Forum Post: Lessons from my father
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 4:17 p.m. EST by darkhound
(66)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
My father escaped war and famine in a third world country. He and his parents were literally fired upon as they made their escape by boat. The family lost everything and was living in a converted pig-sty for a while. He studied hard. Knew no English, but taught himself by memorizing dictionaries. He eventually aced the SATs, and was accepted into an American university. To save on tuition, he studied hard to finish a four-year degree in three years. At the same time, he worked as a janitor to pay his tuition. He never complained. He put his head down and studied. 4.0 average. He became a multimillionaire (doctor) and is now retired.
I am absolutely disgusted by the young hipster protesters. They grow up in a first world country, don't study hard, and are somehow entitled to a nice cushy job after securing nothing but a liberal arts degree? All the advantages they have over someone like my father they piss away. Instead of studying hard at college (and choosing an employable major), the time is spent partying (or protesting) and simply treated as a way to delay adulthood by 4 years.
There are plenty of good jobs out there. Demand for engineers, scientists, and computer scientists is at an all-time high. Yet America has to import students and scientists from China and India because our kids are too lazy and entitled to study these (relatively more) difficult subjects. Innovation and entrepreneurship - the heart of America's dominance is fading away because our kids whining and smoking weed at Wall St. instead of working hard. No wonder China and India are going to kick our asses this century.
The problem with the perception of college is that it is considered a means to a profession, rather than as a means to an education.
This is contrary to the original conception of higher education, especially during the Renaissance where we saw the genesis of our modern idea of the humanities. The idea of the university was originally to create a sort of renaissance man, i.e. someone who was well-versed in all the subjects one would find in life.
This is one of the reasons that throughout the Renaissance there was no such thing as a major. A student's responsibility was to understand everything. He studied the humanities in order to understand what being a human is all about.
Unfortunately, our modern concept of college throws away much of what is humane about education. Currently, college is a means to a job, or a means to capital.
"Currently, college is a means to a job"
Exactly. And you should treat it as such. Unless you want to pay 150k in tuition for philosophical enlightenment.
Exactly, I agree with that point. If you're paying 150k for philosophical enlightenment, you've already lost that game.
However, we need to realize that an education predicated on the making of money money and a career is a fairly meaningless, and ultimately useless prospect.
Currently, the very philosophy of our college system is damaging our society--it is destroying the very essence of humanity in the name of something faceless and evil: mammon. Neoliberalism seeks to disenfranchise anything unrelated to money: Literature, Art, Philosophy, Music. That is why you hold such an antagonistic view of the Liberal Arts.
Why all these assumptions? I am not young, I am not a Dem, I am not poor - far be it from that - I live really well. If you think jumping on this website and trolling (look up the definition most of you seniors think its some Grimm Fairytale reference) is helping keep us number one - it is not!
Join the movement to remove lobbying from our political process!
A+ in generalizing everyone. We are at the point in civilization where people shouldn't have to take a stint at Wal-Mart to get an EDUCATION. Not everyone wants to be a scientist, everyone DOES want to smoke weed though haha jk
Should it have to be that hard? Certianly the richest country in the world could have lower tuition fees, transportation, helath care , etc that does not require a life of work. Other points include that most people dont have the mental capacity (nature or nurture) to be doctors, engineers, scientists, etc. How many stories of third-world immigrants end up with them working illegally for less than minimum wage? Probably a lot more than your father's example. Besides life isnt about hard work to get other people rich...thats the point. What is the sense of working hard if you dont see any of the benefits. Life is about learning and advancing society collectively, not slaving away to make others rich. Liberal Arts degrees are the best form of education you can get! My father also came from a modest background and worked his whole life as a very successful engineer making a lot of other people rich. He died in February from a massive hard attack with a reduced 401K thanks to the mis-dealings on Wall Street, less social security because he didnt make it to 65 and a bill for 5000 dollars in the mail for the emrgency services that came the day we burried him. Oh, and his insurance company dropped his wife of 43 years two weeks later...
Sorry about your father and the circumstances.
But near everyone has the mental capacity to successfully complete a meaningful and employable degree.
"Should it be that hard" is a useless question. The fact is, you have to work as hard as you need to in order to sustain your family. And it doesn't matter how "good an education" a liberal arts degree is if it is useless in getting a job. You realize that getting a degree is so you can get a job right? It's not for philosophical enlightenment.
Global. Economy.
On the bright side - that means that if I work for an outsourcing and recession proof job then I might finally get the hell out of this pisspot and move to Germany or France or some place. It's still speculation though of course. This may either make me or break me.
America is starting to go back to the Gilded Age....or a totalitarian nation.
I'm sorry that you have such a negative and pessimistic view of life, but I can asure you that life is only as hard as you make it.... If I die without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of at least I would have lived a life twenty fold of a drone working for the riches of other men.
Also -
http://occupywallst.org/forum/accepting-poverty
What kind of job should they have with a liberal arts degree?
