Forum Post: Accepting poverty
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 10:20 p.m. EST by Atoll
(185)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
From most of the detractors on this site. I've noticed that a great many of them don't take poverty very seriously. They think it's something you can just climb out of with a little elbow grease and determination. Is this seriously all? I've spent all of my elbow grease in the past year making less than $20k at a thankless job and still have nothing to show for it.
I have a diabetic wife and three kids and I make TOO MUCH for Medicaid. At least where my wife and I are concerned. That means, for those of you not following, my wife could die because I cannot afford adequate health care. And then BING! I have ludicrous child care payments to think about.
I'm educated, intelligent, resourceful, and living in an economy that will not recognize it due to hackneyed social norms within the hiring process. I can "sell myself" for sure. That's why I'm picking up work for just over that $20k. Based on my dependents, I'm still below the poverty level.
So what is the great and all powerful capitalism doing for me?
Today's economy is not capitalism. What you have now is the result of generations of Americans largely ignoring politics. The politicians(both parties) passed laws that made it legal for bankster, corporate, and non-profit orginizations to purchase our elected servants. Therefore the voice of the people has been lost. The buyers then write laws, give them to the bought, who then enact those laws. Many of which has stifled competition, and given themselves an unfair advantage..eliminating capitalism. Things would be much different if this were not true. There would be much much more opportunity for all.
http://sanityscribe.wordpress.com/
Which is, of course, the most pure expression of the capitalist ethic.
Like the purest distillation of cyanide.
A big problem is the disparity between capitalism and free enterprise. Many would say that they are interchangeable. I disagree. Free enterprise promotes competition. Capitalism as a business philosophy is generally about crushing all who oppose. And yes, Americans are horribly educated when it comes to poly-sci. What other way could we have gotten the "Obamacare is socialism" rhetoric? I read an article relating that the head of the US socialist party was furious with Obama's health care bill.
But how do we educate the people that are already so engulfed in what they've been spoon-fed all these years?
It has been a long and winding road. But this movememnt is proof there is an awakening happening. There is a continuing education evovling here. It is finding it's focus, if it gets siderailed or co-opted, there will be another. But I think too many are aware of the attempts to do so, and most are not falling for it(from what I've seen).
From what I could find on S.Carolins's medicaid website, a couple can not make more than $1471.00 per/month (or $17,652.00 yearly) to qualify for the buy-in medicaid. I wasn't doubting you as I too find myself in the same situation in Maine, I simply wanted those less-informed to know (and understand) that in fact, $20k is considered "too much" in order to qualify for even the buy-in medicaid. Best to you.
Yeah. It's funny to think that just because you have a full time job, people think you should be able to afford health care just like that.
America USED to take poverty very seriously. In the "Preamble to the Constitution", "establishing Justice" is the very first goal mentioned!
But over time, "America's soul has become poisoned" (M L King). Poisoned by what? By selfishness and greed.
YOU, "Atoll", are what the OWS Movement is all about.
You deserve a better life and I hope with all my heart that you and your family will have one in the "New America". Best of luck!!!
I like the line "promote the common welfare". Kind of takes the wind out of all the "entitlement" BS. Our founders didn't want the populace to suffer. FDR took it back, Many have contributed to taking it away.
It is for people like you that we are out here. We will do everything in out power for you, but we need you to do everything in your power for us. Hang in there, and give our best to your wife and kids.
Doing what little I can. Thanks.
I for one feel your pain. Thank you so much for sharing. I wish you and yours only the best. I am also in agreement with you that the problem is not as simple as some people want to believe. It is going to be very hard for a great many people, even educated people like ourselves, to let go of a dying and unsustainable system. Cheers, keep posting!
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/94223
Atoll you should post this on
http://www.themultitude.org/forum/index.php
Sorry, post what specifically? The main post that started this thread?
Yeah.
I'll also link ur post here
http://occupywallst.org/forum/lessons-from-my-father/
I MAY revise it in total to include some of the things said in the thread. Some people have had some pretty interesting things to say and it's helped me see where I could have given a little more info (and enlightened me to a few different points). I like giving a clear picture when I can. That being said, thanks to all those on here who've actually been discussing this with me!
