed you are a single woman who cant keep a man lol! No wonder you are so angry lol! lighten up & enjoy life a little.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 7 years ago

you don't get it

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I dont get it? yet you are the one occupying.

[-] 1 points by trebor58 (2) from Titusville, FL 7 years ago

My company's self insured health plan violated state insurance subrogation laws and stole $35,000 from me and the only way to fight it is through Federal court which very costly. Our nations laws work only for the rich that can afford good lawyers.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

well it seems the system is working - they are going to court. What more do you expect?

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 7 years ago

You assume that achieving one's dreams is independent of the system and that one's achievements are 100% driven by personal attributes. One can do everything right on their end but still be foiled by a corrupt system. If you really believe that there is no destructive corruption in the US system, then you are incredibly naive.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I am a great believer in luck. It seems the harder I work the more luck I seem to have. Life is 10% what happens to you & 90% what you do about it

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 7 years ago

Your 10/90 is superficial anecdotal folklore. In complex environments, such as our economic system, 10/90 is just downright silly. You haven't thought deeply about luck (randomness).

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 7 years ago

How's this. Shit happens. You have to react to it the best you can while at the same time following the sometimes moronic dogmatic rules that society has set in place.Any better for you princess?

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 7 years ago

yes, you can react, and react, and react.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

works for me

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 7 years ago

yes, shallow thought works for many.

..until it doesn't

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Yes - all the dissatisfied miserable deep thinkers - that's the way to go. There is nothing new here. All been tried before. Misery loves company. This is the island of misfit toys.

[-] 1 points by IslandActivist (191) from Keaau, HI 7 years ago

My dream was to receive medical care for my disability. But alas, it isn't free to go to the hospital and not a single insurance company will pitch in. *tear

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

So you are not poor enough to qualify for medicaid? Do you expect free car insurance also? You want me to pay I suppose.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Sociopathic enough to make a comment like that but entirely too chickenshit to defend it. You twisted little piece of shit.

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 7 years ago

I suppose you want the government(or anyone) to get rid of any and all debt you have right?

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Bored, Jeremy?

[-] 1 points by kingscrossection (1203) 7 years ago

Who the hell is Jeremy?

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

N0 !!! While your empty head is jammed up your jacksey - we'd like you take another bite outtta your own (x) and choke on your own SH!T !! Jus' sayin' !

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[-] 1 points by IslandActivist (191) from Keaau, HI 7 years ago

LOL. Are you offering to pay for my health insurance?

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 7 years ago

ayn rand is the devil.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

intelligent answer. well reasoned .

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 7 years ago

lol i thought someone might appreciate my sentiment.

[-] 1 points by OccupyLink (529) 7 years ago

Most of the 1% are arrogant swine who are laughing at us.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 7 years ago

In essence, I would guess that everyone's dream of personal success has a background of a fair, just democracy in which to enjoy that dream -- pride in America, even. What has developed with the current rigged system is that we live in a greatly diminished world -- rising poverty, broken infrastructure, terrible education, dependence on foreign oil, etc. -- so a very small few can live in a grandiose, over-the-top lifestyle. I can't imagine anyone with a heart enjoying their dream, once they see what has happened, especially when the circumstances can be changed.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Occupy must be against Public education sisnce we spend more per student on education and it is still failing. OWS is against the Keystone pipeline so you cant complain about jobs or lack of domestic oil. We live in a Republic not a democracy. Rising poverty? Most food stamps ever under Obama, Rigged how? How has the 1% stopped you personally from succeeding?

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 7 years ago

Nothing stopped me, but I lived and worked in a country that provided a good, affordable education, and in which I never had to be concerned about getting a job. There was always work available, and it paid well enough for me to have anything I needed. I am now retired, and I don't see that the working people today have that security, and I do see the charts that show the income disparity today is much, much greater than it was when I was working. No one person is stopped from succeeding; hundreds of thousands are.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I rest my case. so there are 100's of thousand in the 1% - wow! that's a lot of people doing pretty well! what a great country we livie in !

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 7 years ago

1.93 percent of the population makes more than 250,000, according to a video presented showing that taxing isn't the answer and cutting spending isn't the answer. Unfortunately, the video did not propose an answer. My point was not that hundreds of thousands were doing well, but that hundreds of thousands have been impoverished in a very short period of time.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

no-one is impoverished in the U.S. food stamps public housing medicaid etc. If you are going hungry it's your own fault for not seeking help.

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 7 years ago

Oh, well, as long as one can eat and is housed, what more does one need in life. I should have thought of that myself.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

if you want more - go earn it. what do you expect - everyone else to subsidize a "comfortable" life for you? why doesn't everyone do that then? where is the incentive? safety net yes - entitlement to a comfortable life - no

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 7 years ago

There are many people who are more than willing to earn it; unfortunately they have lost their jobs and are having trouble finding another.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so how does demonizing the 1% help create jobs? The very people you are relying on for a job - you are villainizing. Ever heard the expression dont bite the hand that feeds you?

[-] 1 points by Phanya2011 (908) from Tucson, AZ 7 years ago

I have no intention of demonizing anybody; I just would like to see the rules of the road apply to everybody and a revised tax structure that brings the Code into the 21st century, adjusting incentives now and then to make sure they are still needed by the entities being given incentives. To say I am a member of the 99% who would like to see changes in our system is in no way a demonization of the remaining 1% who like it the way it is.

[-] 1 points by ropeknot (359) 7 years ago

My Personal account :

I , as many , work for a place that requires me to sign a paper where as any idea or invention I come up with is automatically theirs because I am employed by them !

I am a mechanic , and am payed good because of my abilities and ambitiousness .

I make things for "my self only" because of this rule of employment ; Whereby society does not advance from my possible gifts to it because of this rule .

If I come up with a life changing invention , society will not experience it or anything that came from it because of this rule .

I , as I have said , am payed more than most jobs out there , there fore stay where I am employed .

At this wage , I haven't been able to quit and start my own business to prosper from my own ideas , which may or may not make me a living !

If I were to try , my employer has the right to say I had this idea while in their employ , whereby taking my idea and efforts unto their own .

Why should I try then ?

I'll do for me , and to hell with the 1% and society !

The O.W.S. movement is here to change the stupid stagnating rules that is our present government .

I hope we succeed !

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

on one hand you say you are paid nicely. on the other hand you resent your employer for making you sign an agreement. you made your choice - live with it.

[-] 1 points by Crimzon (91) from Arizona City, AZ 7 years ago
[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

just looking at the link msn/NYT - left wing commie garbage - I dont even need to waste my time

[-] 1 points by urkidden (2) 7 years ago

They make millions by trading their stocks and commodities among them selves. At the same time they hold billions in their coffers hoping the congress will loosen the restraints on their hair brained ideas that got us in this mess in the first place. Invest in people, training and jobs will boost this economy.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33799) from Coon Rapids, MN 7 years ago

This is why we are here this is why you are needed.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/

Share, circulate, educate, inspire.

[-] 1 points by Crater (1) 7 years ago

This pdf has some great information about what exactly the 1% has been writing off. Like 9 billion dollars in 3 years from gambling losses!

There are more ridiculous figures on the 1%'s welfare earnings.

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/SubsidiesoftheRichandFamous.pdf

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Let;s take gambling losses - when you win - do you pay taxes on the winnings? losses offset winnings. did they mention that? If you dont like it - tell your congressman to change the law! Should a person not take advantage of the situation if it is legal? Go Occupy the IRS !

[-] 1 points by warbstar (210) 7 years ago

All focus01 is doing is baiting OWS members to get a reaction. Anybody that has a brain knows how their family, neighbor, and others have been impacted by a reduction of opportunity and job security.

I would never waste my time giving specific and personal details to such a hater.

If I were to provide specific examples then focus01 will just predictably use the typical "blame the victim" tactic. This kind of poisonous hate is what the 1%'ers and their cronies want to spread.

The 1%’ers are fully aware of how they have attacked the 99%. They and their cronies are just playing the ignorance card.

They are scared because in less than three months OWS has changed the debate from how to get away with mass-murder to the reality of OWS’ers demanding justice. Justice. It's a foriegn word to the 1%. For them it is about avoiding the demands of justice and transferring the cost onto the backs of the victims.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so you are a victim? victim how? without specifics how can we get to the root of the problem. your just spouting talking points from the Alinsky playbook. this is just a collective temper tantrum of spoiled children.

[-] 1 points by humanprogress (55) 7 years ago

The root of global problems is money and power. No need to ask this question, you know it. If you don't, you need to think this by yourself.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so - you again - another one who wont answer the question. Thank you & Merry Christmas.

[-] 1 points by 1169 (204) 7 years ago

look in ur bank account

[-] 1 points by warbstar (210) 7 years ago

If you have to ask then you are demonstrating your ignorance. Go back to grade school, learn to read, and get an education. Then ask something intelligent.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

as I suspected - you cant answer the question & dont know what you are doing as part of the occupy movement. following the mob. try thinking for yourself.

[-] 1 points by warbstar (210) 7 years ago

Again. Do your own homework. Your ignorance at just asking such a question is boundless.

Baiting isn't going to get me to stoop to your level either.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

as suspected - cant answer the question

[-] 1 points by rayl (1007) 7 years ago

the 1 % haven't caused me to fail at all. but through their reckless pursuit of wealth have inflicted hardship on millions of people on this planet and they need to be controlled so it won't happen again.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

how so? please explain with some detail. besides ranting the popular talking points.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

it's not all that common. that;s my point. people have gotten swept away in the hype so I am asking for people to asses how the 1% has prevented them personally from succeeding. no one can answer the question. Or - they admit - it hasnt caused them t fail like yourself.

[-] 1 points by geno52 (18) 7 years ago

I went to work for an airline in 1972. I was 20yo. I left College and hitched my wagon to this airline as it was the best offer I was could see in that years job market. The pay was good, the benefits were good and the promise of an early retirement that would allow me to live out my golden years in dignity sealed the deal. I stayed for 36 years.

In 1994 the employee group took concessions in pay, benefits and work rules totaling about a 20% cut in exchange for an employee stock ownership plan. (esop) The plan gave the employee groups 55% ownership in the Company after a six year period of concessions so that the Company would emerge more fit to compete. They made unprecedented profits during that time and in 2000 we fully expected to be rewarded with contracts that restored our compensation levels. Instead, management went on a spending spree and it was obvious to us that they were pitching cash overboard in order to get into bankruptcy court. The GOP had taken over every branch of the Federal Gov't and labor had no friends anywhere in Washington.

Thousands of baby boomer employees hired in my era were getting ready to retire not realizing the changes that were made to defined benefit plan oversight that necessitated the creation of the PBGC and made it easier for companies to underfund their pension plans was soon to come into play. Curious, isn't it, that all this is happening to pension plans as the largest generation of workers in history is about to retire?

Now, the airline was making statements about "hemmoraging money" and the economy is in a downturn when 911 happens. This set the stage for the airline to go into bankruptcy and take everything they wanted from us, no questions asked. They stole our 55% ownership back from us, no questions. They dumped our pensions, no questions. Rewrote every aspect of our contracts, no questions. When they came out of bankruptcy it was obvious that they wanted the old timers gone. We were the enemy. There was no incentive to stay, so I left. If you look around, everything that happened to us has now happened to everyone else in the middle class. The 1% has been generously rewarded for it.

You no doubt believe that I could have funded my own retirement but that becomes hard when you're taking a 20% cut to fund the esop plan which makes you ineligible to put anything else in a before tax plan such as a 401 k or ira. The stock I accumulated in the esop could not be touched until I reached age 59 1/2. By then the value had gone from $60 per share to 13 cents. There are programs out there that will trace the history of this crime. Frontline did a good one called Can You Afford To Retire? O'Rourke just did a nice segment on Gerald Arpey who left American Airlines with no compensation of any kind to protest the latest airline bankruptcy. At least he was a CEO with character. Do your homework before you try to defend the mgmt of my former company. I was there. I did my time as a Union Rep. I knew that what happened was criminal. And, it happens every day in America. The 1% are responsible and the word is spreading.

I'm not lazy, and I'm not whining. I have worked my entire life. I drive a schoolbus now, to make ends meet. I will never realize my dream of a decent retirement.

