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Forum Post: Let's use English, the way it was created, shall we?

Posted 7 years ago on April 14, 2013, 1:30 a.m. EST by Builder (4202)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Pre-empting suggestions from several decorated veterans of this site, I'm suggesting that we all get it together to reclaim the English language for the 99%.

Screw letting the oligarchs have their way with manipulating words to obfuscate the reality of their dastardly deeds.

It's our language, and there's no way we are going to give it up to a handful of mind-benders, just because they bought up all the news outlets they could afford.

It's our language. Period. Full Stop.

254 Comments

254 Comments


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[-] 4 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

I better study up on my Beowolf....

Are we talking pre or post Norman invasion?

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

It's probably only happened in this century.

The mind-benders have been on the job trying to return America to the British/German oligarch's control.

[-] 2 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

So you don't think that the Normans changed/manipulated the language in Oder to gain control over the masses?

The Romans forcibly made the people they conquered speak Latin instead of their native language.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

That's very interesting.

You know that English is actually a trade language, like pidgin?

Constantly in a state of flux, but when two countries using the same language have opposite meanings for the same word, things get a bit murky.

[-] 3 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

It is hard to complain about "meaning manipulation" when English was built on it.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I don't follow.

There's a germanic element, where words have had their meaning in another language for the longest time. Lots of French words, as well as some Latin.

It was all about many regions finding common ground for communication.

[-] 3 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

My point is that people have always and always will manipulate language for their benefit.

Language diversity should be embraced, not denounced.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

And two (or three actually) nations using the same language where words have opposite meanings should be embraced?

[-] 3 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

if not embraced, accepted.

Fagging in the US is very different from Fagging in the UK.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

There's mental manipulation occurring.

Progressive has a meaning. So does Liberal.

I'll not be embracing any form of mental manipulation in that way.

[-] 2 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

Why does it matter what the words "liberal" and/or "progressive" mean?

Only ignorant people should identify themselves with a label describing thier personal philosophy.

Who gives a shit what Fox News says?

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 7 years ago

Your philosophy will be your down fall because it has little faith in Cooperation, incorporation, unions, advocacy groups and other forms of solidarity. You are the army of one, a sheep with no liberty asked to vote with wolves.

[-] 3 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

I have little faith in Forced cooperation; voluntary cooperation is a completely different beast.

If two people agree and want to work together voluntarily, then fine. But I dont want people(myself included) to be forced into cooperation for the sake of cooperation.

"I love to be alone. I never found a companion that was so companionable as solitude. We are for the most part more lonely when we go abroad among men than when we stay in our chambers. A man thinking or working is always alone, let him be where he will." "As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness." -HDT

"The monotony and solitude of a quiet life stimulates the creative mind." -Albert Einstein

These dudes were alot smarter than you or me. Just sayin.....

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Asked by a disciple how to rule a state properly, Confucius replies that it begins with rectifying the names:

“If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be conducted successfully. When affairs cannot be conducted successfully, propriety will not flourish. When propriety does not flourish, punishments will not be properly meted out. When punishments are not properly meted out, the people will not know how to conduct themselves.”

That was written about 475 B.C. When will we catch up with its wisdom?

[-] 3 points by HCabret (-327) 7 years ago

When the tower of Babel is built up once more....

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 7 years ago

spade is a racial term. while i am aware that this saying has no racial implications, i would ask that you consider using different terminology. especially in light of the subject of the post unless of course this is some sort of satire and i just don't get it.

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I wasn't aware that spade was a racial term.

[-] 3 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 7 years ago

i got ya

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Cool, that should make him feel better.

How about the English argument. Have we ever heard that argument before.?

English only? I seem to recall some anti immigrant groups obsessed with English also.

How can we make him feel good about spewin that shit.?

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 7 years ago

If you come to a country and become a citizen , you should learn that country's language and be able to speak and read it.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Every one always winds up learning english, sometimes that 1st generation is slow, (my great grandparents) but by the 2nd gen it's all over.

We assimilate. Resistance is futile. So that phoney 'intolerant' argument is ridiculous.

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Mandarin is the most widely spoken language in the world.

Your "phony (sic) intolerant " fraudulent nature is ridiculous.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Its beneficial to the elites to not have that segment learn the language.

If they cant speak the language that holds the power, they are stuck in the service economy. Serving the elites. As serfs.

All the "press 2 for spanish" isnt about being nice in the long run, its about keeping 20% of the population isolated and in low level service jobs.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

'Cept it's not. How many languages do you speak?

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 7 years ago

I agree with you about "press #2" , enough already. My great grandparents didn't speak English, but they didn't speak Spanish either. They learned English .

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Would they have if everyone around them was catering to them?

I dont care who you are, when everyone around you caters to you, it changes behavior. Nature.

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 7 years ago

No, they would not.

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

bullshit!!! "spade a spade"???

Racist piece of shit!!?!!!

So now you're gonna tell people how to speak.? Maybe we should stampout any slang based ebonics? Issat the goal?

Or is this an attempt at Engineering a little racist attack on our spanish speaking fellow occupiers?

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Having been married to a girl from New Zealand for over 20 years, and having spent time in Australia, I realized that there were many differences in the slang that was used between here and there

Years ago after a dinner with a young family in our home, the kids went to play upstairs

As us grown-ups sat around the table having wine or coffee, somehow the term "horny' came up, and very amusing to our friends and me, my wife had no idea what that slang term meant, but she kept repeating it in the cutest NZ accent too which had the three of us laughing our asses off

Another time, while watching the Red Sox play the Yankees, i asked her, 'what team she was 'rooting' for? That question was asked by me, not knowing that 'rooting' has a whole different meaning in New Zealand, hence any woman who 'rooted' fot a team would be considered a slut

So my point VQ is, you not understanding the differences in language is not a sign of Builder being a "Racist pece of shit," but rather one of you being not so worldly or most probably a disingenuous attempt by you in trying to brand him as one in your castigating comment

He deserve an apology

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

So you're saying "call a spade a spade" does not have a racist connotation in new zealand?

Bullshit!

What does it mean then?.

What did he mean by "mofo" Which race is he targeting with that slang? And for that matter.what kind of ism is behind this "queens english" bullshit?

Is that some anti immigrant english only slur? Or maybe just anti ebonics ism?

It certainly ain't an issue that occupy has taken a stand on.

No, Mr referee HE should apologize to me for the weeks of harassment/trolling unfounded, immature, personal attacks on me.

He should apologize for the homophobic comment he made too.

Isn't he a homophobic, racist piece of shit, and haven't you been duped into defending him.?

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Of course, to "call a spade a spade" is a hateful slang HERE, but him living in Australia not knowing that is understandable, and he did say, "I wasn't aware that "spade" was a racial term." Didn't he?

And Builder was not the one who brought the term "spade" up in the first place, was he?