Exactly, therefore we need is a comprehensive strategy, and related candidate, that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Buddy Roemer. I like what he has to say.
Gotta link?
http://www.buddyroemer.com/
I agree capitalism is designed to create inequality.
But as far as your living situation, becoming self sustainable will free you somewhat from the system and cut down on many bills over the long term.
Also a purely organic raw plant based diet will eliminate the need for many medications. (check with doctor first of course)
Best of luck to you and your family
All I have to say to that is...
I don't give a shit about your life story and how you worked hard to overcome obstacles. What does that have to do with Wallstreet or the banking industry? Congratulations your a hardworking American that doesn't want to support all those lazy hippies on welfare. Does that mean you want your want your hard earned going to bank because they used your money to make risky loans in a giant pyramid scheme.
You obviously haven't been reading everything in this thread.
no just copy and pasted from another because I was lazy
A #BasicIncome guarantee of around $1200/mo could make all the difference to stabilizing families like Atoll's. We know from proven research http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100 that nobody will stop working for such a paltry sum, but it would #EndPoverty as we know it in the short term, while we work out the complexities of a Constitutional Amendment to #GetMoneyOut over the longer term.
I respectfully submit that we need both. #BasicIncome right now and #GetMoneyOut over next 4 years.
Even conservative think tanks support #BasicIncome http://j.mp/GOP4BasicIncome suggesting $10,000/yr back in 2006.
Please follow and RT @BasicIncome to learn about the details about http://j.mp/BasicIncome and build awareness of a policy solution that was called for by MLK http://j.mp/MLKOfficialDemands some 45 years ago and has increasingly gained momentum and Case Study DATA over nearly half a century.
One of the leading proofs that the Basic Income Guarantee works: Sarah Palin's Alaska Permanent Dividend Fund https://www.pfd.state.ak.us/ Every Alaskan citizen has been collecting a check, every year. It's 10% of what is needed, but the principle is well established and already in practice. We just need to ramp it up to scale, as Canada had planned to do in the 1970s.
"On résiste à l'invasion des armées; on ne résiste pas à l'invasion des idées." Translation: "There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come."
Don't believe me. Don't believe TV. Do the research for yourself and then help us educate others. Onward!
http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/09/27/329927/basic-income-as-a-helicopter-drop/
BasicIncome #RentaBasica #Grundeinkommen #RevenudeBase #EndPoverty
What's on your resume? I made minimum wage for a long time, because I only have a high school diploma. It's tough, I agree. I had to bust ass, educate myself after shift hours, and dig in at work to get recognized for merit, to get promotions, and to ultimately get a better living. I also had to leave some places - there are genuinely bad work environments where no matter how good you are doing, you will never be recognized because either a) it's by nature a menial job with no opportunity for improvement, or b) the people there are bad at growing their internal workforce and seeing the value in creating stronger employees (which is purely an oversight - it's been demonstrated in studies that improving your employees fosters loyalty, better work ethic, and more valuable work force, as well as typically better products and happier customers - you may lose some because they move on to a higher paying job, but the time they're there is a hundred times more valuable and value generating, whereas turnover from dissatisfaction and poor working conditions costs an employer in the end). It's tough and scary to leave a bad work environment - they're like abusive relationships. You have to cut the cord, and have the self confidence and belief in yourself that you deserve better than that. There are better places out there. My company, for instance, is doing massive hirings right now. They're even working with the local state program to do a big training for non-skilled workers to bring them up to par, then vet in the hardest working ones (it's a rigorous program, but I asked some of the people who had done it for other companies, and unanimously they said it was totally, completely worth it, and the hardest workout with the best payoff they'd ever experienced). You may be in a bad place - there are better out there, I can personally attest. You do have to be willing to take a leap, and to work your ass off.