[-] 1 points by outsidethebox (27) from Dorset, VT 7 years ago

29.9% interest rates on credit cards doesn't help

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

why would you use a credit card with 29.9% interest? that's gangster rates.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 7 years ago

I did retrain - I was a retailer clerk for five years at 1/3 the pay - until the economy killed the store

[-] 1 points by supermut (2) 7 years ago

It doesn't matter- soon there won't be any 1% left to worry about. focus on that one. lol

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

and some how - you will be better off without the 1% ? Tell me how.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Gothenburg, NE 7 years ago

I have a solution to create the new economy, but since I was born after all the land was grabbed, I'm left paying rent before I can create income.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

doesn't answer the question

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Gothenburg, NE 7 years ago

How do I create income if I have to pay rent to the ones who "own the land"?

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

funny - most people seem to manage. your name says it all - dreaming! This is reality wake up.

[-] 1 points by dreamingforward (394) from Gothenburg, NE 7 years ago

Most? Is that right? Do most Native people "manage"? Seems to me they're waiting for YOU to "wake up" and notice that "you can't eat money".

You have $14T in debt, you've spent a billion years of solar surplus capital in the space of a few centuries, you've allowed the "principles on which we stand" to be eroded (refer again to Native Americans), and you say I have a reality wake-up?

You're just another idiot.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

yea - most. Real unemployment rate is 18%. That leave 82% still working. The malls are still packed, restaurants still packed ball games still packed etc. true albiet not as it was a few years ago but MOST business has gone on. Thats at least 51% if you need me to spoon feed it to you.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

by setting up a system that diminished the amount of jobs available in order to accumulate money for themselves.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

that's the way the world works always has. adapt or die. or I suppose OWS will change all that lol!

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

you have been taken in by propaganda if you actually believe that is the way it works.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

doesn't answer the question "Tell me precisely how the 1% has stopped you from achieving your dream."?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 7 years ago

did answer the question. thats what they did, on purpose knowingly engaged in activities intended to cause jobs to be eliminated for thier increased net worth. thats the answer.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

conspiracy theory paranoia. "Tell me precisely how the 1% has stopped you from achieving your dream".

[-] 1 points by BearDickinson (125) from Ewing, VA 7 years ago

the vote - the 1 % has unfair influence on elections with MONEY. and - of the 99 % we have less voters - one thing we might consider is - GET OUT THE VOTE - register people and encourage people to vote. For the Occupy Movement to succeed - we gotta GET OUT THE VOTE ! Encourage people to vote or register to vote and be informed - democracy is NOT a spectator sport. the power of our 99 % will never be a realized unless we GET OUT THE VOTE ! "Furthermore, there are enormous disparities that exist in America across income levels in all forms of participation, particularly voting. A study on these disparities found that 86% of people with incomes above $75,000 claim to have voted in presidential elections as compared with only 52% of people with incomes under $15,000. As a result of the participation disparity across demographic lines, politicians are more responsive to the opinions of high-income constituents. A study of roll call votes under the 107th and 108th Congresses reported that legislators were three times more responsive to high-income constituents than middle-income constituents and were the least responsive to the needs of low-income constituents." http://www.fairvote.org/

peace, hope and love to all,

bear

[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

sounds like you should be occupying your congressman. but -you didnt answer the question - sorry

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 7 years ago

My problem has nothing to do with the 1%. My problem is with the .000001%

They run the country and extract wealth form our society.

[-] 1 points by occupypuppies (71) 7 years ago

I have so much student debt that I can't have an apartment or a car and I cannot travel.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

and that is the1% fault? what did you major in?

[-] 1 points by CrowPotkin (22) from Holbrook, NY 7 years ago

The 1% has created a bevy of laws at the behest of large lobbying organizations which create licensing requirements, zoning restrictions, and a variety of other market-entry barriers for low-income/non-capitalized artisans/skilled workers like myself. I am a massage therapist who works with low-income catastrophic injury survivors, and virtually none of the barriers put into place on the behalf of a small group that would prefer to keep entry into the market limited actually protect those injury survivors. The result has been artificially inflated insurance rates for myself and my clients, barriers to capitalization (I have all of the capital I need-- a home, a spare office, table, chair, etc., but I can't use the capital without jumping through hoops and raising a large amount of funds), as well as other issues that exist.

Capital and State are inseparable, and they are hardly antagonistic-- any honest analysis would show as much, at least.

[-] 1 points by CrowPotkin (22) from Holbrook, NY 7 years ago

It should go without saying that the conditions created are ones that force me into a place where I either operate on the underground (which I have achieved, with some limited success) or I have to completely abrogate any sense of autonomy and self-direction, and jump through the hoops placed before me. And then, even once I have those hoops behind me, they will again rear their ugly head, driving up my own living costs and creating a burden that will eventually need to be passed on to my clients in some fashion or another if I choose to remain self-employed.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Hm - I thought the government creates laws? Silly me. I should hold accountable ceo's of companies who's job is to make money instead of holding my government responsible who took an oath and are accountable to the people. How could I have gotten it backwards like that?

[-] 1 points by CrowPotkin (22) from Holbrook, NY 7 years ago

Indeed, how could you, unless you've actually explored the history of existing regulatory infrastructure? How could you know that historically viewed, large firms have used the State as a means to cartelize the market, eroding the ability for smaller, agile, worker-oriented firms ability to survive, unless you've actually involved yourself with material relating to it? Acting like Capital is a benign partner to the State that only passively benefits from the construction of market entry-barriers is the height of naivete, and is can only be viewed as realistic through a lens that distorts the very nature and relation of State and Capital.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so go occupy congress where you can have some influence. they are the ones accountable to you. big business could care less about what ows has to say.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 7 years ago

EPA tells nation's dirty power plants to clean up

By DINA CAPPIELLO, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — Clean up or shut down.

That's the decision facing hundreds of the nation's oldest and dirtiest power plants under an Environmental Protection Agency rule announced Wednesday that will force plants to control mercury and other toxic pollutants for the first time.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article /ALeqM5gqGSBZVEEDWOwc0BpDMB3KgqvGvQ?docId=f9ba3f5e915c49098578e24999536b3e

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 7 years ago

Dec. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of America Corp. will pay a record $335 million to compensate Countrywide Financial Corp. borrowers who were charged more for home loans based on race.

http://news.businessweek.com/article.asp?documentKey=1376-LWKF7I07SXL101-4RLI4IR59UMQS6KHIPFENO2BHV

[-] 1 points by Anachronism (225) 7 years ago

The schizophrenia of libertarians

Wait a minute. I thought our economic problems were from too much government "interventions" how can it be all the individuals fault, if the government is ruining the economy.

[-] 1 points by BlueRose (1437) 7 years ago

Read my whole other post about it if you want examples. http://occupywallst.org/forum/devices-the-1-use-to-keep-the-99-down-please-contr/

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 7 years ago

They over priced everything.

[-] 1 points by BLUTODOG (111) 7 years ago

My drug prescription plan just doubled the co-pays for some of the necessary drugs I'm being prescribed. DOUBLED! Last time I looked there wasn't a 100% inflation rate. Oh well. It's pay or die. This is simply greed and nothing else. I see this happening everywhere in society were these bastards can essentially extort the money from us. We have a criminal class of vicious punks now in charge of almost everything.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

what happened? I thought Obamacare was going to solve all these problems ?

[-] 0 points by BLUTODOG (111) 7 years ago

What does Obamacare have to do with this? Obamacare does NOTHING to reign in costs. NOTHING it's a sham. The man sold us all out to the F*CKING greedy ass Ins. monopolies and Drug Companies.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I would say I told you so but we hadnt been acquainted yet. So who are you aiming at Obama or the insurance companies? who made you the promise?

[-] 1 points by BLUTODOG (111) 7 years ago

Both! WTF? Don't you understand what CORPORATISM is?

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

you brought up drug prescription costs no? Isnt Obamacare suposed to fix the problems in healthcare?

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@ focus01...Income inequality prevented my children from attending collage...If you don't know about the income inequality in the US then how would you judge this so called exercise.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

really? Income inequality didn't stop me from going to the State college or getting a job at night to pay for it in cash. Their is always government aid & student loans. there is no excuse these days to not be able to afford college. or how about a trade school?

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01..Then your okay with income inequality...

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I dont give it much thought. I dont care if someone has a gazzillion dollars - I think about how I can earn enough myself to keep my standard of living were I want it. I dont place the blame on anyone but myself. Poor people are not poor because rich people are rich. you cant multiply wealth by dividing it. the left loves to put everyone into groups and compare one group to another. rather than supporting the individual & the actions they take to help themselves be independent. So what - if you double the taxes on the 1% to say 70% fed income only - and you dont see income inequality change then what? Do you really think tax the rich is going to help you one bit?

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01......Then you have no understanding of world economics or fair and equatable wealth sharing..........................I suggest before you start pontificating, you educate yourself in these areas. So you won't sound so foolish.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I'm with Milton Friedman - was he educated enough for ya?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01............ You picked the wrong horse again...LOL... During the financial crisis of 2007–2010, several Keynesian economists such as James Galbraith and Joseph Stiglitz blamed the free market philosophy of Friedman and the Chicago school for the economic turmoil.

Influenced by his close friend George Stigler, Friedman opposed government regulation of many types. He once stated that his role in eliminating U.S. conscription was his proudest accomplishment, and his support for school choice led him to found The Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice. Friedman's political philosophy, which he considered classically liberal and libertarian, emphasized the advantages of free market economics and the disadvantages of government intervention and regulation, strongly influencing the opinions of American conservatives and libertarians.

But classical economics offered neither explanations nor solutions for the Great Depression. By the middle of the 1930s, the challenges to orthodoxy could no longer be contained. Keynes played the role of Martin Luther, providing the intellectual rigor needed to make heresy respectable. Although Keynes was by no means a leftist—he came to save capitalism, not to bury it—his theory said that free markets could not be counted on to provide full employment, creating a new rationale for large-scale government intervention in the economy.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Of course your socialist economists disagree with Friedman LOL! First of all - we are not operating in a free market. the banking industry is one of the the most heavily regulated industry out there. The problem was repealling Glass Steagal & at the same time the government via Freddie & Frannie & the Community Reinvestment Aact making banks loosen lending standards to accomodate their social engineering experiment of having more people be able to own their own homes. you cant deregulate & meddle in the market at the same time .

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01...Your absolutely ignorant of the facts concerning the housing collapse, even after I gave you the FBI report on Mortgage Fraud, I find this incredible.................

This should put to bed your uniformed opinion that CRA was responsible for the housing crisis, please read it.

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reported in 2011 that Fannie & Freddie "contributed to the crisis, but were not a primary cause." GSE mortgage securities essentially maintained their value throughout the crisis and did not contribute to the significant financial firm losses that were central to the financial crisis. The GSEs participated in the expansion of subprime and other risky mortgages, but they followed rather than led Wall Street and other lenders into subprime lending.

The Glass-Steagall Act was enacted after the Great Depression. It separated commercial banks and investment banks, in part to avoid potential conflicts of interest between the lending activities of the former and rating activities of the latter. Economist Joseph Stiglitz criticized the repeal of the Act. He called its repeal the "culmination of a $300 million lobbying effort by the banking and financial services industries...spearheaded in Congress by Senator Phil Gramm." He believes it contributed to this crisis because the risk-taking culture of investment banking dominated the more conservative commercial banking culture, leading to increased levels of risk-taking and leverage during the boom period.

Conservatives and Libertarians have also debated the possible effects of the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), with detractors claiming that the Act encouraged lending to uncreditworthy borrowers, and defenders claiming a thirty year history of lending without increased risk. Detractors also claim that amendments to the CRA in the mid-1990s, raised the amount of mortgages issued to otherwise unqualified low-income borrowers, and allowed the securitization of CRA-regulated mortgages, even though a fair number of them were subprime.

Federal Reserve Governor Randall Kroszner and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Chairman Sheila Bair have stated their belief that the CRA was not to blame for the crisis.

Economist Paul Krugman argued in January 2010 that the simultaneous growth of the residential and commercial real estate pricing bubbles undermines the case made by those who argue that Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, CRA or predatory lending were primary causes of the crisis. In other words, bubbles in both markets developed even though only the residential market was affected by these potential causes.

