Forum Post: Mandela legislator: Arabs misappropriate "apartheid" to slander Israel- MP Kenneth Meshoe
Posted 10 years ago on Dec. 16, 2013, 9:59 p.m. EST by GirlFriday
(17435)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
What is a ''Mandela Legislator'' exactly ?! Is this forum-post for real ?!!
Let's see who else is ''hijacking the word ... APARTHEID'' shall we ?!!!
''Noam Chomsky - "Israel : An Apartheid State" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV3YnZnL99M ;
''Israeli Apartheid exposed by South African leader'' (Desmond Tutu) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzey6qg2lMA ;
''Jewish Woman Exposes Israeli Apartheid & Ethnic Cleansing'' : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIyJpW4F_1M ;
"A One State Solution For All" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjNJacDvPo ;
''The Desert of Israeli Democracy'', by Max Blumenthal : http://truth-out.org/news/item/19404-the-desert-of-israeli-democracy-a-trip-through-the-negev-desert-leads-to-the-heart-of-israels-national-nightmare + fyi :
http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-policy-to-israel-palestine-must-change-by-by-ji/ &
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-both-sides-are-awful-dismissal-of-gaza-ignores/ .
Who is ''hijacking'' what and where and how and since when ... would be more apt questions perhaps ?
fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...
''David Remnick, the editor of The New Yorker, published the most transgressive portion of Ari Shavit’s very-Zionist book, a piece about the ethnic cleansing of Lydda in 1948, and when the book came out a month later, Remnick interviewed Shavit on stage at the 92d Street Y, where it was clear that the two journalists have been friends for many years. But Remnick also differed with Shavit over several (very) important issues, and in some of those utterances, Remnick showed that he is tired of Israel’s claims and even sympathetic to anti-Zionist arguments.'' from :
''The discussion turns to the Nakba, and Shavit takes the side of Israel’s ethnic cleansers. The founders of Israel can say with justice to bleeding-heart liberals, “We did the dirty work. They live on the land that we cleared for them and they say that these guys committed war crimes.” It’s a valid argument, Shavit says, because of the American genocide of Native American. Shavit says .. ''We will know the answer about Zionism in 100 years time or 200 years’ time.” History doesn’t have time for that.'' Also consider :
''Yes! The New Yorker publishes Munayyer’s call for ‘representative and democratic single state’!'' by Philip Weiss : http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/yes-the-new-yorker-publishes-munayyers-call-for-representative-and-democratic-single-state.html and thus also do see ...
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/11/after-gaza-a-single-state.html &
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37217.htm .
These are grown up links for grown up people, so we'll see IF they can be handled here without vexation.
veritas vos liberabit ...
"Aaron Bushnell’s Divine Violence" - by Chris Hedges:
"Aaron Bushnell’s self-immolation was ultimately a religious act,one that radically delineates good and evil and calls us to resist."
Now consider, "Why Israel wants to erase context and history in the war on Gaza"! by Ilan Pappe:
And note - "The dehistoricisation of what is happening helps Israel pursue genocidal policies in Gaza"!
respice; adspice; prospice!
"I've realized that a lot of the difference between me and my less radical friends - is that they are less capable of imagining a better world than I am." FROM ...
Aaron Bushnell RiP, would have been 26 on the 30th of June 2024.
And also see https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/aaron-bushnell-self-immolation-what-we-know.html
and further note .. "Aaron Bushnell Was the Tip of the Iceberg. Now US Troops are Quitting the Military Over Gaza"! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWdPNABjAqk (12m 42s)
Also: https://truthout.org/articles/israeli-forces-dropped-8-2000-pound-bombs-on-gaza-safe-zone-killing-90/ by Sharon Zhang and by the same author, further try to closely consider the following...
https://truthout.org/articles/oxfam-israel-has-reduced-water-access-in-gaza-by-94-percent-since-october/
& https://truthout.org/articles/israeli-forces-post-pictures-of-stripped-detained-palestinian-children-online/
Also now & IF anyone thought that the cold blooded murder of twin babies was any kind of accident ... then please closely consider these two links for insight into true psychopathy!
a) https://x.com/RyanRozbiani/status/1823876253541093542
& now .. b) https://www.facebook.com/reel/370447679426969
Further - please try to closely consider the information, in this two tweet 'thread' by one Mr. Ralph Nader:
https://x.com/RalphNader/status/1826634802432213300 https://x.com/RalphNader/status/1826634804013551876
PS - https://www.democracynow.org/2024/9/3/haditha_massacre [insightful & important 16m vid]
Finally note: "How Israel attempts to justify indiscriminate attacks on civilians (and why it’s failing)"! ... https://mondoweiss.net/2024/09/how-israel-attempts-to-justify-indiscriminate-attacks-on-civilians-and-why-its-failing/ by Craig Mokhiber
From which this "Israel’s mass terror attack in Lebanon that led to the death and maiming of hundreds of civilians also served as a playbook for how Israel seeks to justify its war crimes but as the attack's (near) aftermath showed, these tricks are beginning to fail."
respice; adspice; prospice ...
Consider that "Nothing Is Off the Table in Netanyahu’s Mafia State of Israel"! a Ha'aretz Editorial
https://informationclearinghouse.blog/2024/06/01/nothing-is-off-the-table-in-netanyahus-mafia-state-of-israel/13/ - and also closely consider ...
"Israeli BLACKMAIL Op EXPOSED: Norm Finkelstein" https://youtu.be/6MlksZ92agI [13m]
MULTUM in parvo!
Gaza violence greater than WWII as the amount of Israeli bombs dropped on Gaza surpasses that of World War II
"Israel dropped 70,000 tons of bombs on Gaza since last October, exceeding World War II bombings in Dresden, Hamburg, London combined, according to rights monitor."
https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/amount-of-israeli-bombs-dropped-on-gaza-surpasses-that-of-world-war-ii-18169607
"It is estimated that Israel has dropped more than 70,000 tons of explosives on Gaza in addition to its bulldozing operations, resulting in the destruction of all buildings at a distance of up to one kilometer in the east and north of the Strip in order to create a so-called buffer zone," according to the Geneva-based human rights monitor organisation.
The Germans bombed London, dropping around 18,300 tons of bombs between 1940 and 1941, according to various estimates, including archives from the New York Times.
The Allies dropped 8,500 tons of bombs on Hamburg in the summer of 1943, said Hendrik Althoff, a research fellow at the Department of History at the University of Hamburg.
The Allies also used 3,900 tons of bombs on Dresden in February 1945, according to historical records."
Let those numbers sink in.
Consider: "Israeli-American Scholar Exposes Gaza Genocide - w/. Raz Segal"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqHoRP9u5Bk (42m) & please now note
how: "Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Loses Univ. of Minnesota Job Offer for Saying Israel Is Committing Genocide"! https://www.democracynow.org/2024/6/18/raz_segal_university_of_minnesota (17m)
As the Holocaust scholar Raz Segal, who has characterized Israel's war on Gaza as "a textbook case of genocide," has just had a job offer rescinded by the University of Minnesota because of opposition to his analysis. He says the episode represents a major threat to academic freedom. Further, try to consider ...
As Professor John Mearsheimer reacts to Secretary of State Anthony Blinken’s description of the cease fire status and determines that he “not telling a true story.”
fiat lux et fiat justitia ruat caelum!
20,000 children missing in Gaza. Their suffering is unimaginable. This is on top of the 15,000 children already killed.
https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/over-20000-children-estimated-to-be-lost-in-gaza
https://truthout.org/articles/21000-children-are-missing-in-gaza-on-top-of-over-15000-killed-by-israel/
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/6/24/headlines/20_000_gazan_children_are_unaccounted_for_at_least_4_000_buried_under_the_rubble
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/08/middleeast/gaza-children-losing-legs-disease-intl-hnk/index.html
ENOUGH!
Let me clue you in, you were done here http://occupywallst.org/forum/mandela-legislator-arabs-misappropriate-apartheid-/#comment-1015145
The executive committee of the Association of American Universities, which represents 62 schools across the US and Canada, has rejected the boycott.
Congressman Eliot Engel (D-New York), ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, sent a letter to ASA president Curtis Marez on Monday with State Department’s yearly Country Reports on Human Rights Practices attached for a litany of nations that fail to respect academic freedom or the rights of their citizens.
“Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas himself made clear that his government does not support boycotts of the institutions that the ASA is now targeting,” Engel wrote. http://www.jpost.com/International/Top-US-schools-reject-boycott-of-Israel-336022
You might want to rethink your game plan.
Hush now. Still your mind tho' of course you won't deal with my links above, calm yourself & consider :
pax ...
Wrong answer. You're done.
No, I was not ''done'' at all. You don't engage others' links but see below and think before you reply.
ad iudicium ...
You were done. You had nothing but bullshit to offer after delivering the wall of shit.
To reiterate just how seriously not ''done'' I was, I further append & strongly recommend for u & others :
multum in parvo ...
You're not bright enough to handle this type of discussion. You aren't bright enough to handle the concept of nonviolence. You're not bright enough to handle critical thinking. You look incredibly ignorant. The moment that you decided to create a wall of shit just to be an ass--and filled it with nothing--you were done.
There's no discussion here because of the absurd nature & very dubious origin of your initial forum post coupled with your clear affiliation to Neocon & Right-wing, Israeli Likudnik sources & as I said to u here :
''If you want to be a mouthpiece for Right-Wing-Nut, Neocon & Zionist propaganda AND help to show the connection between these .. then please, be my guest BUT do NOT 'ass-u-me' that I will not be pointing out that matter for others ! I called you a ''conservative-liberal'' once in a PM (not long before you lost the plot, melted-down and forced me to write you a poem) but now I see that tho' you have 'liberal-ish' social views, you are really quite right-wing !! I said that I believed that you were predominantly for The 99% not so long ago but I may be wrong and I 'mos def' have to qualify that by saying that you are .. 'Possibly for The 99% - so long as they aren't Palestinians, Arabs or The 20% of humans, who are Muslims' !!!''
Your abject failure on this thread is now complete, in your refusal to acknowledge never mind comment on, that 'Huff.Po' link up therer^ but here - let me give you another chance :
At no point, whatsoever - did you bring up ''nonviolence'' to me here and it took me to raise the matter in reply a few comments further down this thread but some days ago in time. You know nothing of me nor how hard I pushed 'NV' in my OWS LiveStream days before I even joined the forum or of even after I first joined this forum ; nor my extensive sources about 'NV' ; nor my political actions closer to home. Yet u think u can somehow cast aspersions and sound off but ''empty vessels (do) make the most noise''.
You may be a 'Big Fish' and big deal in your little pond or hasbara circle & hell ... you might even have that thing called a 'degree' or even some kind of inflated 'post-grad' ego but the truth is .. u wouldn't last ten minutes in my neck of the woods and you should quietly reflect upon who it is that looks ''incredibly ignorant'' here because as 'ZenDog' is prone to saying ... ''it's right out there in the car park''.
I'll be ''done'' when I decide I'm done on this thread and possibly before OWS' 3rd anniversary. We'll see.
veritas vos liberabit ...
"That Israel is committing the crime of apartheid has been expressed by, beyond HRW, Amnesty, Israeli rights group B’Tselem, and prominent Israelis -- "including a former education minister, a former environment minister, and even two former prime ministers."
Israel's past, present & future as an extreme RW Ethno-State should be of deep concern to anyone who values plural democracy & I postulate that it is directly impacting on democracy in the U$A too! Also see:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/23/west-bank-new-entry-rules-further-isolate-palestinians -via:
https://twitter.com/KenRoth/status/1617411489811337217 & worth examining Roth's Twitter feed!
Alas, the erstwhile OWS poster GirlFriday is not here any longer to defend her "Likudnik/DNC" positions, however one is left to wonder - WTF she'd say to all the clear evidence of "Israeli Apartheid", right now?!
ad iudicium?!
"Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: a cruel system of domination and a crime against humanity"
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/
"Our report reveals the true extent of Israel’s apartheid regime. Whether they live in Gaza, East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank, or Israel itself, Palestinians are treated as an inferior racial group and systematically deprived of their rights. We found that Israel’s cruel policies of segregation, dispossession and exclusion across all territories under its control clearly amount to apartheid. The international community has an obligation to act" says Agnès Callamard, Amnesty International’s Secretary General"
"The Occupation of the American Mind"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP0-YohJR-g (original, full 84-minute documentary version)
& also note this shorter 45 minute version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmoYoiMgpWU
Narrated by Roger Waters & made in 2018 however totally relevant and applicable to events in Israel/ Palestine now!
Q. E. D.!!!
"The further someone is toward the left end of the spectrum - the more likely they are to respond to an accusation of racism by stopping in their tracks and inquiring deeply into whether the accusation might have some truth to it. IF the accusation is that you harbor the same kind of racism that gave rise to the Holocaust — one of the worst mass atrocities in all of human history - then you are all the more likely to stop and take the accusation seriously.
"This is a healthy impulse. If everyone took seriously their responsibility to expunge everything in them that feeds into the injustices of our world, we would have peace and harmony on earth very quickly.But this impulse gets exploited .. in the most odiously cynical way imaginable ... to defend the interests of a murderous and tyrannical government .. whose very existence is premised on racism, apartheid, ethnic cleansing and abuse." - FROM:
"False Accusations Of Anti-Semitism Exploit A Healthy Impulse To Advance A Profoundly Sick One"! https://informationclearinghouse.blog/2023/11/16/false-accusations-of-anti-semitism-exploit-a-healthy-impulse-to-advance-a-profoundly-sick-one/ - by Caitlin Johnstone
And at home n' abroad; again and again - the Irish get it right in solidarity with Palestine!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGfAo23HIvk (9m 29s)
Meanwhile in the U$A, this abomination continues to prevail!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_NQt0gB-V4 (12m 37s)
Further - "Israel’s War on American Student Activists"!!!! by James Bamford: https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-spying-american-student-activists/
Finally NB: "War on Gaza: I am not Palestinian. But if you are not grieving, something is wrong"! by Francesca Vawdrey: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-gaza-war-reject-censorship-grief-must
And note - "The global powers divide lives into those who can be mourned and those who cannot; those whose mourning justifies the killing machine and those whose mourning undermines it"!
fiat lux et fiat justitia ...
'‘Israel is a Lying Machine, Palestine has the right to defend itself’'! [first broadcast - May 2021]
https://rumble.com/v44cmyr-rip-john-pilger-1939-2023-israel-is-a-lying-machine-palestine-has-the-right.html {28m} - This was rebroadcast again after JP died on the 31st of December 2023.
& as "THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE IT STARTED ON OCT 7", then please reprise this list: https://twitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1777297587986481598 and now ...
further "What Really Happened on Oct 7" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mxfnya3ZRc
Also note: "Prof. Jeffrey Sachs: Gaza and Free Speech" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xJKLT5Y9Os
Further consider "Revolt in the Universities" https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/revolt-in-the-universities-read-by - audio and full transcript - and ...
from which "University students across the country facing mass arrests, suspensions, evictions and explusions are our last, best hope to halt the genocide in Gaza"!
and note: "Columbia Professor Rashid Khalidi says student protesters are ‘on the right side of history’" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz2VcELqF7s - and further please try to carefully note:
"Hamas: How Israel created its own nemesis w/Paola Caridi | The Chris Hedges Report": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79-43bBUGsU (52m - an essential video for the curious) &
"Israel’s starvation policy in Gaza is forcing people to eat tree leaves"! by Tareq S Hajjaj: https://mondoweiss.net/2024/07/israels-starvation-policy-in-gaza-is-forcing-people-to-eat-t and
"Newly Released Gaza Hospital Director Alleges 'Daily Torture' in Israeli Detention"!! by Edward Carver https://www.commondreams.org/news/gaza-hospital-director-released + finally:
"IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on Oct. 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive"!!! https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-07/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-ordered-hannibal-directive-on-october-7-to-prevent-hamas-taking-soldiers-captive/00000190-89a2-d776-a3b1-fdbe45520000 by Yaniv Kubovich & from which ...
"'There was crazy hysteria and decisions started being made without verified information': Documents and testimonies obtained by Haaretz, reveal the 'Hannibal Operational Order',which directs the use of force to prevent soldiers being taken into captivity - was employed at three army facilities infiltrated by Hamas, potentially endangering civilians as well"!
fiat lux et adspice et prospice ...
"The U.S. Must Act to end the Gaza Disaster" says Bernie Sanders
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/27/the-us-must-act-to-end-the-gaza-disaster
And, out of curiosity I wondered if perhaps Bernie Sanders isn't taking AIPAC money. While it is hard to find that information exactly it does turn out that AIPAC members have spent a lot of money attacking Bernie.
"Meet the AIPAC leaders bankrolling the Bernie Sanders attack ads"
"Several high-profile AIPAC donors are bankrolling ads against Bernie Sanders’ presidential bid as the lobbying group tackles the growing criticism of Israel among Democrats."
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2020/02/aipac-bankrolling-attack-ads-bernie-sanders-iowa-nevada.html
"Label Israel what it is: An Apartheid State"! by T.Ahwal
and which ends: "My message to all who are enraged by labeling Israel for what it is, a settler-colonial criminal state, is to heed the words of former U.S. President and humanitarian Jimmy Carter, who said, 'aggression unopposed becomes a contagious disease.' The rage should not be about pointing out the accurate facts but about how fascism is the norm in Israel."
fiat justitia - ruat caelum!
