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Forum Post: NEW ANNOUNCEMENT: Occupy Revolution network launches

Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 7, 2011, 3:45 p.m. EST by precipice (220)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Occupy Revolution has launched a community website for Occupy. Meet other occupiers and discuss strategies and demands! Join us at

http://www.occupyr.com/

161 Comments

161 Comments


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[-] 20 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

I've been on message boards for 20 years, before .com, usenet. Global message board. The best strategy is to stay on one message board. The government and elite work to divide us. On the web is where we can all be in one place.------

All we need to do is develop the ability to recognize a massive cognitive infiltration and ALSO recognize something to unify around that can gain the AUTHORITY to see demands met.-------

Literally nothing else works.

[-] 11 points by JadedGem (895) 11 years ago

There needs to be one site. You can't escape trolls. Ban them and they make a new account, go to a library, reboot the dish, whatever. They haven't left the comfort of their keyboard though. They aren't shooting people. I suppose younger people are more approval seeking by nature, the younger ones can be more sensitive. I think after OWS is over people need to take back the forums. You don't win if you don't stand up for yourself. You don't win if you run away. You win when some random person breezes threw sees something you wrote and goes "Yeah!" You win when people would rather sit with you at a lunch than Mr. Troll. All you have to do is show up and be yourself and you win!

[-] 4 points by hahaha (-41) 11 years ago

Simple! Everybody ready? Be yourselves!

Wow, I feel it! I think I'm winning!

[-] 1 points by lisa (425) 11 years ago

It should be two sites, two organizations, different budgets, projects. OWS should act locally at it's base in NYC, Global Revolution should take on international projects such as the Egyptian Election Monitoring project. OWS NYC cannot be spread out in all directions and be effective. It needs to be separate. Global Revolution should be an international body that responds, trains and helps those in other countries.

[-] 1 points by occupywallstreetbabycom (12) 11 years ago

OWS cannot spread itself at all.. Global revolution would be great. But at any rate have started a site called www.OccupiersUnite.org so we can do affirmative actions like sit ins on the banks in all banks by 50 to 100 people in each bank...

[-] 0 points by nattyraney (15) 10 years ago

check out http://jinnwe.com two guys from Tahrir put it together to be a secure place to coordinate different cities. going worldwide now

good blogging and a social network too. feels like a game to me lol

[-] 0 points by michaelfinko (71) 11 years ago

excellent point, agree totally.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

JadedGem, you've totally got it, except the part of unity around AUTHORITY, which is an active thing. For some reason people are socially afraid of being joiners in something that is just logical. They need a sensation, a gimmick, an image associated with it. That is something we'll need to get over. For example, the simple logic of using the letters, "art5" after a username identifies you at first glance as an American who has unconditional support and defense of the constitution. Trolls won't do that, people see this and realize that something is very wrong when that many people refuse to identify with the constitution.--

I think before OWS is over because then the street action publicizes this forum and more people see.

[-] 2 points by michaelfinko (71) 11 years ago

This issue is 100% solved by people using their full legal names for everything.

However there can be a choice depending on if voting or just commenting.

An extremely important part for actual voting rights in any Direct Democracy will absolutely need to be: users must vote openly under full legal names so everyone can see (i.e. on the internet), just like current Congress people are required to do. Any programmer can write an ap to quickly count the results.

If just discussions, then can be done anonymously, but, even here, it it would be HIGHLY in the interests of the citizens (i.e. 99%) to use their full legal name - to establish a history of comments anyone can read. Then message boards can be divided into two (or more) tiers where the top level (people under full legal names) will end up having the most attention/authority, with trolls relegated to the lower levels. If full legal names for voting on the internet are not used, then, 100% guaranteed, over time it will be hi-jacked. NO system, even Open Source, can ever be 100% secure. But if there is NOTHING to steal, it will be extremely difficult to hi-jack.

br, Michael

[-] -2 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

michaelfinko wrote: This issue is 100% solved by people using their full legal names for everything.END----

I agree that this is important, but does not signify a capacity for unity around a concept or perspective, for example, defense of the constitution with our first and last right, article 5, or anything else reasonably agreed for that matter.

At this level of our efforts to refine self determination, the most important thing we can establish is a unified front of citizens defending the constitution with full understanding of it for use in their action.

The direct democracy is an excellent idea. From my perspective and practice, discussion is a compulsion and opinion is inherent but not usually, specifically recorded. Here is a concept for a message board that combines a method of polling that has the flexibility to evaluate and grade members contributions reasonbly.

http://algoxy.com/poly/poll_to_post.html

The "tiers" you describe might be more appropriately controlled by opinion in some ways than identity. To support that I would use this logic, "We will never have an approving opinion of the concepts and opinions of traitors if we know the full story they can tell." Reason is a powerful thing, and when a group can confirm amongst themselves that they have the true and full story as far as they can determine, then their opinion is probably as good as can be found at that moment. Traitors will not bring the full story and that will be exposed. Identity doen't matter, conceptually, at that point.

The critical thing is accountability to reason in the group. If a person with an unpopular opinion has facts, and the reason supports the fact, but the group cannot embrace the opinion with theirs, then more work needs to be done. The concept of "poll to post" works with that first.

[-] 2 points by michaelfinko (71) 11 years ago

I'll read over the poll concept in more detail, but at first glance, seems pretty straight forward and looks like a solution to presenting more organized, on-topic discussions that could go a long way to keeping forward momentum (i.e. progress).