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reported in January 2011 that "the CRA was not a significant factor in subprime lending or the crisis. Many subprime lenders were not subject to the CRA. Research indicates only 6% of high-cost loans—a proxy for subprime loans—had any connection to the law. Loans made by CRA-regulated lenders in the neighborhoods in which they were required to lend were half as likely to default as similar loans made in the same neighborhoods by independent mortgage originators not subject to the law."

The George W. Bush administration was accused of blocking ongoing state investigations into predatory lending practices as the bubble continued to grow.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

FBI - like you have access to the FBI lol! Tower of Babble. I am not even going to waste my time with you you are so off the mark. I work in a bank. I know exactly what happened.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01...Your an obvious Troll.

[-] 1 points by Vooter (441) 7 years ago

"So why do you care what other people are doing if it doesn't affect your pursuit of happiness?"

LOL...this has to be the dumbest thing I've ever read. The fact that other people are murdered, robbed, raped, ripped off and otherwise abused every minute of every day doesn't affect my pursuit of happiness, but I still care about it, and I still want the perpetrators of those acts to be brought to justice. What are you, an idiot?

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

murder rape robbery ripped off how? are not the same thing. and those things do affect your pursuit and the proper role of govt is to protect against those things. Has little to do with the question though. So Vooter - how is the 1% preventing you from achieving your American Dream? Be specific now

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so the American Dream is still achievable but it's not enough? who's being greedy now?

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Since 1980, if the average working family had received compensation based on its relative contribution to America's prosperity, it would be making an average of $45,000 a year instead of $35,000. Through 30 years of deregulation and financial maneuvering, the richest 1% have taken $10,000 a year from every American family. That's socialism in reverse.~Common Dreams

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

you cant stay at the same skill level and keep up with a growing economy. you have to constantly up your game, get higher skills etc. When I was a young kid my dad was a Bank teller supporting a new family. you cant do that today. Had he not gone to school at night & learned computer programming skills where would we be? Had my mom not gone to Nursing school were would we be? Had my mom not driven a school bus when she couldnt get a Nursing job where would we be? When bills got tight had my dad not taught computer programming at night as a second job where would we be? All I hear is excuses & pointing the blame elsewhere. STOP IT!!!!

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

I'm not the one dealing in absolute positions and refuse to address both sides of the issue. Meet me halfway on the subject of personal responsibility vs societal responsibility and I'll converse with you.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

no reply. oh well. I guess he didn't want to meet me halfway.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

ok - Society has a responsibility to provide a basic safety net. I would argue that today we have gone way beyond that. No one is starving here unless they are unnable to ask for help. sure there are people wandering the street but most of it is due to mental illness or drugs. you will never cure all of societys ills. take a look at this short video & let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Yes, Milton Friedman is a libertarian, but where did the philosophy begin and what is at it's core principle.

I along with 2/3 of the country support raising taxes on millionaires. Do you? Before you answer consider this,

“We are all at a table together, deciding which rules to adopt, free from any vague constraints, half-remembered myths, anonymous patriarchal texts and murky concepts of nature. If I propose something you do not like, tell me why it is not practical, or harms somebody, or is counter to some other useful rule; but don't tell me it offends the universe"~Jonathan Wallace

Will you give me a practical answer?

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

of course 2/3 of the people want to tax the rich - it's always the guy making more than you are. It's always the other fellow that is greedy. What's fair is a flat tax. everyone should have skin in the game. talk about divisive - two societies - nothing is more divisive than our progressive tax structure. you think 50% of ones income to pay in taxes is not enough? No one should be forced to give more than 1/2 of what they work for. Please !

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Here's a comparison of Obama & Ronald Reagan on raising taxes. Be fair and watch the whole thing. I guess Reagan agrees with me.

http://vodpod.com/watch/15505462-ronald-reagan-agrees-with-obama-on-taxes-for-the-wealthy

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

sure - and during the 80's the bottom 50% paid a lot more than they do today. today the bottom 50% pay 3% of the IRS taxes collected - The bottom 47% pay zero and some still get a refund. you tell me - what is a fair share of ones productivity. for someone earning over $200,000 per year. Because when Obama speaks he uses the words millionaires & billionaires, when he proposes the tax rate increase it starts at $200,000

If you want to get rid of deductions fine. but that applies to everybody.

The fairest tax is a flat tax.

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

No one can tell you what the exact fair share is, it's a preposterous question, and highly debatable. I don't deal in absolutes remember. The fact that you are still trying to get me to deal in absolutes drives me nuts. A progressive tax is proportional to your income and seems fairest to me, maybe not to you. The bottom line is that fair is debatable, not absolute.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

right fair is debatable. and if 99% want to debate what is fair for the 1% to pay in taxes that is absurd! of course the 99% want to make the indefensible 1% pay more. Mob rule! what do you think the 1% will do in response to that? do you think they will still put their money at risk to start new businesses? or will they move there capital overseas?

[-] 2 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

The flip side of that is defending the fairness for the 1% to debate what is fair for the other 99% to pay in taxes, which sounds even more absurd, and not unlike the description of a plutocracy. A plutocracy goes against everything American values stand for. America is about freedom, equality, & democracy, and yes, opportunity & wealth. I have nothing against somebody's success and wealth, but a plutocracy that oppresses other's rights for opportunities and democracy I firmly object to.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

go ahead - lobby to confiscate the wealth of the 1% and see what happens. they will just move overseas and invest where it is appreciated. it's already happening. good luck. look at Detroit !

[-] 1 points by JadedCitizen (4277) 7 years ago

Why thank you sir for your blessing, now I can proceed with a clear conscience that you are on board with me in practicing my democratic rights. Nice to have you on the team.

[-] 1 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

Income taxes do tilt upward. But they're the progressive bit of the federal tax wedge. Other federal taxes, like the payroll tax and the excise tax, are not progressive. (And we're not even going to get into state income, which are frequently regressive) That's why CBO calculates something called the "effective federal tax rate." The EFTR is simply a households’ federal tax liability divided by its income. The four taxes that are included in the measure are the income, payroll, excise, and corporate taxes. And they give us a pretty good idea of whether the rich really are overpaying. The following graph matches each income quintile's effective federal tax rate with its percentage of the national income. See if you think the rich are getting a bad deal:

When you look at percentage of total tax liabilities, the rich do in fact bear a heavier burden. But it's because they have so much more money. They are not bearing a heavier burden as a percentage of their incomes. They're bearing it in relation to everyone else's incomes. Indeed, it's only because the sheer levels of income inequality in this country are frankly unintuitive that Fleischer can even write this sort of dreck. People hear that the top 20 percent pay almost 70 percent of the country's income taxes and nod their head. That's unfair! But it mainly seems unfair because people don't know the top 20 percent accounts for almost 60 percent of the national income.

Posted by Ezra Klein on April 13, 2009

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?mo...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8342832

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Ezra Klein is a lefty. Anyway - when someone is paying more than 50% in combined taxes Thats too much. I dont care how much they have. I have a right to keep more of what I produce than the government period. Your suggesting the government has a right to a bigger share of my production than I do and I am the one producing the wealth in the first place! And what are they going to do with that money anyway? Are you happy with how the government spends our money?

[-] 1 points by gsw (3258) from Woodbridge Township, NJ 7 years ago

The top 20 percent pay 60 percent of taxes, cause they have 60 percent of the nation's income. That is a statistic.

kim kardashean "made" 12,000,000.00 twelve million last year, paid percent in federal taxes, and paid 1,200,000.00 in tax (10 percent effective rate), leaving 10,800,000.00 take home, in 1 year.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100249874

Everyone thinks some of the "priorities" are off, such as military bases in Germany, giving millionaire tax breaks, and not even funding them, corporate welfare is the worst. the spending needs to get reigned in, medicare, social security will need means-testing.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

go tell your congressman. your aim is off.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

The 1% bids up markets for real estate and then tanks them, bringing the rest of us down economically through no fault of our own. The 1% keeps prices for goods and services artificially inflated so that it takes two incomes to live comfortably. I am grateful to live comfortably at this time, especially since so many are suffering right now, but it is only because we have worked long and hard our entire lives at great personal sacrifice. There is no reason for it to be so hard just to live in a safe, secure neighborhood with reasonable schools in this day and age. Over the last thirty years, technological innovation guaranteed by the "trickle-down" theory of economics, which benefitted the 1% much more than the rest of us by lower tax rates for them only, should have assured us of the basics for a reasonable standard of living, but it hasn't, has it? For this I blame the 1%. Tell me why it is so difficult for hard-working, educated, professional people such as ourselves, to simply secure the basics of a decent life.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so what's the problem? you said you are living comfortably. What do you expect a guarantee of safety & security for your whole life? you can have that, but I guarantee you wont have nearly the same living standard as you do now.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Greater technological and entrepreneurial innovation, guaranteed by the "trickle-down" theory of economics and lower taxes on the rich (Reagan) was supposed to serve the greater good by raising living standards for all of us. Technological advancements were supposed to make EVERYONE's lives easier, not just those of the upper 1%. The deal was that greater technological advancement would reduce, not increase, our workloads. In fact, at some point in the not too distant past (during higher tax rates on the rich), it was almost embarrassingly easy to live, and perhaps because we were somewhat ashamed of ourselves, being normal, caring humans, we began to welcome a kind of "one-upsmanship" mentality in life in which we out-worked the next guy, etc. We bought into that whole myth of the 1980's. The problem was, we gave up boring but ethical banking rules, union protections, and reasonable tax rates. Perhaps we all just had a raging mid-life crisis. But now it's time to get back to reality and act like adults.

My problem is our wealth is unfairly skewed to the upper 1% and this is not a recipe for future sustained economic growth. Look at third world nations. Only a very few control the resources and everyone else lives in poverty with no free speech rights.

YES, I DO EXPECT A GUARANTEE OF SAFETY AND SECURITY MY WHOLE LIFE. I am sorry to disappoint you. Apparently you think that's unfair of me to expect this, even in today's technologically advanced environment. YES, I ABSOLUTELY EXPECT TO LIVE NORMALLY AND SECURELY. Do you have a problem with this?

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

yes - I have a problem with your thesis. no on e is guaranteed anything. If you want guarantees you will be living like the North Koreans. Trickle down or "supply side economics works. despite what your left friends think. more people improve their lives under supply side economics than any other system out there. look at history.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

The thesis of "supply side economics" or the "trickle down" is it was supposed to improve everyone's lives. Instead, the upper 1% are worth more than many countries in the world, while the rest of us 99% are working harder than we've ever had to work just to maintain a civilized way of life. Many of us don't even live as well as we used to. I don't have any "left friends." My friends are few but very decent. Please don't presume I am swayed by peer pressure in these matters.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

what have you done to hold up your end of the bargain? what are your skills?

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

My skills allowed me to earn $80,000/year over the last few years. I've saved so much I can retire early.

I don't care to share the exact nature of my skills except to say they are used in both private and public sectors, in full accordance with state and federal laws.

I am not particularly interested in how you have contributed, as your debating style speaks for itself.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Great ! Sounds like the 1% hasn't held you back at all ! Thank you for answering the question. It seems to be difficult for most lol!

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

I might not be a carbon copy of all of the other 99%. We are all individuals.

Do you understand the astronomically vast gap in terms of net worth between the lower 90% and upper 1% of our country's population? There has always been an unconscionable gap between the rich and poor, but over the last thirty years, since outsourcing and multinational corporations have completely taken over our lives, this gap has widened to historic levels. This doesn't address wealth disparities across the globe, which are even greater. You do not seem aware of present and future implications for world peace and prosperity. This certainly isn't meant in a threatening way, but from a purely pragmatic viewpoint. If you make people slave their entire lives away, future generations (who are witness to this) have a way of making us live to regret this inequity, if not through revolution, then through declining health, educational, and productivity levels. People want to be able to do a good job in whatever they do and to have their individual contributions recognized and fairly compensated, and as long as these are provided, people are happy to work hard. But this is not happening for most working people. Instead their valid concerns are treated with the same kind of contempt exemplified by responses such as yours. How sad. This is the kind of life you would condemn the 99%. We understand your very limited world view.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

If you cant keep up with progress and some do - who's fault is that? It's like constantly curving a test. All you do is dumb down the class & make them feel good about it.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

You know, I agree with you. Excellence, in any field, does exist in this world. Excellence takes many years of dedicated practice, targeted efforts, and plain old work, unless in a field like basketball or gymnastics, in which body type determines everything.

