Forum Post: Occupy Congress or Armed Revolution! You Decide...
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 5, 2011, 8:26 a.m. EST by fwankie123
(490)
from Immokalee, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
"Occupy Congress!"
To affect Real and DRAMATIC change we must eventually take over the levers of political power by putting together a slate of candidates that are honest people drawn from the occupy movement's ranks and elect a lot of them to Congress.
The first order of business is to take big money out of federal politics.
Pass the Fair Elections Now Act (S. 750 and H.R. 1404). A law where political candidates for federal office would raise a large number of small contributions from their communities in order to qualify for Fair Elections funding. Contributions are limited to $100.00. Strictly voluntary by the candidate to avoid legal issues.
Require new FCC regulations granting 100% FREE TV air time to all federal candidates who obtain sufficient petition signatures and/or votes to get on the ballot and participate in the primaries and/or electoral process.
End Political Corruption - End the "revolving door" of politicians and their staffs from ever becoming becoming lobbyists and prohibit all federal public employees, officers, officials from ever being employed by any corporation, individual or business that they specifically regulated while in office.
Clean Up Wall St. - Break up the biggest banks. Reenact Glass-Steagall. Abolish credit default swaps. Derivatives must be traded on transparent exchanges. Ban "flash" trading. Tax all Wall St. financial transactions at 1%. Damp down speculation and raise $400 billion a year.
Create Jobs - A ten-year federal program that involves a New Works Progress Administration (WPA) and Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) to create millions of jobs rebuilding America that includes infrastructure banks run by engineers, not politicians to extricate ourselves from the Great Recession now and increase productivity later.
Create A Fair Federal Tax Code - The marginal tax rate ought to be raised to 50 percent on income between $500,000 and $5 million, 60 percent on income between $5 million and $15 million, and 70 percent on income over $15 million. There should be a 2 percent annual surtax on all fortunes over $7 million. The estate tax should be 55 percent and kicks in after $5 million. Capital gains should be taxed at 35 percent. End the home mortgage deduction on first homes over $1 million. End the home mortgage deduction on all second homes. Corporations should be taxed by a variable amount based on the percentage of their payroll going to US workers. A small business employing 100% US workers should be taxed somewhere between 15-20% while a company that has completely shifted its production overseas should be in the 50% range. Eliminate corporate loopholes, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies, end offshore tax haven abuse. Expatriation of capital should be subject to a maximum tax-rate penalty with violation considered a felony act.
Invest In Education - Begin with the federal government paying tuition and fees for all students, part and full time, who are enrolled in two-year public institutions in the United States.
Make Health Care Affordable And Accessible To All - Medicare For All. Allow Medicare to purchase drugs directly. Give the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MEDPAC) more authority to drive down medical costs. End fee-for-service in medical care.
End The Wars - Reduce the military budget by half ($275 billion).
End The Police State - Repeal the Patriot Act
Clean The Air - EPA to STRICTLY enforce the Clean Air Act.
we need a constitutional amendment to seperate money from the political process and ban lobbying at all levels.
I too believe that the lobbyists for the very wealthy and powerful have unfairly influenced our lawmakers to distort our laws to be strongly biased towards self interest rather than the good of the people as they are duty bound to do. We must get rid of privately financed campaigns; this is where the lobbyists extract promises from the candidates to skew things to benefit special interests.
you are right
i do agree very much
i like it
Best list of goals I've seen yet. Comprehensive but not so complicated you couldn't tick of points by memory. Moderate enough to ensure broad support. Bookmarking this to pass on when the topic of goals comes up. :)
P.S. You are the best bumper I have ever seen :) I was almost disappointed to scroll down and see all the input from others .... the thought of a whole thread of you cheerily talking to yourself, giving your ideas the thumbs up, and heartily agreeing with your thumbs ups, made me smile.
thank you
[Removed]
i'm the best bumper in the business
alright
i disagree
no. we don't
sounds good if you can do it
no, we don't
my route might be easier to accomplish
we need the movement to grow
3/4 of the states? more than half run by repubs
you would nee 2 sep amendments. people have a right to petition their govt. go after the money
I meant paid lobbiest. Sorry about the confusion. Anyone should be able to talk to a Congressmen about and issue at their local office. You shouldn't be allowed to make a living that way.
my plan is easier to accomplish. OWS needs to eventually focus on a single issue and put it atop the political agenda for 2012 - campaign finance reform. once you start electing people that have voluntarily taken a max. donation of $100.00 and are not tied to special interests, you will begin to get a more responsive govt that will actually carry out the will of the people
+1 I 100% agree with you. This is the most important issue if we want a representative government. Unfortunately, I don't know if our representatives have the courage to pass them.
we have to force them. there is power in numbers. its 99 to 1
"Occupy Congress!" Put together a slate of candidates that are honest people drawn from the occupy movement's ranks and elect them to Congress. The first order of business is to take big money out of federal politics.
its a pipe dream but anything could happen
vote out all incumbents whether they are republicrat or republicrat.
end career politicians
i could not agree more
i totally understand
i agree
clean the deck!