And i would doubt that racist term is even used there in Australia in any way other than to till your garden

The term "Queen's English" was a compliment that I did not deserve BTW, as it just basically means an educated English..me?..lol.., or perhaps one's ability to express himself well

Your attempt to malign Builder in this case is opportunistic, and without merit,

Once again, he deserves an aplogy as unjustly being branded a 'racist' is in the same league as being the victim of one, but yes I can only imagine not near as bad

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 7 years ago

Maybe this will provide some clarification....It is evident that the word spade refers to the instrument used to move earth, a very common tool. The same word was used in England, Denmark, and in the Netherlands, Erasmus' country of origin. The Oxford English Dictionary records a more forceful variant, "to call a spade a bloody shovel", attested since 1919. The phrase predates the use of the word "spade" as an ethnic slur against African Americans, which was not recorded until 1928; however, in contemporary U.S. society, the idiom is often avoided due to potential confusion with the slur[2] and/or confusion with playing card references such as "black as the ace of spades".... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_call_a_spade_a_spade

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Thanks for the history, but except for the date, i knew most of that

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 7 years ago

Yes, but yet VQ never misses an opportunity to call someone a "racist piece of shit." Facts be damned.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Yes, VQ uses every dispicable method he can think of to discredit people, and I have had it up to my ears with him

~Odin~

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

He's a charmer, no doubt.

I'm thinking OTP is right, and he's paid to post here.

[+] -4 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Yes I believe there is an excellent chance that he is paid to post here and create dissention, while trying to co-opt this movement.

~Odin~

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

It's comforting to know that my suspicions are shared by others here.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Yeah, there are many people who think that VQ is paid to post here. Smart people used to stay clear of him when we had partisan moderators, not me tho...lol

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Hey moron. I post hundreds of comments daily!!! You wanna talk about ONE? Already did. You wanna keep talkin about it instead of focusing on the issues that occupy takes a stand on?

NO!!!

Get a life. Grow up! try to put your hatred of my politics aside and get back to what occupy is about.

Consider this in regards to Occupy and our efforts.

http://front.moveon.org/why-its-harder-to-be-a-liberal-in-11-words/?rc=daily.share

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Oh yes, Occupy is a big supporter of the co-opting group MoveOn.org..lol

A really big part of Occupy is not fomenting hatreds, as you have done by unjutifiably calling a good person here a "racist piece of shit"

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I'm busy! Stop trying to prevent me from doing the good important work of this forum.

And I been here long before May 2012.

So that is yet another of your unfounded lies about me. Mt 'resident VQ expert'

LOL. Whatta fuckin joke!

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

"Good important work?" You mean you are looking to call someone else a "racist piece of shit?"

You are 'card' VQkag..lol, albeit an unscrupulous one

~Odin~

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Paid Hack. Cone of Shame.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Ignorant people believe those false suggestions of me being paid for my forum contributions.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

You falsely accused a poster, who i know has worked with and cares about the plight of the indigenous people in Australia a "racist piece of shit."

That and other deceptions are typical of your behavior on here since you were hired

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

If you're not being paid, then you have a major-league psyche disorder.

Three new socks this morning? Or is it four?

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

At best, he's visual pollution.

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

No new socks. One ID, & I spent the morning off the forum at an interview.

YOU need help with this unhealthy obsession/fixation on me.

I post hundreds of current important info/action items the occupy has taken a stand on everyday.

You spend you time dishonestly, personally attacking people you disagree with.

YOU are the divisive, disruptive pollution! Not me.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

he has brought dissention and deception on here from his arrival in May 2012

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 7 years ago

I dont understand , you think a lot of the people ( non union) that came to nj to help out ( including yourself) but want a bill to pass that prevents those same people from helping out with the clean up and rebuilding.please explain.

[-] -2 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 7 years ago

did you have much damage from the storm?

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

I left for Alaska two days before Sandy hit, and i was lucky no water got into the house as i am only 3-4 blocks from Barnegat Bay, and 3-4 miles west on the mainland of the iconic picture of the roller coaster sitting in the ocean

A lot of the homes in the town i live in though had several feet of water in them, and if the had the water came up another foot, yes it would have been in my home to, and i probably would have had to return home

Many of the homes on the barrier island sustained major damage. some where the homes were completely pushed off there foundation in tact sometimes...some broke in half several days after the storm because they were sitting on only half their foundation....other homes, cars and debis was swept west into the bay

A friend who works for the gas company showed me some amazing 8 x 10 pictures with all types of scenarios

Many of the insurance companies are screwing around in paying people, and the ones that do have to completely rebuild have to build higher up, maybe on pylons, not sure tho. Anyway some people will not be able to afford to rebuild despite many of the homes on the island being worth anywhere from a half million to several million dollars as their income does not always measure up to the worth of the house which sometimes has been in families for generations

~Odin~

[-] -3 points by RwOrn (-290) from Berkeley, CA 7 years ago

I knwo about the extensive damage and how peole are getting a screwing via the insurance companies and fema. There was a bill by sweeney ( union guy) that passed the senate and was going to the statehouse that was going allow only union people to do the cleanup and rebuilding. i dont know how the vote on it went.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

To my bad, i don't follow state politics much as this place, NJ is probably more corrupt than most people in the country believe it to be

i do hope that bill passes tho..., but it still has to be signed by Chrisitie, so i have my doubts

I also do not like supporting my local paper which is owned by the corporate giant Ganette

There have been people coming in from all over the country volunteering. I helped out with a group of college kids who had come from Cornell College in Iowa, and Ohio State Uni.. Buckeyes, and i am on the mayor's list for volunteers

They gave up their spring break to come here...very, very admirable and heart-warming to see

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

He most certainly did use "spade" first when he titled the post that he corrected.

I don't have to malign him, his behavior has done that.

Perhaps his lack of worldliness is the problem. I know what spade means in english. I submit he does too.

Why do you think he neglected to apologize when the racial offensiveness of his title was brought to his attention.?

And where were you when he has been dishonestly, personally attacking me for the last 2 weeks mr referee? Seems you are just sticking up for your racist, homophobic, anti occupy friend if you ask me.

A little partial are you.?

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

He may have been attacking you because you:

  • are a blind Dem shill
  • use multiple handles in an attempt to run a forum
  • spend WAY too much time on here to be anything BUT a professional disrupter
  • comment on posts that are months old multiple times to bring yours back up

Im sure there are others as well.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I do not push dems I push progressive solutions for issues that occupy takes a stand on.

I use one ID and post hundreds of posts with new info/action items daily because there is lots goin on

The amount of time I spend here is not against the rules. I just spent 2 days away. (protests, dir dem meetings) And his attacks are disruptive. I post current info/actions on occupy issues.

I comment on old posts (mine and otherwise) when I want to add to posts that I think should be at the top. Including official occupy posts. Also not againstthe rules.

So no none ofyour suggestions make sense. But I know why he attacks me. Because I push occupy issues, he and I do not agree on the issues so since his arguments can't stand up to debate he must take the fascist, tyrannical, cowards way of trying to chase me away.

NO one is gonna chase me away.

I am unstoppable.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

If you attended as many OWS events as you say you do, you would know that your despicable behavior on here is totally antithetical to what Occupy is about

Your perverse dishonest modus operandi is more reminiscent of the reason of why we are all here,

You do not represent what Occupy is about, or for that matter what most New Yorkers are about

And we are fed up with it.

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

and you're a lying conservative troll, what's your point? I push the death of the GOP you got a problem with that?

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

"Lying conservative troll," be careful this kind of thing along with your profanity can get you banned

You are still unable to grasp that the 'same old' is what has brought us here

I would like to put both parties out of business as they have both betrayed us

What have you been doing to advance our struggle over the winter other than trying to bring us into the folds of the dem party factsy? Let me guess...0

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

Oh yeah I just remember on this "non-partisan" site you can get banned for calling someone a Republican but you can call people Democrat all day long, that's right I remember, that's odd isn't it?

