Forum Post: Differences between conservative and liberal ideology
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 2 p.m. EST by AMCD
(46)
from Antioch, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
On the left side of the street we have a liberal sidewalk and on the right side of the street we have the conservative sidewalk.
A person walking on the conservative side trips on a crack in the sidewalk and falls down sustaining significant injuries. The conservatives gather around the fallen person and start saying how stupid this person is for not watching where they were going. They insult and even kick this person. They do not help and do not care. And blame this person for falling down.
Same thing happens on the liberal sidewalk. Person trips and sustains injuries. Liberals rush to the aid of the injured person. They call for aid and provide comfort.
Not that I would say in real life that conservatives would do this, but this is how I believe they think politically.
Which side of the street do you want to live on?
Left.
And as you can see, this is basically a leftist, liberal movement despite it being "non-partisan".
Have fun voting for Obama
I will, thank you :-)
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/he-made-it-on-wall-st-and-used-it-to-help-start-the-protests/
Note the point in the story where the Adbusters guy says he wants to get the left to protest.
everyone is allowed in. We just happened to have a significant liberal population. And yes we'll be voting for Obama.
No, "we" won't. Maybe you will be but the rest of us who want these fucking wars ended, the PATRIOT Act repealed, the banksers dealt with, and the military-industrial complex reined the hell in, will not be voting for more of the same.
Let me guess, Ron Paul?
I agree with everything you just stated except tending the fed which you did not state but it's in your name. If Obama says he'll do it than I will vote for him. I should have made that clear IF he makes it his platform I will. If not than we better start looking for a 3rd party candidate.
Well he has done nothing he said he would do. The question is why would anyone believe anything he says. And if you believe everything he just said then why wouldn't you support Ron Paul, for not only does he say these things, he means it. He has not wavered in the 30 years he has been in government, a lone voice of sanity and he will not waver now, in our time of greatest need. He is truly an Icon of Freedom, Liberty and everything America should be.
He Tried! It's the Republicans! Congress is 60% Republican. They are holding America Hostage! Pay attention! They scream Obama isn't being by-partisan, what they mean is they want EVERYTHING done thier way.The way they got us into trouble. They say they are going to cut education, Social security ,medicare everything WE NEED. They DO IT, and the Teaparty starts screaming how it;s Obama's fault. If you voted Republican; THIS IS YOUR FAULT!
This is where we disagree. I do not support Republicans blindly and was a democrats until I woke up over the past few years. I disprove of a lot of Republicans and approve of some democrats. I also supported Obama until He didn't bring our troops home and he didn't change the game, the game changed him. Here is what has been proven, we have had bail outs and stimulus from both sides. Only thing this has done is to prove that Government can not create jobs. Also this job plan will also drive up the cost of gas and food and everything even more. This inflation tax hidden in with all of this government spending is hurting me and my family and my friends more then anything. The fact is Obama has spent more money then all other Presidents combined and we have nothing to show for it but even more people out of work. We need a new way not the old way.
Obama said there are 57 countries... Obviously that's true
I agree with everything you just stated except tending the fed which you did not state but it's in your name. If Obama says he'll do it than I will vote for him. I should have made that clear IF he makes it his platform I will. If not than we better start looking for a 3rd party candidate.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
Speak for yourself, you don't speak for anyone else @ OWS
I didn't I said "we'll be voting for Obama" as in liberals. Not OWS which is non-partisan.
Except for a significant chunk who will be voting for Ron Paul
If they are liberals they won't be.
You're the one voice for all liberals now? Look up the blue replican movement, look at what Kucinich has said, look at what Nader has said... go to youtube and hear them say it themselves. Ron Paul + Kucinich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py8cXlLyX18&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLD7459E7224276D87 or Ron Paul + Nader http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYXVD7uBU2s
And your reason for voting for Obama? Was it him authorizing the bailouts? Being the biggest beneficiary to Wall Street money? His excessive time on the golf course?
Why don't you start holding up Obama 2012 signs at your protesters, show the world what the real purpose of OWS is - re-electing Obama
because the alternatives are stark raving bonkers
I don't have to explain myself to a troll like yourself.
I will vote for Obama. My entire family will vote Obama. All my friends will vote for Obama (that's a crap load, I've been bugging them enough) and I will campaign online for him.
But, OWS is non partisan.
You're an idiot. Have fun with 4 more years of the same thing
I bet the dems must be laughing a useful idiots such as yourself for being such easily controlled sheep. They sure won you over by orchestrating this movement by creating the straw man enemy of "Wall Street"
Name one accomplishment from Obama that goes toward this movements agenda
Obama has been disappointing. But, you have to be the biggest idiot in the world unless you are a millionaire. Do you think your precious republicans care about you or can you see that you are spewing re-hashed Fox News bull. I like your term "useful idiots" for how you and the other repub. sheeple believe and put to use the failed principals of trickle-down economics and still blindly claim that it works. Show me your proof.
ArrestAllCEOS....One man's success story does not a viable economy make.
Actually I am a millionaire, and I was born poor too. So I guess "trickle-down" economics worked for me.
Now you've got it. Yes we can!
Change We Can Believe In!
brb donating $500 to Obama so he can reach $1 billion in campaign money
of a great President facing a tough economic challenge? Sure.
Obama 2012! :D
Well what are you waiting for kid, get back out there and protest, but this time hold up your OBAMA 2012 sign.
Yes we can!
They probably just told you that so you stop bugging them.
40-45% of the country approves of Obama.
I can agree to the notion he is married to the economy. I think he'll improve though. Some say we might head for a 2nd recession but I doubt it the data proves otherwise. They continue to point to the stock market but that really is a poor indicator even after all its up and downs it's pretty much where it was half a year ago.
Unfortunately for him it is probably out of this control. What is going on in Europe at the moment is what is threatening the world economy.
It isn't just Obama married to the economy. Basically every incumbent president going back at least 3 decades had their fate decided by the economy. Reagan, Clinton, and GW got lucky. Carter and Bush Sr. did not.
soon back to 50% .
Or just as easily to 30%. Obama is married to the economy. Whether he deserves to be or not is beside the point. If the economy picks up, he looks good next year. If not, Romney will give it a shot.
Blitzer has a little piece looking at the latest poll data from this past week. Check it out it is a quick read.
http://situationroom.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/17/blitzers-blog-poll-numbers-bad-for-obamas-reelection-prospects/?hpt=hp_t2
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
Republicans and Democrats all drink from the same corrupt trough. Today, Republicans vs. Democrats are like Coke vs. Pepsi. It’s all the same! They’re all scumbags!
[Removed]
I want to live on the side of the street where the people are united enough to control their government to get the sidewalk fixed so no one else trips and falls!
oh you left libertarians
this is certainly one of the most ridiculous notions I have ever read. The liberal would more than likely call a lawyer, the conservative would think 'well, I should have been watching where I was going".....that's how I think of the left/right sides of the street. (And I should know, I work for personal injury lawyers, seen many more liberals suing than conservatives!).
I was going to leave a comment and say that's a biased metaphor... but lately it really isn't
How can you shout about death panels one year and then the next cheer at a debate when the moderate asks whether you should just let people without health insurance die? I really need a conservative to answer that for me. I want to be unbiased, but the right just blows my mind these days...
I agree that it was sad to see so many cheer when that was said.
How do you know the 2-3 people who cheered were conservatives? Or even Republicans? Surely you can't be that arrogant.
But they are the loudest voice these days and the rest of the Republican party and conservatives simply are not disowning them. Ron Paul didn't reprimand those people for cheering. Rick Perry didn't reprimand them for cheering the execution of over 200 more criminals than any other state. And hey, I understand being in favor of the death penalty, I'm not but I understand it. Cheering for it though??? Fox news doesn't reprimand these people or say "In all fairness, nobody is talking about death panels". If this isn't what the conservative movement in this nation is about then why don't I see conservatives standing up to these people and saying "NO! You have gone too far!"
1)Because politicians NEVER want to offend someone who might want to end up voting for them!
2) Because the conservative movement in this country has learned that it is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Why bother responding at all when you're accused for what you DON'T say as much as you are for what you DO say? Blamed for what you DON'T do just as much as you are for what you DO. Guilty for what your words or actions DON'T mean just as much as for what they DO mean.