I can't seem to find anyone who will hire me for anything substantial. And for it, my resume suffers. Most of the places I can find are dead end jobs. I've lucked up and found some decent jobs once or twice, but there was craziness involved (for example, one of those decent jobs was in 2008) that led to a layoff. I have more than one trick up my sleeve though. I have no intention of staying where I am economically. Generally speaking I'm smart enough to do a great many jobs that I wouldn't get consideration for around here due to a lack of experience. But like I said, I've got some ideas. This time next year, I may not be rolling in it, but I'll be doing much better than I am now. But the whole point of this post is to note poverty. There are people out there in worse shape than me and some of them didn't ask for it (I know I've screwed the pooch more than once). Additionally, they probably don't have the resources available to me (that I have only recently become aware of). In short, in the end I'm going to do fine. But there are plenty who can't.
I've been through two layoffs in the last six or seven years. They're definitely tough - they immediately inject the work force with X number of people all competing for the same industry type jobs. I was always able to get another job by referencing the acts of merit I accomplished at the last one, and luckily, when people see you were laid off, it's far better a reflection than if you were fired.
Hmm, yeah, lack of experience and lack of education or any demonstration of it on your resume make it nearly impossible to land a sweet job in the beginning. You're just in the same boat I was. You're going to have to push hard. I really want you to, even though you're just some stranger on a forum. I empathize with the frustration - you feel capable of so much more, and yet you're subjugated to what is probably a shit job doing mind-numbing labor, right?
Yeah, I know I sure as hell didn't ask to be born into a family that couldn't afford to send me to school. I definitely didn't ask to add other issues I won't list here to that. It sure as hell isn't what I'd call 'fair', in the strictest sense of the word. But fuck staying in that nightmare. I wasn't about to let that keep me down. One thing I was lucky on - my parents showed me genuine love, and they taught me how to learn, how to question, and how to keep going, even when the mud is better off than I am. For a few years I wallowed in self pity and misery, raged against the injustice. Then I stood up on my feet, and start doing something real. I started pursuing what I wanted. I wasn't willing to comprise my morals to achieve it, so it took longer for me than others - ten years to get where I am now, instead of doing four in college and then getting an in on a sweet desk job (I did try to go to college, but couldn't afford it without a full time job, and couldn't get funding without doing both full time, so I had to postpone it after the first [awesome, EE/CS major, loved it, every bitch ass minute, even when my boss would get mad at me upon racing back to the office] year... will be for the next decade, as long as this country doesn't bloody well collapse before then) - but I did it, and I learned to never blame someone else if I could find a way past a hurdle, because that wasted too much time. Yes, there are problems with our system, yes, there are injustices - everyone has a story, they say - but I do believe, based on what I've seen, that we will progress, evolve, and the path to it will be one of understanding, of empathy, of positive and critical problem solving, of personal responsibility and the willingness to fight to overcome the hurdles. I've found people like this here, and I wish I could know them all in person. Each one has made it worth my time getting yelled at by some of the folks who insist on calling any questioning, and discussion that is not immediate agreement, a 'trolling'. (on that, nice way to instill democracy smirk - subdue all opinions but your own, uh, yeah...)
We're not horribly dissimilar. But look closely at the past century. I guarantee you'll see that every time the taxes get lowered, severe economic problems follow.
And my only hope for this movement is that it leads somewhere positive. It's only in the nascent stages right now. Leadership will have to emerge. I only hope that history does not repeat itself when it does emerge.
So hey, you never answered - what kind of job is your ideal job? Maybe we can help... I mean, you have the eyes of thousands of people, and the collective experience and wisdom of probably at least a few in your dream job. Tell us what you want to do - let's start building you up right now. That's what community and actual movement is about!
I'm very nonjudgmental, despite occasionally sounding like a bull in a china shop strapped into a giant kazoo. If you say something like musician or professor of philosophy, I'm not going to scoff. :) Trust is a big step in real community. Trust me, just with this one small thing. Ignore any trolls. They're just bored, afraid, or outraged at what they perceive to be an infringement on their country.
(permalink again) I like all forms of writing and most genres. I've written a couple of horror stories but mostly I stick to sci-fi. I do have some social drama ideas and definitely a couple of comedies. The media involved runs from cartoons (more "adult swim" sort of fare though), movies, novels to comics. The novels are the tough ones. Comics are tougher (as in they are much longer and painstaking to produce sometimes). Movies and tv aren't as tough, as I tend to view things cinematically and understand the formats (having written in them before). I do write on a website called Helium sometimes, though I'm mostly writing about politics or religion on there. Any sites you could recommend would be a welcome thing. I LOVE me some feedback. In some ways, I don't feel I could get much better without it.
