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Forum Post: Israel=A brutal terrorist state

Posted 9 years ago on July 26, 2014, 7:21 a.m. EST by struggleforfreedom80 (6584)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Israel has now, within a few weeks, murdered over 900 Palestinians. Israel, which is conducting an illegal occupation of Palestine, as well as a vicious blockade of Gaza, claims it has the right to defend itself from the people it is oppressing by murdering children and innocent civilians.

Rockets being launched into Israel should be denounced as well, but in order to understand the Israel/Palestine conflict, we have to look at the root causes of it. Hamas aren't firing rockets into Israel for no reason, they're doing it because of Israel's vicious treatment of Palestinians.

The root cause of this conflict is Israel's illegal occupation and the vicious blockade.

Israel should start accepting international law and withdraw from the occupied territories, accept the international consensus (the 1967-borders), stop the blockade, and stop murdering civilians.

As long as Israel continues on with current policies, and as long as U.S. leaders continue to support them, the violence and atrocities will continue.




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[-] 12 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

It will be claimed that Hamas began firing their militarily ineffectual rockets at Israel first, so triggering Israel’s latest War Of Choice. But this is not true. In fact far from acting in self-defence, the crisis is a direct result of deliberate actions by Israel over the last few weeks - first to stir up anti-Arab sentiment among Israel's own population & then to try to provoke Hamas into an open conflict - whereby it could be attacked and destroyed - again and for the third time in six years.

After the kidnapping and cruel murder of those three Israeli kids (not that long after two similarly aged Palestinian kids were murdered by an IDF sniper, whilst clearly NOT engaged in any crime other than walking whilst being Palestinian and I could easily link to a CCT video of that) - then for more than two weeks Israeli authorities put on a show of looking for the missing teens ... the whole time whipping up anti-Arab sentiment in preparation of war, raising hopes of a recovery & marginalizing voices of dissent.

When the abductees were found murdered - the Israeli public was outraged and demanded vengeance. Shortly after the funerals for the youths, another group of Israeli settlers beat and burned to death a 16-year-old Palestinian teenager. That incident was itself followed by a brutal assault on a 15-year-old US citizen and cousin of the murdered Palestinian kid by the IDF.

However, another VERY Important Fact that is less known ... but perhaps more important, is that within hours of the three teens’ disappearance on June 12th - Israeli officials knew that they were dead. Yet for the next two weeks authorities put on a totally phony rescue effort ; instituted a gag order to prevent the public from knowing the truth and rallied the Jewish domestic and diaspora populations in anticipation of their move against Hamas.

Knowing that the teens were really already dead, Israel's Likud government even sent the mothers of the abductees to the ''United Nations’ Human Rights Council'', to raise international awareness and plead for their boys’ safe return.The IDF then launched ''Operation Brother’s Keeper'' the single most extensive military operation in the West Bank for more than a decade, under the auspices of .. 'saving the missing teens' whom again, they knew to be already dead.Many hundreds of arrests & detentions then occurred.

The blame for the abduction and murder immediately went to just Hamas ... which strongly denied any involvement whatsoever, in the kidnapping. Israel has offered no concrete proof to implicate Hamas but instead identified as its prime suspects, a rogue faction with a history of defying Hamas’ leadership, & thus sabotaging the group’s peace-building efforts with Fatah and The PLO.

They were identified early on, meaning that Israel knew full well that neither Hamas nor its armed wing, the al-Qassam Brigades - were behind the boys’ disappearance. Nonetheless, the IDF began a military campaign against them and de facto the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza.

These are the true facts of the current 'Gazastrophe' - the third in six years, against 1.8 million people, in an area of one of the highest population densities in the world. Your links are excellent btw, the 'You-Tube' video from that great journalist in particular & those famous maps of course speak for themselves.

In compliment, I append and recommend :

Please try to note in particular .. the dates and contents of the last two links as they are now prescient precursors of the present events. Ms Ashrawi is a long term PLO Exec. Comm. member & a Christian.

oremus - fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 9 points by beautifulworld (23740) 9 years ago

"As long as we continue to give our money, weapons, and unquestioning support to Israel, the blood is on our hands as well!"

From a comment on Huffington Post, by a Linda Graves · East Tennessee State University.


[-] 8 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

''The moral argument is that the central role of the United States in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict obliges Americans to understand it, if only for the fact that we are in a stronger position to change U.S. policy than those that fall victim to it. To this end there are a number of organizations in the U.S. that work on this issue, such as : http://endtheoccupation.org/ - which is a coalition of groups working to change U.S. policy toward Israel/Palestine & http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/ - is an organization of Jewish Americans critical of the occupation and organizing for a change in U.S. policy.'' From ...

fiat lux et fiat pax ...

[-] 7 points by flip (7101) 9 years ago

nicely done here - ''The moral argument is that the central role of the United States in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict obliges Americans to understand it, if only for the fact that we are in a stronger position to change U.S. policy than those that fall victim to it.

[-] 5 points by corsali (47) 9 years ago

Indeed this is "stunning", and very hopeful.

[-] 4 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 9 years ago
[-] 4 points by corsali (47) 8 years ago

As in a previous reply that you made. The journey that Phil Donahue took in his "radicalization" was similar to mine. It's a journey that many of us have or will be taking, and with that will come an indomitable spirit that will defeat even the partisans amongst us (on here) who try to steer this revolution to oblivion. Thanks for the links.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 8 years ago

Phil Donahue Rox !!! In a word .. SOLIDARITY to PD, you and all who sail with you ~*~

per aspera ad astra ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Israel Chooses Violence" by Haggai Mattar:

"From the repression in Sheikh Jarrah to the bombing of Gaza - the Israeli government has opted to escalate its brutality toward Palestinians." Please also note/share this site https://www.972mag.com/

et veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 4 months ago

"1 Year Ago Israel Killed Shireen Abu Akleh. We Won’t Forget Her, or the Nakba"! by Farid Abdel-Nour:

NB "Palestinian journalists and human rights workers are a pervasive threat to Israel’s myth of national innocence." Shireen was an American citizen, btw!

fiat justitia - ruat caelum!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

https://killinggaza.com/ A documentary film about life under siege by Max Blumenthal. Must Watch Doc.!

"In Killing Gaza, independent journalists Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen documented Israel’s 2014 war on Gaza.

"Yet this film is much more than a documentary about Palestinian resilience and suffering - it is a chilling visual document of war crimes committed by the Israeli military, featuring direct testimony and, evidence from the survivors"!

