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Forum Post: GOP Ads: Disillusioned '08 Obama Supporters: Sound Familiar?

Posted 1 year ago on Oct. 1, 2012, 5:03 a.m. EST by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The GOP Strategy to Beat Obama is to Appeal to Disillusioned '08 Supporters, Buyers Remorse.

"I believed Obama would change the status quo, but he didn't..."

Why that sounds just like our Peter Pan Obama haters on this board. Chicken or egg? Did GOP strategy come first, or did "disillusioned" Obama bashers?

BILL MOYERS & Company: Kathleen Hall Jamieson on Political Debates and Deceptions

September 28, 2012

Master media decoder Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the University of Pennsylvania’s Annenberg Public Policy Center and founder of FactCheck.org, joins Bill to discuss a recent Annenberg Center report that reveals widespread ignorance of the presidential candidates’ major policy positions.

The two also view and assess the veracity of Obama and Romney’s recent TV ads, and talk about the potential impact of upcoming presidential and vice presidential debates.

BILL MOYERS: Think about this for a moment. Here we are one month from the election, what's the most effective ad that you've seen that is believable?

KATHLEEN HALL JAMIESON: Let me give you an example for each side. The ad that is being run by the Republicans and there are multiple forms of it, that shows voters who are real people who are looking at the camera and saying that they voted for him. This is Obama, this is President Obama. And they're really disappointed.

FEMALE VOTER: In 2008, I voted for Barack Obama.

FEMALE VOTER: He was new. He had new ideas.

FEMALE VOTER: I think that now we’ve given Obama a fair chance. And I don’t think he’s able to do what we need him to do.

MALE VOTER: The President is doing a mediocre job, and the economy in my opinion is still the same as it was four years ago.

KATHLEEN HALL JAMIESON: What's effective about that is that what Governor Romney has to do is persuade people who voted for President Obama that they shouldn't vote for him again. If the attack is strong on his competence or strong on some facet of his leadership, the danger is people hunker down and defend their original vote. This situates the voter where the voter is right now, It says, "We license you to reject the incumbent." It's an ad that says, "Let's make this a referendum.

http://billmoyers.com/segment/kathleen-hall-jamieson-on-political-debates-and-deceptions/

NEW YORK (AP) — One Republican campaign ad describes the "buyer's remorse" some voters feel about President Barack Obama. Another ad features a woman saying she had supported Obama because "he spoke so beautifully," but he's failed to deliver on his promises. Still another ad woos Obama supporters with a direct but gentle prod: "It's OK to make a change."

Come on in, the water's fine. That's the message from Republicans as they try to persuade voters who supported Obama in 2008, many of them women, to switch to Republican candidate Mitt Romney this time. Nearly all of the $100 million Romney and his allies have spent on TV ads in general election battleground states has been aimed at a single audience: swing voters who say they like Obama personally but are disappointed in his job performance. To reach those voters, Republicans have adopted a political soft sell: Coax them to consider Romney without criticizing the choice they made four years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5VMX2JahrU&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVJBcbUSzDY&feature=player_embedded#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99KFGiBc7Vw&feature=relmfu

This one is a busted fraud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoekOZTuTvU&feature=player_embedded

And one questioning his military policies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xltkutf2tNU&feature=player_embedded

Oh snap, you don't think the whiny newbies (and "non-newbies") who constantly bash Obama for disappointing them are really GOP infiltrators, do you? Nah, they wouldn't do that.

93 Comments

93 Comments


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[-] 4 points by NVPHIL (667) 1 year ago

So we are back to calling people who don't support obama republicans. That tactic was old when the catholic church called non believers heretics. But it'snot suprising considering obama true believers are almost as bad as rep believers when it comes to ignoring evidence that shows their leader is a fraud.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I'll go with indifferent mercenaries.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1268) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

A fraud in what sense? That he won the democratic nomination or that he won the presidency?