"South Africa Files Case Against Israel at International Court of Justice - over 'Genocidal' War on Gaza"!
"South Africa has filed a case at the main judicial body for the United Nations - the International Court of Justice in The Hague, accusing Israel of committing genocide in Gaza. “I believe South Africa will win an order against Israel to - cease and desist from committing all acts of genocide, against the Palestinians,” says Francis Boyle, an international human rights lawyer who won two requests at the ICJ under the UN Genocide Convention of 1948 for provisional protection on behalf of the Rep of Bosnia and Herzegovina against Yugoslavia. Mr Francis Boyle says Israel has a history of listening to the United States’ orders to stop its assaults on the Occupied Palestinian Territories. “We here in the United States of America, have the power to stop this.”
And https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/29/middleeast/south-africa-icj-israel-genocide-intl/index.html
Also https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/04/stakes-high-as-south-africa-brings-claim-of-genocidal-intent-against-israel
Finally "This Lawyer Reveals Why Israel's Gaza Onslaught Could Be Stopped By Genocide Case" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8raPPzme0s (38m)
fiat justitia - ruat caelum!
Consider: "Irish lawyer's stunning speech at The Hague accusing Israel of genocide in Gaza"!
"Blinne Ní Ghrálaigh, stood in front of the International Court of Justice as part of South Africa's legal team taking action against Israel for it's conduct against Gaza."
& "'Gaslighting & Cherry-Picking': How Israel Is Defending Itself at World Court on Charges of Genocide"!
Finally also note "How Israel indoctrinates its people w/Miko Peled: The Chris Hedges Report"!
et veritas vos liberabit!
Note - "FROM ALBERT EINSTEIN TO NOAM CHOMSKY ... FAMOUS JEWS WHO HAVE OPPOSED ISRAEL"!
and how "There's a long tradition among prominent Jewish figures opposing the Israeli state, who found themselves, like Isaac Asimov, “in the odd position of not being a Zionist”!!
respice; adspice; prospice!!!
"Towers of Ivory & Steel" Jewish Scholar Says Israeli Universities Deny Palestinian Freedom"!
And note "Israeli scholar Maya Wind’s new book - 'Towers of Ivory and Steel: How Israeli Universities Deny Palestinian Freedom'.. documents how Israeli universities directly constrain Palestinian rights by supporting & even developing the policies of occupation and apartheid used by the Israeli state.“In the West, Israeli universities are considered bastions of pluralism and democracy. But in fact … they are a central pillar of the Israeli regime's of oppression against Palestinians,” says Wind. She also discusses Israel’s “scholasticide", in Gaza - the "intentional destruction of Palestinian education” & the movement of conscientious objectors to Israel’s mandatory conscription, in which she took part when she refused to enlist in the army at age 18 and served 40 days in a military prison."
Further via same source: "“Resist the Normalization of Evil”: Israeli Reporter Amira Hass"; https://youtu.be/DIILcoPSNQs (42m)
Also - https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/tax-dollars-need-not-genocide-israeli-bond-buying-sparks-backlash
And please note .. "We Volunteered at a Gaza Hospital. What We Saw Was Unspeakable"! https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/19/gaza-hospitals-surgeons-00167697 - and
IF you can bear it? https://x.com/caitoz/status/1814648205126349272 [3m audio & transcript]
Further "The decimation of Gaza’s academia is ‘impossible to quantify’" by Ibtisam Mahdi https://www.972mag.com/gaza-academia-destruction-universities/
Again and wearily, also consider: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-10/ty-article-timeline/.premium/how-netanyahu-has-systematically-foiled-talks-to-release-hostages-from-hamas-captivity/00000190-9b91-d591-a7ff-fff341120000 - by Michael Hauser Tov
And NB https://www.middleeasteye.net/explainers/how-us-universities-are-trying-to-muzzle-pro-palestine-protests-before-begin - by Azad Essa and Umar A Farooq
& - "'Campus Has Become Unrecognizable': Columbia Prof. Franke Faces Firing After DN Interview on Gaza"! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8FZXNbz_h4 (10m) Very Revealing!!
Now finally - "How I wish Harvard taught students to talk about Israel"!!! ... by Prof. Steven Pinker: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/10/07/opinion/steven-pinker-harvard-students-israel-protests-october-7/
As poor Professor Steven Pinker says he's in a "state of agonized ambivalence" about Israel starving 2 million Palestinians and burning hospital patients to death. "Venomous" students protesting this outside his Ivory Tower leave him "stunned" & so the solution is he says, that they all need to be re-educated!!!
et veritas vos liberabit?!
"The war in Gaza has been an intense lesson in western hypocrisy. It won’t be forgotten" by Nesrine Malik
"And so the past few weeks have been a speeded-up lesson in the illusory nature of international law. Unlike Iraq, it has not taken years for the bodies to pile up, for the evidence to mount and to prove that the venture made no one safer, was merciless and misguided – and ultimately for confidence and trust in political leadership to leach away. Gaza is happening in real time, in some instances livestreamed. The bombardments are so relentless and concentrated that entire families have been wiped out. Thousands have been displaced, dragging their children in makeshift sleds (another harrowing scene). There is also the moral force of the children. Not just their deaths, estimated at up to 6,000 in less than two months, but their orphaning, displacement, and deprivation of food and water in a besieged Gaza that is now, according to Unicef, “the most dangerous place in the world to be a child”."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/27/war-gaza-lesson-western-hypocrisy-international-community
That is the horrible truth.
"'Israel Practices Apartheid,' - say Israeli Law Professors"!
ad iudicium?!
Note - "Israel Imposing Apartheid On Palestinians, says former Mossad chief"! by Chris McGreal:
Consider: "Tamir Pardo comments, slammed by ruling Likud party, carry weight because of high regard for intelligence agency in Israel"!
ad iudicium!
Note "The use of the word apartheid to describe Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is now nearly ubiquitous." Amnesty International,for instance, published a 2022 report with a powerful title: “Israel’s Apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel System of Domination and Crime against Humanity” & in a blunt conclusion, Amnesty wrote:
“Israel has perpetrated the international wrong of apartheid, as a human rights violation and a violation of public international law wherever it imposes this system.[Al]most all of Israel’s civilian administration and military authorities, as well as governmental & quasi-governmental institutions, are involved in the enforcement of the system of apartheid against Palestinians across Israel and the OPT ... and against Palestinian refugees and their descendants outside the territory.” - FROM:
And also note: "Speaking to Israel's public broadcasting station Kan, Amiram Levin, former head of the Israeli army's Northern Command, said: "there hasn't been a democracy there in 57 years, there is total apartheid." According to Levin "the IDF, which is forced to exert sovereignty there, is rotting from the inside." - FROM:
"Ex-Israeli General says army partner in West Bank War Crimes; invokes Nazi Germany"! https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex-israeli-general-says-army-partaking-in-west-bank-war-crimes-invokes-nazi-germany/00000189-ee00-d9cf-a7eb-ff2b12bf0000
Also "Washington Post and MSNBC voices say ‘Apartheid’ (and J Street inches closer)"!! https://mondoweiss.net/2023/08/washington-post-and-msnbc-voices-say-apartheid-and-j-street-inches-closer/ - by Philip Weiss
As - "The letter accusing Israel of apartheid initiated by Israeli Jewish scholars has given permission to commentators at mainstream publications to echo the accusation."
also see - https://mondoweiss.net/2023/08/weekly-briefing-democrats-make-pathetic-pilgrimage-to-apartheid-state-embrace-rightwing-leader/
further https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-10/ty-article-opinion/.highlight/for-decades-i-defended-israel-from-claims-of-apartheid-i-no-longer-can/00000189-d4ac-d821-afdd-dfacb4060000 by Benjamin Pogrund
& NB http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-policy-to-israel-palestine-must-change-by-by-ji/#comment-1082361
Despite all the efforts, Extreme RW, Race Based, Supremacist, Sectarian Ideologies will never prevail!!!
et veritas vos liberabit!
Consider that Israel is "a democracy", just like Apartheid South Africa was called "a democracy"!
And from the Guardian link - note "The Tel Aviv protest, along with smaller demonstrations in Jerusalem, Haifa & Beersheba, were sparked by fears that the far-reaching proposals undermine democratic norms. Since Israel has no formal constitution its Supreme Court plays important role in keeping government ministers in check." Despite the US having a written constitution, this also applies imo & further consider,
from HRW, this: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/01/23/west-bank-new-entry-rules-further-isolate-palestinians
& see http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-policy-to-israel-palestine-must-change-by-by-ji/#comment-1081899
fiat lux et fiat justitia!
"Israel approves 'National Guard', sought by far-right security minister"! - by ''MEE'' & agencies:
"Arab politicians have denounced the national guard as a 'militia' for Itamar Ben-Gvir, while some say new force could be used to crack down on protests against the government"
e tenebris - tenebris?!
"How AI can be used to legitimize Israeli Apartheid"! by Shir Hever:
"Israel's status as a global leader in the arms industry is overhyped, but it is already weaponizing artificial intelligence to legitimize apartheid."
caveat!
"Israelis Fear their Democracy is Crumbling"
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/02/16/israel-democracy-protests-us-00083057
Consider how: "Wave of ‘Israeli Spring’ protests leaves Palestinian citizens out in the cold"
As - "Arab minority has been alienated by united opposition against judicial reforms by Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition." And, by Meron Rapoport and Oren Ziv, please also ...
consider -- https://www.thenation.com/article/world/netanyahu-israel-democracy-protests/
& -- https://truthout.org/articles/arkansass-anti-bds-law-remains-in-effect-because-scotus-refused-to-review-it/ by Marjorie Cohn
ad iudicium?!
Listen Mr. Obvious Comprehension Problems, I want you to keep posting to this thread. I just stopped listening to you.You were, therefore, done when you posted the wall of shit. You are damned lucky that I gave you the time of day after your first post to this thread.
So, by all means post away. You look stupid.
I've run into trash like you on the internet before. It's not about the issue. It's not about change or conflict resolution. In fact, if problems are resolved then you won't have anyone to prey on.
So, do carry on. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there are steps that are being taken that you aren't smart enough to acknowledge. http://occupywallst.org/forum/social-media-campaign-notamartyr-seeks-to-challeng/
Over time, your ilk will be cast aside for actual progress.
Are u really feeling 'preyed on' GF ?!
I mean all I'm doing is replying to u here .. but I can back off ... IF it is all getting too much for u, ok ?!!
If I wanted to 'prey on' u (eg. like u do on hchc), shall we have a look where else I could have bitten ?!!!
===========================================================================
GF - ''Forum Search Results''
~~~~~~~~~~1) Social media campaign ‘#notamartyr’ seeks to challenge taboos 1 comments 23 hours ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 18 hours ago
2) Norquist Tells ALEC He Wants U.S. to Revive Decapitation 33 comments 2 days ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 36 minutes ago
3) Federalist Society for Law and Public Policy Studies 2 comments 2 days ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 19 hours ago
4) Exclusive: Largest Dark Money Donor Groups Share Funds, Hide Links 0 comments 3 days ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 days ago
5) Federal judge strikes down Florida Gov. Rick Scott’s welfare drug testing law 5 comments 3 days ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 days ago
6) MP Hamadeh: Saudi grant to end Hezbollah arms dominance 5 comments 5 days ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 4 days ago
7) Bereaved families march in Jerusalem protest of Palestinian prisoner release 0 comments 6 days ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 6 days ago
8) IDF strikes six Gaza targets in retaliation to shooting of Defense Ministry employee 0 comments 1 week ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 1 week ago
9) Police officer stabbed in back during terrorist attack near West Bank checkpoint 0 comments 1 week ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 1 week ago
10) Kassam rocket fired into southern Israel from Gaza 0 comments 1 week ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 1 week ago
11) Suspected terror attack on Bat Yam bus 2 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 weeks ago
12) Jordan’s survivor king now needs international help 0 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 weeks ago
13) Hezbollah chief vows to 'punish' Israel over killing of key aide 0 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 weeks ago
14) Jerusalem's missing voters 70 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 1 week ago
15) The ASA’s assault on academic freedom 0 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 weeks ago
16) Analysis: Israel opts for restraint in face of Lebanese provocation 0 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 weeks ago
17) Mandela legislator: Arabs misappropriate "apartheid" to slander Israel- MP Kenneth Meshoe 210 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 8 minutes ago
18) Bitcoin Inventor Satoshi Nakamoto is Anonymous-style Cell from Europe 0 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 weeks ago
19) Alpine Glacier, Unchanged for Thousands of Years, Now Melting 10 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 weeks ago
20) Fighting over Aetna's disclosure By Wendell Potter 22 comments 2 weeks ago by GirlFriday (21201) last comment 2 weeks ago
===========================================================================
That's 13 out of your last 20 forum-posts (65%) clearly about only one matter and from one point of view ... that of a 'Neocon / Likudnik' shill !!! Like I have said before - anyone else doing this for a non OWS / 99% entity would have been clearly sanctioned a long time ago, imo. I've only commented on 2 of these threads, here & on #14 above & now you're whining & bleating, as if u had nothing to do with anything !!!
Your intemperate and provocative language is your own worst enemy. I do not have your experience on ''the internet'' and I don't know where else you ply your Neocon propaganda ... but it's just NOT going to wash here, sister. U can all me ''stupid'' all you like - but take me for an idiot on this forum at your peril !!
I mostly liked your stuff these last couple of years and have defended you to others but now you're self-exposed as ''a mouthpiece for Right-Wing-Nut, Neocon & Zionist propaganda AND (u) help to show the connection between these'' .. so, yes - I'll carry on and simply leave it to readers to see which way the wind blows here. I'm long enough in the tooth to be able to tell 'shill from shinola' and readers don't have to go very far from this thread to be able to do so too. The more you try to insult me, the harder I'll post !
ad iudicium ...
Do I feel preyed upon? Absolutely not. I see right through your bullshit. You feed on that shit. You're damn straight I posted 65% of those articles but that isn't neocon propaganda. That is precisely where you screwed up and where your agenda becomes clear.
It's the fact that this is being discussed at all. That's what really kills you. Just like a half of dozen other topics. Like I said, I come across your trash all the time across the internet.
Your Neocon sources are listed here on this thread, so u need not squirm and try to use specious canards and deny the fact but in case of any doubt, do let me remind u of just a few of them again :
http://www.jpost.com/Enviro-Tech/Exclusive-Israel-Jordan-PA-to-sign-trilateral-water-swap-sales-agreements-334505 ;
http://www.timesofisrael.com/bennett-any-peace-agreement-that-excludes-hamas-is-a-joke/ ;
http://www.israelallies.org/usa/resources_archive/mp_kenneth_meshoe_on_apartheid/ ;
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/174338#.UrG5HOK7YbI ;
http://www.jewishexponent.com/the-palestinians-and-their-state-of-failure etc.
There are more on the thread but the abv will suffice as examples.So Naftali Bennet; Jonathan Shanzer; Binyamin Netanyahu; Moshe Ya'alon; Ariel Sharon; Kenneth Meshoe etc. - were your sources in buried links etc. whereas all the links I've placed on this thread clearly speak for themselves GF.My agenda is stated & clear for all to see, whereas your agenda goes unstated. So, let these links shine a light for u :
http://jfjfp.com/ ;
http://mikopeled.com/ ;
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ ;
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ &
http://www.annainthemiddleeast.com/index.html .
I clearly told u in my reply above that .. ''the more you insult me, the harder I'll post'', yet you did persist [ http://occupywallst.org/forum/samer-issawi-hunger-strikes-and-the-palestinian-st/#comment-1017056 ] and therefore, I'll continue do as promised as u haven't ''stopped listening'' - but just making any sense !
U try to use matters like 'Non-Violence' - but with no real intention to follow though & more as a tenuous smokescreen. You'll wriggle and squeal but to no avail GF because you are hung on your own petard on this thread. You aren't ready for any real discussions on substantive matters but I'll keep speaking at u ; through u; past u; around u & beyond u. So ever heard of 'Oded Yinon' GF? Let me remind/acquaint u :
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815 &/or :
http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0005345.html [Alt. link & font] + ...
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=oded_yinon &
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7bc_1380368946 {a short video}.
''Over time, your ilk will be cast aside for actual progress'' Thanx. Ditto. I couldn't have put it any better.
Btw ''trash'' has 0 to do with me. U r the one who sat on his lap when he introduced u to David Graeber.
respice ; adspice ; prospice ...
I did not have the time to look at all the evidence...or that "wall of shit"..lol as GF calls it that you put forward on GF being a "Neocon / Likudnik" until last night, hence I chalked it up to her political naivety...BUT clearly it is FAR more than that!!
Her support of the corrupt, inhumane state of Israel and their hegemonic aspirations mirrors that of the neocons in the World.
BAM! Guess what? You lose again.
For your edification. http://occupywallst.org/forum/financing-the-flames-from-a-mobile-home-in-florida/
It sucks to be you. Lost in the shit.
