Forum Post: it is a flood of newbie troll crap !!!
Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 16, 2012, 4:16 p.m. EST by bensdad
(8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
they must be VERY scared
Public Forum
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This forum is dominated not by social activists but by a handful of Dem political apologetics. And OWS would certainly be better off without them.
My only regret is that I have but one twinkle to give for that comment.
Alrighty then, stinkles it shall be - on your guard, sir: !
lol scared lol whatever helps you sleep at nite!! (new troll by the way)
Old Troll here, who hasn't had a good night's sleep since Obama moved onto Penn Ave
I just joined this site 24 hours ago, and read the rules very carefully before I posted anything or made any comments.
It is absolutely clear that the rules are hardly being observed. The amount of trolling, flaming and outright absurdity is unbelievable. It is as if these rules don't exist or they site doesn't care to hold the fire to people's behinds who without rhyme, reason, or reservation roam the site in order to muffle constructive conversation.
It is very difficult to interact with genuine users while this behavior goes unchecked. One guy assumes I am another, another guy is calling me TechJunkie, another saying he sees my IP and associating me with 2 other names, another doing nothing but starting arguments with commentators posting constructive positive dialogue, and the crap goes on... and I've only just joined the site barely 24 hours.
At what point do the moderators step in to curb this behavior?
Until they do. A common bit of wisdom is "If you don't feed the trolls, eventually they go away." Perhaps this issue is more in our own hands to deal with than we might imagine.
I mean we know there is no point. Arguing, but for what? Trying to have an intelligent, reasonable discourse. If in a few exchanges you cannot achieve this end, /ignore and then the usual behavior must change. Most trolls desire to be acknowledged. They are usually attention seekers who don't mind it good or bad.
If we can exercise this discipline collectively, for the most part, they should disappear. Although I don't doubt they'll quit trying to get a rise of many of us immediately. Stick to the discipline though. Being consistent is probably the most effective thing we can do to curb this unwanted behavior without having to task the moderators with a nearly impossible job.
Why feed the troll any longer? Dignifying it with a response has proven to be counter-productive and downright wasteful. I detest wastefulness on every conceivable level.
Its over, because I said so. done here...
Richard, are you talking to yourself now? You're using Anomilus to reply to Anomilus? Have you gone nuts? What's with this strange anomaly? Just come back as richardkentgates to show us you are OK. I'm starting to worry now.
That is indeed truly odd. It appears a bit like somebody forgot to switch user accounts when they were playing a sock puppet game.
Richard has been acting very strangely in the last week. I'm a bit worried about him to tell you the truth. I like the guy. First he left and said he wouldn't come back. Then he came back as Archimedes, and now Anomilus. He also came back as the original richardkentgates today. Maybe he got confused like you say and forgot to change his users. I don't know. I just hope he's OK.
Maybe it's an experiment in performance art. Kind of like flipping the script on sock puppetry. Multiple personalities within the same sock puppet talking out loud to themselves.
That's sort of how I consider my work here. I don't know about richard. I think he was trying to pass himself off as me when he used the Archimedes character. Who knows. Anyhow, there is only on Man of a Million Monikers here and that's me.
When I came back here after a few months off, I thought that it was pretty funny how everybody here is so obsessed with you but yet they still can't spell "Thrasymaque".
You're these people's Trotsky The Saboteur. People in the USSR spent decades after the revolution blaming everything that went wrong on a conspiracy directed by Trotsky. He was their version of Satan, who they blamed for all ills. You seem to be this forum's version of him.
Do you know how many times shooz and others blamed me for destroying OWS? My reply was always that if one person on one forum can destroy OWS then OWS was never strong to begin with. They fail to understand this. I never came here with the intention of being a "troll". I was made a "troll". I have always supported OWS, but I don't follow it like a cult member. I criticize what I see as being harmful for OWS because I want the protest to be the best that it can be. I don't know why, but Americans seem very upset when a person criticizes. For some reason, they don't understand that critiques should be considered as good friends. So yeah, they considered me a "troll" and I just played with it. It's not important. I'm mostly here to practice writing and to share some ideas. Their logical fallacies cannot hurt those ideas, and if they need someone to blame the failings of OWS on, then so be it, I'll take the blame. In any case, there are few intellectuals here. You're a good poster and I hope you don't get banned. If people keep getting banned like this, the forum will be left with DKAtoday's and shooz's and will then sink in badly formed rhetoric.
You may be this guy, you may be that guy......hell, you may not even be a guy, but in the end all you've ever been is a badly written soap opera.
I repeat..................a BADLY written soap opera.