[-] 4 points by NVPHIL (667) 1 year ago

Showing the nation how peaceful he is while bombing multiple countries. Pretending to care about our rights while signing indefinate detention into law. Signing anti-protest bill. Going the rep path ofturning healthcare over to insurance while making it seem like the most progressive move ever. I admit to not knowing what the people who don't have healthcare are suffering but the law will give corps even more influence over americans. I agree he is much better then romney but that's more of a case of damning with faint praise.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

Healthcare

Rom: repeal "affordable care act" says business ore dropping health care. Insurance is costing more. He say Health care makes businesses less likely to hire people.

O:people worried about going bankrupt if sick. group plan ? says romney did a good thing in massachusettes with healthcare

Roc: calls 2 party policy "insurance care" 15 million without basic healthcare. 40,000 die due to lack of healthcare

J: the affordable care act is neither affordable or caring. poor are cared for but $20,000+ not covered . insurance costs are rising. medicare for all

Expanding the Debate: Debate Coverage of First Presidential Debate with Rocky Anderson & Jill Stein

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

Damned in degrees.

I'm at a loss to understand how everyone is just accepting of the illegality of the whole shebang.

It's like we all know how corrupt things are, but as long as someone keeps smiling, it will be alright.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Not a true 1% cult worshiper?

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

Not only are you a Republican but you are also a racist, obviously.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 1 year ago

i was called racist today by someone handing out buttons and asked me my opinion and i said "he was disappointing to me"

[-] 1 points by NVPHIL (667) 1 year ago

You forgot to mention sexist, facist, and any other ism you can think of.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1268) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I think I go back and forth on whether to vote Obama again about 5 times a day.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

This will definitely help:

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/undecided-voter/1418227

and there's a great Martin Short song here near the end (sorry could not find a clip): http://www.cbs.com/shows/late_show/video/

[-] 1 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/at-white-house-request-lockheed-martin-drops-plan-to-issue-layoff-notices/

Here's some FACTS for you WSmith-you love them so much! The Democratic Party isn't above manipulation when it serves their purpose.

The Democratic White House is asking defense contractors to NOT hand out pink slips required by the WARN act on time because it would have to happen BEFORE the election! (The WARN act mandates that companies with 100+ employees MUST warn their employees 60 days prior to their layoff/termination so they can plan and or find other jobs etc.) Because this administration decided to cut the defense budget, and those changes happen as of Jan 2013, pink slips need to be handed out in November. But the White House is pressuring companies hit by the defense budget cuts NOT to hand them out prior to the Election.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

[Please excuse my rudeness, but your blatant games are so boring]

Iraq and Halliburton trump any military mistake any POTUS could do forever.

The Budget cliff is all on obstructionist, sabotaging RepubliCons! And the Tea Party downturn.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/25/robert-draper-anti-obama-campaign_n_1452899.html

Courts Block GOP Voter Suppression Laws | Video

Pa. Judge Rules Strict Voter ID Law Will Go Into Effect Year After Election

SUMMARY

A Pennsylvania judge blocked a law that will require voters to show government ID at the polls from taking effect until after the 2012 elections. Ray Suarez asks Republican Pa. state representative Daryl Metcalfe and Judith Browne-Dianis of Advancement Project if the law addresses voter fraud or merely disenfranchises voters.

Take a good look at Republican Pa. state representative Daryl Metcalfe as he argues for voter suppression:

VIDEO: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/voting_10-02.html

http://www.gottavote.org/en/?choose-state=true

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Those ads are so transparently phoney.

They mention the debt/deficit which are just Right wing talking points & part of their decades long strategy (starve the beast) to explode the debt, then scream that we must cut pgms (that help the 99%).

They don't fool me. I think very few people are so stupid they can't see through the farce.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

But there message is the same as the Obama bashers on this board. "I was fooled by his promises but now I know he's just one of them... blah blah blah"

Transparent, phoney, hypocritical, sinister (flagrant sabotage)? You bet. Very few people are so stupid they can't see through the farce? Do you remember W? 2010? Snott Walker? There seems to be no end to peoples' fleeting grasp of reality. Whatever Iceland did to get a concerned and attentive electorate (and 80-90% turnout) we need to copy it.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I definitely like Icelands approach. The turn out was critical. I support mandatory voting here. I think also there was a larger number of women elected in Iceland, & I think we would do better with more women. mostly though we need to have pols who are willing to stand up to the 1% plutocrats. (that will never be repubs, Dems can be dragged back from the rightward drift they've been guilty of for 30 years).

