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Forum Post: Fundamentals of Capitalism, Part Two:

Posted 2 years ago on April 30, 2012, 10:48 a.m. EST by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Here is a link to part one if you need to catch up:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/how-about-a-few-fundamentals-about-capitalism/

Is there ever an acceptable reason to restrict the use of money? Say for the purchase of drugs, or sex? OK, how about kidneys? It seems we have already accepted the ideal that the power of money should have limits, now the question becomes what should those limits be?

I feel there is widespread belief that money should not be allowed to purchase government, I would like to co-op those feelings and suggest that money should not be allowed to buy healthcare or education for the same reasons we don’t allow it to buy children. Because it cheapens them to allow people to just buy it, it should go who need/deserve it.

60 Comments

60 Comments


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[-] 3 points by FriendlyObserverB (1871) 2 years ago

Education in reality is earned by those with the ability to learn. Access to that education should be available to all whom desire to learn.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I pretty much agree with you, I think if people earned their way in instead of buying their way in, we would have the deluxe educational system in the world like we do the militarily now.

Time and again where the rich cannot simply buy the best for themselves they insure that America has the best or biggest, i.e. militarily, prisons, DAs for drugs and theft not bank fraud those can afford lawyers and make you go to court, most DAs prefer the 95% that can’t afford to pay for the defense or take the chance.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Thank you again for these links, both are good.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Place is so busy people miss some I guess.

[-] 3 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

have faith in other posters

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

it's all good, there are many good people here, many more to come I hope, even after so many years I still find new ways to see things

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Maybe the trolls are having to regroup? They've spent most of their little lives with their noses in the air having people politely nod and smile and skitter away. They've always thought the poor idolized them and revered them and thought they were smarter, natural born leadership material. Its got to be hard to find out that people are not that impressed. I vote we all run around in our daily lives letting them know they are not more human than anyone else! Money is being misused horribly. Children are bought with it, usually from the CIA but still, they are being bought and sold. Same with drugs. Basing a society on greed and corruption isn't a good idea. Just because the really rich people nod at the trolls and pee in their general direction doesn't mean they are really going up in the world the way they plan to by all this butt-licking. Its just sad.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Damn your good.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Their new thing is to talk about how "there is no end to good things" meaning that if you start doing good things with tax money, well there's just no end to that. OK I say let's talk a bit about what we do and don't let money do.

[-] 2 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

The fact is rich people don't work hard. Period. Ever. They don't make themselves into a success. If you are a doctor and you sewed someone up today, you my friend are not rich. Independently Wealthy means never needing an alarm clock. If you are working hard you are paid the very least in this society. Cleaners of port-a-potties work hard, migrant workers work hard, people who clean hotel rooms work hard. CEO's fire people, cut benefits, hire temps, they don't break a sweat doing it and they are psychopaths so they don't loose any sleep over it either. These little butt-licking trolls got a gig typing their little fingers to bone for chump change to try promote the myth of upward mobility and work ethics. HA! No one believes that crap anymore. They didn't get paid for hard work, they got paid for selling their souls. Every whore I've ever known has had more integrity.

[-] 1 points by ClearTarget (216) 2 years ago

Damn, you don't hold back! You said everything that I would say about the 1%ers.

"These little butt-licking trolls got a gig typing their little fingers to bone for chump change to try promote the myth of upward mobility and work ethics. HA! No one believes that crap anymore."

The most hard hitting truth is in that statement. This society is now no more than circle jerking amongst the 1%ers.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

whores offer something of value in trade....

Being born at the finish line and paying people to spray sweat on'em.

[-] 0 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

They sell a service. Just try to get service from a politician or his rich backers! Politicians on the other hand sell their souls along with the trolls.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I can't believe the first person that said "we have to give them lower rates on dividends and capital gains so they will invest" wasn't laughed out of the room, like they're going to go to work for a living, give me a break.