But some slaves were excellent at what they did and still weren't compensated fairly. Many very talented and dedicated people today aren't compensated fairly either. Today's highly technologically advanced societies HAVE THE MEANS to compensate people fairly for honest, quality work in whatever endeavor. This is undeniable. This is all we're asking.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so now you are comparing yourself to a slave. what an insult to African Americans lol! You can always move to one of these "Advanced Societies" you speak of. If they will have you. Good Luck. Didnt answer the question by the way

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Slavery has existed throughout human history irrespective of melanin. Did you know this? Do you know the definition of slavery? Look it up.

Was the question "If you cant keep up with progress and some do - who's fault is that?" (sic)

Do you mean to ask, "Is having a job part of human rights regardless of ability?" In other words, are you asking if I think people should be guaranteed a job even if their skills haven't kept up with technological changes in the workplace?"

The question you asked wasn't clear.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Ebri - I lost money too. It's the risk you take. There are no guarantee's in life. Time to get over it & rebuild.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

It sounds like you have relied on a lot of other people to take care of you having all your assets in places not in your own control. Again not very specific.

A "Cerdit Default Swap is an agreement that the seller of the CDS will compensate the buyer in the event of loan default. In the event of default the buyer of the CDS receives compensation (usually the face value of the loan), and the seller of the CDS takes possession of the defaulted loan. In other words - away to mitigate risk.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Did you answer my question, which was meant to clarify your original question, which was "If you can't keep up with progress and some do -- whose fault is that?"

Did you clarify your original question, or like so many others, appear to have an ulterior motive?

It may sound as if I "have relied on a lot of other people to take care of you having all your assets in places not in your own control. Again not very specific."

Like hundreds of millions of people, I followed the best advice the "financial services industry" provided, which was to save, save, save, in diversified index funds.

I'm sorry if you don't like that.

But many, many, many others did exactly what I have done. We saved, saved, saved, diversified, diversified, diversified, and tried to make sure our funds were in legitimate investments. I'm sorry if it somehow bothers you, in a disturbingly pathological, perhaps sociopathological way, that so many people acted in their own best interests according to the VERY BEST ADVICE THE FINANCIAL SERVICES INDUSTRY offered at the time.

A lone hedge fund manager, Dr. Michael Burry, diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, a form of autism which allows one to actually compute all information such as is found in fund prospectuses, determined in the early-mid 2000's that banks were headed for default based on the housing bubble and invented a financial instrument whereby people could place bets on insurance payouts resulting from defaults and make money this way. He amassed 5 billion dollars this way. So many invested in his bet it caused greater and greater market speculation by -- guess who? -- the very richest 1% -- and luckily I did not follow this in my own limited way as so many unfortunates did. Eventually this led to a great crash, in which these default investors really raked it in and the rest of us had to bail out the losers.

But you won't read this. You won't care. You'll go troll somewhere else to spread your deliberate, pathological misinformation.

You need psychological help, or to be removed from society.

I will not respond any more to any of your posts. You are ill and will not receive the help you, and the rest of us, need for your condition. My response isn't meant for you anyway. It's meant to help the sane individuals among us remember what really happened.

Please go away.

"No -- YOU go away." I know this is how you will reply. Well, I don't care. You really should stay off these forums. You are not helping the situation in any way, shape, or form.

Go away. Thank you.

Just go away.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I asked - how are the 1% preventing you specifically from succeeding?

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

They are trying to take my small monthly pension away, which isn't supplemented by social security.

They are collectively worth almost two trillion dollars and control way too much in our lives as a result. They have more power over us than our own governments.

They over-speculated in real estate and the stock market, and all the money I invested is now worth a great deal less. In case you haven't been listening to any of the news reports in the last few years, there are millions in my same position.

That's how the wealthiest 1% have ruined our lives.

What is a credit default swap? Can you answer this question?

Once you know this, then you'll know how the 1% ruined our lives.

How much money in profits are corporations and banks currently sitting on?

Once you know this answer, you'll understand how the 1% are ruining our lives.

Need I continue?

Haven't I already answered your question "How are the 1% preventing you specifically from succeeding?" Didn't you get my answer the first time?

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify my thoughts through writing. I don't really care about your response however.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn64 (337) 7 years ago

The economic growth that has occurred since 1980 is remarkable. The three legs of supply side economics are sound money policy (the most important), less government regulation and intrusion in peoples lives and a flatter tax code including eliminating deductions. Most on this board are fixating on tax policy but it is the least of the tools that administrators can use to move the economy. Back in '75 when all of the economists wanted to focus on tax policy, Reagan brought them back to the problems of money supply.As an aside, he didn't do the math behind the policies but he had incredible real life experiences that were the basis of his beliefs.

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees of safety and security in someone's life and there is no system that will do that. I think this discussion is not necessarily about economics but should be more about religion and how people should live their lives.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Please don't try to turn us into third world nations by exhorting us to resort to organized religion, superstition, and creationist world views as the only alternative to evening out incredible wealth disparities in the world.

Please don't think we will return to the Dark Ages in our thinking about living conditions, economic systems, social justice, and governance.

Anyone who tells me to resign myself to the idea that there will always be a very rich few with all the wealth continuing to dominate and control our lives is telling me to stop thinking, start praying, and submit to fear. So please stop telling us we must submit, there is no hope, and we are all supposed to be very, very afraid. It just won't work, no matter how many times you say it. It comes across as some kind of threat. Please stop trying to threaten people. There might be a few who are susceptible to it, and it is not fair to take advantage of people that way. Please act ethically.

Or, are we to take our cue from those at the very top, to act unethically because after all, they do it so it must be right?

[-] 0 points by Jflynn64 (337) 7 years ago

No one is telling you to live in fear, but I don't quite understand how the elite control your life. What are they stopping you from doing?

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

I am grateful for my present good health, which means I don't need to depend on health insurance. I am grateful to have an area of expertise which allows me to survive, so I don't have to ask someone else for food and shelter. My health and job allow me to enjoy life. If I didn't have these I would be in trouble. I've worked, saved, invested according to how experts have advised us, and am still very concerned I won't enjoy a dignified old age. Why is this?

Banks, under pressure from Wall Street, did the exact same thing they did during the 1920's, which led to predictable results. Who directs Wall Street? The very wealthy speculators bid prices up and down, and the rest of us just watch, hold our collective breath, and follow suit. Credit default swaps by insurance companies, bundling of mortgages into "opaque" financial instruments, and unethical lending practices by -- the very rich 1% -- led us into catastrophe in which we "privatized the profits and socialized the costs."

The 1% have stopped me from hoping for a dignified old age, despite my saving, scrimping, investing, working, more working, more sacrifice, and never ending sacrifice my entire life. I was hoping for a $2,600/month pension after 27 years of service in the public sector, doing a job many think is just too hard (must I disclose ALL of my personal information on this blog?) and the very elite 1% are paying lobbyists to take that away from me. I was to become eligible for this in a few years, but the 1% don't think I deserve it, despite decades of incredibly hard work and specialized training. Suddenly the public has become convinced, after thirty or more years to the contrary, that public employee pensions are to blame for our budgetary difficulties. All of a sudden my plans must change because of what the 1% is trying to make everyone else believe, that somehow public pensions are the reason we are in such fiscally trying times. Suddenly the blame has been shifted from those promoting the credit default swaps to public employees, who have never lived ostentatiously or wastefully in the past the way the bankers, insurance and bank executives, and others in the "financial services industry" have lived. This is what the 1% have done to and for me and many others like me.

The 1% have stopped young people from hoping to plan their futures. The 1% have stopped college graduates from getting a job.

I hope this answers your question.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn64 (337) 7 years ago

So your a public employee who is trying to get to retirement age and get a good pension. I work for a private company, I don't have a DB plan just a DC plan. I have never had that guarantee. I never expected it.

Why don't you start a company instead of being an employee? Take your savings and take the risk

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

I don't have social security, either. I have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars by living VERY, VERY CHEAPLY, since I knew I might lose my pension and wouldn't have social security. I am not quite as dumb as you assume I am.

I am very good at my job, work ridiculously hard at it, and take pride in it. I provide valuable service in this world and am fulfilled by it. NEWS FLASH: Slavery is no longer legal. Isn't this a good thing?

I am smart enough not to fall for your challenge to take my capital and risk it all on a small business venture. Many people thought I was dumb for not buying a nicer house during the housing boom. I knew what I was doing and will probably be all right in retirement -- certainly not opulently rich, and I'll have to work in some capacity until I die. So don't cry to me about how you "work for a private company, [and] don't have a DB just a DC plan." I understand about working, saving, scrimping, sacrificing, putting up, shutting up, and all the rest of the garbage most bosses subject their employees to, all in the name of "the bottom line." Forget patriotism, community involvement, charity, or any of those noble sentiments. No: for YOU, life is meant to be hard, "brutish, and short." I get all of that.

You are doing just what the 1% want you to do: fight with people who are in your same position and share your same concerns. Can you stop for a minute and consider how much better life could be for everyone, including the 1%, if the rest of us had a functional social safety net and government? The very rich would enjoy the same profits and the rest of us would be happier -- and MORE PRODUCTIVE, which would increase their profits. RIGHT?

Can you stop for a minute and consider how wildly out of kilter the net worths of the 1% are compared to ours? The C.I.A. estimates their worth to be two trillion dollars. How much are the rest of the 310 million of us worth? In some third world countries, an American in the 99% would be considered in the .1% of their wealth levels. So imagine how out of balance the entire world is in terms of wealth.

How is this a recipe for sustainable living over the long term?

[-] 0 points by Jflynn64 (337) 7 years ago

I don't blame the 1% that they are richer than me and I don't blame companies that produce goods that I need. I don't expect the founder of Facebook to take his hard earned money and give it to me so that I have a 100% safety net. He took the chance and built something. I personally don't like it and use it but the public loves it.

I don't need people in DC taking my money and making decisions. Why bail out the banks, why bail out GM - I don't like their cars, why invest in Solyndra and the others. This power just fuels corruption.

So I am not angry at all with the 1%, I am envious that they have the guts to start a business and make it succesfull when I do not. But I wanted to play in the NFL as well and ... Life is hard and it is not fair.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

I agree with most of what you say.

Solyndra wasn't a complete waste, the way the war in Iraq was. These are party-based issues and in order to effect change, one must work within the system. The party which used or mis-used the most funds might be a place to start when deciding how to vote. Just follow the money.

I think the majority of the wealthiest 1% are fine, ethical folks, but a few of them have really ridden off the rails with their greed and destruction. All government regulation can do is curtail the damage done by such abuse of power. Glass-Steagall was only repealed at the behest of republican senators, and Clinton was on his way out anyway. At the same time conservatives like to blame liberals for everything, they are split on key issues like the need to regulate the financial services industry, to keep commercial banking separate from investment banking, to mention a few. Let's elect officials with integrity for a change, and take away the concept of personhood from corporations. Corporations exist in perpetuity and exert much greater financial force than do individuals.

I celebrate excellence and achievement in this world. If by chance my invention made me millions and billions of dollars, as a sane, normal, healthy individual I would naturally give much of it back to the very communities who helped me make my invention in the first place. Wouldn't you? A person who would rather consolidate greater and greater wealth is pathologically greedy. No one person needs to be worth billions and billions of dollars, just as no one person needs to be a dictator in a third world country. We fight wars over the rights of citizens to be self-governing and to enjoy a chance at decent living conditions. We should also fight for our own rights to, for instance, retire in dignity, work 40 (as opposed to 60 or 80) hour workweeks, to have a family and raise it comfortably rather than frenetically, as I see so many people doing, and safe neighborhoods.

I don't think, in this technologically advanced time in which we live, these are too much to expect.

I never supported bailing out the banks, but I am glad we supported GM and Solyndra. Banks and corporations will not invest in new workers because "there is no demand." There is no demand because there are no jobs. People, in case you hadn't noticed, are still deeply in debt and many are just living with family and friends until they can get a job -- which hasn't happened for many millions of people.

Banks should never have been allowed to gamble with our money. How did this come about in the first place? The overwhelming greed of the very wealthy exerted pressure on elected officials to repeal Glass-Steagall. As I've said, most of the wealthiest 1% are fine people who wouldn't have agreed with doing this, but a few of them are just, well, they have a screw loose and have to be contained. That's all. It happens to the best of us. They need extra attention.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn64 (337) 7 years ago

Companies are not in business to serve the public good, they are in business to provide a product for the customers and ultimately produce a return for their shareholders.