I'll PM you more info. :) We should chat more about it! Maybe I can help you with your dream, from the same walking I've done for mine.
I'm working on some stories now. I'd like to be a writer with the eventual goal of becoming a publisher/producer (tv and film). It's just finding the time to actually write between being a father and husband. I've got about a dozen or so outlines, and I'm moving forward on a couple.
One hugely helpful thing to do as a writer trying to break into it professionally is to join writer's groups. If you don't have any near you in SC, I'd be glad to help. I operate a small group of websites for writers, would love to get you setup with something (if you're willing to put the work into being an organizer yourself :D I can't drop by SC every week, hehe).
Ah, no kidding? I love writers, being an aspiring one myself :) What do you write? If you're looking to be a publisher/producer, I assume your focus is more on script writing - is that true, or are you interested in multiple formats? Any genre you prefer? Right now, with the advent of e-readers and multiple online platforms for distribution, it's becoming more and more possible to break into the industry without 'knowing someone'. I'm actually very excited about that; I think the Internet and new technology is going to open wide doors in the near future to artists, writers, and creative-types of all kinds. :)
A central part of the message of this movement has been that it will have no leader. I've seen this repeated over and over every time it is asked. It is a founding principle at least on the part of the core organizers (those ethereal creatures I can only surmise by looking for frequent faces on the LiveStreams, or by catching on Facebook - I think they fear scrutiny of their own circumstances that will reflect poorly on the whole).
Even if there is to be no leadership, I just feel there's a unique solution to the existing organizational problems somewhere that people are missing. Something unprecedented...
I like that you have ideas! I really want to talk about this more - will you start a thread? I'm sure it will collect trolls, but we can open up the conversation. One thing I think we need to do before we jump to specifics, though, is to make sure we know what values we want to found these actions on. Let's start with our root values, and then we can move sequentially "upward" into specific systems, and even specific details.
For example, one I would really want would be to have every individual life considered equal. I think this is pretty axiomatic to a "true democracy" (it's also part of our existing Constitution), but I think that's a really important one to call out specifically. It's easy to lose sight of it when you start getting into the fine details later up the chain.
Ah, cool (replying to your most recent post, not this one, hehe - I think the admins must have recently instituted the 'thread max nested count' option of the occupywallst software platform [it's on github to peruse]).
Can you repost here? Let's make our own ideas. OK, so one thing I've found looking at this movement is that truthfully, there already is a backbone of organization. Watching the videos, looking through photos, reading the very first posts before Sept. 17th, and the original call to arms on AdBuster, I can see this was well orchestrated up front. It was thoroughly thought through - the 'agenda' is pretty ingenius... just vague enough for every person to adapt to their own desires, and just specific enough to get forward momentum. Now, that said, I think it's time that everyone here take the reins, so at this point, if anyone wants to truly be involved, they should be thinking of how to better organize this, whether that be with a leadership of sorts (I personally do think avoiding a figurehead or even a small council is a good idea - too open to corruption and bias), or through a completely abstracted process of 'leading' via constant change and reassessment, cycling through every position on a short term basis. The risk of constant change is you become less efficient though - the advantage of having a single leader or group of leaders is that they can, once they've chosen the direction, create efficiencies in achieving a specific goal. A giant committee/true democracy will be much less efficient in turning corners, organizationally speaking, and any single vision for direction will become muddied immediately by those seeking to go in another. There are problems with both. So... I think the first step is to say, "What are our ideals? What are our absolute measures that we must abide by?" For instance, we can say fairly certainly that we will not tolerate a single perspective leading the whole, because even with the wisest of leaders, this opens us up to bias and corruption. We can say any solution must work within the given understood nature of human beings, on average, since that is the mental medium we're working with, right? We can also say we will not tolerate certain things in the solution, such as no subversion of any individual's free will, no use of fear to control, no selective reporting of facts to mold the mass perspective to a single direction, no loss of values and integrity, even temporarily, to achieve an end. If we identify these virtues that we must work our solution around, or upon as a foundation, then we can identify viable solutions upon that foundation that will meet more distinct goals, like vital resources available to all equally (for instance), or increasing and equally distributing knowledge as a high priority, survival of the species as a high priority, etc.