Perhaps you are correct. My interpretation of you is a man obsessed with the use of logical fallacies such as ad hominem, red herrings galore, appeal to motive, appeal to authority, argumentum verbosium, argumentum ad ignorantiam, and the list goes on and on and on.
You are a red herring. You always will be.
Face that simple fact and get on with your life.
Soap opera boy.
You've yet to add anything of positive importance to anything here.
Ever.
trashy monster? U still trying to hide behind your lies for the benefit of misleading any new people to the forum?
New people? I think I've been here for a month or two longer than him.
Not U and U should know better then to support the trashy. New people - people who look in but don't necessarily participate.
Why do you automatically assume that I "support the trashy" simply because I'm capable of having a respectful conversation with another person? I personally think that many of his actions over the last year really have crossed the line into troll behavior, and I consider that to be a lack of discipline on his part, just like partisanship is a lack of discipline for an Occupier. And just like snarky condescension is a failure of discipline on my part when I do that. But should that opinion prevent me from having a respectful conversation with him as a fellow human being? He says a lot of things that make a lot of sense as well. You have to take the good with the bad, in all people.
People are people and will have varying opinions and perspectives - honest people can have respectful and meaningful conversations. But to say you are gonna have a respectful conversation with a forum attacker ( trashy ) is silly to say the least.
I have done just that many times. It's really not that difficult to have a respectful conversation with a person who doesn't necessarily agree with you. Most people learn to do that by kindergarten.
You've been here 22 days more than I.
Mislead new people to the forum? You think new people arriving here have been mislead? Was it your hope that they would have ended up at moveon.org instead? I don't care why people make it here, whether they are mislead to this site or come here in full consciousness, I am happy to have new users that make this site grow. Most new users have been VQkag2 and your sock puppets you have been creating lately. My hope is to have new genuine users.
Soap opera alert!!
At least it is on an appropriate thread for it - Hey?
It certainly is...........:)
So we can call this thread the entertainment relief thread - a place for the useless distractions of the shills.
U are the sock puppet user and VQ who did a stupid thing in using sock puppets. U however have always attacked this site and have in the past called it useless and a waste of time - in your various attacks in trying to get the site shut down. Now you are trying a new tack - a new tack for those who do not know your past - a seeming support of this site and OWS and all Occupy groups and movements.
U will fail - as U always fail - as U always let your mask slip.
Don't know why the moderators don't boot your ass immediately. Instead they let you play for awhile before booting your ass again and again and again.
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This happens after almost every action day.
The "wingers" get all riled up, and come up with stuff like "picking on bigots is bigotry".
OWS is dead...........again.
Obama did this or that.
Oh yeah...and why can't OWS be just like the teabagge(R)s?
I'm surprised they haven't dragged abortion back into the mess.
The best way to stop them is by sticking to topics that focus on progressive taxation and stimulus. They can talk about NDAA and the military -industrial complex all day, because that stuff is Ron Drawl approved.
We've been out numbered in here for the last few days.
Besides, my last thread on inequity took a pretty fast fall.
I didn't make the title lurid enough to be noticed?
I've been using the search function to try to find stuff, I guess I missed it. This one got buried pretty fast:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-we-should-not-focus-on-the-national-debt-at-le/
make a list of those threads that focus on progressive taxation and stimulus. and support them with comments
Dude, I've been searching and there are hardly ANY. You have to go back like a year.
start a thread
or if you like
Forum Topics
I started this thread earlier today. It's a very non-libertarin anti-Ron Drawl thread against debt-mongering. Feel free to post a response.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-we-should-not-focus-on-the-national-debt-at-le/
This place has been a libe(R)tarian playground since it went live, so nothing new there, although they are less likely these days to admit their allegiance.
Preferring of course, to claim non-partisanship.
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Uh no I was telling you that blanket hatred for entire groups of people based on labels is bigotry.
There was the additional subtext that it's ironic for a liberal to express bigotry against the far right, since bigotry and intolerance is one of the things that theoretically liberals are opposed to.
Well, when we fought the British for independence we had to make an exception, Royalists and Loyalists were bastards. Today their the GOP. Life, it's full of exceptions, nuance and lesser evils.
Ah so you're another one of those people. Unable to look beyond your own ideological prejudices in order to work to unite the 99% against government corruption.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/common-ground-one-way-forward-there-should-be-no-c/
I'll work with anyone who's for truth. justice and the American way.
Teabaggers are Astro Turf!