Ambitious but much of it could be done, it would require every occupy member across the country to get out and vote. Put together a slate of candidates, honest people drawn from the movement's ranks and elect them to congress. If all you're going to do with these goals is protest and wait for some corrupt official to do something for us, then we're all wasting our time.
thanks for the input
we cannot wait
The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the mivement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keep the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction. The fact is the President has given specific instructions to the Capitol Police that if the White House is Occupied, that they are to stand down, and not steal Tents and Generators. Yet OWS in it's corrupt secret meetings are trying to continue to persuade the ranks they are doing the right thing for now...WRONG.. It is time to demand full support for the "Occupy the White House" Movement. It is time to remind the President that the White House is the peoples house!! He serves at our pleasure. OWH Now!!! Promote the full Occupation of the White House" now!! Don't be fooled by OWS/DNC infiltrators. OWH Now!!! Today!! Take back the peoples house and demand real change...
i say "Occupy Congress"
YES! To the MAX! Occupy every inch, every nook, every cranny, encounter every person and ask if they are STAFF and for whom, or LOBBY and, again, for whom? Ask them the typical question a traveler to India hears: "Why are you here? What is your purpose?"
Cheers, IAOProfessor
own it!
Occupy the White House is more direct and symbolic. It also draws more world-wide attention.. Indeed, Actually the movement should occupt both, and let the President know that THis is the peoples House, He resides there at the pleasure of the people. Our demands must be articulated to the President who represents all people and BOTH parties...Occupy The White House now!!
get over it
What is your point? As you admit, the President is aware, and seeminly favorable. Do you think the White House has no other activity than to entertain mobs of people who have better places to deliver a message ALREADY DELIVERED?! Or is "occupy" a third dimensional chess game idea with you? Maybe you are COINTELPRO seeking to create conflict instead of constructive change?
Well, for one thing..They don't steal your tents and generators in DC. And the fact is, The correct place to occupy is not Wall St. It's the White House. No3D chess game. Get out of NYC and move all legit ops to OWH. Simple if your really for the cause. If however, you are a cowardly supporter of the Current White House and Congress, then stay where you are til they throw you out or freeze you out before Thanksgiving. I'll be here (outside the White House) when and if you get here..Peace Out!!
obama is part of the problem. not the solution
move south for the winter
good basic list. campaign finance and corporate personhood are top priorities. government reinvented as public service and service to the public, not service to the private sector... which by all means, should continue in the capitalist way, because yes, private enterprise is so far the best system to organize the economic activity.
can you separate the private sector from the public? The corner store run by your neighbor, is it belong to the public or the private sector?
yes you can
I am not so sure
one pays taxes and the other receives taxes
really important question. i think the 2 have been falsely separated (mostly by Republicans). even the most successful private sector businessmen/women Depend upon a social structure in which to grow and operate their businesses. they use the roads, electric grids, and... not the least... an educated workforce primarily produced by public (tax-payer financed) schools. the corner store may indeed belong to a private property owner and business person, but the sewer and the actual corner as well as the organization of the society in which that neighborhood exists... all connected.
sounds good
well thanks.
your welcome
We will not get campaign finance reform while the politicians who benefit from the status quo remain in office.
The solution is to use new ways to neutralize Wall Street's billions. Decide for yourself to stop being a part of the corrupt two party slavery system.
Vote strategically.
Use the Write-In slot to by-pass the ballot access rules that make it impossible to participate within the two party structure.
Write-In is FREE.
Write-In is EASY.
While I am an Independent by choice I will strategically register as a Democrat in the primary so that I can Write-In Elizabeth Warren for president. Wall Street hates and fears Warren. Writing-in Elizabeth Warren sends a clear message to the parties and to Wall Street that WE THE PEOPLE want real change and an end to Wall Street corruption.
We have the power now to neutralize Wall Street's $billions$. Its free & easy.
Find people who you trust in your community and organize a Write-In campaign for Congress.
SCREW THE TWO PARTY CORRUPTION!!!!
Write in is too disorganized, co-opt an existing party with your own candidates. Forget the presidency, get the house. A block there can eventually control the speaker and the nation's agenda.
I agree with you about the Congress versus the presidency. I hope the hell Elizabeth Warren gets into the senate. I will still Write-in Elizabeth Warren for president as a protest against the Democrats for not giving us a contested presidential race and against Wall Street that hates and fears Warren.
I disagree about Write-In. Write -In is the most immediate way to take back the electoral process in spite of the billions of duopoly dollars that Wall Street gives to the two dominance parties.
And I disagree, because of the level of corruption, that an existing major party can b co-opted. Not any decade soon anyway.
The only immediate solution is to by-pass the corruption altogether. Abandon the party system that is bought and paid for by Wall Street.
Impose a new system within the existing structure that is truly by, of and for the people.
Love to see a better system, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. OWS had thousands today in the streets, but New York has millions of people. Still a lot that are just watching or don't care enough yet.
That's something else about getting people from say the General Assemblies to run for congress. People are comfortable with what they know, they know the system we have now. It would prove national support and force OWS to be taken seriously.
The Independents are the fastest growing part of the electoral population for the past twenty years. That does not imply people comfortable with the status quo system.
