Forum Post: Please post your best ideas for OWS's future on this thread.. Not predictions. Ideas.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 11:17 p.m. EST by TLydon007
(1278)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Please post your best ideas for OWS's future on this thread.. Not predictions. Ideas.
OWS must at all costs keep the moral high ground. MAINTAIN THE DISCIPLINE OF NON-VIOLENCE. Silent protests, such as the one at UC Davis where students lined the walkway from the chancellor's office to her car, are extremely powerful, and cannot be "twisted" by the media. The power of SILENT PRESENCE is compelling, and will bring more and more American citizens to the movement. Invite those outside the movement (those millions who are deeply sympathetic, deeply grateful to protesters, but busy with survival, jobs, children etc etc) to join in SILENT PROTEST. The brutality of police responses will stand in ever-starker contrast to protesters' actions; the dismissive charge (from mainstream "progressives") of being "disorganized" or "unfocused" will fall away. In silence we are united, and our message screams.
I agree. Silence speaks boldly and loudly. Imagine thousands of people in utter silence looking into the eyes of the officers. A silent stand off. Harnessing silence as a potent tool of non-violent passive action has its place in many settings. I watched a few teach in via video on Saturday and I was impressed with the intelligence and clarity of the providers. Perhaps a silent meditation synchronized and filmed live all around the world would be impressive and coalesce the participants. There are many leaders in the consciousness movement who have not come forward into the limelight. Perhaps they are waiting for a vehicle that suits their "style".
Disagree but I hope to agree :p
I think the #1 thing OWS can do right now is set clear and official movement goals. To be a little less tolorant of stupidity (people in clown suits,clowning around, acting the fool, making the movement look bad) and for once set the record straight that we are not anti-capitalist, we are not anarchist,
Focus on the two most important and very specific things first, while continuing the broad protests.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/254139/20111122/house-democrat-introduces-occupied-constitutional-amendment-ban.htm
This is first of heard of this! Sen. Tom Udall introduced a bill a few weeks ago but this seems to go much further.
We DEFINITELY need to make Congressman Deutsch's amendment known. Definitely something we can get behind. It can also be the first success that we need to snowball this movement towards other successes.
Good post.
Yes, and he's even calling it the "Occupied Amendment." I wonder why more people don't know about it.
He even made it an acronym
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/house-democrat-occupy-the-constitution/2011/11/18/gIQA63CPZN_blog.html
OCCUPIED
Outlawing
Corporate
Cash
Undermining the
Public
Interest in our
Elections and
Democracy
Nice!
I spend a lot of time talking to mainstream folks outside of OWS. From what I am hearing, we have lost the "independents" (who aren't really independent, they just swing either way... "non-affiliated" would be more accurate). They were interested at first, but we never actually said anything, so they generally agree with the mayors, "you've had your time to speak, but you've said nothing, so now it's time to go home."
Without the middle, we have have no power except to spoil the Democrats' chances of winning. We can form a new party, but it can't win without the middle, and it will only draw votes from the Democrats. We can stay with the Democrats, but without the middle to give us real power, Obama will just make a few promises to try and keep us from "none-of-the-above." His track record of keeping promises to minor segments of the party is poor, and based on what I see in these forums, our people know that. Frankly, the most likely outcome I see from us is a "none-of-the-above" vote which would likely deny Obama a victory. Ironic yes, but I see disillusionment growing, and "none-of-the-above" is the usual result it produces. People say OWS was started by the Democrats, but it might just as well have been started by Karl Rove.
We don't have a platform or a candidate much less the financial backing to run him if we did. Even if we got the funding, we'd be ridiculed for accepting the money. A third party is out. All that's left is to try and build sufficient power to change the Democratic party in a fashion similar to the Tea Party.
The Tea Party had one very clear message, "GOVERNMENT IS TOO BIG." We have a multitude of messages (infinite if the conversation in these forums is representative). We need to trim our message back to one big message with broad appeal from the left to the middle. This idea needs to be so non-partisan, so easily understood, and so broadly appealing that we can pull independents into the Democratic party. If we an do that, we can shape the party like the Tea Party shaped the Republican debate.
I believe the one big message is "WE WANT OUR GOVERNMENT BACK." Congress' polling numbers are at an all time low, we've just seen the 'insider trading' scandal, and all Americans know money is corrupting our Democracy. This is the one big message that can pull independents into the Democratic party, and that's how we get sufficient power to change things.
Continuing to babble on about 100 different ideas out on the radical left may be satisfying, but it's not going to result in any real change. If, and that's a huge if at this point, we can rally behind getting the money out of our government, we may be able to get sufficient power to actually do something meaningful.
We can get the money out a number of ways. My proposal at http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/ not only gets the money out, but breaks the two party system. If we only accomplish these two objectives, we will have created a real and fundamental change to the state of America. It's effects will be felt far longer and by far more people than any of the other changes we talk about (and which most of America doesn't even understand).
That's my advice.
I'm sorry Rico but you're 100% wrong.
While Obama might not be the ideal candidate for the OWS he is the best of the group. Check out the "Obama-meter" on Politifact.com and you will see that over 150 of his campaign promises have been kept and another 170+ are in the works. A deeper analysis shows that many of his broken or compromised promises were obstructed by the GOP. That and his public handling of the OWS to this point prove that he is the best candidate available if this movement is to last past the 2012 election. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/
Voting "none of the above" as you stated will solidify the GOP in the coming election and in all honesty a GOP win will result in the suppression of this movement.
If the movement organizes and becomes a support-Obama movement, it loses more than half of America. There is no need to support Obama. Make him work for his own support. Don't give him an entire movement. Keep him as much under your fire as he needs to be. He is a part of the problem. Instead of brining change, he hired the exact same cronies who created this mess to get us out of it. Make him work harder by NOT giving him group support. Stay with a focus on the ideas and ways that need to be changed, and change the public debate so that candidates start stumbling all over themselves to adopt the main points of the OWS movement in hopes of winning individuals or even group support. But don't GIVE anyone that support. If they live and govern in a manner that is socially equitable and that stands strongly against corruption, support of Occupants will naturally flow there way without a group effort.
Besides, who knows how many writing here are just shills for one party or the other, trying to funnel all the political energy of the Occupy movement in their direction. Parties hire numerous people to post on blogs as part of their campaign. Keep them ALL on their toes -- Republican or Democrat.
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
No one said make it a support Obama movement but personally I'm not keen on shooting myself in the foot and if this movement has a chance at sustained influence it's with a dem potus.At lower levels of gov we can have a greater impact and much more influence.
I didn't suggest people vote "none-of-the-above," I only said that is the typical product of disillusionment. Furthermore, my comment specifically suggests the proper home for OWS is likely the Democratic party. I even took flak from conservatives who complain I seemed to be endorsing the Democrats (see other comments to my comment).
Didn't read all that so Im sorry if my response was off base but Im tired of hearing a movement I support talking about taking the most ineffective course of action. The only way to truly change things is from the inside. Whether it's local or national politics we need a few good men/women on the inside who will truly represent our will!
We DO need to exercise our power at the ballot box because, "In a Democracy, the people get precisely the government they deserve." In a similar vein, "In Capitalism, the people get precisely the businesses they deserve."
We the People have been very poor at exercising our economic power. We consistently vote with our dollars for companies that hurt us (see http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/ ).
I compiled some shopping guidelines we developed under a forum post here and hosted them at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit where they are widely accessible and can be shared via social networks. Please read the guidelines and, if you agree, spread the http://bit.ly/DoYourBit link as far and wide as possivle using e-mail, twitter, facebook, etc. We need a LOT of people on board if we are to have an impact.
Note there are no ads at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit, and I do not receive any reward other than the satisfaction of helping Americans use their economic power to change America.
Thanks, Rico.
See now, I have vastly different take than the "none of the above" approach.
I wanted to get 2 pledges going. I've mentioned this a lot on this forum.
1 for politicians with OWS agenda list voted on by occupy groups to pursue our interests.
1 for supporters of OWS to vote in every general and especially every primary election available. This is good because nobody votes in primaries, so we will become the sole voice of who gets put on the ballot. Also, no Democrat can take us for granted based on our disdain of the GOP because we can more easily throw their asses out into the streets for another democrat.
This pledge will also help make Grover Norquist cry himself to sleep every night knowing that his ridiculous pledge is what inspired it.
I can see my self signing on to this (no pun intended) if the idea can be developed a little more.
Good idea to start working the one (I'd say three) big ideas forward to come up with the idea that is most broadly accepted by all and make that your central message.
Bad idea on working so tightly with Democrats (saw the word all over you post) if your goal is to hold the attentions of independents.
As for "independent" v. non-affiliated ... same difference. An independent is someone who reserves his right to cast his vote wherever the best ideas are, not with any particular party. Independents are the ones who really decide elections, as the party base on both sides never has enough voters to make a difference.
If this movement becomes too Democrat-leaning, it will lose independents like myself.
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
I'm not a Democrat, I've been a Republican my whole life, though I'm none to proud of them these days, and I'm ready to jump to something better. I suppose that makes me an Independent that simply registers as a Republican ;o)
I didn't reference the Democrats out of any fondness, I was just pointing out that we don't have the time or money to field a candidate, so we're going to have to work under one of the established parties and try to reshape it to our ends (kinda like the Tea Party did with the Republicans). It's hard to imagine us living in the Republican party, so that left the Democrats.
I followed generally the same path. Was never a registered Republican, but TENDED to vote that way. Even voted for George Bush II -- ONCE. Never again! Couldn't believe he got voted in the second time. Did some serious rethinking about the direction Republicans were headed.
I think that, just like you and I probably do better to remain independent, the OWS movement definitely does better to remain non-partisan. Push for idea. Try to get voters (not so much candidates) from each party to see the value of those ideas and start pushing their own parties in those directions.
--David
I am trying to get people focused on retaking the two primary sources of power available to us. The first is political, and much of our power in that arena has been usurped by the moneyed interests (See http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/ ). The second source of the people's power is economic and derives from the "votes" we make at the check-out register when we shop. We have not been using this second form of power responsibly (See http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/ ).
I compiled some shopping guidelines we developed under a forum post here and hosted them at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit where they are widely accessible and can be shared via social networks. Please read the guidelines and, if you agree, spread the http://bit.ly/DoYourBit link as far and wide as possible using e-mail, twitter, facebook, etc. We need a LOT of people on board if we are to have an impact.
Note there are no ads at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit, and I do not receive any reward other than the satisfaction of helping Americans use their economic power to change America.
I think you're right. We want our government back. I could get behind that 100%, and I think I'm one of those independent / unaffiliated folks you're talking about. What you said here rings very true for me.
Yep. We the People have two forms of power. The first is our power at the ballot box, and the second it our power at the check-out register. The first has been taken from us by special interests with all their money, and we've willing given up the second.
Getting the money out of politics is going to be DAMNED hard because all that money goes to the media outlets. Did you know the media corporations rank presidential election years as "revenue producers" on par with the Olympics? The media will NOT be supporting the idea of getting the money out, so we're going to have to do it outside their system and in spite of their interference.