Are you the latest guy here who thinks that I'm a Tea Partier because I typed the words "Tea Party"? You failed to read or understand any of what was written on that page but you saw the words "Tea Party" and had a knee-jerk reflex to pull out the "tea baggers" slur and start talking about Koch brothers astroturfing?
Facts and reality, they have a liberal bias and a conservative aversion. Don't worry, I won't attack you. I've seen the fallacious post, and I know all about the teabags, that's all.
Right, yes, confirmed. You're yet another Occupier who is unable to look beyond your own ideological prejudices in order to work for what's best for the entire 99%.
This site's URL may as well just redirect to http://www.barackobama.com
Don't sit there and spew your teabag downturn capitulation and claim we don't accept other views. Yours stink, get some new ones.
Right, okay, I'm pushing for people to rise above the partisan squabbling that divides us and keeps the entire 99% down -- and you respond by labeling me a tea bagger while insisting that you accept other views. You're a walking oxymoron.
You sound a lot like hc. I'll try and be more understanding with you later. Now you just sound like hc.
They frequently attack together! More than 1 user here has identified them as divisive, anti dem partisan repubs.
We have bigger fish to fry.
Agreed. Best to ignore them, if possible.
I'm pushing both of you and the other rabid partisans to look beyond the left/right dichotomy and recognize that the entire 99% is in this together and that we need to work together in order to make our country better.
What you're pushing for is the status quo. More of the same partisan squabbling that has never accomplished anything. You're actively fighting against progress and against half of the 99%.
In your opinion.!
I believe I'm fighting for an economic strategy that will benefit the 99%. That will create real fairness. That will correct the unfair redistribution of wealth from the 99% to the 1%.
I think you are fighting for the 1%. I think you are acloset tea party supporter who comes here to personally attack OWS supporters. You appear to just want to twist words, and be divisive. You are frequently attacking dems & Pres Obama, and praising tea party/conservatives.
So we disagree. 'sok. We're allowed to disagree. It's good.
We agree on money out of politics but not on an economic recovery plan.
I support stimulus, tax increases on the 1%, & defense cuts!
What do you support?
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Haha, "I'm not a bigot but I hate those fools."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox
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Cons
Nor-man Gold-man
Aww, I'm sad that you're unable to comprehend the paradox. Very disappointing.
so whats your opinion of democrat obama , the doj and fast and furious? this govt gave guns to mexican drug cartels, the end game was supposed to result in complete gun control meaning the abolishment of the 2nd ammendent. this dem president supported the ovethrow of gadaffi, supplying the insurgents with tens of millions of $ worth of high tech American guns. do you think that al queeda didnt notice all those guns? they were used to murder the american ambassador. the phoney film story of why the muslims were rioting and killing is just that, a phoney story. the dems kept pushing that lie until they couldnt. rice ( us ambassador the the UN ) lied and so did hillary. things got out of control with muslims in the mid east, africa, and other places , rioting. the 47% story re romney wasnt planned to be put out until late october, but was put out now to re-focus the news cycle. obama and jarrett are dirty. the goal of this administration is to subjugate the entire population. you get what they say you get in terms of food and shelter. i am NOT a conspriracy theorist. pay attention. look beyond your small world problems. nothing in politiccs happens by chance, things are connected.
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why did rice say this was because of a film trailer and hillary said the same thing, now hillary said that this pre-planned,. why a change in the " official " explanation?. why are ads being run in pakistan , with obama and hillary still apoligizing for the film? any comment on fast & furious? see this adminstration for what is , not what you want to think it is.
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AKA (R) Zombie. Walking Dead.
no, i am a realist. you call me names ( certainly your right to do so) but offer no rebuttal on what i posted.
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obama supported ( and supplied with arms) the " arab spring" knowing it would put the muslim brotherhood in power. do you undertand what the muslims brotherhood is? do you know that they are responsible for the muder of anwar sadat?
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the muslim brotherhood. in both egypt and libya.ever hear of huma abedin? she's hillarys closest aide, she was member fo the muslim student association which is a front group for the muslim brotherhood.she ws the head of their social committee. her mother, father and brother are afilliated with the muslim brotherhood, the muslim sisterhood, and the IMMA, and the world assembly of muslim youth. all these groups espouse terrorism , anti semitism and and anti american policies. and married to former congressman anthony weiner( D-NY) he had to resign due to the ( semi) nude pictures he posted of himself on the web. bill officiated at their wedding.
Hey, I know you! You're that NUT that calls Alan Colmes all the time.
Admit you get your talking points from the Savage Weeny!!
i dont know the person ( people ?) you're talking about.
How many teeth you missing?
