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Forum Post: I still don't understand what the goal is.

Posted 2 years ago on Dec. 5, 2011, 2:16 p.m. EST by unoccupywallstreet (81)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I've been on this site a little bit now, and I can't find one person or post that has said what the OWS movement hopes to accomplish. All I see are vague goals like ending corruption by the one percenters. Without having a definite and definiable goal, how can you hope to accomplish anything significant?

Instead what I see are rallys and protests that do more to disrupt the lives of the hard working ninety nine percent that you guys claim to be working for. The rich elite have the means and resources to make it through things like losing a day of work. Can the same be said for the people working for them?

I also see a lot of people talking about wanting the government to step in and end the corruption of the rich one percenters. But I also see the same people talking about the influence the one percenters have on the government. So what you guys want is for the goverment to end the corruption that it's benefitting from? This seems like a pretty illogical demand to me.

What we should be focusing on, is getting rid of the politicians who allow the corruption to take place. Get rid of the ones who take bribes and look the other way. You can call up any politician who represents where you live at anytime. You can make contact with your senator. They might not get back to you right away, but keep at it. Everything that get's voted on is public record. Take a look at what the people you are voting for, actually vote on.

Political accountability is the real problem and what we need to fix to take a step in the right direction. Most people don't break laws unless they think they can get away with it. Knowing that people actually are following all of their political moves will make politicians behave differently.

45 Comments

45 Comments


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[-] 4 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

I think this protest should focus on ending government corruption by protesting for a constitutional amendment to over-turn Citizens United. Then enact campaign finance reform. Perhaps so far as 100% financed elections.

Yes, this thing is all over the place. Thats what happens when a bunch of anarchists are leading a protest. This protest needs to lose the anarchists (and their Serbian Revolution fighter friends), lose the direct democracy absurdity, get some real leadership and an effective organizational structure.

[-] 2 points by buik2 (66) 2 years ago

ows hopes to accomplish social awareness of inequality, imo. thats the best way to facilitate change, not electing some dumbass to office real quick or some shit.

thats the difference between us and the tea party.

we realize that it takes years. and it has started. most significant social change takes years and years, and is an endless struggle with significant strides being made every decade or so.

thats my opinion, anyway. i dont know the official line, but it doesnt matter because i am correct : )

[-] 1 points by unoccupywallstreet (81) 2 years ago

Yes, I guess that would work better than electing some dumbass to office real quick, or even some shit. But I never said anything close to that.

Social awareness of inequlity lends itself to people getting something for nothing, and it's a waste. Political change is where it's at. And yes, it will take years.

[-] 1 points by buik2 (66) 2 years ago

thats stupid, my dear friend, but i will tell you the truth now: the only effective political or economic or military or legal change stems first from a change in social awareness

dont come at me with your stupid lies, you chomo. i will tell them what you said about the children

[-] 2 points by annie (132) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

10 Things We Want A Proposal for Occupy Wall Street Submitted by Michael Moore

  1. Eradicate the Bush tax cuts for the rich and institute new taxes on the wealthiest Americans and on corporations, including a tax on all trading on Wall Street (where they currently pay 0%).

  2. Assess a penalty tax on any corporation that moves American jobs to other countries when that company is already making profits in America. Our jobs are the most important national treasure and they cannot be removed from the country simply because someone wants to make more money.

  3. Require that all Americans pay the same Social Security tax on all of their earnings (normally, the middle class pays about 6% of their income to Social Security; someone making $1 million a year pays about 0.6% (or 90% less than the average person). This law would simply make the rich pay what everyone else pays.

  4. Reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, placing serious regulations on how business is conducted by Wall Street and the banks.

  5. Investigate the Crash of 2008, and bring to justice those who committed any crimes.

  6. Reorder our nation's spending priorities (including the ending of all foreign wars and their cost of over $2 billion a week). This will re-open libraries, reinstate band and art and civics classes in our schools, fix our roads and bridges and infrastructure, wire the entire country for 21st century internet, and support scientific research that improves our lives.

  7. Join the rest of the free world and create a single-payer, free and universal health care system that covers all Americans all of the time.

  8. Immediately reduce carbon emissions that are destroying the planet and discover ways to live without the oil that will be depleted and gone by the end of this century.