Taking back our power as consumers in the world's largest consumer market can start right now. We don't need anyone's permission, we just need to start THINKING about what companies and products we're "voting" for with our dollars. I compiled the shopping guidelines we formulated in a forum post here and hosted them at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit where they are more accessible and can be shared via social media. Please read the guidelines, and if you agree, forward the http://bit.ly/DoYourBit link as far and wide as possible via e-mail, twitter, facebook, etc. We need a LOT of people on board if we are to have an impact!
I think we've ignored one question: Why does spending unlimited money on ad campaigns work? The answer is because we the people are in the habit of being manipulated by commercials that lie. The corporations can't vote (yet). If we can convince voters to ignore these campaign ads and find out about the candidates online, and vote for what is truly in their best interest, it could cause the expenditure of a whole lot of money by the corporations to absolutely no effect -- And wouldn't that be cool.
Yep. People don't really like to hear this, but it's true: "In a Democracy, the people get precisely the government they deserve." In a similar vein: "In Capitalism, the people get precisely the businesses they deserve."
Agreed but again... none of this changes with out influence. If we can't use this energy that is the OWS movement to assert the power of the 99% that it represents then this is all just one big circle jerk. We have to have a goal.. whether it is a stated goal or an intended purpose we must have something to rally behind. Forgive the reference but like RATM said "we have to take the power back!" We have to elect members of the OWS to our local school boards and zoning committees , civilian review boards and local legislators, to unions positions and on local labor relation boards. We must infiltrate if we ever hope to wield the force of this movement and of the 99%.
I am as guilty as anyone for coasting through my life, and for all the ills my generation has permitted to grow. I was probably the penultimate generation to live in a strong middle class, college education was affordable, and jobs were plentiful. I knew and ignored what I saw happening, because I was convinced someone in "charge" had to know they were headed for a collapse when an entire society is living beyond its means. My attitude toward politicians was there was no real difference between the parties. However, the Iraqi war woke me up and I started paying attention to politics. I still believe (laugh if you will) that President Obama really does support most of what this Movement does. He is a centrist ... by definition, disliked by both sides...but if he had a supportive Congress, I do believe a lot would improve. If this Movement can produce some candidates for all the open seats, it would indeed make a dramatic difference.
Even though I am a life-long Republican, I just had a discussion with family this morning in which I said "At this point, I like Obama the best from among the available choices, but I want the Republican's to run Congress so he can't spend us into ruin!"
Obama HAS shown me he is a reasonable man who is not afraid to piss off his base if he must to do what's right. I respect that for him. He and I simply have a gentleman's disagreement over the appropriate scope of government involvement in the economy. If the Republicans controlled Congress, he would be constrained, and I would be happy ASSUMING my own damned party can start doing their freakin' job and get off their ridiculous absolutism !
Wait ! Maybe the best solution would be Obama as President and Blue-Dog Democrats running Congress. Hmmmm.... I think that would make me happy !
Maybe I'm less a Republican than I think ;o)
Thereya go. Moderates of either party overlap a great deal. I meant to add to my last post that the political party of anyone who seems reasonable and intelligent is irrelevant, as long as the goal is really to make smart, balanced decisions. I was a Republican, too, until the party shifted so strongly to the right. I don't think we want to pull anything far left; we just want reasonable, intelligent people making the decisions.
You've seen the Democratic light! Bask in its glow! All are welcome! : ) Even the anarchists, so long as they don't intend to overthrow the regime.
i think we should focus on re-litigating corporate personhood. nothing personal, but i think 'we want our govt back' is too vague. how would you suggest we address the decision made in Santa Clara County vs. Southern Pacific Railroad, 1886 that first defined corporate personhood?
I would define it as a necessary condition to allow corporations to enter into contracts.
Yes, my proposal is vague in terms of how specifically we would do that. It is very clear in regards the objective. There's a reason politicians stay away from detail; it tends to drag the discussion down where people can't follow it any more.
You want our platform to be a legal case. Bad move.
I don't see why. Help me understand, I am a novice. It could be a constitutional amendment, perhaps, would that still be a 'legal case' ?
First, you have to get your law straight. Corporate person-hood is not defined by the Constitution but by the 1948 revision to USC Article 1, Section 1. Congress can change it, but even if they did, there would remain some problems.
First, we currently allow some corporations like Fox and MSNBC to practice "free speech" in the political arena, and the 14th Amendment was long ago defined to provide a right to "equal protection under the law." How do you propose to allow one set of Corporations to talk all day about politics but not another ?
Second, you DO understand that the 1948 amendment to USC 1.1 also granted said rights to associations, unions, etc. Are you proposing to deny the Unions a right to speak or only the corporations ? What about other "associations." ?
Third, Corporations are nothing but a means to raise the capital needed to start new businesses without having to go to the bankers. Instead, they go to the Average Joes of the Nation and offer a piece of the company in exchange for capital. This gets the company the capital it needs at low expense AND allows the Average Joes to become "capitalists" even though each has only a little money. The vast majority of corporate stock is held in mutual funds by these Average Joes in their 401k and IRA accounts, and they do quite well when business is up. Corporations are actually a great idea. All we really want to do is constrain them a bit, not eliminate them.
Here's where the problem arises. The initial concept of corporations being "people" arose out of contract law. As it stood, only "people" can enter into contracts and/or be sued. The courts decided that an association of many people could be a "person" so corporations and associations could enter into contracts (and be sued).
So you see, you can't make corporations and associations "non people" or they can't enter into contracts or be sued. What you want to do is constrain their political power, but you have to do that in some unknown fashion that bans some corporations from doing things while allowing others to do those very same things. This will require a very subtle dance around the 14th amendment. The Supreme Court justices aren't corrupt or stupid; they were constrained by the law of the land. The arguments I just gave you are straight out of the majority opinion, and the minority brief by Justice Stevens acknowledge these points.
So your plan is to craft a very intricate bit of legislation dealing in matters 99.9% of America doesn't understand, hold it up high, and say "This is what OWS stands for! Support us! " That's what policy wonks are for. Leaders stay away from detail because it's full of land mines. Instead, they sell vision that's easily understood and widely supported.
As to your second point, please don't assume I know anything, I said I'm a novice. Your point is well taken. I'm guilty of over simplifying the situation and the process. I was just reaching for something like a slogan attached to meaningful legislation. I personally believe that corporations benefit our society in a substantial way, but I'm not really sure how to constrain their influence. I just finished Griftopia by Matt Taibbi, and I pretty sure amazon like money, so I'll get your book too.
I have no book, but I've been a "fan" of politics my whole life. I've personally witnessed 10 presidential elections and 20 Congressional races. After a while, one starts to "get it." Beyond that, when people say things like "The Supreme Court made corporations people!" I actually go research the facts rather than accept what I hear from others as the truth. I researched that particular bit of BS and was more than a little surprised at how wrong it was. I found the same in regards "the Federal Reserve is a private bank!" Not true.
All these ideas based on oft repeated but never checked little falsehoods leads to insanity. Let one OWS leader, assuming we ever find one, stand up and repeat one in front of a camera, and the media will shred him or her to bits. We need to have our facts straight and actually command the topics about which we speak.
Thank you, Rico, for caring enough to be thorough. This is exactly what the rest of us have to learn to do. If OWS can enable people to find out the truth about which politicians really work for people and which ones don't, then the ad campaigns that distort truth will no longer work. Rather than stop the process, stop the process from having any effect.
Yep. "Under Democracy, the people get precisely the government they deserve." In a similar vein, "Under Capitalism, the people get precisely the businesses they deserve." We vote at the ballot box, and we vote at the check-out stand with our dollars. We have not been very responsible with EITHER of our voting powers !
I compiled some shopping guidelines we developed under a forum post here and hosted them at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit where they are widely accessible and can be shared via social networks. Please read the guidelines and, if you agree, spread the http://bit.ly/DoYourBit link as far and wide as possivle using e-mail, twitter, facebook, etc. We need a LOT of people on board if we are to have an impact.
Note there are no ads at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit, and I do not receive any reward other than the satisfaction of helping Americans use their economic power to change America.
oh mistook you for the dude in the interview, it was late.
You can't re-litigate a Supreme Court decision. What you can do is further define it with the creation of new legislation.
The best way to get money out of our government is by taking it away in the first place. With a stalement in DC, suggest eliminating the Income Tax and having the states decide what tax levels they want.
The closer the people are to the money trail, the greater chance you can have in changing your community. The only way to do this is to bring the power of taxation to the states, and even more so, the cities, the towns, your own wallet
Maybe the best way, I don't know, but it will never happen. If we stand up and declare some radical change, we will accomplish nothing. America isn't radical. It may be satisfying to talk this way, but if you really want to change something, you better get closer to the middle or it simply isn't going to happen.
agree
You are right, when I say 'best way' I chose my words poorly, who really knows? But if DC can't make decisions, then let's take their power away, take away the power of the central bank, and let Harrisburg, Albany, Trenton, and the capitals of all our states get involved in these decisions. When DC takes 25% of our paychecks and Harrisburg takes 3% and then we have problems, who's running your life and who's keeping these problems afloat. It is totally possible, it is how we used to be.
We need to start thinking about a day when the Fed takes under 10% of our paychecks and Harrisburg takes around 15%. Others will think Harrisburg should take more, others will say way less, but then Pittsburg or Philly or Allentown will raise their taxes above the measly 1% they collect.
Our state and local elections will be way more important.
It is totally, totally possible. Most people I say this to are very receptive of it. When you have a problem you can drive down the street and go to the city hall who takes lots of your tax dollars instead of being distances away in DC.
You will be so much closer to those who really make the decisions in your own community.
It really isn't a radical idea at all, rather what we do now is way more radical than our country has ever been before.
i typically sneer at anti-federalist sentiments as being rather half-baked, but i like this idea. thanks for sharing.
It is POSSIBLE for the Republicans and Democrats to suddenly agree on how to solve the debt. Your proposal is ALSO possible, and it will happen shortly after the two parties start singing each other's praises. Heck, you;re essentially advocating we return to the Articles of Confederation !
This is what frustrates me so much about this movement. We have hundreds of people throwing around fun ideas, but none of them will ever happen. Americans are not radical, and you can't do even the first little bit of what you propose without having most of them on your side.
I hate to break this to people, but we do NOT have widespread support. We HAD some support, but we've squandered it with useless demonstrations of how "powerful" we are by shutting down ports, being loud, etc. We haven't even been able to tell people what they could give us to make us STOP being so disruptive.
I would like to see a map of where all of the people who post on these sites live (state and political district), and one sentence identifying their hope for this movement. This would give us an idea of what kind of political influence we might have as soon as 2012. Does that sound plausible to you?
Sure, but the trolls will corrupt the votes.
As for me, I have two homes. One on the west coast and one in middle America.
I desire only two outcomes from this movement, and only one is political. The first is getting the money out of politics (see http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/ ). The second is for Americans to start using their economic power responsibly (see http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/ ).
I compiled some shopping guidelines we developed under a forum post here and hosted them at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit where they are widely accessible and can be shared via social networks. Please read the guidelines and, if you agree, spread the http://bit.ly/DoYourBit link as far and wide as possivle using e-mail, twitter, facebook, etc. We need a LOT of people on board if we are to have an impact.