When voting, i.e. shaping and affecting the lives of others, identity matters greatly. I'm thinking from the very practical aspect of how and Open Source Direct Democracy would (not could) be attacked/hi-jacked/infiltrated by big money, i.e. some large corporation paying a PR company to vote a million times in their favor (if done anonymously). Because you have to assume from the beginning, they (and others in power) aren't just going to roll over and play dead.

[-] 2 points by occupywallstreetbabycom (12) 11 years ago

do you know people that can program a voting system like that. I have created www.OccupiersUnite.org for something like that. I need something like that because I am not sure how to do it.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Yes, identity matters, so much in fact that a voiceprint and telephonics are the best. One becomes informed by various sources on the web, then calls a voting compiler, provides identity data by voice which is compared dynamically to record for a match in all audio aspects as well as data.------

Where we return to the "informed opinion" and the fact that academia has all but abandoned us in some ways, or experts just are not stepping forward. Herein is the value of the "poll to post" because controversy is only quelled by resolution, and when people see it happening reasonably, with verified and relevant facts, they support the logic and are often educated in one move which makes the outcome stand out where more can find a specific knowledge that has seen considerable deliberation and focus with approval.----

The desire to see ones contribution be real, is converted from bumping posts to only responding to polls with a quick note to a point, UNLESS there is a relevant and real contribution to be made by engaging more. With this size of posts reduces with more opinion showing which is what moves the thread to the top not the chronology of posts. The same thing happens with posts in the thread under the OP unless opinion defeats the OP wherein the majority selection becomes its own, evolved thread.

[-] 2 points by michaelfinko (71) 11 years ago

I somewhat agree, and there definitely is a need to move more relevant posts higher, as that is a reflection that they carry more weight, affect more people, are topics of interest, etc.

However, I will reiterate, a million times if necessary, all ACTUAL voting, whether on a thread, post, or for a change in a law, MUST ONLY be done under FULL LEGAL NAMES (registered under a .gov site running OS software) with a full voting history and comments history for everyone to see.

ANY time you DISCONNECT the name from the vote (no matter the technology, voice, eye print, whatever) you have a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE. Once they are disconnected, that information can and WILL be MANIPULATED. It's just TOO HUGE of a TARGET, a MAGNET for corrupt individuals. We have this NOW in the form of 535 senators and representatives who lie to us and vote as the lobbyists say. It is an IMPOSSIBLE GOAL to say you will create a 100% secure system - it will never exist. What you can have is 100% Transparency, and there is nothing to steal (and WHEN the system does get hacked-into / taken down, you simply re-install the backup version, i.e. restore point).

In this case, a Direct Democracy would be an EQUAL FAILURE that the current system is because lobbyists would simply -

A) either pay a PR company (as I listed in previous post) B) spread out the money to millions of people rather than one senator (which, from one side seems ok as more money would go to more citizens directly, but really, is not the answer)

The ONLY answer is to continue down the path of citizens getting comfortable with openness (i.e. Facebook, LinkedIn, Skype, ICQ, etc.) because it is VERY MUCH in the INTERESTS of the AVERAGE CITIZEN and society as a whole, while definitely NOT in the INTERESTS of the few currently in charge, the corrupt, the crooks, etc.

br, Michael

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

I have to agree, that all ACTUAL voting in the official arena must be done with legal identity.

However, without refined, accurate opinion to vote with its not going to matter. That opinion must exist before the vote, for the vote to be real. Right now, the citizens are so misinformed and under informed as to the true situations, or nature of candidates, voting hardly matters.

[-] 1 points by michaelfinko (71) 11 years ago

Sure, all the pre-voting info could be done anonymously, it would definitely have value, people can make up their own minds if the argument is fair, balanced and presenting pros and cons. It just would have significantly MORE value if done under a real name, with a real history of comments, voting, etc. in that certain people could become experts in the field making it easier to turn to them. This could also be done anonymously, just that when a face a real to the person is behind it, citizens will have much more belief in the credibility of that person.

It's really a moot point we are discussing as I'm sure there will be many people willing to step forward to establish their reputations under full legal names as experts in the field (I have no problem with it on this forum).

Secrecy is always in the interests of the few, never the many. br, Michael

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Hmmmm, I just had a sense that this is left over from the planted "stalker" fears, "blackops survelliance" etc. that "anonymous" have status within the informal establishment of opinion. It is moot without observation of the fact. The nwo, infiltration, etc. want people to be afraid of them and each other, it inhibits alliance against the nwo agenda.

I say make them lie in order to have standing as a human being, that is a rule which can be broken. A rule with a fundamental relationship to intent. Break that one, your IP address is banned. Without a name, one can still participate, but their words will have to resonate with facts and reason in the peoples interests to have standing during informal discussion of internet forums. Such is good, because only those that can do so will gain respect.

"Secrecy is always in the interests of the few, never the many."

True, but there is much more to it within the range of the many. Some of the many are acting on unreasonable fears and accepting secrecy under any conditions resulting from it.

[-] 0 points by ScrewyL (809) 11 years ago

Traitors will not bring the full story and that will be exposed.

STUDY that statement, for it is profound.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Thanks for observing the factuality of that. All we need is a method of communication to test information by a sincere group, with priority created and veracity confimed, and the traitors will be exposed because they work illogically against the priority and have no verified information.

[-] 0 points by Crimzon (91) from Arizona City, AZ 10 years ago

I think they made more than one site for the sheer fact that if the government somehow manage to shut one of them down.