  9. Require corporations with more than 10,000 employees to restructure their board of directors so that 50% of its members are elected by the company’s workers. We can never have a real democracy as long as most people have no say in what happens at the place they spend most of their time: their job. (For any U.S. businesspeople freaking out at this idea because you think workers can't run a successful company: Germany has a law like this and it has helped to make Germany the world’s leading manufacturing exporter.)

  10. We, the people, must pass three constitutional amendments that will go a long way toward fixing the core problems we now have. These include:

a) A constitutional amendment that fixes our broken electoral system by 1) completely removing campaign contributions from the political process; 2) requiring all elections to be publicly financed; 3) moving election day to the weekend to increase voter turnout; 4) making all Americans registered voters at the moment of their birth; 5) banning computerized voting and requiring that all elections take place on paper ballots.

b) A constitutional amendment declaring that corporations are not people and do not have the constitutional rights of citizens. This amendment should also state that the interests of the general public and society must always come before the interests of corporations.

c) A constitutional amendment that will act as a "second bill of rights" as proposed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt: that every American has a human right to employment, to health care, to a free and full education, to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat safe food, and to be cared for with dignity and respect in their old age.

[-] 1 points by unoccupywallstreet (81) 2 years ago

Yeah, have a guy who got rich off of conspiracy theories write your goals for you. Wouldn't it make more sense to have goals before a movement anyway? Not vice versa.

  1. I'm sure Michael doesn't include himself in this, even though he's a millionaire.

  2. Why not? They're private citizens. That sounds like something a dictator would put into effect.

  3. The rich will probably never need social security. Also: $50,000 X 6% = $3,000. $1,000,000 X 0.6% = $6,000. So they pay double the amount and this is somehow 90% less? Interesting.

  4. More laws wouldn't matter, especially if they don't enforce the ones in place now. People always want to pile more laws onto existing ones. Laws aren't force fields, they don't (in and of themselves) prevent things from happening. They just outline the unlawfulleness of an act and it's repercussions. Laws are broken everyday.

  5. The one I agree with.

  6. The wars have gone on too long, for various reasons, but at least they are important. Re-opening libraries? Implementing nationwide internet? Yeah, awesome priorities.

  7. I'm not against universal health care per se, but I think you'll find it hasn't been universally successful. The way it's implemented and, again, accountability would have to be on point. And it definitely would not be free.

  8. I think oil was supposed to run out like a hundred years ago wasn't it? Still going. Also, pollution is bad, but it's also way over-blown as far as it's effects. This point has little to do with OWS and is more about Moore's liberal agenda.

  9. This is almost too ridiculous. Private companies that are forced to give people a job based on votes? I'm stunned.

  10. We, the people, according to one man.

A) Publicly financed? What would that entail? Voting on a weekend might help, but making voter registration automatic isn't gonna increase voter turn out. Paper ballots are fine, but they aren't perfect either. Hanging chad anyone? B) But they are composed of people. So if you work for a corporation, you're a soul-less robot? More liberal propaganda. C) Communism. Plain and simple. Who would pay for all this stuff? The government. Where do they get ALL of their money from? The people. I'm not working hard so a good chunk of my money could go to somebody looking to get a free ride.

Thankfully, none of these amendmants would ever pass. Americans as a whole aren't that ignorant.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 2 years ago

Here is what I am doing - will you step up and help us?
We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple –
and that is proven popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
That even 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS
with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!

YOUR ACTION ----> JOIN US TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE
Our only immediate goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decision Citizens United (2010) , that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons &
have no personhood rights”

We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we only have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
ACTION ----> JOIN US


THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)


If they could tie the left and right into a success -
WHY CAN'T WE ??????????

ACTION ----> JOIN US


I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.

5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.

Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
ACTION ----> JOIN US


I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.


Join the Restore Democracy Working Group at
............. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NYCRDWG
Plan details with supporting documentation at: http://bit.ly/vK2pGI
RDWG regular meeting 6-8PM @ 60 Wall St @ Wednesdays


ACTION ----> JOIN US TO PASS THE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

TO END CORPORATE PERSONHOOD


Whereas --

The OWS Declaration of the Occupation of New York City states that
"a democratic government derives its just power from the people,
not from corporations."

and --

the ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 83% of the entire US population
opposes the Supreme Court Citizens United decision,
which affirmed that corporations are people.

and --

by supporting the overturning of corporate personhood,
OWS clearly aligns itself with the vast majority of the American people
who support ending the fundamentally flawed and anti-democratic concept
that corporations are people.

therefore --

We support a constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood.