Note there are no ads at http://bit.ly/DoYourBit, and I do not receive any reward other than the satisfaction of helping Americans use their economic power to change America.
Well, perhaps people you trust could let you know just what you did here and you could forward their information to me. The old "pay it forward" concept: each trusted person informs another trusted person, and so on. It would take some time, but I'm willing to compile the information. I love the pay it forward idea,...multilevel marketing of good deeds, ideas, instead of stuff.
I'm trying not to sound like a bot here, but RP does support many of the messages coming out of OWS, at least in the sense that he doesn't know best and wants you to make the decisions in your own state/community, unlike the other candidates who riducule OWS for everything it stands for. RP also believes that if you have a leader who is truly different, honest, and fighting for an idea then the electorate's way of thinking changes as does the make up of Congress.
He has said himself "The revolution is in full swing and he is lucky enough to be a part of it". He doesn't believe it's his revolution, but an idea who's time as come.
Ron Lawl is dangerous and most people don't even know the half of what he stands for. Did you know he's against abortion ? Did you know he has publicly praised Ayn Rand ? That he was the featured speaker at the John Birch Society's 50th anniversary dinner? That he's a fan for good old Republican "family values" and has spoke about them on many occasions ? See http://occupywallst.org/forum/r-o-n-p-a-u-l-really-obnoxious-naive-people-and-un/
Even if I only believed what Ron Lawl is NOW focusing on, I wouldn't support him.
Bring the Federal Reserve under Congressional control ? Did you know that political influence over the Federal Reserve is what caused the Great Depression ? Did you know that we specifically passed the Banking Act of 1935 to remove it from control by the politicians who were using it to further their own political aims ?
Eliminate the Federal Reserve and return to "real money?" Have you researched your history ? Did you know we have had FEWER panics under the Modern Fed (post 1935 reform) than we had before while under the gold standard ? Do you understand why that is ? Also, everyone here agrees the 1% (and China) hold all our wealth, so if we go to gold tomorrow, THEY have it ALL. Did you know that inflation is the long standing solution to redistribute wealth from the rich and debt holders to the poor debtors ?
Eliminate multiple federal agencies and double-down on free enterprise ? Heck, we've all seen how well the private sector takes care of our interests haven't we ?
Walk away from America's role as a world power ? Great. That worked REALLY well for Neville Chamberlain didn't it? Who's going to fill the power vacuum America's retreat into herself will create ? The Chinese? Cool sounding, but unrealistic. Ron Lawl is folksy and full of simple answer to problems that can't be solved simply. He wants to roll the nation back to the good old days of his youth, and that sounds very appealing, but it simply can't be done. Nevertheless, there's always an audience for a folksy guy with simple answers to complex problems.
Ron Lawl = obama Oreo!
How about "TAKE AWAY DC'S POWER" I like that. This can be construed in many ways.
A voting system. A simple poll so to find out the top popular demands..
It's hard to do one via internet because the odds of it being infiltrated by malicious trolls is about 100%.
I think the GA consensus system is good. But I think perhaps another system whereby a web site with pre-made changeable account names and passwords would be made, put on cards, and handed out at occupations. That way only those that take the time to attend occupations can participate. Good post.
If we can bank online we can vote online..It could be done.
Virtual GAs online and eDemocracy prototypes. Create technology tools to help coordinate the live GAs around the country.
Then find a handful of progressive communities to take it to the next level - to run their municipalities on the principles of electronic direct democracy using the tools prototyped by the movement.
If those communities are successful others will follow and momentum can grow.
If they fail it is a learning experience for all and they can revert back to their previous form of municipal government.
Also, on the national / federal level, we need to push hard for real reform not just to get money out of the election process but also to open up the process to more political parties and make it much easier for them to get a footing in the elections. The bar is currently way too high.
Yeah I know none of this actually touches on "wall street" but I believe these actions get to the heart / root cause and I don't much like draconian restrictions on free enterprise, I just think their ability to run roughshod needs to be tempered by empowering individuals in all levels of government.
Its actually been tried before in various manifestations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_direct_democracy_in_the_United_States
Wasn't really a failure, though. It eventually led to the rise of the Progressive movement. God knows I wouldn't mind if that happened again. While I don't really believe in Direct Democracy so much, I think it would be great for instituting meaningful reforms like the Progressive movement did. Maybe we could bring back the same exact reforms they did, that have been taken away.
Are we that ignorant that we have to pay someone to vote for us? The real power is in the vote! Start a signature petition to eliminate the senate in each state then do the same with the house of representatives and go to a direct vote by the people. Nebraska already has a one branch state congress. Vote politicians out of jobs and you will see the power of the vote.
This is similar to my plan where we construct 2 pledges..
One for politicians with a list of agenda items most important to OWS.
Another one for the supporters of OWS that vows to vote in every primary and general election. Especially primaries. Nobody votes in primaries, so they only win by a couple hundred votes. In that case, Democrats can't depend on our fear of the GOP because we can throw their asses out for someone willing to sign and uphold our pledge. We can also throw out mayors (usually Democrats) that violated our right to assembly.
I like your idea too though. Good post.
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I am very supportive of the ideas proposed by Michael Moore:
10 Things We Want A Proposal for Occupy Wall Street Submitted by Michael Moore
Eradicate the Bush tax cuts for the rich and institute new taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on corporations, including a tax on all trading on Wall Street (where they currently pay 0%).
Assess a penalty tax on any corporation that moves American jobs to other countries when that company is already making profits in America. Our jobs are the most important national treasure and they cannot be removed from the country simply because someone wants to make more money.
Require that all Americans pay the same Social Security tax on all of their earnings (normally, the middle class pays about 6% of their income to Social Security; someone making $1 million a year pays about 0.6% (or 90% less than the average person). This law would simply make the rich pay what everyone else pays.
Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, placing serious regulations on how business is conducted by Wall Street and the banks.
Investigate the Crash of 2008, and bring to justice those who committed any crimes.
Reorder our nation's spending priorities (including the ending of all foreign wars and their cost of over $2 billion a week). This will re-open libraries, reinstate band and art and civics classes in our schools, fix our roads and bridges and infrastructure, wire the entire country for 21st century internet, and support scientific research that improves our lives.
Join the rest of the free world and create a single-payer, free and universal health care system that covers all Americans all of the time.
Immediately reduce carbon emissions that are destroying the planet and discover ways to live without the oil that will be depleted and gone by the end of this century.
Require corporations with more than 10,000 employees to restructure their board of directors so that 50% of its members are elected by the company’s workers. We can never have a real democracy as long as most people have no say in what happens at the place they spend most of their time: their job. (For any U.S. businesspeople freaking out at this idea because you think workers can't run a successful company: Germany has a law like this and it has helped to make Germany the world’s leading manufacturing exporter.)
We, the people, must pass three constitutional amendments that will go a long way toward fixing the core problems we now have. These include:
a) A constitutional amendment that fixes our broken electoral system by 1) completely removing campaign contributions from the political process; 2) requiring all elections to be publicly financed; 3) moving election day to the weekend to increase voter turnout; 4) making all Americans registered voters at the moment of their birth; 5) banning computerized voting and requiring that all elections take place on paper ballots.
b) A constitutional amendment declaring that corporations are not people and do not have the constitutional rights of citizens. This amendment should also state that the interests of the general public and society must always come before the interests of corporations.
c) A constitutional amendment that will act as a "second bill of rights" as proposed by President Frankin D. Roosevelt: that every American has a human right to employment, to health care, to a free and full education, to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat safe food, and to be cared for with dignity and respect in their old age.
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Financial instability causes unending grief to all: demands to avoid it. You are protesting against this infamous financial instability, which causes unending grief to all. Its causes are the turning of the stock market into a gambling casino, where the innocent are the constant losers. Gambling causes crisis, which in turn hits the innocent. Main kinds of gambling: 1) Buying with no money, selling stocks one does not have, the so called futures. This is a major source of instability, as it turns any forecast into harsh reality. 2) Derivative market: the underlying goods are so distant that one does not know anymore what one is buying. This instrument is at the basis of the subprime mortgage crisis, which is still biting, Assume now that both these activities are forbidden: the market would eliminate a lot of gambling and speculation and would return to being a market instead of a gambling casino. One can only buy with money one has, sell stocks one has, buy and sell actual property. We should eliminate all kinds of paper wealth. I submit that these should be the demands of your movement. Good luck to you and to us all.
"One can only buy with money one has, sell stocks one has, buy and sell actual property. We should eliminate all kinds of paper wealth. "
The second sentence there contradicts the first one.
Other than that, I recommend you read more about the derivatives for educational purposes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000
I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I just think there's some oversimplification in your language that could use some fine tuning.
Otherwise, nice post.
I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.
For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
I enjoyed your post and very much understand your frustrations.
I also had suggested that we have alternative forums, but it was made known to me that forum tends to be the only one where newcomers go to read about OWS. So if we go elsewhere, we may marginalize how many people have access to our messages.
What I think we need is creative ideas and people intelligent and diligent enough to make them happen.
I definitely like your idea of sub-forums coexisting with the general forum. It would help us in collaborating on certain projects. We could also seek out smarter people on the general forum who can help collaborate with us.
By the way, could you include a forum on your wiki?? That may help it gain attention..
Good post.
i will certainly forward that request to the techie.
Should focus more on automation and what it's doing to our labor market. More jobs have been lost due to automation than to outsourcing.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/jobs-are-becoming-obsolete-due-to-advances-in-tech/
Hmmm. I'm not sure if I'd be happy to see this become a Neo-Luddite movement for a couple of reasons.
When I think of automation, I'm thinking of the most menial tasks. I really think those that are replaced should be compensated or perhaps given assistance in either re-education or finding another job(maybe a government one that can't be automated).
I'm also optimistic about automation because once all the most dehumanizing tasks are taken care of, we should all have more time to devote to more humanistic endeavors (art, philosophy, science, etc.).
I know this can't happen in the current system because there's still work that needs to be done. But I think automation could actually make such a system seem more feasible.
I like the post, though.
In a Boston neighborhood known as the North End, old world style shops selling fruit, meat, etc, all continue to prosper. In light of supermarkets, they're redundant. There is no automation, it's mostly cash and carry.
It's not in line with a lean model. They're less efficient by nature.
But they have work. They make a living, they know their product, their customers, and they're part of a community. They're proud of their small shops, they sweep the sidewalks, and contribute to the quality of life.
Dehumanizing tasks? Automation is largely responsible for creating them. Thoughtless, mindless jobs feeding the larger machine, vs stacking your product and chatting up your customers?
Re-think. Automation does help to reduce the amount of labor involved. But the implication is that labor is a bad thing. It's not.
And rather than paying people, the big company gets a write-off for the machine. So, we're paying, in essence, for Redbox to kill off every job at Blockbuster.
Work is not dehumanizing.
Unions came into being to fight a race to the bottom that was taking place around treatment of workers. But finding newer and shinier ways to eliminate jobs will not free 'us' to do more humanistic things. That's why OWS is happening. Automation has freed people from the means to feed and house themselves.
