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Forum Post: Occupy Wall Street Demands Are Abstract

Posted 8 years ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 11:49 p.m. EST by LosHombres (31)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Well, I for one agree with the demands, but just to show up everyday with a set of abstract demands seem a waste of time to me. Abstract platform calling on an end to greed just too abstract for me. Nice but abstract. What are folks going to do, take another street? Maybe block another bridge? Which by the way, I have no problem with; but it's not tied to any specific demands. There are a lot of support out there, but not everyone can show up to a demo.

Why not put forward a specific set of demands. Specific talks on how to achieve these demands. I will give an example. Bank on America one of the worst offenders; but everybody acting as if nothing can be done about their high fees. What about calling on people to take their money out of Bank of America and put in credit unions, etc. Make an example out of them. Put forward a specific set of demands.

If you hate Wall Street that much, what about putting a platform forward calling on people not to spend their money this Christmas unless certain demands are met. And if that's too drastic for some people, call on everybody to only spend their money with small businesses the holiday's. That's something anybody can do and they don't even need to come to meetings or carry a signs to participate, just think about how they are going to spend their dollar. Call on the Black Community and Latino Community to spend their Christmas dollars in their neighborhoods; if the goods aren't there, spend it with another small business. Things like that seem a little more concrete to me.

Call on the masses to show up Black Friday for a demo instead of shopping.

You make abstract demands, you leave the ball in the hands of the people screwing you. Make more specific demands that people can participate in.

Everyone is up in arms, but no one seem to be listing anything more concrete.

91 Comments

91 Comments


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[-] 1 points by Ninja (1) 8 years ago

guys, here are a few ideas that WILL change everything !.

  1. institute a "consumption" tax instead of income tax. - which means the more you consume the more you pay taxes - you want to have 6 cars and burn gas like UPS thats fine you'll pay your ass in taxes for that luxury - want to have 3 houses, one for summer , 2 for the rest of the year, GREAT ! you'll pay additional tax for that as well.... you get my point.

  2. greed will always be a problem with humans unless you cap it. put a limit on how much money a person can have, lets say 10 Million a year ( should be enough ) everything on top of that goes back to society. or give someone else the chance of doing business.

  3. regulate gas prices the same as Milk.

cant think of more stuff right now but i'll complete this later

[-] 1 points by Keepitsimple (110) 8 years ago

1 We do have a consumption tax, it is called sales tax and property tax. I think there used to be a luxury tax but I don't fit in that category I don't know if there is one anymore.

[-] 1 points by FuManchu (619) 8 years ago

2 is plain old mob rule. People have the right to keep what they earn by fair means. The problem with 2 is who decides what the limit is? Why limit it at all? I see that as a result of jealousy more than anything else. Fair taxes can ensure everyone contributes to society. 1 is good. I didnt know milk price was regulated.

[-] 1 points by BringBackGlassSteagallAct (67) 8 years ago

here's our Goal: I feel the only way we can get back on safe financial footing again is to close the Enron Loophole for oil speculators and bring back The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which prevented the current banking and insurance scams/loopholes. After all, it worked great until late 90's when Congress threw it out. Since then, like prior to 1933, we are experiencing what our country went though then, total Wall Street greed with no penalties, its all legal now...Thanks to the architects of our new system in 1999, President Clinton and Senator Gramm. Cheers to all that are involved! Jim

Why we need Glass-Steagall to be reinstated:

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/

Why are oil prices high?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-kExdTgNZA&feature=channel

[-] 1 points by sam17101 (1) 8 years ago

I have a recomendation for demands... Please forgive me if they seem absurd:

1: Bank loan payments be frozen for the next 5 years and NO interest be allowed to accumliate on said loans 2: Companies NOT get bailed out if they fail. Its the risk of free enterprise! 3: Intrest on loans be cut down to a maximum of 2% period. Credit started to help people survive the depression not make money... learn from the past when it worked right! 4: Tax money no longer be devoted to the science budget... I am for science, but put it on hold we cant affrod the spending right now! 5: Require those who can work to take any job available if unemployed. They can always upgrade when better jobs are free and available. Require companies hire LEGAL CITIZENS before illegials and make it a requirement that citizenship be verified before employment. 6: Student loans have a 5-10 year period before they must be paid back to allow graduates a chance to build a foundation of a life before they have to pay back loans.