There will be a multitude in tact to keep Occupy connected. I've only been using this one... but I've been wanting to hear more about movements and their progress.

Is this the only one with a newsfeed, is there one thats updated more regularly.

The news / media does not update on telivision, internet revolving around Occupy even though main stream media should.

[-] 0 points by Durandus (181) 10 years ago

I've been visiting Occupytogether.org since late October and, from what I've seen in comparison, there are not nearly as many trolls there, they get busted off the site for being half as rude as the gutter balls here...not that you can't be a contrarian or argue from any spectrum of the political divide there, you can, and many do..and those dialogues that are good there are quite a bit better than the good dialogues here...more thoughtful, engaging...certainly more respectful...but I say that having not browsed about here as long, so I'm still looking and may be mistaken. But yes...I'd agree...multiplying sites, replicating sites that already exist is not likely to get better results.

[-] 2 points by ropeknot (359) 10 years ago

Is it because of the way it's set up , or is it more like a Microsoft vs. Linux thing ?

[-] 0 points by Durandus (181) 10 years ago

I'm not sure how to compare except that those who were inspired to set-up the site also assumed responsibility for assuring that the site serve the interests of intelligent and civil dialogue...something that comes with the mantle of leadership, whether assumed or elected...that is, a responsibility to protect the original interest of the project. I think that the fear of censorship here has disabled this sensibility, allowing for distraction that should be squashed in the interests of fair play and civility...personal attacks being among the principal signals that a guest is tending toward dismissal, and being fairly warned in advance can be rightly subject to censure.

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[-] -2 points by Stormcrow (11) 10 years ago

So you want to ban "free speech"?

[-] 0 points by ropeknot (359) 10 years ago

no , just spam !

[-] -3 points by kelliwankenobi (21) 10 years ago

you can't handle debate....you can't handle competing ideas because your ideas suck....correct me if I'm wrong but you believe that a massive hood wink from the 1% has stolen wealth from the poor and the 99% are owed something? Wealth redistribution? Stuff? Cars? Houses? Jobs? Ownership of something? What is it exactly..and don't pontificate with me. What do you want....be pithy, to the point and stop with B.S.!!! What the Fuck does OWS want that is going to make life so magically better for all?

[-] -3 points by Richardkentgates (5) 11 years ago

Old hippie fuck I need your help. Need help making a t-shirt. We need to draw a picture of Zooccotti Park with a cage around it. Here are some ideas: Draw a hippie climbing the cage like a monkey and throwing shit. Draw a hippie rolling in mud and shit like a pig. Draw hippies fucking like dogs. Draw a picture of a hippie eating peanuts like a big fucking elephant. Draw a hippie as a lazy fucking Ape doing nothing.

[-] 1 points by paulg5 (673) 11 years ago

9 bucks an hour is just keeping you out of the Zooccotti muck! What will happen to you when they take that away to? You can pretend your not in the same boat, but your kidding yourself. Your a walmart hero!

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[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 11 years ago

why is that funny ?

[-] 2 points by Thrasymoque (-11) 11 years ago

Just trying to protect the site -- Thrasymoque

[-] 1 points by TheStop (53) 10 years ago

you lie

[-] 1 points by yoss33 (269) 11 years ago

You may be right, but after considering it a great deal, and being active on this forum for awhile, i have come to the conclusion that this is not that place.

I recommend this site for people who are genuinely interested and invested in the positive potential of Occupy.

http://www.occupycafe.org/

The moderating policies on this site, the way the forum itself is structured, the amount of counterproductive threads, the purposeful subversiveness of i'm guessing what is beyond mere trollishness but deliberate sabotage convince me that this will never be the forum for truly productive, effective discussion, and it saddens me to say this, but i must be honest.

I encourage others to post other links as well. I think eventually people serious about this movement will gravitate to whichever place proves to be most conducive. This forum is not, in my opinion, that place. Not at all, and i hold little hope of that changing, lest it is addressed at the NY GA or something.

It is good for the news updates though. I do not mean to offend anyone, there is some good things about it as well, but i feel they are outweighed by the negatives, and a much better format, with some what are really common sense things being done, could be fairly easily achieved.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

yoss33 wrote: this will never be the forum for truly productive, effective discussion, END-----

The effect desired is that all the demands of occupy be reasonably met. Unity is required. Gathering at a visible point is logical rather than a site that does not have 1,000's of people in the street, at times throughout, linked to the forum.

Unity is required. I can easily establish that article 5 of the constitution, enacted through the states, is what we must unify around because it is the only authority which yields sufficient power from any act citizens can take; our firrst and last right.

I would submit that recognizing what works, and overtly indicating that, such as putting "ART5" after you username brings us together no matter where we are.

I define "productive discussion" as that which dynamically increases in participants over a short period of time, working towards meeting a requisite of unity.

[-] 1 points by ropeknot (359) 11 years ago

Such as ; O.T.W. ( Occupy The World )

[-] 1 points by CobyART5 (59) 11 years ago

Let's Do This !!!
This is real. Something we can all get behind.

[-] 1 points by rockyracoon2 (276) 11 years ago

yes, mucho importante mi amigo. hope ur on it, blessed are we who follow our hearts and also don't follow them. blessed are all :)

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Article 5 is our first and last right. We must use it to defend the constitution or lose all rights.