MULTUM in parvo!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

"Progressives Can’t Ignore Role of Christian Zionism in Colonization of Palestine" by Jonathan Brenneman & Aidan Orly:

et veritas vos liberabit!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

Consider "Another Israeli Spy Story ... When Will It End? by Philip Giraldi:

minima maxima sunt!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

Consider: How Israel's attacks on Syria, have become so normalized now - that not even a major attack on the Damascus airport can attract any attention or condemnation from the "Rules-Based International Order" loving Western/US/UK MSM! The "rules" permit & indeed even encourage - violence against any 'Disobedient States'!

Damascus International Airport will be out of use for some time after the Israeli attack - likely weeks and even possibly, many months. The planes are unable to move, after the runways were taken out after big strikes on each runway. All remaining flights have been redirected to Aleppo - at huge cost and air travel in Syria is paralysed.

fiat lux et fiat pax!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 1 year ago

NB: http://www.davidsheen.com/ & also see: http://davidsheen.com/bio.htm

And also note well, the $H!T Spewing RWNJ's reply below, of 7 paragraphs

(2,2,2,6,3,2 & 2) lines - which'll now soon be added to copiously no doubt!!!

Now please watch -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMlt9Si9Ti8 [66m]

et honi soit qui mal y pense!


PS: Yep $H!T Spewer has started adding crap to prior crap! Oy Vey! + See:


And does ANYONE here even have a clue wTf the $S-RWNJ is on about?!

MULTUM in parvo!

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 1 year ago

Answer: Russia gave tacit consent to Israel's bombings of Syria in self defense, in exchange for not antagonizing Russia (Russia has a military base in Syria very close to Israel which has a record of bombing any potentially unfriendly threats nearby: Syria's nuclear reactor, Iraq's nuclear reactor, USS Liberty, etc.) e.g. not voting at the U.N. to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine and demand Russia's withdrawal from Ukraine. The West also did the same (i.e. let it be) because al-Assad ruling much of Syria is allied with Russia.

Israel bombs Syria primarily because of Iran's supplying weapons and "martyrs" to Hezbollah in Lebanon.

When Israel feels threatened, it strikes anywhere and everywhere. It attacked both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. (I think that my Big Brother inspected the fallout shelter because he might have known what was happening around 1973 Yom Kippur when Egypt and Israel fought over Sinai Peninsula, each side allied with the U.S.S.R. and the U.S.A. respectively) and I think that most of us (excluding Iran, for now) have learnt our [painful] lessons from Israel.

Israel is under a lot of stress these days. Egypt, Türkiye, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran are all potential blow-ups nearby. Egypt, Türkiye, and Lebanon are suffering from high food prices due to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Türkiye wants to send the millions of Syrian refugees back home to Syria because Türkiye has ~74% recent inflation rate and running out of real credible money (in order to feed and house the refugees, despite Türkiye's having bought much grain Russia had stolen from eastern Ukraine; Türkiye has quite a reputation of being opportunistic such as [clandestinely] trading with Iran 《to get sanction-stranded-and-thus-cheapened crude oil <India benefits from Western-sanctions-cheapened Russian oil, too, by not upsetting Russia at the U.N., same as Red China> and Iran still wanted gold which is pretty invisible and untraceable, just done over the mutual border》while Iran was under sanctions so buying stolen grain isn't anything new). Türkiye may start a war in Syria to clear the space for the "returning-home" Syrian refugees to live (among other objectives).

Lebanon has been a [waste] basket case for years now. Hezbollah has been doing Allah's Reconstruction there with Iran's help. The 1960s' "Beirut streets paved with 'gold'" wasn't good enough so Allah wants streets paved with human blood instead.

Iran is acting up again as usual, after further dismantling IAEA monitoring devices watching Iran's nuclear weapons program. Iran-Israel is quite an energetic ready-for-incendiary-action pair for the Middle East.

You do know that the West by and large defers to Allah's Reconstruction plan, don't you ? I'm no exception although my deference might have come from different sources { i.e. my ignorance about Islam, Middle-Eastern customs, 《though somewhat more knowledgeable than my average American compatriots, I think -- partly because my Florida orange juice at our family's Sunday brunches had turned into Tang(R), then vanished altogether; even the brunches disappeared; my Dad was laid off; and we moved away from "Academic Acropolis" aka "White Harlem"; our home being broken into and ransacked was the reason why we scurried away because "White Harlem" was still a "Harlem"; WTF was going on ?! It had to do with Jews worldwide moving back to their ancestral centuries/millennia-of-years-ago homeland in the Middle East; Lebensraum conflicts ensued; there was surely better-life-supporting unoccupied/sparsely populated land around the world than that near-desert but that wouldn't be as meaningful to the Jews, would it ? we were thus dragged into the Meaningful Cyclone via global oil pricing》and Starfleet Academy Prime Directive of Non-interference without abridging my rights to free speech, religious freedom, free press.. as a U.S. citizen }.




[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

You're getting emotional again Daniel. Time for bed there. Hit the hay, hey ?

It's time for The Israeli 99% to kick The Right-Wing Likud Alliance out but ...

You have not got what it takes to read that article - I guarantee it. However ..

dum spiro, spero ...


[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Fair play to you as you're making me laugh now .. and late too, lol ! Do you know what, ''shatz'' means in German ?!! Thanx for the giggles - I don't really mean you any harm .. unlike that real nut job on The DNC / Likud Faction Team, namely - ZionDog !!! Gotta go now Dan but time to get serious here with ...

respice, adspice, prospice ...

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 9 years ago

I wash that off before working at the bomb factory

[-] 7 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 8 years ago

Dr. Mads Gilbert : ''People Are Questioning Israel'' :

Dr. Gilbert is "A Norwegian surgeon who worked in Gaza shares his experiences during the latest Israeli offensive on the besieged Strip."

God Jul og et God Nyttar Andy.

solidaritet ...

[-] 6 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 8 years ago

Gilbert is a fantastic human being. Happy new year to you too. A.

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 8 years ago

''The UN Security Council rejected on Tuesday a Palestinian resolution calling for peace with Israel within a year and an end to the "Israeli occupation" of Palestinian territories by late 2017.

''The resolution failed to achieve the 9-votes majority required to pass. Eight countries voted in favor of the motion - China, France, Russia, Argentina, Chad, Chile, Jordan, Luxembourg - two opposed - US and Australia - and five abstained - UK, Lithuania, Nigeria, Korea, Rwanda.

''US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power said in comments after the vote that: "Instead of giving voice to the aspirations of both Palestinians and Israelis, this text addresses only one side." from ...

Such are the blatant double standards of 'Middle Eastern Nation Building' and the Neocon geopolitics of hegemony in our times. Thanx sff & fyi : https://twitter.com/drgilbert og Solidaritet A.

fiat lux ...