I think that the only thing that keeps people within the two party structure is fear imposed by the parties and a lack of articulated alternatives.
The fear can be overcome by people recognizing that you don't have to be part of the winning herd to be an effective member of the electorate. If enough people vote for issues and people outside the two party corruption the parties see those votes and try to find ways to "win" those votes in the future. After all, you don't win if you give in to one of the parties and vote for someone who does not reflect or respect your social justice values just so you can be part of a "winning" herd.
The alternatives are what I am focusing on and offering people.
jen, you are smart
jen - you're smart
Warren For President
its a start, but still some major problems:
More strict on #4. Expatriation of capital should be subject to maximum tax-rate penalty, with violation considered a felony act.
In addition, charitable donations by citizens and corporations to recipients outside the US should NOT be tax free.
Corporations should be taxed not at a steady 35% by a variable amount based on the percentage of payroll going to US workers. A small business employing 100% US workers should be taxed somewhere between 15-20% while a company that has completely shifted its production overseas should be in the 50% range.
Military personell returning to the work force from a scaled down military budget should be allowed to join a public infracture army to build roads, bridges, levies, factories, etc.
The school system needs to be completely focussed on meaningful skill development before tuitions are to be subsidized - otherwise we are just pissing money away.
end tenure for k-12 teachers, end LIFO, select future teachers from the top 20% of students at universities instead of the bottom 20%
take care of the military personnel
school system more focused on math and science - STEM
Exactly. We need engineers. That's the future. Math and Science degrees should be paid for by the state for any student showing reasonable aptitude in that area. Other degrees....not so much.
We need to pay math and science teachers on a higher scale than other teachers as well - to keep some talent in the systems.
Many other programs and degrees are worthless and should get nothing.
lots more engineers
i like the idea
you're right about focus
look up STEM program
I will.
good
Outstanding idea about variable corporate tax based on % of labor force is in the US! Excellent suggestion!!
i like the idea ,too!
The variable rate on corporate tax by how much of payroll is in the U.S. - that's a really interesting idea.
very good
i like the idea, too
i put it in my program
I haven't consider each of your suggestions in great detail, but I think there are some very good ideas floating around amont them. Thank you.
keep reading
please keep reading
don't stop reading
i borrowed some of your ideas
Awesome. That's why we're here.
thanks
Ok, so I think I'm liking it.
Nice start.
it is only the beginning
thanks
it's an excellent start!!
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
i already signed
i like the single idea concept
i like the single idea concept
Wonderful fwankie123!
Love the 'Tax all financial transactions'!
10 looks good, and doable. Begging for jobs is silly, but demanding education is something that can put the unemployed to task today.
The Medicare proposal should be to have the Department of Defense declare war on cancer.
The federal government thru HUD should buy some empty homes and house the homeless. No one can say it's expensive to house the homeless now.
it is a wonderful list!
Unless we stop lobbying we have a National Security Issue!!!!
Whats going to stop the Chinese from buying out our Politicians? Israel already has!
Heres another example, please check it out.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/dear-col-gadhafi-ex-cia-arabist-gop-lobbyist-230132693.html
i understand
This is what we all want
zoom - you show high intelligence
Thank you!
We need to Occupy the Military and start protesting in front of military bases. Thisight attract active duty military people to join the 99% since they are under direct control of the 1%. Eventually, with enough of them joining we can turn the military on their masters and being to seize control of the country.
interesting but they are very brainwashed over there
Do we really need to tax rich people over 50%? Isn't that a little much? I agree we need to end the money factor in our politics and close tax loop holes, but that high of a tax is simply unfair and punishing people for their success. Why not just a 45% tax rate on anyone making mod than 1 million and a tax on transactions at 0.06%? That would raise considerable revenue and leave these people with the fruits of their labor. We can have tariffs that will encourage businesses to keep jobs in America and keep American businesses competitive. And cut defense spending in half? Maybe by a fourth, we need our military to watch countries like Iran, North Korea, or Russia, but we could we could more than make up for that by ending the war on drugs and legalizing marijuana. Another way is to end subsidies of all industries, especially oil and pharmacuticles. We also need to get tough on our aggressive mercantilistic "trade" partner, China. They have not been playing fair and we can influence trade organizations to put pressure on them. In addition to the Clean Air Act, we need a constitutional amendment that establishes concrete property rights which would include punishment for polluting someone's property.
they were taxed at 90% in the 50's and 60's
Yeah, I know but that doesn't make it right. We shouldn't be punishing these people for their success, but we can benefit off of it. If we have a strong economy and healthy people, we won't need to tax people that much and they can keep the fruits of their labor.
Sure occupy Congress but also occupy offending congressman's districts. Inform every person in their district that they are not doing their jobs and we will see where they are in 11 months at the voting booths.
i like it
I think income tax should be abolished completely in favor of a simple progressive sales tax:
1) Right now income tax is regressive, as the top 20 percent make 85% of the income in this country but pay only 80% of the taxes. Therefore, they are underpaying. (See: http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/2011/11/bushwhacked-by-the-bush-tax-cuts-for-the-rich ) That is because...