The Left-in marginalizing and silencing and laying blame on innocent conservatives for decades-has effectively painted us as such bad guys, that I'm sure that at least some of us realize that we've got nothing left to loose.
You get back to me when the Democratic party, the MSM, and progressives stop embracing murderers, dictators, terrorists, and liars and we'll have a nice conversation about it then ok?
How do Democrats embrace murderers, dictators, and terrorists? And don't all politicians embrace liars? I guess the ones with low self-esteem don't.
Fair enough, I shouldn't expect politicians to stand up for what is right. They want votes, Dems or Reps. I understand your frustration, and believe me when I tell you that the left feels the same way. The real problem is that we can't talk to each other because of the bozos who cheer death or call everyone Hitler are too damn loud. Because we don't hear any conservative commentators calling those fools out, some people on the left are starting to think the right really believes this stuff. The right these days have a very monolithic representation in politics and the media. It's far more common to see a Dem voting against the party than to see a Rep doing so. You rarely see conservative commentators correcting themselves or each other, but every day NPR has a segment where they air corrections and give voice to people who disagree with the point of view they took on a story. Please correct me if I'm misinformed, but I just don't see self-critique on the right, and that's scary. It makes the left feel like the right has banded together to destroy us and exile us from politics and the media, particularly when words like "real Americans" are used. I do apologize if you feel like I lumped you in with the nut jobs that cheered death at that debate, but that is the face of the right these days, and I don't see anyone out there trying to reclaim the right from them.
We can talk to each other. No one can actually keep us from doing that.
From this side, the left don't call out their hysterical spokespeople for their lies or insults either. But I'd be a fool to think that 10 people, or 30, or even 300 people actually represents everyone else who falls in their category. Conservative commentators will call each other out, and their audiences do the same when the evidence supports that they've actually said or done something wrong. But we also believe that even people who do or say stupid things have the right to free speech and to express their opinions. You cannot police the world.
As far as Reps voting against their party-you might want to look into how PISSED many many Reps were with Boehner. Many Tea Party Republicans are bucking the system and the Party liners HATE them. But let them hate. There's work to do.
You have to be misinformed (or have been living under a rock) if you don't remember seeing the hundreds of news stories and media people and celebrities calling the Tea Party people, stupid, insane, inbred, racists, anarchists, Anti-Americans, who want to destroy the government and keep all the money for themselves. Come on! We feel EXACTLY like the "left" has banded together to destroy us and exile us from politics and the world quite frankly. I've even read posters here saying that.
If you can't see the faces of the good, honest, hard working, patriotic, and noble people living their daily lives who claim to fall under the title of "right" or right leaning, then you either aren't looking very hard, or you are looking right past them.
Fair enough, I apologize, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't good people who call themselves conservatives or would title themselves as "right". My parents consider themselves conservative, but haven't voted Republican since Regan. I guess the biggest problem, then, is that the Republicans don't represent mainstream conservatism in this country anymore. That said, it's my perception that the "tea-party candidates" and those that put on the face of the tea party are some extremely negative people with very hostile rhetoric and some very off-the-wall notions. The tea party started out as a people's movement, and I loved how they got people involved in politics, and had regular meetings making politics part of life. But it's just hard to respect the movement anymore. I'm sure I'll feel the same way about OWS if it gets taken over by the extreme left and promoting the worst kinds of Marxists and communists, but for now I enjoy the debate, the activism, and the liberal pressure it applies to our national politics. Even Republican's are talking about the issues raised by OWS now, and that's at least progress, from my perspective. I just hope it doesn't become a movement of hate. Right now it really isn't. The hate is there, and there are plenty of people that want it to be about hate, but there are also lots of people with open arms and open minds.
I'm glad to hear that. I hope you are able to protect it and keep it focused on the problem and not on "the others".
Trust me, the Tea Party isn't fond of many Republicans either. There are a great many of them that the Tea Party plans to eject on the next election cycle, so the idea that the movement belongs to the Reps is an illusion that some Reps and some media people choose to believe in.
How is it that no insurance will kill you? They are covered by medicare, medicaid or emergency rooms. If you go to the emergency room, you receive treatment.
Concerning death panels, to choice is taken away from you.
I realize that heathcare is A LOT deeper than this...
Yes, they'll treat you in the ER, but they'll also send you the hefty bill sending you into bankruptcy.
How is "emergency room socialism" any better than government socialism? If you mandate that the er has to take everyone, then those who can pay will still be paying for those that can't, only instead of paying for cheap preventative care you are paying for expensive emergency care. That's the opposite of fiscally conservative, that's fiscally wasteful.
Also, http://www.politicususa.com/en/tea-party-cheers-death-uninsured That just blows my mind...
No insurance kills when a non-acute illness is allowed to become too damaging to treat. This does happen in this country.
because I am not subjected to ER Socialism, while if they implement government control I would be... Yes, it is wasteful. I would prefer everyone was financially capable of taking care of themselves, but that is not the reality.
If they implement government health care, we would all be subjected to the lowest common denominator.
BTW, the ER already has to take everyone.
I know that the ER has to take everyone. I had appendicitis when I was unemployed and uninsured. The hospital swallowed my bill.
My point is that you are subjected to "er socialism" in that you have to pay for it every time you visit a hospital with insurance or enough money that you can pay your bill. A government healthcare system would be no different, expect instead of forcing the hospital to swallow it, the government would.
Let me clarify. I'm not talking about communism. I'm not talking about forced care. I'm not talking about removed choices or rights. I'm talking about public clinics. In many European countries you can go to a public clinic and get free basic preventative and emergency care. If you want more than that there are private hospitals that charge. Socialized healthcare absolutely does not mean being subjected to the lowest common denominator, neither in theory nor as practiced in Europe for the last several decades. What it means is that there is a safety net that catches the uninsured and does so in a way that is more fiscally efficient than the "er socialism" we have in America.
I agree that some European countries have done it and can do it right, yet I do not believe that we can do it correctly in the US. Once the Democrats get their hands on health care, and once the Republicans get their hands on health care, it will not be JUST health insurance, it will be all of health care. For example, they were already talking about passing legislation so that women could get breast cancer scans before the age of 45. We will have to pass through the government to make that happen.
If it was JUST health insurance, it would be one thing, but look at all of the politicians that will want their hand in it, controlling it for their own power.
And think about this, what would happen to the health care once the Republicans are in charge again? If the government has the power over health care, wont the Republicans bastardize it to their own means? Do you really want them to have that power?
arg, partisanship... Good point, I'm moving to Sweden ;-)
But really, if we can get our media under control and send the message that the people want our politicians to work together, then maybe it's not all that hopeless. We need conservatives to make sure the liberals don't over reach. We need liberals to make sure conservatives aren't being too stubborn. Unfortunately the [edit: Republicans] are clearly out for a giant power grab these days and have brainwashed themselves with their "real America" garbage. Sigh.
We'll weather this storm... (keep saying that meep, keep saying it)
small correction. The Republican politicians are out for a power grab...
Left because it is the correct way of treating you fellow citizens. Apparently America forgot that memo.
Do you really think just because I believe in a limited Federal Government that I want to see people get hurt and no one do anything about it? I would be to there aid as fast I could. I believe no one should be turned away or be deprived of medical care. I just don't believe that its the job of the government to do it and we should look for a better solution. I do not like the idea, that because I'm a conservative, I am heartless and don't care about my fellow man. I have donated many times to the Red Cross and others. I do not have a lot of money to spare and I go with out things to do this like skipping lunch that week.
This just blows my mind: http://www.politicususa.com/en/tea-party-cheers-death-uninsured
Unfortunately not everyone feels the way you do and the right just keeps driving harder and harder to the right.
The thing is that we currently have a form of what I would call "er socialism" in this country. If you go to the er sick, they have to take you. If you can't pay, the hospital ends up swallowing the bill, everyone else who can pay or has insurance ends up paying for your care. The fact is that emergency care is the most expensive care, so we are actually being incredibly fiscally un-conservative by relying on emergency rooms to socialize our health care. So the only motivation leftists can see for the right's insistence on the status quo is a social conservative mentality of social Darwinism, sink or swim. So you may be a caring and reasonable person, but the right as a whole these days just doesn't look that way.