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23740) 8 years ago

Happy New Year to all! So nice to see you back sff. All the best to you for 2015.

[-] 3 points by Renneye (3874) 8 years ago

And Happy New Year to you, too, beautifulworld!...and, to everyone here and all of humanity.

2015 and beyond is for The People!!!


[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

''Biggest Israeli Demolition in a Decade Leaves 100 Homeless'', by Charlotte Silver:

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 2 points by Viking (417) 7 years ago

I wish more people would wake up as to what an apartheid, terrorist state that Israel is.

[-] 2 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

The roots of that Affected Ignorance of Israel's Apartheid ... are bigger than just AIPAC & the like but are inside the darker parts of the psyche of many Americans ... who know, that their country too is rooted in the dispossession of other; older; native peoples. Meanwhile, RWNJ-Likudnik Nutjobyahoo rampages on

multum in parvo ...

[-] 2 points by struggleforfreedom80 (6584) 8 years ago


[-] 3 points by johannus (386) from Newburgh, NY 8 years ago

Your ICH link was not available in this country, but here it is below.

Dr Mads Gilbert: "People Are Questioning Israel"


Note: If that doesn't work, try Googling it.

People are going to church tonight and tomorrow to honor the "noble values" embodied in Christianity of "Peace on Earth and good will toward men." How can they ignore the atrocities that are being carried out on the Palestinians with our support?

[-] 5 points by ShadzSixtySix (1936) 8 years ago

"Peace on Earth and good will toward men." How can they ignore the atrocities that are being carried out on the Palestinians with our support?" Sad sigh, true that - all day and everyday & also consider :

Solidarity at the oppressed, repressed & suppressed everywhere - wherever they are. Either we are all free or none of us are. A good life for all is possible if we would all consider sharing & meditate on love.

fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...

[-] 6 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

Its incredible how well the media manages this stuff.

Jebreal lighting up MSNBC as she should: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9HCE0vUy1c

[-] 4 points by mayda (285) 8 years ago

''Hasbara Happenings: US Media Again Propagandises For Israel'', by CJ Werleman :

Solidarity at you & glad that you weren't 'half-crooked & half-cranky' ;-)

pax, amor et lux ...


[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 8 years ago

it's never the bombs fault

[-] 4 points by mayda (285) 8 years ago

Nope, just the people who drop them ! And Sell them !! And Make Them !!!

fiat lux ; fiat justitia ; fiat pax ...


[-] 5 points by grapes (5232) 9 years ago

"Why can't we all just get along?" - Rodney King.


[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23740) 8 years ago

"How the Iran Nuclear Deal Weakened AIPAC, Washington’s Most Powerful Interest Group"


"Vote allows Palestinian flag to be raised over UN"


[-] 5 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

'‘Israel Is A Terrorist State’', by Jonathan Cook:

Two powerful articles from people who know of what they speak from deep personal experience. Both these articles are really only for grown up adults; immature, reactionary brainfarters - need not bother.

fiat justitia ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23740) 7 years ago

"The Pathology of Israeli Fascism

What the Ahmed Manasrah video laid bare for the world to see is the inhumanity of Zionism, a Jewish supremacist ideology which necessarily places non-Jews in an inferior relation to Jews, which places less value on the life of the non-Jew. It is not simple hatred that motivated the disgusting comments from the onlookers, it is an ingrained, inter-generational sense of superiority bred of dehumanization of the Palestinian, and the Arab generally.

This fundamental fact is only very rarely discussed, but it lies at the heart of the Palestine conflict. By seeing Arabs as subhuman, many Israelis are able to justify, often on an unconscious level, all forms of brutality, violence, and oppression. It should be said here that there are some Israelis who fight against just such thinking (Gideon Levy is perhaps the most prominent and vocal opponent of such supremacist ideology), but sadly they are drowned out by the rabid barbarism of the Israeli right (and much of the center, it must be said)." - Eric Draitser

Not much more to say except that it does seem that more and more MSM are telling at least tidbits of the truth. For instance, on MSNBC recently, timeline maps showing the loss of land to Palestine appeared during a discussion.


The maps speak for themselves. And, that doesn't even show how in Gaza they are living in an open-air prison.

"At Thursday’s demonstration in Nazareth, which ended in clashes, Hana Daher, a 14-year-old student, said she was there because “my brothers and sisters are being killed. Israel is a terrorist state, but we will not be silenced. Change must come.”"

[-] 5 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

''By seeing Arabs as subhuman, many Israelis are able to justify, often on an unconscious level, all forms of brutality, violence, and oppression. It should be said here that there are some Israelis who fight against just such thinking...''

Eric Draitser says a lot there and elsewhere about the racial ideology behind Zionism,which is in itself a throwback to the nationalistic ideologies that manifested at the breakdown of both the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires. With reference to Gideon Levy, please also further try to consider:

''Politicians promised that everything would be fine, rabbis incited, settlers torched, the whole world is against us, just leave us alone. Then out of the blue those knife-wielding youngsters with murder in their eyes descended upon us. The quiet dissolved, security fizzled, businesses collapsed, dreams of jeep tours and quick vacations became uncertain.

''The government blames the Islamic State and the left blames the lack of “peace talks.” Experts on Arab affairs — the southern branch of the Shin Bet security service and Military Intelligence — say it’s because of “incitement.” The wise sages of security issues say, as is their wont, that this time the other side must be hit hard. Everyone agrees that the Arabs are to blame because they were born to kill. Through this stupefying haze all connection to reality has been lost.

''In the meantime, Jerusalem has become the capital of apartheid. No other city so discriminates and dispossesses or is so violent. Gun-toting Mayor Nir Barkat, who’s largely responsible for the discrimination and dispossession in his city, incites against a third of its population — an unbelievable phenomenon in its own right.

''And you thought 300,000 people would acquiesce? That they’d watch settlers invade their homes as city hall denied them minimal services amid maximal property taxes? That they’d look on while the occupier arbitrarily denied them residence status, as if they were migrants in their own city?

''That they would put up with Jewish gangs beating them up in full view of policemen and forgive? That a young man growing up in this reality — with his neighborhood a Soweto — would spend his life washing dishes and building homes for Jews with no chance of escaping his ghetto?

''Did you really think right-wing provocations on the Temple Mount would pass quietly? That the burning of the Dawabsheh family would pass with no response — and even more so the defense minister’s arrogant claims that Israel knew who the perpetrators were but wouldn’t arrest them?