[-] 1 points by barb (835) 2 years ago

Right now the only goal should be is to educate the masses, be supportative of their complaints, realize that everyone may or may not share the same grievances with our system. The main theme that everyone agrees on is our system is broken and we need everyone to help in resolving our nation's ability to recover, or we can do nothing and let nature take its course.

[-] 1 points by aries (463) from Nutley, NJ 2 years ago

no goal - just a childish temper tantrum

[-] 1 points by stuartchase (861) 2 years ago

The goal is to make this company disappear. They need to be taken off the map.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/

The Revolution starts here!

[-] 1 points by blazefire (947) 2 years ago

All good points....Thanks, for your input and your words!

I would argue though that the seeming disorganisation, is merely the growing pains of a beginning. I would say that the state of affairs we find ourselves in results in there being no single reason to protest. There are too many to contemplate. This naturally has resulted in the seeming chaos we see when discussing occupy.... I think patience here is key. We're only 2 months in remember, and we are growing exponentially...more and more....And with discourse and discussion, applied reason and critical thinking, our goals will not just realise. They will manifest.

This is what I say....

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf

Here's what others have had to say....

http://occupywallst.org/forum/im-here-to-listen-what-is-it-you-want-to-be-heard/#comment-464830

Here's something you could do about it all.... right now....Free, 2 seconds, Easy.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/something-that-you-can-do-right-now-from-where-you/

[-] 1 points by fwankie123 (490) from Immokalee, FL 2 years ago

Signed Pledge From Democratic U.S. Congressional Candidates Running In Primaries In 2012 For The Support Of The OWS National Movement. The Quickest Path To REAL change! "Occupy Congress!"

"I pledge in writing that if I am elected to the U.S. Congress my top priorities will be passing legislation that includes the following:

Get Big Money Out Of Federal Politics - Pass the Fair Elections Now Act (S. 750 and H.R. 1404). A law where political candidates for federal office would raise a large number of small contributions from their communities in order to qualify for Fair Elections funding. Contributions are limited to $100.00. Strictly voluntary by the candidate to avoid legal issues. Require the Federal Communications Commission to grant free TVair-time to all federal candidates that qualify.

Create Jobs Now - A ten-year federal program that involves a New Works Progress Administration (WPA) and Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) to create over 5 million jobs rebuilding America that includes infrastructure banks run by engineers, not politicians to extricate ourselves from the Great Recession now and increase productivity later. Pay for it by taxing all Wall St. financial transactions at 1%. Raises $400 billion a year. A 3% annual surtax on incomes over $1 million. Raises another $200 billion a year.

End The Housing Crisis Now - Congress can and should modify the bankruptcy laws to allow primary residence mortgages to be eligible for restructuring by making banks lower the principal balance on all underwater mortgages to current market value and refinancing these loans to current market interest rates."

[-] 1 points by realtv (13) 2 years ago

It's about EDUCATION,

THE outcome of this is that the people who were complacent, are looking at the news, waking up, doing research, gaining power via education

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3117181384995669233&q=Venezuela+Chavez#docid=368302323300507208

[-] 1 points by unoccupywallstreet (81) 2 years ago

That's not a measurable goal though. That's why the OWS movement is going nowhere (well that, and because it's focusing on the wrong things). It is making people think about stuff, but really it's just providing sensationalist journalism for the media, and showing how untrained certain police agencies are at dealing with protests.

[-] 1 points by Xirristi (5) from Barcelona, CT 2 years ago

Political accountability is indeed one of the big problems. Now how do we fix it? You pointed to the lack of a central goal to unify the movement and I think that central goal lies in direct democracy. Demanding and introducing a higher level of direct democracy (developing our websites) is the one thing that could do the trick. A higher level of direct democracy would hold politicians to account and would represent the best means to pursue and achieve all other goals (social and political). Please go to realtimedemocracy.wordpress.com and vote for a higher level of direct democracy, which is the least divisive and most useful of immediate goals. Thank you.

[-] 1 points by unoccupywallstreet (81) 2 years ago

A purely direct democracy isn't a realistic goal. We have far too many people in the US, and far too many people who don't take the time to care about politics.