I'm not sure your understanding what I said.
I 100% advocate unions and am part of one. But I'm simply not a Luddite. I do think the way this country handles automation and outsourcing is atrocious.
Normally, if a company needs to downsize workers in a union, they can only incentivize them with buyout offers. Sometimes with big bonus and money for relocation and re-education. I think ALL jobs should entail this. And if nobody takes it, they should have no choice but to either raise the offer, or offer you another position within the company as an alternative.
However, we have an absurd system where the company can instead choose to outsource or automate and evade ALL of their responsibilities towards their employees.
As for the problem with Redbox putting Blockbuster out of business, I advocate the government offering more grant money to retrain displaced workers for other career fields.
As for "dehumanizing", I'm mostly referring to jobs that CAN be replaced in assembly lines.
My comment on devoting time to more humanistic things is my view of the long-term effects of automation as long as the workers rights to be afforded other opportunities is acknowledged and they are only displaced because they were willing to accept an alternative offer (from the company automating their job) that makes it worth it for both parties.
I'm not against automation, I'm for automation, but we have to acknowledge what's happening in order to rearrange our society to accommodate it.
"rearrange our society to accommodate it."
That's EXACTLY where I stand. If we have a surplus of goods from automation, why on earth should we be forced to live further into poverty?? If anything, we should all be provided with more opportunities to do things that may not generate short-term profit.
I agree. It's our old paradigm that needs to change. We need to stop thinking in terms of "do we have the money?" and start thinking in terms of "do we have the resources?"
Use the KISS model (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Occupy Wall Street started as anti-Wall Street protest to bring attention to the criminal activity on Wall Street. Keep the focus on the message. The conversation has turned to primarily focus on Income Inequality. Focus on the criminal activities and injustices. They are stronger than the message of income inequality, because income inequality divides people - too many Americans are opposed to raising taxes on principle, where justice is something that nearly everyone stands with.
Take a nod from Michael Moore. Virtually every time I see him appear on a television spot, he almost never fails to remind the public who the real criminals are.
They took away your park - TAKE it back. Don't let them dictate the rules to you. Their rules let criminals walk while they persecute the victims for standing up for their rights. I understand what I'm asking and what I think the city's reaction would be. But don't you get what would then run through people's minds if they saw a strong overplay of force against you. And if they succeed in kicking you out, go back. go back. go back. They can't stop the idea. They can't evict you. Why aren't these police after the REAL CRIMINALS and messing with the citizens. We all Know who the real criminals are - WE KNOW WHO THE BAD GUYS ARE. THEY ARE NOT US. TAKE BACK THE PARK! HOLD YOUR SIGNS PEACEFULLY AND TELL THEM TO GO ARREST SOME REAL CRIMINALS.
I agree that the use of media, but I would hesitate before using Michale Moore as an example. He was sloppy on politics, policy, and history. Aditionally, the mere mention of his name might push moderate-left and independent away from us. Radical is fun, but reasonable gets results.
I went on a bit a rant with that post because I had just watched the Inside Job documentary.
Inside Job was a great documentary..
I had never heard of it till I was on a flight to Ireland and it was offered On Demand. Watched it twice on the way there and twice on the way back.
"Radical is fun, but reasonable gets results."
Reasonable did not get results in 2010.
Somehow, we need a poll: http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-to-get-a-mainstream-nationwide-poll/
Develop goals, recruit good people and run them for congress to fight for those goals. Stop the practice of telling the world to simply change things, get people politically involved to make the changes happen.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/please-post-your-best-ideas-for-owss-future-on-thi/#comment-411829
This is how I suggest we do that.
make occupy banks
put up occupy communications satellites
create Internet wealth distribution systems LIke I am trying to do at http:///www.occupyvideo.org
Wear tshirts that say
"Simple math. Burn down the right 500 houses and save 10,000 foreclosures"
Then have a few thousand people wear them, protest at a few of the houses of the corporate managers and govt officials who are responsible for foreclosures, and light their lighters.
AND have a real proposal govt can actually pass - and have it done NOT BY CONSENSUS - but have it done by a small and highly intelligent and qualified work group who understands the mortgage industry.
(consensus is GREAT and hugely powerful - but NOT appropriate for everything!)
Stop using Google/Facebook/YouTube and make Occupy ones instead. They are part of the worst of the .0001%
If occupy can unify and make YouTube number 2, imagine the result!!!
Get consensus from all occupys around the world and put the list of things at http://www.Occupy1.org or other site.
Use Harvard Law Schools H20 Rotisserie software to bring the best ideas to the top. The system we all use now, SUCKS, and does not work when it comes to getting consensus for all the important issues. Usng the software, this can be accomplished in several days, instead of months. Thats a start.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
I agree with Naomi Klein and Chris Hedges. OWS needs to keep doing what it is doing. It needs to organize, organize organize. It needs to organize until their is a GA in every county, in every municipality, in every neighborhood, on every block, in every nursing home, in every drug rehabilitation clinic, in every homeless shelter, in every school and university, in every mental hospital, in every military barracks, in every jail and prison, in every work place. Everywhere. Them we will be in a position to plan the future, to reorganize society democratically from below.
One demand fixes most of what is wrong with our government "PUBLIC FINANCING OF CAMPAIGNS"! Also, stop pissing everyday people off. Protests against Fox News are great but creating headaches for people around the city will make people hate a movement that is badly needed.
Let's not "occupy" everything or it will become a joke. Stick to Wall St. and fascism and there might be a chance that some thing gets done about it.
If we occupy the supermarket; the salon; the gas station; McDonald's; occupy your mom; your mom is so fat she occupied walmart, UC Davis, the brooklyn bridge and golden gate bridge at the same time.
Here is another thought. I agree with other posts elsewhere that educating those outside the movement is absolutely crucial.... and I suggest we do so using the following: What we seek is GOVERNMENT OF, BY, AND FOR THE PEOPLE, with LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. Framing it in this language (taken from the Gettysburg Address and the Pledge of Allegiance) will resonate with just about all Americans - and this formula encompasses, I think, just about every change we would like to see: repealing corporate "personhood", getting rid of the Electoral College, protecting and enhancing voting rights, including instituting things like instant runoff voting; campaign finance reform; building a government responsive to climate change issues, to the needs of the most vulnerable; moving beyond institutionalized racism in the criminal justice system and elsewhere; reinstating our civil liberties; true accountability to the rule of law for those in government and business; creating a government committed to providing quality education, childcare; finally seeing the light and providing universal health care; etc etc etc. It can ALL fall under this umbrella. Those taking up the fight can frame themselves as the true patriots; the whole movement becomes like the American Revolution 2.0. GOVERNMENT OF, BY AND FOR THE PEOPLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.
I have been following the movement since its beginning. My only contribution to the Movement is though Wall Street appears to be in charge and each of us is suffering in some way...I would like to suggest that the message needs to be even more finely tuned...we need to fight for our intrinsic rights spelled out in our Constitution which has become virtually meaningless. Individuals like me who suffer from a government created disease, which the government does not even acknowledge exists and is used as a data collection mechanism for the epidemiology of other diseases....my rights were taken away before I ever had a chance...and was not given a choice...We need to fight for the words written for each of us in the Preamble...the right to life, liberty, freedom....etc...If we expose this, we expose the pharmaceutical manufactures, thus impacting the Wall Marts and the other Big-Boys...then We Own Wall Street and have forced accountability from our government to ensure our basic rights.
"Individuals like me who suffer from a government created disease"
What disease, if you don't mind me asking?
Happy Thanksgiving! The disease I am fighting is called Morgellons Disease. It is a horrible affliction. My body is covered in large open wounds that do not heal and my hair is almost completely fallen out and my lymph nodes create a nice pearl strand outlining my neck. But, my lymph system is useless to me and countless other suffers. As an independent researcher, I have traced the diseases origin back to pre-WWI. The United States Department of the Army was researching and performing live testing of chemical and bio-chemical warfare agents on service members and unknowing citizens...This was thought to be the testing ground to create a counter defense against the threats of chemical and bio-chemical warfare used against the US by Germany, Russia, China, Italy, and Japan. All servicemen serving in WW2 were forced to take vaccinations for Yellow Fever, Typhoid and other fatal diseases. The Yellow Fever vaccine was not available to the public until 1953...and quickly retracted due to the mounting cases of medical complications. Reader's Digest Version, employing genomics and understanding the devastating uses of nanotechnology in the environment and in common prescriptions individuals with certain genetic traits are predisposed to this disease which causes a biofilm response which "tricks" the immune system. An individual may be born with a genetic predisposition to the disease AND if not through genetics it can be contracted through chemtrails in the environment and countless other agents. We are antibiotic resistant...no medications for us and no cure. My research has even gone a little further - linking this KILLER biofilm to other diseases: Autism, Alzheimers, Cystic Fibrosis, Hardening of the Arteries, Fibro Cystic Lump Disease...all imunosuppressant diseases and many inflamatory diseases cause biofilm. The government, big business and the pharmaceutical companies are in a threesome...they make billions of dollars in profits as they knowingly cause needless suffering and ultimately death. (Hmmm throw in the use of actuarial science and we immediately have a silent mechanism to controll the population. We anguish over stem-cell research, and the right to life and when does life begin! The right to life according to the Constitution does not apply to Morgellons victims. Furthermore the government partners and creates these huge "Charities" (talk about ponzi scheme) and rapes the poor victims, families, friends and the public at large all in the name of "Donate to the Cause." One day we will find a cure...when there will never be a cure...it would expose the truth. My last point is the concept of hereditary...yes, we are genetic derivatives of our parents, grand parents and great parents etc...but the government, CDC, and the medical community have coined a phrase " Oh, it's hereditary...it's in your genes." What they fail to tell us is why a particular disease is "Hereditary." (By using our parents, grand parents and such as science projects for some military study, independent lab research study...it is unconscionable what has been done and what is going on around us now. The CDC does not recognize Morgellons, thus, the suffers go without medical treatment. Instead they are told it is in their heads and are diagnosed delusional. I could go on and on...The Department of Defense just posted on their website that a potential study on the link between genetics and Morgellons...I would love for the protestor's signs to add: Acknowledge Morgellons! We have no voice. Thanks so much for your reply regarding the nature of the disease. I make it a daily practice to try to educate at least 5 people about Morgellons and in return ask if there is cancer or any of the above listed diseases in the respective families ...if I hear YES, I ask if the person would be willing for me to interview them regarding the disease, treatment received or currently receiving so that I may further my research in linking the biofilm diseases. Yes, we are the 99%! However, individuals with Morgellons or any other biofilm disease...WE ONLY NEED 1...a medication to stop the production of biofilm and give us our immune systems back!
does anyone know where Lou Rawls stands on ows ?
To the list of goals that I read from a Truthout message, i wish you would add an amendment or reverse the law or whatever it takes to prevent Congress from using Social Security funds.
Deprivatizing hospitals and utility companies would be a huge help.
I also wish you would send this list to President Obama, and get him and VP Biden to activelly engage in the conversation, with comittments as to what they will do to help the OWS meet the goals.
