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Forum Post: Here's some of what Michael Moore has SAID IN THE LAST 72 hours. . .

Posted 1 year ago on Dec. 18, 2012, 1:10 p.m. EST by therising (6643)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

"A country that officially sanctions horrific violence (invade Iraq, drones kill kids, death penalty) is surprised when a 20-yr old joins in?

I hate to say it, but killing is our way. We began America w/ genocide,then built it w/ slaves. . .

The long term solution to reducing gun deaths is to change our society from one of perpetual war and fear to one of peace and tolerance.

The short term solution? A law immediately banning semi-automatic weapons & mega-clips. Must have license to own gun. Must pass mental exam.

Also, end the U.S.-sanctioned policy of killing: End the wars NOW, end death penalty. Stop banks and insurance companies from destroying ppl

It's all violence & it's all connected. Why does this happen only in America? The answer is right in front of u. And it's not just the guns." (Michael Moore comments end and mine begin here).

I think we need to end the culture of death we have going now. Another world is possible if we unseat the corporatists who have hijacked our great nation and propogated this culture of death. We can unseat them using the methods described HERE: "ANOTHER WORLD IS POSSIBLE" http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-message-to-all-the-well-meaning-democrats-and-re/ AND HERE: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/

51 Comments

51 Comments


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[-] 3 points by Ache4Change (3280) 1 year ago

Well said and - 'The Dec. 14 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn. that left 28 people dead—including 20 children— has sent shock waves through our society. It penetrated the elaborate defenses that we as individuals and as a culture have erected to live with the internal contradictions of the bargain we have made to both oppose and embrace violence. Occasionally reality exposes and trumps the cognitive dissonance of this uneasy but deeply embedded arrangement.' - taken from this highly recommended article - http://www.nationofchange.org/building-nonviolent-culture-after-newtown-1355757331 & ...

"Every year there are 30,000 gun deaths and 300,000 gun-related assaults in the U.S.," he said. "Firearm violence may cost our country as much as $100 billion a year. Toys are regulated with greater care and safety concerns than guns ... we have become so gun loving, so blasé about home-grown violence that in my lifetime alone, far more Americans have been casualties of domestic gunfire than have died in all our wars combined." - from, by Bill Moyers - http://www.nationofchange.org/building-nonviolent-culture-after-newtown-1355757331 .

Michael Moore, Bill Moyers and many on these threads are right in the matter of gun control, called 'control' because absolutely no one is talking about an outright ban of all guns!

Never Give Up Striving For Effective Change! Occupy The Ideas! Solidarity.

[-] 3 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Great info and thanks for the links. Will check them out this evening.

[-] 2 points by peacehurricane (293) 1 year ago

This is a second attempt commenting on The World of All Possibility. We do see Power is with the People for our country to exist. Liberty awaits many for furthering this living definition is the law. Change is life.

[-] 2 points by GypsyKing (9780) 1 year ago

Very fine post. What you say at the end is straight to the point. Another world is possible, both in our enternal world and then, by extention, in our external world. We must renounce violence in all it's forms: war, the death penalty, spouce abuse, etc.

Einstein said, "Nuclear weapons have changed everything but the way people think. . . " We must finally change the way we think. The situation calls for nothing less than a psychic and spiritual beakthrough. We can do this, one by one. We can renounce violence, and empower freedom . . . real freedom in all it's forms. We can do this right now. We can. It's up to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b26BD5KjH0

GK

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Wow. You are so right. We keep searching for solutions ONLY in the external but you make a great point: that will only stick if we also change our internal point of view, the window through which we view the world.

Let me say a few things here. I know you get this, but writing it out helps me remember it -- and goodness knows I have to remind myself every day :). If you are someone else reading this and this seems hokey to you, read through to the end, I think you might see that it's not only accurate, but that it might be the solution we've been looking for, a totally different one than most of us have considered:

From what I have read and experienced, it seems our current window (which frames everything in a diaristic perspective) will lead to conflict in the world no matter how well meaning we are and no matter what the external circumstances. As long as the perspective is "us vs. them" and "me vs. the world", by definition we cannot find peace. The good news is that, once we take a step back, we can eventually come to realize that this dualism is just a delusion. The struggle is not really out their in world as we think it is ("happening to us"). The struggle is in our heads and it is simply being projected out into the world. When in our minds we segment our daily moment by moment experience into me vs. the world, we unkowingly color each moment -- almost as if we are wearing green tinted glasses. We think the whole world is green. But it isn't. We can take those glasses off and view the world as it is, not separate parts but and interdependent whole.