Again, if any of this seems absurd, sorry. It does seem we are living in absurd times.

[-] 1 points by Bridgebury (1) 8 years ago

Number 4 is particularly absurd. We can NOT afford to NOT spend money on science. Scientific advances are what's going to help us the most. Science is important. And anyway, science isn't what's using up the governments budget - it's the military. Get the military to stop using our money to fight wars and a lot of budget problems could be solved.

[-] 1 points by BringBackGlassSteagallAct (67) 8 years ago

Anyway, I have an idea for you to help re-regulate Wall Street, how about arranging a million people march on the Hill to bring back the Glass-Steagall Act and to Close the Enron Loophole once and for all? Considering what's happening in Ohio and Wisconsin, and the Middle East, it seems like a timely thing to do. The public needs to be educated; I feel once this gets out, they will respond accordingly. How about Michael Greenberger as your key note speaker...he was great on your show the other night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdtTGYQBMU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNp0y0SjOkY&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-kExdTgNZA&feature=channel

[-] 1 points by boredperson (225) 8 years ago

Only a small part of the Glass-Steagall Act was abolished (which was more a nominal issue than anything) and had little to no effect on anything (why people believe it had anything to do with the recession has always been strikingly unfounded). And the issue is deregulation, not re-regulation. We need to get the government OUT of Wall Street (and out of everywhere for that matter).

[-] 1 points by BringBackGlassSteagallAct (67) 8 years ago

i se your point, but, to create an even financial playing field again, which I feel this movement is all really about as Glass and Steagall did in 1933, is a great lesson, to learn from past mistakes.

[-] 1 points by Deadkip (1) 8 years ago

Take away corporate "personhood" under the 14th amendment. This is where corporations get the their LEAGAL political power, until your reverse SANTA CLARA V. SOUTH PACIFIC RAILROAD (1886), everything you do is useless because what ever change you make will be overturned because corporations are considered a "natural person" and are Ted under the bill of rights..... So a multi- million dollar business has the same rights as a human being but the power of a god... If you don't know what "corporate personhood" is then look it up.. RIGHT NOW.. go to Wikipedia NOW B4 YOU REPLY TO ME, OPEN A NEW TAB, I will not respond to anyone who dose not know anything about the subject b4 giving their opinion. Don't feel bad if you don't know something, just look it up and then you know all about it. That's how you learn, admit that you have know clue then find out.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

Deadkip, you have simplistic understanding for more complex problems. So what about the Federal Reserve? What about the IMF, World Bank. The main problem is how society is organized. As if we reverse SANTA CLARA V. SOUTH PACIFIC RAILROAD going to be the final solution! Tell it to the Chinese, Russians and Europeans, you think they care about the 14th amendment. You do realize we live in a global economy? At least I'm not sitting around pretending what I'm offering is some kind of final solution, it's just a practical tactic on way to a larger goal. Now next time don't post on my page like you don't know how to behave. At least have a little class; besides you're another coward that like to drop hot potatoes and run.

[-] 1 points by boredperson (225) 8 years ago

If you think the problem is Capitalism...then you don't know what Capitalism is. Although, the occupiers of Wall Street tend to be socialist idiots, so I can see why you don't know what Capitalism is.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

boredperson, stop wasting my time. I know the difference between capitalism, socialism and communism; the five stages of human development, etc. But you're obviously a psychic, so no sense in me arguing with you.

[-] 1 points by DimitarNaydenov (3) 8 years ago

If all these demands are fulfilled, the United States will become like North Korea, except a North Korea with open borders and a huge gulag (its territory with people forced to unemployment and denied the pursuit of happiness) rather than several small ones.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

I can see you're about dropping hot potatoes and running. At least defend what you post. This is a democracy no matter how misguided I personally feel your statements are.

[-] 1 points by Bernie (117) 8 years ago
[-] 1 points by McKinnley (53) 8 years ago

What’s YOUR occupation?!!!