[-] 0 points by WSmith (2698) from Cornelius, OR 7 years ago

OH, Please tell us all about that!! Please!

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

Pack up your lying sack of shit and go bitch to mods then.

People have been voting third party since union began never does a thing till you kill off one of the two big boys, if that path worked then Green would have gotten more votes in 2004 instead of being deader than OWS.

[-] 2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Still talking about 2004 factsy...eh

I bet you are still wearing 'corduroys' too!

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Replying here factsy. Vulgar old men most often find much courage from the anonymity of the cyber world

As for the first time in their life they can spew their bullshit without any real repercussions, other than to look stupid...of course..lol

Still though... I can't help, but conjure up an image of you with your face all red, veins poping out of your neck at your local barber shop heaving all the contents of your hate-filled 'same-old'

While everyone waits for you to pay-up, and leave...lol

All you have left now is your vindivtiveness and your incessant stinkling with your 'make-believe' friends/pseudoynms, while you stew in what has most likely been a life-long negativity and futility

Knowing that, there is no reason for me to engage you in a tit-for-tat profane rhetoric, as i would only be reducing myself to your shallow, base level

The World has passed you by factsy....bye,bye...;-)

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Translation without the profanity: I am still talking about 2004, and I think if we all vote Democratic, this time it will be different. Right? ;-)

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

Translation: whatever lies you got to tell, to help elect Republicans

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Thanks for voting for more war and more death. Way to make a stand!!!

This has to be the first time in history where Democrats had protesters arrested, and some are still begging for them for help.

Absolutely. 100%. Pathetic.

But its mostly the old goats that never showed up much anyways, so oh well.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 7 years ago

obomber was talking war kills as an election platform

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

If Nader had supported Gore there would have been no war.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

1 points by factsrfun (10286) from Phoenix, AZ 0 minutes ago

At least it gives us a clear choice, at least right now it does, there has never in recent history been so great a divide between our two major parties on the main issue concerning OWS that of wealth inequality the two are night and day on that top issue. stinkle/twinkle/etc

I'm not convinced at all.

The real presidential debate wasn't even attended by the red/blue candidates. The illusion of choice has you convinced, my friend.

You are aware that the "smart money" men fund both sides of the election?

It's hard to lose when you back both horses in a two-horse race.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

Take for instance minimum wage Obama wants to raise it, that would be a good thing the other side doesn't, that's huge, healthcare is another area hell BradB put up a long list of stuff here's a link are there any of these you think he shouldn't do?

http://occupywallst.org/forum/updated-and-expanded-list-of-212-obama-accomplishm/

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

It's all designed to convince you that you have a choice.

Better to ask why the presidential debate does not allow anyone with real agendas.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

You mean like your arguments are designed to convince people they don't?

To kill the GOP and the footmen of the rich is a choice we do have, to take out collective heads out of our arses and see what is clear as day that Republicans Love rich People

But that would not fit into your political plans I suspect.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Now factsy, play nice.

We all know that Odin is centrist.

Can you prove otherwise?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

he would blame Obama for a rainy day do you need a link to the comments to prove it really? why don't you show me where he speaks ill of an Republican, yet he is always ready to slam Obama like all con trolls, present company included

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I vote independent.

It's a real problem for you guys that it's not an option in the US.

This "lesser of two evils" crap is democracy? Really? You believe that shit?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

At least it gives us a clear choice, at least right now it does, there has never in recent history been so great a divide between our two major parties on the main issue concerning OWS that of wealth inequality the two are night and day on that top issue.

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Thats because you are so far behind you think you are in first haha

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

For me it ain't a race, or a competition. I succeed every day that I can disseminate current info/actions regarding the issues that occupy has taken a stand on.

I do that despite the off topic disruptions, and divisive, dishonest, childish, personal attacks.

Ha ha HA!!

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I'm really concerned about your mental health, VQ.

Unless OTP is right, and you're a paid plant. R U?

It makes sense, really. You clearly have an agenda, you pretend to be a centrist, but your posts are anything but, you have a base desire to manufacture consent, and when you lose a debate, you spend the next day downvoting your winning opponent.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of pay does the job bring in?

[-] -3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Mr referee knows your sordid, deceitful rep well VQkag ever since your arrival here in late May of 2012

And if he or anyone else ever made a "racist" remark about you or anyone else here he/I would be one of the first to castigate him for it

And that is whether he agreed with my points of view or not

~Odin~

And for whatever it is worth, CALL ME on it if I don't

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

you're lying fucking troll, whose only purpose here is to bash Obama you don't give a damn about wealth inequality you even tried to get me to stop talking about it.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Wow factsy, you have gotten really popular over-night with your big twinkles

Me and Builder tho, not so much

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

maybe you should run tell the mods

[-] -3 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

No, I would rather just make you look stupid

Most of the time, you don't need any help tho...

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

1 points by factsrfun (10296) from Phoenix, AZ 0 minutes ago

I think that if there could be there would be, I think our current system arises from our constitution and I oppose a Constitutional Convention as I would not trust its outcome. I think it is very important to deal with the real world if one wishes to make real change.

Having said all that sure if i were dictator as Bush once muse I would maybe do things different, but I still think it's a good thing I'm not. (nor anyone else)

↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

There are many choices other than red/blue.

Unfortunately the red/blue own the bulk of the media outlets, so the rest of the candidates get to talk amongst themselves.

Jill Stein attempted to attend the red/blue faux debate, and got arrested, remember? I'm thinking you don't carry the can for #ows at all, my friend.

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

sure you can either help a Republican win or not there are lots of ways to vote if you want to help the GOP win but if you want to beat them you have to pay attention, in VT and MA it's not red/blue because they have killed their red we could have more choices across the country if we would do the same.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

another Dem shill clinging to a dream that doesnt exist...

You and hte R trolls are the perfect recipe for divide and conquer.

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

There are also lots of ways to vote if you want to help a Dem win but you have to pay attention if you want to keep a Dem from winning it works both ways, it all depends on how serious you are about change and keeping Republicans from office so they can start wars and cut taxes on rich people and such.

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Everyone should fit in either a neat Dem or Rep box, and yet over half the population doesnt waste their time with this nonsense.

Over 75% dont partake in midterms.

Just because I think Obama sucks and is a warmonger doesnt mean I would vote for the Republicans, they are just as bad and in many cases worse.

Congress has a 10% approval rating and a 90% reelection rate. Great job guys.

[-] 0 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

You don't have to vote for a Republican to help them win, any vote that doesn't help defeat them, helps them win, not voting at all also helps republicans win

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

After 08 we got a Bush tax cut extension, more bailouts for bankers,a surge in Afghanistan, have attacked 8 countries since and are building more bases than ever.

Thats not a win. Thats getting played.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

Well you did your best to elect Romney, better luck next, no wait not better luck next time, I think your guy Romney would have been much worse, after all your guy Bush was a huge turd.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

You're up early factsy. Do you have your stinkling fingers ready?

Yes, I remember well you sounding like a broken record on the wealth inequality issue

And had you taken my advice way back then, you may have understood the bigger picture, and that this is not and it never will be a partisan campaign

So now you find yourself frustrated in the feeling the world has passed you by

And that Occupy Wall Street is a much more noble movement than you want it to be

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

a broken record? ehhh? that was a whole ID ago for you, I don't mention this much but it wasn't me that had to start over, and is always bitchin about stinkle, I was very clear as far as I'm concerned they can get rid of the stinkle, but oh the whiners didn't like that either

http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-suggest-the-mods-remove-the-stinkle-and-its-affe/

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

"That was a whole ID ago for you," NO factsy you are wrong again!