As 55 Palestinian Protesters die in Gaza and many hundreds are badly injured by Israeli Army after US Embassy opens in Jerusalem, contrary to International Law ... South Africa, which knows a thing or two about Apartheid .. withdraws its ambassador from Israel:
http://ewn.co.za/2018/05/14/sa-withdraws-israel-ambassador-after-gaza-deadly-attack + see...
https://www.amnestyusa.org/gaza-by-the-numbers/ for some facts re. Biggest Prison on Earth!
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/05/15/gaza-killings-names-and-faces-those-killed-israeli-forces-week
fiat justitia ruat caelum ...
58 now dead in Gaza. Thousands injured.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-protests-latest-palestinians-killed-border-embassy-jerusalem-trump-a8351761.html
so is there an occupy movement in isreal ?
yEP.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Occupy-Tel-Aviv-Fake-Evi-by-Joseph-Zernik-Corruption_Evictions_Homeless_Housing-131227-697.html
https://he-il.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Tel-Aviv/176826612400471
https://www.google.com/search?q=OCCUPY+TEL+AVIV&rlz=1C1ASUC_enUS569US569&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=zrTLUqOhNaeBygGGjoGQDQ&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=992
[Removed]
Naaah, you're wrong lol and maybe you should re-consider here - even tho' I said tarry before replying :
Btw re. the author of the embedded article in the link above, it's Ze'ev Smilansky which just happens to be Moshe Ya'alon's surname at birth. Any connection d'you reckon ?! Any thoughts about the piece ?!!
multum in parvo ...
I told you, Shadz. After you started with your little walls of shit-you were done. Your nothing more than a piece of shit. Always were.
That's not very nice, sob ;'-( & L0L0L !!!
''Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein, who declined the Presidency of Israel btw. Never mind how is it that you have come to be such an ardent NeoCon Likudnik, the real questions are: a) can you resist making the 200th comment here and if you do, b) will it have anything to do with this link --- http://occupywallst.org/forum/mandela-legislator-arabs-misappropriate-apartheid-/#comment-1015860 and the very interesting and revealing article embedded therein ?!!
respice, adspice, prospice ...
Hey look Shadz is flip.
Hey look, GF is a shill !!!
temet nosce ...
Ouch.
"As the New Right-Wing Israeli regime ramps up its oppression of Palestinians, the Biden administration has taken its capitulation to Israel, to a new and absurd level. After nominating an independent expert to serve on a human rights commission - the U.S. State Department, withdrew the nomination because the expert accurately called Israel an Apartheid State!!! A week later, United States prevented the United Nations Security Council from voting to condemn Israel’s Illegal Settlements in Palestinian Territory"!! :-(
Consider how "An independent human rights expert was denied a post for accurately criticizing Israel"!!!
"Israel’s new fascist government has increased the collective punishment of Palestinians - a war crime."
NB "Last year was the deadliest year in the West Bank since 2006, with 171 Palestinians—including 30 children—killed by IDF forces."
fiat lux et fiat justitia!
Nah, that's your job.
Whoever, whenever, wherever - I stand with The 99%, irrespective of creed, colour or calling & a One State solution, with equal rights, one person - one vote and I believe that this will be best achieved by non-violence and mass actions, BDS et al, much along the lines of the previously Apartheid (but now not) South Africa - where Albi Sachs, Ronnie Kasrils, Ruth Furst etc. were prominent in the struggle !!!
"Rabbis for Palestine" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjNJacDvPo and ...
''The World's Blatant Double Standard - in Israel's Favor'', by Larry Derfner : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37252.htm .
spero meliora ...
WoW! This is quite a thread! Also see -
http://www.nationofchange.org/israeli-palestinian-peace-talks-another-exercise-western-fantasy-1375710535
'But at the altar of perfidy, many weep for the struggle for Israeli –Palestinian peace has now become another ‘exercise in western fantasy.’
Never Give Up On Striving For Peace & Reconciliation! Occupy The New Paradigms, Salam & Shalom!
"The story of the 1948 massacre at Tantura exposes the brutality of the Nakba – and the coordinated effort to deny Palestinian accounts of atrocities in favour of Israel’s whitewashed narratives." .... from:
"The Story of Tantura is the Story of Palestine’s Nakba"! by H.A.Shah: https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/01/tantura-massacre-nakba-palestine-israel - and also consider:
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/01/emma-watson-palestine-israel-antisemitism .... by Em Hilton
fiat justitia ...
Like The ANC & "Absent Any Proof - Israel Designates Palestinian Rights Groups “Terrorist”!" by Marjorie Cohn:
https://truthout.org/articles/absent-any-proof-israel-designates-palestinian-rights-groups-terrorist/
& note https://truthout.org/articles/lawmakers-arent-progressive-if-they-ignore-palestinian-rights/
respice, prospice et fiat justitia!
''A US-backed deal to bring ‘peace’ to the Middle East would just legitimise Israeli aggression – and oppress my people further.'' - from ...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/19/ultimate-deal-israel-palestine-peace-middle-east by Dr. Hanan Ashrawi
& http://occupywallst.org/forum/us-policy-to-israel-palestine-must-change-by-by-ji/#comment-1076021
fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...
[Removed]
Nope. Just in a rush. I'll use your ''I'll reply later'' line & take a rain check 'cause I gotta go & visit family.
vale ...
''It isn't totally independent. It's quite dependent on the US. Which means that the supply of weapons and money cannot be stopped from the US until and unless you can stop the money and weapons from China, Russia, Iran etc.
''Can you do that? Ya, probably not. As soon as I finish conquering the world, that's first on my list.
''You are either ignoring this or you know this and you are signing a death warrant so to speak. Had the terrorist attacks not occurred then the marriage law wouldn't be a major issue. This game of pretending that many of these actions happen out of the blue is a major mistake. Further, it prevents actions that would bring progress from occurring.
''I could sit here all day and jack with that article. But, you really aren't worth the time and, frankly, that entire site is pretty worthless.
''Ya, the Jews were invited to good old Britain by Cromwell. 'Cept, they were there already as noted in the Magna Carter of 1215: If one who has borrowed from the Jews any sum, great or small, die before that loan be repaid, the debt shall not bear interest while the heir is under age, of whomsoever he may hold; and if the debt fall into our hands, we will not take anything except the principal sum contained in the bond.
''And if anyone die indebted to the Jews, his wife shall have her dower and pay nothing of that debt; and if any children of the deceased are left under age, necessaries shall be provided for them in keeping with the holding of the deceased; and out of the residue the debt shall be paid, reserving, however, service due to feudal lords; in like manner let it be done touching debts due to others than Jews. Link : http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/magna_carta/translation.html .
''Which means that they would have had to been invited back. Why would that have to happen? Edict of Expulsion 1290 : http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/history/350.shtml
''I don't trust anyone's history that starts with a cursory reading of the Old Testament.''
Now to reply to all that. From the top. Paradoxically, Israel is both dependent on The US AND - it is The Most Independent country you can imagine. Do go try to work that out IF you are minded to because for sure, it's not beyond your wits to do so tho' it may be beyond your inclination and WTF do mean that I'm ''signing a death warrant'' ?! Bullshitting over hyperbolic hypotheticals is actually tantamount to creating specious canards, right ?!! Please let's just try to stick to what is actually real and extant shall we ?!!!
''Terrorists'' ; terrORists ; tERRORists'' - blah, blah, fkn blah !!! Again, ''Ever heard of the Hashomer ; the Haganah ; the Palmach ; the Irgun ; the Lehi Underground / The Stern Gang and what was their raison d'etre & modus operandi ?!!! [from : http://occupywallst.org/forum/jerusalems-missing-voters/#comment-1015464 ] What ''marriage law'' & who is ''pretending'' ?!! Finally see if you can deconstruct through your own language to the psychology beyond, when you say : ''Further, it prevents actions that would bring progress from occurring.'' 'cause d'u get that that's 'Uncle Ariel' & Bend-yer-mind Nutty-Yahoo's tack ?!
Re. ''I could sit here all day and jack with that article. But, you really aren't worth the time and, frankly, that entire site is pretty worthless.'' Oh-Kaay but let us both be clear which article you're talking about with a working link shall we ?
''Hanna Braun is a retired lecturer, living in London. She is a former Israeli, having emigrated to Palestine as a child in 1937 to escape Nazi Germany -- her grandmother later died in the Terezin ghetto. She was in the Haganah in 1948 but then left Israel in 1958 for Britain - after having become disillusioned with the Israeli government.''
Frankly we can impugn each others' sources until the cows come home but I'll be standing by my links & also stand 'four square' with The ICH but are you, GF really still sicking by the likes of 'Naftali Bennet' [ http://baityehudi.org.il/englp/natali.htm ] & with ''Jonathan Shanzer'' from the Neocon 'stink-tank', '' The Foundation for Defense of Democracies'' [& try to see who sits with him there - http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies ] ?! {+'Right Click' links to open in new tab}.
The ICH is a ''Clearing House'' for articles and ''News you won't find on CNN of FoxNews'', and not unlike 'Truth-Out'', 'Alter-Net', 'Counterpunch' & other such progressive websites but I'm really not too surprised if they are not to your tastes due to your right-wing, conservative inclinations if not affiliations, so we will just have to agree to 'call a spade a spade' and then let readers decide how and where the chips will fall.
Finally I'm unsure what your final two points re. the 'Magna Carta' & Oliver Cromwell, have to do with the matters in question here but ''I don't trust anyone's history that starts with a cursory reading'' and wholly subjective, one-sided, conservative and propagandist view .. just like that renowned ''international figure'' [ http://www.israelallies.org/usa/resources_archive/mp_kenneth_meshoe_on_apartheid/ ]- The Reverend Kenneth Meshoe - who sits at variance with Nelson Mandela, Archbishop Tutu & many Jewish folk too :
http://anc.org.za/show.php?id=3384 by 'NM' & ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5TiUhhm7cQ ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzey6qg2lMA ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjNJacDvPo &
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIyJpW4F_1M .
fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...
"Over 500 former Biden, DNC Staffers urge Protection for Palestinians in letter" by Sharon Zhang:
fiat lux et fiat justitia ...
Now to reply to all that. From the top. Paradoxically, Israel is both dependent on The US AND - it is The Most Independent country you can imagine. Do go try to work that out IF you are minded to because for sure, it's not beyond your wits to do so tho' it may be beyond your inclination and WTF do mean that I'm ''signing a death warrant'' ?! Bullshitting over hyperbolic hypotheticals is actually tantamount to creating specious canards, right ?!! Please let's just try to stick to what is actually real and extant shall we ?!!!
Listen, my little dimwitted one, you know precisely what I am saying. You are simply attempting to offer a circle jerk.
'GirlFriedHead' - I do NOT ''know precisely what'' you are saying at all but I can now see who you are a mouthpiece for Very Clearly !!! Not only Nefatali Bennet ( http://baityehudi.org.il/englp/natali.htm ) & that ''international figure'', The Reverend Kenneth Meshoe, with whom you chose to lead your forum-post here { http://www.israelallies.org/usa/resources_archive/mp_kenneth_meshoe_on_apartheid/ } ... but now it's also Binyamin Netanyahu & Moshe Ya'alon [ http://occupywallst.org/forum/samer-issawi-hunger-strikes-and-the-palestinian-st/#comment-1016167 ] !! Frankly, anyone else who tried to do this on behalf of any other entity, would have been outed, exposed & banned as an outright propagandist stooge by now, lol !
However this entire thread is instructive (tho' would I say that if I wasn't invested in it as much ?) & see if you can register and engage with the following links, as we try to stumble on 'from darkness into light' :
''Congress Must Not Cede Its War Power to Israel'', by Sheldon Richman : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37228.htm from which, I extract :
http://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Nuclear%20Weapon%20Free%20Iran%20Act.pdf &
http://www.aipac.org/~/media/Publications/Policy%20and%20Politics/AIPAC%20Analyses/Issue%20Memos/2013/11/AIPAC%20Memo%20-%20US%20Must%20Prevent%20a%20Nuclear%20Capable%20Iran.pdf
The very real questions could well be : Just who has co-opted who & who is the ''client'' here actually ?!!!
e tenebris, lux ...
"The real question could be, who has co-opted who and who is the "client" here actually."
That's a great question, and it is one that has been bounding around inside my head for some time.
And on another note, you will not have to worry about falling off the "pedastal, " as I will kick a leg out of it if I notice you going off the deep-end & of course I am asking the same of you. ;-)
From the far off northern lands where lingonberries grow....Gott Nytt Ar Tack & Solidaritet Min Van
Mmmm...lingonberries!
The warmest of best wishes & Happy New Year to you both, and to all in our 'community' here, who work tirelessly for all people.
"Let our New Year's resolution be this: We will be there for one another as fellow members of humanity, in the finest sense of the word." ~Goran Persson
[Removed]
Isn't this fun?
"GirlFriday" and the 'DNC/Likud Faction' who were here - all painted themselves into a corner and got themselves banned from this (still extant) OWS forum - but had they not done so & were still here, the following 4 links would have been my last word on the matter to her/them on this particular forum-post:
"Two former Israeli ambassadors to South Africa join tsunami of ‘apartheid’ accusations against Israel" by Philip Weiss: https://mondoweiss.net/2021/06/two-former-israeli-ambassadors-to-south-africa-join-tsunami-of-apartheid-accusations-against-israel/
"Andrew Feinstein Interview - Palestine Action ... Direct Action Against The Arms Trade": https://realmedia.press/andrew-feinstein-palestine/ (video and additional info)
Alt. link to AF link above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_i8DSPscLQ (just 10m 22s video)
"Israel’s Arms and Security Industry Is Reshaping State Violence Everywhere":A.S.Estapé https://truthout.org/articles/israels-arms-and-security-industry-is-reshaping-state-violence-everywhere/
"Sustainable Peace must end Israeli Apartheid; anything else is just a ceasefire" - by C. J. Polychroniou: https://truthout.org/articles/sustainable-peace-must-end-israeli-apartheid-anything-else-is-just-a-ceasefire/
ad iudicium ...
Israel has proven that it has a functioning parliamentary democracy despite the long rule of the Likud faction. Congratulations !
I wonder whether Israel has a justice system that can beat Red China's 99% conviction rate. The U.S. Justice System is nowhere close to getting those exceptionally accurate conviction rates. The lousiness of the U.S. Justice System is why those prisoners detained in Guantanamo base { who were obviously terrorists ( because their nostrils were pointing downward and they didn't offer any candies/sweets to their captors before approaching them so they weren't kidnappers but terrorists ) } had motioned to be tried in U.S. Courts. We let far too many guilty people go free in order to avoid convicting an innocent person ( yeah, Mom was right about her superior never-failed-once criterion for identifying terrorists and kidnappers.) One dollar melon, what is the one dollar melon? One dollar melon, what is the one dollar melon?
One may feel much better selling a treasure such as Corning ware at a low price to one who appreciates it than at a high price to a rich ( though not wealthy ) and/or powerful one who just tosses it aside ( or even worse to: blow it up, cut it up, or pitch into the garbage ) after getting it.
One reason why the wanton creation of credit is bad is that it virtualizes "worth" with vaporware and facilitates abuses. It generates inflation once the populace figures out what is happening as they always will when they discover to their dismay that [their], "money doesn't go as far as before." How money is created out of thin air in the U.S. ( other countries also loved to literally make money, too, often resulting in eventual regime changes after popular uprisings; when everyone but a few has been reduced to paper-billionaire paupers, they have little to lose in a revolution but a chance to loot the few or even do much worse cringe-worthy things ) is a process which is nearly impossible to explain to younger people whose eyes usually glaze over. The process is highly distributed across different organizations and agencies: U.S. Congress, the President, the Federal Reserve, the National Banks, the U.S. Treasury and its U.S. Mint, the other banks... When one buys a house with a bank cashier check, where did that check come from? The bank printed it in lieu of paying money in cash that it supposedly has but mostly doesn't. One gets the impression once one has charted its flows that the money creation process was originally designed for hiding money laundering. Maybe it indeed was: for getting anything purchasable out of hot thin air "bought" in a legalized Ponzi scheme.
FYI: Apartheid =/= Democracy, U fkn moron and also NB:
From which this excerpt ... "Where is the Israel of today? In 2018, its parliament, the Knesset, passed a
new foundational act referred to as the Nation State law that canonized Jewish supremacy over all of its
Palestinian citizens. In unambiguous, seismic- like, terms .. the law removed any and all pretence about
the nature of Israel, identifying the State of Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people alone.The law,
which promotes No Allegiance to Democratic Norms or guarantees of equality, fails to mention, let alone
outlaw .. discrimination on the basis of race, nationality or ethnicity. Designating just Hebrew as the sole
official language of Israel, it has stripped Arabic of its previous de jure state status.It recognizes only the
Jewish people as having any national right of self-determination and calls for the promotion of .. “Jewish
settlement” within Israel to the exclusion of all the other groups, ethnicities and faiths. Constructed of the
Unmistakable Apartheid Features, the law celebrates overtly racist acts while leaving no doubt about the
second class status of Palestinians citizens .. defining sovereignty and democratic self-rule as belonging
solely to the Jewish people of the world .. no matter where they may reside. In relevant part, Act 1 of the
law states that “the Land of Israel (“Eretz Israel”) ... is the historic national home of the Jewish people, in
which the State of Israel was established, and in which .. the Jewish people exercise its natural, cultural,
and historic right to self-determination - which is solely for the Jewish people.” Act 2 limits state symbols,
holidays and recognized religious practices to solely those that are Jewish in history and character. Star
of David… Land of Myth."