To use a common example which I'm sure you're familiar with (Inread it in many places including Thich Nhat Hanh's commentary on "The Heart Sutra", we think we are separate waves in the ocean. Each individual wave is "born", rises and then "dies". Some waves are bigger or faster than others. All have a unique shape. This is our perspective. We lament and resist the changing of our lives and what we perceive as death. We compare ourselves unfavorably along the way to others. It is a dissatisfied perspective that leads to continual stress and resistance.

But as you know, the truth is that waves are just water. They aren't born and the don't die and they aren't really separate. All the stress of the situation -- and the resulting clumsy and destructive flailings and stride that come with that stress -- drop away when we drop the delusion of the dualistic view of the world we mistakenly believe to be reality. When we realize we are water (rather than individual waves) we see commonality and connection. Attacking the neighbor or someone across the sea is then just about as silly as your left hand attacking your right if the right hand accidentally taps the left with a hammer while trying to drive a nail to hang a picture.

I'll offer an even better perspective of why we are actually all connected by using another common example used by Thich Nhat Hanh and others. When we look at a piece of paper with our dualistic eyes, we see it as somehow separate from us. But the truth is that that paper came from a tree. So, if we are honest, we recognize the tree (wood) in the paper. And if we continue to be honest, we realize that a logger cut down that tree. So the logger is really part of the paper too. The bread that fed the logger and the baker who baked that bread are part of the paper too. And the free wouldn't have grown in the first place without water and sunshine, so, the truth is that we can't have the paper without including the sun and the clouds. They are part of the paper's existence too. This isn't some hokey new age philosophy. This is just the truth. When we take a step back and continue the line of thinking, we begin to realize that there is nothing that is not somehow connect to ("in") that paper. That's why, as you know, the Buddhists call the paper (and every other form) "empty". What they mean is that it is empty of a separate self. Empty of a separate self. It can't existence without everything else. It is conditional. The idea that it is some separate object unconnected to everything else is just false. Unfortunately, that false perspective of separateness is the one we carry around with us all day long, most of us. It's our " green glasses". So we think the world is green (separate).

It doesn't have to be this way. Another world is possible. Not by wishing, hoping or just sitting there but by challenging the worldview we believe to be so solid and right and realizing it is an illusion. We are not separate. All this fear and loneliness that comes from that deluded perspective brings with it all sorts of strife, struggle, violence and sadness. For, if I wrongly see another person across the room or across the ocean as separate from me, I will have no problem killing him. If, on the other hand, I come to grips with reality, I discover that I am connected to that person and I am pretty unlikely to attack him.

This doesn't mean gun control or environmental laws or laws regulating how big business behaves in the marketplace or laws preventing corporations from buying elections are unnecessary. They are necessary because there are obviously so many people who hold a dualistic perspective. They see only their own interests and don't realize that their interests are connected to the interests of others. So those guardrails need to be up for that reason. But the ultimate goal of the guardrails is to get society to at least a minimum level of stability such that people have a chance to breathe and have a life that is a little less full of struggle so that they might be in a better position to discover the truth of unity, be in a position to discover that they've had those green dualistic glasses on all along and THAT delusion in their thinking is what was causing them and others to suffer so much and cause so much trouble for each other.

Martin King, Jr. put it like this: "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. We are, all of us, inextricably linked."

Albert Einstein put it like this:

“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

Dostoevsky wrote the following in the Brothers Karamazov (all of the following paragraphs are Dostoevsky):

"Today, everyone asserts his own personality and strives to live a full life as an individual. But these efforts lead not to a full life but to suicide, because instead of realizing his personality, man only slips into total isolation. For in our age, man has been broken up into self-contained individuals, each of whom retreats into his lair, trying to stay away from the rest, hiding himself and his belongings from the rest of mankind, and finally isolating himself from people and people from him.

And while he accumulates material wealth in his isolation, he thinks with satisfaction how mighty and secure he has become, because he is mad and cannot see that the more goods he accumulates, the deeper he sinks into suicidal impotence. The reason for this is that he has become accustomed to relying only on himself; he has split off from the whole and become an isolated unit; he has trained his soul not to rely on human help, not to believe in man and mankind, and only to worry that the wealth and privileges he has accumulated may get lost.

Everywhere men today are turning scornfully away from the truth that the security of the individual cannot be achieved by his isolated efforts but only by mankind as a whole.