[-] 1 points by JadedGem (895) 2 years ago

Boot-licking really isn't work either. It starts in elementary school with some kids majoring in it all threw school. How they manage to drop them a peanut and convince them they have made it in the world is beyond me. They have social status granted by who??? We so need to stop playing that game. These little piss-ants are running around saying they got somewhere on merit. Please. There are more of them, the lapdogs hoping the rich will throw them a bone. Its pathetic. I've enjoyed telling them what happens to their food when they go in a restaurant and be a jerk to the workers, I really have! I'm gonna laugh like hell when stocks fall, eat their 401ks and they are scrounging on social security and their kids stick them a home because their bladder control issues are out of hand. Yep, they've really made it in the world! The really wealthy are screwing everyone over and none more so than the lapdogs because when its all said and done they are going straight to hell in hand-basket along with their masters.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

if we keep talking about it maybe things will change, you never know, thanks for your thoughts though....there was a great HBO doc on the super silver spoons, but I think the guy who made it has bought all the rights, can't find it anywhere

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Me I'm old and slow. That's my excuse and I'm stickin to it. I really like JadedGem's comment.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

don't seem you've been missing many lately...

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Whatup(?) frf - you dragged a pretty old comment back out of the darkness - were you just surfing the archives?

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

yep, wandered off to a mostly con board the ones on here have run away, was looking for some posts to set them off with, it seems we have have wandered into the weeds a bit around here too, hardly anyone talks about actually raising taxes, I think the think tanks have done a hell of job in general, I am fearful nothing will be done and in a few years things will be bad, lots of old people in the streets dying but by then I think the top 2 million families will be living behind their walls and won't really care....

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Hope you had a great May day!!

[-] 0 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I did and I did not. I was with my Step Dad today and so was unable to follow the events of the day as they happened. I hope you had a great day.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

The spring is building, got to watch last part of the frontline, this thing is/was bad.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep - things are bad. When you watch the 2nd half of money power wallstreet make note of Geitners involvement in negotiations keeping in mind that the fed secretly loaned out 7.7 trillion dollars all around the world.

Lots of information in this Doc but I believe that Inside job was still better.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Yeah looks like Geitner was all about protecting the bankers, I wish somebody would explain to me why all the rich guys are so senitive that everybody has to kiss their asses so much?

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The fed is up to their eye balls in supporting the practices that caused the economic meltdown. They were bailing out the banks prior to the shit hitting the fan. Prior to any government approved/authorized bailout action.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Kugere was on last word last night, he says we really screwed up this because we should be spending into this thing, cutting when things are good. I saw Coburn on Jon's show he admits we need to raise taxes, what kills me is nobody will ask these Republicans to sign a pledge that if we fix it again like we did in 93 what keeps them from coming along and cutting taxes as soon as things are balance none of them will promise they won't as a matter of fact most still are talking about tax cutting.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The People need to stand up and take possession of their democratic process just like they are doing in Wisconsin. Kick their butt out of office when they stop supporting the people. Any and all rogue politician.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I hope you're right about Wisconsin, Walker is spending a lot of money.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I think it is time for money politics to fail. I would love for Wisconsin to be the 1st in many.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I think it's time money was taken down a peg or so in general, it's just a score card, don't make it all personal, the more money buys, government, health care ect... the more like kings the COBs are (Children of Billionaires)

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Too funny - Tiffanie's?


[-] 1 points by factsrfun (4086) 2 minutes ago

After a point people run out of things to buy, so they buy the government. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Only the little people like Newt run out of money there the Koch bros close the store to shop. Maybe the Super PACs will show the "I think I'm rich" crowd what it means to be like the rest of us.

I'm sure you heard 196 people have given 80% of the money to the Super PACs, 196 Lords and Ladys I wonder who will be King?

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

the more like kings the COBs are (Children of Billionaires)

Only because for some odd reason they are treated as such by the population of a country that was created in defiance of a king.

Things will be much better for all when the wealthy have to live by the same rules as the rest of us.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

having to work 40 hours to survive with limited choice of time off sounds like a nightmare

Elections should be National and State Holidays

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

After a point people run out of things to buy, so they buy the government.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Would be nice for it to become common knowledge.


[-] 1 points by factsrfun (4121) 7 minutes ago

We know a few alread Sheldon, Ayries? anyway I'll take a look I bet somebody is keeping track of them. Bill Maher, but I kinda like him,I am sure a list of all would be reveling though. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

on it today, promise, post later

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Post their names and their business affiliations - would likely open a few eyes.


[-] 1 points by factsrfun (4121) 17 minutes ago

Only the little people like Newt run out of money there the Koch bros close the store to shop. Maybe the Super PACs will show the "I think I'm rich" crowd what it means to be like the rest of us.