Government regulated capitalism provides no transparency and adds costs to the production and stifles innovation. Why do you think the Jews always do well in non regulated businesses? Because they aren't allowed to enter those businesses so they move into new ones and work hard and do well.

The primary causes of the great depression was a monetary problem that has been reviewed many times over the years. I studied this 30 years ago as well as the issue of deposit insurance.

I don't care how much Steve Jobs gets paid as long as I get a good quality product.

You folks want to take away liberties because you are angry.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

COMPANIES MUST BE IN BUSINESS TO SERVE THE PUBLIC GOOD, ALONG WITH MAKING A PROFIT FOR THEMSELVES.

All of us obey the law, in both the LETTER and the SPIRIT.

Corporations must follow the letter and spirit of the law as well. They have a FIDUCIARY DUTY TO BENEFIT THE PUBLIC as well as themselves.

Your "free market" mantra/broken record approach just isn't going to work anymore. Sorry.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn64 (337) 7 years ago

But now you are playing favorites. You only want to allow the nice people to keep their money and you want to give handouts to companies that employ workers. This jet breeds corruption as politicos give favors to those they want. Push the power back to the market to the people and let them decide.

I've been to both Honda's and GM's plants and can tell you Honda knows how to manufacture. GM needs to change.

Regulation won't stop bank runs and Glass Steagal would not change anything. Why not eliminate the deposit insurance and let the banks fail. Once people lose money they won't take that risk again.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Define "nice," as in "the nice people."

Define "handouts" as in "handouts to companies that employ workers." Is "handouts" synonymous with "compensation?"

Is it right for one person at the top of an industrial monopoly to keep all the profits from the sales of products produced through automation, beyond factory maintenance costs? How does that corporation serve the public good?

The market has only as much power as the transparency of its information for capital markets to access. Government-regulated capitalism provides this transparency.

Yes, Glass Steagall would change lots of things, as it did in the early 1930's. How would eliminating the deposit insurance solve anything? At least they could stop paying bank executives 40 million dollars in severance pay, as happened to both Stanley O'Neal and John Thane in rapid succession, and countless others. "Once people lose money they won't take that risk again." Apparently you think the 1930's Great Depression had nothing to do with bankers gambling with customers' money on fraudulent investment schemes. We hadn't learned from that, and the only reason we didn't have a huge financial crash earlier in the 1990's is because Glass-Steagall prevented bankers from getting their hands on customers' savings for "investment" purposes. People need a regulated financial system to stay financially solvent.

Just follow the money...

[-] 1 points by jomojo (562) 7 years ago

Free enterprise? In the USA?.......When was the last time you sold anything? Was that legal? Probably not. Did you check with your accounting department or your attorney? Did you ask your city, county, state, or the IRS for their free literature, to cover your assets, before making that sell, so you would know what the laws and penalties were? Did you know you were a tax collection agent for all those bureaus? Did you vote to be? That's what we vote bureaucrats into office for! And that's one job they have taken care of for the 1%. (for whom free enterprise is freedom from competition). With so many unemployed and under employed, there's a lot of us that would like to engage in commerce, but it's safer to give stuff away, rather than try to support ourselves illegally. The charities have the staff, insurance, attorneys, and have signed all the tax forms and paid for all the permits to sell stuff, and collect taxes, including their employee's. Bypass Bureaucracy? It was built for the 1%, and it helps keep self employment a dream, and makes it a nightmare for newbies.

[-] 1 points by jomojo (562) 7 years ago

Set yourself on fire, or get a license.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 7 years ago

Personal accounts?

My insurance premiums and deductibles have practically doubled over the past 7 years.

My utilities (incl. cellphones, cable etc.) cost upto 30-40% more than they used to in 2005.

My pay has remained basically static. This in spite fo the fact that I am working longer hours and doing more in those hours (because they have downsized some of my colleagues using their excuse of returning to profitability).

My investments (what little I had) have lost value (thanks to the 1%'s gambling).

Oh... and the 1% tried to charge me fees on my debit cards not too long ago... so I switched to a local credit union... (@ 1%: Fuck you very much BTW)

All told I am in a much more precarious financial situation than I was about a decade ago, but sound planning and a distrust of the banking system which was planted in me as a kid has meant that I am still in the black...

I wanted to set up my own business in 2 years, now it looks like another 8-10 before I can raise the kind of capital I will need.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Thank you for detailing just how badly the 1% would have us live. I totally relate to your position, as it describes ours. Just work like a dog all your life, save like crazy, enjoy simple pleasures that don't cost any money, and then pass on the little you have to heirs who might appreciate it. That's about all the 1% allow us, just like in feudal times. The more things change the more they stay the same -- unless we act differently.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn64 (337) 7 years ago

Why do you have cable and cell phone service? I just cancelled my cable service because i couldn't afford it.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 7 years ago

I can afford it, and I need my cellphone for work. Like I said, its not a matter of not being able to afford things, but the fact that my plans have been set back several years.

[-] 0 points by Jflynn64 (337) 7 years ago

So you make the choice to have cabe and a cell phone instead of saving that money to start your own company. That's your choice, how is anybody hurting you.

I chose to cancel my service to be able to pay for my kds' school.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 7 years ago

Sacrificing the basic cable that I have would not save me enough money to make a significant difference.

Also, it is pretty much the only 'luxury' I afford myself... my friends sometimes call me Scrooge... and its not all in jest...

I don't have ANY debt... but also no credit score... cause I abhor loans and credit (my dad paid my college tuition, but that was it... all other expenses I worked for myself)...

I don't buy cars... The car I drive is a clunker gifted to me by my brother in law... did all the maintenance and repair myself... (had a friend loan me his tools... did his yard-work for a month in return)

I don't eat out... like... ever...

I don't smoke or drink...

I don't take vacations.

I don't have any other subscriptions or memberships.

I tutor on weekends.

I reuse everything from paper clips to packaging materials to old broken appliances.

Heck... I even grow some of my own vegetables.

Also, I have already begun to set aside money for educating my kids... Even though I do not actually have any kids now... I treat it like an EMI to myself... I like to cover my bases...

As I said before... I can afford this... but its not as easy as it used to be...

I think I will keep my cable...

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

You're just like us! Thanks for being on our team, so to speak. It's comforting to encounter another who lives just like we do.

We have cell phones and subscribe to ONE magazine. We also have this wonderful computer and a bit of time to spend on it sometimes. We don't have cable, no kids, cheap, camping vacations only, reuse, recycle, get "pity gifts" from friends exasperated at how cheaply we live -- it's almost a point of pride -- but not, when you consider how brutally the 1% regard us -- as something less than human, less deserving of dignity, respect, or consideration. This is greed gotten way out of hand. It is 1% of us, not very many of us, a few of whom probably fall into the sociopath category. So we're not talking about the entire 1% as a whole. It's probably just .001% who really ruin it for the rest of us. Most people see the validity of our positions.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 7 years ago

I like gardening... and growing my own vegetables was a productive application of that hobby... A free tip to anyone who might want to do the same... instead of chucking food waste, make it into compost... its quite simple... toss it in a box with some holes and dirt already in it...

More than being just economical, its healthy to live that way... most supermarket veggies are ripened in warehouses, not the farms, i.e. they don't contain as much good stuff as they should...

Fast food or just processed food in general is full of stuff which isnt good for you... Basically I try not to eat anything which has ingredients whose names I cant pronounce without a double take...

I find I have enjoyed better health since I made these choices... doing stuff in the yard also keeps you fit... without a gym membership...

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

We try to do everything you said, but we both work at time-consuming jobs. We garden and compost as much as possible, prepare our own food from scratch, hike, read a lot, and conserve in general. We try to enjoy life. Yay!

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 7 years ago

Yeah I grow only the low maintenance veggies and herbs...

As for making food from scratch, it can be time consuming, but I try to use recipes which require less work... particular favorites are baked dishes and crockpot recipes... most of them you can just toss stuff in and then let it cook while you're off doing something else, a particular favorite of mine is a bean stew which I let cook in the crockpot almost all day... set it up in the morning and arrive from work to find a hot meal ready for me... best with buttered rice or flatbreads...

The big advantage I have is an understanding boss who realizes it does not always make sense to drive 35 miles to work EVERYDAY... and that being stuck in rush hour will only make me cranky and less productive in the time that I actually am at office...

He lets me come in a bit late on the condition that I also work late (suits me... cause it lets me beat rush hour then too...)... Also he lets me work from home maybe 2-3 days a month... it adds up..

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

These are hopeful signs in a troubling world. The best revenge is living well -- not opulently, just well. A sense of humor is key. Way to go.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

why did the 1% - (actually big banks are not the 1% but anyway) why did they want to charge you a fee? could it be they are trying to make up for the burdensome regs of Dodd/Frank? How about night classes to increase your marketability in the workplace? new skills?

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Regulated capitalism is the ideal. That way, market information stays transparent -- the qualifying feature of functional capitalism according to Adam Smith.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Banks are supposed to provide PUBLIC SERVICE, not make a profit. They must stay solvent, of course, but not at the public's expense. Where have you been? Did we not just "privatize the profits and socialize the losses?" Did you read the news of a few years ago? Review the record of exactly who bailed out whom.

Please recalibrate your paradigms of the purposes of financial and social institutions. The whole of our existence isn't about "making a buck" or "the bottom line," contrary to what a very, very few exceptionally greedy individuals within the top wealthiest 1% would have you believe. Don't be taken in by their deception.

I hope you are in favor of the reinstitution of the Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial from investment banking.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

where did you ever get the idea banks are there to provide a public service lol! If you want tp be a ward of the state move to Europe. I suppport Glass Steagal, I am against government Social engineering forcing banks to lower lending standards so more people can own their own homes, then guaranteeing those loans via Freddie & Fannie. They guaranteed the loans - so when the loans defaulted - of course they needed to bail out the banks.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Banks, throughout history, have provided a haven for people to keep their money and valuables safe, "lol!" Where have you been all these years?

As such, they provide public service, and can't exist without that as their guiding mission. Financial institutions don't exist in some kind of weird social vacuum. These institutions have a long history.

Who here has asked to be a "ward of the state?"

"They guaranteed the loans - so when the loans defaulted - of course they needed to bail out the banks."

Does this imply a reassignment of blame away from those issuing credit default swaps, bad loans to poor credit risks, and rampant speculation across the board in the housing sector?

Please keep your facts straight. The entire system will probably change, not just Freddie & Fannie. Did you realize there were other factors to blame for the housing debacle or are you just pretending to have ignored what has been in all of the newspapers, magazines, radio, television, and other media? I am just curious.

I support Glass Steagal, too, as well as banks which provide a PUBLIC SERVICE and don't rip everyone off. Don't you support institutions which provide valuable services to the public? Or perhaps YOU PREFER CRIMINALS RUNNING OUR BANKS. Which is it?

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I work at a bank - you have no idea what you are talking about

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 7 years ago

Thanks for the suggestions, I actually am taking classes to pick up some CAD software skills. I actually like my job and happen to be good at it, just that I am not making as much money as I would like.

As for the burdensome regulations you're talking about... anything which restrains their power to gamble with no holds barred and then just get bailouts to save their sorry behinds is something which is necessary...

I am not sure why the fees were asked for, but I don't care... it was another dent in my finances and one which I could easily avoid... and so I did... All hail the free market (minus bailouts and too big to fail dinosaurs)!

It was not too long ago when there were >30 major retail banks in this country... now there are about 5... where is the competition?

Why are retail banks allowed to gamble with the customers money who are then the last to receive compensation?

Why do the execs face no prosecution? Or... even if we forget about prosecuting them... how can we simply allow things to carry on the way they did before?

Its like... oops... the blindfold slipped off for a bit when we drove into that ditch... now put it back on again before we go off the cliff...

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

We agree. Thank you for this post. Can we re-institute Glass-Steagall? This would be a step in the right direction.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

We agree - Repealing Glass Steagall was a mistake. I thought so at the time. you need to let businesses fail when they get in trouble that will teach them to be more careful. On the other hand- the govt guaranteed these bad mortgages thru freddie & fannie and encouraged banks (more like forced them) to lower lending standards so more people could "afford" to buy a house. So actually - TARP was Freddie & Fannie making good on their promise.