In so far as Pres Obamas campaign promises, I never bought all the idealist promises made because as a realist I knew the right wing 1% plutocrats still held enough power to obstruct as they did. I also saw the apathy our fellow citizens continued after the 2008 election.

As a result I am not disappointed, I am amazed that Pres Obama has accomplished as much as he has. Especially with the most massive resistance in modern American history. And without the support of a large, robust, progressive,grassroots, protest movement that IS required to take back out govt from the 1% plutocrats.

Solidarity! Let's hope the repubs don't steal this election! And lets commit to large protests to pressure all pols to pass progressive solutions that help the 99%!

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

The vast majority of reliable constituents for both parties (more for Rs) is Big$. Pols serve their constituents! Obama has been hog tied right before our eyes. I repeat: There seems to be no end to peoples' fleeting grasp of reality. And add: blindness to the sabotage perpetrated for all to see.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nation-in-crisis-decisions-to-make-time-to-get-rea/

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

The solutions are hard to see. Certainly difficult to achieve. Our part has to be large scale protests for real progressive change.

And replace conservatives with progressives at the pols

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Is this hard to see?

Take a good look at Republican Pa. state representative Daryl Metcalfe as he argues for voter suppression:

VIDEO: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/voting_10-02.html

We need more honest humanitarians like him in government.

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!

http://www.gottavote.org/en/?choose-state=true

or

http://www.rockthevote.com/rtv_voter_registration.html?source=rtv.com-homegraphic

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I'm with you. Imagine all the eligible voters voting. Conservative dogma would disappear!

The 99% would finally take the govt back from the 1% plutocrats!

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Turnout and take back our democracy and anything will be possible.

Continued forfeiting of our democracy to Big$ and they will continue to call the shots!

http://www.gottavote.org/en/?choose-state=true

[-] 2 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

True dat.

[-] 1 points by JustinDM (251) from Atascadero, CA 1 year ago

I couldn't agree more with your last sentence. we need to quit playing their two party game and vote all of the corporate scumbags out. If you can't see what both partys are doing to this country then "transparent, phony, hypocritical, sinister (flagrant sabotage)" applies to you.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Deal with real politics and drop the idealistic utopia. It's OUR two party game, you have to play to score... or change it. Democracy is not a peanut gallery sport!

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nation-in-crisis-decisions-to-make-time-to-get-rea/

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

This tells a tale:
After the debate, I saw two small "focus" groups of uncommitted voters being interviewed
everyone agreed - willard won
no one, however was ready to VOTE for him
everyone agreed that they were not sure about where the truth really was in the debate
THAT IS THE PROBLEM
these people, in the next few weeks, will try to decide who to vote for
they have been so out of touch, the don't know a lie because they have been ignoring politics for a year.

I wonder if the koch-adelson-rove super pac ads will have any effect on them ?


Joe will not allow the Russian-athiest worshiper to push him around .
hopefully Obama will learn how to do it properly

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Yes, we have a very superficial, trite, Dancing with the Stars, audience out there. What really does it take for a person to be still "undecided" at this point? They're too busy or they just don't care, I'm betting on the latter. They'd know if Sharon Osbourne flashed a tit on camera in a heartbeat. Forget "truth," they have no clue about any of it. SNL's "The Undecided" and Martin Short's "Ambivalent" on Letterman Tuesday are completely right, people are clueless ~ and ARROGANT about it!

The BIG, SHINY, REPETITIOUS, SIMPLISTIC koch-adelson-rove super pac ads will most likely constitute their entire knowledge of this election.

Can it be funny AND true: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/undecided-voter/1418227

THIS IS THE PROBLEM: http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Idiocracy/70028899?locale=en-US

THIS SHOULD BE THE HEADLINE EVERYWHERE: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/04/958801/at-last-nights-debate-romney-told-27-myths-in-38-minutes/

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

I liked Rocky

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by MattHolck3 (34) 1 year ago

the GOP should demand a cease fire to US foreign aggression

[-] 3 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

...and on our democracy

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Perhaps they are disinfranchised with the entire system.