As you can clearly see from his hopelessly polarized world view, he watches a lot of television. He seems to be talking about something relating to the pundit circus on 24-hour news channels.
thanks for the explanation.
Oh so now you speak for 2 billion muslims in the world.
Or are you pushing this lie to continue perpetrating the fear mongering republicans began 11 years ago after they exploited the 9/11 attacks in order to wage 2 illegal wars, and violate our constitutional rights.?
Don't be so afraid that you let the govt trample our rights & the constitution.
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You sound anti muslim. Like that wacko Bachman. Forget the anti dem partisanship & support the solutions that can correct the conservative policy debacle and help the 99%.
muslims are anti YOU.
building bombs 'til bunkers boil
getting paid for shell filled toil
if I am to work tomorrow
lobe the load on foreign soil
yep US only pays 41% of the total world military budget
World Military budget in Billions (percent total) by Nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
Global Arms Sales By Supplier Nations
39% United States
18% Russia
8% France
7% United Kingdom
5% Germany
3% China
3% Italy
11% Other European
5% Others
http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the-arms-trade-is-big-business#GlobalArmsSalesBySupplierNations
TOP 10 Arms Produces
Notes: An S denotes a subsidiary company. A dash (–) indicates that the company did not rank among the SIPRI Top 100 for 2009
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/02/arms-sales-top-100-producers
Widow Winchester's riffle wealth warped her house.
Stairs to ceilings. Windows to walls.
Always slept in a new room,
hiding from shot souls
Iceland.
80-90% Voter turnout! Banksters in prison! Nationalization of Vulture Capitalist Banks! Zero fraudulent wars for Big$!
http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/iceland-victory-president-of-iceland-tells-us-how-he-had-balls-to-stop-taxpayers-out-banksters-explains-why-world-needs-to-rethink-its-addiction-to-finance-iceland-declares-independence-from-inte/
46 days to get started getting out our inner Iceland!
Can we really trust the numbers the governments of China and Russia release on arms sales?
not at all
although bulk is hard to hide
so my guess is the numbers are fairly accurate
Probably not. Especially on China with all their spending on a deepwater navy.
bite me
They get so faux serious when you point out how absurd that is.
As though not to accept such BS is some kind of affrontery.
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http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/gop_lawmaker_lazy_people_should_not_vote_20120920/
They will even defend that crap.
Not to mention it seems to always herald a return of our old nemesis.
Here again under 2 names in 2 days.
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Don't associate me with TechJunkie I have my own site, ideals, and identity and in no way want to be involved with TJ in any way. He trolls and flames, accuses people of 'slurring' news organization, enjoys recreational drugs and confuses comments at a moments whim.
I am happily available to have cool conversation with anyone willing to discuss doing something constructive. No offense taken, I know he is quite unbearable, I just don't want to be lumped in with a personality like his. I don't recall having any kind of exchange and hope you don't mind clearing my good name sir.
In the meantime if you think I am anyone other than myself, instead of falsely accusing innocent users of being him, alert a moderator or admin and they can solve the problem and inform you that I am certainly NOT TechJunkie.
Have a good one.
We know, your are not TechJunkie, you are richardkentgates as your IP indicates quite clearly.
Have a good one sir.
Whatever that is supposed to mean. You cannot see my IP. So quit slandering my name. I wasn't aware this is what is common on this site. It is kind of depressing to see a place with such potential devolved to this kind of Bullshit.
/me thinks it is time for moderators to begin reigning this behavior in.
The only BS is that you were richardkentgates 2 minutes ago and now you've logged in as Anomilus. Why the trickery? You're being like VQkag2 now? Just be like me and make it obvious who you are. And dude, don't use ancient Greek names like Archimedes again. That makes people think you are me, and I am you. And yes, I can see your IP. That's how I know that Archimedes, Anomilus, and richardkentgates are the same person, unless they are all using the same library computer.
You sound like a complete ass. Report it to a moderator, and see what happens. Nothing, because you are full of shit. Proxies are detectable with freeware these days.
Legitimize your insanity by using that abuse email, and making a fool of yourself. Don't worry I won't hold my breath for an apology.
You probably aren't a real person. What genuine occupy supporter would use the handle of rothschildthe3rd(spelling on your part ya)? You're here to sew confusion and discord among those who are really here to collaborate and advance #OWS. In fact, whoever hired you is probably more afraid of actual conversation and progress that you and many others like you have only one job here and that is to waste other people's time and 'hope' to discredit those users that will crush your masters...
Oh... sorry I was just playing along with your lunacy.... next.