Bless you all, and thank you!
ows could buy weapons from the chinese and start there own army and then ows could dictate laws and financial reform
Hmm..
I'm thinking that buying a bunch of weapons and forming an army may jeopardize our policy of being a "non-violent" movement.
I dont think that the United States government really cares about our consitutonal rights, as long as they line thier pockets and maintain power they dont care. If they feel their power threatened they will limit our rights, good examples of this are: The bonus Marchers during the great depression, the WWI veterans were promised a pention for their services in the war in the 1940's, well the depression hit and 15,000 veterans went to the capital where they camped around the capital building, and petitioned to abtain their pentions early so they could survive and feed their families. The police were sent in to clear them out, but the police paniced and fired into the crowed and killed 2 vets, Then the Goventment sent in the military to force the protesters from Washington D.C; Another example is the espionage act created during WWI which stated that anyone who says anything negitive about the Govenment will be placed in prision.I dont think that the movment should stop, i mearly suggest that it make itself more clear about what they want, and make it clear that They are not going to move til The changes they want are put into place. All without violent conflict
That was the first Bonus Army conflict.
Roosevelt handled things much differently than Hoover did and should be acknowledged.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army#Aftermath
possibly creating a new plitical party?
create a national day for starters www.nationalday911.org
Corporate greed is not illegal but larceny is.
Corporations stealing America’s savings are the root cause of our current financial state. I have worked the trenches. I am a retired computer financial systems analyst. Corporations have pilfered many $billions to subsidize corporate goals: Lavish executive pay. legions of lobbyists, profit growth exceeding GDP growth, campaign funding as of 2010, M&A frenzy, etc. A decade of transferring funds from the masses to a few created a huge wealth gap. This larceny continues to impoverish the middle class. The market tanked. Retirement dreams have faded. Jobs outlook is bleak.Housing is kaput. Ad nauseam. This crime wave has brought us to the brink of ruin. A democracy is being traitorously forged into a plutocracy. The thefts of shareholder value must stop. Alert the Administration, daily. Harangue your Congressmen. Enlighten your friends. If you incurred substantial losses since 2000 insist the FBI investigate your situation. Impale or hang in effigy the SEC as a poor guardian / rogue cop / gang leader.
if you know their system, you can beat them at their own game. & you would have them on their knees if you know how to make them commit to having to give you their homes. They will refuse to play their game if we know the rules.. & these below are the rules...
Start charging them with assault. If they won't give their names, have them arrested as imposters. REALLY! call the police. If they refuse, go to another police station & report the one that wouldn't do anything. Go round all precincts, all over the country & drown them in paperwork, Insist they work for the people. according to their oath, or you will have them arrested, & will take their house in payment of failing to provide a service. Their contract is meant to be with the people...They cannot deny a lawful request. If they insist on doing nothing, say the cost of that Sir, will be your property. Do you consent. Then if they do nothing, they have consented, so put a commercial lien again their private properties. It can be done. Talk to the guys @lawfulrebellion, & they can tell you the real points of law to do it. But it really is that simple. Take their properties. When the judges fail to resolve it, do the same for them. Those that get arrested, & see the judge, if he makes an order, you CAN SAY 'The cost of that order Sir will be $1 million, (whatever you want to say) .of your own personal liability. Do you consent? He will agree to pay it & keep the order in place, or he will have to let you go. He wont pay it!! The law is an illusion. It is about contract, not constitution. Or you can actually say 'No Thank you' to the judge. He must accept it if you do not consent. Always present yourself as an agent for whatever name is on the ticket, as the judge is an agent for the state, & you cannot be held accountable. research it, please. It is your way out, to make them accountable. You can only BE agents,for the judge to address you. There must be a meeting of the minds under color of law. Agent vs agent, man vs man. they are not interchangeable. It means it only looks like law. It is hidden in plain site.. If you are accountable, so is he. In court, He is actually a trustee, so He is the person named on the ticket, until you say your name.... So say 'I am the agent for that name sir'. Legal fiction vs STRAWMAN, (google)... you the man vs man (dressed up as a judge.) look it up if only to call me a liar......
Demand a coalition government. This being a rainbow coalition consisting of the following political parties: The Occupiers, The Democrats, The Green Party, The Republicans, and The Tea Party.
*The Occupiers are the modern day socialist party
"The Occupiers are the modern day socialist party"
Why??
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Please consider Occupying Grover Norquist. He is a non-elected special interest person to whom elected officials are bullied into signing his no tax pledge. He threatens them with "primarying" them if they do not pledge not to raise taxes or if they get elected, if they vote to raise taxes on anyone. Find out if he is one of the 1%. Find out where he gets the funds he uses to run his organization and to threaten elected officials not to ever raise taxes on anyone. He is the cause of many of the financial problems that exist today.
I already addressed this..
http://occupywallst.org/forum/please-post-your-best-ideas-for-owss-future-on-thi/#comment-412833
It's called "benchmarking". You take successful plans (he's an ass, but he has been successful) and then you steal them.
I also advocate throwing out every democrat that dares sign his pledge to destroy america.
We just need more occupiers to set aside their pride and re-register as democrats so we can hijack the party.
Good post.
I would suggest that for D17 that we march in Silence and let our signs speak. This way the Militia Police have NO REASON or THREATENING feelings, and SIlence is a powerful weapon, shows disdain in ways voices cannot express!!!
Wall Streets 12000.00 DOW Less 20x Leverage = 600.00 DOW. The rest is False Profit. Reality BITES Welfare for all Wall Street investors
Not to detract from your point, but I'm pretty sure that formula doesn't make much sense.
The Dow Jones is just an index that doesn't really reflect profits or even a specific company's financial standing. It's based on the prices of 30 industrial components.
Are you saying that the banks leveraged risk bolstered the Dow Jones??
I'm having trouble understanding.
Hypocrisy has doomed America.
Can hypocrites prosper? Are all Americans in a trance? Are they actually as stupid as they act? If any person is completely innocent of the allegation of a crime including child molesting would they pay a settlement to dispose of the charges, or would they welcome a trial in open court?
There are people who are guilty who also go to trial. Sometimes they win the trial. The best example are the 4 cops who attacked Rodney King and the jury acquitted those cops. They had a black prosecutor with Judge Stanley Weisberg who is not only a slimy creep who should give Jews a very bad name because Jews never shun Stanley Weisberg who managed starting a huge riot in LA. Jewish lawyers should know that Weisberg committed a vicious crime by presiding over the trial designed by him to acquit the cops.
Fifty-three people died during the riots including 10 shot dead by the army and police[23] with as many as 2,000 people injured. Estimates of the material losses vary between about $800 million and $1 billion. Approximately 3,600 fires were set, destroying 1,100 buildings, with fire calls coming once every minute at some points. Widespread looting also occurred. (Wikipdedia)
Only pure rotten hypocrites would condone Weisberg. I watched Weisberg closely in the Menendez trial. Weisberg prevented the option of not guilty for the jury to decide. That is way beyond any constitutional right to a fair trial when the judge condemns the defendants making it impossible for any acquittal. When the SS had cattle cars come to pick up all the Jews, they jumped into them. When the government uses cattle cars to transport an entire group who the hate, they are not going to any place nice. Jumping into cattle cars means you believe any ridiculous lie.
For the Jews to not believe Jesus was the messiah God promised them, is a unique mistake by all the Jews. Being completely wrong about Jesus Christ is a monumental mistake by all the Jews. I once tried to discuss this with Rabbi Stein of Rodolph Sholem synagogue, but the Rabbi became very angry at me. When Jews are completely wrong they get angry when they are confronted by the truth. Why would that be insulting? Why can't the facts and reason be discussed with Jews?
When Americans who act weird they also refuse to discuss their weird behavior. Americans are as arrogant as the Jews. They brag they are better than all other people. While there have been wonderful Americans that have accomplished great things, as an entire nation America has become completely nuts. Their idea that they can create bogus trillions of dollars that will solve the economic collapse and refuse any sensible remedies to creating a $203 billion deficit in September. Now they openly talk about reneging on "the trigger" budget that doesn't begin until 2013. America is an openly dead beat country. There isn't 1 American economist who has any clue of the insane, moronic economic plan by the American government.
Slaves in China are fine with all Americans. Preventing any slave made goods to be imported is the constitution that was amended in 1865. The constitution is irrelevant to the United States Supreme Court. That's a proven fact hidden by non-published cases. Not only is the American nation buying most of its goods from slave owners, America has put 50,000,000 American workers out of work. Only weird arrogant hypocrites would ever do that to themselves.
Thank you so much for your inflammatory, anti-semitic input.
I'll be sure to propose jew-hating at the next GA I attend as the next logical step for OWS
I'll be sure to wear my yarmulke when I do, you racist fuck.
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VIVA LA HUELGA!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf-vdW-EhMY
Espero que los mexicano-americanos unirse a este movimiento. Que ibamos a ganar manana.
It's time we Occupy FOX News and forcing the issue of their lies about the American Patriots of the 99%
I'm sorry, but Fox News simply can't be brought down from the outside. Regarding that, we need some occupiers that are willing to go the extra mile and learn the skills necessary to get employed there. Their website and the websites of think-tanks frequently include job postings with their desired qualifications. If you are systems administrator, maybe you can help us by infiltrating and exposing all their most sensitive data, bringing their hate-machine crumbling down. Otherwise, there's no other way.
Good post.
It's time we Occupy FOX New and forcing the issue of their lies about the American Patriots of the 99%
www.nationalday911.org for starting to change things a lot needs to be done
How about term limits for all government workers that have been voted into their postio?
A constitutional convention on debt. The GA grass roots direct democracy approach already in place lends itself well to a state by state call for a constitutional convention on debt.
The things I'd hope to get out of that (there are others, but these are low hanging fruit)
1) Make the war powers act an amendment. 2) Some kind of balanced budget amendment (like, the Buffet Rule, but whatever, the specifics don't matter this early). 3) Income inequality amendment (for lack of a better term at the moment). The basic idea here would be that if income inequality reaches a certain level automatic measures will kick in.
All of these can be argued and will be argued to death - and they are just stuff thrown on the wall for examples - but multiple changes are required to the constitution and largely against the will of the government (like the 17th amendment, requiring Senators to run for office), a constitutional convention is the way to go.
Get a leader, develop an effective organizational structure and lose the anarchy.
Move forward as a protest to address government corruption, working with and through government to enact legislation that will provide fair and equal representation for all human bodied persons equally.
yall should quit censorsing words and thoughts
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I think that a cohesive letter listing the concerns of the movement, policy changes that we would like to see and expected outcomes, and expected actions of our elected officials. Not only should this be sent to congress en mass, individuals from each state should send it to their state senators and congressmen, along with a petition from each movement member from that state. Everything should be copied to the media. They need to know that they represent us. Each state also needs to invite their elected representatives to their protest sites, and these invitations need to be copied to all major media outlets. If they take the invitation they will be forced to look protesters in the eye and get to know us. If they don't, they will look like elected officials who wouldnt listen to their constituents. Finally, we need to insist that if the CEOs for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac want their $2m bonuses, for companies that recieved huge bailouts and are still loosing cash, that they recieve them at Walter Reed Army Hospital, in front of wounded veterans. They were asked by government concervators to fix broken government institutions and want money. If they want it, they should recieve it in front of men who volunteered to serve their country for less than $30 K a year and paid the price for it.