30% aren't registered because its all bullshit. 50% of that 70% dont bother because its all bullshit.

The few of us that are busting our ass to get new options more in the spotlight are constantly railroaded by people like you and your blind loyalty to horribly corrupted parties, proven corruption time and time again.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

How fucking dare you!

Our proud forefathers and framers, progressives and laborers, freedom riders and civil rights workers, and countless soldiers and civilians, too, DIED FOR OUR DEMOCRACY!! What you so vilely smear and denigrate!! The right and the 1% tyrants hate democracy, and the douche bags work over time to slime it so The People will too. More RW squawking points.

Democracy is not corrupt, it's neglected! Lowest voter turnout, highest Big$ turnout! What does turnout get us?? Look at Iceland: Banksters in prison, not bailed out, with an 80-90% Voter turnout! The people call the shots, not Big$, when the people turnout!! WTFU!

[-] 2 points by flip (5058) 1 year ago

that is not exactly correct - the framers (madison and hamilton especially) were very much against democracy (white men with property!) - much more info on that sunject if you are interested. you are right as to the rest of most of it but i give you emma goldman (and she was one smart woman if you don't know her work) - "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - if i remember correctly this was at a time when women were fighting to vote - it was thought at the time that if women got the right to vote there would be no more war - emma goldman was correct on that score

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

"Exactly correct"? Almost nothing is "exact," certainly not our democracy, which had a messy inception and remains messy today. Some framers had problems, it was a big change from monarchy. And land owners (white, of course) insisted on their prominence, and got it initially. Democracy and America evolved. But they fought and died for it's establishment. That's the "exact" point.

I know EG's quote. It was made in another context, and is sometimes used (like many other out of context quotes) to promote the futility and failure of democracy. Many people still don't like it and never will, they even reject it. Idealistic utopias never come true. I deal in real politics.

Democracy and politics are messy: dirty, mean and confusing, full of exceptions, contradictions and lies, and flagrantly manipulated by Big$ and made worse thanks to Citizens United and the politicians who promoted it. We let this happen.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/nation-in-crisis-decisions-to-make-time-to-get-rea/

[-] 4 points by flip (5058) 1 year ago

chill winston - as i said i mostly agree but let's be clear about the framers and democracy. if you want to post on a site where people are actually educated you need to be careful about how you phrase things - CHOMSKY: If you go back to the record of the Constitutional Convention, which took place in 1787, almost immediately after the end of the war, you see that they are already moving in another direction. James Madison -- who was the main framer, and one of the Founding Fathers who was most libertarian -- makes it very clear that the new constitutional system must be designed so as to ensure that the government will, in his words, “protect the minority of the opulent against the majority” and bar the way to anything like agrarian reform. The determination was made that America could not allow functioning democracy, since people would use their political power to attack the wealth of the minority of the opulent. Therefore, Madison argues, the country should be placed in the hands of the wealthier set of men, as he put it.

QUESTION: Isn’t that erection of barriers to democracy woven through the entire history of the United States?

CHOMSKY: It goes back to the writing of the Constitution. They were pretty explicit. Madison saw a “danger” in democracy that was quite real and he responded to it. In fact, the“problem” was noticed a long time earlier. It’s clear in Aristotle’s “Politics,” the sort of founding book of political theory -- which is a very careful and thoughtful analysis of the notion of democracy. Aristotle recognizes that, for him, that democracy had to be a welfare state; it had to use public revenues to ensure lasting prosperity for all and to ensure equality. That goes right through the Enlightenment. Madison recognized that, if the overwhelming majority is poor, and if the democracy is a functioning one, then they’ll use their electoral power to serve their own interest rather than the common good of all. Aristotle’s solution was, “OK, eliminate poverty.” Madison faced the same problem but his solution was the opposite: “Eliminate democracy.”