Better still, not next. Alert a moderator if you suspect some imaginary abuse of multiple accounts. I don't have any more time to waste with a fake shadow hiding behind a name. You aren't even real, you're a fake, a phony, nobody knows who you are and thank you for showing how completely irrelevant anything you say really is.
I'm not going to report this Richard. It doesn't bother me if you want to use many sock puppets. Just remember that I'm The Man of a Million Monikers around here. It's my super power. Why copy it? I'm sure you can find a super power of your own. You're a cook. Use that to your advantage.
You know I'm from Bard. You figured that out a few weeks ago. Nobody is hiding anymore.
My current username was specially designed to go against one of arturo's New World Order conspiracy theories. I'm not really part of the Global Elite, don't worry.
yaaaawns
you'll have to do better.
Just log out and log back in as richardkentgates. I replied to a few of your comments and I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks Richie.
It just throws its own feces on it's own face. No substance, no legitimacy. just a hollow individual with no standing.
Where are the moderators?
multiple perspectives
He once admitted to me that he set his puppets up in such a way as to allow him to "loan" them out. Whatever that means.
So it could be him, or it could be some other form of pretender. It really doesn't matter.
I attack BS where I can, when I can, in whatever way I can.
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All I can do is engage the user and call him on the BS, there's never a lack of that, although it's been repetitious of late.
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Bore us to death is the more likely result.
It's like threads based on FLAKESnews crap. Like suddenly they learned integrity.
Like suddenly they aren't FLAKESnews anymore.
LOL
big Media must change because of the internet
Yeah, they play youtube clips now. Woop.
yep, anyone can broadcast these days
That's the thing, there's even less integrity in that.
They have a typical MO:
Confusion, ignorance, skulduggery, and misplaced defiance aside, we have a pretty good forum. But I don't think politics suits some/many on here. That said, let's get out our inner Iceland ~ 80-90% Voter turnout, Banksters in jail ~ 46 days and counting!
Here's ten MO: http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/10-desperate-and-depressed-conservative-reactions-romneys-47-percent-moment?paging=off
Iceland definitely got it right! I heard something about how the new course being set by female politicians.
Maybe that's what we should try!? Certainly 80-90% turnout would do the trick. I support mandatory universal sufferage! It's what the 1% fear the most.
First female president.
They fell for the Bankster fraud, but they refused the bailout and instead nationalized their asses and assets! What we should have done and relocated Wall Street to strip malls on main street!
This is what turnout could get us. This is what Big$ turnout and sacrifice is getting the 1%.
We have 46 days to get out our inner Iceland!!
If only!. It is what we need. It will have to be next cycle. This time we will have same barely 60% turnout (or less if repub suppress plans work)
One step at a time.
Good to see a reasonable forward thinker on the forum. Most are chased away by a few closet right wingers so be careful & stay strong.
Solidarity.
Leh Valensa has gone to the dark side. Solidarity often turns to que sera sera.
Well. He's done much good I believe. I will let his recent mistake slide. It hasn't really hurt the progressive movement. And it certainly didn't overshadow the romney gaffs on that trip. LMFAO!
That was entertaining.
Except the rest of the world thinks we think Twit's a viable POTUS!!
I thought the conventions were very telling. And the peanut gallery Dem bashing I saw on here.
Oh there was a massive effort to attack dems during the conventions. I was very busy. but they had no lasting affect.
This site needs to shake off the preoccupation with anti Obamaism. Whatever mistakes, failures, weaknesses he exhibits we need to be focused on real progressive solutions.
Not because it is democrat (dems have moved right in the last 30 years) but because it is the best thing for the 99%
What astounds me is that his opposition blatantly gangs up on him, a dozen boots on his neck, in plain view for the world to see, and they say "See, he won't even stand up!" And then people take that in and say how disappointed they are that Obama won't stand up! It's like some weird hypnosis or Body Snatcher pod people thing.
Nevertheless, look at all the accomplishments they made in the few working days they had the House and the Senate. Think of what could have been accomplished if the tens of millions of newbie voters didn't fall for the obstructionist dog pile right before their eyes, letting all the teabaggers sweep into congress and state governments. We need to go Iceland. We need to exercise our majority!
Too many progressives went to sleep after we elected Pres Obama. But we are awake now, And I hear Obama (& other dems) just today saying they have to govern by going to, and using the people as leverage.
That is where large protests might have impact.
It's Alive! Occupy Actions Across the Country Show the Movement's Impact: http://www.alternet.org/activism/its-alive-occupy-actions-across-country-show-movements-impact
Click on WI flag for closer humor: http://www.prairie2.com/2012/09/reality-is-setting-in.html
Good article - gr8 for welcoming the day of global protest against fracking.