2) Income tax is ripe for abuse and for manipulating the economy by politicians. The rich pay disproportionately less of their income due to all their lobbyists working in special tax breaks.
3) Sales tax less ripe for abuse on all sides because the people who turn the money over to the government are not the people who make the money. They merely collect it. It is not so readily manipulated to every cause with special causes, as it must stay simple in order for retailers to quickly calculate and collect it.
4) Sales tax, contrary to popular arguments is as progressive as you want to make it. You can, just as an example, exclude sales tax on groceries, clothing priced at under $__ per article, medical treatments and drugs, home purchases of first homes and the first $1,000 of rent. That way, the poor can get access to all the essential basics of life without paying taxes. Those who want more expensive clothes can decide how much tax they want to pay by how many clothes they buy. It's very progressive and very easy to collect. There are all kinds of ways you can set up a simple tax structure for merchants to employ and make it as progressive as you want. You can also place a surtax on luxury items if you feel the need to tax the rich even more.
--Knave Dave (the man of true alternative thinking ; ) http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
that;s crazy
But it's as progressive as you want to make it. Politicians hate sales tax as a replacement for income tax because it gives them far fewer ways to manipulate the economy, so they have preached the lie that it is regressive. Some people have bought that lie like religion -- without questioning it. It is, in fact, as progressive as you WANT to make it.
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
Has everyone e-mailed their US reps and senators to find out where they stand on the Fair Elections Now Act and re-enacting the Glass-Steagall Act? Yes, there are a lot of issues, but these two, perhaps, must be the baby steps to gaining the power back to the people.
The first order of business is to take big money out of federal politics.
Pass the Fair Elections Now Act (S. 750 and H.R. 1404). A law where political candidates for federal office would raise a large number of small contributions from their communities in order to qualify for Fair Elections funding. Contributions are limited to $100.00. Strictly voluntary by the candidate to avoid legal issues.
Require new FCC regulations granting 100% FREE TV air time to all federal candidates who obtain sufficient petition signatures and/or votes to get on the ballot and participate in the primaries and/or electoral process.
When you start electing people with no ties to special interests, you will begin to bring power back to the people
DC occupiers should take on K street lobbyists. The DC occupiers should register as lobbyists for the 99% and confront all members of the congress and report on their responses to the number one lobbying issue for 99%, getting corporate monies out of politics and replacing with complete public financing.
congress is real the power is
How about Occupy Main Street? We are as guilty as politicians. We have so many iPhones which cause serious pollution in China during production process. We consume so much energy which causes global warming. We build so many houses which causes deforestation in the world. We only care ourselves without consideration of our future generations (our own sons and daughters).
we are pigs, you're right, but the politicians are bigger pigs
small pigs fight big pigs? that sounds cool. but just wait a moment, why don't we make efforts to change ourselves back to human beings? I believe we can.
its unreasonable but i'll go with it
What we need is The New Common Sense. This is amazing and we need to add it to our tookbox pronto. We'd be stupid not to. http://pastebin.com/gm2UV08D
i have common sense
Ahhh but do you have enough to read that doc I linked? :)
Has it been a week that no one has read this post?
only a day
Who wants fwankie123 to be the leader of OWS?
i do
The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the mivement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keepMoncler Women Sale the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction.
get over the white house thing
Occupy Congress!
This is exactly what the Occupy core unified message should be! Very well written.
Its time for phase 2 of the Occupy movement. It was brilliant to begin this movement unstructured and with a huge amount of legitimate complaints and demands. But now we are at the turning point where we absolutely MUST take all of the messages and put them into the most important core message which is getting outside money out of our political system. Only after achieving this can all of those other issues be debated honestly without outside money corrupting the process.
I fear if Occupy does not do this soon and unify their message they will possibly let their window of opportunity slip away.
the time is now
i like this
i agree
i could not agree more
Focus!
Here is a compilation of current members of Congress who, in 1999, voted FOR the repeal of Glass-Steagall. These are the actual people who empowered Wall Street to crash the U.S. economy.
The Congress that Crashed America http://home.ptd.net/~aahpat/aandc/congcrash.html
You don't have to wait for the elections to pressure these creeps. Demand that they repent now by supporting H.R. 2451 The Glass-Steagall Restoration Act.
i like it
Yes there is a lot of ofal -
this will sound nasty- but i do believe it - demands with ALL or NONE,etc are the signs of a non-thinker; a sloganeer, a labeler
would you throw out Kucinich? Sanders? Biden?
i changed the title
This would be only the first step...All incumbents out! We also have to ensure we put another check on the legislative branch...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/72299569/A-Vision-for-a-New-Democracy
We can do better than this Plutocracy.
Congress cheats America by engaging in insider stock trading.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/11/13/congress_trading_stock_on_inside_information.html
that's true
This post needs to stay at the forefront of the forum list! It really should be the focus of OWS.