If Occupy Wall Street really wants to change the world, the occupy the Super Committe in Washington. The people on this committe that are obstructionist toward finding a solution to the deficit are causing the American economy to get worse and therefore make it tougher for people to get jobs. They are supported by the super rich. Haven't you noticed that the stocks of Tiffany's and Coach are going up while the economy suffers? Why do you think this is? Because the super rich are spending money like water while the rest of us are struggling. Fix this problem and change the world!!!
Find and embrace a solution... without a solution OWS is just a bunch of people complaining. Here is a solution: http://subsidizedlabor.org/
While I like your idea, we have proposed quite a few solutions.
Reinstating Glass Steagall
Ending Corporate Personhood
Campaign Finance Reform
More Progressive tax rate
There are others, but I think your idea has its place in the overall narrative of the movement.
Good post.
Thanks, I now believe we just have to focus on a single idea. Given all of the options, ending corporate personhood is what I would focus on. We have to make one thing happen before we can accomplish anything else. http://endcorporatepersonhood.us/
I have a few ideas. How about a list of the grievances,and possible solutions. As an example. Lobbying congress. End the corporate lobby.
On another note,I think a strong message could be sent with a few effigies. (not so sure of the legalities here) Ben Bernanke,anyone ?
The grievances solutions idea is great. However, not all lobbying involves campaign contributions and bribes. Much of it can simply be a company being represented by explaining how a particular piece of legislation would effect their particular company or the companies they represent. This also includes lobbies that oppose corporate interests explaining the ramifications.
As far as effigies, it may jeopardize the public perception of us as a non-violent movement.
Good post, though.
-- Direct Action - Proposal before the committee: A Demonstration of Tongues . . . . Nov. 13, 2011
http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/direct-action-proposal-before-the-committee-a-demo/
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-- Targeted Interdiction - What is it? . . . . Nov. 14, 2011
http://occupywallst.org/forum/targeted-interdiction-what-is-it/
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-- I have been saying Attack the Lies. . . . . Nov. 22, 2011
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-have-been-saying-attack-the-lies/
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more:
http://occupywallst.org/users/ZenDog/
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z
Well, I disagree with the first one. Tearing out someone's tongue may compromise our policy of non-violence.
The second one, I didn't really understand.
I did like the third one. I'm getting a little sick and tired of having to resort to statistics when a bank commits fraud on a massive scale. I'm also tired of relying on anecdotal evidence. It seems like making the occupations available for victims of fraud to garner attention would be really effective. Especially at getting people to understand what we represent.
1 out of 3. Good post.
Oh, common. The first one is clearly hyperbole. We aren't going to go around cutting tongues.
But as a set of tweet bombs, it would be very effective.
And the second is in part an attempt to encourage thinking about how we use language - it's called linguistics.
There's a bit more than that to the piece. I would like to hear more about your confusion. If you're inclined to elucidate, please post here:
-- Targeted Interdiction - What is it? . . . . Nov. 14, 2011
http://occupywallst.org/forum/targeted-interdiction-what-is-it/
that way if I can answer with clarity perhaps others may benefit.
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z
Target the very worst bank and boycott it with a list of three simple demands to its board. You will not drop the boycott until they...
1) cut all executive pay to no more than 10x the average company salary (still a huge amount but a bitter pill for them to swallow) and eliminate all bonuses;
2) fire all vice presidents who were in their positions for a year just prior to when the bank needed a bailout (likewise with the president/CEO if it is the same person who was in power when the bank first failed); and
3) all board members who voted to hire the president/CEO who presided over the bank's initial failure just before the bailout step down for their stupid choice.
If they won't do that, let them break all the way to total bankruptcy.
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
"Target the very worst bank and boycott it with a list of three simple demands to its board. You will not drop the boycott until they..."
I think "targeting the worst" is a great idea. While it may seem subjective, maybe we can all take a vote?? And we'll keep "targeting the worst" until they've all individually lifted themselves to an acceptable level.
Good post.
"Targeting the worst" - you're right - is a great idea.
With politicians, the worst sign the pledge for Grover Norquist to protect Big Wealth from tax increases. They are from both parties, and they are wholly-owned creatures of the 1%.
At the very least, we should throw out every Democrat that signed Grover Norquist's pledge to destroy America in the next primaries.
That advantage of targeting the one worst is that it provides you with a clear starting point where you will find the most public sympathy; it keeps you from spreading your resources too thin and allows you to, thereby, bring incredible pressure on the one giant that is the worst (which will not come down easily); and it makes a major example when it does come down to everyone of just what you can do to them, sending fear into all, some of whom may then start to scramble for reform on their own.
Bank of America and J.P. Morgan Chase (which gobbled up Bear Sterns) come to mind as two of the most egregious and greedy who already have tons of legal problems pulling them down like the Lilliputians strings on Gulliver. (You can read more about their conglomerations at: http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2009/01/downtime-collapse-of-the-colossus )
The big game changer is an entirely new economy based around new technologies for generating massive amounts of very cheap energy, namely Andrea Rossi's ECAT & Searl Magnetics SEG. Both of these technologies could revolutionise every aspect of life on our planet, creating for the first time the possibility of an economy based on abundance instead of scarcity. I have included a link below to a article on another forum that explains this idea rather well.
http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11389
P.S. The authors other articles are well worth the read as well if you have the time.
I've actually already read about Anrea Rossi's cold fusion-based Energy Catalyzer.
I read about it for 2 reasons.
If any scientist created a device that utilizes cold-fusion, they would immediately become a billionaire overnight because it would immediately solve all of the world's energy problems.
If a scientist proved cold-fusion exists, it would completely turn the tide of science as we know it.
I'm not sure if you understand a lot about science, but if any scientist provided a cold-fusion experiment that can be recreated, and peer-reviewed that proves cold fusion is possible, you would definitely know.
How??
Because EVERY newspaper would have cold fusion on their headline. It would be the most amazing breakthrough in all scientific history. It would be bigger than if scientists discovered a real fountain of youth or holy grail.
That's why I'm skeptical. Good post, though.
Well I ll keep it short. OWS has done a pretty good job at making its presence known so before we accidently stain our image the movement needs to evolve into something that focuses less on disrupting the daily lives of people and more on Information. I would suggest focusing less on street protest and more on educating people about how our system works and why it is broken. The general public knows Who we are by now it just seems to me they dont really understand what we are about. Educate them on why we are here. Holding a sign and blocking traffic on the subway will get peoples attention, but it is not always good attention. In fact this may inadvertently push potential supporters away that would otherwise agree with you. Remember the average american still gets all their information from CNN and fox. They dont really get the message all they see is a fringe group of protesters shiting on police cars. They need the truth. This movment has potential if it evolves accordingly. Once the information campaign has informed enough people of the real goals of the movement them return to the streets with 100x the people. The real 99%. I know how much you hate mainstream media and I do too, but you need to debunk their lies or the 99% will never know the truth.
I don't hate MSM.
You'd be surprised how many of the most reputable journalists are making our causes known.
As far as getting the information across, we may need to start proposals at the GAs that media representatives be elected. Jesse LaGreca has done well. But I think if we can find more people that can confidently convey our messages to CNN or Fox News and really put up a debate, if necessary, we may garner more positive attention. I'm getting sick and tired of conservative relatives and coworkers disparaging the protesters without having any clue what they're talking about. I think this may be the next step in OWS's evolution.
Good post.
we can have an effect if we go after specific corporations in a coordinated manner. If 10,000 people all bought put options on coca cola and then worked together to boycott coke, it would have and effect. These super groups are barely juggling all the accounting fraud they are engaged in and they don't always have the liquidity they would like to pretend they have. My other comment is that we have to live up to a moral and ethical standard, that the crooks in washington and on wall street do. otherwise we are no better than they are. if you want to force people who have money to pay you, take a good look at yourself and ask if you are giving anything to the people who have less than you. this may seem trite but i believe it is essential to the success of this movement. You lose the moral high ground if you are a hypocrite, and we know we are not going to take the police and the army on directly. we have to win over the people by demonstrating that a just and compassionate society is possible.
"we can have an effect if we go after specific corporations in a coordinated manner. If 10,000 people all bought put options on coca cola and then worked together to boycott coke, it would have and effect. "
Where did you get this from??
This sounds oddly similar to proposals I made over a month ago.
If you did get it from me, I'm flattered you deemed it worthy of repeating..
The only problem is that we need occupiers with a high aptitude for Statistics and Finance so we can find out how to allocate the money for maximum impact. Coca-Cola, being a high-cap dow component would take 100s of millions, even at their weakest point.(sorry to be debbie downer).
What we need first is a group that can archive and study options data (I'm willing to volunteer money) so we can determine when exactly to perform speculative attacks. For instance, would we better off buying before quarterly earnings calls, the day of, or immediately after?? It will take months b/c historical options data is not available for free, but if you find me volunteers, we can start "Operation Popper"(working title).
Good post.
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I hear plenty of words such as liberty, freedom, democracy, sustainability, equality, transparency, etc. But OWS itself resonates with anti, protest, anger, outrage, brutality, etc.
The frustration may be necessary to raise awareness about the corruption in our system however unless OWS begins to resonate much more with principles, expect many more conflicts over resolutions in the future.
I think many would agree we all want a post scarcity sustainable society with humane values at the forefront. Where disputes arise is in the how.
Promote sustainable energy technologies/projects, increase government transparency (required to remove money completely from politics), reform the economy, reform the legal system, continue emphasizing human rights, and of course reverse the affluenza.
Each of these tasks in itself have many perspectives, opinions, and requirements. All demand a massive following of people with either political, financial, legal, or technical knowledge, as well as the resources necessary to accomplish these things. Don't alienate these groups.
Resonate with principles much more than protest.
"Resonate with principles much more than protest."
This is actually a great idea.
My theory is that we haven't done enough Center-Left liberal soul-searching to find a narrative that will resonate.
This is one technique where conservatives have had the edge. Frequent talk about "Family Values" and extremely ambiguous talk about "freedom" seem to resonate.
What I've found in the past month is that all these narratives(almost verbatim) from the Iraq War memes to the current ones have a common origin. They all derive from a few individuals that were once Trotskyists, later became members of the New York Intellectuals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Intellectuals
and later became the founders of what's called the Neoconservative movement.(strange history)
Some of the New York Intellectuals became Right-Wing (Irving Kristol, Joshua Muravchik) and others became Center-Left(Daniel Bell, Irving Howe)..
Everything on Fox News is almost exact repeats of everything I read from Irving Kristol in the 40s.
I feel like if more of us could re-read the center-left intellectuals of that time, we may find some extremely catchy narratives that support our cause and will resonate with the public.
Good post.
"My theory is that we haven't done enough Center-Left liberal soul-searching to find a narrative that will resonate."