Also see this: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/06/10/truth-cant-be-hidden-omar-hits-back-dems-upset-critique-us-israel-atrocities - by Jake Johnson
and - https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2021/06/09/there-is-still-time-to-stop-the-735-million-arms-sale-to-israel/ by William Hartung
But U aren't interested in history/info are U?! Re. "obviously terrorists", heard of Irgun/Lehi/Stern Gang?!
Has your 2 line reply now got longer? U exposed your dad & brother as racists once & now, your mom?!
Seeing as though U were raised by racists grapes ... is it any damn wonder that U like Apartheid Israel?!
Finally, note; https://twitter.com/StanleyCohenLaw/status/1404817077077262344 .. by the same^author!
temet nosce, et - e tenebris, lux?!
So who is whose ''client'' ? ''As above, so below'' & so Gott Nytt Ar, Tack & Solidaritet x 2 ~*~ & fyi :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37228.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37252.htm
pax, amor et lux ; hic, nunc et ubique ...
"Tutu’s courage on Israeli Apartheid is played down in obits in NYT, Washington Post and NPR"!
https://mondoweiss.net/2021/12/tutus-courage-on-israeli-apartheid-is-played-down-in-obits-in-nyt-washington-post-and-npr/ by James North & Philip Weiss +
"Honoring the Reverend Desmond Tutu" - by Cesar Chelala: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/56946.htm
from which - "Desmond Tutu has said, “Africans believe in something that is difficult to render in English. We call it ubuntu, botho. It means the essence of being human. You know when it is there and when it is absent. It speaks about humanenes, gentleness, hospitality, putting yourself out on behalf of others and being vulnerable. It embraces compassion and toughness. It recognizes that my humanity - is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together.”
fiat justitia - ruat caelum!
"Ben-Gvir’s closest political allies in the Temple Mount movement, are already setting their sights on Passover in April, which this year coincides with the middle of Ramadan. They have appealed to the police, as they do every year, to allow them to carry out provocative rituals, such as animal sacrifice, associated with the construction of a Jewish temple in place of Al-Aqsa Mosque.
"Each year, police try to stop them; but this year, Ben-Gvir will be dictating police policy.
"Scholar Tomer Persico, a keen observer of Ben-Gvir’s Kahanist roots - notes that in a 2019 interview, the Jewish Power leader argued that the “big difference” between him and his mentor, extremist Rabbi Meir Kahane, was that “they give us a microphone”, while Kahane was shunned by the Israeli political establishment.
"That was three years ago. Ben-Gvir has rapidly become the new mainstream in Israel. Today, with his ministerial powers and a national platform to amplify his incitement, it is only a matter of time before he sets things alight." - FROM:
"By visiting Al-Aqsa,the 'Jewish Power' leader showed he has the whip hand and there are surely more provocations up his sleeve"!
MULTUM in parvo!
That's right, it's for real. Did you watch the videos?
The word “Apartheid” itself is Afrikaans for “separateness” & became the official government policy of racial segregation in 1948. The South African apartheid structure was based on a clear-cut separation and segregation policy, like 'Jim Crow' on steroids and it was clear from the outset that the purpose of South Africa’s apartheid system was to create a permanent apartheid structure in order to preserve the established status quo.
For instance, South Africa designed the 1970 'Bantu Homelands Citizens Act' to react and adapt to the increasing criticism from the international community. This bad, dubious law established separate legal entities (Bantustans) & so 'denaturalized' most of the black population so the South African government could argue that the black population was no longer excluded from state affairs because by law they no longer belonged to the South African state. It was aimed at continuing the exploitation of the indigenous workforce and resources, thus fortifying the existing system while at the same time, trying to discard its racist, anti-democratic image.
The creation of a Jewish nation state in a land with a small Jewish minority could only be achieved by forcibly displacing the indigenous population and implanting new Jewish colonists from abroad. Thus accordingly - Zionist Apartheid’s main manifestation is Forced Population Transfer.
Forced Population Transfer has been defined as a practice or policy, that has the purpose or effect of moving persons into or out of an area - either within or across an international border. The intention on “transfer” in Zionist thought was encapsulated in 1905 by the words of Israel Zangwill, one of the early Zionist thinkers, who stated that : “If we wish to give a country to a people without a country, it is utter foolishness to allow it to be the country of two peoples''.
Already 66% of The Palestinians - Christians and Muslims, have been displaced worldwide by Israel’s ongoing forcible displacement of the Palestinian people. Today this population transfer is carried out by Israel in the form of its overall policy of “silent transfer'' - not by mass deportations like in 1948 or 1967. This displacement is silent in the sense that Israel carries it out while trying hard to avoid international attention by displacing small numbers of people on a weekly basis & by settlement building. It is thus distinguishable from the more overt transfers achieved under the pretence of warfare in 1948 or 1967.
Population transfer is achieved by creating an overall untenable living situation that leaves no choice for the original inhabitants other than to leave their homes.Moshe Sharett, one of the signatories of Israel’s 'Declaration of Independence' - indicated the desire to foster onerous living conditions when he stated : “a policy based on minimal fairness should be adopted toward Arabs who were not inclined to leave.”
Therefore, Israel’s Apartheid system is a means to an end and not an end-goal in itself because it does not simply seek to dominate the indigenous Palestinians .. but to forcibly displace them. Finally, some further use of the word ''Apartheid'' re. Israel by people qualified to know - for your continued information & please try to note that it is not just ''Arabs'' or Palestinians who apply the term to their predicament :
''Yes, It Is Apartheid'', by Yossi Sarid : http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/yes-it-is-apartheid-1.244643 ;
''Peace Not Apartheid - Jimmy Carter's Roadmap'', by Norman G. Finkelstein : http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/11/13/jimmy-carter-s-roadmap/ ;
''Heading Toward an Israeli Apartheid State'', by Daniel Blatman : http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/heading-toward-an-israeli-apartheid-state-1.353942 ;
''Why Israeli Apartheid is Worse Than South Africa's Version'', by Gilad Atzmon : http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/08/is-palestinian-solidarity-an-occupied-zone/ &
''Treatment of Palestinians is Apartheid by Any Other Name'', by Jonathan Cook : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35508.htm .
Did I watch both your videos ? Of course I did GF. Rev. Meshoe & his daughter Esther, are really rather well known in certain circles so what he says and why, can be gleaned easily enough, especially if one notes carefully what he says and who posts the videos. What is really most interesting tho', is why you would choose to reference the President of the right wing, 'African Christian Democratic Party' .. just so vociferously as an exemplar of the ''real'' when it comes to Palestine / Israel ?!
respice, adspice, prospice et 'veritas vos liberabit' ...
"The US is shielding Israel from apartheid claims & itself from complicity charges" - by R.Wadi:
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210429-the-us-is-shielding-israel-from-apartheid-claims-and-itself-from-complicity-charges/ & also consider
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/video-how-israel-helped-bring-down-jeremy-corbyn by Asa Winstanley
fiat lux et fiat justitia ...
"Amid protests of Palestinian Evictions in Jerusalem, Israel raids Al-Aqsa Mosque" by DemNow!
respice et prospice!
None of us are free until Palestinians are free.
https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0511/1221018-palestine-committee/
"Committee hears of forced displacement in Palestinian territories"
The Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence has heard claims of intimidation and attacks on children by Isreal as part of its expansion of settlement activity in Palestinian territories.
Dr Jilan Abdalmajid, Ambassador, Mission of State of Palestine said that already this year, twelve thousand housing units have been "advanced through plans", in fifty-five Israeli settlements.
An additional "eleven new illegal outposts" have been set up this year, she said.
Only the Nethlerlands took legal action, Dr Abdalmajid added, which "sends a clear message" to the Palestinian people.
"Israel acts with impunity," she said.
"It is an annexation - pure and simple", said Éamonn Meehan, a former Trócaire CEO and a board member of Sadaka, an Irish pro-Palestinian advocacy group.
The committee is examining demolitions and the forced displacement of people in the occupied Palestinian territory.
Re. Palestine / Israel, it is NOT a war .. IF Only One side has an army, navy and air-force and the other does not even have sovereignty! For some further context in history & geography, please also consider:
fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...
Palestinians born in Israel-occupied-since-1967 territories should be treated as citizens of Israel under jus soli as encoded in the U.S. Constitution's 14th Amendment ( which only came into being after much bloodshed in the American Civil War which had yielded the highest [per-capita] death rate of any war in which the [secular Christian-state] U.S.A. had ever fought ) so that most people worldwide can have a state being held accountable by the global community of countries for their well-being. This by-birth citizenship should be the default but not mandatory so as to minimize the number of stateless people without an advocate and/or custodian.
This was the U.S. solution to the problem of slavery. We have lots and lots of guns in Whites' hands for settling differences about our now-threatened White Supremacy under the aegis of our 2nd Amendment of the Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution. Israelis need to own far more guns than they do. Here's a great business opportunity for Ukraine's small-arms manufacturing industry to supply Israeli settlers. Then the Palestinians may buy more guns, too. In gun application, the U.S. merely averaged to slightly more than one mass shooting in a day { the "one-a-day(R)" vitamin for the blood-offering to the Tree of Liberty, as Thomas Jefferson had foretold of how posterity should nurse the tree to produce the fruit of Liberty } so far in this year. A mass shooting is defined as an incident in which four or more people were shot to death. Except for the U.S. southwestern border drug war, there is no war going on in the U.S.A. The war in Afghanistan killed far fewer U.S. personnel than our domestic mass shootings so I really don't see why the U.S. Military can't stay fighting in Afghanistan for the indefinitely long future although it is indeed getting a bit boring over there, unlike the exciting cliff-hanging Israel-Gaza theater engagement.
Ukraine's ruler escaped to a Moscow suburb rather quickly, probably due to Ukrainians voting in their small-arms referendum for Liberty in Maidan.
What's happening in Israel and Gaza is the result of importing Jewish immigrants who need their ancestral Lebensraum ( as the Red Chinese do after their rampant environmental pollution and degradation. ) One can import human wetware but the human software loaded onto it can make a huge difference in the eventual outcome.
This wetware/electronic-hardware dichotomy vexes me. Wetware was right there at the beginning of Life eons ago but a simple electronic device such as a Made-in-China { of course ! } timer died in my kitchen because I touched it with a still-wet finger to stop it from continuing to sound an irritating alarm when I was making something wet. People do wet things in the kitchen. Operating wet-ionics, even something as primitive { or stupid because it emulates a water-head brain and a spinal cord } as a moonbeam jellyfish can swim leisurely in highly electrically conducting seawater without conking out ! Life solved the problem of having electric fire burning slowly in water right from its beginning. The 17-year Homo-genus-version ( and the 13-year Pan-genus-version ) periodical cicadas have a wet-ionic counter for deciding when to emerge en masse, "You will all hear from us soon, loud and clear, this summer: buzz, buzz, buzz; better, stronger, faster than Pootin-invaded Georgian "gone-with-the-wind" Trumpery 2.0 of Goopy Doo." ( What the fuck was Trump doing after the U.S. vaccines had arrived ? Revising U.S. election history, in Japanese comical style, killing many tens of thousands of American citizens by his negligence and dereliction of duty as CIC. ) Although I have electrical impulses on the neurons forming my nerves, I don't have any copper wire under my skin or I can't even get into a governmental building without being bodily searched every time.
It's not my quirkiness to bring an electric-fire-based timer into a kitchen. It's actually due to my desire to coordinate parallel processing and pipeline processing to minimize the processing times ( I use a pressure cooker to reduce energy usage and environmental "footprint" as well as processing time when cooking { toxic if undercooked } beans with rice { with complementary essential-amino-acid profiles; don't envy me or an American because many people can indeed afford this bean and rice if they either build up their own societies' electricity infrastructure and pressure-cooker technology or import these with trade; "ask not what others can do for you; ask what you can do for others;" hopefully and usually reciprocity will make everyone involved prosperous by having taken each other's wishes and desires seriously; money is the customary medium through which this reciprocity is stored and exchanged, but idiotic or greedy states allow money to be degraded via their creation of currency and unrestrained credit, thus killing reciprocity and precipitating societal breakdowns; the Nationalist Party lost China to the Communist Party because according to my Mom who had lived through it all in and near Shanghai, 沪语: 阿拉才是商害人(i.e. 我们都是上海人) the rampant inflation created by the greedy corrupt élite, rendered money worthless, thus turning most ordinary people against it } ) and optimize co-generational ( I can warm up a cup of tea for drinking after-meal with the residual heat from cooking the meal ) efficiency of kitchen tasks. Mistressry/Mastery of chunks of time in a temporal game similar to Tetris is what distinguishes advanced societies from others. Usually less time is used for accomplishing the same tasks, thus corresponding to possibly higher frequencies.
The march of modern cutting-edge technologies to the domain of these higher and higher frequencies is nowhere better illustrated by the world-shaking and possibly world-war starting ( between fascist-CCP Red Fuckgina, democratic ROC sold-out-to-Capitalist-tycoons colluding-with-fascists-on-the-opposite-shore-for-cheap-near-slavery-labor China, and fuck-я Amurica ) area of semiconductor [micro]chip-making human endeavor. Planck-Einstein Equation E=hf, where f is the frequency of the light or electromagnetic radiation used in lithography ( lith=rock and graph=writing, thus the art of [using electromagnetic radiation] to write on rock, usually containing extremely pure silicon or its dioxide; progressing from blue light photolithography, to nowadays DUV or Deep UltraViolet lithography and EUV Extreme UltraViolet lithography,) Photon-Momentum Equation E=pc for electromagnetic radiation govern this march. ( Matter travels at the speed of light as a wave in the fourth dimension, time, orthogonal to the three spatial dimensions. Since we always measure electromagnetic radiation using matter, absorption of the electromagnetic radiation quantizes the measurement, yielding through geometry the four dimensions for energy including both matter and electromagnetic radiation, to travel in; every cycle count of n electromagnetic wave traveling in free space is the sum of squares of four integers.) Thus E=hf=pc, h/p=c/f, l=c/f is the wavelength of the etching electromagnetic radiation which characterizes the etched-feature width [usually on silicon] to be minimized as the Critical Dimension is shrunk and is now about 5nm ( 5 times 10 to the negative-9 meters.) A crux of the New Cold War between fascist China and fuck-я Amurica is the exquisite [re]alignment control of the multiple layers of doped semiconductor etched by the EUV emitted from the laser-light-suspended molten-tin droplet in some of the most expensive machines in the whole world being sold ( at between 100 million to 200 million dollars per machine; the realignment accuracy across multiple layers produces higher yield about 30% more of properly functioning semiconductor microchips and is thus worth more than tons of gold over a typical microchip production run.) Note that at higher and higher frequencies, explicit control requires understanding how to impose exquisitely fine boundaries, spatial/spacial or temporal, possibly aligned by codes. Do you now understand why I brought a timer into my kitchen ? Cooking Chinese-American former-Hong-Konger's "fish 'n chips" in the formerly British-Crown-Colonial-subject's kitchen is akin to making semiconductor [micro]chips -- I dripped the final solution onto the Made-in-China timer. The China Dream is the same as the Lebensraum Dream, both having sprung from an agrarian-societal-background population thrust rapidly with a breakneck speed into modern industrialization and thus experiencing a whiplash of a morality vacuum. Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer ! 神農後裔，炎黃子孫，一黨專政。
Where is the most accurate time standard being kept nowadays and where was it kept before ? The answers help identify the advanced societies of the time which need the accuracy for achieving high productivity and efficiency of processes. Paraphrasing "Time is Money," the profit of time "Leisure is Power." You can tell that I believe in Science because I believe in the reproducibility of successful recipes of arranging tasks represented by their temporal chunks in a Tetris-like game at different junctures.
I will respond tomorrow.
''The apartheid label is beginning to stick — fair or not. It carries with it huge consequences for Israel, which the country’s inward-looking leaders seem impervious to. They have yet to understand that on this new battlefield, tanks don’t count and the use of force, sure to be televised, just plays into the hands of 'the enemy'. It’s a war Israel cannot win unless it makes peace.'' from :
''Losing The Propaganda War'', by Hirsch Goodman : http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/01/opinion/sunday/how-israel-is-losing-the-propaganda-war.html
& http://www.timesofisrael.com/white-house-reportedly-uneasy-with-jewish-lobbying-in-congress/
ad iudicium ...
It sticks because you want it to. The smartest thing that you can do is to grow up before you seek to engage me in any type of discussion.
''Today, this land is one of moral turpitude, a blot on the family’s record, a historic disgrace. In the West Bank, the State of Israel has become an apartheid state, where our children carry out war crimes on our behalf ; where the concept of population transfer has become a reality ; where (in a sickening twist of history) the Jews have become a master race that is on a lofty and well-protected pedestal while The Other – the Palestinian – has no rights, no identity, and can be trampled upon by any soldier, any member of the Shin Bet security service - in fact, by anyone with a blue identity card.'' from :
This is an interesting read and sits well on this thread. The author is the owner of 'The Meishar Winery' in the moshav (semi-cooperative rural settlement) of Meishar in the southern coastal plain near Gedera, Israel and the article was printed under © by Ha'aretz Daily Newspaper Ltd. - with 'All Rights Reserved'.