''That their children would be burned helplessly with Israel not punishing anyone and they’d remain silent? That the response to all this would be more of the same: We’ll demolish, detain, dispossess, oppress, torture and kill more than ever — and (Jewish) Zion will be redeemed? Did anyone really believe that?''

Like you say: ''The maps speak for themselves'' and even very occasionally make it to MSM viewers ...

fiat lux ...

[-] 5 points by beautifulworld (23740) 7 years ago

Human Rights Watch World Report 2014: Israel and Palestine:


"The Israeli leader’s ludicrous lie about the Holocaust comes as no surprise"


Dahlia Scheindlin explains how NuttyBoy uses lies to incite the Palestinians and how he controls what is considered "Israeli." Sad. We're left wondering how much lower Netanyahu can go.

[-] 4 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

IF a Two State Solution is to be tenable for those who still believe in its possibility, then we really need to listen to Prof. Norman Finkelstein (who speaks with utter clarity here in debate) & then honestly ask:

ad iudicium ...

[-] 4 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

Nutjobyahoo: “We Will Forever Live By The Sword” (&) Indefinitely Control All Palestinian Territory''

Thanx for your powerful links and as Dahlia Scheindlin says: ''A political consultant once related how he lunched with Benjamin Netanyahu, who ordered a hamburger with fries. He was not supposed to be eating such foods – doctor’s orders. As they were finishing up, Bibi’s wife, Sarah, came in, saw the evidence and began to see red. Netanyahu, all righteous indignation - looked her straight in the eye and said he had eaten no such hamburger. The storyteller said he was convinced at that moment that Netanyahu himself believed it.

''If apocryphal, it is definitely in character. Netanyahu regularly embraces bad ideas or even lies so totally that he convinces himself of their rightness.''

How much lower can Nuttyboy go? A whole lot more - and drag a whole bunch of people down with him!

spero meliora ...

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (23740) 7 years ago

Historical maps of Palestine:


Never forget and never stop fighting for the freedom of the Palestinian people.

[-] 5 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

''An Open Letter to President Obama'', by Miko Peled (auth.''The General's Son''):

multum in parvo ...

[-] 5 points by Viking (417) 7 years ago

Mr Peled's open letter was very thought provoking. Thank You.

[-] 4 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

''Miko Peled is an Israeli writer and activist. His grandfather was one of the founding fathers of the State of Israel. His father Matti Peled was an officer in the war of 1948 and served as a general in the war of 1967, when Israel conquered The West Bank, Gaza, Golan Heights and Sinai.

''Following the 1967 war, Matti Peled resigned and became a peace activist. In 19997, Miko's niece was killed by a syicide bomber in Jerusalem. This tragedy propelled Peled onto a journey of discovery.

''It pushed him to re-examine many of the beliefs he had grown up with and transformed him into a courageous and visionary activist in the struggle for human rights and a lasting peace.'' from ..

fiat lux; fiat justitia; fiat pax ...

[-] 4 points by Viking (417) 7 years ago

I admire people who like Mr Peled, stand up for what they believe in. The fact that he and his Dad were in the IDF, and he now speaks out against Israeli's policies proves that it is never to late to redeem oneself.

This past Sunday, I had the distinct pleasure and honor of listening to a courageous, young lawyer (Radhika Sainath) who is with Palestinian Legal. In this link she is being interviewed after having been arrested and deported from Bahrain, while being an observer there.


Good links, Thanks.

[-] 4 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

Miko Peled and people like Radhika Sainath speak from and to what is best and beautiful in us humans. Sadly the following videos, report and article by an excellent Palestinian journalist shows us the flipside:

Humans are humans and all things human, both good and bad, is latent in us all. No one group can ever claim in any way, shape or form - to be superior ipso facto than any other group. A,B,AB & O = Human!

shalom aleichem; salam alaikum; pax vobis

[-] 4 points by Viking (417) 7 years ago

I do realize that "both good and bad, is latent in us all." I also understand that once you can successfully dehumanize your opponent, people are then readily capable of purveying unimaginable horror onto others.

Today, unfortunately we have leaders who appeal to the most base instincts in human beings, while simultaneously promoting a xenophobic us against them policy. Not coincidentally that is exactly what they need to promote their hegemonic pursuits. Having so many good people who recognize this and implore us to bring out the best in human nature is very heartening to me, and it should be to all of us.

Kudos to Ms Sainath and Mr Peled. We need more people like them in the World.

"You never know a man until you understand things from his point of view, until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." ....Lee Harper from her book, To Kill A Mockingbird

[-] 3 points by ImNotMe (1488) 7 years ago

' * ' = ''TWINKLE'' and in compliment .. tho' through a glass mirror darkly - please also do try to consider:

A ''Special Report: Stunned by falling poll numbers, Hillary Clinton is hoping that Democrats will rally to her neocon-oriented foreign policy and break with Bernie Sanders as insufficiently devoted to Israel. But will that hawkish strategy work this time, asks Robert Parry.''

Folk will battle tooth and nail to keep that Neon War Witch from the Democratic PotUS nomination and I've got faith, hope & charity for Bernie & here's why https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4AQ2O9EE8

et spero meliora ...

[-] 3 points by Viking (417) 7 years ago

What's really chilling in this country is the movement to shut down free speech, especially on college campuses, if it is critical of Israeli policy.

The Palestinian Exception to Free Speech: A Movement Under Attack in The US

"A growing movement for Palestinian rights, particularly active on US college campuses, is challenging Israel's abuses and US complicity.

In response, Israel advocacy groups are intensifying their efforts to stifle Palestinian advocacy."


"Palestinian Legal responded to nearly 300 incidents of censorship or other suppression of Palestinian advocacy between January 2014 and June 2015.

85% of these incidents targeted students and scholars on more than 65 US college campuses."

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23740) 7 years ago

This forum isn't much different, is it? Activism is harder and harder in a world controlled by oligarchs, but we forge on!

I truly believe that until we can free the Palestinians, none of us are free.

Thanks for all that you do. Solidarity!!!

[-] 3 points by Viking (417) 7 years ago

Thank You, my gratitude to you too for all that you do, bw. I've given a lot of thought to one of your earlier posts when you brought up the word "ethos" and our necessity to change our's in pursuit of a more sustainable and better World. I totally agree especially when you consider how superfluous our World has become with consumerism.