[-] 1 points by toukarin (488) 7 years ago

Heres a snippet from an article I read not too long ago... It was from the Huffington Post...

According to Guttentag, consolidation also leaves a handful of banks controlling the majority of certain types of products. Four "mega banks" -- Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and Citigroup -- now hold three-fifths of the home mortgage market, which limits consumers' choice of products and their ability to shop around for competitive pricing. "It's a textbook issue of a concentration of power," Guttentag says. "A limited number of firms control the market, and they will engage in implicit collusion."

Original article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/28/banking-sector_n_855003.html

Not sure if I subscribe to absolutely everything that was said, but that one snippet was something I was glad to see in there... The concentration of power with very few banks is a fact that I have known about and lamented for a very long time...

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I am on board with Trust Busting to some degree. No-one should be to big to fail. the more choice the better, the less force used on us by the government the better also.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Please stop juxtaposing the words "force" with "government." The phrase "the less force used on us by the government" is just so completely wrong-headed.

Can you please stop with the hysteria?

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

what do you call it when the govt skims 15% of your earnings for soc sec? what do you call it when you have no choice where your school tax goes and where you can send you kid to school ? what do you call it when gambling is ilegal except when govt does it. The govt is no different than organized crime in many respects. wake up and read your history.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

First, do you think our elders deserve to be treated with dignity and respect? We just can't quite keep up with the dynamism of the workplace over certain ages -- it varies from person to person -- and must retire at some point in our lives, if we're lucky enough to make it that far.

Second, public schools are run according to legislative fiat. Whoever participates in the legislative process, along with local school boards, determine how public schools are run. Are you aware of this?

As parents, we all have a great deal of choice in how we raise our kids. We can teach them valuable negotiating skills which will serve them in "the school of hard knocks" as well as in the university. You should attend a school board meeting, parent night, or other public school event to learn more about how public schools are run.

If the government is no different than organized crime, as you state, how is society to be organized? You sound like an anarchist.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

1) there are ways to save for retirement without the government ripping you off 2) Public schools are fine - as long as you give me a voucher and I am free to choose public or private.

3) Choice - as long as you give people choice you are still free.

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Vouchers drain tax dollars away from the most needy schools and communities. Oh well. Unless you have volunteered for more than a few months in those schools you just can't know the kinds of problems these students deal with. Most of the public will never get this. I understand the situation but continue to remain thoroughly unconvinced of the need for vouchers in public schools. If you can't abide by public school system limitations, you are free to spend your extra money educating your child in a private school of your choice. If you can't abide public pensions, you should find a way to convince public servants it is worth their while to abandon their public service career aspirations and take a private sector job that is not public-service oriented. I will not be responding to any more of your posts.

Happy New Year!

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

So it's all about redistribution by force and eliminate choice or freedom. Needy neighborhoods get the same vouchers. In Fact in NYC they are begging for vouchers & charter schools. The Teachers unions have decimated education & it is about the teachers & the union power. The kids come last.

[-] 1 points by OurTimes2011 (377) from Arlington, VA 7 years ago

ASHINGTON -- Squeezed by rising living costs, a record number of Americans – nearly 1 in 2 – have fallen into poverty or are scraping by on earnings that classify them as low income.

The latest census data depict a middle class that's shrinking as unemployment stays high and the government's safety net frays. The new numbers follow years of stagnating wages for the middle class that have hurt millions of workers and families.

"Safety net programs such as food stamps and tax credits kept poverty from rising even higher in 2010, but for many low-income families with work-related and medical expenses, they are considered too `rich' to qualify," said Sheldon Danziger, a University of Michigan public policy professor who specializes in poverty.

"The reality is that prospects for the poor and the near poor are dismal," he said. "If Congress and the states make further cuts, we can expect the number of poor and low-income families to rise for the next several years."

[-] 1 points by OurTimes2011 (377) from Arlington, VA 7 years ago

48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be "low income" or are living in poverty.

57 percent of all children in the United States are living in homes that are either considered to be "low income" or impoverished.

77 percent of all U.S. small businesses do not plan to hire any more workers.

There are fewer payroll jobs in the United States today than there were back in 2000 even though we have added 30 million extra people to the population since then.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

what is your solution?

[-] 1 points by OurTimes2011 (377) from Arlington, VA 7 years ago

Start with voting every current politician out of office, at all levels of govt.

If even one remains, this will not work, however. It must me a COMPLETE change.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I agree! now why doesn't OWS agree? they are aiming at the wrong target.

[-] 1 points by OurTimes2011 (377) from Arlington, VA 7 years ago

You misunderstand OWS, or maybe you are just a troll (I don't think so. I hope not, at least.) Some in OWS do agree. Some think the system is so broken that it's best to start over, like a house whose condition is so bad it would be better if you just knocked it down and started over.

Go down to OWS and start. YOU have to do it, or it won't get done.

YOU.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

seems like too much communist sentiment for me. but thanks for the invite. I dont think the "system" needs to be torn down and rebuilt. I think we need to shrink government & get rid of crony capitalism.

[-] 1 points by OurTimes2011 (377) from Arlington, VA 7 years ago

Some at OWS think the system need to be torn down. I may or may not.

Just as I thought. A troll. Sigh.

[-] 2 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Yup, a troll, all right.

Thank you for your part in this debate. Thank you for being supportive of OWS.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

of course the tower of babble didn't answer the question Again! I didn't ask about your dreams of a more just world I asked specifically how the 1% is preventing you from your pursuit to achieve your personal success/dream etc.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

ah - so you want to occupy the doctors office now! What dont you want to occupy?

Sorry to hear about your parents by the way.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 7 years ago

That guy doesn't have conversations. He posts one sentence and then he'll copy and paste a speech. He pretends that it's discussion but obviously it isn't. He won't read and respond to anything that you say, he'll just say that he is responding to you but then he'll copy and paste another speech. Just warning you...

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

thanks for the heads up lol!

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 7 years ago

He responded to me instead of to you -- with a copy and paste that he wrote something on top of. That's his thing. He'll say that he's having a conversation while ignoring everything that you say, copying and pasting propaganda after every post.

It's funny because he really seems to think that it qualifies as "debate".

[-] 1 points by papalovesme (3) from Portland, OR 7 years ago

This is easy. We have let people become to powerful in this country. Powerful enough to buy senators and congressman, even our presidents. This is an undeniable fact. Then the politicians are controlled by the wealthy. Clear enough?

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

when you say "we" who are you referring to? why do you let the politicians be controlled by the wealthy? Are not they the ones who should be targeted? Vote them out! Tea Party picked up 80 seats in 2010 and changed the course of history. we will pick up the Senate next year & maybe even the WH. What are you going to pick up?

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

it's very clear & I agree with you. I just dont agree that the aim should be at the person making the bribe. the aim should be at the one taking it.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

The truth will out. Tea Partier?

[-] 1 points by infonomics (393) 7 years ago

Explain the overall nominal growth in America since 2008 and the same expected for 2012. Here's Goldman Sachs prediction: We expect growth to slow in the US, although we still do not expect a recession. Why the slow growth three years after the collapse? Is it coincidence that growth started to slow at the same time the first boomer began to retire or to recognize the need for retrenchment. Correlate the age of the boomers with 2008; striking isn't it. Who knew this if not the whiz kids? But the whiz kids were not going to have such so they fabricated the housing demand with attractive low rates hedged with ARM's. Even George Bush himself cited the housing crisis as a manifestation of false optimism. Imagine the audacity of trying to convince intelligent people that America was brought down by people who only understand 8th grade level speeches. NY and Washington would have us believe that, on the one hand, they are the ones would should lead us because of their stellar acumen yet when we the economy goes awry, it is others who are at fault. You ask, why didn't they pay their mortgage's? Simple, they didn't have adequate money. Why? They didn't have jobs or adequate jobs. Why? A variety of reasons: outsourcing, efficiency due to technology, corporate downsizing due to future nominal growth, etc. But, again, who knew of these factors if not the whiz kids in position of power? Remember, they know everything; that's why they call themselves leaders.

When General Robert E. Lee lost the battle at Gettysburg, he rightly blamed himself; he did not blame his soldiers. Ditto for NY and Washington.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

yet none of this would have happened had people continued to pay their mortgage obligations which they willingly accepted when they took out the loan.

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 7 years ago

I like repeating myself simply because I like the sound of my own voice . . .

Every time shit like this happens, it affects me personally:

the movie

which has a central theme of immigration and political corruption, including political assassination

hit store shelves in the Burlington, Vermont area about four days prior to the shooting at Gabrielle Giffords town hall meeting in Tuscon, Arizona, on January 8, 2011; where nineteen people were shot; six of whom died.

From Wiki#Home_media)

The R-rated theatrical version of Machete was released on DVD and Blu-ray on January 4, 2011.

On the week ending January 9, 2011, Machete topped the DVD Sales chart in America debuting at Number 1. The DVD sold 691,317 copies in its first week of release. 55#cite_note-54)

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Nobody is going to hand out personal information. You are going to have to accept that. This is the internet. We don't do it in other forums or in chat rooms.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

it doesn't need to be THAT specific. good ducking the question.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

There isn't anything to duck. Who the fuck are you and why are you so desperate to ask those kinds of question in a place where you are aware that people are not going to hand out personal information? Nobody knows you. As far as anyone can tell you are another paid troll. What will you do with that personal information?

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I dont know who you are? this totally anonymous. Giving out a general story how the 1% is holding you back isn't going to reveal anything about you. stop the paranoia ! is it the weed you are smoking? you cant tell me how the 1% is holding you back - so why are you in this movement?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

I don't owe you an explanation. I don't use drugs. Grow the fuck up.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so basically you cant explain why you are occupying. Thanks - thats what I thought. When the curse words & name calling start - I know I've made my point.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

You don't have a point. I'm an adult. I'm making the assumption that you are as well. If not, grow the fuck up. You aren't here to "learn" anything. You are a paid troll, probably just another name for one that we already know. Again, since you are willfully ignorant, nobody is going to give you their personal information. You don't win shit but you look like it.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

wow!!! very good.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

You guys are transparent as hell.

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 7 years ago

There is only a specific amount of wealth, capital, money, or whatever you want to call it. When is gets concentrated to a very few there is less for others to use. I have less each time the rich get richer.

[-] 1 points by Budcm (208) 7 years ago

Wealth is not zero based. All the wealth of the world comes from one of 2 sources--the land or the sea. The wise use of these natural resources has always grown the economy as more are discovered. Someday we might run out of certain fuels, minerals..etc. I don't know. It seems that man has always been able to replace their need with some other resource or substance..

I wish I knew all the answers. I do know this:m If you take away the 1% at the top and give it to the bottom 1%...then what? There will always be another 1% at the top and at the bottom. That's simple math. I am not at the top but, what with taking 1% off the top continuously, you will, and so will I, be that 1% eventually. Then it will be your Ox that is gored. What then?

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 7 years ago

The true wealth and health of our country will always be those in the middle range. If anything gets too concentrated toward one side then the end result is rebellion and social unrest.

The wealthy can still get wealthy but if there are none who can buy what they are making their wealth on what do we do then?

Just look at a bell curve and you can easily see who should control the bulk of the wealth. There will always be some who are poor and always some who are rich but everyone will do better if the middle of the curve has the means to make it work. They would be able to pay enough taxes to get us out of this current dilemma, the poor would be able to have a bit more hope and the rich would just be taking less but still be considered wealthy. The question they need to begin to pose to themselves is just how much is enough?

[-] 1 points by Misfit138 (172) 7 years ago

You have no idea how it works. Since we left the gold standard, we abandoned the limits you believe exist. If all of the "1%" were to hold all of the wealth in the world today, more could be created through trade and commerce. If your idea that "there is only a specific amount of wealth" were true, then the value of the dollar today would be the same as it was in 1900. Fiat currencies increase the velocity of money allowing more wealth to be created.

[-] 1 points by randart (498) 7 years ago

I am afraid that you have no idea how it works. You have been told a line of BS to make you think a specific way but it isn't true. Look at the statistics and you can see the co-relationship between the accumulation of the wealth at the top and the decline of the wealth at the lower end of the spectrum. The rich get richer by taking what the middle and lower classes once had.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

what you just said is absolutely incorrect. what do you call it when they come out with GDP growth figures? When they say the economy expanded or contracted by this much etc? That is economic growth & wealth being created for EVERYBODY. WHat devalues your dollar is when the Federal Reserve Prints money out of thin air to pay the governments bills. That puts more moeny into circulation & makes those dollars wortth less.

