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Forum Post: ??????Our monitary system ?????? Is OWS going to miss this elephant in the room ? Just as the public has done for four centuries

Posted 1 year ago on June 13, 2012, 9:16 a.m. EST by know1 (210)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I Don't think I'm seeing much here, on forum, about it. How it works, ect. Is it a subjuct of much interest in the movment. Can anybody help me out with any insights, as to( why I'm not seeing much, if any, discussion on it). It's a weird subjuct and hard to get your head around and probably not much information avalable on. But it's the basis, a disguised form of feudilism, and of vital importance to understand and change. This subject is not taught in school,only a smoke screen. I think it should be a primary goal to make sure we understand this basis, no matter how difficult that task may be.

66 Comments

66 Comments


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[-] 2 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 1 year ago

A way to end the current financial system:

http://www.naturalmoney.org/naturalmoneybomb.html

Theory of the Money of the Natural Economic Order:

http://www.naturalmoney.org/full-theory.html

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

From: Sen. Sanders and Boxer and Democracy for America

Dan -

Can you believe that, only four years after Wall Street and the Big Banks brought our economy to its knees, many of those same bank CEOs are helping to shape policy at the Federal Reserve?

Talk about the fox guarding the henhouse. These executives are serving as directors of the very same Federal Reserve that bailed them out in 2008 -- and is supposed to regulate them today.

It's unbelievable, and we've got to do everything we can to end these outrageous conflicts of interest.

Please join us, and our friends at Democracy for America, to become a citizen co-sponsor of the Federal Reserve Independence Act -- and help us end these huge conflicts of interest at the Fed!

The General Accounting Office has detailed instance after instance of top executives of financial institutions and corporations who could have used their influence as Federal Reserve directors to financially benefit their firms -- including board members who were affiliated with banks and companies that received near-zero-interest emergency loans from the Federal Reserve during the financial crisis.

The American people deserve a Federal Reserve that is truly independent from the financial institutions it supervises and oversees. That's why our Federal Reserve Independence Act would:

-Prohibit banking executives or employees of companies regulated by the Fed from serving on the Federal Reserve’s board of directors;

-Prohibit the banking industry from choosing any members of the Federal Reserve's board of directors; and

-Prohibit Fed employees or board members from owning stock or investing in companies that the Fed regulates, supervises or oversees with absolutely no exceptions.

Americans deserve a Federal Reserve that works for them, not just the top one percent. Congress needs to pass the Federal Reserve Independence Act -- and you can help us do it.

Please stand with us to end these outrageous conflicts of interest and reform the Federal Reserve by becoming a citizen co-sponsor of the Federal Reserve Independence Act today!

It is time for change at the Fed -- real change. Thank you for joining us and helping to make that change happen.

Sincerely,

Bernie Sanders and Barbara Boxer

U.S. Senators

[-] 1 points by tofree (5) 1 year ago

Monitary system? for example they take signification lane 2 or something like this and make "Chewbacca" in signification lane "schuhplattler". or "jew plattler" and "make" him. they take the "iron maiden" east version to "answer" which looks for her "apfelschimmel" . would be for the "lice". it is also Horse power "engine" 4 HP. just the half of the 34Hp. and so we are bankrupt. these persons are may very good educated. But they can never work in their job because they "made" them as this. means all make the "jew plattler". it is the same with langarde they play "cheese spicker" and still some self made rocket flew. can never work in her job. USA has no king in the usa. they just have banks which make "her man" which are jew and are so called "koi animals" . others which are nazis make her man as "Her man" for sure these never make "her man" . Banks normally have to forbid something which is even all entertainment. these all make her man as "her man" and rob on the banks thru construct. these other always react on the made her man as "her man" or something like this. man this is big nonsense what these do.

[-] 1 points by tofree (5) 1 year ago

they sit in front of him let him do the work and know how to drive all into bankrupt. the scenario must be like this. their made "chewbacca". they are nazism which not really means that these are germans. but all nazis make her man as "her man".

[-] 1 points by tofree (5) 1 year ago

the "lice" are also a "iron maiden" for which they do this. racist and so on it seems so. but normally they call another person as black their "lice". every made person which made in the way her man made as "her man" is part of the driving all into bankrupt. they all as these her man made as "her man" just got money because they do this or that . means killed this one or that they sell these as the person "who would be" or would "turn around". and entertainment also just can make movies or things if they do such bullshit selling "her man". making "Her man" means to forbid things or this selling "her man". this selling "Her man" is also just nazism too.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

geo, what part of( Private citizens creating our money) r u not willing or able to hear some portion of OUR money, mabey a (very) large percent, is created, and interest collected on, by( private citizens). That is the point of this post I know they dont stress that , in school ,or where ever your learning but thats the point I put to u about 5 times,and u didnt deny only avoided fraction reserve lending is 100 percent ( privately created money ) And much of the interest collected by the fed, (which is in some regards, for some reason, privately owned by banks) may go to ( private hands )

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

I'm asking for help

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Our fiat currency system is widely misunderstood. Many classically trained economists do not understand it. A lot of ideas that drag over from the gold back system get applied to our current system. We haven't been on gold since 1971. As a result bad policy decisions are made. The way debts and deficits are viewed is extremely important and a lot of misinformation is given out.