BUT AN END to this fearful isolation is bound to come and all men will understand how unnatural it was for them to have isolated themselves from one another. This will be the spirit of the new era and people will look in amazement at the past when they sat in darkness and refused to see the light. . . . . . Until that day, we must keep hope alive, and now and then a man must set an example, even if only an isolated one, by trying to lift his soul out of its isolation and offering it up in an act of brotherly communion, even if he is taken for one of God's fools.

This is necessary to keep the great idea alive."

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I don't have much faith in Moore's party but I think it's time Occupy took a stance against the death penalty.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

if you really want to address these issues. there is a solution. now i know it sounds like new age hippy dippy bullshit. but i think it is time we have an adult conversation about psychedelics and marijuana. lets consider some of the benefits.

MDMA-Assisted Psychotherapy - Preliminary studies have shown that MDMA in conjunction with psychotherapy can help people overcome PTSD, and possibly other disorders as well. MDMA is known for increasing feelings of trust and compassion towards others, which could make an ideal adjunct to psychotherapy for PTSD.

LSD & Psilocybin-Assisted Therapy for Anxiety - The deep personal and often spiritual experiences enabled by the careful use of psilocybin and LSD are well known. Researchers are interested in these substances for their potential to help people with a variety of conditions, focusing primarily on the treatment of anxiety associated with life-threatening illness.

Ibogaine Therapy for Drug Addiction - Ibogaine is a psychoactive alkaloid naturally occurring in the West African shrub iboga. While ibogaine is a mild stimulant in small doses, in larger doses it induces a profound psychedelic state. Historically, it has been used in healing ceremonies and initiations by members of the Bwiti religion in various parts of West Africa. People with problem substance use have found that larger doses of ibogaine can significantly reduce withdrawal from opiates and temporarily eliminate substance-related cravings

Medical Marijuana - Researchers are currently seeking regulatory approval to conduct a study of smoked and/or vaporized marijuana for symptoms of PTSD in veterans of war.

This is just the tip of the psychedelic iceberg. There are many more useful psychedelics and even more uses. from personal growth and transformation to mystical experiences and relationship counseling to treating depression.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 1 year ago

Yeah, I've have heard of Anxiety treatment and PTSD treatment could be aided by psychoactive drugs. 1) I think people do need a change in perspective when they get stuck or feel empty 2) I think people are looking for a spiritual experience sometimes ...whether through meditation, yoga, exercise ...or through drug 3) Alcohol is the drug of Choice of USA and most of the world - But Alcohol is a depressant, Alcohol causes disease, Alcohol causes accidents like driving, Alcohol is the root of Social Issues like Violence, Alcohol makes some people mean and nasty 4) You don't want people drinking alcohol as ...their only opportunity to use drugs and loosen up 5) People Die of Alcohol related Disease everyday 6) Pharmacology should provide a gentle alternative to people for changing their mood & perspective.

We know our History has been suppressed and controlled ... seems that the powers that be have controlled our Leisure time, free time, mood, and stress relief ... not to mention creativity and the arts.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I'm totally open to all that. Obviously not for everyone and requires more study to be publicly accepted but I don't doubt for one minute that lots of good could come from such use.

[-] 1 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 1 year ago

if you don't have a medical condition that could kill you or drive you mad it is for you. even if you do it is likely for you.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree in general. Not enough experience to advise others. Very comfortable with that for myself. Have discovered miliar experiences through meditation. One or the other isn't better. Just similar.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

MM might be a proud member of the NRA and all that but what is he talking about? A clip goes inside a magazine. Dems are proposing banning high capacity magazines but not the semi-automatic weapons that use them. Banning semi-automatics means banning anything that uses a magazine. His statment doesn't make sense. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27694) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

The D from California who wrote the original ban on assault weapons is talking about banning 100 assault weapons ( BY NAME ) and others by description of function. This would be going forward - not a matter of rounding up what is already in circulation - stopping the increase of these types of weapons in private hands.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

You have to get rid of all semi-automatics-that means anything that uses a magazine. That leaves the old-fashioned six shooter. Limiting the number of rounds in a magazine is not moving forward, it's moving sideways. From what I've seen a magazine can be changed in less than 2 seconds. I'm leaning towards banning all guns period if dems aren't going to take this seriously.