[-] 1 points by Stormcrow (11) 7 years ago

If you want something you have to work for it - how hard is that to understand?

[-] 1 points by Stormcrow (11) 7 years ago

It hasn't because I have acheived everything I wanted to in life. You know, working for what you want, and not being obligated to anyone. That's called being "independent".

Not so today - todays society thinks they are owed something - they don't know how to survive.

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so sell something else lol! how is this an example of the 1% keeping you down ?!

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so - go work for the competition. Good companies are always looking for good talent. again - you are not really providing many specifics. what were you trying to sell? what is your back-round education experience etc? where are you ? It seems you don't want to be pinned down & held accountable.

[-] 1 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 7 years ago

You don't see a massive socioeconomic trend as a one-on-one interaction. It's like asking which coal burning plant is to blame for the scarcity of fish in modern-day Pennsylvania.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

hahaha ! as predicted - cant engage the question

[-] 2 points by mserfas (652) from Ashland, PA 7 years ago

I did engage the question. People have lots of dreams, and one of them, very small one, but which occasionally puts a meal on the table, is catching more fish. And the coal plants, major utilities ... well, there's a lot of "1%" ownership. And if the 1% had less power, and the people more, there would be - would have been, more scrubbers on those plants (even the 'grandfathered' ones), less acid rain, more fish.

Looking at the effects of the 1% is like that. It's not one thing, it's a thousand little things, each ruined by a thousand different people. But the net effect is a society where people are just a little poorer, just a little less free, just a little less able to stand up for themselves ... and it all adds up, and it hurts everybody.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I said specifically a personal account not "people" as you refer to. so - you did not engage the question thank you. how speciffically has the 1% kept you from achieving your goals in life?

[-] 0 points by Lavant (96) 7 years ago

I am one of the “people” who wish I could go fishing and actually feed my family, instead of being excited by catching a bullhead once a month and when I do catch a fish I need to worry about the contaminants its consumed.

I think it was well said “Looking at the effects of the 1% is like that. It's not one thing, it's a thousand little things, each ruined by a thousand different people. But the net effect is a society where people are just a little poorer, just a little less free, just a little less able to stand up for themselves ... and it all adds up, and it hurts everybody.”

You want another personal account? How about J.P. Morgan’s suppression of Tesla’s research in wireless energy ended my dreams long before I could even have them.

The crap they have dun has prevented us from reaching a point where we are able to know what dreams are possible.

[-] 1 points by economicallydiscardedcitizen (761) 7 years ago

I've always thought that Tesla's discoveries were shunted to the so called 'black ops' of the US and Britain and that Marconi and Edison were put to the forefront with deliberation.

The destruction of Tesla's giant coil in Colorado was one way of 'erasing' free energy usage at the earliest point in US industrial history possible while the pursuit of oil around the world for the purposes of LAND dominance by the powers that be leaves much to conjecture.

We exist in an environment of free energy, at the moment we are bombarded by cosmic rays and all manner of radiation from space, the earth and yes, the 1% (meaning all the nuke plants in the world and emissions from disasters such as TEPCO's General Electric created plant at Fukushima, Japan) Why won't we harness it as Tesla did way back when?

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

again - you mention "society" so from what I take it - you want to go fishing to provide for your family. Wireless energy seems everywhere? where do you fish? for what species do you fish to expect to support your family? how do you fish? expand on your answer about JPM. again - no specifics !!!

[-] 0 points by Lavant (96) 7 years ago

i fish in rivers, lakes, and the Puget Sound. i fish for salmon, trout, and anything else that bites the hook. I use a pole like most white men.

what relivence is there in any of this? The point is still the same even if I use a net in the ocean for tuna, most of the fish are gone and what is left is greatly contaminated.

as for Tesla, if we had free wireless energy back when Tesla was reaserching it we would be so much further advanced today my dreams would be far different then they are right now.

"Wireless energy seems everywhere?" what are you talking about?

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Why haven't you adapted to the changing environment? That is like saying a lumber jack should be mad at the 1% because all the trees are gone. Meanwhile every day he went to work he could see he was cutting down all the trees? Nothing is in stone forever. My job is moving overseas & I've seen it coming for years. What do I do? Go to school @ night & get skills for a different kind of job!

Telsa - so thats it - you want something for free!

[-] 2 points by Lavant (96) 7 years ago

I have answered your question and all you can say is give up your dream? Yes it is the pollution and waste in the name of the 1%'s profits that have depleted the fish AND the forests, yes it was the 1%!

And BTW, it was Tesla who called it free wireless energy, I never said I wanted something free. The technology could still be sold if you felt it necessary. The point is the 1% promote the retardation of the population and technology in the name of profit and control. You are a prime example. You are obviously a paid troll and I hope you are enjoying your life of servitude.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

My dream is to play for the NY Yankees someday ! Come on - get real !!!!

[-] 1 points by Lavant (96) 7 years ago

It was your question, no need to get excited.

So how did the 1% stop you from playing for the NY Yankees? Or was that your fault like you are TRYING to get us to think is our problems?

If that is your whole point how is the depleted and contaminated fish my fault?

“Come on - get real !!!!“

Are you saying supporting my family by fishing is as difficult and unlikely as getting on a pro sports team? come on, get real.

What makes you think I am wasting time trying to feed my family with fishing? I just said it was my dream that I was unable to achieve as a direct result of the damage done in the name of the 1%'s profits!

You asked, I answered. You should quit while you have some dignity left..... that is if you had any to start with.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

the 1% didnt stop me from playing for the Yankees. I wasn't good enough.

Depleted fish isn't your fault. people are making a living in the fishing industry. If you cant support your family fishing - you need to do something else.

[-] 1 points by Lavant (96) 7 years ago

Again I am doing something else.

So your answer is just give up your dreams?Ok, That is all you had to say.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

not give up - you have to adapt to reality. For instance my wife & I love to fish we fish on the weekends, run a fishing club etc. but we have regular jobs to pay the bills. Life is not perfect. never has been - never will be.

[-] 1 points by Lavant (96) 7 years ago

As far as I am concerned, the people taking back the power and cleaning up the mess of the 1% is adapting. it will not be perfect, but it will be MUCH better.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 7 years ago

Just joined The Forum, eh ? Well, F*ck Off Troll & go "focus" your fuzzy little head around some of this :

a) http://rt.com/programs/keiser-report/ ;

b) http://www.nomiprins.com/articles/ ;

c) http://www.opensecrets.org/ ;

d) http://michael-hudson.com/ &

e) http://ni4d.us/ ...

Wanker !!!

[-] 1 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 7 years ago

Every time shit like this happens, it affects me personally:

the movie

which has a central theme of immigration and political corruption, including political assassination

hit store shelves in the Burlington, Vermont area about four days prior to the shooting at Gabrielle Giffords town hall meeting in Tuscon, Arizona, on January 8, 2011; where nineteen people were shot; six of whom died.

From Wiki#Home_media)

The R-rated theatrical version of Machete was released on DVD and Blu-ray on January 4, 2011.

On the week ending January 9, 2011, Machete topped the DVD Sales chart in America debuting at Number 1. The DVD sold 691,317 copies in its first week of release. 55#cite_note-54)

[-] 0 points by Kirby (104) 7 years ago

They refuse to give me a bag of money, that I am entitled to. Every rich person should send a bag of money to every citizen of the 99%. when they do this we will settle down.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by economicallydiscardedcitizen (761) 7 years ago

Ha! As a former loan officer and real estate agent working at one of the San Francisco Bay Area's largest and most established privately owned company literally close it's doors in response to the housing equity crisis-hey, the magnitude of transactions that we could not lend on due to appraisals below lender guidelines for LTV (loan to value) felt like a tsunami going out. From 2003 to 2008 I worked during the cycle of the run up in real estate values through to the end months of my company as a member of the top producers round table.

What could I tell my trainees as transactions increasingly were not 'doable' and it was clearer to us that we were being shorted by Wall Street? If they were college age I told them to stay in school for as long as the folks would allow, others who were 'older' and who are now very likely to be 99ers/99%ers I told them to start getting their resumes out and seriously look for work outside of our field since that's what I began doing several months before the worst part of the downturn.

In the end it became painfully plain to me that housing on a national scale along with the industries integral to it were only 'toys' for the biggest derivatives traders/ bankers who are free to gamble with and steal from the American property owner 'The Dream of Property Ownership!'

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

If people didnt default on their loan payment - there would be no crisis period.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

"On a personal level, I was able to achieve my dreams". you could have stopped right there as this satisfies the question lol! the rest is simply a tower of babble.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

like I said - you answered the question. Happy new year !

[-] 0 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 7 years ago

It isn't that they stop me, it's that they have more stuff than I'll ever have and I either want them to provide me with stuff for free or I want the government to take all their stuff so they won't have any more stuff than me. OWS in a nut shell.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so you are jealous? class envy?

[-] 0 points by foreeverLeft (-264) 7 years ago

Of course, I'll never amount to anything so naturally, I'm all for using government to improve my lot in life by forcing my betters to pay for my shit. Who's smarter then?? :)

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

you a brilliant. Merry Christmas.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

obviously this post hit a nerve. the goal is not to hurt anyone, it is the get you to think. good job folks!

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by betuadollar (-313) 7 years ago

One word: outsourcing; there can be no equal opportunity without opportunity.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

and why are jobs being outsourced?

[-] 0 points by necropaulis (491) 7 years ago

The "1%"(stupid term/number, btw) don't affect us that much. The OWS people are just mad, because as we were growing up, we got trophies just for showing up to school, prizes for at least trying, etc. This conditioned us to believe we all deserve something for nothing, so when we grew up, everyone got all pissy because life wasn't what we thought it would be.

Now these guys want someone to be mad at. They can't blame mom and dad. They can't blame the schools, so they make up an enemy they can't define.

At the end of the day the only people who stand in these people's way in looking at them in the mirror.

[-] 0 points by Farleymowat (415) 7 years ago

They are thiefs. Next question.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 7 years ago

I believe that the trolls on here are posting in order to distract, alienate, and ultimately waste the time of everyone else on this forum. Unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done about the trolls short of heavy moderation, which this board clearly does not have.

Trolls make these posts on purpose because they feed off of response. The trolls' language is carefully chosen so that the most people will be compelled to respond. They are trying to create tension, eventually to the point where the people who really care about this movement either leave the boards or leave the movement entirely.

There is a possibility of some sort of concerted effort to dismantle the movement. We would be kidding ourselves to think that there are no entities that would want OWS to fade away. However, I don't think that there is any ulterior motive to these trolls. Most trolls that I run into thrive on the argument. They love confrontation, no matter what it is about or how inane their views are. Its entertainment, and by responding to trolls you are only increasing that person's pleasure.

When helping out with a protest movement against Scientology abuses, the same types of trolls appeared there. I saw a lot of people turned away from that movement thanks to some persistent trolling. I have seen the same types of trolling play out on forum-after-forum, and I don't want to see the same thing turn more people away from this movement.

Instead of responding to trolls, do something productive to help the movement:

Post links to pages that you find important on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Let your friends and family know that you support Occupy. I know whenever I post something about an instance of police abuse against a peaceful protestor, that it gets re-shared immediately.

Take that long 3-page-long post that are about to post here, and send it to your local newspaper as a letter to the editor or opinion piece instead. You have a higher chance of your point being made in front of many more sets of eyes than on this forum, and this will show people who aren't following the movement 24/7 that a) we're still here and b) we have valid viewpoints.

Heck, take the highlights of what you want to say, and make a flyer out of it! There are plenty of programs on all of the major OS's that will allow you to create nice-looking flyers. Adobe Photoshop is the industry standard, but GIMP is a great free alternative that will provide you with the tools that you need.

Gimp - http://www.gimp.org/

Tutorials - http://www.tech-faq.com/make-a-flyer.html http://vimeo.com/23992721

Distribute flyers about the movement or your local Occupy in your town. Look around at the local businesses. Some will have community boards where you can put up your flyers. If you are flyering outside on buildings or other structures, you will need some thick tape. I recommend some clear packing tape, 2-3 inches wide. Tape all the way down on each side so that your flyer doesn't get easily torn down by the wind or by someone else. Look at the way that other flyers are posted in your town and try to make yours stand out in a similar fashion.