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Really, because the Dems came in 09 with a mandate, and what did we get?

Forcing poor people to buy insurance from corrupted industries, a troop surge in Afghanistan, more drone bombs etc.

Zero prosecution in the banking fraud.

Actually voting is a very minimal part of self governance, which is why our country is finally going down the tubes.

Self governance is more than an hour worth of work every two to four years. By the time the elections come, all the work is already done. All the campaigning is done (thats a real part of democracy) all the lobbyists are done, the establishment had made sure it wins either way with this bullshit two party system.

Just look at the upcoming debates. The questions will be bullshit, and both guys are already bought out.

This is NOT what democracy looks like.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

You know, we could factcheck.org all those "fair and balanced" points you just made, or we could agree you're just like the gentleman from PA in the news clip below:

Take a good look at Republican Pa. state representative Daryl Metcalfe as he argues for voter suppression:

VIDEO: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec12/voting_10-02.html

We need more "honest statesmen" like him in government.

Get People REGISTERED and get out the VOTE!!

http://www.gottavote.org/en/?choose-state=true

or

http://www.rockthevote.com/rtv_voter_registration.html?source=rtv.com-homegraphic

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Go ahead, fact check away. And dont give my your fair and balanced shit. Just because I think you are a pawn and misinformed, doesnt mean Im a god damn Republican. Occupy doesnt support ANY of this shit, regardless how hard you blind loyalists want it to.

After this election, not a damn thing will have changed, all the same major players will still be in their spots, and the pillaging of this country WILL continue.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Noam Chomsky recommends voting for Obama, pointless, solutionless fool.

[-] 0 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

Do you have links for this? If Noam is publicly stating backing this war loving government, Im writing him off.

Some of you really do need to be told who to follow, what to think, etc.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

I don't really go for academics like him, but a lot of indies do. http://www.alternet.org/election-2012/noam-chomsky-how-progressives-should-approach-election-2012

[-] 1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

So he's going to vote for Jill Stein, but if he lived in a "swing state" then he says people should vote for Obama. What a sell out.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Wrong: "To prefer evil to good is not in human nature; and when a man is compelled to choose one of two evils, no one will choose the greater when he might have the less."-Plato

[-] -1 points by hchc (3297) from Tampa, FL 1 year ago

You're stretching to avoid admitting this entire system is a freakin joke at this point.

[-] -2 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

It's absolutely corrup....are you kidding me? You've been living under a rock. Debate commision that keeps out any competition...media controlled by major corps that constantly reinforces the ridiculous system and wars...unlimited campaign donations that could potentially come from foreign countries (which aren't aloud to be seen by the people), a ridiculous circus act that people like to call the democratic and republican conventions, a military industrial complex more concerned about making money for the major corps, and candidates hand picked by the major financial institutions that everyone here hates so much. The whole system is corrupt......there is no difference between repubs and democrats....they're all pupets of the corps that now control them.

The founders didn't fight and die for democracy...they fought and died for a republic. One that wouldn't be restricted by a two party system that squeezes out any form of competition that might challenge the ridiculous status quo.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

Yeah...don't agree with that list at all...basically a pro-democrat infomercial.

You got your ideological blinders on.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Yeah, of course you know voter apathy and negligence got us here. So good luck with drum circles.

Oh, Noam Chomsky recommends voting for Obama. You know, just to stave off GOP-1% hell. Blinder stuff and stuff...

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

I like chomsky....but don't agree with his assessment. 3rd party is where "change" will come from. Obama/romney....some $hit just a different day.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Third parties will never be allowed until we replace exclusionary pols with inclusive pols in our government. A throwaway vote will go to Rs.

"I got mine, you're on your own," Romney; "we're all in this together," Obama. Considering your confusion, you might not find this helpful or funny: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/undecided-voter/1418227

"To prefer evil to good is not in human nature; and when a man is compelled to choose one of two evils, no one will choose the greater when he might have the less."-Plato

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

The lesser of two evils argument....no way....not going there again. This happens every election...its time people stood on their principles and demanded a real candidate.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Only we are talking teaspoon to landfill lesser evil. Big dif!