[-] 1 points by DKAtoday (27694) from Coon Rapids, MN 1 year ago

Luck with removing all such weapons that already are out in the public.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Here's how long it takes to change a handgun magazine. Don't blink;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAFxgQmxbGI

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Uh, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness the corporate crusade/conquest way? Uh, got Article V?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

But you're not explaining it in clear terms. How would you explain it to the guy beside you at a bar with dirt under his fingernails, a working person who may not have attended college or finished high school? Can you put it in those terms for me? He turns to you and says "I don't know what we can do about this country. And you say.....

[-] 0 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Okay, assume I've explained everything to him as I have you, but he didn't get any of it and is unwilling to accept the idea of Article V. I ask;

which mother or father in this nation will ignore or pass up the real opportunity to assure their child will grow into a nation that holds high and honors understanding that can create; forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting their life, their liberty and their pursuit of happiness?

He says, "Huh?" I repeat it and ask if he knows of one mother or father that would ignore a real opportunity. So far, all decline. Its against our instinct to deny future generations that possibility.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

OK - so you're not able/willing to explain it from the beginning in simple terms a regular person can understand. Doesn't seem real likely this will get anywhere then.

[-] -1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

I did explain it from the beginning and no one has ever produced a mother or father that was willing to ignore the real opportunity to assure their child grows in a nation that respects the freedom to speak and make an understanding that can create: foregiveness, tolerence, acceptance, respect, trust, friendship and love, protecting life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Meaning they understand, or will understand just fine.

It a matter of knowing that politics as usual or partisan politics are not going to work and choosing a viable alternative which is SOLEY with the people.

I've proven that there is a universal, common agreement we can make that is ALSO a part of legal due process, the "constitutional intent" part of Article V.

That common agreement is also the only part that ows or any other movement does not have. That is the beginning, the rest of it can go a number of different ways that work for us.

Here is a poster that has a strange kind of integrity. She won't try to oppose Article V any further because she can't find the right mother or father.

MsStacy http://occupywallst.org/forum/gunself-control/#comment-895308 is currently evading commenting upon the cure for her fears which are just like yours, Preparatory Amendment.

Can you find a mother or father that will ignore that real opportunity?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You've lost me royolite.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Micheal Moore right on point. The change can only come if we stand up and protest all pols against our countries violence.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I agree. We need to push nonviolently with direct action & political action from the inside and out. Need to hit nonviolently on all fronts. Another world is possible: We have the power in our hands: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I'm there. With you. and pushing on the street for change, And at the voting both to keep the right wing wackos out of office.

And here challenging all anti 99%'rs.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Damn right. Right on!!! Well said. Solidarity. We, the millions who have woken out of the hazy spell the 1% have cast, can do this --- We can awaken our fellow citizens and rise up with nonviolent direct action on all fronts. We are the 99%. And as soon as we realize that, we humans and the environment and our economy will no longer be harmed by the selfish and clumsy hands of a relative few greedy people. There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

Goethe said this:

"Until one is committed, there is a hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness.  Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there is one elementary truth - the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans; that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves too.  All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred.  A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manor of unforseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would come his way.  Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.  Begin it now."

Please spread the word.

Another world is possible: http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-message-to-all-the-well-meaning-democrats-and-re/

We have the power: http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-dont-see-the-power-we-have-in-our-hands-to-tran/

[-] 0 points by KevinPotts (363) 1 year ago

"A country that officially sanctions horrific violence (invade Iraq, drones kill kids, death penalty) is surprised when a 20-yr old joins in?"

"...end the U.S.-sanctioned policy of killing: End the wars NOW, end death penalty. Stop banks and insurance companies from destroying ppl

It's all violence & it's all connected. Why does this happen only in America? The answer is right in front of u. And it's not just the guns."

Don’t get me wrong, I like Michael Moore and he does a lot to fight the good fight. But when it comes to our corrupt 2party system, I feel like he sold out supporting Obama this last election. He voted for a War President. Let me repeat that…He voted for a War President. And he begged America (practically on his knees) to support and to vote for a War President. Those drone attacks that kill kids? He voted for that. The U.S.-sanctioned policy of killing? Michael Moore sanctioned that policy himself personally by voting for Obama. Because Obama has been a War President and a 1% ass-kisser for the last 4 years and Michael Moore knew that. Michael Moore complained about it, he spoke out about it, he criticized Obama for selling out the American people, he criticized Obama for signing the NDAA, he criticized Obama for the Wars. But in the end? Michael Moore voted for Obama. And he begged everyone else to vote for Obama too. And he justified it by convincing himself that we must always choose between the lesser-of-2-evils, because he was afraid of Romney. But the lesser-of-2-evils is still evil and Michael Moore knew that. A perfect example of American stupidity, herd mentality and compliant gullibility.