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

Not sure what that has to do with the argument. I'm a old head now, but I spent my teenage and most my adult years working in some of the worst neighborhoods of Philly. I haven't changed my mind in 20 something years, so this isn't about fattening my pocket. Now, the question is, what are you going to do when you see most the people that's protesting now sell out for cushy jobs and white picket fence. There will come a time when you're tempted by all the riches of society, especially if you have skills. Trust me, you'll need more than just being mad now to stay true to the game.

[-] 1 points by McKinnley (53) 8 years ago
  1. a person's usual or principal work or business, especially as a means of earning a living; vocation: Her occupation was dentistry.

  2. any activity in which a person is engaged.

  3. possession, settlement, or use of land or property.

  4. the act of occupying.

  5. the state of being occupied.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

??????

[-] 1 points by FUCKTHENWO (280) from RIVERDALE, MD 8 years ago

These puppets think they can fuck my life in the name of profit.

End all offensive, profiteering wars.

End the Fed.

Get these fucking puppets out of my government.

Fuck Bank of America

Fuck Citigroup

Fuck JPMorgan Chase

Fuck Wells Fargo

Fuck Goldman Sachs

Fuck Morgan Stanley

Fuck Lockheed Martin

Fuck Boeing

Fuck Northrup Grumman

Fuck General Dynamics

Fuck Raytheon

Fuck Halliburton

Fuck United Technologies

Get these fucking puppets out of my government.

Viva la Resistance!

[-] 1 points by boredperson (225) 8 years ago

Its a cute list...but the funny thing is that there is nothing inherently malevolent about any of these corporations. If anything, that's the problem with this whole movement; it's utterly misguided. Instead of confronting the root of the problem (the government itself), we blame the banks/corporations that benefit from our fascist, socialist, corporatist government. Your list can be easily summated as: "Fuck the government."

[-] 1 points by FUCKTHENWO (280) from RIVERDALE, MD 8 years ago

truth. fuck the federal reserve is the current statement

[-] 1 points by boredperson (225) 8 years ago

Indeed, I suppose we have to start somewhere reasonable.

[-] 1 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 8 years ago

Although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers yourselves. Consequently, I have posted the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:

http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

Join

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

if you want to support a Presidential Candidate Committee at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago
[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

Wow....yeah, so your Christmas shopping at small stores. Now that is really going to get B of A, now isn't it. Those aren't even related, lol.

And why do you say B of A is one of the worst offenders? All of you people just say stuff like that, with nothing to show for it. Big is bad to you people, and that makes no sense. You are free to shop or bank anywhere you want, but to say what you did, makes no sense. Besides, when you boycott one store, and if enough of you bird brains do that, don't you think it will be a clerk or someone like that who will get laid off? Now that is some Christmas present you will give to that person. Good going, huh.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

Are you serious? Most major companies make 1/4 or more of their income at the 4th quarter. And telling the masses not to support major companies and support the little man/woman a minor thing, according to you. Calling on the people to make an example out of companies abusing them, like Bank of America is a minor thing? You obviously don't know what the bankers and corporations are worried about. Marching around Wall Street with not even a list of names of individuals to be prosecuted for abuses at best just a minor inconvenience for Wall Street investors. They'll step over you on their way to get Starbucks coffee. Mad people with no specific demands is just mad people with no specific demands.

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

You said that "Most major companies make 1/4 or more of their income at the 4th quarter". I assume you meant "in" the 4th quarter. But anyway, since the 4th quarter is, oh, say about 1/4 of the year, wouldn't you expect that to be true?

You still haven't explained how doing your Christmas shopping at a local store will "get" B of A. I'm not defending B of A, but tell me, how have they abused you? And who should be prosecuted for abuses? And what laws were broken with those abuses? You have to have a law that has been broken before you can prosecute, not just be mad at them. So please tell me....Who broke what laws that should lead to their prosecution?

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

It's more like 33% - 50% of their income is generated in the 4th quarter; but even 25% is still dangerous. Again, I think you're overlooking the point of the argument, which is how can we define some specific issues on our way to a larger goal.

Well, we're against corporate greed! Points to corporate greed, but we need to define some present day examples of corporate greed and make an example out of them. The B of A issue is an example, not my pet project. I don't care if it's something else as long as there is a direct call to action.