[-] 1 points by madcat (47) 11 years ago

I agree ... too many websites spreads things around too much, although it also makes it harder to shut it down. I do miss the old BBS days though, but not the 2400 baud modem.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Actually I'm certain you are describing a tactic used to clutter the web with misinformation or misdirection. Imagine how easy it would be to generate 10,000 websites and promote them, if you could do with the black budget or profits from drug/arms dealing such has been shown with Iran Contra? If they all had some facts, but of those most important, all were slightly wrong in critical fashions preventing true cognition of what is happening.

Similar to this. http://politics.salon.com/2010/01/15/sunstein_2/

[-] 1 points by Durandus (181) 10 years ago

I'm not sure that's a realistic worry, but at any rate so far as dialogue goes among Occupiers, the proof is in the pudding...which is to say that it should not be so difficult to spot and virtually isolate subversives, distractors, trolls and the like from the genuine by virtue of their humane or inhumane spirit.

Even supposing that you get some clever wit who is able to maintain their presence without showing their hand, as they engage ideas they can be countered with reasonable arguements that will clarify the direction of their thought as being helpful or hurtful to the humane goals that should be the touchstone of Occupy endeavors, Direct Actions, or educative aims.

One thing I've noticed here on this site that makes that identification more difficult is the willingness of many to engage in vulgar combativeness and namecalling. I'm convinced that stooping to the tenor of aggression muddies the water and diverts valueble energy from those who may be able to steer dialogue to useful purposes. This should be one sign that the spirit of Occupy is drifting away from its social usefulness and productivity and avoided at all costs, principally the cost to some egos. Unless the spirit of open dialogue is maintained in a civil manner, Occupiers will only be contributing to the problem of social division despite whatever good intentions and potential capacities for positive change they may otherwise intellectually possess. Occupiers need to clear the air on this site or the clutter of animosity will continue to be an obstruction in the process of change and evolution of valueble ideas.

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[-] 1 points by madcat (47) 11 years ago

Exactly ... Anybody can register a domain name, and somebody could even write scripts to automate the whole process of setting up domains and uploading content to them, you wouldn't even need a heck of allot of money. It's becoming more and more important to double check everything you think is fact, in particular if you learned it off the internet.

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Yes, and the slicker they are, the bigger the chance they are a cointelpro nugget of disinfo. Some of my efforts to share 9-11 truth turned into exposure of web infiltration of forums by what is some form of agent, and to forum is a front for their activity.

http://algoxy.com/psych/whatis9-11disinfo-sitemap.html

[-] 1 points by EndTheFed214 (113) 11 years ago

until the goverment and elite ban free spech and what we can look at on the interent your right

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Article 5 convention NOW!

But, we must assure that information needed for survival is shared and understood in our democratic society.

http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html

[-] 1 points by occupywallstreetbabycom (12) 11 years ago

My name is Chris Coon and I have made a website for occupiers to Unite at called www.Occupiersunite.org and Taking ideas and taking any help from people that would like to help with words of encouragement and I do not take donations on the site. please check out the site

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

Hi Chris, I went to your site, clicked to leave a comment and got this,

Page Not Found Click here to return to the home page or try a search:

Meaning your server software has obsoleted my browser or is in compliance with the secret US district court mandate that anarchists must use computers with intel corporation microprocessors.

Corporate technology development is leaving a portion of the population behind, and you've bought into that. It was secret, so how could you know?

Unfortunately for all of us, because there is some real strategy I can offer. How to use article 5 of the US constitution to make a full on, legal and peaceful rebellion.

[-] 1 points by KnaveDave (357) 11 years ago

I agree. It's much better for everyone to find such open discussion all gathered in one place.

--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

And there are a number of reasons its better and there are threasholds of commitment that are traversed, wherein a group gets to distinguish its parts. There are very different intentions here. Spending time understanding other perspectives, some narrow and socially based, others absurdly ignorant of serious issues, and some sincerely seeking or offering solution.---

The fact is, if they not in one place, they will not be able to distinguish one another.

[-] 1 points by Berg (4) 11 years ago

OWS is presently call in topic on C-span Washington Journal. People calling in with their views. OWS also hitting the news this morning. Most are requesting a spokes person.

[-] 1 points by AKR (17) 11 years ago

Agreed, the last thing we need to do is spread things out.

[-] 0 points by theaveng (602) 10 years ago

.com goes all the way back to 1985... older than your 20 years experience online.

And yes agreed it's better to stay in one spot.

.

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[-] 0 points by CafPop (45) from Rochester, NY 11 years ago
[-] -1 points by kelliwankenobi (21) 10 years ago

hahahahahaha.....a pontificating smarty pants insinuating a massive cognitive infiltration and the elite and government are behind it.....oooohhhh scary conspiracy!

Your a goddamn joke! Shut the fuck up!

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[-] 5 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

likewise, i'm the guy working on the wiki. come bring your stuff to the wiki in order to get it more centrally organized while at the same time allowing collaboration on it.


http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Direct_Democracy;_Intellectual_and_Social_Tools_For_High_Order_Problems.#Mission_Statement

Contents [hide]

1 Direct Democracy Links
2 Direct Democracy; Posted on October 30, 2011
3 Advantages
4 Disadvantages
5 Consensus Process Checklist
6 Consensus Process
7 Consensus Hand Signals
8 Consensus Facilitation
9 Decision Tree
10 Goals
11 Mission Statement
12 Vision Statement
13 Grievances
14 List of Problems
15 List of Solutions
16 Non Violent Communication or NVC
17 Truth Value
18 Cogency
19 Problem Solving Tools
20 Problem Solving Process
21 Mirroring
22 I statements
23 Purple Dialog
24 Conversational De-escalation
25 Logical Fallacies
26 Mercy and Severity
[-] 0 points by michaelfinko (71) 11 years ago

This is an excellent start, but not scalable to the entire citizenry, so not realistic.