A better solution would be to refine and more closely monitor the representative democracy we currently have.

[-] 1 points by AJx315 (16) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Either you aren't paying attention or you don't know the difference between demands and solutions. The demands are all here for you to read stated very clearly. What's missing is an effective means to achieve these demands and if you expect this ti happen in such a short period as two months you're out of your mind. We know what we want, you know what we want, now we have to come up with the best possible ways of making that happen and in the meantime spread awareness through demonstration. We can't have our demands met without millions standing behind them.

[-] 1 points by unoccupywallstreet (81) 2 years ago

The demand of ending corruption? How very specific.

[-] 1 points by AJx315 (16) from New York, NY 2 years ago

Corrputoon in specific areas prioritized by specific area or I. The process of being prioritized to be addressed. Campaign finance. Big banks. Specific corporations lobbying in their own best interest at the expense of everyone else it affects. Politicians taking payoffs to vote in a specific manor. Should I be more specific for you?

[-] 1 points by annie (132) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

the goaI is ethics and humanity in the Iaws that guide us. a government that represents us and serves the peopIe. it is so simpIe but when you have corruption at every IeveI and big money distorting the truth...weII, it gets tricky and we have to take to the streets. can you imagine it getting worse?

[-] 1 points by annie (132) from San Diego, CA 2 years ago

and to add to that.... the peopIe standing in the street are the front Iines. the attention getters. and it's not easy. for every hippy girI dancing there is a Iot of coId and determined peopIe. what wouId YOU stand aII day and night in the street for? can you think of one thing throughout history...women's rights? chiId Iabor? civiI rights? anything? pIease don't beIittIe the movement. it doesn't heIp. there are countIess pIaces to find what you are Iooking for as to the WHAT and WHY of the occupation. try occupywriters.com or the documentary that won the academy award Iast year, "Inside Job" narrated by Matt Damon.

[-] 1 points by AFarewellToKings (1486) 2 years ago

OWS is beginning to look like the guy who fiddled while Rome burned. It's primarily the coming elections that has a clock ticking and OWS should not waste any time, especially in the wake of the evictions.

I think the average 99r would support the concept of a National General Assembly as the next step for the OWS. There are dedicated intelligent people coming at this from 1000 different angles so a NGA gives everyone a chance to be heard. If you are that committed become a delegate to the NGA. If you want to do a part, get involved with your congressional district general assembly.

With time being of the essence, I ask, what is the downside risk of holding A National General Assembly?

https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/

[-] 1 points by WarmItUp (301) 2 years ago

Yes you are correct we should not rally and protest because it might disrupt things and cause people to pay attention. (sarcasm) why are you even lurking here if you are not interested in learning about the occupy movement. There are countless lists of specific demands that people would like to see addressed, the problems with this country go beyond just voting someone new into office as you seem to be suggesting. specific policies have been put in place and specific regulations have been removed allowing wall street to act in an unchecked manor, gambling away teachers pensions, etc. So it is going to take a lot more than just voting left or right. you seem to be missing the point. This is not a politcal movement, most occupiers are moderate independents. That magical constituency who politicians always fight to win over as the independent voters are the ones who decide who gets elected. This is a forum where all construcitve voices are allowed to be heard. so why not take the time to tell us what you are displeased about with this country and perhaps a suggestion on how we can fix the problem. I assure you you will be listened to. But when you come into a discussion for the purpose of antagonizing people "unoccupywallstreet", what is the point. I think you will be surprised to learn we have a lot more in common than the devisive politicians would like us to believe. Most of us are pretty much in the middle. Fed up with both sides of the isle, this is why we are not looking to politicians to fix the problem, when the problem lies with poor business decisions made at the top levels of corporations and wall street.

[-] 1 points by FriendlyObserverA (610) 2 years ago

The rich elite have the means and resources to make it through things like losing a day of work. Can the same be said for the people working for them?

this is the answer you seek. it's right in front of you and yet you do not see.. perhaps you have to be poor worker to spot this..

[-] 1 points by shooz (26706) 2 years ago

The movement itself is about removing undue influence on our government.

This forum is designed to attract trolls.

Both are becoming increasingly effective.