"Not that I would say in real life that conservatives would do this, but this is how I believe they think politically."
Charity is the typical deflection by the way. It's no way to run a society, and if you look at history before representative government with universal suffrage (and even then; the history of our pre-modern-social-contract Gilded Age, when labor could be abused to no end), those with the ability to help have, on balance, exploited and abused those in need of help.
I respect your opinions. I will have to agree to disagree with you on this issue. Thanks for the civil debate,
Ditto.
I have heard and read that democratic senators are encouraging a run on the banks, that Union bosses are encouraging these demonstrators to quit paying their bills. What kind of solution is that? Collapse the businesses that employ the people, that pay taxes to support the government that give away entitlements? That doesn’t make sense. I say they are protesting in the wrong place. Whether right or left, liberal or conservative, democratic or republican – whatever your political views are - most all people hated to see big business bailed out. And both parties had a hand in it -both republican and democratic alike. Obama is as crooked as Bush - Boehner as crooked as Pelosi, Reid as crooked as McConnel, it's not capitalism you should be against - it's government. Pennsylvania Avenue is where the problem is, not Wall Street.
Agreed
Great for you. But, you can't be everywhere. You have a family and you are busy at work you can't possible help everyone who needs it. Only the government can.
Stop trying to redraw the party lines within #OWS. Conservatives who want to join the movement don't need to adhere to all the extraneous bullshit the republican party adds to being conservative. Right-leaning people don't have to be savage capitalists with no human decency. The fact that both sides have become convinced of that at some point is insane. I'm not saying there are no differences. But I think the real differences begin after large consensus on campaign financing reform, stock market regulation and breaking up unhealthily giant banks and corporations. Conservatives don't think monopolies and oligopolies totally jive with capitalism. Only twilight-zone Republican capitalism is like that.
Thanks, Nick. That was well expressed.
Let's fix the sidewalk.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/do-not-allow-multinationals-a-tax-break/
The problem of you guys is that you are only having 2 parties.
That is no real choice - often it means to make a choice between pest and cholera.
LETS DROP THE titles and the divides between people - conservatives and liberals - they are nasty words and frankly, as oceanweed says multiple times here !! there are differences - HUGE differences and when its all said and done, the blockading and the filibustering and the "my #### is bigger than your's" game HAS GOT TO END...
we are moving to CHANGE the systems - that includes the present habitual behaviors that our government has in place to just argue till the cows come home because POWER TRIPS are at play.
The truly best dynamic we should be pushing for in our government is to have every PUBLIC official be just that - Serviing their public who voted them in - why? BECAUSE the voters believe their man/woman is going to be the most effective at speaking for their general public/communities at large who again , THEY REPRESENT!!
Along with changing our government's MINDSET and BEHAVIOR there has got to be a huge change in how big business behaves...
Make Corporations Responsible for Communities at large... they need to be responsible actors in this game - they need to be forced to change ... Read Neale Walsh ... says it perfectly ... any corporation - all employee salaries are visible - each knows what each is making... cap the salary level where above this any profits get cut - percentage to the work force... percentages to management - they get paid more for a reason and are not hourly for a reason- they are paid high enough already to make the hard decisions... workers making the product, workers keeping the quality high and making management happy deserve the biggest bang... now once you have that you take another percentage and GIVE to programs - GIVE to charity ... you make your American Corporations RESPONSIBLE - put this into legislation - ADD THIS TO OUR LISTS OF DEMANDS: CHANGE EXISTING Legislation - we need to see Banking Regs change - we need to change the SEC rules and regs... we need to change the way corporations are allowed to do business. THEY MUST be made into responsible bodies that support their communities... Make Corps Responsible to the Communities at large...
we change this we change the world into a better place for all of us
I'm a fiscal conservative so there is too much danger walking on either sidewalk. I'll stay in the middle of the road. I don't support Obama's health car plan and yet I believe that all people should have access to health care and preventive health care. I support Medicaid and yet I don't support the tremendous amount of waste. I support welfare benefits but I don't support these same benefits if they only create another generation of poor individuals. When someone needs aid I want to provide more than comfort. I would rather provide these individuals with working wages and benefits that encourage them to support the communities they live in and the benefit to make enough money to put aside for themselves.
Both left and right do not represent the peoples interest. They both agree to spend more. And they both fund the wars. The 99% of congress vote in this way because the banks fund their campaigns with bribes and payoffs.
So where does that leave us all? In the streets, screaming for the end of fractional reserve banking, and the Casino Gulag Crony Collectivist Too Big Too Fail Policies that the biggest banks always lobby for.
It leaves us in the middle of the road in rush hour traffic waiting to get smashed in all the confusion. Carefully research the bankers crimes, and its easy to see what the focus should be. TRILLIONS in theft sent to offshore banks without congressional approval.
Heres how it really works:
On the left side of the street we have a liberal sidewalk and on the right side of the street we have the conservative sidewalk.
A person walking on the conservative side trips on a crack in the sidewalk and falls down sustaining significant injuries. The conservatives gather around the fallen person, they try and help him up if he can walk, or call for aid if he can't. They think the person should be more careful next time, but feel much sympathy for them.
Same thing happens on the liberal sidewalk. Person trips and sustains injuries. Liberals immediately stop, they get pretty angry shouting curses at the government for having a crack in the sidewalk that somebody could trip on.They form a comity of people to ensure that no one can ever trip again. They put regulations on sidewalk making so that there are no cracks in any of them and each one is repaired every time a hairline appears. They then force the other side to contribute more to their sidewalk regulations that are now mandatory for both sides.
Not need for this sort of divisive posts, what has it to do with the influence of money on politics anyway?
Then how do you explain that conservatives are more charitable then Liberals, and donate more every year then Liberals do.
It's even worse, they don't want to fix the sidewalk.
Have you walked through the suburbs lately?
Apparently conservatives don't believe in sidewalks and consider anyone without a car a third-class citizen.
I don't think anyone's poured a new sidewalk in this country since some time in the 1940s.
i wish we could stop linking liberal with democrat and conservative with republican.....i also don't want to have to choose a side of a street to live on by my ideas. lol people are not split up like this ...if someone you like offers you a hug your going to be very liberal with that hug...if someone you dislike throws you a punch your going to react conservatively.
I hate to fall for troll bait, but here it goes.
The way that the general population views liberals and conservatives is a misunderstanding of terms that started with the New Deal legislation.
Liberals, traditionally (and from a poly sci standpoint) believe in limited government and protecting personal liberties.
Conservatives believe in a government that is more involved in the daily lives of people and often has a religious undertone.
I really get annoyed with the misuse of these terms. The confusion started during FDR's administration because they wanted to describe the New Deal in a way other than calling it socialism (which it was) because of the negative stigma associated with that term at the time.
If you want to know, stop by my site!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saturday-Night-Politics/194650163906116
Or the other scenario... On the left side of the street, someone falls. A government agent comes up, holds a gun to everyone's head and demands money to pay for the healthcare costs of the person who tripped. The agent helps themselves to some of the acquired cash (to pay for his salary), gives some to the later hospital, medical staff, ambulance crew, and also to help pay for wars overseas.
On the right hand of the street, people actually have genuine charity and help the guy up out of the goodness in their hearts. Offering him a ride to the hospital freely and in good will.