It's imortant that history be accurate factsy.....THAT was two or three IDs ago for me..lol when we had partisan moderators on here. You probably remember them as the 'Good Old Days'

Me? Not so much....

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10286) from Phoenix, AZ 2 minutes ago

So your point is that Romney would support MW increase?

You asked about Bush so I answered about Bush, you are such a lying sack of shit.

0 points by Builder (3784) 2 hours ago You think Obama is any better than the last oligarch puppet? Do you have the value system of ows in mind when making this kind of attack? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink


The "value system" of #OWS is anarchy.

Remember?

The red/blue system has no place here.

Remember?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

So you share the Keys to the rule book with Odin?

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I'm in Australia, remember?

I don't share the keys to anything.

I do know that if this site had some decent moderation happening, we wouldn't have all this shit flying around, based upon red/blue garbage, that any thinking person would realise is just opium for the masses.

Here's one question for you, factsy. Do you think there should be more choices than red/blue at election time, in a country such as America?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

I think that if there could be there would be, I think our current system arises from our constitution and I oppose a Constitutional Convention as I would not trust its outcome. I think it is very important to deal with the real world if one wishes to make real change.

Having said all that sure if i were dictator as Bush once muse I would maybe do things different, but I still think it's a good thing I'm not. (nor anyone else)

Oh in case you haven't read anything I've written let me point out it doesn't always have to be red/blue as soon as the red is dead another will spring up that's sort of from the constitution too.

[+] -4 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

"lying fucking troll," now factsy that isn't nice

I care plenty about wealth inequality. You're not theonly one who got screwed

It's just that I think you should spend just a 'little' time in learning what OWS is about. That's all.

You do seem increasingly desparate to bring this movement into the dem camp as evidenced by your continuing profanity

Perhaps you aren't taking enough vitamins factsy. Try this

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

Oh really link me to one of your better posts or comments referring to wealth inequality all I ever see you do is bitch about Obama you fucking con troll.

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

You think Obama is any better than the last oligarch puppet?

Do you have the value system of ows in mind when making this kind of attack?

[-] 3 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

Yes I do think Obama is better than Bush, Obama wants to raise minimum wage I think that's a good thing, that makes him better than Bush.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

1 points by factsrfun (10286) from Phoenix, AZ 1 minute ago

you ask is Obama better than Bush? I say yes because he supports raising minimum wage. you ignore that answer. Did that clear things up for you? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

Raising it to the poverty level, while there's five empty houses for every homeless person in America? It's a carrot dangle.

If you can't see that, I'm not sure what else I can show you.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

So in your opinion it's better to oppose the raise? The question was is Obama better than Bush, not is he good enough, because that is a question each of us can ask ourselves I think.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

You're either a bot, or stupid.

Which one? I've answered this question in so many ways, there's nothing left to say on the topic. If you are serious about the red/blue thing, Bush doesn't even come into the equation. It's Romney, remember? That guy that wiped 47% of America's population in one night's dinner table rant? Remember him?

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

So your point is that Romney would support MW increase?

You asked about Bush so I answered about Bush, you are such a lying sack of shit.

0 points by Builder (3784) 2 hours ago You think Obama is any better than the last oligarch puppet? Do you have the value system of ows in mind when making this kind of attack? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Our school leavers get paid better than fifty percent of your workforce.

A three dollar pay rise wouldn't lift the poor out of abject poverty.

Obomney is dangling carrots, while pretending to care.

See my other post about this issue.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

So you're saying it's better to oppose a raise in minimum wage? I believe the question you ask was is Obama better than Bush, do we agree that he is? or do you think it is better to oppose an increase?

You ask a question, I answer it, and you seem confused by that.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (10286) from Phoenix, AZ 4 minutes ago

clearly you don't, you ask a simple question I give you a simple answer and you act as if you didn't hear, people do shit like that all the time you're not the only one I know

there is, I hope a special place in hell for those who would pretend to use truth to deceive. stinkle/twinkle/etc

Obfuscation seems to be your strong point, factsy.

Which part of "get a life" are you not understanding?

[-] 2 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

you ask is Obama better than Bush? I say yes because he supports raising minimum wage. you ignore that answer. Did that clear things up for you?

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Your answer carries more questions.

Your political system (for want of a better descriptor) is one of the lesser of two evils. Is Obomney better or worse than Romoney? Talk to congress. They might have some answers for you.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

clearly you don't, you ask a simple question I give you a simple answer and you act as if you didn't hear, people do shit like that all the time you're not the only one I know

there is, I hope a special place in hell for those who would pretend to use truth to deceive.

[+] -4 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

If you want to be pedantic, the correct spelling is "arse".

An "ass" is a donkey or mule.

Thanks for the links.

[-] 1 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

another fucking English teacher?

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I taught construction and joinery.

Is that an issue for you?

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Ok. How?

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Sorry, GF. Missed this one.

There are English dictionaries that would be the start of the process.

Definitions of words are not hard to find. You get your independent media reps to pull out the word card when interviewing political pundits, and show them that they are taking a word out of context, and actually twisting the language to fit an agenda.

It's not something that the sound-byte generation would be even slightly interested in, of course, but that's a start.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

The linguistics of spin, then?

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Anti-spin?

Not a great soundbyte.

The double-speak issue is part of the mind-bender's agenda, and if we don't pull them up short, there's gonna be hell to pay.

Did you see the quote from Confucius that I posted yesterday?

Asked by a disciple how to rule a state properly, Confucius replies that it begins with rectifying the names:

“If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be conducted successfully. When affairs cannot be conducted successfully, propriety will not flourish. When propriety does not flourish, punishments will not be properly meted out. When punishments are not properly meted out, the people will not know how to conduct themselves.”

That was written about 475 B.C. When will we catch up with its wisdom?

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 7 years ago

Have you seen how they're redefining the word 'oligarchs'?

The original meaning was always in reference to the 0.01%. The 'few'...kind of like 'monarchs' but without the royalty.

Now mainstream media uses it to describe the 1%. 'The wealthy', including the run-of-the-mill everyday millionaires.

This is intentional. The majority of the public don't know the meaning of the word oligarchs, but it is starting to get out there and the oligarchs want to stay in the shadows. This redefining is an attempt to whitewash themselves into the shadows while the attention is redirected to the 'generally' wealthy. The sneaky pieces of $h#t !!

Oligarchs ~

"Oligarchies are often controlled by a few powerful families whose children are raised and mentored to become inheritors of power, often at some sort of expense to those governed. In contrast with aristocracy — or government by the "best" — this power might not always be exercised openly, with some oligarchs preferring to remain "the power behind the throne," exerting their control through economic means. Unlike plutocracy, oligarchy is not always a rule by wealth, either, because oligarchs can simply be a privileged cadre. It also has been suggested that most communist states fit the definition of oligarchies."

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-an-oligarchy.htm

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Wow. Thanks Renneye.

The thugs that run defense for these oligarchs probably have more morals and social values than their bosses.

As the days roll by, I'm more convinced that we are at war.

It's not a truce-time at all.