Build an Occupy blog or "fan site." Everyone has their own views on the movement, and getting yours out there on a dedicated site brings more attention to the overall movement. Wordpress and other blogging sites make it incredibly easy to build your own blogs.

Wordpress - http://wordpress.com/

Participate in a working group. Chances are that your local Occupy group needs more help. There are things for everyone to do both on and offline. Go find your local group and see where more hands are needed.

Participate in the 99percentdeclaration or other political groups. For those of you that are complaining about the movement's activity on the political front, did you know that there are numerous petitions, websites, and projects in the works right now to push for political change according to our common demands? Personally, I am going to help out with the 99percentdeclaration, but there are other movements as well like Free Elect and quite a few calls for Constitutional Amendments, Article V conventions, etc. Sign some of the petitions that you agree with, or donate to one of these causes and help make the National General Assembly or other political actions a reality.

99percentdeclaration - https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ Americans Elect - http://www.americanselect.org/

Post in a forum that isn't troll-infested. It seems that the people on The Multitude are having productive discourse, compared to the troll-fest that we have here: <http://www.themultitude.org/forum/index.php>
[-] 0 points by ineptcongress (648) 7 years ago

this is a provocative question, sure to elicit many responses, and intended to shift the argument from how can we make government work for the common good? TO how are they holding you down? i am sure everyone on here is smart enough to see the direct link between the government's abject failure to act for the common good by serving special interests and 15 million jobless people, pervasive foreclosures and a multitude of other societal problems.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

I agree - now you are beginning to focus on the right target which is govt. even still - what is it you want them to do for YOU to help YOU achieve your PERSONAL goals.

[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 7 years ago

i want them to stay away from me and my personal goals, i don't need help--the government screws everything up... hence my moniker. however, were they to start doing the right thing, i.e.,: stop favoring special interests and the 1% who can afford the proverbial seat at the table, then people would simply be better off by a magnitude of 10. the shady dealings with other crooks (the 1%) is what needs to be stopped. by way of example, brian roberts, multi-billionaire of comcast fame: regulate cable as a utility because it is (it shares every aspect of what is defined as a utility). comcast lobbied hard to avoid rate increase reviews by the PUC. did it work for them? yes. for you???? how's that $130 cable bill?

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

you sort of answered the question. You sound like a free market thinker - congratulations!

[-] 0 points by stuartchase (861) 7 years ago

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nucleus-is-a-nazi/

Watch out for this individual. It's mentally ill.

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 7 years ago

OCD

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 7 years ago

Nobody cares what you say. I have exposed you for what you really are, which is ironic, seeing as you have exposed yourself to so many who have rejected your forced advances.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 7 years ago

LOL The votes don't seem to support your baseless conjecture. Nor do those who (sadly) make fun of your Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

Jehovah 2 points 30 minutes ago said it best:

You are literally too stupid to insult.

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 7 years ago

A conjecture is baseless. You are redundant because you are trying to use words you do not comprehend. Nice try. Although you might want to go back home where you belong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_sYn8DnlH4

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 7 years ago

You don't need health insurance for mental health treatment. There are free clinics run by cities and counties across the nation. OCD is treatable.

You can read about it here: Obsessive-compulsive disorder

Good luck.

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 7 years ago

Are you lost? I know your ilk get lost easily. You can always try mapquest. Maybe your lover, Puff, can help you find your way. Two mentally retarded heads are better than one.

[-] 0 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 7 years ago

Still nothing ?

[-] 0 points by BlueRose (1437) 7 years ago

OMG I have a bunch of posts about it all.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Pathetic!!!!

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

ok - as I suspected - nothing lol!

[-] 2 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 7 years ago

when the banking system nearly collapsed in 2008 it meant (productive) business could not get loans or refinance. this held back growth of my business and meant I couldnt employ as many people

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

and this is the fault of the 1% (above 347K) how?

[-] 1 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 7 years ago

because of the massive banking fraud, off balance sheet accounting fraud, tax avoidance, profits from derivatives, huge bonuses paid by and to bankers and systemic corruption which saw more money concentrated in a small percentage of people.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

so the 1% made people default on their mortgages? Is that what you are trying to say? So some random guy making 350K did all that?

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01...Yes that is correct, read the FBI report on mortgage fraud and the Congressional report on the cause of the housing crisis. Just maybe you'll have an informed opinion instead of your out of whack opinion.

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

hahaha - the FBI ! get me the link hahaha! The housing market crashed because people stopped paying their mortgages. It's no more complicated than that. Had people not defaulted - no crash. or perhaps you could explain to me how the crash would have occurred with everyone paying their debt obligations.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01......FBI report on Mortgage Fraud...Laugh at this...lol...

Key Findings

Mortgage fraud continued at elevated levels in 2010, consistent with levels seen in 2009. Mortgage fraud schemes are particularly resilient, and they readily adapt to economic changes and modifications in lending practices. Mortgage fraud perpetrators include licensed/registered and non-licensed/registered mortgage brokers, lenders, appraisers, underwriters, accountants, real estate agents, settlement attorneys, land developers, investors, builders, bank account representatives, and trust account representatives. Total dollar losses directly attributed to mortgage fraud are unknown. A continued decrease in loan originations from 2009 to 2010 (and expected through 2012), high levels of unemployment and housing inventory, lower housing prices, and an increase in defaults and foreclosures dominated the housing market in 2010. RealtyTrac reported 2.9 million foreclosures in 2010, representing a 2 percent increase in foreclosures since 2009 and a 23 percent increase since 2008. Analysis of available law enforcement and industry data indicates the top states for known or suspected mortgage fraud activity during 2010 were California, Florida, New York, Illinois, Nevada, Arizona, Michigan, Texas, Georgia, Maryland, and New Jersey; reflecting the same demographic market affected by mortgage fraud in 2009. Prevalent mortgage fraud schemes reported by law enforcement and industry in FY 2010 included loan origination, foreclosure rescue, real estate investment, equity skimming, short sale, illegal property flipping, title/escrow/settlement, commercial loan, and builder bailout schemes. Home equity line of credit (HELOC), reverse mortgage fraud, and fraud involving loan modifications are still a concern for law enforcement and industry. With elevated levels of mortgage fraud, the FBI has continued to dedicate significant resources to the threat. In June 2010, the Department of Justice (DOJ), to include the FBI, announced a mortgage fraud takedown referred to as Operation Stolen Dreams. The takedown targeted mortgage fraudsters throughout the country and was the largest collective enforcement effort ever brought to bear in combating mortgage fraud. The current and continuing depressed housing market will likely remain an attractive environment for mortgage fraud perpetrators who will continue to seek new methods to circumvent loopholes and gaps in the mortgage lending market. These methods will likely remain effective in the near term, as the housing market is anticipated to remain stagnant through 2011.

Mortgage fraud enables perpetrators to earn high profits through illicit activity that poses a relative low risk for discovery. Mortgage fraud perpetrators include licensed/registered and non-licensed/registered mortgage brokers, lenders, appraisers, underwriters, accountants, real estate agents, settlement attorneys, land developers, investors, builders, bank account representatives, and trust account representatives. There have been numerous instances in which various organized criminal groups were involved in mortgage fraud activity. Asian, Balkan, Armenian, La Cosa Nostra,2 Russian, and Eurasian3 organized crime groups have been linked to various mortgage fraud schemes, such as short sale fraud and loan origination schemes.

Mortgage fraud perpetrators using their experience in the banking and mortgage-related industries—including construction, finance, appraisal, brokerage, sales, law, and business—exploit vulnerabilities in the mortgage and banking sectors to conduct multifaceted mortgage fraud schemes. Mortgage fraud perpetrators have a high level of access to financial documents, systems, mortgage origination software, notary seals, and professional licensure information necessary to commit mortgage fraud and have demonstrated their ability to adapt to changes in legislation and mortgage lending regulations to modify existing schemes or create new ones.

Mortgage fraud perpetrators target victims from across a demographic range, with perpetrators identifying common characteristics such as ethnicity, nationality, age, and socioeconomic variables, to include occupation, education, and income. They recruit people who have access to tools that enable them to falsify bank statements, produce deposit verifications on bank letterhead, originate loans by falsifying income levels, engage in the illegal transfer of property, produce fraudulent tax return documents, and engage in various other forms of fraudulent activities. Mortgage fraud perpetrators have been known to recruit ethnic community members as co-conspirators and victims to participate in mortgage loan origination fraud.

Financial Impact of Mortgage Frauda

Losses

Total dollar losses attributed to mortgage fraud are unknown; however, law enforcement and mortgage industry participants have attempted to quantify them in recent years. According to CoreLogic (see Appendix A for source description) more than $10 billion in loans originated with fraudulent application data in 2010 .

Economic & Mortgage Market Conditions

Mortgage fraud both impacts and is impacted by various economic conditions such as mortgage loan originations; unemployment; mortgage loan delinquencies, defaults, and foreclosures; negative equity; loan modifications; housing prices and inventory; real estate sales; housing construction; and bank failures. As of December 2010, activity in the housing market remained very weak as new construction and permits declined, demand for housing remained depressed, home sales declined, and home prices decreased.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01....Here's some more for you to laugh at...LOL....

In 2004, the Federal Bureau of Investigation warned of an "epidemic" in mortgage fraud, an important credit risk of nonprime mortgage lending, which, they said, could lead to "a problem that could have as much impact as the S&L crisis".

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reported in January 2011 that: "...mortgage fraud...flourished in an environment of collapsing lending standards and lax regulation. The number of suspicious activity reports—reports of possible financial crimes filed by depository banks and their affiliates—related to mortgage fraud grew 20-fold between 1996 and 2005 and then more than doubled again between 2005 and 2009. One study places the losses resulting from fraud on mortgage loans made between 2005 and 2007 at $112 billion. Lenders made loans that they knew borrowers could not afford and that could cause massive losses to investors in mortgage securities."

New York State prosecutors are examining whether eight banks hoodwinked credit ratings agencies, to inflate the grades of subprime-linked investments. The Securities and Exchange Commission, the Justice Department, the United States attorney’s office and more are examining how banks created, rated, sold and traded mortgage securities that turned out to be some of the worst investments ever devised. As of 2010, virtually all of the investigations, criminal as well as civil, are in their early stages.

Have a very funny day you MORON.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

Tower of Babble. Doesnt answer the question. How are the 1% specifically stopping you from succeeding?

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01....Why are you changing the subject?....................I've showed you how the wall street - Big Banks cheated Americans out of their houses and where responsible for the "great recession" with millions out of work. What else do you need ?

I am astounded that you would ask that question after all the facts I have presented to you.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

The question is about you personally not "all americans" pay attention

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01...Obviously you didn't read my reply, you wouldn't need to ask that question....Your a troll.

[-] 0 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

your tower of babble was about everything other than the question of this post. I saw nothing that answers the question put to you about how the 1% have stopped you from succeeding in life personally.

[-] 1 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 7 years ago

@focus01....Then you didn't comprehend the information.

Try some reading comprehension classes they might help.

[-] 1 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 7 years ago

no I didnt say that and no not one person for sure... there seems to be a culture of corruption and fraud which has enabled many people to get rich or get even richer.

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

and all those people who earn 347K or more are in on it? and everyone below that is out of the loop?

[-] 1 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 7 years ago

I already answered that, no its no an individual thing, does it have to be?

[-] -2 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

yes - individuals behave as individuals. you lefties like to put everyone into groups. 1%, blacks, hispanics, asians, whites, women, homosexuals, transexuals etc. that way you can scapegoat anything. the movement should really be called the 0.001% if anything at all. rediculous collective temper tantrum

[-] 2 points by AndyJ0hn (129) 7 years ago

for one thing I'm not a "lefty", and I haven't put anyone into groups, the statistics clearly show something is out of balance. Lastly I will always defend and respect peoples rights to a different opinion, clearly you don't. juvenile name calling doesn't help anyone

[-] -1 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

when did I call you a name?

[-] -3 points by focus01 (21) from Queens, NY 7 years ago

keep it up

[-] 1 points by ebri (419) 7 years ago

Do you actually respond to those responding to you? That is to say, are you responding with integrity to their questions? It doesn't sound as if you are. Please respond in kind to these earnest questions and comments directed toward your posts.