United we the people stand and divided we fall! So where are all these steps heading? I assume most agree there is no doubt the collapse of the dollar as the worlds reserve currency is in our future, but the question I have is before they allow that to take place will they create a world war? The whole world system is setup on debt money that is idolatry money, call/see it as you want, but it’s causing the constantly repeating cycle that gets worse with each generation until the cycle re-starts post every major war. Debt is actually part of what controls morality by keeping unrestored balance! I try everyday to see further through the smoke!!! The Obama admin role in Occupy Wall Street is a classic move right out of the Hitler play book. On the surface it’s the unions funded by Adbusters Vancouver, British Columbia, and George soros is funding asbusters not to mention the communist party USA. Their next goal is to bring down the U.S. financial system. The final end goal is a final push for socialism to eliminate capitalism in the western world. Those uncovered emails and documents showing the real powers behind Occupy Wall Street is a collection of anarchists, socialists, labor unions, and foreign terrorists – all of whom are currently being supported by those in the Democratic Party. Behind all of that smoke is the same cartel that killed Kennedy, they have controlled every president since and now OWN wall street, the same ones that also backed Lenin, Stalin, Hitler & now today back Obama. Many cannot connect the dots because they dont know history so I recommend they watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho
Cronyism in Washington whether from the left or right is the enemy to the people that is destroying our country. The only planned goal from Obama UP the chain of command is to come out of occupy Wall Street riots with martial law to initiate the next step to make Obama Dictator. These people today protesting don’t even realize they are also being used as foot soldiers of who they despise the most & of Communism. It took decades to confuse them through media, US dept of ED, hollywood & it is likely they are too deeply misguided to figure it out until it's too late. The whole Wall Street protest movement is just another sign so many people are in the transition of awakening to political reality. Many still at the stage of blaming Democrats, or Republicans, Obama, Bush or ANYONE with money, proving they are still missing the big picture that most of the US govt is run by, bought & paid for by the people who have amassed most of the wealth as the Top 1% of the U.S. population. Corrupt politicians representing their backers, NOT voters is the reality & they pass legislation that not only gives the super rich every advantage, but also free money through Quantitative Easing/Bailouts, not to mention zero accountability in the design. In addition, they own/control the mainstream media leaving the majority in America divided focusing their energies on decoys & partisan smokescreens.
Our thoughts & ideas as conservatives & liberals as separate is simply history repeating itself, its all by design for the sheeple. Its as visible in today's events as in how history clearly proscribes the ruling class thought it was their eminent destiny to rule the world, & today still use propaganda to narrow any message for the people to fit their now growing centralized global objectives. At least the ones that have taken the streets in protest on wall street are not complicit, just misguided/confused but unfortunately are assisting the communist plan America was warned about in the 1960s! The 0.1% are getting everything in place and when they do the Chinese, Japanese, Saudis & Europe will all dump their trillions at the same time causing mega hyperinflation. On one hand I am convinced we are in for one hell of a battle. Just like Hitler Obama & those backing him would rather see America destroyed to a medieval level before giving up power, all because the necessities of preserving America are irrelevant to their goal! But I still think we the people can win this battle, we have one more chance in 2012, Europe doesn't. I want to see hundreds in this govt tried for treason. But also I should enjoy my time now, because at some point on the road to victory I may go down during the battle, or end up in a FEMA camp detained for high treason guilty for wanting to end the Federal Reserve & re-instate OUR Constitution!
Careful, this metaphor is oversimplified and diversionary. This is a similar to tactics used by mass marketing/ Corporate media to divide the people into neat groups to market products to... divide and conquer...
There is no real difference other than the polarized few and those that have drank the kool aid and have chosen a side.
All this does is divide us and turn us into each other’s enemy
While we are debating over petty crap the government in collusion with multinational corporation is selling ot
But don't stop the real battle--- liberals bad, cause all the problem, conservatives bad cause all the problem
People wake up your minds are being distracted while we are descending into poverty
OWS - Obama Wins Second
Nonsense. Try this analogy. A woman with three kids out of wedlock walks on the sidewalk. Her kid falls on the sidewalk and hurts himself. The old lady who owns the house and is responsible for the sidewalk does not have the money for sidewalk repair. The old lady gets sued. Is the woman with the illegitimate kids a conservative or a liberal?
Nonsense. Try this analogy. A woman with three kids out of wedlock walks on the sidewalk. Her kid falls on the sidewalk and hurts himself. The old lady who owns the house and is responsible for the sidewalk does not have the money for sidewalk repair. The old lady gets sued. Is the woman with the illegitimate kids a conservative or a liberal?
From my long experience in dealing with governments in more than a dozen of them I assure you that if you slash more than half of government officials or the so-called public dis-service and throw them to the streets you will definitely get better, effective and efficient administrations.
I am sure they are the source of corruption and corporate greed support. I have never seen in my long life any government department or an office functioning properly. They are excesses, idles, and the antithesis of innovation, ethics and productivity.
People must have regular and uninterrupted access to monitor what are going on in any government office, low or high, including the judiciary, the police, the security, and the military.
When you deal personally with a successful private business you feel your power as a valued customer even if it was unethical business. But when I personally deal with any government office I feel their arrogance and wickedness; I wish I could spit on their faces.
The public service anywhere in the world is ten times it’s optimal size, and they are very good in employing the failures and the dishonest for life.
To Occupy Wall Street and bring social, political, and economic justice people must axe useless officials first.
Food for thought...
Compassion does not always announce itself. It is not always exercised in a manner for all to see. I ask rhetorically, which is more compassionate....
to have a vet put your suffering pet to sleep, or to continue heroic measures to keep it alive? to give a hungry man food, keeping him dependent on hand-outs, or to teach him a skill so he can be self-sufficient? to give an addict drugs to ease their immediate pain, or to get them into treatment?
Your question posits a framework wherein half the population are despicable human beings who care not about anyone. I do not believe this is true. Indeed, the world would be a much uglier place if that were so.
If we want to achieve peace and a better world for all, we need to try to understand each other and each others motives, not cast aspersions and vilify others.
There is no difference now, career /lawyer /politcians are trained persuaders, They went to the same schools, had the same classes and professors, dress the same, live in the same gated communities so to speak, belong to the same fraternities and clubs, go to the same parties, children attend the same private schools,...but more importantly seek public office to earn a living and gather wealth for themselves and serve the same interests who give them money, and jobs for thier family members...the same two hundred large donors..herein Virgina in our worsening economy career politicians have doubled thier wealth and continue to increase thier wealth when elected to public offices...even municipal while the wealth and well being of citizens decrease...get it, sure you do. There are no good career politcians and none of them represent citizens or our Republic's interests...only thier own.
There is no difference now, career /lawyer /politcians are trained persuaders, They went to the same schools, had the same classes and professors, dress the same, live in the same gated communities so to speak, belong to the same fraternities and clubs, go to the same parties, children attend the same private schools,...but more importantly seek public office to earn a living and gather wealth for themselves and serve the same interests who give them money, and jobs for thier family members...the same two hundred large donors..herein Virgina in our worsening economy career politicians have doubled thier wealth and continue to increase thier wealth when elected to public offices...even municipal while the wealth and well being of citizens decrease...get it, sure you do. There are no good career politcians and none of them represent citizens or our Republic's interests...only thier own.
On the left, when you fall they sue the city that created the sidewalk, the laborer that installed it, the property owner .. They blame everyone else but themselves for falling. They help, but they have to steal the money from her purse in order to first get a bar of soap to clean themselves off, but if, after they ate, they still remember the victim, and then explain that in order to get her money back, she needs to sue the conservative on the botherside who still had money.
On the right side, you have those who stop and help. They chide the person for not paying attention, but then help get that person off the ground. They tell em to shake it off and be a man, the injury isnt that bad, if you want to cry like lil girl, go across the street.
Me, I prefer to be sitting in the grass watch both dumbasses moan like fools when they realized, that the sidewalk were uneven to beginwith, and they are both morons for not paying closer attention.
Republicans and Democrats all drink from the same corrupt trough. Today, Republicans vs. Democrats are like Coke vs. Pepsi. It’s all the same! They’re all scumbags!
This cannot ladies and gentlemen become and bitching contest between the right and the left... we must consolidate the keenest minds... and the brightest intellectuals... FROM BOTH SIDES. in order to fundamentally talk about the needs of our people... this constant battle between parties MUST STOP.
The difference? Rich Liberals will hold a fundraiser to raise a few bucks for the less fortuate, while the rich Liberals make connections with fellow big shots, from humble Fifth Avenue backgrounds. Rich Conservatives just cut right to making the connections and discuss how to get the dirt poor to pay all the taxes...
I'm facing north, heading west.
I’m glad you asked! Liberals are left conservatives are right. Liberals believe in science conservatives believe in the supernatural. Liberals are social and conservatives are anti-social. Liberals believe in a democratic form of government conservatives believe in a free-market government. Liberals are rational conservatives are irrational. Liberals are anti-war conservatives are pro-wars. Well, you get the picture.