Repeat: http://www.alternet.org/activism/its-alive-occupy-actions-across-country-show-movements-impact
And heres a little graphic that hopefully you can see.
http://www.nationofchange.org/occupy-movement-bears-fruit-1347980872
You're out of replies, below.
Hey, have you followed this Iceland thing? I knew that they got majorly screwed by the whole Chicago School of economics scam/debacle, but thanks to a tip by Builder, I have just now researched all the legal - citizen - electoral - police and Interpol action these awesome people have gotten busy with! We should really really copy Iceland!!
Then follow Iceland's example.
Their first step is direct democracy via internet voting.
Get on it.
Further to that, numbers are what make for change.
The more people you can get onside, with the most individual IP addresses, the more sway your org can have.
Get on it. I'm down under. You know. That place south of the border that is the same size as the US of A? With a tenth of the population base.
I suppose I don't know everything but I support everything I've read as well as the outcome.
I'm on board with direct democracy, certainly the prosecution of bankers, What else is there?
How do we get there.?
The protests are going to have to get much, much larger than the ones we saw last Sept-Dec if its going to get an impact.
I guess we should just give up. We should all just find a corner to crawl into and let the greedy, selfish republicans dismantle SS & medicare.
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You didn't understand my last point. OWS should be a democratic place for us to unify behind our common goals of fighting unemployment and inequity.
OWS should NOT be a place for fringe radicals, right and left, to randomly gripe until we find issues in common. THAT sir will get us nowhere.
OWS has been derailed by trolls and infiltrators who have the intent of avoiding the topic of fiscal policy.
such threads exist but we are not derailed by them on the forum
How many threads in the last month have to do with income disparity or unemployment? What about progressive taxation? What about stimulus? Where the hell are those threads?
They get buried in all the bullshit and soap operas.
That happens to a lot of important threads.
The soap operas about how wrong Republicans are, you mean? The stuff that you post? It's funny to see you complaining about that when you're one of the worst culprits.
Not really what I was referring to, though I don't find it a surprise that that is all you can see.
Why don't you explain to me how the (R)epelican'ts are correct, and how they are willing to give in for the sake of compromise.
To find that "middle ground" you are trying to claim.
So far, I have seen no evidence for that in anything you've had to say since your return.
That's exactly the response that I was expecting.
Yours too........Vapid, uninformative and unresponsive, with an air of faux superiority.
Unconditional Basic Income $1000 for every US citizen age 21 +
Drone Strike Killed another 13 civilians on Sunday - You still think that's not a war crime?
not much on taxation currently
The "unconditional basic income" thread is interesting. Still, nothing on basic stimulus. Nothing on progressive taxation. Closing tax loophole for the rich and corporations.
start a thread on basic stimulus and support it
the poor will spend the money providing basic stimulus
I've been posting this link over and over all week and trying to focus on that instead of partisan squabbling, but I've mostly been shouted down by conservaphobes.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/common-ground-one-way-forward-there-should-be-no-c/
Teabags are Astro Turf.
Who's giving Wall Street trillions of dollars?
The Federal Reserve is one of many problems. Along with money in politics. Endless wars. Illegal drones. Income inequality. Corporate takeover... Private Prisons...Assault on unions...etc.
If you don't think the federal reserve is part of the problem look at the trillion dollars they gave to Bank of America.
One of the tasks of the Federal Reserve is to foster a maximum employment economy. Where's the maximum employment?
They have chosen to use nonmonetary policies to do that. Unlimited resources for the banks... nothing for the people.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/money_12848.htm
The government owes money to the federal reserve, almost 2 trillion. All because the federal reserve created money out of nothing to buy the government debt.
The Fed creates money out of nothing... they give it to banks... the banks keep it on deposit... fat cat city for CEO and they give themselves fat bonuses.
7.7 trillion dollars to banks from the Fed - Democrat Dennis Kucinich explains to Congress - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1dkZShYP78
There's a difference between liberals and blind party supporters.
Dude, I guarantee that nobody here is a blind supporter of the Democratic party. Why else would we be here? I'm sure that any of the "liberals" here could go on for days criticizing the Dems. That statement is just totally bogus.
For the record, I think the problem with libertarian trolls is their blind free-market fundamentalism, not allegiance to the Rs.
That's a fair point and it's similar to my criticism of people assuming that I'm here from the Tea Party to proselytize. Assuming that somebody who criticizes a Republican must be a Democrat is the same exact kind of error that falls into the same either-or trap.