Perhaps [ http://www.israelallies.org/usa/resources_archive/mp_kenneth_meshoe_on_apartheid/ ] Rev. Ken Meshoe and his patrons and supporters should actually engage with such perspectives before they ply their obfuscations and obscurantism & don't be in any rush to respond GF but just read and reflect.
e tenebris, lux ....
Can Arab-Israeli's vote? Yes they can. Choosing not to vote because of the belief that it would legitimize Israel is not the same as being denied the right to vote. Are there Arab-Israeli poltical parties including a Muslim party? Yes, there are. Are there Arabic doctors, lawyers and teachers? Yes, there are. Do they acquire medical care at the same facilities? Yes, they do. Most importantly is citizenship. Citizenship is offered, has always been offered, and will no doubt continued to be offered. Choosing the status of permanent resident because citizenship would be viewed as legitimizing Israel is very different from being denied citizenship. There is no apartheid.
The land was purchased, Shadz, Most of the land was purchased from wealthy land owners that did not even live in the area. The remaining land was purchased from smaller land owners. Some Arabs whined but sold their land anyway. This became a joke among other Arab nations. Further, the Proclamation of Independence states the following: We appeal - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
We extend our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
A large group of wealthy Arabs left the area, in fear of war, prior to the Proclamation of Independence. The Arab Higher Committee threatened Arabs into leaving by disclosing that those remaining would be considered traitors and murdered. You will remember this committee was headed by Haj Amin al-Husseini. He was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem that was aligned with the Nazis. Israel told them to stay. When they left, Israel asked them to come back.
Kenneth Meshoe is not "really rather well known in certain circles". He is an international figure. Therefore, it is hardly necessary to "glean".
The reference here is to this particular brand of Islam: Hamas Charter of 1988
For your further enlightenment on the above issue please read the following: Hamas Threatens Israel with Genocide Members of Hamas have recently implied that once the balance of power changes, the terror group will commit genocide against Israelis.
Now, the only reason one would dispute the above facts is to deny Israel's right to existence. Thus, if this is what you are doing then it would be wise to say so.
So did Nelson Mandela [RiP] label Israel an ‘apartheid’ regime ? Perhaps not explicitly (as is politic) but shortly after his release from 27 years in prison, Mandela described the Palestinian leader, Yasir Arafat as : “our friend and comrade . . . like us, fighting against a unique form of colonialism.”
These comments were made on February 27, 1990 as Arafat joined Mandela at a pan-African summit & provoked a storm of push-back among Israel’s apologists. The next day, Mandela told a reporter : “If the truth alienates the Jewish community in South Africa, too bad.” Questioned about Mandela’s remarks, Arafat said : “We are in the same trench, struggling against the same enemies, against apartheid, racism, colonialism and neo-colonialism.” & for some further insights, please see :
''These Palestinian and Israeli campaigners for peace know that security for any nation is not abstract; neither is it exclusive. It depends on the security of others; it depends on mutual respect and trust. Indeed, these soldiers of peace know that their destiny is bound together, and that none can be at peace while others wallow in poverty and insecurity.''
For the sake of this discussion, it is really essential that readers click on and listen to your two links in your 'forum-post' very carefully in order to try to understand where Rev. K. Meshoe, his 'African Christian Democrat Party', his interviewers and patrons (& possibly you - as you did post them here) are coming from. It'll be a total of a little over 16 minutes well spent and I thoroughly recommend it to all. However, whatever one thinks of Rev. Meshoe being an ''international figure'', we'll have to agree to regard Nelson Mandela, Archbishop Tutu, Chomsky and Pappe on a somewhat higher plane and in greater esteem.
You expect and wish me to engage with your links but show no indication whatsoever of engaging with any of mine but we'll stumble on here because what you post and where it is from is important - and I would like to think that the same applies to my appended links too, as after all - ''It's all about the truth''.
Sadly, it could be that .. ''Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank. A majority also explicitly favors discrimination against the state's Arab citizens, a survey shows.'' from :
many thanx for your link to ''The Proclamation Of Independence'', from where I quote : ''The catastrophe which recently befell the Jewish people - the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe - was another clear demonstration of the urgency of solving the problem of its homelessness by re-establishing in our Eretz-Israel the Jewish State, which would open the gates of the homeland wide to every Jew and confer upon the Jewish people the status of a fully privileged member of the community of nations.''
However, despite the fraternal lip-service this of course was at the expense of the Palestinian People - Christian and Muslim, already living there. Yes some of the land was sold by absentee landlords but to claim that ''it was purchased'' in entirety is so off the wall and flat wrong as to to be near laughable. As you (and indeed many Americans) seem indifferent to their plight and somewhat ignorant of their history, I will append and recommend the following docs. for some balancing historical context and perspective :
Al-Nakba - Ep. 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7FML0wzJ6A ;
Al-Nakba - Ep. 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2D5Fsd9lg ;
Al Nakba - Ep. 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SKECszemmA &
Al Nakba - Ep. 4 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m__A7MlDrk .
I'd like to think that these videos will play in The USA, however I'm not sure that they will - so would appreciate a heads up if they don't so that I can try to find replacement links via 'vimeo' for example.
I should address the matter of Hamas' charter now but no way am I going to be defending any of that religiously inclined language there. When the PLO was obviated in Gaza by a popular vote, also note though that the dispossessed and desperate had nothing left to hold on to but their defiance. I can not address myself to your final link, which is just propagandist fear mongering for internal (& oft external) consumption from an arm of Israeli State Media and it speaks for itself really, as any readers will note.
There aRe other reasons to dispute your ''facts'' other than ''denying Israel's right to exist'' GF & you may infer what you wish but you can not dictate my language, lol. We should note that though you allude to ''Arab Israelis'', you simply ignore the ever shrinking West Bank and the 'highly concentrated enclave' of The Gaza Strip. There once was an opportunity for Two States but I now believe that a real question will increasingly become (if it has not done so already) : 'Is The Two State Solution Really Still Viable ?'
The abject reduction of Palestinians into what can only be called 'Bantustans', leads me and I am sure others, to wonder as to what would happen if Palestinians dropped all ambitions and pretences towards unviable separate statelets and simply demanded their full, legal, human and democratic rights - in the land of their and their forefathers' birth, in a binational One State, not unlike the solution in South Africa. Finally, tho' of course you'll probably not be looking at them, I append for you and others, the following :
"The Forgotten Palestinians" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCQx47kN6tI by Ilan Pappe ;
"Israel's Sacred Terrorism", by Livia Rokach (A study based on Moshe Sharett's Personal Diary and other documents - foreword by Noam Chomsky) : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20831.htm ;
"It’s time for the media to talk about Zionism", by Philip Weiss : http://mondoweiss.net/2012/12/its-time-for-the-media-to-talk-about-zionism.html ;
"Rabbis for Palestine" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjNJacDvPo ;
http://www.timesofisrael.com/prawer-plan-moves-ahead-despite-pms-freeze-order/ and finally ..
http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ ['Right Click' any and all links to open in new tab or page]
So - ''Now the only reason one would dispute the above facts is to deny'' .. The Palestinian People any semblance of dignity and justice. ''Thus, IF this is what you are doing, then it would be wise to say so'' but far be it for me to put words in your mouth tho' 'two wrongs have NEVER made a right' and there is something fundamentally wrong in making The Palestinians pay for the terrible sins of Europeans, imo. This core injustice is the root of the oppression attested to by so many people, Jew, Arab and Gentile.
e tenebris, lux ...
The Al-Nabka links are viewable here in Canada, though.
Nice to see you back on the forum. Have a nice Christmas!
Oh, I'm never really that far away.
Happy Christmas back to you, Thras.
Have a wonderful time in Copenhagen with family and friends.
Take your vities...and, be good. Heheh.
[Removed]
I feel like buying gifts for some of the forum members here. I'd buy a naughty little toy for shooz. That guy needs some action real bad. Put a little smile on his face, and the whole forum would benefit. He calls himself a "security guard". I guess that might be the problem. Cops, immigration officers, etc... they never seem happy. He's more like a small village mall cop, but still.
Slowly Americans are beginning to realize how advanced censorship is taking place in our country.
don't they want their privacy protected ?
"don't they want their privacy protected ?" Good question.
It's not so much that people don't want their privacy protected, or that they don't want to have the information they receive censored.
I think it's just they expect someone else to pick up the baton while they concentrate on watching Dancing With The Stars.
Many other apolitical people just cannot see the ominous trends that have been developing and where they will lead.
And then some people just don't have the time to follow what is going on, since most of their waking hours are spent on surviving in an ever-increasing hostile (for the 99%) World.
Plays in Canada & Europe ! But not in USA !! VERY disturbing !!!
Al-Nakba P1&2 : http://vimeo.com/22210862
Al-Nakba P3&4 : http://vimeo.com/22213852
Good luck with these links above. Solidarity. Viva T'InterWeb ~{:-)
fiat lux ...
Thanks. These two 2-part Vimeo links do play here unlike the four single part YouTube links. I have not had the chance to view them yet 'cause I've been doing a lot of family stuff, but they are #1 on my list.
You're very welcome and if I may perhaps suggest a #2 to you too :
Though regrettable if not revealing, I really do appreciate your confirmation from Colorado of my fears re. those 'You Tube' links and my very best wishes to you and your family for Xmas, Yule and New Year.~.
pax, amor et lux ...
first they sent the puritans to the new world
then they sent the prisoners to austrialia
then they sent the jews o israel
I think we would have been better off with the "prisoners."
Actually, the Brits sent convicts to America long before they sent them to Australia.
Georgia I was taught
New England, and some were sold as slaves to the Southern states.
Plays okay in Australia, as well.
Hmmm, quite telling, this bit of internet censorship is.
A Canadian friend often says my links won't open at her end.
The web is most certainly being corporatised. Such a shame.
Need that BRiCS cable, and we need it now. www.bricscable.com/
"Links Russia, China, India, South Africa, Brazil – the BRICS economies – and the United States."
Call me a hard-core skeptic, but something about that last part makes it all suspect. I thought it originally was supposed to exclude the US.
Ah yes, but there will be no way for an external party to gain control over the cable.
I'm a-gonna read some on that link of yours. Hopefully the US is indeed an "external party." You know what happens when they get their fingers into something.
No doubt there's hackers already figuring out how to corner some action on it.
That's human nature, damn it. LOL.
Ever heard of "war-driving"?
There's some old-school hacking for ya. :-)
Michigan's not in the US anymore?
Very strange to hear that.
Do I still have to pay my US taxes?
If memory serves me right, Michigan is being turned into a Neoliberal Playground and sadly into an almost foreign part of The U$A & links to the forced dispossession of others, elsewhere, too - here :
fiat justitia ...
The actual point being, that I can see those vids quite well here in Michigan, so I have to wonder where you got your information.
Michigan, is under thumb of libe(R)tarians/(R)epelicans and teabaagge(R)s, so you painted that with a rather broad, inaccurate brush.
これらの日、ソープオペラのどうですか？
Don't be so tetchy, lol. I think that I got your point and I also drew a few distant parallels as per the subject matter of this thread, however - if you prefer the parallels somewhat closer ... here you go :
ad iudicium ...
Where did you get the idea that those vids couldn't be viewed in the US?
I completely reject ANY, comparisons to Rosa. Including but not limited to the Duck dynasty bullshit.
There are NO comparisons in the modern World.
She was a real original
I got the idea they did not play in The USA from other posters. You can and will, reject what you wish. I have zero, zilch, zip idea WTF ''the Duck dynasty bullshit'' is but if you're looking for an argument - read the link I provided and then I'll be your huckleberry and here's an excerpt from it for openers :
''Liberals bring this same limited scope to their understanding of Israel / Palestine and their range of solutions for the conflict exposes grave ideological contradictions. Of course, Palestinians deserve equal rights, liberals proclaim, but fundamental questions about the very nature of Israel and its foundation remain taboo. Those who oppose the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state are quickly labeled anti-semites.
''Liberals balk at racism within Israeli society but the roots of that racism go unexamined. Religion and State should be kept separate, say the liberals, but theocratic and overtly racist Israeli political parties continue to grow. For the foreseeable future Israeli politics will increasingly ruffle liberal sensibilities, but the liberal frame will continue to view Palestinian oppression as an understandable, if regrettable, blip in Israel’s democratic journey.'' & also fyi :
e tenebris, lux ...
Hmmmm. Don't believe everything you hear.
Since you are in the "Isles", soon you will have to believe even less of what you hear.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/20/rupert-murdochs-news-corporation-buys-social-news-agency-storyful/
It's a FLAKESnews/libe(R)tarian, fucked up kind of World these days and it's getting worse, not better.
Heb je ze voor de terugkeer van je ziel nog gevraagd?
The Al-Nakba 'You-Tube' links were what I was referring to. We went down the tangential road of your misapprehension as I replaced them with vimeo links. So gno is right and so can you be ... if you can confirm that the 'You-Tube' Al-Nakba links play in Michigan, USA. Thank you in anticipation of a reply.
ad iudicium ...
The message is from the uploader, meaning it's not state censorship.
That's the point I'm trying to make.
He's not talking about the Vimeo links, which do play here. He's talking about the YouTube links in this comment:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/mandela-legislator-arabs-misappropriate-apartheid-/#comment-1015145
He answered this for himself, but that's not what he said.
At any rate, it's pretty inflammatory to pretend a broken youtube=state censorship, and that was my point.
I'm well aware that many here don't give fuck about what happens in the States.........
In a way.......that's a form of censorship by omission.
In other omitted information.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017166151
As well as an essay that comes close to mirroring my "opinion" on the subject of this thread.
http://interoccupy.net/blog/a-letter-from-elliot-sperber-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-at-the-xxvii-guadalajara-international-book-fair/
"He answered this for himself, but that's not what he said.
At any rate, it's pretty inflammatory to pretend a broken youtube=state censorship, and that was my point."
So, what you're saying is those YouTube clips DON'T play in Michigan, correct?
It's blocked by the uploader.
Such things can be done for propaganda purposes, or to drive viewership elsewhere........= marketing.
Take your choice.
what it's not, is state censorship.
[Removed]
Yassar Arafat and Gaddafi financially supported the ANC. Gaddafi went so far as to tell Mandela to distance himself from the South African Jews. Mandela refused. In 1990, Mandela, in Geneva, said that he supported Israel had a right to exist but wanted the pre1967 borders, and he understood about security issues AND he believed that the way to solve the issue must come from Israel and the Palestinians.
So, let me clear some up a few things for you real quick. There is no apartheid and, apparently, you are aware that there is none but intend to use it as an emotional tactic. Let me bring you up to date because there is more at stake than you realize.
The only reason that Jordan and Israel will ever go to war is over water. Israel, Jordan, PA sign trilateral agreements to 'swap' and share water. Now, does Hamas reject this agreement on environmental concerns? Does Hamas recognize the need for water for the Palestinian population? Does Hamas point out that the World Bank cannot be trusted? Nope. So what is their rational? You will find that here on the Al Qassam website.
As you are aware there is a time line for peace negotiations(a framework) to be completed by April. Hamas rejects this, although there is 4 billion dollars in aid to be gifted to the Palestinians. From 2006 until two days ago there has been a definite split between Hamas and the PA. Bets are being taken on how long that is going to last. However, there is finally talk of elections. Hamas considers the negotiations to be unilateral. Naftali Bennett is also pessimistic about the peace talks that are unilateral. You will find that in the following article: Bennett: Any peace agreement that excludes Hamas is ‘a joke’
Now, about that 4 billion in aid: As Kerry announced in May, there is a $4 billion dollar reward waiting for the Palestinians if they reach an agreement. More recently, during his speech at the American Task Force on Palestine, the White House’s Middle East Coordinator Phil Gordon noted that an urgent goal was “stabilizing the Palestinian Authority’s finances.” The US has already contributed $348 million this year, he said.
To be sure the Palestinians need the funds to help build a better future, but what they also need is better guidance on how to spend those funds. As I document in my new book, State of Failure: Yasser Arafat, Mahmoud Abbas and the Unmaking of the Palestinian State, peace-makers across multiple administrations now lament the fact that the Palestinians were never held to account for squandering billions of dollars in aid since the creation of the Palestinian Authority in 1994.
Ambassador Dennis Ross, who spearheaded the peace efforts for president Bill Clinton noted, “we should have been focused on the state-building enterprise…We didn’t really focus on that until, in effect, after the collapse of Oslo…” He now notes, for example, that business practices must change. “People need to get contracts based on a legitimate process, not based on favoritism,” he said.
Aaron David Miller, who worked closely with Ross, recounts that Washington often turned a blind eye to other abuses of power, so long as the Palestinians remained committed to the diplomatic track. “State security courts and human rights abuses? Terrible. But you’ve got to keep the peace process alive. Corruption? Terrible. But you’ve got to keep the peace process alive.” Miller laments that Washington’s approach was transactional, rather than transformational.