[-] 1 points by doctorlove (-10) 2 years ago

Your a fudgepacking asshole so go fuck yourself

[-] 1 points by shooz (26706) 2 years ago

The forum also attracts those with an anal fixation.

[-] 1 points by doctorlove (-10) 2 years ago

Your a buttfuck douche bag. Go pound your queer lover in the ass

[-] 1 points by shooz (26706) 2 years ago

See what I mean?

[-] 1 points by demcapitalist (977) 2 years ago

Good stuff looking forward to the return of Glass/Steagall amendment

Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL) is tackling corporate money in politics head on. In one of the greatest signs yet that the 99 Percenters are having an impact, Rep. Ted Deutch (D-FL), a member of the House Judiciary Committee, today introduced an amendment that would ban corporate money in politics and end corporate personhood once and for all.

Deutch’s amendment, called the Outlawing Corporate Cash Undermining the Public Interest in our Elections and Democracy (OCCUPIED) Amendment, would overturn the Citizens United decision, re-establishing the right of Congress and the states to regulate campaign finance laws, and to effectively outlaw the ability of for-profit corporations to contribute to campaign spending.

“No matter how long protesters camp out across America, big banks will continue to pour money into shadow groups promoting candidates more likely to slash Medicaid for poor children than help families facing foreclosure,” said Deutch in a statement provided to ThinkProgress. “No matter how strongly Ohio families fight for basic fairness for workers, the Koch Brothers will continue to pour millions into campaigns aimed at protecting the wealthiest 1%. No matter how fed up seniors in South Florida are with an agenda that puts oil subsidies ahead of Social Security and Medicare, corporations will continue to fund massive publicity campaigns and malicious attack ads against the public interest. Americans of all stripes agree that for far too long, corporations have occupied Washington and drowned out the voices of the people. I introduced the OCCUPIED Amendment because the days of corporate control of our democracy. It is time to return the nation’s capital and our democracy to the people.”

[-] 2 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 2 years ago

Still we're swimming the against the current.

The reason why we have to put in place an amendment now is because the supreme court decided that money is speech.

The institution that's supposed to protect our rights is all too eager to violate them for the benefit of the 1%

[-] 1 points by unoccupywallstreet (81) 2 years ago

It will take a lot of work, but it can be done. We just need to shift our focus to the root cause, the politicians.

[-] 1 points by jjuussttmmee (607) 2 years ago

so true those that worship money are now in control they will do anything for their GOD, MONEY...... YOU CAN ONLY SERVE ONE MASTER

[-] 1 points by demcapitalist (977) 2 years ago

You /we may be swimming against the current but at least there's the beginning of a coordinated effort now. It might now seem like much yet but we have to start somewhere. You'll see, it will catch on. need a few good TV commercials for candidates ---------like Elizabeth Warren

[-] 1 points by unoccupywallstreet (81) 2 years ago

I don't agree with what he said entirely. The corporations didn't drown out the voice of the people. The people weren't saying anything (or nearly enough), and that opened the door for corporations to step in.

The first thing we should do, is recognize that it's our fault things are the way they are instead of blaming an outside force. Then we need to take action to fix it and learn from our mistake so that it doesn't happen again.

Getting rid of corporate funding for election campaigns may or may not be a step in the right direction (I guess whom ever is already the richest will have the best campaign), but it's hardly the end all fix we need. Decreasing government power and increasing government accountability is where it's at.

[-] 1 points by demcapitalist (977) 2 years ago

As far as accountability goes I'd love to see the fed books and the records of who got what bailout money, Increased accountability would certainly lead to less corruption. I don't have a problem with government power if it represents the power of the people like it's supposed to. It's when it just serves corporate greed that it's a problem.

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

If what you want is to decrease government power and increase accountability - I would suggest that you will have a much better chance of accomplishing that once the corruption is ended and all of our voices are heard fairly and equally in government.

Ending government corruption is the first fix. Then we have the opportunity to fix everything else - once our voices are heard again in government. The uncorrupted solutions will lead to better outcomes and an improved society.