I never said you belonged to the Tea Party. I said you belonged there because you are a free-market fundamentalist and debt-fetishist.
Why do you think that I'm a "free-market fundamentalist"? I have literally never mentioned "free-market" anything even one time in the entire year that I've been posting here. "Debt-fetishist" makes just as little sense. (Kudos for diction though, that was pretty nice.)
I think you apparently have me confused with somebody else. Either that or you've labeled me and then extrapolated assumptions about what I think from that label.
From your posts, I gather that you are opposed to any public debt, and you oppose any regulation of the financial sector. Is that not the case?
No it's not, and I'm really amused by your fascinating blend of assumption, prejudice and hyperbole. "Oppose any regulation"? Really? I'm still literally giggling at the "free-market fundamentalist" hyperbole.
Those are phrases borrowed from Stiglitz, and they describe conservative dogma that is very prevalent in the US.
OK, so in what cases is deficit spending OK? When is financial regulation warranted?
All I have seen you do is argue, so that's all I have to go on.
I'm not here to talk about wedge issues like deficit spending or financial regulation. You don't think that those are wedge issues because you're only thinking about people who agree with you when you say that everybody agrees. But I'm thinking about the entire 99%.
Let's talk about something that isn't a wedge issue, like how to eliminate the corrupting influence of money over our political system.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/at-the-core-of-our-government-is-a-corruption/
That's exactly how you libertarian trolls are impeding progress. Anything you disagree with, as free-market fundamentalists and debt-fetishists, is a "wedge issue".
The real issue is public morality vs. private morality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TB73Lw1XtE
I can agree with most of that video but I do think that it's important to remember that "progressives" in the context that he's using it does not refer to the same left/right dichotomy that most people on this site are so obsessed with.
Reich gives credit to "progressives" for trust busting in the 1900s without mentioning that the leader of that progressive movement was Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican.
"The Progressive Party of 1912 was an American political party. It was formed by former President Theodore Roosevelt"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(United_States,_1912)
You walked right into that one, jackass. You can't back up your statements with anything. I have not seen a single post on this entire forum that touts the D party line.
I walked right into what? The (short-lived) Progressive Party was founded by Teddy Roosevelt, and he was the leader then of the progressive movement. And for the eight years that he was President of the United States, busting trusts, he was a Republican. GOP. Were you denying that or did I misunderstand you?
My point was simply that many people today (including possibly you?) incorrectly treat progressivism as solely the domain of the left side of today's left/right divide. But "progressive" does not mean "left". I was just pointing out that many people might get the wrong idea from that portion of the video that you cited, since today people treat "left" and "progressive" as synonyms.
What is wrong with the right wing of today, that they are all against unions, trust busting and regulation?
Too bad today's right wingers don't actually know what TR was all about.
Find me one right winger today that isn't a union-busting free-market advocate, and I'll...
Doesn't seem to be much difference between you and anti dem, pro repub partisan.
Simply Brilliant Comment !!! Inspired , LOL !! Thanx TYNC !
It's all only variations on the theme of 'Right-Wing' from my view !!
We need a 'Revolution of Everyday Living' - based upon Logic & Love !!!
It ain't rocket science ; it's warm hearts and cool heads and love for us and our shared hommmme....
pax, amor et lux ...
So being angry at the dems for betraying their values makes you a troll? If I'm not mistaken theNDAA had strong bi-partisan support. Or what about the fact that a dem pres has openly assassinated americans and is fighting the ruling that indefinate detention is unconstitutional. I would have expected this behavior from reps.
What the hell does any of that have to do with wealth disparity and unemployment? The free-market trolls keep changing the subject.
The fact that we can be locked up without any rights is the most importent issue we face nowadays. Can't you see our rights being given up without a fight by mainstream america? I came back to this website hoping to find OWS fightingback against the NDAA. How long do you think it will take before protesters are deemed a threat to "national security" and we start disappearing one by one?
Keeping us poor and desperate is the easiest way to take away our voices. Furthermore, OWS started over income disparity:
http://www.vanityfair.com/society/features/2011/05/top-one-percent-201105
Now a bunch of trolls want to change it to WTC7, or NDAA, or killer drones, or whatever flavor of the month issue that comes along. We need focus.
TommyNYC, I am glad to read you. FOCUS MAN!
How long will this Anomilus fantasy go on Richard?
It's almost as if the 1% tyranny over the 99% exists in a sealed capsule completely unconnected to the political world in 2012 America, to "Newbie Trolls."
Forget them, let's go Iceland, only 46 days to get started!