As far as I can see, "activism" wears many hats, and the cumulative effect of our resistance cannot be underestimated. Just a reminder, not that you need it but; People resisting the corrupt status quo whether it was orally, with a pen, a keyboard, or in the streets has made a huge difference .... You correctly and succinctly wrote about OWS and how it has changed the lexicon in this country. Look how far the the Fight For $15 has come because of our efforts.. I'm not naive in not knowing that there were many reasons why Shell pulled their drilling rig out of the Arctic, but you will never convince me that the negative publicity, and the cold sweat that they broke into was not due to activists throughout the country. And THAT played a major part in Shell's decision. And then we have people abandoning the neocon base especially concerning Israel, the Middle East and the perpetual war we are in. That did not happen in a vacuum, rather that change has slowly come about from people who resisted the corrupt status quo, and who were able to look at the inhumanity of our foreign policy. People's consciences... their sense of right and wrong are being jarred.

On another note, to my surprise, I recently had my second letter to the editor in a local paper. It was in response to a neocon politician, and it was very critical of our foreign policy, and our corrupt relationship with Israel. I do plan to put that up here, but I will leave out the identifying names.

[-] 4 points by beautifulworld (23740) 7 years ago

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

We're somewhere in stages 3 and 4, lol. Keep up the good work and never ever give up!

And, yes, definitely post what you write here!

[-] 2 points by MattHolck0 (3867) 9 years ago

On Palestine; didn't something like this happen to the Brits in India too ?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23740) 2 years ago

Rallies for Palestine across Europe, the U.S. and the world.



The myth that one is antisemitic for standing up for Palestinians is beginning to unravel.

More and more people are seeing the open air prison for what it is, colonial oppression in an apartheid state. Horrific, immoral and a scourge on humanity!

Free Palestine! Free Gaza! End Israeli Apartheid!

[-] 1 points by ImNotMe (1488) 2 years ago

Consider "The Treacherous Falsification of Palestine-Israel History"! by Arian Taher:

respice; adspice; prospice ...

[-] 0 points by grapes (5232) 2 years ago

Я free Amurica !

Dutchland, Dutchland, unter alles, unter alles in der Welt. Trumperian cyclepath in the rain ? Is it coming soon ? Wall, wall, wall, wall, wall or skin, skin, skin, skin, skin ( border patrolling is an operation of a country's immune system so a lymphatic system of quick access paths near the border and detention centers works.) Catherine the Great formed the League of Armed Neutrality.

》Schlagen wir des Volkes Feind《 Free at last ! Free at last ! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last ! Let all the peoples learn to live with what Red China would call "cultural differences" in "domestic affairs:" "e-duc-ate" with Afghani- and Israeli-style education, using bombs. My Mom used butt-spanking but she told me that she only spanked the heavily fat-padded tush with a bare hand and never with a slipper held in a hand ( while the other hand detains the recipient of the spanking ) as some of our neighbors did ( e.g. other children were often spanked with a slipper held by their mothers; my neighborhood-boy playmate's mother would hold a 雞毛掃 in reverse to use the cane handle of that rooster-tail-feather duster to whip at him.) She was so merciful !? Being fat positive has its privileges at home because a bony ass doesn't protect, and at school because a fat hand being whacked by a plastic ruler wielded by the teacher hurts less.

Hong Kong also used to do this to a smaller degree ( with not as many powerful bombs for sure but I remember an extremely long red banner and detonation in the soccer/football field by bomb-disposal expert to disarm and explode bombs ) when I was a child there in 1967. I needed that uplifting inspiration from NASA presenting the Apollo project plan in a briefing in Hong Kong and achieving it later on. I got hold of and played with the Faber-Castell slide rule my Big Brother had bought from his former classmate ( who also left other reading materials besides the white plastic strip with many mathematical formulas printed upon it.) I could understand that the slide rule had come from an "advanced civilization," perhaps sufficient to compute for lunar missions. I remember being intrigued [in my later life] by the trigonometric formulas there on the white plastic strip and why the slide rule computations such as multiplication, unit ( viz. by borrowing group-theory nomenclature, an einheit such as 1 = 1 km divided by 1000 m = 1000 m divided by 1 km is to be manipulated in exactly the same way as any "multiplicative" factor; thus, 18000 years × 365.2422 days/year × 3⅓ m/day × 1 km/1000 m = 21914.532 km was the first-formed diameter of the Earth, based upon Pangu's growth rate until God stopped him after measuring with a compass vs. Earth's modern equatorial diameter of 12756 km from NASA so Earth has shed much of its girth; how did Earth lose so much of its girth ? perhaps by its collision with the hypothetical planet Theia to make the Moon of 3476.28 km equatorial diameter and Mercury of 4880 km mean diameter; the sum of the three diameters is 12756 km + 3476.28 km + 4880 km = 21112 km; fairly close to but still smaller than the figure of 21924.532 km derived from Pangu's growth rate from 「天日高一丈,地日厚一丈,盤古亦長一丈,如此萬八千年,然後天地開闢。」; Pangu's story might support the hypothesis that the proto-Earth was cleaved by Theia into these three pieces: Earth with its molten mantle, tectonic movements, and Moon-size solid mono-crystalline core, Moon, and Mercury; we have probably sprouted from an ancient cosmic disaster zone ) conversions, and division worked.

Closely related to Euler's formula is the Pangu cosmos-making ( God knows trigonometry from using the compass ) formula for creating Yin and Yang from the geometric product: ab = a•b + a^b where a, b are vectors ( in Clifford Algebra or Geometric Algebra ) or alternatively mathematical functions having been pigeonholed into usually finite number of orthogonal dimensions ( such as those of the trigonometric-harmonic-function-space used in Fourier analysis.) a•b=b•a is the inner or dot product and a^b=-b^a is the outer or wedge product of a and b. Any vector ( which is a mathematical function defined upon the vector's usually finite number of dimensional indices as the function's domain ) or mathematical function can be expressed as the sum of these two parts: a commutative and an anti-commutative part.

[-] 1 points by questioning (21) 9 years ago

Violence in the middle east and around the world?

What is to be done?

Give everyone a gun ammunition and a few missiles?

I just don't see that as helping.

But isn't that what is being done in perpetuity?

Feeding violence.

Not ending it.

Why do we get our most thoughtful commentary from comedy central? Stephen Colbert looks at the Sarah Palin Channel Scroll down past the sarah story and Jon shares some thoughts on arming for peace.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 9 years ago

realize hamas just doesn't care about the people. this is far from mainstream news and will give you an idea of what is really going on in gaza. Vice News Crime & Punishment in the Gaza Strip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWJFC98jPrQ

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

Enjoy Vice while it lasts. But I guess like some here like to say "Hey, if Murdoch wants to cut me a check, I'll take it!


[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 9 years ago

yawn what is your point. shane smith runs vice, are you saying he is a selling out on his principals? i call bullshit.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

I'm saying that he may have gotten to the point where his principles are simply drowned out in the grand scope of the operation.