“It's all violence & it's all connected. Why does this happen only in America? The answer is right in front of u. And it's not just the guns."

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

So why does it only happen in America?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

It's the lies the libe(R)tarians have been telling you all along.

http://inthesetimes.com/article/14339/koch_brothers_gun_control/

Don't forget, Daddy founded the John Birch society too.

Right wing shit all the way.

So stow your bullshit, or take to the the blaze.

[-] 0 points by stevebol (1269) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I'm not a big MM fan but people like him are the only ones offering real solutions right now. I think he's wrong about the mega-clips. People would violate laws against mega-clips because the penalties against them would not be severe. Chuck Shumer is wrong about this too. Anything with a clip has to go. The mental exam wouldn't work unless every single person had HC and Obamacare isn't going to cover everyone. All in all I think Moore is right on the money. End the wars, the death penalty. End the culture of death.

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

I think you're right tat we need to end the culture of death. I think that is ultimately the solution. The award-winning film "Why We Fight" lays this out really well. I think we just need to unseat the corporatists who have hijacked our democracy using the means discussed in the middle of this post (ANOTHER WORLD IS POSSIBLE: http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-message-to-all-the-well-meaning-democrats-and-re/ ) and then we'll be well on our way to getting rid of the culture of death.

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

He has everything wrong with the exception of the "mental exam" - I would agree with him on that.

It's apparent we already have a society of younger people who have no coping skills and when they can't deal with circumstances that they disagree with or can't deal with they lash out in someway with violent actions or comments.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Why do they lash out with violence and see it as a way to solve problems? Hmmm. . . Where would they get such an idea? Ever seen the award winning film "Why We Fight"?

[-] -1 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well, if the problem with a violent society isn't solved, there will always be those who feel the need for gun ownership. - Don't you think that that's what drives people to buy gun?

[-] 1 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

What do you think drives people to SHOOT a gun at another human being as a solution to a problem? Where would they learn that?

[-] 0 points by Shayneh (-482) 1 year ago

Well lets start with violent interactive video games - those games give individuals who may want to harm someone ideas on how to do it.

A Psychologolist said violent video games is sort of like smoking - lots of people smoke, not everyone gets cancer but there are those who do.

He said the same applies to violent video games - he also gave an example of the way things are preceived by an individual who spends enormous hours exposed to these games.

If that person is walking by someone and he gets bumped accidentally he may look at that "bump" as being confrontational instead of an accident.

Also suggested was psych exams and more concernes about children taking medication or mostly those who are not taking medication but need it.

So, there you have just a few suggestions that can do something about people who may have tendencies to become violent.

One other thing mentioned was "coping skills" which again being exposed to a constant barrage of violence diminishes and instead makes the person more confrontational.

The issue has to be addressed where it starts - within the individual.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You are willfully avoiding the point and it is showing the weakness of your case. I've explained several times that there is context here. That the example set for these kids is "solve problems with violence. It's what our corporate funded leaders do. Weapons, drones, attacks, wars, violence. They set the example. Why are we do surprised kids follow that example of dealing with problems using violence? You refuse to answer that question. Why?

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

We didn't begin our country with genocide? And build it with slaves?

Are you familiar with American history?.

I suppose I should add to Michael Moores comments that too many of us do not understand the founding violence of our nation. If we don't understand the roots (or are in denial) we can't progress.

[-] -1 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

America was not built by slaves.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Ahh, I guess all those hundreds and hundreds of millions of hours of free labor didn't happen then.

[-] -1 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

Free labor of slaves? Hundreds of millions of hours? THAT is what built this nation? Really? Care to find some truth as proof? Or are you too brainwashed and indoctrinated?

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

Keep howling coyote. Keep howling. :)

[-] -1 points by Coyote88 (-24) 1 year ago

Yeah that's right. Hahaha... Gods some of you here are so fucking lame......

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Are you one of those wack job confederate sympathizers who pretend slavery didn't happen?