[Removed]

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

“One mark of a great soldier is that he fight on his own terms or fights not at all.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

yeah, i read that little book

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Good deal!

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

I think i watched it on YouTube too. It's very basic good advice. Retreat where your enemy is strongest...in our case that would be the parks that were Occupied

And then attack (figuratively) where your enemy is weakest, and in our case, that would probably be stuff like using the cyber world for outreach and good wholesome projects, and non-violent demonstrations/protests

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

It also defines the war waged on the people. He tells you to know your enemy and yourself.

[-] 1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Knowing yourself and your short-comings is valuable in life in general

And understanding your enemy of course is extremely important

I think I'm going to look for that on Great Docs or You Tube soon, and watch it again as i don't know where the book is

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Cryptic. I guess it is war.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

All infantry isms.

War is seemlessly moving away from physical confrontation.

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

And?

Studying human nature is essential.

For instance: biosolids

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Yes, I bookmarked it.

Will make interesting reading.

As we (humanity) move further away from the blood and guts side of war, and closer to the button-pushing murderous side, I'm wondering how political correctness will "correct" our actions.

Strikes used to be something that happened at the bowling alley.

Now, we use a remote-controlled aircraft to shoot a guided missile into a target area, killing everyone within a certain radius, and call it a strike.

All ten pins?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Like collateral damage. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Doublespeak

Some might call this same double speak professionalism

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Non-combatant casualties?

Displaced civilians?

Genetic anomolies?

Spreading democracy?

[-] 0 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Yep. Yep. Yep. and Yep.

I found it. Linguistics and spin (double speak). http://users.manchester.edu/FacStaff/MPLahman/Homepage/BerkebileMyWebsite/doublespeak.pdf

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Okay, saved to the desktop.

I was watching a video the other day along the same lines.

Will find it later.

[-] 2 points by mideast (506) 7 years ago

less vulgarity & stopping personal attacks on other posters would help

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Would help what? Your cause?

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2698) from Cornelius, OR 7 years ago

Duh, da, da, da--Daaa, I'm Loving It!!!!!

[-] 1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

I love how entitlements have become a bad word.

Last I checked, when you pay for something you are entitled to it.

[-] 2 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 7 years ago

What about "human rights"?

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Yes, and what about civil rights?

MLK got assassinated for demanding his.

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Hypocrates was a figure from our distant dystopian past.

Which of the hundreds of native languages would you choose?

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

The local dialect was Hebrew?

We have the oldest artwork in the world in Australia, and it isn't Hebrew.

[Deleted]

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I "jumped continents" because the oldest artwork is in Australia.

Did you just crawl out from under a rock, or something?

[Deleted]

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

You'd prefer to direct the conversation?

Why does that not surprise me?

There's no evidence that hebrew is anywhere in the language groups of norte americano.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

I am not ashamed to admit that i have a dictionary and a thesaurus close-by while commenting here, and use them often in trying to articulate myself better

And unless it is obvious sarcasm, or perhaps some sly or dead-pan humor, i give careful thought to say what I mean, and hence mean what I say

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

You, my compadre, speak the Queen's English.

Whether that is a nod to colonialist separatism is not for me to say.

We need to grab a hold on our English language, and tell those fuckers when they are trying to twist our words around to suit an agenda of their own, that it's not going to happen.

We know the meaning of words in our own language, and we are not going to let a select few decide what those words are going to mean in the future.

Which part of FUCK OFF are you having trouble with, oligarchs?

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 7 years ago

Agreed, there is a twisted usage of English. But I see the twisting more as cognitive distortions. Here's a list I copied off of this forum posted by veterans of truth activism. The list was created by cognitive therapists to use as a guide for treating people that were conducting distortions and trying to use the distortions to base their behaviors, reactions, evaluations etc. upon. That is not rewarding.

Cognitive distortions which are supported by a false group and taught to innocent lurkers, bystanders, citizens seeking knowledge about how to protect their futures, serve to create an environment so vague; relating to knowledge; that no meaningful cognition of anything might result from the infiltrations.

It takes critical thinking to unravel the ball of crap they create, one thread at a time. The infiltrators model these distortions with the contextual uses of words, which goes absolutely against the very intent of any language.

LIST OF COGNITIVE DISTORTIONS

  1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories. If things are less than perfect self is viewed as failure.
  2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous failure.
  3. Mental filter: Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.
  4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.
  5. Mind reading: One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.
  6. Fortune Telling: Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established
  7. Catastrophizing: Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.
  8. Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation
  9. "Should" statements: Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.
  10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.
  11. Personalization: Thinking that the actions or statements of others are a reaction to you.
  12. Entitlement: Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.
[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

This list is straight out of the NPD handbook.

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Wow.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I was VQkag2. I am not pushing a Dem agenda, my political persuasion is NOT justification of the weeks of dishonest, childish, personal attacks.

I am not responsible for all of Builders downvotes. Not through sock puppets, or asking others to downvote him. The voting/karma points are irrelevant. But Builder IS guilty of the harassing/trolling attacks against me! Is that petty of him? Or should he "carry on"?

Issues that occupy takes a stand on, and benefit the 99% matter.

Builder is wrong on the issues, attacks me for my pro occupy positions, and gets others to support that inappropriate use of the forum with lies, bullying, and whining about his score.

You gotta by smarter than to fall for that shit

[-] -1 points by Nader (74) 7 years ago

"I am VQkag2"

Why did you change your SN? I mean it was always fairly obvious who you were but why change it?

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16364) 6 months ago

I submit the Dems can be madeto serve the 99% on these war issues.

This Pres has never used the indef det authority repubs created. Stopped torture resisted right war mongering to invade Iran Ended Iraqa war, ending Afghan war. Eliminated color theat levels. LOL and never uses "war on terror" Has layed the ground work to declare the end of the war on Al Qaeda. has reduced drone bombings in 2012. has reduced US military killings from million+ to thousands. Has cut defense budget, merc use, and will cut more unlike repubs. One party uses fear mongering/war mongering still. They other does not and has taken steps and made real progress to demilitarise us in the face of massive repub war mongering 1% MIC plutocrats.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

These seem like errr..kinda like co-opting words from VQ to me

I'll get to the other site you mentioned later, thanks

~Odin~

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Wow. What a mouthful.

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

It was the "cone of shame" for getting busted doing the same thing he's doing now. VQ's consent factory has been hard at work from the beginning.

[-] 5 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

That was a slap on the wrist because I wasn't guilty of anything serious. And if I was doing what you suggested I would be punished now. But I ain't, and you can't prove it because I ain't guilty.

YOU are a liar!!!

You think the mods Ain't watchin'? C'mon you've had lotsa your vicious personal attacks against me removed. They ARE watchin'. In fact I could tell you without a shadow of the doubt that they are watching very closely.

My advice to you is try to focus your activity to disseminating important current info/action items or discussion of issues that occupy has taken a stand on.

You must know that dishonest, childish, personal attacks are not appropriate forum activity right?

[-] -1 points by Nader (74) 7 years ago

Dude, you need to get laid. ASAP. Even if you have to pay for it, you need to make it happen.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Daily mothafucker! Sometimes twice.

Aaaaaaaaaah ha ha ha ha!

You should forget me, put aside your hatred for my pro 99% politics & focus on the issues.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

So when I say mofo, I'm a racist piece of shit?

You're twisted worse than I could ever imagine40.