Liberals like to pretend they know exactly what everyone else is, and all of those things are of course evil.
Only their actions. It’s about faith now?
You weren't talking about actions. You were talking about beliefs.
No, that’s whom they claim to be.
Ok. Then you'll be able to show me where:
ALL conservatives claimed they only believe in the supernatural-and never science.
ALL conservatives claim to be anti-social.
ALL conservatives claim to believe that a "free-market" is an actual form of government AND believe only in that.
ALL conservatives claim to be irrational.
ALL conservatives claim to be pro-war.
I'll wait.
Republicans are absolutely anti-social because they cannot coexist with their counterparts. Republicans are anti gays, anti immigration, anti social services, anti abortion, pro death penalty, pro guns, pro wars and against affirmative action. Should I go on? www.wikipedia.org/wiki/RepublicanParty(United_States)
I walk in the middle of the street...AHHHHH
Left because we the people are the owners of everything under and above the ground and any corporation interested in explore these recourses must pay us royalties. What’s wrong with that?
Liberals just need a nipple to suck on. pull your self up by your boot straps lefties! accomplish something on your own with out the help of the government. you can do it, I have faith in you.
Conservative side: "Do not blame us that YOU tripped! Pick YOURSELF up, dust YOURSELF off!"
Liberal side: "Oh dear God, how horrible of us - this is OUR fault that YOU fell! Please, let us all take the money of the wealthiest person here to pay your medical bills - you shouldn't have to worry about that, even though it was your fault. It's really the wealthy person's fault, for being wealthy, when you are not!"
YES! thank you anonymous123 for some sanity in here. responsibility has gone by the wayside to these people.
Funny, I see it like this...
A man falls on the left sidewalk and the liberals all cry and weep and file law suits for unsafe walking conditions. After receiving a settlement for more money than they will ever make in their lifetimes, they use the money to petition their liberal congressman with lobbyists to ban all sidewalks unless they have protective cushions installed in-case of falls. The sidewalk installer can't afford to install the cushioned sidewalk for the same price and raises his price to cover the entire increase in material cost. The liberals refuse to pay the increased costs for cushioned sidewalks that are government mandated. They decide to stage a protest in front of the sidewalk installer's home which involves more liberals and people walking on unsafe sidewalks. Inevitably more falls occur and sidewalk fall injuries increase while no new sidewalks are being installed or repaired including overpriced cushioned sidewalks. Finally the protest grows so large that because of the filth and human waste being left on the sidewalk, the protesters move the protest to the street. A large truck drives by and fails to see the protest. the truck runs over nearly all of the liberal protesters and most are injured severely. More lawsuits and cushioned truck bumpers follow. Etc. Etc. Etc. Until the end of time...
The conservatives on the right sidewalk see what is happening, they offer assistance but are spit on and laughed at for also being people of faith. They hold a prayer meeting to pray for healing for all the injured but none of the liberals believe they can be healed by the lord because their eyes are shut to reality. The conservatives continue to pray until finally the liberals come for them and hang them in the streets and label them as zealots.
Sincerely, A conservative who can actually read, understands american history and knows when false logic and lies are being used to control morons and force them into the streets...
PS: You all forgot to look towards Faith and the Church in your time of need, but instead you looked toward Man and his Evil ways (Government) for help. This will inevitably haunt you and your's and your life will never be fulfilled... It's no longer acceptable to blame OUR sins and failures on being "Just Human", We ALL were created in the God's Image and such, any failure of ours is our own fault and punishment is due. Only Jesus Christ can pay for these failures we have all brought on ourselves of our own doing. The only TRUE AND HOLY REVOLUTION WILL COME IN REVELATION AT THE HAND OF THE LORD when ALL (Including you and I) will see his grand plan... We all must Pray and Repent, be Faithful and Fear the Lord before time runs out...
Beautifully said.
AMEN brother! and thank you
All we need is prayer and hard work for the Lord says "We have much work to do". God Bless and pray for the lost, they need it the most.
conservative's would come to aid and help the person and not look to blame anyone for the fall. liberals would also come to help but would also look to blame some one for the crack in the sidewalk, sue someone, and create some sort of stupid government regulation to prevent future cracks. we don't need the government to regulate every little thing.
If the right fringe got its way, there'd be no 911 to call, and if the person didn't have medical insurance, they wouldn't allow them into the emergency room either.
No false logic or bias in you is there?
Also, to be fair, (and I am really honest I want to see people REACHING to both "sides" if we really mean what we say about representing the 99%!) where are potential pitfalls to the liberal "side" of this? Or if not actual pitfalls, how do you feel that liberals lose the publicity war with conservatives? So in this example (an excellent one) what do you think the equivalent conservative example is that "those crazy liberals live on the side of the street where they _ " ?
Ok, interesting thought. And this is definitely how the liberal side of the equation views things.
I am sick of this kind of stuff myself. I am not conservative, but I know a lot of conservatives who are quite compassionate people. There tend to be many Christians, and Christianity (traditionally at least) demands compassion. So why do you think the failure exists for them to take their compassionate beliefs and impulses and translate them into political life?
I'm genuinely interested in a real answer to this question, something that delves into the psychology and history of this, and remains sympathetic to the people themselves if not their actual political beliefs. The only way we can make sure we are speaking to both "sides" of the aisle of the 99% is if the conservative "side" feels that we understand their concerns and are listening and not judging. That does not make what they think "right" but it is important to understand where they are coming from as people.
Maybe I can help.
The vast majority of "conservatives" that I know, myself included, are hard working, compassionate, practical, and down-to-earth people. They believe in doing the best you can, even if it means you fail or fall once in a while. Because they know from experience that they have become stronger and more determined by falling and getting up themselves, they believe in helping others to find this out for themselves as well. They realize that people can become weak when others tell them they don't have to get up or try again-that someone else should be doing it for them.
Christians who read the Bible know that Jesus Christ's apostles taught His followers to work together and expect nothing more than you deserved. They preached that someone who is unwilling (which is different than unable) to work should not eat the food of those who did the work. They taught that family, and extended family, was the first line of help and assistance and then the Church members. They never said a word about Rome or the government.
Christians who read the Bible also know that "coveting" what someone else has is every bit as much a sin as stealing or being selfish is. They have no problem helping out the truly hungry, the truly sick and afflicted, and those who are widowed or suffering due to no fault of their own. They RESENT LIKE HELL knowing that the money they willingly pay in taxes often does even reach those people because there of bureaucracy and too many people abusing the system who aren't as needy as they claim to be.
Justice to them, is truly JUST. It doesn't favor a poor man just because he is poor and it doesn't favor a rich man just because he is rich. They know that judging someone to be a liar or a thief or a corrupt individual is serious business and that in order to be JUST they must be willing to examine all the evidence and facts BEFORE they accuse anyone. They'd want that same treatment if they were the ones being accused, so they offer it to everyone else too.
Bearing false witness is also a sin, and they do all they can to avoid it. But because they won't "jump on the bandwagon" with those who are ready and willing to throw blame around and believe that someone is guilty just because they WANT them to be, they get ridiculed and mocked. If "the rich" are proven to be guilty of all the crimes they are accused of, the right will be the first ones demanding punishment and justice be done. (Note-the right are never the ones demanding that prisoners be released or given more comforts etc. are they?) But if the left "likes" the criminal or feels, um...like bad for them....they'll always be the first ones to say "He/she didn't really mean it" or "They didn't know what they were doing"....or "Let them break the laws...it isn't really hurting anyone".
want to surf on both sides!
traders rules!
I'm about as far right as you can get! And your thoughts about how we think are way wrong!
I go out of my way to help people. I personally make urns on my lathe for families that can't afford a decent burial. I provide food for the panhandlers that come to my door. I help with medical expenses to those that can't afford it. I've lived in my home for over four years... all but about one year of that time we've taken somebody in and provided for them completely.
The reason I can do this is because I make money! I worked hard, went to school for 11 years, paid off student loans and keep my nose clean so I don't get fired. I saved money, I invested wisely, I delayed instant gratification so I could experience debt free gratification later.
I am actually insulted that the author really believes we conservatives think the way he describes. In the end, we're all humans and do care for other humans. We too want equality... but we have a different definition...