Perfection exists only in myths, lies and delusion. Politics is reality, not dreams or wishes.

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

"teaspoon to landfill"

Nah, not buying that one....pretty much the same candidate. Both are controlled by the major instituitions everyone hates here so much.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Nonsense!

And if your buying what you're cry'n, you are broke with nothing to show for it.

Sorry.

[-] 1 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

I don't believe the bumper sticker "lesser of 2 evils" non sense.

One of the 2 party candidates WILL become President. I will choose the best one on the issues I care about. The candidate who will move the country away from the conservative policies that have caused all our problems, and forward with policies that benefit the 99%.

Whoever gets in, We must protest for real progressive change. We cannot go to sleep after the election and ley another right wing wacko astro turf tea party effort drive the debate.

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

"One of the 2 party candidates will become president".....the longer people keep repeating that...the longer the self perpetuating idea will prove true.

[-] 0 points by VQkag2 (16478) 1 year ago

Well I would not encourage anyone to ignore reality.

If we eliminate money in politics, create real access for 3rd party in debates, make voting mandatory, we may get a valid 3rd party threat.

But I can't pretend a 3rd party has a chance. They don't the system is against them.

So let's agree to protest & pressure alll pols forthechange thatwill create real fair access for 3rd parties.

While we do that let's make sure we don't surrender our govt to the extreme right wing who serves only the 1%.

[-] -2 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

The forefathers and framers died after putting a REPUBLIC in place, but even they were skeptical that we "the people" would be able to keep it. Countless others died defending the Constitution and the Bill of Rights among other things. ALL of them died so that myself and hchc can still exercise our right to tell you to shut the hell up if and when we want to.

Systems are just that...systems. People are corrupt.

[-] 3 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

They died before during and after fighting the tyranny of the King and all his Loyalists and Royalists (today's Rs) for "the people's" democratic republic! From the beginning they worked on democracy and voting/elections, to ensure that the people, not tyrants, would rule. It was a new and noble experiment.

Even gravity is called "skeptically" a theory. But again, you always focus on the minutia to PETTIFOGG a nonexistent problem! Like global warming: another theory.

We have the freedom of speech, and all sorts good and bad people take advantage of it. But it is restricted in many cases. Yelling fire in theaters is restricted, but RW hate radio is free and ubiquitous. Porn is restricted, but Fox Lies spews endlessly misinforming masses of verified ignoramuses. Teabaggers marched, occupied and even carried guns openly with no police interference whatsoever; but OWS protesters met riot police and Swat teams armed to the teeth and with armored tanks, getting assaulted and jailed for exercising their freedom of speech rights.

So yes, BR, you are free to snipe, pettifog, and recriminate concerned Americans trying to undo the tyranny of the 1% over the 99%. But it establishes you as a most distasteful RW hack. So just understand how loathsome and, you said it, "corrupt" you portray yourself, and stick around, you make great training fodder for new politicos!

[-] 0 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

They did not work on democracy....they worked on a republic....very different.

Fox lies i completely agree.....but your MSNBC is just as bad...so is CNN. Its on both sides of the coin...but people like you have been stuck in their ideological mindset for years and don't allow the obviousness of what is happening right before your eyes to open your mind to your own sides BS.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

In fact, the American Revolution was not just a movement for national independence from Great Britain; it was also a movement for the democratization of American society and politics, The 1765 right to Vote in American Colonies election experiment.

There are no real left wing networks or news media (of any significance) out there. MSNBC and CNN are false equivalencies (unless you mean they mostly lean right) to Fox Lies, MSM and RW hate speech radio, which is a national embarrassment and bairs culpability for domestic terrorism attacks, killings and assassinations. Nothing on the left compares to that FUCKING SHIT!

[-] -1 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

Republic...not democracy.

It is debateable whether Fox is worse than MSNBC....i tend to agree they do feed more BS....but to get in a argument over which one tells more lies? Kind of ridiculous. The important point is that they both feed BS to fuel their partisan agenda's.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Democratic Republic!

No parity or equivalency exists whatsoever.