In order to get Fair Elections Act Now passed, we all need to contact our current reps and find out where they stand. If everyone on this forum did that, we might start to make progress---at least get that passed as a start! And then move forward.
you have high intelligence
Sign my petition to call for the resignation of a corrupt politician at http://takingbackamerica78.blogspot.com/2011/11/corrupt-politician-of-week.html
lets do it
gotta click the link
will do
Activism works - so lets get active 99%
http://occupywallst.org/forum/its-time-for-a-million-people-march-to-capitol-hil/
Activism works. Come on 99% lets get active.
http://occupywallst.org/article/victory-99-ohio/
Start doing something. Open read, sign and forward.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/housing-for-the-poor-please-sign-petition-and-forw/
Create sign and send petitions. The more inputs we have the better. http://occupywallst.org/forum/create-sign-and-send-petitions/
A site to submit issues have them collected, collated and submitted. www.lobbydemocracy.com
i am doing it here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzLIz27GqWs&feature=related
what is it?
FIRST CUT THE PURSE STRINGS
There are a huge number of great, well thought out, COMPLICATED ideas that will require a huge amount of "selling" and explanation" and will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple - that is popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
that 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons & have no personhood rights”
and
“money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)
If they could tie the left and right into a success -
WHY CAN'T WE??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.
it sounds good on paper but will be very difficult to achieve
Any of the issues at this forum requires three steps -
1 teach people about the issue
2 convince the people why your solution is best
3 get them to act (write congress)
WITH THIS ISSUE- STEPS 1 & 2 ARE DONE!
The problem and solution are both very simple.
The ABC poll showed 83% in favor of getting rid of CU
We are more then 2/3 at our goal!
If you want to help us - meet us
Nov12 6PM 60 Wall st NYC;
ok, will try
check out www.peoplescongress.org
ok, will do
je suis francais et l'espoire par l'exemple viendra des us montrez nous le chemin merci pour votre résistence
thanks a lot
christophe France
Oui, Oui
je suis francais et l'espoire par l'exemple viendra des us montrez nous le chemin merci pour votre résistence
thanks a lot
christophe France
Bah withe the politics. Occupy the foreclosures.
they are already doing that
en masse
Get Buddy Roemer on the Republican Debates!
i agree. get him on
although i don't agree with anything he says
Not true and not nearly comprehensive enough. Nothing short of a direct challenge to the very existence of corporations is adequate, which is exactly what OWS is doing. If there must be a demand let it be the seizure of all corporate assets and reorganizing them democratically from below in the interest of everyone rather than in the interest of a tiny, tiny group of shareholders.
you are revolutionary
Eschew labels. I didn't say I was for that. What I was addressing was exactly what it would take to curb corporate power in America. One can come to the conclusion that can only be accomplished by dismantling the corporations without necessarily advocating that course of action
wow!
just stop the money flowing from corps to politicians. that will curb corporate power in America
There are a huge number of great, well thought out, COMPLICATED ideas that will require a huge amount of "selling" and explanation" and will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple - that is popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
that 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons & have no personhood rights”
and
“money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just three months and eight days.)
If they could tie the left and right into a success -
WHY CAN'T WE??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.
5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
I feel that using the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.
need to be more specific
The Prohibition movement was a minority movement. It's capacity to maneuver and get a Constitutional Amendment passed despite the fact that it was always a minority movement is hardly a model for a movement that purports to be democratic and that wants to expand and extend democracy in our culture and society.
regardless of the "model" - it worked -
I am sad to see that you are adopting what seems to be prevalant here -
worshiping the "process" rather than achieving the goals that help everyone. If you were not a licenced MD and came across a man having a heart attack, would you give him cpr - or wait till the right process came along?
Seriously, if my "model" got rid of CU - would you care? I certainly dont advocate any crazy or violence but - I think someone once said - "keep your eyes on the prize" - not how it arrives.
In no way do I mention process. Indeed I think Naomi Klein made an extremely important point (which has tended to be viewed as a mere aside) when she called on the group not to fetishize process.
I think, legitimately, that the Declaration of the Occupation points out that our problems are so big and so comprehensive that they are not likely to be solved by any single demand or set of demands. What is needed is the organization of the 99% to completely transform the social system democratically from below. Most people don't agree with us. Indeed most Americans are hardly aware of our existence, which is why our main job has to be to organize them.
There is of course the question of what happens in the mean time. To that I would argue that are main job remains organizing the vast majority. The bigger we are the more we will affect the role of political debate in the corporate state itself even though it is not our state. If we can't organize and don't grow we are simply acknowledging that democratic change is impossible.
sadly, I think that approach will take so long, the first shipments of soylent green will arrive first. Third party effeorts have been in play for 200(?) years. When was the last successful one?
Think about what it means to occupy. The United States started to occupy Germany and Japan in 1945. That's 66 years ago and it's still there. It started to occupy Puerto Rico in 1898 and it's still there. That's an occupation. We haven't even really started to Occupy Wall Street yet, which is the very clearly stated goal of the movement. That's what it's titled after all.
The transition from feudalism to capitalism took nearly 1000 years. The transition from corporatism to true democracy may take as long. It may take years, decades, or lifetimes. I'm 68 years old and all I can say, in the words of Irving Howe's autobiography, the struggle for democracy is definitely steady work. Patience is a revolutionary virtue. Power to the people!
well old timer - i am only slightly younger - and i don't have the time to focus on long term. TP got control of the RP almost overnight ( using your time frame ) We can get rid of CU because we know 83% of Americans want to. I have at least 30 other goals - medicare for all - tax the rich etc etc but ALL will be possible IF WE GET RID OF CU first
and yes - the system was always corrupt - GREED is the natural state of all animals. Society CAN cantrol it - ask FDR & TR.