I'm sure you heard 196 people have given 80% of the money to the Super PACs, 196 Lords and Ladys I wonder who will be King? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

We know a few alread Sheldon, Ayries? anyway I'll take a look I bet somebody is keeping track of them. Bill Maher, but I kinda like him,I am sure a list of all would be reveling though.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

Hope your Step Dad is doing well.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Thank you. It is complicated. He had a massive stroke 2 years ago now. He has made outstanding recovery in many ways but can not be left without some one to keep him on track. Now it looks like my mom needs a valve transplant and that is going to complicate their lives quite a bit.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I see someone stopped by to down vote your dad's condition

Health issues are tough, but in some ways they remind us how close we truly are, god bless

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Shows how sick some can be to down vote a conversation that has nothing to do with them. God Bless every good person who is truly fighting for a better world for ALL.

[-] -1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

it's a battle ground of sorts I guess, but people come here they read stuff and the right can't stop that, not yet, and people are out there taking to the streets and the right can't stop that, they will try to feed us some sleeping pills but I got lots of coffee, and I'm thinking you do too

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Love that fresh - hot - vitamin - C. Yes people will stop in here out of curiosity to see what it is all about - hence the foaming at the mouth trolls. I will have an "honest" discussion with anyone. But trolls are no one. Yes we will need to keep on our toes to defend humanity. The word is spreading.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

as we get closer to threatening their power they will get frantic but the GOP representing the 1% are likely to be exposed fully for who they stand for, as they are exposed they will be replaced it is possible the debt can be used to correct things if we make them pay the bill they ran up

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

It will be helpful to do a Bernie Madoff style restitution on the criminals.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

the way I figure it the 1% have been sending the clowns to Washington that ran up this debt they should step up now and pay it, personal reasonibility and all

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Don't see why anyone should have a problem with that.


[-] 1 points by factsrfun (4086) 1 hour ago

I am calling for 99% inheritance tax after the first 5 million till the debt is paid in full!!! ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I had a thing up about moving 15 T from the savings to the credit card and girlfriday said cool just take it, and I thought, nan, balance the budget, create a flex tax on incomes over $250,000 to cover any unexpected expenses, and apply a 99% tax over 5 million on the daddy's gift, yeah some people would only be millionaires who thought they would be billionaires but times are tough daddy should of paid attention and not sent those guys to Washington.

[-] 3 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Yep.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I am calling for 99% inheritance tax after the first 5 million till the debt is paid in full!!!

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

The 30% rule would be a very good start and they should be able to not only recognize the fairness but also realize that they will still remain wealthy.


[-] 1 points by factsrfun (4121) 8 minutes ago

I figure it's a starting point, I might be presuded to agree to a 2 or 3 hunderd percent increase in the amount they were allowed to keep say up to 2 or 3%. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

It is a good rule for income tax, I would like to see income tax done away with and just tax property so people are taxed according to what they have not on what they make, some people work their whole lives and get hardly anything for it, seems they have given enough without taking taxes from them too.

[-] 2 points by DKAtoday (28477) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

I am all in favor of seeking restitution from the criminals that caused the meltdown. I am in favor of having the wealthy pay a proper proportionate share to support the government/society. Proportionate payment might be much worse for them then the 30% Buffet rule.


[-] 1 points by factsrfun (4121) 40 minutes ago

I had a thing up about moving 15 T from the savings to the credit card and girlfriday said cool just take it, and I thought, nan, balance the budget, create a flex tax on incomes over $250,000 to cover any unexpected expenses, and apply a 99% tax over 5 million on the daddy's gift, yeah some people would only be millionaires who thought they would be billionaires but times are tough daddy should of paid attention and not sent those guys to Washington. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

I figure it's a starting point, I might be presuded to agree to a 2 or 3 hunderd percent increase in the amount they were allowed to keep say up to 2 or 3%.

[-] -1 points by cooperbl (-88) 2 years ago

obama & co have added more to the debt in 3 1/2 years than ALL the other presidents before him combined.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (6973) from Phoenix, AZ 2 years ago

That could be, have you seen this?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/

Place was a mess when he came it would not as bad if he had not extented the Bush tax cuts and things will start to get better when they do, but we will need much more taxes that after Bush, he really screwed things up in big way. The amount taxes will be going up keeps getting bigger by the day.