I know you righties want that so desperately for there to be, so that the very few of you with a conscience can sleep at night. But it's just not there. Don't believe me, try http://factcheck.org/, or http://mediamatters.org/ or http://tvnewslies.org/tvnl/

It's like Romney and Obama ~ no fucking comparison.

[-] 1 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

Romney and obama are the same person...what are you smoking?

I'm not a "righty".....im a commonsenseocrat.....you on the other hand are definitely a lefty. To suggest that MSNBC provides honest news....give me a break. Im well aware fox is full of $hit.....but i dont have the blinders on for my ideology like you do.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

"I got mine, you're on your own," Romney; "we're all in this together," Obama. Considering your confusion, you might not find this helpful or funny: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/undecided-voter/1418227

Oh well

[-] 1 points by john23 (-272) 1 year ago

yeah ive seen that vid...hilarious.

Unfortunately in reality that seems more like Americans in general.....not just the undecideds.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

See Idiocracy.

[-] -3 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

Sadly the only one exposing themselves as a distasteful hack is you. And the "old politicos" here will chew you up and spit you out.

[-] 3 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

There you go again... Recrimination, followed by a Non Sequitur threat. Don't lose it, you're a posting (large type) textbook of RW slime tactics.

[+] -5 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

"How fucking dare you!" Masses of verified ignoramuses, most distasteful, loathsome, corrupt... right wing... training fodder... hate.

This is from a "Democrat" to a woman; this is the party of women?

Well, it's certainly not the party of men, is it?

[-] 1 points by jorae (1) from Bend, OR 1 year ago

A representative is voted on. He does not go there unless what he says is what the people...one by one...want. We have two parties, and it has come to the point, if one says white, the other declares it is clearly black. The party that has chosen to make sure Mr. Obama is a one time president has take to represent the NRA, Banks, Stock Markets and the Libertarian Party. Say as many lies as you can to get in...they pledge to Norquist. We didn't have an industrial nation back in 1776...we had the Federalist who were the banks and finished goods, and we have the Democratic-Repubicans...who owned farms, abd worked with their hands. We still have two groups, with different names...The old Federalist are the Republicans...and the working folks are the Democrats. It doesn't matter if we are a democratic voting unit that sends one person, or if we all had to each vote on each issue. We don't do it, because it would be impossible. So it is a mute, stupid point. What we have learned, that when the farms were sold and the working folks came to the cities to do the labor for the manufactures, we gave up our safety nets of a soild base. Now we know, Capitalism cannot just be the bankers side, the labor side has to have the safety nets.

[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

"The old Federalists are the Republicans...and the working folks are the Democrats."

Really? You got statistics to back up that assumption? Even if every single person in the richest 1%, or 10% were/are Republican (and they are not) where are the other 30-40% of the population that are registered Republicans? If they aren't in the richest 10%-then they can't be "banks and finished goods" aka Federalists can they?

Since a popular argument here is that "the poor" seem to vote for people who don't do what is in their best interest-according to your argument that would make them Democrats voting for Republicans.

You make no sense newbie.

[-] -3 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

Yes, but that's because they perceive of a marriage that favors them economically.

[-] -2 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

You seem to think one of two things 1) that there is no such thing as people who voted for Obama in 2008 who are disappointed with his administration or 2) criticizing people's choices in the past is the best way to get them to choose differently in the future.

[-] 3 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

No, I'm saying there is a correlation with mischievous R strategy and incessant dubiously conceived whining here. Don't you?

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

I honestly don't think there is any coordinated effort by the Republicans to infiltrate this OWS website. Some people fucking with you? Sure. That is about it though.

I mean think about it. Everyone who frequents this site is either going to vote for Obama, vote for a 3rd party, or not vote at all. And everyone is pretty set in their ways and far from the elusive "undecided voter." Why would Republicans waste their time and effort to get nothing in return? It would be like Obama campaigning at an Aryan Nation meeting - a complete waste of time.

The same thing can be said about all the Obama lovers who preach on this site. You aren't changing any minds.

[-] 3 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

There were infiltrators, agent provocateurs, in the OWS protests.