Equality to me is about the illegal aliens (oh... my bad... undocumented persons) paying the same taxes I do for the benefits they get for free... and don't tell me that Americans won't work for those jobs. I grew up in Arizona and was denied for so many jobs because they could pay the Mexicans (oh... my bad... undocumented persons) half of what they had to pay me. They could pay them under the table and if they need medical care, they just go to the hospital and get it... I have to pay taxes... so let's talk about equality...
The reason so many people want to come into this country illegally is because of the opportunities that exist here... you want a better life... go do a little more work... save your money... pay off your credit cards and spent the money instead of paying interest...
It's not a Wall Street Problem... it's an American Greed problem... we want our gratification now and not willing to earn it... do a Smith-Barney the old fashioned way... EARN IT!
No reason to be a dick, Orator. We are against corps.buying politicians not paying debts and working hard. Your party seems cold and out of touch. That is all he is saying. LEARN IT!!
Left or Right, how can u just ignore the Federal Reserve sending 16 Trillion offshore to foreign banks without congressional authority, just because the person pointing it out might not be from your own political party?
Well hopefully you cannot. Eventually the Left and Right will come together about this issue so we can get on with it united, the 99% exposing and Defining the crimes committed by the 1%
Left, Right, and Middle all brought together IS the 99%
So just expose the 1% crimes. Everyone who's not ~on the take~ will agree with that. Everything else will pale in its comparison, Including all the Left-Right Divide and Conquer Tactics.
16 TRILLION sent offshore to foreign banks without congressional authority. Who's talking about THAT? Not FOX. Not CNN. Not Obama. Not Herman Cain.
ITS US ...WE are talking about it... And until they talk about it too no one is leaving the squares. Audit The Federal Reserve. Stop Fractional Reserve Banking. END the Federal Reserve. No More Printing Money that isn't backed by anything but THEIR promise to make US pay for it.
Word.
Right side. I thank you for your opinion how ever I would I ask you to watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=uNbmNmoDxyo
Why is a movement of the people getting into a political debate pitting Republicans against Democrats? It does not matter who is in the White House or the Congress as long as we are in the most important factor in the minds of our decision makers. We need each other no matter what our individual politics has been. If we start to take sides, we will trivialize our message. Bernadette
The problem is people bring their ideology here. Get rid of it. We do not care about your ideology right or left or your special agendas (trolls trying to promote little known political figures). We are here to do one thing, fix this problem. Ideology is for politicians not people trying to take their country back.
Everyone should be trying to lean neutral. We are here to fix the country to do this everyone needs to lean neutral. This is not the United States of Me. So everyone needs to stop being selfish and accept the fact that you are only going to take away some of what you want not everything.
OMG. We all bring our Ideology here, so do you. Get off your high horse.
I was trying to make an analogy of how I see the debate. And which side I fall on the debate. Lean neutral? 30 years ago I would have been considered a center leaning liberal. The right wing politicians and media have pushed the discussion so far right that I am now considered an extremist. I'll be neutral when businesses AND people can co-exist.
I dont bring my ideology.
Uh, excuse me but your hypocrisy is showing.
"Everyone should be trying to lean neutral." is an ideology. You don't like me suggesting that Democrats are better than Republicans, fine. I understand. If I had used Conservative and Liberal instead would you have had an issue with that?
But to attack my point of view as ideology and that you don't want it here while espousing your own ideology is... Well, hypocritical.
YOU are not the only voice here. And I was not trying to get anyone to vote for a candidate. But until we have more political choices we are stuck with what we have. I hate the Democrats as much (sometimes more) than Republicans.
And I think we can both agree that the problem isn't the politicians so much as it is the financial and corporate powers. That is why OWS is protesting on Wall Street and not the White House.
The crux is how Wall Street has bought politicians thereby allowing them to further their own interests to the detriment of the economy as a whole, and so disproportionately the poor and middle class. And we are protesting the White House and all the rest of the politicians on the take.
""Everyone should be trying to lean neutral." is an ideology" - Youre assuming things that are not there.Lean neutral means that you should give up your ideology and try to be more open to all ideas and suggestions. I am sorry i didnt give you a long technical explanation.
"If I had used Conservative and Liberal instead would you have had an issue with that?" - Yes those are also ideology and you did use them. Dem and Rep is also an ideology in that you follow that parties ideology. Following political ideologies gets us nowhere.
"YOU are not the only voice here. And I was not trying to get anyone to vote for a candidate" - In your OP you basically make cons out to be uncaring bad people and that libs are caring helpful people.. THAT is the kind of crap we do not need here. THAT is why our country is in this mess. I am not the only voice here and i can guarantee most of the people that are regulars here will agree exactly with the position i took on it. Your post served no purpose but to divide us. It was not helpful in any way and displayed only bigotry and i say this as someone who is traditionally liberal. It was completely uncalled for and that crap does not belong here.
We are here to fix our country not help divide it.
"But until we have more political choices we are stuck with what we have." - This is a general problem people are having with living inside the box. You dont have to CHOOSE. Politicians are suppose to work for the people. We can make them, regardless of party, work for the people if we try. We have tried picking the best candidate for the job for the last 30 years and this is where we are at. WE need to regain control of the govt. Political parties should not even exist.
"nd I think we can both agree that the problem isn't the politicians so much as it is the financial and corporate powers." - It is both. The politicians failed to do their job and have been taking bribes from corps. This is treason. Had they of worked for the people none of this would be happening. Corps too are responsible because they allowed their greed to trump all else including human rights and the environment.
You bash me for bringing my ideology to the forum.
You try to convince us that we should use your ideology while claiming it is not ideology.
Do you look in the mirror much?
I'm on the right side of the street heading to work and helping the economy grow. I tried walking on the left sidewalk but there were too many slackers laying around leeching off my hard work,
I disagree with this situation. How about this, and the conservatives can chime in and agree or disagree. Mind you, I am talking about conversations, not Republican politicians.
You pull up to a red light and you have a person standing on the corner holding a sign, "Homeless and hunger. Anything will help. thank you and God bless."
The conservative looks over and thinks, If I give him a dollar, he will eat today, yet he will be back out here tomorrow. And in fact, I have reinforced this negative behavior of begging on the corner, so it is even more likely that he will be back tomorrow.
However, knowing that there are people in need, I will give my dollar to the local charity, the local church that helps the homeless or the local food shelter, and they can properly feed him. Or, I can volunteer my time and efforts and help make the food and help serve the homeless.
I, in fact refuse, to give them money, yet I will give them trail mix instead.
What does a liberal do in this situation?
more accurate is: the liberals go into the neighbors house, take his money spend it on the stuff to "help" the person (40% of all govt spending is transfer payments from rich to those less well off) conservatives probably would not let the person sue the sidewalk owner (libertarian conservatives where you got to take personal responsibility and sometimes in life "sh*t happens) and would reach into their own pocket to help the person, rather than be forced to by some one who "knows whats best for the block"
Liberals would stand by waiting for government bureaucrats to decide what to do.
We must stop this left vs. right thing or we will get nothing accomplished.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-cannot-become-the-lefts-version-of-the-tea-part/
I've thought about that too. But I've come to the conclusion that if we play the game to compromise, we'll simply get pulled further away from our principles.
That's why the country doesn't really have any liberals anymore. They've been replaced by moderate conservatives.
I've said it before. 30 years ago I was a moderate liberal. The corporate media and politicians, both sides, have pushed for or allowed the conversation to move so far right that I am now considered far left on the political spectrum.
My positions have not changed.
Agreed
Agreed.
Many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link above, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link, so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for by e-mail from the group in the 2nd link, and then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the strategy of the 1st link as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your Occupation & Generation.
Person on right side falls down, gets up, brushes himself off & continues on his way.
Person on left side falls down & seeks a lawyer to see who to sue, since it clearly could not have been his own fault.
One could argue that the right side would assist the fallen person because they believe in taking the initiative to step up and be responsible, and that the left side would say it's not my job, let the city/police/paramedics do it.
OR
One could argue that on both sides of the street human nature is to assist someone hurt and that to suggest otherwise is playing a divide and conquer game.
I would feel confidant that the people on both of the streets would help me as I believe that most people are decent.