Chuckles.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

You said it not me.

ENGINEER some truth, it will set you free from your hate.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

c3smith and freewriterguy85?

LOL. You're getting very creative.

But I guess you've had a lot of practise talking to yourself.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I use one ID. You are clearly out of touch with reality, Just like your GSW, Factsrfun and all the other false accusations.

ENGINEER some reality, and focus on the important issues that occupy has taken a stand on.

Save what little bit of decency, & integrity you think you have.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

The Gig is up, kag2.

Who pays your wages?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

ENGINEER some reality, and focus on the important issues that occupy has taken a stand on.

Save what little bit of decency, & integrity you think you have.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

No Builder, considering myself the resident expert on VQ, he did not get banned for the "Cone Of Shame"

That process happened while 'they' were trying to prove that I had multiple pseudonyms

And very ironically while i was working quite hard at times for OTS during the S17 weekend

Anyway he got banned well after that, about the same time we had a change....for the far better... in moderators

Somewhere, i have a list of all his sordid tactics which BTW is quite long

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

You are no 'expert' on me. You are simply someone with NO integrity willing to spew falsehoods about people you disagree with.

And no one tried to prove you had mult ID's. You did, You got caught for something several times, I don't know what. And as you've admitted got banned for your rule breaking several times.

I have NEVER been banned because I obviously haven't broke the rules like you.

I have more respect for Occupy & this forum perhaps.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

I'm not too happy with the people who write our history with the possible exception of Howard Zinn, whom i have not read yet

But i am extremely happy that you do not write history, and that your own sordid past on here preceeds your attempt at feigning innocence as history would be much more distorted than it already is if you wrote it

My bans occurred when we had partisan moderators who worked in complicity with you to ostracize me

And i can assure you that those moderators won't be back any time soon

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I have been here since Oct 6 2011, you've only been here since Nov 19

Sorry you lose. I was down in Zuccotti on Sept 19th. And there dozens of times..

Every March, Many meetings, You ain't got nothin on me!

I've been protesting since my protest against the SST, and early earth day events in the early 70's.

You don't judge ME. I don't submit to anyone.

I fight the good fight regardless of your sorry, comfortable. weekend warrior, Johny come lately, suburban, fascist, hypocrite, phoney occupier.

"another pseudonym"? Bullshit! Why did you change? banned early on for attacking people maybe? Why didn't you include it? cause your lyin? I included links! backup ! evidence!

Tell me the ID I'll find it for you.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

"VQkag2" when you were at your most obnoxious self, and had partisan moderators assiting you in your partisan efforts

MAY 30, 2011 as i said

Still doesn't matter, what does matter is how you condcuct yourself and your have always treated people who disagree with you like shit

~Odin~

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Oct 6!!!!!! Aaaaaaaaah ha ha ha ha!

"another pseudonym"? Bullshit! Why did you change? banned early on for attacking people maybe? Why didn't you include it? cause your lyin? I included links! backup! evidence!

Tell me the ID I'll find it for you. You can't because you are lying as always.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Whatever you say VQ, your sordid rep is well known

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Your several bannings were well deserved and the Mods were absolutely correct. Despite youreffort to rewrite history and delude yourself.

I have never been banned because I am not guilty of anything that rises to your level of anti occupy activity.

Sorry. Those is da facts boss!

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

You are one of the last people here who could preach to me about integrity or what the Occupy movement is about

Thank God, i know of no one like you in Occupy, and I know many people there, who unlike you are the 'salt of the earth'

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Cone of Shame, kag2.

Was that karma in action?

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

So youi didn't come on board until Nov 19 2011 huh?

I guess I got you beat.

I think also my focus on the issues is appropriate Occupy forum activity, while you have been trying to police, judge, & punish all who disagrees with you.

It would appear that we have found the reason you have (admittedly) been banned so many times.

You don't seem like you know what this forum is all about. Not partisan attacks. But disseminating important info/action items and discussing solutions. Specifically the progressive solutions that Occupy believes in.

Take it from someone who has been here longer than you.

May 2012 indeed.

LMFAO.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

I did my first protesst We Got Mail in late October 2011 & received a DVD of the movie the Yes Man for having carried a big old letter to the banks in mid-town,

Then I got on the forum also in late October too, under a different psedonym, and i changed it to Odin because i did not like the one i originally picked out

VQkag2 got here May 30th, 2012, right?... but at his point, that is not so important

While I tried to understand and appreciate what Occupy was about, you set out to have it co-opted into the dem party which i knew & appreciated from DAY 1 that, that was not what Occupy was about

In any event VQkag2, I have NEVER seen anyone in Occupy act in the BASE way that you have on here especially in calling someone you disagree with a "RACIST PIECE OF SHIT"

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

http://occupywallst.org/users/VQkag/

Oct 6 2011!!!!

Get it straight Liar!

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

VQkag2....May 30, 2012. Still even if i am wrong, i would NEVER unjutifiably call someone a "racist piece of shit!"

I mean, it's kinda like comparing 'good', but maybe not perfect apples to extemely 'rotten' oranges, don't ya think VQ.

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

How about you list all your socks, while you're at it?

Liar. Paid Hack. Twinkle-fingerer. Cone of Shame.

Muhaahahahahaha

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Oh so your banning was not because of your misconduct. It was the moderators mistake?

Talk about changing history. You seem a little delusional. I guess your twisting the meanings of your valid banning is on topic, but that don't make it true.

Who else has been banned incorrectly? Or is it just Odin?

LOL. What a joke.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Cone of Shame was very phunny, kag2.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

My banning was no mistake VQ, rather it was intentional, from a partisan moderator tho....

It must be upsetting to you that you can no longer run roughshod over this forum denigrating good people with impunity

Your most recent attempt at maliciously trying to label Builder as a "racist" has been very typical of your behavior on here

And it is totally antithetical to what Occupy is about, but you already know that, I'm sure

I think it may be time to revert back to your 'victim mode' VQ...lol

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

You de man.

I guess that's possibly racist, Odin. LOL.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

VQ will use any unscrupulous practice he can to discredit someone in the hopes of advancing his agenda. Believe me, i know.

~Odin~

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

It must be like, maybe a fulltime occupation for him.

Keeps him off the streets, I guess.

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Familiarity breeds contempt.

I'm tired of discovering I'm talking to just one more or his socks.

Pollutes my consversations with everyone, which is never a good thing.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Honesty isn't too much to ask for, is it?

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

I respect you for that.

It's not that difficult, really.

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Semantics, meaning some people here consider truth to be a rather flexible term.

Present company exluded, of course.

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

Semantics as well.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 7 years ago

The uses/effects of distortions by a secret group upon a larger groups are hard to estimate. When it goes on for years, things get very very screwed up in the world of activism.

Here we are people. We need to learn how to filter ourselfs and get the crap out.

Thanks Builder, for identifying and notifying us of yet one more way our efforts to use free speech are being abridged

BTW, wtf is NPD?

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

NPD is the most common mental illness in the world.

Google it. The acronym is for Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I believe it is the reason that laissez-faire capitalism turned this productive fertile world into a prison for most of us.

[-] 2 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 7 years ago

Amazing, there is a correlation to maintain the delusion and self deception needed to continue, but these are the minions posting here; amazing the directive of laissez-faire capitalism makes it to this level, or posts in this forum; with the same function/effect as the disorder, but on society.

Or, harrowing to consider, human evolution.