Why would you have millions of physical direct democracies running parallel throughout the country?? So much ineffectiveness, so many repeated mistakes. (i.e. precedent), and, more important, the exact opposite of what we have now (a few people running the country), which would be no better. Swinging from one extreme to the other is NOT the answer. Much, MUCH better to build upon what we have, take the best of both worlds and FIND THE MIDDLE GROUND.

Also, how can you say it's a democracy when many people cannot contribute? Are you considering ex-pats like me who are 4600miles away? I pay taxes, I should have the right to contribute. What about people that travel regularly, throughout the country or abroad? Or those with extended sicknesses? What if your home of residence is in California but you are working in N.Y?

A realistic and sustainable Direct Democracy can only be done on the internet (this also knocks out one of your listed 'weaknesses' - cost, as today the internet is proving to be a very cost effective tool when used properly)

But, and a VERY BIG but - since now the citizens will be the new 'Congress people' (congress people will be redundant in a DD), then it will be CRITICAL that the exact same rules be applied to all the new voters that apply to congress people - only under FULL LEGAL NAMES, with full voting history visible to all (and we can add a new internet component - history of comments available for all to see their positions). Obviously, a register of citizens on a .gov site running OS software needs to be maintained.

Electronic Voting under full legal names is EXTREMELY important to significantly reduce the chance of it getting HI-JACKED. It will not just be a target (i.e. power/money), but a HUGE MAGNET for the wealthy, big business, etc., to hi-jack, so the same 'bottleneck' as you have today with congress people (i.e. 'middlemen').

Sure, you will always want to have anonymous comments/contributions, but they need to be in a lower level. People who are regular contributors, state there positions, vote like they say, may even have the right to vote for others (that's what I would do - just check in once in a while to make sure they are voting as they say - as really, I don't want to spend much time on voting and government, I want to trust others, but they should be continuously proving it to me, not lying to me at election time, once in 4-5 years, then turning around and doing something else).

br, Michael

[-] 2 points by ScrewyL (809) 11 years ago

Actually, it is not neccessary for the voters to vote publicly as you describe.

Nothing is actually gained by posting my votes for all to see (Even my death-threaters), and a significant amount of freedom of movement is lost for me.

Your analogy doesn't hold up, because: representatives' actions are made public to help us select them based on their track records.

If I am the voter however, and nobody is 'selecting me', then nobody has a vested interest in knowing my track record.

My vote = my decision = my business.

Votes in a direct democracy, should always be confidential.

That is not true in a representative democracy.

Besides, nobody wants direct democracy. We want a Direct Republic, I promise.

[-] 1 points by michaelfinko (71) 11 years ago

What freedom of movement is lost exactly? Political persecution in the work place is by and large eliminated, can't think of any problems this would cause? Paranoia?

Direct Democracy and secret voting is EXTREMELY dangerous, like I said, it will get Hi-Jacked, I would be the first to try ;-) only I'm just too damn honest! Unfortunately, I'm in the minority, there's a plethora of in individuals with questionable ethical backgrounds out there.

Just today, and article on BBC how PR companies are CURRENTLY on message boards under fake names influencing decisions - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15869683

If companies are on message boards (even through paid PR companies) but using their company name, i.e. Nike, McDonalds, IBM, etc. that would be fine, they have a right to defend their image/products.

You point out a correct fact, that in a D.D. each vote would be each persons decision, however, when that decision affects the lives of others, I disagree, because (an you hit the nail on the head)...

The idea behind voting under full legal names is that EVENTUALLY, lots of voting groups will emerge where one can even PASS their voting power to that person or group for as long as they like (as long as they keep voting like they say they keep the voting power, they change, it can be withdrawn). So, kind of like the current representative system but better - 'mass voters' (ones with others votes) have to CONTINUALLY earn trust, so MUCH better than term limits. This is the KEY BENEFIT, as really, I don't want to vote all the time, not interested in being involved in politics, I want to trust another person, but be able to keep tabs on that person (unlike currently where we get all of ONE vote every 4 or 5 years, they lie to us for it, turn around and please the lobbyists - WHAT A JOKE!!!!!)

Secrecy is only good for the few, never for the many. Openness is not something to be feared but welcomed.

I will promote Open Source Direct Democracy until I'm dead because, while it is far from perfect, it is inherently MUCH fairer, balanced and transparent then the current system EVER will be.

I am not part of the top 5% or 10%, you must be ;-)

br, Michael

[-] 1 points by ScrewyL (809) 11 years ago

Real names is distinct from public votes, and workplace persecution is the smallest of worries. Plus, by my votes being private, it is more difficult to study my behaviors to manipulate my decisions.

[-] 1 points by michaelfinko (71) 11 years ago

Companies buy market reports and study us and sway us everyday already.

There are both pluses and minuses to everything. My point is that there are more pluses for average citizens than minuses in being open There are more pluses for small groups and companies when things are close/secret (secrecy is ALWAYS abused, particularly "in the interest of national security").

Think about the absurdity of paper ballot voting - it's 2012!!!! Computers are no longer toys, they are an integral part of our daily lives. When correct implementations of their usage are employed (i.e. actual voting only under full legal names to avoid easy mass electronic manipulation, unfortunately, not like in India today), society advances (not just 'changes' because it's a cool buzzword) from the benefits that are unlocked.