Don't spend your money on Christmas until x, y, z demands are met, seems more concrete to me. I actually said people shouldn't spend their money Christmas; but some people are afraid of this idea, so the next best idea is to spend your money with small business. Do I really need to go into why not spending your money on Christmas (by Christmas I mean the 4th quarter) is a dangerous call for the system? Same as don't go shopping Black Friday and show up for a demo, do I really need to explain why this concept is dangerous? Even if only 10% of the population listen.

Right now it seems that there are general statements being made (goals) and no specific ways to achieve these goals. Judging by the response to this post, some agree that there are no specific actions. The common theme seems to be we need to let this grow before making specific demands. A few people have specific things, but no process set up as yet to say these are good or bad ideas.

Well I'm against corporate greed? Don't really give people anything to do except march with a sigh that says STOP CORPORATE GREED. Well, what about Halliburton and Blackwater. Who were the key decision makers at that point of the War, one of them being Dick Cheney who sat on the board of Halliburton.

Basically define a few key points Goals; and steps to achieve these key points, objectives. As of now, I'm being told we need to let the movement grow before making specific demands, objectives.

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

Everyone here talks about B of A. I have asked over and over and over and NO ONE has said anything specific...just greedy ol B of A. Why can't anyone say specifically what their beef is with B of A? I bet not one in a hundred of this group can, with any accuracy at all, explain why they so pissed at B of A. Yet, so many scream about B of A. And please don't reference the debit card fee. That is such a hoax of an issue. If you want to complain about that, don't complain to B of A, complain directly to Dick Durbin. He is the one that authored the amendment to the finance reform legislation last year that drastically cut how much the banks can charge retailers for the swipes of the debit cards. It was plainly stated at the time that if congress reduced and capped the amount of revenue received from retailers, then the banks would have to go the only other place that could, and that is to the cardholders. That revenue had to be replaced somehow. It was known back then that debit card fees would need to be implemented. So go bitch to Dick Durbin, not B of A on that one.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

What you seem to not understand that politicians are only mouthpiece for the ones that run the country, the B of A and the rest of them. But again, the core of my argument isn't about protesting against B of A. I don't agree with you that credit card, debit card fees isn't and issue. But lets get pass this B of A thing, I would be all in if AWL made an example out of Dick Durbin. See, I'm not stuck on one point; but lets stop asking people to just show up with signs and no specific action to take to achieve set goals.

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

To be honest, I can't really tell. To say Cheney was a sop for Halliburton because he was its former CEO and a former board member is to say Reagan was a sop for the Screen Actors Guild. If you think Cheney engineered a war to help a former employer in which he no longer owned stock, then there isn't much to say. An argument like that is simply a non starter. No one would engineer a war for that purpose. It's a straw man from the beginning. If you want lower debit card fees, as I said, go to Dick Durbin who put a cap on how much banks can charge the retailers. Everytime we artificially constrain how businesses operate, there are unintended results. But in that instance, we knew what it was going to be. I'm not saying we should have no regs, but we have be very careful with them. If credit card fees are too high, then don't use them. That's pretty simple to me.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

KnowledgeableFellow, are you saying they wouldn't start a war to to make profits? At best, the war was about fighting terrorism and profits is just accidental to the war. Is this what you're saying? The war was about terrorism and nothing to do with Arab oil and profiteering. Come on, you can't be serious! I'm not an actor and know nothing about the Screen Actor's Guild, so I can't comment. But again, you're repeating points that I agree with you on. I'm asking the question again, which only a few people have honestly answered. What are the specific call to action? If it is going after Dick Durbin, so be it. See there might be 5 different roads to the same house. What road is OWS asking people to take? Seems most people already come to the conclusion they are waiting for a crowd to gather first, and there are no specific call to action except demonstrations on a few general things. Which is left up to individuals to determine since there are no leaders.

[-] 1 points by milessmiles (10) 8 years ago

Not demand(s), but demand: Fix the way elections are financed.

It's the only way we can have a functioning democracy where the majority of people's demands will be met. Also, I think the only thing that people from all walks of life can agree on is that a multi-millionaire's opinion isn't worth more their own.