Elliot Abrams, who served as an advisor to George W. Bush, recalls that the problem of mismanagement and poor governance was well known to the administration, but he cedes that “on corruption, we never had a program. We did not have a five-point plan.”
As diplomats labored to placate Palestinian leaders with the goal of simply getting a peace deal done, it was the Palestinian street that began to demand reform. Remarkably, these demands coincided with the eruption of the Second Intifada in 2000. Even amidst the ongoing war with Israel, Palestinians strived to implement cleaner governance. For example, they worked to centralize Palestinian president Yasser Arafat’s many bank accounts. That was when the PA’s then-Finance Minister Salam Fayyad, hailed for his common sense reforms and institution building, came onto the scene.
Ross praised the efforts of reformist prime minister Salam Fayyad, who made sure the PA would “stop paying the security guys from paper bags in cash, and letting them skim off the top.”
And Ross was not alone. “Fayyadism,” a term coined by New York Times columnist Tom Friedman, steadily gained the confidence of the West. But tensions soon surfaced between Fayyad and Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, ultimately leading to the reformer’s ouster in April of this year.
Thanks in large part to Fayyad’s efforts, the Palestinian Authority functions better as a bureaucracy, but the reports of mismanagement and abuses of power continue to mount. A recent European Union audit, for example, revealed that the P.A. may have “misspent” $3.13 billion in financial aid between 2008 and 2012.
Mr. Abbas, meanwhile, is now four years past the end of his presidential term, with no elections in sight. Meanwhile, his government has quashed protests against him, and made criticism of him– in mainstream media and social media alike – an offense that could lead to jail time.
In other words, the Palestinian Authority appears to be suffering from the same endemic corruption and abuses of power that existed during the Arafat days. Today, administration officials continue to ignore the Palestinian struggle for good governance. In other words, Washington now appears only too willing to enter into another transactional relationship, at the expense of a transformational one. Link
The propaganda that exists regarding the sale of the land is not that it was sold. It was. It is that the land belongs to the people that worked it. Do you understand this?
Even so, there is no apartheid.
Expression of the term "Apartheid" has been used to describe Israel's policies by a variety of prominent individuals including, amongst others anti-apartheid campaigner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Prof. Noam Chomsky, Israeli academics like Prof. Ilan Pappe, left wing members of Israel's parliament, Palestinian human rights campaigners and many, many people around the world - who fundamentally believe in ....
Comparing the Bantustan policy to Israel's creation of Palestinian ghettos in the Occupied Palestinian Territories shows the similarity of Zionist agenda to the racist ambitions of the South African apartheid regime. Enclaves in the West Bank are defined by : The Segregation Wall ; Jewish colonies ; by pass roads ; Israeli military orders and land restrictions etc.The Palestinian ghettos like the 'Bantustans',are designed specifically to separate the native population from their land and resources and to enable the growth of Israeli settlements.
In addition to this, the creation of enclaves surrounded by Israeli territory enables enhanced monitoring while also acting as captive markets for Israeli goods & services. Your simply saying that : ''there is no apartheid'' does not make it so - but neither does my asserting that there is. Thus, readers will have to look to the strength of the arguments & the quality of the links & so, further to The UN link above, see :
The origins of Israeli Apartheid date back a long way but let us just for argument's sake limit it to the occupation of West Bank and Gaza. Colonization of these areas immediately raised the question of what to do with the native inhabitants, who would be acting as an obstacle to any colonial expansion, while also presenting a perceived negative demographic impact to Israel's hallowed 'Jewish character'.
Up until the fist Intifada, The Zionist Elites did not even attempt to comprehensively address the Arab question. For instance the mass forced transfer of Palestinians like in 1948, was discussed but was ultimately not adopted. Instead Israel preferred to ignore the presence of Arabs and continue building settlements and appropriating resources, attempting to create "positive" conditions in the OPT for the continued 'Out Migration' of Palestinians, particularly in East Jerusalem and along all of Israel's border regions. In this sense, it could be argued that apartheid has not been an official policy of the State of Israel but instead it has gradually manifested in The OPT as the logical conclusion to Zionist colonial ambitions, which wants the land without the people.
The international crime of apartheid and the subsequent 'Apartheid Convention' was modelled on - but not limited to, the South African apartheid system. See :
http://legal.un.org/avl/ha/cspca/cspca.html ;
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/761C1063530766A7052566A2005B74D1 &
https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201015/volume-1015-I-14861-English.pdf .
Up to and including today, Israel is guilty of committing various crimes in order to forcibly displace The Palestinian People from Palestine. Israel’s crimes such as 'Apartheid', persecution et al, as well as its permanent occupation and annexation / colonization - are intended to create an unbearable situation in order to expel the indigenous Palestinian population. This continuous & very calculated targeting of The Palestinian People must be challenged by the international community .. just as it was regarding South Africa. This is why I and so many others hold with the use of the word ''Apartheid'' re. Israel & The OPT.
I have provided 5 links above to support my case.You too provided 5 links which you embedded in your text without the urls showing. Thus for others - I am obliged to be a little clearer when it comes to your links and so, in order of your use of them, I append but can not really quite recommend, the following :
http://www.jpost.com/Enviro-Tech/Exclusive-Israel-Jordan-PA-to-sign-trilateral-water-swap-sales-agreements-334505 ;
http://www.qassam.ps/news-7799-Hamas_condemns_agreement_linking_Red_Sea_with_Dead_Sea.html ;
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/175234#.UrMUIOK7YbI ;
http://www.timesofisrael.com/bennett-any-peace-agreement-that-excludes-hamas-is-a-joke/ &
http://www.jewishexponent.com/the-palestinians-and-their-state-of-failure !!!
I don't really know what to say now, so I'll let the 'objective truth' (or as near as I can get to it) speak for itself. Your reply is ~90% copied and pasted from that last link above !!! Right from your Point 3, Line 1 - {''As Kerry announced in May ...''} to the third line from the very end of your reply ['' ... at the expense of a transformational one.'']. As such I also believe (but can't show) that your very first paragraph as well as points 1 & 2 are also substantially 'copy/pasted' ! Thus, it now seems to me that ONLY your 2nd (three line) paragraph and your final 3 lines are your own words !! So, who exactly are you speaking for ?!!!
I am under no obligation to reply to this deviation from your own original forum-post re. that ''international figure'', Rev. Ken Meshoe or your attempts at making some nebulous points or outright obfuscation and frankly, I do feel more than a little despoiled - not to mention disappointed, by having perused your links.
Are you really referencing, the armed wing of Hamas ; ''Naftali Bennet'' and ''Jonathan Shanzer'' from the Neocon 'stink-tank' - '' The Foundation for Defense of Democracies'' (all very right-wing) so as to back up your 'arguments' ?!!! Seriously ?!! Are you for real ?! I'm appalled and speechless really & here's why ...
http://www.defenddemocracy.org/ ;
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Foundation_for_Defense_of_Democracies ;
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Foundation_for_the_Defense_of_Democracies &
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/naftali-bennett-kill-arabs_n_3670767.html +
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftali_Bennett & http://baityehudi.org.il/englp/natali.htm .
If you want to be a mouthpiece for Right-Wing-Nut, Neocon & Zionist propaganda AND help to show the connection between these - then please, be my guest BUT do NOT 'ass-u-me' that I will not be pointing out that matter for others ! I called you a ''conservative-liberal'' once in a PM (not long before you lost the plot, melted-down and forced me to write you a poem) but now I see that tho' you have 'liberal-ish' social views, you are really quite right-wing !! I said that I believed that you were predominantly for The 99% not so long ago but I may be wrong and I 'mos def' have to qualify that by saying that you are .. 'Possibly for The 99% - so long as they aren't Palestinians, Arabs or The 20% of humans, who are Muslims' !!! ~Sigh
I don't know how long I've been typing for & need a break, food, water and a =======##~~' - but maybe in the reverse order now. I am shocked - SHOCKED - @ u GF ... or maybe .. I'm not ;-) but in any case, as I am not anticipating a reply that I can engage with (though of course you could surprise me in which case I'll try to reply to you), I will leave you with the following links, for a wider and different perspective & I can't recommend these sites highly enough to all those who believe in Love & universal human dignity :
http://jfjfp.com/ ;
http://mikopeled.com/ ;
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ ;
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/ &
http://www.annainthemiddleeast.com/index.html .
Finally (we'll both be glad to note) I append and thoroughly recommend these three items ; the first and second are self-explanatory & the third is my most charitable take at explaining Rev.K.Meshoe's views :
''On the Future of Israel and Palestine - An Interview with Prof. Ilan Pappé and Prof. Noam Chomsky'', by Frank Barat : http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/06/06/an-interview-with-ilan-papp-eacute-and-noam-chomsky/ ;
''A Basic History of Zionism And Its Relation to Judaism'', by Hanna Braun : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12666.htm &
''Christian Zionism : The Heresy that Undermines Middle East Peace'', by Rev. Dr Stephen Sizer : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35747.htm .
fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...
I will address your wall of shit tomorrow.
Hmmm - but no more Neocon propagandist piffle tho' please & also consider John Pilger's words in :
''Conversations on Palestine : The Role and Failure of Journalism'', by Frank Barat : http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/19011-conversations-on-palestine-the-role-and-failure-of-journalism and also see the excellent analysis contained here :
''Rosa Parks Syndrome in Palestine'', by Avi Asher-Schapiro : http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/15251-rosa-parks-syndrome-in-palestine .
This is Occupy Wall Street, where many of us have sympathy and solidarity - with The Occupied !!!
multum in parvo ...
I get the impression the Palestinian people understand full-well the true meaning of the word "apartheid."
Farming Under Occupation, by Anna Lekas Miller: http://truth-out.org/news/item/11938
"Israel is also symbolically asserting its physical control over Palestinian land and natural resources through the infamous Separation Barrier—known among Palestinians as the Apartheid Wall. Originally, the Separation Barrier—which upon completion will be a 470 mile long wall and fence physically separating Israel from the Palestinian territories—was erected for security reasons. In practice, it is used to further segregate Israelis and Palestinians and reassert what land is Israeli and what land is Palestinian.
Unlike most man-made borders, the Separation Barrier does not follow a smooth line. It is jagged, as if it were following a river or a mountain range as its border. It is not. Instead, it is meticulously jaggedly drawn in a way that puts the most arable land and plentiful natural resources are on the West (Israeli) side of the wall, while relegating the meager leftovers for the East (Palestinian) side."
''For Palestinians, owning land is not only an essential component of their livelihoods, but also a point of pride. Land is passed down through generations—sowing seed in the land and reaping the harvest is a cultural ritual that honors the family and ones identity and heritage as a Palestinian. When Palestinian land is stolen and starved, it is not simply Palestinian livelihoods that are being attacked but also centuries of Palestinian tradition, identity and honor.''
Sigh. Thanx for your strong comment and link, which I recommend to any and all readers. Sometimes the mind boggles at the inability or unwillingness of some, to feel empathy for others' plight but karma will always trump dogma in the end [ http://www.annainthemiddleeast.com/index.html ] ~*~
spero et ommm mane padme hummm ...
Hmmm, apparently that wall was built with US tax dollars, but why am I not surprised? That series of photos on that page is literally worth a thousand words, and I found that Newsweek cover quite interesting as it dovetails well with the series of Time covers posted here a while back from DailyKos. The average American is kept very much in the dark about world affairs, sadly, but I have to wonder why? Why is it that publications like Time and Newsweek have no problem posting important articles about world affairs in their Asian and European versions but feel the need to censor their American counterpart?
It seems the situation in the Middle East is a subject close to your heart, and my apologies for getting off on a bit of a tangent. Hey, this reminds me, I wonder what happened to Bensdad? I haven't seen him in weeks.
There are a few things which might be considered ... ''close to my heart'' but mainly one (and she knows who she is) and the rest is mainly variations on the theme of The 99%. US MSM is Corporate Controlled & essentially 'Conservative' with a li'l 'LiberalWash' applied & here are couple of links for your perusal 'g' :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6435.htm &
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37191.htm !!
I wish I could pretend that I was curious about bensdad too but I can't but happy hols to u & yours tho'.
pax, amor et lux ...
I second those feeling about BD/EW/Mideast or whatever else he chose to call himself. It's just a bit puzzling, that's all. Kinda like my best bud VQ, heheh.
I'll be checking out your links before the evening is thru, just as soon as I catch up a couple things. And since it's getting quite close now, I'd like to extend my holiday wishes of peace and goodwill to you, your people, and "she who is close to your heart." Unless I see her on this forum, in which case I'll tell her myself. ;-)
'' THE LOST OWS NEWS ARTICLE RE. GAZA '' :
Here, appended fyi. It was put out and then ''pulled'' over a year ago but not before some here saved it for posterity. ''She'' reads here often and maybe half the stuff I do is to try to keep impressing her, lol. Merry ChristMash, Jolly Yule & a Happy New Year 'g' - be well, warm and aware & the same be to all readers.
pax ...
Two freaks run the show: AP and Reuters.
Control what the people there decide is news, and the rest is main stream dribble.
Hence our new found obsession with some duck freak. Can't wait to see whats next!
What are the chances the establishment can find some mildly known idiot that says something offensive in another month?
Look anywhere in congress.
Oh, that's right; wrong demographic for general public viewing.
Wrong demographic. Perhaps that's part of the problem.
I'm pretty convinced the whole Duck Dynasty "debacle" is manufactured from top to bottom. Scripted scandal, scripted response, scripted soon-to-be resolution. And as you know, all designed to keep the rubes focused away from the real issues. TPP what??
Next stop: Kendall Jenner sex tape. Or Lohan back in rehab.
Of course it was. Total button-pushing excercise.
NDAA gets shunted through, and the MIC gets another trillion to toss around.
It's easier than bobbing for apples in a barrel.
Imagine that. After WWII the banksters go in and carve the place up, after funding both sides of the war.
Dont believe me? Go ask Prescott Bush.
You know I believe it. Rumor has it the banksters have been playing both sides for a very long time now.
What propaganda piffle? You mean the link to Hamas statements, no? Of course you did. Never mind that you could have just as easily opened up the link to their website-which was also provided for you- and looked for yourself.
Having sympathy and solidarity does not mean that your brain is put on the back burner and you attempt to silence what you cannot respond to.. You like to run and hide behind analysis simply because you aren't capable of utilizing critical thinking. Further, you are attempting to hide behind OWS for something a bit more sinister: anti Israel delegitimizing campaign. That would be your wall of shit. The same type of wall of shit that you have utilized on the news section of this site.
That's your problem--not mine.
Unlikely right-left partnership floated to oppose Bedouin resettlement They can’t agree on the project’s goal. They can’t agree on who supports it. They can’t even agree on its name.
But when it comes to the Israeli government’s plan to relocate 30,000 Negev Bedouin, representatives and allies of the Bedouin community agree with the right wing on one thing: the Prawer plan must be stopped.
At a meeting this week, leaders of an alliance between Negev Bedouin and several left-wing groups adopted a proposal to join with “right-wing opponents” of a bill that would relocate tens of thousands of Bedouin from their homes in unrecognized villages in southern Israel. The plan calls for moving the Bedouin into recognized towns nearby with modern services and amenities while providing them with partial compensation for their property.
“You need to have an elementary school, kindergarten and health care at the center of the modern community,” said Doron Almog, director of the Headquarters for Economic and Community Development of the Negev Bedouin in the Prime Minister’s Office. “We’d like to replace poverty with modernity.”
The plan is alternatively referred to as Begin-Prawer or Prawer after its two authors — former Knesset member Benny Begin and Ehud Prawer, the director of planning in the Prime Minister’s Office. It would recognize some of the unrecognized villages while moving the inhabitants of others.
The government says the plan is a comprehensive land reform measure aimed at providing infrastructure, education and employment opportunities to the historically underserved Bedouin population in the South. But critics of the proposal point to the 30,000-40,000 Bedouin that would be uprooted in what they claim is just the latest move by the government to strip them of their land to create space for Jewish settlement.
“We want rights like everyone else,” said Attia Alasam, the head of the Regional Council of Unrecognized Villages. “The state doesn’t see that the Bedouin have problems. They see the Bedouin as the problem. The state can’t put people on trucks and spill them into towns.”
The fight over the plan has been contentious. Protests across Israel have left several Israeli police officers injured and led to dozens of arrests. Several human rights groups have blasted the plan. Last week, Arab lawmakers appealed to U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, asking him to block what they allege amounts to “ethnic cleansing” of the Bedouin.
It’s far from certain that the partnership proposal will come to fruition, but the effort represents a rare attempt at pragmatic compromise in a debate that has been dominated by dueling perceptions of reality.
At the meeting — representatives of the Arab-Jewish political party Hadash, the Regional Council of Unrecognized Villages and the Negev Coexistence Forum for Civic Equality attended — Alasam and others sounded optimistic that they could find common ground with right-wing activists even though their ultimate objectives are almost certainly incompatible.
Alasam wants the government to allow the Bedouin to stay in the unrecognized villages. Right-wing activists believe the Bedouin have no right to stay where they are. Their issue with the plan is that it’s too vague on specifics — the government has presented no map outlining exactly who it plans to relocate, and to where — and amounts to an overly generous payout to Bedouin that, in this view, have been squatting illegally for decades.