[-] -1 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

It's a low point in evolution.

The fact that NPD sufferers climb the capitalist tree faster than others should be ringing alarm bells across the developed world.

We (not me) celebrate narcississm. The whole western world is geared up to the NPD psyche.

And that is what really worries me.

The hardest thing to do, is to convince an NPD sufferer that they are actually mentally ill. Most doctors don't even bother trying.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 7 years ago

Spiritual capitalism will keep them in check, and shame media which promotes and glorifies the NPD. Basically, if they cannot spontaeneously speak it, no one will do business with them.

I feel you are correct, media has been modeling NPD behaviors and making people think they are desirable. Younger generations have grown up in a social-psyco environment contaminated by the modeling on many levels.

Mainly it comes down to the reason that only money matters, which is not capitalism technically (it's sociopathic), because then the narcisisitic image can be maintained in a false economic environment when everyone believes that.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Thanks B. Yes there are some here who slyly try to fit your words into their agenda, which i am well in tune to

The hacks often use the word 'progressive' as code for democrats and try to drag you down that dead-end road,

And the cons twist words around so that neoliberal policies seem wholesome, and try to make you believe that there is something inherently wrong with you for not going along with them

Anyone who has confidence in himself knows better on both counts, and for me it is fun to discredit them with facts and logic

~Odin~

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I've seen YOU connect progressive to democrats (as you are now). No one else. Are you the 'hack' you are referring to?

I use progressive in the way , Chomsky, Wolff, Zinn, & Occupy use it.

Those are facts and logic!

[Removed]

[-] 4 points by factsrfun (8239) from Phoenix, AZ 7 years ago

Odin is a con in sheep's clothing, he would blame Obama for a rainy day and gives a pass to all the GOP does for the sake of unity, pure bullshit he started back chasing me around with his childish "fantsy" till I wrote a poem and he ran away:

Who is Odin? Is he forvikleka? Or Karl Rove?

He’s a pathetic little man

With a pathetic little plan

Wants to twist inside your brain

Make your thoughts insane

Turn your logic into faucets

Pouring out false promises

Of love for all Mankind

Except donkey kind

For while the cons are just misled

The libs are beyond a mend

Democrats with open arms, and supporting policy

Are traps of doom to squeeze the life from thee

But those wearing sheets and holding bloody hangers

Are just lost souls dying to bash the bankers.

Two thousand not so far behind, another Bush awaits

The Greens stand ready by, again to seal our fates.

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I ain't said he is a party man, or a dem, or partisan. Who the fuck cares about the dems. I ain't mentioned them. Odin mentioned them.

When he tried to connect progressive with the dem party.

He has said my use of 'progressive' means I am pushing dems.

I am a progressive. I haven't surrendered the progressive concept to dems, no matter how many times Odin connects them.

I prefer discussing the issues that occupy has taken a stand on, and benefit the 99%.

I have said repeatedly that dems have been a profound disappointment for 30 years as they have moved right and caved in to support conservative policies.

But I mostly do not push dems, I do point out the conservative, tea party, right wing, repub threat to the progressive agenda.

But I avoid the dems.

So what exactly should I let go? Is this part of you NOT attacking me.?

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

On the post telling people how to speak?

Exactly which issue is that related to.?

Perhaps this is related to the tyranny of the majority? Shall we debate the anti immigrant English only issue? Where does occupy stand on that.?

[Removed]

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

There is some value in that. The 2 are the same as far as I am concerned, & of course language, and the misuse of it matters.

Knowing this poster and reading his comments here I see no evidence of that value being discussed.

So I don't think I'm confused, I think the lack of the valuable discussion lends itself to my contention that there are racist, elitist undertones to this post.

[Removed]

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I mean his comments on this thread are about Hebrew, and insulting the comment about not using vulgarity, and he made no comments even slightly related to the deeper value we mentioned.

And the 2 I was referring to was neo liberalism, & neo conservative.

The labels are less important to me. There IS value, but it too easily becomes a distraction from discussing issues and solutions.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Glad to see you have finally decided to leave them in the dust and start moving for real change.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

leave who in the dust?

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Nevermind. ugh.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

If? Are we really wondering about this?

How many times can masochistic keep holding on to something that doesnt exist?

That thing might as well be dead on arrival.

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Oh yes VQkag2, I'm sure everyone here views ME as the 'partisan hack,' and YOU & your multiple pseudonyms as the honest to goodness true Occupiers...lololol

~Odin~

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I didn't say you were a partisan.

I take issue with your connecting progressiveness with Democrats.

And I should assure you Odin that your multiple IDs nor mine are related to occupy.

Progressive solutions are absolutely related to Occupy. Anyone obsessed, preoccupied, fixated on IDs or karma points or voting has lost their way. They are not dealing with the issues that matter.

And anyone concerned about what people here "view us as" again is missing the point. This is NOT facebook, we do not compete with how many friends we have.

Only the issues, and progressive solutions (NOT Dems) is what matters. Anything else is of no interest to me.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Accusing me of multiple IDs now 'Mr Cone of Shame'?! lol

You do remember how you got that, don't you? If not i will be happy to remind you, complete with the date,

In any event, I guess the best defense is always a good deceitful offense

~Odin~

[-] 0 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Now he's posting moveon petition links...

I dont think he got the memo on the failed Dem coopt. And certainly not the Dem/Rep ordered shut down of Occupy.

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

It's not that he doesn't know what Occupy is about, he justs doesn't like it, and hence keeps trying to transform it

~Odin~

[Removed]

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

First Zen, I will never forget you spear-heading an effort on here to get me back after one of my bans, that despite our disagreement on how OWS should progress our struggle

But you and VQkag are not in the same league as you have integrity which i respect, and i knew that before you stuck your neck out for me

VQkag has been trying to co-opt OWS ever since he arrived, and he has used deceit, multiple pseudonyms, and just about every psychological trick in the book to forward his partisan campaign on here. Believe me, I know

He is a 'master' at going from a MALITIOUS attack mode, to 'playing victim'... in a heart-beat too

And he & his multiple pseudonyms, along with the partisan moderators who were here at the time made life a 'living hell' for anyone who didn't agree with him/them out of conscience, as they conspired to get me off here...more than once

I understand that petitions and the like can be helpful, but we will never see the sea change we need by them or at the voting booth anytime soon

And their are many groups which Occupy has alliances with that are doing all those things. And we understand and respect I believe the the clear delineation of how our groups operate, hence our different roles. I know on a personal level from a man I met (who I now consider a friend) at a May Day meeting...... and exchanged several amicable emails with....., and who is a leader of a group called USLAW that,.... that is so.

I have asked this question twice to two different people, and did not get an answer. First ... show me a struggle that sought and achieved systemic...or a sea change without a recalcitrant or radical element in it. Well? And then, if not us, who?

So it becomes a question of, what is Occupy Wall Street's role in the changes we all want to see come to fruition (?), and whether you or i believe that the systemic changes we need will ever come from playing within the now rotten political system. You think so, right? I don't.