If you want to be the CNN or MTV, its going to happen eventually. And personally, selling to Murdoch was probably the last thing anyone expected from within the group.


[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 9 years ago

have you ever even watched an interview with shane? do you have any idea how important vice is in journalism today? we are talking about someone who is legit. people who are legit don't just roll over on their values for money. they could give two shits. money is great and all but it is not the main driver for everyone. some people care about the truth above any narrative and helping, caring, and loving cause it is right and just.


[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Re. ''baiting ... through responses to others (a favorite troll technique) (and not a little bit cowardly)'', please do see and consider :

ad iudicium ...


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Your hypocrisy was the point snooz ! But surprise, surprise - you deign not to get it lol, !! That other Likudnik shill, Glen fkn Beck is far closer to your ex-Libertarian positions then he could ever be to me btw, lol !!! Can't speak more - I'm in a rush now but our business if far from over, so L8r allig8r ;-) & fyi :

ad iudicium ...

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

Ironic how the person who slams libertarians and sees them under every bed is actually a former one, who actually was involved when the Koch brothers ran it!

He who posts things about Libertarians and the Kochs all day everyday used to be the very type he is complaining and whining about all day, every day, year after year, for decades on end.

What a self loathing slug. lol.


[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Did you just 'Remove'' my reply snooz ?!!!

fiat lux ...

[-] 4 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

Because thats what Nazis do.

Look at that, one day later here comes all the anti-semetism rhetoric from the three old goats.

How very predictable.



[-] 7 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

shooz said 5 minutes ago at July 28, 2014, 4:29 p.m. EST (delete)

There you go with the anti Semites again trashy.

Why don't you just start posting stuff from David Duke, or links to stormfront?




DISGUSTING ! & for some basic info :

multum in parvo ...




[-] 5 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

Theres that loyalty coming out, like a fuse waiting to be lit.. Religion, what a waste of the human mind.


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

How are you replying to a ''removed'' comment ?!!! Seems to me that you can still see it, right ?!!

So it now appears that you have still got your 'mod privileges' here - right ?! Hmmmmmmmm ~(~

fiat lux ...




[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

You do get that you the harbinger of your own sad demise, right ?!!! These words you use eg. ''swallow your own tongue'' - are NOT without 'karmic echoes' !! I feel sorry for you - you loveless, lonely wanker !

nosce te ipsum ...


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Me ''sick s-o-b'' ?! So, how ?!! Naughty Puppy, YOU say bad words !!! Lookey here now :

verum ex absurdo ...


[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

So, still talking shit, I see ! Geddit x 3 ?!!

Please do try to keep 'IT' up ... DiKwad !!!

veritas vos liberabit ...



[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Re. ''a blatant anti-Semite'' - wtf are you talking about and is that all you have left ?!!!

You actually don't know your arse from your mouth - ergo you're talking shit - again !!

Get your your shit together DiKwad .. because I'll be back for the whole DNC / Likud Faction soon enough - individually and collectively .. so now just simmer and stew, why don't you ?!

minima maxima sunt ...


[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Hush now DiKwad .. I'm talking with your handler !!

temet nosce ...


[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

You seem obsessed with your 'points' !!! Why's that ?!! Nearly 35k not enough for you ?! Greedy much ?

Also fyi : http://mondoweiss.net/ ; http://jfjfp.com/ ; http://www.nkusa.org/ ; http://mikopeled.com/ etc.

ave et vale ...



[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Your reactionary, conservative ass is ever more exposed !!! Your thick head is very proudly in the sand it seems !! As that leaves your crinkly old ass in the air .. it would be rude for me not to kick it, I do think !

ne quid nimis ...



[-] 6 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

I have to go and eat etc. now but things just got very bizarre & interesting around these parts !!! You li'l DNC / Likud half-wits have shown your hand and shot yourselves in the feet - many, many times over !! What a bunch of Idiots and to hell with The Bigger Idiots who employed you !

e tenebris, lux ?



[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Cite the links and state the authors' names .. evidence your charges - IF you have the balls ?!

toast ...


[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

I like munching toast - especially with ''huckleberry marmalade'' ! You've lost the plot !!

Just like Nutty-Yahoo and Likud have and like them - you are self-exposed right now !!!

munch, munch, munch ...



[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

You ain't younger than 40, right ?! We sure can tell how old you are Dave !!

Urgently Google the very latest Gallup poll re. 'Israel Popularity' &, read it !!!

multum in parvo ...

EDIT # 1 :

fiat lux ...

EDIT # 2 :

ad iudicium ...


[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

There was a ''Pew Research Poll' - along the same lines of ''The Gallup Poll''.

You are NOT absorbing the future demographic implications of this it seems.

Re. your Paul Bogdanor fixations, please remind yourself of a previous reply :

tempus mutantur et nos mutamur in illis ...


fiat lux ...




[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 9 years ago

they do important work. sometimes liberals put on blinders just like conservatives. it is important to see the big picture.





[-] 5 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

So, how much more ''time, practice and growth'' would you like Israel to have ? Also fyi :

multum in parvo ...


[-] 7 points by beautifulworld (23740) 9 years ago

End the blockade of Gaza now!

Free the Palestinians!

Sorry, but the only people occupying another people are the Israelis. We're done with imperialism, colonization and apartheid in the 21st century. Get with the program!

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

From a whole week BEFORE the latest War On Gaza and further to my more substantive comment on this thread, please try to calmly consider - from OUTSIDE The Corporate Media Echo Chamber Bubble :

I could go on at greater length than my previous comment on this thread but I'm tired and have things to do. I looked at your thread and if I went there now (or even in the future) - it would turn into a punch up in very short order. Also I do not accept any 'six of one and half a dozen of the other' analogies. Read sff's short forum-post again perhaps & maybe even watch John Pilger's film via the link that he has provided.

Have The Right Wing Likudnik Coalitions ruling Israel this last 2 or more decades been ''in pursuit of peace and health and prosperity for ALL'' ? Have you heard of : Bar Giora ; Hashomer ; The Haganah ; The Palmach ; The Lehi Underground / The Stern Gang, DKAt ? What was their modus operandi and raison d'etre & what possible parallels may they have to Hamas for Gazans now ? Did you know that Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin were Wanted Terrorists in British Mandate Palestine ? Do you remember Yitzhak Rabin and what happened to him ? Do you get just how right-wing Nutty-Yahu is ?

Furthermore, what will it be going forward ? One Person ; One Vote ; One State between The River and The Sea OR 2 States @ The 1967 borders (see sff's embedded map link) - OR just more of the same ?