I have found that the MMT rules explain how our currency should actually operate. Here are two simple articles to explain it. There is much more deeper material should you need it:

http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5749331/who-s-afraid-of-the-big-bad-national-debt

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/05/playing-monopolis-monopoly-an-inquiry-into-why-we-are-making-ourselves-so-miserable.html

Also don't sucked into conspiracy theories regarding the Federal Reserve.

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

thnk u geo, but also what im asking is ; is there much interest here in this subject. Aparrently not ! and before i clic your links will u talk me a minite. DO PRIVATE CITIZENS CREATE AND COLLECT INTEREST ON ALL OUR MONEY. CAN THEY CREATE BOOMS AND BUSTS AT WILL

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

The actions of any Central Bank can indeed create booms and busts through interest rate changes and other money management techniques.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'DO PRIVATE CITIZENS CREATE AND COLLECT INTEREST ON ALL OUR MONEY.'

In the big picture yes, all our money gets invested one way or another by private citizens, through stocks, bonds, used as investment captial, or even just kept in standard bank accounts, and interest is collected on all of it.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

geo, who creates our money

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

The US Treasury's Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP). From there it is deposited in the Federal Reserve.

Read this FAQ:

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

why does the government pay interest, on (loans) from that newly created money, and who receives the interest on that newly created money.and also, what percent of newly created money is from the banks themselves through fractional reserve lending (acually creating), to the puplic, and governments

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

why does the government pay interest, on (loans) from that newly created money, and who receives the interest on that newly created money.

Money is created from government bonds and treasury offerings. These bonds offer the buyer interest rates to pay for their cash influx. The Federal Reserve can also buy these bonds in the open market and has done so.

The Federal Reserve also lends to banks called "discount window lending", to address problems they may have in obtaining funding. Banks within the Federal Reserve system lend money back forth amongst each other with interest.

also, what percent of newly created money is from the banks themselves through fractional reserve lending (acually creating),

Only the Federal Government can create money, real currency, cash. Fractional reserve banking creates debt, no real cash gets put in the system.

As to the tracking of the debt that fractional reserve banking generates, several ratios of the M0, M1, and M2 measures are used for broad indicators. The Federal Reserve generates more detailed reports when needed.

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

thnks,, Well debt is the same as cash if u ask your bank to cash it . Any concerns on you part that these private banks get to create all that money and collect interest on it

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Lots of concerns. I'm not a fan of fractional reserve banking, subprime lending, credit cards, or any other usury banking scheme.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

how much interest go's to private people from money they got to create out of thin air

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

you're awesome geo u want to nationalize the banks, but you kinda seem to be saying our monitary system is almost legitimate

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Yes I want to nationalize banks. Currency is just a medium of exchange. In if itself it has no real value, and shouldn't because money is not wealth. There are no natural laws pertaining to currency, its a man made idea.... so yes currency of any type is legitimate as long as the rules for the specific currency type are followed.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

how much interest would u guess is flowing into private hands from newly created money, and why doesnt the government just create the money itself

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

We are stuck between the old and the new. Legally the government (treasury) should be able to print money with no ties to bond sales, but it can't. The bond market is a large one and the economic problems of just shutting it down are considerable. Many people have their retirement and investment portfolios tied to bond sales.... companies as well.

I would like to see a revamping of the Federal Reserve system. If we are to be based on a fiat currency we should remove all elements that keep us from being so.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

for instance, at the end of WW2 when the gov (owed) 260,000,000,000.00 thats 260 billion for the war, who did (and still do) they owe it to, I'm sure most of that was newly created money, given the fact that the federal debt in 1940 was 40 billion. Some of that 260 billion was borrowed from the public by selling bonds, but I'm sure a very small percent. I'm sure at the end of the deprssion, people just didnt have 260 billion lying around waiting to buy war bonds

[-] 3 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

The UK in 2006 paid off its last debt to the US for war lending.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4757181.stm

At the end of World War II, January 3, 1946, the last proceeds from the Victory War Bond campaign were deposited into the U.S. Treasury. More than 85 million Americans — half the population — purchased bonds totaling $185.7 billion.

[-] 3 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

interest is paid on every dollar in existance, who the f is collecting that.

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

the federal reserve supposedly pays back to the federal gov everything after expences, it pays back about 30 or 40 billion, thats 4%of a trillion.The federal debt is 15 trillion. Then all the newly created money loaned to the puplic. WHY DO BANKS HAVE THE RIGHT to create money

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

if the government created it and infuzed it into the system by paying its expences, we would probably not need to pay tax

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

enough of this artificial scarcity, people do not need to be poor

any where in the world,

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Taxes in a fiat system do not support federal spending. They are used to control the volume of money in the system.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago
[-] 1 points by shooz (26603) 1 year ago

That's an excellent question, and one that I've never received a clear answer to.