Whether or not any of the above is true or accurate from my perception of OWS it has absolutely nothing to do with OWS its goal or its purposes which, for better or for worse, I think most folks would agree if they spent more than 48 hours at an occupation.
the system was already corrupt before CU
here here
right on!
Campaign Finance Reform. Boom!
Agreed.
cool!
Yes, you are exactly correct, now and try and get these yahoos to buy into that, then to actually do something about it.
Good Luck.
a long road ahead
The first issue is that, just like the choice for federal funding now, nobody will make that choice because the rich and corporations will swamp them and, they won't get elected. Backing losing candidates, is a poor strategy for change.
these really are some great ideas if i say so myself
The corruption doesn't get its start at the federal level. It begins in the small cities and towns where the politician starts his career, trading off bits of his character for favors. By the time they make the move to congress or the senate they've sold so much of themselves there isn't much honest man left in side the politician.
you don't have to vote in career politicians
Exactly, we need to get people that share our ideals and have no political background to run for office. My comment though was in reference to the idea that all we needed to do was get the money out of federal elections. The pool is already poisoned at the local level, so getting money out of all politics or your idea of not voting for a career politician has to be considered.
federal politicians have the most power so they must be curtailed
Very true, they have the most advanced form of the corruption disease. I just see the carriers of that disease as the local politicians.
but, the federal politicians have the most power and and are not term limited
Then we need to stop sitting around protesting and actually find some good individuals that have not yet been corrupted and get them elected to make good changes. All politicians run around fund raising and selling out pieces of themselves along the way, the higher up they go the less honest person there is left.
citizen politicians
Taxation needs to be fair to all, not progressively unfair. Either a flat tax with no deductions or a consumption tax bundled with the abolishment of the current tax code an a big reduction of the IRS.
How in the world is that "fair?" The bottom 50% of Americans now only control a meager 2% of the nation's wealth. The top 10% now control a staggering 70% of the entire nation's wealth. The flat tax is another boon for the wealthy. They get a lower tax rate and the bottom gets a huge tax increase. The reason why the bottom does pay anything is because they have no money! They make so little and all of the bottom 50% only have 2% of the nation's wealth combined together!
So it is fair for the people who have redistributed the middle class wealth into the hands of the few to get huge tax breaks while the hurting bottom gets a huge tax increase?
Since 1980 middle class wages have stagnated while executive wages have ballooned. Executive pay has gone up 265% while the middle class has worked harder and harder and seen no pay increase. Middle class wages were replaced with easy credit loans. Instead of paying the middle class for the fruits of their labor, corporations learned that they could loan them the money instead -- brilliant. So middle class wages stagnated and every corporation suddenly became a lender.
Every corporation started loaning the middle class easy credit to buy everything -- tvs, furniture, flooring, homes, etc. So the middle class was not paid enough to buy their products, no problem we will loan them the money. Middle class savings disappeared and debt ballooned.
And because wages were replaced with easy credit, the few at the top paid themselves all of the fruits of the workers' labor and executive salaries ballooned up 265%.
In the 1950's, the highest marginal tax was 90% if you made over $2 million in today's dollars. In the 1970's it dropped to 70%, 1980's 49%, 1990's 36%, and 2000's it dropped to a meager 36%. And taxes on capital gains from the stock market -- where the wealthy make most of their money -- dropped to a meager 12%!
Cutting taxes on the wealthy only allowed them to redistribute the middle class wealth into the hands of the few at the top. When there no longer wasn't any high marginal tax disincentive to pay all of the corporate profits at the top, executive salaries ballooned and middle class salaries stagnated. There is only so much corporate profit pie and when you pay most of it to the few at the top there is less to pay the workers.
Here is a chart on how our wealth was redistributed into the hands of the few over the last 30 years: http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1
Here is the great divergence in middle class pay and executive pay from the Wall street Journal: THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
Here is a video that explains what happened to the middle class -- you should watch this and then comment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HTkEBIoxBA
you are doing good work
Thank you! I am trying. Not sure if the information is getting out there. Sometimes I really feel hopeless because of all of the misinformation out there, but I just try to keep plugging away.
keep working. awareness is the first step to change
I think this is a truly valid fight. We need many reforms such as campaign finance that our representatives do not have the courage to fight for. Support the rights of everyday citizens to introduce federal legislation through ballot initiatives! We can make the reforms we need now! https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/use-petition-site-allow-citizens-introduce-federal-legislation/976hF353?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
you have a point
"The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation." This statement is taken from the popular Forum site with a list of "ideas" This statement perfectly addresses why we need to Occupy the White House now! Some of these ideas are good, some miss the point, yet they are a coherent start.. But the Occupation does not need specifics handed down from the so-called "General Council" in order to do what is so specifically clear in the above statement>.. I quote it again: "The purpose of our direct-action program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation." The time is today!! Occupy the White House. Tell the President, this is the peoples house. Tell Congress< they all work for us. OWH begins today at 2:00..See you at the Gates!!!
ok my barbarian brother
I think there are some good ideas here, but I wish to address your first point; I agree that's it essential to get as much money out of politics as possible. I do not think it's possible as an absolute for many reasons, human nature, complexity among them.