Liked this.
What BS. You have been brainwashed by the liberal media to hate conservatives.
It is not about falling down and hurting yourself, it is about laying down and waiting for others to carry you.
The "liberal media" is actually run by conservatives.
The myth of the "liberal media" is just a lie used by the Conservative Media in order to brainwash their audience into thinking Conservatism is being backed into a corner. It's quite the opposite, in fact.
and the point was, they were taught to hate conservatives...
Conservatives are taught to hate Liberals. It goes tit for tat.
Really, tit for tat?
I hear the same thing from Democrats that say the same thing. Well, the Republicans did it while they were in office.
So, you are saying, two wrongs makes a right? Really? REALLY? Wrong is wrong.
Feel free to call out conservatives that are spewing hate speech about liberals, I DO, but to participate because of tit for tat?
I call out Democrats too. I'm not sure why you assume I don't. I'm also not sure why you assume when I said "tit for tat" I was endorsing such practices. I don't like MSNBC. It's almost as biased as Fox. Almost.
They are ALL bias to a degree. It is hard to find information that is not... that is why we must think for ourselves.
Because you jumped on me for pointing it out rather than jumping on AMCD for saying it. And you even went as far as to say, well, tit for tat!
Here's the thing: I understand the original post is vitriolic, but politically he's correct.
So I condemn the attempt at divisiveness, but I condone his application of the truth.
I only said "tit for tat" because you played it off as if liberals were the only one's throwing knuckle balls.
Both sides do it, and both sides do it for their own political gain.
That is what I thought OWS was fighting, originally. Then I ran across enough of these types of posts and it seems like a bunch of pro-liberals trying to push the Democrat party lines...
I disagree. The way you feel when you listen to Rush or Beck is the way I feel when I watch the "mainstream" media.
You are liberal so you fail to see bias in the "liberal media". You would have to agree that Rush and Beck are bias. So is the mainstream media.
If you follow the chain of "Who owns what?" you'll see that the media conglomerates are pretty much owned by a core group of Conservative moguls. Rupert Murdoch is a good example, who owns the vast majority of newspaper circulation in Australia (as an example) at around 70%.
There they go again! Leave to somebody from Austin Texas who has been Brainwashed by the Right into voting for Rick "Dopey" Perry to say that it's the left that's Brainwashed! Incredible! BrainC is so Brainwashed by the right, that he doesn't even know that he's Brainwashed!
Hello! The News may have not reached Austin, but there is no liberal media in America, and there never was! That is a myth perpetrated by Carl Rove & The Koch Boys!
The fact of the matter is that the only people trying to get Americans to hate Americans is FOX News which is owned & operated by an Australian Billionaire and a Saudi Arabian Prince who have no love for America and are by no stretch of the imagination considered the Liberal Media!
The question is what side of the street are you on? The left or the right! If you are too ashamed of The right to admit that you're a part of it, just say so! Don't try to shift the blame to Liberals by calling sombody Brainwashed like Herman Cain does! What is it, Monkey see, Monkey do???
Who's really brainwashed Mr. B???
Have you never watched Bill Maher? The only ones spewing hate is Fox?
At least I see and admit to the bias nature of Rush and Beck.
The reason I call them brainwashed, is because they are wrong about the conservative mind set. To kick and belittle someone when they tripped? Come one...
REALLY? The left is all peace and love? Did you actually read the paragraph at the top? Conservatives would belittle and KICK someone when they tripped and fell? And you then tell me the only side spewing hate is the right? REALLY?
Again, you are liberal, so you fail to see the bias...
The Forum topic is a metaphor. We don't think you guys want to kick us literally. Get a grip.
I realize that most do not think that, yet there are some such as Eugenius that truly believes that conservatives and Republicans are honestly out to do people harm.
Alot of your guys seem to really like social Darwinism.
The truth hurts don't it!
I did read the Paragraph at the top, and what you apparently fail to understand, is that I found it to be true! I've seen Teagaggers kick somebody when they were down. I have seen Teabaggers at a political debate threatening people with their guns! I have seen conservatives call for "Second Amendment Solutions!"
I have never seen a Liberal let even a Republicans house burn down like the Conservatives in Tenneesee did. A Liberal wouldn't ridicule a Handicapped man at a demonstration like the Teabaggers did on Nationwide TV. We wouldn't spit on a Congressman, not even a Tea Party Congressman who called Our President a Liar in front of the World in a time of War! Or, didn't that get on Fox News!
How about the Rights hatered of Gay American's, and Immigrants, and Liberal Americans, and Union men, and Police and Firemen, and Teachers! And, not for nothing, the one so called "Compassionate" Conservative in America Believes in Water Torture, For Christ Sakes!
How about the Rights rancor toward Public Education, and Women's rights, and Voting rights! No my friend, the Right spews hatred everyday, at everybody, and trying to label Liberals who will help someone down on his luck as hateful, is pure hypocrsy! And, you know it!
Again, you are so Brainwashed by the right, that you don't just eat the garbage that Fox News is selling, you try to repackage it as something good and wholesome enough for everybody else to eat. Hello!!! It's all Garbage!
I might fail to see the bias because I'm an admitted Liberal, but you REFUSE to see the bias because you're a Hypocritical Teabagger Mr. B! There is a difference, a Stark difference!
Oh BS. I do not try to paint Republicans as saints. Yet you try to tell me that ALL LIBERALS ARE GOOD? "I have never seen a Liberal let even a Republicans house burn down"
This is why I say you are brainwashed. You fail to see ANY negative on your side, only the negative on the other side. I admit Rush and Beck are bias, deeply bias. Yet you cannot admit anything is wrong on your side. I admit that both Republicans and Democrats are both after political power, yet you see it as ONLY liberals want good. And you even go as far as to say that conservatives WANT hate.
There you go again putting words in my mouth that tell the world more about you, than about me. I didn't say that all conservative WANT Hate, I said that the "Right SPEWS hatred everyday, at everyone!" And, you can't deny that!
Conservative policies in Tenneessee absolutely allowed a man's house to burn down while the Local Volounteer Fire dept. stood by and let it burn. Maybe you didn't see that, but that is the awful truth you have to face! The parties are emphatically not the same!
Conservatives Lie, (Which is bad!) then they lie to themselves, (Which is worse) then they believe their own lie! (Which is what started the war in Iraq!) When you believe your own lie, that means you're Brainwashed!!! OK!
For instance, you admit that Rush and Beck are "Deeply Biased" yet you have no problem repeating their talking points every chance you get. I admit that I love Bill Maher and Rachel Maddow, and ED Schultz, and Keith Olbermann but I would never repeat their talking points. Truth be told, they actually repeat my talking points on the Air!
I watch them not because they hate conservatives (Althought there is much to hate!) but because they counter conservative lies with the TRUTH! I can't help it if the truth hurts you so much that you feel that Liberals hate you! That's how you feel, not how I feel!
The truth is that liberals don't hate Conservatives. We don't care enough about you to hate you. But you can't get away from the fact that Conservatives hate Liberals. Just using the word "liberal" in a pajoritive sense the way you do reveals the basic hatred you have for us. I think that what really bothers you is that and Liberals have finally started to defend themselves by calling a Spade a Spade, and you can't stand that!
But, you shouldn't whine about people hating you because the Shoe is on the other foot! Turn about is fair play, no? Take it like a man son. The Truth hurts, but it will also set you Free!
why would your daughter and grandson be on food stamps if you live in a million dollar home in Manhattan? Now I truly understand why you vote Democratic, they are the ones giving you money.
BTW, your rant below sounds exactly live oceanweeds... did it come from the same play book?
in addition, I don't think the two parties are the same. They are different ideologies. I keep saying they are both corrupt. Different, but corrupt.
Hello! They're on Food Stamps because she's on maternity leave from her job! Every young woman who's not working because she has to take care of a child qualifys for Food Stamps. Maybe that's not true in the great State of Texas, but it is here in New York Where Occupy Wall Street is, and Democrats rule.
It must be awful nice to sit in your Air Conditioned Ranch in Austin in sight of the State Capitol and complain about everybody else's business when you don't know squat about anybody's business.