So first, what are the guidelines within which our solution must fit? What must the solution constrain to?
A hard charter (or some other such document) would be a great solution. Isn't our whole way of life today founded on a document (or two)? There have been some attempts at it here and there, but there's been little focus. It needs to have a general language, but one that states the purpose and goals. It needs to then continue with articles of it's own that state a more specific goal. I suppose it's pretty obvious where I'm getting the idea here from.
Basically, what I'm saying is that there needs to be something to gel the focus here. A lot of people are going off page, allowing themselves to be co-opted out, fringe nuts are pervading the scene, etc. Disillusionment is setting in. So, that being said, there should be a document declaring the goal. It should be handed out to everyone, emailed to everyone with an email address, sent as a press release and posted on any site possible.
My ideas are this: For individuals making more than $20 million a year, a tax of no less than 60% be imposed. $8 mil is more than enough for anyone. And if you have a salary of greater than $20 million you are most likely not a small business owner. In other words, you most likely now have a business that can support itself. You are not "entitled" to huge sums of money "just because". If you cannot accept your own success or enjoy the benefits of your labor at this financial level, you will never be able to. The lobby is severely restricted. Financial reports based on the budgets of the lobby (if not activities) are to be subject to full disclosure at the behest of the will of the people. If Business wants to play at politics, it must submit to the people's will. "Of the people, for the people, by the people." Should the full disclosure of the lobby be undesirable, full disclosure of the budgets and campaign reports of elected officials should be made available every SIX MONTHS. Tax breaks for corporations themselves should depend on two factors and two factors alone: The number of people they employ (encouraging job creation) and the level of business that is domestically conducted (discouraging overseas manufacturing). I'm sure I've got more, but can't think of it right now.
Propose your ideas. :) Be what you're looking for. How can this be done?
I just had the same "permalink" problem. Not sure what's up with that. Beyond that, I don't know what else. Someone else had the same idea on another forum though. They had a pretty good "what else".
Atoll, couldn't reply to your comment (only see permalink), maybe broken? But interested in your idea - decentralizing and creating local community infrastructure I think is a great idea. What else?
lol I said unprecedented for a reason. I'm pretty creative, but I got nothing. At least right now.
The only thing I could add to this point is akin to what I think our national democratic system should be like. It would work thusly: Communities are broken down to such a small level, a consensus becomes easy (or at least easier). People on their home street meet once a week and discuss necessary issues (simultaneously increasing community bonds). A representative (not necessarily always the same one) is sent to the neighborhood committee (made up of the other street delegates). And it goes on and on until it reaches a national level. At any level (street - neighborhood - county/city - state - regional - federal), the issue can be returned to a lower level for further deliberation. It might seem too nuanced to be practical, especially for decisions that need be quickly made, but for larger, "big picture" issues that take time to move on anyway, it's perfect.
So, what type of job is your dream job? What would you love to be doing?
The jobs my company is hiring for right now are almost three times the salary you're making, and like I said, the program they've announced is bringing in non-skilled workers - entry level - and all you have to do is be willing and in attendance at the orientation, then go through the extremely bad ass training process. A lot of people don't want to do the hard work, but the ones who do are guaranteed a job. And it's all from the local unemployed workforce - I hope other states adopt a program like it, if they don't have one already. It's totally awesome.
What are the jobs exactly, if I may ask? I don't mind hard work. Honestly I kind of revel in it.
And what are you looking for? What's your ideal job? Your turn to share :)
healthcare IT - making doctors better at helping people by getting them info they need. it's rewarding to boot, although can be stressful - dealing with people's lives and well-being. Not GE, for the record, hehe.
lol I'm guessing it isn't entry level with no IT education background required... That sounds like something I'd ACTUALLY enjoy!