But I think that campagin finance reform is only half of the issue. As long as patronage is the primary motivating factor for most politicians, decisions will still be made based on what will enrich these politicians and those who support them. Campaign finance reform does not touch this. How do you do it? I wish I knew.
And, we should ask ourselves, why do we allow Congress to live like kings? Does your employer pay you a six figure salary AND give you premium pension/health care benefits AND pay for all of your meals AND pay for you to travel back and forth to work and give you an office furniture allowance, just to name a few perks?
it should be an honor and a privilege to work there. minimum wage
a 6 figure salary and they spend a third of their time hustling for money
Dismantle corporations. Seize their assets. Reorganize them in the interest of everyone rather than a tiny group of share holders. Until then nothing will change.
break up the big banks that are strangling the nation
Demand resignations of all government officials connected to the 50 trillion dollar worldwide bailout of the richest people,banks,and companies,with bonuses for the very people that bankrupted the world economy..Printing trillions,backed by no goods or services,and not even knowing where all that money went..Stick the hardworking people with the bill at 5% interest..High Treason is the charge.. Serve warrants for arrest on House of Rothschild,Rockefeller,Bush1,2 and all known accomplices,Seize their assets,estimated 500 trillion dollars of hoarded wealth,Distribute to all people of the world,the ones these transnationals have oppressed for generations, the "Little People" just get in the way..We will then move forward,stimulate the economy,become energy and lifestyle sustainable with solar wind,gardens..
it would be easier to follow my program. once you start electing politicians that have voluntarily taken a max donation of $100.00 and are not tied to special interests, you will begin to get a more responsive govt that will actually carry out the will of the people
as long as the rats control it the rats will eat you..
that's why you have to be a powerful force for change - 99 to 1 good odds
sounds good fwankie
thanks, ray
How about this: Right now there is only one US Rep. per 720,000 people. It's no wonder they don't listen to the people anymore. There is nothing in the Constitution that says it has to be that high. If we reduce that number, the Reps will be closer to the people and their increased number will be much harder for the lobbyists to corrupt. And it will scare the shit out of them.
More elected officials won't solve the problem. We need to stop the lobbyists from bribing our elected officials to do their bidding. We need publicly financed campaigns so the elected officials are beholding to the public rather than to the special interests of the rich and powerful.
the special interests have unlimited funds. your proposal just means they have more people to corrupt. doesn't solve anything
I just wonder if 720,000 people for Rep. is good for Democracy.
what about senators? - its even worse
Much worse. It would be bad enough if just 50 Senators from the smallest population states were able to block legislation, but this 60 vote rule is not in the Constitution and archaic.
eliminate filibuster
I agree. Increasing the number of corruptables does nothing! We must elliminate the ability to corrupt! Outlaw lobbyist! These are the Enablers! The middlemen between the corporations and our supposed representatives!
oulawing lobbyist violates the costitution. its the money monkey coming in from everywhere
How? Each individual in this country has the right to write and correspond with representatives no one would argue against that concept.
Personhood gives them the right to not only correspond on their own behalf but for the actions of a group as well. How will their constitutional rights be violated if they still have the right of individual contact?
Corporations and special interest are nothing more than individuals with agendas focusing those efforts and utilizing the power granted to a lobby to enact their desires. Personhood needs to be revoked and lobbying needs to be outlawed and removed from the political process.
sounds complicated. people petitioning their government are "nothing more than individuals with agendas focusing those efforts and utilizing the power granted to enact their desires."
I vote Yes on 1-5. #6 I don't like. People should take responsibility for where they are in life. No freebee's. #7 I doubt it is that simple. #8 No thanks, my mother in law was on medicare and died because she could not get proper health care. #9 Yeah, this one sounds good. #10 No, gives federal government too much control. There has to be a better way to do this.
what is the better way to do it?
I dont know. Maybe at the state level, like California did. But now they are broke. Shoot, everybody is broke. Maybe.. in addition to the current system, we have a collective education welfare system where everybody is required to give either money or time to their local public university. Yeah, maybe allow people to pay volunteer time instead if taxes. The wealthy and successful people of the world can teach a class as an alternative to higher taxes, the choice can be up to them. :)
everyone is broke except the 1%
until you stabilize the housing market, there will be no economic recovery
The housing market will stabilize itself, over time. Many people I know are taking money out of the stock market and investing in real estate. They are making more money. We got ourselves into this mess and I believe we can get ourselves out.
housing prices are still declining nationally. not a good time to be investing in real estste
If people can't buy houses, (including myself), they will be forced to rent. It is steady income for an investor.