BTW. How's the weather down there??? How's that Perry prayer for rain working out??? Was that a Dust Storm I saw??? I wonder how long will it be before you Texans put out your hands and cry for help from the Federal Government? You better pray that there is a "Peace and Love" Democrat handing out the cash when you need it, or you will be SOL!
I live in a Million dollar home because I rebuilt an abandoned building with my own hands that I brought for $5,000. Remember the "Good Old Days" of the Ford Administration when the City was told the go to hell, houses were abandoned, and homeless people lived on the Streets? When people were running from the City, I was buying. That's why I live in a Million Dollar home now. It's called superior planning and forethought.
I have never lived extravagently, and me and my family can now enjoy the fruits of my labor. No one has ever "Given me anything! I get Social Security because I earned it fighting for my country. I don't get much, but I don't need much.
As far as oceanweeds and I sounding alike, I would say that "Great minds think alike!" On the other hand, you and Glen Beck sound like you're reading from the same script, did you get the Murdock playbook?
If you think both parties are corrupt, you think both parties are the same! And, for the last time answer the question, What side of the Street do you live on???
BTW, thank you for your concern over my state and the extremely dry season we are having. Again, you clear show your compassion with your insincerity.
hypocrite
I posted which side I live one. Did you not read it? Feel free to go back and read it.
You know what gramps, I apologize. I guess I would be pissed off and trying to blame someone as you are if I could not support my wife and she had to be on Medicaid, and if I was old and dependent on social security, and my grandson was dependent on school lunches and school milk money as you have said you are.
I did not realize that you were in the position you are in. I actually have empathy for you.
Oh please! I live in a million dollar home in Manhattan! My wife and I are comfortably retired, and I have never had a problem supporting her or my kids. My Wife, and I are on Medicaid because we're both over 65! not because we're poor! (Ask your father about that, if you have one.) All my children have jobs, but one, the one with a baby, still qualifies for Food stamps, because she was out on maternity leave!
My first Grandson is in Catholic School because his father has a legacy there. I would love to have my other 3 Grands go to good public schools but because of Republican policies that destroy public Education that's not possible!
I am not pissed at Republicans because I can't support my family. I Fight Republicans because everytime a Republican gets elected, I lose MY job, and my neighbors lose their American Dreams. And, I fight against Conservatives because there is a Difference between the Parties. A stark difference.
One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference!
One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference.
One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference.
One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference.
One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality.
In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy.
So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly OWS's side, the other party thinks they’re and Anti-American mob. If you can't see the truth in that, something is wrong with you!
I don't need your condescending offer of Empthy. You obviously don't have any idea what that means. Which brings us back to the original question. What side of the street do you want to live on???
http://www.occupyr.com/News/thread.php?id=151
and there you go again, talking of love and peace as if the Democrats shit don't stink...
After all the negative things you have said about conservatives, I find it funny that you can even write the sentence that you do not hate conservatives.
You, son, are the one that speaks in negatives, You are the one that points the finger... You have yet to point that finger at yourself. It is all fine to keep saying someone else is to blame... Oh those dang conservatives spew hate every day... but you still fail to acknowledge liberals doing it.
That is okay, keep believing that the tDemocrats have your best interest at heart. They are as much to blame for the situation our nation is in as the Republicans.
See, you are so far gone that you don't even see your own hate. Yes, I can listen to Rush and Beck and I know they are bias. I listen to the parts I agree with and I disregard the parts I understand to be inflammatory, or are just trying to stir up the political base. So, no, I am not blind or brainwashed. However, you on the other hand, cannot see that from your side. And what about Clinton saying, "a couple of years ago (Obama) would be working for us." That is racist.
So as I keep saying, and you cannot see, both sides are corrupt. Both sides of the political isle are power hungry and only concerned with their own parties power, not the citizens.
And I feel sorry for you if you cannot see how the policies of the Democrats helped bring about the housing crisis. The "predator lending tactics" that they so desperately wanted to curb, is to blame. By lowering the interest rate on high risk lenders, they helped bring about this crisis. High risk should not be given loans. But you are going to say how the Republicans are to blame. Yes, they share in the blame. As I keep saying, both are to blame.
You sound like the little kid that keeps blaming others. He cannot see how what he did was wrong, just the other person. How everything is 100% the other persons fault.
Yep, keep blaming others and do not bother to take personal responsibility.
And, there you go again pointing the finger of blame at everybody else except yourself, and acting like I'm the one doing it.Which is a tactic straight out of The Murdock propaganda Playbook. Your master will be proud of you, you have performed well.
The fact is that I have yet to say anything negative about your Party that isn't true! (Doesn't the truth count anymore?) and all you can do is complain like a whiney Republican that everybody hates you! Are you serious! Do you read what you write? People hate Republican because you're doing bad things! Hello! The next thing your gonna try to tell me is that Rick Perry didn't live on a Ranch called "Nigger Head!" Please!
The list of negatives that are coming from Conservatives is endless, I have just listed a few off of the top of my head, and you have no answer for any of them! I am sorry to have to call youse out for the evil that you do, but it's the honest to God Truth, and you know it!
The Republicans are responsible for this Economy, you cannot deny that, and everybody is mad at youse because of it! Like I said, I don't hate Republicans, but I wouldn't pee in your mouth if your theeth were on Fire! That's for damn sure! That aint hatred, that is indifference, son!
The Democrats might not have my best interests at heart (Your assertion) but they are not going out of their way to destroy my Social Security, or my Wife's Medicaid. They might not have my best interests at heart, but they aren't trying to cut the Milk Money for my Daughters child! (If that isn't worthy of hatered, what is?) Or to destroy my Grandsons Public Education! (And don't even try to say that they are trying to save them!) Democrats might not have my best interests at heart but they don't hate my Gay Cousin who was a Sargent in the Army! You on the other hand do.
Keep believing that the Republicans are blameless, and that both parties are the same (Another piece of propaganda straight out of the Murdock Playbook) and don't be surprised if you find yourself on a breadline with all the other Liberals you obviously hate so much. Get with it kid, and stop whining, the Truth will set you free!
If you want a bill of particulars on the difference between the Conservatives, and the Liberals answer this post with another whine about how Republicans are misunderstood. I dare you!
Here is a man on the LEFT, stating that he "wouldn't pee in (my) mouth if (my) theeth were on Fire! That's for damn sure!"
Why? Because I THINK differently than he does, Because I keep saying BOTH sides are corrupt, that BOTH sides have problems.
Wow, to tell another HUMAN BEING that. Not a talking head on TV, and again, WHY? Because I THINK differently that he does.
This sounds NOTHING like "Liberals rush to the aid of the injured person. They call for aid and provide comfort."
And to top it off, he cannot even see how this is HATRED.
Like I said, it's indifference not hatred. There is a difference. I have no time for hatred. I'm a Peace and Love Democrat!
In case you didn't notice, I pointed out something I Would Not Do under anycircumstances and you made a mighty leap of judgement all the way to hatred from that. Are you talking about me, or yourself??? Kind of thinnned skinned there aren't you? You teabaggers are all alike, you can dish it out, but you can't take it! What are you going to do get a gun and show me how peaceful you are? Please this mock anger thing is over the top.
Not for nothing, and I know it's nuanced, but the fact is that if I really did hate you, I WOULD piss in your mouth if your theeth were on fire!
So, I guess the answer to the question here is that you live on the Right Sde of the street because it's the Right Side, and you're angry because you would rush to aid an injured person? Is that Right?
Wow, you are a bitter old man, and I am sorry for you. I can handle your hate, even if you keep denying it.
I know you are trying to bring me to your level of hatred and anger. You keep trying to tell me how angry and full of hate I am. I don't see it. I don't feel angry and I don't feel the hate. Not towards liberals and not towards Democrats. Yet you CLEARLY have hatred and anger. You have said it several times. That is okay.
BTW, Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
I think you're blatantly obfuscating the truth.
I think the majority of people walk in the middle of the street - trying to figure out why neither the Republicans/Conservatives or Democrats/Liberals are doing everything except fixing the cracks on the sidewalks.
More like the conservative person trips, gets up and brushes himself off, laughs at himself and says he will be more careful next time.
The liberal person would go to the government, file a lawsuit, and blame someone else for him tripping.