Too many of the OWS movement have been focused on using it as a platform for their fringe ideology to see that all people want to do is feel they have a voice in this rat-race, instead of always having it be drowned out by those who can simply buy the any influence they require.

Ironically, the most feasible way to bring any policy change, and therefore a change in the realm of campaign finance reform, is to form some sort of special interest group that most likely includes lobbyists and uses its power to influence elections in such a way to move its agenda forward.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

Well this is a movement without leaders and no fixed ideology, which means you actually capitulate to the elements that are more organized within OWM. As I said below, I don't agree with this notion of a leaderless movement with no set of specific demands. I'm not trying to be a dick by saying this, but even Nazi Party members and right wing parties can support a lot of ideas put forward, so where do you draw the line? This obviously can't be a movement about everybody.

[-] 1 points by davisstraub (52) 8 years ago

Indict Alex Mozilo, Joseph Cassano, and Lloyd Blankfein.

[-] 1 points by davisstraub (52) 8 years ago

Against "Wall Street excesses?" Isn't that like calling torture, "enhance interrogation methods?" How about Wall Street crooks and fraudsters who headed up criminal enterprises?

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

Agreed, wish I could give you more, but you said it best.

[-] 1 points by Gylliwyn (22) 8 years ago

I once believed in our government, at least for the forty years when it worked well after World War II. It was seemingly fair and balanced with the wealthy paying their equal share of taxes, regulations in place with parity to financing, unions protecting the middle class, etc. Then, the 70's came along with the unraveling.

Some are so discouraged, especially our youth, they naively think we can function as a society without government, but we can't! Democracy would cease to exist; chaos were reign instead and the corporations would anoint a dictator. What we need is a good functioning government again, and we need it with the next election; one that holds steadfast with altruistic morals and a bold, intelligent leader who would be willing to stand up to the corporations and all their minions presently in government, one who is forthright by the people and for the people, one who refuses to be bought, but instead, is supported by a myriad of votes from the 99% of the people being manipulated and discarded.

Has anyone looked closely at Dylan Ratigan? Yes, he is currently a commentator with MSNBC, but before that he worked as the Global Managing Editor for Corporate Finance at Bloomberg News. Ratigan has what it takes to turn this country around, at least from a public and financial standpoint. Maybe the success of his "Get Money Out" campaign is a propitious sign of what could be his next step. Perhaps he could be that willful individual whose calling has come. There truly is power in numbers. He definitely has the passion, intelligence and he's certainly gaining in name recognition............ with a backing. Think about it!

I would send a website of Mr. Ratigan passionately and emphatically explaining what is truly going on with the economy in our country, but you would probably neglect to open it because you don't know me and may suspect a virus. I understand. But go to Youtube and google this : Dylan Ratigan's Epic Rant on the International Banking Cartel and Political Corruption. Watch it to the end because he has the beginning of a great financial solution. Then go to : getmoneyout.com and sign it!! Get your friends to sign it, too! He's brilliant! Everybody involved with Occupy Wall Street should be educated even with this one video!! He has nailed it!!!!

A new party: The Social Conscience Party (definition: an attitude of sensitivity toward and sense of responsibility regarding injustice and problems in society).

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

Well, tell that to the African Americans; things never been right, fair or balance. This is the typical Eurocentric outlook on the world that seem to permeate even this movement. Things were okay for me at some point, so fuck the African Americans and Japanese people? What about MLK statement, injustice for one is injustice for all, I'm going off the top so may not be an exact quote.

[-] 1 points by one (11) 8 years ago

I think many people in the Occupation have signed the Get Money Out petition. I know I have and I have encouraged others to do so also. I personally think that the change we need is more than that and more than creating a new party. I hope you read my statement (down below) about the Occupation being non-partisan. Because I like Dylan's show, but he doesn't seem to understand (yet) that the movement is about changing the conversation from the old right-left....Please consider visiting an Occupation near you and talking to various people.

[-] 1 points by Gylliwyn (22) 8 years ago

Maybe you could benefit by watching Mr. Ratigan's epic rant (above). It will truly give you some insight in a logical, understandable way of what is happening with the financial ascention of corporations, politicians and the plummeting of our economy. Ratigan calls out both parties; he is non-partisian on this issue. And you may catch the end more than once to see a solution to the banking demise with the greed. And yes, Ratigan understands the financial world better than most politicians. He's quite brilliant. It's worth watching; I promise.