Moshe Feiglin, the head of the Jewish Leadership faction of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, voted against the plan because it “hands the Negev over to the Arabs.” Zvulun Kalfa of the Jewish Home party opposes the bill because it’s too vague.
That’s also the objection of Ari Briggs, the director of international relations for Regavim, a right-wing organization that wants to protect Israel’s lands from “foreign elements” and compel state bodies “to act based on the fundamental principles of Zionism.” Briggs says the plan is not specific enough about the final boundaries of recognized villages.
“The only reason we need to solve those land claims is so the Bedouin can move into those cities,” Briggs said. If the law doesn’t address the unrecognized villages, he added, “We haven’t solved anything.”
Knesset member Miri Regev, who heads the committee debating the bill, echoed that criticism last week when she criticized Almog for not presenting her committee with a proposed map of Negev towns.
“I think the time has come to organize Bedouin settlement,” Regev wrote on Facebook last week. “It’s unlikely that the Bedouin are taking over the Negev’s lands, and given that, the solution needs to be formulated deliberatively and in a way that’s transparent to all sides.”
Note the opposition within the Knesset that led to the freeze to begin with.
Then it was decided to go forward even under the freeze.
Bedouin relocation plan moves ahead despite freeze order
So, nobody knows what is being altered and if the changes that are made will appeal to the Bedouins-yet.
Finally, I would like you to see a response from Chomsky regarding the academic boycott. I do believe that you are capable of grasping the content although you may not show it and how it relies to all actions:
NC:You can’t agree or disagree, it’s meaningless. In the case of any tactic, you ask yourself, what are its consequences, ultimately for the victims, and indirectly for the audience you are trying to reach. So you ask, do the people I am trying to reach see this as a step towards undercutting US policy and freeing the Palestinians or do they see this tactic as a reason to strengthen their support for US policy and attacking the Palestinians. That’s the question you ask when you carry out any tactic, whether it is disobedience, breaking bank windows, demonstrations, whatever it is. Those are the questions you ask if you care about the victims, if you don’t care about the victims, you won’t bother with these questions and you just do what makes you feel good link
So, what is it Shadz? You want to solve issues or do what makes you feel good?
.
'You like to run and hide behind analysis simply because you aren't capable of utilizing compassionate thinking. Further, you are attempting to hide behind OWS for something a bit more sinister : Pro-Israeli and a Palestinian delegitimizing campaign. That would be your world of shit. The same type of world of shit that you have utilized on the news section of this site. That's your problem -- and ours.' Hmmm ....
See what did there 'GirlCut&Paste' ?!!! You expect that we should open, explore and engage with your links but show NO inclination to do that to any links provided TO you !! One of your problems is that I looked at and examined your links & found them to be ''propagandist piffle'' from arch US Neocons and Ultra-Right-Wing Israelis, like Naftali Bennet but I have NO truck with Hamas tho' I did open that link !
You are self exposed as a Likudnik shill and plagiarist. I question your concessions to The Powers That Be, in Israel & The US ; your various levels of xenophobia ; your use of sources and basically your bona fides. I am increasingly disinclined to speak to you but I will still talk at you and beyond you & use your ''propagandist piffle'' to put the other side. I do not believe that I can solve anything but I can try to bring the antiseptic of some light to bear on matters and that is all I will only ever really continue to try to do :
fiat lux ...
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
You got nothing. You have failed to address the issues again. Believe me when I tell you this-you aren't ready to address the issues and if you decided not to respond to any of my posts, I would not give a damn.
Noam Chomsky: There can be no definite answer to such questions. There are similarities and differences. Within Israel itself, there is serious discrimination, but it’s very far from South African Apartheid. Within the occupied territories, it’s a different story. In 1997, I gave the keynote address at Ben-Gurion University in a conference on the anniversary of the 1967 war. I read a paragraph from a standard history of South Africa. No comment was necessary.
Looking more closely, the situation in the OT differs in many ways from Apartheid. In some respects, South African Apartheid was more vicious than Israeli practices, and in some respects the opposite is true. To mention one example, White South Africa depended on Black labor. The large majority of the population could not be expelled. At one time Israel relied on cheap and easily exploited Palestinian labor, but they have long ago been replaced by the miserable of the earth from Asia, Eastern Europe, and elsewhere. Israelis would mostly breathe a sigh of relief if Palestinians were to disappear. And it is no secret that the policies that have taken shape accord well with the recommendations of Moshe Dayan right after the 1967 war : Palestinians will "continue to live like dogs, and whoever wishes may leave." More extreme recommendations have been made by highly regarded left humanists in the United States, for example Michael Walzer of the Institute for Advanced Studies in Princeton and editor of the democratic socialist journal Dissent, who advised 35 years ago that since Palestinians are "marginal to the nation," they should be "helped" to leave. He was referring to Palestinian citizens of Israel itself, a position made familiar more recently by the ultra-right Avigdor Lieberman, and now being picked up in the Israeli mainstream. I put aside the real fanatics, like Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, who declares that Israel never kills civilians, only terrorists, so that the definition of "terrorist" is "killed by Israel"; and Israel should aim for a kill ratio of 1000 to zero, which means "exterminate the brutes" completely. It is of no small significance that advocates of these views are regarded with respect in enlightened circles in the US, indeed the West. One can imagine the reaction if such comments were made about Jews.
On the query, to repeat, there can be no clear answer as to whether the analogy is appropriate
[-] 1 points by flip (4055) 4 minutes ago
if you do not want to have any kind of reasonable conversation why do you keep responding ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
What are you going on about? I'm ready when you are. You're the one that insisted in demanding my allegiance to one or the other before engaging.
ok, I am officially bored - thanks, now I can back to doing things that are more interesting and productive - that would be like anything other than this
[-] 1 points by flip (4054) 2 minutes ago
ok, you have answered my question - thanks. we agree to some extent - disagree on the most recent issues it seems. let's be clear - not sure who "you folks" are or what they think but you do not know what I think because you have not asked. I have no reason to pick a fight with you and I stopped coming here for long periods because of this attitude. counter productive. you do not have the "truth" so how about getting of the high horse and discussing this with me. if not ok - then I have had enough. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
I don't buy it.
and what exactly are you not buying?
Let me give you a little Chomsky. This is where I am at: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1973/jun/14/appeal-for-peace-in-the-middle-east/
I firmly believe that the Palestinians were wrongly nailed from the 1970s til 2006 as a whole. PLO aside. Like I said, Ariel Sharon did something completely different from where his position was that when he did a unilateral withdrawal from Gaza and, initially, we did not believe it was possible. Nobody thought that he was going to dismantle the settlements either. Acknowledgement of this ≠ teddy bear. Bad Israel backed by the bad US.
Some of these idiots are under the impression that the US does what Israel wants. Wrong. Israel is a client state. Egypt was a client state of the former Soviet Union. Syria is a client state of Russia. Korea should have never been divided but North Korea is a client state of whom?
In 2006, my attitude changed due to two events. Hamas was elected. I, like many others, said, "Ok, you claim to be freedom fighters and you want to sit at the grown ups table. Let's see what you got." Except they didn't really wanna.
Where do you think Hezbollah acquired their weapons from? Any takers? Hezbollah liked to fire katyusha rockets and then run and hide behind regular folks. Let's try Russia and Iran who do business with China and it's shipped via Syra. You will notice that it is Russia, Iran, China and Hezbollah who are backing Assad in this civil war. You know this, right? You do realize that Hamas is aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood, right? You realize that the Muslim Brotherhood backs Morsi, right? The same Muslim Brotherhood that initiated extreme violence towards the protestors in Egypt?
It's called a proxy war. And either you folks are unaware or are excusing terrorist activity. It's unacceptable. The only reasons that you folks have for pretending that this activity isn't happening is that you might have to think about how it coincides with what you want to believe or you are flat out ignorant and have no knowledge about proxy wars and regional conflicts. I do not believe it is the latter.
ok, you have answered my question - thanks. we agree to some extent - disagree on the most recent issues it seems. let's be clear - not sure who "you folks" are or what they think but you do not know what I think because you have not asked. I have no reason to pick a fight with you and I stopped coming here for long periods because of this attitude. counter productive. you do not have the "truth" so how about getting of the high horse and discussing this with me. if not ok - then I have had enough.
the military killed many muslim brotherhood protester
after the military coup of egypt
There is a clear answer. No apartheid ≠ no discrimination. Oddly enough in that very same interview, Chomsky points out that Hamas should remove parts of their charter. In addition, he also points out correctly that every time they attack (via bombs or rockets or flat out murders) they hand over to Israel the right to bomb the hell out of them.
Noam Chomsky: My opinion all along has been that the Palestinian leadership is offering Israel and its US backers a great gift by resorting to violence and posturing about revolution -- quite apart from the fact that, tactical considerations aside, resort to violence carries a very heavy burden of justification. Today, for example, nothing is more welcome to Israeli and US hawks than Qassam rockets, which enable them to shriek joyously about how the ratio of deaths should be increased to infinity (all victims being defined as "terrorists").
I have also agreed all along with personal friends who had contacts with the Palestinian leadership (in particular, Edward Said and Eqbal Ahmad) that a non-violent struggle would have had considerable prospects for success. And I think it still does, in fact the only prospects for success. link
I agree with noam and maybe you that non violence is a better strategy. you do notice that he is talking about "the prospects for success" - you realize what he means by success I assume- do you have the same goal? he also said this -"Of course they're terrorists and there's been Palestinian terrorism all the way through. I have always opposed it. I oppose it now. But it's very small as compared with the US-backed Israeli terrorism
[-] 2 points by flip (4055) 20 minutes ago
and what exactly are you not buying? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
The entire thing.
if you do not want to have any kind of reasonable conversation why do you keep responding
[Removed]
right peace must be permanent
not on a time table
[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16232) 27 minutes ago
the military killed many muslim brotherhood protester
after the military coup of egypt ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
How unfortunate. Let me weigh the options here: feel bad for a group of individuals that have mass quantities of cash in real estate and financially support scantily clad female singers of their choosing that does a hypocritical suppression of anything secular and has them thrown into jail for blasephemy.............while supporting terrorists.
Not feeling it.
i know
who eats this propaganda ?
they're animals anyway
A lot of them are young men that are wrapped up in ideology. That ideology has been used as a violent weapon towards protestors (and non protestors) including sexual assault. That said, I am watching the media try to rewrite history and pretending as if Morsi is somehow divorced from the Muslim Brotherhood. He isn't. And this right here is probably key: http://www.egyptindependent.com//news/banking-officials-government-still-faces-foreign-cash-reserve-drop
Exactly.
http://www.haaretz.com/business/.premium-1.562054
http://www.bje.org.au/learning/judaism/calendar/shmittah.html?NSID=AqHED2
And?
The combination of the amount of money that can't be accounted for on top of the rest of the countries that have been forced into austerity measures is going to create a backlash. Not from Israel, from the rest of the world.
[Removed]
Nice re-vomitting of state sponsored history.
Lets here your take on pilgrims and "indians" sharing a nice meal and making friends too :)
"The propaganda that exists regarding the sale of the land is not that it was sold. It was. It is that the land belongs to the people that worked it. Do you understand this?"
Nothing exemplifies establishment nonsense better than this. Please keep going to expose it further.
Do you drool when you babble like an idiot?
I have waited a week and I haven't seen anyone here that allegedly gives a damn about Gaza post anything related to the flooding. Do go on about how much you care.
Are you going on as though you care for Palestinians in Gaza ?!
You ought to consider reviewing your threads sometimes !!
See my 'amnesty.org' link to 'Trashy-jennifer' below !!!
minima maxima sunt ...
Heads up: I don't give a fuck about your reply. You're a fucking moronic piece of shit.
You had ample time to figure out how to respond. So, now, you and hc can go fuck yourselves.
Oh no GoofFriday !!! Please don't get sweary, meltydowny on Xmas eve !! You have a good one now !
omnia causa fiunt ...
Don't cry you worthless piece of shit.
For you or Argentina ?!!! If you want to ask me to Xmas dinner, you're going the wrong way about it !! And anyway, I am very spoken for but in case I can send a proxy next year, should he bring alcohol, lithium-based meds or both ?!
pacem in terris ...
http://occupywallst.org/forum/idf-strikes-six-gaza-targets-in-retaliation-to-sho/
Makes you happy right ?! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25509644 !! Shame !!!
cave - bellum se ipsum alet ...
[Removed]
I am not even close to 70. You're just a piece of shit paid to post cockroach.
Romanian Television Station Airs Anti-Semitic Christmas Carol http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/175060#.UrnIZrS7YbI
I wouldn't have you if you were the last man on earth.
That's a terrible story from one of your favourite sources but what has it got to do with this thread ?!
ne quid nimis ...
[-] 0 points by shadz66 (15991) 30 minutes ago
That's a terrible story from one of your favourite sources but what has it got to do with this thread ?!
ne quid nimis ... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
About time you assholes got around to the flooding. You're about a week late.
Nope, GoofFriedEgg, I posted a link about Gaza days ago & that's the salient point !
Who are ''you assholes'' ?!! Care to name any of 'them' and what team are you on ?!!!
'EyE for an eYe' only makes the world blind GF, as does 'never forget, never forgive' !!
Re. ''I am not even close to 70.'' below - why reference your IQ this late in the game ?
nosce te ipsum ...
[Removed]
You asked GoofFryDay -
To be honest, the twinkle team don't even have anything to do with this forum. They hijacked it. Anyone with points over 15,000 is suspect because they have immunity from censorship. Real occupiers get banned by our autocratic 1%ish moderator posers almost everyday.
Goodby, pointless person.
[Removed]
Goof Fry Day... Get it.... Lol... A day on which you fry the goofs. lol. Oh man, you crack me up... loloma
STOP being silly !!! Weren't you on your way to Copenhagen or something ?!! Via Bali ?!
temet nosce ...
[Removed]
The four Al-Nakba links you put up cannot be viewed here. I would suppose that is because of the corrupt influence that AIPAC has in this country.
You may ''suppose'' but alas I couldn't possibly comment but there are good replacement links here :
pax ...
Of course you can comment. Your humanity transcends borders and nationalities.
Pay no heed to the suddenly nationalistic, patriotic or parochial few on here that try to discredit your voice.
Most of us here know we are in a World-wide movement for justice.
Very well put.
Thanks, from my perspective shadz more than anyone here articulates the vision of this movement.
Pedestals are only good for falling off but thanx for your kinds words which are more conducive to hubris than humility ;-/ The very best take on the hard facts on that troubled ground are to be found here imho :
https://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israel-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-2012 & see :
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml and http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ .
fiat justitia ...
He holds his own. ;-)
I figured I'd go light on the praise lest he get "too big for his britches," heheh.
We all have to watch getting "too big for our britches, and in reminding others when they do.
Quite true. I doubt we have to worry about that with shadz, though. He seems pretty well-grounded to me. Perhaps even humble.
[Removed]
http://www.fontcraft.com/idiotwars/?p=5795
Here's what I'm worried about.
Excerpt:
Sometimes i wonder about you, man. On the one hand you seem to be quite intelligent, and on the other you seem to take a generalized, sometimes simplistic view of things (like our talk about "the government"), you often cherry-pick and your obsession with conspiracy theories is seriously out-of-hand. That link is someone's opinion and I would like to point out his comment says the irrational belief in conspiracies can be a symptom, etc. It doesn't say "belief in conspiracies is a symptom of cognitive dissonance."
And it's obvious from that link of yours that Raub was taken in for a psych evaluation based on the totality of his actions, including threads of violence and leading a revolution in which heads will roll.
And for every Chomsky there's a Dr. Paul Craig Roberts who fully believes in conspiracy theories, so once again, you are cherry-picking. That's "confirmation bias" and you well know it. As is your acceptance of one definition of conspiracy theory but rejection of another.
Also, just because someone is guilty (if that's even the correct term) of generalizing, or simplistic analysis, or reductionist thinking, it usually has NOTHING to do with "conspiracy theory thinking."
You're also dead-wrong about your opinion of shadz and I can't figure out why you've singled him out. I can pretty much guarantee he never frequents Alex Jones nor does he read David Icke's bullshit. I'd bet money on it.
You really need to get off this uber-obsession with conspiracy theories and instead post about important shit. You have it in you.
And you probably won't read this, and if you do it won't change your mind, but I'll link it anyway:
http://www.whale.to/b/rudmin.html
And here's what the good Doctor has to say about it. Only pay attention to the first half-dozen paragraphs, not the subsequent shit about 9-11:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/9-11-and-the-orwellian-redefinition-of-conspiracy-theory/25339
Truth is, T, you've been duped like millions of other into believing the government-inspired redefinition of conspiracy theory, NOT the actual definition.
[Removed]
If you know the correct definition of "conspiracy theories", then we are all into that, but you clearly prefer the admin's derogatory mis-meaning.
As for calling favourites, are you here to drive wedges between people?
[Removed]
[Removed]
From wiki; (quote) A conspiracy theory is an explanatory proposition that accuses two or more people, a group, or an organization of having caused or covered up, through deliberate collusion, an event or phenomenon of great social, political, or economic impact. In recent decades the term has acquired a derogatory meaning, and a careful distinction must be made between the derisive use of the term and reference to actual, proven conspiracies.(unquote)
You made no distinction between the two meanings.