Happy Thanksgiving ! (but really should be acknowledged for what it really is, the start of genocide of Native Americans)

br, Michael

[-] 3 points by chuck1al (1074) from Flomaton, AL 11 years ago

I think it is time to go underground with a direct action committee....

[-] 2 points by ropeknot (359) 11 years ago

We need to call this site O.T.W. ( Occupy The World )

[-] 2 points by VeniVidiVici (14) 11 years ago

Do You Support Wikileaks? *

Please help us petition the White House to stop President Barck Obama from imposing harsh economic sanctions against a promising young African nation whose innocence has been proven by secret US embassy cables released by Wikileaks. Your signature can really save the lives of 5 million people. Thank you.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/vindicated-by-wikileaks-but-not-freed-from-accusat/

[-] 2 points by KVNLGN (154) 11 years ago

question, who is in control of this website ? if that can't be answered then possibly a new site is in order.

[-] 2 points by koloneci (72) 11 years ago

You've heard of a wire-tap. The wire-tap has become quite the tool for the intrusive agencies of our Government.

Have you heard of a social-tap. A bit more intrusive, and is ever present on boards such as this one.

From the information gathered, a matrix of sentiment can be collected from the populace.

Here, you now have an ear to whisper, shout and scream in.

These boards are a much more driving force for change than what is happening on the street. It must be directed at the right target though.

The whole premise of these BB's are to organize a movement. But, that is wrong. The real power is the potential to educate the readers and to send a message via the social-tap.

[-] 1 points by KVNLGN (154) 11 years ago

I agree. The real traction gained will be from a site like this penetrating into family rooms across america.

[-] 1 points by Wired (16) 11 years ago

I am sure our Government is getting the message more through these forums, than from the occupiers on the street. Apparently, the main stream media is in bed with the corporations. The only way to get a clear picture of the movement is to watch the Youtube channels.

[-] 2 points by OccultWallStreet (5) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

Be aware of red herrings. Red herrings smell and distract you from the real fish.

[-] 0 points by unlabeled (112) 11 years ago

Yes, logical fallacies run rampant on these forums and in the mainstream media. Everyone should be aware. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhhJAGjBIEw&feature=player_embedded

[-] 2 points by brightonsage (4494) 11 years ago

I hope it is still non-violent.

Occupy Resistance as a suitable alternative, as is The Multitude.

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[-] 1 points by lonespectator (106) 10 years ago

I just checked out the new website...same as the old website. No one is focused(what a surprise). and no-one is talking about the importance of keeping the pressure on Obama by "Occupying the White House" though we do have nice tents and generators in the park down the street. OWH now!!

[-] 1 points by thunk (15) 10 years ago

I disagree, OWS needs to be decentralized and on many sites as possible. Being on one site gives TOO MUCH POWER TO THE OWNER.

You never want to make a website popular. Because then they will have a monopoly and they could start charging us money to use it! Where will we go? All the other sites would have shut down.

Just look at Facebook which plans to have a $5 monthly fee in March of 2012.

[-] 1 points by takeTsquare (77) 10 years ago

Hi Thanks for adding this, I will share the rest if you do not mind: We All Occupy in: https://sites.google.com/site/wealloccupy/home OccupyVoice: A Resource for Anyone Affected by the Occupy Movement: http://occupyathome.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/occupyvoice-a-resource-for-everyone-affected-by-the-occupy-movement/ OCUPII: http://occupii.org/ intends to be global, created by comrades in Occupy London Sayoccupy: http://sayoccupy.com/ a really warm hearted bunch of Americans http://freedividual.com/2011/12/05/vote-for-nobody-2/ http://interoccupy.org/ for conecting workgroups al over the US (CoC meetings) THE SUPER WIKI: http://wiki.occupy.net/wiki/Main_Page please share your projects there Please every body share your community platfroms with us :) THNX

[-] 1 points by takeTsquare (77) 10 years ago

Hi Thanks for adding this, I will share the rest if you do not mind: We All Occupy in: https://sites.google.com/site/wealloccupy/home OccupyVoice: A Resource for Anyone Affected by the Occupy Movement: http://occupyathome.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/occupyvoice-a-resource-for-everyone-affected-by-the-occupy-movement/ OCUPII: http://occupii.org/ intends to be global, created by comrades in Occupy London Sayoccupy: http://sayoccupy.com/ a really warm hearted bunch of Americans http://freedividual.com/2011/12/05/vote-for-nobody-2/ http://interoccupy.org/ for conecting workgroups al over the US (CoC meetings) THE SUPER WIKI: http://wiki.occupy.net/wiki/Main_Page please share your projects there Please every body share your community platfroms with us :) THNX

[-] 1 points by quddous73 (2) 10 years ago

Before you pass any judgement on my comment, please know that you should do so without any prejudice. I know that may be hard in the states. I'm from London and I've been following Occupy Wall street for a few months now. I just would like to say that you guys will never win against the government. As an Ahmadi Muslim, I see that the West's democratic standing has been prophesied as the single biggest evil that has ever existed in the world. There is a description to this extent, namely, the "Dajjal" whose description in the Traditions (Hadith) of Islam matches perfectly to the 'system'.

[-] 1 points by ReubenBaron (47) from New York, NY 10 years ago

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[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 10 years ago

This is why we are here this is why you are needed.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/inside-job-documentary/

Share, circulate, educate, inspire.

[-] 1 points by Durandus (181) 10 years ago

I don't see anything different or more compelling on this occupyr.com site than I do on occupywallst.org. Basically mirror images of each other.