They shouldn't expect one unless extremely dedicated. Should have been trained in something else. No one to blame but themselves.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/differences-between-conservative-and-liberal-ideol/
So....no jobs for liberal arts majors. But dont you think a broad based education is a good thing? Or at least worthwhile. I mean, some people arent as good at math and some arent as good at english. I dont suggest our math whizzes get paid less, I am suggesting our english and history people have some fair value and should be capable of making a living. After all, it is the pursuit of happiness that is enshrined in The Declaration of Independence and not the pursuit of money. Worrying about what is bankable is sure to lead to unhappiness. Besides what would we do if we were all engineers?
on my blog
http://blog.richardkentgates.com/
or just the form
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&formkey=dFlNNHJTRlZwMWs5ZjlhTWN0NlZReHc6MQ#gid=0
I keep repeating the same stuff about how certain skills are in very high demand right now. Take a look at this guy, it's shocking. He was offered a job but said, "It's too boring for me. Too meaningless. Too mundane. A machine could have done it easily." So he decided to spend his time protesting unemployment instead of taking a job. A few posts later he talks about how he has computer programming skills.
Uhh Techie...I think he was being satirical. And insulting the protesters.
Also - the OWS people -do- want work. And if we keep up this Rape Trade crap we're just going to have more employers like this -
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-wouldnt-hire-any-of-you/#comment-53226
This doesn't sound like a guy who wants to set America back on track.
Is the last paragraph of the original post satire? It's the truth.
It's good satire.
Sort of like "The White Man's Burden" by Kipling. Give it a read sometime.
Otherwise - maybe we shouldn't be so anti-suicide as a society. He seems like the type that doesn't belong in a world like this.
My mom is a nurse and yet she was LUCKY to find herself a job. Thankfully, nursing is one of those few jobs that can't possibly be outsourced or automated and is ALWAYS in demand (recession and bubble-proof).
You cannot deny that there is an oversupply of labor and a sharp decrease in demand. Why do you think companies now have one guy doing the job of five or seven guys? Cause it's cheaper.
Also - One of the places I looked for a job in was in the garbage collecting industry...never got a call back.
I cannot deny there is an oversupply of "political science" students, "business administration" graduates, "history" majors, "fashion design" scholars, and "English" BAs.
What there is an undersupply of is COMMON SENSE. What kind of lazy idiot chooses these majors if they want a decent chance at a job after graduation?
Uhh...my mom chose NURSING. There is an oversupply of EVERYTHING.
Even an oversupply of lawyers!
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704866204575224350917718446.html
And apparently an oversupply of investment bankers, but I think that has less to do with supply and more to do with demand. (nobody investing and such)
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/01/pf/joshua_persky/index.htm
And you forget - even an oversupply of garbage men.
Whether it be a high school diploma, GED, liberal arts degree, science degree, technical degree, nursing degree, law degree, economics degree, etc...
In a GLOBAL economy there is going to be a GLOBAL supply. And when companies cheap out and hire one guy to do the work of 7 guys...yeah you get the idea. And those cheapskates are usually multinational monoliths that crush small startups to the ground.
No, there is not an oversupply of everything.
http://www.techjournalsouth.com/2011/09/high-tech-job-growth-is-4-times-national-average/
There's a huge, unsatisfied demand in the tech industry. RIGHT NOW. It's just that kids (like these hipsters) are too lazy to study for those subjects.
There won't be an oversupply after the South Korean FTA. Their competitive electronics will KILL our Bay Area tech jobs. This may be the stepping stone to becoming the NAFTA of the US Tech Industry...and you know what NAFTA did to American manufacturing.
Then the only place with even a smidge of demand will be in outsourcing, recession and bubble-proof industries like in hospital, garbage collecting, social services, etc.
It's a GLOBAL economy. Which means GLOBAL supply and demand...except that we live in a world overpopulated by humans AND we have corporations Scrooging out by hiring LESS labor to cut costs...
And who knows? Maybe these protesters will train themselves in high tech jobs cause they see soaring demand...setting the course to a new bubble that will pop. High tech might be the next bubble to burst. YES guys...bubbles DO pop.
We can compete with them. Apple is doing just fine against Samsung.
Your lack of ambition is symptomatic of the malaise afflicting the young of this country.
We can't compete with them until wages become more balanced. That's not happening right now. China won't bring their wages up to allow more competition and our right wing politics won't allow higher tariffs for imports.
-sigh-
You never addressed the issue of bubbles.
Your willful denial is symptomatic of the malaise afflicting the haves of...every century really. It is just like the karma system of India - "You were only born a beggar because you were evil in a past life! If you do well now you will be reborn a rich man in the next!"
Plus - The whole "Oh everybody isn't ambitious enough! They're playing it too safe! Or idiotic!" argument is just as out of touch as "We'd better keep breeding if we don't want an aging population dilemma....in China or the US of A!"
That being said one good thing will come out if we ever -do- have a tech bubble...then 1%ers like you won't have to say "useless Americans".
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
China and India won't kick our butts this century, but I agree with everything else you said.