i thought you said they were making money
Yes. The investors I know are making more money buying real estate and renting it out than they are in the stock market, in areas where the market has already hit bottom. (I am not talking about millionaires here.. just people trying to figure out where they should put the retirement money they have saved up.) Foreclosure is the equilibrating force, because it requires that the bank take a loss (which they promptly write off, I am sure). Housing value is lowered (which is good, because they were over inflated in the first place). Those who can still qualify for a mortgage can now purchase a property for a reasonable price. The market gets reset.
as long as buyers put down 20% which they don't have
exactly. since there are not many buyers, there are lots and lots of renters.
while they are renting, the housing prices are still going down
In some areas, perhaps. Other areas not so much. Areas that had the biggest swing upwards (like las vegas.. ) crashed really hard, really fast. That place is crawling with investors now. Got to love those baby boomers... they all want to retire in vegas. Heh, vegas. I think my generation is more likely to retire in the mountains.
its a mixed bag out there, no doubt
If so, then why aren't more people commenting on this topic? Look at how many comments are on other issues. So and so is a troll, etc.
This is a great post. I hope it stays at the forefront with thousands of comments!
thanks again
thanks
This is in essence, I think, our undisputed agenda.
thanks again
thanks
I agree. I hope this post gets more comments.
thanks
Thank You! I think the question now is, how do we get there.
it's not just the banks, its the govt that changed the laws that allowed the banks to get away with murder. the banks got the laws changed by bribing the govt with lots of money. so, the OWS movement will eventually need to focus in on the real culprits and make campaign finance reform the key issue in 2012
We must do that and much more if humanitry is to stand a chance.
once you start electing people that have voluntarily taken a max donation of $100.00 and are not tied to special interests, you will begin to get a more responsive govt that will actually carry out the will of the people
Agreed.
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I think the first 2 and last one are the most feasible. I say this because they will unite the country rather than divide.
thanks
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taxing people making $500k at 50% at the federal level will decimate the economy. ride around an industrial park, look at the executives at these small companies in your area, look who they hire at their companies, look who they hire to do work in their private lives...hammering these people when they still have to pay state income tax, probably pay high property taxes becuase their houses are big, and pay other taxes at a higher rate at the local level than most everyone else would only make the middle class suffer more who need these people to utiliize and purchase products and services from businesses that need wealhtier people to keep them afloat...people need to understand that the rich guy in your neighborhood, not the mega millionaires, put a lot of money into the community
tell them to get smaller houses
you're a genius...put those talents to good use
To begin with, there are already groups mobilizing to enact change. Anyone who has not already signed the following petitions, please do so:
To get money out of politics: http://www.getmoneyout.com
To repeal corporate "personhood": http://movetoamend.org
To bypass the two-party system, visit: www.americanselect.org
And of you're really serious and go here: http://moveyourmoneyproject.org/
As a reward, you can check out this HOT video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k5kHACjrdEY
thanks
Campaign Finance Reform. Boom!
All of the successful protest movements of the 20th century in the U.S. had a very clear and concise goal. The civil rights movement had integration. The counter culture movement of the 60's wanted to end the Vietnam War. The Women's Suffrage movement wanted women to vote. The Anti-Saloon league wanted prohibition of alcohol.
Wayne Wheeler of the Anti-Saloon league, was known for insisting on a very clear and singular goal to the exclusion of all else, a constitutional amendment prohibiting the sale of alcohol. His model for political influence through demonstration has been replicated over, and again. The prohibition movement might have been misguided, but no one could argue that it wasn't successful.
Could it be, that it is time for OWS to focus? I believe many more people would become active, if a singular goal could be devised.
Campaign Finance Reform!
Many Americans could line up behind getting the big money out of politics, I think.
What I am saying is that, imho, OWS needs a clear goal, complete with a kick ass sound bite! Americans only respond to sound bites. We need to get all public school on their arses.
Any good sound bite is concise, crunchy, and tastes good with ketchup. “BUY BACK the VOTE.”
you're talking my game. campaign finance reform is the issue of our time but it is not sexy
I know. Campaign Finance Reform isn't divisive enough to get much attention, but I think it is the key.
Occupy Congress!
we need something sexy
I know, that is why I am trying to give campaign finance reform a crunchy sound bite. Buy Back the Vote!
but, we're not buying. won't work
It takes persistence. If we keep trying, the issue will become popular. There is a vacuum of ideas here at OWS. That vacuum is trying to be filled. If one is persistent enough, the idea will stick.
the issue is popular but the term CFR is boring. we need to replace the term CFR with a sexy term
I know, right? I think at this stage persistence is the key, right now. The message can be focused if enough of us demand it.
right on, brother!
cotus (congress of the U.S.) interuptus or... potus scotus you get the picture.
Occupy Congress!
Agreed.
Best post I've seen a while! Thanks!
We need direct democracy in America where the people speak their will over the Internet to a responsive government.
Government better start listening to these posts, or else.
the entire federal govt needs to be replaced with politicians with no ties to special interests and you will then have a responsive govt
Maybe if we can monitor them and fire them if they fuck up..... They won't even trim their 50K retirement pay after putting the country in trillions of debt. They are completely out of touch and insane now.
if you follow my program, you can begin electing politicians with no connections to special interests and replacing the politicians that are tied to special interests big time
I will, thanks