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[-] 1 points by leavethecities (318) 10 years ago

I really like the ows art.

[-] 1 points by jomojo (562) 10 years ago

Who needs to know who.

[-] 1 points by badmoonie (3) 11 years ago

Over Thanksgiving weekend I flew to New York to add my voice to the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement in Zucotti Park Manhattan.

Inspired by the news reports and especially the Stephen Colbert interview of Ketchup, a self-proclaimed “autonomous person” or non-leader of the Occupy Wall Street movement, I set aside the whole day to protest whatever OWS was protesting....see the rest of article here www.badmoonie.com

[-] 1 points by daleziemianski (15) from Lancaster, OH 11 years ago

Hey what if we just went to every corporate Facebook Page in droves and just started posting links to stories about how they abuse our rights and all the corrupt stuff they do. You know, like go to waltard's facebook pages and instead of Liking the page, post a comment every time they offer a sale about some sweatshop story they're involved in. Sure they'll delete the links eventually but we can just keep posting them. They'd have to hire someone 24/7/365 to delete them all. Then the people who 'like' them will see the true stories.

https://www.facebook.com/Walmart2275

[-] 1 points by billbux (35) 11 years ago

We are beta testing a new system that allows anonymous geo-tagged messages.

We would love for you to try it and give us feedback – you can find us at:

http://www.nuuzit.com/

http://www.nuuzit.com/faq

Thank you!

[-] 1 points by Evabodine (18) from New York, NY 11 years ago

Hello, Fellow Occupiers!

I just wanted to share a video I put together of the Times Square protest back on Oct. 15th.-- Hope you all like it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCoBoivyi8I&hd=1

[-] 1 points by BTKcongress (149) 11 years ago

do NOT visit the site!! stick to this one... a conspiracy theorist might think this is an attempt by a gov't agency or corporate elite to fractionalize the movement.

[-] 1 points by WakeUp2011 (12) 11 years ago

Spreading the truth is crucial to creating the world we want to see. We need to wake up as many people as we can to get real change. Those that don't want to wake up can stay asleep. Keep spreading the word. Here's a start..

http://youtu.be/iRyjzCa7_AE

[-] 1 points by rintintin (1) 11 years ago

Form Occupy political party to "occupy" government by getting elected, to represent the public, since the corrupt Democratic and Republican parties are sold out to their wealthy big business funders. Get big money funding out of politics. Continue the current Occupy movement, but create Occupy political party. If interested, email me at letters49@yahoo.com

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 11 years ago

We occupy this first!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/

Then we occupy this second!

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/11/crash-settlement-leads-to-debate-on-recalled-rental-cars/

Enterprise did everything under the sun to sweep the murder of those poor girls under the rug. That family only received a couple million dollars for all they went through. When you have to fight for years to bring the company that murdered your children to justice, you deserve a lot more. Enterprise does not deserve to be in business. :(

[-] 1 points by TexasThunder (68) 11 years ago

I find our elected officials incompetent to govern. They need some incentive that will mean something to them instead of putting funds at risk that will cause harm to those persons and institutions who can least afford such loss. I suggest that these officials’ pay and/or benefits be cut if and/or when they fail to do their job. As it is, party “a” threatens to harm parties “”d” through “z” if parties “b” and “c” can’t come to an agreement. It makes no sense whatsoever to threaten Congress with cuts that will not have any impact on them directly. Our Constitution establishes the type of government we are to have. We do not need to establish any “sub” groups within these institutions. They are all responsible collectively to govern and if/when they fail to do so they are all liable collectively. The “carrot and stick” method only works when the carrot or stick is guaranteed to the same one. These officials have received their carrot upon being elected as they shall receive full pay and full benefits for the rest of their life even if they only serve one term. I say put all options “on the table” including their lifetime pay and benefits. I’m of the position that such a “stick” would cause these officials to get their head out of the clouds and their feet on the ground.

[-] 1 points by ThePixelBar (4) 11 years ago

I made a couple of posters for OWS. If you like them share them. If you have advice for me shoot me a message.

http://www.thepixelbar.com/pixel-journal/2011/11/21/ows.html

Keep fighting the good fight everybody.

[-] 1 points by entrepreneur (69) 11 years ago

who owns this www.occupyr.com site? is it owned by 1% or their conspiracy? Can someone from occupywallstreet validate that this new site is legitimate to post?

[-] 1 points by occupywallstreetbabycom (12) 11 years ago

Nope! But I can attest that I own www.occupiersunite.org. And I can also attest that I am at OWS everyday and been there everday since the middle of last month and I can attest that I am part of the 99% by both my other sites. www.askamillion.com or www.occupywallstreetbaby.com I am a homeless guy that was put out of my house and I was then put out of the shelter Aug. 18th. Please Check out the site

[-] 1 points by barb (835) 11 years ago

Create a poll website where everyone can vote on specific issues whether they agree or not. This way the movement can get a feel on what is most important to the public and run with it.

[-] 1 points by nick9tap (1) 10 years ago

A web site containing post capitalists scenarios that we could vote on would be advantagoius too!

[-] 1 points by CancelCurrency (128) 11 years ago

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. July 4, 1776.

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[-] 0 points by nattyraney (15) 10 years ago

all the egyptians are going on this new site called jinnwe.com

2 guys from tahrir made it

[-] 0 points by precipice (220) 10 years ago

cool

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[-] 0 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

Superrific

[-] 0 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

sweet

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[-] 0 points by Jimboiam (812) 11 years ago

Got to love gems like this on that great site.