Where do you get your information from DKAt ? Have you opened ANY of links .. just on this thread if nowhere else ? It's NOT a specious question of ''only guilty party'' is it ? It's a question of who is most responsible & who is more 'powerful' & who really has the gift of peace to give to this situation, right ? So just how come 'Progressives' - in the USA can end up supporting Nutty-Yahoo so readily ? For an answer try to perhaps reflect upon :

fiat justitia ruat caelum ...


[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

Right. Drunk again, huh ?

in vino veritas ?


[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

From reading your typo / misspelling of ''boring''. Bed time for me now ! If you can't be bothered to read or reply with grace, whyTF should I bother ?!! I'm better off with ZionDog I think because at least I know where I stand with him, right ?!!!

vale ...


[-] 4 points by grapes (5232) 9 years ago

It may just be cultural dissonance. shadz66 seems to be from a non-U.S. country so Americanisms may not get across well and they may irritate.


[-] 3 points by grapes (5232) 9 years ago

Some parts of our universe do not and need not conform to logic on a symbolic level so "things happen." We complain about spending a few billion dollars for the illegal immigration crisis but we had lost far more in our own deliberate shutdown of the federal government.


[-] 2 points by grapes (5232) 9 years ago

Illogic and irrationality are emerging phenomena. Out of numerological perfection comes irrationality. Quantity has its unique quality. This is true of immigrants, Tea Partiers, or transistor, and more.


[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 9 years ago

According to the theory of evolution, we are ALL the latest models of evolutionary success in our survival skills. Look at the rocket-takeoff chart of human population vs. time. Human great quantity is extremely recent. There is just NO time for most of us to change our behaviors under the control of the only part of us that has the required speed, our rational self in our prefrontal cortex.

The best survival skills up to recent decades is to shoot now and ask questions later (if ever). We are all a tiny little thin bit of rationality plugging up a volcano of emotions and extremely successful survival skills. When weapons shoot at the speed of light, pre-emptive strike means that we must take out all potentially hostile weapons before they become so - sad indeed but true.

[-] 2 points by eklutna (101) 9 years ago

What a spineless and flippant response..


[-] 3 points by eklutna (101) 9 years ago

Yes REALLY!!...your statement was indeed 'spineless and flippant.' To put the oppressor and the long time oppressed on the same plane here is like putting the Nazis and the victims of their barbarism on equal footing.

Your thinking is in line with the alike neocons who will have us in servitude to the corrupt elite too...Edit; Unless we resist.


[-] 4 points by eklutna (101) 9 years ago

Your inability to tell the difference between a long time, powerful brutal oppressor who has taken control of much of our foreign policy decisions through big dollars....and a near helpless people, who have suffered greatly under that oppression is not surprising to me.



[-] 8 points by trashyharry (3084) from Waterville, NY 9 years ago

It would be more accurate to say that Israel has a Brutal Fascist Government which maintains itself through perpetual war.Although Zionism has developed partly from Fascist root movements,the government could be changed.The government of Israel could be changed even now,although a high level of super right wing nutcase conformity has been achieved in the population.Even though Israeli the Israeli business community is addicted to the easy conditions provided by Ziofascist politicians.Fascism has a way of coming on strong and then losing steam really fast.There is nothing Israelis who are alive now can do about wrongheaded or wrongful things done by people who passed away decades ago-except make everything worse by not making Israel into a secular,modern country and embracing democracy.The Israelis have a long way to go in those areas,but even in Israel,another world is possible.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

An apology is in order, I believe if indeed your genuine feelings were actually hurt by my reading ''boing'' as ''boring'' and my responding as I did with a quick, glib insult ... so I hope that you're ok and no hard feelings were intended tho' I'm not sure how 'boing' was any kind of response to what I said above.

You were not really obliged to instantly respond to my maybe over-complicated link with the You-Tube links of Abby Martin, Max Blumenthal, Eran Efrati et al, as after all, this forum is NOT a chat-room, so consider that taking your time in responding or not responding at all, were and are - viable options.

I read your link to me ( https://occupywallst.org/forum/on-two-wrongs-do-not-make-a-right/ ) in your reply to the Chris Hedges item linked to you { http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/07/24/palestinians-right-self-defense } and then I read your 'boing / boring' response and frankly it made me rather cross.

Reading your linked forum-post and thread again now, I'm none the wiser ; decidedly nonplussed but not as annoyed as before. I'd encourage readers to read your post and thread to see if they can make better sense of it than I can.

I responded to your initial comment on this thread but ''no honest response anyway'' - does not apply to me I can assure you - despite the appearance of what you say above.

It appears that you don't actually open links, never mind comment on them but no matter ... as I will still nevertheless take the opportunity to append and recommend :

Re. your other 'reply to self' below, maybe you'd consider reminding me of just what I may have forgotten about ''the other part of the guilty equation''.

I'd contend of course that it is not an ''equation'' at all .. as it is actually an 'inequality' ... and thereby lays the core point of contention perhaps.

verb. sat. sap. ...

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

forget the apology - as you and BW and apparently many more can not understand why you should apologize. As apparently you feel it is right and good for Hamas to fire off missiles into Israel. As what - Israeli citizens are not people? Are all responsible for the actions of their government and military? What? And apparently you feel that Hamas is just a GR8 organization that moves ( hides ) among innocent civilians ( human shields ) so that they can provoke a military response that will kill hundreds of those civilians they move ( hide ) among.

Where is your outrage at all of those who are funneling arms to feed Hamas and their goading of military retribution which ends up killing the innocent that Hamas hides behind?

Funny that so many expensive arms are so readily available to Hamas in ever increasing numbers. One must wonder who their benefactors (?) are and what their purpose is as it certainly is not peace. Unless do you suppose that they belive in the principal of peace through destruction? It seems that you and BW believe this - in this instance - as long as the destruction is visited upon Israel.

I am done talking with you or anyone else on this subject as it is very apparent that you can not look at the whole situation rationally.




[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

You can be very excellent at being specious. And your apparent insanity of excusing the actions of Hamas in the whole Gaza tragedy is just amazing.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

You should really stop making shit up & as per ''I am done talking with you or anyone else on this subject'' - have an ounce of self-respect ffs !!! I'm not happy that my replies were removed !! Fair ?!

I really am in a rush now but thanx for showing your true colours. I won't forget our exchange here.

et nosce te ipsum ...

Btw, what were you relying to again ? Hmmm.

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

I am who I am as I always have been and so shall always be - Myself.

My true colors? You mean being honest and fair? Those are the colors I always wear.

You on the other hand - really show nothing of yourself just provide links to others thoughts. Do you any thinking of your own?