I think we have one, but it's actually a little conservative in that it idealizes the past. So, it's maybe a little tough to swallow for progressives: The 40s-70s were America's golden age, and our liberal age - the liberal consensus years. That's my baseline narrative anyway...
Here's one I came up with:
"Are you better off now than when Reagan first took office??"
because that's what he said about Carter.
But I was thinking we'd find some abstract phrases that can be used repeatedly.
For instance, I heard Paul Begala on CNN repeat the phrase "Tax cut fetish" and thought it sounds like something to repeat that will resonate.
I think I have a way of paraphrasing your point...
"Was life better before Glass Steagall was repealed??
Was life better before vast inequality??
Was life better before Reaganomics??
Lets return to those times!"
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You ask for ideas not predictions but the two are inseparable.
Look into the future and the past and you will see where we will be going.
1) Where are the rich actively buying: Agricultural land.
2) Where are investors parking their money? Commodities.
3) Governments in the name of austerity are likely to reduce welfare support. The great depression saw the rise of the State “work for food programs”
4) To quell growing unrest and unite a divided country: War has been the option of choice.
If I were an evil person I would also consider depopulation.
5) There has been a lot of attention surrounding flu pandemics. This has nicely instilled in us an expectancy that the big one could happen soon. Would our regimes go so far as to create a virus targeting the weak and old to prune the “unproductive members of society” and to keep us off the streets and meeting together.
If a focus is required then I suggest just 3 things.
We have to regain control of our lives. To me that means actively and forcefully occupying and reinstating our democratic processes- worldwide.
We have to act to ensure food security now. You need to be fit to resist.
Gather support for an end to war.
Campaign finance reform in the form of disclosure instead of limits, and floors instead of ceilings (i.e. publicly financed campaigns).
Shift from plurality voting that has the unintended side-effect of creating a two-party system and move to Proportional Representation and a multi-party system so that more diversity of ideas will find a voice in Congress. Inequality also tends to be lower in countries that use this. Firms will also no longer be able to lobby both sides, because there will be many sides. This will probably require other reforms, as multi-party and presidential systems usually aren't a good mix. Perhaps a semi-presidential system where the executive appointed by the legislature is in charge of economic policy and the directly elected executive is in charge of social policy.
Corporate governance reform so that firms are more democratic (make it easier for shareholders to propose board members). Get rid of corporate personhood and limit rights of firms to property rights and right of contract. Perhaps remove the liability shield so that managers are more accountable. I need to learn more about this issue though.
Remove government control of the money supply. Replace the Federal Reserve either with free banking or the gold standard. Wall Street bears a significant portion of the blame for the crisis, but so does the Federal Reserve, as it created too many dollars and this fed into the housing bubble.
"Campaign finance reform in the form of disclosure instead of limits, and floors instead of ceilings "
You know that "floors" would imply a minimum amount of campaign contributions instead of a maximum. Not to detract from your point.
Your 2nd idea sparked an idea in my head.
What if we developed an OWS campaign pledge. Or maybe one for politicians and one for supporters.
The politicians will sign a pledge full of our agenda items.
And the supporters will sign a pledge to vote in every god damn primary and general election.
So if a Democrat thinks they can still safely depend on us(based on common disdain of GOP), they'll be dead wrong because we'll just throw their asses out in the primary(which doesn't take much, because nobody votes in primaries).
Good post.
Thanks! By floors, I actually meant publicly financed campaigns. The language was from an excellent 2003 survey of the political science research, "Linking Knowledge and Action: Political Science and Campaign Finance Reform" by Thomas Mann.
Interesting idea, although I still think higher degree of political competition in a multi-party system would be a better way to make sure parties don't take their supporters for granted.
With Great Pleasure! The only problem is, the text is in Russian. On the other hand, the idea has been tested - in debate.
http://www.rb.ru/blog/peretyatkov/s=25f400e350a3a4a1ba931c511faa4da6&showentry=1534744
Я понимаю
you guys must seriously address any cases of sexual assault. dont be too proud to involve the police and report those crimes. it isnt betraying the movement its keeping people safe. it must be a safe environment for everyone!
These issues of safety for women are being addressed via women's committees. Almost every occupation has included their own women's committee for that explicit purpose.
The coming struggle is essentially a struggle to regain American ideals that have been subverted and stolen. As such, it is in main measure a struggle of attitudes. It will take time, and it will be difficult. The most powerful weapons to combat the sea of corporatist propaganda in which we all daily swim are facts and ideas.
America began with a declaration of independence. Perhaps OWS should begin with a declaration of principles. Not specific programs just yet, such as end the Fed, or enact campaign finance reform, or even something as obvious and likely desirable as universal health care, but rather much broader ideas. Off the top of my head –
It’s pretty late and I’m tired. And from what I’ve been reading, such obvious and simple statements are likely to be viewed by readers here as alternately alarming or mundane. But if you consider the implications of each simple declaration, you may realize they’re quite a bit more than that.
OWS has good minds. OWS has formed committees to accomplish specific tasks. I propose a committee to formulate a broad but comprehensive set of principles, of a simple nature, that could be used to both guide the movement and to stand in opposition to the corporatist propaganda.
I love the third one.
You know that the earliest corporations had to be incorporated by legislatures and their charters always needed to include language about their devotion and sole purpose being for the "public good" or to serve "public interest"??
Now all you need to do is register with the state.
I'm almost tempted to "register" my own corporation with a charter that includes "destroying the public good" and "fuck the public interest" or "to commit crimes via my corporation as an intermediary with its own personhood to take the heat off myself" just to see if they have any qualms in registering my charter.
Thank you.
I was unaware of that detail concerning the history of corporations. I found an older documentary titled The Corporation. While perhaps a little naïve, and not without flaws, I would still recommend it if you can find it.
And as happy a Thanksgiving as you can contrive!
I'm familiar with "The Corporation"..
Here's a list I posted up a while ago with my favorite documentaries, in order, along with links.
"Shock Doctrine" is a must see..
"Inside Job" is also a must see..
http://occupywallst.org/forum/documentaries-all-occupiers-must-see-with-links/
you guys must seriously address any cases of sexual assault. dont be too proud to involve the police and report those crimes. it isnt betraying the movement its keeping people safe. it must be a safe environment for everyone!
The best idea is to keep the movement simple and focus on the issues. I was recently watching a broadcast that said that Congress and Corporations have been able to "fool" Americans with propaganda and topics. We need to form a party and challenge these congressional seats. We have to realize that these districts are gerrymandered and favor certain parties over the others. the Republicans have also signed an oath saying that they will never raise income taxes under any scenario ( visit the Americans for Tax Reform if you are unfamiliar). Although there are many issues that need addressing with our current economy, we cannot depend on those in office to get the job done.
"We need to form a party and challenge these congressional seats. "
" the Republicans have also signed an oath saying that they will never raise income taxes under any scenario"
I am quite familiar with Grover Norquist's ridiculous pledge to destroy America.
I'll address both of these points.
One of my proposals is to construct 2 pledges of our own.
One being for politicians, with an OWS agenda list that they vow to pursue or face political consequences.
Another being for supporters of OWS to vote in EVERY election. Both general elections and PRIMARIES. Primary elections typically only win by a marginal amount because nobody attends. So if a Democrat thinks they can depend on our vote solely out of disdain for the GOP, they'll be wrong because we'll just throw their asses out for another Democrat more sympathetic to our views.
If this pledge got popular, we would grow powerful. Not only that, but Grover Norquist would cry himself to sleep every night knowing that his asinine pledge was the inspiration for ours.
Good post.
We know the system is a sham co-opted by the 1%. Why waste time taking their kabuki theater seriously? The game is rigged. Ignore those who ignore us... our so called "representatives". Another world IS possible. If there are no answers in humanities past or present ideologies and economic theories (surprise, surprise), let's start building new ones. That's what the General Assembly is working toward anyway isn't it?
Take a look at "A Proposal for a New Constitution for the Republic of Iceland". That's what the people of Iceland are doing right now. A growing and popular "build-it-yourself" government initiative (like OWS itself) would be a serious slap in the face of those that think they are our "leaders". And we need to have a new system ready before the current failed system completely collapses or revolution tears it down (e.g. Egypt). Another world IS possible.
Identify House districts and Senators who support the goals of OWS. Then go beyond helping then get elected. OWS'ers need to find ways to move to and get registered to vote in those districts where there is a chance to unseat those that work for the 1%. Perhaps just flood Boehner's and Cantor's districts with new voters and unseat them. Send a message that if you lead those who work for the top 1%... The rest of us will see to it you can't keep your seat. Make the leadership responsive to the voters... Not the $$$
"Perhaps just flood Boehner's and Cantor's districts with new voters and unseat them."
There's a problem with that plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boehner#Electoral_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Cantor#Electoral_history
If you notice, they intentionally nominate congressmen that are in extremely safe districts.
This could be incidental, though. It's an internal party vote, so they're going to tend towards embodying only views that the one party can agree upon.
You're idea is somewhat similar to my idea, though.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/please-post-your-best-ideas-for-owss-future-on-thi/#comment-411829
Good post.
I think we should focus on a single goal, at least for a little while. I think it should be a constitution amendment repealing corporate personhood as defined in Santa Clara County vs Southern Pacific Railroad. I feel this cause unites a lot of the disparate sentiments within OWS. I'm not saying lets not pursue other things. I'm just saying a hundred people cant fit through a door at once.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
My ideas.... I still cannot believe.... I finished this book, at almost exactly the same time as these protests started.... I still just can't believe...
I would LOVE to hear anyones opinion on my work...
Public sentiment, growth of the movement, and number of protesters are at an all time high. The movement is ripe for the demand and call to action phase especially after the UC Davis incident. I suggest this......Its time for the Occupy Wall Street Bill to go before Congress for a vote.
A. Define the Issues for the bill. Use language from failed bills that support the views of the 99 percent.
B. Outline the components of the Bill to the American People (the 99%)
C. Find A Congressman/ Congresswoman to sponsor the Bill to put before Congress for a vote.
Take this action and you will be able to show the country is behind you. Have people give their name, email address, highest education level, whether they are currently employed, and their profession/trade.
I like this suggestion..
But how do we make sure they listen to us??
I'm thinking we need to sign a pledge that we're all voting in every primary and general election..
Primary voters are the most powerful group because nobody takes the time.
If we ensure 10,000 will definitely vote in every primary, they can't ignore us.
By creating a Bill and getting a Congressman/woman to sponsor the Bill, it will automatically bring it before the House. A bill will give this movement a clearly defined and focused pieced of legislation presented by the people. The Bill should be written to gain mass support(petition) and represent the values and principles of the 99 percent. Citizens bringing forth legislative bills through a sponsor is done on the state level all the time, and the same principles apply at the federal level. They will listen because a bill/piece of proposed legislation is bringing the political fight from Zucotti Park to Washington. They need to know the academic brilliance of the 99 percent to fight them on their own turf.
How about this??
We draw more attention towards specific bills that have already been written and pledge to vote in every election (especially primaries) in an effort to throw out all that opposed it.