The program is to bring in entry level people and train them in a couple months to do the high level job. It's an awesome non-profit program - I wish every state did this. I can PM you the info if you want, if you're anywhere in New England. Not sure if our open enrollment for the program is still on, but there are other companies that use this too. Local jobs, good high skill jobs, for hard workers.
Wow. New England lol If there were someone I could crash with up there I'd say it'd be worth it. But I wouldn't expect anyone I don't know to put up with my weirdness. And I've slept in my car in NE in this climate. Not happening. I wish SC had programs like that too!
Have you checked? They might... call your state and local employment agencies, check with them! It is truly an awesome program.
Have you checked with your local employment agencies? Most cities have at least one, that I know of. They would have info on any programs like that. You clearly are in a bottom tier job with a middle to top tier need... What are the skillsets you either have, or want to have? I bet we could find you some free education, too...
Never and for ever...
What state are you in?
I have a hard time believing your family of 5 does not qualify for Medicaid if you are only making $20K per year.
South Carolina. Believe me, I had a hard time believing that too.
step 1: politically motivated divorce. step 2: medicaid for you and your (ex at least legally) wife, step 3: domestic partnership life insurance. yeah, you're right, poverty is not taken seriously. people don't realize that the structre of the job market today rewards those with connections and isolates those without connections. thus you get a huge quantity of educated peoples that have no means of obtaining a job they are completely qualified to get. instead they work at less than 20K jobs. stop paying your student loans, work in your community (with your family) there are lots ofrecreational activities that are seemingly geared at men but actually are fun family oriented politically enaged activities. you just have to seek them out. *i have one in mind but will not reveal
"you get a huge quantity of educated peoples that have no means of obtaining a job they are completely qualified to get"
EXACTLY my current problem.
why did you have 3 kids if your future was not more secure?
I inherited one. Planned another when things were picking up.
Downturn! Then an "oops" baby.
Circumstances are relevant in most situations, but statistics lead us to ignore them. There are people on Medicaid that don't WANT to be on Medicaid (myself included). There are people on EBT (food stamps) that don't WANT to be on EBT (myself included). But it's difficult to use these systems that allow a "leg up". When our Medicaid was refused, the social worker ACTUALLY SUGGESTED that my wife and I get divorced to make it work. The system is TRULY broken, from the bottom to the top. A great many people seem content to break this down to a black and white issue, when it most certainly isn't. There's no "partisan" way to handle it. I would put a safe bet on the fact that any negative statistic has a fair number of people who's circumstances have heavily betrayed them.
Thank God there won't be a fourth, for reasons too numerous to list.
I think most of the problems we are having are due to a poor economy, and I think most of the cause for that is too much government, which is, by nature, parasitic. Government workers can facilitate and help, but the vast majority are in positions, that right now, only hurt business.
I'm fuzzy on the "too much government" complaint. I agree that many of our government programs are bloated and rife with corruption. But reasonable government regulation isn't a bad thing. The problem with that is regulations easily slip into the realm of being unreasonable.
I can't in good conscience say we need more government. I just think there needs to be a severe re-evaluation of what our government is doing. Some programs and departments are pretty beneficial. Cutting them has the potential to only make things worse. You'd bring in a "wild west" mentality that would recreate the problem we have now. Moderation and re-evaluation.
You make good sense. No 2 people will ever agree on all points, but it seems we think quite a bit alike. I hope you keep your spirits high and keep pushing and trying to be creative. Persistence pays off often...
Best to you and your family!
Thanks :)
Ill health tends to increase with age. Odds are that she had her kids and then developed diabetes.
While we can't be sure, it is better avoid accusing her as you did.
BTW, no one's future is secure unless they've inherited huge wealth.
Honestly, no, she was diabetic to start with. But the strain of her pregnancies combined with her diabetes created a situation that her uterus would literally burst if she tried to have another. Though pregnancy related diabetes is a very, very real thing.
I am really sorry for your wife. And you are right about the huge wealth. I don't expect security and I am very afraid of what will happen if we try to make everyone secure - it can't happen. It is a ponzi scheme thing that politicians love to use get elected, but it will surely fail...