On Gaza and the whole tragedy suffered by the innocent civilians on both sides - you are not able to see the atrocities of BOTH sides that keep this tragedy alive.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

''Boing'' - but please do look and consider just what happened when I wrote you a longer response here :

''Boing'' !!! I happen to subscribe to the views expressed in - 'my links' !! Did you read my own thinking in my main comment on this thread & please provide links to - ''the atrocities'' suffered by Israel during this War Of Nutty-Yahoo's Choice !! Are you just another a PEP {'Progressive Except Palestine'} here too ?!

fiat lux ...

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Yeah yeah - save it - you kinda showed some of your true colors when you put down the outrage voiced about the billions of dollars spent on making the playing fields for the world cup rather than them being used to improve life/living conditions/society for the masses.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

My ''true colours'' are Red, Black, Indigo and Green

Now go see IF, you can work out what I may mean.

You have clearly failed to provide any links ..

To show exactly what you or I really thinks ..

Others can decide what is hidden and what is seen.

vale ...

[-] -2 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Red, Black, Indigo, Or Green www.comicvine.com/profile/fortanono/blog/red-black-indigo-or-green/...

Deadpool: The Gauntlet #8. Deadpool's trip with Shiklah, Dracula's fiancée, continues. Guess what? There's plenty of adventure, laughs, and hilarity to be found inside.

[-] 4 points by shadz66 (19985) 9 years ago

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." - Dalai Lama XIV

I have no idea at all - what your link had to do with anything and I am unimpressed at your obfuscations, distractions and conniptions - as evidenced on just this thread alone. So how did you become a 'PEP' ?

parva leves capiunt animas ...

[-] 0 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

DKA, no one is excusing using violence. The underlying point is "What do YOU- yes YOU (or anyone else who thinks like this) expect?

Really, what do you expect? You really want people who were trampled over, had a country and government declared and created literally right on top of them, to send in diplomats with their briefcases to come to some meeting of the minds?

When they were setting this up back when, the Israelis knew damn well this is what was going to happen. They simply didn't care. So why do you expect the ones that got ran over to act more responsibly?

This is classic American thinking, that when you poke the bear constantly, dictate everything, basically treat people as subhuman, when they finally lash back, the US gov declare "Ah Hah!! I knew you were a violent danger to the world!!"

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Your thinking (?) is so flawed. Your non-insight into the Palestinian people is the same as can be applied to the Israelite's. From what ever direction you would like one to look at Palestine the same can be seen looking at Israel.

And who feeds the conflict ( from outside of the area = neighboring states ) to keep it going? You do not speak of them.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

For about the 10th time now, when someone comes in and creates a country and installs a government over the top of the people already there, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

I see revolution at that point as unavoidable. Not all people are as soft as Americans.

You think after its all done, installed and dictated, that people should sit at a table and discuss it? You can't really put them both on each side. This is equivelant to all the people telling Occupy to shut up, if they have a problem then get involved in teh political process and go the route of the establishment.

"Keep the conflict going"... You mean people still pissed that the Israelis did it?

Why do you expect such a weak response from a very strong people?


[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

For the sake of peace ( mind you ) - I suggested that we give them Texass as a donation to be their new state - could be the best thing to happen to Texass - Hey?

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

Well luckily while the amount of Jewish people polled that thinks "40 percent believe that the land that is now Israel was “given to the Jewish people by God,” is steadily declining, there is still a lot of work to be done in terms of pragmatic solutions.

Until the religious nonsense is separated from this land battle, what chance of a peaceful solution is there when one side has total control and the wealth of the world behind it, and the other side has nothing but what it can get its hands on?


The fact that 40% of the Jewish people polled think this land was a gift from god to them is absolutely terrifying to me, thats almost half.

I've heard hard core Christians say that the choosen people used to be in Israel, but now they are here in America. Absolutely incredible.


[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

I won't speak to hchc's presence here - I will say that when it comes to Israel and Palestine ? some people are incapable of rational thought - as is well demonstrated here on this forum by the rabid attacks on all things Israeli and the boundless excuses given in defense of the actions of Hamas.

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

No one thinks its right as in acceptable if dealing within a vacuum, the problem is that when one group of people come in and establish this, that and the other thing, with absolutely no respect for the people already there, would you expect and/or want them to just roll over?

Or would you expect them to fight back with all means necessary?

This is why its clear that the Israeli leaders are either the dumbest group of people on the planet (likely not) or the most arrogant on the planet (more likely).

Honestly, what were they expecting? To trample the most basic rights of people, then invite them to a meeting to discuss it rationally afterwards?

Come on man....

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Your stinking is flawed just like Shadz and BW's - the control and oppression is so bad by the Israeli government/military that nothing good can come or go to or from Gaza? That picture is unbelievable - if the blockade and control over Gaza was so effective so complete - tell me then - how then do tons of arms get into Gaza - arms that do not go out to the general population as a means of defense - but instead goes to Hamas who then uses those arms to provoke a counter attack from Israel.

Are you telling me that good humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza is impossible to get in? Are you telling me that humanitarian aid is too hideously expensive? So arms must be sent instead?

You are most definitely saying that you prefer violence over peaceful negotiations. Or you would be pissed off at the providers of the non-defensive weapons to Gaza.

[-] 3 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

FYI no one saying violence is better than peace. But what do people expect when this happens?

When people started arriving at the shores of the Americas it was very easy to call the natives "savages". But when looking at it, would you not expect them to use all means necessary to not be ruled by someone else?

Look where bargaining got them. A few dinky pieces of land that are still not really their own anyways. In terms of negotiation, that would be deemed an absolute failure.

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

How do arms get into the hands of rebels?

Hmmm.... Lets take a quick glimpse of history and governments to dissect this... tick toc tick toc... How do arms get into the hands of rebels, hmmmm.... thats a tough one.


[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

Once again, you are expecting something different than what history shows us to be a very consistent and predictable pattern?

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

What? Are you saying that people can not get past the insanity of repeating past insanities? That nothing can be learned from history? That instead of perpetually repeating mistakes that humanity could instead go in a different direction - you are saying that humanity can't learn and grow?

Are you suggesting that we all bow down to a history of enslavement and abuse of the masses by the few and so we should all just roll over and play dead?

[-] 2 points by turbocharger (1756) 9 years ago

I'm suggesting that when you are wondering how rebels get their hands onto weapons, or how people react when others start creating countries, you seem to think that this situation with Israel is somehow unique.

[-] -3 points by DKAtoday (33802) from Coon Rapids, MN 9 years ago

Take your specious crap & shove it - Hey?