[-] 0 points by BofL (434) 2 years ago

Well, yes indeed, I have to agree- the first step to solving the problem should be to solve the problem causing the problem we are trying to solve. That way by the time we get around to solving THE problem, it's problem solved, time to invent a new one. I suggest that the reason we go in circles is twofold: it's intentional, and ignorance of history is self perpetuating. Start with history. http://occupywallst.org/forum/interesting-read-about-the-constitution-and-corpor/ I know-everyone thinks they learned hisory while sleeping through the lies they taught in government school. If they had taught the truth, you might have paid attention and figured out how to fix this by now. It's not too late to learn how to fix this problem-but no matter how much everyone wants a fix, there's no solution without education. Learn how we got here!

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

Yes, I've seen this before. Quite honestly, I couldn't make heads or tails. I did not see the point. Unless it is another argument to End the Fed or something. Maybe there's a point to it, but I do not see the significance of it, or how this proposes to solve anything.

I suggest the reason we go in circles here is because of the anarchists that are running this protest. The whole notion that there are no leaders is absolutely non-sensical and is a lie. The structure of the GA's and working groups, a non-heirarchical utterly ridiculous structure designed to be ineffective, along with its direct democracy neighbor, completes the absurdity of this whole movement. And makes it all but impossible to address the legitimate issue of ending government corruption by working in a legitimate way - with and through government. Unless we lose the anarchy and direct democracy, get a real leader and an effective structure and organization, the result will be more circles.

[-] 0 points by BofL (434) 2 years ago

April, I can tell you are sincere. You are seeing the symptoms of the problem, and only the symptoms, until you patiently dig into the connections between the Soros network (O.S.I.) his "anarchists" and the banks that own the Federal Reserve. Wall Street is just symptomatic as well. The problem is much older and much wider than your current focus allows you to see. Do you understand who Soros works for? Rothchild central bank cartel. Do you know who they are? Do you understand that the U.S. has been bankrupt since 1933, that your birth certificate (and everyone elses) is traded as property, for which you are a surety? Do you realize that the entire history of this country since the Civil War has been carefully whitewashed to cover the trail of The Bank of England, whose agents infiltrated our country and reclaimed it for The Crown? Do you realize that by trying to work within the OWS movement, as it's been framed (to fail) you are essentially complaining that the sun is bright, while staring straight at it? Take time to patiently read this link http://www.gemworld.com/USAVSUS.HTM understand where you are in history. Spend more time imagining the implications of the moment you're living in, rather than getting swamped by the moment. This is over 500years of organized imperialism that you are dealing with. Most people inside and outside the OWS movement are caught up in myths within myths within myths-are doing work FOR the forces they claim to oppose...without knowing it. Truth is far stranger than fiction-take a huge step back and look at things with a long view of history. Only THEN can your mind effectively work considering how we solve these complex problems. Best regards

[-] 0 points by danmi (66) 2 years ago

The Gov as we all know is corrupt and this is what us Americans should be focusing on. The 1% got their wealth by working hard but they also gained more wealth (tax breaks, entitlements, etc) through the corrupt Gov. The Gov and the 1% are "hand in hand" Billions and billions of our tax dollars get wasted every year by unnecessary wars, failed Gov programs, fraud, etc. GM, Chrysler, banks, that were "to big to fail" should not have ever gotten bailed out in the first place. GM claims they have paid the loan back but that is false. American taxpayers still own 26% of GM, yet GM is now building a mega plant in China.

[-] 0 points by kickthemout (83) 2 years ago

What this movement has to do: organize as a political party (Global Revolution Party? (OWS)! then start making demands on our politicians until we can run our own people for all the available positions of office from Village to State to Congress then we can make our own changes. Or we could go by the thousands and circle the House of Representatives and U.S. Senate ( that's where all legislation which is causing all of our problems and oppression is enacted) and give them 48 hours to get out of town. The Arabs did it and won. We can do it to. Or as said we start organizing and take over political power the old fashioned way. We have choices. http://www.usapoliticaltyranny.info, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ7BPuN50cY

[-] 1 points by unoccupywallstreet (81) 2 years ago

None of that will ever happen. But hey, dream on you little dreamer you.

P.S. You guys are not the majority.

[-] 0 points by BofL (434) 2 years ago

Look-the Arab spring was a fail for the 99%. The 1% Arabs still have the 99 by the short hairs. This is a setup-see the conversation above between April and I. Learn what OWS is-get ouside the label-keep pushing the movement. The 1% owns this little flypaper COINTELOP and you are teaching them what they need to know. We all are. It's pretty clever. You're saying good things, but it's for naught unless you learn what this really is.