You sure throw the term troll around a lot. With the way the system is set up closing the wealth gap is almost impossble. We need to A) make sure we fight police brutality and the stripping of our rights or we will disappear when we cause too much trouble. B) get public finance of elections or else the 1% will drown out our voices through their bought politicians. C) get control of our media so we can pass our message to the rest of the country. Once we accmplish those 3 things then cloing the obscene wealth gap will be a walk in the park.
Disagree. Those things will take years to fix. A stimulus needs to happen NOW, before we are all enslaved in poverty. The US is slipping into 3rd world status. Once the rich have all the money, they will be totally entrenched and we wont be able to stop them.
I say you are a troll because you have a very fishy sense of priorities. OWS got of track once it started focusing on police brutality. It reminds me of 9/11: we let the terrorists win. Well, OWS let the police win once it changed focus.
I think our rights should be a top priority. I think stimulus would help in the short term but the real problem is the merging of corporations and government. We are looking at major changes that need to be made in order to close the wealth gap and corporate control of our police, politicians, and media will be the main obstacles we face.
Respectfully, you are wrong. The whole point of the stimulus is to improve things in the long term. It needs to happen now, because thats how counter-cyclical fiscal policy works.
The other problems you mention have been ongoing for... hundreds of years. They can wait another 6 months or so.
I agree TommyNYC, the stimulus needs go directly to the people who are most likely to spend the money back into the economy, which just might create jobs, and spark economy just a tad bit.... not just shoveling random Trillions or Billions into banks who are hoarding the cash and exchanging their risk to the US gov in return for the money.
Respectfully, Goldman Sachs is DYING for more stimulus.
The last thing they want is real solutions. Just spend their money.
Tommy seems to be full of big words that lack meaning in the offered context.
Which sock are you again?
Back atcha, homie. It is good to see you learning the phases around introspective thought, but so far, they're still just words with no understanding. Keep trying, you'll catch on.
Sorry I'm going too fast for you, I will definitely try to dumb it down next time.
Politics is a confusing subject to some people.
He's just another idiot going off of feel good FOX/MSNBC talking points. No depth on anything.
What a ludicrous smear.
How does spending the income of future generations improve things in the long term?
If there is no infrastructure than there is no upward mobility. It's just like a business, you need to invest if you ever want to make money.
The oligarchs already have the money.
They own the printing press.
Now that the manufacturing base is outside of the US, there is no need to maintain the infrastructure of the US.
You consumers just need to get used to a fractured and faulty environment, and keep spending.
nay·say·er: one who denies, refuses, opposes, or is skeptical or cynical about something
So, you have absolutely nothing productive to offer.
Ask Raygun, Bush, Cheney and Twit.
clarify and amplify our voice
I've had a NO WAR signature for 10 years
not a flavor of the month
I am very anti-war, but that is not what this movement started about, as far as I can tell. "Occupy Wall St." to me means "regulate the financial sector". "We are the 99%" to me means "fight wealth disparity and create opportunities for all". Did I miss the memo or something?
disparity is enforced through fear and violence
Disagree. Disparity is enforced through a crumbling infrastructure, low wages and unfair taxation.
interest and rent
We're not gonna outlaw landlords and interest lending any time soon, it just ain't gonna happen. We need to focus on realistic change that has a substantial effect. It is possible but it requires optimism and careful thought.
landlords and interest lending have a substantial effect
You're not listening. We are not going to outlaw renting and lending. Period. Give it up.
bite me
as Obama has called for an injunction of the federal overturn
I imagine the US has already got some ice
As long as you do it cognizant of the GOP's obstruction and betrayal of our democracy and country in mercenary service to the 1% whose tyranny over the 99% is the fundamental basis of OWS context.
Perhaps in that context you will want to get out our inner Iceland, where the Voter turnout is 80-90%, they prosecute and convict Banksters, and they don't start fraudulent wars to allow Big$ bosses to redistribute our treasury to their offshore accounts; instead of bitching about an infinitely lesser offender party trying to survive to do the right thing for an electorate with the lowest Voter turnout in the world!
Get out the Iceland!! Let's get Jamie Dimon a room with a view of Bernie Madoff!!
Same old trolls, same old message, new set of monikers.
Dat's all it is.
check the live stream shadz posted.......:)
[Removed]
Correct...America is very afraid of another 4 years of rule under the idiot socialist Obama.
Exciting isn't it?
lol you said a mouthful there partner :)
Refocus on getting Americans to work.
Stimulus for infrastructure, greentech. tax the 1%, cut the tax/debt for the middle/working class, cut the defense budget. reward insourcing, penalize outsourcing.