Eleven Reasons Overthrowing the Government Would Fix the Economy

[-] 0 points by w9illiam (97) 11 years ago

Are there a bunch of counter revolutionaries on this page?

[-] 0 points by SparkyJP (1646) from Westminster, MD 11 years ago

--------- The Smart Revolution for a Direct Democracy --------

http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx

http://www.osixs.org/Vote.aspx

"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." ~ Abraham Lincoln ~

[-] 0 points by badconduct (550) 11 years ago

Hopefully; by taking a bunch of minor, unrelated incidents and blurring them together to give the illusion we live in some kind of police state, we can rally enough violent idiots together to allow people to riot and loot without persecution. That's the whole plan, right?

[-] 0 points by bre0001 (50) from Brooklyn, NY 11 years ago

umm, ok.

[-] 0 points by x234 (-1) 11 years ago

You need to occupy Washington D.C. - that's where the change can be made - Seriously...being spread out across the country with nothing happening except getting thrown out of parks is not the way. Get all of Occupy wall street to show up in Washington. Like the soldiers after WW1 did to get their bonuses. Occupy Washington D.C.

[-] 0 points by nichole (525) 11 years ago

This is a fraud. Why would we Occupy (usage: take control of (a place, esp. a country) by military conquest or settlement : Syria was occupied by France under a League of Nations mandate. • enter, take control of, and stay in (a building) illegally and often forcibly, esp. as a form of protest : the workers occupied the factory.) Revolution?

[-] 0 points by david19harness (87) 11 years ago

Strategy: PUBLIC VOTE OPTION on the COMPETING FINAL DEMOCRATIC vs FINAL REPUBLICAN vs INDEPENDENT VERSIONS of a CONGRESSIONAL BILL.

That's the title of a White House petition http://wh.gov/bhC Petitions receiving 25,000 votes in 30 days, are referred for evaluation followed by official White House statement.

[-] 0 points by DouginJax (40) 11 years ago

I think Evolution is a less voluntary process. It takes time and pins on random circumstance. Revolutions are a force of society based on immediate needs. I do prefer the less violent sound of the term Evolution, but my gut is sure Revolution is what we need today.

[-] 0 points by nichole (525) 11 years ago

Dubious, indeed... Go hand over your strategies.

[-] 0 points by ZenDogTroll (13032) from South Burlington, VT 11 years ago

I like trolls. They can be very entertaining . . .

They can also be very useful - they serve as a clear indicator of who feels most threatened and by what.

Clearly the repelican party trembles in the face of this movement, fearing that their carefully crafted party unity may soon face total and complete disarray . . .

[-] 0 points by nichole (525) 11 years ago

Are you ridiculing the Occupy Movement.? Why would we Occupy Revolution? We Occupy that which we wish to change -- certainly not the new system we are trying to create... why would we Occupy that? Koch Bros.? Hey bro, can you spare me a dime? haha, no don't need a dime, just demanding a voice.

[-] -1 points by Frizzle (520) 11 years ago

I think they don't mean it like that. Occupy is often seen as a name now. So resistance done by Occupy could be named Occupy Resistance. Ofcourse i do not know if this is the reason. But that's how i read it when i saw the name of their website.

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[-] -1 points by Idaltu (662) 11 years ago

The problem I have with that message board is that it is not friendly to people with visual problems. If I use the zoom function to read the font size does not expand with the page....Until that is fixed I can't use it because I can't see it....

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[-] -1 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 11 years ago

WPWW!

[-] -1 points by moediggity (646) from Houston, TX 11 years ago

lame

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 11 years ago

I know...

[-] -1 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

Great job guys, let's push for evolution

[-] -1 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

Awesome keep it strong!!!

[-] -2 points by saged (33) 11 years ago

does anyone now how much anal sex was going on at zuccotti park ? im a college researcher and i havent been able to get any realiable numbers

[-] -2 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

sweet

[-] -2 points by nichole (525) 11 years ago

You've got a lot of lackeys.

[-] -2 points by wnkinc (12) from Bodega Bay, CA 11 years ago

go home save your money, save your strength, show our country you do care. show your first black american president you do care. why are you making his job harder? hes really trying the best he can,. remember its what we can do for our country, not what our country can do for us,. i never need the american government for anything, im soo poor i can't P straight. U occupiers, shame on you for putting women out in the cold and into a dangerous place,, its not the american way.. go home, wait for this spring,.

[-] -2 points by stevo (314) 11 years ago

Today's educational video: The assembly and storage of Molotov cocktails.

[-] -2 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

Superrific

[-] -2 points by OLLAG (84) 11 years ago

demands like what? get away with borrowing money you don't have?

[-] -2 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

Nice

[-] -1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 11 years ago

Is there less hate over there?

[-] -2 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

Nice

[-] -2 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

I like it

[-] -2 points by precipice (220) 11 years ago

This is really terrific. Fine work.

[-] -3 points by RichardGates (1529) 11 years ago

This content is user submitted and not an official statement

[-] -3 points by OhWhatScum (-3) 11 years ago

Yet another grabage dump for OWShitters.

[+] -5 points by stevo (314) 11 years ago

Looks like the only thing you're occupying anymore is moms basement or a jail cell

[-] 1 points by KVNLGN (154) 11 years ago

Hey Mommmmm...where's the meatloaf !!!

[+] -7 points by stevo (314) 11 years ago

Meet other smelly out of work people shitting in buckets...just like you.