[-] 1 points by Gylliwyn (22) 8 years ago

I get that you want this movement to be about being against corporate greed and Wall St. excesses but you have NO DEMANDS?!?!! Huh!? And you exclaim that "it is the responsibility of the government to debate the various ideas and work together and compromise to come up with solutions that will help the people." Huh?!! Just how old are you anyway? And if you're waiting for that to happen, isn't that supposed to be why you're out there in the first place; because it's not! I'm trying to offer solutions and I'm looking to someone who has the brains and the passion to pull our country out of the greed that is choking our democracy. We can't expect the present government to make that happen because they are all bought out by the corporations. If you don't make demands, you have no cause! And if you have no cause, you have no clue!!

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

They been talking about this kind of thing in places like Greece for while, but never gained mass appeal because a few progressives wouldn't share with the masses. But I stopped by the one in Philly and plan on stopping by and participating. To be honest, lots of sincere people there; but just look like they were freezing their ass off to me. In the long run, people going to need something concrete. Believe me, the weather start dipping to 20 degrees, you going to need more than naked outrage.

[-] 0 points by thoreau42 (595) 8 years ago

You realize that it was only about 15 years between World War 2 and the 70's, not 40, right?

[-] 1 points by Gylliwyn (22) 8 years ago

World War 2 ended in 1945. I did mention that it "began" unraveling in the '70's. Apparently you not only don't know your history, but you're nitpicking about nothing. Go read a book!

[-] 1 points by thoreau42 (595) 8 years ago

True, I suck at math. 25 years.

[-] 1 points by Gylliwyn (22) 8 years ago

And after you read that book, go to youtube and watch Dylan Ratigan's epic rant. You'll learn something that just may give you a cause, a demand and a clue....................... but it won't help your math, or mine!!

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

Ratigan is so far off base, he isn't even funny.

[-] 1 points by Gylliwyn (22) 8 years ago

He's not supposed to be funny, you idiot, he's there to educate the masses and fight for the middle class. But apparently, that's why you don't know jack about him. So, maybe your nom de guerre is an oxymoron. Go look it up!

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

Well, if he isn't supposed to be funny, he sure isn't serious, is he?

[-] 1 points by Gylliwyn (22) 8 years ago

I'm done with you! I need intelligent stimulation and feedback and you ain't it!

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

Good. you twerp.

[-] 1 points by thoreau42 (595) 8 years ago

I've already got a cause, a demand, and a clue. I don't need no new political party. http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html

But you're right, about the math. I went to art school, that's my excuse.

[-] 1 points by vegaseller (25) 8 years ago

there is no "abstract demand"

Its just the whining brain farts of liberal arts major who realized they are 100k in debt with no employable skills

[-] 1 points by occupymymind (8) 8 years ago

the movement is here to stay. it is not going anywhere

there is no need to hurry. let it grows

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

"not going anywhere" is pretty accurate

[-] 1 points by one (11) 8 years ago

The Occupation is non-partisan. It is perfectly fine to be conservative and be Occupying - because conservatives are part of the 99%. It is also fine to be liberal, or independent and be Occupying. And the Occupation even welcomes those who have never voted. We are all the 99% We are changing the conversation from the old political arguments. We are against corporate greed and Wall St. excesses. That is what unites us. To date there have been no demands. It is quite unlikely that a group made up of conservatives, moderates, and liberals would agree on any policy. Quite frankly, it is not our responsibility to make demands - It is the responsibility of the government to debate the various ideas and work together and compromise to come up with solutions that will help the people. When people say our government is broken, this is what they are talking about...the government seems to be focused on solutions that only help the corporations and the rich. I encourage you to join an Occupation and make your voice heard.

[-] 1 points by KnowledgeableFellow (471) 8 years ago

Would you quit lying about the 99%? I am not in the 1%, but you do NOT represent me. So stop lying about it and stop including me in your idiocy. You guys are so much smaller than your swelled head imagine.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

You know it don't take nothing but to say we call on people to take their money out of Bank of America and don't spend your money with these capitalists on Christmas. I'm not even saying it has to be these specific set of demands. Why should they even listen to you. Monday, these bankers and brokers will go to work, at best this movement is a inconvenience to them. But I guess the old lady getting kicked out her house today or next week need to wait till you guys get it together.