[-] -1 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

culture of death, beginning america with genocide. What a crock of shit.
This country was founded on revolution, when peaceful means did not work, we resorted to arms. How did America become a superpower? It sure as hell wasn't by handing out flowers in airports. We are a nation based on strength and individualism. It has worked for us. Why must we hold up Europe as an example? They have had a history ENTIRELY different from ours. What one may call a culture of death, I call a culture of realism. There are evil, sick people out there. Beyond our borders, there are people who wish to do us great harm. They will not be swayed by pleases and thank yous. They will be persuaded by the threat and promise of a swift, immediate, kick in the ass in they cause us harm. the people who wish to have peace and love are well meaning, and a lot of good can come from their example. But that kind of naivette on a national scale cannot work.

[-] 2 points by therising (6643) 1 year ago

You really believe what you just wrote? Well, how do you respond to these two guys then? Are they not smart? Are they naive? Do they both not have humanity present and potential pegged highlander? Can you really live a full life as an individual without community, without connecting?

Forget about me. What would your response be to these two fellows if they were sitting at the bar next to you and spoke as follows?:

Albert Einstein said this:

“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”

Dostoevsky wrote the following in the Brothers Karamazov (all of the following paragraphs are Dostoevsky):

"Today, everyone asserts his own personality and strives to live a full life as an individual. But these efforts lead not to a full life but to suicide, because instead of realizing his personality, man only slips into total isolation. For in our age, man has been broken up into self-contained individuals, each of whom retreats into his lair, trying to stay away from the rest, hiding himself and his belongings from the rest of mankind, and finally isolating himself from people and people from him.

And while he accumulates material wealth in his isolation, he thinks with satisfaction how mighty and secure he has become, because he is mad and cannot see that the more goods he accumulates, the deeper he sinks into suicidal impotence. The reason for this is that he has become accustomed to relying only on himself; he has split off from the whole and become an isolated unit; he has trained his soul not to rely on human help, not to believe in man and mankind, and only to worry that the wealth and privileges he has accumulated may get lost.

Everywhere men today are turning scornfully away from the truth that the security of the individual cannot be achieved by his isolated efforts but only by mankind as a whole.

BUT AN END to this fearful isolation is bound to come and all men will understand how unnatural it was for them to have isolated themselves from one another. This will be the spirit of the new era and people will look in amazement at the past when they sat in darkness and refused to see the light. . . . . . Until that day, we must keep hope alive, and now and then a man must set an example, even if only an isolated one, by trying to lift his soul out of its isolation and offering it up in an act of brotherly communion, even if he is taken for one of God's fools.

This is necessary to keep the great idea alive."

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

What individualism?????

John Wayne? He couldn't do it with make up and wardrobe departments.

As far as REAL individuals?

They will be forced into poverty or driven insane.......by uncontrolled groups of people..

See Nicola Tesla and Howard Hughes as prime examples.

WallStreet does this kind of thing every day.

Individualism............pah!

Yer makin' me laugh.

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

No, actually, I was thinking of personal responsibility. Seeing a goal and achieving it. Learning that there are bad people out there and to develop a sense of caution, but not fear. Accidents happen. Tragedies happen. For the same reason I will not acknowledge this tragedy as an impetus for national referendums on firearms, I will not acknowledge this tragedy as a reason to re-evaluate or redifine this nation.
The genie is out of the bottle.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

That has never stopped those very same people from stomping on you the same way. In fact, they prefer you think it's your own fault for getting stepped on. That' s why the new term I suppose.

Back in my day, we just used to call that an attempt at common sense.

We didn't need some propagandized term, with a paragraph long description.

We weren't so high and mighty about it either.

Welcome to the 21st century I guess. It's clear you bought in ( to the corporate line.), hook line and sinker.

[-] 0 points by highlander (-163) 1 year ago

I am not looking at a longterm global solution to this at all. Could it perhaps be that there is no longterm solution? I am not looking for a national referendum after this tragedy. The government can hardly agree on the color of shit. We have an inability to get ANYTHING done on a national level. Fiscal cliff, budget, anything?
I believe that Sandy Hook needs to look at what happened at that school. And perhaps change things on a local level. My adage? If there is anything that needs to be messed up, look to the US government to mess it up.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 1 year ago

Global revolution is the ONLY solution.

Thinking small is why you can not see.

The culture of death has been created by marketing.

Fear, death and horror sell almost as well as sex.

It's been done in very subtle ways to add to the bottom line.

Welcome to reality.

Most of what the government has fucked up, it's fucked up at the behest of one corporation or another.

Look at all of what just happened in Michigan.

All for WallStreet and kin.

You may like being on that hook. I don't.