I emphasize primaries, because I think this movement is better off if we hijack a political party instead of tolerating their lame attempts to hijack us. Very few people vote in primaries, so the candidates only win by about 100 or so votes. No more will we vote against the Republicans. We can also vote against Democrats(especially mayors) that fail to meet our expectations.
As for legislation, perhaps a bill like this:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1489
to reinstate Glass Steagall. It was shelved months ago.
Then we'll track which politicians voted against it and vow to throw them out of office via the next primary.
I like your idea too, though.
Good post.
I agree.....I absolutely agree. I would like to see the movement stand behind the President's Americans Job Act, show support for Health Care Reform legislation and the Request reinstatement of the Glass Steagall Act as the key pieces of legislation to represent this movement. I would like to see a website outlined the key components of these three pieces of legislation with an online petition to gain the 99 percent support. Every movement has key legislation that resulted from it. This should be the pieces that defines this movement. How do we get the the movement to hear this idea?
"How do we get the the movement to hear this idea?"
I was thinking some of us from all over the country compile a list all these ideas(with the highest voted ones at top), we print them out in a survey format, and distribute them to people at the nearest occupation.
The reason I was thinking to print it out as a survey is because people can easily ignore a flyer. A survey demands active participation so whoever takes the survey will definitely have these ideas pass through their heads.
The pledges, we would design based on the results of the surveys because those that finished the surveys will likely be the most intellectual occupiers, and therefore if it contains their views it will tend to already have the support of the most influential occupiers.
Michael Moore posted on the Daily Kos a convention that he held with Occupiers check it out. Just search for Michael Moore. How do with get this idea to them?
I can't find it. What was the convention called??
http://michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/where-does-occupy-wall-street-go-here
Try this link.
At the rate unemployment and underemployment is growing with no end in sight I'm surprised more 'Tent Cities' or even yet another 'movement' such as something titled 'World Wide Camp Out-Strike Out' in response hasn't occurred. This could include low impact forms of housing camps on unused lands for the displaced unemployed and underemployed including Yurts and other similar structures along with the usual needs of residents and communities provided by charitable groups of people and companies so that the support is stepped up in terms of quality vs. what goverment programs here provide-heck, having used government sponsored Food Banks in both California and Nevada and then using the privately owned and sponsored food pantries I have to say the private ones offer much better quality food-whole food vs. canned and packaged even making unbleached whole flour artisan breads only a day old from local bakeries available..
"This could include low impact forms of housing camps on unused lands for the displaced unemployed and underemployed including Yurts and other similar structures "
Here's my only disagreement with what you're saying.
As far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't need to rebuild on unused land. This is the only country where squatting is highly illegal.
I'm seeing 2 problems:
Record amount of abandoned homes.
Record amount of homeless people.
In England, things are completely different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting_in_England
There is an ongoing conflict there, with pro-squatting organizations fighting for that right.
All over Europe, they've been banning the practice of squatting recently:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting
But I sincerely think that the fact that European countries had a somewhat tolerant policy towards it is why they are not nearly as bankrupt of culture as we are. More artists, intellectuals, musicians, come out of Countries at times when they have a tolerant policy on squatting.
That's my view on it.
Good post.
Thanks for sharing the info. I meant to add 'with full consent of the property owners of course.'
With so many in need of decent housing I don't know why more public and private agencies haven't attempted a cooperative agreement to allow for a conditional/barter for shelter residential occupation agreement involving property care at various levels: ie:If families have previous homeownership experience and know how to care for a home and yard on a regular basis the barter for shelter agreement could go something like this: conditional/barter tenant agrees to maintain property and surrounding lands to the following specifications attached subject to annual inspection and approval of owner. This could alleviate further decline in property values and especially neighborhood conditions. In addition, while the barter tenants are living there one or more adults in the household may also have the opportunity to retrain if they are career displaced and as those who are able eventually return to work as economies improve, perhaps there can also be a lease option to purchase made available by the property owner (who can be either a private individual or lending institution.)
Digressing, the mention of the Sovereign Citizen Movement and this article as a sub-link below my comments here caught my eye because back in 1997 a broker I worked with had a fairly affluent client who was a 'Sovereign Citizen' and gave the broker a bunch of literature on how someone legitimately becomes a 'Sovereign Citizen.' The books and paperwork made the rounds with a few of us in the office so the few of us who bothered with the materials know that someone can legally be a 'Sovereign Citizen' but it struck us as really 'fringe' to be driving around with no license plates on our car and flash a 'Sovereign Citizen' passport claiming no citizenship of ANY country. http://abcnews.go.com/US/georgia-battling-sovereign-citizens-squatting-foreclosed-homes/story?id=11445382
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement
I looked it up and it seems like just a fringe group that have no legal precedent. They just keep insisting they are not citizens under the assumption they can break federal laws.
As for squatting, I just think the banks have too much incentive to hold on to the property speculating that it may be worth something in the future. They simply neglect the property unless someone squats, and then the police get involved. It seems to me they should have a statute of limitations on how long they can hold the property without anyone living there or making any use of it. If they want to hire people to live there temporarily, alright. But if they just want to keep holding on to it, tough shit. "Use it or lose it" should be the law of land. If squatters are willing to bring it up to code, then they should get it. That's my take.
Good post.
'Couldn't agree more with your statement re: statute of limitations.
Check this out, squatting can eventually result in property ownership within the USA when done by the legally astute:
http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/95/95-6/squatter_nation.html
Squatter nation By Jerri Cook
..."Today's squatters stand in harsh contrast when we consider that they may cause the next tremor that energizes the stalled collapse, burying the banking and housing industries in the deep rubble of greed. Those who understand how to harness the motion of this growing tremor will be left not only unharmed in the final throes of the collapse, but all the better for it. Just ask Kenneth Robinson of Flower Mound, Texas.
Mr. Robinson has become somewhat of a folk hero in the squatter movement. He used the doctrine of adverse possession to acquire someone else's home. In order to be in adverse possession, the squatter must actually, openly, and notoriously posses the property, using it for its intended purpose and must put the owner on notice. It's important to understand that "adverse" doesn't mean combative or aggressive. It means that the squatter's claim to the property is adverse to the interest of the owner. Kenneth Robinson executed this legal strategy with text book perfection. " Note:Complete article is too long to fit here so cut and paste it for your own purposes in the event Countryside chooses to remove it and you by chance want to look at it later only to find it irretrievable....
My Idea: Focus on the Federal Reserve. Wall ST. is the symptom--the Federal Reserve is the Disease. Hollering at wooting with ambiguous statements like "Occupy Wall St." and "We are the 99%" only go so far. We have to get to the core of the problem; address the facilitator of out massive debt and overreaching banking system. This Banking Cartel is connected at every level of government and has gripped us by the balls...Henry Paulson, Timothy Geithner, Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke have all encouraged this style of Banking. And those are only a couple that have it out for us. So again, it is my humble opinion that have a real discussion about Monetary Policy in America and maybe decide that....no, maybe we don't need to pay a private bank interest on our own money and tell the FED to take a hike and enforce Article I Sec. 8 of the Constitution that states that only "congress shall coin money...and regulate the value thereof". Peace and LIberty! - Brennan
You actually have a chance for change in Nov 2012, don't let it pass you by. Have OWS supported candidates run for office, just like the Tea Party has. Allow criticism of all sides of the debate, even w/in your own movement. Automatically censoring/changing a person's name is mean-spirited and is NOT the high ground, rather the lowest. You need to be able to discuss the platforms of policy-makers, the president and others.
I would suggest that this forum stops censoring the debate by being unable to mention the President's or other candidate's platforms in 2012. We need to join the debate, not remove ourselves from it.
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Oppose all Chinese slave made imports
American hypocrites disregard the terrible lives more than 100,000,000 slaves who work every day with no time off, and only a life of misery to supply Americans with cheaper supplies than they would be if American factories were rebuilt and all those products were made by Americans who earned a lower middle class salary and decent benefits.
If people elected me to represent them in congress I would cause a daily commotion until America followed the constitution that abolished slavery in 1865. Our constitution didn't say to move the slaves to China so American hypocrites couldn't see the slaves but bought the crap at a slightly lower price. That goes double for all Christians who don't follow the teaching of the messiah. No legitimate Christian would take advantage of people forced into slavery and then have the nerve to claim that their lives were better.
Instead American Christians are sucking the blood of the Chinese slaves to get a slightly lower price. That doesn't mean to charge a tariff on those imports. Our constitution forbids importing that stuff, it doesn't allow charging tariffs on it.
That would force the multinationals to spend their $2 trillion cash on financing new factories here or they will have no market because they will have no supplies to sell.
What if instead, we revised our free trade policies so that countries like China can either abide by fair labor standards or face tariffs to compensate for the anti-competitive practice of enslaving their own people.
I feel that this policy would spread democracy and human rights way quicker than invading Middle Eastern countries.
You are a pathetic whining liberal with no back bone, lydon.
Seems like either your account was hijacked by a troll or you were a troll all along.
Not really interested in knowing which.
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I think we all need to join the KTC.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/#comment-405734
The Revolution starts here!
Would it be rude to recommend you change your slogan to something other than "Join the Clan"???
The Revolution has a theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here! No one can silence the Revolution!
Methinks Stuart was fired by Toshiba. I've been round and round about this with him. His facts are wrong, and he doesn't mind making them up if needed to argue his case. Fired and sitting at home with nothing to do but seek revenge. There IS no "clan," it's just Stuart and his grudge.
Great platform, "OWS is against Toshiba!" Heck, they're not even an American company!
ROFL!!
I was wondering why he picked Toshiba but just didn't even care to ask him. Of all the companies. Not BP?? Not Goldman Sachs?? Not Wal-Mart?? Lets direct all our energies at Toshiba??
Exactly. He used to even list the specific street address of the Toshiba office he was fired from, and he advocated we all gather there to protest their injustices.
I think you are a jackass!
The Revolution has a theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here! No one can silence the Revolution!
LOL ! I think we should be against Toyota ! Do you realize how many Amercians they killed with their defective cars and all the pollution their cars spew into the atmosphere ?
Stand with OWS ! Stop Toyota's crimes !
I'm off to make a theme song now.
http://fairewinds.com/content/fukushima-and-its-impact-upon-westinghouse-toshiba-designed-ap1000-atomic-power-plant
What do you mean? We're the KTC (Kill Toshiba Clan), we can't change. We are committed to the Destruction of Toshiba through non-violent means. We even have a theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/#comment-405734
The Revolutions starts here!
you misspelled 'we're'
Thank you!
The Revolution has a theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here! No one can silence the Revolution!
you are a spam bot
I want you to go to this post. I want you to speak truth to power!. Say it once, say it twice. Say it loud. Say it proud. I'm down with the KTC. The Revolution starts here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here! No one can silence the Revolution! :P
you are a spam bot
Sticks and stones. Sticks and stones invertedpencil. And would you please take time to go to my post and post that comment? I'll love you for it.
this is why we cant have nice things.
Toshiba is not nice!
The revolution starts here!
your personal grudge is misplaced, as are all the other whiners trying to focus attention on their own side show.
which is why we cant have nice things.
The Revolution has a theme song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!