[-] 1 points by fantastic (74) from Boston, MA 8 years ago

But the wrong set of demands is an even more depressing defeat/failure

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

So we're not calling out anybody in this movement, just generalizing? Forget the Christmas idea, which by the way I disagree with you on cause corporations make 1/4 or more of their money 4th quarter--basically Christmas shoppers. Forget calling out Bank of America for abusing Americans, lets not make any demands on them concerning high credit card fees, high fees for debit card. Specifically, how do we democratically punish abusers with the power we possess at this moment, the same thing blacks did in the 60's with the bus strike. We obviously can't arrest them cause they own the police. So how can we punish them with the power we possess this moment.? That poor old lady getting kicked out her house right now; that man and woman with no job and about to lose his/her home need direct action. Long terms goals such as ending war, stopping corporate greed are good things, but en route to long term goals, what can we do now to punish abusers and take on some things that will have an immediate impact. Does not even need to be the things I suggested, there are more issues than time to tackle. What I'm talking about is direct action, not just marching with abstract demands. I'm starting to believe this movement has no intention of doing concrete things.

[-] 1 points by fantastic (74) from Boston, MA 8 years ago

Exactly my point, questions like that are ones which will bring out the right set of answers, to get to does correct answers we must debate and vote then act. Right now no one wants to debate or vote, everyone wants to ask and act.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

I already joined and pointing out the weakness. A movement with no concrete demands is opportunists by nature and bound to fail.

[-] 1 points by one (11) 8 years ago

You have a voice. You are part of the 99%. I encourage you to visit an Occupation and talk to people.

I actually don't bank at a Big Bank because I think they are bad for America. I moved my money actually before the crash. I also don't shop in certain stores that I think are bad for America. And I listened with respect to a couple of people who spoke and made their voices heard at my local Occupation, who happen to make their homes in the public park where we held a meeting.

Come. Join the Occupation. Make your voice heard.

[-] 1 points by fantastic (74) from Boston, MA 8 years ago

way to early for demands let the movement grow

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

Come on, you can't actually believe that. This is madness bound to failure. The people I'm fighting know what they are about, but I'm going to willy nilly.

[-] 1 points by fantastic (74) from Boston, MA 8 years ago

Ok but the people who we are fighting against are already organized and we are just beginning to organize. Giving out a list of demands now will stop the addition of new supporters. Now new supports will have to agree with the demands or disagree. A list of demands is like a list of requirements. Right now the Occupy Wall Street movement is a declaration to the opposition WE THE PEOPLE STAND HERE!!! Gain supporters, grow in numbers, strengthen the voice, and then make a statement. Only then will a true message be heard whether they want to listen or not.

[-] 1 points by LosHombres (31) 8 years ago

I thought this is what we're doing. I mean who determines when the movement is the right size to put forth demands? I'm part of WE THE PEOPLE, and I'm letting my voice be heard. Now if others believe the same thing, they will voice their opinion as well. I've got to say though, I don't like what I'm hearing so far. A leaderless movement, a movement with no specific demands. Maybe this will be the first movement in all of human history to be leaderless and no set of specific demands to succeed.

[-] 2 points by fantastic (74) from Boston, MA 8 years ago

Truth is no one will determine when the movement has become large enough, yet the larger the movement grows the stronger a single common idea becomes, by means of popular vote. Right now we need to come up with an system which allows for an organized,convenient, simple, and an effective method of voting on critical ideas.

[-] 1 points by Mitkit45 (11) 8 years ago

Give it some time

[-] 0 points by Permanushka (24) from Elk Creek, CA 8 years ago

Here's a Platform and Petition of Grievances

A Call for the THIRD CONTINENTAL CONGRESS on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

[-] 1 points by one (11) 8 years ago

This list of demands has not been approved by the GA for the Occupation. While I personally may agree with one or more of the demands, it has no validity until approved by ALL the GAs.