Along with the question of....what are they going to do if we refuse to pay it back?

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

geo, what part of( Private citizens creating our money) r u not willing or able to hear

some portion of OUR money, mabey a (very) large percent, is created, and interest collected on, by( private citizens). That is the point of this post

I know they dont stress that , in school ,or where ever your learning

but thats the point I put to u about 5 times,and u didnt deny only avoided

fraction reserve lending is 100 percent ( privately created money )

And much of the interest collected by the fed, (which is in some regards, for some reason, privately owned by banks) may go to ( private hands )

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

What part of debt creation through fractional reserve banking does not equal cash creation do you not understand?

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

the whole thing, Sir,

If I ( barrow) money, (money they just made out of thin air), I can buy with it, RIGHT

Now you re bullshiting, u must be an economics professor

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

If you borrow money you gain money, but money is debited out of an account to give it to you. Debt is created to give you credit.

The proof that no cash is created in this scheme occurs when there is a run on the banks and people try to pull out their savings which should be there.... its not and the banks fold (that money was given out in loans). No new money has been created.

Now in a free market, that would be the end of the story. But because of certain laws... the Federal Reserve may step in and resupply that bank to keep it from crashing. Now you have the Federal Government creating real cash to give to the bank, to cover that debt.... which brings us back to only the Federal government can create real cash.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

why does the federal government pay interest on money ( it borrows) created by the fed

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Give me an example, I don't completely understand the question.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

ok how much of our federal debt, would u guess, came from newly created $

and why would the gov pay interest on whatever portion was newly created

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Since 2008? Probably in the neighborhood of $5 Trillion dollars... to cover debt that the banks generated when the crash hit. Thats covering debt from derivatives as well. Our original problem economically was a 'credit crunch' -translation: debt crunch. Since then it has snowballed to high unemployment, business collapse, and lack of consumer demand.

Remember that retail and commercial banks offer only one real product, and that is debt. They make their money from the interest on debt offerings which they call 'credit'.

Now the interest portion is a legal problem. Money raised by the Federal government is generated by the sale of bonds and T-bills, those are interest bearing instruments.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

thank u geo,I need to take a break, I really appreciate this, resume later!

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Yeah me too, I have some stuff to do, back tonight.

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Its all a big clown circle, with plenty of ways to skin the cat.

Bottom line- its a clown show, and cat (us) are getting skinned.

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

cute, u edited your comment, r u having fun

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

No.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

OK, you re in Tampa, Get out and enjoy this beautiful day, r u near the beach, I bet the waters great

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

please delete nasty comment, thank u

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

very helpful ,thank u , hchc

Also , could u please delete that nasty comment

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

would someone report hchc for this nasty comment so rudly thrown into this conversation that hchc was not in, before or after the nasty comment

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Remember if only 10% of bank reserves are required to be kept from savings accounts, that means 90% of the money in savings accounts can be used to loan money..... thats 90% worth of debt created.

If everybody came in the same day and demanded their savings the bank would fold because of debt, that money is no longer there but loaned out. Sure you can now spend your money from the bank loan, but thats someone elses savings that was given to you to spend. No new money was created.

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

The original savings account the bank used to give you the loan you asked for.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Great speech - hey? I am out of PM's for today so I had to reply here.


geo said 0 minutes ago at June 13, 2012, 9:46 p.m. EST (delete)

Thanks. I'll pass it on.

[-] 2 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

As good as this one, which needs to go viral as well:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/myth-of-perpetual-growth-is-killing-america-everyt/

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (33128) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Yeah - I sent it out on twitter. This is the stuff that needs real circulation.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

what does it mean that the stock of the federal reserve is privately owned

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

Private banks that are part of the Federal Reserve system own non-voting shares of stock for their buy in. The receive a dividend on their shares if I remember right.

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

I just read the first of MMT, thats exactly what I'm saying, we have all the money we want, We need to think in terms of resourses and what we want to acomplish

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

our debt is our money supply

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

yes, I said that right, our debt is our money supply... If all the loans were paid off there would be no money

[-] 2 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

the government needs to create our money, debt free, not the banks, who create our money, out of thin air, then lend it to us, or the government, and charge interest, its to hard to belive,

[-] 1 points by geo (2638) from Concord, NC 1 year ago

The banks need to stop fractional reserve banking. That practice does not create real money.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

we pay interests to bank owners for that money supply

[Deleted]

[-] 1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

No feed back from anybody ?? It's simple enough, Who creates our F-ing money??? not the gov!! than WHO

[-] -1 points by know1 (210) 1 year ago

geo's full of it