Everyone CAN'T be secure. That's an illusion that pro-welfare people would like you to believe. But you can keep people afloat. The only problem is we've created a system that doesn't do much more than that: keep people afloat. That's where the insanely generalizing claim of generational welfare comes from. It does exist, but you can't categorize EVERYONE in a welfare system like that. Education is key. And look at how we're allowing our teachers to be mistreated.
"ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.' - JFK Ask yourself why the hell did I have three kids and I don't make enough money to support myself.
20k is 19K than most the world.
In the developed world? Or a developing or third-world country that has little to no uniform standard of living?
Most the world is not developed. If you are standing up for the 99% it is not just the 99% of wealthy Americans its 99& of the world that is being exploited by the top 1%. Cry about a income that 80% of the world would kill for doesnt make me very sympathetic.
There's plenty of economic disparity to go around, for sure. But there are multibillionaires in Europe and Asia too. A standard has to start somewhere. And yes, my income (such as it is) would make tons of people in the world better off. But it seems as though you're implying that I'm unaware of this? I am not. And I would gladly help the developing world move forward if I had the money of a Rupert Murdoch. But that's my problem. He has the money, power and influence to affect change world wide. He is not doing so. Nor are most of his economic class.
Really, your not being truthful then. 1 dollar to you is almost nothing, but could change a starving persons life. How much have you used of your money to help others? To say that the rich are not helping is not true. Who starts charity foundations? Not unemployed factory workers ( no offence to them)
So what then? Give it to a charity that most likely is skimming pretty heavily off the top? Maybe they'll get creative with the money and dump it into buying luxury SUV's like they did in Haiti. Or should I just take a month off of work, use the health insurance I don't have to get all my vaccinations and just zip off to Africa, fight off warlords just to give a starving villager a one dollar bill? And it would have to be something of economic value. They tend to frown on casually taking foods into other countries. Tell me how to realistically help, and I'll be glad to. MORE than glad to.
But I do not trust most charities. They exist mostly as tax shelters. Sure, there are genuine non-profits out there that make a difference, but they are few and far between. It might sound like nationalist rhetoric, but we do indeed have to solve OUR problems in THIS country first.
And you came to the exact issue all people have. They identify with a group and they stick with it and ignore everything else. You blame rich people for it but your not willing to look to help others either.
You could say that rich people have more money to donate. True, how do they know it will get to the people that need it most? How do they know that charities are not corrupt. Your the 1% to the rest of the world's 99% and refuse to see it. Your fight isnt against poverty is for helping middle class american remain middle class.
I basically agreed with your statement that I have it much better off than someone in the developing world. How am I refusing to see it?
And honestly? The gap between myself and a developing world person is a little smaller than the gap between myself and the middle class. Most of my socks and undergarments are well ridden with holes because clothing just "isn't in the budget". My children get maybe one or two articles of clothing that aren't hand-me-downs of some nature. I live paycheck to paycheck because my bills are outrageous (and I live in one of the CHEAP states to live in). My (well used) car is a bump in the road from being a 1500 lb. paperweight. And there's no public transportation where I live so, hey! No job! No job for a family of five! I think you're being a little naive. By the way, exactly how much are you doing for the developing world?
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btw - i can't afford health insurance - and have non. It worries me, but I plan to make more money. I do not expect somebody to take care of me. Capitalism does nothing for anybody. It is nothing but the freedom to ask someone else what you can do for them in return for something of value.
It's amusing how many here are now basically twisting JFK's words to now read:
"Ask not what you can do for your country, Demand what it can do for you!"
That's not it at all. I'm not looking for a handout. I'm looking for an opportunity at prosperity. There isn't a whole lot of that. I'm about to start making my own opportunities. Some can't though.
And plenty of former beloved political leaders have had plenty of their words twisted in recent years. It's been a bipartisan effort in that respect.
Don't serve coffee. That is not a job. That's a part time hobby. Move to a city that needs what you do. Hopefully your of use to this country. If you can't find a job somewhere in the US then give up. No country will want you. Folks here keep praising European Countries, but they will never let you in without a skill. Try getting into Mexico or Canada without a skill. Go to vocational school.
Sounds like you need to get another job and stop wasting your time posting on this web site
Got another job. Check the threads.