Do you know how the right operates? They have rightie summer camps and seminars. They down vote liberal books on Amazon. They come here to cause trouble. On other boards they censor you, just for having a different POV. Are they lame, petty, ineffective and crazy, sure! The right is crazy! But it doesn't stop them, it encourages them ("don't feed the trolls"). Who among us on the left goes on their sites to cause trouble?

Just citing the similarities between the two very similar endeavors: the mischievous R campaign ads strategy and the incessant dubiously conceived BO bashers here. Not even curious?

[-] 0 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

That is at the protests, not on some internet message board.

And I am sure there are liberals that go on Tea Party or other Republican sites just to fuck with people to get a rise. It goes both ways. You are extremely naive and almost hard to take seriously if you believe otherwise.

That is exactly why you see Obama get bashed on an OWS site - because the most informed members of Occupy know that the top .01% fund him just as they do Romney.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Nope, they're here, too. Aren't you?

Nope, Libs have no interest in RW hate vomit.

FALSE EQUIVALENCY is going to be the right's middle name.

What the politically disgruntled are really having trouble with is the shamefully decrepit state of our political system caused by OUR neglect and Big$ exploitation. Fortunately, our forefathers made this system with the strongest, most resilient substance known to man: democracy! Just add Votes and watch it kick the Big$ and GOP bastards out of our government, and start addressing OUR wants and needs!

[-] 1 points by Mooks (1985) 1 year ago

Except that the people we vote for are funded by the Big$. Even a dog knows not to bite the hand that feeds it. Our politicians are at least that smart too.

I am most likely going to be voting for Jill Stein. She has not shot of winning but I will just feel much better voting for someone that is not backed by Big$.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

And what does that money buy? Votes! We don't show up so Big$ does. Until third parties are given equal opportunity, a vote for one is a vote for Rs.

"I got mine, you're on your own," Romney; "we're all in this together," Obama: time to decide. You might find this helpful: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/undecided-voter/1418227

[-] -1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 1 year ago

Dude seriously come on infiltrators of the OWS was done mostly by cops and anarchist that used OWS as a place to start violence. here were lucky we only have a few conservative trolls but we do have someone represented from each group no doubt.

Censored really how so?

Also the hacking group know as Anonymous is responsible for most of the hacking done around the web there numbers are in the hundred of thousands and when they dont like something they destroy it.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Yes, cops are renowned lefties and everyone in a black hoody is always a card carrying anarchist.

"Censored really how so?" Really? Is this whole Forum, Board, Chat Room thing new to you? Political boards have been prevalent since about the 90s (this is the newest and greenest one I know of). Posters can be censored (frozen, kicked out, banned, etc) by administrators and/or other posters. What don't you understand "dude"?

Anonymous goes after big bad dogs, not piddly boards or forums like this.

[-] 0 points by DanielBarton (1345) 1 year ago

I wasn't talking about left and right when it comes to the actual protest

No i've been doing forums for a long time my man to complain about conservative people trolling you on here isnt as major of an issue. so what that they make fun of you all that mean dont go their forums and you wont get pissed off. Im kinda just telling you to grow up and stop caring of what people think because life is too short to bitch about everyone

Plus this forum isnt a real representative of what OWS is most people here don't go to the protest

Really? Anon goes after anyone they want from single people to mass amount

[+] -5 points by yobstreet (-575) 1 year ago

This isn't really true; Rightist sites this past year have been actively targeted and infected; the intent is obvious - to shut down political discourse and dissent entirely. So much for a free Internet.

[-] 2 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

Infiltrators in OWS protests, and here.

I'd like to see proof of lefties "actively targeting and infecting rightist sites." I'll go out on a limb and call that BS. We lefties like fact checking, cuz we like facts, they have a natural liberal bias.

[+] -4 points by BetsyRoss (-744) 1 year ago

Sure...because only Republicans can be dubious and whiny....right?

[-] 3 points by WSmith (5271) from Cornelius, OR 1 year ago

There you go again... Strawman, no one said they were only Rs. But only Rs are using these ads.