And calling favourites is your perogative. Enough said.
[Removed]
[Removed]
[Removed]
Covered up an event? Never.
Everyone else can keep listening to the habitual liar, falling in line like idiots, no money for "real" scientific research but not dumb enough to fall for the 1000000000000ht lie in a row...
The system sucks. Electing "leaders" is no different than the authoratative nonsense we rebeled against repeatedly over time.
Who will lead me? Who will make my decisions? Who will look at my fancy studies and make the rules for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
What the fuck. What a scam.
Just listen to the blabbering on here, from those who seem to post the most (according to the "point" system- how fucking un democractic is that, can't even vote until the "leaders" decide you are "one of them") ....
Ugly at best.
It seems to me he made an obvious distinction. He clearly stated it in the negative more modern sense with the expression - "it puts a heavy dent in his logic". Not only that, but your first reply accused him of being derogatory, an accusation you shouldn't or wouldn't have made had you been confused about the intended meaning.
It even seems you somehow thought the derogatory meaning wasn't correct. You called it a mis-meaning. As stated by Wikipedia and many scholars, the term conspiracy theory has acquired a derogatory meaning in the last decades. (That's a long time.)
It seems to me you are a little confused, unless I misunderstood your intervention?
May I ask, how is the derogatory meaning of conspiracy theorist a mis-meaning? It's in the dictionary. It's used by scholars. It has been used that way in intellectual philosophical discourse for about 20 years now. The older meaning has actually fallen out of favour. Nowadays, more often than not, when people refer to conspiracy theories, they refer to the derogatory meaning of the word.
Like a typical conspiracy theorist you suffer from inflexible black and white thinking. You believe that if someone states that to compare the apartheid and the situation in Israel is not a good comparison it means that person doesn't realize the Palestinian people are being oppressed. This is ridiculous. There are all kinds of forms of oppression. If a group of people is oppressed it doesn't automatically mean we can understand their fate better by comparing them with the apartheid. These types of comparisons only lead to the type of lame generalities conspiracy theorists love so much. It's much better to analyze the Israel conflict for what it is. To see the unique aspects that make it a conflict.
It reminds me of when someone says 911 conspiracy theories are nonsense and conspiracy theorists retort by saying - "So, you have 100% trust in the government?". Black and white nonsense.
Like a perforated condom, you and your vacuous, repetitive, 'stuck-record', twaddle are of very little use however your ongoing failures will still allow continued opportunities to inform others of both your abject irrelevance as well as other, more pertinent matters . Ergo, I will append and recommend the following :
''Apartheid lives on in Israel, rampant, disguised, and despised — says ‘Le Monde’ correspondent'', by Philip Weiss : http://mondoweiss.net/2013/12/apartheid-disguised-correspondent.html .
''Gaza power crisis has compounded blockade’s assault on human dignity'' : http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/israelopt-gaza-power-crisis-has-compounded-blockade-s-assault-human-dignity-2013-11-29 .
multum in parvo ...
As usual, no arguments. Just logical fallacies that spring from the mind of a paranoid conspiracy theorist. Conspiracy theorists never have arguments. Because their world is built on fantasy, they need to use fantasy to defend it.
Silly little 'TrashyTroll' !!! My arguments were made and my supporting, corroborating links are posted already but your inability to engage with them is your problem & there's much more whence they came :
fiat lux ...
[Removed]
If we use the word Apartheid with every act of oppression, then we've just made another synonym for oppression and we have washed out all unique meaning to the word Apartheid. We could use it for aboriginals in America and Australia, for Israel, for women in the 40s, etc... It accomplishes nothing. Comparisons are always surface analysis. To really understand the problems of the Israel-Palestian conflict we need to look at the unique aspects that define it. We already have the word oppression, use that. The word Apartheid has particular meaning associated with the unique situation in South Africa.
I invite you to deepen your analysis. To look far beyond primary surface analysis provided by comparisons. Finding truth requires a lot of effort. The lazy ways of the conspiracy theorist do not work for this endeavour.
''Mandela is Gone, but Apartheid is Alive and Well ... in Australia'' (Too), by John Pilger :
You don't set the terms of the debate here nor do you get to dictate the language used. If ''Apartheid'' is a good enough descriptor for Israel & Australia for Chomsky, Pilger et al, then I'll consider it apt too -irrespective of your censorious inclinations. ''I invite you'' .. to extract your over-inflated head from your own anus and ''deepen your anal-ysis'' to get to the root of the Dark CONspiracy that is ... You :
gnothi seauton ...
I never said that I was setting the terms for the debate. I simply expressed my opinion by supporting with arguments. You and others can certainly disagree, but I don't think you need to use logical fallacies like name calling and crude childish insults to do that.
Purchased? hahahahahahahaha Similar to eminent domain here. I guess that land is technically purchased too.
hchc, if you have the capacity to contribute then do so. If not, take a hike.
The land was purchased. Look it up.
So were the homes they just grabbed to expand the highway, against the will of the people. Purchased? Technically yes. Fucked up and tyrannical? Definitely yes.
zzzzzzzzzzz
You're done. Get back to me when you know how.
This reminds me of racist people claiming that African leaders sold the slaves, therefore there is blame to be shared.
Like the African leaders had a fuckin choice. Either sell em, or we kill you and just straight up take the shit.
A non-choice choice. Just more globalist/elitist/zionist gangster moves. Thats all.
Stop defending it like it was a legitimate show of compassion. Thats my take. It's worth considering.
Sorry to see you feel that if a tyrannical force simply tosses money at people it now excuses their actions.
"Well they paid for it"... Wow.
I should revise this. I'm not saying that you are consciously backing what I am saying, but the fact that they can say they "paid for it" is just another pr move to make everyone feel better.
To defend the continuing injustices and brutality of the Israelis against the Palestinians the way you seem to ....tells me either you have not done your homework, or worse.
You should be more specific. What is obvious is that you are unwilling or unable to grasp what it is that I am saying and, therefore, seek to alter it to something that you can understand.
"You should be more specific." Why...so we can get into a tit for tat on the different interpretations of the history of that area? Or so you can ignore the facts that shadz has laboriously researched for you? And what begets or justifies the animosity that the Palestinians and Jewish Zionists have for each other? And where shall we start history's clock?
Let's just go with the inhumane way the Israelis have been treating the Palestinians..say for the last 60 years or so. Is it not evident to you that the Israelis have lost their moral compass?
It is painfully obvious to me that not only have they lost their way, but so too have we in our carte blanche support of them.
You should be more specific because if you don't then you have no chance of solving it. It's ok. You don't know how. That's good to know.
The only way to "solve" the problem between the Palestinians and Israelis is to starve the beast that has hegemonic aspirations in the Middle East. That means cutting off our aid to Israel, and orchestrating World-wide support in condemning them for their inhumane treatment of Palestinians. Anything else will be a waste of time.
Bullshit.
Do you think the money stops from Russia, China, or Iran?
It doesn't. You did it your way and now you have a rise in antisemitism.
Nice fucking job.
Are you the neighborhood bully here? Just because you are the most vile does not make you right. It just makes you a desparate, more coarse individual who cannot debate in a gentleman or lady-like way.
BTW, have a nice holiday.
Do you think the money stops from Russia, China, or Iran?
It doesn't. You did it your way and now you have a rise in antisemitism.
Nice fucking job.
Here's another link about your little "teddy bear," the murderous, racist Ariel Sharon.
http://www.sa.org.au/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=5417:ariel-sharon-racist-and-mass-murderer
Yes I do understand the perverted rule, anyone who ciriticizes Israel is anti-semitic...right?
You were doing so well putting up posts that almost made sense, and now here we are on Christmas Eve and you seem to be reverting to your old profane ways.
BTW...will you be carolling tonight?
Do you think the money stops from Russia, China, or Iran?
Anti-Semitism on rise in Europe Survey by EU's Fundamental Rights Agency shows an anti-Semitism increase across Europe over the past five years.
You have never made sense. I don't expect you to now.
Merry Xmas to you too and maybe consider :
''Living in Fear'' (Video) : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37217.htm &
''John Lennon : Happy Christmas ; War Is Over'' (Video) : http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37214.htm .
pax et lux ; hic et ubique ; nunc et semper ...
Afraid of the questions?
Nope. Are you ?
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/yes-the-new-yorker-publishes-munayyers-call-for-representative-and-democratic-single-state.html & thus, also :
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/11/after-gaza-a-single-state.html .
pax et lux ; nunc et semper ...
[-] 1 points by shadz66 (16033) 0 minutes ago
Nope. Do you think the money is gonna stop from inter alia The U$A ?
ad iudicium ... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
No, hon, Israel is a client state. As Syria is to Russia, etc.
N0 ! It Is N0T !! It is a Highly Militarised, Nuclear Armed, Hyper-Nationalistic, Totally Independent State - which doesn't give a flying fuck for anything or anyone 'cause it thinks it is ''On A Mission From G_d'' !!!
ad iudicium ...
Do you think the money stops from Russia, China, or Iran?
Nope. Do you really think the money is gonna stop from inter alia The U$A ?
ad iudicium ...
[-] 2 points by shadz66 (16142) 4 days ago
Hmmm. I have replied here : http://occupywallst.org/forum/mandela-legislator-arabs-misappropriate-apartheid-/#comment-1015809 & feel free too respond but marshal your arguments closely please.
vale ... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Pffttt.
''Pffttt'' ?! Is that the sound of lady-like flatulence ?!! You get that it still stinx tho', right ?!!!
Go on. I dare you to click that link. You never know, you just might learn something new.
e tenebris, lux ...
[-] 2 points by shadz66 (16047) 3 hours ago
NO ! It Is Not !! It is a Highly Militarised, Nuclear Armed, Hyper-Nationalistic, Totally Independent State - which doesn't give a flying fuck for anything or anyone 'cause it thinks it is ''On A Mission From G_d'' !!!
ad iudicium ... ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
It isn't totally independent. It's quite dependent on the US. Which means that the supply of weapons and money cannot be stopped from the US until and unless you can stop the money and weapons from China, Russia, Iran etc.
Can you do that? Ya, probably not. As soon as I finish conquering the world, that's first on my list.
You are either ignoring this or you know this and you are signing a death warrant so to speak. Had the terrorist attacks not occurred then the marriage law wouldn't be a major issue. This game of pretending that many of these actions happen out of the blue is a major mistake. Further, it prevents actions that would bring progress from occurring.
I could sit here all day and jack with that article. But, you really aren't worth the time and, frankly, that entire site is pretty worthless.
Ya, the Jews were invited to good old Britain by Cromwell. 'Cept, they were there already as noted in the Magna Carter of 1215:
If one who has borrowed from the Jews any sum, great or small, die before that loan be repaid, the debt shall not bear interest while the heir is under age, of whomsoever he may hold; and if the debt fall into our hands, we will not take anything except the principal sum contained in the bond.
And if anyone die indebted to the Jews, his wife shall have her dower and pay nothing of that debt; and if any children of the deceased are left under age, necessaries shall be provided for them in keeping with the holding of the deceased; and out of the residue the debt shall be paid, reserving, however, service due to feudal lords; in like manner let it be done touching debts due to others than Jews. Link
Which means that they would have had to been invited back. Why would that have to happen? Edict of Expulsion 1290
I don't trust anyone's history that starts with a cursory reading of the Old Testament.
Hmmm. I have replied here : http://occupywallst.org/forum/mandela-legislator-arabs-misappropriate-apartheid-/#comment-1015809 and feel free to respond but marshal your arguments closely please.
vale ...
[Removed]
Can I conclude that from your inability to respond to shadz long-winded (but very informative comment) that you have capitulated in your belief that Israel is a country acting in a humane way.....and that you would never have wanted to cuddle with your little murderous "teddy bear" Ariel Sharon?..
If not, please be reminded that you can always use obfuscating links, facts and logic to continue your naive crusade to try and white-wash Israel..
And lest we forget how usable your profane attacks are. I notice they begin to spring-up .. as your frustration grows,
Finally... your defense of Israel's brutal regime is ludicrous & shameful, and it would be expected from a right-wing Zionist zealot, BUT not from a person who is connected in any way with Occupy!! Or from my point of view anyone who has a grain of decency in them.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. Martin Luther King, Jr.
So, what I hear you saying is that you cannot answer the questions.
No...what you hear me saying is that I will not let you muddle away the main issue by asking questions, or bringing up other issues that have little bearing on what we are discussing..... and the main issue to me is quite simple ..and that is Israel's past and ongoing brutality toward the Palestinians.
Your reluctance to face this issue is telling, but not entirely so. You either are ignorant to the the events in that area and cannot admit you were wrong...OR you do have a firm grasp of what is going on there and like I have implied in a previous comment, you have an agenda similar to a 'right wing Zionist zealot.'
Utter bullshit.
Do you think the money stops from Russia, China, or Iran?
Anti-Semitism on rise in Europe Survey by EU's Fundamental Rights Agency shows an anti-Semitism increase across Europe over the past five years.
You refuse to answer because you know I am right.
No...you are definitely not right and I will not let you escape w/o experiencing the wrath you deserve for supporting Israel's inhumanity.
On another note, has something gone wrong with your life recently, or is it the cumulative effects of being a nasty person for so long that has finally taken its toll?
[Removed]
Gotta love the responses things like this get.
No...you are definitely not right and I will not let you escape w/o experiencing the wrath you deserve for supporting Israel's inhumanity.
On another note, has something gone wrong with your life recently, or is it the cumulative effects of being a nasty person for so long that has finally taken its toll?
Utter bullshit.
Do you think the money stops from Russia, China, or Iran?
Survey by EU's Fundamental Rights Agency shows an anti-Semitism increase across Europe over the past five years.
You refuse to answer because you know I am right.
Someone here had an old encyclopedia Britannica, before Israel and West went in and carved up the ME, and it clearly showed the area as Palestine.
Kind of sums things up nicely.
I also love the "client state" argument. Because clearly we are using the Israeli army to occupy and bomb all those nations over there, while ours sits mostly dormant... (facepalm).
hchc, don't you have someone else's ID to steal or a bogus website to put up to fulfill your pr firm duties? You aren't smart enough to understand the term client-state.
She just needs to get laid. The problem has been persisting for quite awhile now. The first doctors claimed a type of dementia from old age. Like she returned to the mind of an 8 year old. Further study revealed a long lasting lack of sex.
She's part of what I call the twinkle team. A team of users who came here to take over the forum. They are pro-Democrats, not pro-Occupy ideology. They've been soiling the forum with insults since they arrived and using partisan politics to divide people on this forum. I caught it very early and tried to fix the problem, but they managed to take over the forum.
Says the multiple ID cockroach.
[Removed]
sounds like south africa needs more public infra structure
Why did you come to that conclusion?
they need clean water
lack of freedom of movement ?
What does that have to do with the issue? I thought we were going somewhere with this.
Comparisons are usually iffy. This one is indeed really bad. It doesn't help understand the problems in Israel, and doesn't do justice to what happened in South Africa.
Then you will have no problem pointing out precisely how the comparisons are bad. What was it, precisely, that he said that made it bad? Do you know who this man is?
hey ms Friday - are you defending the government of Israel and its policies? there is much to be unhappy with no? much like our government. I don't come here often but you are one of the people I like to read - can you give me a quick idea of your position on the subject. I don't have too much time these days but seems that you feel that the palestinians are the problem here and responsible for the occupation etc.
This is not a football game.
not a very satisfactory answer. sorry to bother you. a fairly simple question gets a truly stupid response from Jennifer (mr anti conspiracy - what a waste of time that guy still is!) and your non answer - reminds me of why I stopped coming to the site. anyway last time we had any back and forth your life was moving in the right direction it seemed - I hope that is still the case - good luck
[Deleted]
been there done that - got the same non answers and gibberish then - doesn't seem very productive to me
You infer conspiracy theory type thinking. Why do you assume GirlFriday is defending the Israel government simply because she is against the idea of using the word Apartheid as a passe-partout for oppression? It's like 911 Truthers assuming I fully support all government actions and decisions just because I am against their nonsensical fantasies.
don't you have anything better to do
[Deleted]
very confusing - are you Jennifer - that is who I thought I was responding to. dish washing is a very good anti conspiratorial way to pass time.
no
not Jennifer
welcome to the forums
Strange question. Almost accusative in nature. It doesn't deserve a response, but yes, I do know Mr. Kenneth Meshoe. I'll leave it at that. I avoid discussions with people who aren't really interested in discussion, but who would rather attack others with rhetorical questions and other forms of trolling. Farewell.
Fundamental questions. Either you can answer or you cannot. You cannot. Carry on.
many believe the Palestinians are a second class
race(religion)(displaced population)
Believing does not necessarily make it so.
true
but it does mean that consider the distinction
Once it is established that it is not true then it becomes nothing more than propaganda. Repeating a lie does not make it true.
when one is speaking of discrimination; the perspective is established in the realm of ideas
We are speaking of apartheid which does not exist.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/493/transcript
http://occupywallst.org/forum/social-media-campaign-notamartyr-seeks-to-challeng/#comment-1017145
[Removed]