There will be many victories (hopefully) and defeats (hopefully not) along the way to what we both hope will be not only a sustainable World, but a World where people are put before profits,

And we and the kindred spirits that agree with our opposing viewpoints on how this movement progresses will feel more justified than ever in taking credit for it, as it will always be arguable

Who gets credit? I could give a shit, but one thing guaranteed i will fight hard to see that Occupy Wall Street is not co-opted by anyone and that we continue PERSEVERING in doing OUTREACH between grass-root groups and individuals; keep building RESISTANCE to the corrupt system including protests; and continue building COMMUNITY along the way. That is what OWS does best, and that I feel strongly is our role in this struggle

And the latter should start now in trying our best to keep our debates respectful. Just one 'jab' before we start....I do believe that I am more handsome than you

~Odin~

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

I have not, nor am I trying to co opt anything. You are blatantly lying about me and offer no evidence.

Stop lying,

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Only one reply waiting for me this morning VQkag. Have you been banned for the toxicity that you bring to this forum?

I have been laying low, often twinkling your good comments, but i knew that if you were given enough rope, you would figuatively hang yourself

I mean you gotta kinda worry when you get outsmarted by a person with Viking heritage VQ...lol as we are not known for our finesse, but are for our tenacity

And you did that (hang yourself) in your over-zealous attempt at trying to malign Builder by falsely accusing him of being a "racist"

I know from PMs that he cares deely about the injustices the indigenous people of Australia have suffered, and that he has, and is going to be working with them soon in Broome, on the northwest coast

Plain and simple VQkag, you are an unscrupulous asshole!

~Odin~

[-] -3 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

You've been outed.

There's no going back now.

Pick a new sock puppet.

See how long you can swing another lie.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

You don't speak for me Odin. I like Occupy just fine. And I NOT trying to transform it.

Stop lying about me.!!

[-] -1 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 7 years ago

Calm down VQ, nobody's lying about you

It's just you feeling that unbearable cyber pressure of no longer having a partisan moderator to protect you

Don't worry tho cause after you get banned a couple of times, it's no worse than getting your feet wet in a puddle...lol

~Odin~

[-] -1 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

Go to this site:

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/occupywallst.org#

Check out "Traffic" and then click the button at the bottom that changes the graph timeline to "max".

Their job was to destroy the site.

[-] 4 points by inclusionman (7064) 7 years ago

Ooooo. It's a conspiracy! You think someone was threatened by THIS site?

LOL Whatta joke.

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Ok, read this:

http://algoxy.com/ows/owsinfiltratingforum.html

and then this:

http://algoxy.com/ows/owsforuminfiltrators.html

Somewhere in that hot-mess is a full admission that the multiple IDs are all about the message and not shooting the messenger and experimentation.

Tell me what you think. Take into consideration that the FOAVC links are included in the site.

[-] -3 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

I honestly just had a very hard time following those two posts.

The author seems to think that ARt5 gets unfairly discriminated against. Im not sure about that.

[-] 1 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Say again.

[-] -2 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

I think he/she hits the nail on the head with this: " We have all been deceived at nearly every corner for decades. As we accept big flashy events with lots of support, we have become accustomed to assume that such large things could not possibly be fake. People from all over the planet were there at the forum because the demonstrations created media attention. The internet does not advertise itself. "

As for the rest, some points are valid, some arent. Plenty of people banned who were pretty active with the groups, and plenty of people blatantly campaigning for Dems without a ban.

I would say that "Art5 as the end all solution" was missing the boat. Although I personally would rather try to organize something like that in my community.

[-] 3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

You do realize that FOAVC is Tea Party, right? Funded by the Koch's.

Great let's run a search on who owns the forum.

Registrant:

Alterra

PO box 61925

santa Barbara, CA 93160

US

805 967 4055

Domain Name: ALGOXY.COM

Administrative Contact:

Brown, Christopher argus1@earthlink.net

PO box 61925

santa Barbara, CA 93160

US

805 967 4055

Technical Contact:

Brown, Christopher argus1@earthlink.net

PO box 61925

santa Barbara, CA 93160

US

805 967 4055

Record last updated 06-27-2011 04:54:21 PM

Record expires on 08-22-2013

Record created on 08-22-2002

Domain servers in listed order:

DNS.PAIR.COM 0.0.0.0

NS7.NS0.COM 216.92.151.254

http://whois.net/whois/algoxy.com


Let's run a search on argus1@earthlink.net

You will see the same types of topics crop up here. Are you seeing this?

[-] 5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

[-] -3 points by Builder (3738) 17 hours ago

Yeah, haven't even packed the bag yet.

Are you keen to see me off this site?

No sign of twinkle-fingers lateley, though his stinkle-fingerer alter-ego has been a heavy presence. Hang your head in lieu of all those stinkled points.

I certainly hope he doesn't do long-term damage to that stinkle-finger. Poor guy. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] 5 points by gsw (2276) 17 hours ago

Don't want to see anyone off the site who should be here, including Inclusionman, who has been better since the election.

The more the merrier. I don't know who stinkled your comments. I only stinkled right wingers like STormcrow2, Kandy4, & eviltrillionaire.

You contributed many past keen insights in my recollection. I think the Ows ship is big enough for 99 percent to be on board.

I think you are upstanding, but also it is time to stop chasing vq. We know he has had multi ids. So do a lot of people. Multi ids on a forum seem pointless in my view, and it's against the rules, but that is expected on an "anarchist" site. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] -3 points by Builder (3738) 17 hours ago

Anarchist my arse.

WTF does being anarchist have to do with hiding behind pseudo identities, and manufacturing consent for your lame-arsed "argument"> ????

The guy's a fruitcake. You might even be him/her, the way you're playing this card. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] -3 points by Builder (3738) 16 hours ago

There it is, people. gsw is vq. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] 3 points by gsw (2276) 16 hours ago

Hahahaha this place is getting more audacious. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (6191) 4 hours ago

You are some kinda paranoid wacko. LOL Leave this person alone. They are not VQkag2. I was. I use only this ID.

You just can't stand even the slightest non negative comment about me.

Pathetic joke ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[+] -5 points by john32 (-231) from Pittsburgh, PA 9 hours ago

VQ??? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] -3 points by Builder (3738) 7 hours ago

(quote) lol...love the minus four on my comment....he must have roused all his screen names to downvote my comment.(unquote)

Only minus four? imangina40 must really like you.

It's testament to your effectiveness that you are being targetted. Feel valued. Or something. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] -3 points by Builder (3738) 9 hours ago

"Better since the election"?

Better than before? ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink

[-] -2 points by john32 (-231) from Pittsburgh, PA 8 hours ago

lol...love the minus four on my comment....he must have roused all his screen names to downvote my comment. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink

[Deleted] [-] -1 points by Builder (3738) 16 hours ago

Hahahahahah. Good one.

Nice multiplayer game.

Never to be trusted again. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink


You might want to start that conversation here

[+] -4 points by OTP (-203) from Tampa, FL 7 years ago

I didnt know what you meant by FOAVC... Who is Chris Brown?

http://thefire.org/case/56.html

[-] 2 points by GirlFriday (17435) 7 years ago

Well, that is a very good question. Isn't it?

Am I somehow supposed to drum up some sort of respect for this guy?

Let me see, multiple IDs...............attempts to play god.............nope can't find it. Now, you want to check out some other great information?

[-] -3 points by whammy2 (-21) 7 years ago

Better talk to the Blacks who speak Ebonics first. Teach them to speak proper English.

[-] -2 points by Builder (4202) 7 years ago

M8. You don't think the younger generation are interested, do you?

Our oligarchy is bending the lingo to suit an agenda. We need to reclaim our heritage. Comprende?